Five Big Questions With Richard Jefferson!

Summary

The Zach Lowe Show – "Five Big Questions With Richard Jefferson!"

Date: January 12, 2026
Host: Zach Lowe (The Ringer)
Guests: Richard Jefferson, Mo Dakhil, Keonte George

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Episode Overview

In this episode of The Zach Lowe Show, Zach welcomes old friend and NBA analyst Richard Jefferson for a rapid-fire, lively conversation focused around five big NBA topics. They tackle the dramatic John Morant trade situation, predict the Finals landscape in the Eastern Conference, speculate on LeBron James’ future, and dig up some behind-the-scenes NBA stories. Later, Mo Dakhil joins for a deep dive into the playoff/play-in races in the West, with special focus on the Blazers and Lakers. Finally, Keonte George of the Utah Jazz stops by for an engaging interview about his breakout season, developmental journey, and the Jazz culture.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. John Morant Trade Landscape (05:08–17:45)

Main Question: Where should Ja Morant go, and what’s his realistic trade value in this market?

• Richard’s Picks: RJ likes Brooklyn as a buy-low destination for Ja, citing their recent history of quickly attracting stars when they become relevant, as well as keeping some assets while jumpstarting relevance.

  • “You could jumpstart [Brooklyn] because you have a guy that... for three to four years, he’s either going to be our one or two.” (06:19, RJ)
  • Draws a parallel to Vince Carter’s career resurgence in New Jersey as a buy-low trade.

• Zach’s Analysis: Believes Memphis won’t get a massive asset haul for Ja, given his recent injuries, off-court issues, and hefty contract.

  • “He’s never been a three point shooter, never been a defensive player, and hasn’t been on the court much... I don’t know what his trade value is” (08:04, Zach)
  • Considers a potential total Grizzlies rebuild (including Jaren Jackson Jr.).

• Possible Teams: Brooklyn, Milwaukee ("desperation play"), Miami ("ultimate test of culture"), Sacramento (Zach’s favorite fit despite lack of rumored interest).

• On Miami: Both agree Heat culture could provide needed structure, but Zach questions if they’d truly take the plunge.

2. Who’s Making the Finals from the East? (17:45–22:32)

• RJ’s Take: No way to know—fields is wide open. Thinks team upgrades at the deadline (ex. Detroit) could swing things.
  • “I picked the Eastern Conference in seven.” (20:38, RJ, on not having a favorite)
• Zach’s Take: Leans toward the Knicks but doesn't feel great about it. Praises Detroit’s potential and Boston’s resilience, but questions their ceiling.
  • “Detroit can absolutely make the Finals as is because the east is that much of a mess. But if they want to have a chance, I think they need more shooting.” (21:02, Zach)
• Cleveland Cavaliers: Both note Cleveland’s improved form.

3. LeBron James’ Future Destination (22:33–25:50)

• RJ’s Guess: Lakers or retirement; surprisingly, is out of the loop on LeBron’s actual plans. Has no sense, even in the "friend circle."
  • “For the first time... I don’t even have an idea of what he’s doing.” (22:47, RJ)
• Zach’s Guess: Throws out Cleveland nostalgia scenario; no “Warriors” possibility.

4. Deep Cut Dark Horse Title Contender (27:15–37:56)

• RJ’s Picks: Celtics (“well-coached, chip on their shoulder, have pieces...”), originally tries Spurs, but Zach nixes as not “deep cut” enough.
  • “Boston Celtics are well coached. They have the pedigree... could actually put themselves [in position].” (28:34, RJ)
• Zach’s Choice: Minnesota Timberwolves. Praises Anthony Edwards’ leap, defense, quality depth, and impending upgrade.
  • “If we got to the end of the season and the Timberwolves won the championship, I would not be, like, blown away by it.” (34:12, Zach)
• Denver/Oklahoma City Out: Both agree these are title favorites, not dark horses.
• Caveats: Minnesota’s “horrible” losses and need for another backcourt piece are discussed.

5. NBA Fights: Favorite Stories & Grudges (39:27–44:53)

• Dennis Schroder vs. Luka Doncic: Recent altercation serves as jumping-off point.
• RJ’s "Villain": Andres Nocioni—tough, dirty, persistent irritant.
  • “My favorite villains of all time, Andres Nocioni... [he] would do all the things, all these crazy things just to try and get under your skin.” (41:46, RJ)
  • Shares hilarious story about Nocioni elbowing him at opening tip with Manu Ginobili as witness.

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Play-In Race, Western Conference Deep Dive

With Mo Dakhil (46:09–85:54)

1. Portland Trail Blazers Breakdown (46:18–70:49)

• Blazers’ Surge: 7-2 in last nine games despite point guard injuries and a negative point differential.
• Denny Avdija: Offensive engine; team offense craters when he sits (59:40–60:10).
  • “117 points per 100 possessions when Denny is on the floor—that’s top 10 offense. 98 when he’s off—the worst in the NBA.” (59:40, Zach)
• Defensive Issues: High turnovers doom defense, as live ball turnovers lead to transition points for opponents (55:39).
• Encouraging Signs:
  • Improvement in cutting and offensive movement (57:52).
  • Shaden Sharpe’s steady development.
  • Drew Holiday’s return at point guard.
  • Clingan’s rim protection and rebounding, though offense is still a mixed bag.
• Front Office Direction: Likely to stand pat—no aggressive buy/sell moves expected unless for "value."

2. Lakers: Blah and Maybe Worse (70:49–79:35)

• Position: Fifth in the West, but advanced stats/eye test suggest trouble. "Blah" is the theme (74:24).
• Mo’s takeaway: “They’re just an average team. That sucks when we’re not used to seeing ‘average’ associated with LeBron James.” (72:57, Mo)
• On Luka/LeBron pairing: Offense less dangerous than expected. Defensive issues, slow pace, lack of rim pressure. Over-reliance on free throws.
• DeAndre Ayton Discussion: Despite decent numbers, remains underwhelming ("jack of all trades, master of none").
  • “He hasn’t gotten better at a single part of his offensive game.” (78:40, Zach)

3. Free Throw Rate & NBA Trends (68:36–70:49)

• League-wide free throw rate is quietly dropping; refs seem to have changed approach midseason.

4. Thunder’s Vulnerability (81:15–85:54)

• Mo draws a parallel to Rocky movies regarding Thunder’s temporary struggles.
• Zach: “They’re closer to Drago... but Drago wins by split decision at the end... I never thought they were invincible.” (82:52)

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Keonte George Interview: Utah Jazz Breakout Star (86:22–113:44)

1. Draft Stories & Development (86:41–98:59)

• Utah Pre-Draft: Bonded with Danny Ainge (“He told me... he wasn’t going to eat because he was going to eat Chipotle”—87:07, Keonte).
• Role Clarification: Always seen as a point guard by the Jazz brass, even if he was resistant at first.
• Raw Year 2 Setback: Benched for Isaiah Collier midseason, but handled with professionalism after initial emotional response. Credits team and Will Hardy for honest, “blunt” conversations.

2. Relationship with Will Hardy (95:14–98:59)

• Summer Exit Interview: Hardy was brutally honest: “He said, if the front office came to me and said, ‘should we bet the farm on Keonte with a big long-term extension,’ I would probably say no.” (96:09, Keonte recounting will’s words)
• Motivation: Used this feedback as a catalyst; improved conditioning, work habits, and focus.

3. On-Court Growth (99:34–102:03)

• Playmaking Progress: Pick-and-roll reads, passing have come naturally (“passing jumped off the screen,” notes Zach).
• Defensive Leap: Significant improvement through structure, PD coach Chris Jones, and consistent effort.

4. Unique Jazz Culture & Chemistry (102:13–103:28)

• Partnering with Lauri Markkanen: “He empowers me down the stretch all the time... that gives me confidence.” (103:28, Keonte)
• Team Mentality: “When you get the chance to play, we got to go out and fight... we play to win.” (108:00, Keonte)

5. Fun Anecdotes & Personal Growth (104:24–108:00)

• Burger Cookoff: Lost to Walter Clayton Jr.; jokes about being “robbed.”
• Weight Loss Journey: Lost 25 pounds; “Had to stop eating after 10pm and just run a lot.” (106:06)
• Veteran Advice: Kevin Love’s openness on mental health has been a big influence.

6. On the Season’s Focus

• “Just our connectedness on a defensive end… our offense is playing great.” (112:30, Keonte on team goals)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On NBA Drama (03:26, RJ):
  “The NBA is the biggest soap opera in all of sports. It’s better than Real Housewives. It’s better than Survivor. It’s better than Amazing Race. Because it’s all of them combined.”
• On “buy-low” trades (14:30, RJ):
  “If you’re able to keep your main assets and bring in a guy that you can buy low, that’s 26 years old and is an all-NBA talent—you gotta kind of think outside the box…”
• On LeBron’s Future (22:47, RJ):
  “For the first time… I don’t even have an idea of what he’s doing.”
• On Celtics as Dark Horse (28:34, RJ):
  “Boston Celtics are well-coached. They have the pedigree. They have the chip on their shoulder… those guys could actually put themselves [in position].”
• On Anthony Edwards/Minnesota’s Leap (34:12, Zach):
  “If we got to the end of the season and the Timberwolves won the championship, I would not be, like, blown away by it.”
• RJ’s Favorite Villain (41:46):
  “My favorite villains of all time, Andres Nocioni… he would do all these crazy things just to try and get under your skin.”
• On Lakers’ Blahness (72:57, Mo):
  “They’re just an average team. That sucks when we’re not used to seeing ‘average’ associated with LeBron James.”
• On Keonte George’s Extension Meeting (96:09):
  “He said, if the front office came to me and said, ‘should we bet the farm on Keonte with a big long-term extension,’ I would probably say no.”
• On Jazz Mindset (108:00, Keonte):
  “When you get the chance to play, we got to go out there and fight… we play to win.”

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [05:08] John Morant trade destinations
• [17:45] Finals prediction—East
• [22:33] LeBron’s 2026 landing spot
• [27:15] Deep cut championship picks
• [39:27] NBA fight stories (RJ)
• [46:18] Mo Dakhil deep dives: Blazers, Lakers, play-in
• [59:40] Denny Avdija’s on-off splits
• [72:57] Why the Lakers are “blah”
• [86:22] Keonte George interview begins
• [95:14] George on Will Hardy’s blunt exit meeting
• [106:06] Keonte’s weight loss transformation

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Concluding Thoughts

This episode is packed with authentic, insightful, and conversational takes on the NBA’s hottest topics. From trade rumors and playoff debates to the real-life challenges and relationships shaping locker rooms, Zach Lowe and crew deliver both expertise and entertainment. Standout storytelling—from Richard Jefferson’s classic villain tales to Keonte George’s refreshingly candid development arc—offers listeners a holistic view into the NBA’s game within the game.

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For more episodes, find The Zach Lowe Show weekly on The Ringer and your favorite podcast app.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign. Up on the Zach Low Show. It's Monday and a lot is going on, as always in the NBA. Richard Jefferson is here to answer five big questions about the NBA season, including the John Morant trade landscape. What teams make sense? Are they really going to get this big package for John Morant? Is it going to be a win now team? Is Memphis going to go totally into the tank and trade Jaren Jackson Jr. Too? I wouldn't close the door on it. Go through the whole landscape of teams. Richard makes an off the beaten path pick for John Moran. And then we talk about who's going to win the East. What's our deep cut NBA finals contender? Where's Braun going to play? And then Richard just has a great NBA fight kind of story. Motaquil is here. We're going to talk about the other end of the playoff race. The play in race in the west is starting to crystallize. And we're going to look at Portland, who's been hot until they lost the Knicks last night and a check in on the Lakers. And the word blah is used quite often. And then Keante George from the Utah Jazz. We recorded this before they lost by 9,000 points to the Hornets. But we talked about his breakout season and everything in Utah. He's got some good stories about Will Hardy. We hit everything today. The jaw stuff, Anthony Davis's injury, other trade rumors, everything. Coming up on the Zach Low Show. Welcome to the Zach Low show. Look who it is. My old colleague and friend, Richard Jefferson. How you doing?

[B]

I'm great. Am I an old friend? Like we're not still friends? I love you, Zach. You're my guy.

[A]

We're friends. You've been to my house. You've sat in my Adirondack chair and referred to me as Clark Griswold. When people would suburban moms drove by and waved at me and then texted me, who's that guy in your front yard?

[B]

It was because I was black. We can edit that out, but still it's because we're not going to edit that out. Who's that guy in your front lawn?

[A]

You made it. You actually made a joke about that. But I won't repeat the joke. Like, like me. Richard Jefferson, you are the. The. You are one of the participants on road. You're not. Ali is the host, but you are one of the core members.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no.

[A]

Host.

[B]

I think it might say hosted by. She is 100% the host. Has been the host. She's actually the COO. She runs every single thing I road tripping. I show up. And like you've seen me on NBA Today, I show up when the red light comes on, I work. When the red light goes off, I leave. That's what I get to do with road tripping. Because of Ali Clifton.

[A]

Well, like I was at the Zach Lowe show. You all at road tripping were snubbed by the Golden Globes last night for best podcast. Amy Poehler. Congratulations to her. She won. I actually, actually thought, Richard, the Golden Globes were the forum that might reward a deep dive basketball podcast for its. For its acumen. But no, no, they went celebrities, they went with celebrities.

