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- [00:01]
Zach Lowe
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- [00:13]
Rob Mahoney
Check out these boots.
- [00:14]
Zach Lowe
They've got the best gifts. My holiday shopping hack join the Nordiclub. Get an extra 5% off every rack purchase with your Nordstrom credit card.
- [00:22]
Rob Mahoney
Plus buy it online and pick it.
- [00:24]
Zach Lowe
Up in store the same day for free.
- [00:26]
Rob Mahoney
Big gifts, big perks. That's why you rack. All right. Coming up on a new edition of the Zach Lowe Show. It's Part two League pass rankings with Rob Mahoney trooping through the top 15. If your team didn't make it into part one, which cut off with the Dallas Mavericks, that means it is in part two is one of the 15 most watchable teams in the league. There's going to be some surprises. A couple of teams that finish way higher than I thought. A couple of teams that Rob and I really disagreed on. The Atlanta Hawks being one of them. One of us had them really high.
- [00:55]
Zach Lowe
One of us.
- [00:56]
Rob Mahoney
One of us had them kind of in the middle. You might be surprised to see who had them. Where we have a new league pass rankings champion. We have some of the teams toward the top that you'd expect, but just different. Different systems produce different results. I love the league pass rankings. I couldn't be more excited for the season. I talk about the Tumani Kamara and Shaden Sharp contract extensions, give my take on the Blazers. I make my finals prediction again. Talk about Durant's extension to with the Rockets. So there's a lot of to cover here in part two of the league pass rankings. Please go back and listen to Part one if you haven't yet. NBA Season it's here. You're listening to the Zach Low show presented by FanDuel. The SMBA season Put the power of the sportsbook in your hands with fanduel's your way. Your way lets you create bets you can't find anywhere else. You can set your own lines or customize player props and you'll get new odds instantly. Plus with your way, you can even make head to head bets by position or player. Just download the FanDuel sportsbook app to play your way must be 21 or over in President select states and 18 or over in DC, Kentucky and Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org chatinc.
- [02:15]
Zach Lowe
Foreign.
- [02:22]
Rob Mahoney
Part 2 of the League pass rankings with Rob Mahoney. The great Rob Mahoney. Shortly after we recorded a couple pieces of news happened. Two more extensions came in under the wire. Dyson Daniels re ups with the Hawks. Four years, 100 million. Nice deal for the Hawks. Good deal for Dyson, but a nice deal for the Hawks. And Christian Brown? Basically the same deal, just one year longer. Five years, 125 million with the Denver Nuggets. Christian Brown is a winning player. Would I like him to shoot more threes? Sure. Shoot a little more accurately. Sure. But he fits with Jokic. He plays super hard, defends super hard, he runs the floor. He is a winner. He's tough. And these are, these are deals that, you know, they're huge numbers and I think people are starting to get over the sticker shock at the huge numbers because although they are huge in raw terms, they are only 13, 14, 15% of the cap. That's what you pay for, for like run of the mill starters. I mean, and both of these guys could easily exceed being run of the mill starters. And I think, you know, I talked about this with fred Katz about three weeks ago. We predicted and projected 12 of the key extension possibilities for the first round picks in the 2022 draft. The, the ones that hadn't been done. Chet's been done, Paolo's been done, JDub's been done, et cetera, et cetera. And we did pretty well. We'll get to that. But one of the things I said on that was I think there's a chance that there are a few more deals materialized than people might realize because a these players are watching what happened in restricted free agency this past summer when everybody got squeezed. Everything took forever. Kaminga took forever. Cam Thomas took the qualifying offer, Grimes took the qualifying offer. And yeah, there's more teams with cap room next summer. We've been over that. It was just Brooklyn this past summer. Some of those teams will use their caprimon extensions on trades in the interim. So there'll be a little bit less. But yeah, it's a friendlier landscape, but still restrictive free agency. It's unforgiving and it's not particularly fair to the players, but it's collectively bargained and it is what it is. And I also think because the cap has risen so much and these salaries are so high that there is a realism among a lot of agents that, yeah, Dyson Daniels might well outkick this deal. Four years, 100 million. Like I bet on this being a quote Better deal for the Hawks than it is for Dyson Daniels.
- [04:43]
Zach Lowe
That.
- [04:43]
Rob Mahoney
That's how good this dude is defensively. Yes. The three pointer, 34% on low volume. I'd like to see that come along a little bit more. I think this ecosystem with the Hawks with KP Porzingis at center providing some spacing, if KP can stay healthy, is going to be a little friendlier to Dyson Daniels and Jalen Johnson. I talk about that with Rob in the league pass rankings. Spoiler alert. The Hawks did very well. So yeah, but he's still kind of bullied. And Euro stepped and floated his way and ran the floor to 14 points a game. That's a huge jump. And, and I think that can go higher and higher. And with his defense, that's a good deal for him. And so you could see his agent being like, no, we're worth more than that. We're going to hold out, risk it in restricted free agency, blah blah blah. Some guys did that and I just think there's all. But, but there's the realization that it's a hundred million dollars. Same with Christian Brown. $125 million. The, the poster case for this that I always use is Devin Vassell who when he signed whatever his deal is, it was a big deal. There were some people around the league who are like, I don't know man, that guy can really shoot. He might have been able to hold out for Warren. And I was like, look, he's had so many injury issues, we don't know what he is on defense. We don't know if he brings much playmaking at all. I'm enticed by him. He was one of my most intriguing players for the season a couple years ago.
- [06:00]
Zach Lowe
But.
- [06:00]
Rob Mahoney
But it's 120 or whatever it was. Million dollars. It's just a huge amount of money. And like even I had, I had an agent tell me just a couple hours ago he was surprised that Shaden Sharp settled for a four year $90 million extension with the Blazers that Rob and I talk about in this part of the league pass rankings too. So I, I won't belabor it here. And, and my response was, look, I get it. Like I'm intrigued by Shaden Sharp again. I talk about it with Rob later. I've always been intrigued by Shaden Sharp, but RE and the Flashes have been there. Two point efficiency went way up last year, but through three years all he's kind of proven is that he produces some awesome highlights and some high scoring games late in the season when it doesn't matter and they're playing some tanking teams. Chauncey Billups didn't trust his defense, benched him because of it. The playmaking's been like, I'm high on him. If you're going to throw $90 million at him with that track record, I understand completely why he signs on the dotted line, even though it's actually less than I thought he would, quote, settle for. I understand why he did. I think it's a good deal for him and we'll see if it's a good deal for the Blazers. Couple of notes on this. Well, actually, you know what, let me just go through how I did on my 12 predictions. I was 10 out of 12, although I got the number of extensions exactly right. Going from top of the draft to the bottom. Keegan Murray I was a yes and it was a yes. He got extended, by the way, in a deal that looks a little bit less great. I mean, I like it fine for the Kings, but it came in above all of these other deals that have happened since, which is not great. Jaden Ivey I was a no. No deal. Ben Matheran? I was a no. No deal. Shaden Sharp I was a no. Yes deal. So I got that one wrong. Dyson Daniels? I was a yes. It was looking dicey. Came in under the wire was a yes. Jeremy Sohan? I was a no. No deal. Jaylen Duran this was the one I got wrong. I was a yes. I thought they come together on some common ground. They did not. No deal. Mark Williams? No. And it was a no. Tari Eason? I was in just a tentative no. And it was one that came down to the absolute wire. From what I had heard today, that's a no. And Christian Brown? I was a yes. Yes. Peyton Watson? I was a no. No. Nicole Jovic? I was A yes. Yes. 10 out of 12, not bad. I'll take it. Denver makes total sense that they would do Brown but not Watson because they are looking at potential second apron issues at the very least major into the first apron in 26, 27 and 27 28. Aaron Gordon's extension kicks in in the first of those two seasons. Jamal Murray and Jokic are still, obviously still here. It's just a ton of money and and we're talking for only eight guys under contract in 2728. So something. And that's not factoring in any future money for Bruce Brown or Tim Hardaway Jr. Any outside free agents. A Zeke Najee salary dump still seems like a mortal Lock. But even that, the math gets tight. If Peyton Watson comes back, it could be a second apron situation. The Hawks with Daniels Porzingis now becomes the really interesting one to look at and he is extension eligible. Trae Young, obviously extension eligible. Not a surprise that he did not get one going into the season because there's no deadline for Troy Young. He can get extended anytime throughout the season, as I believe Ken Porzingis because they're veterans. And I say Porzingis because I, I'm, I would bet on Trey Young being on the team in the next, you know, three, four seasons, one way or another, because I think the team's going to do well and they're good. I think they're going to offer him a fair offer either as an extension or in free agency. And it's just a good situation for Trey. It's a good situation for the Hawks. And so Porzingis, to me, is the interesting one because right now the Hawks have a decent amount of financial flexibility. A Congress on a good deal. Nikhil Alexander, Walker's on a good deal. Jalen Johnson 30 flat. Dyson Daniels, 25 ish per year. There are, they're, they're probably going to be around. Let me see where my numbers are around the tax. Well, no, they'll be under there under the tax for next season by quite a lot. But before Porzingis. Porzingis is an unrestricted free agent after this year. Bringing him back, adding in the draft picks, they could go over the tax. Probably not in any danger of the first apron, really. Certainly not the second. So a nice bit of cap management for the Hawks. But Porzingis, I said this last week, if you're a Hawks optimist, caca Porzingis isn't like a luxury the way he was in Boston. He's a must now. You're not going to get 82 games and 35 minutes a game out of him, but he's a must for 60 games, 28 minutes or 25 minutes, whatever, ready for the playoffs because they need his shooting at that particular position more than the Celtics did, even. And so it'll be interesting to see how well they play and how, how much they kind of go all in on this roster. But even going all in is, you know, a little over the tax. No big deal. These are all good deals. Was I surprised Eason didn't get done? No, I thought the order of operations was going to be Eason, then Durant. They did Durant first and they'll take Easton to restricted free agency. The Rockets are unafraid of restricted free agency. They've proven that over and over again. They're good negotiators. All in all, a pretty interesting set of negotiations for, for this group of guys. Brown and Daniels are winning players. I. They could probably each stand to do a little bit more on offense to really, really, really at least, maybe exceed these deals. But I think as they are now assuming minimal to no improvement on offense, and I think that's a wildly bad assumption considering how young Daniels is and just how good Christian Brown is. I think these deals are totally fine. This is just what you pay guys like this. Okay, we're going to go on to the second half of the League Pass rankings, the top 15. This is going to be fun. Thanks, everybody. All right, part two of the League Pass rankings, the top 15. The 15 most entertaining teams to watch, to listen to, to imbibe as basketball fans. Starting with. Now I'm going to just come right out of the bat. You're a hater on this team. You had them 22nd. I had them ninth. They net out to the 15th spot, the Detroit Pistons. Now, they are young, a little sloppy on offense, sure turnover prone. Foul everybody. So the game can kind of slow down. They were. They were also number one in dunks by a lot last season. I like dunks. Dunks good. Me like dunks. They got two guys and Isaiah Stewart and Ryan Holland who just might fight at any moment.
