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- [00:00]
Zach Lowe
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- [00:24]
Sponsor Announcer
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- [00:55]
Zach Lowe
Coming up on the Zach Lowe Show It's Friday afternoon, but you're probably going to be listening to this Sunday morning. LeBron James just signed with the Philadelphia 76ers about five and a half hours ago. I already taped an emergency Bill Simmons podcast with Bill Simmons. This is the deeper dive with Chris Ryan, Philly's own and Michael Pina to do the X's and O's. And where do the Sixers stack up in the Eastern Conference and all that good stuff. Just tons of stuff on like how is Chris feeling about LeBron James being a Sixer? Feels weird. It feels weird to say it out loud. It feels weird to look at him in the Sixers jersey. How is this going to work offensively? How did Jalen Brown, Tyrese Maxey, Vijay Edgecombe, Joel Embiid and LeBron freaking James all share the ball on offense? What do the rotations look like? Are we overlooking some potential defensive concerns? Would the Sixers try to trade Joel Embiid? Is that actually the smart thing for them to do? Is he completely untradeable? What trades even make sense? Where do they rank in the Eastern Conference, which has at least 11 pretty solid to very good teams? Is this the best starting five in the NBA? Is LeBron a ring chaser? We get into that and does this feel at at at peace with the rest of his career? Is this an outlier move? Just all the LeBron stuff. Again, you're listening to this Sunday morning because we're giving it a little lag time from the bill pot, but these are more or less our semi instant reactions Intel. I've been on the phone all afternoon. What did teams know when did they know it? What is. How are the teams going to pivot? So we'll talk a little bit about that all coming up on the Zach Lowe Show. Welcome to the Zach Lowe Show. You will be hearing this early Sunday morning, but we are recording it at exactly 4pm Eastern time on Friday because of our varying scheduling conflicts over the weekend. In the aftermath of LeBron James signing what he said will be his last decision, signing with the Philadelphia 76ers. Look, if something happens between now and when this post, I will try to my best to hop on and do a solo thing. I think we're going to see like Draymond Green, James Harden, potentially Jonathan Kaminga, the Cavs like him. We'll see DeMar DeRozan, Bradley Beal, Kawhi Leonard thing, who knows, like all of this stuff is in play, but we got to start. LeBron James is a Sixer and I got a lot of topics to hit. I got a lot of thoughts, got a lot of thoughts on the Eastern Conference, but I think it's important in these moments to just step back for a second and say the words again. LeBron James, the all time leading scorer in the NBA, arguably the greatest player of all time, is a member not of the Cleveland Cavaliers, not of the Miami Heat, not of the Los Angeles Lakers, not with his buddy Steph in Golden State of the Star crossed Philadelphia 76ers. He's going to be wearing a Sixers jersey that Allen Iverson wore. He's going to have to pick a jersey number that's available. I'm not sure. I guess 23 and 6 are just 6 probably isn't available. I don't know. Chris Ryan, he's a Sixer.
- [03:59]
Chris Ryan
How can you say it one more time?
- [04:02]
Zach Lowe
LeBron James, LeBron James. And maybe someday Bronnie James. But currently LeBron James is a member of the Philadelphia 76ers with Joel Embiid, Tyrese Maxey, BJ Edgecomb, Dean Wade, Anthony Simons and Jalen Brown. Yeah, I mean I just need you're, you're an NBA die hard like the rest of us. You've our lives, our age, our age range, we like perfectly align with LeBron's age range and career. Like is, are you just still floored? What's happening in your life?
- [04:35]
Chris Ryan
Total shock. A very, very classic. Like looked at my phone at 8:30 and had 75 text messages. This feels better than not getting LeBron James, I'll say that. Which has happened a couple of times over the course of LeBron's career. You know, where the Philly has been, like this outsider candidate to land him. Probably always used for leverage, never a realistic destination. I have no idea like, how this happened. I mean, there had been like these little rumors and you know, Josh Harris is talking to him at Fanatics Fest and you know, Maxie and Vijay and Jaylen and Embiid are all lobbying him and all this stuff. But I was doing the, the, the crazy, like, where could, where could his kids go to school? Like, what would be. How would this work for him? Like, functionally? Like, I actually got, I went down the rabbit hole and I found the rabbit. Like, this is wild. That, like, for the first time, this is like, you get through this, like, you know, tracking private flights, business, and you find out like he's coming here. And yes, it's the last decision. It's, it's, it's a different version of LeBron probably than, you know, we could have had various other stops in his career. But this is really cool, man. This is a really cool feeling. They're partying in Margate. Apparently there are like already airplanes flying over the Jersey Shore with LeBron ban banners. People are flipping out. It's, it's really awesome.
- [06:04]
Zach Lowe
I mean, LeBron has not, in his various stops, has not really crossed paths with the Sixers in a high stakes playoff series many times. If, if any really. I mean, it's happened, but not really in high stakes series. There was a Heat Sixers at one point and, and, but like, but we've all had our ups and downs with LeBron. He engenders a lot of emotions. Like, do. How do you feel like your emotional relationship. What is with LeBron? Was there ever a point of time where you were sick of him, tired of him? He's a phony. I hate him. I hate the Heat. Like, how are you? How have you been? And how are you reconciling that with today?
- [06:40]
Chris Ryan
I think that what I really love about this was that I was there for the third game, the first Philly game of the Knicks series. And when I was there, this last one, this last one, just this most recent playoff series. And it's impossible to overstate how humiliating and depressing that was to have the building full of Knicks fans, to have the bathroom full of Knicks fans, to have Knicks fans on the concourse. And it honestly, even though I really enjoyed like elements of that team and Vijay's story in the first season that he had, it just felt like something of a low. Like this is always going to be what it is. And so this this summer has just felt so revitalizing, you know, and it's felt like this infusion of new and old blood. So any, like, animus that I've ever had about LeBron is out the window. And also, you know, it kind of makes me feel a little bit like, if he can do for Philly, this is going to sound so stupid. Please don't clip this. If he can do for Philly what Messi did for Argentina, like, that's enough. Like, if he can just walk through parts of the season, make people around him better, you know, like, provide us with a few moments of absolute brilliance and be there for the playoffs. Like, this is just such a great ride. Like, I. I am. I'm going to have to, like, now look into long term stays in Philly.
- [08:03]
Zach Lowe
Now. Simmons. I already did Simmons emergency podcast. He's already. I mean, you know, Bill, his. His brain is firing in three different directions. So he opened the podcast with like, I wonder if LeBron's going to play till he's 45 and he's going to go to Cleveland after the two years with Philly. And I was like, bill, Bill, he just signed with Philly 45 seconds ago. I think he's going to retire. If I'm taking his Twitter post at his word that this is his last decision, that means he'd retire a Philadelphia 76er.
- [08:32]
Chris Ryan
I just hope he doesn't. I feel like getting booed.
- [08:35]
Zach Lowe
I feel like the whole rest of the pod could just be, like, us just making faces and staring into the abyss of, like, what just happened. Michael Pina is here. Michael, how are you?
- [08:47]
Michael Pina
I'm doing wonderful. Not as well as Chris, but I'm doing wonderful.
- [08:50]
Zach Lowe
Well, you already wrote a column that, you know, just poked the air right out of the balloon for poor ryan on the ringer.com about how Philly is not even guaranteed to be a top six seed in this beefed up Eastern Conference. So we're going to get there, and we're going to go through the east. But I want to use that column as just again, Chris, Emotionally, it's been a strange 15 years for the Philadelphia 76ers. Every moment of hope has been punctuated by a gut punch of inexplicable despair, organizational incompetence, absurdist comedy. I mean, just the worst possible, like, pivots. Are you allowing yourself to feel like, legitimate, hey, we might actually have a championship team here, Hope. Or is this just like, let's just have fun and what happens, happens.