[B]

But it's the same thing. It's like dramas at the Oscars are always what get rewarded, never comedies, right? Never action movies. It's only, you got to be a drama. You got to be a period piece that no one's ever seen from a time period that no one gives a fuck about. Those are the people. You will win all the Oscars right now. There's some other good Oscar winners, but great comedies that the whole world laughed about and made $800 million. Now we don't care about that. Who cares about laughter in this world? Let's sell misery. So for us basketball podcasts, we're never going to get the actual love that we deserve, right? Because that's what we are. We're the action movie. We're the fun movie. People get excited. There's an emotional connection for years to the teams and the players that we talk about, and they make it seem like this isn't drama. This is the biggest soap opera and in all of sports. The NBA is the biggest soap opera in all of sports. And it's not even remotely close. I tell people, they're like, well, you know, sports is like, no, no, no. You don't even have to get involved with the actual play. Just join your favorite team and listen to the drama. It's better than Real Housewives. It's better than Survivor. It's better than Amazing Race because it's all of them combined. How was that for a rant?

[A]

It was very good. I will say. Amy Poehler thanked Spotify, everyone at Spotify and the ringer. So technically, I think thanked at the Golden Globes by Amy Poehler.

[B]

She said the words the ringer.

[A]

Yeah. So I was thanked. I think so.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Thank.

[B]

You Know me and you have a unique, funny, kind of not relevant, but I would say complicated relationship. I. Not in a bad way. I'm saying it's like we don't really interact we see each other, it's like, oh, hey. And then it's just, you know, I wouldn't say we're. We don't know each other, but we don't know each other. So that's what, you know.

[A]

I don't know where, where are you going with this?

[B]

I'm going with this to say congratulations to him. It was your face. I was like, yo, that's a big deal. Shout out to. To Bill Simmons. Getting the company that got. That he started got announced at the our. At the Golden Globes. That's.

[A]

Careful. Yeah, careful. Not the Oscars. Careful.

[C]

Whatever.

[A]

He got mentioned by name.

[D]

I did.

[A]

I. I just got, you know, congratulations, Bill.

[B]

Like, that's. That's actually really, really awesome, man. That's really awesome.

[A]

So wait, were you. Nevermind. Speaking of soap opera, I. This is five big questions with Richard Jefferson. And the first one is very soap opera. John Morant is on the market because John Morant doesn't want to play for the Memphis Grizzlies anymore. He doesn't want to play for Tomas Isolo. And the Grizzlies have sent up the flare. John Morant's available. Okay, great. Richard Jefferson's best fit for John Morant is okay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

This is.

[B]

This is okay. Best fit. Now I would say this assuming health. We have to assume health because that's the big thing. I can say a situation and if he's not healthy, if he can give you 70, 65 to 70 gains for the next five years. Okay, if he. If so, I'm going to say it from assuming health. I think John morant, who is 26.

[A]

26.

[B]

26. I think I would look at a place. You look at Brooklyn. I think Brooklyn from this standpoint, you can do it through the draft. And I believe in what they're doing 100%. We're aligned. Same with Washington. You can do it through the draft, but if you get yourself a piece that is still 26 and below, and I know Ja's going to help you win games, I know that. But I do believe that Brooklyn, and it has been proven now, not great, but multiple times, that once you make it an attractive place, you can get free agents or people want to play. That's a point blank. Argue with your mama, right?

[A]

We saw it.

[B]

Paul Pierce, kg, Darren Williams. We've seen great players come in there. We saw it with Kyrie, James Harden, Kevin Durant. We've seen it. So you don't have to do a skeleton rebuild. Now. I'm not saying go and give up pieces and a bunch of all your assets to go get John Morant. I'm saying that if you can get John Morant and keep some of your assets, or keep your assets and keep what you're trying to do intact, you could jump started because you have a guy that you're like, okay, for three to four years, he's either going to be our one or two, but this is how we're going to jumpstart ourselves to relevancy, right? That's what's been proven in Brooklyn. You can do it the old school method, like that's fine, I'm supported. But I think that that would be a good location, a good start, a good culture, a good superstar, right? And you know, he plays with a chip on their, on his shoulder and, and Brooklyn's a great place for that.

[A]

They're on my long list and I.

[B]

By the way, give me your short list.

[A]

I'm just going to name a bunch of teams. But before I do that, I will say they allegedly want young players and picks for Jean Moran. Well, I don't think they're getting that kind of package. I actually don't. I don't know who the team is and I don't know how much trade value he has, if any compared to Trey Young who just got traded for two expiring contracts. Helpful players, but mostly expiring contracts. John Morant is 26. He's never been a three point shooter, he's never been a defensive player and he's not been on the court for much of the last three seasons due to off court incidents and injuries. The one thing he could always do was get to the rim like all hell and draw in the defense and finish at the rim. He's not doing that this year. He did it in a couple recent games before he went out again. If he's not doing that at a high level and he has three years left at 40 million plus on his contract, I'm not sure what his trade value is beyond if it's, if it's equivalent to Trey Young or whatever. But I don't think there's like a good young player, multiple picks kind of package out there. I think they could get that for Jaren Jackson Jr. And I'm not going to shut the door on a full Memphis Grizzlies rebuild ahead of the trade deadline. But here are my teams. You ready? I'm going to give you like Brooklyn's on my list. Just drafted a lot of point guard types, but you're right. Why not? Right John Moran. There were teams that would have been on this list two years ago that it's passed them by. It's passed the Grizzly by. Orlando, Utah, pass them by. Atlanta. They just did their thing. New Orleans, Jeremiah Fears is already there. Toronto. I think their rumored interest in Trae Young has been a little exaggerated and is a little bit outdated. They could sniff around this with. With, you know, can we upgrade from quickly? I just don't see it. They're playing pretty well. I don't love the fit with Scotty Barnes. And if you're playing pretty well, like, that's kind of a nuclear bomb to drop onto your team in the middle of the season. Can I keep going?

[B]

Yeah, I'm good.

[A]

I'm.

[B]

I'm locked in. I'm pulling up some things so I can have some rebuttals for you.

[A]

Minnesota needs a guard upgrade. I don't think the money works. They'd have to trade like a Nas Reed plus something. Plus something. And I don't see it. I don't love to fit with Ant either. If I'm Ant, I'm not psyched about that. Portland, their point guards have been hurt all year. They're starting to come back. Drew's back. I think there's hope. Scoot comes back this season. Dame is looming again. Nuclear bomb to drop into your team. Don't see it. Houston don't see it. Clippers don't see it. Now we're getting to the good ones.

[B]

Okay, I was about to say what. What kind of list do you got, Zach?

[A]

Milwaukee, desperation play. Don't love the fit with Giannis, but that's. They. They are. They are. I'd be surprised if they don't make a play for one of these, like high salaried. Michael Porter Jr. Zach Levine, John Moran, whoever.

[B]

It's all. It's all to keep you honest. And it's all. No matter what, it's worth it.

[A]

Miami has been the hot team. What do you think about that? Assuming Bam. Obviously Bam's not in the deal. It's. It's. I saw some fake trade where it was like Wiggins plus Haquez plus two first round picks. I'm like, what are you smoking? The Miami trade is like hero plus dead money plus not much more than that.

[B]

Yeah, I, I like. Again, the hardest part about this conversation is we. I want to assume health. I want to assume help. So we're just going to talk about basketball ability, basketball skill, even if we're saying 65 games, which is which I do laugh about that, and I know Zach knows this. Tell me how many games he's averaged over the course of his career, how many times he's played over 75. I pull it up faster than you want to play a game.

[A]

You can, you can go ahead and do it. It's. It's not many.

[B]

What team is he on?

[A]

The Memphis Grizzlies. I'm pulling it up right now.

[B]

I had to scroll really far down.

[A]

He's played 70 games zero times now. There's pandemic shortened seasons in there. Right. So it says it's not quite fair, but the last three years, 50 games, nine games, 61, 50. It's not. It's not going to happen.

[B]

Okay, so what. Okay, so let's say assuming 65 games. Because if we're not doing that then his bet, that's really where his value drops.

[A]

Well, and this is like, this is why the team. That event. I think some team will trade something real for him eventually.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And it's the ultimate buy low thing. It's. He'll never be this unhealthy. The off court stuff is hopefully in the rear view. He's totally unmotivated there. And we'll get the motivated chip on his shoulder. John Morant. Which actually raises the question of like, what exactly does John Morant want? Because he hated the offense last year, which is the offense Miami is running right now. And he. But then they switched the offense and he was running more pick and rolls than ever before, which is what he wants. But now he decides he doesn't want this coach because the coach dared to hold him accountable in the locker room and call him out in front of his teammates.

[B]

Well then, young man, Miami is a great place for you. You want to go to board.

[A]

What does he want?

[B]

Look, you want to go to boarding school, this is what will happen. And I don't. And this is not even a John Morant. This is an anybody thing. And I'll give you one comparison. I'll give you one comparison. If you go to Miami, there is a fit that they do. Like they help get Shaq in shape when. Towards that, towards the end. Now they moved on from Shaq when it was, you know, they kind of. It was the time. But Shaq had a great run in Miami. There's just a way that they do things. There's an energy in which is from top to bottom, from owner to president, general manager to coach. It is straight down that line. And I think that's great. I think John Morant forces you to change Your style of play, he's too talented, too good. You can play this. Everybody touches the ball system. We saw that in San Antonio years ago when they were playing against the old Miami Heat. Everyone touches the ball. But for some reason, Tony Parker ended up with a pick and roll late game. Armand Ginobi ended up late game, but everybody was touching the ball. And I like that style play. I would compare the. The. The John Moran potential trade as into the Vince Carter trade to the Nets. And the reason why I say that is we. You talk about selling low. They wanted him out. He had had a string of injuries. He was not motivated. It was just a weird error. And we remember we traded Eric Williams, Aaron Williams and Alonzo Mourning, right? A lot of, like, free. Like a lot of guys that were future free agents, money guys that could play, but it was more of like, we didn't give up any of the assets. We didn't have to give up too much to get Vince. And then he got there motivated next to Jason Kidd and in our culture. And then he had this resurgence of four to five years of health playoff performances. You know, really, in my opinion, that's what vaulted him to like the hall of Fame Vince that he is, because those were. It was like the initial shock of, oh, my God, this is Vince Carter. Then that kind of weight. And then he had a great stretch with the Nets and he was a good player as he moved on and obviously all the years. But that stretch with the Nets was like, oh, okay, now we have a big span of him being a dominant player. So you can see that if you can get into that culture and even a guy that's had some injuries, stuff like that, ultimately kind of found his health, found his motivation, and was in a good space. And we didn't really have to give up a tremendous amount of assets because it was on the buy low. If we had to give up a ton of assets and he comes and if it was me for Vince Carter trade, people would be like, okay. But then all of a sudden it just. If you're able to keep your main assets and bring in a guy that you can buy low, that's 26 years old and is an all NBA talent, you. You. You got to kind of think outside the box and look at other reference points of guys that were able to leave and then have a resurgence and a level of success, and it's been.

[A]

Done before, you have to ask yourself, is he still an all NBA talent? Because if he can't finish at the rim like he did in his early prime. He's still in his prime then he's not an all NBA talent. I don't sense and look this is bluffing season but I don't sense a huge amount of interest in Miami. But I bet they'll look at it. This is just me educated guess. I bet they look at it because they've lost four out of five. It's clear what they are. They're an average team despite the fact that again they're running the offense he hated. And by the way I should have mentioned Toronto. Their coach Darko Rajkovic was a Taylor Jenkins guy in Memphis and that didn't end so well with Josh. I think Miami knows what they are and they might have like an either or choice to make with Hero or Powell long term. Like do we really want to have both those guys for 70 million a year or whatever? And for as big as Jaw's contract is because he didn't make all NBA. It's quote only 40 something million dollars. It's not like a 55, 60 million dollars just albatross of the contract. I would still bet no on Miami but I bet they at least take a look. My favorite team despite the fact that all the reports are they're not interested. They're definitely not going to trade picks or young players. Young players they don't even freaking play for whatever reason because they stink. They're 9 and 30 is still Sacramento. It just seems like the perfect Sacramento expiring money.

[B]

It's great for Sacramento second round picks.

[A]

But like I just don't think there's. And, but, and by the way, if that's the offer the Grizzlies the face you're making the stink face. The Grizzlies might just say we're not doing it because we have him under contract for three years. If we want to. If, if we want to take a step back this year and get into the lottery, we can do that by sitting John Morant and the way he's played. We can do that by playing John Moran. We're not in a rush to trade him for DeMar DeRozan's expiring contract plus whatever. So my pick would still be Sacramento. Okay, ready for big question number two.

[B]

I don't like Sacramento for John.

[A]

I don't like Sacramento for anybody.

[B]

I didn't want to say that aggressively. I was staying, you know, specific to the person but I don't like that.

[A]

I like Sacramento for Vivek's family and friends. It seems like a great spot for them. They get to run the show, never get fired. It's great big question number two for Richard Jefferson. Who the hell is making the finals from the Eastern Conference?

[B]

We don't know.

[C]

This is.

[A]

That's not an acceptable answer.

[B]

I'm a break down my answer. I'm breaking down my answer. Right. As we look at right here in the standings. Where are the standings? We're in Memphis Grizzly's roster ill Detroit. They're one of those teams where I look at them and you can say OKC two years ago. Two. Two years ago. Where they're really good, but they're missing a piece. And it could be a small piece like. And not small, but adding Hartenstein, what he did for their team, I think they have a much better run if they would have had a quality big that year before where they lost to Dallas. Right. I think that's where Detroit is. Right.