- [12:46]
Zach Lowe
Anyone, an opponent, someone sideline?
- [12:50]
Rob Mahoney
Who's to say you got Tom Gores? What? What is he wearing? Is he a little orange? Like, what's happening?
- [13:00]
Zach Lowe
I gotta say, you're locked in on owner sartorial watch in a way I wasn't expecting. I didn't know that figured into the formula.
- [13:06]
Rob Mahoney
Love the, love the name Pistons. Love the red and white general look of the team. Simple.
- [13:12]
Zach Lowe
Yep.
- [13:13]
Rob Mahoney
I don't know. I'm. And I'm excited for expectations. I'm excited for a Sar Thompson breakouts. Like, there's a lot. I had them ninth. What is it? What is holding you back?
- [13:25]
Zach Lowe
I enjoy the loose cannon factors you described, but offensively, not only are they kind of like stuck in the mud at times, I just find the execution of what they run to be pretty generic. Like, there isn't a lot that's outside the box. There isn't a lot that's all that inventive. It's just like, let's get a big playmaker in the middle of this mix. Let's give him enough shooting and let's let him cook and yeah, that leads to a lot of Jalen Duran dunks. That leads to some fairly reasonably productive offense, at least enough to hold up to what they're doing defensively. It's just like that. Not the most like scintillating thing I've ever seen. And so like the competence gets them here. And frankly, I think what gets them to this point in the ranking for me is like they get a big time zone bump. Because if you think about the other Eastern Conference, like not just Eastern Conference, but Eastern time zone teams, this is going to be much more pleasant to watch than the vast majority of them. And so they get here by those, by on those grounds alone, but by pure basketball. I don't love watching the Pistons play. I love, I love what they've been able to do and build, but I don't love watching them play.
- [14:29]
Rob Mahoney
They also, I believe are a 7 eastern tip, which is, it's like them and Charlotte and maybe a couple other teams dabble in it. It's, it's they, they get the half hour like, okay, they're the only thing on why not for clinging to the 7pm Tip.
- [14:44]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [14:45]
Rob Mahoney
Jaden Ivey being out is a little bit of a bummer for entertainment and for basketball. But I'll tell you, man, Marcus Sasser is one of those dudes who's like, oh, I haven't played in a week. Yeah, I'm ready to take a 26 footer off the dribble. I love Jalen Duran, his potential anyway and his style of play is interesting. Can he kind of bottle up the passing and the defense in, in the right ways? And I can never remember if it's George Blaha or George Blaha. I should have looked it up right before the podcast. Hall of Famer literally was what won the Kurt Gowdy Award a couple years ago. One of the all time great play by play voices in professional sports. Love listening to him. I just like this team. They have a little like Orlando has this too in their DNA of like, we're just gonna beat you up. Like, how about that? How do you like that? Like, deal with this all night and see how you respond to it. And you might respond by shoving, by getting annoyed, but you also might respond by cowering. A midstar physicality. I liked how they step up to the plate against the Knicks. I like it. I like everything but the fouls.
- [15:47]
Zach Lowe
The tenacity is great and like, I would love a healthy big minute. Can't take him off the floor. Turn for a Sar Thompson. Like that would be an amazing outcome for this season that would I think even significantly improve their watch ability. Right. Like if he's, if he's playing 33 minutes versus 22 minutes, all of a sudden I'm locked in in a totally different way.
- [16:07]
Rob Mahoney
I think he's, I think if, if there was one of two or three like core, we are sure of this. Things we learned in the playoff hot house, the sort of testing grounds of real NBA basketball. I think one of the things they learned was Cade plus Duran plus Asar is our core and is worth investigating even more. How can we make those three work together but just Cade pick and roll with Duran. Duran finds Asar cutting along the baseline. Something is there. And Asar Thompson is my pick for most improved player this year. Like that number 14. My favorite team name in the NBA. Unassailable art and yet another team in which we diverged dramatically in the exact flip way that we did with Detroit. And you had this team ninth. I had them 22nd. The Portland Trailblazers and the beautiful abstract pinwheel logo. One of the masterpieces of sports art. Gorgeous ninth Rob Mahoney.
- [17:11]
Zach Lowe
Tenacity, possibility. What do you have against young Hansen? I guess is my question, Zach, like what is it that's holding you back from blazing these trails with me?
- [17:21]
Rob Mahoney
I mean he's got a, like he's a rookie. He's a rookie. And maybe that's, maybe I'm under, maybe I'm underselling because even the lowlights of a adventurous passing rookie big man are going to be like, whoa, he tried that?
- [17:33]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [17:34]
Rob Mahoney
And it went where? Into the fifth row because nobody was or he hit, he just hit. Donovan clinging in the face on a high low because Chauncey's trying to see if the two of them could play together. I, you know, their bench is, is, is a little worrisome to me. Scoot's already injured. I, that would happen far enough that I took it into my, into my formula account. And the offense was a little vanilla last year.
- [17:57]
Zach Lowe
Oh yeah, to say the least.
- [18:00]
Rob Mahoney
But I, I'm still excited to, to watch the team and I, I love we're recording this on Monday afternoon. I love The Kamara extension four years 82 million. I love the shade and sharp. Extension four years 90 million. I, I, I'm high on particularly sharp kind of. I, I think he's going to be a very good offensive player. We'll see defensively, but these are deals that Kamara is going to take up between 11 and 12% of the cap and yeah, they could have done the cute thing where they declined the team option and make them a restricted free agent. Like sometimes you're just like, he's good, we like him. We're going to reward him. Now that's like what good teams do.
- [18:39]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [18:40]
Rob Mahoney
And Sharp is going to be 12, 13% of the cap, maybe 14% on the high end. That's completely worth it for two supplementary wing players who complement each other who have almost diametrically opposed strengths and weaknesses. If you want to throw out comps, it's. It's less than the DeAndre Hunter, Jaden McDaniels, Keegan Murray, Jabari Smith Jr. Deals. Your upside on all of those players may vary, but it's less. It's in line with like Andrew Nemhart, Herb Jones, Josh Hart. That's. Those are all fine comps. This is what you pay for. Players of this ilk, neither of them is really a 3 and D player. Camara is a D and sometimes 3 player. Sharpe is a 33 maybe and no D player. But I think he has the potential to be a very good offensive player.
- [19:26]
Zach Lowe
Right.
- [19:27]
Rob Mahoney
I'm betting on both of them. And Rob, they're just the kind of guys like they're the guys you want to have around the guy when you get the guy or they are the guys that you will eventually trade one of them maybe for the guy if you don't have the guy. Between Scoot and Shaden and Kamara and Abdia and Klingen and Young, if you ultimately have like a pre LeBron Lakers kind of team of like those are all good players. But what does it amount to? These are, these guys work to help you get the guy or they fit around the guy and they're pretty flexible with the cap going forward. They're not going to be like a big cap room team, maybe not even in the summer of 2028, depending on Scoot's number and Clingan's number and all this. But I just, I got no complaints about any of this and I'm excited to watch the team play.
- [20:15]
Zach Lowe
I think that void you described of like you have the guys who can surround the star but you don't have the star yet. I think for a, for a fan of that team can sometimes feel frustrating if the team idols in that place for too long. But all of this is still so new and has so much momentum coming off of last season in terms of the defense they built and the energy they played with. And I think in that void of not having the star, you get Stuff like Shaden Sharp getting to try a little bit more than he would under other circumstances. Like Deni Avdia becoming just like a different kind of secondary creator and playmaker.
- [20:48]
Rob Mahoney
Big potential number in 2829, which complicates their cap room but.
- [20:52]
Zach Lowe
But for sure worth it. Like, and there's like there's going to be a way in which these puzzle pieces may not all fit together in a way that then leads you to sign a guy in free agency. But as you alluded to, the trade possibilities are going to be there. These are enticing players throughout the league. And in terms of the present tense, yeah, Tony Kamara is not a true three and D player right now, but he's like a D plus plus plus player, right?
- [21:12]
Rob Mahoney
Like one of the 10 best defensive players in the NBA without a doubt.
- [21:16]
Zach Lowe
And one of the most versatile on the wing as well. And so, well, the options that he gives you in terms of moving things around, adding Jrue Holiday to that mix and the way you can now reposition and realign to basically be whatever kind of defense you need. Compounded with the fact that Shaden Sharpe, who look, I have my mis. I have like my hesitations in terms of buying in like wholeheartedly on his potential. But there's no question that the Flashes are there and there's no question that every season he comes out with one of the three like most exciting individual plays. Whether it's a dunk, whether honestly even some of his misses are as exciting and spectacular. Like he is out there trying things in a way that makes for perfect league pass basketball. And so a team that plays this hard, that is playing. I don't want to over index on the preseason, but playing the fastest basketball by a wide margin in the preseason, very appealing to me.
- [22:07]
Rob Mahoney
And Scoot is one of the most pivotal young players in the league. Had a, had a leap last season in the last 40 games. I can't wait until he comes back. I just want to on Kamara and Sharp reiterate some stuff I've said before. Like I, I said Kamar is a D and sometimes three guy and I can hear the Blazers fans Well, he shot 37.5% on threes last year. He did. And he took four and a half a game, which is good. He needs to take more, make like prove that that was real, make defenses, guard him a little bit more aggressively and then attack closeouts with a little more polish and like does. Those are all natural steps for a guy who is still, I believe, 22 years old.
- [22:49]
Zach Lowe
Yes.
- [22:49]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah. Sharp is. Oh no, wait. Sharp. Kamara is 25 years old. I was transposing Sharp's basketball reference page still, like, you know, inexperienced. Sharp is 22. The offense just kind of hasn't been there to the like the the highlights are amazing and then you look like 33 on threes. 31% on threes. He did shoot 56% on twos last year, which is very encouraging. And my favorite parts of his game are when and I've said this before and I and I don't mean to comp him and I but I also don't use the name lightly. There are times when in in the lane when the floor is in motion and he attacks the closeout or beats the first line of defense where when Shadyn realizes and remembers how big and strong he is, he kind of moves a little bit like Jayson Tatum in terms of just pace and knocking people sideways and getting where he needs to bottle that and we got something. But I like this team. It's going to be fun to watch in the center position. You mentioned Yang Han Sen right away is is the f. Is the starting 30 minute a game center of the next great Blazers team on this team or not? Obviously they hope it is between the the picks they've used on Clingan and and Yang. We'll see. Okay, number 13. We're getting into hallowed ground here. A little surprised this team came in so high. We did this before. Scottie Pippen Jr. His injury was announced. He's going to be out for quite a while. Another blow to a team. Look when, when they announced that Clark was hurt. Clark was having another surgery. Brandon Clark, Jackson was hurt, but recovering in a pretty timely fashion.
- [24:23]
Zach Lowe
Yep.
- [24:24]
Rob Mahoney
And Edie is going to be out for a bit. And now Morant has an ankle thing. But even just the big men, I said there's there's always a team that accidentally walks into a We're pretty good, but we ended up tanking this year and that actually ends up being good for us. It really could be these Memphis Grizzlies who nonetheless come in at 13th on these rankings, which feels high even when they're at full strength. But there is just a certain level of when Morant's playing and Jackson's playing and they're at home. And the sound, they have the best sound system, the best sound effects, the best music. Just listen for it. When an opponent misses a jump shot, they'll just hit a button and they'll. Nope. Nope. And Morant's flying around there's just, I like, I know if I tune in it's going to be a fun couple hours of basketball.