- [09:41]
Chris Ryan
It's kind of the latter like, it's kind of like I, you know, one of the sensations that I often have had over the last five, five or so seasons post Jimmy Butler probably is Sixers get eliminated if they make the playoffs, they get eliminated in the second round or whatever. And then I watch the rest of the playoffs and I'm like, we're not even playing the same sport. Like, when you see the teams in the Final Four and in the finals and you see, like, the level that they're playing, and you're like, we're not. We're not on Denver's level that year. We're not on Oklahoma City's level. We're not on San Antonio, New York's level. Like, this isn't even the same league. And so it remains to be seen whether or not an older gentleman, like, can infuse this team with the kind of athleticism and. And versatility that you need to compete in today's NBA. But what I really just can't wait is just to see these guys on the floor together. Like, the first time LeBron throws an outlet to Vijay, I'm going to lose my mind.
- [10:35]
Zach Lowe
Pina, you are correct to identify the east as. As a. A very strong collection of teams. I think there are 11 legit good to pretty good teams in the Eastern Conference. A top six seed is, you know, it's going to require a pretty goddamn good regular season. I do think the Sixers, by adding just another top 20, top 25, where you're on a classify. LeBron talent and one who leans offense, ball handling, shot creation, have kind of insulated their. Themselves, have hired, have raised their floor in the regular season for, like, Embiid's out. What's our team look like? LeBron's resting, but Embiid's healthy. What's our team look like? I think they're pretty well positioned to navigate the 82 in a way that gets them into the top six. But I generally would put it like this. The east is. Is better than the west, top to bottom. But LeBron, I think, is correct to identify the path to the Finals as being easier out of the east, even if it is the superior conference, top to bottom. Because no matter where you go in the west, and Golden State was really the only one in it, I think the idea of beating both San Antonio and Oklahoma City in the playoffs is kind of ludicrous. And now you at least set yourself up. The path to the Finals might be more difficult, but we only got to beat one of those teams. But, like, here's How I would summarize the East, I wonder what you think of this, because I agree with you that I think in the euphoria over this decision, over it being done, over the newness of LeBron on the Sixers over Embiid, has this running mate and Jalen Brown just got here. What the hell is going on? What is this team? I do think, like, the, like the east is going to be hard. And if you told me this ends up being the fourth seed or the fifth seed, I wouldn't be surprised. But on the other hand, I will say, how many teams in the east do you look at right now as of today? And again, we haven't seen Harden, we haven't seen what the Cav do, whatever. How many teams in the east do you look at as being definitively better than the Philadelphia 76ers? And which teams are they?
- [12:35]
Michael Pina
Well, that's a. That's a great question. I mean, to start, I would not bet my life that the Sixers will not finish in the top six. I would think that they will. I. I think they obviously have a ton of talent in that. Starting five, as I wrote, is extremely scary. And I cannot, echoing what Christian said, I cannot wait to watch them play basketball. I mean, I think the New York Knicks are probably definitively better. Just, they just won the title and they have a style of play that is clearly winning basketball. And I mean, they lost one player from that team who's very important. But I. Expecting the New York Knicks to be awesome next season, definitively better. It's. It's tough to answer. I mean, I think to your point that the Western Conference has the Oklahoma City Thunder and the San Antonio spurs at the top is obviously correct. And in the east, it's just more of like a. There's a lot of really good teams and which team is healthiest, which team is clicking at the right time in the right spot, will win the conference, I feel like. So it's tough to definitively state, especially with all the change that we've seen in the conference from the Raptors, Celtics, Cleveland Cavaliers, unsettled Detroit Pistons. Their big move is getting John Collins basically as the 1 seed. So it's difficult to say. I just have a lot of questions about the Sixers team. I'm super excited to watch them Play. I think LeBron is kind of a brilliant fit in his ability to be a connective tissue, and we know that he's willing to take a backseat in a lot of different ways, but I don't know. I guess the big question for me when I look at this team is Joel Embiid. And we haven't really mentioned him yet, but he is the shadow hanging over all of this and his health is just this massive question that we won't have an answer to until they play basketball in the spring.
- [14:36]
Zach Lowe
I will answer my own question. But Chris, do you have any thoughts?
- [14:40]
Chris Ryan
I don't want to get too over my skis. I think the Knicks are better. I think that I respect what Cleveland has done over multiple regular seasons. So I'm going to at least like allow for the possibility that their, their coherence and their stability, if you call what they have stability like, I'm sure they will be a very good regular season team.
- [15:05]
Zach Lowe
Analytically they will be quite good. I can guarantee that.
- [15:09]
Chris Ryan
The Miami thing, I don't really see it yet, but I think that they'll be like, this is the thing that's really wild is the east is now like the blockbuster conference. The east is every night trae Young and AD might play against LeBron and Maxi and Jalen and Embiid or you know, Halliburton is back and he has his retooled Pacers and they're playing against presumably Kauai and Toronto. Like that's that. That is a very different scenario than the one that we've probably spent most of our professional lives covering of. You know, east coast hours are kind of like pretty, pretty grim after a while. So like I think this is all going to come down to who tries hardest and is healthiest during the regular season. But I could see the team that comes in to Pina's point, the sixth seed of the Eastern Conference might be the most dangerous team in the Eastern Conference when it gets to the playoff.
- [16:06]
Zach Lowe
Would say it might be a 50 win team except I think with no one outright tanking this year or no one incentivized to do it, at least I, I mean this year the sixth seed was a 46 win team. These teams are just going to beat up on each other all year. So I don't know, but it, it will qualitatively I think regardless of the record is be a team of that quality. And by the way, you mentioned Washington. Washington was not Even among the 11 teams that I mentioned that are good to pretty good and they could be decent. They're over under 34 and a half. That feels about right to me. But like Detroit is going to win a ton of games regardless what you think of their off season. Boston is going to win a lot of games that maybe not a ton, but they'll be a 50 ish win team despite what you think of their off season. And it has not gone great. The Cavs are the Cavs. They'll pivot a little bit here. Toronto presumably will get Kawhi. The Hawks are still good. Orlando's solid, Charlotte solid. Miami got Giannis. I mean, on and on and on. Indiana's back or semi back, at least. The answer to my own question though, and in defense of LeBron, sort of, because I've already heard from front office executives who think LeBron made to take out all the other variables just for winning. Some say he made the right perfect decision. Others have already, you know, text called and said, well, this is a really bad decision. You know, it's just one ball. All these guys are going to. It's going to be clunky. They all need the ball. It's not going to work. There's going to be chemistry. I lean more toward the former poll where I think this is going to be a good team. I think this is a perfectly reasonable decision to win. And the only team that I would say, the only one in the east that I can say right now, today, I think is better than the Sixers is the Knicks. That's it. That's the end of my list. Everyone else has questions, including the Sixers. Look, it, it is as simple as Embiid, right? I mean, I don't know. I don't know what else to say. I don't think this team is a championship team with Huck Porty as the starting center. If Embiid's out in the finals or the conference finals or Adam Bona or whoever it is, I think they're going to need Joel Embiid to be healthy through three or to win the title for a playoff series, which he's never done. I'm on record as saying I don't think it will ever happen. And so I don't really know what to make of this, how to put those thoughts together. Bill and I were talking about how you very smartly, Chris, during the Knicks series, was it a game one or game Game one. I think you said just bench NBA.
- [18:15]
Chris Ryan
Right. We should, we should basically like be playing him on his own schedule rather than the NBA's. Yeah.
- [18:20]
Zach Lowe
And we're out of gas after seven games against Boston. Our only shot, steal one of these games. Rest Embiid. And at the very least, if you conclude, if you get through the first 82 with Embiid healthy, and that may involve him playing 45 games, whatever it is, just get him healthy, get to the playoffs as healthy as you can get him. That may be the, like, you may have to try stuff like that. Like, hey, you know, we're up 20 in this series. We're just going to rest Joel in game three. And now you at least have a blueprint to like, can you play LeBron at the five a little bit in like these wing heavy, power forward heavy lineups? Can you play a dembona for 15 minutes and Huck 40 for 15 minutes, sign a ring chasing center somewhere and like steal a win? We've seen them steal wins without Joel before, including in these playoffs. That, that may be the only way to get them across the finish line. But I. Look, I don't think you can't do much better than they did in this off season. And I think this team, we can talk about stylistically how it's going to work, but I think it's going to. I think it's going to work. I think you should be optimistic.
