The Zach Lowe Show – "Jaren Jackson Jr. Out Indefinitely and a Look at the Tanking Crisis"

February 12, 2026 – With Fred Katz

Overview

In this episode, Zach Lowe (The Ringer) is joined by Fred Katz (The Athletic, Cats and Shoot podcast) for a wide-ranging, energetic discussion about the NBA’s latest news, the ongoing tanking crisis, trade deadline fallout, and the implications of Jaren Jackson Jr.’s season-ending injury for the Utah Jazz. Other conversation threads include brawls and suspensions, All-Star Game selections, returning stars, and how radical fixes like the “draft wheel” could reshape the NBA.

Major Topics & Timestamps

1. Pistons-Hornets Brawl and Suspensions [02:46–12:09]

Breakdown of the Pistons-Hornets melee, its rare intensity, and the resulting suspensions.
- Isaiah Stewart: 7 games
- Miles Bridges, Moussa Diabate: 4 games each
- Jalen Duren: 2 games (context: minimal involvement after escalation)
Commentary on Detroit’s competitive culture and the fine line between intensity and hurting your own team.

Notable Quote (Fred Katz, 04:15):
“Moussa Diabate's just endless pursuit was unbelievable. Like in a league where everybody says nobody wants to fight, that actually kind of seemed like a brawl where multiple people wanted to fight.”
Reflection on fight culture in the NBA, young teams building competitive environments, and brief mention of humorous moments, e.g., a security guard’s failed Van Gundy tackle.

2. Jason Tatum’s Impending Return & the Celtics’ Adaptation [12:22–21:55]

Tatum practiced 5-on-5 with the Maine Celtics – return likely this season.
Discussion of Boston’s surprising 35–19 record without Tatum and whether his return could disrupt team chemistry.
Lowe and Katz argue Tatum is uniquely non-disruptive for a superstar—praising his self-awareness and team-first mentality.

Notable Quote (Fred Katz, 14:41):
“Amongst like top 10 players, top 12 players, I think there’s an argument to be made that Tatum is like the least disruptive superstar from a skill set perspective of any of those guys.”
Analysis that Tatum, even at 80%, would be the “best role player in the NBA.”

3. Joel Embiid’s Injury – Implications for the Sixers [21:55–23:30]

Embiid out until after All-Star break with knee soreness; no panic but high alert as Sixers slip in standings.
Acknowledgement of Embiid’s resurgence and Philly’s reliance on him.

4. All-Star Game: Injury Replacements & Selection Surprises [23:35–30:46]

Reaction to Brandon Ingram replacing Steph Curry as All-Star, and the process’ apparent randomness.
List of players Lowe and Katz would have chosen over Ingram (Harden, Randle, Bam Adebayo, Mobley, Porter Jr., Derrick White, etc.).
Later, De’Aaron Fox replaces Giannis, further confusing the selection mechanics.

Notable Quote (Zach Lowe, 26:10):
“I was like borderline shocked that this was the choice.”

5. Phoenix Suns Lineup Dilemma & Role of Jalen Green [29:27–32:44]

Breakdown of Suns’ starting lineup internal battle: who starts, how to integrate returning players like Jalen Green vs. Grayson Allen.
Commentary on Dylan Brooks’ technical fouls and evolving offensive role.

Notable Quote (Fred Katz, 30:47):
“Jalen Green is one of those guys – unbelievably talented but... disruptive to your ecosystem. And right now Phoenix has this thing that is working for them.”

6. Miami Heat’s Frontcourt Experimentations [32:44–34:36]

Zach’s ongoing obsession: The Bam Adebayo + Khalil Ware pairing, recently revived despite earlier tension.
Kaz Yakachunas (Heat) emerging as another Heat developmental success.

7. Jaren Jackson Jr.'s Injury, Jazz Tanking, and Big Picture Tanking Woes [34:36–58:29]

Jaren Jackson Jr. Out – The Details [34:36–38:06]

Medical explanation (PVNS, a benign growth), context for the timing, and some tongue-in-cheek skepticism about tanking motivations.

Notable Quote (Zach Lowe, 35:24):
“Did I text somebody that PVNS actually stands for player violating a nasty strategy? Yes, I did. Like, i.e., Jaren Jackson Jr. is too good for the Jazz who want to tank. All tongue in cheek.”
Analysis of JJJ’s fit with the Jazz (small sample, but promising), special note on Markkanen’s defensive assignment challenges if JJJ is at PF.

