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The Zach Lowe Show
Knicks Up 2-0! Plus, Spurs Even the Series, Lottery Thoughts, and Fake Trades!
01:38:27
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- [00:00]
Zach Lowe
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. One minute the crowd's cheering, the next the scoreboard flips. Sports are full of surprises and life isn't much different. That's where State Farm comes in with their easy to use digital tools and over 19,000 local agents who can help you call the right play. Because when you know someone's ready to assist, you have the confidence to take on the unpredictable. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there with the assist. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Price and eligibility vary by state.
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Mo De'Akill
Foreign.
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Zach Lowe
Up on the Zach Lowe Show Mo Tequila is here. We're going to talk everything second round react to last night's Knicks win over the Sixers without Joel Embiid. OG Anunoby pulled up with some hamstring issue or leg issue late in the game. We'll talk about the impact of that. San Antonio blows the doors off the Timberwolves in Game two to even up that series. IO Dasumu got hurt again. Ant was not quite ant. And we'll talk about, you know, how that series moves forward back to Minnesota for Games 3 and 4. Who do we like in that series? I picked spurs in six. I'm sticking with spurs in six in that one. Quickie previews of tonight's games Cavs Pistons show me Game for the Cavs. Show me something because your offense was a mess in Game one and Detroit kind of eked it out at the end. Good effort, of course by the Pistons. And then Thunder Lakers went a lot like Thunder Lakers was expected to go in Game one. Do they have any hope? And then it's draft lottery week. We're going to talk about who has the most at stake. What would be the funniest outcome? What would be the saddest outcome? Trade possibilities and all of that stuff. Jaylen Brown Twitch Stream Jaylen Brown Fake trades Giannis the Bucks owner said some stuff about Giannis. The off season is about to get into full swing. We'll talk about all of that and more with Mo De Kill coming up on the Zach Lowe Show. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by fanduel. It's been a wild playoff run, but it's not over yet and FanDuel wants to bring you closer to the court to make more of all the action to come. FanDuel is the best place to bet the teams, the players and plays during the NBA postseason. Build a same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout or try live betting and jump into the action after tip off. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app now and play your game. Twenty were over in select states. Eighteen are over in D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org ChatInSecondicut. Welcome to the Zach Lowe Show. It's bright and early on a Thursday morning. The New York Knicks are up 20 in the conference semifinals. Did they suffer a big loss? We'll talk about that. And the spurs absolutely destroyed the hapless, turnover prone, just not quite there. Minnesota Timberwolves, even that series of 1 1. We have two more games tonight. We have the lottery coming up. We have Jaylen Brown saying more stuff on Twitch and me learning what Twitch is and how it works. We have the Bucks owner saying interesting yet somehow also crazy things about Giannis. There's a lot going on. Motaquil, how are you?
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Mo De'Akill
I'm doing great, Zach. I'm on your side of the country. I'm on the East Coast.
- [03:14]
Zach Lowe
Welcome, welcome. We like having you. Welcome to the worst sports time zone of all. Four time zones.
- [03:22]
Mo De'Akill
Oh, my God, this is wild.
- [03:25]
Zach Lowe
I think everybody who lives in LA should have to do, like, two weeks in New York watching sports that you feel like what we feel. It's not good for sleep. All right, let's start. Nick Sixers. Well, I hope the Sixers fans enjoyed the, like, 72 hours where they got to see their team playing to its full potential because Joel Embiid was out for Game 2 with a malady, an endless series of maladies linked to. He got hit. It's lots of stuff. He got nailed on the screen after getting appended. I'm not blaming him. He's just out. And this was the fear all along, obviously, that could he hold up for two series, three series, particularly once we got going every other day, gutted it out in game one. I suppose there's a case to be made that the Sixers should have just punted that game from the beginning. That's. That's an easier case to make in fantasy land than it is in real life. It's hard to look your team in the eye and be like, you know what? We're just not going to really try that hard to win this game. And then they did punt it when it got out of control. Good showing. I thought, for the Sixers last night, Maxi came out with the right mentality. The guy was just hunting every kind of opportunity there was to score. He understood he needed to spark his team. Played pretty good defensively. The Whole team did. They had great minutes from Don Barlow as a stopgap center. When all of their centers got in foul trouble, everyone was in foul trouble. Mitchell Robinson was also out in this game. There was a lot of Huck Porty. I just, I do wonder if it's. It's 9:30 in the morning right now. We won't know about OGN and Obi's hamstring thing. He pulled up with about three minutes to go, sat on the left the bench for the rest of the game. Obviously had hamstring issues in the playoffs two years ago. This is not then totally different Knicks team. Everybody on that team was hurt by the end. Everybody else is pretty healthy. I mean Mitchell Robinson was an illness last night. But I do wonder Mo if the single most important thing that happened last night was depending on the MRI results Ogn and Obi's hamstring injury. Because not a stretch to say he has been the best player on the Knicks in the playoffs and like one of the five to 10 best players in the NBA in the playoffs. 21 points, seven and a half rebounds, three stocks per game on 62% shooting 54% on threes, 67% on twos. And you saw in this game if Cat continues to commit dumb fouls and illegal screens we're going to see OG Anunoby as a backup center. He's a wild card if Embiid gets healthy in this series to guard Embiid now and then every time the Sixers and it hasn't been very many times have tried to put their centers on him and cross match like that. He has burned them with pick and pop threes and drives to the rim. He beat BJ Edgecombe on his switch, just bullied him. So he's beating mismatches that way. Just like there's the Knicks have a lot of really good wings. No one quite like him and we'll see how long he's out for. If it were me, Mo, I'm the luxury of a 20 lead. I'm soft pedaling this giving him as much rest as possible. I should feel pretty confident that I can win one of two in Philly, particularly with Embiid status uncertain. Even if he plays like let's cut out one of two and try to wrap this up in five or six. I actually think they could plausibly win the east without OG Anunoby the way that Cleveland and Detroit have kind of had to gut out their respective games. But boy would they miss his size against Cleveland who plays two Bigs to start and finish a lot of games, so less so finishing. And Detroit, who absolutely kicked the shit out of the Knicks in the regular season. You need all the physicality you can get. So I just think any analysis of Game 2 has to start with, like, knock on wood for OG and an OBI because the Knicks are looking like a worthy Finals team right now. Could still make it without him, but if he's out for like a. The playoffs, which I hope not, and you just never know what these things could be. Like a game, it could be two weeks, it could be a month. I do think the Finals, if they were to get there, that's when you would just be like, oh, okay, now we're upping a level, and we really do need him.
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Mo De'Akill
The thing that's brutal about it because, like, you lay out the numbers, even when he comes back, what is he going to come back as, right? And that's something that's really concerning because he's been not just. He's been the most consistent Knick player. He's been the guy you could count on every night on both ends of the floor. And the way that he's provided for this Knicks team and being able to spread the floor, like you said, with his shooting numbers are just absolutely absurd. And I. It's. It's such a killer sort of situation. When you. When you saw him pull up, and to be honest, like, I missed it at first. I had to go back and catch it, but when you saw him pull up, it was just like, oh, man, that's not good. Because he tried to gut it out for the rest of that possession. I mean, he tried to dunk on. It was Drummond who was. He was trying to dunk on right there. He misses the dunk, but it was a. And then it comes back down. And then he just immediately knew, I'm done, I got to get out. And I think that's a brutal possession and. And position to be in with the Knicks, because you said they don't have anybody like him off the bench. I mean, just even body type, right? Like, they become immediately a smaller team the moment he's not available. You know, honestly, the.
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Zach Lowe
The closest guy they have is Diawara, who had really nice moments for them in the regular season.
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Mo De'Akill
I.
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Zach Lowe
If I'm Mike Brown, like, I'm not averse to giving Diora a shot to just, like, put him on the floor, see how he looks. He's got size. He shot the three pretty well. But, yeah, I mean, he's a rookie unproven whatever. Like, yes. And very few teams have anybody like OG that's why the Knicks traded stuff to get him.
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Mo De'Akill
Yeah. And I think it's. It's really going to be an important one going through. I'm with you. I actually don't think. I think they can pull out one of the next two games in Philly, you know, with, with what they have. I don't need to worry about him for the next two games. Like, get, get yourself right and let's see where we're at. And if I can win the series without him, like, that's a massive win for them. Right. Obviously they get to kind of rest him a little bit more. It's the next round and where I'm worried because of the physicality is going to ramp up even more. Especially if it's the Pistons that move on and you have to deal with their sort of just bruising mentality. I. That's where I'm concerned. It was the biggest story of the night. Like, there's no way to look at it when you see his importance and his value to this team. It just crushes you when he's not going to be available and you, your chances are lower because like, they did look like a champion and contender. Not a contender. Like, they look like, yo, this is a team that legitimately has a chance to take on anybody in the west. With the way they've been playing the past few games, like they were blowing everybody out the door, out the gym, you know, before game two. Like, I, I'm. I'm pretty bummed that he went down. Yeah.
- [10:23]
Zach Lowe
You know, it's. It's interesting. I've been thinking a lot about this. I picked the Knicks to make the finals before the season. And you are. I am. Many of us are trapped in this mental thing of like, well, you know, you get to the finals from the east and then it's like, oh, here comes the varsity conference champion and it's going to be ugly from there. And I don't think it's like, I agree if it's spurs or Thunder, you know, the Knicks did beat the Thunder in a high profile Kia Sprite Poulian weed eater, Taco Bell Emirates cup finals game. That was a big spotlight game. But if it's one of those two teams, the Knicks, even at full health, would be underdogs, particularly against the Thunder. Defending champions still haven't lost the game in the playoffs. But like, matchups are funny things and you get into a series and maybe you find something that you didn't anticipate. That's an advantage that the other team didn't even anticipate. And you start yanking on that a little bit, and, like, you steal one of the first two games, it's a short series. Like, you get one kind of random, fluky win or one win when you play out of your mind, and like, all of a sudden, you're two wins from the title. The Pacers were a huge underdogs last year. They almost won. It's just. It's one series. Anything can happen. And I think the Knicks have shown enough, and they're a strange enough matchup with Cat at the five, if he can ever stop fucking fouling everybody.
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Mo De'Akill
Jesus.
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Zach Lowe
Versus the. And then they can flip to the double big and they throw the Mitchell Robinson ingredient out there. Brunson's a strange player. Undersized, sure, but he's, like, a tough. He's. He's tough to grasp defensively. And their defense is like, a proven thing now. I mean, this has been a top eight defense for a long time. They've been sensational in the playoffs. They've been sensational in the series. I don't think that's an impossible hill to climb for the fully healthy Knicks. Obviously, they have to get there, but they would find a way to be in those games. And so you just knock on wood. Like, I would love if by the end of today, it's whatever the lowest grade of the lowest thing is, it's 10 days to two weeks, take it slow, get out of this series and move on. Because I do think even if Embiid plays the rest of the series, which we don't know, four out of five is going to be a tall order for Philly, even with three of the five games in. Philly, go ahead.
