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- [00:01]
Mo De Kill
This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, campaigns slow down, insights get buried and opportunities get missed. That's why Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales using automation, analytics and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with moments and fandoms that matter most. To learn more, check out Accenture.com Spotify
- [00:33]
Commercial Voice
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- [01:39]
Zach Lowe
Coming up. Didn't expect to be doing another Zach Low show this week. Should have known better. The NBA, following an absolutely bonkers day of LeBron announcing his departure from the Lakers and Kawhi Leonard returning to Toronto, decided how about we just one up that.
- [01:55]
Mo De Kill
How about that?
- [01:57]
Zach Lowe
The Lakers started the morning with a flurry of moves highlighted by a massive gamble on Walker Kessler that was pretty big. It's the Lakers. It's the glamour franchise in the league. Did they do it enough? Is this the whole team? They have no control over picks. Until when? What happened? Who got how much money? Quentin Grimes is involved. What's going on? Little blow in the day? Maybe you went to the grocery store, maybe got a workout in. Maybe you took a power nap, saw your family and then boom. The Jaylen Brown saga suddenly ends with with a shocking in division trade sending Jaylen Brown to Philadelphia for Paul freaking George and two first round picks and two second round picks. An absolutely earth shattering trade breaking up the most highly accomplished duo in the NBA probably over the last 10 years, Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum. Holy Smokes how bad busted have been inside Boston for that trade to be the trade that ends all this. After the Giannis flirtation and everything else, where was the rest of the league on this? Did they drop the ball or was this an actual proper evaluation of Jaylen Brown? This just happened. Mo Tequila is here. We're shell shocked and groggy. Team USA is playing Bosnia as we speak. The Zach Lowe show is coming up. I hope it makes sense and you enjoy it. Welcome to an emergency edition of the Zach Lowe Show. Jalen Brown, Celtics legend, Finals MVP. The superstar who carried the Jayson Tatumless Celtics to 56 wins in a two seed half of a tandem that has defined a decade and a very profitable one of Boston Celtics basketball has been traded rather suddenly and shockingly to in division rival recent playoff nemesis the Philadelphia 76ers for Paul George. Two first round picks, a 20, 28, one that is like half swapped, unprotected 20, 31, a couple of seconds and that is the end of the Jays era in Boston. Mo Tequila is here to help us make sense of this. And Mo, let's zoom out and start here. The Celtics in the past 10 days have had three different pathways to go down. Number one, do nothing. Keep Jaylen Brown and Jayson Tatum on your team. Keep every pick, every swap, every young player you got and go back to battle next season. Path two, trade for Giannis Antentokounmpo using Jaylen Brown. Probably three first round picks. Hugo Gonzalez. Yep, Hugo, maybe Baylor Sherman, maybe not. They. They did not do that. We're assuming, by the way, that that's a, that was a real opportunity and that the Bucs owners weren't just going to say, you know what, we actually want Miami's deal no matter what because we don't want to be in a Giannis situation in two years with Jalen Brown. But that path appears to have been available to the Celtics. And path three, the one they chose. Shopping Jalen Brown around the league, finding out that his trade value because of his salary more than anything else. Yeah, maybe some suspicion, perhaps somewhat analytics based that he is a hair overrated as a player. And if he is a hair overrated, he's still a goddamn good player. Finding little trade value and settling as I, as I warned just yesterday and then the day before, for a deal that was going to make Boston fans mad, a deal that was going to be centered around financially sort of resettling the future a little bit and maybe adding some draft equity, but one that would be unpalatable to Boston fans, they have chosen path 3mo to kill your initial reaction.
- [05:46]
Mo De Kill
I mean, shocked, like it was one of those things where that's all you can get for Jalen Brown as Paul George. On top of that, trading him to not just like a division rival, but your rival, it feels like for the most part, the team that just knocked you out of the playoffs after coming back down 3:1. And I think, you know, it's along those ways where it's like, wow, that's. It's. I was shocked at the price and I understand the value of Brown goes down a little bit. I don't feel like the market was fully there for him, but it's still sort of jarring to see because Paul George, generally, in my mind, I don't believe contracts are untradable, and this one proves it. But I felt like he was pretty untradable. I felt like it would have been really tough to get off that contract to receive something as good as Jalen Brown back.