- [25:14]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, I think that will depend on job being healthy at this point. First and foremost, like, they're really testing my commitment to the idea that when you just have this basic core together, they win a ton of regular season games. Like they just reliably rock in that like 45 to 52 win range. Just what they do. That said, you ran through the injury report already? It is concerning. I'm glad Jaren is back already. Hopefully the jaw stuff doesn't linger too long though. Historically it kind of comes and goes throughout the season. Like what is the curse that is hovering over this team and how do we rectify it? Like what needs to be saged? What needs to be purified? Like, I'm open to any suggestions at this point.
- [25:56]
Rob Mahoney
It could be a rough year. I mean it could be a rough year that ends up being in the best interest of the team. Maybe they're, they're obviously not going to lean anywhere into that. One of the, one of the virtues of this team is they play super hard. They play to win. Their deep bench is full of hard playing. You know, here's John Konchar and Vince Williams and Gigi Jackson. Maybe they play hard. Scottie Pippen is one of the bench guys that plays hard. Ty Jerome is here. Sometimes I forget that. Goofy floaters and all. Like the most he goes from out of the game to talking shit at like a Russell Westbrook level of volume and ferocity faster than anyone in the.
- [26:33]
Zach Lowe
League, especially to be tied. Jerome, a guy who has had basically like one very productive NBA season and then a couple of flashes that like the real heads knew about but does not have the Russell Westbrook, Russell Westbrook pedigree to back that up necessarily.
- [26:51]
Rob Mahoney
They're also a strange team in a way that I find interesting on a nerd level. Like their whole weird offense last year that had no pick and rolls and then they kind of rebelled against that, changed the coach. But number one in pace, they were the, the number one or two. I can't remember if it was ever Chicago's number one or number two in pace. They do foul a lot, which is, you know, can slow the game down a little bit. But like the jerseys, like the art, like that they brought, they brought the throwbacks back with the bear on the court and the Bears got his claws around the basketball. I like that guy, love that guy. Just a pleasant, no nonsense experience.
- [27:23]
Zach Lowe
Well, I think too we may have Just glossed over too quickly. Like, the jaw part of that experience is unlike not just anything else in the league, but unlike anything we've seen in NBA history. Like the pure drama in the spirit of kind of the experimentation that the regular season is all about, of Ja Morant leaping into the air and then having what seems like an eternal hang time to figure out what to do with it, is just one of the best shows on hardwood anywhere. And so the fact, like, if he's healthy enough to do that, I'm. I'm pretty engaged in that experience as often as you want to give it to me.
- [27:58]
Rob Mahoney
And it has a little bit of that, like, death defying fear factor to it. Like, okay, the guy's walking the tightrope. Is he gonna fall and die or is he gonna make it? Because he takes a lot of contact in midair. I, you know, I miss peak jaw. And I always, I said this and I wrote it a lot. There was something about the way he played where he was a young star who brought teammates along with him in his style of play. I always said I liked the way on fast breaks where he would sometimes slow down and wait for guys to kind of come open in his wake and not just go headlong at the rim. He would cut off the ball in a way that helped the offense and helped his team. And I, it just seemed like he, he lifted everybody around him up, both spiritually and in basketball terms. And I just, I want that guy back. Speaking of guys who lift everybody around him around them up, number 12, the Milwaukee Bucks. You had them 16th, I had them 10th. Obviously they've got Giannis. Obviously they've got a lot of other guys around Giannis that your mileage may vary. They are under an enormous amount of pressure. Thanasis is around to, to talk trash to the opposing team, to fans, to everybody, and let him, let people know that he's there.
- [29:18]
Zach Lowe
So is Alex now as well, right? We're, we're, we've triangulated a lot of antetokounmpos.
- [29:24]
Rob Mahoney
Giannis is Giannis. He was number one in dunks as an individual player last year. Bobby Portis, just, just, you know, the eyes get wide, the intensity gets, gets into overdrive, and yet his game is kind of old school in a way. I like all like 14 foot fadeaways in the post. I don't know, are we just a little bored of like, okay, here comes Giannis in transition, and he's got shooters around him. And we think the team is, like, pretty good, but not Great.
- [29:52]
Zach Lowe
I think what I'm worried about is him getting a little bored about him looking around December, January, if you know things are just kind of middling, puddling along, like, how does Giannis feel about it? The Bucks, to me, Giannis aside, like, his play is often, always spectacular, but there's such a vibes based operation where, like, when something is a little bit off, you can really, really feel it in the product that they put on the floor. And so of course, Giannis is going to be one of the best basketball players in the world. But if the mood in the room isn't quite right, and I think there's a lot of reason to think that with the Bucks, it just might not be this season. How, how pleasant to watch, are they really going to be, you know, regardless of how you feel about Gary Trent Jr. AJ Green or whatever? Like, are they just going to be the kind of regular season team you want to tune in for?
- [30:42]
Rob Mahoney
You know what I don't want to tune in for?
- [30:44]
Zach Lowe
What's that?
- [30:45]
Rob Mahoney
Waiting a minute and 20 seconds for Giannis to shoot two free throws. Can we just enforce. How about we. How about this? How about we just enforce the rule? Like, you don't get to take 15 seconds after you get the ball to do a whole. Like, I shouldn't be able to go take a piss and come back and like, you're still at the free throw line. And then, then they get old. When they enforce the rule one time, everybody gets mad. They go, why don't they do it all the time? Yeah, why don't they do it all the time? It's a rule that applies to everybody else in the league. I watch these games. I'm like, my God, will you just hurry the hell up? I like mean Yanis, by the way.
- [31:20]
Zach Lowe
Yes.
- [31:21]
Rob Mahoney
I like when he rudely dunks in people's face. I like, I like what he did to shimmy over Malik Beasley.
- [31:26]
Zach Lowe
Hell, yes.
- [31:26]
Rob Mahoney
I liked when he knocked the ladder over in Philadelphia. Remember ladder gate, when he knocked it over. It's like, I want to shoot. I like, give me. I like that guy.
- [31:34]
Zach Lowe
And not just mean, but, like, look, Giannis is an incredible player by any definition. To me, my all time favorite surprise dunker, where you think he's like a little overextended on his steps and he's going to have to settle for the layup. Bam. We'll just like, dunk on somebody. You think there's one too many guys in his path? Bam. Doesn't matter. We'll dunk over anyone in front of him. Just when you think like, he couldn't get all the way under the rim for the reverse, bam. And so it's like the drama of every Giannis drive is then heightened as a result of that. For me, like, he finds little angles even sometimes. He's one of the few guys I've seen who will drive baseline like they're going reverse, but then come out in front of the rim instead to either reverse or just dunk it out. Right. I just appreciate the artistry in the space, you know, not enough creativity in just like trying to yam on people all the time because you're the biggest muscle on the floor. And we salute you. Giannis Antetokounmpo.
- [32:26]
Rob Mahoney
He's also like, has these superhero moments, not necessarily in, like at full blast, at full speed, where he obviously is like a superhuman person, but he'll be in the paint, have picked up his dribble, and there'll be like four guys just hovering over him and he's got both his feet on the floor flat footed, and you're like, well, he's. I mean, that doesn't look great. And then he'll just rise up and the four guys will almost topple over and he'll just dunk on all of them.
- [32:55]
Zach Lowe
This is what I'm talking about. It's insane.
- [32:58]
Rob Mahoney
All right, And I like Marcus Johnson, by the way, one of the great play by one of the great color analysts in the league. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by FanDuel. All right, basketball's back. That's right, we're here. And FanDuel's putting you in control right from tip off every day to start the season, you get to choose your reward. Play it safe, go for it. Feeling bold, that's your move. Whatever your style, you're in control. So what kind of better are you? However you play, FanDuel is giving you the power to choose your reward and own your game every single day to start the NBA season. Head to FanDuel.comlow to make your choice. Must be 21 or over in President select states or 18 and over in President DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in. Required rewards are non withdrawable. Restrictions apply including bonus and token expiration, leg requirements and max wager amount. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com gambling problem. Call 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut, number 11. We both had them right around Here you had them 12th, I had them 11th. It averaged out to 11th in the rankings, a little surprisingly low for a team that won 64 games with the number one offense in the league. They love to run, they love to shoot. The Cleveland Cavaliers, they've got the Evan Mobley, like, what, what, what is coming. Could be scary potential. Like more offensive verve and heft and meanness and just more, more, more. They've got Darius Garland, who's a wizard of fakes and ifaakes and hesitation dribbles and change of pace. They've got the Humongotron, one of the stupidest gimmicks in all of professional sports. Not a jumbotron, it's a humongotron. And if you don't call it the humongotron everything time, you will be fired. Broadcasters, they got Lonzo.
- [34:40]
Zach Lowe
They do.
- [34:40]
Rob Mahoney
And he looks good in the preseason. I know you are on Craig Porter Jr. Island with me. It's like, this guy might be good. I heard it on group chat. The people on group chat were like, What? Craig Porter Jr. I was like, yes. Someone else has noticed the herky jerky rhythm.
- [34:55]
Zach Lowe
The completely. I'm again, like, I just. He's one of those guys. I don't understand why he doesn't play more. Like, every glimpse I get of Craig Porter Jr. I'm excited about.
- [35:03]
Rob Mahoney
And we met. You know, one of the reasons why Memphis is appealing to me a couple spots below this is particularly when they're at home, they go on these runs that almost feel rapturous.
- [35:13]
Zach Lowe
Yes.
- [35:14]
Rob Mahoney
Just like there's. You just scored 10 points in 45 seconds. A couple of them were highlight plays. The crowd is going insane. The other team takes a timeout and you're like, that was like, whoa. That's all Cleveland is like, they just scored 15 points in a minute. What, what happened? Why are they so like 11th?
- [35:32]
Zach Lowe
I honestly don't know, other than this may be a team that we're taking for granted in that, like, very steady, sometimes bordering on predictable. They're so efficient and good at what they do kind of way. Like, I think the argument for is the world is a fucked up place, Zach, and sometimes you just want to turn on the TV and see something that works. And if you want to watch something that works, the Cleveland offense. Hums, clicks. Everyone knows exactly what they're doing.
- [35:57]
Rob Mahoney
And.
- [35:57]
Zach Lowe
And then on the edges of it, you get stuff like, you know, Evan Mobley being at this point in his development when 1. He can make one subtle change and all of a sudden he's averaging like 23, 24 a game. Like he's just, he's brimming with possibility and everything that he's doing right now. And so that combination probably should be enough to elevate them more. And yet I think some of it is from a regular season league pass standpoint. Like that's not where their burden of proof is. Right. Like we've, we've seen them be good, we've seen them be successful. And so there's going to be that kind of waiting game with them that I think drags them down in the rankings a little bit.
