LaMelo Ball to the Timberwolves! Reactions and Grades. Plus, Mets Corner!

Summary

The Zach Lowe Show – “LaMelo Ball to the Timberwolves! Reactions and Grades. Plus, Mets Corner!”

Date: June 25, 2026
Host: Zach Lowe
Guests: John Krasinski (The Athletic), Mo D’Kiel (Bleacher Report, Double Dribble), Sean Fennessey (The Ringer)

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Episode Overview

On this episode, Zach Lowe dives deep into the blockbuster NBA trade sending LaMelo Ball from the Charlotte Hornets to the Minnesota Timberwolves, breaking down the deal from all angles. Guests John Krasinski and Mo D’Kiel join to analyze the trade’s implications for both franchises, assess the market logic for each side, and discuss what it means for the Western Conference. Additional segments explore the Hornets’ direction, touches on other league rumors (including the Warriors’ roster, LeBron’s future), and closes with an extended “Mets Corner” dissecting the current calamity and despair among New York Mets fans.

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Main Theme

Blockbuster alert: The Minnesota Timberwolves have acquired LaMelo Ball and Josh Green from the Charlotte Hornets for Nas Reid and a major trove of draft assets. The move signals a massive identity shift in Minnesota and a bold new direction in Charlotte—prompting questions about risk, reward, and the long-term thinking on both sides. The episode also features a cathartic, detailed dive into the Mets’ latest collapse.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. LaMelo Ball Trade Breakdown

[00:39–05:29] — Zach Lowe, John Krasinski, Mo D’Kiel

• Minnesota Side:

  • Timberwolves give up Nas Reid (fan favorite), an unprotected 2033 first-round pick, three pick swaps (2028–2030), and three second-rounders for LaMelo and Josh Green.
  • Offseason reshuffle: Julius Randle and now Nas Reid (2 of 3 key bigs) out; sizeable shift to a smaller, faster, guard-driven team paired with Anthony Edwards.
  • “A complete sea change of identity. A gamble on one of the most polarizing players in the NBA. Is it a smart gamble? ... Does this give them any kind of shot to compete in the Western Conference? Is it the wrong player to go all in on?” — Zach Lowe [00:34]
  • Wolves’ front office has been relentless in chasing star trades, first with Gobert, now LaMelo.
  • Anticipated further moves—likely to fill void at power forward.

• Charlotte Side:

  • Sheds LaMelo after his healthiest and best season, signaling a ruthless pivot to the future—despite on-court success and fan enthusiasm.
  • “A fascinating vote of no confidence by the Hornets in LaMelo Ball after his healthiest season in a long time.” — Zach Lowe [01:16]
  • Kobe White reportedly set to take over as starting PG on a 3-year/$74M deal.

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2. Minnesota’s Gamble: Fit & Risk

[06:00–10:50]

• Is this going to work for Minnesota? — Big question punctuated by the irreversible nature of the trade assets spent and the need to supplement Anthony Edwards’ load.
• John Krasinski: Timberwolves have been actively targeting LaMelo for years; believe his passing, playmaking, and shot creation are a perfect fit next to Edwards.
  • “The overwhelming reaction [inside the Timberwolves] has been elation...people are just doing backflips over there right now about being able to get him.” — John Krasinski [06:47]
• Mo D’Kiel: Gives trade a “C+” due to price and concerns about missed future opportunities (“Did you really have to fire [your last bullet] right now?”), defensive worries, and depth issues.

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3. Letter Grades: Varying Evaluations for the Wolves

[10:50–16:00]

• Zach pushes back on “C+” grades; sees opportunity cost as manageable since Wolves lacked assets for true “tier one” stars, affirms faith in LaMelo’s upside. He gives the deal a B/B+.
  • “As many people know, am one of the top 10% LaMelo fans in the national media. I think he’s been wildly underrated this entire time … I thought he cleaned up a lot of that last year when he got a real team around him.” — Zach Lowe [14:01]
  • LaMelo’s “carnival-esque” play, late-game brain farts, and defensive lapses noted, but improved last season. Potential for better fit as clear No.2 behind Ant in a defense-strong culture.

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4. Charlotte's Motivations and Outlook Post-Trade

[16:00–23:08]

• Why did Charlotte give up on LaMelo? (Krasinski: “Why another organization gives up on an ultra popular player when he’s 24 years old?” [16:00])
  • Charlotte’s logic: Health risks, doubts LaMelo can hold up physically in playoff series, and skepticism about his ability to lead in “serious” postseason basketball.
  • Selling high after LaMelo’s best run; unlocks cap and asset flexibility to build around Miller and Knipple.
  • “This trade says ... we just don’t think we can win the biggest games with this guy on our team.” — Zach Lowe [21:45]

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5. Implications for Both Franchises

[24:44–30:20]

• Minnesota loses more than just a versatile big; Nas Reid’s “cultural” impact and cult hero status looms large.
  • “He was as popular as Anthony Edwards was here locally...There are thousands of people in Minnesota with Nas Reid tattoos on them.” — John Krasinski [28:49]
• Charlotte must prove the move doesn’t set them back too far—betting on Miller, Knipple, White, and depth (plus more flexibility).
  • “I think [the Hornets] are going to suffer a little bit more offensively than they think they are.” — Zach Lowe [25:43]

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6. Roster Fits, Defensive Questions, and Remaining Holes

[30:20–31:55]

• With Minnesota now thin at big, starts figuring out potential lineups (e.g. McDaniels at PF, small-ball looks).
• New offensive style is “fast, unique, and interesting,” an intentional contrast to core Western rivals like the Spurs and Thunder.
• “Let’s just put McDaniels at the four, start all the guards together and Gobert at the five...I think this is going to work in terms of giving the Wolves a different look, a more interesting diverse look on offense.” — Zach Lowe [15:05, 31:06]

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7. Charlotte’s New-Look Roster and Future Risks

[33:44–39:43]

• Ruthlessness of the move emphasized: “This is as cold-hearted as it gets. I mean, LaMelo ... liked being in Charlotte. He wanted to be in Charlotte.” — Zach Lowe [34:04]
• Hornets’ depth and versatility lauded (Reed, Miller, Knipple, White, Williams, rookies), but clear questions about who is the true playmaker and shot creator.
• “Where is the play creation going to come from on a consistent and regular basis?” — Mo D’Kiel [38:16]
• Bet on Miller and Knipple both becoming All-Stars; increased trade flexibility gives future options.

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8. Around the NBA: Quick Hits

[49:15–60:53]

• Warriors re-sign Al Horford, bringing payroll to $190M; Porzingis, Draymond Green, and LeBron James futures up in the air.
• “It almost feels a little bit like they're in the ... one last job, and let's get the ... you know, let's get this guy. It's the Ocean's Elevens.” — Mo D’Kiel [53:08]
• LeBron’s next step uncertain—financial, fit, and legacy complications with all suitors.
• Pistons clear Isaiah Stewart’s salary, pointing toward big moves, possibly Norman Powell or bigger fish; Kawhi-to-Detroit rumors not likely but club is poised to be aggressive.

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9. Mets Corner: Pain, Embarrassment, and the Anatomy of Collapse

[68:28–102:32] (W/ Sean Fennessey)

• Extended, cathartic segment on the failing fortunes of the 2026 Mets, who are “a very bad team” [72:56], suffering both pain and embarrassment. Zach recounts the June 24th disaster: six infield errors, a bunt line drive turned double, and trade of David Peterson—an “all-time low point” for Mets fans.
  • “This team is bad, it’s embarrassing. ... The Mets are now 72 and 101 in their last 173 baseball games. I don’t sense the appropriate amount of embarrassment from the powers that be.” — Zach Lowe [71:30]
• Fennessey: Club is directionless—simultaneously tried building around stars (Soto, Lindor), youth (Benj, Ewing), and “hidden gems,” but all tracks have failed except for Soto.
  • “It seems like the least valuable that the team has been to the fan base. We don't, we really don't like this. We're really mad, and I think our anger is justified.” — Sean Fennessey [77:11]
• Injuries (Clay Holmes, Lindor, Robert, Polanco) exposed lack of depth, and management (David Stearns) faces fan ire for lack of accountability:
  • “Can you just own some embarrassment and anger? ... This is the second highest payroll in baseball. And you are 34 and 46 with a run differential that finally screams like, oh no, there is no hope.” — Zach Lowe [78:02]
• Future bleak: Thin and unreliable starting pitching, failed prospects, and little hope in the pipeline.
• Silver lining: Youth movement (Benj, Ewing), bullpen bright spots, and the undying hope of fandom (“I still feel the hope in the fandom. So it’s still a lot of fun and you gotta get through some lumps...”) – Zach Lowe [99:41]
• Baseball as family tradition: Zach’s daughter’s Mets fandom remains despite team’s futility.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Wolves’ Risk Appetite:
  • “Tim Connolly has now traded for literally two of like the five most polarizing players in the NBA… never shy about making polarizing big deals in trying to go for it.” – Zach Lowe [04:44]
• On Missing Nas Reid:
  • “He was as popular as Anthony Edwards was here locally. ... His rise signified the rise of this organization and sort of the blossoming of basketball in Minnesota again after a very long, cold winter.” – John Krasinski [29:11]
• On Charlotte’s Ruthlessness:
  • “This is as cold-hearted as it gets. … They are coming off the first season of relevancy in what feels like ages and they pull the rug out like this.” – Zach Lowe [34:04]
• On Watching the Mets:
  • “There’s a difference between pain and embarrassment. ... The only thing I want is to not be embarrassed living amongst Yankee fans.” – Zach Lowe [69:34]
  • “It seems like the least valuable that the team has been to the fan base. ... We're really mad and I think our anger is justified.” – Sean Fennessey [77:11]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |------------|----------------------------------------------| | 00:39–05:29 | Blockbuster trade breakdown: LaMelo to Wolves, assets involved, big-picture questions | | 06:47–08:20 | Timberwolves’ internal reaction/future hopes | | 08:34–10:50 | Mo D’Kiel’s “C+” grade and defensive worries | | 14:01–16:00 | Zach’s “top 10% LaMelo fan” defense; fit with Ant and team culture | | 16:00–18:54 | Why Charlotte moved on: doubts about LaMelo as playoff leader | | 21:45–24:44 | Charlotte’s “sell high” moment, future roster construction| | 28:49–30:20 | “There are thousands … with Nas Reid tattoos” — Nas as symbol| | 34:04 | “This is as cold-hearted as it gets…”—Charlotte’s ruthlessness | | 38:16–39:43 | Mo D’Kiel: Hornets’ playmaking/future questions | | 49:15–54:08 | Warriors move, LeBron’s future, “Ocean’s Eleven” joke| | 59:43–60:53 | Pistons clearing cap, “They have to make a run at somebody”| | 68:28–78:02 | Mets Corner: recent calamities, “no embarrassment” from execs| | 86:24–88:10 | Benj/Ewing hope, Senga “Ben Simmons comp”| | 99:41 | “I still feel the hope in the fandom…”—Zach’s silver lining|

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Final Thoughts

Basketball Takeaways:

• Minnesota is “all in” on a high-upside, high-risk move for LaMelo, changing identity, betting big on synergy with Ant, and on their culture smoothing LaMelo’s edges.
• Charlotte is executing a cold, asset-maximizing reset, betting on youth development and the flexibility to pivot for stars in coming years—at the cost of trading away their most electrifying player.
• This may be a win for both sides, but carries disaster potential: “The most likely scenario ... is it goes pretty well for both teams... I get the risk.” — Zach Lowe [13:05]

Mets Corner:

• A tale of two franchises: As the Wolves take a bold swing, the Mets’ lack of direction and ownership of failure draws a cry for accountability.
• “They got to make a run at somebody ... can't just be a one-year wonder.” — Mo D’Kiel [62:51], applicable to both sports in different ways.

Listen for...

• Honest, sometimes hilarious, sometimes melancholic sports talk with real emotional stakes and a finger on the pulse of fan sentiment—both in basketball and baseball.

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End of Episode Summary

Transcript

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this episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome?