- [06:38]
Zach Lowe
No, no, Spin it the other way, Mo. It would cost you a pick to get off Paul George. So, like, the way to look at this trade from the Celtics perspective is one of the picks is for taking Paul George, which means you really only traded Jaylen Brown for another first round pick, a single first round pick in a couple of seconds. And. And yes, the ability to employ Paul George on your team, who is still a very good player, but who plays, you know, the last two seasons half of each one and is aging fast and does nothing better than Jalen Brown other than shoot threes, which is a very valuable skill for the Celtics. So he's a good player, undeniably a step back for Boston. And yes, that's part of why it's shocking is that the Celtics went out after falling short of acquiring Giannis, which we will revisit, and said it's now untenable. We have to trade Jaylen Brown. It must be so toxic internally and must be just the atmosphere so negative and so broken that because ostensibly you would rather do nothing than do this. Yeah, the picks are nice. Again, one of them is for absorbing Paul George, who has only one fewer year left on his contract than Jalen Brown at a huge amount of money. It's about the one single year that's the only financial relief you're really getting here. Doing nothing was clearly not an option and the market was clearly not here, and so they landed here. It's absolutely stunning. And the Celtics are definitely worse next season. I don't think there's any question about that because Jalen Brown's better than Paul George and Paul George is much more injury prone. Jaylen Brown is super durable and we'll see how good they are and we'll talk about the east in a minute. So they, they've taken a step back to take a step forward and the only way this becomes a win for Boston or a non loss is all the onus is now on the next move. You passed up on Giannis. You and maybe part of the reason you passed up on Giannis was both the assets that were going to have to go out to beat Miami's offer to convince Jimmy Haslam to do it. Three firsts and another young player in Hugo Gonzalez plus Jalen Brown. All your optionality or a lot of it goes out the window. Then you resign Giannis and you're in a financial situation similar to what you're in now. Clearly I think they wanted some financial relief and they got it here. Losing a year of big money. But the, the, the short term step back is, is relevant. The blowback from the fans is relevant. And just the lack of any blue chip asset at all coming back is shocking. It speaks to the absence of any other suitor. Like I'm, I think there's a way where this doesn't look as. Here's the way this doesn't look as bad as it looks right now. The Celtics are a regular season wins machine. Just say they win 52 games again next year and they're in the top six and they're a successful playoff team. And then in a year Paul George is an expiring contract with Giannis was not going to be and Jalen Brown was not going to be. And you pile that on top of all these picks and you get the next guy to pair with Tatum and zoom back into championship contention. But there's a, there's a freaking canyon between there and here and they got to build a bridge over the canyon.
- [10:03]
Mo De Kill
I mean that's the hardest part. Sometimes finding that second guy to pair with your young star at this point is the hardest part. And we also just have to recognize the fact Jayson Tatum is still coming back from a torn Achilles. I know he came back incredibly early and you know, he had moments where he looked good, he had moments where he didn't. He didn't even finish the playoff series. Like there's, he's still coming back from a brutal injury. I knock on wood. I believe he's going to come back and be, be fine. But it's still a long road with all of those injuries and everything. So now you've kind of put yourself in a tough position. You put a lot of pressure on Tatum to be ready and perform. And I think he, I think he will be, but it's still challenging. But finding the next star after this is also going to be very hard. Right. Like, we have to remember how they got these guys. It was because they turned Paul Pierce, Kevin Garnett, the whole trade to Brooklyn to get all those draft picks and that's how they ended up with these guys and creating that. It was almost kind of a, not a stroke of luck, but it was a stroke of genius on Angel's part to make this move. But it cost them a lot and now you have to figure out how you're going to do that again. And it's hard to kind of predict what's going on in the, what the NBA is going to look like a year or two from now in the picture. And assuming that, you know, Paul George can rehab his, his value in the next season. It gets really interesting and challenging for Boston in this regard where it's like, what do you do next? Is going to be everything. And I do like that they have the picks. They have, they have their picks. Obviously they didn't send out. You know, does this mean they're going to try to make another run at Trey Murphy or Herb Jones or whoever and try to shore up their, their, their wings and things like that. It just, I don't know where they go from here though, Zach. Like, I'm, I'm a little bit still sort of shell shocked. Like, I'll be honest, I'm getting ready to move. I was packing up the car when I saw the trade and I go like, well, not doing anything today. This is the rest of my day and I think that's where we're at. And I'm just looking at it, looking at the numbers and everything. I don't know what's going to happen with Boston because I'm very concerned about them for next season and then how they build going forward.