- [36:31]
Rob Mahoney
I'm excited for the Lonzo fit. You're exactly right about the wake us up in the playoffs sort of analysis of them which is fair. They've earned it.
- [36:42]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [36:42]
Rob Mahoney
And some of it is.
- [36:43]
Zach Lowe
I wish it wasn't that way but I just think that's where they are.
- [36:45]
Rob Mahoney
Lots of it has been injuries. In fairness. That's why I'm excited about the Lonzo. Fitz kind of a new ingredient. How is this going to work? Can you play with the other two guards? I think you can. Can adds some defense, some pace. Donovan Mitchell maybe a little underrated as a highlight machine.
- [37:02]
Zach Lowe
Agreed.
- [37:03]
Rob Mahoney
Takes contact in midair, spins around, flips in crazy shots. Hammer dunks like dunks that should be outside the purview in terms of their power and violence. For someone of his height he feels.
- [37:14]
Zach Lowe
Like the the Baron Davis era parent in that way for me where he. He will go up and be met by people and do the cockback finishes that again. I have no idea how he's able to pull off but like there's something about his aerial play that is so watchable.
- [37:29]
Rob Mahoney
Baron Davis a critical cavalier. I believe I forgot about that. The Clippers salary dumped onto the Cavs attaching the pick that became Kyrie Irving from Old Williams. I think if my memories are but yeah, don't love the broadcast and I'll just leave it there. I think it's getting a little worse but it's very fun team to watch. Kenny Atkinson coaches a nice offense and they're. They're about right where they should be. And honestly a lot of this is there are a lot of really good NBA teams. Almost every team is fun to watch. Like now we're entering the top 10. Who are you more excited or are you more excited to watch Cleveland than any of these other teams? You, Rob Mahoney, were certainly not more excited to watch Cleveland than you were. For our number 10 team. You had them second. I did in the entire NBA. I had them slightly below average, so they sit at 10th, the Atlanta Hawks.
- [38:19]
Zach Lowe
Let's fucking go.
- [38:21]
Rob Mahoney
Number two, Rob Mahoney. I will cede the floor to you.
- [38:25]
Zach Lowe
Look, I am psyched to see them in action. My anticipation is, frankly a little bit unreasonable, but I cannot help myself. I think if you. If you take out the true superstars of the league, the top 10 guys, let's put them in a separate bucket. Jalen Johnson might be my single favorite player to watch in the entire league. Like, the way he finds.
- [38:45]
Rob Mahoney
I love in this so much, just.
- [38:46]
Zach Lowe
Like the way he finds the groove and the flow in every single possession is captivating. Basketball to me, is exactly why I watch the sport and why, like, the thing that I love to watch the absolute most is that kind of like kinetic, dynamic, connected play. And he's so representative of that while also being a highlight machine himself, while also being a player on the rise who could be anything at any given moment. And so you have that. You have Trey Young, who can make a random Tuesday game feel like a fucking event out of absolutely nowhere. Dyson Daniels is the most electric crunch time defender in basketball. Will come up with plays at the ends of games that make absolutely no sense. He's kind of like the singular reason to me why coaches don't like running plays and don't like having actual action and crunch time. Because if Dyson Daniels is on the floor, he's going to muck it up and ruin everything about your timing. And I got to say, Zachary Rizachet really looks like he's on the verge of something like playing and finishing with so much more force already in this preseason in a way that makes me really, really excited. I love every element of this team. I do think they're going to be good, but more importantly than that, I just think they're going to be fun to watch all year.
- [39:56]
Rob Mahoney
I'm. I just. I'm. Look, you just said you cannot help yourself. That should be my personal slogan with the Atlanta Hawks. The Atlanta Hawks. I can't help myself. I'm too high on them every year. I'm super high on them. This year they were already talking about and starting to walk the walk of we want to run more of our offense through Jalen Johnson. That doesn't necessarily mean give him the ball, get out of the way. Trey Young, stand in the corner. That means inverted pick and rolls. Trae Young, Jalen Johnson pick and rolls. Where he gets to make plays as a screener, which, by the way, massively more effective with a Shooting center like Kristaps Porzingis to space the floor instead of Capella or Kongu clogging up the rim, which can work too because Jalen will hit those guys with lobs at the basket. Nikhil Alexander Walker, Luke Kennard, Fun bench guys. I cannot help myself. I'm very high on the Atlanta Hawks. I'm even high on Dominique Wilkins, the rare decorated former player who clearly hasn't bothered to do any research on the other team. And yet I'm massively entertained by everything he says about every other player on the other team. He'll sometimes be like, oh, they don't want that guy shooting that shot. And I'll be like, he takes like 10 threes a game and shoots 38%. And I was, I still. And he's got a great cackle. I love the whole Dominique experience. I love the Pac man logo. I love the colors. I just, they belong in the top 10. And you said something very interesting. I love the concept of a crunch time defender. And as soon as you said that about Dyson Daniels, I was like, he. There is crunch time defense. Is it, Is it his ability to get his hand on the ball? Is it his switchability? Because like, he's a better crunch time defender than Rudy Gobert. He's a better crunch time defender than, you know, a lot of people for almost anyone in the league. Is it, Is it that? Is it deflections? Is it switchability? But that's a cool concept. Crunch time defender. I like that.
- [41:57]
Zach Lowe
I think it's a lot of its instincts and timing and obviously his hands are amazing. But I think Dyson to me has one of the best internal balances of the risk reward stuff that in that moment, like you can't fuck up, right? Like you can't make the one gamble that leads to the layup in that moment. And yet he's so intuitive in terms of how the ball moves and what offenses are trying to do that you'll see him come up with crunch time steals or just straight up pick guys off the dribble in ways that other defenders just aren't doing. And so like that balance of understanding exactly how much leash he has. And that should only improve with, you know, Kristaps behind him in addition to these other defenders that they brought in. With Nikhil coming in on the wing, I'm sure he'll be on the floor in those huge defensive moments like he's going to have even more help. And that should be terrifying in the sense of if Dyson Daniels is already doing this with the roster that the Hawks had, what is he going to be capable of when he's given even more room to explore?
- [42:53]
Rob Mahoney
They were third in dunks last year. They played really fast. Trey brought into playing fast, making the hit head passes, particularly when Jalen Johnson was on the floor low key.
- [43:01]
Zach Lowe
I thought Trey was like a genuine good soldier last year. Like I thought he really leaned into how they were trying to play in a way that was very encouraging.
- [43:08]
Rob Mahoney
Well and if that continues, you know I keep saying this. My prediction for the finals is Oklahoma City over New York. And I told Steve Nash last week, I said look, we're going to like. Neither New York nor Cleveland has earned anything close to the right of overlooking any everybody else in the conference. It's just the two of us. And that one of these teams between Orlando and Atlanta being my most likely suspects is going to create a scare in the playoffs in the second round. At the very least, like, oh, this is two, two in game five. I think Atlanta, if that Trey buy in you're talking about continues if Reese Sachet hits a little bit higher than even your typical second year number one pick. I think Atlanta even has a higher ceiling of scare factor playoff equity than Orlando. But I trust Orlando more if that makes sense. So I don't know which I would actually, but I think Atlanta's ceiling is very high and you've got me unreasonably excited.
- [44:04]
Zach Lowe
One last note. The Hawks have played four preseason games. I have seen Quinn Snyder already in three different frames for his glasses. Like, how deep is the bag at this point?
- [44:14]
Rob Mahoney
Look, people don't. People are going to forget Quinn Snyder. Had a bag. Had a bag. Red should be. He's got to pick the one that is like when you get to the playoffs.
- [44:27]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [44:27]
Rob Mahoney
And everyone's got their lucky stuff. Pick one and it's got to be red. Number nine. The Minnesota Timberwolves top five watchable superstar in the league, no doubt has already provided. Anthony Edwards has some of the just most uncomfortably cruel dunks like Utah Watanabe never recovered, just never it. He never got over it. Watchability is there. Naz Reed, big jelly going coast to coast, lefty flip shots. Just a lot of artistry to his game. Jalen Clark's going to be locking people up. Terence Shannon Jr. Is ready.
- [45:08]
Zach Lowe
Yep.
- [45:09]
Rob Mahoney
There's the high comedy of like is anyone gonna pass Rudy the ball? Is he gonna just get another 3 second violation calling for the ball? Or have we gotten by that and just like, look, they're not the most artistic team. They're kind of like a battering ram of a team. But they get done. They're just rock solid. They're good. The broadcast is good. They're bringing back the Christmas tree throwback look this year, which I it's a little hit or miss for me, honestly, again, like a higher class Memphis in that I just know this is going to be, this two hours is going to be worth my time every single time.
- [45:43]
Zach Lowe
Yes, I do think they will have that two to three weeks swoon in the season where their offense just like kind of falls off kilter and some of that may be exacerbated or fixed by whatever happens at point guard this year. Like Mike Conley is clearly at a point in his career where he's doing a little bit less. I I'm eager to see what Rob Dillingham is capable of. He's definitely not there yet, but sometimes a guy like that just needs five good games and then all of a sudden something clicks into place for them. So I'm excited to see if he has that kind of year. But otherwise like they are just rock solid. And if you have a rock solid team with a star who is not just watchable Zach, but is like an all time personality already in the NBA, has 100th percentile athleticism and has that like undeniable drive to kill whoever is in front of them, you're just not going to find a lot on a Monday night that's going to be more satisfying and watchable than that. And so the Wolves are one of the safest bets in the league. They may not have quite the same like high highs of the teams that we're going to get to in terms of. I think it's like the cohesive offensive play for the Wolves isn't always there, but they're always competitive. They're always really good. They're going to be good yet again. And they have Ant. That takes you a long way.
- [46:55]
Rob Mahoney
And I want to see the post game he's talking about it again. I think it could be a huge weapon for him. Let's use the regular season to experiment and, and see what, what's there. Yeah, I mean Ant is just, come on, you can't take your eyes off the game. You just, you can't because at any moment he brings it on defense. He can go coast to coast. The dunks are incredible. You mentioned the two to three weeks swoon. Even like just a one game swoon. You will seldom see a good team look as bad as the Wolves will look when they just Have a random fourth quarter where they just go haywire completely and it's one brain fart after another. I'm thinking of one game. I think it was late in the season last year. They were up like 20 against the Bucks at home. I think it was the Bucks, and the Bucks went zone. If it wasn't the Bucs, forgive me, it was not a team went zone and the Wolves unraveled as if the Milwaukee Bucks had, in that moment, invented zone defense and that no one had ever seen. I mean, I'm talking about, like, just pass to the next guy. Yeah, but throw it over their head or throw it right to the other team. You don't see good teams melt down the way the Wolves melt down. When they're melting down, it's rare because they're very good. But even that is like, hey, you.
- [48:11]
Zach Lowe
Never know what you're going to see completely. I'm not opposed to that. I'm not opposed to seeing that in the same way that you, you know, a car crash kind of appeal. But those are fewer and further between for them. Like, they are competent enough. And I think maybe one of the only things holding them back from being higher in these rankings, if they're going to be that good and they're also going to have that kind of appeal, is like, there isn't the big shakeup factor that they had last season in terms of swapping out Kat for Julius Randle. Like, there's no radical reimagining of what they're doing. They are a very good team that has some young guys who need to prove themselves and. And that alone is going to be really good basketball and I think is going to be watchable all year, especially with Ant, but, you know, may not be top five material for the league pass rankings.
