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- [00:04]
A
When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans. Send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone.
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B
Learn more@WhatsApp.com all right, coming up on.
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A
The Zach Lowe Show, Rob Mahoney joins for the first ever podcast version of my league pass rankings. Rob did his own league pass rankings. I did mine using my normal crazy formula. Five categories, 1 to 10 score in each for each team. The categories are Zeitgeist, do normal people know about this team? Starshighlight, potential, self explanatory strategy and system, style of play. That's the coaching thing. League pass minutiae, Commentators, courts, jerseys, art, and then Bill's favorite category, grandfathered in unintentional comedy. The Javale McGee category. I don't think Rob did the scoring like that. I did. Then I combined our rankings into one super ranking. The official League Pass rankings for 2526 NBA season, which starts in like 29 hours or something. By the time you're hearing this craziness, we're already there. Who came last? Who came first? Who did? Rob and I disagree on all Coming up on the Zach Lowe Show. League Pass Rankings. The season's here, baby. You're listening to the Zach Lowe show presented by FanDuel. The NBA season put the power of the sportsbook in your hands with fanduel's your way. Your way lets you create bets you can't find any anywhere else. You can set your own lines or customize player props and you'll get new odds instantly. Plus with your way, you can even make head to head bets by position or player. Just download the FanDuel sportsbook app to play your way must be 21 over in President select states. An 18 year old over in DC, Kentucky and Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com call 1-887-89-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatinconnectican welcome to the Zach Low Show. It is a very special day on Monday, October 20th. Rob Mahoney is here. The NBA season somehow tips off tomorrow with two marquee games. And it's also a very special day because it's league pass rankings day. I I've done league pass rankings except for last year. About 15 straight times now this time we're experimenting with the podcast version. But I used my same formula. Rob Mahoney. I did not foist it onto you.
- [02:50]
B
No, thank you.
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A
A formula that is is taken down from the basketball gods. It exists on parchment paper somewhere. Got dug up in Bill Simmons backyard when he was doing construction on his newest pool. We found it and we have obeyed it. My five categories are Zeitgeist. Do people care about you? So that favors the good teams, stars, highlights. Okay, that's self explanatory style of play. ISO, ISO, ISO. Are you like fun to watch League Pass minutiae? I may weigh this one too heavily. It's the courts, the uniforms, the announcers. By the way, there's a separate discussion. Like is League Pass just, Is this it for League Pass? With all the games on national platforms, every day of the week, more inventory on national tv. So this might be a swan song for League Pass. An ode to the days of yore when league pass was the whole thing. And then Bill's category, unintentional comedy, which is unofficially the Javale McGee category. I score every team one to ten, add them up. I have a list, you have a list. I combine them. We're going to go worst to first in two parts. Are you ready?
- [03:57]
B
I am absolutely ready. Although I do have a question about your system. I mean, is this proprietary? Like is, is the Zach system trademarked? Are you looking to market it? Are you putting it out in the for other people to use?
- [04:08]
A
This is a sacred, sacred formula. Mortals can't really even understand it. It's, it's, it's got all sorts of notations and graphics and shapes that look like hieroglyphics. It belongs to the world. It belongs to the sport and all of those who love it. Okay, 30th we had the same team, dead last on both of our lists, both of our metrics. The Brooklyn Nets come in at number 30. I, I, they were actually 29th when I first did it. And I did the rare step of enacting a sub rule called the Iron Eagle Corollary. I made that up. It's not on the parchment paper.
- [04:50]
B
Yeah.
- [04:51]
A
And it just exists in cases in which when Brooklyn's A plus announcing team and generally pretty good art. I like the black and white. I like the Notorious B.I.G. coogee stuff, which they can't say it's Notorious B.I.G but it is for trademark purposes. I like all that. But when that takes them too high, like in the rankings, when it's clear that basketball wise they should be lower. We invoke the iron eagle category, eliminate that score and shove them down. They are 30th. They played hard. They'll play hard again. Camp Thomas going to take a lot of shots. Michael Porter Jr. Is going to take a lot of shots.
- [05:25]
B
Oh yeah.
- [05:26]
A
Nick Claxton is going to call for the ball and not get it. Sarah Czack is going to tell you exactly what's going on and pretend to really be enthusiastic about all the young players on the team who are throwing the ball into the stands and not at the hoop. Creative, fun young guys, you know, I. It's creative, fun young guys. Come watch all these 19 year old big tall point guards pass the ball around is a tough sell to the, to the normies. Rob.
- [05:48]
B
It's a tough sell for us, to be honest with you. I mean that's what it comes down to is it's not just can you market it towards the average NBA fan or the average Nets fan, but at the point where you're even losing guys like us who in theory, I love watching a big tall point guard go to work. I just don't love this many of them. And most importantly, I don't love a team that I think is going to be this plotting and this bad and this hopeless. Like what am I supposed to cling to at that point?
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A
Noah Clowney, I guess I know. I mean there's, there's, it's good luck. Jordan. Jordy Fernandez deserves the Will Hardy memorial contract extension. On top of contract extension. Come on top of contract extension. They were also 29th in dunks last year, by the way. This is the kind of thing I chart for the leaf patch range. Do you think I'm sitting here just going on vibes? I got stats, I got all sorts of things. They don't even freaking dunk.
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B
No.
- [06:39]
A
And then they'll trade their good players. Brooklyn, I don't have a lot to say. Love, love the crew, love the colors, love the uniform. I like that they've stuck with black and white. I like the herringbone court. That's kind of gray. That's cool.
- [06:51]
B
I'm actually into it.
- [06:52]
A
They were the first team to do that. I like all of it. The arena is as dead as a professional sports arena can possibly be. That bleeds into my broadcast experience. Okay. By Brooklyn.
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B
No, no. Quick question about Brooklyn. 1. You know, you mentioned that they will play hard and I think that might generally be true. But will they have the two week stretch where they kind of win some games and are vaguely competitive because like last season when they pulled that off, it was like a, a little defense forward. And I look at this team, which, as you said, is full of 19 year olds and also Cam Thomas's and Michael Porter juniors, and I'm like, do they even have that, like, feisty moment in them? I, I don't even know that they have that.
- [07:32]
A
I think they'll have a couple of feisty moments because Jordy will have them playing. Michael Porter Jr. Is like out there like auditioning for his next contract. Cam Thomas auditioning for new teams to trade for him. I'll tell you, if they simulcast, if they, if they spent four minutes of every other game putting in the corner, muting the game broadcast, apologies to Ian and Sarah and everyone else who does a great job there. And just having Michael Porter Jr's podcast clips sprinkled into the games, that might up their score a little bit because it was an outrageous summer of MPJ. Okay, number 29 on our combined list. 29th for you. It was. They actually came in tied for 27th to me, but they come 29th. You know, I might just sit this one out, Rob, and let you cook for a little bit because I cooked a lot. I overcooked it, I burned it, I cooked the meal again. I don't know that you did. I went to the bike store and bought extra locks. The Sacramento Kings, 29th. Yeah, I'm, I, I'm already, I, I just got nothing. I, I, I said it all, Rob, you go.
- [08:40]
B
I just have the feeling that when I watch the Kings play this season, it's going to ruin my whole night. Like there's going to be one too many gummy possessions leading to one too many dumb shots.
- [08:49]
A
You might want to take one too many gummies, by the way.
- [08:52]
B
Look, that might not be a bad pairing as these things go. I just think that I, when I watch them, I'm going to be in a bad mood. And this is just one of those teams that is so clearly less than the sum of its parts. And so whatever it is that I like about Domas Sabonis or DeMar DeRozan or Zach LaVine is muted by them playing together. The one variable I had as far as them being this low in the ranking is does adding Russ make them more or less watchable from a league pass standpoint? And where I landed was like, they're less watchable on an every night basis. If you are a Kings fan, that makes it harder to live with every up and down of the Russ experience. But if you're just parachuting in like we are for stretches or periods or games at a time. I actually think he might make them more watchable.