- [19:22]
Chris Ryan
Yeah, you know, I, when, when Jaylen Brown got traded to the Sixers, I was a little bit like, this is pretty funny on like a content level and then just in a sort of like, you know, the arc of the universe bending away or towards Bill, depending on how you want to look at it. But I was really concerned. Whereas, like, these guys kind of like to operate in similar fashions. Embiid and Jaylen Brown like to have the ball in their hands, in and around the nail, around the mid court. They like to take their time and draw doubles and do all these things. And what I am hope choosing to believe in now, now that this team has been assembled is the optionality of it all. And on certain nights, you know, there are going to. Are we going to get a VJ game again? I don't know if there's enough ball to go around for that, but you know, they're going to need horses and they're going to need Maxi and Vijay and Jalen to carry this team when embiid's out for two weeks or LeBron is going to do a rest night or whatever it is. And also just culturally and like, in terms of chemistry, it's like this is going to be like a pretty significant uptick in scrutiny for these guys that I don't think they've ever experienced before. You know, like, this is going to be like national media attention on a night to night basis that, you know, I think people got kind of like bored with the Lakers show. And I think it's, I think it's kind of that the Sixers index is
- [20:44]
Zach Lowe
going to be, oh boy, oh boy, be popping.
- [20:47]
Chris Ryan
You know,
- [20:49]
Zach Lowe
we can, we'll get into the X's and O's a bit, but Pina, outline your concerns for us about what, other than Embiid's health, actually, I'll lead you this way. I do think there's going to be some systemic, like issues to work out on offense. Defensively. I mean, people overlook that end of the floor. I think they should be okay defensively. And Beat is still a decent rim protector when he's healthy. I mean, the shots at the rim go down, opponent shooting percentage at the rim goes down. Like, those are real things. He's still a big, enormous impediment. But, you know, they'll have to work some things out there too. But the big question to me is, like, what is Embiid doing on offense now? Like, literally in the most literal sense, where is he? Because I'm not sure. If you have this collection of guys on the floor and you can stagger minutes all you want and they will, like, they'll stagger as strictly as you can, they'll find this pairing works and that pairing works, they'll do all that. But like, I'm not sure you can just dump the ball to Joel Embiid in the post with all these guys around him. He's not a good enough three point shooter to be super dangerous in that sense. Unless, unless he rebounds to where he was shooting 37, 38% now and then. And that would really change everything for this team. He doesn't really want to roll hard to the basket. And so he'll be at the nail a lot, I think, is the answer. He'll be at the nail in the flow, like catching it on the pick and roll with the defense in motion, making reads. He'll be holding the ball there and then around that. They just have to figure it out. But I assume your concerns are partly offensive fit, partly, hey, defensively, how is this going to work and do they have enough depth?
- [22:25]
Michael Pina
Yeah, you nailed it. I think offensively, just the fact I'll start with Jalen kind of coming in here because he's coming off a season where he was top five in usage, had every opportunity to shoot and score and have the ball in his hands when he wanted on that Celtics team, called it the best season or favorite season of his career. And the fact that he was traded from a situation like that to one where, you know, Cru Just mentioned, like, DJ Edgecomb will have nights and it's like, Jalen, I don't think Jaylon wants that.
- [23:01]
Chris Ryan
I think that you would know better than me. I've thought about this a lot.
- [23:06]
Michael Pina
Yeah. I think that if he is to be super happy and play for this extension that he's eligible for, I just think the guy was like going from the mentality of I have my own team to, okay, I'm going to be the fourth option tonight or I'm going to go six, seven straight possessions where I don't even touch the ball. Maybe. So I just have. I'm not saying, like, it won't work at all. I'm just curious to see where the pieces are, what the offense looks like. As you said, like, playing through Joel Embiid. I think those days might be over. I have no concerns about LeBron James obviously fitting in offensively. He'll figure it out, but I think just satisfying everyone who is extremely high usage on this team and in the past and getting them to all buy in and sacrifice touches, shots, minutes, I just think it's really interesting and a huge hurdle for Nick Nurse to solve. So that's, that's offensively the deal. But, like, everyone's super smart. They have a ton of force, a ton of power, speed. I think they'll play faster than we think. You know, LeBron James finished first in fast break points last season. Jalen Brown obviously wants to play fast. Tyrese Maxey's on the team. He's like the fastest player in the world.
- [24:28]
Chris Ryan
Yeah.
- [24:28]
Michael Pina
DJ Edgecombe as well. So I think they'll play faster than, than people might be anticipating. But, like, when I think about the NBA right now and what it takes to win, I, I pivot immediately to the depth. And I just think that this is like a seven man roster.
- [24:48]
Chris Ryan
Yes.
- [24:48]
Michael Pina
And then it just kind of falls off a cliff a little bit. And that's being generous to like, I'm not a huge Anthony Simons fan at all and he's never played in the playoffs, so I have questions there. And like, I think that on paper, the starting five and probably the closing five is demolition derby and they'll be awesome. I think that it's worth pointing out some spacing. Spacing questions. And if you have someone, I'm not saying, like, take Jaylen Brown and put him on the bench, but I am saying when you have someone like Dean Wade who you brought in, his, like, best attribute is the, is his ability to knock down open corner threes and defend the other team's. Best player. So I just, I just, I have so many questions. My brain is kind of like leaking out of my ears just trying to think about this. It's like, it is wild. So I don't mean to puncture the balloon and be like a negative Nancy here, but I just, I think there are a lot of questions that need to be answered and it's, it's going to just be a fascinating team to watch play every single night all season long.
- [25:51]
Chris Ryan
Zach, how did Gansey do this? How did, like, what happened?
- [25:56]
Zach Lowe
I mean, when he jinxed the no hitter in at the Philly Stadium, whatever it's called, like, and he got a lot of maybe that maybe some, some magical thing happened from the heavens after ever since that moment. Maybe he, maybe he did exactly what he should have done. And now the baseball gods and basketball gods are all warning, I don't know. Dean Wade's his guy. He knows LeBron really well. They played high school basketball, like, in the same area when they were, when they were kids. It's kind of crazy. But, yeah, he's done it. He's done a great job. And I think, you know, Bill mentioned Daryl Mori is one of the big sort of losers of all of this, of this transaction, along with the Cavs and the warriors and the Heat and all the teams he didn't go to. We'll get to all of them. But yeah, Gansey is, is a winner. And it's an interesting counterfactual. Does this happen if Daryl morey is the GM of the team? Because LeBron and Mori have obviously kind of gone head to head on a couple of things, including the infamous Hong Kong tweet that Daryl, that Daryl had and, and all that. All right, let's take a quick break and I'm going to tell you why I think this is actually going to work on often.
- [26:52]
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- [27:54]
Zach Lowe
all right, Pino, you mentioned the depth issue and I do think there's some reality to that. The sixth and seventh guys are Simons and Wade. I mentioned the backup centers. I like Jabari Walker fine. I like Justin Edwards fine. I think they'll, I like Barlo fine. I think they'll find enough minutes from those guys, but I think they could use another quality guy offensively. Look, the combined usage rate of this starting five is like 140%.