- [48:55]
Rob Mahoney
We're getting into some hallowed ground now. Number eight feels high for a team whose offense trended a little stodgy and yet feels just right to me. There's just something about this New York Knicks team that I like and there's much about it to be super interested in. Starting with their style of play, their revamped bench, are they really going to lean in more to this passing movement, speed, offensive style? Do they trust it late in games? How is it going to translate to the playoffs? Mitchell Robinson, starting with Cat. How does that work? Full time, full blast? I love all that. The broadcast is unassailable. Breen Clyde, Madison Square Garden with the simple blue court. Yeah, I'm just. Again, this was a relatively slow at times, except for When Josh Hart was going bananas team a team that was frustrating in that it, you know, why did they trade for Mikhail Bridges is worse. Where's Cat? Why is Cat standing around? But I'm so, I'm excited to see how they address those issues. I think there are ways to address them and I just, there's just something. I picked them to make the finals. There's something about this team that I just really like there.
- [50:11]
Zach Lowe
I mean, they were already excellent and I think shoring up some of the depth is going to go a long way just in terms of having a more viable rotation regular season and playoffs both. Plus the Mike Brown honeymoon is like such a real thing. Like, we saw the impact that he had on the Kings. We saw how he diversified their offense and made it interesting. And if he can do one ounce of what he did for like the Sabonis Fox interaction in the handoff game to get Kat and Jalen Brunson, for example, working together more directly on the floor, that alone is going to be super exciting. But I think a lot of it for me is Brunson and the idea of repurposing him from the Tom Thibodeau, like, run everything to get you the ball and then you have to do everything offense into something more balanced and more dynamic and more surprising. And I don't know what this says about me, but like, my version of seeing a Ben Simmons clip of him shooting threes in an empty gym during the summer and getting irrationally excited is me seeing one clip from Nick's practice of them moving the ball and Jalen Brunson running off of it in a way that isn't just like an Iverson cut to get it. And all of a sudden I am scintillated. I'm. I'm on pins and needles as far as what this team is going to look like in the regular season. And I say that as much about Brunson as I do, like, the downstream effects of what that means. Like, is Mikhail Bridges more consistently involved if the ball is moving like that? Are you getting the like, March stretch where OG Anunoby was all of a sudden scoring like 25 a game when Brunson is out? Are you getting that guy if you are putting the ball in his hands in different positions? Like, I can't wait to see what this team is going to be capable of when they lean into and accept the fact that they just can't get any further playing the way that they were playing.
- [51:51]
Rob Mahoney
Cosign everything. And you, you said Iverson cut Which is. Which is funny eventually, because I thought I was talking about this with Steve last. Steve Nash last week. Like, Jalen Brunson moved around a lot, a ton. But. But it was all like just sort of station to station, going through the paces, jogging through the script. And I want more speed and more randomness. I think he'll buy into that. I'm a little worried that we're going to see some hack a Mitch, but I like hack. It's good theater to me in the right doses. I like the theater of it. Have you seen there? Look again. There are just too many jerseys and they all have different names that I can never keep track of. Why? Is this the statement edition? This is the city edition. Yeah. Have you seen the Knicks statement edition jersey? No.
- [52:32]
Zach Lowe
Can you describe it for me?
- [52:34]
Rob Mahoney
Yes. They are like a charcoal black. It's the rare black jersey that really works.
- [52:41]
Zach Lowe
Okay.
- [52:41]
Rob Mahoney
It's like a charcoal black with, you know, New York and orange on the. On the front. But what really makes it is, you know, when they light up Madison Square Garden on the outside and they have all the columns in red, in blue and orange sort of cascading around, They've mimicked that effect in beams of light down the side of the jerseys, which just explodes off the black. Evokes the most iconic arena in sports, whatever. The world's most famous arena. It's the first great Knicks jersey other than their standard ones. The first new great Knicks jersey in ages and ages. And they get plus points for that as well.
- [53:18]
Zach Lowe
I'm pulling it up right now. I do like this. That trim. The trim is something special. I know, I know we were bagging the detail work on some of the other jerseys that are being put out, but this one I can certainly appreciate.
- [53:28]
Rob Mahoney
But you know what the difference is? I can see that.
- [53:30]
Zach Lowe
Yes.
- [53:30]
Rob Mahoney
Like, I can see it. You know?
- [53:31]
Zach Lowe
You know what it is?
- [53:34]
Rob Mahoney
Shout out yabu dunking on LeBron in the Olympics. One of the all time great. Holy. I know moments in the history of not. Not quite Vince Cart, not quite the dunk de la mortis dunk of all.
- [53:47]
Zach Lowe
Time, but who will Yabu dunk on this season? Like, who is. He's gonna get somebody. Who do you think he'll get?
- [53:54]
Rob Mahoney
Who would be the most, like, preposterous person to actually. It would be like, Giannis or something. It can't be like a rim protecting center because those guys eat dunks every now and then. It can't be someone like a star who's just kind of going to be in the Way like Luka or somebody like that. It's got to be something in between which is what made the LeBron the dunk on LeBron so special. It's hard to dunk on a 6, 8 super athlete who's actually trying to stop you from dunking.
- [54:25]
Zach Lowe
I love that pick. I think Giannis is a great one. Plus you can see like the, the Bucks really need this game against like the Eastern Conference leading Knicks and it's really important to them and Giannis is doing everything including getting dunked on by Yabu.
- [54:38]
Rob Mahoney
Similar, I mean like similar body type that would be fun for anyone to dunk on. But yeah, we said. I just wanted. We did not miss mention him in the Minnesota section. We were remiss. Not to mention Jaden McDaniels who kind of quietly 15 a game in the playoffs when you take another level offensively. Okay, enough. Knicks number seven. Boy, did we diverge on this one. You had them 14th. I had them tied for first. First the Los Angeles Lakers and let me defend myself because I can hear what you're saying. Well, what's exciting about this team, LeBron's old Luka is going to walk it up and play Luca ball and yeah, ok. Rim running center with Ayton. Is he going to run? Is he going to rim? Is he going to rim run? Is he going to half run? You know, Austin Reeves over here on the side taking over the offense. Are we really excited about Rui and Marcus Smart and Jake Laravius, you know, sort of an NBA nerd guy. Cool. Gabe Vincent's around. Vando Van does always better in theory than he is in practice. I get it. I get it. Yep, they kill the zeitgeist category in my formula. The formula handed down from the basketball gods because they're the Lakers. They have the best court in the NBA. I just could look at it all day long. Their uniforms, other than the stupid black ones with the triangular Los Angeles Lakers which should be lit on fire, are amazing. And I am legitimately really interested once LeBron gets back from sciatica to see over a full season. Not introducing something like Luka in the middle of a season. Yeah, how do all these pieces fit together? Is LeBron really willing to change his style of play a little bit to the blend with Luka. Is Luka willing to change his style? How does Reaves fit in as a. Is Ayton going to drive everyone insane or is he going to execute well? I'm legitimately interested as a basketball exercise in how this team works.
- [56:31]
Zach Lowe
I think LeBron getting hurt when he did took some of the wind out of the sails for me. And I say that for two reasons. One, I'm 100% with you on, like the buy in and the process of coming into a season, knowing you are a Luka Doncic team, what that does for the style of offense you run, clearly what it did in terms of the kinds of players you want to bring in, all that stuff is so important. I also thought it was important for LeBron, like, to have him ease into that process through a full training camp, through a full preseason, have the opportunity to kind of accept where he is in his career, what this team is going to be and what it's going to be like playing with Luka, which certainly had its high points during their time together last season. But, like, clearly it was a work in progress as well. And like, we lost that and now it's kind of LeBron, when is he going to return? What is it that he's after? You know, the Dave McMeadow report about him, like, you know, kind of gauging what he wants to do going forward. It's like, that's not what I'm particularly interested in. I wanted to see the functional version of this team and the minutes that are going to be happening on the floor in the meantime without luka and without LeBron, I'm not particularly thrilled about. I'm sure Austin Reaves is going to put up some incredible numbers during those stretches, but you take LeBron out of this rotation and it just feels awfully flimsy all of a sudden. Like, you're just like. So much depends on Rui Hachimura plugging a hole that I just get a little uncomfortable.
- [57:55]
Rob Mahoney
I'm glad you're here as a counterweight because I am just a vessel for what the formula spits out. And the formula spit the Lakers out tied at the top of the rankings. Yeah, I felt okay with it. I didn't, I didn't. I don't. But I don't feel like they deserve the number one spot. Like, this is the most excited I am to watch a basketball game. Just does not mesh. Seventh is a very nice place for them because I'm. I am excited. Yep. They're not a bottom 15 excitement team for me. Who knows, maybe Dalton Connect will forget a few plays and J.J. redick will storm onto the court screaming at him. Marcus Smart, one of the most audacious floppers in the history of basketball. Yeah, audacious enough to flop and then be like, well, who me? I didn't just dive out of nowhere. I, like Bron, will have these moments every once in a while where some journeyman big guy will switch onto him and, like, swipe at the ball and pressure him.
- [58:58]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [58:59]
Rob Mahoney
And LeBron will be like, dude, really? All right, I'm 40 going on 41. Let me back you out. And I'm going to dribble through my legs. I'm going to show you. Like, you're gonna come at me, journeyman biggie man. Like, I don't. I even have a name in mind. You're gonna come at me like that. I'm gonna try to embarrass you now. I didn't want to do this.
- [59:16]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [59:17]
Rob Mahoney
I'm too old for this shit, frankly. But you made me do it.
- [59:19]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, you made me do it. Like, they do force his hand at times. Like, look, the experience of watching LeBron is still awesome. And. And to be very clear, the experience of watching Luka Doncic, and I understand his style is in everyone's cup of tea. Not every Luka game is an absolute blast. He is a sensational creator to a degree, where for me, he's like, first team, all rewind. Right? Like, I'm watching a game. He will do something that's not just like, oh, that's an awesome highlight. It's. I don't know what the hell he just did. I don't know where that pass went. I don't know how he threaded it. I got to run it back just to see what happened. And so, from that perspective, any Luka team is going to be buoyed to a certain point in these rankings, but he's going to have to do an awful lot with this group, even though, like. Even though it is built around him, especially because it is built around him, and in particular, because LeBron isn't going to be there for the start of it.