- [12:23]
Zach Lowe
So the Giannis path is clearly the best of the three paths for immediate short term contention for your title window for the next two years. That's the one. Because Portis, you get Portis and he's a useful bench player. You would still have the mid level exception. Perhaps you would not use it on Mitchell Robinson, which is a great signing for Boston, but you could use it on a representative center that fits well with Giannis. So that chip is still there and you lose Hugo I bet they could have hung on to Scheireman and so your depth is a little worse, but not that much worse. Now short term, that's short term. Long term you get expensive and a little older real fast. Throw that path to the side. The do nothing path I think is clearly better than what they just did because the team would be better in the short term. And you could, you could have traded Jalen Brown for this in four months, in six months, in eight months. I don't know why there was a rush to take this deal because even if you think you have to trade them at some point, this isn't enough I don't think. And you could have opened it up to a team spirals a little bit at the beginning of the season and and gives you a better return with more optionality. But you have to ask yourself like if this was the best they could do. Here's just the list of teams that I think either flirted with it and and didn't go there or just didn't go there at all. Charlotte, I don't think went in at all. Detroit, despite the jail endurance standoff that I think is full of sound and fury signifying nothing didn't go there at all. Cleveland did not like I'm sure there was a hey, Evan Mobley. Yes. No. It was a quick no and that was it. Houston, to my knowledge just was not in period. Brooklyn, I think there was a little flirtation with the Michael Porter Jr. Package that I had mentioned on previous podcasts and it died. Toronto, no. Clippers?
- [14:16]
Mo De Kill
No.
- [14:17]
Zach Lowe
Denver. I think it's just too seismic a move. Portland, I'm not convinced was ever really that in I'm sure there were talks. I'm sure there were. I'm guessing there were talks and conversation. I don't think they were really that in Atlanta appears to just be doing other stuff and it didn't have it in mind. New Orleans, I'm not sure ever really picked up the phone on anything. I'm not entirely sure like there was I don't think I think the league is underrating Jalen Brown a little bit for sure at large. I think the salary is just really prohibitive and it's hard to trade guys making this amount of money who aren't clear top five to eight players in the NBA and I don't think Jalen Brown is the top five day player in the NBA. He's still awesome and this return is still I think a pretty crushing disappointment for Boston. And they just again the only spin is you kept your depth. You basically like net plus five first round picks. If you consider it would have been minus three to get Giannis and now it's plus two to trade Jalen Brown for Paul George. You better make something out of those and make it something out of them in the next 18 months or else this window is going to close too. I'm just, I'm absolutely shocked. I'm shocked. And like, Paul George is good. It, this is 10 years after he was a prime trade candidate for the Celtics involving Jalen Brown. Like, I, I don't know what it, like, I think this is still going to be a good team, but this is an undeniable step back. The return is disappointing and it just, I just don't understand why they had to make this trade. I think you could make an argument, Mo, you could probably convince me that this is better in the long term than just going to get Giannis at all costs. I, I, I would have, I actually, I would have a hard time quite getting there because Giannis is so good, but he's been injury prone too. I just feel like this is the worst, like, the worst outcome possible of all of these paths.
- [16:15]
Mo De Kill
This is the worst possible outcome and, and like, I get it if people want to try to convince us of the long term, but this needed to be a win now move. Really.
- [16:25]
Zach Lowe
Like, you know, this is what I've been warning about for five podcasts is like, this move is going to come and it's, it's going to be a move that is not going to satisfy anybody who, it's going to be a step back now and it better be good later or it's going to be unpalatable to Celtics fans. And it's, it just is. That's all there was.
- [16:40]
Mo De Kill
And the whole like, for me, my belief of the, I didn't think there was an ability to mend fences. Like, I didn't, I feel clearly the
- [16:48]
Zach Lowe
fence got lit on fire. Like to take it away in a tornado. It's gone. There's a fence.
- [16:53]
Mo De Kill
Well, I mean like once, I feel like once they crossed the Rubicon, where, where they made the official offer with Jalen Brown, you know, in the offer for, for the Bucks, I think that became, that, that's become an untenable situation. And even if he came back, I think eventually it slowly would have eaten away at that locker room one way or another, you know, bad game from this guy or whatnot and things, it would have just manifested itself in different ways and would have eventually led to a problem But I still would have kept him if I knew this was my return.
- [17:24]
Zach Lowe
Like, it's, it's.
