The Lowe Post (The Zach Lowe Show)

Episode: Finding Potential Giannis Trades With Kirk Goldsberry. Plus, Sean Fennessey Joins for Mets Corner.
Date: December 4, 2025
Host: Zach Lowe
Guests: Kirk Goldsberry, Sean Fennessey

Overview

This jam-packed episode sees Zach Lowe and ESPN’s Kirk Goldsberry break down the latest drama surrounding Giannis Antetokounmpo, renewed Bucks trade buzz, and the state of the NBA’s top teams with a focus on daring hypothetical trades. Zach and Kirk put teams like the Hawks, Knicks, Cavs, Spurs, Rockets, and more through the Giannis sweepstakes and debate what Milwaukee should want and do if forced into a rebuild. The Thunder’s juggernaut status, the Clippers’ endless soap opera, and Chris Paul’s unceremonious exit also get analyzed, before Sean Fennessey joins for a deep Mets/Baseball/Nicknames/Movies segment.

Main Theme

What should the Milwaukee Bucks do if Giannis Antetokounmpo becomes available for trade, and which NBA teams could—and should—enter the bidding war?
The episode dives deep into how Milwaukee’s fortunes, Giannis’s priorities, and the league’s shifting power structure may produce a blockbuster trade, while also surveying the state of the Association’s elite and upstart teams.

Key Discussion Points

1. Has Anything Changed with Giannis Since Summer? ([03:15]–[09:47])

• Team Context: Bucks are struggling (“the Bucks suck, bro”—Kirk, [06:56]) and Giannis’s injury may escalate trade urgency.
• Giannis’s Motivation: He cares deeply about contending for championships; trust is eroding if the Bucks can’t deliver.
• Milwaukee’s Predicament: The team lacks control of their own picks—to tank is risky, but a half-rebuild may be futile without Giannis.

“The bottom line is the Bucks do not look like they're ready to make noise in the East. … Most important thing to [Giannis] is competing for championships.”
—Kirk ([06:56])

2. Would an In-Season Giannis Trade Make More Sense Than Waiting? ([09:05]–[11:26])

• League Landscape: The East feels “open,” Thunder dominance adds urgency, and some execs think now is better than the offseason for a trade.
• Potential Bidders: Teams like Houston or San Antonio must decide: “Do we take our shot at OKC now, or after they inevitably have to pay the piper on all this draft capital?”

3. Potential Giannis Trades: Deep-Dive on Destinations ([16:29]–[51:11])

Eastern Conference

• Atlanta Hawks:
  • Zach’s No. 1 Fit: Because Milwaukee could reclaim its own picks, and trade talks could involve Trae Young and assets (not Jalen Johnson).
  • Hawks' Dilemma: If they help Milwaukee, their own future draft assets could decline—do they risk it?
  • “If I'm them, I'm not trading Jalen Johnson.” —Zach ([20:10])
• New York Knicks:
  • Possible only if Giannis picks them “Anthony Davis-style,” but the Knicks’ trade packages (RJ Barrett/OG Anunoby/Mitch Robinson) don’t excite for a full rebuild.
  • Power Dynamics: “The Knicks are only favorites if Giannis forces it.” —Kirk ([22:11])
• Cleveland Cavaliers:
  • Mobley-centric deal more plausible now; Garland/Allen less attractive; apron rules complicate it, but Mobley has appeal.
  • “Mobley as centerpiece is much more interesting now…we look a little bit broken.” —Zach ([25:31])
• Miami Heat:
  • “Always doing due diligence”—the Heat’s asset pool hobbled by Terry Rozier uncertainty, only two firsts to offer, and Tyler Herro as main carrot. A deal would require giving up standout prospect Khaleel Ware, which is “wear or bust.” —Zach ([30:08])
• Other East (Mentions Only): Toronto (lots of salary but no enticing picks), Chicago (would love to bet against their picks), Detroit (Jalen Duren as centerpiece), Brooklyn (likes NYC but lacks an established “win now” co-star).

Western Conference

• San Antonio Spurs:
  • Wemby + Giannis “Death Star”? But cost would be huge—one of Castle or Harper plus picks, and trading youth is against the Spurs way.
  • “It would be a departure … we don’t do this. We build through the draft.” —Kirk ([34:37])
• Houston Rockets:
  • Have the picks, but deal only likely if Sengun or Amen Thompson are involved—would they risk upsetting a budding juggernaut?
  • “Do they want to upset the apple cart?” —Kirk ([44:10])
• Thunder, Mavs, Other West:
  • Thunder are untouchable, but discussed as the gold standard.
  • League-wide, if Giannis moves West, the imbalance becomes more extreme.