- [09:35]
A
You know, it's a great point. I. I executed the sacred formula before Russ was acquired and then was too lazy to redo it. He absolutely adds to the watchability scale because it's like a car crash. You don't. Or it's like, it's like, it's. It's like a high speed NASCAR race but with like one too many cars in the race where it could be exhilarating or it could be so disastrous. Like, miss at the rim, fall over, yell at the rev, fast break the other way. Another miss at the rim that like just goes off the backboard so hard you worry for the integrity of the glass in the backboard. And then a fat. But then also like four offensive rebounds on one possession screaming. Do you think Dario Sarge knows he plays for the Kings? Do you think he wakes up every day like, am I on. Am I on Sabona? Like, what? Where am I? What's going on in my life? How did I arrive at this moment?
- [10:26]
B
I think he was informed the other day when Doug Christie was like, by the way, you're starting for our actual NBA team. That was a thing that just happened in the preseason. And granted it's the preseason, but Jesus Christ. Like, who are these guys going to play without Keegan Murray?
- [10:39]
A
I can't. I can't anymore.
- [10:40]
B
I'm alarmed.
- [10:41]
A
I can't. They don't even play fast anymore. 25th in dunks last year despite having Zach Levine on your team. Nothing strategically all that interesting about them. I don't like the broadcast very much. There's too much purple. You know, I will say this. I'm excited for Nick Clifford. I want to see what Nico brings to the table. Okay, that is number 29. Number 28. Pretty similarly ranked on our respective lists. At least they're going back to the mountains and the snow in their uniforms. The Utah Jazz full of kids who are going to be interesting, fun to watch. We're going to learn about them. Ace. Ace Bailey bumped them up a few spots from. From the basement for me. Lowry Marketing. Will Hardy's always doing fun X's and O's things with Lowry Market. He's coming off pin downs, inverted pick and rolls. Got a lot of guys I kind of sneaky like to watch. My sensible is like come in and make some mid rangers and look like an old school mid mid range score. Flip. I like flip. Ryan Smith really Committed to the backwards hat. Respect that. The neon highlighter uniforms much ballyhooed. Those have been lit on fire and we will never. They are like poochie. It's like they went back to their planet and we'll never speak of them again.
- [11:57]
B
No acknowledgement.
- [11:58]
A
I like Taylor Hendricks super hard.
- [12:01]
B
I am a Taylor Hendricks guy. And so, you know, it hasn't been great yet and we'll have to see. I mean generally speaking he's been a little bit of a hit and miss kind of flashes in the pan kind of athlete and defender in particular. But I'm glad to see him back out there.
- [12:16]
A
I mean, I don't. Is there any. Can I interest you in Walker Kessler at all? You can actually, you know what, as an X's and O's, let's have a. Let's have a 30 second.
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B
Okay.
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A
Guy who's been in trade rumors for preposterous amounts. Guy who the Jazz very early on were like, we're not going to even really do a serious negotiation with you for an extension because we value the cap space and your cap hold more. How like what's the apex version of Walker Kessler to you? Like every. Every part of his game hits the ceiling. What is he?
- [12:48]
B
Quality defensive anchor, low mistake offensive player who not only is like getting you offensive rebounds and finishing well inside, but is low turnover and I think can like maybe do some very, very basic hub things. But ultimately not a guy you want the ball in his hands very much. All of which is to say like a version of Rudy Gobert, you know, like a vintage of that particular model, which is not a bad player at all. Which is a quality guy you could build at least your defense around.
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A
It's one of the lowest rankings for a Kyle Anderson team in league pass rankings history. Just one of the more deep cut basketball nerd. Yep. Like what is happening here? How does he make it work? And I early on in his career I realized he actually is so slow that he has weaponized his slowness.
- [13:37]
B
Oh yeah.
- [13:37]
A
All of his moves are so much slower than NBA players expect them to be that they're constantly lunging in the wrong direction. Assuming that he will be there in that place on this crossover dribble and he just hasn't crossed there yet. He'll get there, but by the time he gets there, you're going to be lunging the other way. Shout out to Slo Mo Little tease City City Edition jerseys have not been released yet. Utah fans are going to like them. Okay, 27. Are we up to 27. A team that you and I had ranked almost in the exact spot on our respective list. You had them 26. I had them tied for 25th. Team playing the fastest playing team last year.
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B
Sure.
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A
And a team who Matas Buzz Ellis is on a mission to make us regret ranking them 20. Your Chicago Bulls.
- [14:28]
B
So there are two reasons this team is watchable for me, Modest Bouzelis as you mentioned, I also love watching Kobe White cook just like dip and dive. Like the way he moves off the dribble is so unique that I cannot help but be entranced by it. Everything else about the way the Bulls play makes me feel like I'm going kind of insane. And they are fine in a lot of things, especially offensively. The stuff they're doing is like kind of right. Like they have a decently functional offense with a guy who can pass and, and it's geared towards the right kinds of outcomes. But it's all just so whatever that I'm left in this like uncanny valley of kind of good, not really good. I'm looking for any reason to be excited about what they're doing and it's just so hard to come by other than those two guys.
- [15:13]
A
Bouzelis has a chance to be really exciting.
- [15:16]
B
Yes.
- [15:17]
A
I did a deep dive on him a few months ago and talked about the flashes of ball handling craft mostly as a secondary ball handler last season. Coming off a pin down catch, go right into a pick and roll. We've seen a little more primary in the preseason. He's got a little shimmy to him. Yes, he's got a little nasty to him where he'll hit you with the shoulder, bump you off, get a floater.
- [15:39]
B
The Franz Wagner kind of like physicality.
- [15:42]
A
He'll go at your body at the rim and say, and like say to himself, I'm still going to be ascending when I hit you and you're going to go, you're going to descend and I'm going to dunk on your face. But to the blondness, sadly enough, Vuch has really come to symbolize the blondness and the good outcome. Blah result. Part of this like five out center Josh Giddy sets him up for looks.
- [16:05]
B
Yep.
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A
Defenses are like yeah, cool shoot and Vuch had a good shooting year last year sandwiched around a bunch of bad shooting years and he, he's and, and symbolic of the way he plays dead last and dunks the Chicago Bulls by like a lot last season. Love the red and black. Love Benny. The Bulls, love the Allen Parsons project. We don't really get to see that on the broadcast. Maybe we'll get to see that more with NBC or Amazon. Like that. That should be mandatory. It's the most exciting thing about the Chicago Bulls games right now is the Alan Parsons project. Don't love the army of. What do they do? Guys on the wing that just like you can just, you know, like Charles. Like if they still do. Who he played for on TNT/ESPN. Dalen Terry, Julian Phillips. Like Charles is going to have no shot. Isaac Okoro even maybe, maybe, you know, not. Not identifiable.
- [16:59]
B
Honestly, Pat Williams, who he play for? You know, does he play for the Chicago Bulls some nights you would not be able to tell.
- [17:06]
A
Well, it's a good thing they're paying him $90 million to play for them. I spent a long time on Pat Williams Island. It. I lost my. I lost my investment. I do like Stacy King a lot, by the way. I think he's unfairly maligned by both fans. Give me the hot sauce. Okay, what are we up to? 26 now. 26 another team. You had him 24th. I had him tied for 25th. I think they're going to out kick this ranking. Canada's own Toronto Raptors. Shout out. Matt Devlin and Jack Armstrong. Get the confidence out of here. We all know the starting five is going to be a weird maybe interesting, maybe so clunky that the interesting parts are not that interesting kind of test for them. You know, Jakob Hurdle takes a lot of floaters. Jamal Shed gets India on defense. They fouled the bejesus out of Everybody. They were 29th in opponent free throw rate. I told you to bring stats to this because you know what? Sucks to watch Robini opponent free throw. Yes, sucks to watch 27th in dunks. And yet I'm interested. Like I'm into this. I'm into the Brandon Ingram part of it. How does he fit in? I'm into just. They passed the ball all over the floor. Whether their passes are productive, I have no idea. But they sure like run the three man weave and pitch the ball back and forth and do some crazy passing stuff like the courts like the dinosaurs. We're getting out of the Drake uniform business this year. I like that less Drake equals good. I don't know, man. I'm surprised they're wherever we had them, 26.