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Mo De'Akill
Like, if the one thing I kind of thought put the Knicks in a tough position in this game, part of it was the nature of finding out day of that, it beads out. It took a target off the floor for them, right? Like, they went the way Brunson attacked them in game one, like, he absolutely killed it. My. My podcast partner Jared Dubin sent me this from game one. You know, 27 picking a rolls and bead was involved in, and the Knicks had a 1.62 points per possession, you know, including past passes on those. On that, like, that target kind of was taken off for the Knicks a little bit. And I think, you know, if Embiid comes back, it's almost, like, cool. Like, you could just see Brunson sort of just rubbing his Hands ready to go back to work right off the bat in that instance. So I think that's going to be something that even if Embiid comes back, I'd be worried about if I was Philly.
- [13:32]
Zach Lowe
At the same time, like, I had this discussion with Bill after Embiid's first playoff game back where it was like a little tough integrating him and Maxi got lost and he floated the are they better without Embiid thing. I'm like, no, they're not. And, and I think, yes, they attacked them, beat a ton in the pick and roll and had great success in the first game. You saw last night that without that segment of their offense, the Knicks can just load up on everything else. So they're blitzing every Maxi pick and roll where he tries to hunt Brunson and saying to the Sixers, go ahead, like Kelly Uber, you want to play four on three and a Dembona is under the rim. We don't think you can beat us. And their rotations were like, wildly on point last night. The Knicks defense, um, even when they just ran straight pick and roll with like Barlow or Bona at center blitz and like, okay, Don Barlow, you're just like fresh into the game. You want to play four on three. Good luck. And he fumbled one. He, like fumbled the ball and then threw a pass out of bounds. And the Knicks were flying everywhere. And if you freeze those, it does look like, oh, there's a Sixer over there open. But when you freeze it, you're. You're missing the speed of what's going on in real time and how that Knicks defender is already starting to run to the open guy and where that Knicks defender is going to be when the ball actually gets to that open guy. And even, you know, one thing that I talked about after game one was when Maxi gets a favorable matchup, namely Brunson, I would just not even send a pickup for him. I would just let him go one on one and try to go to the rim. And the Knicks were like, no, no, we're not going to let you do that. We're just going to double you at half court and take the ball out of your hands. All of those things become much harder for the Knicks to do with Joel Embiid on the floor instead of the centers who are on the floor. Not to mention the post up option, the pick and pop short twos, all of that. So I think it goes both ways. I just don't. I said it against Boston and I'll say it now, I don't think the Sixers can score enough points to be competitive in a seven to win a seven game series against a good team without Joel Embiid, even if he is at times a little lost in space defensively. And I thought the Knicks, yes, maybe they lost a place to hunt when they had the ball, but they became predators on defense because Embiid was not on the floor.
- [15:44]
Mo De'Akill
The one thing too, though, about those rotations when they did blitz was the Brunson didn't do particularly a great job of sprinting to the opposite corner. Right. Like, it was almost funny. There's one possession I was watching rewatching this morning where, like, it happens and it's almost like he stopped every time the pass was. The swing. Swing pass was made. And it was, it was the one where I forget who. I think Uber attacked from the corner and found Barlow for a, for a bucket in the dump off. But it was like he stopped at the first pass. Looked real quick, where's the ball going? And it was covered. Cool. Goes to the next pass, stops there, just, oh, okay. And then runs over or Uber is immediately able to attack. Like there are small things where their rotation. I thought they could have been sharper with that. And that's just me nitpicking the way, you know, I do as a nerd. But I think that's the, the stuff that they need to be a bit sharper into it because that actually really opened up Philly's offense quite a bit. Thought Philly did a great job moving the ball off of those double teams and getting a lot of swing, swing, three, swing, swing, drive, swing, swing, you know, rip and go and, and all of those different opportunities. It was, that was the stuff that I think most impressed me with the Sixers offense.
- [16:56]
Zach Lowe
When they went, I thought that was a really good battle. I, I agree that the Sixers move the ball really well. And sometimes when you move the ball really well, the rotations are not going to be perfect. Two guys are going to pause for a second, like, who's shooting over to the corner, who's coming up wing. They had even one possession where they. This and this is like really getting into the weeds. It was a maxi, uh, pick and roll kind of in the middle of the floor and they blitzed it and Uber flared out and he flared out, I think in a very calculated way to the side of the floor where the Sixers only had one shooter and not two. And when you do that and he caught the ball, suddenly there's one guy that has to guard A ton of space and two Sixers, Uber and Paul George. And Paul George. Uber kicked it to Paul George and Paul George made a three. But the Knicks were fast enough that Brunson got there and made Paul George pump fake, take a dribble and go to the Sidestep 3, which is like all you can ask for. The Sixers, and this is a tech. This is a very important technicality to me. They even achieved on one possession the rarefied air of what the Zach Low show and formerly the Low Post would call would term a Spurs gasm, credited to the 2013 spurs, who took ball movement and the next season to a new level. And if this was a. Again, this is a technically a Spurs gasm blitz to pick and roll. And instead of hitting the roll, man, Maxi hits VJ Edgecomb on the wing as a release valve. And in like two seconds, it goes Maxi to Edgecombe. Edgecomb hits, I think Barlow on the roll. Barlow swings it to Grimes at the wing. Grimes passes it to someone in the corner. All five Sixers touch the ball, it doesn't touch the floor, and someone shoots a three. That's a Spurs, guys, but that's to go to the wing, to the roller, to a shooter. They achieved it and it was a tough. I think they actually missed the shot. But I agree, they moved it well. They made the right passes. I just thought for the most part, the Knicks did a B plus, A minus job of rotating and like, sometimes you're going to lose those battles, sometimes you're going to win. I'm just not sure how relevant all of that is if Embiid is actually playing game three.
- [19:00]
Mo De'Akill
Yeah, I think that's a big one there for that. And you're right, like, for the most part, the Knicks handled it really well in terms of that. I, I just found that really kind of the, the most interesting part of the game for me was watching the Knicks rotate out of. That was really the, the, the thing that got me geeked up each time just seeing like, okay, where's the who's. Who's coming from where? How are they going to handle it? And you know, like you said, they handled it well for the most part. But there were moments where I thought the Sixers were pretty smart in the way they attacked. I, I was pretty impressed with that.
- [19:31]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, it was. I, I think Nick Nurse has done a good job in the playoffs. I said that after Game one, when they look so lifeless against Boston, I. Boston's defense and their, Boston's tendencies and leveraging them against them In a smart way. It just. They just didn't have the talent at that point to win those games. And Embiid came to back. I thought last night they played. I mean, they. It was a close game until the end with Dom Barlow playing the 5 instead of Embiid and Grimes not really bringing that much off the bench. And I think they're going to need more Grimes just because of his shooting and the way that when they play him instead of Uber now, Uber has been essential for them. But when they play the three guards plus Paul George, it just becomes harder for the Knicks to hide Brunson. The only other note I have on this game is this, not the only other one, but we're going to get out of this game soon. The Sixers had a window in the second quarter when Cat picked up his third foul and was of course astonished that they dared call a foul on him. And Brunson was resting and so both of them were off the floor. And I think the Knicks were minus two in about four or five minutes. And they were really. And like they were minus. It was even. And. And then Maxi made free throws off of a foul when Brunson was coming back in the game. You just got to win those minutes by more, by hooker, by crook. Like those are minutes that are gifted to you. You got to win them by more. And the Knicks did well to manufacture buckets and. And like Josh Hart has been. I mean, I. He. What did he have like five points last night? He's getting like two and three steals every game. He guarded Maxi well when he got switched on to Maxi, he's just been sensational. Mikhail Bridges has continued to come to life. He played very well last night on both ends of the floor. So you just hope like, let's get every. Let's get everybody healthy. Let's get in and over healthy and beat healthy and Mitchell Robinson healthy and like maybe restart the series. But the Knicks are up too old.
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Mo De'Akill
Yeah, I think that's the right way to go about it. And that's the big thing. You got to take advantage of those minutes when those guys. When Kat and Brunson are off the floor and for just. You said it earlier, but just for the love of God, Cat, please stop foul like this.
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Zach Lowe
It's because he's playing. He's playing amazing on both ends of the floor. He's playing really well.
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Mo De'Akill
This has been his. This has been my favorite Cat playoffs run that we've had. And it's really frustrating when it. We. It gets cut short by Just dumb fouls. And then it's that face he makes afterwards where it's like kind of gets squished and like. Like, what are you talking? Like you fouled him. Like, it's a foul. Just stop it.
- [22:01]
Zach Lowe
Who is more astonished? Who wins the astonishment competition in this series on calls against their team? Is it. It's Cat versus Nick Nurse in a battle of, like, one seeds across the NBA. Nick Nurse. I love Nick Nurse. I feel I've been thinking about him because of his brother. I've known Nick for a long time. He really, though, has rocketed up the jaw. I mean, he's been like. Even there were memes of him with the Raptors making astonished faces. But it's. It's like every call, he's astonished. Like, you can't be that astonished every
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Mo De'Akill
time it's too close to call between those two. Like, it really is
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Zach Lowe
one thing on Bridges, a little thing I love that the Knicks did. And the reason why Bridges is more involved in this series, and he has been from the get go, is because Maxi's guarding him and the Knicks are smartly being like, we're going to involve you in a lot, at the very least to try to make you tired. And so the Knicks have gotten so much credit from running this simple little screening action down in the corner when Brunson goes and screens for Anunobi. And, like, people are reacting to it like they've reinvented the wheel. It's like a pretty elementary thing. And, like, great. It's working. And it's like, not rocket science.
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Mo De'Akill
They.
- [23:12]
Zach Lowe
They did twice or three times last night. Brunson started jogging toward the corner like he. That's where he was going to go. And then bolted diagonally up to the wing to set a screen for Bridges to try to involve Maxi. And the Sixers were not ready for it, and they messed up the coverages. Bridges got a layup. I just. I love the entire idea of we're going to counter what you're expecting and involve Maxi at the same time.
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Mo De'Akill
Just good coaching. Just smart action right there.
