← The Zach Lowe Show
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- [00:00]
Zach Lowe
This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Apple Card members can earn unlimited daily cash back on everyday purchases wherever they shop. This means you could be earning daily cash on just about anything, like a slice of pizza from your local pizza place or a latte from the corner coffee shop. Apply for Apple Card in the Wallet app to see your credit limit offer in minutes subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch terms and more@applecard.com Foreign. Loaded Episode Mo Tequil is here to talk all the latest in the NBA Jalen Williams is back. How scary do the Thunder look all of a sudden? Fully healthy? AJ Mitchell be back from suspension soon. They'll have everyone they need. Detroit ended the Lakers win streak. Detroit hasn't lost without Kate Cunningham. What should we read into that? What about the Lakers? How far can they actually get to in the playoffs? MVP Wemby Jokic, Shay Luka A historic top four. How should we order it? Mo and I get into all of that plus the mess that is the Eastern Conference. Not in terms of quality, just in terms of how close everybody is from Toronto at 5 to Charlotte at 10. Which of those teams is actually scary? Should any of the top four care who they play in the first round? How would we rank the top four? Detroit, Boston, New York, Cleveland in terms of chances of getting to the finals? We look at the race for the two seed and the three seed and whether Cleveland is sort of locked in or wants to be locked in.
- [01:26]
Mo DeKil
A lot to talk about.
- [01:27]
Zach Lowe
And then we pick our all rookie teams. Always fun. We shine a light on some of the players who maybe even won't make an all rookie team. But it's worth talking about. AKA the Brooklyn Nets. And then Tate Frazier, the one and only, is here to teach me the college basketball idiot what to watch for in the sweet 16, which is coming up. Go St. John's that's all coming up on the Zach Lowe Show. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by FanDuel. Things are really heating up on the court and FanDuel is the best place to bet on all the epic matchups during the NBA season. Build a same game parlay for a shot at a bigger payout or try live betting and jump into the action after tip off. And don't forget, with FanDuel you get paid instantly when you win. Download the FanDuel Sportsbook app now and play your game 21 over in President of Select States 18 or over in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatinceneticut. Welcome to the Zach Lowe Show. Mo decil is up early and we've got a lot to talk about as the NBA enters. Stretch run players are returning from injury. Winning streaks and losing streaks are snapped across the league. Mo, good morning and how are you?
- [02:49]
Mo DeKil
I'm doing great. Happy to get up anytime when I'm going to get up. And I know I'm going to talk hoops with you. Always excited.
- [02:55]
Zach Lowe
Are you happy that UCLA was eliminated from the tournament?
- [02:59]
Mo DeKil
Yeah. I mean, there's no more joy.
- [03:01]
Zach Lowe
Are you raising your voice to me, Mo? Are you raising your voice? Yeah. You are? Yeah. You are raising your voice.
- [03:07]
Mo DeKil
I'd happily raise my voice at that frog coach. The best part was in his post game press conference asking for another $5 million in nil. I'm like, okay,
- [03:19]
Zach Lowe
okay, enough college basketball talk. Tate Frazier is going to come out and teach me about college basketball. Let's go through the headlines. Jalen Williams returned last night to the Oklahoma City Thunder after a prolonged hamstring injury recovery period. His second hamstring injury, same hamstring both times. Started the season recovering from a wrist injury. Kind of again been a lost season for him. And yet the Thunder are still three games ahead of the spurs, who just don't lose very many basketball games anymore, have won 12 games in a row, have the number one seed. Not quite on lock because their schedule stuff, but certainly have the inside track to home court throughout the NBA playoffs. I thought J Dub looked great, like maybe a little deferential as a passer and that's not uncommon for guys easing their way into the rotation. 18 points, six assists, solid defense. Looked a lot like J Dub to me again against a broken the Zombie Sixers team with no embiid, no pg, no maxi, on and on. And it was the full squad for Oklahoma City for the most part. They had their intact starting five with Hartenstein and Holmgren and J Dub along with Dort and SGA. They had the full bench. Jared McCain had a nice little revenge first game, first half back in Philly. Got it. Got a lot of cheers from the crowd. Had to have been an awkward moment for Nick Nurse and Daryl Morey. Whoopsie do. And it was just a reminder that when you see their full squad, I mean I picked them to win the title at the beginning of the season. I think probably more than half of media pundits did. And you see their full squad now with McCain and you're just like, they just have so many options. It's crazy. And you watch these lineups they put out. Like at one point, I just made note, they put out Shea, McCain, Caruso, Dort and Holmgren. Like, wow, that's. Don't think I've seen that one all year. That's an awesome, awesome lineup. And then you throw this guy in and here comes Case and Wallace, Isaiah, Joe, Aaron Wiggins is like, do we even need Aaron Wiggins anymore? It's just, I think they're about to remind us why Oklahoma City versus the field and Oklahoma City versus 70 wins was a talking point three months ago. Because, Jade, I thought J Dub looked like A plus, didn't miss a beat.
- [05:23]
Mo DeKil
Yeah, no, I think it was really fun.
- [05:25]
Zach Lowe
Fun to watch him.
- [05:26]
Mo DeKil
And it was his first play, like his first basket, I should say that he got where it was. Chet drives along one side of the court, draws attention and rot defense, rotates, kicks it out to J Dub and he gets it, he pass fix and then realizes, oh, I have a driving lane. And then just drives right down and gets an easy layup. And then there were a bunch of things where it's like, as the game went on, you felt him get even more and more comfortable in it. Of like, yeah, this is what I used to do. This is the things that, this is how I play. This is the way we work and all those things. It was the, the dunk he had off the Hartenstein, offensive rebound and drop off pass to him and things like that. Like, he looked so smooth and just, I mean, obviously he fits right in. I felt like he fit better now than he did even in the beginning of the season when he first came back from the wrist injury and things like that. Obviously he was dealing with the shooting, problems with his wrist, but it also just didn't look like he knew where he fit with the team. Whereas now he's come in and it's like rolling along just perfect. And I thought that was great. And that's a troubling sign for everybody else in the NBA because this is just his first game back. Like as he gets more games under him, gets more comfortable, gets knocked some of that rust off, a couple of his shots, fell short. I feel like you're going to see it come in that way. And then when you talk about their roster, no holes, Zach, like when you just look at it, I mean, there's going to be little things and small things that teams will try to pick at, but there's just no real hole that you're really concerned about when you look at the Thunder. And that's the thing that's really going to be frightening as we get into the playoffs.
- [07:02]
Zach Lowe
A couple of things on J Dub, you know, he just makes them a bigger team. And it's funny because they've played a lot of lineups since he's been injured most of the year with four guards. Except they don't even play out like four guard lineups because Dort is like. I don't even know what Dort is. Positionally, he's just a Dort. Caruso is a Caruso. Like, is he a center? Is he a guard? Just like, what the hell is he? But they get a little bigger and a little rangier. He is just a force. J Dub in transition, which just elevates the best part of their offense to an even higher level. And the other thing that I would like to see in the last 10 games is let's use Jdub now. We know now that. But they didn't even have AJ Mitchell last night because the suspension. And we know when. When Shay sits. Now they are overflowing with offensive talent to carry to make sure the offense doesn't fall off a cliff. AJ Mitchell, J Dub, 1 of Chet or Hartenstein, pick whoever else you want to put out there. That's enough. Like, they're. They should be able to beat second units with that group. But when the two stars, Shay and J Dub are on the floor together, I would like them to lean in just a little bit more to like, let's have some sets where J Dub brings it up and Shay starts in the corner, comes off a pin down and we get him the ball with a little bit of a head start. So it's not static every time. And it hasn't mattered that it's static. A Shay is so goddamn good. But that's one little sliver, a little lever of their offense that I would like to see them pull now that J Dub, their second best ball handler by a lot, is back.