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B
I am not surprised. I feel like even if they're pretty good and like, look, there's a decent chance this team is pretty good, if enough of the variables break their way, they're going to be pretty good by Grinding out games with good defense by not having a lot of spacing. And I don't think it's going to be particularly fun to watch. I don't think it's going to be like a good consumer product. Toronto Raptors basketball and I say that, acknowledging some of my biases, like, part of this. For me as a theorist, I am interested in Brandon Ingram, Toronto Raptor as an, you know, just someone interested in like, the aesthetics of the game. I actively dislike watching Brandon Ingram play basketball. There is a, like, every decision he makes is a half beat too late thing that he does that drives me absolutely crazy. And when I see him in concert with RJ Barrett, with Scotty Barnes, I'm just like, I'm wondering not just about the starting five as a whole, but even within the starting five, are any of these specific synergies going to work? Are any of these guys going to benefit playing with one another? I have so many questions about that that I'm like a little pessimistic on, which is why I think they end up in this part of the ranking for me. I just, I want to see it in action, but I'm not enthusiastic about what it's going to look like.
- [19:51]
A
Brandon Ingram is the most interesting player on the team. Emmanuel Quickley is the most pivotal swing player. Is this going to come together glue kind of player on the team. Scotty Barnes is the most important player on the team short term and long term. Ingram is so fascinating for everything you just said. I have long struggled to put into words what it is about his game that doesn't add up to his statistics. Like, you look at his stats like, oh my God, 25, 5 and 5, and you watch him and it doesn't feel like he impacts winning at that kind of level and impacts. Winning is such an empty calories cliche. It means nothing. And I've always struggled to put it into words and I've just defaulted to like, defensively, he's. His passing decision making is. And maybe you just put it into words like, it's just not dynamic enough, not fast enough, not. It's one step ahead behind instead of one step ahead. The volume of threes has gone up and down and then way too low. It's all of that together. And yet when he plays with a little bit more verve. And I've talked to him about this, I've talked to him about like, you're so long that you're closer to the rim than you think you are sometimes. And if you just go, you'll get there and draw fouls. When you make the right pass quickly, maybe even a simple pass to the shooter on the side and get the machine moving and cut and move there. There's something more there. It just doesn't come out. And like I even think back to the playoffs in 2022. Pelican Suns. Pelicans overmatched against the Suns team that was a 60 plus win team that year. 27, 6 and 6 on 48% shooting and looked every part of the. You're kind of scared that this guy has the ball late in games.
- [21:35]
B
Totally.
- [21:36]
A
The Suns and just hasn't really appeared as much since then. They're also. I think the Raptors are also going to like press. They're going to be like a Pacers kind of team that presses and closes out like Mad Men and uses their size. Forces a lot of turnovers. That could be kind of fun. If you're going to foul a lot, at least do me the courtesy of creating a lot of fast breaks.
- [21:55]
B
It's the least you could do.
- [21:57]
A
Anything else on our wraps? The Dinos. Dinos are back. Like the dinosaurs on the court. And the uniforms. A big fan of the Dinosaurs.
- [22:03]
B
I mean, did they ever truly leave? I feel like I guess for a period they did, but I feel like they've been around in secondary tertiary jerseys, alternate logos, enough of them. Merch certainly. Like they've been in the air for a while, but I am glad to have them back more formally.
- [22:17]
A
Last time I was out in Toronto, I almost bought a purple dinosaur 15 Vince Carter jersey.
- [22:26]
B
Yeah.
- [22:26]
A
And then I realized at that time, I'm 47 years old. Can't wear a jersey. It's just not going to look good. Can't wear a T shirt under a jersey because that's just surrender. Nope, there was no T shirt of it. There was a sweatshirt of it. Like, I don't want a sweatshirt without a hood.
- [22:44]
B
I kind of like that, though.
- [22:45]
A
It's bulky. It just. It wasn't. It wasn't working for me, Rob. But I really wanted one. Okay. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by FanDuel. All right, basketball's back. That's right. We're here. And FanDuel is putting you in control. Right from tip off every day to start the season. You get to choose your reward, play it safe, go for it. Feeling bold, that's your move. Whatever your style, you're in control. So what kind of better are you? However you play, FanDuel is giving you the power to choose your reward and own your game every single day to start the NBA season. Head to FanDuel.com low to make your choice. Must be 21 or over in President select states or 18 and over. I'm President in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in. Required rewards are non withdrawable. Restrictions apply including bonus and token expiration, leg requirements and max wager amount. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com gambling problem. Call 1-900-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-7897 or visit ccpg.org chatinconnecticut this episode is brought to you by Scout Motors. Everyone loves a good comeback story like when Michael Jordan broke his foot in 85, then returned that same season and set a new record for most points scored in a postseason game. Another comeback that's just as exciting. The Scout Traveler and Scout Terra are returning new and improved with four wheel drive and a projected 1000 pound feet of torque. Join the wait list@scoutmotors.com Concept vehicles not available for sale. Features and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the waitlist is not guaranteed to purchase. Visit scoutmotors.com for details. Number 25 and now we get to a team that you and I differed quite a bit on. You had them at 28th, I had them at 20th. They met out here. The Phoenix Suns. Why'd you hate this Phoenix Suns team so much? I'm a little intrigued by. I think they're going to play hard and be a little feisty and see what these young centers can give us. I like the uniforms, courts. Eddie Johnson's just talking trash throughout the game on the, on the announce with, with, with Kevin Gray. I there's some things to like, but you're not in, you're out.
- [24:47]
B
I am distinctly out, I would say. I mean look for two fundamental reasons. One, I have seen overtax to Devin Booker before and I did not find it enjoyable to watch. I suspect that's going to be a lot of the case again this season. I also find Jalen Green just to be one of the most frustrating players in the league.
- [25:02]
A
He's just not your cup of tea. Like he just screams Rob Mahoney's gonna hate watching this guy.
- [25:06]
B
I really, it's just again constantly leaves you wanting a little bit more in the moments where you really need him to deliver and he'll be really great for the stretches where it doesn't matter so much and that's just ultimately the balance of some guys games. I'm impressed when he is Good. I'm just like constantly begging for Jalen Green to turn the corner, and he has not done it yet. Maybe this is the year. Maybe that makes them super watchable in the grand scheme of things. Otherwise. Yeah, there's some guys who are going to play hard. Yeah, there's the Charlotte Hornets center rotation. I'm okay with those things, but I'm not eager to tune into them, especially with all the other teams on the board.
- [25:43]
A
Jalen Green might end up being a cautionary tale for me in five years where I have to remind myself, even though I am cognitively already aware of it, that you can't get too seduced by the athleticism. If and assume the decision making will catch up because the tools look to be. I mean, there's a reason he's the number two pick in the draft and you watch him play like this is a top 1% NBA athlete.
- [26:08]
B
Yes.
- [26:08]
A
And when you put him against other NBA athletes, even if he's a little better, he's not huge. And because they're all great athletes, the decision making, the shaky decision making, sort of undoes a lot of what's there. I'm. I still. I'm intrigued enough that I don't mind his contract. I don't mind the Suns taking a shot at him. Don't love the fit with Booker. Don't love the fact that once they get by Booker, I don't really trust anyone to handle the ball very much. No, except Colin Gillespie I trust, but it's just not that exciting. I will say, does Grayson Allen always look kind of sad to you? That hurt the score here? It's just like a sad visage to me. Just like he moves sad. He looks sad. That hurt. I don't like that. That hurt their score, like a little bit. A tenth of a point.
- [26:50]
B
Is it a look or is it an energy? Like, is it just how he carries himself or is it his demeanor?
- [26:55]
A
I don't know. It's a little bit of both. Maybe. I could. I could just be. I could just be projecting. All right, next up, another team that I had a little higher than. Well, significantly six spots higher than you. Because I am admittedly seduced by the hardest playing, roughest, toughest, mean, of course, Heat culture. That court is gone. That helped their rankings tremendously. The Miami Spice stuff is coming back. Peak Vice that upped their rankings. Well, tremendously. They're. They were 21st on my list. I suspect a lot of your trepidation, not lack of interest in watching this team a million times has to do with the fact that their offense has just been stuck in mud for so long. They don't run, they don't dunk, they don't. They don't do really anything all that exciting on offense. It really does come down to that, doesn't it?