- [23:40]
Zach Lowe
Yeah. All right, well, get everyone healthy, I guess. I don't know. Get everyone healthy and stop fouling. Let's take a quick break and we'll go to the Western Conference where not a competitive game. Last night in San Antonio. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA playoffs are here, and everything's on the line. Every possession matters, every bucket swings the game. And tonight is your shot to boost your bet. That's right. All customers get a profit boost tonight. So when the moment hits, your win hits bigger and FanDuel is giving you better payouts on same game parlays all NBA playoffs long. Lock in your bets, boost your odds and make the playoffs. Pay off with FanDuel, official sports betting partner of the NBA. Head to FanDuel.com low to get started. FanDuel play your game 21 or over in select states or 18 and over in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in required bonus issued is non withdrawable Profit boost tokens gambling problem call 1-800-GAMBLER call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatinconnectic this episode is brought to you by Warby Parker Spring is here. More games, more being out and about. And yeah photos. And if you wear glasses there in all of them. I have a lot of friends. I don't wear glasses but my wife does, my sister does, my brother in law does. I have tons of friends who have used Warby Parker. They find it super consumer friendly. You can see how all the frames would look on you. They're affordable, they're stylish. I've just, I've. I've been hearing about Warby Parker for 15 years because of people in my life who wear glasses. Warby Parker superflied everything. Quality, price, selection, all of it. And their virtual try on is a game changer right now. Buy one prescription pair and get 20% off any additional prescription pairs@warbyparker.com Low that's 20% off additional prescription pairs when you go to w y parker.com Low Spurs Wolves well on to game three in Minnesota I I get this is a classic. Just a classic. Underdog wins Game one on the road Confluence of Factors Home team stomps in Game two Home favorite stomps in Game two We've seen it a million times. We saw it in the first round in a couple series. So not shocking. I think if you're Minnesota, like not even shocking that part of it was Minnesota just being too loose with the ball, too casual with their transition defense. Stuff that like is a not unexpected for a little bit of a schizophrenic team and b not unexpected when probably some part of your brain is like we did what we came to do in game one. This would be gravy but it doesn't seem to be going our way. So Other alarming signs ANT continues to be on a minutes restriction and just isn't really as involved in the offense as the Wolves are going to need him to be his pick and roll. Volume is down. He's taking a lot of threes, he's playing decoy a lot. While guys like Terence Shannon, who's been great, like run the offense and Randall runs the offense. He had one drive last night where he blew by Vassell and I think finished through Cornett at the rim left handed. That was the only time really where it was like, oh, Anton, Anton. The building ants here. And between that and IO leaving the game, returning and leaving the game, I think they said with the heel injury and obviously Dante's out, you just start to feel again the sort of critical threshold of injuries hitting Minnesota. And I mean, I picked the spurs in six. It just, it just seems unfathomable to me that even with home court now in their back pocket, that the Wolves could win three more times with ant looking like this. And it's like we can do the X's and O's and all of that, but if ant is a 25 minute a game, half decoy, half ant, I just don't see a pathway for Minnesota.
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Mo De'Akill
Yeah, no, it's. It's brutal that way. And then on top of that, like the spurs are pouncing on that, you know, anytime he gets the ball, it's an immediate double. You know, at half court, it's not. They're not waiting for the pick.
- [27:41]
Zach Lowe
So I want to get. I want to get into that because it actually kind of surprised me that they. They didn't do that at the beginning of the game. They started doing it in like the second quarter. He hadn't really done anything. Like, he hadn't done anything to scare them. And so I asked you, like, why do you think they did that? Like, do you. Why. Why do you think they planned. They clearly had it in their game plan and then they broke it out and it, it was like, oh, okay. Normally that happens when it's like it's Shea against an overmatched Lakers team or it's a guy who's just gone bananas for the first two quarters of the game. He has 30 points. You just got to take the ball out of his hands. Why do you think they did that?
- [28:18]
Mo De'Akill
I think part of it was just we want to force you guys to play faster. We want you to play fast, speed you up as much as possible and be frenetic. And then on top of that, we want to force the turnovers. We want to put you in bad positions with that. So it's. As soon as ant crosses half court, we're not going to let him just bring up the ball and be relaxed with it and go one on one. We're sending the double right away and immediately into denial. There's a great. They had it on the broadcast, you know, with Mitch Johnson miked up, like telling the guys like, go, come, come, come, come. Okay, now stay, stay, stay. You know, after he gives up the ball, they're going into full denial. We're going to try to speed you up because if you watch that game, this was like the spurs were so freaking fast in this game. And I mean, like it was turnovers. Boom, transition, miss basket. We're looking for the outlet. We're in transition. Made basket. We're looking for the outlet. We're in transition. We're even getting into the half court, you know, with 20, 19 seconds on the shot clock. We're trying to speed up the, the process and I think that was part of it. It wasn't so much that Ant was killing them, but it was more just like, hey, we want to make the Wolves. We want to put them on their heels when they're on offense even and have them kind of backpedaling. And I. It worked in such a way, I think it caught even them off guard and I think that was kind of a smart sort of tactic with what they did. And then the other thing, they just didn't want Ant to get going. If you go to game one, that start of the fourth quarter to the four minute mark, he was awesome. You know, I did a X's and Mo segment on the X live stuff I'm doing right now. And that was my segment yesterday was just looking at what Ant did in that, that run and they didn't want to have any of that. He torched Keldon Johnson and switches in game one. They were not going to switch. We're just going to double it. Get out of his hands and let's see if the other guys can do it. And then with IO out, with Dante out, like, there's less guys out there yet. Terence Shannon has been awesome. McDaniels has really stepped up, but it's like, can you do that enough? And I think those spurs are betting they can't.
- [30:20]
Zach Lowe
Yeah. So obviously my first thought was they're trying to generate turnovers and just see if they can just freak the Wolves out and get eight free points and run away with the game. My next thought was they're fine letting Minnesota's other players play four on three because Wembanyama's on the back line and Good luck to you. Like. And there was one play where they doubled off IO. Ant hit IO, IO drove in a four on three. Wemby guarded all. All four guys by himself and blocked IO at the rim. But then my last thought, the more holistic one, was, I think they're just like, you know what, Anthony Edwards, we're not letting you get in a rhythm at all. We're not even going to let you. Your Minnesota is at their best and maybe they can't quite get there with. Without DiVincenzo who's like roving. Three point shooting is so important for them, but they're at their best when ant runs pick and roll with Gobert and they get teams in the blender teams put two on the ball. Ant makes the right pass, the ball starts moving around, everyone's touching it. They get a lot of threes. Their three point volume is way down in this series. Obviously Dante being out as part of that. But I just think this, I think the spurs proactively were like, we're not even letting you get there where you're not letting. You're not. You're not even getting a screen. We're not letting you run a pick and roll because we don't even want you to feel that kind of rhythm and that kind of flow. And I thought that was really smart. I would keep doing it. You can't do it every possession because if you do anything every possession, good teams figure it out. I thought it was really smart. And like, they just didn't let him get any kind of flow. And then after that, the game just completely unraveled for. For Minnesota.
- [31:56]
Mo De'Akill
Yeah. And I think the, you know, when I was with the spurs, like, we would, we would save that for the end of games, we'd call it fire and it would usually be for Kobe. Right. And they just immediately went into fire early in the second quarter and just said, we're going to go with it. Because I think that was a big part of it, man. I think they just saw what was coming and they're just saying, we're not going to. We know what happens when he gets hot. We saw it. We're not going to let it happen again.
- [32:22]
Zach Lowe
Minnesota's transition defense, off and on a bugaboo for them over the years, was awful. Peaking with the very rare ant takes like a Minnesota shooter was in, takes a corner three. So his defender is way down at the bottom of the floor. It was Steph Castle, the corner three defender leaks out. The guy all the way down to the corner leaks out and gets a dunk while Julius Randle, who's on the opposite wing, it's his job to get back. He's just sort of watching everything unfold. I will say I have a bone to pick with Steph Castle. He had a dunk in this game. He was fantastic in the game. He got to the foul line nine times. He just beat the shit out of everybody in the way that he does. He had a dunk in this game where he caught the ball in the left corner against Mike Conley and blew by him and dunked. And I just want to say, as a 48 year old man, that hurt me personally. That's going to be like me playing soccer against my daughter in two years. It's ageism. It's not fair. And I think the referees after Mike Conley has been a good citizen in this league for so long. I think you call it off, call a travel, call it offensive foul. It's not fair what he did to Mike Conley. That's all, that's all elder.
- [33:36]
Mo De'Akill
Elder. Elder abuse is really what you're talking about. What I did love about Castle was when he tried to go echo bear.
- [33:43]
Zach Lowe
Oh, he did. He went for it. He kind of wound up and it was, he was like leaning and I was like, I don't know, I just don't want to. In midair. My brain was like, I don't want anyone to get injured because this doesn't look very. This doesn't look good.
- [33:54]
Mo De'Akill
It looked like also when he was like trying to go for it, like he wasn't anywhere near like aligned with the rim being straight ahead. It almost looked like he was off completely. But we talk about, you know, the, the Wolves trying to go at Wemby. Like it was fun to see Castle go at it. And, and the funny thing too, just to add after game one, all the talk from the Wolves players was like, we know he's gonna, Wemby's gonna block shots. We're gonna keep going. They didn't really attack Wemby that much in game two the way they did in game one. There's one, I posted it on X where Terrence Shannon drove and I call these U turns. Drove, saw Wemby turn right around and then took a mid range jumper. Like that was, you know, that was the thing where in game one those drives were challenging Wemby. They did not do that nearly as much in game two.
- [34:46]
Zach Lowe
And I thought, Wemby, look, we all knew he would do it, but he came out with a much more Aggressive mindset. You know, he. He went to the post more. He got that one play against Randle where he got the ball at the nail and just kind of burrowed in there. And all of a sudden, if he burrows in one foot, he's at the basket. And then he had another pick and roll where they switched and they switched McDaniels onto him. And he kind of put McDaniels on his hip and rolled into the post, caught a ball pretty deep, spun baseline, roasted McDaniels miss, and then put back his own miss. It's like, all right, that. That's just that thing. Like, Gator McDaniels is not a small guard that switches. Like, there are a lot of times where Victor or any other big guy is not going to take that switch down to the post like that. That was just a guy being like, in game one. I didn't do this enough. I am asserting my will in this game. It might not pay off on this possession. I might miss, I might fall over. It could be awkward. This is a great defender, but I'm taking you down to the block and I'm going to see what the hell happens. And what happened was good to me. The most interesting battleground in this series so far has been when Victor is on the floor and Gobert is off the floor. Now the Wolves have been. They're -21 with Gobert on the floor, -15 with Goar off the floor. So they're just minus across the board. But I find these minutes interesting because when Gobert's on the floor, Wembanyama is going to guard him. It's very simple. And he's guarding Wembanyama. Both teams have kept it simple. We're keeping our bigs on the big. We're going to have size in the middle. If you put us in a pick and roll, our bigs can guard both guys at the same time. Stay home on shooters. We're not messing around. When Rudy's out of the game and Victor's in the game, we've seen a lot of different things. And it boils down to the spurs, for whatever reason, do not want to put him on Randall. So they have Victor, sometimes on Jalen Clark, sometimes on J.D. mcDaniels, sometimes not really on anyone, just sort of whoever is in the corner, he's going to hang around that area and toggle between guys. And the Wolves are sort of digesting that and figuring out ways to attack it. But I find those minutes very interesting. And what would like either team like do you think either team has some low hanging fruit to like pick there?