Tanking: How Bad It’s Become and Is It Fixable? [38:06–58:29]

Discussion on league-wide tanking “crisis,” mentioning Jazz, Wizards, Pacers, Mavericks, Grizzlies, Bulls, Nets, and the perennial philosophical conflict:
- Should the NBA still guarantee bad teams hope via the reverse-order draft?
- Proposals for reform:
  - The Draft "Wheel”: Each team cycles through every pick over 30 years, completely removing performance-based draft order.
  - Limiting pick protections (e.g., only top-4 protected instead of top-8) to reduce tanking incentives.
  - Introducing "March 1st" cutoff for lottery odds, rewarding end-of-season wins to disincentivize blatant late-season tanking.
  - Expanding playoff teams’ chances in the lottery.
  - Randomizing all 14 lottery positions (not just top 4).
Notable Quote (Zach Lowe, 55:24):
“If you actually want to eradicate tanking, eradicate it, you have to basically snip the connection between record and draft order. You have to be okay with the best team getting Victor Wembanyama.”

Counterpoint (Fred Katz, 56:10):
“Unintended consequences constantly. Let’s say the NBA does it where lottery odds lock in March 1st. You know what’s going to happen? Teams are just going to tank egregiously at the start of the season instead of the end.”
They cite Section D of the Player Participation Policy (the “shutdowns” rule) but lament inconsistent enforcement, especially with non-stars.
Both agree that no matter how you tweak the system, teams will find new ways to game it, advocating for more radical thinking but anticipating only incremental reforms.

8. Radical Solutions and Thought Experiments [62:00–76:18]

Lowe ponders: Is the 'hope' for bad teams overrated? Is tanking even that effective?
Practical impacts of proposed "wheel" system:
- Would you be comfortable if (for example) the 2017 Warriors got the #2 pick by default?
- Could tweaks to rookie contracts and cap relief for team-built stars help balance?
- Even lottery odds for all 14 non-playoff teams (risk: teams tank out of playoffs).
- Would there ever be appetite for abolishing the draft entirely in favor of pure NBA free agency for rookies?

9. Trade Deadline Fallout & Fitting-In Updates [78:59–94:46]

Harden’s fit with the Cavaliers: Seamless, excellent pick-and-roll chemistry with Jarrett Allen.
Nikola Vucevic’s role in Boston: Adds needed size and shooting, pro-level box-outs, but won’t necessarily force playoff defenses to adjust.
Celtics’ and Knicks’ lineup tinkering: return of Tatum, creative schemes to generate rim pressure, and leveraging new signings (Jeremy Sochan, Jose Alvarado).
Bulls’ reshuffle: fascinating looks at Rob Dillingham and Jaden Ivey, how Chicago is using “second draft” guys and developing roles for each.

10. Denver Nuggets’ Mini-Slump – Cause or Concern? [99:20–107:20]

Nuggets in a rut (2–4 in last 6); main culprit: bad defense without Aaron Gordon and Peyton Watson.
Jokic uncharacteristically turnover-prone since return from injury (31 in last stretch).
Katz’s stat: 10-point swing in defensive rating with Gordon on the floor.
Both are unworried long-term, chalking it up to injuries, brutal schedule, and some bad luck, not systemic problems.

Notable Quote (Fred Katz, 103:01):
“Close games really determine so much of what we say about this stuff... you want to see who won a close game, it’s usually just who had more scoring chances. That’s what decides it so often.”

Memorable Quotes

Zach Lowe (55:24): "If you actually want to eradicate tanking, you have to basically snip the connection between record and draft order."
Fred Katz (56:10): "The motto for all of this stuff is unintended consequences constantly."
Fred Katz (14:41): "[Tatum] is like the least disruptive superstar from a skill set perspective of any of those guys."
Zach Lowe (26:10): "I was like borderline shocked that this was the choice" (on Brandon Ingram as All-Star replacement).

Final Thoughts

The NBA’s tanking issue has reached a critical mass, compelling both tongue-in-cheek (“Player Violating a Nasty Strategy”) and deeply earnest debates on solutions.
While incremental fixes (stricter pick protections, enforcing existing anti-shutdown rules, giving playoff teams lottery hope) may blunt the worst tanking incentives, there's a growing sense among league insiders that some kind of radical reimagining—like Mike Zarin's draft "wheel" or abolishing the draft entirely—deserves serious debate.
In the meantime, teams are experimenting, making tough injury decisions, and integrating new players in search of the next advantage or breakthrough.
For now, the cycle continues: teams tank, league tweaks rules, teams adapt…and the debate churns on.