- [27:51]
B
It does. Like it's very hard to get excited about a team that's going to be pretty solid defensively and rank like 23rd on offense while not only not doing any of the exciting plays on like a moment to moment basis, but there's not even a like guys on this roster who I am locked in and surprised actively by what they do. Like Bam has settled into this groove of his career. He does what he does. That stuff is really important. He's a high level player. Otherwise this is going to be a lot of Tyler hero when he comes back again, which I, you know, played the best basketball of his career, technically speaking. Didn't result in all that much. This is going to be a lot of Norm Powell who I like cooking. I don't know if I like cooking to the degree that he's going to have to cook. It's going to be a lot of like Nikola Jovic. It's just a lot of guys who are fine to pretty good who are stretched beyond their limits in roles that are unsustainable for them. And that's not what I'm looking to tune into on my Thursday night.
- [28:49]
A
They don't get any points for Simone Fontechio's three point celebration traveling south.
- [28:55]
B
Of course they do. Hey, that's the team that employs Simone Fontechio gets a one spot bump. But this is still where they are.
- [29:03]
A
Bill has accused me of Pan Yugoslavian bias and just being overly excited about anyone whose last name ends with itch. And I'm very hyped. I'm excited about Nikola Jovich. I'm sorry Yakachunas. We'll see if he brings anything to the table.
- [29:19]
B
Yep.
- [29:21]
A
I mentioned the vice court. I just love the heat. I think the heat's just general core look is underrated. I like the blood red looks sometimes orangey to me, but I think it's blood red. I like the flaming ball going through the hoop. I I like all that. I like spo the most enthusiastic waiver when he's trying to get his team to run in the he's three steps on the court, full extension on the arm and wave. Wave. It always reminds me of like when swim coach I grew up a swimmer. Swim coaches will stand on the pool deck and when you're swimming by them. They'll point like, go, go, go. It's like, I already know I got to go in that direction. Like, like, I like. I like. What kind of coaching is that? Like, go. I already know. The point is to get to over there fast. It's just. That's what I think of when I see SPO waiting. Is that our players? Like, oh, yeah, let's. Now I'm gonna go faster. He's licking him, Wave.
- [30:17]
B
But do the Heat know? Genuinely, do they know that they should be going faster? It's one of the league's great mysteries.
- [30:23]
A
He's getting cardio out there. SPO is getting a workout in the. All right. I even like the Broadcast now. I like, you know, whatever. I only had them 24 first, but. Okay, where are we going next? Let's see. Above, the Miami Heat. Surprising. Well, maybe not surprisingly low because they're best player. You just don't know how often he's going to play. Yeah, we had them both in this area. Number 23, the New Orleans Pelicans. You know, obviously, if ZION gives you 70 games, this score is going to be higher significantly. Sadiq bay once scored 50 points in a game.
- [30:54]
B
Yep.
- [30:55]
A
Jordan Pool. How can I say this nicely? Bad Jordan Poole. Sequences are going to hit the unintentional comedy scale really hard. Drake, like, shimmy, shimmy, shimmy. 20 on the shot clock. Maybe a guy wide open over there. Step back. 28 footer hits backboard only. Jordan Pool just looks puzzled by the entire turn of events. Like, oh, I thought that was going in. Meanwhile, the team, other team, leaks out behind him. His guy scores, and he's just sort of like, well, okay, Jose Alvarado sneaking up behind people for steals. That's always crouching in the corner, literally hiding in the game. There's. There's. I like the Broadcast, obviously. Like Zion, I like Herb. Give me all the herbs and Herb's arms. Derek, Queen boy, he better be good.
- [31:46]
B
Too much pressure on him, frankly.
- [31:47]
A
Is this too low?
- [31:49]
B
It's too low for their high outcome. But look, I think there's teams in these rankings where you don't know what to expect. And that's a great thing, right? It feels like a mystery box. Like. Like every night is a gamble in a way that could really, really pay off. The Pelicans, both with the combination of players and their injury, luck, and history, feel like a mystery. And I don't know what to expect, but in a way that just makes me hard to get, like, riled up about the experience of watching this team overall this season, like I think they're probably going to be okay. But again, okay if Zion Williamson doesn't play enough games versus if he plays the whole season look and feel totally different. So I don't know. Again, this is one of those teams that just feels so muted to me in the middle here. And some of it is going to come down to just like who plays and when.
- [32:34]
A
Can Trey Murphy broaden out his game even more? Can he take more of a responsibility handling the ball, running the offense? I'm excited for that. Fears I think has got some juice. More broadly, does this ranking signify that we are scarred by his absence and are taking for granted a little bit what peak Zion looks like on a basketball court because he was single handedly like a top five league pass ranking three years ago.
- [33:04]
B
I think there's probably something to that. I think there's also something to the way that all of these pieces intersect where it's like even if we get peak Zion, is peak Zion getting looked off for those Jordan pool like lowlights that you described, how does that impact his investment, his off ball movement, his energy level? Like what is the version of Zion we get in conjunction with these other players? There's some of that we know, right? Like Zion and Herb Zion and Trey Murphy, him and Poole, I don't know. Him and Derrick Queen, I don't know Kavon Looney already injured. Genuinely a bummer because somebody's gonna need to rebound all those Jordan Poole shots. We're always hopeful for the Zion experience and I think there's reason to believe in it given the transformation of his body and where he is right now, just as a human being. But I'm going to need to believe it. I'm going to need to see it to believe it.
- [33:52]
A
I guess that's fair. I just.
- [33:56]
B
Haven't we been hurt too many times? Like at some point we just have to default to low expectations and then have him hurdle over them if that's what it comes down to.
- [34:06]
A
That Lakers game when he got hurt and hasn't been the same since then, wasn't the same last year when he was on the court. By the way, he ascended a little bit as the season went on, but the finishing, the explosiveness wasn't quite the same. That dude though, that Peak guy, there's just nothing you can do with him. Like he's getting to the basket and if he misses, he's going to get off the ground before anyone else on the floor and maybe twice if he needs to Pogo stick his way to his own miss. I hope we see that guy. Your remarks about being scarred and hoping for the best and expecting the worst.
- [34:39]
B
Yeah.
- [34:39]
A
All right. Perfect transition into number 22 on our list. You had them at 23. I had them a little higher than that. The Philadelphia 76ers. I think we know. You know, there's a lot of. I'm going to just say this. This ranking is going to be low and I think we're all coming into the season a little too low on the Sixers, myself included. They were a universal triple under for me, Bill and House at 42 1/2 wins. We all know why PG hasn't played yet. Embiid played one game, looked okay. Looked okay.
- [35:09]
B
Yeah.
- [35:10]
A
I think that but for this, for this ranking, for this just fun times ranking, I think this is too low for like Maxi Edgecomb Grimes. I think that's going to be a ton of fun. This Adembona Embiid double big thing. Is that going to be a thing? I don't know. I hope not. Nick Nurse always looks a little anguished. Like at all times. Elite catchers crouch on the sideline too. Like they're brought back to Iverson uniforms in the Iverson court major. All their art is a plus. Have to say I don't love the broadcast. It's. It's Pravda level Sixers propaganda. Don't enjoy it. Trended Watford's floater. I do enjoy always. But yeah, is this just and one thing about Embiid, if, if he's healthy and he plays. We talked about free throws and fouls. The Philly games are slow and he's a little bit of a grifter. I think that's okay to say. All the great ones are. They use their greatness to grift a couple extra free throws here and there. It's just like a lot of free throws. But at least he makes them. He's one of the all time great big men free throw shooters.
- [36:16]
B
Very true.
- [36:17]
A
I just think 20, 22, I actually.
- [36:20]
B
Think the Sixers are going to be pretty deep, like a pretty good team. I think in terms of actual performance they are a little better than this. But in terms of the watch ability. Zach life is like complicated and terrifying and unendingly stressful and I don't know if I want to invite the anxiety of every time Joel Embiid falls over into my life on an ongoing regular.
- [36:44]
A
Basis for the rankings is like. I mean he did get hurt for a little bit when he his most Maybe his most spectacular play ever. When he threw the ball off the backboard to himself against the Knicks and dunked it and then fell.
- [36:56]
B
Yeah.
- [36:57]
A
And are like, are we just. Is every. And nobody falls more. And he's talked about fouling. Is falling as a strategy. Okay. But it is, it is. Like I get anxious. I can't imagine being like Daryl Morey or Elton Brandon, Nick Nurse. Like I just. Like they need EMTs on staff.