- [36:56]
Mo De'Akill
Well, I think it becomes a bit challenging for the Wolves in terms of the defensive opportunities. I think it's, you know, Randall being more physical would Wemby. But like you said, we saw early when that happened, he, Wemby kind of handled it. He's kind of figuring it out as he's going in real time. So I'm worried about them there. I think for the spurs it's also more of just like this is full on attack the paint time, right? Like this is just go straight at the rim. You know, whether it's a. Not a lot of lobs for Wemby. I know they got the first one in this game early, but like this is just keep.
- [37:35]
Zach Lowe
This is.
- [37:36]
Mo De'Akill
Let's not settle for shots. Let's just put the pressure at the rim. If their number one shot blocker is not going to be there, let's go to work. And I think, yeah, pick and roll every. Every time, yeah, just get downhill and you have the guys to do it right. So just go to work with that. And that's going to open up opportunities because that's going to open up the lobster Wemby. If not, it's going to open up offensive board opportunities for other guys. Like I think that's, that's got to be the focus for the spurs and it's the other way around, right when Wemby's off the bench. I mean on the bench. But the other thing too is Cornet has actually held up pretty well as a rim protector all season and did pretty well in this game. On top of that, you know, you talked about the one where ant got him. There was another one where he got in at the rim. And I think it's really important that that continues for the spurs because that's the thing where it's like at least we don't lose all our shot blocking when he comes off.
- [38:29]
Zach Lowe
I almost feel bad for Cornet because every time Wembanyama goes out of the game, the announcers are like, well now you gotta attack the rim. Victor's not there and it's like Luke corner. Poor guy's not as sit up there. He's pretty good. But all the announcers like, well now you can see their eyes are wide and they're gonna attack them like Luke's all right. Anyway, yeah, I'm more thinking about the other end of the floor. Bulls offense versus spurs defense. And you like I. And, and obviously each team can adjust, but if I'm the Wolves and they don't want Wemby on Randall and they want Wemby hanging around the corners. I'm just keeping it very simple. I'm going to put shooters in both corners. Nas Reed's going to be in one corner. Someone else who can shoot threes is going to be another corner. And if Jalen Clark, if he's in the game, is going to be up on the wing somewhere or setting flare screens and I'm going to give the ball to Randall and I'm just going to let him attack and Victor's either going to have to come all the way from the corner and leave a shooter or Randall's going to get to the rim or something else is going to open up. Obviously there are counters to that, namely putting Victor on Randle or putting Victor on someone else or not having Victor near the corners, whatever it is. But when they had non shooters in the corners and just let Vick hang out on the baseline, like you're just not going to be able to score that way. When they had Nas Reed in the corner and another shooter in the other corner, they got good looks out of it. Mike Conley got a corner three hanging out in the corner on those plays. And Jalen Clarkson a flare screen. I just think that's an interesting sort of game within the game. And just again, notable to me that for whatever reason, the spurs don't want Wemby on Randall. Physicality probably is part of it. Staying near the rim is part of it. But I just think those, those numbers, those minutes are interesting. And shout out to the, you know who the other big winner in this series is so far.
- [40:16]
Mo De'Akill
Mo. No, who you got?
- [40:18]
Zach Lowe
Marcin Gortat has just never been more famous. Like he's more famous for this Gortat screen than he ever was as a player. He should be monetizing this somehow. This is wildly unfair that everyone. Doris Burke is now screaming gortat screen. The Gortat screen was so critical in game one. I wonder what percentage of the viewers even know what a gortach screen is. I'm not saying that insultingly. It's just so in the weeds. And she's right. It was critical in game one. And actually you could see it's a funny little game within the game. You can see the wolves ball handlers on a pick and roll, slowing down because they're. They're been told, wait for Rudy to screen and get back down towards the paint where he can blockade when Banyama a second time. Don't go Too fast. And you can even see on drives. It's not even on a pick and roll. Someone just winds up and drives from the wing and Gobert and Wemby are under, under the rim. Gobert like, tries to start getting in front of Wembanyama and block him out of the way. And Wembanyama is like, no, no, no. They're like battling for a spot in line at the movies or something. And Wemby's trying to get in front of him. But Marcin Gortad, if you're listening to this, get an attorney. Like a good IP attorney, because it's like Darvin Hamm all over again. Like, the Hammer plate is named after Darvin Hamm. It's the most. I mean, Darvin Hamm became a head coach of the Los Angeles Lakers. So this is facetious, but, like, playing wise, the most notable thing is there's a play named after him. He should get some credit for that. Marching Gortot, world famous now because of the Gortad screen.
- [41:54]
Mo De'Akill
I would, I would like him to not get an attorney because I, I, I. When I used to do my one Mode thing videos, it was definitely Gortat was one of them was a focus on that one. I'll, I'll, I'll probably have to go find it and put it back out there for everybody. I've used it many times myself in describing that action. So just. I'm more afraid if there's a retroactive bill that I won't be able to afford if. Because he gets the it of this. So I prefer he not.
- [42:21]
Zach Lowe
Hey, look, man, there is a whole generation of league pass. League pass nerds like me, like you, like a lot of other people and like 17 Washington, D.C. area residents who can wax poetic about the John Wall Marching Gordon pick and roll and the Gortot screens when he had a mohawk. You look like somebody straight out of Mad Max. I was always a big. He was a great backup center in Orlando. I was always a big F his. And now he's just, you know, I just wonder. His phone must blow up every single, Every single game when this is mentioned. It's like he just. Phone just must go crazy. I have another important center note for you related to this series. You know the cornet contest, obviously, right?
- [42:59]
Mo De'Akill
Yeah. Big.
- [43:00]
Zach Lowe
The big jump. The cornet just wherever he is on the floor, if his guy shoots. Not wherever he is, but he'll be 10ft away from the shooter and he'll just do like a straight up jump. Like he's almost Looks like he's doing calisthenics just to try to get in your line of sight. Deandre Ayton is doing this. Now, obviously, J.J. redick has talked about the cornet contest. Deandre Ayton is doing it in a way that I've never seen anyone do it before. And I'm actually afraid makes no sense and might be hurting the Lakers. He'll be in the paint, like, under the rim, and somebody, his guy, some other guy will shoot a three. And deandre Aiden, in the paint, like, not even in the guy's line of sight, will jump and clap his hands. He'll do, like, his version of the cornet contest. And I'll be like, what are you. Is J.J. telling you to do this? Why are you doing this? You're under the basket. And I'm like, I'm starting to think, is he hurting his rebounding position because he's so committed to this bit of doing his version of the cornet contest from under the rim? I've never seen anyone do this before. And I'm like, why are you. Why are you doing this? Stop doing. Just box out, man.
- [44:07]
Mo De'Akill
Anyway, I wonder if he got, like, the instructions, like, not fully fleshed out, right? Like, he's like, yeah, when your guy's going to shoot a three jump no matter where you are. And his response is like, okay, I'll just jump no matter where I am. And then he's added the clap to it. Before we move on, though, from this game, we got to talk about Dylan Harper.
- [44:28]
Zach Lowe
Oh, my God, yeah, please do.
- [44:30]
Mo De'Akill
He's been. I mean, as a rookie, he's been absolutely phenomenal through these entire playoffs. Like, the run he had in game one was amazing yesterday. Just all the smart plays in transition, getting that big, the tip dunk off of a miss. Like, all the small things that he's doing defensively, finding the outlets. He's the one that makes the. The kick ahead past the Castle to get the. The Duncan transition. There was one play, it was a deflection, but it was ambient doubled. He was trying to swing it to an open shooter in the corner. And you know, there's Harper knocking that one out of bounds as he's there. Just all the small things that you're.
- [45:06]
Zach Lowe
Stop with the Blink 182. Stop with the Blink 182.
- [45:09]
Mo De'Akill
Not even trying to. I wasn't even trying to.
- [45:11]
Zach Lowe
You're almost gonna make me sing, and
- [45:13]
Mo De'Akill
nobody wants to hear me sing, but I think just. He is doing all the little things. Thank you make it. You're welcome. He's doing all the little things where it's like you're watching this as a rookie and he's just coming to the playoffs completely unfazed. And I love every bit of it when I'm watching him and just going nuts with, with, with this stuff and watch and I'm just like, man, God, two or three years from now, like, this dude's going to be unbelievable.
- [45:37]
Zach Lowe
You know what Blink182 is right about?
- [45:40]
Mo De'Akill
What's that?
- [45:41]
Zach Lowe
Surprises really do. Let me know she cares. Like a surprise is just, it really does just do the trick. Okay, let's very quickly just like two minutes on each of tonight's games because there's not a lot of lag time between when this post and the games. Lakers Thunder Is there anything here to talk about going into game two?
- [46:02]
Mo De'Akill
I, I liked what the Lakers did in terms of how they defended Shea, but they need to figure out how to rotate out of that and, and, and how to kind of like go from there into everything. They can't let go. Like Chet went off, I think was a big thing. And I, I that the strategy is sound but you got to execute it. So like they did a good job with Shay, but it's being able to fire out after that is going to be the other thing that's really important. It's an important piece to that strategy that I just don't think the Lakers really did. And I don't feel like the Thunder were threatened at any point in this game.