[A]

By the way, Bill and I have argued about this a lot. I am big on the. Detroit should make a trade this season and really go for it. He.

[B]

He's on this.

[A]

He's on the stand pat. Let the young guys sort of test themselves, fail in the playoffs, learn what they need. I'm like, I think I know what they need.

[B]

They need.

[A]

They need shooting and the east is there for them.

[B]

And that's where I'm saying it's like, that's what I thought. You looked at the one thing that OKC and I know we're doing a revisionist history. One thing that OKC and I was just really bullish on it at the time. Okc, they were in a. Dallas got a ton of bigs. You looked at Minnesota was so big. You look at Jokic, you looked at Anthony Davis, you looked at these monster teams that the west was building and that were around and. And the one thing that you're the number one seed and the one thing that you don't have is a big like, come on, you're setting yourself up for failure. You're setting yourself up for failure. And they get there. And the last thing I'll say about this before we'll get back on the topic is that Sam Presti came out. He's like, I didn't want to mess with the group and we had a good thing going. But you can still have a basketball mind. And it's like, we don't have to do this big impact, but if we can add a tweak, if we can add this little. We don't need to go get that B plus player and give up assets. To try and make a run. But we can get a B minus, a C plus player that at least kind of fills that hole or little patches it for this season. And that's where I think Detroit is in that space. So they're still very vulnerable in areas. The Knicks, I like the Knicks from the veteran standpoint. Like they've been in big moments, they've been in big places, kind of open. The Celtics, you get a matchup. I think this is all matchup based and who plays well. That's why we don't know. You know, this sack. Whenever a reporter says that they pick a team in seven, what does that mean?

[A]

They don't know who's winning the series.

[B]

Exactly. So I picked the Eastern Conference in seven.

[A]

Good. For the East, I'm sticking with the Knicks by default. I just. I haven't. Boston is an awesome story and they have the Tatum thing coming. I just got to see it a little bit more from them. I just. I still am in shock at how good they've been given their front court situation. And Keita and Garza have been awesome for them. Detroit. Detroit can absolutely make the Finals as is because the east is that of much of a mess. But if they actually want to have a chance in the Finals, I think that they need to. If they want to up their odds of making the Finals and then have a chance, I think they need a little bit more shooting. Michael Porter Jr. Would be great there. It'd be great in a lot of places. Orlando just doesn't stay healthy enough. Suggs is out again.

[B]

Would you give a. Would you give a young player. Would you give a young player for. For Michael Porter Jr. If you're Detroit.

[A]

My Detroit stance is I'm at this point, I'm drawing my asset line at Ivy. Ivey's the best guy you're getting for me of my young players. You're not touching a Sar Thompson. That guy has too much potential. You're not touching him. I don't even want to give you Isaiah Stewart because he's really, really good.

[B]

To your style of play, your physical.

[A]

Yeah, no, but Ivy. And if you asked me for Holland and the guy was really good, I think about it. But I want Ivy plus Tobias plus a pick or two, see what I can get. The team that's starting to play better is the Cavs.

[B]

That's what I was going to say. You get that? Go ahead.

[A]

Garland looks like Garland and he's played a bunch of games in a row. Jared Allen's had a good run. They're plus 11 with their four, quote unquote, all stars. People refer to them as four all stars and technically they've all been All Stars, I guess four all Stars. Merrill's playing really well with their other two guards. They still need streuss, I think, but they're. They're being slept on a little bit. But I'm still going with the Knicks. Don't feel great about it.

[D]

Don't feel great about it.

[A]

Okay, ready for question number three.

[B]

I've been waiting.

[A]

What team does LeBron play for next season?

[B]

I would assume either the Lakers. I would assume retirement. I. It's really, it's it for the first time ever since we've been in the same, like, friend group and circle. Like, I truly don't even have an idea of what he's doing. It's kind of like the decision, like the things that he does. Even, you know, when it was going to Cleveland, going to la, they were very late. Whispers, even him going back to Cleveland caught everybody off guard. The Laker thing was kind of like, we could see the writing on the wall, kind of where his career is headed, stuff like that. Kind of like when Shaq made that transition. I don't know where he's going. We don't talk about it. There's not like, oh, what do you know? It's like he might be retiring. He, you know, he's not saying anything. They're doing a year 23 patch on his jersey. I just saw, I saw that. Yeah, that's sick. Awesome, right? So. And they're doing it for all of his games. Some of these things might lend to retirement, right? They might make you think, okay, well, if he was going to do a year 24, if he was going to do a year 24 and that was his retirement year, why wouldn't they do the patch that year? Maybe. We don't know. We don't know. So from that space, I would say he's either in L. A. I don't see him like, he's such a big, like, piece. Adding him to any situation just makes it different. So I think he's great in la. I think the biggest thing is you look at where LA is right now, right? They're 23 and 13. They've had a tremendous amount of injuries. You know, if guys were healthy, LeBron missed the first, like the opening night for the first time ever. So when I look at this, this team, even though they're missing things, they have division. This team easily could. It could end up top three in the conference. So, like, are you really that unhappy with the dynamic? I wouldn't believe so.

[A]

They could also end up seventh pretty easily if their record catches up with their point differential because Phoenix doesn't look like they're going anywhere. And the Rock. The Rockets are in seventh right now. The Rockets have lost four or five and have fallen now. A lot. Shane Good. Miss a lot of those games. Came back last night. Someone's getting seventh. That's good. And it could. It could also be the Lakers. I don't like. I don't. Maybe I'm. Maybe I'm a little scarred from the. The Rich Paul statement that came out over the summer about, you know, it's a hard balance to strike between winning now and winning later. Cleveland. Cleveland retirement tour. I like that idea.

[B]

I could see it.

[A]

I'm going with Cleveland. I'm going with Cleveland.

[B]

Look, if it. If it's.

[A]

Unless they win the title, if we're.

[B]

Making stuff up, purely hypothetical, I would say Cleveland or LA would be the places that I would see him end his career.

[A]

Warriors. No, I don't see it either.

[B]

He's too. He's too competitive. He's too competitive. Now, if some of the warriors wanted to come down to LA or meet him in Cleveland. But I just, you know, I. I wouldn't. I just. I think he is. Is locked in on this year. And that's as. That's as far as I know. By the way, we.

[A]

I. Can I go back to question two just for a second? It's adjacent to question two. We didn't talk about this team, and it kind of has been one of the bigger stories to some degree of the season. Do you have any hope of the Bucks putting it together and like, actually emerging as a. Even if we're in the play in. Because they're pretty far behind right now or they, you know, chasing the 60 to like, actually emerging as a team that, like, oh, yeah, like, maybe they could win a playoff series or two.

[B]

No, if you.

[A]

This.

[B]

We're not going to disrespect Giannis. If you have Giannis on your team, you can win a playoff series. Now. It's all about what's surrounding him. And I think that's where some of the. The curiosity to what's going on there in Milwaukee is kind of really stemmed. But, yeah, if you got Giannis, if you got Jokic, if you got Luke, I'm not counting you out of anything, Steph. There's. There's about seven guys that. If you haven't, we're talking about the first round or we're talking about the play in. I'm not counting you out until you are out.

[A]

Can I count them out of, like, conference finals and finals?

[B]

Yes, you can. Well, again, yes, you can. But the trade deadline's not here, so we don't as.

[A]

As things stand now.

[B]

As things stand now.

[A]

So we don't know they're five and three since Giannis came back from injury. It's solid. Last night in Denver. Was it in. I think it was in Denver. Indicative of like they were. They lost by four and they were plus 17 in Giannis's minutes. That's just like, that's just how it is.

[B]

Numbers.

[A]

Yeah, it really is. Jokic, numbers. Question number four. This is my favorite one. Your deepest cut team that you could actually see winning the NBA championship. So, like, not Oklahoma City, not Denver, not whoever. Your favorite in the east is like a team that's sort of in the standings right now. And you could not, like, oh, they could go on a run a couple. Couple rounds. Like, they could actually. You could actually plausibly see this team hoisting the. Larry o'. Brien.

[B]

I'll give you two teams. I would say the Celtics and I would say the Spurs.

[A]

I'm going to disqualify the Spurs. So your pick is the cell. The spurs beat the Thunder three times. They're second in the West. I'm disqualified.

[B]

It just even. Right? Okay, fair. You're in. Disqualify them where those. The only people that have. I would say we know. We. We. I. We know this, Zach. We as media members. We sell 10 teams have a chance to win a championship. We sell that, you know, eight teams. It would be a bust if they don't make it to their conference finals. This is what we sell now. There's really like three to five teams at this point in time that you would say are in contention. Three to five teams. Everybody is on the outside. You can prove it. You can prove it for 40 games. Can you do it for 60? Can you do it for 80? What do you look like in first, second round of the playoffs? So there's, there's. So there are teams look 40% different in. In April and May than they do right now. So it's. It's hard to say. So if I'm going to literally say the Celtics, Jason Tatum, you look at the way they're playing and you're like, whoa, if they get the Knicks, if there, if there's a, you know, if there's a sprained ankle by a best player. And there's like, there's so many different variables that can come in. And I think the Boston Celtics are well coached. They have the pedigree. They have the chip on their shoulder. They have, they have pie that you're like, wait a second. These guys could actually put themselves. It's like the Detroit Pistons winning the championship in 04. They weren't probably like, top six on people's lists. And then we look at them and it kind of built out to something special. So I'm going to say the Celtics would be the team that's kind of like a dark horse. Like, right. If we were to have this conversation, say we were like, yo, how on earth. Like, if you would have told me in mid January that the Celtics or the spurs were going to win a championship, it was like, I kind of would have been like, okay, I can see it, but I didn't think I would see it.

[A]

That's my, I think that's a great pick. They're third in the East. They have the best point differential in the East. But I do think, given preseason expectations, the surprise factor of where they are now versus where we thought they would be, I think they're a great pick. I, I, I had an easy pick for this, and I'll get to it in a second. The Rockets, I didn't quite know what to do with, for the sake of this question because there was a, there, there was like a month where people thought they are the second best team and the biggest threat to Oklahoma City. Now they're in seventh and their offense looks a little bit stuck in mud. I didn't quite know how to qualify them. Did you, did you consider them at all? Are they above this discussion?

[B]

I think they're one of those teams like the 22 and 14 guys miss some, some time. Kevin Durant is brand new there and they looked amazing. They, their, their offensive rebounding rate, their extra, their hustle, their offense can look like shit. But you just have to believe over the next 40 games between Shingoon, between Kevin Durant, like, they have enough offensive weapons there that and they have the ultimate offensive weapon, that they'll get it out the mud. It's not like they're trash. They're just not clicking or progressing off of what we saw in the early season. So I put them in that category of five teams that if you were to tell me at the end of the season right now that, that the Knicks won, that OKC one, that Denver won, that Houston won, do you be like I can see it.

[A]

Denver is 26 and 13, third in the West. They are a juggernaut hiding in plain sight. The way they have played without Jokic is. I mean, they're only three and three, but they've not. They've also missed Jamal Murray for a couple of those games.

[B]

Christian Brown, Aaron Gordon, they won in Boston.

[A]

If, if a guy like Watson and Pickett and Najee, if one and a half of those guys can take what they've done in this stretch, apply it to the healthy Nuggets and the Nuggets indeed get healthy, including Aaron Gordon staying healthy. This is an Oklahoma City level juggernaut hiding in plain sight right now. So they're out of this conversation.

[B]

They took OKC to seven and they were banged up and it was a close game in seven at home for okc. Aaron Gordon, like, he pulled a Willis Reed went out there, gained Ellie Cabarru, who? And so when I'm like, if that was the fraction in MARGINS now, yeah, OK, seeing the 24:1 start, all the other stuff, yes, they look like Golden State during that 73 win. Coming off a championship, they are still that team. But I think as people have progressed, they've kind of seen, you know, okay, we can beat him here, we can attack him here. There's little bitty things, but I still believe them. You know, this game 40 to 60 is the hardest in the NBA, period. It's not even like, it's not even close. It is like there's nothing in the beginning. At the beginning you're excited. At the end you're excited that that 40 to 60. Oh, that's when you be. That's the professional part of our league. And so like when you look at Denver and even if you look at Indiana, Indiana was a fraction away from okc. So you look at OKC got better. Mitchell, like they felt like they added a big time free agent. He was just sitting on their bench because of an INJ right there. And guys have gotten better. So I believe that Oakley OKC is still the favorite. I will never disrespect them, but I do believe that Minnesota was a fraction away and one of them improved their roster exponentially, in my opinion.

[A]

And that's Denver, my pick for this. And you may, you may laugh at it is ridiculous or you may think it, or you may think it's too obvious. I think the Minnesota Timberwolves could win the championship. They're my like deep cut championship contender. 26 and 14, the top seven on both ends of the floor. Ant Is unbelievable. Ant is so, so good. Dominant physically and just the ability to score from every part of the floor. He's making the right play. He just lords over these games. He's like a domineering presence in these.

[B]

Games, and he likes it. That's the thing I like. He's like, yes, I like punking you on both ends of the floor. Inside, outside, dunking.