- [28:19]
Chris Ryan
So is it unprecedented? Almost like
- [28:24]
Zach Lowe
it might like there's not even like a Mario Chalmers. I mean the DJ Edgecomb is like the closest thing in the starting lineup to like the Mario Chalmers, Norris Cole guy. It might be pretty close to unprecedented. Here are the workarounds. Number one, Peanut mentioned pace. I think this team is going to play super fast and to just and if they have to leave him beat in the dust now and then to do it, that's fine. The other four guys are built to play fast. That's the way Edgecomb is going to run into points that maybe won't be there for him as much in the half court. Number two, Tyrese Maxey shot 43% on catch and shoot threes last season and Vijay Edgecombe shot 39%. Those guys are fine playing off the ball. Maxi is not like a pound it, pound it style point guard. He'll get off it, he'll cut, he'll attack closeouts, he'll attack diagonal gaps like I don't worry about him at all. Jalen Brown has been actually kind of an average to below average catch and shoot three point shooter. He's going to have to shoot better there and that's where the work, the work is right, is like, you know, Brown and Tatum would occasionally run two man game together if one of them had a small guy on them or a bigger guy on them and they could get a switch and a mismatch and attack it that way. You could do that with LeBron and Jaylen Brown. You can use Maxi as a screener or Edgecomb as a screener. Whoever has the littlest, weakest defender on him for any of these guys and sort of hunt that way and then you just have to Figure out what's Embiid doing? Is he in the dunker spot trying to get offensive rebounds? Is he spacing the floor? Like almost every really great team has some version of this problem and you just have to figure it out. And minutes staggering is part of it and creative coaching is part of it and sacrifice is part of it. And I do think they'll run into occasional issues like that and growing pains and all that. But I mean, what was the alternative? Not signing LeBron James and not trading for Jalen Brown? Like this seems like a really good place for them to end up. I'm actually a little bit more concerned about the defense than I am about the offense. Not that it's going to be bad or anything, but Bill and I were having this debate. I mean Bill, Bill's take all along was The Cavs with LeBron were, were going to be a paper tiger that they're, they, they're defensively, they were going to be too limited because of Harden and Mitchell and LeBron's old and you have the, who has the ball problem with these three ball dominant perimeter guys and this defense problem with the two small guards and, and Harden is, you know, on again, off again a civilian. And I said to him like, I'm not. Is this, are we sure this is like a better defensive environment for LeBron than that Cleveland team? Because you do have two small, smallish guards in Edgecomb and Maxi. Now they both try really, really hard and Maxi made huge strides defensively and Edgecombe is probably a plus for his position. LeBron is still 41 years old. Jaylen Brown's okay to good. Embiid is like maybe available, maybe not, maybe super engaged, maybe not. And like Cleveland would have had this double big thing of Mobley and Ale to at least put out some fires. Like I think they're going to have some work to do to be a top 1012 defensive team. I don't, I, maybe I'm too pessimistic. I don't know. What do you think, Chris?
- [31:30]
Chris Ryan
I do not see, I do not see this team being like a defensive stalwart. And if, if there's, I almost trust these guys with the combined basketball IQ with people at the various places in their careers to figure out the offense, but the defense is going to really rely on like can you preserve Embiid? And you know, for me I was actually wonder like, are, are we going to see something like embiId and, and LeBron playing around 28 minutes a game? You know what I mean? Like where they, we should, you know where they are. They've got Embiid on a Wemby plan where they've got LeBron. Like, sure, like, you know, you come and you start and you get announced last and everything. But like you're going to probably play less than 30 minutes most nights and if you're doing that and you've got, you know, Simon's out there, it's a, that's a small and, and, and not particularly like staunch team. So, yeah, I'm worried about it. I'm worried about it because of the reasons I just said, which is like I just watched Castle and Harper and Mikhail Bridges and Josh Hart play like Wolverines, you know, like on the defensive side of the ball. That seems how you win a championship now. And we don't. We know the Sixers don't really have that kind of identity.
- [32:46]
Zach Lowe
Pina.
- [32:46]
Michael Pina
Yeah, I'll just say, I'll just say real quick. Size is going to be an issue, I think for sure. And I think I keep going back to this, but I just think Dean Wade is a really important player on this team and teams will go at Joel Embiid in the pick and roll a ton. He's a solid rim protector still, but I think you'll make him move quite a bit. And you know, I feel like going back to Jaylen Brown on offense if he's unhappy. Like, I just think about that series against the Celtics or Celtics Sixer series where he's getting back cut over and over again by Kelly Oubre Jr. And that's just kind of who he is off ball defensively. He's kind of lauded for his on ball tenacity and in the finals versus Luka people talk about all the time, but I kind of weigh him out as an average defensive player because of just the spaciness that he still has this late in his career as a help defender. So I think that there's definitely a lot of intelligence for sure and Maxey's gotten better and he maximizes his size and I love Edgecomb defensively and I think he'll continue to make strides there. LeBron is super smart and he's always in the right spot and he's a brilliant communicator. But I think that it's okay to be a little cynical about this team defensively and if you were to put them on a like a minutes plan, that's when I go back to. Okay, so who is playing those minutes and you know, winning the game and is it. Who is it against? And I Just I. Questions. I have questions.
- [34:19]
Zach Lowe
I like it. Like I said, if this team's the fourth or the fifth seed, no one should be all that surprised. And I don't even think they would really care as long as they got into the top six and were healthy. You know, I don't know if I want to go here yet, but I will. The Embiid question is really interesting because he's meant a lot to Philly. The fans, I think they still mostly love him. There's been some ups and downs. Bill right away on his pod. On the pod we did. Was already pitching.
- [34:50]
Chris Ryan
He was already Picassoing.
- [34:52]
Zach Lowe
He was already Picassoing and be for Anthony Davis.
- [34:56]
Michael Pina
Oh, yeah.
- [34:57]
Zach Lowe
Embiid for Daniel Gafford, PJ Washington, and Klay Thompson. With the Sixers kicking in draft compensation. And I poo pooed him because I was like, can we just sit, can we just sit here for, like, for a minute? He just, like, he just, LeBron just went to the Sixers. I don't know if I should have. I don't know if I should have poo pooed him that strongly. I, I, I just, I'll have my antenna up for Joel Embiid Trade noise during the summer, during the season, I'm just, I'm on alert. I don't really know that he's tradable without the Sixers kicking in all the draft assets they have that they have, given that he's got three years left on this monster contract. But they're not Pollyanna about it. They know that they're not going to be able to rely on him to stay healthy and that he is a just, it's a. The team has completely changed around him on both ends of the floor. I don't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't just dismiss it as an impossibility, I guess, is what I'm saying.
- [35:57]
Michael Pina
Zach, can I jump in? Quick question. What is wrong with the. From Philly's perspective, the AD&B trade, and I understand the Embiid's contract and saying it's untradable and everything, but trading for AD is. I have to extend ad, so there's the downside there, and you'd kind of be doing Washington a little bit of a favor, and I'm sure that they would be the ones receiving draft compensation there. So I just, I, that seems like a win. Not, not a win win, but something that Philly would like behind the scenes aggressively pursue. It just makes a ton of sense for them, particularly if LeBron puts his finger on the scale Chris, would you
- [36:38]
Zach Lowe
like to address that question?
- [36:42]
Chris Ryan
The most important six are obviously since Iverson and Iverson got traded. So, like, anything is possible. Embiid embodying this era, so specifically calling himself the process, like being like the sort of mascot of this multi gm, multi phase effort to rebuild a team that was like, fine when they started rebuilding it. It's. He's so ingrained with Philly basketball culture at this point, even though he has plenty of people who are like, I can't anymore with this, with, you know, this injury or that injury or this weird cryptic statement, or you don't seem like you want to play. But the idea of getting LeBron James and then trading Joel Embiid, if Gansey does that, he should star in the next John Wick movie. If Gansey, if Mike Gansey is like, the plan has come together and now I'm going to get PJ Washington and Daniel Gafford and Klay Thompson. Then like, it's, it's end of Godfather type stuff. And I think Philly would adjust, you know, I think they would, they would still go to games. But I think that the idea of finally, like having this assemblage of talent with Embiid, if not around him and then being like, have fun.
- [37:55]
Zach Lowe
And when he, when he pitched the Dallas one to me and other people have pitched a Miles Turner version to me, where I don't know what the. Forget what the Bucks are doing with Joel Embiid and how sad that would be. My initial response to those was like, just, we've, we've all invested too much together. Can we give it a shot? Can we just give it. We know, like, he's going to play 45 games and he's probably going to get hurt in the second round of the playoffs. Can we just see. Can we just give it a shot? Which is naive and dumb.
- [38:25]
Chris Ryan
The whole point of cheering for, like, following sports and cheering for a team is to say, what if he doesn't. Like, what if he doesn't get hurt?
- [38:31]
Zach Lowe
Exactly.
- [38:32]
Michael Pina
What if.