- [60:07]
Rob Mahoney
The thing about Luka, in traffic with a live dribble, change in pace, slowing down, eyes all around. He seems to know what all the defenders on the floor are going to do before they even know what they're going to do. And that's not only, like, anticipating how he can manipulate them with eye fakes or shoulder fakes. Obviously, he's a genius at that. He almost seems to see them leaning the wrong way, right when they start leaning that way, it's like. Almost like he expects them to when they don't have any real reason to. And the ball's out. The ball. The ball's out to the corner shooter. It's it's uncanny. I feel good about The Lakers at 7. At 6. We both had this team flat at 6. We agreed completely. The Houston Rockets who just extended Kevin Durant on a 2 year $90 million deal don't have a lot of notes on that. It's much less than he could have made. 2 120. I think he knew that he's going in, that he was going to make the max. Gives them space to maybe extend Tari Eason. We're coming up on the deadline as we record this gives them some apron flexibility going forward. I always have to remind myself that they could have two lottery picks in the 2027 draft between Phoenix's pick and Brooklyn swap rights.
- [61:18]
Zach Lowe
Crazy.
- [61:18]
Rob Mahoney
That's a little bit scary. No notes on the Durant extension. It's a great deal for everybody involved. Number six feels, feels, I mean feels low honestly for how excited I am to watch a team that was not even that great as a half court offense. Give me all of Amen Thompson. Give me all of Reed Shepherd. Give me the whole experience. Give me all of Steven Adams and Alper and Shen goon together rebounding 80 million percent of opponent misses and just daring teams like okay, like what are you going to do? What are you going to do?
- [61:51]
Zach Lowe
I would watch a dedicated cam of just Stephen Adams mashing people under the rim all game. Like every second he's on the floor.
- [61:58]
Rob Mahoney
Oh, we're too big, we're too slow. How about we go to this weird zone defense against you guys and like you can try to exploit it but we're going to get every single rebound and it's going to really hurt you. You're going to be bruised. Deal with it. I don't even think the Rockets coaches expected this to be a thing when they went to it last year. Now it's among the things for which I am most excited. Sengun and Durant together is going to be fun. I like the sheer size they can play with. I'm still on team Jabari Smith Jr. Is good. Eason I love I just six feels too low.
- [62:28]
Zach Lowe
I think it would they would be higher if Fred hadn't gotten hurt like the way he completed the lineup and I think would have ironed out some of just like the basic execution stuff on offense would have lifted them even higher than this. But as it stands, yeah, they're going to have some half court frustrations even still. But they brought in one of the all time best shot creators in the half court and again a guy who's just like so silky smooth to watch in KD that I think will resolve some of the most frustrating parts of what they were doing last season. And you're going to have the drama baked in of the possessions that aren't quite going anywhere. And then Katie has five seconds to do something with it. That's super watchable basketball. But to me, it's so much about like, everything you said about Amen about the double big, which is like this, all this size and frenetic energy and these like rugby type lineups that they throw out there. Like, watching the Rockets will make you feel like you're watching a different sport. It will make you feel like you are bending the possibilities of what is happening out there. When Tari Eason is out there like bodying dudes full court, when Ahmed is like slipping between dimensions to do everything that he does, like, it's not. It goes beyond the unexpected and the surprising. Like, they are just doing things that are fundamentally different than any other team.
- [63:40]
Rob Mahoney
And.
- [63:40]
Zach Lowe
And now they have Kevin fucking Durant.
- [63:44]
Rob Mahoney
Their coach almost wanted to fight LeBron during a game. I mean, IMEI wants all of it, all the smoke. What do you think about the space astronaut court that they're going back to this year?
- [63:58]
Zach Lowe
A little too cute for me. I don't think you. I don't think you. Again, like, there are some things that were left in the past for a reason. And there's clearly an era that we are mining like late 90s into early 2000s or in this, I guess this case maybe predates it a little bit. That where it's like every team is going back to. I just don't think it has to be that complicated. You're the Houston Rockets. You have a lot of iconography and like symbols that you can play with. It doesn't have to be Moon man.
- [64:24]
Rob Mahoney
I don't love the Moon Man. I do love the subtle nod to Five Slam a jama, which is the greatest nickname for a team or an individual in the history of sports, in my opinion. It's perfect in every way. Five Slam a jama and Jeff Green twice. Two. We're going to get two Uncle Jeff facials this year. Just two out of nowhere. What he just yammed on that dude at age a million where it's two and we're going to love every second of it.
- [64:54]
Zach Lowe
He will be doing that until the day he dies. Like, he's just. He's going to jump up off a hospital bed and dunk on whatever poor nurse happens to be in the vicinity. It's going to be tough, but we're also going to be cheering it.
- [65:06]
Rob Mahoney
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- [65:18]
Zach Lowe
It's always terrible.
- [65:19]
Rob Mahoney
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- [65:37]
Zach Lowe
When did making plans get this complicated?
- [65:40]
Rob Mahoney
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- [66:00]
Zach Lowe
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- [66:34]
Rob Mahoney
Number 4 Number 5 rather sorry, Number 5 boy oh boy. Number 5. Number 5 for the 27th ranked offense.
- [66:45]
Zach Lowe
In the NBA last year, but not this year.
- [66:48]
Rob Mahoney
The Orlando Magic have ascended this high based on what Rob Mahoney for me.
- [66:57]
Zach Lowe
Personally, part of the reason I have them ranked so high is like I think this is the year Paolo puts it together in a monstrous kind of way. Like a little more space, a little more determination to get to the rim, a little more focus and then one of like the most imposing players in the league already, his game could just completely explode. And like I think the Desmond Bain edition. Plus just like hopefully, hopefully, hopefully being healthier all around will get him to that point. Like I am counting on a PALO jump and that's why I have them this high.
- [67:30]
Rob Mahoney
I really like this team I had. I took the over at fifty and a half on Bill's podcast. I was the only one that took the over. Maybe Joe did I can't remember. I think I was alone, though. I like them that much. Despite that their games are foul fests.
- [67:44]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [67:45]
Rob Mahoney
On both ends of the floor. They get to the line a lot and foul a lot. Which is, you know, the price you pay for being a physical, nasty defense, which I just generally like that they lean all the way into like, all right, we're beat you up for 48 minutes. How do you feel about that on the second night of a back to back.
- [67:59]
Zach Lowe
They're also too, like, they're not just one of these defenses that is grinding teams to dust, although they do grind teams to dust. Like over the course of it, they really wear you out just from in terms of a league pass appeal standpoint. Like Jalen Suggs is maybe the most watchable defender in the league for me. Like, he is. You cannot take your eyes off him when he's on the court. And so that there's always something active and engaged and dynamic happening in addition to this, like slow burn attrition of what the magic do to you. That's what makes them this high. Like, puts them this high. Obviously they're going to be good. They're going to be one of the best teams in the Eastern Conference. But their defense can be super watchable too. Not just in a strangle the life out of you kind of way.
- [68:39]
Rob Mahoney
He is a more physical Deion Sanders away from the ball. He's just a cornerback hunting interceptions, except he's hitting you and elbowing you along the way. And on the ball, like tip off happens. All right, we're starting the game. It's Wednesday night. Oh, my God. Jalen size is in my jersey. Annoying the out of me immediately. And it really does set the tone for. Okay, this is going to be a very unpleasant experience for you. Are you, are you up for that? Because if you're not, we're going to beat you by 20 tonight. Bain is transformational. Couldn't be higher on Paolo and Franz. Could be higher on Franz. The hitch scares me a little bit, but I'm super high on Paolo. And just shout out David Steele and Jeff Turner. I say it every year. Orlando has been a little bit of a forgotten place in the NBA ecosystem until now. They are first class, first rate as broadcasters. The art. They've already released their all three new jerseys this year. Their new court, the black, blue, white, silver stars. Stars trailing the basketball shooting through the sky is A plus plus.
- [69:39]
Zach Lowe
Let me, let me ask you about the A plus plus. I mean, love the pinstripes, love the color Scheme Love the general, like, look, the typeface on these jerseys.
- [69:49]
Rob Mahoney
I like them. I like it.
- [69:51]
Zach Lowe
It's a little AAU to me in a way that I'm like, is this really, is this really the font choice you want? But admittedly picking knits on that, I.
- [70:00]
Rob Mahoney
Mean it's a little bit of a throwback look for them. I like the star in place of the A. Orlando and Magic. Sometimes I think the, the black one, people can look it up. It's got a. It's got like a blue. The top of it is blue and then it goes into black and pinstripes. I think that's cool. And I can't, I can't spoil anything. The City Edition jerseys are, are on par or better than these ones. The whole art top to bottom is going to be as good as it gets in the NBA. I'm. I love the Magic. I think they're going to be a lot of fun.
- [70:31]
Zach Lowe
Are the City Edition just full, like full stuff on the front or what's going on?
- [70:35]
Rob Mahoney
Stuff is not involved stuff. The Magic Dragon, also under. Maybe the most underrated mascot in all of sports. I'm going to extend it into baseball, hockey. I don't know any other mascots really besides the most famous ones, but I'm just going to say it. And the pressure's on. The pressure's on. How do they adapt offensively? Is Jamal Mosley and his staff, are they up for like. Okay, now we have to construct something, a team that is more than we will beat you up into 46 wins. We have higher ambitions than that. Number four. This team has won the league pass rankings multiple times. They are probably the all time league pass rankings champions and they sit fourth. They were tied for first in my rankings with the Lakers. 11th in yours, the Golden State Warriors.
- [71:19]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [71:22]
Rob Mahoney
I felt the same way about them as I did about the Lakers. Feels high. But they're yet. They're old. We've seen parts of this movie a lot of times now. I still love the movie. I love Jimmy Butler as a new character introduced toward the end of the show who fits right into the ethos. Ditto for Al Horford. Draymond Green is still here. And you'd want to talk about something between unintentional comedy category and just full on drama. Like you never know. You never know what limb is going to be flying where, towards who and what drama could take place. And I will say it. Until he's retired, there is nothing like Steph Curry on a heater.
- [71:59]
Zach Lowe
No.
- [72:00]
Rob Mahoney
In all of sports it's the best show in the NBA. Still, it might not be a 48 minute show like Jokic, who's obviously coming up. We haven't named them yet, but for three, four, five minutes, it's the most exciting thing in sports. And I do think this team is, is going to be very good. They have good depth, they have interesting depth pieces. There's just. And they play a style that flows from their one of a kind star that is unlike anything else in the NBA. And over 82 games and a million nights, I am appreciative of. Okay, this game's going to look different than the other ones I watched this week.
- [72:32]
Zach Lowe
Yes. And it is cohesive, as you said. Like, with the personality and the play of that star, like, everything is flowing outward to the roster in a way that makes sense. And like history tells us anytime this team has enough healthy players who can actually play this style, they are one of the greatest shows on earth. Like, it's just what they are. Like, if you are interested in ball movement at all, and why wouldn't you be? If you like watching someone like Steph dance himself open? And if you don't, what's wrong with you? This was a team that I'm glad they ended up here because once I cast my ballot, I had some reservations that I put them a little too low. And so I'm happy for the correction. I am happy to honor Steph Curry with a spot in the top five here. He certainly deserves it. And like, this is a, this is a team that, like, I mean, they just traded for Jimmy Butler and won damn near every game in the regular season. So we're going to see how they pace themselves through 82. But I love the Al Horford edition. I always love DE Anthony Melton. Like, they just have so many pieces that make sense together, to say nothing of, you know, the personalities and the quotes and like, the Buddy Healed kind of like Buddy cop dynamic he has brewing with Jimmy. There's just like enough happening here around the edges to liven up the show that we already all know and love.