- [17:25]
Mo De Kill
I still would have found a way, you know, in that way. Okay, I have at least till the next trade deadline to figure this out. And somebody at the next trade line is going to be desperate to try to make the big move. I understand. Moving a contract that big is incredibly difficult. It's difficult in the regular season. It's difficult as we're seeing now, even in the off season. I mean, ultimately the biggest winner besides Philly on this is the second apron, right? Like the cap and the way the CBA is set up, it's crushed the Celtics at this point where if they had to kind of also make this move to create financial flexibility. Not next, not this year, not. I mean, not this coming season and not the season after that, but later. And we've talked about the financial flexibilities and the things that they're going to have to do in the maneuvers they have to make, but this is just a brutal blow, I think, for Boston in the short term. And I think it sucks because this was a team that you felt, hey, like if everything was going right, we're going to be contenders. And now you just look at it going, this team's not a contender next season. They got significantly older. When you look at Paul George for Jalen Brown and age, add Mike Connolly signing with them. I love the Mitchell Robinson signing, although I do worry also about his availability. Like there's a there. There are going to be challenges within this roster for next season just in terms of who's available on a night to night basis.
- [18:45]
Zach Lowe
I think the only real way to read all of this taken together is that they did not have an appetite enough of one to take on Giannis's salary for better or worse. And what they really wanted was a little bit of financial breathing room and flexibility down the line and as little of a short term hit as possible. And I'm not sure they accomplished that at all. So here's where we are now with the Celtics starting five. Let's just. I mean, who knows, right? But let's just map it out. Peyton Pritchard, Derek White. I know Peyton Pritchard went back to a bench role this year. Just, just go with me. Peyton Pritchard, Derrick White, Jason Tatum, Paul George, Mitchell Robinson. It's a good lineup off the bench. We still have Hugo Shireman, Houser Walsh. Mike Conley's here. Kate is going to be here. Ron Harper Jr. Is here. Luca Garza's here they got all their depth and they got a bunch of picks. I bet they'll win a fair number of regular season games. It's tempting to say that. You know, this was a 2 seed last year with Jalen Brown and without Jayson Tatum. Now it's Jason Tatum and no Jalen Brown, but Paul George in his place and a much better starting center. You know, you mentioned that they're not contenders now. I think getting exposed the way they did in the playoffs by Philly broke the Celtics and then like ran off with the wreckage basically. And I think the Celtics looked in the mirror and said, okay, we maybe are at least somewhat the version of ourselves that the skeptics saw before last season. Like just not, not a, a good team, but not a great team. Maybe that 56 wins was fool's gold. Let's be realistic about ourselves and take a step back a little bit. But I can't believe that this was necessarily the step back. So that'll be a good team. Here's the thing about the Eastern Conference Right now there are eight teams, at least eight who if you ask them right now, they would say, oh, we're a top six team. Eight is greater than six mo.
- [20:38]
Mo De Kill
Yes.
- [20:39]
Zach Lowe
So if you want to like ink if you're a Celtics optimist and again, I think this team's going to win a lot of regular season games and you want to say, oh, we're still going to be a top six team here. Detroit, New York, Cleveland, Boston, Miami, Toronto, Philadelphia now has to be in the conversation in Indiana. Remember Indiana, the team that was within a whisker of the championship, that's eight and we haven't even, you know, Toronto just got Kawhi, Miami just got Giannis.
- [21:08]
Mo De Kill
They're.
- [21:09]
Zach Lowe
They're in the eight I mentioned. We haven't even mentioned Orlando, who probably is like, hey, what are we, we can be a top 16. Didn't get to Atlanta and then there's a bit of a drop off. But like it's going to be hard to be a top six team in the east next year. For Boston, it's possible. It might even be likely. I'm curious to see what the over under is, but it's not, it's not going to be easy. And I just can't believe Paul George is where this landed. I really like and I love, I've loved Paul George's career. I love him as a player. But this is 36 year old Paul George has played 78 games. I think in the last two seasons
- [21:43]
Mo De Kill
that's the thing that's most amazing. It's, you know, it. We should have known better. It seems like it's always a team that comes out of nowhere in these types of situations and that's sort of what happened. But I just would have never fathomed also just Boston making the trade with Philly and I know rivals and things like that, and we kind of get lost with that. But it just seems weird to me that that's where they went and now they're going to see him four times next season. They're going to see Jaylen Brown four times next year. I'm calling my shot now. This is the Christmas Day game, Jaylen Brown's first return to Boston.
- [22:21]
Zach Lowe
How about, how about this? He. He's like five days removed from saying all of this stuff is turning me into a monster. This, this is a whole different level of stuff. This is your own team dealing you to the team that just eliminated you in the playoffs. Arguably their second most storied rival behind the Lakers for Paul George, who was good last year but also was suspended for a huge amount of time and has been just like a giant disappointment in Philadelphia and a couple of picks. If Jalen Brown was becoming a monster before this deal, he's becoming like Godzilla plus King Kong plus Mothra right now. And you know he's coming for blood the first time they play. He is going to try to dunk on someone within it. And this is one of the most violent dunkers in the league already. That is going to be absolute must. CTV let's take a quick break and talk a little bit more about the other angles of this evening. Buyer's remorse. Buy a new car.