- [38:32]
Chris Ryan
What if somehow, like, you have to believe in these things. I know what the history tells us and I know what the stats tell us. But, like, I, I don't think. Look, I've been worried or like, noticing that they have not done a Jaylen Brown press conference since this trade. Like, there was not a welcome Jalen to the team. I thought that was weird. I thought maybe it was because there was other moves coming. I had no idea it was something like this. But they didn't want Jalen to walk out on the dais and say, like, well, I can't wait to play with this guy. And then this guy gets traded or, you know, make some sort of statement about how he's going to take over, like, leadership here and, you know, bring Maxi and. And Vijay along or whatever it is. So I think it's been noticed by many people that Jaylen Brown has not been introduced as a Sixer yet. And I was worried that it actually had something to do with Embiid. I was worried that they didn't want him to have to go out there and be like, you know, I just can't wait to play with Joelle. It's been a lifelong dream of mine or whatever. And then the next day, they. Some crazy deal happens. But I don't know. I don't. I don't know. In. In. In Mike Gansey's, like, Batman Chamber, like, what's the order of operations and what's his order of preferences? Pino, I mean, like, do you think that that's too sentimental on my part to be, like, you know, like, not without Joel.
- [39:52]
Michael Pina
No. Well, no. I mean, Joel, we won't leave you behind.
- [39:57]
Zach Lowe
I will find you.
- [40:00]
Michael Pina
No, man, Like, I totally get what you're saying.
- [40:02]
Chris Ryan
Yeah, exactly.
- [40:05]
Michael Pina
And that is why you watch sports, for sure. I also look at it flipping it around from the Celtics perspective and seeing all the Celtics fan kids crying when they. And Jaylen Brown never won mvp. And he's not that pedigree. He did win a Finals MVP and was there for a decade and was so embedded in the community and beloved in Boston, and for them to just trade him for Paul George and two picks, obviously, the PR situation was a. The backlash was a total nightmare. So, I mean, it does. It does happen in the end. This is the NBA, and so, like, you're not. You're not incorrect to feel that way, for sure. I. I just wouldn't be surprised at all if the Sixers did it. And I think that they are motivated to do it. And I think the thing that surprised me the most about LeBron picking the Sixers was the Embiid question mark, because he is brilliant, and he knows that Joel Embiid has never been out of the second round of the playoffs, and he knows that his body is his body. I mean, he played it in the Olympics with him, and he could barely get up and down the court for stretches. It was a miracle in the Serbia game.
- [41:17]
Chris Ryan
So
- [41:19]
Michael Pina
I just wouldn't be surprised almost to the point where I'm expecting a trade at this point, which is kind of wild to say.
- [41:26]
Zach Lowe
Here's. I am not a Sixers fan. I do love the city of Philadelphia. It is the most underrated city in America. It's not even underrated anymore. I think it's been. People now appreciate it for what it is.
- [41:35]
Chris Ryan
Thank you, Zach.
- [41:36]
Zach Lowe
And I love Philly fans. I went to a World cup game in Philadelphia. I had time of my life. Here's the emotional element to me as an outsider. You have, you have. You've gone through a lot together with Joel Embiid, fan to player. A lot of ups, a lot of downs, a lot of emotions, a lot of setbacks, a lot of pain. Bell's palsy was involved at one point. It's one thing to kick that to the curb for Daniel Gafford and P.J. washington or Miles Turner. Like, I could see, like, as a, as a fan, I just like, God, that sucks. Like, these guys are so fucking boring. Like, I, I can. I'd rather watch Joel Embiid limp up and down the court on the off chance that maybe he's not limping in June by some miracle. Then be like, Miles Turner's picking pop three is pretty meshing pretty well with Tyrese Maxey these days, but wouldn't that
- [42:29]
Chris Ryan
be the most processed thing?
- [42:31]
Zach Lowe
You know, PJ Washington's cutting from the dunker spot is quite underrated on this team.
- [42:36]
Chris Ryan
This is a great new character, Zach. I think you should do a lot more with this.
- [42:39]
Zach Lowe
But that, that's distinct from like, Anthony Davis is pretty fucking awesome. And if I were the Sixers, I would actually be trying to do that. And it would. It like, wouldn't shock me if it comes out in two months that the two teams talk to some degree. Now, the Wizards said all the things about how they want Anthony Davis on their team. They want Trey Young and Anthony Davis to play together. They want to chase a play in spot maybe and be competitive new. Well, you can't tank anymore. You know, all that stuff. And so what the draft compensation would be. By the way, Philly doesn't have that much draft compensation left because of the Jaylen Brown trade. But that to me is at least like a. As a fan, you could be like, at least this is exciting. Like, this is a top 75 all time player who does. He will roll to the rim. He is a more mobile and, and well rounded defender than Joel Embiid. He does not need the ball as much and sort of kind of fits this team a little bit better. The shooting downgrade's a Bit of a concern, but at least as a fan, you could be like, at least this guy's awesome. Yeah, it's really sad. I mean, Joel Embiid in street clothes at a Washington Wizards home game is one of the more depressing images that I have conjured in a long time. But as a Philly fan, at least ad is exciting. least I've traded this guy that I've lived and died with for a decade plus for something exciting. Not like this collection of role players.
- [44:00]
Chris Ryan
No comment. You know what I mean? Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, yes, I understand exactly what you're saying. Is, is Davis. How much more durable is Davis than Joel?
- [44:10]
Zach Lowe
Well, okay, so that's an important question because a lot of AD's injuries are the sort of random, like, shoulder, wrist, my finger, thumb in a jersey. And Embiid has also had a lot of, like, freakish injuries in the playoffs. Bell's palsies, Siakam elbowing him in the face and breaking his orbital bone and on and on. But the knee thing is now kind of officially a chronic thing with the Kaminga falling on him being the event that. That seemed to exacerbate it and make it worse. And even when he comes back, he seems kind of trepidatious a little bit to start going full strength again. And that's what's distinct that that is where I've crossed the Rubicon of, like, I just don't have any faith that he's going to be able to stay healthy for any prolonged period of time. So, yes, AD just equally undurable almost, but in a way that I don't have the same, like, lack of hope. Does that make any sense?
- [44:59]
Chris Ryan
Sure.
- [45:00]
Michael Pina
But again, also pre existing chemistry with LeBron James and they won a championship together. That should also be thrown in there
- [45:06]
Zach Lowe
before we take a break. I do think that's important to note because there was all this murmuring of, like, you know, Cleveland is now left. No one is left in the lurch. Like, LeBron made a choice and all these teams knew that they were. You know, there were a number of other places he might go and that they were likely to not get him. But there was all this stuff about how, you know, is, does Clutch want Golden State to get Anthony Davis to have any shot at LeBron James? Or rumblings like, does Cleveland need to go get Kyrie irving to get LeBron James? Like, I may. Just speaking for myself and the calls and texts I've made over the last month, I haven't really heard Any of that. I don't think. Like, I think AD May have been floated, like, tentatively, very early in the process to maybe one team, and that's it. And I don't think there were any talks about it at all, any substantive trade talks. I don't think I. You know, Sean's reported a couple days ago that there's no other dominoes here. LeBron's not waiting for any other dominoes. I think that was true, and I think that's actually been true for quite a while. And I just wanted to, like, make sure that I mentioned that.
- [46:11]
Sponsor Announcer
Now.
- [46:11]
Zach Lowe
Who knows what will happen between now and then? All right, I have a couple other. I have a couple other general takes to throw at you guys. Let's take a quick break first. Okay, here are some thoughts. Slash takes, slash scorchers I've seen going around the Internet since LeBron signed with the Sixers today. And I want to bounce them off of you. Take number one. And this was like, almost a pre take. Like, Brian Windhorst said this on TV and Howard Beck said it on my podcast. Take number one. It just feels weird to have LeBron on the Philadelphia 76ers in a way that is just somehow off putting. Chris Ryan. Agree, disagree.
- [46:50]
Chris Ryan
What are your thoughts? I assure you it's not off putting.
- [46:54]
Zach Lowe
Michael Pina, maybe a less biased source. Michael Pina.
- [46:59]
Michael Pina
I mean, you've got the greatest career in the history of the NBA, almost inarguably going to one of the most dysfunctional, at times laughable organizations in a decade. And I just think that that uncalled.
- [47:18]
Zach Lowe
This is just
- [47:23]
Michael Pina
so. I think that that incongruence is pretty. It's pretty interesting.