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Or finally break down that long article

[Zach Lowe]

you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses Setup required. Compatibility and availability various 18 foreign. Up on the Zach Lowe show we're back. We're already back after analyzing a whole big pile of NBA news just yesterday. Here we are again. Lamello Ball traded from Charlotte to Minnesota along with Josh Green for Nas Reed and a whole bunch of draft assets going back to the Charlotte Hornets. Minnesota uses the last bullets in its NBA trade chamber for Lamelo Ball to pair him with Anthony Edwards after losing Julius Randle and now Nasrid, two of their three core big men. A complete sea change of identity. A gamble on one of the most polarizing players in the NBA. Is it a smart gamble? Is it a dumb gamble? What are the Wolves doing? Does this give them any kind of shot to compete in the Western Conference? Is it the wrong player to go all in on? We talk all about that with John Krasinski, Amode d' Kiel and then we also discussed the Charlotte end. Wow, what an astonishing response to the most exciting Hornets season in a long, long time. Talk about ruthlessly taking the long view. Was this a little too ruthless or what? What is Charlotte up to in getting off a Lamelo ball? Is it just health related? Is there something more? We talk about that and then Mo sticks around to talk about warriors, future LeBron, future pistons, sniffing around some interesting stuff. Everything that's going on in the NBA. And then it's time. It's been a while. We're back on Mets corner and it's not going great. Sean Fennes this year. That's coming up. Welcome to the Zach Lowe Show. I told you we'd be back in if there were news. And boom, there is news that is both surprising and not that surprising. The Minnesota Timberwolves have acquired LaMelo Ball every 10 and under his Favorite player and top jersey seller from the Charlotte Hornets. The feel good story of the second half. A legitimate semi dominant second half of the season. And out goes their offensive engine on the pair with Anthony Edwards in his draft class back in the day in Minnesota. In exchange, Timberwolves fan favorite Nas Reed, whose very name is just code for being a fan, for being awesome. People just say the name Nas Reed as they walk around Minneapolis and an unprotected 2033 first rounder, three first round pick swaps in 2028, 2029, 2030 and three second round picks. Josh Green also goes to Minnesota, which is not a trivial bit of salary, a blockbuster and just a fascinating deal. A fascinating vote of no confidence by the Hornets in LaMelo Ball after his healthiest season in a long time after their most successful season in ages. A season that ended for the third time in LaMelo Ball's career in a play in blowout, which I think is not irrelevant here. And then on the flip side, a fascinating bet by the Minnesota Timberwolves who salary dumped Julius Randle in order to do something like this. I think they have another move coming in free agency likely to address the void at power forward. A complete sea change for the Timberwolves. Two of their three main rotation big men, Randall and Reed are gone. And in their place is a guard, heavy, faster, smaller, more dynamic, potentially offensive team with Gobert still on the back line. John Krasinski from the Athletic is here. Mo De Kill from everywhere is here. Guys, this is a fun one. How's everybody doing?

[John Krasinski]

Doing great, Zach. Super fun. Yeah, it's like I went to bed last night thinking it could happen. Woke up this morning and it did happen. And credit the Wolves, man, they are never shy about making polarizing big deals in trying to go for it. And here they go again.

[Zach Lowe]

You ain't kidding, John. They have now. Tim Connolly is now traded for literally two of like the five most polarizing players in the NBA. The Rudy Gobert and now LaMelo Ball. Obviously the price for Lamelo lower than what they paid for Rudy Gobert. But I want to start first of all. Mo, how are you? I'm doing well.

[Mo De Kille]

And they kind of echo John sentiments. I woke up this morning, you know, started doing my routine, making the coffee for my wife, all that stuff. And then, you know, it's like, oh, wait a minute, I should check and make sure nothing's happened lately since I woke up. And I'm on the west coast, so it's a little bit, you know, later than everybody else. And I'm like, oh, the trade did go through and then that kind of started. I was like, just turn to my wife going like, I probably will be on the microphone a lot today.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah. LaMelo three years at about 43 million a pop left on his contract. Nazri's had three, three plus one at about 23, 24 a pop. And in addition to this, I should mention right away the Hornets resigned Kobe White or agreed to terms with Kobe White. Three years, $74 million. He will likely replace Lomella Ball is the starting point guard of the Hornets, although he is not really a point guard. Super interesting. I'll get to the Charlotte end of it in a bit. John, is this going to work in Minnesota? Because the Bullets are out of the chamber. The only Bullets left in, in the seven years where teams can trade picks and swaps and all of that are now trading out of your asset class of very good players. That's the only way you can sort of flip the table and recoup draft. This is a hey, if Anthony Edwards is even wondering a little bit about this new ownership regime, about whether there's going to be some penny pinching about, wait, we just traded Julius Randle who flamed out in the playoffs again. How are we going to compete? What's happening right now? This is the answer to that question. I've heard Lamelo is very excited about this despite some shell shock that Charlotte dumped him after what a wonderful feel good story. And he and Ant have known each other for a long time. What's your initial take on this?

[John Krasinski]

Yeah, I think that I will say I've talked to so many people within the organization today about how this came about and what they thought and I put it out on social media but the overwhelming reaction has been elation. And when you think about all of the questions that are around Lamelo's game, around maybe his maturity and all of those things, you, you would think there would be a little bit more kind of. Yeah, well, we'll see. But they have been trying to get LaMelo Ball for a couple of years now. They've checked in several times with the Charlotte Hornets to see if he if they would be willing to part with him because they think that his passing, his playmaking, his shot creation, his handling is exactly what they need next to Anthony Edwards. And they believe, Zach, that bringing LaMelo Ball into an organization that has been in the second round three straight years, that has won at a pretty high level, that has veteran guys who know what it takes to be competitive in this league, they think that will be good for Lamelo Ball, that he will get into this culture and they will help cover up whatever weaknesses he has. But they needed a point guard to take some of the pressure off of Anthony Edwards. They needed someone so that the spurs and Thunder could not just mercilessly double ant as soon as he walked across half court. And they see Lamelo Ball as that type of a player. And I mean, people are just doing backflips over there right now about being able to get him.

[Zach Lowe]

Mo, I'm going to put you on the spot. Give, give the Minnesota Timberwolves a letter grade for this trade and I'm only doing this to set something up, but I just give me your just quick letter grade. Minnesota Timberwolves acquire Lamelo Ball for Nas Reed and all these draft assets and they get Josh Green too.

[Mo De Kille]

Yeah, I'm probably going to go with a C plus and I think part of it is the price they paid. I'm not as worried as everybody else about pick swaps, but I still think it's a high price in terms of the 20, 33 unprotected future, 28 to 30 pick swaps and things like that. And that might not matter at all,

[Zach Lowe]

but I think, I think two of those pick swaps, 29 and 30. Jon, you've probably read the 17 paragraphs on Real GM more closely than I have today, have already been previously swapped. So this is now swaps of swaps. And I gotta tell you, there comes a point where even I am like, just fucking wake me up when these swaps convey. But in this new lottery regime, if it, if it persists into these years, those swaps could be valuable. But continue, Mo, you are giving them 78% C plus. Do better. See me after class.

[Mo De Kille]

Well, it's more the cost of. What I worry about is what could you have done down the road better in the future?

[Zach Lowe]

You know, what, what are you. You get what.

[Mo De Kille]

What guy is going to come up available and we're going to be like, damn, wish we waited and made and we could have made this offer and beat that. You know, I think the challenge also for me, where I'm really most concerned for the Wolves is the defensive end. Like Lamelo has never really showed that much interest into it.

[Zach Lowe]

It comes and goes.

[Mo De Kille]

He has the sides where you think he should be at least a average defender, but a lot of times it seems like he's uninterested in that regard. So I worry in that area. And then they're incredibly thin like you Said Zach, they got to look and we think another move is going to come at some point with a power forward, you know, but it's. It's now Rudy Gobert. It's Barringer coming into the second year where it's not like he played a ton of minutes last year where we could feel confident. And I think he's going to be good, but I still think he's raw and needs a lot of work. I'm just kind of worried of, you know, if this was your last bullet, did you really have to fire it right now at this moment and was this the right guy to target? So that's kind of where I'm concerned offensively. Everything works for me a little. And off the ball, Lamello working, you know, all that stuff. I do worry a little bit about still shot selection stuff. Hopefully they can. Finch can beat that out of him a little bit. But we'll see what happens. So.

[Zach Lowe]

So to be clear, the Wolves, I think John are right at the first apron. As of. As of now, they're not capped at the first apron. They haven't done anything to prohibit themselves from going over. I expect that they will go over the first apron to address this hole at power forward. And like, I don't really even know. I think they have to figure out what their starting lineup is. That one one iteration is LaMelo and McDaniels, power forward X and Gobert. And another is, let's just put McDaniels at the four, start all the guards together and go bear at the five. I think Terence Shannon Jr. Is a critical backup now. Who can play the three and the four for them? And Baron J. Baron J is, you know, they love him and he's going to get a chance to play now. Josh Green could help them. And just the ball IO ant trio. Being able to have at least one and probably two of those guys on the floor at all times sort of mitigates the pain of Mike Conley maybe not being here next year. Bones Highland, we'll see, was a big part of their team. Is he going to be around next year? That's a lot of ball handling to go around. I asked Mo for the letter grade because he gave it a C plus to point out how polarizing this trade is. John, I'm sure you've seen the wolves are getting Ds in a lot of Harper, our guy. I only read a couple because I wanted to get a sense and I think this is a really interesting trade for both teams. I think it could go really badly for either team. I think the most likely scenario in my opinion is it goes pretty well for both teams and I'm including the Wolves in that. I get what Mo is talking about, about the opportunity cost. I talked about it with the Heat and Giannis. When you put your chips in for this particular player, you got no more chips for the next particular player. And I went through the Heat like, okay, who in the next three years, what kind of stars are going to become available that you could have thrown this gigantic trade package in that you threw for Giannis? Well, the Timberwolves already did not have that kind of access to a gigantic trade package. This was about the best they could do. One pick outright and some swaps in a second and a good player. So I don't even think they would have been competitive in that class of players that I talked about with Miami. Donovan, Mitchell, I just made up names like guys in tier one NBA guys, unless they were going to throw in a McDaniels or, or somebody that they did not want to throw in. So I don't think the opportunity cost is, is that that severe? It does lock them in really to this team. Unless they flip one of these main guys and go a different direction. I would give it probably a B, B plus. And I, as many people know, am one of the top 10% LaMelo fans in the national media. I think he's been wildly underrated this entire time. Very carnival esque. Some shot selection issues and late game brain farts that made you wonder like, does this guy like know what the score is and that these NBA games count in the standings and that there's like a prize at the end for the team that wins. But I thought he cleaned up a lot of that last year when he got a real team around him. He started to try more on defense. And I just broadly think that the fit with Ant is going to be really, really good. And the fit with IO and Ant and him together, their ability for Ant to run inverted pick and rolls and hunt small defenders and all that stuff is going to be really good. And to the point about Lamelo's carnival esque elements, his carelessness, his laissez faire, to use a French term, on a team that just loves French players. I think there's, it's going to be very interesting to see Lamelo Ball as the clear cut number two guy on at best on a team after being the number one guy on a bad team for most of his career. I think there's like a material difference between how he will have to play with Anthony Edwards over him in in the org chart and between Ant, who can dial it up on defense when he wants to McDaniels who's an all defensive level player and Gobert who's an all defensive level player who's used to putting out fires all around him. Lamelo is at least big and I think they have the ability to kind of protect him a little bit more on defense than they're being given credit for. I think this is going to work in terms of giving the Wolves a different look, a more interesting diverse look on offense. I don't think they're going to win a championship with it, but I also don't think any path is likely to make you championship favorites in a world where the spurs and the Thunder exist. And that's an unfair grading curve. And at the very least they're going to. You can't beat San Antonio and Oklahoma City by trying to play like them. They are now going to go at these teams with a completely different free flowing, fast guard heavy dynamic that is at least going to make them different and tap into a different set of strengths. So I like I get the risk and I'm going to talk about why Charlotte moved on from LaMelo Ball and why he's even available to begin with and all the negatives that come with it. I like this as a as I like this as a gamble for Minnesota. I would. I think the Ds and stuff are just wildly too low on Lamelo and I think this will work to a reasonable degree. Do you agree John or am I crazy?

[John Krasinski]

Yeah, no, I mean I definitely see the optimism in it. My, I would say like my only reservation and I'm interested to hear both of you talk about this is why another organization gives up on an ultra popular player when he's 24 years old.

[Zach Lowe]

I'm gonna have to go to pick up my daughter at swim practice and there's gonna be crying 11 year old boys. I've spent the last month answering their questions about the Knicks, which is fun. And now they're gonna be like what do I do with this jersey that I have? I don't know what they're gonna be inconsolable.

[John Krasinski]

Exactly. They. I mean he's ultra popular. He had a very, very good season last year. I mean the all NBA votes.

[Zach Lowe]

He got all NBA votes deservedly.