- [23:26]
Mo De Kill
I'll be moving in. Let's get started.
- [23:29]
Commercial Voice
Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana.
- [23:33]
Mo De Kill
You what?
- [23:33]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, Great price.
- [23:34]
Commercial Voice
I even have seven days to love
- [23:36]
Zach Lowe
it or return it. So there's no, no, no buyer's remorse.
- [23:39]
Commercial Voice
More like buyers rejoice.
- [23:42]
Zach Lowe
I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations.
- [23:45]
Mo De Kill
I mean it.
- [23:46]
Commercial Voice
Buyers rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven day return policy@carvana.com this
- [23:52]
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- [24:25]
Zach Lowe
Would you rather have just gone all in for Giannis even if it took three first round picks and Hugo? Is that where we've ended up here?
- [24:31]
Mo De Kill
MO I kind of think that's where they, they would have been better off in, in the long run. I think there would have been an appetite maybe to bring you be able to hopefully get some vet minimum guys or whatnot and things, but I think that's where I probably would have gone with it. You wouldn't have spent, you know, so much to get Mitchell Robinson. You would have been able to reallocate that. You were talking about, you know, different center that would fit the need. But I think that's kind of where I would have gone. And my only thing too, Zach, is like, if you were going to enter the Honest sweepstakes, you needed to enter with the attitude of we're going to try to win it. I think in essence, and we might be, and you said it in the beginning, you might be right. Haslam might have looked at it and said, no, I want the Miami package again. We don't want to be down this road two years from now with Jaylen Brown. They still might have lost in that sense. But if you were going to make the offer, you kind of had to go all go in to make the offer to try to actually beat Miami's offer instead of just saying, no, this is our offer and that's it and we're not willing to give up anything else. And if that was the case, then they me needed to immediately fly to wherever Jaylen Brown was and immediately start working on building the fence because the fence was gone and you had to rebuild the fence then at that point. And I think, I still think it would have been maybe a little bit difficult, but you needed to start right of the way and you needed to kill any possible rumor after that of you're going to actually trade. You're, you're, you're going to start shopping him now.
- [25:59]
Zach Lowe
By the way, apologies to the Charlotte Hornets, who I forgot when I was listing all the east teams that are chasing a top six spot next season because my brain is addled and we're doing this like pretty instantly. I mentioned the first eight and then I said Orlando, Atlanta, Charlotte should be right in there too. Like that's 11 teams chasing six top six seeds and the 10 playing spots like the east is. And then you have the drop off to Milwaukee, Chicago, Brooklyn, Washington, who the hell knows what was. Washington is going to be like, hell, that's going to be a different. Let's talk a little bit about Philly. I. I think I would actually rather have done nothing than the other two. I think nothing is a perfectly fine thing for the Celtics to have done. This is. This is not like. If you're like, we're selling high on Jaylen Brown after a career year and given his salary and all the. The twitch stuff, if that annoys you. This is not selling high. I mean, this is selling. This is just selling. It's not selling high. It's just selling.
- [26:53]
Mo De Kill
Can I ask you a question? When you say you'd rather done nothing, like not enter the honest sweepstakes at all? Because that would have been my choice if that was the case.
- [27:01]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, because you know it's going to get out and you know that there's going to be ramifications. No, I think you have to enter it and. And maybe. Maybe I'd have to really think harder if I think winning it is. I think winning it is maybe better than this. But. But it. I think that path is more thorny, risky and limiting in the medium term future than maybe fans who are just giddy when they see a superstar's name might realize. Speaking of superstars, Philadelphia, look, I mean, they have to be taken seriously now. Here's their starting five. Maxi Edgecomb, Jalen Brown, Dean Wade, baby. Dean Wade and Joel Embiid. And the bench is. It needs to be filled out. They signed Huck 40 as a backup five. They have Bona. They have Justin Edwards, they have LeBaron Filon, who. Who they just drafted Dale and Terry is still here. I'm probably forgetting someone. Let me look at their depth chart. Jabari Walker, Don Barlow, those guys are still here. The bench needs to be filled out a little bit. They have not.
- [28:04]
Mo De Kill
They.