- [08:33]
Mo DeKil
Yeah, and I think that's something we'll probably see more of heading into it. Look, you know, for most of the season last year, we didn't see a ton of the J Dub shape, pick and roll. And then when they needed it most, they pulled it out. Right. Like there's going to be. There's. I don't think this is something that we're. I think we'll see it at some point. I just don't know when and it might be okay. We need to start going to it more. I would like to see it now because I want, just for my own personal pleasure of it. But two, I think it helps that everybody else kind of understands the sets a little bit more and gets kind of understanding of cool when Shay gets it this way. I'm going to space here or I'm going to, you know, I'm going to rotate from, you know, the block to circle up or whatnot and things like that. I think there's small things that helps kind of everybody else when the action is. Even though it's set up to get Shea more breathing room and more space.
- [09:25]
Tate Frazier
How do you react to it?
- [09:26]
Mo DeKil
How do you respond to it? I think there's a lot of fun stuff that they can do with, and there are times where I get frustrated with the offense because I don't feel like they're doing all the stuff they can do. But at the same time, Zach, sometimes they just don't need to do it or they don't need to go to it. They're cooking, and it's hard to really kind of look at it and say, like, all right, we need them to do this. But I think we'll see more of that stuff in the playoffs. When teams start kind of dialing in defensively, they're like, cool, we're going to throw another wrinkle at you. And that's the beauty of what the Thunder have, is they have a lot more wrinkles that they could throw at you over and over again. And with their lineup versatility, you know, why the.
- [10:04]
Zach Lowe
The. The predictability or whatever doesn't matter because SGA is shooting 55% from the floor. I mean, it's an insane number. The other thing about J Dub, and there's a little bit of a Tatum parallel, even though their injuries are completely different, is, you know, they're reintegrating very late in the season, but both of them have enormous levels of continuity with all the players around them. So there's like, this is familiar. We know how to do this. Yeah, it's going to be maybe a little different in Tatum's case, with Jaylen Brown having ascended to maybe fifth in the MVP race. We'll get to that in a second, but we know how to do this. And like, J Dub does not have the wear and tear of playing. You know, he wouldn't have played 82 games the way the Thunder have paced the season, but, you know, there's 55 games he didn't play, and he's probably fresh as a daisy coming into the playoff Shout, like shout out of a cannon. And I think that has some benefits to it too. We'll see if they wrap the number one seed, but to me they are still, despite going one and four against the Spurs. Did you see Wemby's post game press conference last night when he very much reminded everyone that The spurs are 4 and 1 against the Thunder? And I think he's. Did he say we dominated them three times with their real team? Something like that.
- [11:11]
Mo DeKil
Something along those lines. He definitely made a note of like this is. They had their three guys. I love it. It was great. It was a great press conference.
- [11:21]
Zach Lowe
So great. I really just, I love everything about it. He's just like, oh, is this bulletin board material? I don't care. How about I rip the fucking bulletin board off the wall? How about that? What was I going to say about Thunder? I still think they're big favorites. Is tough, but favorites for sure. I would, I would not hesitate to pick them to win the championship. And again, like, it feels still very new for the Thunder. They're still quite a young team. They're unbelievably polished given how young they are. And we may look back at the end of this Thunder era, if it ever ends, when it ever ends, and say this version of the team 2026 is the deepest and most complete version that they ever had because of all the salary constraints that are coming to hit them a little bit and the moves they're going to have to make. They are just top to bottom. It's really unbelievable how deep and how good they are now that everybody is back. Wait till Mitchell comes back from the suspension. McCain is. McCain has earned his way into like he's definitely going to play in the playoffs. This looks so bad for the Sixers. Last night was a complete optic nightmare for them. Any other thoughts on the Thunder before? Oh, I want one guy. I want to shout out, I've done it before. It's too late. He hasn't put up the requisite numbers. Big Jalen Williams, center Jalen Williams is my like spiritual six man of the year. Not my actual six man of the year, but like the embodiment of I'm just having a blast. Everybody loves playing with me. I'm making no dip threes from the corner now. I had a couple 30 point games when everybody was out. I'm just, I'll do all the little stuff. You need me to set some screens. Want me to come out on a pick and roll and then sprint back and not get boxed out like a Lot of, A lot of defensive players, if they have to come out on a pick and roll, they give up. Inside position on the glass, he's sprinting back and knocking guys out of the way. I fucking love that dude. I'm so glad they paid him. And he is my spiritual six man of the year.
- [13:19]
Mo DeKil
That's a good call. I mean, he, he tends to make the big three at the right moment too. Right? Like a pivotal moment. Maybe the, the offense is sputtered for a little bit, or it's a possession that's dying down, or, you know, the defense has completely collapsed on Shea, shot clock winding down, and it finds its way to him, and right then and there, he just drills a monster three in. In the way he's going and then just what he does defensively. And even when they played the spurs, you know, he tries to get really physical with Wemby, tries to get up in Wemby and, and bump him and, and. And make his presence felt unknown. So I think it's, it's fun to watch. Like, it's fun. This is a. They're the villains. We've, we've had that whole storyline, but like, they're also kind of fun, like in the way these guys kind of come up. They're always ready to roll. It's pretty impressive. And you know, that run he had when everybody was out was like, damn,
- [14:10]
Zach Lowe
okay, he's going off. Headline number two, the Lakers winning streak is over and Detroit is three. And oh, since Cade Cunningham suffered a collapsed lung beating the Lakers in Detroit last night. Lakers no Rui Hachimura, no. Marcus Smart. They started Jake Laravia instead. I thought, you know, both. It was a free throw fest as Lakers and Pistons games tend to be Detroit, Dennis Jenkins and Jalen Duran carrying the show late in the game. Lakers came back and made it a game. I thought LA played fairly well, all things considered, given who was absent for them. I don't know, like, where are you on the Lakers? I've been saying all along I would still pick Denver over them in a playoff series. I would probably pick Minnesota over them in a playoff series. Although given how scattershot Randle in particular has been, that's like a 60, 40, 55, 45 pick for me. And San Antonio, despite the experience level, I just think qualitatively is just their athleticism and size is so overwhelming that it would take a heroic Luca series for that to be a Lakers win. And maybe Luka has that in him. And Oklahoma City is a different animal. You know, the Lakers used to play Oklahoma City pretty well by just being bigger and nastier than them. And they've. They've kind of veered. You know, the AD Luca trade is baked into that. They don't kind of have that over the Thunder anymore as much. Where are you on the Lakers? As like a house. How like, look, they. They're playing great. Lukas playing out of his mind. The MVP race is this borderline unprecedented top four. Like, I don't know that we've ever had four guys playing at this high A level in the same season at any point ever. But I still. They're like, if the matchups broke right and they stay healthy, by the way, LeBron is 41, they could get to the conference finals. It would I. That I would classify as like, a great outcome for them. I just can't see anything beyond that. Unless, like, Shay got hurt or like three of the Thunder players got hurt or Wemby got hurt or something like that.
- [16:15]
Mo DeKil
Yeah. So before the win streak, like, I had this team first round out, like, there didn't really have a lot of hope for them in the way that they were playing. And even though their defense had been better, I just hadn't really felt like there was a lot of promise there. I think I'm definitely picking them over Houston and then, you know, Minnesota, I think is closer to Atossa, but then everybody else between Denver, OKC and San Antonio. I'm taking those guys over the Lakers in that sense. And I think it comes down to just one. I think they struggle a lot with athleticism and fast, fast guards. Like, look what Danis Jenkins did yesterday, you know, and dropping 30 career high and just was blowing by them and getting big buckets down the stretch and he was getting good looks and things like that. I feel like they really struggle with that. And I know they didn't have Marcus Smart, I know they didn't have Ri hat more, but they've had those guys in other games. Like the Spurs, I feel like, are pretty comfortable playing against them, you know, with. With their athleticism and I feel like they can hand. They feel pretty good about their chances against them. Overall, though, I think they've done a great job finding their identity on both ends of the floor and really late in the season, understanding defensively how they want to play. Sometimes it's zone, sometimes it's. It's. We're going to play, man, but we're going to switch everything and we're going to be locked in and make sure we're doing this stuff. You have Luka really playing high level defense for him, which is something that I think we've, we've all kind of
- [17:44]
Zach Lowe
been wanting a couple more deflections and steals last night. Dove on the floor for that loose ball to save it from going out, out the sideline. He's been. And he was wincing for part of that game too. Like he landed, he went back to the locker room on point, something in his leg didn't feel great. And he still is out there doing that stuff.