[John Krasinski]

The advanced metrics are off the charts. Plus 11 when he's on the floor offensively. Plus 9 plus 10 when from a net rating. Like he really did have A great, great season. And so then you just like why are, why are the Hornets windy? What's going on in Charlotte? Like why are they. Why are they doing this? And so that's my one reservation. But I will say this. In watching this Timberwolves team when they got dismissed by the spurs in the second round, something needed to change in a material way if they were going to continue to show Anthony Edwards that they are committed to winning. That they are trying to make up ground on the spurs and the Thunder. And the thing that stuck in Anthony Edwards crawl the most coming out of that series was these guys. And he didn't use guys used much more derogatory terms were doubling me immediately. What am I supposed to do against that? And the spurs did not have to worry about Julius Randle hurting them from three did not have to worry about kind of many of the things offense Rudy Gobert at all.

[Zach Lowe]

Well DiVincenzo's injury was a big part of that.

[John Krasinski]

Like huge, huge part. But like and then guess what? The Ant sees Cat win a championship. Like those are like important things in the in building to get to why the Wolves did this. And so if you're looking for ways to lighten Anthony Edwards load the most Lamelo ball is right at the top of the list. The guys who can do that in terms of getting Ant off the ball more and is one of the best catch and shoot shooters in the league. And he didn't get enough of those opportunities last year. Lamelo is going to get those to him all of the time. And so and there's just going to be with Omelo, there's going to be an electricity here, man. Like, you know we talked a lot about this team being kind of moody, a little downtrodden and sullen a lot last year. Lamelo is going to come in and going to be throwing the ball all over the place. It might go into the third row, who knows. But he's going to bring some juice and and I do think that that is going to be welcomed on this team.

[Zach Lowe]

Look, he's going to take some crazy shots. The one legged threes that drive everyone bananas. That went in more than I think people want to give him credit for because when they miss particularly early in the shot clock, it just looks like like, like heresy basically. Like basketball heresy. And I get it. I've always said you can't find the size, the passing and the shooting in one package very often. And it's why I was always going to bet on Lamelo. I was always going to Stick with him as an NBA prospect and an all star level player. And I thought last year he really did make real efforts to A try to wriggle his way into the paint more and get to the line more. Sometimes successfully, sometimes not. B modulate his late game decision making a little bit. Remember this is a guy who James Abrego would bench in clutch time a lot because of just how unreliable his like time score awareness was. And defensively he's always been a gambler. That's never going to change. I thought he just sort of played with a little more alertness and physicality getting around screens and stuff last season than he ever did before and I think this is going to work offensively. Pace, space, matchup, versatility, all that stuff. Obviously they've got some holes to fill out and to your question, the why. Why would Charlotte do this? I think there's a couple of. I think there's, there's some. There's a lot of reasons and really one reason, the lot of reasons are his health issues in the past and selling high after his first healthy season in a long time. All the decision making stuff and defensive limitations that I just talked about and what that means for if he's the best or co best player on your team. How far are you really getting? I think they've now insulated themselves looking forward from if you just project optimistically max for Brandon Miller, max for con caniple 3 maxes or 3 max level contracts. It's just really hard to then build a team around that. And they've given themselves more optionality obviously more draft as this team has a ton of valuable draft picks starting with Dallas's top two protected pick next year. All of that is well and good if you ask me. Why did they do this? I think it really comes down to a physical toughness question that they have about lamelo ball that you watch these playoff series, Oklahoma City, San Antonio, San Antonio, New York and you just envision like this is a dude front runner is too strong of a term, fast and loose. Like when the game's fun, that's when he's at his best. What are you going to do in Game 5 of a playoff series when Steph Castle has been in your jersey for five straight games, when you're switching between Jalen Williams and Casen Wallace and Alex Caruso bumping you physically just manhandling you up and down the court, Are you actually game for that? Because if you're going to be a serious team, that's what you got to be game for. And I think this trade says yes. There's these ancillary salary pick benefits and faith in Brandon Miller and Concan Nipple and all that. The Hornets know the numbers. They know their offense wasn't good when Lamelo was on the bench. They know all of that stuff. And they decided, they decided anyway that we just don't think we can win the biggest games with this guy on our team. I think that's really what it boils down to. And just to wrap a bow on that before I shoot it to mount. I think these play in disasters are have factored into it now. There was like a four year gap between the last play in disaster and the current one. But if you look at Lamelo's and The Hornets numbers 20, 21, 20, 22, 20, 26, I mean they just got railroaded every time they were in the play in some of that was his fault, some of it was not. He did have 30 in the first play in game that thriller over Miami this year that they won. And I don't think he was really the problem. When they lost by a million points to Orlando. He had 23 points in that game. They were only minus nine when he was on the floor. Kind of knipple crapped the bed in all those games too. But I think in totality they were just like we haven't really seen this guy in a serious NBA game and we can't picture him in those serious NBA games where it's just so physical. Like the rest in the playoffs have let these teams be so physical. Is he going to be able to withstand that? Mo, what do you think of all that?

[Mo De Kille]

Yeah, I mean I think that's a big reason for it. When they kind of looked at it, you touched on it. When this is what everybody's doing right after the finals, after the playoffs, we're all looking at going like well, what did we learn? You know, Bill does it a lot when he looks at the draft when he was talking about it, right? Like can I see these guys playing in playoff games? Can I see can they hold up? And I think, you know, Charlotte just kind of said, they've just sort of said we don't think he could do it. We don't think he could hold up in the playoffs. That's why they're so willing to get off him. And then obviously all the other details, contracts and all that stuff to come and how it kind of changes the team. They found the right opportunity to sort of jump ahead. This is a sell high moment for Them, right. They finally get a season where he's healthy almost the entire way. I think he played 72 games through the course of the season. It's their opportunity right there. They can't go into next season and hope it, you know, for them, hope it works out again because if he gets hurt or whatnot and he's out for a long time, the team's going to tank and then on top of that, his value is going to tank. So for them, it was a sell high opportunity to kind of answer the question, John, as to why they would, why a team would give up so on their guys so quickly after the year that they had. And I think, you know, for me it's really important to see for Minnesota how, and Zach, you touched on it, how he handles being the number two guy. Because this is a new scenario for him now for the most part, especially after the last few years when Charlotte's been really bad, he's been able to just kind of do whatever he wants. Now will he be a little bit more disciplined? Can he come in and be a little bit more straight lined into these things like, you know, can he do even a little bit more defensively than what he should?

[Zach Lowe]

Yes, he should be able to. I mean he's already an elite defensive rebounder and so he has decides to do that. Before I go back to Minnesota, I will say the other thing is they sold high. The Hornets did. They better be competitive next year because if they take a huge step back and the fanduel odds, our producer, Mike Semi, the fanduel odds, they did not take a big step back in FanDuel in terms of their conference finals odds and all that. And I think that's appropriate. Like I think they should be decent again next year. Khan gets better, Miller gets better and healthier. Colby White, who I think that three year, $74 million deal is fine. Nas Reid we haven't talked about yet is a huge addition who can, I think walks in as their starting power forward after having the starting power forward job in Minnesota for like 24 hours after the Julius Randle trade. I don't know what that means for Miles Bridges. It could be a bench roll. It could be a trade. I think Nas Reed will play some backup. 5. Their depth is still really solid. The Hornets have a lot of decent players coming off the bench, including the two guys that they just drafted. So I think they should, should be solid. But if they're not, this is going to be a tough pill for the fans to swallow. And look, I'm just saying. I'm just going to point this out. Lamelo on the floor plus nine per 100 possessions. Lamelo off the floor plus one and a half per 100 possessions. And that doesn't change much if you isolate from January on in 350ish minutes with Kahn and Miller on the floor and Lamelo off the floor minus 11 and a half per 100 possessions and look like Kobe White and Miller and kinniple only played 45 minutes together the whole season. So we have not seen a lot of all those guys together. And I think the Hornets are right to have faith that Kobe White can be a bit of a stabilizer and that all that, you know, everything will lift up to a decent level. But it's there is risk in just that sense of are they underestimating Lamelo's impact on their offense? I personally think that they are, but that they can survive it and at least hover around where they were last year. But I don't know that they're going to be. You know, I thought they could have won 50 something games next year. I don't see that now and I don't see that kind of upside now. And that's okay given the long term stuff that they've probably opened up. And if they're right about Lamelo, it's, it's very okay. I think they're going to suffer a little bit more offensively than they think they are. And John, I wanted to ask you, I said we haven't talked about Nas Reed. Just what does this mean to Minnesota for this guy to be off the team? Has anyone talked to him? His agents? I mean he is. I remember having Ryan Saunders on my podcast from Las Vegas just after he. Was he a second round pick or a two way. He was a two way, undrafted two way guy. And he said to me before we started recording, just keep an eye on this guy, Nas Reed. We just got I really like this guy. And then you just see the towels that just say not I have one. It just says Nas Reid. That's all it is. It's like an inside joke among NBA diehards. What is what is going to be missed both on the court and just culturally with him out of Minnesota?

[John Krasinski]

Yeah, I mean briefly on the court and it's not to diminish it, but like he is incredibly versatile. He has improved his game from the time he came in to where he is now. Greater than any player that I've seen in the Timberwolves uniform. I mean he has turned himself into a really good three point shooter, guy who can handle it in the open floor. Really tricky around the basket. He is a handful for anyone to deal with offensively and defensively. He puts in good effort and with the right matchups he can be really good. So they are going to miss him with that. He was a sneaky Big reason they dominated the Nuggets so much is because they didn't have anybody for Nasrid and and so he was a big help in that rivalry. But I just want to focus more on Nas the person and Nas the cultural icon. And I am not hyperbole here, Zach, like, he was an absolute hero here and I think he was a symbol for what Timberwolves fans always wanted and never had before, which was like for years and years and years when the Timberwolves really struggled, they always saw other teams find diamonds in the rough and develop them and turn them into something. And like the Wolves just never, ever did that. And then here was this guy who came into Minnesota, who stayed in Minnesota every summer, worked on his game, turned into a really, really good player and devoted himself to it. Took a backseat to Cat and to Julius Randle was coming off the bench selfless and you know, you have the Nasrid beach towels. But during their 2024 run to the Western Conference finals, a local tattooist gave Nasrid tattoos to people for like 25 bucks as a promotion. I am not joking. There are thousands of people in Minnesota with Nasrid tattoos on them. That's just what he means to them. He kind of. His rise signified the rise of this organization and sort of the blossoming of basketball in Minnesota again after a very long, cold winter. And so there's broken hearts all over the market right now because they had to give up Nas Reed for Lamelo. He was as popular as Anthony Edwards was here locally. That's just. He just what he meant to this fan base and what he symbolizes kind of for. For everything basketball related in Minnesota.

[Zach Lowe]

And I think again, he leaves a void behind at the position that I think they will try to fill if they start that small lineup I mentioned earlier, Lamelo IO and Jaden Gobert. You know, I think you'll see ant guard, power forwards some.

[Mo De Kille]

Yes. In.

[Zach Lowe]

In that alignment because Jaden is so good on the ball. Defending guards, you know, I also think not. So Naz Reed walks into a starting spot. I think he can play with Kalkbrenner. When Kalkbrenner's at the 5. I think he'll play the 5 with Miles Bridges and Grant Williams who's ever if Miles Bridges even still around, I think he's going to be a super important part of a pretty deep Hornets team. Another thing on Lamelo, he's never played with a lob threat like Gobert for extended minutes. I think that's going to help him as a driver and dish guy too.

[John Krasinski]

Go there hasn't had a lob guy to throw him a ball like that in Minnesota in four years.

[Zach Lowe]

You never knew where an Ant or Randall mob for Gobert was going to end up. Let's take a quick break and so basically I like I think again these are There is no perfect move available when you have already traded as much as Minnesota has traded. There's no oh yeah, this puts them right there with San Antonio and Oklahoma City. I like this as a bet if you're if your benchmark is championship, all your bets are probably going to fail and this one probably will too. But I think it's an interesting upside bet that changes their style of play, makes them unique and fast and interesting and gives them something some hope for sustainability. On off I would give it a BB plus I think the D's are underestimating it. Let's take a quick break and I want to hit MO on the Hornets

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[Zach Lowe]

I'm not giving up. I am selling the building.

[Sean Fennesee]

Only love the final season of FX is the Bear.

[Zach Lowe]

The restaurant is flooded.

[Mo De Kille]

Everything's either going to be okay.

[Zach Lowe]

No stop. Or not.