- [37:14]
B
Yes. Like they are. My ideal basketball experience is. Yes. There's ebbs and flow. You're feeling the energy in the course of the game and then you get these pops of excitement. Right. And my worry with the Sixers is there's just going to be a low hum of anxiety watching this team all the time because of Embiid, because of Paul George. And then. Yeah, you're going to get Edgecombe making incredible eye popping plays. And that guy is a like a genuinely jaw dropping athlete who has the quick twitch stuff that will make you jump off your couch. But is that going to feel the same without the normal feeling game underneath? If everything is always so anxious, how am I going to feel about the best of Sixers basketball? I honestly don't know.
- [37:56]
A
Here's what I want back. I want back the feeling that we had so often in his MVP season and when he had the 70 point game and 50 point games and all that. When we're in the middle of a game, like a capital G game for Embiid where he's completely unstoppable and every single possession is just get the ball to Embiid at the nail.
- [38:19]
B
Yeah.
- [38:19]
A
Like the post ups are cool. He's a great post up player and they'll mix that in. But like 10 possessions in a row. Give me the ball at the nail. Yes. Watch how the deal. And I'm gonna hold it with one hand, with one giant hand. And I'm just gonna watch. People are gonna cut. I'm watching for what the defense is going to do. Where's the help? Where's my driving lane going to be? What are my choices? Because my options are infinite. I can just shoot. I can back you down from the nail. I can pump and go. I can finish with either hand. I could bait you into a foul. I am in that moment, Joel Embiid, in complete control of everything that's happening in the game.
- [38:57]
B
Yeah.
- [38:57]
A
I am the game. And those. And when he's in the middle of a great game, the buzz, the excitement, the anticipation in the crowd for him just to get the ball before he even gets it is palpable and exciting in a way that only, like, five basketball players at any given time can make you feel completely. I hope we get some of that.
- [39:18]
B
I also think it's what separates him from even some of the other best players out there. Like, there is a. There is a mental gear shift that allows Joel Embiid to be an absolute killer in that specific way. In, like, I have already used five straight possessions, and I don't feel the need to defer because I know what I've got and I know I can score. And it's something that you'll like. You'll see Nicole Jokic feel guilty after scoring a couple times in a row, and he wants to get other guys involved. You'll even see Giannis, like, take his foot off the gas sometimes after he scored a couple times in a row. It's like a normal human nature aspect of playing a team sport. And what makes some of the exceptional scores so exceptional. And I think. I think Joelle is really good about this. I think Aunt Edwards is really good about this. Is like they can push through that momentary hesitation and guilt over being as dominant as they are. And when Joel does that, it's what makes him so watchable. You know, despite the grifting, despite the falling, despite whatever anxieties you may have about his game, that version of this guy is one of the most watchable players in the league.
- [40:21]
A
We forgot about Jared McCain in the you should watch this team for the guards monologue at the beginning that I had because he's already injured. You should watch this team for some of the guards. Johnny Broom's kind of interesting as we're naming guys. And, you know, he's old now. Not sure if he's more a player, more a coach, more a TV analyst, but at some point during the season, Kyle Lowry is going to get on the floor and fuck some shit up for some young guy who doesn't know what this dude is capable of either guarding the post or swiping for a steal or just screening you or something. And it's going to be a fun little nod to the past. Okay, that is number 22. Number 21 on our list is the first. We come now to the first good team, legit good team on the list, and a team so good that you're like, wait, they're here. How is it possible that they're not above the Wizards or any number of mediocrities above them, and yet just as much high wattage talent as they have as deep and A little bit different as they might be this year because of one or two key moves. I just have never felt like, all right, I'm excited to settle in and watch another Clippers game. They're just like not that exciting to watch. I don't know if it's Harden playing Harden ball, even though he has beautiful chemistry with Zhou and is one of the great passers in the league.
- [41:48]
B
Yep.
- [41:48]
A
I don't know if it's Kawhi penciled him in for however many games missed. And when he plays is his sort of like mid range artistry, like, are we not appreciating enough? I don't, I don't know if it's the age of the team, but they have a lot of good, A lot of players like to watch. Nick Batum just always helping out. Brook Lopez, good backup center. Chris Dunn just taking people's cornbread all the time. John Collins, new element of verticality, athleticism, size, dunking, love. I mean, Kawhi was one of my, has been one of my favorite players to watch. Obviously there's a whole other Kawhi thing going on. Why is this team so, so low?
- [42:27]
B
I think it is the elements you described, I would say especially the Derrick Jones, John Collins vertical athletic elements of this team are a drop in the bucket. What is ultimately a super deliberate basketball operation. Everything is at its own pace. Everything is like not just at its own pace, but one tempo. There's no change, there's no gradation. It's one tempo, it's one dynamic. They play their style. That style is awfully effective. And I think the versions that honestly get my like blood going the most are the Chris Dunn in your face defensive versions of this team that get them moving a little bit more and feel like just like a little more frenetic in a good way. But other than that, they are applauding team, right? They are a team that's going to take their time and get into their stuff. And let me tell you, like, adding Chris Paul is not going to change that. Particularly I think at their most watchable beyond the defense. This version of the team I think could be really fun in a as you kind of alluded to with Kyle Lowry, like the old head in the gym makes the young kid look ridiculous kind of way. Like there's so much veteran know how with this team that could be kind of fun. But other than that, like they do what they do and what they do is effective in basketball terms and not necessarily the most captivating to just like tune into on TV fourth in dunks.
- [43:47]
A
Last year, which surprised me. Zoo is a lot of that.
- [43:49]
B
Yes, I do love watching Zoo, but a zoo dunk is not necessarily the same thing as a Derrick Jones Jr. Dunk.
- [43:57]
A
You mentioned the old heads embarrassing the young guys. Harden once every five games, maybe maybe even more frequently than that is good for a Drop a dude on his ass. Yes, make him touch earth and shoot a step back three. And either way, from that point on, it's massively entertaining. If he makes it. You have foisted humiliation onto this poor dude. He's a highlight if he misses it. Sometimes he misses it badly and it almost feels like he doesn't really care that he missed because he's taunted the guy for a couple dribbles that fell on his ass. CP3 I will forever love old short nasty CP3 using every trick in the book to maximize his odds of success on any given possession.
- [44:47]
B
Amen.
- [44:48]
A
Up to and including enforcing the untucked jersey rule or inbounding the ball from the other side of the court when he feels like it and senses the other team isn't ready for it. I am a little worried. You think Ballmer tones it down courtside this year because of all this? Like I I I I want to see the like, I want to see all. I want to see the gingham shirt flailing in the wind. I want to see all of it. Are we, are we not going to see that theater this year?
- [45:14]
B
Zach, I think it's very charming that you think he's capable of that, that you think he would be capable of toning it down. I Speaking of guys who only have one dynamic level, I don't think there's a lot of modulation that's even possible there.
- [45:26]
A
All right, well, so much for the clippers. The Wall.
- [45:32]
B
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Listening to this podcast Smart move Being financially savvy.
- [45:40]
A
Smart move.
- [45:41]
B
Another smart move having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer, availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state.
- [46:02]
A
This episode is brought to you by Jack Daniels. Jack Daniels and music are made for each other. They share a rhythm in the craft of making something timeless while being a part of legendary nights. From backyard jams to sold out arenas, there's a song in every toast. Please drink responsibly responsibility.org, jackDaniels and Old.
- [46:20]
B
Number 7 are registered trademarks. Tennessee whiskey, 40% alcohol by volume.
- [46:23]
A
Jack Daniel Distillery, Lynchburg, Tennessee. Okay, number 20, this is where you have to explain yourself.
- [46:33]
B
I'm happy to.
- [46:35]
A
You had this team at number seven, a top seven league pass basketball watching experience for you, the Washington Wizards, who I had at 29 for obvious reasons. I'm very excited about a lot of young guys. They're also going to be very bad. Khris Middleton. There's like a pathos to Khris Middleton right now that just makes me sad. Like, I like none of. I don't feel any of, like, well, the old guy is going to come out and mentor Trey Johnson and Bub Carrington, and I just feel like he's sad. Marvin Bagley is sad. Not a fan of the broadcast or the art, but you. Rob Mahoney. I don't know if it's Keyshawn George that's doing it for but like seven.