- [18:00]
Mo DeKil
Yeah, you're getting all that stuff. LeBron kind of settling into being the third option. Like, I, I, I don't know if Bill brought it up on the podcast you had with him, but it stood out to me for sure. When the Lakers played the Rockets down the stretch and LeBron was off in the corner and I think KD rotated over on a, a pick and roll with luka driving and LeBron just cut straight from the corner. It was a lob play, was a huge possession in, in, in crunch time and things like that, like understanding those things and knowing how they can kind of work through all that stuff. Just having their identity kind of finally settled and figured out is a big way. Even DeAndre and who I'm not a fan of at all has really kind of come in and figure out his roles and where he's going to work and how he's going to operate.
- [18:46]
Zach Lowe
Like he's given his semiannual interview where he talks about how he's just, you know what? I don't need to be that guy. I can, I can be this. I just run the floor, set screenshots, dive to the rim. Which is followed a few months later by his semiannual. Like, they're trying to make me click capella that's coming in a few months. But enjoy this. These halcyon days of DeAndre Aiden realizing what he should be for the Lakers.
- [19:10]
Mo DeKil
Yeah, and I think, but I just think they figured out who they are, how to play.
- [19:14]
Zach Lowe
I say this all the time.
- [19:15]
Mo DeKil
JJ Redick runs great actions. Like when they're not just running straight, spamming ISO pick and roll. Like they run great stuff, you know, whether it's a horn set and getting LeBron on the empty side in a DHO action or things like that. Like they run a lot of good actions out of the gate. And I think just overall, like, I like the way they're positioned. At the end of the day, it's a talent thing, you know, and those other three teams are more talented.
- [19:42]
Zach Lowe
They've done a fantastic job. Canard has fit and sustained the fit so much better than I having seen him just get played out of rotations over and over again. Their defense has survived despite the fact that they're playing below average defenders at a lot of positions. And the unpredictability part of it is a big reason why even last night against Detroit, they decided, second half, we're going to switch everything. We're going to switch everything. Just take you out of rhythm. If we have to send double teams, we'll do that, but we're just going to take you out of rhythm. We're going to be unpredictable to play against. And LeBron, I mean, this is just. Was not rocket science that at age 41, whether it's this team, another team that he goes to next year, if he, if he continues to play, this is the perfect role for him. This is exactly what he should be. And he is the best qualified player ever to play this kind of roving threat. Third banana role. I've compared him to old man Jason Kidd, who I thought with Dallas invented a position where he was a point guard who didn't really even penetrate into the lane because he was just such a genius passer. And last night, a couple of plays that stood out like LeBron was on the right wing. Luka comes up from the left corner, takes one screen, takes a dribble handoff. LeBron's guy sinks in to help. Luka kicks it to LeBron. This is like he's had to do nothing on the possession but stand there. Luka has created the advantage for him and he has an alley to the basket and he just slams full speed into this gap. Help comes from the corner right next to LeBron. Kick to Reeves for a three, boom, done. That's all like. But he is. There is no player who is bigger, faster, stronger, smarter to do that exact thing in that exact moment. Similarly, like later in the game, he's handling the ball on the Pistons logo, basically, and I think it was Reeves cut back door. And he just threw this like 80 mile an hour fastball in stride. And like, that's old man Jason Kidd. That's the role I'm talking about. This is perfect for him. They've maximized everything about this team. I would be terrified to play against them in the playoffs just because Luka is terrifying. He's always been terrifying. And he's on this run now that is like, oh, boy, every time he shoots a step back three, it's like a horror show for the other team. The other thing he's figured out with Aiden. This is. This is like my favorite thing about Luka. He never, ever, in the era of pace and space and threes and all that stuff, has never forgotten the axiom of basketball that the dunk and the layup are the best shots and he never stops searching for them. And he and Aiden have developed this mind meld now where like, Luka will dribble and it's slow. He plays at his pace. He gets in the pick and roll. Live dribble. He's like 12ft from the rim in that dead dead zone. He'll even pick up his dribble there. And Ayton stays in the play because he knows Luka is going to use an iFake to get a defender to rotate to the corner. And he throws a lob that has no business being available to. To Ayton, to the Lakers. But Luca creates it with his brains and his. His size and. And it's just. It's a bit awesome to watch. We'll see. Like, I don't think they can beat any of those teams I mentioned in the playoffs. Minnesota, they could beat Houston. They would. I think I would pick them against Houston for sure. The. The other. I call them the top three, even though Denver is not in the top three. But the other three are a different story. Can I. Another. Another important take. You know, I was once a traditionalist mo. I wanted home teams to wear white and road teams to wear dark. And when you get the right color matchups, I just like, let's just, let's just go wild. And like, the gold versus blue last night was just beautiful. I. There was a red versus blue game recently. I don't remember who it was. Just. Just as long as you get it right. And it's not like colors that are confusing or like a red team versus a red team where you're like, well, one's in red, one's in white. Where's the game? What's happening? I love the. It's a very important take.
- [23:38]
Mo DeKil
I realize it's so rare that we actually get it to be right though more often or not. It's like I'll turn on the game and be like, what the hell are we doing here? Like, with the colors and the uniforms and things like that. So I think, you know, it's not often, but when it does come together, you're like, this is perfect. This is what I want. But we have to suffer through a river of crap to get there. And I think sometimes it's just not worth it.
- [24:08]
Zach Lowe
Okay, let's do the MVP now because this four player race is unbelievable. It is a four player race. Wemby has staked his claim aggressively as like, yeah, I think I'm the MVP. Defense is 50% of the game. And I talked about this, talked about it many times. You know, that's an old saw. It's the old saw that I leaned on when I voted Kawhi MVP in the year Russ won. And even then I was like, it's not really 50% of the game on an individual level because an offensive superstar can control every single possession on that end of the floor and a defensive superstar cannot do that on defense because teams can just steer their offense away from him, from him. And Wimy is the exception to that rule. It doesn't matter where he is. He's controlling everything that you do when you have the ball. And you know, there have been a couple teams who have played the spurs recently who have brought him into the action more like, all right, you're on our center. We're just going to run our normal pick and roll stuff. We'd rather do that than have you roving around and as a, as a help menace who can be in five places at once. And that sounds good in theory, but, but when you do that, everyone else can just stay home. The spurs should never allow an open catch and shoot three when Wemby is in a dropback defense on the pick and roll because he can guard everybody. He can guard the ball handler, he can guard the screener, he can guard the lobby. He's got everything covered. And look, I think Shay start to finish, this is his MVP. He also has like a 400 minute advantage over Wembanyama, which, which it matters. It's like 350 or something like that. That's a lot like when Shay is putting up the kind of value he is on both ends of the floor. It's not like he's a minus defensively. He's a plus, maybe a big plus. And he's shooting the way he's shooting throw in the minutes. If they clinch the number one seed, I think it's his mvp. I do think Wemby has a real case. Like I think he's made it to second on my ballot over Jokic who continues to have these games where it's like what are these turnovers that you're having? It's crazy. And, but again, this is all like, these are four players that are having historically great seasons. Someone's going to have to finish third. Someone's going to have to finish fourth. The spurs are lapping the field. I'm fine with Wemby being second. I'm fine with him reaching the point that it's like, I got to actually sit down and make sure he's not the mvp. Because when you watch these games, it's like his impact is all encompassing every second. To the point that if you said right now I'm voting him mvp, I'd be like, look, I mean, I'd probably vote for Shay. Maybe I'm just a little slow on the uptake. And I'll say this, I'll bet you next season Wemby's going to be considered the best player in the league. I think we're already arriving at that point and the competition is so fierce with these guys. They're all incredible players. They're all going to be like, top whatever, pick the number of players when they retire if they stay healthy. Jokic is crossing 30, Shay is not. She's going to be amazing for like four years, I think next year. As Wemby discovers how to get his points on offense, how not to force, you know, mid range jumpers that are not great shots, how to work with Vassell and Fox and all these great guards and off ball actions that get the offense moving and just get him into finishing position, I think at this time next year, it's going to be a consensus opinion that he's the best player in the league.