[A]

Nas Reid has found his game. They're a lock to make a trade to upgrade their backcourt off the bench. An absolute lock. I don't know who it's going to be, but they'll get someone I like. Look, it's a deep cut for a reason. I'm not going to pick them, but if we got to the end of the season and the Timberwolves won the championship, I would not be, like, blown away by it because I think they're that good. They have a proven track record. They have a guy. They have a defense. They have a good supporting cast. They're my pick for this question, what have they want?

[B]

I'm trying to look. They've won 10 out of 13, and their.

[A]

Their losses are always. They. Their losses are always horrible and make you doubt everything you think you know.

[B]

About the team 3,1 07 that New York won that battle.

[A]

And just like Atlanta, they got rolled one game, and it's like, what do I not know anything about this team? There's like, again, they're behind Oklahoma City and Denver for sure to me, but they've always played both of those teams pretty well. They're going to make a trade, and I just respect the infrastructure that they have there and the track record. But, yeah, every. Every loss is just, like, inexplicable.

[B]

They're putting up monster numbers. 1461-311221-41125, 136. Like, they're putting up monster offensive numbers. Numbers monster. So that to me, that means everyone's eating, their offense is flowing. They're doing. They're like, Anthony Edwards is excelling. I think he's added dimensions to his game. I think last postseason was the biggest indicator for Ant of like, okay, I got to get into the post. I got to be able to work my back to the basket. I got to be able. Because he saw five people staring at him when they played. OKC boxes and elbows with pressure on the ball. He had nowhere to go. And it was just like, that's just hard for anyone to work. That's why Kobe went to the post. That's why KD went to the post. That's why LeBron. That's why MJ. When you are an elite perimeter scorer, you have to give that post angle because now you can see all the defense coming. You go one on one, and then your outlets are so easy, but you still get to play one on one. One on one at the top of the key. That's deadly. Even Allen Iverson would do that. AI cut. So he could get to that one on one. Empty side of the floor, you go underneath. He could pop back. He had options, but he was getting to a clear side. Anthony Edwards likes to do his work at the top of the key. Dribble, go to work three or drive against great teams. You can't do that. And I think he's improved on that. I think he spotted that weakness. It was very glaring. And he doesn't have many. And so I think just to see the added work that he's done on the offensive end helps. Like you said, hit guys make sure everyone's eating, everyone's feeding, and then they still have that motivational defensive edge. So that is a good pick. I think they need one more. And George Clooney's. You think we need one more? We need one more.

[A]

The two seed is within striking distance for them. Also the seven seed. I just think Ant has been just making the post game has emerged as a real thing. He's making the right play on most pick and rolls. He's finding the right balance. You blitz him, he'll trust everybody else on the team, including, he's starting to trust Gobert with pocket passes. And Gobert's doing all right making plays out of that. And sometimes, like, if you. If you drop or you kind of come up to the level of the screen, sometimes he'll just blow by, like, every layer of the defense and get to the rim. And he's, like, starting to figure out those aspects of the game in a way. It's a little scary. By the way, I'm. I'm getting close to declaring it, but I want your. I'm not there yet because there's still moves maybe to be made down the line. We'll see. Given how Divincenzo has played for the Wolves. Did Minnesota win the cat trade, or is it too soon?

[B]

Don't do that.

[A]

Okay. I'm just. Why?

[B]

Because. Because I. I think that is. Is.

[A]

Did everybody. Okay, everybody won, but someone has to win.

[B]

No, that's not true. All right, Billy doesn't say it's not a good deal and let Both sides feel like they. Like, wait. Both sides feel like they. They won, right? And that's when it's a good deal. Right? It's like, who won the Atlanta, Luca, like, Trey Young trade, Right? Who won?

[A]

Mavericks. Okay.

[B]

The Mavericks won it because they went to the conference finals. They went to one NBA finals. Trae Young has a conference finals under his belt. Both players are no longer there with their original franchise.

[A]

Yeah, the Mavs. The Mavs.

[B]

The Mavs won. Let's be clear. The Mavs won that trade. The Mavs won the trade. But communicating to it, it's not as glaring as.

[A]

What?

[B]

You wouldn't compare that trade to Anthony Davis's trade.

[A]

No. By the way, I was driving in my car the other day. I was listening to sports talk radio, and I just. I literally started the car, and the first line I heard was, I've never seen something so good ruined so quickly. And I just assumed, this guy's talking about the Dallas Mavericks. Like, what else could he be talking about in all of sports? Because Anthony, he was actually talking about college. College football and the transfer portal and whining about that. But that's how bad the map situation.

[B]

Got to get rid of that, too. They got to figure that out.

[A]

All right, last question, because I kept you too long. In light of. In light of the.

[B]

In light of the questions, now we're.

[A]

Talking light of the hilarious Dennis Schroeder Luka Doncic incident, which has cost Dennis Schroder three games for attempting to strike Luca after the game, after Luca taunted him during a game.

[B]

Attempting.

[A]

I don't know. I. What. What did the press release say? I wasn't there.

[B]

I didn't see it. What did Dennis Schroeder say?

[A]

What did he say? I don't know. He said, I'm gonna beat the out of you after the game.

[B]

And he put underneath the comment, attempting.

[A]

I didn't see that. Do we have any. Do we have any physical, like, lacerations or bruises?

[D]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[B]

I'm not saying all that. First of all, I'm okay with things being done between the lines, and I'm okay if things are gone too far between the lines and you want to address them behind the lines now, either both of them have repercussions. Both of them have repercussions. So I'm okay with any sort of conflict. I don't.

[A]

You know. Well, this was my. This was my last question to you. What's your favorite unknown or little known, like, locker room hallway fight story or what's a player that you, you can answer either one of these. So favorite unknown secret locker room fight story from your career or B, a player that you actually wanted to fight. Like, I actually want to throw down against this guy. I'm so mad at him. You can pick either one.

[B]

Okay, so there's an American player that I won't, I won't say, but they were just such, they, they just, just a bitch. Just, just between the lines would be the toughest, like talk. So things that you would never say and then they would act like, off the court, like, we're cool or like, we could be cordial. It's like, no, I get what gets your game going. I get what gets your game going. But there's a man to man disrespect and I gotta choose between punching you in your face and getting suspended for eight games and losing all this money and this. And since they know you don't want to do that, it allows them to be these fake tough guys. And so I won't do it. So I'm going to go a different route here, but just let you know that there are those players that exist.

[A]

I like it.

[B]

I'm going to say one of my favorite villains and I'm going to go in a deep, deep, deep cut.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

My favorite villains of all time, Andres Noccioni. Wow. Argentina. He and I, Andres, I hope you see this because I respect you and I don't like you, but like, you're, you were funny to me because I'm crazy too. He was just such a little dirt ball. He would do all the things, all these crazy things just to try and get under your skin. Very dramatized, very good player. Obviously he was with Argentina and he was a part of that, that golden era with them. He's very good NBA player, right? But I played with Mano years later, after the Olympics and we're telling stories and he goes, he goes, yeah, One time, Andres tells me, he goes, hey, you got to watch the jump ball. You got to watch the jump ball. Between me and Jefferson, he's in Chicago and we're all lined up next to each other, right on the jump ball. He takes his forearm elbow and, you know, right into my hip. And like as soon as, because everyone looks up at the jump ball, he just, he doesn't even look at your ball.

[A]

He goes, boom.

[B]

And hits me right in my side and in my hip. Like, opening tip, opening tip. I'm talking about like this, this goes up 10 eyes, 30,000 eyes, including the people at Home. All eyes go up. He does. His eyes don't go up. My eyes are up. He just goes boom. And hits me right in my. In my, like, midsection. First second of the game. Because that's who he was. And like, he know, like, this was it. I'm also crazy. And you, you know this. And so I laugh at it. And I'm just like, okay, I'm glad we've set the tone because anything I do to you from here on out, but it made me laugh so hard that years later, Manu and I were teammates and we're kind of telling stories about how I, you know, whatever you battle. And he says that Andres called him and said, you got to see what I did to Jefferson on the start of the game. You can find the footage. I gotta find it sleuths to find the footage. Andres, I love that type of stuff. I respect it. I'm still mad about our gold medal. Congratulations to your country. But your type of dirty and annoying I found to be humorous and so salute to you. He was a very talented player, very good defender. I will give him his flowers. I'll give him his respect. Because he was going out there guarding it. Like that was back when you were a three and D guy. That's what he was. But he had the T Max, the LeBrons, the myself, the Kobes. I'm not putting myself in their class, but there was a time where I had scored 20 a game. So I'm saying he was taking all of those best wing players and navigating them. And he was a Draymond esque player. But this was before. Like, it wasn't to that point. But he was a special one. I'll give him, I'll give him that one. I'm not a dirty player. I'm a little, little shit talker. But I was like, I respect that type of dirty. Right? Because when official, do you see what he did? Like, you can't do that. What do you do?

[A]

Richard Jefferson, you're the best. Me on the jump ball, you're the best. Obviously, everyone knows they can find you on ESPN's and ABC's broadcast with Breen and legs.

[B]

Finally, on the Richard show. That's where they need to find.

[A]

That's, that's. That's the new thing. That's the new the Richard Jefferson Show. Did you. We're just calling it the Richard Show.

[B]

Just the Richard Show. Just the Richard Show. That's what we're doing. We're interviewing players. We' having fun. We're asking stories. We're, we're cracking jokes. There's no controversy involved working with the NBA, so we got some access to cool, cool footage and currently looking for a home for a place for it to live.

[A]

Well, I, I don't think you'll struggle to find one. And road tripping of course is a mainstay of the podcast space. Rj, you're the best. Go back to work, buddy.

[B]

All right, Appreciate you see.

[C]

This is pro linebacker TJ Watt and I'm back with YPB by Abercrombie for another activewear drop. My second co design collection has new shorts and tanks that keep up with all my in season workouts. And their new Restore collection is a game changer off the field too because even pro athletes like me need rest days.

[B]

Shop YPB by Abercrombie in the app.

[C]

Online and in stores because your personal best is greater than anything.

[A]

All right, let's bring in one of my favorite guests, former coach, video coordinator for the spurs and the Clippers. He's a writer, he's a podcaster, he's everywhere. Mo Takeil. How are you sir?

[C]

I'm doing well. Zach, how are you doing?

[A]

I'm doing well. I want to deep dive on the play and race a little bit for you and particularly an under the radar team that probably doesn't get enough love in the mainstream discourse. But here's where we are. We're going to talk about the Blazers who finally lost last night to the Knicks, but they've their 7 and 2 in their last nine games. Drew Holiday's back. Donovan Clingans make a little leap. Shaded sharp incrementally getting a little better shaded. I still got my soft spot for Shaden. Caleb Love, real player. Some interesting stuff happening in Portland even without Scoot. Poor Scoot. We miss you Scoot. But here's what's happening. The Blazers are 19 and 21 despite a minus 2.5 point differential. They are ninth in the West. They're very interesting team because on the one hand they owe a lottery protected pick to the Chicago Bulls for the next three seasons. It's just an endless lottery protected pick which would perhaps incentivize them to get into the lottery. On the other hand, I don't think they care about that pick that much. They clearly wanted to chase the play in last year. They are almost sniffing 500 despite injuries to their entire point guard rotation and some other issues and a whole coaching thing with Chauncey Billups to start the season. And I got news for the Blazers. I think you're making the play in almost whether you like it or not. The Grizzlies, as I talked about with Richard Jefferson, have a John Morant situation on their hands and it would not surprise me if they nudged a little bit towards maybe do we want to actually, do we want to actually make the playoffs or play in or do we want to help our draft pick and really go full in on a rebuild? Which is great news for the Clippers who are sitting in 11th and the Blazers. Also great news. The Mavericks Anthony Davis is out indefinitely with a hand injury. Start the Tanks. The Jazz lost to Charlotte BY I think 247 points over the weekend and have made it clear in back to back losses to the Mavericks and the Hornets, two teams in their vicinity in the standings that they are going to sit people and sit veterans and give people rest and have lower back stiffness and everything it takes to keep their top eight protected pick and so sitting pretty in the ninth and 10th spots potentially, if all of this does come to pass, are the Blazers and your hometown LA Clippers, Mo. That's where we are. Any thoughts on the Anthony Davis injury which we should really start with because look, I took the under on the MAVS this year 41 and a half and this, this is why he just doesn't play enough. And now they could be stuck in a situation where yes, tanking is probably the most beneficial course for them. They own their pick this year and then they do not control it for the next four straight seasons I think. So this is like a one and done shot at getting a great complimentary player for Cooper flag. On the other hand, and he now becomes, if he's out for a while and we don't know the full extent of it yet, he's seeing specialists, he might need surgery, but if he's out for months, he kind of becomes very difficult, if not impossible to trade for anything this season. Then you go into the off season, you have to ask yourself does he have less value on a one plus one like he has one year and a player option left after this year. Does he have more value because his contract is closer to expiration? But if he had been healthy this year, a team could have said, well we get him for a playoff run this year plus next year. So they could be stuck in a situation where yes, tanking good. Can't do the tanking plus asset play for Anthony Davis. I don't know what else to say, man. This is just, he just doesn't play enough games.