- [47:28]
Chris Ryan
I think that they. I don't. I don't think that this was among the top 10 reasons that he joined the team. But historically, the Sixers are a very important franchise in NBA history and have been the home of the great, great NBA players.
- [47:42]
Zach Lowe
I'm on the right side of history of this because when Howard. Howard said this on my podcast when I was in Vegas. So a couple weeks ago, whenever that was, right after Wendy had said something to the effect of the vibes would just feel off. And I get why he's saying that. It's like we started the podcast with, like, I'm looking right now at an image of him in a Sixers Jersey with number 23. Like, that's just fucking weird. I can't believe this is happening. It's 20. It's 20, 26. The guy's still playing, and he's going to play for the 76ers. But I said this to Howard. People can have any opinion they want about LeBron and this and that. Whatever it is he has done his whole career his way and not adhering to anything, any traditional conception of what a superstar career is supposed to be. So he's not a one team guy. In fact, not only is he not a one team guy, he leaves his hometown team in the most destructive, infuriating way possible in the decision to go to the Miami Heat with his buddies. He wins two championships there. He then leaves his buddies in Miami to go back to Cleveland. He then wins a championship there and goes to Los Angeles. Why? Because he wants to play with Brandon Ingram and Lonzo Ball and Josh Hart and all those that no, he just was like, I want to go to Los Angeles. Maybe we'll get Anthony Davis, maybe we won't. I want to be an entertainment mogul. I want to go to la. This kind of fits with his. I'm going to do things my way because I am the game, I am the sport. I can do whatever I want. I'm either the greatest or second greatest player of all time. I think it'd be kind of cool to go to Philadelphia, play with a young player who's represented by my agency, who I already have a good relationship with, who I think is one of the next great stewards of the NBA and Tyrese Maxey, play for a franchise that, as Chris said, is historically really significant in the NBA but has not quite been able to get out of its own way in the last 10 years, 15 years, whatever. Try to bring some stability, play with some players he respects and likes. I think. I think this is in keeping with LeBron's career and does not feel that weird to me. Okay, take number two. Are you ready, Chris Ryan?
- [49:41]
Chris Ryan
Sure.
- [49:42]
Zach Lowe
This is from. And you've seen this all around the Internet. This is the one that happened to caught my eye from a guy named Mark Schenkowski, who's an anchor covering the Bulls in Chicago. He used to do Stacey King's podcast with Stacy, the late great Stacy King. And he retweets the shams tweet about the signing and says the king of ring chasing is at it again. Teaming up with three other teaming up with three other all Stars in Philly in a desperate attempt to get a fifth championship and make his resume look better next to Jordan. Chris. I wish, man.
- [50:14]
Chris Ryan
I wish that would. That would suggest that there are some rings here other than my wedding ring. There's no rings Go on, Michael.
- [50:25]
Zach Lowe
Peanut.
- [50:26]
Michael Pina
No, I think that this is like one of the, I wrote this. This is like one of the more challenging uphills, battle situations he could have possibly landed in. So I don't, I don't think he's ring chasing at all. No.
- [50:37]
Chris Ryan
If you think about like, look there. There's an era of LeBron's career. The legm. The, like everything is, is a chess game in that clutch is usurping the NBA power base to maneuver personnel around for him. I think he might have just been like, I think I want to play in Philly. Like it. Sometimes life's not that much more complicated than that. And like you said Zach, like, I don't think, I think he was like, let's see if it works.
- [51:04]
Michael Pina
It's.
- [51:04]
Chris Ryan
It's 4 mil a year. Like we can, we could all walk away, stay friends if we want to. Like, if, if, if LeBron's like, it turns out I don't want to do this in January and retires. Like, is that any more surprising than signing with Philly in the first place? Like, I think that there's a little bit of a, like, let's see what happens to this.
- [51:24]
Zach Lowe
This is not ring chasing. And even if it were, I don't even think it's possible to be a ring chaser when you're almost 42 years old. I think that you're upright and playing quality NBA basketball. Go do whatever the hell you want. He's got four championship. I think he's chasing a ring. The other thing is what then, what would gone. Going to Cleveland have been? Is that just. Is it because it's home? It's not ring chasing.
- [51:46]
Chris Ryan
It would have been like a kind of sentimental ending to a documentary. So, so going to Golden State would have been like the biggest blockbuster ticket the NBA had had. But they would. Speaking of depth problems, those guys would have been like, they would have been like panting for air. Like that's not late. Like they, they wouldn't have been able to put together a great team with LeBron.
- [52:05]
Zach Lowe
Golden State was dead on arrival, too old, too injured. Now they're really dead on arrival with I think some significant downside risk built into this particular team, which I think they know. I expect Draymond will come back. It's again Friday at 4:50. He might come back by the time you listen to this. I would, My guess is I wouldn't be surprised for a one year deal with the same amount that he just opted out for. But they're not going anywhere and they Know that a Sol Landerberg looked awesome in. In summer league. That's great. But my point is like Cleveland, you could literally rewrite that same tweet about playing with three all Stars and it would apply to the Cavaliers, except it's home. So it's home. The Heat, he'd be going with Bam and Giannis. Is that ring chasing or is that just going to the Heat? Like, I don't understand the difference is just the location and the fact that he's played there before. I. And he can chase rings if he wants to. He's. He's earned. He's earned the right. Okay, take three. Is this the best starting five in the NBA? And I will give you the other candidates and maybe I've missed one. Oklahoma City, I have put in just for now. Shea Kayson, Wallace, J Dub, Chet Holmgren, Isaiah Hardenstein, San Antonio. Dearon Fox, Devin Vassell, Julian Champagne, Steph Castle, Victor W. But Tobias Harris could slide in there. That's been like a little bit of an untold thing. Anything with Wemby's got to be in there.
- [53:25]
Chris Ryan
Dylan Harper. Bench material is still hard to understand.
- [53:29]
Zach Lowe
Still there. Denver, Jamal Murray, Christian Brown, Cam Johnson, Aaron Gordon, Nicole Jokic, maybe Peyton Watson takes a spot. The Knicks, their starting five just won the NBA championship with some of the most beautiful basketball you'll see. That lineup has had an up and down history, actually, but I think the playoffs, they just destroyed everybody. Cleveland, Donovan, Mitchell, James Harden, either Max Struse or Jalen Tyson, Evan Mobley, Jared Allen, Houston. I put in just to be, you know, just to be a completist. Fred Van Vliet, Amen Thompson, Kevin Durant, Jabari Smith, Junior Alper and Shen Goon. And then I think that, that basically I guess you get to do. Should I throw in Boston just to round out the Jalen Brown trade? Peyton Pritchard, Derek White, Jason Tatum, Paul George, Mitchell Robinson. Is this the best starting five in the NBA? Philadelphia.
- [54:19]
Chris Ryan
No, it's not. I can't. I can't say that it's the best starting five after the Knicks just won the championship. The. The Thunder have done what they've done and the spurs look the way they looked and have improved. So no, I don't think so. And I just, you know, there's just too many question marks to make grand proclamations like that.
- [54:37]
Michael Pina
For me also, the Pistons just added John Collins. So
- [54:43]
Zach Lowe
turning into like a John Collins. You know what?
- [54:45]
Michael Pina
I love John Collins.
- [54:47]
Zach Lowe
I love him. It doesn't seem like it. Okay, I liked. I Think, John. I think the Pistons had a better offseason than people are giving them credit for, and they're going to win a lot of games. Assuming Jalen Duran is back, given some
- [54:58]
Chris Ryan
of the things that Bill said about Caleb Wilson yesterday, are we sure we're counting out the Bulls too easily?
- [55:02]
Zach Lowe
Look, I was driving in my car.
- [55:04]
Michael Pina
Talk about a no comment right there.
- [55:06]
Zach Lowe
I was driving in my car and I was listening to the podcast and thank God I turned it on after I dropped my daughter and her friends off at swim practice so that they didn't hear about how he'd have no sperm left if he were a Bulls fan and there would just be ejaculate everywhere. Imagine if one of my daughter's friends went back to her parents, was like, hey, Mommy. Mr. Lowe was like listening to this thing in the car where somebody was talking. What sperm? Like, it just. It could have ruined my whole life.