- [73:44]
Rob Mahoney
Everybody loves Buddy Healed. Just everybody, every stop. Everybody loves him. You didn't even mention Kaminga. And the whole like, is this going to be a Nasser? Is this going to work? He's going to check out. Are they going to trade him at the first opportunity once he becomes tradable? Or is he just going to unleash some hellacious power dunks three or four times a night? Is he going to buy in on defense the way they've Always wanted him to and he never quite has, at least consistently. There's also the, the one downside of their pass, cut motion, happy style of play is the crazy turnovers and the moment where three or four times a season, Steve Kerr will just reach his breaking point and smash a clipboard in half because just, I can't believe you guys threw the ball out of bounds again. I just, I can't believe it. And I like the jerseys. I, I, you know, the announcers are homerish for my taste and take that, take that for what it's worth. But I just, I love to watch this team and I'm, they're going to be in the top five for me as long as Steph is playing in the NBA.
- [74:48]
Zach Lowe
The other part about those turnovers too, not only do they, you know, drive Steve Kerr crazy and into, you know, a slow descent into coaching insanity at times, but I feel like that element of how they play, not just like, you know, the historic like, oh, they go on these huge runs part, but especially when they're on the road, the warriors are so good at killing crowd momentum or in those rashes of turnovers, building it. And so it's like, it always feels like the, the energy in the building is coming or going. Like there is something that everyone is trying to grab a hold of that they can't quite figure out. And that is great regular season basketball, to say the least.
- [75:23]
Rob Mahoney
To that point. Maybe the ultimate tribute to Steph Curry is that he has made even casual once in a while, fans pay attention to off ball movement. Yes, because you will hear on the road the shrieking begin. Low volume Only some people have noticed it when he gives up the ball on the baseline and his defender turns to look at the ball and he's gone. The shrieking now begins as he's going around the pin and screen from the corner and it just escalates to the, when he has the ball, it's a full on, some pleasure, some pain, some fear noise.
- [76:03]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [76:03]
Rob Mahoney
That only Steph Curry inspires in opposing crowds.
- [76:06]
Zach Lowe
And we're like, we're still there, right? Like we are not at a point with Steph where he's in this like you know, slow descent where you know, he's shifting into a different stage of his career. Like he is still that guy. Like maybe not in the, like breakdown off the dribble, one on one individual creation in the way that he was four or five, six years ago, but that particular threat and that particular psychological effect on anyone within a 5 mile radius radius, nothing Else like it in basketball.
- [76:33]
Rob Mahoney
The top three feels like we have the right top three. Although you had the Hawks in your top three, which.
- [76:41]
Zach Lowe
That was right. That was correct.
- [76:43]
Rob Mahoney
You cannot help yourself. I. I relate to it. I've gone to therapy for it. This feels like the right top three. And even number three, despite the fact that they are the defending champions with one of the greatest defenses you will ever see.
- [77:00]
Zach Lowe
Yep.
- [77:01]
Rob Mahoney
With coming off the greatest, biggest scoring margin in the history of the NBA and 60 whatever wins with the potential to win 70. I think this year. Oklahoma City at three still feels correct to me. I mean, it's their third. It's. We. That means we love watching the Thunder just not as much as the next. The next two teams. And. And maybe it's because their offense will have moments of. I don't say uninspired. Just a lot of. A lot of Shay, which is not a bad thing. A lot of J Dub, which not. I mean, Shay's like a. Like a ghost, like an apparition. You can't find him. He slips over here. He slips over there. Part of his body's over here. Part of his body's over there. Love J Dub. Excited for the Chet leap that I think could come particularly on offense. What does a full season of Chet look like? What does a full season of Chet and Hartenstein together look like? And just the. The sheer number of dudes who are going to come in the game to embarrass you when you get the ball. Yeah, like I'm going to. How about Case and Wallace? I'm going to take the ball from you. Alex Caruso, you meet a Guardio catch tonight. I'll take the ball from him. Sometimes Lou Dort put him in the Dort church. It's one after another of just. They make defense appointment viewing because of how ferocious they are, how aggressive they are and how they turn that into fast break offense. It's. It's. It's you. It's must watch defense. And that is a very rare thing.
- [78:22]
Zach Lowe
There is that like boa constrictor model of defense where again, you're just kind of suffocating. This is not that. This is like pack of hyenas swarming and gnawing and cackling while they do it all the time. And it's like the way that they celebrate and the energy that they're creating for themselves and for each other is part of what drives that whole machine. Right. Like it is an. It is an energized collectivism on defense that is so contagious and is so fun to watch. And it's like you have that plus, you know, and with it a healthy supply of force, turnovers that are leading to highlights. You have all this athleticism across the roster and then you have the superstar in Che who yes, can have, you know, huge volume on some nights. There are nights where it's a lot of Shea. There's a lot of nights where he's having to create a lot. He's also one of those stars who could score basically any way at any time. And that's who I want to be watching. That's who I want to be. Kind of on pins and needles seeing what he's going to do.
- [79:15]
Rob Mahoney
Next topic will come back at some point and be a little bit of a mystery box. A little mid season plot twist like, oh, let's see what this, let's see what this thing does. I just, they're. I mean I might be a little unreasonably excited for Case and Wallace. I just think there's more.
- [79:33]
Zach Lowe
Disagree. Let's. Let's amp it up. I want more, I want more excitement for Case and Wallace.
- [79:38]
Rob Mahoney
I just think there's more there and I just wonder how good he could be on the ball and if he'll ever really be able to show that on this team who doesn't really need him to. But obviously the more ball handling you have, the better. I just think there is a lot more untapped there. I love his spirit, I love his tenacity. And all of this collective sort of oomph is why I'm betting completely against championship hangover taking games for granted. Wake us up in May and June in part because Holmgren is still trying to like make an all NBA team and put himself in consideration for awards. And he and Hartenstein are still gaining their chemistry and just the hunger with which they play. Their, their apparent desire to not only beat you, but to embarrass you and take your will and take your soul. I think this team is going to win. Like I said before, I think it's more likely they win 70 games than go under 62 and a half, which is their line. I think they're going to be hungry and nasty and not at all like ye, wake us up in June, we're good.
- [80:39]
Zach Lowe
This is the thing, like I think there is a how far could they go factor with them that is so captivating and really leads to those like zeitgeisty moments. Right? Like we saw with Golden State when they were pushing for the record where it's like you get the proximity to these all time milestones. You feel them on the verge of just like, man, look at their schedule. If they just win these games, if they just don't drop these games all of a sudden they're going to be in historic territory. I think they could win 70 and I don't even think it'd be that hard. Like they were basically right there. They have incredible continuity and within that continuity almost every player you could expect to be better. Like how, how could you not pencil that team? And again, if they want to. For me it's left less a matter of championship hangover than do they decelerate a little bit for the sake of preserving, you know, like Alex Caruso even more than they did last season or protecting Chet from himself in certain kinds of ways. But as you mentioned, like the, the incentives for that are pointing full speed ahead, full momentum all the time.
- [81:36]
Rob Mahoney
The best argument for why what we're saying is ridiculous and over and over optimistic about their win total is just that the west is so good and there's going to be so many games that are tough, contested games. The west was already so good. It's probably a little better this year than it was last year. And this team ran roughshod over everybody. And when they defend like this, it's like they start every game ahead 100 no matter who they're playing. Their floor is just so high because you are not going to have a good offensive game against them. You're just not like maybe 10, 12 times a year a team will really punch above its weight on offense, make more threes than expected. Whatever your your expectations be, you're going to have a much worse offensive game than you usually do. And they're just hard to beat. Man, they're hard to beat at home. They destroyed the, I think they lost what, one game against the east last year. It's, it's. They're just hard to beat. But they come third in the league. I'm trying to think, is there anyone else on this team we should mention as you know, league pass catnip. AJ Mitchell. I like the AJ Mitchell experience.
- [82:38]
Zach Lowe
I'm always an AJ Mitchell guy. And especially as, as far as like, oh, someone coming off the bench for a random regular season game and really popping. They have so many of those guys. Like any game could be the AJ Mitchell game. Any game could be the Aaron Wiggins game. And like that's part of the beauty of what makes this team not only so successful in the playoffs, but so watchable for the regular season.
- [82:57]
Rob Mahoney
And it's. It's one of the reasons why I'm picking them to win the title again. I don't know if you've made a pick. I know no one's repeated. I made the mistake of taking the repeat bait last year and picking Boston. I do think so many players here on the upswing and Games 4 and 5 against Denver, when they were really on the ropes and they needed role players to make big shots to keep them alive. I just feel like living through those moments, living through game four in Indiana where the Pacers had a chance to snatch that series and Shade dug them out. You know, who knows what happens in Game 7. Obviously, we know that series looks like it was a coin toss. I just think living through those moments of tension and surviving them and moving on has to loosen you up and make you more confident the next time you face anything like that.
- [83:46]
Zach Lowe
Yes. Especially when you consider who did it. Right. It wasn't like this was a young team that brought in Kevin Durant and all, and KD did the heavy lifting in those moments. It had to be Shay. It had to be J dubbed. It had to be Kayson Wallace knocking down a big shot. Like, there's just enough of those moments that I'm completely with you. Like, the. The effect of that is tangible. It's not just psychological. It changes. It courses through the entire way you play and the way you carry yourself. Coming into next year's playoffs, we're down.
- [84:15]
Rob Mahoney
To the top two. And how. How could it be? Despite you putting the Hawks second, how could it be any other top two than the most watchable player in the NBA for, like, the last eight years in Nicole Jokic. And the new most watchable. What the hell is this guy going to do today? Player in Victor Wembanyama, who might be 79 by the time this podcast comes out, coming in second in the league pass rankings dethroned the Denver Nuggets, which means the league Pass champions of 2025, 2026 are Victor Wembanyama and the San Antonio Spurs.
- [84:59]
Zach Lowe
What a time to be alive.
- [85:01]
Rob Mahoney
You can pick either one which you want. We'll take them together. Where do you want to start? Let's.
- [85:05]
Zach Lowe
Let's keep it to order. Let's start with the Nuggets at number two.
- [85:09]
Rob Mahoney
It's just. I mean, there's a lot of cool stuff. There's a lot of cool stuff.
- [85:14]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [85:16]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, cool. Like, we could talk about Jonas Valentunas. Are they going to play the double bigs together? Jonas can beat the hell out of people we love. Aaron Gordon, Peyton Watson. Block shots so hard he feels like he's going to deflate the ball. It's just one guy. It's just the greatest passer I've ever seen.
- [85:31]
Zach Lowe
Yep.
- [85:32]
Rob Mahoney
The greatest, most creative, most ingenious player I've ever seen. Doing eight things a game that will make me laugh because of their combined brilliance, audaciousness, execution. I. There's just nobody like him. There's never been anybody like him. And it is eight to ten things a game. Whether it's the outlet pass, whether it's the no look to the opposite corner, whether it's a post pivot, pivot spin up and under. Oh my God, my defender just fell out of bounds. Hook shot in put backs, the king of the put. There's just nobody like Nicole Jokic.