[C]

I think the Hawks Dodged a major bullet. I don't know how real the talk was that they might actually trade for AD after making. After trading Trey Young, but I think my first reaction when I heard that that was something, I was just like, that makes no sense. He's not going to be healthy. You. You have that problem with Kristaps Porzingis, and now you're just going to trade Chris Apps Porzingis back to Dallas and have the same problem again with AD I. I think this was a. I hate to say it this way, but it's like a quiet win for Dallas because then they, like you said, get the kind of tank just by. By happenstance with the injuries and everything like that. I feel for Ad Man. He had his 13th groin injury. You know, it's like, we can't keep having these things and think, okay, any team that trades for him even in the off season has to bake in the fact that, like, he's missing at least half the games. Like, it's just. You just have to prepare for that possibility. And then you have to work from there with when you're deciding what you're going to give up to get him. I think that's just a unfortunate spot for them. And, you know, for Dallas, it's going to work out, I think, for them this season in terms of. I think they should tank. And I love January because this is when teams start to kind of decide, okay, now we might need to start, you know, whether just trading guys or start benching guys. And let's start, like you said, start in the tanks. And I think that's what we're going to begin to see a lot, especially towards the end of January.

[A]

Look, I don't mean to pick on Anthony Davis. So a lot of these injuries are fluky. This hand injury got, like, caught trying to get around a screener and got caught in a jersey. Like, like, crap just happens. But I've always been, like, consistently since Nico got fired, I went through the entire Anthony Davis trade landscape. I named a bunch of teams and a bunch of teams that, frankly, I didn't think were good fits for him. People brought up Houston, I'm like, really? They need another big guy who is not shooting, not a shooter. Detroit, same thing. And as the injuries kept happening, I just don't think people understand the enormity of his contract. 54 million this year, 58 million next year. And then there's this idea that he's an expiring contract, but he's going to want an extension. And how are those Extension negotiations are going to go and I'm sure Rich, Paul and Clutch are, you know, talking to potentially interested teams about what that number would look like. I said this already, like, if I'm trading for Anthony Davis, there is no extension. He turns 33 in March and we're talking about an extension that would kick in potentially in two or three seasons. Like, no, just no. There's no dollar amount. I'm not doing it. You don't, you don't play enough games and you're getting older. Less talked about is the idea that he could just opt in in 27, 28 to a $63 million player option. And so like, that's a lose, lose situation for a team that trades for him. Either he's an expiring and he plays well and he can leave or he is on a one plus one and just. It's just too much money for a guy who does not play enough games. And I just never understood this idea that someone was going to like dump a load of assets onto the Mavs for Anthony Davis and now they just may be stuck, which is fine. They can tank, develop Cooper, flag, whatever, get a hopefully high draft pick. I mean, they are right now 14 and 25. They're neck and neck with the Jazz. They could easily finish with the fifth worst record in the NBA. I mean, Sacramento, New Orleans, Indiana, Washington, be prepared for the Trae Young Quad confusion to take a long time. And by the way, if that does happen, if Trae Young sits all or most of the rest of the season, I don't want to hear another word about how we did this because he's going to make our life easier for our younger players. He's going to get them easier shots. They're overburdened. We want a healthier shot diet. If that's the case, play Trey Young when he's healthy. How about that? Anyway, Mavs, that's it. Any other thoughts on the maps? No, I don't want any other thoughts. We're good. Let's talk about Portland, who just beat the Rockets twice. The Rockets, by the way. Talk about the play in. The Rockets are now in the play in at seventh. Phoenix has jumped to six. I wouldn't count on the count. Like, like the Lakers are fifth. They're a game ahead of the Rockets in the lost column. Like there's a bunch of teams that that seventh spot is going to be interesting or the race for six. But let's talk about Portland. Seven and two in their last nine games. Offense in that span has Been average and that's the biggest uptick for them. They've actually started making some shots. They are for the season, 19th, I'm sorry, 21st in offense, about expected. They cannot shoot from anywhere. They have one of the healthiest shot diets in the entire league. They take a ton of shots at the rim and a ton of threes and almost no mid range shots. And yet because they can't shoot from anywhere and they turn the ball over at the worst rate in the entire league, they are 30th in turnover rate, which comes with the territory of not having a point guard for most of the season and playing point. Denny, who's been fantastic, it should make the all star team. 21st in defense for. I'm sorry, 19th in defense for the season. Seems pretty disappointing for a team that was built to be like a ferocious switchy turnover generating machine. And they do generate a lot of turnovers. I don't know man, that surprised me because they look better than that on defense. To me, Clingan is a monster at the rim. Their defensive rebounding does fall apart when Clingan is on the bench. That's one big issue. I think this is actually a case of the offense hurting the defense and making the defense look worse than it actually is. When you're last in turnover rate and you can't make any shots, teams are running like all hell against you and getting high efficiency starts like kickstarts to their possessions.

[C]

Yeah, live ball turnovers are death. Like that's really what it is for defenses. And what happens is when they give up a live ball turnover, it's a free run at the rim. It's transitioned over and over and over again. And I think that's kind of their biggest problem in that sense. I think we would see their defensive rating go up if they ended up just cut down four turnovers, cut out four turnovers a game. Which you know for them is, is a lot but. And you know, it changes everything. It changes the complete complexion of the game and it helps them in that sense defensively and it makes the other team have to play them more in the half court where I think their defense is going to be more solid. It's chasing in transition is the biggest problem for them and that's something that they just have to find a way to fix the other side of it too, Zach, and it goes back to their offense is it's because they're such a hard driving team. And it starts with Denny, right? Like Denny drives, he drives down the lane, he leads the leagues, the league and drives per game at around 20 gets to the rim a bunch and that's great. Helps their offense a massive amount of time. They don't do a good job necessarily with the floor balance right when he drives from the top. Somebody's got to start working back to cover and transition and they tend not to do it. So it's not just turnovers but if they miss at the rim and the other team gets the rebound, it's another run at transition and I think that's something they really got to start kind of working on a little bit more and be a little bit more aware of on those drives that maybe you got to start. Somebody has to start working their way back to half court to be ready for transition defense.

[A]

It should should mention Denny Abdia, the engine of their offense and their offense is awesome when he's on the floor and bad when he's on the bench. Left the game against the Knicks yesterday with a back issue at the very end of the game. Hopefully that's not serious. If it is, could put a dent into this whole Blazers guaranteed to make the play in thing that I started out with. But he doesn't seem too concerned about it. In the post game game comments he said, I'm not really concerned. I'm a tough guy. I'm going to be all right. We'll see. What other, what other interesting developments have you seen over this nice 2 week stretch, 23 week stretch for the Blazers? What other reasons do they have to be encouraged?

[C]

I think some of the stuff I like that I'm seeing is just a lot more movement in the half court where it's not necessarily, you know, when somebody drives there's a slot cut, there's somebody there. I, I, I think it might have been Caleb Love yesterday. I forget who was driving along the baseline, but he makes a perfect slot cut, gets the pass and then gets a, a foul drawn on Jalen Brunson, you know, in the, in the second half of that game. And I think there's, there's smart stuff there in the way that they're reading the floor and when to cut and the timing of these cuts are the things that I'm really kind of enjoying in their offense and it's, it's something we're seeing again it's on drives like when somebody's driving, somebody else is cutting behind it. Oh, because that drives opening up a cutting lane and that's some of the stuff that we're seeing within their offense that their flow is, is you Know it, it.

[A]

It.

[C]

The process looks good and this is something we talked at the beginning of the season about offenses, right. And one of the things we talked about the Blazers and one of the things we complained about was it was one note and it dived right into ISO. I'm not seeing that as much. I'm seeing a little bit more of a, A, a fluid offensive flow into what they're doing and I understanding of like, okay, cool, these are the shots we want. This is how we're going to get them. And this is the. And they're continuing to do now a key thing. Make them is the next step. But that's where we're at now, where you're beginning to see it kind of develop. And I think you know to what you said also Zach no point guard almost all season. And that's a, that's a hard world to live in as a, especially as a young, youngish team. And I think that's really where it's. It's their offense is starting to struggle is. I'll be. I'm excited that Drew is coming back now and hopefully he can kind of bring a little bit more of that stuff. Although he's not like the greatest offensive running point guard, but I think it gets him in a little more sets.

[A]

I think that'll help him out a ton. Well, he was averaging eight assists a game before his injury and was playing like peak Drew Holiday and then he got injured. At the very least, looking at the numbers now, there are 117 points per 100 possessions when Denny Abdia is on the floor. That's like top 10 offense. That's totally fine, right? 98 with him on the bench. Now some of that is going to be shooting luck probably when you dive into the numbers. But 98 is like so much worse than the worst offense in the entire league that it's almost hard to fathom that they've been that bad. If you have Drew Shade and Sharp and a couple other like Jeremy Grant has been out for a while and was actually playing well for the Blazers this year and shooting pretty well. Like there's enough talent there that that number should be at least acceptable when you have a pretty good defensive infrastructure and to your point, half court defense. Portland ranks about average for the season, so a little bit better than their overall ranking. Who knows how that's being counted. But I also think Sharp, I mean I joke, I kind of say it tongue in cheek because he's one of my sort of white whales in the league. I do think he's it. He'll have games where it's just too many bad shots still. But I think his shot selection is getting better. His three is trending well. We'll see if it keeps up. His decision making I just think is better. Like there are more blow bys now, more times when he discovers like I could just go all the way to the rim and just a little bit more calm and better passing. And like last night against the Knicks he attacked a closeout, drove, got the guy behind him, hesitated, paused and he had this moment in the mid range. Like I can I have my pick between live dribble, floater or I see Rob. I think it was Rob Williams cutting for a lob. Perfect lob to Rob Williams. Just the simpler. It's not a simple play but just like to keep the machine moving. Passes are coming more often for him and Caleb Love is a guy man, he's been talk about their point guard issue. Like I'm not sure exactly positionally what he is or should be but he has really helped fill that void. He's a real guy. So Soco is pretty solid. Clingan. I still can't figure out what Clingan is particularly on offense other than a hellacious offensive rebounder. Defensively I know exactly what is he's great there. There was a stretch where he was hitting double figures in a bunch of games and making plays out of the short roll and having showing better chemistry in the pick and roll with Denny. And then there are games where he takes like six shots and four of them are threes. And I know you've worked on that shot and it's nice for it to be a threat. I don't. Some of the misses are like Scud missiles at the backboard and I don't think that any defense is too concerned about it. I'm like I wish, I wish there were just not so many threes.

[C]

I don't think anybody, any team defensively, they will live with that shot, right? Like that's the shot. You can't take away everything defensively. So when you're going into it, if I'm writing the scouting report, let's see if he makes a couple. You know, even after he makes the first one. I'm not saying let's run out at him, let's see if he makes a couple in those. Like I'm not going to stress myself about that stuff. I got to protect the paint on against this team in particular with the drive. So I think for me with clinging like I want to see a little bit more. I want to see more out of the short roll from him because you're right like he's flashed that a bit but I want to see it more consistently, you know. And I think that's the thing where that's the evolution of his game more than developing that three point shot. Because what you're going to get with Denny coming off these screens, teams are going to start doubling him. That's the pass. That's the pass Denny's got to make and then he's got to make the right read out of that and then that opens up things right because then it's shaden sharp cutting a lot off the. From the corner corner off the weak side. If, if that's where he positioned. That's an easy lob right there for a highlight dunk maybe an. And one that you have so many different little ways that you can play off of that. And I think it's going to be really important that he focuses more on that than anything else because that's where he's going to fit offensively for a team because then otherwise Zach and I, I'm not going to trust his three point shooting. I don't think it's going to ever really be a thing where defenses are going to. It's going to move the needle defensively.

[A]

I'm not giving up yet on that mode because he's had years where his catch and shoot numbers are pretty good. Like one year over 40%. I think the stroke looks good to me and the pull up confidence looks better to me. I'm not giving up on that.

[C]

I feel you on that. But in terms of like a defense, I'll give that up. Like that's the shot. I'm not going to run out to open up our team for rotations and things like that. I'll give a half hearted closeout, maybe a late close or whatnot, but I'm not going to necessarily worry about. But if he upmasters that short role, if he can kind of really create that, that opens up the whole offense for everybody. Not just his offense, everybody's. That's going to open up the game for them and add the cutting that they have coming off of the way I've been talking about it, it's going to really kind of sort of highlight this team in a different way and we'll see their offense begin to rise and then they'll be.

[B]

They'll have cleaner looks.

[A]

Speaking of closeouts that you just triggered my brain. The cornet closeout has Become famous around the league. I'm not even saying this sarcastically. The Celtics video tribute for Luke Cornett when they played the spurs on Friday or Saturday. A good win for the spurs was the longest and most emotional tribute to a eighth to tenth man.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Maybe in the history of the NBA. Not only was it the full commercial break the Celtics broadcast announced before the game. Don't flip away. We are sticking here for the Luke Cornett video tribute. And it was a hilarious video trip because he's a hilarious guy. He's. He's legit beloved in Boston in a way that, like, I knew, but it. It was like Marcus Smart had come back or something. It was unbelievable.

[C]

I was in Boston for one doc made his return and like, that was a very emotional. Like, I ran out of the video room to watch the. The. The.

[A]

The video Clippers at the time, I assume.

[C]

The Clippers. Yeah. I was with the Clippers. And that was, you know, like, that was an emotional one. It's. Luke Cornett was just as emotional. It felt like when you watch that game, like, it. It really like, like, I'll give. I'm not a video tribute guy.

[A]

I'm.

[C]

I'm a curmudgeon.

[A]

I. Oh, my God. Mo. I didn't know this about you.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I'm.

[C]

I'm. I'm a cur. I'm. I'm. You, like, have to, like, you got to re. For it to mean something. It's got to be a rare thing. And it's, you know, now it's. We literally give it to everybody. But Zach, the fact that it was so emotional for Boston, like, I give the Celtics fan credit. Like, they were so attached to this guy. It's.