[John Krasinski]

We are outgunned and we are outmanned,

[Zach Lowe]

but we have each other. FX's the Bear the final season all episodes now streaming on Disney+ okay the Hornets, last year's Cinderella story. They trade their offensive engine and homegrown rookie of the year. All that starting lineup Kobe White, Brandon Miller, Con Knippel, Nas Reed, Moussa Antlers Diabate off the bench. They got like a lot of guys. We'll see if again, we'll see if Miles Bridges is still here, but he and Grant Williams at the 4th Brenner is a solid 2nd year guy now a backup 5 NAS. Reed will help in that regard as well. Ceon James McNeely the two rookies they drafted, Steinbach and Anderson, I think we'll walk right in. They just have like a decent amount. Like Trey Mann I didn't even mention because he didn't play much last year. I'm probably even forgetting. Let me bring up their death chart to make sure. No, that's pretty much everybody. Josh Green is now in Minnesota. He played a little bit for them. I think their depth is pretty good. I'm just interested to see, I mean where they still have some cap flexibility to spend. You know, mid level. They have a huge trade exception. They could use the full mid level. Just an absolutely ruthless move by the Jeff Peterson. Rick Schnall is the owner. Gay Plotkin. This is a team that was like Mark Williams, like we're trading you once and twice if need be before we have to pay you. And this is as cold hearted as it gets. I mean lamelo legitimately. Not only was he really good last year and got all NBA boats, he liked being in Charlotte. He wanted to be in Charlotte. He spent the off seasons in Charlotte. He was a fan favorite and they are coming off the first season of relevancy in what feels like ages and they pull the rug out like this for all the reasons I said like well what do you think of that Roster that I just read off is it. It feels like taking a step back for the sake of staking taking stupid two steps forward down the line. But how much of a step back do you think it actually is?

[Mo De Kille]

Well, first, has anybody checked on Eric Collins? Like, the fun he had with the play by play at the Lamello ball area? I just need somebody to check on him and make sure he's okay.

[Zach Lowe]

And the Charlotte PD traffic squad just. They can probably distribute some resources.

[Mo De Kille]

Well, I think the Minnesota one better get ready.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't know. Like, look, man, snow and ice is a different kind of wild card. Like, you might want to just get a. Get an expert driver as part of this whole thing. I mean, it's a different ball game.

[Mo De Kille]

If I could derail us for a second being an LA guy living in San Antonio for a little bit. There was a day where James Borrego was the head video guy. He sent me a text message, hey, man, be careful. There's black ice around the practice facility. And I just responded going, like, what time are you picking me up? I've never had to deal with this, like, what time are you picking me up? I'm not. I'm not driving to this. But to back to the roster, though, like, that is a deep squad, right? Like, I think it's going to be really interesting to see like multiple kind of like interchangeable parts. Right? Like, you go from. You can go Nas Reed, you can bring Miles Bridges in, you know, again, assuming Bridges is there. But then it's Grant Williams. You have a different sort of vibe in the. In the front court. You have Musa Diabate, then you have Kalkbrenner coming in. Again, a little bit of a different vibe in terms of the way they play, but you have a lot of different things there. I think a lot of stuff for them is going to depend though, on how is Con Knippel going to handle the second season. And the way it ended those last two games was almost kind of traumatizing for everybody.

[Zach Lowe]

If part of your concern is The Hornets over LaMelo Ball's playoff sustainability is his performance in your highest leverage games, you have to at least acknowledge that Kant Knipple also did not perform very well in your highest leverage games and ended one of them on the bench.

[Mo De Kille]

Yeah, and I think so. That's something that you have to kind of pay attention to. You have to see early on. We got to see sort of like him shake that off and get going and being kind of. Can he do a little bit more with the ball in his hands, off the dribble, off the bounce, you know, and be more just coming off screens and attacking. And then the same thing with Brandon Miller where, like, I loved actually the pairing of the three guards when it was Ball, Miller and Knipple because they all kind of did different things. Ball was the conductor, but, you know, Miller was able to attack and get downhill, coming off screens and curling around. You had Knipple coming off screens for shots, and there's so many different things you can do now. You got to figure out how are we going to get to all of that. And as I like Kobe White, the deal, he's not lamelo in the way that he can create for others. And that's going to be a thing where you have to wonder, that's my biggest question for them is where is the play creation going to come from on a consistent and regular basis? I know you have Kobe White there. You got to hope that the other guys can handle it. But it's not like I'm nervous handing that over to Con Knippel to Brandon Miller. Like, I just haven't seen enough from them being able to do it. Even McNeely, who I liked, you know, but again, not really much of a run. But we're going to have to see how he kind of goes. This was a lot of pressure on your development staff to make sure these guys are ready. Like, that has to be your whole off season. Con, we got to work on you dribbling and making the passes and making and smart player and everything. But can you make the right reads? Can you. How quickly can you process everything with what you're going to see now and how aggressive teams are going to be on you now? It's going to be interesting to see how they kind of play. I like the way they're set up because as you said, they got a lot of depth. I think they're going to still be able to play fast, push the ball up the court, get going, play in transition, fly up and down there. I think they can be even a little bit more aggressive defensively. But I think the question still remains at the end of the day, play creation, where are we getting that? And that's going to be the one thing for me. That's the hole that I need to see kind of get filled before the season begins.

[Zach Lowe]

And they're not stupid. They know that. They know that the risk of this deal is a step back next season after winning 44 games and having like the best net rating in the league after January 1st or whatever it was. For all the reasons that you're saying this is a bet on both Brandon Miller and Connie Nipple becoming All Stars, I think that's a pretty good bet. I don't know that they're going to be like eight time All Stars, but they're going to be All Stars. I think Miller frankly was wildly underrated as the, as one of the, if not the key reason that that run came together. It coincided exactly when he got healthy and was consistently on the court as a two way player. And I think it's a bet that if they do, if there is a star that they think is a better number one guy than LaMelo that becomes available, they now have Dallas's pick, Miami's 27 pick, lottery protected or unprotected in 28 all the pick swaps. We just talked about an unprotected Minnesota pick. I think there's a Kings pick swap in there somewhere. Even like those are pretty valuable that they can get in on that and like we'll, we'll see. Other side thing before I talk Minnesota again, I don't know what the Grizzlies are going to do with John Morant. Like I'm. I'm looking around and like I don't know what the team is for John Morant now that Minnesota and Miami have made these moves for big salary players and lost a lot of their trade. Just, just not that John Morant is going to require a bounty of assets. They might have attach assets to Grizzlies to get off of him. But just like mechanically both of those teams have used a lot of their

[John Krasinski]

bullets and I don't for Jaw, just so you know. Exactly. The Wolves were not coming for him. They considered it a little bit but it was not going to happen.

[Zach Lowe]

And by the way, I think the Raptors were legitimately interested in lamelo ball. I don't think that was a smokescreen. I think there was real substantive discussion. I don't know how far it got but obviously they didn't get him. I'm not sure that they're going to be a. I don't know. I. To. To be sure to clear. I don't know. My assumption is for most teams it's going to be a stay away. So I don't know what this means. I don't really know what this means for him. But John 1 Before we let you go, the one thing I wanted to take your temperature on. You know I mentioned yesterday that when I was at the draft combine in Chicago last month, maybe the Hottest topic just sort of burbling around was, hey, have you heard that Ant is like kind of unhappy in Minnesota and like they just got eliminated and this and that. And I checked in on it and I was told, you can stand down on that. That's not like that real of a thing. But it was going around and then Tim McMahon kind of resurfaced it earlier this week and then this Randall, slash, Reed slash Lamelo stuff happens. What had you heard about all of that and the level of concern internally?

[John Krasinski]

Yeah, I mean, internally. And I talked. I mean, I know people in Ants camp fairly well and I don't think it was ever a real concern for them right now. Yes, Anthony Edwards was disappointed and frustrated with how the season ended, that they took a step back. I mean, he was injured, Dante was injured, Iowa was injured. There was plenty of reasons for it, but it was certainly not anything like, hey, you know, I'm starting to think about my future here. It wasn't that he likes being in Minnesota. He likes being in a place that he can go around and not be swarmed and really bothered. He likes living here. He loves his teammates. He has a great relationship with the coaching staff in front office. So, like, they weren't immediately concerned. But there's certainly a recognition that when you have a star of Anthony Edwards caliber, your organization is always on the clock. There is no taking for granted. There is no waiting. It is. You have to constantly be doing things to build around him so that you give him all of the belief that this, that where he is at can be competitive over the long haul. And Tim Connolly's been super aggressive in doing that. But there was a sense from the entire organization after that spurs series that some things had to change and that they had to get more kind of, I guess, suited or situated for Anthony Edwards than what they were. And, and I think a trade like this acknowledges that is that there's a recognition that we've got to make things easier on Ant. We've got to make bring things that will help unlock even another level for him and show him that we're going to continue winning at a high level like we have and try to do even more. So it was certainly a motivation. Watching Kat win the title was certainly a motivation, but it was not like Ant was holding their feet to the fire.

[Zach Lowe]

And look, that triple big lineup was off and on. Not always, but there were weeks, months where it was just a little unwieldy, where, like, this combination would be a little clunky and this combination would work. And then I had always said on my podcast, I like when they would put Jaden at the four and it was just not a look they could functionally get to when you're paying these three big guys like $100 million combined per year, whatever it is. And I'm excited to see them play like a faster, sleeker, more dynamic style and we'll see what happens. But before we let you go, is there any Minnesota angle that we haven't covered? Is there an offseason and is there like a free agent that from their team that you think is likely unlikely to be back? Is there something we haven't hit that you think we should hit in the new Look Wolves?

[John Krasinski]

Well, just in terms of like the context of this deal and what they gave up, I think that they view that they had to part with Nas Reed, who they love, and a first round unprotected pick in 2033. The swaps. Two of the swaps are pretty protected and so they're not really that concerned about those. But it's all in the context of they were also in on Jaylen Brown. Like they were having real conversations with the Celtics about Jaylen Brown, but it was really made clear to them, understandably so that it was going to take a lot more than this package that they gave up for, for Jalen Brown. It was going to take Rudy Nas, a young player like TSJ or Taron Shannon Jr. Or Joann Behringer and all of the pick stuff that they sent. And that was going to be a lot and maybe a bridge too far for a player that probably doesn't fit quite as well as LaMelo Ball did. And so they, they were beating the bushes for a lot of other options in addition to this LaMelo ball one. But this is the one that they preferred. They will look for a power forward. They will look for more shooting to kind of fill everything out here. So they are not done yet. But yeah, they was. They were heavy in on Jaylen Brown and really having real conversations about that. And until the Lamello thing really became crystal clear that this was going to be able to happen.

[Zach Lowe]

A name we're going to be hearing a lot. Mo, go ahead.

[Mo De Kille]

Just real quick. I do appreciate Minnesota taking a swing and taking the risk and not, you know, like we've seen so many teams over the years kind of stand pat and say, hey, just a couple of things didn't work out. It would have been easy to use the Dante DiVincenzo injury and IO being hurt ant being injured. We were right there against San Antonio. Like, I do appreciate that, like Connolly did take a look and saying this has to change. And I think just being willing to take the cut and that's whatever, wherever you land on the trade risk or this is crazy or whatnot.

[Zach Lowe]

Risk.

[Mo De Kille]

They took a chance and it's just saying because we knew the way they were set up gonna work here. Like, I think we just kind of that understanding. I think willing to take the risk right here is something that I at least appreciate in the sense from Minnesota saying, like, hey, we're gonna take a big swing and let's see if it works.

[John Krasinski]

And on that mode, like they're paying the luxury tax again, it was looking like a possibility. And you were hearing whispers that they were not gonna pay the tax this season. They dumped Julius Randle and it was like, wow, are you really not going to pay the tax when Anthony Edwards is about to enter his prime. Mark Laurie and Alex Rodriguez got on board and just said, yeah, we are going to. We like Lamelo. We think he can be a difference maker. And so we're going to do everything we can financially to make this happen. And that's a big move. That was not a given, I think when this offseason started.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, they're swinging. They're swinging like Tom Brunansky and Ken Herbeck. 1987 on My Freaking. On RBI Baseball, Nintendo regular nint. And yes, they were my team. They just had power up and down. Talking about that's the lineup. I will. Even though the swing stuff is like, I, I do think it's important for Morant and, and also for Lamelo. Like his contract is not a $65 million five year albatross. It's three years. It's not that long. Like this year is a given. He's going to be on the Wolves after that. It's two years. 41, 43, 46. Like 25% of the cap. It's not like a crazy unmovable. I'm in jail now. The next one, if you maxed him out would be. But they're not there yet. Like, I don't think it's that. It's not like crippling like that. John Krasinski. Where else can we find you? At the Athletic. You have the John Krasinski show, which is your podcast, all things Minnesota. What else do you want to promote here?