- [27:31]
Mo DeKil
Yeah, there's a, there's a lot there. The. I think for everybody to get there, I think they need to see, we need to see how he performs in the playoffs. Right. Like, that's the, the first part of it, too.
- [27:43]
Zach Lowe
Fair point. Probably should have mentioned that he's about to make his postseason debut.
- [27:46]
Mo DeKil
Right?
- [27:47]
Zach Lowe
And these, and these teams are going to beat the hell out of him. Like every team, their strategy is going to be like, we're just going to beat you up and see how many things the refs call.
- [27:55]
Mo DeKil
I love when teams do that because it really doesn't seem to affect Wemby too much. He gets a little frustrated. But I've seen the Pistons do it, we've seen the Rockets do it. I mean, we've even saw the Clippers do it in that, that crazy game that they lost in San Antonio. Being really physical with him, like, it doesn't seem to shake him too much. I talked about it with, with Jalen Williams being physical with him on the Thunder. We're going to see that across the board and it gets amped up in the playoffs, it. In that point. But I almost think teams do that at your detriment because it might actually get him going in a weird way. There was a possession, though, what you're talking about, like, his defense against the Pacers, and I know the Pacers are having the season that they're having, but there was a possession where like, Nemhard drove down the lane, made a business decision not to take the shot when he saw it was Wemby, tried to. Tried to kind of like fake Wemby out of it and then go back into it, and Wemby was not having it. Kicks it out to Siakam, but then Siakam tries to drive on Wemby and then just has his shot completely. Not blocked, but altered in a way where there's no chance of it going in. Like, he. That's his effect defensively, where it's like he can guard multiple positions. You talked about it before. The. My favorite is when he's hiding, which is funny, when it's an 8 foot 7 dude hiding, you know, kind of like behind another guy.
- [29:11]
Zach Lowe
He's doing, he's doing Grand Theft Alvarado, except he's like a foot and a half taller than Grand Theft Alvarado, but
- [29:17]
Mo DeKil
he's doing it on blocks, which is also really amazing. So it's, it's, you know, it's. It's along those lines of like, anybody playing the spurs should know that whenever I'm going to the rim and Wemby's on the floor, even if I don't see him, he's there. Like, it doesn't matter. He's somehow there in that way.
- [29:33]
Zach Lowe
So give me your MVP ballot as of now.
- [29:35]
Mo DeKil
Mode D. So as of right now, it's Shea number one. I think, end to end, he's been phenomenal. I think he's, he is good defensively as well. So it's not something where, like, as great as Wemby is defensively, it's not enough to kind of say, like, well, Shea's a one way guy. He's not. He plays both ends of the floor. Shay number one. Wemby's my number two. And I think I've been there probably about two and a half, maybe even three weeks in that way where I felt like seeing Jokic kind of has struggled a little bit, but seeing how well Wemby has played has taken me to that point where he's, he's a clear number two to me. I was shocked. Zach. I was on NBA TV and they had Luka too, in their, in the. Their NBA's MVP ladder. And I was a bit surprised by that. For me, it's still Wemby. I have Jokic 3 and I have Luka at 4. But I think 3 and 4 could be really interchangeable in the next, you know, few weeks as we come to the end of this season, because I think that is becoming the race that we really need to keep an eye on. And then fifth, there's so many guys for the fifth spot. I'm going. Jaylen Brown just. I've been impressed with the way he's played all season. This is a team again. With the Celtics, we weren't expecting to be as good as they have been. And I think the. I know the numbers when he's off the team still doesn't miss a beat or whatnot. But he's the guy. Like even now with Tatum out there, that Phoenix game really kind of showed it. Like he's the guy they're going to depend on at the end of games and things like that. I think he's earned it for me. I think he's my fifth guy.
- [31:04]
Zach Lowe
Yeah. I mean, Jalen Brown may well get it because we're going to have games played issues for Cade and potentially Anthony Edwards. Donovan Mitchell has kind of had a little bit of a shooting slump now for about a month. Would have been my. I don't know if he would have been my pick. Probably Kade would have been my pick. But we'll see who's eligible. On the Jaylen Brown on off stuff they are. The Celtics are plus 5.4 with Jaylen Brown on the floor and plus 11.4 with Jaylen Brown off the floor. The 5.4 number actually bothers is the wrong word. Makes me pause more than the gap because 5.4 is like just. That's a good team. It's like you'd be like, I don't know, you'd be like, pick a good team. You'd be the Nuggets right now or something. It's not. It's not an ALL World Team. 11.4 is an all world team. But then you look at like, all right, so what's happening? Why are they worse with Jalen Brown off the floor? One is opponents to get to the line a lot more. And you start to wonder, the same thing happens with Shea is that because they play oftentimes the whole first quarter and the whole third quarter and then the end of the second and the fourth, so they're on the floor for all the bonus minutes. Is that really about them? Opponents are on fire on mid range jumpers and shots at the rim with Jalen Brown on the floor. Is that like, is that, is he causing that? Is that just random? Particularly the mid range jumpers. Like, I just don't, I don't penalize him much for that. And he has done great work, as has Derek White and Peyton Pritchard, keeping this team not only afloat, but making them the story of the league this season. So I have no problem with that. All right, let's take a quick break and then we're going to go streaking for a couple minutes. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra, the official beer of the NBA. Part of why we all love watching the game is the superior talent on the court. Spurs, Pistons, Wembanyama getting knocked all over the floor. Cade's hip checking them. Paul Reed's elbowing him. Jalen Dern's going right at him and he just gets up and gives it back. And has six of the most spectacular blocks you will ever see a player have, including one of the best I've ever seen. I on Cade Cunningham at the rim, leading the spurs to a statement win on the road. That's why we watch the NBA, to see guys like that do things like that. But superior plays aren't just for the NBA. Try Michelob Ultra. A superior light beer with only 95 calories. Even better with Michelob Ultra, you could win courtside seats. Ooh, and more. Michalob Ultra. Superior is worth playing for. Enter now at MICOM Courtside. MGLOB Ultra Courtside 25 to 26. No purchase necessary. Open U.S. residents 21 or over. Begins on October 1, 2025 and ends on June 30, 2026. Multiple entry period. See official rules@mycglobalultro.com Courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. Let's quickly streak through the east before we get to our all rookie teams. Orlando, five straight losses. Miami, five straight losses, including a buzzer beating tip in by Amen Thompson that was like majestic. Indiana snapped a 16 game losing streak. Golf clap for Indiana. They beat the Magic last night. Paolo Bankero got double stuffed at the rim by Pascal Siakam who's just like, hey, I'm still here. I'm trying to get to 65 games just in case you guys want to put me on the all NBA team. If everyone else falls through, I deserve it. Like by the merits. I've had a great season. My team has like a dozen Wins, but I'm really good and huffing stuff. Jay Huff and stuff. Got a Huff stuff at the end there. Miami bringing Norman Powell off the bench. He doesn't seem super happy about that. Andrew Wiggins came back last night after a long absence, you know, look like. And then just a note on the standings. Mo. We've just got a barn burner right now for worst record in the NBA. The Nets have lost eight in a row. They are 17 and 55. The Wizards have lost 16 in a row with no signs of letting up. How shocked are you that Anthony Davis and Trey Young are still unavailable to play? I can't believe it. I thought the Wizards medical team would work miracles. I chuckle. I chuckle every fucking time I get my email box is like, washington Wizards medical update. Like, let's see how they frame this one. Anthony Edwards is still. Or Anthony Edwards. Anthony Davis's joke had. Was reevaluated. And you know, what verb should we use? A strain, A bruise, which is a noun. I realized, like, what are they going to frame this as? They've lost 16 in a row. They're 16 and 55. The Pacers are 16 and 56. Now in sole possession of the worst record in the NBA. The Nets play both of those teams in the last 10 games of the season. So the Nets can sort of lose their way into the top spot in the lottery. And the other important lottery update. The Jazz have a stranglehold on the fifth spot in the lottery. Now they might. They're getting Dallas is like trying to chase them a little bit, but the fifth spot for them would give them, if I'm reading tankathon correctly, a 99.4% chance of keeping the top eight protected pick that they owe the Thunder. And let me tell you right now, if that's where this stays, the funniest thing that could possibly happen is the 0.6% chance that that pick becomes ninth. I don't wish that upon Jazz fans. I don't wish it upon the Ainge family. I don't wish that upon Ryan Smith in his collection of hats that he wears backwards for some reason. But it would be objectively hilarious. Okay, does any of this. Here's my thing about the east. Like, 5 to 10 is now a mess. The Raptors are only a game up on the Hawks for six. There's a bunch of teams that are, you know, all close. Charlotte is still in 10th, I think, right now between Toronto, Atlanta, Philly, Orlando, Miami, Charlotte, given Orlando just can't figure itself out and Miami can't seem to figure itself out. I think I would now. I. 2 weeks ago I thought Miami is the friskiest of those teams. If. If I'm a top four team in the East. Now I think it's Charlotte again who has a chance to get in now to the 7, 8 spot in the play in. And we should all be rooting for that because I think that's our best chance at a competitive, maybe super competitive first round series. I still don't really think if either of these. This is all fun and it's all noisy. If either of these top four teams, any of them lose in the first round, they should be ashamed of themselves because they are better and more polished than all these other teams.