4. Thunder Deep-Dive: They’re a Juggernaut ([57:58]–[71:17])

• Their Draft Pick Hoard: Clippers downside is Thunder upside; “Pentagram of Hell” teams (Clippers, Mavs, Pelicans, Kings, Grizzlies) look bleak in contrast.
• Dominance in Numbers: 21-1 record, absurd net rating, #1 defense, deep without key players, “defense goes on runs”—they’re optimized for this new NBA.
• Half-Court Offense: Last year’s weakness is mitigated by free throw differential, Isaiah Joe, AJ Mitchell, and emerging rotation depth.
• When to Challenge Them?: Spurs, Rockets, others have to gamble on when to make their shot (“It’s never as much of a wrap as it looks like.” —Zach, [71:41])

5. Chris Paul & the Clippers Melodrama ([52:22]–[57:58])

• CP3’s Send-Off: Sent home by the Clippers, possibly due to grating on the club with his “tough love.”
  • “You have these people in your life…even when they’re right, you just sometimes don’t want to hear it. That’s the CP3 thing.” —Zach ([53:13])
  • “Old injured dudes and a lot of leeway.” —Kirk ([54:34])
• Clippers as cautionary tale: Trading picks for aging stars hasn’t panned out, compared to OKC’s homegrown model.

6. All-Star Game Ballot Talk/Format ([75:01]–[82:35])

• New rules: 12 East, 12 West, no positions, but must have 16 US and 8 international players minimum. Silver fills if below threshold.
• Team by team selections: Both hosts offer their provisional All-Star picks and lament how loaded the "World" side is versus the US.
• “This is going to hurt. …Americans are going to have a tough time.” —Kirk ([80:26])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Bucks' dire straits:
  “The Bucks suck, bro. The Bucks do not look like they're ready to make noise in the East.”
  —Kirk Goldsberry ([06:56])

• On urgency vs. patience for buyers:
  “Do we take our shot at Oklahoma City now ... or wait till they have to make roster sacrifices?”
  —Zach Lowe ([11:26])

• On Thunder’s mastery of foul science:
  “They figured out the science of fouling almost like the Spurs figured out the science of the corner three.”
  —Kirk ([62:12])

• On Giannis trade packages:
  “I think the easiest solution…is to get their own picks back.”
  —Zach ([16:44])

• On Knicks as frontrunner only if Giannis demands:
  “That’s how I'm reading the situation. …The Knicks aren't your best trade partner here.”
  —Kirk ([22:11], [22:23])

• On the Thunder’s inevitability:
  “Sure, they're going to be awesome for a long time. ... It looks like a rap. It’s never as much of a rap as you think.”
  —Zach ([71:41])

• On Chris Paul’s sendoff:
  “You have these people in your life ... you just sometimes don’t want to hear it. ... That’s the CP3 thing.”
  —Zach ([53:13])

• On All-Star selection headaches:
  “This is going to hurt. ... Americans are going to have a tough time.”
  —Kirk ([80:26])

Important Timestamps

• [03:15] — Main Giannis conversation begins.
• [16:29] — Team-by-team Giannis trade fits: Hawks, Knicks, Cavs, Heat.
• [31:45] — West teams: Spurs, Rockets (and deep philosophical Spurs talk).
• [52:22] — Chris Paul and Clippers exit saga.
• [57:58] — Thunder dominance breakdown.
• [75:01] — All-Star ballot, rule changes, and picks.

Mets Corner with Sean Fennessey ([83:55]–[114:38])

Mets Offseason Moves

• Devin Williams trade, bullpen fortification, hope for Edwin Diaz’s return.
• Discussion of the Nimmo-Semien swap, Stearns’s approach, and what it signals about the youth movement vs. winning now.
• Outfield needs: Names like Kyle Tucker and Cody Bellinger floated.
• Chemistry & friction:
  • Lindor/Soto reportedly don’t get along, Lindor/McNeil have history (“the raccoon incident”), but not necessarily a crisis.
  • “Happy teams tend to do better. Or do good teams tend to be happy?” —Fennessey ([101:06])
• Fan/family perspective: Zach relays his daughter’s concern about Lindor possibly being traded.

Baseball banter:

• MLB statistical lingo gets credit: “meltdowns,” “whiff rate.”

Movies sidebar:

• Brief, thoughtful take on the Quentin Tarantino/Paul Dano “There Will Be Blood” controversy: “I find that shocking … You need someone opposite Day-Lewis who you do hate…” —Fennessey ([111:37])

Tone & Style

Zach and Kirk keep things conversational, sly, and irreverent (“pentagram of hell,” “meltdowns”), but never lose analytic rigor, giving listeners both accessible summaries and deep-cut strategy debates. The episode is peppered with casual asides, sharp humor, and genuine sports nerddom—plus a warm, fan-centric flavor in the Mets and movies segments.

For Those Who Haven’t Listened

This episode provides a panoramic yet detailed look at one of the league’s biggest storylines—what to do if an aging champion (the Bucks) faces losing its superstar (Giannis). Zach and Kirk walk listeners through every possible scenario: what makes a trade package truly valuable for a small-market team, the psychological and strategic considerations for the teams chasing the Thunder, and the huge, looming “where does the league go from here?” questions Giannis’s hypothetical availability triggers.

The show effortlessly pivots from deep analytics and CBA considerations to league anecdotes, franchise pathologies, and the quirks of trades, leadership, and locker room chemistry, while also never skimping on laughs or on-the-nose insights.