[A]

It's.

[C]

It's kind of fun to watch because the fans were completely bought into all of that.

[A]

They were all in. I'm generally. I like when I see video tribute for a guy who was on the team for six months or a year and didn't really do anything, I'm like, really? We're doing. Even if you just flash like, welcome back. So and so it's like, welcome back. Does he even remember that he played for this team in the Luke Cornet one? He is a unique character and he was on a championship team and he resonated with the fans. I'm pro. I'm pro. Rewarding die hard fans who form a connection with a player with a little moment like that. All right, more on the Blazers. Just wrap it up. They have. They have had one of the hardest schedules in the league so far, so they have one of the easiest schedules remaining. That's a big deal for their play in hopes and I mentioned, you know, I get asked by a lot of executives, what does Portland want to do this year? Like what's their objective? Are they going to buy? Are they going to sell? I think the answer is almost not quite neither. I think they're just going to make, if they make a trade, it'll be a good value play. That's not really aimed at the short term or like it would be aimed, I think a little bit longer term. But it's not like they're going to do any crazy thing like sell high on any of their best players. I think if there's a good value play to be made in either direction, they'll make it. I don't think they're going to act urgently either way. And so that sort of nets out to like more or less standpad. If you can trade so and so for two seconds or whatever, you do it. I think they're more or less going to stand pat unless there's some injury related catastrophe. The other thing is, I don't know if you've noticed this mo. This is a very high free throw team on both ends of the floor. They get to the line a lot and they hack the shit out of everybody. Very quietly over the last three weeks, free throw rate has dropped, dropped by a lot. League wide. It was very high to start the season and it's now trending way down. And a couple of coaches have texted me like, is this the same thing that happened two seasons ago when despite their pleas that this didn't happen, there was clearly a league office referees meeting where they decided we're just not going to call as many fouls. Have you noticed this?

[C]

Yeah, I've, I've started to see that and, and again, I'm fine with that. Like, I think, you know, the, the free throws, sometimes we award them too easily. In the way that it goes, it hurts certain teams. Like when you talk about it with the, the Blazers, for example, with how hard they drive, especially Denny, who's averaging almost 10 free throws a game. It's, it's a good thing, right? It's constant driving to the rim, puts pressure on your defenses, forces them to actually try to defend you. And it usually leads to a foul at the rim somewhere along the ways. But I've noticed that they have slight started to kind of cut back on the fouls that they're calling and we're not getting as many which is. Is fine by me because I find free throws to be the most boring part of the game anyways. I think that we need to kind of stop rewarding offensive players. A lot of times get, get the reward for just I'm throwing my body into your chest and then going up for the, the shot or in some cases just full on foul baiting of. I'm just not even trying to shoot. I'm just trying to draw a foul. And I think that's one of those things where it's. It's frustrating for me. I'm glad it's not being rewarded. I want to see the free throw rates continue to go down.

[A]

Let's do a check in on another team that weirdly for a national game.

[C]

I want to go one more thing with Portland. Sorry, I should have told you from the beginning. I want to credit Tom Haberstroke as he brought this up on the broadcast and I went back and looked at it. This was the fastest paced team to start the year. This was a team that we were talking about with their pressing almost defensively on every possession. All that stuff that if you go month by month is dropping quite a bit. And I'll be interested to see how that continues for them because I thought pace was something for them that was a good thing. I thought the, the pressing full court more often and more, more regular was a good thing for them. Forcing other teams into turnovers and things like that. Hard to do through an eight through the course of an 82 game season. But I am noticing the slippage of it. I shouldn't say I notice. Tom alerted us of the slippage of that. And it's, it's something to pay attention to as they get going because this team is a team that has to play fast. They need to, they need to keep that up tempo.

[A]

Interesting. One other note you mentioned. Free throws are the most boring part of the game. You know what else is boring? Mo? I've said this once, I said it a month ago and it's only gotten worse since then. This is an epidemic of clock malfunctions in the NBA this season. The NBA switched over their clock equipment and stuff in the off season to like this brand new system. Maybe this is just the growing pains, but this sucks, man. Every game it's like up. The shot clock didn't start again. The shot clock. Am I watching my daughter's 10 and under basketball game at this point? Like what's happening here? We gotta clean this up. It's unwatchable. Okay, quick check in on the Lakers, I mentioned the play in race. The Lakers fans probably think, well, we're above that. We're fifth. We're 23 and 13. Well, you have a negative point differential. You're 13 and one in clutch games. That's propping your team up. You finally lost a clutch game to the Bucks thanks in part to a weird LeBron brain fart late in the game that you don't see. A bad three and then a frustration foul look like they're a game ahead of the Rockets, who are seventh. They are a half a game ahead of the Suns, who are six and not going away. Their schedule is toughened up and they have been absolutely up to it. Someone's got to finish seventh. I haven't talked about the Lakers much because we just haven't seen their team. Like, LeBron was hurt. Now Reeves is hurt, and I just want to see their team a little bit more. But it's time to. And Rui's been hurt, but it's time to talk about them a little bit because I don't know, man. Something is leaving me even colder than the point differential and the slow feet on defense that we've all talked about and the injury absences. Like, I don't like the way this team looks and I don't know if it's just age plus lack of foot speed. They're obviously in a desperate circle for some sort of rangy 3 and D wing. I don't know if they'll find one. Even Luca is putting up huge numbers. I just don't like something is not sitting well with me beyond the obvious. Like, their defense isn't very good and they're playing above their head point differential wise. Can you verbalize this for me?

[C]

Yeah. They're just an average team. That's it. It's. At the end of the day, they're just average. And that sucks when we're not used to seeing average associated with LeBron James. Actually, we're not used to seeing average really associated with Luca all that much.

[D]

You know, it's.

[C]

It's a frustrating run when you're watching this team, but it's also the center position. Look, the big move they made was getting DeAndre and off the buyout market when he got bought out in Portland and he's not even closing games. He didn't close that game against Milwaukee.

[B]

Right.

[C]

It was Jackson Hayes. Like, that was their big move where the.

[A]

With.

[C]

You know, and that's. That's a nothing burger.

[B]

Right?

[C]

Like, with what we're seeing it's, it's. They're treating it almost like a gap year, and that's how I'm kind of treating it when I'm watching them this year. And their offense is when they're fully healthy and then they have Reeves out there. Great. Their defense is God awful, right? Like, when you go watch, you know, you watch the end of that game against Milwaukee a few nights ago, right? They take a lead and then they blow it. And what happens is, is, you know, the defense targets Luca. He gets blown by the defense target and, and, and I don't think he'll be playing crunch time a lot, but Jake Laravi is in, in a possession and he. They get a switch on him and then they attack and that leads to a kick out three. Like there's all these things, these possessions where you just look at them going. Like there are too many targets for teams to attack when they're on offense. And then on the other end of the floor, it's. How many threats are you? Like, how worried are you?

[A]

You.

[C]

You're worried about Luca, you're worried about LeBron and Reeves, those three, then everybody, it's. It's three on five. You're not going to be that worried about the other guys. You'll let Marcus smart bomb away, who he'll have one game where he makes seven threes, you know, like, that's just gonna happen. Pencil it in. It might have happened already and I might have missed it, but it just pencil it in. But okay, that's like, you'll live with that. That's just where it's at. You're not going to worry about the Vanderbilts. You're not going to worry about the, the other guys. Ruri Hachimura, when he comes back, who started out well, but since LeBron got back, really struggled and never really kind of found his place in the offense, like, there's just. They're just average. To me, it's just blah. When I watch them and they are running. Yeah, that's it. It's blah. And when you watch their offense, you know, I came on here January 1st and I was saying they have to find more often the defense sucks, it's not going to get back. And I still believe that their offense has to have more movement and stuff and get away from the ISO. They won three straight games after that, getting to more of that stuff. And even the game against Milwaukee, they lost, but they were running more stuff. But at the end of the day, it's just blah. Like, there's just nothing There, that really makes me go, okay, this is how they get to the Western Conference finals. This is what they have to do.

[A]

It's funny. Luka's putting up monster numbers and belongs in the MVP conversation and is the offensive genius that he's always been. It doesn't feel as dangerous right now when he has a live dribble on the pick and roll. And I wonder if that's. And there are too many 0 pass Luka possessions and 1, the pass out is just not as dangerous as it was. And I think it's because he hasn't developed the same kind of rhythm with his rim rolling centers as he did in Dallas. And the shooting just isn't the same. And it just feels like they're trying to find the rhythm on that play to make it truly, truly dangerous. Their offensive rating with Luca and LeBron is bad. Their defense rating is bad, period. Their offensive rating with those two is bad. It may just be that they really need all three of their guys to play the mismatch game the way they want to play it and the split cut game and all that stuff. A couple other blah. You said blah. They put no pressure on the rim. They become a slow paced team. They don't get to the rim, they don't get offensive rebounds. The one thing that's really propping them up is for the 19,000th year in a row they're first at free throw rate because they just get to the line all the time. Defensively they might be getting a little unluckily with opponent jump shooting, but not much. I mean they're just, they're just not something. Is just. They feel like a team that really needs the all star break to come soon. They look very slow and you know, we'll see what they do. But you said the phrase gap year. I've said this before like this was never intended. Luka Doncic fell into their laps. No matter, no matter how they want to spin the genius of acquiring him. This thing fell into their laps. And they had one kind of team that was designed one way and then they lucked into a player who didn't have a team designed optimally around him. And eventually they'll have to retool and retool and retool. But it was always going to take more than a calendar year to do that. Particularly when Your other top three player, second best player, whatever, is 41 years old and has sciatica and arthritis or something, where you missed a game with an arthritic something or other. I want to say something about Ayton because I told you before the season this would work. And I said it's going to work. And I said, I don't mean dominating, I don't mean all star game, I mean 16 and 8, solid defense, finish at the rim. He's averaging 14 and 8 and shooting 68%. And I'm here to tell you that despite the fact that it sounds like he's hitting the benchmarks that I assigned to, it works status, it ain't working. Defensively, he hasn't been good enough. Offensively, there are too many nights where he's at 8.5 rebound afterthought. And I just like, how is it possible that in the eighth year since he was picked by the Phoenix Suns over Luka Doncic that a guy who came into the league as a jack of all trades, master of none on offense, a guy who like, well, he's got a little bit of a jumper, some elbow passing game, he's a rim roller, maybe he can stretch A3, maybe can become a dive man, maybe become a facilitator. How is it possible that a 19 year old jack of all trades, master of none, is now a 27 year old Jack of all trades, master of none. He hasn't gotten better at a single part of his offensive game. He's not a better rim runner than he was five years ago. He's not a better shooter than he was five years ago. He's not a better passer than he was five years ago. He's not a better screener than he was five years ago. He's not a better post player than he was five years ago. It's so disappointing that this guy who looked like this lump of clay that a team could mold any way they wanted to, is just a lump of clay at the end offensively. And he's been fine for them, like for the money, me for the contract, it's fine. He's, yeah, he'll have games, he'll go for 20 and 11 and finish a bunch of lob dunks and all that. It's just not, it's just not enough. Despite the numbers look great. The numbers are overinflating. What he's doing for their team.

[C]

Yeah, I'm not a very big Ayton fan. I think, you know, this is one of those guys. It's, it's I, it's funny, when the Lakers signed him, I just threw my hands up in the air like, now I gotta watch this guy, guy. It's, it's I'M not because of those things, Zach, because he has all of that potential. I saw it in Phoenix. He had a ton of potential. Never plays with force. Loves to be able to get it and then kind of be near the rim and then go towards a jump hook instead of like trying to go dunk the ball. And he might not dunk it every time, but you might get fouled. You might, you might put yourself in a, your team in a different position, but it's, it's, it's the lack of force, it's a lack of drive. Sometimes times with him, I, I don't understand that how you just lined out over the past five years. He's not improved at all. And it's frustrating in that sense. You got all the way to the finals and that didn't ignite a switch in him, you know.

[A]

Still, despite the fact that he's getting spoon fed by two of the greatest pick and roll distributors of all time, he's still averaging 1.5 free throws per game and shooting a career worst 59 on free throws by the way. So that's got him worse somehow. And you mentioned Vanderbilt. You know, they're now try to repair their defense. They're playing Vanderbilt more and we're like years into this where in the regular season it'll have moments but Vanderbilt plus a true center, it's just not going to work offensively well enough and you're going to end up yanking him off the floor anyway. Look, I'm just saying right now, buckle up Lakers fans because they were up to second and they're still only a game out of second in the loss column. But they're also a game ahead of seventh in the loss column. This is going to be a fight for your life to stay out of the play in tournament yet again. Mota Kill, where can we find you promote your stuff.