- [46:35]
Zach Lowe
No, obviously they're throwing two and three guys at Shade almost immediately crosses half court. My one nitpick where is like, if you're going to do that, you have to do it properly. And there were too many times where Shai's defender would open up his hips and like open up a driving lane and be waving for someone like you're supposed to be here now. And if you open up like that and someone isn't there now, it's over. The possession is toast for you. I do think I would love to have a real conversation with JJ about this because I wonder if like a third of the reason they're doing this because it's not just that they're trapping Shay. If you like look at the matchups, who's guarding who. It's completely random sometimes from possession to possession, like Ayton will be guarding Caruso and then on the next possession he'll be guarding Chad Holmgren. And it just like people are just. And I do wonder if part of the hope is if we do get a stop, the matchups are going to be so jumbled that yeah, this team is an unbelievable defensive team. They can match up any way possible. But maybe there'll be a moment of confusion. Maybe the smallest guy on the floor will be on LeBron. Even though our small guys can do like a passable job at times on LeBron. And I mean the only other thing I have notes is like Reaves obviously has to make shots and play way better and I think they're going to have to lean even more into the Reeves LeBron two man game because their only consistent offense is Reeves high pick and roll and he missed every look he got. And LeBron hunting what passes for small guys, whether it's Wallace who he can put in the basket but will put up resistance or Shea or whoever. And the Thunder are not giving them, giving LeBron those matchups. They're blitzing and doubling and like making the Lakers pass it around. But if you put your two best players in actions, maybe that becomes a little harder. It just like, it just sucks that Luka is injured and continues to be injured. It sucks that Jalen Williams is injured because I'll say it again, Luka at full strength plus Jalen Williams out. The Lakers have a have a chance to make this a competitive series and right now it doesn't feel like they do. Maybe they win tonight and this all sounds foolish. The game I am more interested in is Cleveland Detroit. I think this is a show me game for the Cavs tonight. I'm saying this, it's now 1020 Eastern. Maybe they win by 20, maybe they make this look foolish. I thought their performance for 40 minutes of game one was disgusting and unserious and I thought their offense was a complete mess. I can't believe what a mess the offense is On a team that has four guys who have made recent all star teams, including two of the best guards of the last 15 years. They look like they have no plan, no identity, no cohesion, no flow. And Harden looks old now and that's not like a new thing. He can't get by anyone and he doesn't like when Duran or whoever the screener defender is comes up to the level of the screen or pretty high. Harden just pulls up like I don't. He does not want to attack that matchup at all. And the Pistons know it. They know they can stop him in his tracks. They know they can stay close to home ish on the other guys. They know they can help off Mobley if He's on the floor and not screening. And Wade and they'll dare Tyson, Tyson was a good shooter this year. And Schroeder, they're scrunching all the way in on them. And I mean they got on a little bit of rhythm when they started running hard. And Mobley pick and rolls in the second half with Allen in the dunker spot. And I do think that's their simplest offense is just get into the pick and roll like that. But they looked, I mean we're talking about Donovan Mitchell caught a pass out of bounds. James Harden committed the rare self back court violation more two or three instances of guys throwing the ball to players who thought the ball was going to be in another place or the passer thought the player was going to be in another place. What is Thomas Bryant doing on the court? Like why is he playing and why is he shooting threes with 18 on the shot clock? I think the single most depressing possession of the playoffs so far was Dennis Schroeder ran a pick and roll with someone, I don't remember who it was. Drove down toward like the Steve Nash spot under the basket and tried to skip this little skimmer pass to the corner. And I'm like, oh, there's a corner shooter. Who's he passing you in the corner? It's Thomas Bryant and the pass is low and Thomas Bryant drops it. I'm like, let me hold up for a second. Donovan Mitchell is on the floor. You have at your disposal Evan Mobley and Jared Allen. Now Sam Merrill was out in the second half and I think they need his shooting in this series. But you still have like real guys. And I'm watching a possession in the second round of the playoffs for a team that traded Darius Garland for James Harden, aging themselves up 10 years in one trade. And I'm watching Dennis Schroeder, God bless him, he's fine. He actually played pretty well. Try to throw a contested corner skimmer pass to Thomas Bryan with the idea that maybe Thomas Bryant will take a corner. 3. What am I watching? What's happening right now? And to me, if they lose this game tonight, yeah, they haven't lost the home game yet. The series doesn't start till the road team wins. Yada, yada, yada. I don't know, man. Can this team win 4 out of 5? They haven't won a road game yet in the playoffs. Detroit is beatable. Like they're good. Detroit's good. And they won that game. And they out physical them. They outplayed them. They have no good matchup for Cade. Like if their answer to Cade is more Dean Wade, that's just going to help Detroit's defense. And I wonder if even stress starts tonight and they just take a chance on. We just need more shooting on the floor. But this is a show me game for the Cavs. If they melt down in this game and it's a ugly Detroit win, people are going to start asking some pretty ugly questions about the Cavs. And like is this James Harden trade potentially a disaster? Even if you think Darius Garland is overpaid and hurt all the time.
- [52:30]
Mo De'Akill
They, they.
- [52:31]
Zach Lowe
I picked them to win this series. I picked cads in seven based on kind of sheer talent alone. Detroit obviously didn't blow anyone away in the first round of the playoffs. I'm just, I'm calling it out now at 10:30. We don't need to talk about it more. I was. Their, their offense was gross for most of the first round. I thought it would be less gross extricated from the switchy weird Toronto team. And it was just as gross and just as incoherent. And I don't know how we get to game like 95 or whatever and you're just this incoherent on offense.
- [53:02]
Mo De'Akill
I don't understand how you go into a playoff game that way. Like the watching the way they played this game. There were two things that stood out to me. One, they played with zero intentions. Right? Zero. Sort of how we. This is what we do. It's a lot of dribbling up on the court. We're gonna, we're gonna bounce around and then we'll, we'll find our way, you know, in that sense. And two. Zero force. Right. Like. And I know the Pistons are a big physical team, but you have to meet them where they're at sometimes and have to bump them and fight them here a little bit. The only person that really showed fight to me in the game for the Cavs was Max Truce. He had a great run for them when he was on the floor. And I think it's, it's. Everybody else was shocking. Like watching Duncan Robinson get forced turnovers on James Harden should never.
- [53:50]
Zach Lowe
How about the one where James Harden just fell over? Like just, just was dribbling and just kind of fell. It was like, oh, okay.
- [53:56]
Mo De'Akill
It's. It was, it was, it's. And I don't want to hear the game seven excuse because both teams were coming off of a game seven. You know, both teams were in that situation. So it's like this is a massively huge game for everything for the Cavs this game too.
- [54:12]
Zach Lowe
For people who are going to say, oh, you're hating on Harden. Harden brought them back in the game in the fourth quarter. He salvaged that game for himself and for the team in the fourth quarter and they had a chance to win it. And again, I picked the Cavs in seven because I'm like, they have these two star guards and they should be able to create functional offense because of it. So I don't want to hear that. But I just thought their performance was so disappointing. And you mentioned force and Kenny Atkinson. Good for him. Mentioned it after the game. It's a boring topic. But he ment mentioned like, can we set some screens? Their screening was so bad in game one. There was a pick and roll. Grant Hill has now talked about this a lot. The Spain pick and roll where it's a pick and roll and then somebody else sets a back screen on the screeners defender. So there's like a lot of screens involved. I think it was even like a staggered screen into a Spain pick and roll. So at least three screens are involved. They went 0 for 3. They completely whiffed on every screen. Nobody made contact with any pistons player. Everybody got off scot free. No one had to switch. No one had to rotate. There was absolutely no stress on the defense because the screens whiffed completely. Now sometimes, and we saw this with Kat last night, bigs who are in foul trouble are kind of like a little cautious setting screens. And Cat started to kind of set. You know, he whiffed on a lot of screens because he got as skinny as possible. For the Cavs, there was just no excuse and they played with no force. And this is a team like look, if they're, if they are down 2 0, it's going to be Cavs Con 1. If they lose this series and it's decisive, it's a complete disaster. And the off season gets very, very interesting for the Cavs from top to bottom. Speaking of the off season, let's take a break because you know where I'm headed in a couple of days.
- [55:47]
Mo De'Akill
M.O.
- [55:48]
Zach Lowe
chicago. The lottery is here. Let's talk about that when we come back. This episode is brought to you by new era. The 90s weren't just a decade. They were a moment. And now it's back. Introducing the new era. NBA Hardwood Classics 90s edition. Bringing back the golden era of basketball with iconic teams like the Bulls, the Rockets, the spurs, the Suns, the Pistons. Yeah, that's the 90s. That could be the teal Horse Pistons. The Hornets are the classic 90s team. The original teal stuff. The Hornet buzzing around any old school Bulls Warriors. That's the kind of stuff that I love. That's kind of the NBA Jam. The kind of stuff. That's what we're talking about. Plus 90s all star games caps complete with host team side patches for that authentic throwback feel. Available in a wide range of fitted and adjustable styles. Visit neweracap.com ringer to shop now and use the one time code Ringer for 20% off your first order this episode is brought to you by ebay. You guys know that watching basketball is my thing, obviously. But you know what else is? Collecting basketball memorabilia. And that's why you gotta love ebay. It's like a never ending merch store. Vintage basketball cards, old school jerseys, one off fan made artwork. On ebay you can always find whatever your thing is. From collectibles and vintage cars to designer fashion. It's all There are millions of finds, each with a story. Ebay Things people love. Okay, three off season storylines that kind of coalesce into one Jaylen Brown's Twitch stream and then a follow up Twitch stream Trying to clarify the first Twitch stream saying I love Boston. I want to be in Boston for the rest of my career. If it's up to me, he's extension eligible this summer. You might have heard they were eliminated in the first round by the Philadelphia 76ers. Called it his favorite season of the year of his career. Rather doubled down on that, saying it is my favorite season. In the Twitch follow up saying it is my favorite season. I think he was trying to say it was my favorite season because we were underdogs, idiots like me. Zach Lowe predicted the Celtics to go under their win total and we it's just more fun to play without the expectations and to exceed expectations and prove people wrong. I don't think he meant it necessarily as like, well, Jayson Tatum wasn't there and I got to cook. But he sort of emphasized the underdog angle of that. We have the Giannis thing and Jimmy Haslam, the Bucks owner, said yesterday that they would like to clarify the Giannis situation before the draft, which is like, oh, okay, Giannis. Giannis can't sign his extension till October. Obviously they can discuss it and he get an indication of whether he's going to sign it or not. But the Bucks. This feels like the Bucks trying to win a PR battle. A little bit of like, hey, it's up to him. We're going to make it up to him. Giannis has always been like, it's actually up to them. It's, it's up to everyone. And, and, but to say before the draft is okay, I mean, that means we want this transaction, transaction cycle, the Bucks do, to move on. If Giannis indicates he wants to move on. And I just want to applaud Jimmy Haslam at the end of this article I'm reading on ESPN.com I'm just going to quote him because these owners, they just can't. You just can't put a microphone in front of them without something embarrassing happening. Giannis has brought Milwaukee its second championship in the first in 50 years. Haslam said. We're off to a good start, Mo. We're doing well. You could just stop. Maybe stop there. He's a phenomenal player. He's a phenomenal person. Great. We're doing well. He's arguably one of the best basketball players. Oh, he's arguably one of the best basketball players in the world. What happens in your brain as Jimmy Haslam to stick arguably in there, like it's a small thing. It's, it's stupid that I'm overemphasizing it. He's not arguably one of the best basketball players in the world. He's one of the best basketball players in the world. It's a, it's a less egregious version of when Patrick Dumont, after the Luca trade, was listing off all the great players, all the great two way players and their commitment to being in shape and, and committed to their teams. And he listed Shaq, notoriously not in shape and not committed to his teams, and didn't list lifetime maverick champion Finals MVP Dirk Nowitzki. And everyone was like, can we stick this guy in a closet and never have him talk again? So the Giannis stuff, the Jalen Brown stuff, whatever it is, I don't think the Celtics want to trade Jaylen Brown by any stretch, but we will see what happens. And then the lottery is here and all of these things are obviously intertwined because teams are going to move up and teams are going to move down and does Atlanta. Atlanta, between the Milwaukee pick and the New Orleans pick, has about a 40% chance of landing in the top four. Does a top four pick make them more likely to go all in for a player like Giannis or Jaylen Brown? I would argue it should actually make them less likely to go in for such a player and just take the pick and be happy and move on with life. You have lots at stake for lots of teams. So let's do some lottery fun. What is the who? Let's start with like the actual serious conversation. Who has the most at stake, in your opinion, in Sunday's ping pong extravaganza?