- [28:05]
Zach Lowe
I believe they have the biannual exceptions still left in minimums. They use the mid level, I think on Dean Wade, most of it. So, yeah, I think Tony Jones just reported at the Athletic that they will be in Pursuit of Juan LeBron James. Should be noted that Mike Gansey, the former Cavaliers gm, not only just pulled Dean Wade out of Cleveland, but is very familiar with LeBron James and has a relationship with him. Obviously. I don't know how they get him. I don't know what the money is. I don't know the mechanics. If you can add LeBron James to that group and start him over Dean Wade and put Dean Wade to the bench, that becomes a real team. I just. Here's the thing that's just unending. Joel Embiid is never going to be healthy for a full season and probably not for a full playoff run. It happened again this year and I just think as good as Maxi and Brown and Edgecomb are together, let's park LeBron to the side and assume he goes somewhere else because the, you know, the field has a better chance than the Sixers. It's just like it amounts to the same thing it amounted to this year, which is you might get 10 days in the playoffs of hey, this is the team we envisioned. Holy shit. It's good. We just knocked out a two seed and then it all goes to hell again. And I admire them for taking a shot just literally. Yesterday I joked about how I don't think about the Sixers that much as an off season team because I just think they're in Embiid and Paul George jail. Well, they just escaped Paul George jail. And Jalen Brown's contract runs the exact same length as Joel Embiid's contract. It's a natural reset timetable. I like them going for it. I just, I have a heart. It's unimaginable to me that Embiid will be healthy enough for them to make a real legit title run at any time. But I mean if the cost is one extra year of salary and seven years younger and way better in the NBA player hierarchy and two picks, you lose some optionality. You still have some Clippers draft that sets to backstop it. I think it's like it's, it's beyond a no brainer. It's a. Mike Gansey can't even fucking believe that this trade is actually being executed and called into the league office.
- [30:06]
Mo De Kill
Yeah, I think it's a massive win for them. I think this is one of those things where you look at where you're at. You got everything you said. You got significantly younger, you got the best player in the trade as well in the process. I think when you look at the way they're set up to, you just got better defensively. And that's not just naturally Paul, Paul George isn't the defender that Brown is. And what Brown just did this whole, this whole past season was amazing. And now you add that with Tyrese Maxey taking the leap. Like the thing about the Sixers that was so beautiful this season was they made the transition from an Embiid team to a Tyrese Maxi team and now really, I look at them as Maxi Brown Edgecomb in any however order. And then Embiid is what you get from him is the cherry on top. It does hurt them with their depth, their size. They got to start figuring out all that as they go through. But that's a great starting point.
- [31:03]
Zach Lowe
It doesn't even hurt their depth. They traded one player for one player.
- [31:07]
Mo De Kill
The lack of depth they had anyways. But just like that's a great starting point to be at, right? I just talked about how hard it is for Boston to find the next guy. They just found their guy off of a contract that most of us thought was untradeable.
- [31:23]
Zach Lowe
By the way, we mentioned Mitchell Robinson. Great signing for the Celtics. Regardless, hurt hurts the Knicks. And the east is a little bit of a cluster right now with teams getting better, getting, getting worse, doing weird things, doing crazy things. The Knicks still sit at the top, but that's a real hole that they're going to have to fill somehow in a real weapon that they just like Mitchell Robinson was a hugely valuable part of their team and just did stuff that is really hard to find, propped up their offense all by himself with his offensive rebounding and was became a really great defensive center in the paint. And it hurts them. Even if it's only 12, 13 minutes a game or when Cat's in foul trouble 20 minutes a game, it hurts them. They're going have to figure it out. But now he's on the Celtics. Look for the Sixers, just home run, no notes.
- [32:13]
Mo De Kill
I don't know.
- [32:13]
Zach Lowe
Is there anything else we didn't hit on this trade? I mean, this is intended to be like a short podcast and I feel like we've hit pretty much anything except, like, I just can't believe. I just feel like the Celtics panicked and acted too fast and I just can't believe no one else in the league stepped up to try to beat this. And I get the concerns about Jalen Brown's salary. I get the general perception around the league that he's a little bit overrated. I get it. I just can't believe this is the trade. I remain in shock even as I understand again, the financial flexibility and trade flexibility that Boston has gained here and the long game that they're playing and how this could look very different in 24 months than it looks today. I get all of that. I still am just sitting here in disbelief that this is the trade.