- [55:35]
Chris Ryan
I think that guy probably would have. The dad probably would have been like, he was. She. He was just. Listen, Bill's pod. It's a big deal.
- [55:42]
Zach Lowe
I think. I think I'd go Oklahoma City and the Knicks starting fives over Philly. A couple
- [55:50]
Michael Pina
Spurs.
- [55:52]
Zach Lowe
I get. Yeah, I did. I mean, we did. Everyone just did finish a month of on de' Aaron Fox. It's worth noting, right, if we're going to talk about the Spurs 35. But yeah, there they should be in there. A quick note. Another thing that I. I was going through, like all the reasons why this could be a maybe not quite as difficult day. There's only one ball thing on offense. I don't know if this is health, if this is career evolution, if this is whatever. But I looked this up during the season and I refresh my memory today. Embiid post ups down to 7.9 per 100 possessions last year. That's the lowest number of his career. And in his MVP years, it was up at like 15 year. His MVP caliber years, it was up to 15 or 16 per 100 possessions. And I remember looking that up late in the season. Cause I was like, man, it feels like they're just not throwing it to him as much. And I don't really know why that is other than obviously he was coming back from injuries and probably testing his body out. But it does speak to the possibility of a slightly revamped identity for what he does on offense. I just don't know like, what that endpoint looks like in terms of, you know, he's just not a good enough jump shooter to evolve into. He's just a spacer on the perimeter now, so. But I thought that was notable.
- [57:09]
Chris Ryan
One of the big things that I think will be interesting is to see that how contagious LeBron's general like Ball finds energy. Kind of like let's, let's move this thing around offensive identity is and you know, Embiid for several years like the Sixers sort of go to offensive set was throw down to Embiid and wait for a double and see if he can make the right pass and make it fast enough. And is he going to even be seen that many doubles like, I mean, I mean you double and Embiid when LeBron and Jalen Brown and and Tyrese
- [57:42]
Michael Pina
Maxey are out there to that point. I was having a conversation about the Sixers before LeBron chose them. And if my defensive strategy against this team would be to never double anybody because I don't want them to pass, I would love a bunch of one on one isolation basketball. And I wonder if that is how teams will approach guarding them this year. But, but no, that, that, yeah, that's a great point, Chris.
- [58:05]
Zach Lowe
That's interesting because you know, I mean it. They'll find the weakest matchup then if you want to play them that way and, and, and they will run a pick and roll and try to exploit it, which is fine. They can do that. LeBron is obviously a bulldozer in the post. Jaylen Brown can be too. And it's just, it speaks to the. The Embiid is the ultimate wild card in the NBA because for the week he was healthy against Boston, he just like that third quarter of whatever game that was in Boston when he just woke up and was like, oh, I'll just put Nemi Esqueda and Luka Garza and Nicola Vucevic in the basket over and over again. And it was like, holy. Yeah, I remember, I remember this guy and he just can't last that way. But it was a reminder like that's like when you talk about not doubling Embiid that that's what used to happen where you didn't double Embiid unless you had like Mitchell Robinson or you know, is there anyone else really that belongs on that list? That's what would happen. He would just back you into the basket and you'd foul him or he'd dunk and it was like a little shacky in that way where there was just nothing you could do with Prime Shaq. So I, look, I wouldn't mind throwing it to him. And if you do double him they have brilliant cutters, passers, shooters all over the floor. But yeah, to your point, Michael, I don't. I don't know if he merits that, but for a week against Boston, he certainly did because he just beat the shit out of everyone they had. Um, but they'll play bully ball. They'll find ways, they'll run inverted pick and rolls and all that. I. I don't think offense. I don't know. I might be being naive. A Jalen Brown might go there and be like, this, this sucks. I want it to be the number one option. And now like, wow, VJ had 25 tonight, so I was like the fifth option for six minutes. I. I don't know. But.
- [59:44]
Chris Ryan
So this is what I wanted to ask you guys because you've probably spent more time around the Celtics, obviously than I have, but over than many people. And you have covered LeBron more closely over the years and, and are more famil how things work on his teams. Do you think that these guys are going to get along in a basketball sense? Like, Michael obviously, like, suggested, like, Jalen wanted to go to his own team and initially here with Embiid, kind of like a halftime player. Jalen gets like two really feisty, fun guards and is. Is given this sort of like, open canvas and LeBron complicates that. But, like, personality wise, do you think there's a mesh here? Do you think Nick Nurse's particular coaching style meshes with these guys? Like, beyond the X's and O's, it's almost like, do you think there's emotional chemistry?
- [60:35]
Zach Lowe
I think that will take time to build. And there's a world where it doesn't. It doesn't like someone in the league with another team was just as everyone was in Vegas was sort of spitballing, like, hey, what do you think the best fit is? The worst fit? Where do you think he's going to go? I was like, I don't really look, I don't think there's a great, great answer to the, like, there's not an A other than, like, Minnesota, which was tailor made and he was never going to do that. And I remember getting to Philly and I was like, you know, I just. I don't know how he's going to love playing with Jaylen Brown or Joel Embiid if that. If that's going to be like, as easy as. So I defaulted to Cleveland being like, imperfect. Everything imperfect. I'll default to going home and having the homecoming. So I do think there's something to that and everyone is going to have to sacrifice. And you hope that a Nick Nurse is an elite coach. And baby, just the rigors of the regular season. And tonight this guy sits. And tonight that guy sits. Kind of eases their way into the playoffs and they have a. You know, I mean, I said this with Bill, like the, the Knicks as recently as January and February were like an unhappy, frustrated, internal, internal crisis kind of team. And then they just like won the championship. So you just don't know how these things are going to work.
- [61:45]
Chris Ryan
Yeah, and the spurs were like the feel good story of the year. And that. It was just like Dylan Harper wants to start, you know, like, I mean, it. Things change really quickly. I was, I was just, you know, I hear so many stories about JALEN this or LeBron's like that when you're playing with him. And like, we'll see. I mean, like, it's any professional environment, but LeBron's in his 40s, you know, like, I, I wonder if he's like, this isn't about making a subtweet about getting a shooter, you know, this is. I'm gonna see how it goes.
- [62:14]
Zach Lowe
And you know, look, it was, it wasn't a huge sample, but the way he actually bought in, he didn't pay lip service to it and then do something different for 25, 30 games, whatever it was, he bought into being the third option around Luka and Austin Reaves and became like the apex version of that kind of player. That's proof of concept to me that he can do it and that he's willing to do it and he understands that in order to win he might have to do it. And I think the same applies here. I don't know, Michael, if you're more optimistic, less optimistic, I think offensively it'll be fine, but there could be. The ego thing is going to be there, I think.
- [62:50]
Michael Pina
I don't disagree that LeBron can make it work if he wants to. I'm just interested because, you know, comparing it to Luka is fascinating because Luka is, you know, he is this prodigious talent who, when he has the ball in his hands, he is elite offense unto himself. And he makes every. He can see every read, he makes all the right passes, etc. It's just a completely different level of offensive player than Jaylen Brown. And I wonder. I'm not saying it can't work, of course I think it, it sure very well may, and I would bet that it will. But I just, you know, Jaylen Brown is Like, I'm going to dribble like eight times and take this contested fall away, and if it doesn't go in the next time down the court, I'm going to try the same exact thing. So I just, I wonder how that is going to play out. If he is stubborn in his ways against again, single coverage. And I think that that is something I always go back to with Jalen Brown, Eric Spoelstra putting in the 2024 playoffs in the first round, put Gamma bio on Jason Tatum and he put Tyler Herron on Jaylen Brown. And the whole thing was like, I want Jaylen Brown to go off, do what you want to do, take as many shots as you want, because you will disrupt that team's offense. And so I just, I'm just so curious to see how it all plays out and the degree to which Jalen is willing to taper his game at this point in his career, coming off a season where he's like, I should win MVP is going to be really fast. Like, him averaging like, you know, 16 points a game is just really hard to, to fathom. So it'll be, it is an exaggeration, but like the, the, the, the. There will be sacrifice for sure. Like his usage rate is not going to be 33, you know, so I just think it'll be, it'll be an interesting situation.