- [61:08]
Mo De'Akill
I really think it's actually the Indiana Pacers. I think when you look at where they're at, as if they can get one of the top four picks, like, this is going to take them to another level. Like, I love the way they're set up with Tyrese Halliburton, with the trade for Zubac, you know, with what they have with Pascal.
- [61:29]
Zach Lowe
Let's, let's clarify for people just before you start. Indiana traded its pick to the Clippers top four, protected and protected from 10 on, meaning the Pacers keep it if it's 1, 2, 3 or 4, and the Clippers get it if it's 5, 6, 7, 8 or 9.
- [61:47]
Mo De'Akill
Yeah, and I think this has a chance to really set them up to be a true power in the East.
- [61:55]
Zach Lowe
It can only be five or six, by the way. So the Clippers get. If it's five or six,
- [62:00]
Mo De'Akill
they can go in that sense of like Finals last year lottery this year right back into the thick of things in the Eastern Conference. They're going to be right there already. But then also have a young caliber player, regardless who they pick, that they can kind of set up to sort of almost work their way into the system. Like, for me, that is such a massive opportunity for them. If, like, I know the, I know all the, the low franchise, the Washingtons, the Sacramento's, all that, it would be game changing for them to have a franchise player. But this is a team that's already set to be kind of in the running to be a contender next year. To be able to add a top four pick would be so just, it would just set them up for so long.
- [62:51]
Zach Lowe
Assuming Halliburton is healthy, both from the Achilles and the shingles stuff that's been troubling him. And like, that's, you know, I had shingles, by the way, when I was like 22 years old and it was just itchy for me. I got it on my side and it's like, it's. I got very lucky. Like, if you get it when you're older or like Tyrese got it on his face, that's, that's, that's nasty stuff. My pick, I had, I had four candidates for this honor of most at State. Both Indiana and the Clippers were among my top four. This is just a huge swing moment for both of these franchises. If the Pacers keep this pick, which they have a 52% chance of doing, so it's almost a coin flip. They add an A plus draft prospect to their core. They also add a big trade asset. I just don't think it's in the Pacers DNA to take an opportunity like that, like a franchise that has really never tanked or very rarely tanked. They tanked this year, obviously. To bring a player like that into a core that is actually like not even that old. I don't. I think they just keep that player and are thrilled about the bridge that they've built themselves for many years going forward. If the Clippers don't get this pick, it rolls over into a 2031 unprotected Pacers pick, which could be a good asset. 2031, who knows what the hell is going on in the world. And if the Clippers do get it, they get not a top four pick, but five or six in a pretty deep draft. And again, a rare chance for them, having traded so much stuff to Oklahoma City, including their own pick in this lottery.
- [64:26]
Mo De'Akill
Right? Yes.
- [64:28]
Zach Lowe
To get a blue chip player on that. They just haven't had this chance in a long time and they just went younger with Garland as well. And so I think it's a huge swing moment for both. Ironically, the Thunder moving up in the draft with the Clippers pick would help the Clippers get the Pacers pick, would embarrass the shit out of the Clippers. But still, I have two other candidates. Can you give my two other candidates for most at stake?
- [64:52]
Mo De'Akill
Yeah, go for it.
- [64:54]
Zach Lowe
Number one is Atlanta, which I already mentioned. And I think again, if it were me running the Hawks and I get a top four pick, I'm just keeping the pick and I'm building around Jalen Johnson and Akongwu and Nikhil Alexander, Walker and Dyson and maybe Kaminga stays. Whatever. I'm just like, I have a good team. Resign. C.J. not going to speed it up. If I fall to eighth or ninth or. I mean, where can I really. There's. There's a lot of scenarios in play for them. If I fall somewhere else, I might be a little bit more open to that pick. Plus rise Ashe. Plus a lot of stuff for somebody. Could be Giannis, could be again they have the Milwaukee pick this year and some part of it next year. It could be Jalen Brown. It could be somebody so Atlanta and just the other team. Is anything good ever going to happen for Sacramento? Like you just like at some point you Got to make your own luck. I understand it. And this and this. The Kings have done nothing to get the lottery gods on their side. We all know that. But at some point, this team has moved down in the lottery a bunch of times. Then they missed the picks that they pick in the lottery. Shout out Marvin Bagley and many, many others. I don't mean to pick on Marvin Bagley, but Luka was just sitting there for them. And they said, hey, you know what? We like this guy from Duke. They even lost the coin flip with Utah for the fourth spot in the lottery. By the way, Utah went from. That coin flip, went From, I think, 99.6% chance of keeping their pick to 100% chance of keeping their pick for the Jazz. The top eight pick they owed Oklahoma City. So there was even a little bit of sweating for the Jazz to do. So those are my four. I mean, like, you could argue Washington is the other sad sacker. Brooklyn having just picked five picks, Brooklyn's got a big market. They'll get a free agent at some point. Maybe they'll trade for a big guy this summer. I don't know. Washington, enough. You got a lot of bites at the apple. You got some interesting young players. Sacramento. It's like Nate Clifford's all right. I've actually kind of liked the way Nate Clifford finished the season. Reynaud, I put on first team all rookie. I just don't. I just don't really know what his upside is, given his defensive limitations. And, you know, Devin Carter, they don't play very much. And Keegan Murray's fine. He's overpaid. Just. It would be nice for Kings fans to get something.
- [67:11]
Mo De'Akill
I feel for the Kings fan, but I'm so worried about this organization ruining another young player. Right. Like drafting high a player where it's like, I don't understand their development philosophy. And, you know, like, a lot of young guys got minutes at the end of the season this year, and. And there are some guys that are promising, like you talked about. We both like Renault. There's Nick Clifford. There's a lot of that stuff. But it's like, I just. I don't want to. I don't trust them to get. To actually develop and get the most out of a player. So for me, I'm kind of don't want them to get the lottery because of that. I don't want them to win the lottery because of that.
- [67:53]
Zach Lowe
What is your funniest possible lottery outcome?
- [67:57]
Mo De'Akill
Okay, my funniest possible lottery outcome was I actually think it'd be kind of hilarious if Dallas won it again.
- [68:07]
Zach Lowe
Okay, that's. That's not a bad candidate.
- [68:09]
Mo De'Akill
You know, they. The odds, like, look, 6.7% overall, number one. You know, top four, 29% before the tanking rules all change and everything that goes into it. Like, I think it'd be kind of one. I like, I like that they got Masai run their front office now. I like the way they're kind of set up with Cooper. Why not get him another running mate? Let's go. I think it'd be pretty funny to me if they got the number one pick.
- [68:39]
Zach Lowe
My pick was for funniest possible outcome is the New Orleans pick being the number one pick in the draft in Atlanta. Getting it would be the. Would be to me, the apologies to New Orleans fans, one of my favorite cities on the planet. It would still be funny. I don't know if I texted you this in time, but I wanted. I wanted to pick what would be this year's Dallas, where a team wins it, and people are like, really? They deserve that after what they did. Who would be. Do you. Do you have a pick for this? Like, who would be this year's. They win the lottery, and you're like, oh, why they got it?
- [69:11]
Mo De'Akill
I think the. I think the answer to me would actually be Golden State, but not for the win. Like, the why, but more just like, really, they're gonna win the lottery. Like, this is. We're gonna. They're gonna get the. The. The. The hall pass going forward now after they've, you know, the last few drafts where they're in the lottery. They. They. They botched, you know, with everything. James Wiseman, Jonathan Kaminga, all that stuff. We've rehashed that a million times. But, like, to me, they would be. It would be kind of the moment where it's like, really, they're gonna win the lottery. And
- [69:47]
Zach Lowe
my pick for this year's Dallas, and I'm not going to step on Bill did his karma rankings yesterday, which are delightful with Nick Wright. Awesome podcast. So I'm not going to do the karma. I'm just picking this year's Dallas for me would be Chicago. Chicago wins the lottery. And I would be like, we already saw this with Derrick Rose. Like, no plan now. They just hired Bryson Graham, who I think is really good, and we'll do a good job there, but completely rudderless for so long. About to enter a period where being. If the lottery rules change, where being in the middle is suddenly, like, more profitable after years of. They were in the Middle and it was not profitable. And they shoot up from number nine to get the number one pick. I think that would be this year's. This year's Chicago. Do you have a worst case scenario like most feared possible outcome for the league?
- [70:32]
Mo De'Akill
It's the. You already touched on it. It's the Clippers pick going.
- [70:36]
Zach Lowe
There's no other answer.
- [70:37]
Mo De'Akill
It's happened before to the Clippers. Right. This is the Clippers number one pick. And then it went to Cleveland Kyrie Irving because for Kyrie Irving when they it was the Baron Davis trade that they had made sure it's happened before to them. So it's kind of in one way the whole league does not want this and at the same time it might actually be the funniest outcome.
- [71:01]
Zach Lowe
I don't think it would be funny. I think it would be. I think it would be like a horror movie villain got more powers or something.
- [71:12]
Mo De'Akill
Yes,
- [71:14]
Zach Lowe
I honestly it would be funny in the room because I'm going to be in the drawing room again. Someone might weep in that. Like either the Clippers representative or just someone on a Western Conference team might just be like might weep. I could see someone maybe just going up and did you watch the show? I think you recommended the show to me. Platonic.
- [71:35]
Mo De'Akill
Yes, yes.
- [71:36]
Zach Lowe
Solid show. And one of my favorite running bits in the show is Seth Rogen just kicking the E scooters down every time he sees them because he just finds them annoying. I think someone might do that with the ping bong ball machine if it spits up Oklahoma City like some disgruntled person might get banned from the league for just knocking the thing over and fleeing the scene. Okay, let's talk about Jaylen Brown. I dropped my notes. I don't know if this is going to be a thing. It's too early for me to know if it's going to be a thing. I do know that the Celtics just lost in the first round of the playoffs, that Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown Make $112 million Give or take between them next year and that only escalates that Jalen Brown is extension eligible now after, well, once the summer starts. Despite having three more guaranteed years left on his deal at 57, 61 and 65. So if you're extending him right now when he's eligible. That extension doesn't even kick in until 2029, 2030 when he's 32 years old. He's 29 and a half ish now and it start it's presumably Jaylen Brown's not Going to be like, I'll sign a cheapo extension now. So you're looking at a $70 million plus extension. And it raised eyebrows around Boston when he said, this was my favorite year of my career. Not the championship year, not the finals MVP year, all that. So who knows if there will be any movement on this again. I don't think Boston wants to trade Jaylen Brown. And Jaylen Brown, to his credit, has it came out yesterday and said, I want to be in Boston. He has really embraced Boston, the community, the fans, which we will talk about the Celtic tradition. It seems to really matter to him. That's awesome. It's still a cold business, and who knows what will happen. Did you watch the Twitch stream? You're. You're a what, You're a Twitch veteran?