[John Krasinski]

Yeah, the Athletic. We'll have a big story coming early next week. Keep an eye out for it. Did a little bit of traveling for it and really excited to see it'll be at the Athletic.

[Zach Lowe]

Did you get interviewed by Wachto, Lipton, Rosen and Katz for the Aspiration? Is that why you travel?

[John Krasinski]

I wish that was it. I wish that.

[Mo De Kille]

But he avoided the interview that way. That was how he did. He got out of town when they said they want to interview him.

[John Krasinski]

I did do a big interview that I've been chasing for a long time. So I'm looking forward to that.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, great. That's exciting.

[John Krasinski]

Yeah. The John Krasinski show on Talk North Weekly. We recorded something today and that'll be out later this afternoon as well.

[Sean Fennesee]

All.

[John Krasinski]

All things lamelo Ball as well.

[Zach Lowe]

All right, John Krasinski, thank you, sir. We'll say goodbye to you. And Mo and I are going to continue now with some of the flotsam and jetsam that have gone on around these two big trades. But John, you're the man. We'll see you soon, but thanks, guys. Okay, Mo, let's talk about a couple other transactions that have happened in this, in this last couple of days. Let's start with Golden State. Just for shits and giggles, Al Horford is coming back on a two year, $14 million contract. Al Horford last seen burying the Clippers under a hail of three pointers in the Play in tournament that's not so interesting on its own. What's interesting to me is the warriors now after selecting Yaxel landenberg in the first round of the draft, are up to like about $190 million in payroll with. With Draymond Green's player option is just like a placeholder for his salary. And they have not brought back Gary Payton the second, and more notably Christoph Sporzingis. That figure puts them more or less 19, 20 million dollars underneath the first apron and only like 10 to 12 to 13 under the tax. They're going to go over the tax. The apron is interesting because if you use the full mid level exception, the big one, you cannot go over the first apron. And so you're just getting into a math problem of Porzingis full mid level, Draymond's player option. Is Draymond willing to opt out and take less to facilitate some combination of things? And then, oh yeah, LeBron James is still floating in the ether as an option potentially for the warriors, among other teams. And I think the market for him is pretty wide from what I've heard. I think there were some negotiations before the draft with Porzingis, his people, from what I've heard. Obviously they didn't result in a deal. I just sort of, I Think the warriors are. They're the Warriors. It's Steph Curry. It's always going to be interesting. I just, you know, this season, Jimmy Butler is going to miss a lot of it. Moses Moody is going to miss a lot of it, if not all of it. I do think the Porzingis question is interesting, and if they bring him back, what the cost is and then the Draymond player option thing, maybe they get LeBron. That would be fun. I don't know mechanically how all of these things are going to happen, but it just feels like, you know, the warriors are going to do what we thought they would do, which is just sort of try to make the best of the end of Steph's career and not really be a contender, but maybe be kind of fun. I don't know. Any warriors thoughts?

[Mo De Kille]

Yeah, it's kind of interesting. Like, I thought this would have been the summer to try to maybe get a little bit younger. I mean, obviously the Yaxl helps with them in. In that regard with their draft pick, but I think, you know, look, Porzingis, not them come not being able to come to a deal with Porzingis, I think turning. Not yet. Not yet. But if they don't, that mean. I think just having Horford in the. In the fold at least kind of gives them a little bit of just backup. At least we have that. It is. I mean, as great as Horford was in that Clipper game, it's, you know, he only played, like, what, 35 games this season. Like, it's a. A tough year for him in terms of just staying on the court and, you know, and going into his 20th season, like, it's kind of surprising there, but the committing the next two years financially, I thought was kind of interesting. It's not a big dollar amount or anything, but sort of where they're at. And the fact that they're probably going to go over the apron and have to figure out everything, all of that sort of matters and plays into it and then just sort of adjusting minutes of where you're going to go. And they have so many moving parts, Zach. It's kind of just. I don't really know where they're going to be at yet. Like, I. It's hard to have that opinion for me, where it's like, might be in. On LeBron, might not get LeBron. We don't know the. The Draymond Green situation. It almost feels a little bit like they're in the. We're in the movies, and everybody's kind of Killed the joke. But it's like, one last job, and let's get the. You know, let's. Let's get this guy. It's the ocean, the elevens. And let's grab this guy and that guy and this guy.

[Zach Lowe]

If you were a bank robber, like, a part of a crew, what do you think your job would be like? You could be the heavy. You could be the safe cracker. You could be, like, the explosive guy. You could be the negotiator. You could be the getaway driver. There's probably other roles, like, you know, logistical planning. Like, I memorized the blueprint of the bank. Like, what's your skill set in a bank crew?

[Mo De Kille]

Well, I think the. The. There's an obvious answer out there that I don't want to give out, but I think I would be the getaway driver.

[Zach Lowe]

What do you. What do you do? Obviously, Are you a bank robber?

[Sean Fennesee]

I'd be the.

[Zach Lowe]

I'd be the explosives guy.

[Mo De Kille]

Wow.

[Zach Lowe]

That was. That one right there.

[Advertisement Voice]

That.

[Zach Lowe]

Well, I mean, that was.

[Mo De Kille]

That was sitting there. But I like to think of myself more as a getaway driver.

[Zach Lowe]

I think I'm not a good enough driver to be a getaway driver. I'm a. I'm a very good, like, normal driver. Like, I. I'm like Costanza. Okay? You don't know what's going. You don't even see what's going on here. But, like, as a normal driver, fine. But as a getaway driver, no, I'm

[Mo De Kille]

in L. A. I can be a good getaway driver. I can. I navigate the streets every day.

[Zach Lowe]

You know what I watched on YouTube where I don't even care if it's fucking June. I don't care. I watched for some reason. Oh. Because in Sean Fennesee's new newsletter, projections about movies he mentioned. I'm blanking on his name. The director. I don't know how to pronounce it correctly. Anyway, the director of Drive, among other strange and interesting movies. And I was like, you know what I want to go do? I want to go watch the first 15 minutes of Drive on YouTube because it's, like, one of the best opening scenes of all time. Speaking of LA Getaway Drivers and features Ralph Lawler calling a Clippers game, which is one of the things that makes it. I would be the safe cracker, I think. You know, with people staring at me and a clock ticking, and I've got to get. To get this done before the alarm goes off. I can execute that. I have steady hands. I have calm hands. I'M good with numbers. I'm good. I can memorize things. Like, I think that's my job. But if you choke at that job, I mean, the whole thing falls apart.

[Mo De Kille]

It's over. It's over. It's the most important job. It's over.

[Zach Lowe]

How were we talking about, oh, one last job for the words? Basically what I'm saying is, as of now, if they pay Porzingis what his market is, which is something, then they're not going to have access to the first. The, the big mid level because they'll go over the first apron and you can't do that. And so you just have a math problem. As for LeBron, I legit don't know what's going to happen with LeBron, like legitimately don't know. You have all of the, like, all of the known options are financially interesting or tricky. The warriors we just went through, the Cavs are way over the luxury tax and have tons of offensive creators already and a power forward in Evan Mobley who plays his position to some degree. The Lakers are the Lakers, right? They just signed Austin Reeves to a max deal. I talked about that yesterday. They have to figure out how to use what. I mean, they don't really have cap space if they have LeBron's bird rights. And so how do you do that juggling act?

[Sean Fennesee]

I.

[Zach Lowe]

Someone. I, I don't know. I don't think this has necessarily been decided yet, but the someone who would know told me yesterday the Clippers are telling. Are. Are behaving, I guess, as if they are going to have cap space in the off season. They can't open much. They can open like 20 million, but they have to like cut some options and renounce some guys.

[Mo De Kille]

And I.

[Zach Lowe]

That got me thinking, like LeBron, Clippers. But I still. I've always said I don't think LeBron ever wants to play for the Clippers, even though it's in Los Angeles. I just don't. I still don't see that as an option.

[Mo De Kille]

So I don't.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't know. The simplest answer is he goes back to la. I don't know what that means for their cap space and his bird rights and how the order of events kind of works. But I don't know, man, that I will say they had something with Luca Reeves and LeBron as the third banana. That was a real thing.

[Mo De Kille]

I don't know where he could go and really kind of find that again in that sense. I mean, listen, there's places you can go. They'll automatically be it's LeBron, we're going to say contender and whatnot, but like the situation he had set up in la where him being kind of the third banana when they sort of fell into that and you know, it was kind of perfect for him. Let him rest, you know, work off ball, he can. And then when he needs to turn it up, he can turn it up. And we see, we, we've seen him be able to do it, but he doesn't have to do it all game. He's got Luka and Reeves to do all that and then he can kind of go off of that. You know, I think they run into trouble when he has to be the first or second guy. You know, when they had injuries and things like that, then it becomes a bit challenging because I think he just tires out. And at this point where he's at in his career, I kind of just feel like the best place for him is really la. Obviously they have to figure out the money and how to make everything work in that regards. And the Lakers still have also a lot of things they got to do. They got to add more shooting, they got to find a bona fide rim runner. I know that most likely Ayton's going to pick up his options. Smarts, most likely going to pick up his option. They got to decide on Nick Smith with the team option, what they're going to do. And I think they have to, to figure out where they're at. But I don't feel like there's a place I look at with LeBron going like, oh, he goes to Golden State. I don't feel like they're, it's, it's. They're going to be fun. It's going to be great to watch. It's going to be exciting. We're all going to tune in. I don't feel like they're at the level where I can say, okay, they're going to make a run at a title or anything like that. Like, I just think it's, it's a little bit hard for me to see it. And I just think the Lakers kind of just present the best situation for.

[Zach Lowe]

I think there are other teams outside this, this sort of select group that also would kick the tires or have kicked the tires and there's sign and trade possibilities and all that. We'll see, we'll see. The other, the only other thing of note that we haven't gotten to as of now is I just thought this snuck under the radar that the Pistons salary dumped Isaiah Stewart to Memphis I really like what Memphis is doing in terms of just coward, Edie Cam Boozer. It's a really nice place to start. And then the other guys they drafted and the picks they have, it's a nice starting spot. I love Campuser. I think he's going to be awesome right away. He might be. He'll be the. I think he'll be the best player on their team next year. Even though Zach Eddy was Godzilla for 11 games that he played last year. I just think it's interesting because Detroit, you know, when I went through a couple weeks ago, my just most interesting off season teams and it was teams that weren't involved in Giannis and that for the most part were not in the top five or ten of the draft. Just teams that are interesting in different ways. I had Detroit on my list because. And I just said I think they're just going to do something. I think they got to the playoffs. What they lacked was laid bare for them the fact that the east is gettable for them now that the Knicks obviously torched everybody. But whatever, they've played the Knicks pretty well in the playoffs and the regular season. I just think they're going to be aggressive. That's just a gut. It's. That's just my gut feel. And so they dump this Isaiah Stewart salary and they can now open up a decent amount of cap room depending on what they do with Duncan Robinson's partially guaranteed deal and Paul Reed's partially guaranteed deal and Tobias Harris who they have Bird rights on and so they'd have to renounce him to open up space. They have a lot of optionality now. There's been these Kawhi rumors that they're going to go big game hunting. I heard they at least checked on Kawhi last year, but then I was told that that was maybe not true. So I don't really know how true that was. This is the due diligence you have to do, but obviously he'd be a plug and play fit. He's eligible for an extension. The aspiration thing is happening. I don't even know how movable, portable he is in any possible way. I'm just sitting there. I don't know if It's Michael Porter Jr. I don't know if it's Trey Murphy the third. I don't know if it's Jalen Brown. I doubt that it is financially. I just think they're going to do something and I'm excited to see what it is.

[Mo De Kille]

Yeah, it's interesting. So like when they Made this move with Beef Stew. It was more, okay, we're going to now be in the running to try to go get somebody. I think, you know, they were. Before Reeves agreed to the deal with the Lakers. I think they were the biggest threat to take him away from the Lakers. I think, you know, we're hearing a lot of the. Norm Powell might be.

[Zach Lowe]

Oh, that's a good one. Yeah, that's. I forgot to mention him. He'd be perfect there.

[Mo De Kille]

Yeah, like, that's. That's a guy I think that they're kind of targeting. And, you know, Miami obviously wants to keep him, but I don't think they're going to be able to do it financially.

[Zach Lowe]

That's a double win. If you're the Pistons, you feel a need and you hurt one of your east rivals.

[Mo De Kille]

Yeah, it's. It's kind of perfect. It's. Was reading Jake Fisher and Mark Stein this morning, and they had some stuff on Kawhi, and it sounds like Kawhi was not willing to sign an extension if he gets traded to Detroit. I don't know.