- [47:23]
B
I'm glad you identified Keyshawn George off the top because have you seen what Keyshawn George has been doing? Have you seen what he's been up to?
- [47:30]
A
I've seen glimpses, I've seen hints of more Keyshawn George happening in the preseason than happened last season.
- [47:36]
B
There could not be a more my guy on a rebuilding team in the league than Keyshawn George. So I'm holding my stock. I'm feeling very good about it. I may just be able to retire on it someday ultimately. Like, I am so completely locked in on the roulette wheel spin of fascinating young guys with the Wizards. And you know, you have your proprietary system, I have mine. I am less concerned with the zeitgeist. I'm less concerned with like, who is capturing the spirit in the moment of the NBA. I want, like, who's the one for me? Who's the team that I am plugged in on that nobody else really cares about? And I can just, I can just have this for myself. I don't have to share it with the world. I don't have to be screaming from the rooftops because nobody cares about my takes about Bilal Koulibaly that much. I just, I just get to absorb Wizards basketball nightly and be like, is tonight a Cam Whitmore night? Is tonight an A.J. johnson night? Is tonight the night that Alex Sar scores a basket? I don't know, but I'm really eager to find out.
- [48:33]
A
I must be higher on Alex Sauer than almost anyone in the world because every Time he comes up on a podcast, it's a punchline just like that.
- [48:41]
B
I'm sorry, how?
- [48:42]
A
Like, Hollinger was like, will Alex Saar ever make a basket at the rim? I call him Mr. Almost because it's just like, everything's right and then the shot doesn't go in or it's like, off the wrong leg or on the way down when it could have been much simpler. Yeah, look what Mr. Almost irons out. The Almost part of it. I think he's going to be a pretty damn good player. Trey J. Looks every bit the part of just wind him up and put him in a real NBA team.
- [49:05]
B
This one. Talk about.
- [49:07]
A
I actually really like a lot of their young players. I think they have an underrated young nucleus of players. Which would you rather be, the Wizards or the Blazers? Right now, just theoretically, Blazers are on my mind because of all the extensions that we're going to talk about shortly. Who would you rather be?
- [49:22]
B
I would rather be the Blazers, just because I feel a little more confident that I have some tent poles. You know, they may not be stars, but like, with Tumani, with Denny in particular, I feel like, okay, this is a solid foundation for something. The reason I like watching the Wizards and then have them so high in my ranking is I don't. I don't know if any of these guys are that. But the act of becoming is a captivating thing in itself. And if, like, Bub Carrington, it turns out to be one of those guys, amazing. If he doesn't, honestly, at this point in the game, that's okay. And so, like, I like. I personally, I like the stability of Portland, but as a viewer, I like the chaos of Washington.
- [49:58]
A
I want to watch every A.J. johnson minute that there is this year, and there's going to be a lot of them.
- [50:02]
B
This is what I'm talking about. Like, how are you not higher on this team?
- [50:05]
A
I have to reward. There has to be some category that rewards the good, irrelevant teams. I picture myself going to a dinner party. Actually, now I picture you going to a dinner party and just going around the room being like. You ever heard of Cam Whitmore? No.
- [50:20]
B
Can I show you some. Can I give you a brochure? I have some very interesting pamphlets for you.
- [50:25]
A
Did you see Balakula Bali's attack Attack that closeout last night, like, the way he kind of paused and Euro stepped into it? No. Okay. And I just picture you lonely, just wanting to talk about this team. And I can go to a party and be like, hey, I want to Talk about Jokic. And like, yeah, everyone's going to want to talk about Jokic. Even casual fans. I'm just worried about you in the world with this level of Washington Wizards importance in your brain.
- [50:49]
B
I will be the meme of the guy in the corner being like, they don't know about Bilal Koulibaly, but that's okay. Again, this is kind of what we're after on some levels. I would argue, Zach, there are many other mechanisms to reward the teams that are actually good. Other actual power rankings, the NBA playoffs, general discussion throughout the season. This is our moment to zero in on the other shit. AKA the things that make me interested and excited. And the league pass experience. And the Washington Wizards to me embody that part of basketball.
- [51:18]
A
Should they change the name and I don't mean should they change it back to the Bullets, because I don't think that's ever going to happen. Or has this name now acquired enough sort of power by inertia that you're happy with the Wizards? They've now they've moved away. Like Gandalf doesn't. Really. Is not really a part of their art anymore. Are you. But do you like the name or should we take it back to scratch and figure out, like, open it up to fans. Let's have a contest and end up somewhere else.
- [51:41]
B
I don't think there's enough bad funk with this team. I think they're. Honestly, there's some other teams we have yet to talk about that feel so cursed. Maybe they should consider changing their names. This one is like so meh. And I actually do like the general kind of like jersey style and esthetic. Washington wise. Maybe not necessarily the Wizards element of it. I also think the Wizards, the actual wizard logo, the Gandalfy elements you described might be the one exception to the cyclical rule of everything coming back. Like, we have seen all of those ERA jerseys come back into vogue. I don't think anybody's gonna be clamoring for the Gandalfs. I don't think anyone's gonna be clamoring for like, the shiny gold joints that they wore one time. Like, I think there's some things in Wizards lore that are just gonna be left for dead.
- [52:26]
A
I am clamoring for the Cherry Blossom jerseys that were amazing and immediately went away because the Wizards fans just can't have anything. Nice. Stick around. All right, whiz. Nice. Nice. Oh, Corey Kispert. Roger Federer Light with the bandana and the hair. Just unbelievable hair. And by the way, Roger Federer Light's not an insult. We're not talking about athletes. I'm just talking strictly hair, bandana or whatever. Headband combo. A plus work from Corey.
- [52:54]
B
Pittsburgh.
- [52:55]
A
Okay, we're up to number 19. We're in the teens. Boy, what a disappointing ranking for the Boston Celtics. I had them a little higher than you had them, but we had them right smack in the middle. They get docked. A couple of important things up front here. Light the black jerseys on fire. Most black jerseys suck because it's just this. It's the least creative pseudo creative ideas like, let's make a black jersey and we don't have. We don't have any better ideas. Light them on fire. They suck. They should start every game. Down five, zero. When I wear them. See number two.
- [53:27]
B
No, hold on. I need to push back on this. Black is immortal for a reason, right? It has never left, like, the fashion world in any sense. It is a staple. It underlines everything that happens in terms of color combination coordination. I agree. It's uninspired. I would argue that the problem with the current NBA jersey climate is people are trying to be a little too inspired. Everything needs to be like, so, oh, we need. We need these City Edition jerseys rolling out every year. We need new and inventive ideas all the time. Maybe there's a little too much of everyone having a third alternate black jersey every now and again, but I gotta say, like, purely aesthetically, I don't mind it at all.
- [54:06]
A
And there's also the thing of, like, well, if you squint down at the insert of the shorts, you can see the logo just stenciled in from 1972 and are like, no one is ever going to see that. It's a complete waste of time and space. I will say they're City Edition jerseys. I don't know if you saw these. They're gold lettering. White. White jerseys, gold lettering. First Boston jersey to not feature green in any way. I don't like it. I don't want. Green should be everywhere. The green jersey is the best jersey in the NBA. That. Okay. That said, I am legit. We all know it's going to be very. Barring a Tatum comeback. Maybe, maybe not. I don't know. Even so, probably a gap year in terms of championship contention where this team has been for so long. Now I am interested to see how they play. Absolutely. Because there's this. There's this. Well, Missoula is just going to amp it up to like a million threes per game and do all this crazy stuff. As I have said before. Maybe to you, I would actually like to see it go back the other way. Like, we will play that way. We're always going to take a lot of threes. That's going to be a core principle of ours, particularly when we're healthy. What else can we tap into stylistically that we're not doing enough that might translate when we get whole again?