- [37:42]
Mo DeKil
Yeah, I think I'm with you with Charlotte. I think Charlotte is the friskiest of them all. Just the way they're playing. And look, you got to remember it was 4 and 14 how they started. Since then they've been phenomenal and it's. They're playing above being a play in level at that rate. If they had played that way all season, they're a game.
- [37:58]
Zach Lowe
To be clear, they're now tied in the last column with Miami at ninth and a game out in the lost column of Philly and Orlando who are 7 and 8. What a disaster for Orlando. If Orlando falls into the play in it would just be. I mean the rest of the east is like take a top six seed. Just like take it. Toronto's been five and five in their last and now the Hawks are on fire because they've had the easy schedule. But like you can't outpace the Hawks. Like what are we doing? I know everyone's hurt all the time, but not even that.
- [38:30]
Mo DeKil
When they played the Hawks they got completely smashed and they went in there also with a win streak as well, you know, and got destroyed in that game, you know. And that was the night where Nikhil Alexander Walker dropped 40 something. And it's. It's along those lines of it's. You and I have talked many times about my disappointment with the Orlando Magic and even last night's game. I was so pissed off at the end of that game because Paolo on the catch has a drive to the basket. If he just goes, but he stops for a split second. And that allowed Siakam to catch up to him, but I think he had a. A bucket right there. If he just catches it and continues to move with it. But that's.
- [39:07]
Zach Lowe
Besides, I think you need to maybe see a therapist about your Orlando Magic issues. I think you have anger issues about the Orlando Magic. I think they're in your head a little too much. I think it's. I think it's become problematic. I think you need to take a break from the Magic, like detox a little bit. Watch them in 10 days or so.
- [39:24]
Mo DeKil
I mean, it's just, you know, stuff is just driving me nuts. But I think it's the whole thing though, when you look at the way it's all set up, Charlotte's the most fun. Charlotte's who we want to see in the first round.
- [39:37]
Zach Lowe
I think that actually undersells Charlotte. I think they're just the best of all those teams, period, including the Raptors, who are fifth. And I want to reiterate something I said on Sunday with Bill. I don't want to hear any of these fucking Johnny come lately is on lamelo ball. Like lamelo ball's good now. He's a winning player now. He's definitely changed the way he's played. I've said it before, he's probably gone from 10 insane decisions per game to like five. And that makes him look like a completely different player because the 10 insane decisions were so loud and so crazy that they were the only things you remembered from yet another unremarkable Charlotte Hornets game and yet another unremarkable Charlotte Hornets season. But don't sit here and pretend like this wasn't at least a decent team when the mellow ball was healthy like a play in level team. And they've always been way better with lamello ball on the floor. People just got so caught up in the carnival esque aspects of his game that it made them think, well, he's a loser. He's never been a loser. He's always been good. He's always been better for their team. Their team's always been way better with him on the floor and not just in a Our bench sucks so our starters are by default better. Our net rating is better with them. In a legit like this offense kind of hums when he's on the floor. He is a better player today than he was last season. Also healthier. He is a more diligent decision maker than he was last season and in prior seasons. That stuff is all real. It leads to winning. It's probably in part because he can see two guys on his team who are like these guys are as good as me. I don't have to do crazy stuff. I can handle but down to them a little bit. But I don't want to hear anyone say that like he was a loser and now he's a winner. Like he's always been a good player anyway, end of story, I think.
- [41:19]
Mo DeKil
But I also think part of that, some of that credit needs to go to Charles Lee in the way he's handled it, in the way he's kind of dealt with Lamelo with those crazy decisions and all that. A lot more credit goes to Lamelo for actually doing it and being the player that he's, you know, changing and like you said, cutting down on those decisions and it helps having more talent around. But I think some of it, I want to give. Give some of that love to Charles Lee and the way he kind of handled. Because remember, early in the season it seemed rocky between those two. Like we remember we had him in the market with Trey Young and John Moran and what's going to happen with those three guys and how real or not. But there was definitely that was in the ether, at least in the sports media world in that regard. And I feel like they've done a good job kind of coming back and getting this stuff all organized as a organization. And when I'm. When I said fun, I mean I'm fun because I think they're going to provide a great first round series. Whoever, whether it's Detroit, whether it's Boston, they're going to give them hell. I don't know if that means it's a. They'll win a game. I don't know if they'll. Or if this series will go seven, but every game they're going to be in it, they're going to fight, they're going to battle like hell. It's not just Lamelo. Brandon Miller's been phenomenal. Con canipple has been absolutely amazing. Then you have guy like guys like Musa Diabate going completely nuts, right? Yeah. Doing the antlers and all that stuff. Like you're. It's. I love Kobe White coming off the bench. I love that move when they made it at the deadline. Like this is a legitimately fun and good team.
- [42:50]
Zach Lowe
And I'm so excited.
- [42:52]
Mo DeKil
Not just to see them try to get into the playoffs and get there and battle, but then also what this means going forward the next year.
- [42:59]
Zach Lowe
They could win 50 games next year.
- [43:02]
Mo DeKil
Yeah, I see that. That's.
- [43:05]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, that's the last time The Hornets won 50 games. Geez.
- [43:09]
Mo DeKil
I mean, I don't even know. Like I'd really. I'd have to spend quite a lot of time on basketball reference to fly to figure it out. They don't. They just won 10 games, nine games in a row was the first time in like since like 99 or something like that.