- [73:34]
Mo De'Akill
I'm a Twitch veteran. I used to have a Twitch channel. I did not watch the Twitch stream. I did have a Boston friend of mine send me some highlights. You know, it was. It was during the playoff game, so it wasn't. I didn't want to kind of lose my attention too much. So I did not, I did not lock in on the Jalen Brown Twitch stream.
- [73:54]
Zach Lowe
I dove in yesterday. I was like, I just gotta. I. I want to see the first. The raw document.
- [74:00]
Mo De'Akill
That's impressive. I. You. You. You're learned. You picked up Twitch.
- [74:05]
Zach Lowe
Well, I don't have a Twitch app. You can just watch it, apparently.
- [74:08]
Mo De'Akill
Yeah.
- [74:09]
Zach Lowe
Or a Twitch account or whatever. I'm not a twitcher and I expected to just watch the main part where he talks about how it's his favorite year and just get out of it. I watched like 40 minutes of it. I was totally mesmerized. I have never felt more out of touch in my entire life than I did for those 40 minutes. I just had no idea what was happening. I. I was mesmerized and I like by everything. So I was mesmerized by. He really thinks there's an officiating conspiracy against him.
- [74:52]
Mo De'Akill
Yeah, that's.
- [74:54]
Zach Lowe
Which he does get called for a lot of offensive fouls. Like the off. The push off thing is very simple. If your whole arm comes out, you're probably going to get called for an offensive foul. Now, if you hold it like this and only the forearm is there, you're not gonna get called for it. He puts his whole arm out a lot. He talked a lot about. How about people who turn their brains off because of. I think because of analytics and people turn their brains off in analytics and the media. I'm like, I don't he's onto something because he's right. He talked about how people don't watch the games anymore, and I think there's something to that. But I don't think analytics is the reason why people. Less people watch the actual games now than they used to. And not everyone in the media is like that. Some. Some of us do watch the games. He seemed mad that expectations for the team changed when they became. When they exceeded expectations, which, like, that's what happens. You people had low expectations for you then you won 57 games. And so, yeah, it's going to be disappointing when you lose in the first round. But he was. It's obviously, Jalen is a super smart guy. He's spoken at Harvard and mit. He does tons of community work. He's a very engaging speaker. But I did feel like I was watching a portal into a different universe that I did not know existed. And in that universe, Jaylen Brown is friends with, like, dudes from Celtics Twitter who are in his house or in his studio. They come in after game seven, they all sit with him, and he's like, here's this guy, here's that guy. Hey, you want to sit and give your thoughts on the season? And they sit there and they pontificate about the season, almost talking like they're part of the team. And I was just like, so this is. I'm so old and out of touch that people really do make friends with Twitter people in real life and including superstar basketball players and fans. And they're at his house. It's not like they're DMing on some stream or something. They're at his house. I. I was absolutely mesmerized by everything. I have no notes. I now want to watch more Jaylen Brown. I. There's a whole world out there that I didn't know existed of people doing this.
- [77:13]
Mo De'Akill
It's. It's an amazing way.
- [77:14]
Zach Lowe
1.
- [77:15]
Mo De'Akill
It's an awesome way to actually get a look into his thoughts and credit to him for his candor. I personally, if I was part of the team, I personally wouldn't want.
- [77:27]
Zach Lowe
Well, the people who said it was loser behavior to blame the refs are right. It was loser behavior to blame the refs. You blew a 31 lead. It's fine. The Sixers were awesome. Embiid flops. Yeah, we know Embiid flops. Lots of people. Floppy Trump. It's fine.
- [77:39]
Mo De'Akill
But. But I'm. But beyond that to me, like, I don't. I don't mind this stuff. I like that he came out and Said no, this is what I meant by those comments. Yeah. Just, just, just to defend him a little bit too.
- [77:51]
Zach Lowe
He was not criticizing him. I'm just saying I was mesmerized by the whole thing.
- [77:56]
Mo De'Akill
Not you, but others who are, who are criticizing, like he was an MVP candidate this year. Like, yeah, it was a dessert.
- [78:04]
Zach Lowe
Deservedly so.
- [78:06]
Mo De'Akill
Yeah. Like it's a fun ass season for him. Like, yeah, it didn't go the way he wanted. You know, fine. But like he gets to say, like, yeah, this was one of my favorite seasons. I got to have a lot of fun doing this. Like, there's nothing wrong with that that I don't have any qualms with.
- [78:23]
Zach Lowe
And it is, it is fun proving people wrong. It absolutely is. And it's fun doing it with a bunch of guys who have been cast offs and written off in their career. Even Peyton Pritchard three years ago was like, is he even going to be on the Celtics? And. But you throw Keita Garza, Hugo Jordan Walsh like these, it's probably fun to be, to spearhead all of that.
- [78:42]
Mo De'Akill
Yeah. So I think there's a lot, a lot of that stuff there. I like the Twitch stream. I like that he did it. Does it. I personally don't. I'm not going to partake in it. I'm not a big, I'm not going to jump in and I'm just going to focus on the basketball side. But it is amazing the friendships he's developed with Twitter, Boston Twitter fans and things like that. That. And that shows them ingrained in the community too though. And right. Like in that circle.
- [79:10]
Zach Lowe
I just.
- [79:11]
Mo De'Akill
Big.
- [79:11]
Zach Lowe
I, I just was not aware that this is happening and they're all, they clearly like know him well. They're all in there. He's name checking all of them. They're sitting down as part of the stream. I think it's, it's just maybe I need to make more friends through. So maybe I'm. I've missed the boat on this, Zach.
- [79:30]
Mo De'Akill
I can't wait for the next time I'm on the pod with you and there's going to be people that are on the Zach Lowe Reddit that are going to be hanging out in your office there and telling me what's. What you're going to be telling me. This is so and so. And this is so and so. Honestly, it's either.
- [79:45]
Zach Lowe
It's either that or my daughter's hot take on the Mets or actually my wife and I have a running bit. She's probably overhearing this from The Living Room, where she doesn't follow the NBA at all. She wants. She wants to come on my podcast for two reasons. Number one, to make fun of me and tell the world how actually insane I am. And number two, we have a running bit where I'll ask her, like, hey, so what do you think about Timberwolves, spurs, game two? And she'll give analysis without any knowledge, and she'll be like, you know, I mean, it's like Minnesota, it's been a rocky year for them. And like, like, you know, they need to step up under pressure. And. And the spurs, you know, their favorites here. Like, they got to even up the series. And I. And I will actually tell her, like, you're 80% of the way there.
- [80:30]
Mo De'Akill
You're nailing it. You're nailing it. That's awesome.
- [80:36]
Zach Lowe
Or my daughter's hot takes on the Mets and she has a lot. Okay, can we do Jaylen Brown fake trades just for fun?
- [80:43]
Mo De'Akill
Yes. I'm just a caveat. I have a couple, but I am. I am not nearly a trade machine Picasso. Like, I met, like, you, and, well,
- [80:53]
Zach Lowe
there's only one trade. There's only one trade machine Picasso. This is just a thought exercise, just because I think it was notable that he said the thing that he said, and it's going to certainly, like, teams are going to pick up the phone when things like that happen. I'm not saying that teams have called. I don't know if teams have called first. The obvious one that people have already talked about is Jalen for Giannis, Whether it's straight up, whether Boston throws in picks, whatever. I mean, we don't need to belabor. Giannis is amazing. He brings a rim attacking element that Celtics don't have. He's only two years older than Jalen. What do you think about that trade, notably from the Bucks perspective?
- [81:35]
Mo De'Akill
For the Bucks perspective, it's bringing in a piece in terms of, like, okay, we can go win right now. Not. Not a champion, but we can go win. We're in a situation where we're going to go win games. We're not going to tank. We're going to build around Jalen. It's going to be interesting to see how him and how it works with him and Miles Turner and the pick and roll and how that can kind of develop. They're still, you know, I'm assuming they're still just going to have everybody else with them, but this is. Hey, Jalen, this is your team. Go to work now. We just saw, you know, what he did for this past season. You know obviously he's not going to have quite the same amount of talent around him. I think that Bucks team still has a lot more work, but I think giving him opportunity to kind of just blossom as just this is solely your team go. I think it's interesting I think pairing him with Taylor Jenkins. I think Jenkins would be able to do some good stuff with him and put him in good situations and good spots. Like I kind of like that for Milwaukee. We know that they can't really tank knowing their situation with draft picks. So I think this is one of those things where when they're going to make a Giannis trade if and when they got to find a way to make it so that we're not just going to be absolutely terrible because unless we're getting our picks back from Portland,
- [82:51]
Zach Lowe
it's a relevancy trade for them for sure. It's a we don't want to bottom out particularly when the lottery rules are going to change the way they might small market we get a we get a guy who might make first team all NBA this year and again deservedly I put Jalen Brown first team all NBA. To be clear Jalen Brown. I still I and again they'll get a good pick in this draft because they get the lesser of the their pick in the Pelicans pick. So they'll get a top whatever pick and like yeah you start to this is they're going to be their case to honest like another maybe we nail this draft blah blah blah like it it's not I I don't I don't hate it for the Bucks. It's fine if if your goal is to stay relevant and stay afloat. I don't know that I would necessarily aim that way. I do worry and this is more an indictment on the NBA financial structure than anything else that Jaylen Brown's next contract is going to be a complete albatross and that sucks. That's just the reality of the seniority scale, the cap, the tax etc. And it's why I keep lobbying for things like if Boston were to extend him and keep him homegrown superstar on a max or supermax you should get some kind of cap apron tax relief if you have player like that on your team or maybe two players like that on your team because it just it shouldn't be a detriment to draft well, play well, win and keep the players that your fans have grown to love. It shouldn't be like crippling to do that now if he gets traded to the Bucks, he's not on the Celtics anymore. It's a different story. There are multiple three way trades you could do if the Bucks want to aim differently than that. Bill and Nick Wright talked about Atlanta. Atlanta gets Jalen, Boston gets Giannis, the Bucks get picks from everybody, including their own stuff back from Atlanta. I think Atlanta is an interesting just straight up trade partner. Atlanta, Boston straight up. Depending on what kind of picks they'd like to move, what Boston, how rehabilitatable Boston thinks Rishi is as a prospect. I don't love the salary that would have to go to the Celtics in that deal from either perspective. Like I don't love it if I'm Boston and I don't love how many core players I'd have to give up if I'm Atlanta. Whether it's Daniels plus Kaminga plus Riseache plus on and on. But there could be something there I like. I think there's a fun three way trade where Giannis goes to Boston, Jalen Brown goes to Portland and Portland sends both salary and picks, notably Milwaukee's own picks and Boston sends picks and stuff back to Milwaukee and it's a full rebuild mode. I could keep going but why don't you give me one of your favorite ones.