- [32:56]
Mo De Kill
The other thing too, for me Just kind of my. Like, why couldn't they just take in a breath and doesn't even. They could have made this trade July 30, you know, or whatnot. Like that's, that's more kind of. If you didn't like the offers you were coming in, just wait a little bit, let free agency play out. Somebody's going to strike out. Somebody's going to want to do something. You know, I think they didn't even have to carry this into next season, but they could have carried this further into free agency and just waited it out a little bit. I don't know what the upside was for making this trade on July 1st. And I think that's kind of my, my big question. Why not just take a break? Couldn't have made it at the end of the month. Like just wait this thing out and see where you're at. Nobody was trading for Paul George. You weren't gonna have to worry about losing, you know, Philly as an option in that scenario. I think that that might have been something maybe a little bit more prudent. I do think they panicked a bit and reacted a little bit too quickly.
- [33:53]
Zach Lowe
Okay this. We have a holiday weekend coming up. Have next week to. To settle in and do more stuff. So I don't want to do the full thing now. I just want to do a few minutes on. The other major thing that happened today is that before lunch on east coast time, the Los Angeles Lakers had a completely brand new team highlighted by a massive sign and trade for Utah for Walker Kessler, who is making four years, $130 million total, 32 and change a year. And in exchange, Utah got two unprotected Lakers first round picks and a couple of swaps. And the Lakers have, I think, no control, minus one swap of any first round draft asset through 2033. They then filled out the roster with Colin Sexton on. Let me bring it all up so I get it exactly right. Two years 19 mamu three, four years of the player option, about 12 and a half a year. Quentin Grimes, four years 60. And obviously Austin Reaves is brought back. Mo, you're. Well, you know what, I'll go first. And again we'll do the full Lakers autopsy next week. Here is my initial reaction to these moves. They look like a team that has next to no chance to beat the Thunder and the spurs in a playoff series in the next two to three years and almost no outs at all to change their team other than maybe trading Austin Reaves in a year or two when this doesn't work. I'm not like, I don't think the moves are like horrendously bad. The Lakers were trapped in a situation of use it or lose it, cap space and a superstar who is a year away from potentially, you know, trying to exert a lot of pressure or able to exert even more pressure. And they needed a center. This is an unbelievable reach for Walker Kessler, who I think is good, but is for this amount of money being paid like a proven all star center, not a proven all star center. I think he will look very good with Luca. His rim defense is legit. He's got to improve as a screen setter and a rim runner. But I think there's something there. The rest of it is like, Sexton's an interesting bench guy, Grimes is an interesting bench guy. Like, I don't even know who the other two starters on the team are other than Reeves, Luca and Kessler. And then it's like the bench or the combination of the fourth and fifth starter and the bench is like Sexton. Grimes is Mamu, the starting power forward, the guy who could barely play in the, in the first round of the playoffs. Jared Vanderbilt is still here. Ayton is here as a backup center. Carr, they just drafted like they'll be good because Luca is that good and Reeves is a really good second banana and I think Kessler will fit well. I'm not saying the Lakers are going to be bad, they're going to be good. I just look at them like, I don't know how that is supposed to compete for like a Western Conference championship now in two years, in three years, like Laravia is still here somewhere. Maybe he's one of the starters
- [36:48]
Mo De Kill
and
- [36:49]
Zach Lowe
just know to have that be the roster and be completely tapped out of cap space and draft picks going forward is like a little bit. I was taken aback. Maybe I'm just grossly underestimating the team, but that's my reaction.
- [37:04]
Mo De Kill
It's a little bit nerve wracking when you, when we talk about the no outs, you know they don't control any of their draft picks for the next seven years. Right? Like it's. Or it's something like that. Or they can't make any trades, trade any draft picks for the next seven years is. You're right about the no outs situation. I'm a little bit higher on it though, just because I think this is a team that makes more sense around Luca.
- [37:29]
Zach Lowe
No question. There's no question about that.
- [37:31]
Mo De Kill
And in losing LeBron, I think they had to kind of retool everything and, and figure out how this works. I, I'm with you in that. I don't think they, they have a chance now to beat the Thunder or the spurs or on that level in that regard. I just also don't know what's out there that would have been. I think in the long run, I think we'll see a situation where Reeves goes out to bring somebody else in, in the, in the long run. But I think that's two or three years down the road. I just think this is a team that makes more sense though, with the pieces. I like Mamu, I know struggled in the playoffs and whatnot, but I think the ability to spread the floor, I think he starts at the power forward area. You know, Kessler, he barely played last season, but the year before showed a little more three point shooting in terms of averaging about one and a half threes a game and things like that. But obviously having the rim rolling and then the rim protection from him goes a long way. I do worry about their perimeter defense still. I still think that's going to be a large concern because there isn't anybody. Yeah, there isn't anybody. I think that's where I'm kind of a little bit worried. But I think for the situ, for what was available to them, I think this was the move they had to make. And I think part of it too was selling Luka on the vision of, like, this is the plan, this is what we're going with. I also trust Mark Walters, who, you know, owns the Dodgers. He's competitive as hell. Is going to spend to put a winner out there. I know it's different in Major League Baseball versus the NBA and the, the, the restrictions the second apron brings and the, everything that comes with it, but I think they're better off now than where they were, you know, a week ago or once they found out LeBron's not going to be there, they at least have an understanding of, this is our team, this is the vision, this is how we move forward now. Let's just see if they can execute in some way.