- [43:22]
Zach Lowe
I'll tell you right now when the last time they won 50 games. It's not that they're going to win 50 this year. Oh boy, oh boy. The last time the Hornets franchise won 50 games was 1998. Yeah, let's break that streak next year. Hornets. Okay, let's go Anyway, top four in the East. Look, here's where I am. I think it's why I think any of the four could win the east. Any of them. What Detroit has done so far without Cade. Now two of the two of the games have been against bad teams. But still like they've reminded you we've got other stuff here and other ways to win. I do think offense is going to get harder for them in the playoffs. I might actually rank them in terms of finals equity. I might rank them a slight fourth out of these four teams. But it's the kind of thing where like it's 28%, 26%, 23%, 21%. Whatever. The math I just did is probably wrong. Boston has, has sort of emerged as the quote favorite. I get why they are the most complete and coherent and certain of themselves team. I just think it is notable like as awesome as Tatum has looked and this has gone as well as possible for Boston, he is shooting 39% and 29% on threes and he's clear and, and I like the fact that he's I think taking probably too many pull up threes because he's trying to get that shot, find his legs and get his rhythm to boot. I call this the Dylan Brooks stat Mo. I look it up on the tracking data on genius iq, second spectrum on pick and rolls for ball handlers. Who shoots the most. Like who, who, who on their picks is shooting the most. It's an annual Dylan Brooks festival and he is indeed number one this year. 67% of his pick and rolls he shoots. Tatum is number two at 66%. That's probably too many and he's been unselfish in lots of other ways but I just do think it's worth noting everyone just sort of penciled in like upward trend. It's he's going to be 90% of Jason Tatum by the playoffs. I mean we'll see. He's shooting 50% on twos. That's very credible and very encouraging based on what he's coming back from. I'm just not quite ready to anoint them as like well they're clearly the favorites and the Knicks are just like, why not the Knicks and the Cavs? I think when they get. If it really depends on Jared Allen, I think they need Jared Allen. They need his versatility, they need his size, they need the defense. With Evan Mobley, he's been out for a while with this knee tendonitis, that's worrisome. But I think they're loaded if they're healthy and have a ton of options sort of in the vein of the Thunder with just like a lot of guards who do a lot of different kinds of stuff. I think any of those four could win these. That sounds like a cop out. I don't. I might rank them right now. New York, Boston, T1, tied at first, Cleveland, Detroit. But like, I think any of them can win it. And if Cade can come back and look like Cade and has the win that he's going to need to have, like, I think Detroit could make the Finals too.
- [46:20]
Mo DeKil
Yeah, I, I'm a little lower on Detroit just because I do worry about the offense when we get to the playoffs and when teams kind of dial in on. On just Kate and let's see what everybody. You know, how can you beat us four out of seven times when we do this and. And can you get enough? Like, yeah, you might get a game. You might get a Jenkins goes off game like he did the other night and things. Tobias Harris goes nuts in a game, obviously Jalen Duran and things like that. But I would be. I'd have my. I'd have my doubts they could survive that.
- [46:52]
Zach Lowe
The.
- [46:52]
Mo DeKil
The thing for me, I think when I look at this stuff in the east, it's going to come down to the standings and I think we're heading to Boston, New York, second round. And that lines up perfectly for Cleveland. Right. Like, I think to at least get to the conference finals.
- [47:09]
Zach Lowe
Detroit disrespect. The Detroit disrespect.
- [47:11]
Mo DeKil
I'm just saying.
- [47:12]
Zach Lowe
I'm just saying we know if it gets to game seven, you just lean on James Harden. You're there, you get. You're into the next round.
- [47:19]
Mo DeKil
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So I think, you know, it's just like, I think it lines up well for them though, and for Detroit in the sense of let these two teams battle it out. I don't concern about Boston.
- [47:32]
Zach Lowe
Why are you concerned about Boston more
- [47:34]
Mo DeKil
in the front court than just like Tatum and that whole.
- [47:37]
Zach Lowe
Been the, the weak spot. Also that weak spot. But Keita has been unbelievable. But it's Keita Garza and Naby Vuch Yeah.
- [47:44]
Mo DeKil
And like at that point that's where I'm concerned about. I have a lot of questions about and Kate has been phenomenal. Like you know, just anybody.
- [47:52]
Zach Lowe
It's.
- [47:52]
Mo DeKil
You remember how like whenever you let the teams left guys left the Boston Celtics, they would drop off and it's still going on.
- [47:59]
Zach Lowe
If you've checked in on Anthony Simons lately, still happening.
- [48:02]
Mo DeKil
It's a good point. But it's the opposite with the Kings.
- [48:08]
Zach Lowe
We're going to get to the Kings in a second. I actually have some nice things to say about the Kings, but yeah, so
- [48:12]
Mo DeKil
I think that's, that's. I just think every one of these teams have questions. It's a, it's a toss up to a degree, but I think the way the standings finish is going to, is going to have a lot of an effect to this.
- [48:24]
Zach Lowe
So Cleveland loses the tiebreaker to both New York and Boston, which is one of the reasons that they are projected to be a borderline lock for the three seed. However, they have an angel food cake schedule the rest of the way and Boston and New York have very hard schedules the rest of the way. So it'll be interesting to see if Cleveland sort of leans into like we're cool with fourth. Like let us be fourth if they, if they kick a game if they need to to stay fourth. Wouldn't surprise me if they did. New York and Boston for the two seed is quite interesting. I checked this with the league. I'm pretty like we all pretty much are sure we have it. I think New York already has the tiebreaker over Boston because they Even though they're 2:1 head to head, Boston could even that at 2:2. They have one big important game left and then it would default to division record. But if you look at the division record because of the in season tournament, New York played an extra division game and one and so Boston cannot catch them in division record. So I'm pretty sure New York has the tiebreaker clinch. But that, I mean again, I don't really know that that matters because God knows you can't predict who's going to be six and who's going to be seven. Right now you would like to have home court in game seven of that series and boy if we get a Boston, New York second round series again where both teams legitimately believe we can get to the finals. And yeah, we'd be underdogs if we got to the finals. Guess who else was a huge underdog when they got to the finals? The Indiana Pacers, who damn near won it. So like get there and you never know. The other last thing shouts to Moses Moody, who's had a very nice season and came back from one injury last night and suffered what looked like just a scary, fluky, horrible injury, going up for a dunk at the end of the warriors game against the Mavericks. Fingers crossed that maybe it's an MRI miracle and it's not what it looks like it could be. But that was awful and by all accounts he's a great, a great teammate and has played really well this year. Okay, all rookie teams. Mo let's do it. We're getting to award season. We only got 10 games left. All rookie teams. You get two teams. That's it. There's no third team. All rookie. There's no positions. There's no games things there's no 65 games. You just pick the five best on the first team and the next five on the second team. And I always love doing this because yeah, I'll wa like show me I'll watch like give me a back to back Nets games. I'll watch. How's Drake Powell doing? Does Danny Wolfe deserve a look for second team? Ben Saraf had a career high the other night against I think the Knicks in a very feisty Nets Knicks game. And so let's start here. Can we agree four locks for first team. We don't even have to talk about it. Flag Khan, Harper, Edgecomb. I flirted with the question of like has Harper just passed BJ for third in rookie of the year voting? VJs played a thousand more minutes. Like literally a thousand more minutes. So I'm still going to default to him. The Would you draft Harper's second question is more interesting to me given how amazing Knipple has been in the sort of secondary, sometimes primary role that he plays for Charlotte. I think that's a real question and I like it's weird because I saw Justin Barrier said this like Knipple would almost fit this specific spurs team better than Harper because of the shooting of versatility. I just, Harper just screams superstar to me. Just and Knipple screams star. Harper screams like this could be James Harden 2.0 but with defense and more explosive finishing at the rim. The, the guy's rim finishing is like absolutely terrifying. But those are the four locks on first.
- [52:06]
Mo DeKil
Can I, can I can I chime in there real quick on the yeah, the second I think the for me I, I it's Harper and it's I understand everybody's right. Knipple would fit right in Everything. And it would be unbelievable. I don't even think we've seen what Harper can be three years from now.
- [52:27]
Zach Lowe
Right.
- [52:27]
Mo DeKil
Like him getting kind of almost getting to work a little bit as like the understudy to de' Aaron Fox right now is huge. And I think for the spurs, the three headed monster of Fox, Harper and Castle, that each kind of bring a different sort of element in the way they attack teams when they're on the floor and have the ball is, is such a unique challenge for defenses. I think it's, it's. I don't even think this first should have any doubt.
- [52:54]
Zach Lowe
No, they should. No, no, I don't think and I
- [52:55]
Mo DeKil
don't think they do and I don't think they do. But like, I just know like we're, we're doing the fun stuff of the redraft already and let's figure this stuff out. We're, we haven't even scratched the surface because Harper's played what, like just under 1300 minutes. Like, it's not even like he, we haven't gotten a chance to. He hasn't gotten a chance to show everybody even what he could do now fully at that point. I think this is a, I think what we're going to see when we look back and do the three draft five years from now, we're going to be like, no, this person made the right decision.