- [86:02]
Zach Lowe
It does not get any better for me than Jokic in the paint whipping the pass around the defender as the three point shooter slides from the slot into the corner like, like passing him open in that exact way. No one knows what is happening. No one clocks at the angle, should not be there and probably frankly would not be there for anyone smaller than him because he needs the wingspan to get it there. That's as good as it gets. Like that. That is exactly what I want. And he delivers it with alarming frequency in ways that are new and exciting basically every time. Bending the laws of physics, bending the rules of basketball, like, is just doing things all the time that you cannot miss. And so if you, if you are not watching the Denver Nuggets regularly, please consult your chart about which games are on Peacock and NBC and which ones are going to be on espn, abc, like figure it out. But you need to get to the bottom of it to be watching the Nuggets all the time.
- [86:55]
Rob Mahoney
I said this on Bill's podcast last week. You know, I went when I got laid off from espn, I planned a guy's trip with my buddies and we went to New Orleans in part because there was a sports weekend of Pelicans, Nuggets, Pelicans, Lakers, Saints, Browns, I think all in a row, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And we got good seats to basketball games.
- [87:17]
Zach Lowe
Good seats are available in New Orleans.
- [87:20]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah.
- [87:21]
Zach Lowe
Shocking.
- [87:21]
Rob Mahoney
And I was talking to these guys in the lead up to the trip. They all know who Jokic is. They're sports fans. They're not big NBA fence, but the source fans. I'm like, I've been telling you guys, watching this dude in person from up close is, is like seeing God, it's Like touching God. Like it's a religious experience for a sports fan.
- [87:36]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [87:36]
Rob Mahoney
And it was one of the only games he's ever missed in his career. Gave birth and so we did not see Jokic. Yeah, I mean look Aaron Gordon, there's nothing not to like. Christian Brown, one man fast break. Wouldn't surprise me if he gets a contract extension in the next few hours here I still have my property on Strother Straits.
- [87:55]
Zach Lowe
Yeah. Has his moments captivating on the Christian Brown front. Not only a one man fast break, that man is a hammer. Like the way he gets up and the dunks he will pull off. Reason enough to watch. I also think like one of the under discussed elements of Denver's offseason because like it doesn't really matter in the way that the actual basketball stuff matters. Cam Johnson is just a. He just does more interesting things on a court than Michael Porter Jr. Does. And MPJ, incredible shooter, played a super important role for the team. Came up in huge moments, especially in Denver's title run. I'm not trying to disparage him, but there is something a little more stiff about him and pretty limited about the way he's deployed. That is just not true of Cam Johnson. And so the idea of oh, we already have this anchor in Jokic who's one of the most watchable players in the league. Oh, this is a deeper team than it used to be. Maybe with some of these young guys taking a step forward. And also the one part of the team that was kind of standstill might not be standstill anymore. I didn't know you could raise the roof in that way.
- [88:57]
Rob Mahoney
Yeah, I do think there in the fascination with Cam Johnson's fit with Denver and I'm as fascinated as anybody he can do more with the ball, he's a little nimbler and all of that. It hasn't been a disparagement of Michael Porter Jr. But people are so excited by that trade that I do think he's being undersold as a 610 knockdown, a plus off movement in traffic, hand in my face shooter. And although he's a minus defensively, his rotations were hit or miss. All of that can't stay in front of people. I think they're going to miss his size and his rebounding a little bit more than people realize. That's not to say I wouldn't have done the trade or don't think the trade is an upgrade. I think offensively it probably is. But I'm excited too. I mean just. And I hope this is the year we get Jamal Murray.
- [89:47]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [89:47]
Rob Mahoney
Full blast out of the gate.
- [89:49]
Zach Lowe
It kind of looks like it. I mean, again, preseason, very early. I don't want to over react to the glimpses, but like, he looks like a guy who's ready to set the season on fire, which is not usually the case.
- [89:59]
Rob Mahoney
We got the rainbow skyline back in their, one of their jerseys, whatever it is, and I, I've really grown to love the, the royal blue Mile High basketball jerseys. Just, there's just again, watching a Nuggets game sometimes late at night, sometimes I wake up and have my coffee and watch the Nuggets. It's just like getting into a warm bath. It's. I just, I'm so happy immediately. And it's just. I just know the next two hours are going to be a lot of fun. That said, they are not number one.
- [90:29]
Zach Lowe
They're not.
- [90:31]
Rob Mahoney
The San Antonio freaking Spurs have stole the league pass thrown. I mean, what is there to say? Say something.
- [90:41]
Zach Lowe
Here's what I want from the number one team. It is things that I don't even know how to ask for, like possibilities that are so surprising and extreme that they are beyond what I could reasonably imagine. And what I am saying is what I want is Victor Wembanyama. Like, I want a player like that and the stuff that we've seen from him recently, again, not trying to over lean on everything that's happening in the preseason, but like I assumed, Zach, you saw this play where he gets pinned in the right corner about one step inside the three point line and somehow steps through into a layup, like a wide open layup out of that. And I'm thinking back to like the moments where all of us were freaking out about the ground that Giannis could cover in the half court, you know, like two strides and all of a sudden he's, you know, all the way to the rim in transition. And with Victor Webman Yama, like he is 6 to 7 inches taller than that. And we have been talking about, oh, what's going to happen when he gets more physical, when he gets bigger, when his body fills out, when he adds these other aspects to his game. What happens when he has this level of footwork? What happens when all of a sudden the guy who can cover more ground than anybody else has a better sense of how to cover that ground. And I think we, we maybe thought a little too hard about, oh, how is he gonna react physically going forward? Or what is the next step? What was the shot he needs to add? I don't know. Man, he can stretch farther and step farther than anyone else in the sport. And I can't wait to watch him do it every single game.
- [92:07]
Rob Mahoney
Jokic. I know what I'm getting. I love it. Couldn't love it anymore. I know what I'm getting. Victor Wembanyama is a mystery. Every single night, I could see something that I didn't see coming, like a plot twist on a mystery TV show. Like, it just. Like, I just have no idea what's gonna happen. And you could tell me almost anything. I'd be like, okay, that sounds reasonable. Let me dial in and watch. I. I just. I don't even. He's going to do stuff every game that is inexplicable. And he. He blots out the sun on defense. It's like defending with six guys. It's not even fair.
- [92:47]
Zach Lowe
And he's going to win defensive player of the year, probably, if he stays healthy. And he's going to do it. He's going to win it in ways we've never seen before. Like, that is something that in itself is exciting. Like, this isn't a traditional rim protector. This is someone who is changing the geometry of the way everyone plays on the court.
- [93:03]
Rob Mahoney
He sometimes closes out to shooters from the paint, from the rim, almost. And as he's doing it, I'm like, that's. He's not going to get there. Like, that's kind of dumb. And I want him there for rebound. And then he blocks the shot or the guy shoots it so high.
- [93:18]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [93:19]
Rob Mahoney
That it's. It's. Has no chance to go in, or the guy just freaks out and passes to nobody because he has no pass available to him. And I'm like, oh, go get Victor. Wamanyama knows exactly how long and how fast he is, and I was an idiot for doubting it. And just like you said, the moves where he's somewhere far from the rim and then the ball is in the rim, and you're like, I don't. That didn't seem plausible to me that that happened. I don't. I just want to see all of it. I think it is. Every game is going to be appointment viewing. Every game that he plays against a talented peer is going to be appointment viewing.
- [93:54]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [93:55]
Rob Mahoney
The team is, you know, in. In a stage of figuring out how to build around it still. They've got some exciting pieces and all that. And I just, like, don't even care. I just don't even care. Like, you could nitpick. How so? Hand fit, Fox and Brian. I just Don't. I don't care. I think they're going to be good and I think he's just going to be otherworldly.
- [94:12]
Zach Lowe
Well, I think to do Matt on that part, like, all those complications are true and how all these players are going to fit together, all that stuff is valid. But like, this is the best part, right? This is the part where the expectations aren't quite here yet. Like, pressurizing everything. Everyone is still so young and yet they're gonna be good. Like, this is gonna be a good team anchored by one of the best basketball players in the world and someone who's doing it in all the ways we just described. And so it's like we get to watch Wemby and Fox figure out how to play together. Like, we get to watch every formative stage of that. We get to figure out, like, no one needs me to tell them that, like Dylan Harper has like some real juice on the ball, but, like the change of direction, speed, the finishing instincts, like, we get to see the way all of that fits and starts to find its shape together. This is, this is the best part. Like, this is exactly where you want to be as a team is on the rise. Clearly on the rise. Writing an all time generation, like a generational talent to wherever it is that you're gonna go. And no one quite knows where that is yet.
- [95:13]
Rob Mahoney
He's also transcended regular casual sports fandom in a way that Jokic never did. Yeah, which is to say I have. I'm in group chats and I have friends in, in this area of the country who, when the NBA schedule comes out, begin to map out when they are going to be in the same city as Victor Wembanyama or try to get the company tickets at Madison Square Garden or scour the secondary market for tickets in Brooklyn. Like, guys that I don't even realize are basketball fans. Like, I got to get to see Wembanyama. Well, that's it. League pass rankings. Any concluding thoughts on this? As we are now, when people listen to this, the season will be beginning today, Tuesday, October 21st. We got who we have. I don't even know who's playing. We have Lakers.
- [95:57]
Zach Lowe
Gotta figure that out.
- [95:58]
Rob Mahoney
Lakers, Wolves, I think. And let's see. Rockets, Thunder, Warriors, Lakers. What a start. What a start. Four of the top seven league pass rankings teams are playing right off the bat.
- [96:11]
Zach Lowe
It's like they did it just for us. Honestly, I feel great about our rankings. I do think that we did the Hawks a little dirty, but, you know, we gave them, their flowers. Certainly the core of this, like top five, though, like the crux of these teams that we've been talking about as the most watchable and charismatic. Like, I just think the league is in an amazing place and there are dramatically different styles of play here. There are stars who attack everything in totally different ways. Like, I know there's like constant hand wringing about ratings, about style of play, about just like the general basketball culture. I don't, I look at these top five and 10 teams and I don't feel any of that. Like, I feel, I feel really good about the state of the NBA right now.
- [96:50]
Rob Mahoney
In a few hours, as people are listening to this, Amin Thompson will be guarding Shay Gildrich Alexander in a basketball game that counts. That's what's happening. Rob Mahoney, thank you league pass rankings. You're a good soldier. I will see you down the line, sir.
- [97:05]
Zach Lowe
Thanks, Zach. Appreciate it.
- [97:08]
Rob Mahoney
Thanks to Rob Mahoney for slogging through the league pass rankings with us. It's a lot, but it was a lot of fun. We hit all 30 teams. Thanks to Jesse, Jonathan and Mike on production. Thanks to you all for listening and watching the Zach Lowe Show. Enjoy opening night. The season is here. It's going to be a fun season. We'll see you back later this week, probably on Thursday to talk about NBA basketball, what's been happening in the league. Thanks again. Must be 21 or over in President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-87-7-8, HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York.