- [39:25]
Zach Lowe
I mean, they were a pretty goddamn good team last year when they had LeBron, Reaves and Luka. And look, I mean, we could sit here and say, whose choice really Is it that LeBron is not a Laker now? Is it LeBron's choice? Is it the Lakers choice? They don't appear to have really made him an offer. What would the offer have had to have been financially to convince them to come back and how much would that have chipped away at their flexibility? So it's hard to sort of envision what that roster is versus what this roster is. But it's not like they were struggling with LeBron. This is going to be a good team. It does fit better around Luka. And to your point, what you're essentially asking me is what are the other paths, right? Like, what else could they have done? Assuming that Luka kind of had them over a barrel, which he does. And that's a fair point. What I would respond to is I think you just go shorter on the deals for Grimes and Mamu and the Kessler one. I don't know. I'd have to really go back and try to think of a team making this big of a bet on a player who has proven so little in. In like, big scope terms in the NBA. There's not a huge sample of Walker Kessler playing really well. I mean, he's good. He was a Rookie of the year candidate and all that. He's good. He's clearly good. There's just a huge sample of him playing really well in games that actually matter for a team that's trying to win, let alone good enough to make 32 and a half million dollars a year. Like, how many centers are making more than Walker Kessler right now? It's a really short list. And. And the two unprotected picks, which could be, you know, something goes haywire with Luka, all of a sudden, Utah, I think that's a. I think Utah made out like a bandit in that trade. They have to figure out the center position. They've got Nurkic back, they've got Jackson Hayes back, but I think they can now kind of play a little bit, straddling two timelines pretty effectively. Pretty good now, Pretty good set up for later for the next move. Opens up maybe a starting spot, maybe not. We'll see what happens with Ace Bailey if he still comes off the bench and all that. But I just. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to spend the weekend watching Walker Kessler film, specifically RIM running film, refresh my memory, look at some numbers. Going to look a little bit more about how the rotation could shake out with Grimes and Sexton and who plays what role and sort of try to get a little bit better of what the vision is. But on its face, I just think given what they gave up, this is not a good enough team. But that's. I will. I reserve the right to change my mind mo any final Thoughts?
- [42:05]
Mo De Kill
No, I just want to echo the Utah did make out like a bandit. They didn't want to pay Walker Kessler that much money, obviously. And then they come back with these picks and now they have a vault ready to go when they want to go, when they figure out what the team is and when they, when they see their whole team as a, you know, on the floor next season and figure out where the holes are, they have the ammunition to go build up and go, you know, go get the guys they want. I think it's going to be pretty interesting to see for Utah, like they did come out really great on this. I'm, I'm just excited to see what this looks like. And I think also the other element is Luke is one of those point guards that's going to make your, your center look better than he actually is as well.
- [42:45]
Zach Lowe
Right. And he's an, he's an amazing. Walker Kessler is one of the three or four best offensive rebounders in the NBA and that's another massively important skill for all this. Sort of like we could call them Kobe assists if you want. Like Luka gets in the lane on the pick and roll, misses Austin reads and you're going to miss some of those twos. But, but the roller is going to be open to put him back in and he's real good at that and his rim defense is legitimately special. So I get the bet. It's just a huge, huge, huge bet. Okay, Mo, this time I mean it. You're not hearing from me again until the holiday weekend is over. Thank you to Mo De Kill for scrambling amid a move to come on the podcast. Thank you, bud. You could always catch him on a double dribble podcast on Twitch, on Bleacher Report on the Offsides network. All that. Thank you to Mo, thank you to Jonathan, Mike and Billy on production for scrambling late today and thank you all for listening to and or watching the Zach Lowe Show. I mean it. We will be back after the holiday weekend. NBA chill the F out. Jalen Brown straighted the Lakers did some stuff. Thanks everybody. 21 or over and president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over and President D.C. kentucky, Oyoma gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or is it mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland? Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY Y in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.