- [64:51]
Zach Lowe
In the two years before this one, he averaged 22 and 22.2 and 23 points a game. That feels realistic. Guess what? He made the All Star team both years. Like you're going to get recognized for all this. But is. I remember SPO trying to bait him like that in that playoff series. There was also the famous game where the warriors put Draymond Green on him and just didn't guard him at all and just dared him, treated him like he was Andre Roberson in the corner and it's like, let's just mess with his way. It's interesting.
- [65:18]
Michael Pina
He's like, Celtics won that game by like five points or something.
- [65:22]
Zach Lowe
And they, they beat the Heat quite easily in the playoffs after losing the first game. I think it is interesting how he's been the, the target of some mind games like that. A couple other final thoughts on this. We've talked about the east and the east beefing up and Kawhi probably coming east, giannis staying east, LeBron now coming east. And although there we could. You know, a lot of the east teams have kind of stood still. They haven't necessarily gotten worse. The Pacers are going to be back as a. As a real team again. It just struck me like, we could see LeBron play the Cavs in the playoffs. It's never happened before. It didn't happen when he was on Miami, and he only played the Heat once, and it was in the bubble when he was with the Lakers in the finals. So, like, I think we deserve. We deserve. We deserve as basketball Fans, like, real LeBron rivalry with one of his past teams, playoff series, and it's in Play. Imagine, like, LeBron against the Heat with Giannis and Bam. Or LeBron going back to Cleveland after spurning them again. Like, this would be awesome theater.
- [66:23]
Michael Pina
Zach, who is the Christmas Day opponent for the Sixers? And question to you.
- [66:28]
Zach Lowe
I'm so. I'm so relieved for Adam Silver that they can make the schedule now.
- [66:32]
Chris Ryan
Do you. I mean, do you think they send LeBron to Cleveland on Christmas Day?
- [66:35]
Zach Lowe
It's. No, it's got to be. I think it's still got to be Boston. I think Philly. Boston. Well, you know what? It's LeBron. You're right. It can't. Miami is not. I don't think Miami has the emotional heft.
- [66:46]
Michael Pina
Yeah, I don't.
- [66:47]
Chris Ryan
I. I'm sure there are Heat fans who feel otherwise, but I don't. I saw when Pat Riley did the. The. The Bam and Giannis press conference, and he was like, we got one more out there. And I was like, I don't think so, man. Like, it just doesn't feel like that's. That's where he wanted to go, if he wanted to go there, it was like, a. Plenty of time to make that decision. I think that beyond even, like, the LeBron, where does LeBron wind up? Like, what. What rivalry games is LeBron playing in? The more you talk about the Eastern Conference, the more I'm like, every single night there is going to be an incredible storyline. Like, whether it's a great young player that you want to watch or tracking the Pacers trying to get back to what they had two years ago, or these new situations for Giannis and LeBron and whether or not the Pistons. I mean, I don't. Where. Where is Jalen Duran now? Like, like, like, how many more?
- [67:34]
Zach Lowe
Like, what is his physical location currently?
- [67:36]
Chris Ryan
Like, where. Like, where is his contract status? Is he a Pistons player still?
- [67:41]
Zach Lowe
Yes, He's a restrictive agent. He'll be.
- [67:42]
Sponsor Announcer 2
He'll.
- [67:43]
Zach Lowe
I would be absolutely blown away if he was not a Piston next year.
- [67:46]
Chris Ryan
You know, the Sean Sweeney effect on Orlando, do they become a little bit more dangerous? The Charlotte is there, like, Ewing theory with Lamelo. Like, yeah, it's going to be exciting almost every single night.
- [68:00]
Zach Lowe
And there's a lot of trade stuff still to happen. Yeah, to me, like pre LeBron, Boston Philly was like the no brainer Christmas game because of the Jalen Brown trade and the resulting animus and all that. I just. They are division rivals. The game is if you could somehow not have Philly and Boston play until Christmas, which is hard because they play four times a year and then backload the schedule and have that be the first Jalen Brown versus Boston game. And it's LeBron and it's LeBron versus the Celtics. Who's his old nemesis. I think that's still the game. Other than that, LeBron at Cleveland would be a lot of fun too. Any final thoughts on this, guys? Anything we didn't hit?
- [68:38]
Chris Ryan
It's weird to be in the eye of the storm. It's very, I mean, like, for, for 15 years, like, I think the Sixers have been the, the kind of object of fascination of like real NBA heads because it's like, is this going to work? And the controversy over the process and obviously like Colangelo and there's always just been this kind of comic tragedy to the way the team has been operating. And you know, our buddies at the rights to Ricky Sanchez are just kind of like chronicling this multiple times a week. And it's just like, is this Sisyphusian task to kind of cheer for this team, have the same result in the same round of the playoffs? And so to be here and just be like, somebody chose us, somebody wants to be a part of this is just really like mind altering. So I'm going to enjoy it while it lasts until the first sort of like, are we sure this is working?
- [69:28]
Zach Lowe
Happens more likely that they lose in the first round or win the championship.
- [69:33]
Chris Ryan
Win the championship.
- [69:35]
Zach Lowe
Okay. Pina.
- [69:36]
Michael Pina
More. Wow. Okay. I got to go with losing the first round, more likely.
- [69:41]
Zach Lowe
But I would too.
- [69:43]
Michael Pina
I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
- [69:44]
Zach Lowe
But that doesn't necessarily mean they haven't aimed in the right direction. That's just the nature of the Eastern Conference. They're more likely to win the championship. Championship than they were before. By the way, you're wearing a Phillies hat. Can I just tell you one of my. One of the things I've learned in my return to baseball the last two years? I don't mean this in the true sense of the word hate. It's more respect and fear if I never see Kyle Schwaber bat against the Mets. Again, that'll be fucking fine with me. It seems like he hits a home run every single time. And then I look at his stats. He's like, oh, yeah, he has 9,000 home runs and nine. Like, does he. He's just incredible. Every time they play the Mets, even the outs are like warning tracks. I can't even watch. Wendy's up.
- [70:25]
Chris Ryan
I have seen the Phillies multiple times this summer in other stadiums other than Philadelphia and they have lost every game and Schwarber has like barely made contact. And so it's just been this, this surreal experience of every time I check in, it's like, oh, you hit two dingers today. So I'm glad. I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm glad that he is, he is hurting you, Zach. I'm sorry.
- [70:44]
Zach Lowe
My 11 year old, my 11 year old daughter is like, there's that Schwaber with his beard again. This is bad news for us. I'm like, yeah, it is. All right, Michael Pina, you already wrote a col on theringer.com about LeBron. We'll have a lot more off season content. There's not much offseason left to go. Chris Ryan, you are everywhere. What was the latest thing you've done and what do you, what do we should look out for early next week?
- [71:05]
Chris Ryan
Well, tomorrow we are doing, I think, I think we tweeted this out. We are doing Obsession live on Netflix on the Rewatchables. So 2026 movie and very excited and some might say that I made a wish that came true today.
- [71:24]
Zach Lowe
Is that the fastest rewatchables turnaround in rewatchables history?
- [71:27]
Chris Ryan
No, we did Top Gun Maverick. I think while it was still in theaters.
- [71:31]
Zach Lowe
I still haven't seen Top Gun Maverick.
- [71:32]
Chris Ryan
Yeah.
- [71:32]
Michael Pina
God bless you guys. I cannot wait to see that. That is going to be amazing.
- [71:36]
Zach Lowe
All right, thank you guys for circling the wagons on Friday. Enjoy the weekend, enjoy the show tomorrow, Chris, and we'll see you guys soon. All right, that's it for today's edition of the Zach Lowe Show. Thank you to Chris Ryan. Thank you to Michael Pina for scrambling and getting on the show today. Thanks as always to Mike, Billy and Jonathan on production and thanks to you all for listening to and or watching the Zach Lowe Show. We'll be back later this week. Hopefully some more stuff happens in the NBA before we all leave for a well deserved vacation. Thank you all for listening. 21 are over and president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President, D.C. kentucky or Wyoming gambling problem, call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincut or is it mdgamblinghelp.org and Maryland Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24 Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.