[C]

But I have one, I have one thing I wanted to bring up to you and it's a little bit not in the playing tournament. I've been thinking a lot about the Oklahoma City Thunder and I want to run this by you real quickly.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

In terms of movies, I've been thinking about them and I wonder if are they Drago from Rocky 4 When Rocky finally cuts him and the announcers are apoplectic going the Russians cut and it's a bad cut. All that is that was the spurs finally kind of opened it up and everybody has now seen okay the Thunder are aren't as invincible as they seem. Or are they actually Rocky from Rocky 3 and the spurs are Clubber laying and they've gone. So you know, they, you know, that's kind of their white whale. They've, they're now at that point after Rocky loses, you know, to Clubber laying, feeling completely lost the confidence. I don't think they've lost confidence, but they've lost themselves a little bit. I listened to the Jalen Williams post game a few games ago where he was kind of talking about like, yeah, we've lost some games and trying to figure this stuff out. Like, I know he's dealing with the wristing, but like is, are they Rocky from Rocky 3 and the spurs are Clubber Lane or are they Drago? And now the league kind of sees it going like maybe this team isn't as invincible as we thought they were when they went 24 and 1. I know all the shooting and all that stuff and the numbers and everything has, has changed for them. I just, when I think about it in movies, I waffle back and forth with them of like, I don't know which one they are.

[A]

I think they're closer to Drago, but if Drago could still beat Rocky by split decision at the end instead of getting knocked out and losing. I do think the offensive vulnerability in the half court has always been there and it took a three point collapse for it to really show itself. And that will write itself. Hartenstein, I've said over and over again is more important to their offense than their defense. The offensive rebounding, the second chance points, the free throws, he draws, his passing. I think they miss him a lot on offense. But look there. There were always stretches with this team where like the Wallace, Caruso, Dort, whoever wing, Aaron Wiggins, Isaiah Joe was ice cold until last night against the Heat when they just don't make enough shots and the offense kind of bogs down a little bit. And it's been a little boggy in the past couple of weeks. We'll see when they get healthy. Like Hardenstein comes back and Caruso has been in out of the lineup as always. Jalen Williams, big Jalen Williams just came back. Wing Jalen Williams is sort of finding himself still after dealing with the risk stuff. They'll hit a stretch again where they look like the Capital T Thunder, but I never thought they were invincible. Invincible. I've always said I think Denver could absolutely beat them in a playoff series. Even though Thunder versus the field I think became a legit discussion, particularly when Aaron Gordon's injuries just kept popping up. They're still the favorites, but I think I'm going closer to Drago. But Drago wins by survives and wins by split decision at the end of Rocky 4. And I don't know if the Cold war continues in that scenario or if we still still all Rocky doesn't get the game change.

[C]

Yeah, he doesn't get to give the speech at the end of that stuff. Let me last question. I know we would you say now after watching this, the, the, the Thunder, do you feel more that like another team besides Denver can beat them? Can Houston? Can San Antonio after seeing what's done and we know what San Antonio has done to them. That's regular season by the way. It changes come playoff time. How that, that you know, when game plans kind of become more materialized and more in depth. But do you feel like it's or is it still just you really feel confident? It's just either Denver can beat them or, or can you add other teams to that field?

[A]

I mean, I think clearly San Antonio, although they haven't lit the world on Fire 5 and 5 in their last 10 games since the Thunder sweep. Wemby obviously injured in and out of the lineup, coming off the bench for a bit. Vassell's injured, injured. Clearly they have something with all the guards and all the ball handling and the giant in the middle that troubles them. I don't think just as a matchup, I don't think you can, you can sleep on that. And I, I think Minnesota is really good and that they're going to make a trade. So I think it goes a little bit beyond Denver. Houston's in a little bit of a rut and right now they got to find themselves. Mota Keel offside, NBA tv. What else? Double Dribble.

[C]

Double Dribble podcast with Jared Dubin. That's, that's where you can find all my stuff if you follow me on socials.

[A]

All of them.

[C]

I'm ridiculously online too much if you follow me on all that stuff. You'll see my, my work when I, when I put stuff out.

[A]

Motikil thank you sir. Thank you for having me.

[B]

New Year, same extra value meals at McDonald's.

[D]

So now get two snack wraps plus fries and a medium soft drink for just $8 for a limited time only.

[A]

Prices and participation may vary.

[B]

Prices may be higher in Hawaii, Alaska and California. And for delivery.

[A]

All right. I'm super excited to be joined by one of the breakout players of the NBA season. 1/2 of what is becoming one of the deadliest pick and roll accommodations in the league. Way out in Utah. K. George how are you, sir?

[D]

How you doing?

[A]

I'm hanging in. Congratulations on a great start to your season, man. You are rolling.

[D]

No, I appreciate it. Appreciate you having me, man.

[A]

I want to talk about your journey a little bit, and I want to start at pre draft. You worked out for the Jazz, and I heard some details from that workout. Some funny, some serious. First I heard Danny Ainge was really heavily involved and you guys sort of bonded right off the bat. What was that like? What was your first impression of Danny?

[D]

Danny, my first impression. I mean, he was cool, like, he regular. I mean, obviously I knew knew of him just because of the basketball world and what he's done. But, you know, they took me to a little nice restaurant when I got here and he told me that he wasn't going to eat because he was going to eat Chipotle. So I'm like, all right, that's Danny. From then on, I kind of knew he was like, oh, you regular, you one of us?

[A]

And he told you right off the bat, we think you are a point guard. We want to put the ball in your hands if we draft you. Is that correct?

[D]

Yeah, for sure. He said that right away, as soon as I got here. He said he seen me as a point guard, but he also see that I was. He also said that he sees me as a versatile guard, being able to play off the ball too. But, you know, obviously when I got here, I was grateful for the opportunity that they put the ball in my hands and let me go through some mistakes. But he never ever told me once that he was going to take the ball out. And.

[A]

And what was your reaction to that? Because, you know, I talked to. I talked to your guy Foray for a little while to learn a little bit more about you, and he said, you know, you did your senior year of high school at img, obviously one year at Baylor, that there had been times in both those places where the idea of you playing point guard or having the ball in your hands where as a distributor was brought up and you didn't love the idea. Is that right?

[D]

I mean, yeah, I've played off the ball basically my whole entire life. I've always played with a. Another person that could handle the ball as well. But I mean, yeah, once our. My senior year point guard went down, Jane Bradley and I kind of had to figure it out, figure out how to make the reads, figure out how to, you know, get the guys in rhythm while I'm still trying to get myself in rhythm. But, yeah, ever since, like I said, I've been playing the position every year. It's just gotten better for me.

[A]

Me. Did Will Hardy get on the floor with you during that pre draft workout? Because he's one of the young coaches, like, he can get out there and play with you guys.

[D]

No, he. He didn't get out there, but he was there. He was there though. They had the video guys with the arms and all that.

[A]

Oh, what with it? Like with the stick arms? What arms?

[D]

Yeah, with the stick arms? Yeah, with the two arms, yeah.

[A]

One thing Will did tell me from the workout is you got to the end of it and they wanted you to do a conditioning drill, a three minute run where you go baseline to baseline, touch it as many times as you. And they said, you know what, Keonte? It's a hard drill, man. Whatever music you want, you pick the music. Do you remember what you said?

[D]

Yeah, it says, I need some gospel music. I need to band above for this one.

[A]

Will told me, he said, I need some God. Put on some gospel music. I need Jesus. And Will thought that for some reason Will like, that really stuck with him. He's like, this is kind of a funny down to earth guy. I like this guy. This could be my kind of guy. That meant something to him.

[D]

Oh, yeah, that moment, especially with the altitude. But it was like, mom, I don't even know. I ain't really worked out that much altitude crazy up here especially. I've never played altitude ever.

[A]

So you get to the draft and you've identified you and your team have identified Utah as the place you want to go. They have the ninth pick that they end up using on Taylor Hendricks, your current teammate. And then they have the 16th pick, which is you. And right above you are three consecutive shooting guards. Toronto takes Grady Dick, New Orleans takes Jordan Hawkins, and Atlanta takes Kobe Buffkin. And I know you wanted to go to Utah. Everyone kind of knew those three teams were picking guards. Utah doesn't take you ninth. Are you sweating through the rest of the lottery? Like, and when do you find out? Like, all right, like when. When Buffkin is announced, do you breathe a sigh of relief?

[D]

So the morning of, obviously, me and my team, we talked. Obviously, you know, my agent told me that his phone was going to ring at 9. Just coming from Utah and kind of see what happened from there. But it's actually crazy, man. We went through the whole draft and he kind of named everybody from top to bottom. Obviously, maybe, you know, Toronto maybe. I feel like I worked out good there. Same thing with New Orleans, but obviously I think if I Can remember correctly. I think the phone rang at 15 for Atlanta. I don't know what my agent said, but obviously me and Bufkin did pre draft together a little bit. He ended up going 15. And once Utah had the 16 pill, I kind of knew that I was going to Utah. But obviously from the morning, us talking about what team I wanted to get to, and I knew I wanted to get to Utah right away, I felt like I fit. Felt like they developed, you know, multiple guards. Even talking to my hometown trainer, he told me, but even before I started pre draft, he was like, man, you might need to go to Utah. And I thought he was crazy. But going through the process and, you know, talking to my team and figuring out, you know, what would be the best situation for me, for me to grow, it's crazy that he was actually right. So, you know, I'm grateful that they believed in me, and I'm glad that I failed to 16 and, you know, I couldn't ask for anything more.

[A]

You have a good. You have a very good rookie year, and then your second year goes sideways a little bit. Midway through the year, Will Hardy decides. You know what, Keonte, we're bringing you off the bench. It's. It's not permanent. It's not long term. It's not even like, maybe not even a demotion. Like, you'll play just as many minutes, you'll play crunch time. But we think it's best for the team. We're going to start Isaiah Collier, and nobody, no matter if you play more minutes or play crunch time, like, nobody really wants that to happen to them. And I heard from your team, like, there were a lot of conversations, like, pretty raw conversations, like, does this mean they're giving up on me? You know, how do I react to this? So how hard. How hard was it for you and how long did it take you to just sort of be like, you know what? This is just going to be what it is, and I'm going to make the best of it.

[D]

I mean, yeah, obviously, the human nature of it, obviously you don't know what's going on. But like you said, I'm grateful for the team that I have around me. They was honest. I mean, after every game, I mean, completely honest. I'm just calling, just trying to figure out, you know, how I need to play, what I need to do on the court, off the court, like, just anything. But then, you know, obviously sitting back at home and starting to realize and having conversations, like, it's just about being professional. Be professional at the End of the day, like you said, you might play the same amount of minutes, you still might play at the end of the game. But like you said, it's just about being professional, trying to be the same guy every single day when I'm coming into the facility. Obviously, that was hard to, you know, navigate as a young guy, but when you go through things like that, it kind of helps you, you know, gain some more appreciation for the game. Appreciation for being, you know, in the NBA, it's not that many of us, not a lot of people get opportunity to play. So for me, it was just about understanding. Like, you know, obviously I'm coming off the bench, but, like, there's just worse things in life that's going on for a lot of people. So I just had to make the most of it. And, you know, it gave me opportunity to show, like, okay, can play good. When I start. I come off the bench, I can still be productive. So, like I said, that comes with the professionalism piece.

[A]

One thing everyone agreed on was he was supportive of Isaiah Collier, and very loudly the entire time that there was no. Like, well, this guy took my spot. You want to lift him up, which is a. Which is the. What you want to see from any teammate. But if Foray did tell me there was one game I was watching, and he will called him up to check in the game, and he kind of, like, loped to the scores table, a little sulky, a little pouty. And I had to call him after the game, be like, come on, man. Like, get your posture right. Get your spirit right. Do you remember that call?

[D]

Yeah, yeah. He. He told me, like, when you. When you get called into the game, like, maybe run to the scores table or something, like, just do something to get you. Get you ready to go into the game. So when he called me out on something, something small like that, I kind of knew, like, all right, it's kind of time to fix it. And like I said, be professional. So I'm grateful for, you know, for Ray.

[A]

And so as you come out of the gates this season making a huge Leap on fire, 24 points a game, everyone starts to write the story of, like, Keonte George is making a big leap. What were the turning points? What happened? And a common ingredient in all these stories is the end of season meetings last season, particularly with Will Hardy, who you are super close with now, from what I've been told and how sort of like, raw and unfiltered those meetings were. And I asked somebody, I was like, well, what does that mean? Like, what is the coach actually saying to Chianti and what is Keonte saying to the coach? Like, what's raw? So it's like, you got to get better, you got to work harder. And somebody told me raw in this case was Will Hardy saying to Keonte, I got to be honest with you, man, if the front office came to me right now and said, should we bet the farm on this guy with a big long term extension? I would probably say no. And he said that to your face. Do you remember that? Is that right?

[D]

Yeah, man. Will. He said a lot more than just that. But you know, man, he. Everybody, obviously everybody talks and Will got to talk and you know, he didn't take his eyes off me. Like, I could see him turn a little red. He was basically telling me like, it's time, man. Like, you know, it was my second year in the league. Like, I'm not a rookie no more. Like he couldn't stress that enough. Like, you're not a rookie anymore. Like he know how the season goes. Like he knows you need to do on a day to day basis. Like, like, it's time, man. Like, it was almost like a big brother conversation. Like, you know, I got no time to deal. Whatever you got going, like, you know, it's time for you to. It was time for him to like, really be able to trust me. I think that's what I got out of it for him to see my day to day work, see how I work in the summer, see how I approach games right now. We got this thing going where he just talks about press being present in a moment, being present, like just not dropping your head, stuff like that, just simple stuff. But yeah, he's. Will is. He was real blind. I mean, he's one of the first people, you know, to really coach me and to not be scared to, you know, say the real. Obviously you got guys that can tell you the best in the world, you're in the NBA. But, you know, so he kind of helped me understand, like, what type of player do you want to be? What do you want to get out of the game? So he really helped me kind of sit back, look in the mirror and really understand what type of player I wanted to be. What did I want to. What did I want not only for myself, but, you know, for the organization, for the Jazz as well.