- [53:23]
Zach Lowe
Knipple is really unbelievable. Like, I'm looking at Harper's numbers now. I have all the rookies up on a basketball reference search over here and it's like Harper, unbelievable. He's shooting 56% on twos. We know the three's been up and down. It's been up lately. And it seems like the more responsibility they give him because Castle missed a few games and you know, whatever, the better he does. Um, which is again, I think reason to believe, like this is a potential superstar just sitting here. Also a potential superstar. Stefan Castle, top five favorite player to watch in the NBA. And then you look at Knipple like, what's he shooting from 2? I know he's shooting unbelievable from 3. 57% on twos. Just like the efficiency machine. All right, so the question is Mo, who is your fifth player on first team all rookie.
- [54:05]
Mo DeKil
I really struggled with this and like, I've been working on this since we talked about this on Saturday, like to the point where I was up late.
- [54:11]
Zach Lowe
Sad weekend.
- [54:12]
Mo DeKil
Oh my God, most of my weekends these days. But like going into this and figuring out I, it was a question of Ace Bailey vs Derek Queen for me. And I ended up, I ended up going with Bailey because I just feel like Queen is kind of hit a rookie wall and I feel like that's kind of sort of put him, for me, in a second team and moved Bailey into the first team. And it's funny, like, I don't even, didn't even realize how many minutes Ace Bailey has played, you know, before even the pre tanking stuff that the, the, the, the Jazz were going into, like, it's, it's pretty impressive for me with where he's been. So I got him. I know it's kind of, it's shocking right with the draft.
- [55:06]
Zach Lowe
It's not a shock. He has to shock, like just one through five. Chalk, chalk, chalk.
- [55:11]
Mo DeKil
Excuse me, one through five in that thing. But it's also very rare. Rookie, all NBA rookie, first team, one through five picks being nailed. And I think that's, that's pretty impressive.
- [55:23]
Zach Lowe
I have, I would not put him first team, all rookie, but he is an absolute lock to be all rookie one way or the other, first or second team. He was on the borderline for me. People probably stopped watching the Jazz with good reason two years ago. By the way, topic that Bill and I continue to punt on our Sunday pods is just food for thought. We'll do it another time. But you know, asset wise, they did so well in the Mitchell and Gobert trades that I had. I, I, I think it's actually worth pausing and thinking about did they, did they have to do that? Like, are they, are they actually better off having done that? I know Mitchell was going to put pressure on them with the extension, all that, but he still had two, I think maybe even three years left on his contract, maybe just two in an option. It's like those guys are still really, really good in their, in their primes. Like, I think we just sped by the trades so fast because the asset return, including marketing, was so spectacular that it's like, that's cool. You got a lot of great assets. Like, is this, is this going to translate? But Ace Bailey is a big part of why it's going to translate. And Keonte George was one of the picks they got in that trade. I've loved the way Ace Bailey has played this season. It's exactly the opposite of how I thought it would go. He's really tried hard on defense. He cuts, he sets screens, his shot selection is totally fine. And even as they've used these last 20 games to be like, you know what, man, let's see what you got. Take 10 threes take 15. I think he took 17 in a game. He's shooting pretty well. He's had some really nice little post up buckets over smaller defenders on switches. I just, I love what I've seen from him. My first team came down to Cedric Coward, Derek Queen, and the guy I actually may end up going with is Maxime Reyno from Sacramento who has been like spectacular in the last two months of the season. Now defensively, he's extremely challenged and that's being kind. He has good instincts, he talks, he moves his feet. Okay. He's just slow and he doesn't, can't jump very high. But offensively, I mean, it's his, his case for this spot is unimpeachable. He's shooting 57% and 60% on twos. The argument for Queen over him is the passing. I think the advanced stats are for all of them like they are for most rookies, except for the top two or three guys. And I, I, Reyno can pass and Queen is. Queen has the assist rate of like a guard and Reynold has the assist rate of a typical center. But Reynolds a pretty good passer. And you just look at the team construction, right? Like the Pelicans leaned in all the way to like pseudo point Queen from the nail for a lot of the season. And as you said, he's hit kind of a wall now comes off the bench and the Kings just have 9,000 point guards on their team who do all the dribbling. I think Reynaud's been really, really good the way Queen has hit the wall and Coward's minutes are kind of deflated cause he's been in out of the lineup. I think he might kind of sneak into a first team. All rookie candidates. A beautiful floater. He's in the 99th percentile for frequency of shots from floater range. It's a really useful shot because he hangs around the dunker spot a little bit and he can hit that from the baseline. I, I really like him. So I, I, I pen penciled him in to first team. But then you have. So we disagree on that. That's fine. But second team has got to have for me Queen. And for you Queen as well. Yeah, for me Bailey, I assume for you Renault. Yeah, Second team. I think Coward has to be second team.
- [58:58]
Mo DeKil
Yeah.
- [58:59]
Zach Lowe
And the other lock for me. So now we're up to nine locks. If you include Ace Bailey is Ryan Kalkbrenner, who I think has played a pretty sub substantive role for a really good team. And does what he does very, very well already at the NBA level. Did you have him or no?
- [59:15]
Mo DeKil
Huh? I did not.
- [59:17]
Zach Lowe
Okay, so give me your other guys on second team.
- [59:19]
Mo DeKil
I had Jeremiah Fears with New Orleans and I had Trey Johnson with Washington.
- [59:26]
Zach Lowe
Trey Johnson. Okay, I mean, let me, let me hear it. Because he's played 1300 minutes. He is shooting 37% on threes. His defense is it.
- [59:43]
Tate Frazier
It.
- [59:43]
Zach Lowe
He doesn't exist. He does. He does. He is geographically on that side of the floor when the Wizards are on defense. I like him. He, he can really shoot. I would have put him behind. I have fears as my last second team guy, by the way. Fears. My second team is fears. Bailey, Coward, Brenner, Queen or you know, take your pick Queen for now. We'll get to the Nets guys in a second. I would have not had him second team. So I'm interested to hear your justification.
- [60:13]
Mo DeKil
No, I mean one, first off, it's terrible team with Washington and he's so far has proven to just be a one sided player in that way offensively. I love the way he moves within, within the confines of the offense and the way he kind of finds his shots and his opportunities. He's a little bit undersized for this comparison, but he kind of, it feels very Joe Johnson to me in a way and it's, you know, like when I'm watching it, like it took me a while, like I was going through and trying to figure out like who, like who does he kind of remind me of and things like that. It's, it feels Joe Johnson to me. I love the way he shoots. I love that he can get to those spots. Now look, his, his two point field goal percentage is pretty bad, but I think to me he was my last pick in all this. And I think it's, it's when I see the way he kind of just works within this offense, I can see where it's going. And I think he's had just a good enough year for me with Kalkbrenner, who was my last out in this was, you know, I feel like a lot of the rise for the Hornets was once they took him out of the starting lineup and Diabate went in. And I feel like that kind of has to matter to me. It matters a little bit. It's also part of the reason why, you know, Queen going from starting to the bench and things like that. There's a reason why within the team and that's why he ended up being second team. So it's like there's a lot of stuff there for me in that back and forth there. Like I don't have a problem with Kalkburner over Johnson. I could see it being very close, but for me I just went with Johnson in that regard. I think, you know, the shooting's pretty strong. I think, you know, I wish he did try a little more defensively but ultimately I think it's a, it's a tough one there. That last spot's kind of tough.
- [61:58]
Zach Lowe
I had fears too. I just think he's done enough scoring and assisting on a team that's competing and playing real games that he needs to be on it. Can I just shout out a few other guys? Yeah.
- [62:09]
Mo DeKil
And then I'll throw in whatever you some of my shout outs if they're not mentioned.