- [55:22]
B
The whole point of this season for the Celtics should be what are the opportunities we can capitalize on with lower expectations versus when we have our fully available lineup back with Jayson Tatum? And so if you're not thinking first and foremost about how can we deviate from our formula, how can we find the things that augment and complement what we do? I just think you're thinking about this season entirely wrong. Like, they're not going to be good enough to knock up against the best teams in the Eastern Conference. They're also probably not going to be bad enough to be terrible unless they really start pulling plugs or a lot of guys get hurt or frankly, if, like, maybe the center rotation is even worse than we fear. Though I like Nimajkeda. Like, I am interested in that general experiment, so I'm. I think it's going to be fine enough to not be terrible. But I agree with you. Like, they should be experimenting with these things. They should be pushing on the boundaries of the style of basketball that they've come to accept my concern as. Just like as someone watching the Celtics is, once we get past the mystery box quality of, okay, how are they going to play? What are they going to do? What does this version of the Celtics look like? Is there a ton of mystery? Is there a ton of reason to tune in? There's that initial intrigue, but other than that, like, what is it that I'm going to be coming back to the Celtics for? I'm not quite sure yet.
- [56:35]
A
I want to see what Hugo Gonzalez and Baylor Scheireman have. Sure. You know, that might, if anything, help next season. I think you and I probably rank Derek White as a top, you know, 1% player to appreciate everything he does on the floor. Yes, Jalen Brown. There's been a lot of Jalen Brown, like, oh, he's going to shoot so much. He's going to shoot too much. So I. I actually kind of like watching Jalen Brown play, and he plays with a violence and a physicality that I. I find particularly telegenic. And Missoula's. Missoula just. They were very. They also played very slow last year. I would. I think Without Tatum, they could be a little faster.
- [57:11]
B
Yeah.
- [57:12]
A
A little bit more sort of pass happy, cutting, dynamic. Not that they're better without Tatum.
- [57:16]
B
Obviously.
- [57:16]
A
They're not. Okay, well, that brings us quick, quick.
- [57:20]
B
Question about your formula as it relates to the Celtics. Does the. What will surely be an endless supply of Jason Tatum injury updates affect your Celtics watching experience at all? Does that figure into the formula, the fact that every other week, every third game, we're going to get some slight progress report on where Jason Tatum is?
- [57:42]
A
No, it doesn't.
- [57:43]
B
Nothing whatsoever.
- [57:44]
A
No, it doesn't affect their score. Doesn't affect their score. Second best court in the NBA still. We'll get to my number one favorite court later. And Brian. A lot of Brian Scalabrine. That's. That's usually good. Shout out, scal. Okay, number 18 as we round out getting to the end of the first half here. Part one. You had this team 10th, 10th. And I. Look, I, I had them lower than that obviously, because we're, we're compromising and putting them at 18. I get it. I get it. I think they're going to be super fun to watch. The Charlotte Hornets. Is Lamelo ball a real thing?
- [58:24]
B
He isn't. He is in my life, you know, like, is he.
- [58:27]
A
Is he a winning star player or is he a star numbers player? Is Tijan Salon anything beyond the hardest, working hardest, playing like he should play for the Heat? The guy, I mean, he's going after it. Every rebound he's going to have. We know Miles Bridges is going to dunk. We know the center rotation is going to be weird. They don't. They didn't foul at all last year. Hornets games are real crisp. They didn't foul and they didn't get to the line. Give me that. That's. You get points for that. You get points for Eric Collins. Yep, hum diddly d. But this is 10 feels high.
- [59:03]
B
The Lamelo factor for me is very high. Again, when you're watching so much basketball on so many teams, it's like, who is doing things that no one else is doing? And that is consistently the case with lamelo ball. Despite time and score and circumstance. Like, he will just try stuff. And frankly, it's not just him. Like even someone like Moussa Diabate. When is he not trying stuff? When is he not crashing into someone on the glass? When is he not throwing a pass that he probably shouldn't throw? And there's like enough of that humming throughout this roster that you have really high energy. Guys like you mentioned. Dijon Salon. I would also throw Colin Sexton into that mix, who's like a gunner for sure, but is a gunner going 130% every second he's on the floor in a way that I really admire. And so you have like a buzzing creativity. You have some stuff that works and some stuff that doesn't. You have guys who are playing really hard. You have a center rotation that is ultimately incredibly doomed. And I'm sure we'll give up who knows how many rebounds, frankly, in a way that hopefully will lead to some entertaining basketball. But at minimum, there's like enough interesting stuff going on here. And I don't think they're going to be good. I just think that they're going to be my cup of tea.
- [60:11]
A
I've already done my Lamelo thing multiple times. I stand by it. I mean, I'm Brandon Miller, big, big year for him. One of the most important young players in the league. I assume Bill has the Hornets number one in his personal rankings just because of Khan. Yeah, all seems very exciting. I'm glad you mentioned Sexton because he's been sort of lumped in with, with some justification in this whole. Like, like, does the league just not value undersized offensive offense? First defensive liability shooting guards anymore? Is that, is that type of player just being shunted into the. Okay, Cam Thomas, take the qualifying offer. Okay. You know, whoever, C.J. mcCollum, where are you going to end up after this? What's your appropriate salary level? And Colin Sexton is undersized to play the two. Defensively, he is a score first guard, hybrid guard, he might be best as a sixth man, but he plays hard on both ends of the floor all the time. He is not a defensive liability because he doesn't see the game on that end or he doesn't compete on that end. He fights with rebounds, he fights around screens. He's been one. He's just a fearless balls to the wall player that I've always enjoyed watching and I think he's going to help this team. As long as he's on the team, I think he's the kind of player they need. I'm excited for that.
- [61:28]
B
Yeah, I think there's something too about if the way Lamelo experiences the game is in all of these like spiraling loops and convoluted paths like he is taking. He is taking a route through navigating playmaking that other players don't. Colin Sexton is a straight fucking line all the time. And it's like there is a complimentary aspect to that that it Works in a yin yang way. I don't know if it's going to work in basketball terms. I don't know if it's going to be enough defense between them. We'll have to see kind of how it mets out. But I like the experiment of pairing Lamello with someone who is so direct at doing the things that Lamelo wants to be a little cuter about.
- [62:03]
A
You know what else I like?
- [62:05]
B
What's that?
- [62:05]
A
Turquoise. I like the mean looking hornet that looks like he's gonna sting you and he's turquoise. I like the pinstripes on the uniforms. Throwing it back. I like the purple. I like the honeycombs when they throw those on the court. I like that. All the art to date. First class Charlotte Hornets.
- [62:25]
B
Quick, quick. I guess biological question. I never really stopped to consider it, but do Hornets even have a honeycomb like structure to the homes that they built?
- [62:37]
A
I will have to google between parts one and two and get back to you because God knows, I don't know.
- [62:42]
B
I'm just. I hope someone has looked it up. I hope in. In the commitment to, as you alluded to, like the faded imprint on the shorts of some like, relevant figure in the city's history. Like, I hope someone has done their homework on what Hornets actually do.
- [62:56]
A
Look, I almost hope it's the opposite. I hope someone was like, you know what would be cool? Honeycombs. And they put the honeycombs on the court. And then six months later, someone in the research department was like, in this, like a stats guy was like, hey, you guys know that Hornets aren't bees. They don't have honeycombs. And everyone's like, you know what?
- [63:14]
B
Shut up.
- [63:15]
A
Shut up, Frank. They're cool. Okay? Number 17, the Indiana Pacers. A hard team to know what to do with. For league pass purposes and for projecting purposes, they are. Aaron Neesmith told me last week, people think we can't play as fast without Tyrese. We're going to play faster, we're going to press more, we're going to play harder. TJ McConnell's already hurt, but still, that was. That was interesting. Obi Toppin is good for like a couple breakaway 360s per year. Rick Carlisle is always going to try cool stuff. Love the uniforms, love the court, love. I love Pascal Siakam. His game every year gets a little more well rounded, a little more under control. Like, he used to be a little spastic.
- [64:00]
B
Sometimes he's just very spastic.
- [64:02]
A
He's just a really polished, smart, versatile player and does everything really well. He's become of a mature star NBA player that I really like to watch. He's Furfy. It's fun to say Furfy. Anyway, say that about Pascal.