[Zach Lowe]

All of this can change if I'm Detroit, depending on what the price is. I might be cool with that now. If the price is just overwhelming in terms of picks and stuff, then I'm not cool with it.

[Mo De Kille]

But that's right, you know, call the. Call the bluff and see what happens. But I think, you know, there's a level of like they have to make a move. You know, it was. I was a bit frustrated at the trade deadline, looking at the team going, you got to make a big move. And herder being their move wasn't obviously it. And I think we all kind of knew that in the moment. But I think, you know, this can't be a off season. Kind of like the Wolves where I was talking about, they. They took a swing. They have to make a run at somebody. They have. Maybe they not get it, maybe it's the wrong guy, maybe things don't work, but they got to make a run at somebody, and I think they understand that. That's why they made the Beef Stew trade. Right. And now it's figuring out, you know, it's opening up space for them to go after somebody, whether it's Powell, whether it's in. In trade discussions or something. I think that's really what I'm looking for. They are the most. One of the most interesting teams in free agency because we just saw what they did, and they need somebody to pair with Cade Cunningham to go to work here and try to Continue the run that they went on. They can't just be a one year wonder at this point.

[Zach Lowe]

What is Egypt's prognosis in the World cup right now? What's their next game? What do they need to do? How are you feeling about life?

[Mo De Kille]

I'm feeling pretty good. So I'm Libyan. Egypt's the closest country to me.

[Zach Lowe]

I know you're rooting for Egypt.

[Mo De Kille]

I'm dying hard for Egypt, especially Mo Salah obviously being a Mo. So was going, it was going nuts after they, they beat New Zealand and I enjoyed all the videos afterwards. Right now the way it looks is we're, we're going to move on. We're going to play Cape Verde in the, the, the knockout round and if we win in that one and Team usa, which is the way it looks now is going to play Bosnia. It, it we, we could be facing a Egypt, Team USA 1 and that might be a problem for me in terms of torn household and who do I root for and my wife already told me if that's a scenario you have to root for the usa.

[Zach Lowe]

But you know, you know who you might be facing is Bosnia Herzegovina. Don't sleep on those guys.

[Mo De Kille]

No, don't. I won't at all. I saw them the game, the game my wife and I went to was Switzerland, Bosnia. Now Switzerland put it on them but Bosnia had a pretty good showing. But more importantly, I'm impressed with the crowd from Bosnia because they outnumbered everybody in the Swiss, the Swiss crowd, they're going nuts.

[Zach Lowe]

You goes, I, I know I'm married to one. They're everywhere. The, the post war diaspora where, where they have settled, they have settled en masse and they are. Toronto was like Croatia for the game that I went to and they have a great, great time at these games. I had a very good time. I just, I can't take the tension and it's agonizing, it's just agonizing.

[Mo De Kille]

And well, when Egypt went down one nothing to New Zealand, I was like dying.

[Zach Lowe]

I was watching that game and we were all cheering for Egypt because they were so clearly the better team and out playing New Zealand. But yeah, Croatia has a game left against Ghana. That's in two days in Philadelphia. Everything is on the board for them. They could win the group. It's very unlikely. England would have to lose to Panama. I don't see that happening.

[Mo De Kille]

Well, England got given the biggest gift by getting away with a massive penalty like that should have been a penalty. That was insane.

[Zach Lowe]

I didn't see it. That was against Ghana in the tie, the 00 tie. And Croatia could come second. Croatia could come third and move on. Croatia could come third and not move on. The only thing they can't come is fourth. And I just want, just, just. I just want them to move on. They do not have the kind of team that they had in the last two World Cups when they came second and third. That run is not in them. I'm aware of that. Not expecting it. Just get me to the knockout rounds and you just, just get me the penalty kicks in a knockout round game because they've had a preposterous record in penalty in PK games in the last two World Cups. You know, just, Just get lucky. Who knows? I don't expect them to go far, but just. That's all I want. By the way, my pet peeve, talking about England and all the. I, I, this is, this is for all international sports tournaments. I get why they have to do it. I, I'm going to lead with that. I get why it happens. I understand. I hate that the host nations, including the US are given Tier 1 status when they divide these groups. Canada's group is like, put us in that group, we're rolling. Like, how is that a group?

[Mo De Kille]

They were gifted.

[Zach Lowe]

I said it in the Olympics, too. Only 12 countries make the Olympics. In basketball. It's incredibly hard to make. And the host country automatically gets in. I get why, but when freaking London hosted the Olympics, it was like, oh, Great Britain. And like, Serbia is not. Or whatever. It's like, what are we doing? Like, just. It's not fair. And I would be more happy about it if Croatia ended up in Canada's group instead of in England's group. But alas, it is what it is. Host nations. Although it has. I have to say, the Mexico atmosphere has been awesome. When I watch, I wish I was in Mexico for all of this.

[Mo De Kille]

Everything I've seen. I just wish that's where I've had the most fomo. That and watching the celebrations with Egypt when they got their first win in the World Cup.

[Zach Lowe]

All right, Mo Takeil. The second most relevant sports mo. I may be forgetting a mo. There's a few others, I'm sure, this week. Thank you for your time. You can always find him on Twitch on offsides on the Double Dribble podcast with Jared Dubin and Bleacher Report too, sometimes. Right, Mo? Yeah. And here. And here. Mo Takeil. Thank you, sir.

[Mo De Kille]

Thank you for having me.

[John Krasinski]

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[John Krasinski]

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[Mo De Kille]

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[Zach Lowe]

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[Sean Fennesee]

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[Zach Lowe]

All right. It's been a while. The NBA playoffs took precedence. Sean Fantasy's New York Knicks won the 2026 NBA title, which is good for you, Sean, because the New York Mets are not going to win anything this year. And it's time to reconvene for Mets corner. Before I start. How are you? It's been a while. How are you doing?

[Sean Fennesee]

I'm wonderful. I've rarely gotten such amazing feedback than the one I got after appearing on your show after the Knicks one. And I just want to say at the outset of this conversation, the Mets cannot hurt me. There is a force field, an impenetrability protecting me because of this Knicks title. And even. I just spoke to our friend Brian Koppelman yesterday, and we were like, We're 13 days in. I still feel great, like nothing is changing. So that I just need to foreground our conversation with that and say I'm doing very, very well. Now, I am going to make some space for what I think is the appropriate reaction to what is going on here. How are you doing, Zach?

[Zach Lowe]

I'm good. There's a difference between pain and embarrassment. And if you'll recall, the last time we had an angry Mets corner, I said, the only thing I want is to not be embarrassed living amongst Yankee fans, for the most part. And so here's how this week has gone. I was supposed to throw out the first pitch at Citi field on the 22nd, which was Monday. Of course, it got rained out because why would anything work out with the Mets? So we're trying to reschedule And a lot of my friends were going to go, including Yankee fans friends and they were going to buy tickets last minute and one of them had not bought tickets until the day of and he just gently poked me and said, hey, you know, I don't mean to be mean, but it's the Mets. There's going to be good seats available. This is what I'm talking about. I don't need it. I don't need that in my life. And that was three days ago. And last night. Sean, June 24, 2026 is going to be a day that I remember forever and will go down in Mets history as an all time low point. I get done with a big podcast on all the stuff happened in the NBA, have dinner at the house myself for a few nights. You know what? Oh, that's right, they're playing the second game, a doubleheader. Let me flip it on. Oh, they're at 3 1. You know what? I can send some texts about Lamello ball, make some calls. They're winning. Alvi has another home run. You know, look, the season's not going great, but I'll be on in the background and I sit down. Simeon makes an error. Little do I know it will be one of six infield errors the newly revamped run prevention oriented Mets make in a game. The most in a major league game. I think seven years, six we. I can't. And then the exact moment that the season ended. The exact Ralph Wiggum heartbreaking moment that the season ended. Pete Crow Armstrong, former Mets prospect, bunts a line drive single over Bo Bichette charging from third base. Boba Shet leaps with all his might, reaching up in the air like you would normally see somebody do an infielder do on the edge of the outfield grass. Except he's in the middle of the infield grass. Just an absolute comical visual. The ball rolls all the way to the outfield. The Cubs now lead four to three. That was the end of the season. There were four more errors after that. There were Pete Alonzo chants in the crowd after that. And the night ended with the Mets trading last year's all star starting pitcher David Peterson to the Cubs for a prospect because he joins a list of pitchers who have flatlined mainstays. Supposed mainstays. David Peterson gone. Kodai Senga. I would like to just poochie him out of my life, send him back to wherever he's from. Is now in the bullpen Mania 3 and whatever innings last night. Fine. Montes member Frankie Montes. He beat like, and Freddie Peralta just gave up 10 runs the last time we saw him. The Mets are now 72 and 101 in their last 173 baseball games. This team is bad, it's embarrassing. And I don't sense the appropriate amount of embarrassment from the powers that be. And I will now stop talking.

[Sean Fennesee]

Well, you've just done it all the work. I mean, that was it. You just, you, you summed up, I think, all of the appropriate detail and frustration for what's gone on. Let's, like, let's try to put some of our context since we've been doing this together. Um, when things were coming apart last season and the dramatic downfall was happening, I started talking to you about how we know David Stearns wants his own team. He wants a team in his vision. And so in the off season, he deconstructed parts of the team. There was one Mets corner we did where it was a very emotional day when Pete Alonso and Edwin Diaz signed with different ball clubs. And even if you felt like those were the right moves, that was painful as a fan because we had a lot of strong emotional ties to those two players. I could see the case for it from a baseball perspective why it was not appropriate to bring either of those guys back. But I still felt bad about it. I think you felt bad about it too. We love Pete, especially the moves that they made in the off season. I bright sided them. I looked at them and I said, man, if this team stays healthy, this is going to be a really interesting lineup. I did not spend enough time thinking about how the biggest problem that we had in 2025 was the pitching staff. And the only thing that was materially changed about the pitching staff, the starting staff, was we added Freddie Peralta in a move that I liked and like a lot of other moves, the addition of Jorge Polanco, the trade for Luis Robert Jr. The development of Carson Benge, and the insistence that he would be a part of the ball club. All of those choices. The late off season signing, panic, signing seemingly of Boba Shet. After missing out on Kyle Tucker, I found a way to bright side all of those scenarios. I wanted to believe I predicted 92 wins this season on a podcast. That's something that happened. I'm not paid professionally to make these decisions, but the people who are paid professionally to make them did a very, very bad job. A very bad job. And we are now watching the fruits of their labor, which is not only is this a very bad team, as you identified, it's neither a fun team nor likable team. It's a bunch of guys who are either prospects that we have no that we want to have a strong relationship to but have not panned out. Mega stars who came here from other places or guns for hire, most of whom are on the back half of their careers. I don't really like watching the team. I'm still watching. I watched game one yesterday. You watched game two and you texted me after that bun single flew over.

[Zach Lowe]

Bobaji, I texted you, I said, please tell me you saw that. And I wonder what. I didn't elaborate. And I wonder what your brain thought had happened. It couldn't be anything. I don't know what you thought, but

[Sean Fennesee]

if you told me Pete Crow transformed into an eagle and soared over City Field like a majestic creature, I might have believed you. That's how bad things are going.

[Zach Lowe]

And I haven't watched baseball all that much for the last 10 years, as we know. The last two. Yes, that bunt happened. And I'm like, boy, I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like that. But that's just me. And then Ron Darling a minute later said, I don't think I've ever seen that happen before. And I'm like, okay, this is where we are with the Mets. I don't think I've ever seen that happen before. And it's an unfortunate thing happening to us.

[Sean Fennesee]

I turned the game on after you made that note to me. And boy, that was an interesting experience listening to Ron Darling and Gary Cohen talk about the team for the last three innings of that game because that was as direct and negative a communication by a broadcast team about what was happening to a team as I've heard in a long time. They more or less seem to be speaking to David Stearns about the team's decision to retain Carlos Mendoza and the fact that the team is just undisciplined, checked out and bad. And they were frank, man. And you don't hear that from broadcast teams a lot because they broadcast seems to have a lot of interaction with the team and the people who work with the team. And you need to have a little bit of connectivity. But the phrase rock bottom and despair were uttered during the broadcast yesterday. And there've been a lot of bad times in Met's history, right? Worst team money can buy. The early 90s teams were extremely unlikable yesterday or two days ago. I cited to you the 07, 0809 period, the collapse in 07 and then the failure to make the playoffs in 08. And then the misery of 09 and 10, these kind of like forgettable, washed away eras that we thought in 06 were going to be the beginning of something special and really were not. But boy, this just. Even though it's not the worst record that a Mets team has ever had, it seems like the least valuable that the team has been to the fan base. We don't, we really don't like this. We're really mad and I think our anger is justified. And if I did not have the Knicks title, I wonder if I'd be able to not be red faced and shouting at you during this conversation. And yet, like I say, there is a force field around me and I cannot be penetrated.