[A]

So when he says something like that about the extension, do you say anything bad? Are you just listening? Like, did you respond at all? Like, no, I'm going to prove you wrong or I'm Going to live up to I'm going to meet these expectations or did you just take it in and like then you spent the whole summer in Salt Lake working on all the key parts of your game. But in that moment, is it like a shock to hear that or do you say anything back?

[D]

Man, I, I think I knew will good enough where it, it wasn't time for me to say nothing back. I walked out the interview, man, I walked straight to my car. I ain't talking to nobody. Like I, I just had to kind of. That was, that was a real blunt. That was one of my real, honestly first, you know, real blunt moments of dealing with, with confrontation and all those things. So. But like I said, it shaped me for sure into the player that I wanted to become. But it's just one of those things where, you know, obviously I didn't think that I needed that, but you know, for the greater good for my game and all aspects of life. Like we all understood that that was something that I needed and he knew that I would receive it in the right way and not take it the wrong way and not. It's done wonder for my game.

[A]

It's funny, you know the stuff about point guard kind of being thrust on you late in your. Not late, but like in the NBA basically. I don't watch much college ball, so I get my first real deep dives on, on players when they get to the NBA. Your passing jumped off the screen like right away. You're throwing these like lefty one handed cross court or pocket passes, laser beams to the guys rolling to the rim. Did you find that the pick and roll ready. I don't want to say came easily, but you had it more of a natural feel for like being a lead guard and a distributor than you, than you maybe thought you would have.

[D]

Yeah, at Baylor they, they did a good job teaching us, you know, some of the pick and roll reads. We worked on the reads every single, every single day. You know, my trainer back home, we, we worked on, I mean, bouncing bounce passes through the cones, left hand, right hand. So I think just those things I worked on so much early on that it kind of came natural when it came to making the pass. I think through film now and watching, you know, all these different, you know, guards play, it helps me now when I get into the game and I feel like now the reads are all the same, you know, whether it's pick and roll, low man, you read the low man. If X Men doesn't drop, then you hit the corner and you may play through the field, behind. But, but, you know, just keeping it simple. It's really helped me expand into, you know, not turning the ball over as much and being able to make the simple play, not trying to make the home run.

[A]

To me, the almost as big a leap, if not bigger, has been on defense. Tell me about that. Because you, you are like, really competing defensively this year. You're in the right place at the right time. And I, I, I'm betting that will identify that as an area. Like, you got to get better at that. So, like, offense, you can drill, you can watch film. Like, what did you do to get better on defense by such a large degree?

[D]

Yeah, I mean, just trusting my, my PD Chris Jones, and he, he, he was completely honest with me as well, and he knew that the offensive piece was going to take care of itself. Obviously we needed to, you know, clean the shot diet up, knowing what spots I wanted to get to, whether it's in the floor of the game or down the stretch, just working on those things, the efficiency part, obviously, so that came with the shot diet. But he had me, you know, starting off workouts, you know, sliding back and forth from lane line to lane line and closing out, picking up full court, working on different, you know, defensive techniques in certain situations. So, but I think just being able to, you know, receive that and have no pushback, man, it's, I think it speaks on, on our relationship between one another. And I think that's why I'm able to, you know, kind of, like you said, take that leap on that end and, you know, got some room for, a lot of room for improvement. But as far as, you know, comparing from last year to this year, I mean, just a compete level that we would have, want to, you know, end of the day we want to win. So, you know, on that end, we got to compete every single night.

[A]

Have you and Lowry Markkanen ever discussed becoming the new age? John Stockton and Karl Malone, Is that ever. So have those names been thrown at you?

[D]

Nah, we ain't really looked at it like that. Obviously, that was a phenomenal duo. But nah, me and Larry had a talk before the season, obviously came back from fiba, went to his house, we had a great conversation, got into Shawna, did all that. But it kind of helped us understand not only, you know, the goals that he had for himself, but, you know, what we wanted our team to look like and feel like throughout the whole year. Me and Larry, along with some other guys on the team, we've been through a lot as far as what the season looked like and the ups and downs.

[B]

So.

[D]

I think it was good that we had a conversation between one another and really understood the common goal that we wanted for each other. And now when we're out there on the floor, our dialogue is always clear and we know we want from, you know, one another.

[A]

Yeah. I asked Will earlier today, like, you've made a bunch of big shots this year. Chicago, Orlando, Buzz, almost buzzer beater kind of shots, game winning kind of shots. I asked Will, like, do you remember anything from the huddles or drawn up plays? And he said honestly, like, those two guys have gotten so good together that sometimes I just say, you know what, just run your two man game in the middle of the floor. It'll figure itself out. I'm getting out of the way. Like that's a pretty high level of trust, right?

[D]

Nah. Yeah, obviously we got, we got some things to really talk about still. But as far as, you know, me and Lowry, like, I, I know where he wants the ball, time and space, you know, know where he wants the ball when it comes to shooting. So trying to pass it to his shoeing pocket, things like that. Just being that, you know, precise on, on things that we do on the late game. And I mean, Larry, he, he, I've said it before, he empowers me down the stretch all the time. No matter if I'm, you know, making shots or missing shots, he going empower me the same way every single time. So when you got that, a guy like that that's been killing all year, you know, saying that to you and being behind you like that, it obviously gives me a boost of energy and some confidence for sure. So to go out there, trust my work and knowing that, that at the end of the day we, we ride or dine with, you know, us too.

[A]

Will Hardy hosted a burger cookoff at his house over the summer for some of the young players on the team. I was told you did well, but you did not win. Walter Clayton Jr. Won. You seem, you see, I can tell by your face. You seem like you were wronged by this. You're bitter about it.

[D]

Yeah, we was completely wrong.

[A]

What you, what did you do? What was your technique? What do you, what do you got for me?

[D]

I made a smash burger like nobody else made a smash burger. Walker put avocados and all that with a sesame seed. No, keep it. Classic cheese. Been into the burger fire, Walt putting like barbecue sauce and onion rings. Like, I put no sauce on mine. Still flavor he needed. Like, Will didn't take that into account, man. Like, we, we had no space. Like, he didn't take nothing into account.

[A]

I heard about that. I heard one of the players did so horribly that his burger was, like, eating, quote, onions and salt being poured down your throat. Would you like to reveal which player that was?

[D]

Taylor.

[A]

Taylor Hendricks. Total fail. Did you try it?

[D]

No, no, no, I couldn't. Walker tried it, though. Said it was horrific.

[A]

Well, maybe next year you can. You can try to get revenge. You speaking of food you lost, I was reading an article. You lost 25 pounds between, like, I don't know if it was high school and college. High school at the NBA. That whole time, I never would have looked at you and thought he ever needed to lose £25, ever. How did you do it? Like, what. What habits did you change? What's. What's out of the diet? What's into the diet? Or is it just. No. What do you got?

[B]

Got.

[D]

I had to stop eating past 10 o' clock to start it off.

[A]

Okay.

[D]

Obviously, the clean eating, trying to eat cleaner. And then I was just. Man, I was just on the treadmill, man. Running, running, trying to run. Trying to burn some fat. My E habits were terrible at ig. E habits kind of got even worse at Baylor. And then towards pre draft, started really lock in. Had to. This is no diss to anybody, but whenever they call me a thicker Eric Gore, that's when I kind of knew, like, all right, bro. Like, I ain't really like that one.

[A]

So was that in the scouting reports at some point?

[D]

Yeah, I seen it on my phone one time. So I was like, all right, I gotta really lock in. But yeah, E habits chains was running, lifting, just doing the same stuff. Just honestly, just being real intentional as far as, you know, in the kitchen.

[A]

I lost about 10 pounds in the last two months. And people have asked me, like, what'd you do? What'd you change differently? And I say, I discovered a revolutionary dieting technique. Eating less food. Like, I don't need to eat. I don't need to eat like a hog. I don't need to eat like a whole bag of pretzels with my sandwich. I don't need that. It's like, maybe I can patent this as a diet plan service. You mentioned you guys want to win. You're obviously aware of this and you're in an awkward spot. Everybody on the Jazz is an awkward spot where they have to sort of talk around this. But you, the Jazz, owe this pick to the Thunder. Top eight protected, meaning the Jazz. Keep it. If it's one of the first eight picks in the draft, and they lose it to the Thunder. If you guys win too many games and end up picking 10th, 11th, making the playoffs, whatever, is that, like, discussed by the players openly? Like, man, I don't like this. This is a funny situation. Or like, oh, fee sat tonight, like, do. Or do you just ignore it and just whoever plays, we go out to win.

[D]

Oh, yeah, Obviously, we understand the business. You know, social media and things like that. Like, they put it out there, like we know what's going on. But I think when we out there, man, it's we playing for our lives. And so if you're out there, Will says it all the time. When young guys come into this league, the main thing that they want is opportunity. So that's. That's what we getting here. No matter who sits or, like, whoever's dealing with injuries or, you know, if guys are dealing with stuff, I mean, when you get the chance to play, we got to go out there and fight. So when we put a group out there, we plan to win. So, you know, we love the game, so we don't really think about, I guess, the business of what's going on. We leave that to, you know, what they're supposed to do. You know, that's their job, and we have a job to do as well. They picked us to be on this team. So at the end of the day, Utah is across our chest. So we got an organization to represent. This organization, you know, drafted me and believed in me, so I got nothing but. Nothing but respect. So the respect that I can show for this team is to go out there and play hard. And same thing for our team. The guys that's playing you, playing hard, that shows that you continue to respect the Jazz. And, you know, if you're in. If you're a competitor, you know, the main. The main goal is to win.

[A]

Well, I mean, look, it shows through on the court. You guys are super fun to watch. You're feisty, you're competitive. You almost beat the Thunder on the road the other night. And you do have Utah across your chest. And you have the blue. The purple, blue, whatever. Mountain jerseys back. Are we happy about this? That all these are back and the black and neon is gone?

[D]

I would say this. I like the new jerseys. I like the new jerseys. I like what we got going on, especially the ones we wore last night, like the gray. The light blue white ones.

[A]

Those are nice. Those are really nice. All right, two more quick questions. I'll let you go. Best piece of Advice you have gotten from proud veteran Kevin Love this season. In.

[D]

Talking a lot, Man, I. I wouldn't say he probably hasn't gave. Given me.

[A]

He's.

[D]

He obviously dropped some gems, but I think he just. When we had the chance to talk after practice about the mental health stuff, I focused on that a lot this summer and throughout the year. I mean, and we was just kind of talking about certain things. And I think that that conversation kind of sits heavy on my heart between us two, because obviously, you know, he's outspoken about those things and, you know, he's done a lot of great things in this league. I mean, he's influenced his league a lot, been a part of great team. So I never thought in any given world that I'll be able to speak to Kevin Love about anything. I mean, when we go to dinner, like, everybody knows him. We can't go anywhere with him without taking a picture. Like, so the influence that he has, not only with the basketball world, but outside of the basketball world, man, and just being able to talk about that certain, you know, that the mental health stuff, man, it was big time for me.

[A]

Opposing player that you've had to guard that you come away that you came away thinking like, whoa, this guy's way shiftier, way, way harder to guard than I thought. I know you're one of the guys who doesn't like to give opposing, but give me one guy, you're like, wow, man, that was like, this guy's got more to his game than I thought.

[D]

Well, okay, well, you put it like that. I was going to say Kyrie, because they ran the same play on me twice my rookie year, and it was pretty easy. But I'd probably say if you don't say Kyrie, because obviously we all know he got everything to his game on that end. I'll probably say C.J. mcCollum. We played. We played in New Orleans. It was a tough game. We were supposed to win. And then, you know, he kind of got to his spots. You know, like you said, the shifty piece. I. I thought he was. Thought he was OG Man. CJ got some games still.

[A]

All right, last one. Give me just one thing. We're about halfway through the season. It's been a huge success for you. What's one thing you're focused on working on? Whether team level, individual level, like the next 10, 15 games. Like, I want to dial in on this part of my game or this part of our team's to going game.

[D]

Yeah, I'll probably just say it's you know obviously our compete level just staying where it is but I think just our connectiveness on a defensive end if Flowman goes tag other guy has a draw up like just getting better at that, doing my job on, on that end. Our offense is, I mean we're, we're playing great. I mean I think we're moving the ball really well. Guys are, are making shots, getting to the pace. Everybody's doing their job on that end. So as a team I just want to make sure, you know we making sure that we doing what we supposed to do on that end. I mean past two games now we've showed that we have the ability to do so. So I just want to make sure that we're doing that on a day to day basis making sure our habits are staying intact, making sure shoot arounds, practice, make sure those are looking sharp because we don't initially you don't get time to really be together and talk things out and practice. So when we get those moments, making sure that we stay in straight start.

[A]

Counte George just an awesome third season most improved player conversation belongs. You know you gotta be, you gotta be mentioned in the all star conversation. That's where we are now with Keante George. Thanks for your time continued good luck and I'll see you down the road.

[D]

Appreciate you Zach.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

All right, that's it for today. Thanks to the great Richard Jefferson, Mo Takeil, Keante George, thanks to Billy, Mike and Jonathan on production. Thanks to all of you. You for listening to and or watching the Zach Low show. We'll be back later this week. Must be 21 or over in president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President D.C. kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org and Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York.