- [64:19]
B
I think we will have opportunities to say Furfy more this season. But like Pascal, to me, one of the great player development stories in modern NBA history. Like him going from that kind of frenetic full court, like, we don't quite know what to do with this guy chaos agent into the stabilizing force of a team that went to the NBA Finals. And really the reason why you could look at this Pacers team and say, okay, they have a chance to be competitive despite losing their best player. They have a chance to be competitive despite completely turning over their center rotation to a new free agent and guys who were injured last season. Like, he, he is what holds the team together in a way that is so captivating and frankly that not a lot of stars can do. We talk all the time about like, oh, you can't, you know, pull. You can't mess with this star's minutes rotation because they're so particular about the routines and how they play. You can't move them to spot because they're actually, their kill spots are over here. Pascal Siakam doesn't really seem to care about any of that stuff. He will do whatever it is you need him to do from wherever it is you need him to do it with any combination of players on the floor. And I just have like unending admiration for players like that.
- [65:27]
A
Is Ben Matheran unleashed going to make this team more fun to watch or less fun to watch?
- [65:33]
B
More fun for us, probably a little less fun for Rick Carlisle at times, but. But it seems like Rick is making his peace with the fact that this team needs Ben Matheran in such a significant way.
- [65:43]
A
I'm going to lean to more watchable because I just have always kind of, I don't know, I like the force that he plays with even when it perhaps is misdirected or should be directed into passing. I just like that he plays with force and decisiveness. And I think, you know, they needed him at times in that playoff run. He would come out and he'd have a 20 point game, an 18 point half, whatever. And Rick is just a super creative coach. My favorite Rick, one of my favorite Rick Carlisle strategic wrinkles is when a team plays a zone against the Pacers, he'll recognize it immediately. And he does that thing where, you know, TJ or Tyrese will be dribbling the ball up and all of a Sudden, two Pacers will come and screen the two guys at the top of the zone. But normally people screen the outside of the zone so you go around the corner toward the sideline. They simultaneously zigzag in and screen inside the zone, sometimes in like an X pattern to give the middle drive to the ball handler. Just a great. It's his. I'm sure it has a name. It's a Rick Carlisle.
- [66:38]
B
But we're running on like, I don't know, 15 to 20 years of Rick Carlisle being the best anti zone coach in the league. Like, like he just has those wrinkles for every version of every team he's ever coached. And I will say one reason to be excited about this team is like what Rick was able to do with the post malice at the Palace Pacers was beyond explanation. And so the idea of him taking a team that has maybe not lost his thesis in Tyrese Halliburton, like I think Aaron E. Smith is right that they are still going to play fast, they are still going to play their style. It's just going to be a matter of like, what are the mechanisms that make that stuff so effective and do they have them? They may not have them in their star player, but they certainly are going to have them in terms of coaching.
- [67:18]
A
All right, last team in part one, number 16. If your team has not been mentioned, congratulations. You have made the top half of the league pass rankings. Prepare the banners now for your arenas. A team that we both had almost exactly in the same spot right here. I'm a little surprised. The Dallas Mavericks with the presumptive rookie of the year in Cooper Flag some star power and AD and Kyrie at some point in the season. Almost certainly.
- [67:46]
B
Yeah.
- [67:47]
A
Bunch of NBA characters like, hey, there's Klay Thompson hitting some threes today and PJ Washington's got his arms crossed and he's scowling and becoming a meme. And, and Daniel Gafford. I mean maybe the most sudden violent dunker in the NBA. He doesn't look like he's in a position to dunk and then he has broken the rim and humiliated some guy under the basket. Love Derek Lively. Couldn't be higher on Derek Lively as an all around player. Love the. I mean even if things go badly, that tension in your arena could, could pop up at any moment again. Remember when what's his name, Patrick Dumont walked in and they all booed him and he was like, are they booing me? Is that for me? Am I the one being booed? Can't imagine why it's you. I my guess is we, we both look at this team as like the size is not going to translate to a very attractive offense to watch. But, but tell me why they didn't crack the top half for you.
- [68:45]
B
It is that like I temperamentally speaking, I mean, I'm a little allergic to clutter, to be honest with you. You know, I'm very much like a tidy room is a tidy mind kind of person. And I'm looking at this offense and being like, man, this is a lot of like Anthony Davis doing a handoff at the elbow when there's absolutely no way for anyone to get to the rim whatsoever. Like, where are these possessions going to go? The good news is Cooper Flag is the ultimate silver lining to like everything that could possibly be happening for the Mavs. And so if he's playing point guard, if he's running full court, if he's, you know, connecting dots in some of these like stodgier half court possessions, all of that stuff is going to be great. And to be very clear, our version that has Kyrie Irving for the full season would be significantly higher than this. This version has d' Angelo Russell and this version has like, you know, whatever kind of makeshift ball handling they're going to be able to wring out of the rest of this roster, which I am not enthusiastic about.
- [69:38]
A
They have a three man booth most games. Mark Falwell on Play by Play, Derek Harper as an analyst and Jeff Skin Wade is sort of the a mix of comedy and extra analysis, I think.
- [69:52]
B
Absolutely.
- [69:52]
A
And I think the whole thing works.
- [69:55]
B
The rare three man booth that I think actually works.
- [69:57]
A
I think everyone goes in at the right right doses. Mark has a great feel for big moments on Play by Play and Luka gave him a lot.
- [70:05]
B
Yep.
- [70:05]
A
And Dirk gave him a lot of. And I do want to shout them out because they did not shy away last year from both acknowledging the criticism and the booing of Nico Harrison that they didn't pretend like, no, that's not happening. And themselves they did not shy away from their own shock and at times displeasure with the trade, which I felt stood out in an era where local broadcasts become I think more and more, if not homerish, then just sort of of kid gloves with the home team at times. And I thought they handled it exactly the way that if I were a fan of the team trying to digest what happened, it's exactly the way I would have wanted them to talk about it.
- [70:47]
B
Well, it felt honest and like that's the discrepancy you're talking about, it's how many broadcasts do you hear that actually feel honest, that actually feel like they're engaging with the team on all of its terms, good and bad. And I think that was one of those moments where if you don't do that, you risk really losing everybody. And I think having any voices associated with the team, especially ones as prominent as on the broadcast, acknowledging those realities is really important. But it was one of those things that got lost in the moment of, you know, the magnitude of the Luca trade and what it meant for both of these teams. If you are a person who just works for the Dallas Mavericks, you have been put in an impossible situation. If you're trying to sell tickets, if you are in charge of communications, if you're on the broadcast, you've invested the last. How long was Luca Maverick? 7. It's like seven years of your life in this guy's success and putting him forward and understanding what he meant to the future of the franchise. And now all of a sudden, that's gone. And so for those people alone, to say nothing about the legions of Mavs fans who were alienated by the trade, like, I'm happy for all of them that Cooper Flag is a part of this team, that there is a version of a path forward that makes sense. That is not just Anthony Davis, who is awesome, but, like, there is. There's something to believe and galvanize and something to actually, like, anchor the hope of the team, which is something that a lot of franchises don't have the luxury of after making a blunder that big.
- [72:07]
A
You know who else worked for the Dallas Mavericks last year? Who's that worked really hard? Naji Marshall. Just shout out Naji Marshall.
- [72:15]
B
I will watch Naji Marshall floaters until the day I die. Like, on my deathbed. Just play the real for me. Honestly. I'm going to go out strong.
- [72:24]
A
Swiss Army Knife. Whatever you need me to do. You need me to be an enforcer and scare people and foul them hard, I'll do that. Oh, everyone's hurt. I need to take 20 shots tonight.
- [72:33]
B
Cool.
- [72:33]
A
Like, I actually do it with a little bit more efficiency than you think I'm capable of. He's just sort of a. A high speed, diagonal slashing player. Yeah. Who plays hard and does the right things. And yet The Mavericks are 16th. All right, that's it for part one. I'm going to go change outfits to pretend like this is a different day. We're going to record this. The top 15. Refill my coffee. Rob Mahoney. Ringer group chat the whole deal. Thanks for indulging my silliness with league pass rankings. Thanks for doing your own. We got the top 15 coming up.
- [73:06]
B
Can't wait.
- [73:09]
A
That's it for part one. Thanks to Rob. Thanks to Jesse, Jonathan and Mike. We'll be back soon for part two. Numbers 15 to 1. Who claims the top spot this year? It's a new team. It's a new team. That's all I'm going to say. Thank you to for to everyone who listened who watches the Zach Lowe Show. We'll see you soon. Must be 21 or over in President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President D.C. kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York.
- [74:06]
B
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