[Zach Lowe]

I would like to see anger, actually. And it's one of the things that I've found annoying about David Stern's regular homestand media appearances is that he's. Yeah, of course we want to play better. You know, we're trying to play better. I think there's a good team in here that'll recover and make a season out of it. And it's like, dude, can you, can you just own some embarrassment and anger? Because it's, it rings so hollow now. This is, this is not a mid market team with modest expectations. This is the second highest payroll in baseball. And you are 34 and 46 with a run differential that finally screams like, oh no, there is no hope. It's now minus 46. A week ago they were 34 and 41 and like minus 8 and sniffing around the edges of the wild card race. This has put us back into our proper place. And like I said, 72 and 101, 30 games under.500, basically in a little bit more than a season since they had the best record in baseball last year. That's like, you just flat out suck. The team sucks. And I don't want to hear any more platitudes about how we're playing better and like this and run prevention and that. I want actual like anger. And I'm not calling for anyone to be fired or anything like that. I just like, let's be upfront about what has happened here, which is that this is a complete disaster of a team. And the thing that I want to talk about with you is I mentioned all the pitchers that have like, sort of regressed or fallen out. Like, Peralta is a free agent. We don't know what's going to happen with him. They might trade him. Who knows? I mentioned all these other guys, like McClain's been fine, all things considered. Fine. Not great. A little too inconsistent. But like, fine. Like I'm, I'm okay with what McLain has been.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yesterday was disappointing. I think he's still promising. But yesterday was the kind of thing where it actually feels like this is a team that is not well managed because he was put in a position to gak a three nothing lead. But giving up two consecutive three run home runs.

[Zach Lowe]

Fine. He's been just. You could give him like a B minus, C plus if you want. Based on expectations.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah, he's a rookie.

[Zach Lowe]

How is this team cobbling a starting rotation next season? Like, that's the question that I'm now focused on because I mentioned all the veterans who are all trending the wrong way. Slash, not in the starting rotation. Slash, not even on the team anymore. Who are the reinforcements that are coming in? Tong is struggling in aaa, struggling to add another pitch to his repertoire. And then I'm looking down at the, the next group of like the Mets top 20 prospects. Jack Wenninger is, is 24. And I look at his minor league stats. They're like, fine. They're okay. They're not great.

[Sean Fennesee]

He struggled this year. Yeah.

[Zach Lowe]

And then down the line it's like relief pitchers, guys who are 26 years old. Guys like Will Watson. I don't know who Will Watson is, but he has shit stats in double A. Like, so let's just say this season is gone, right? And then there's maybe a labor dispute and whatever. I think the two big questions that we need to figure out is how do you handle a lost season if you're the Mets? Because everyone's like, well, are they going to sell or are they going to buy? The worst thing they could do is buy in a way that tries to save this season for some short term gain. But I don't know how you even sell when you are building around Francisco Lindor and Juan Soto for next season. And if you are building around them for next season, it's like you're starting a pitching staff almost from scratch. Like, they have absolutely no reliable starting pitching and almost nothing coming out of the minors. Like, I don't know what, like what is the best case scenario for next year's team at this point?

[Sean Fennesee]

It's a really good question. I don't have a strong answer for you. I think that they have tried to simultaneously go down all three tracks, which is that they have acquired mega stars and had a $350 million payroll. They have tried to build from within and play young prospects like Carson Benge and now A.J. ewing. And they have also tried to find that middle ground of sort of like your discoveries or your underrated hidden gems approach that David Stearns did fairly well while in Milwaukee. And all three of them have kind of come up snake eyes with the exception of the acquisition of Juan Soto, who is injured right now. But it seems like maybe is not serious and is having a wonderful season. This is his second consecutive season.

[Zach Lowe]

I would love to see Juan Soto and Francisco Lindor play a baseball game together. It's like the only thing that I'm looking forward to now is like, can we have both of them in the lineup?

[Sean Fennesee]

That's the other thing I just want to say is I don't think this team is a 90 win team right now. But if Clay Holmes and Francisco Lindor

[Mo De Kille]

did not get injured.

[Zach Lowe]

I forgot about Clay Holmes.

[Mo De Kille]

I should have mentioned him.

[Zach Lowe]

And that Clay Holmes, great story.

[Sean Fennesee]

A great story. And he was pitching like an ace. He was pitching like a Cy Young contender before he got hurt and he got hurt on a fluky line drive comebacker and broke a bone. And like that shit happens in baseball. And each time an injury happened, when Robert got hurt, when Polanco got hurt, when Lindor got hurt, when Holmes got hurt, all it did was reveal the stunning lack of depth in the construction of the team. Because you're also thinking about other guys who have been injured this year. Remember Mike Tauchman, who is potentially going to be a right fielder with this team and who got injured right before the season started. We're consistently running out Eric Waggeman, Zach Short. We're consistently starting backup catchers because we don't have enough depth in our DH position.

[Zach Lowe]

There's been so much. There's been so much MJ Melendez in my life. MJ Melendez. I can't believe how much of this guy is in my life.

[Sean Fennesee]

I mean, look, Mark Vientos is going to is on track for like 400 at bats. He's not a major league baseball player. He's just not.

[Zach Lowe]

I thought you were going to say he's on track for 400 errors.

[Sean Fennesee]

That as well. I mean, we're having a heartbreaking thing. I loved Brett Brady and I didn't want to give up on Brett Beatty. He's been terrible this year. Terrible, Zach. And so this feeling that we have as fans right now and this leads to what happens in and 28 is like I kind of want them to cut bait with all of the tracks that are not Benj Ewing Soto, Lindor, like I, I kind of don't have any patience for any of those guys. And the starting rotation is this $100 million agglomeration of Manaya, Senga, Montas, Peralta, a bunch of guys who are just not very effective. We've cast off one of them in David Peterson and the fact that we got a top 15 prospect from the clubs is kind of fascinating in that trade. But nevertheless, if you want to bright sided again, you can say, okay, well, we have Nolan McLean, Christian Scott, Christian Scott coming off the injured list. They just called up Zach Thornton. He wasn't great in his first appearance as a major leaguer, but maybe he'll show us something over the next few months. Maybe you say, ah, Jonathan Santucci looks good in Double A. Maybe Jack Weninger turns it around in the second half of the trip of the Triple A season. And then okay, well there's like five guys under the age of 27 who could make up for rotation. And don't forget a lot of money coming off the books in the next two seasons. So if you want to go out and sign Tark Skubal or somebody like that and give him $500 million or $800 million, Steve Cohen is your owner and you could do it. The problem is David stearns is like 1 for 32 in transactions. Like his hit rate has just been terrible and some of it is miscalculation and a misunderstanding of either the market or the fan base or player health or any number of things. Some of it is bad luck, right? Some guys just get injured and it's bad luck. It's bad luck that this is the year that after playing 150 games for 10 straight years, Francisco Lindor gets hurt and misses 30 games in the middle of a downward spiral. But Sterns is in the sights of fans because he's made a lot of bad choices and a lot of the bad choices he made hurt fans feelings. When you didn't bring back Pete Alonso, whose name was being chanted yesterday during the game, people were upset. They were real upset and he was very strident about that. He showed a lack of contrition in those press conferences. You know, whether or not, whether or not it would actually matter if David Stearns got up in front of us all and said, this one's on me. I made a lot of mistakes, but I'm committed to making this team a World Series champion and I'm totally reevaluating how I did my job in the last three years and I'm going to change some things. Like that's what people want to hear. They want to hear I fucked up and I know I hurt. I know, I know I ruined the summer for you guys and here's how I'm going to change and I'm going to fix it. And I promise I'm going to try to get better. He's not going to do that. And even if he did do it, what would it really accomplish? It would give us a mild gratification for five minutes before we started complaining again. So I have some empathy. As far as rebuilding the team. You just got to hope that all of these things that we keep hearing about how he's rebuilding the farm system are real. And what we're seeing from Ewing and Benj, which is good, like they are. That is the bright side so far, for real, this season, they look like major leaguers.

[Zach Lowe]

And defensively, I mean, Soto called them the psychopaths and all that. Just super fun to watch defensively flying around.

[Sean Fennesee]

And so if there's more of that to come, then we can be optimistic. But yeah, man, this is low. This is the depths right now.

[Zach Lowe]

Christian Scott, I'm glad you brought him up. Has been workmanlike and effective and just a stopgap that has been more than a stopgap. The guy I want to shout out is Brazabon. Like, that guy, I, I honestly might just give him MVP of the team. He just comes in and does his job, pitches a ton of innings. He's been super reliable. I love that dude. And I'm, I'm happy to have him.

[Mo De Kille]

But.

[Zach Lowe]

Yeah, I mean, look, I just don't. I, I don't know enough about baseball to know how you just fill out a rotation that's like almost a. A blank slate other than McLean and maybe Holmes next year. Holmes was awesome. You're right about that. How often does it happen that like, like literally a year ago, One year ago, David Peterson was an All Star. That's a thing that happened. He made the All Star team. And Kodai Senga, before Pete Alonso threw a wild ball to first while he was covering, was pitching like an ace, like an actual number 1, number 1B starter.

[Sean Fennesee]

He had a double 15 ERA in the first half of the last year.

[Zach Lowe]

How is this more common than. I just know because I'm an amateur baseball fan, that people go in a year from that to completely unplayable to the point that you just can't be on the team anymore. Like, it just feels like such a stunning drop off from an Actual All Star to. You're going to the Cubs and you're throwing after openers. And Senga, I don't know what his

[Mo De Kille]

role is going to be.

[Zach Lowe]

He's going to the bullpen, and that's going to be it.

[Sean Fennesee]

I don't think he'll start another game for the Mets ever again. He does have a very unusual contract where if he does suffer a dramatic elbow injury, he automatically has a 2028 option that gets picked up for $15 million. So he's on the books for next year.

[Zach Lowe]

Sweet. It's great.

[Sean Fennesee]

That's. That's a tricky situation. The case for both of those guys in what you're. In terms of what you're describing is with Peterson. His underlying peripherals are not as bad as the 6.09 ERA. It doesn't mean he would have been good this year, but it's a little bit of an exaggerated number. Secondarily, he's a ground ball lefty. You know what sucks? The Mets infield defense.

[Zach Lowe]

And it's not good.

[Sean Fennesee]

You know, they've been playing second baseman at a position at third. They've been playing a backup shortstop. They've been playing an aging second baseman at second base who shouldn't be out there every day.

[Zach Lowe]

This is what we talked about in the off season. You talked all about run prevention, and then you built a team where everybody was playing a new position. And by the way, everyone's injury prone. And Polanco and Robert, they might as well. I don't know where they are. They could be in.

[Sean Fennesee]

I don't think you'll ever see Robert again.

[Zach Lowe]

I have no idea where they are.

[Sean Fennesee]

I don't think. I don't think you'll ever see Robert again. Polanco, maybe we'll come back in the second half of the season, but I

[Zach Lowe]

saw a video of him running in the outfit. I'm like, great. Awesome. Like, is he training run? Is he training for the steeplechase? Like, what? Like, why am I seeing video of this?

[Sean Fennesee]

You know? So for Peterson, I feel like in addition to maybe regressing a bit and over, you know, I think he overperformed against his peripherals last year, and now he's underperforming. This happens. There's a lot of variance in baseball when it comes to that sort of thing. With Senga, I think it's perfectly fine to say he's clearly psychologically fragile.

[Zach Lowe]

I'm done. I'm done. I'm out. Ben Simmons, him. Let him go become a professional fisherman or a dart player. Or whatever. Probably can't be a Darth.

[Sean Fennesee]

I think that's an apt comparison. Zach. I think he is kind of Ben Simmons ask in that his skills are extraordinary, but he does not have the mental capacity to push through challenging circumstances. And don't forget, his first season was fucking awesome. He was really, really good. Was that right before you came in or right when you came in? Back to the team. And it's been sad to watch him unravel because I felt like. I almost felt like they were, like, abusing him, letting him go out there and pitch two days ago. Like, he's clearly. He's just not. His head is not on straight, and the team is just desperate for starting pitching, but they're going to just bury him in the bullpen. And I don't think he'll be on the team 12 months from now. But. Yeah, how do you rebuild? I don't know, man. They got to get lucky. They got to hope something. Just want one of those weird baseball things to happen to them in the good way, where a guy who wasn't supposed to be good suddenly becomes good. I remember this happened with Daniel Murphy some years ago.