Quick Reference: Segment Timestamps

[02:46] Pistons-Hornets Brawl
[12:22] Tatum Return & Boston’s Chemistry
[21:55] Embiid Injury
[23:35] All-Star Selections
[29:27] Suns Lineup, Jalen Green
[32:44] Miami Heat Frontcourt Update
[34:36] Jaren Jackson Jr. Injury, Tanking Deep Dive
[62:00] Draft "Wheel", Radical Proposals
[78:59] Trade Fits: Harden, Vucevic, Knicks, Bulls
[99:20] Denver Nuggets Slump
[107:32] Outro

This summary captures the flow, insight, and wit of Zach Lowe and Fred Katz’s lively discussion, perfect for catching up on the critical issues and best moments from this episode.

The Zach Lowe Show – "Jaren Jackson Jr. Out Indefinitely and a Look at the Tanking Crisis"

February 12, 2026 – With Fred Katz

Overview

Major Topics & Timestamps

1. Pistons-Hornets Brawl and Suspensions [02:46–12:09]

Breakdown of the Pistons-Hornets melee, its rare intensity, and the resulting suspensions.
- Isaiah Stewart: 7 games
- Miles Bridges, Moussa Diabate: 4 games each
- Jalen Duren: 2 games (context: minimal involvement after escalation)
Commentary on Detroit’s competitive culture and the fine line between intensity and hurting your own team.

Notable Quote (Fred Katz, 04:15):
“Moussa Diabate's just endless pursuit was unbelievable. Like in a league where everybody says nobody wants to fight, that actually kind of seemed like a brawl where multiple people wanted to fight.”
Reflection on fight culture in the NBA, young teams building competitive environments, and brief mention of humorous moments, e.g., a security guard’s failed Van Gundy tackle.

2. Jason Tatum’s Impending Return & the Celtics’ Adaptation [12:22–21:55]

Tatum practiced 5-on-5 with the Maine Celtics – return likely this season.
Discussion of Boston’s surprising 35–19 record without Tatum and whether his return could disrupt team chemistry.
Lowe and Katz argue Tatum is uniquely non-disruptive for a superstar—praising his self-awareness and team-first mentality.

Notable Quote (Fred Katz, 14:41):
“Amongst like top 10 players, top 12 players, I think there’s an argument to be made that Tatum is like the least disruptive superstar from a skill set perspective of any of those guys.”
Analysis that Tatum, even at 80%, would be the “best role player in the NBA.”

3. Joel Embiid’s Injury – Implications for the Sixers [21:55–23:30]

Embiid out until after All-Star break with knee soreness; no panic but high alert as Sixers slip in standings.
Acknowledgement of Embiid’s resurgence and Philly’s reliance on him.

4. All-Star Game: Injury Replacements & Selection Surprises [23:35–30:46]

Reaction to Brandon Ingram replacing Steph Curry as All-Star, and the process’ apparent randomness.
List of players Lowe and Katz would have chosen over Ingram (Harden, Randle, Bam Adebayo, Mobley, Porter Jr., Derrick White, etc.).
Later, De’Aaron Fox replaces Giannis, further confusing the selection mechanics.

Notable Quote (Zach Lowe, 26:10):
“I was like borderline shocked that this was the choice.”

5. Phoenix Suns Lineup Dilemma & Role of Jalen Green [29:27–32:44]

Breakdown of Suns’ starting lineup internal battle: who starts, how to integrate returning players like Jalen Green vs. Grayson Allen.
Commentary on Dylan Brooks’ technical fouls and evolving offensive role.

Notable Quote (Fred Katz, 30:47):
“Jalen Green is one of those guys – unbelievably talented but... disruptive to your ecosystem. And right now Phoenix has this thing that is working for them.”

6. Miami Heat’s Frontcourt Experimentations [32:44–34:36]

Zach’s ongoing obsession: The Bam Adebayo + Khalil Ware pairing, recently revived despite earlier tension.
Kaz Yakachunas (Heat) emerging as another Heat developmental success.