- [85:32]
Mo De'Akill
So one of my favorite ones and I focused mainly on Western Conference teams and I was trying to make sure Boston had some pieces back in that way. And so I'm going to start with I went with the New Orleans Pelicans.
- [85:47]
Zach Lowe
Okay. They're on my list.
- [85:48]
Mo De'Akill
I have. I, I wanted to figure out a way to get them Zion but didn't really figure that one out. But I went with Dejante Murray, Trey Murphy III and they get the Pelicans first round pick next year, 2027 for, for Brown.
- [86:03]
Zach Lowe
That's one you have to think about because Trey Murphy III is that coveted around the league. I also played around with Zion possibilities. Again if I'm New Orleans, I just, I'm not, I'm not sure what the point of that is but it does get me a better best player. It's an interesting one. And again if you're Boston, you're talking about not only turning Jaylen Brown into multiple pieces that help you win now, it's resetting your finances a little bit going forward and hoping to nail the balance of we're still going to be very competitive in the Eastern Conference, if not one of the prime, probably one of the favorites and have a little bit more financial flexibility and pick up some youth in A pick or whatever in the process.
- [86:46]
Mo De'Akill
I have one more, I have a crazy one no go that says there's
- [86:50]
Zach Lowe
no such thing as too crazy.
- [86:51]
Mo De'Akill
Kind of, kind of nuts.
- [86:52]
Zach Lowe
Luka Doncic got traded for Anthony Davis. There's no such thing as too crazy.
- [86:57]
Mo De'Akill
It really sucks that Nico Harrison has removed the ability of us having just crazy wild ones. But do we finally get a Kawhi Leonard Jalen Brown trade?
- [87:08]
Zach Lowe
I don't, I don't think that's, I don't think that's crazy at all. That's on my list.
- [87:11]
Mo De'Akill
And I have the, and I have the I threw the Clippers have to throw in a 2030 first round pick.
- [87:16]
Zach Lowe
Oh yeah, you got to attach something to Kawhi.
- [87:21]
Mo De'Akill
With Kawhi's contract expiring after next year, they can kind of, if they want to just, hey, let's get out of cap hell after that. I think it's interesting for me, that's, that's one where I would take a hard look for the Clippers, Garland and Brown as my, my core for the next few, few years. Like, I kind of like where they're set up.
- [87:39]
Zach Lowe
I, I, it's on my list. If I'm Boston, I just think he's too much of an injury risk and I just, I can't do it. But the word you used there was finally, because obviously Jaylen Brown was the piece that would have moved in any number of theoretical Danny Ainge. Boston trades for Paul George, for Jimmy Butler, for Kawhi Leonard, and also notably post Danny Ainge for Kevin Durant and the Rockets are on my list. And it's interesting how the tables have turned in 2022 when Durant issued a trade request to get out of Brooklyn, the Celtics were one of the hot names. And I wrote back then that I would not trade Jalen Brown and others. It would have been other stuff for Durant. And part of the reason is I, I there were many reasons, but number one, it's, I hate trading up in age. And it was from 25 to 33 at that point. Jalen to KD I wrote about how there's a very good possibility Jalen Brown has not peaked, and particularly that he's developing as a playmaker a little bit later in his career. That turned out to be right. And I wrote that at that time the Celtics were coming off a Finals appearance and we're already one of the favorites, if not the favorite, to win the championship next year. And so yeah, Durant might make me more of a favorite now because of his fit with Tatum, his malleability, his Kevin Durant four years ago. But I'm not sure he bumps my odds up today enough for the damage to tomorrow. And so sure enough, the Celtics didn't do it and they won the championship. Two years later. Now you're aging up from 29 to 37. So Jalen Brown is now approaching age 30 instead of right in the meat of his prime. It's much more likely that he has peaked that this year is his peak which what a peak. You have won the title with this core. You've achieved that and you are now in position where you get the extra stuff from Houston. For Kevin Durant it's and Houston just gets to get out of the Durant experience reset its its age roster a little bit but still have a superstar talent coming in. I think it's interesting. I think multiple picks probably have to go to Boston. I don't know if I can get that net swap next year which is super valuable. Probably not ultimately I think I think Durant has reached an age where I'm just not going to that's not the guy I'm going for from Boss. He's too old and there's just too much noise everywhere he goes now. So but it' it's interesting to think about.
- [90:15]
Mo De'Akill
Yeah, it's a tough it's tough to kind of bank on that and just again like the way the the past few teams with Durant have gone as well. It's a bit frustrating. Like I don't know if you really want to sign up for that if you're Boston in in that way and you know, although it would be podcast gold for us with with Bill talking about KD in Boston. That'd be a lot of fun for for the podcast world. But I don't think that's something you're I think the KD run is him being the most sought after guy is probably coming to an end pretty quickly.
- [90:54]
Zach Lowe
Okay. Some other ones just for shits and giggles as they say the obvious. Not obvious but like the teams that have assets and the ability to win for Jalen Brown not for honest Toronto can get into any conversation they want. I don't see a Jalen Brown trade happening there for various reasons. I don't think he's their type. I don't think he's their guy that they're going to go all in on at that money. And they also just have the contracts they would trade are just contracts no one is really itching to get right now. To me Again we talked about already. But if Cleveland loses this series, they're just anything's on the table for them. I don't even know what the trade would be like. Do you start. I mean Mobley, I think they would be very hesitant to do but like I just don't know what I. Maybe there is no trade for that reason but Miami always has to be mentioned with Giannis and. Or Jalen Brown. Same kind of packages, you know, picks young guys, hero Wiggins, blah blah blah. Just. Just to do it. Sign and trade Austin Reeves plus all three, plus all the picks for Jalen Brown. Just to mention the Lakers. They'd have to throw in more money. Don't see that one. Celtics and Lakers don't trade with each other. Warriors have four first round picks. I just. The salary. Getting to the salary is very, very hard. Yeah, the one wild card that I kind of thought was interesting. I'm just making this up out of whole cloth to be clear is would Brooklyn ever do something with Michael Porter Jr. Plus salary filler plus they have a. I mean I don't know how many picks it would take but they have like Knicks picks up the wazoo. They have a big Nuggets pick in 2032. Michael Porter Jr. Makes less money. He'll be on an expiring contract. He brings a plus three point shooting. He's younger than Jalen Brown. Is he injury prone? Maybe. And the Nets get. Hey, we have a superstar. He's not very. He's 29. Maybe we can get another star in the door with some of our other assets. I don't think that's crazy. I do feel like Michael Porter Jr's game and just General Michael Porter Jr. Ness is maybe a little volatile for a team that's moving off a tent pole. Beloved superstar Finals mvp. I tried with Sacramento. I just. I can't do it. You keep trying.
- [93:21]
Mo De'Akill
Don't banish him to Sacramento. Have that. Don't.
- [93:25]
Zach Lowe
I tried with. I tried with Charlotte just because I do think Charlotte has. They've just got a ton of stuff and they're clearly ripe for a little bit of a win. Now move. But again, like I'm just not parting out of my. I'm not doing Kippo. I'm not doing Miller.
- [93:40]
Mo De'Akill
I'm not.
- [93:41]
Zach Lowe
I mean lamelo. I. I don't know that Paulson is going to be interested in that and I'm not do. I'm not messing with what happened in Charlotte.
- [93:48]
Mo De'Akill
Leave. Leave Charlotte alone. I have one more little wild one. But how about Jamal Murray for Jalen Brown.
- [93:57]
Zach Lowe
I thought about that a little bit.
- [93:59]
Mo De'Akill
Like, if. If. I mean, salary has to be sent, you know, the. The Nuggets have to send a little more. But I'm wondering if that's something you. You actually have. You have to have the conversation about it. Both teams do. I mean, for Denver, you're going to lose a primary ball handler for a team that doesn't really have a ton of actual ball handlers. And, you know, for the Celtics, you're defensively, you're taking a hit with Jamal, but you're adding a lot of offensive firepower as well. Like, he's going to make up a little bit for what Jalen does offensively, but you can't do. Obviously the defense side of it's going to take a hit, but hopefully Tatum's coming back ready to go all next year. You're. You gotta think about it, what a
- [94:45]
Zach Lowe
sea change that would be for both teams in terms of style, personnel. Obviously with Denver, you have this sort of wing defense thing that they don't. I mean, they did not have because of injuries, but you have. You'd have to resolve the Cam Johnson, Peyton Watson contract. Like, all of that would have to be resolved. And then if you're Boston, like, do a Murray, Pritchard, White. It's a lot of point guards. Ish. I mean, Derek White kind of flamed out at the end of the season, but he's still Derek White. It's interesting. It was on my list. I just still think the most likely outcome, by a lot is that Jalen Brown is on the Celtics next year and Jason Tatum's on the Celtics next year. They tweak around the edges a little bit. They have a repeater tax issue that they have to deal with. I'm interested to see how they navigate that because in the end, shedding all that veteran talent did hurt them, particularly on the front line. Once the playoffs got going and Joel Embiid came back, it's going to be interesting. Well, look, in four days, when I get out of that ballroom in Chicago, the landscape of the league will be a little clearer for the next couple of months. And given what Jimmy Haslam said about Giannis, buckle up. Because the off season unofficially starts at the combine when all the agents are there and all the teams are there and I will be there, too. And everyone's going to be whispering and huddling and having conversations and meetings at the fancy hotel. It's a fun time. Mota kill. You're in New York this week. Tell people why?
- [96:11]
Mo De'Akill
Yeah, I'm in New York. I'm working with the NBA. We are putting on a show for X. It's called X Live. It is basically a pre game show with me, Alexis Morgan, Zach Harper. We're about two hours before tip off we go for an hour. We have a lot of fun. Obviously the three of us are all breaking down things. I have a video segment, Zach. I get to go to the board like Kenny Smith.
- [96:34]
Zach Lowe
Look at that.
- [96:35]
Mo De'Akill
X's and Mo's. I do my whole video breakdown. So we have a lot of fun. You're going to learn some stuff, get it, get you ready for the games and honestly, like it's been a lot of fun to do. We're doing this all the way till I think game fives of the second round. So make sure you're checking that out. Today will be 5:30 Eastern.
- [96:54]
Zach Lowe
There you go. And the usual double dribble podcast with Jared Dubin offside. All of that. Mo, you're the best. Appreciate your time. Have fun on the X show today.
- [97:02]
Mo De'Akill
Thank you for having me, Zach. And enjoy the draft lottery. I know you will.
- [97:06]
Zach Lowe
Oh yeah. All right, that's it for today's episode. Thanks to Mo De Kill. As always, thanks to Mike, Billy and Jonathan on production. Thanks to you all for listening to and or watching the Zach Low show. We'll be back next week with some post lottery reaction and of course analysis of all the big playoff games that are going on. Check us out. Thank you for listening to and or watching The Zach Low Show. 21 or over and President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President, D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincenetic or is it mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland? Hope is here. Visit gamblinghealine ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-Hopeny or text HOPE NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.