[Zach Lowe]

Daniel Murphy, he's great on the broadcast, by the way. When they throw him out there as a backup, he's really, really good.

[Sean Fennesee]

But he was never a hotly touted prospect, and he transformed into a vital piece in that 2014 15, 16 team. And so you just got to hope they. They, you know, they. They discover a few of those guys. But this is a low period. This is a really, really low period for the franchise. And it's bizarre that they have a $380 million payroll.

[Zach Lowe]

I always liked Peterson. That one hurt me a little bit yesterday. I liked him for stupid reasons. Like, he was the starter at the game. I went to with my dad and my daughter and my wife last year when I was really starting to get back into, like, I'm going in person. Like, he pitched eight innings that game, like, which seems like a. Like a Tyrannosaurus rex just walked across the stadium. That's how rare it is. And they won 5, 2 over the Dodgers. He struck out Ohtani, like, four times. I should have known that there was some. Maybe some luck going on because I think he induced, like, five double plays in that game.

[Sean Fennesee]

But that was his game. That was. He was. He was. He was. He was that kind of pitcher. Purposefully. He was the longest tenured met, too. He was with the team for a really long time.

[Zach Lowe]

And his Instagram account. This is how stupid I am about baseball. Like his Instagram account, he's always pumping up his own teammates and like congratulating them on stuff. Like, I like this guy, he seems like a sweet guy. And now this is just, I mean there's 80 games left and there's no hope. Like there was hope at 34 and 41 and no one running away with the second and third wildcard spots in the NL. They, the thing that got them to 34 and 41 after the 12 game losing streak was at least they stopped having long losing streaks. They could never put together a long winning streak, but they would go like 2 out of 3, lose 2 out of 3, win 2 out of 3. Just a gradual pick up a game against.500 every 10 days. And you knew if they're actually going to get back into this, they're going to need to win seven out of eight at some point. And they never showed anything like the ability to do that. And then the other shoe dropped, which is, oh, actually you're still bad enough to have a five game losing streak and now it's just over. And I'm excited to rediscover what it feels like to watch a bad, hopeless baseball team for three months and just sort of find things to be like this Alvarez home run streak is fun. You know that I like Alvarez and want him to play more.

[Sean Fennesee]

I do too.

[Zach Lowe]

And I'm happy to report that my daughter is still incredibly into it and doesn't seem to care that they're bad and still really loves them and roots for them and wants to watch them play and that that makes it worthwhile for me.

[Sean Fennesee]

And Lindora is back for her too, so she'll get to enjoy him being back. I think it's going to take him a few weeks to really get on the side of right in terms of how he plays. But the five game losing streak that you pointed out is important. There was a weird hinge in that there where there was a Thursday game where they won. They survived. They hung on 64 against the Phillies heading into what was thought to be a fairly important series in the nl.

[Zach Lowe]

Somebody lined out Schwarber, I think lined out super hard off hard to right field.

[Mo De Kille]

Yeah.

[Sean Fennesee]

And that scared me. Which wasn't really his fault. Right. There had been an error in the inning or something, but he survived the inning. Nevertheless, they win 6 4. They're going into a long weekend. But there's no Friday game. Instead what there is is a Saturday and Sunday national game. Saturday game, I think on Fox, Sunday game on espn. And both of those games were calamitous and the broadcast just went out of their way to just dunk on the Mets and you know, rightfully so. But I've endured 43 years of LOL Mets and it's very painful and it keeps happening in these national scenarios. And those two losses began this streak of games where they gave up 10, they gave up 50 runs in five games. You know, like it was really an awful stretch there and it does feel unrecoverable and it doesn't feel like there's any 2024 magic in this team. And yet I do still. I'm with you. I think I'm going to keep watching because I like watching Soto hit. I'm loving Benjin Ewing. I want Alvi to have a bounce back year and to be a I think he, it would be nice if he was just the permanent fixture at DH that weirdly his value is not as high if he's not catching every day. But he's not an elite defensive catcher but he could be an elite power bat if he just focused on that. So there's stuff to look out for. I want McLean to turn it around and to have a really solid rookie season like I and to your final question about the fire sale. They have to do it and they have a ton of pieces that people are going to want. You might not realize it but the Mets have one of the best bullpens in baseball.

[Zach Lowe]

Their bullpen's been great. Rayleigh Bradsband Williams has been okay, but like the setup guys have been great

[Sean Fennesee]

but Weaver has been unbelievable. Minter has come back healthy and extremely effective. They have a lot of arms that teams are going to want at the trade deadline. The question is, does it make sense to sell all those guys if you are trying to be competitive in 2027, should you sell Luke Weaver who has another year on his deal when he looks like one of the five best relievers in the sport.

[Zach Lowe]

I wouldn't like if unless you're just giving up everything. Unless you're just opening the door to the full on rebuild which involves painful decisions that we don't want to talk about. I need somebody around next year to get some fucking outs.

[Sean Fennesee]

Yeah, I agree with you.

[Zach Lowe]

You know, I have a couple other important takes. The construction hat sucks and the construction vest sucks. I hate it. And it's a stupid home run thing. Last year was much more fun and the OMG sign was obviously way more fun. I don't know what we got to do to get the Mojo back But part of it is we just got. We just got to have a better. A better thing, maybe. You like it? I don't know.

[Sean Fennesee]

What'd you think of the Spidey mask? Did you see the Spidey masks?

[Zach Lowe]

I saw that. I saw that with Alvy the other day. It's fine. Like, it's cool. Just.

[Sean Fennesee]

What about this? I have an idea. Just be good at baseball. Don't worry about what you're putting on when you get back into the dugout after you hit a home run. Did you see that? They lost for the first time this year. For a team with a 4 plus 4 home run differential, the teams prior to yesterday that had a plus four home run differential in a game were 35.

[Zach Lowe]

And, oh, again, again, they. There was a line drive bunt single over the third baseman's head that went in. Actually trickled into the outfield. I would believe anything at this point.

[Sean Fennesee]

It's so, so fucking painful watching Pete Crowe Armstrong. So painful because he is such a dude. He is just a baller. I can't believe we traded him for three months of hobby bias. It's so painful.

[Zach Lowe]

It's not going great. Did I tell you the story about my daughter going to the game with her school?

[Sean Fennesee]

No.

[Zach Lowe]

So her school's chorus sang the national anthem a month and a half ago. I think I may have told the story. I can't remember if I did or not. Apologies to listeners if I did. She's not in the chorus, but the school bought a bunch of cheap seats, and she wanted to go sit with her friends after they sang. And it was horrible weather. I didn't go because the playoffs were going on. It was horrible weather. Windy, cold. And all of her friends were, like, hanging out in whatever lounge they had access to up there. And she was like, I don't understand. I think I want to watch the game from the seats. Like, what? Where are you guys going? And then, then they all wanted to leave in, like, the sixth inning because it's getting late. There's some cranky young children. And she was like, we're not leaving. Game's not over. We're like, we're going to stay for the whole nine innings, right, Mom? Like, my wife was there with her, and finally she relented because everyone was just miserable. And I was like, I don't know

[Mo De Kille]

what I've done, man.

[Zach Lowe]

This seems like. This seems like I've. Maybe this has gone too far. And she sometimes runs into my office, like, when I'm watching games, and she'll Just be like, daddy Soto hit a sac fly. This happened. I'm like, you're so cute and the team is so bad, but I'm just so happy that you're into this.

[Sean Fennesee]

It sounds like you need to introduce her to the New York Knicks. That's what we need.

[Zach Lowe]

You know, she got into it a little bit because my wife got super into it and they would watch the games and I, I don't know if it's because I work in it, but. And she hears about it too much. She doesn't seem to find it as fun a diversion as baseball. She did like Brunson, but everybody likes Brunson. She was like, I like that Brunson. He's. He's tough. Like, yeah, it's fine.

[Sean Fennesee]

He's. But he's the, he's the new fangled Steph where little kids see themselves in him. You know, him being the littlest guy on the court. There's something very powerful about that.

[Zach Lowe]

But at least, at least she's into it. And hopefully we get my first pitch rescheduled so that she can come and we can stand on the field and do all that kind of stuff and we'll go to. We have a couple other games that we're trying to do. This ferry, have you heard about this ferry?

[Sean Fennesee]

No.

[Zach Lowe]

There's a ferry now from Stanford, Connecticut, right to the stadium, basically. But it only runs on select, select games. And it's like, it's like 80 bucks round trip and. But it's like a, you know, it's like a floating bar that gets you to right to Z. I want to try that out. So I'm finding, I'm finding silver linings. But 72 and 101, when I sat down and did the very basic math, I was like, oh, man, that's like.

[Sean Fennesee]

I think it's like a really bad team. I think the last 12 months are the worst team in the sport, record wise. I think they're worse than the Rockies in the last 12 months. The Rockies, who is. That's one of the worst organizations in all of professional sports around the world.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't have anything to add except I'm actually, I'm happy that I'm into it enough that I will still flip these games on, at least for a few innings here, there to stay in touch with the team. I still enjoy it. I still, like, bizarrely, like when they were ahead 3:1 last night, I was like, maybe this will be the game where we start the six game winning streak. You know, naive enough, like I still feel the hope in the fandom. So it's still a lot of fun and you got to get through some lumps. And it's like the baseball gods are like, you sure, you sure you want to come back for this? Here's a bunt line drive squeezed in between six infield errors in one game. And. Yeah, you know what? I'm coming back for more.

[Sean Fennesee]

I have one last question for you. I made a bold proclamation last week in the aftermath of the Knicks win that I now officially believe the jets will win the super bowl before the Mets win the World Series. The jets obviously, are even more tragic in the last 15 years. I know you're not a football expert, but what do you think about that proclamation?

[Zach Lowe]

I don't know anything about football. I just know that the jets are, like, have been a total laughingstock, right? And Aaron Glenn's the coach. And all I heard on sports talk radio was like, maybe he's a good coach, maybe he's not. I don't know. But the team was, like, dysfunctional. Didn't they have, like, no turnovers forced last year or something crazy like that?

[John Krasinski]

No.

[Zach Lowe]

1.

[Sean Fennesee]

I think it was 4, which was the fewest in league history.

[Zach Lowe]

I don't if.

[Sean Fennesee]

No interceptions.

[Zach Lowe]

Who's their quarterback?

[Sean Fennesee]

Geno Smith.

[Zach Lowe]

That something bad just happened with that.

[Mo De Kille]

Right.

[Sean Fennesee]

Prodigal son. Yeah. There was a report about some very bad behavior, potentially that has now been kind of debunked, but we're not sure.

[Zach Lowe]

I mean, the jets are such a laughing stock that if you're telling me you believe in them more than you believe in the Mets, I'm very, very upset and very sad. But also, football's weird people. Teams go from worse to first much more often.

[Sean Fennesee]

The one comparison that I've made between them that I think that. I think they both made the mistake of not firing their manager when it was very clear that they're not the right person. That Aaron Glenn is the head coach, Carlos Mendoza is the manager. Seems like they don't got it, you know? You know when you're watching a team and you're like, this team don't got it. Doesn't seem like they're listening to anybody. They're not disciplined. And the Knicks, of course, made that change, a very dramatic change before last season. Moving on from Tibbs bringing in Mike Brown. Controversial. A lot of fans didn't like it. A lot of pundits thought it was terrible. Turned out to be one of the best things that's ever happened to the franchise. So you got to take risks and you got to make changes sometimes. But you know what? Mets corner never changes. You know, just two guys being normal.

[Zach Lowe]

We'll be back. Sean Fennesee, the Big Picture with Amanda Dobbins and the new newsletter on substack projections, which I was just reading before you came on, it's outstanding and makes me think in a lot of different ways everyone should subscribe to that. You're the man. Thanks for your time and talking about this baseball team that is part of our lives.

[Sean Fennesee]

Thank you, Zach. And go Mets.

[Zach Lowe]

All right, that's it for today's edition of the Zach Lowe Show. Barring news, we won't be back till next week. That's what I said yesterday and then there was news. So whatever. Who knows what will happen, but probably next week. Thank you, Timo Tequil. Thank you to John Krasinski. Thank you to Sean Fennesee. No thank you to the New York Mets through 80 games this season. And thanks as always to Jonathan, Mike and Billy on production and to you all for listening to and or watching the Zach Low Show. We'll see you soon. 21 or over and President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President, D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincut or is it mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland? Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.

[Sean Fennesee]

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