7. Jaren Jackson Jr.'s Injury, Jazz Tanking, and Big Picture Tanking Woes [34:36–58:29]

Jaren Jackson Jr. Out – The Details [34:36–38:06]

Medical explanation (PVNS, a benign growth), context for the timing, and some tongue-in-cheek skepticism about tanking motivations.

Notable Quote (Zach Lowe, 35:24):
“Did I text somebody that PVNS actually stands for player violating a nasty strategy? Yes, I did. Like, i.e., Jaren Jackson Jr. is too good for the Jazz who want to tank. All tongue in cheek.”
Analysis of JJJ’s fit with the Jazz (small sample, but promising), special note on Markkanen’s defensive assignment challenges if JJJ is at PF.

Tanking: How Bad It’s Become and Is It Fixable? [38:06–58:29]

Discussion on league-wide tanking “crisis,” mentioning Jazz, Wizards, Pacers, Mavericks, Grizzlies, Bulls, Nets, and the perennial philosophical conflict:
- Should the NBA still guarantee bad teams hope via the reverse-order draft?
- Proposals for reform:
  - The Draft "Wheel”: Each team cycles through every pick over 30 years, completely removing performance-based draft order.
  - Limiting pick protections (e.g., only top-4 protected instead of top-8) to reduce tanking incentives.
  - Introducing "March 1st" cutoff for lottery odds, rewarding end-of-season wins to disincentivize blatant late-season tanking.
  - Expanding playoff teams’ chances in the lottery.
  - Randomizing all 14 lottery positions (not just top 4).
Notable Quote (Zach Lowe, 55:24):
“If you actually want to eradicate tanking, eradicate it, you have to basically snip the connection between record and draft order. You have to be okay with the best team getting Victor Wembanyama.”

Counterpoint (Fred Katz, 56:10):
“Unintended consequences constantly. Let’s say the NBA does it where lottery odds lock in March 1st. You know what’s going to happen? Teams are just going to tank egregiously at the start of the season instead of the end.”
They cite Section D of the Player Participation Policy (the “shutdowns” rule) but lament inconsistent enforcement, especially with non-stars.
Both agree that no matter how you tweak the system, teams will find new ways to game it, advocating for more radical thinking but anticipating only incremental reforms.

8. Radical Solutions and Thought Experiments [62:00–76:18]

Lowe ponders: Is the 'hope' for bad teams overrated? Is tanking even that effective?
Practical impacts of proposed "wheel" system:
- Would you be comfortable if (for example) the 2017 Warriors got the #2 pick by default?
- Could tweaks to rookie contracts and cap relief for team-built stars help balance?
- Even lottery odds for all 14 non-playoff teams (risk: teams tank out of playoffs).
- Would there ever be appetite for abolishing the draft entirely in favor of pure NBA free agency for rookies?

9. Trade Deadline Fallout & Fitting-In Updates [78:59–94:46]

Harden’s fit with the Cavaliers: Seamless, excellent pick-and-roll chemistry with Jarrett Allen.
Nikola Vucevic’s role in Boston: Adds needed size and shooting, pro-level box-outs, but won’t necessarily force playoff defenses to adjust.
Celtics’ and Knicks’ lineup tinkering: return of Tatum, creative schemes to generate rim pressure, and leveraging new signings (Jeremy Sochan, Jose Alvarado).
Bulls’ reshuffle: fascinating looks at Rob Dillingham and Jaden Ivey, how Chicago is using “second draft” guys and developing roles for each.

10. Denver Nuggets’ Mini-Slump – Cause or Concern? [99:20–107:20]

Nuggets in a rut (2–4 in last 6); main culprit: bad defense without Aaron Gordon and Peyton Watson.
Jokic uncharacteristically turnover-prone since return from injury (31 in last stretch).
Katz’s stat: 10-point swing in defensive rating with Gordon on the floor.
Both are unworried long-term, chalking it up to injuries, brutal schedule, and some bad luck, not systemic problems.

Notable Quote (Fred Katz, 103:01):
“Close games really determine so much of what we say about this stuff... you want to see who won a close game, it’s usually just who had more scoring chances. That’s what decides it so often.”

Memorable Quotes

Zach Lowe (55:24): "If you actually want to eradicate tanking, you have to basically snip the connection between record and draft order."
Fred Katz (56:10): "The motto for all of this stuff is unintended consequences constantly."
Fred Katz (14:41): "[Tatum] is like the least disruptive superstar from a skill set perspective of any of those guys."
Zach Lowe (26:10): "I was like borderline shocked that this was the choice" (on Brandon Ingram as All-Star replacement).

Final Thoughts

The NBA’s tanking issue has reached a critical mass, compelling both tongue-in-cheek (“Player Violating a Nasty Strategy”) and deeply earnest debates on solutions.
While incremental fixes (stricter pick protections, enforcing existing anti-shutdown rules, giving playoff teams lottery hope) may blunt the worst tanking incentives, there's a growing sense among league insiders that some kind of radical reimagining—like Mike Zarin's draft "wheel" or abolishing the draft entirely—deserves serious debate.
In the meantime, teams are experimenting, making tough injury decisions, and integrating new players in search of the next advantage or breakthrough.
For now, the cycle continues: teams tank, league tweaks rules, teams adapt…and the debate churns on.

Quick Reference: Segment Timestamps

[02:46] Pistons-Hornets Brawl
[12:22] Tatum Return & Boston’s Chemistry
[21:55] Embiid Injury
[23:35] All-Star Selections
[29:27] Suns Lineup, Jalen Green
[32:44] Miami Heat Frontcourt Update
[34:36] Jaren Jackson Jr. Injury, Tanking Deep Dive
[62:00] Draft "Wheel", Radical Proposals
[78:59] Trade Fits: Harden, Vucevic, Knicks, Bulls
[99:20] Denver Nuggets Slump
[107:32] Outro

This summary captures the flow, insight, and wit of Zach Lowe and Fred Katz’s lively discussion, perfect for catching up on the critical issues and best moments from this episode.

Jaren Jackson Jr. Out Indefinitely and a Look at the Tanking Crisis

Powered by Wave AI

Summary

The Zach Lowe Show – "Jaren Jackson Jr. Out Indefinitely and a Look at the Tanking Crisis"

Overview

Major Topics & Timestamps

1. Pistons-Hornets Brawl and Suspensions [02:46–12:09]

2. Jason Tatum’s Impending Return & the Celtics’ Adaptation [12:22–21:55]

3. Joel Embiid’s Injury – Implications for the Sixers [21:55–23:30]

4. All-Star Game: Injury Replacements & Selection Surprises [23:35–30:46]

5. Phoenix Suns Lineup Dilemma & Role of Jalen Green [29:27–32:44]

6. Miami Heat’s Frontcourt Experimentations [32:44–34:36]

7. Jaren Jackson Jr.'s Injury, Jazz Tanking, and Big Picture Tanking Woes [34:36–58:29]

Jaren Jackson Jr. Out – The Details [34:36–38:06]

Tanking: How Bad It’s Become and Is It Fixable? [38:06–58:29]

8. Radical Solutions and Thought Experiments [62:00–76:18]

9. Trade Deadline Fallout & Fitting-In Updates [78:59–94:46]

10. Denver Nuggets’ Mini-Slump – Cause or Concern? [99:20–107:20]

Memorable Quotes

Final Thoughts

Quick Reference: Segment Timestamps

Summary

The Zach Lowe Show – "Jaren Jackson Jr. Out Indefinitely and a Look at the Tanking Crisis"

Overview

Major Topics & Timestamps

1. Pistons-Hornets Brawl and Suspensions [02:46–12:09]

2. Jason Tatum’s Impending Return & the Celtics’ Adaptation [12:22–21:55]

3. Joel Embiid’s Injury – Implications for the Sixers [21:55–23:30]

4. All-Star Game: Injury Replacements & Selection Surprises [23:35–30:46]

5. Phoenix Suns Lineup Dilemma & Role of Jalen Green [29:27–32:44]

6. Miami Heat’s Frontcourt Experimentations [32:44–34:36]

7. Jaren Jackson Jr.'s Injury, Jazz Tanking, and Big Picture Tanking Woes [34:36–58:29]

Jaren Jackson Jr. Out – The Details [34:36–38:06]

Tanking: How Bad It’s Become and Is It Fixable? [38:06–58:29]

8. Radical Solutions and Thought Experiments [62:00–76:18]

9. Trade Deadline Fallout & Fitting-In Updates [78:59–94:46]

10. Denver Nuggets’ Mini-Slump – Cause or Concern? [99:20–107:20]

Memorable Quotes

Final Thoughts

Quick Reference: Segment Timestamps