- [62:12]
Zach Lowe
Seon James, nice job. Just doesn't quite do enough. But you know he exists out there as a three and D guy. He just doesn't really do a lot with the ball. I if you had him second team I wouldn't go crazy. Nick Clifford has had a nice little last month of the season. He's a crafty, he plays with like this staccato, herky jerky rhythm. He has a nice mid range game. He's a clever passer. I wish the Kings would let him do a little bit more on offense because I kind of want to see just like what else are we doing with the season? Like why are we pretending that anything else is important? You mentioned Trey J, Hugo Gonzalez, plus minus Demon, just not enough minutes. Has been out of the rotation for parts of the season. Not big parts of it. Colin Murray Boyles I think could very well end up being one of the seven or eight best players from this draft class. Just hasn't played enough and played a lot of the season with a thumb injury that made him like sometimes kind of like he would just pass up layups at the rim even if he was wide open. But defensively he's as advertised. I got my eye on him. Let's get to the nets guys because it's not going to look great if they take five guys in the first round and none of them make all rookie teams. Jagor Joman probably would have made second team for me had he stayed healthy. I, I did a deep dive on him yesterday. I just watched a bunch of film on him. I think he's got a chance to be really good. He's tall, he sees every pass like he sees every pass and he sees like Traore Nolan Troy who's super speedy and if teams don't go under on him. He goes right all the time, but he can see like the corner pass and all the basic pick and roll passes. Joman sees all of the ancillary passes in a way that tells you he, he is mapping the floor at a very high level. He anticipates like, well, that guy's not really involved in the pick and roll. He's not a corner shooter, he's not a lob guy. But he's over here. He might cut at this time and when he cuts, he finds him. The off the dribble shooting was awesome. He made a bunch of big time shots late in games. Defensively he should be solid. The next step for him is just getting stronger in the paint, keeping the ball a little longer, playing off two feet a little more. I really like him. The other guys like I think Wolf is fine. I, I don't think he's in the second team conversation. Powell, Trori, Saraf, I mean they could all turn into something. Seraf just isn't very explosive, but he is big and he plays good pressure defense. Powell, I just don't know what he is offensively. He's had some good second side attacks. He's explosive. He's a beast defensively. Traore, I, it's like, I don't know how do those four guys like develop and play together? I don't know. But I'd be optimistic about Joman and the other guys have had kind of hit or miss for me.
- [65:00]
Mo DeKil
Yeah, I'm with you. With Joman, I think that he has the best chance out of everybody in that group.
- [65:05]
Zach Lowe
Like if you put him on second team despite the fact that he's out for the season with this planter, like I think he has a case for it frankly.
- [65:11]
Mo DeKil
Yeah, he definitely could be on and it won't surprise me if he ends up on when the ballots come out. But like I think this is. He has the best chance. I want to mention one other name and if he played more and if he, if he got the minutes he's getting now at the start of the season was and got it all year, Carter Bryant would have been on the 2nd.
- [65:30]
Zach Lowe
Oh my God. If that guy. I was talking to Bill Offline about this if because he went, he saw Spurs, Clippers and he couldn't believe how big Carter Bryant was. If that guy becomes good like really like, like a 40% knockdown catch and shoot three point shooter. It just isn't even fair because physically he is a specimen man and he plays hard and he guards the shit out of everybody.
- [65:53]
Mo DeKil
Yeah. So I think that's. That was the dude, that guy. And then you've. You I believe have just recently bought real estate on Malawatch island and Fleming and Fleming Keys. So I think, you know, for me again hadn't really played enough, but I think just deserved a bit of a mention with, with how he's playing down the stretch, I think these are guys that are, that are going to be interesting. Just makes me go like we got some real talent, young talent across the league. It is a bit difficult trying to figure all this stuff out and we got some good guys, man. It is interesting with Brooklyn though because you brought up something that was really important. How do you develop all these guys that generally play relatively the same, the four of them?
- [66:41]
Zach Lowe
Wolf can fit with anyone because he's going to be a good three point shooter. He's a delightful passer, all that.
- [66:46]
Mo DeKil
But like how you find ways to get make sure such a key part of development is reps. And I'm not talking practice getting game reps. It becomes really difficult with that, which is why it was always weird to me that they did use all four selections or they used all five but using four on relatively the same position and trying to figure that stuff out. That part was a bit weird for me with the Nets. But overall, man, I like our rookie teams. I know.
- [67:10]
Zach Lowe
Well, you know, you know the Nets are going to be active in every coming off season. Although next year they have the thing where Houston can swap picks with them, which is very interesting. It probably makes them want to win more next season and so any trade possibilities on the table for them?
- [67:24]
Mo DeKil
Almost.
- [67:24]
Zach Lowe
I mean almost any. A couple other guys like, I don't know, like Malachi Smith and Chaney Johnson are balling out for the Nets on like rest of season slash two way contracts. And Javon Small is balling out for the Grizzlies as a. As a two way guy. Mo De Kill. You know where to find them. Offsides the association podcast with Jared Dubin. You're the man Mo. I'll say it like I say every time. If you want to understand what happened in the games, follow movie thank you
- [67:52]
Mo DeKil
so much Zach for having me.
- [67:53]
Zach Lowe
And thank you for those kind words. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. One minute the crowd's cheering, the next the scoreboard flips. Sports are full of surprises and life isn't much different. That's where State Farm comes in with their easy to use digital tools and over 19,000 local agents who can help you call the right play. Because when you know someone's ready to assist, you have the confidence to take on the unpredictable. Like a good neighbor. State Farm is there with the assistance. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Price and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. When you pull off a superior play, like blocking a winning shot to push the game into overtime, it feels good. It even gives you shivers sometimes. All the best moments are served ice cold like that. Just like Michelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA, Ultra is a superior light beer with only 95 calories and a crisp, refreshing taste. And you know what makes it even more superior? Michelob Ultra is giving fans like you the chance to win some incredible prizes, including courtside seat tickets. Michelob Ultra Superior is worth playing for. Enter now at michelobultra.com courtside Michelob Ultra Courtside 25 to 26. No purchase necessary. Open US residents 21 or over. Begins on October 1, 2025 and ends on June 30, 2026. Multiple entry periods. See official rules@michelob ultra.com courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. This episode is brought to you by TaxAct. TaxAct is your offensive coordinator for tax season, guiding you step by step with your maximum refund guaranteed. Get tips along the way, add expert assist to talk to tax experts or let our experts do your taxes for you. With Expert full service, TaxAct helps you find the deductions and credits you deserve so you can get them over with. Visit taxact.com to learn more. Conditions apply. See taxact.com for details. All right, it's time for a new segment for me. I don't watch a lot of college basketball and people are like, why? I don't understand. You don't have a brackets Because I'm watching like three NBA games a night and you start to do the math of like, do I want to have a family or anything else going on. It doesn't leave a lot of time for other sports, especially once baseball season starts. And yeah, you're damn right I'm excited about baseball season. So Tate Frazier, the one and only, is here to help me with a segment we're calling the Sweet sixteen for Dummies. And you're going to tell me what's going to happen and what I should look for as an NBA person in some of these games. Are you ready?
- [70:14]
Tate Frazier
Yeah, I'm ready. You told me you wanted an idiot's Guide to the sweet 16, and I'm here to be the Idiot. So I will.
- [70:19]
Zach Lowe
No, I'm the idiot. I'm the idiot. You are guiding the idiot. Because I might, you know, we're these there now. We've gone from a million games on at the same time to one at a time. I might actually flip them on.
- [70:29]
Tate Frazier
Yeah.
- [70:30]
Zach Lowe
I first want to say that I really can't believe in the year of Our Basketball Gods, 2026 that the Sweet 16 is featuring John Calipari, Rick Pitino, Tom Izzo and Rick Barnes, along with like Kelvin Sampson. It's like these guys never go away.
- [70:47]
Tate Frazier
Yeah. Adapt or die. And they've all found a way to adapt in the new times. And obviously Rick Pitino at once upon a time was pretty much blackballed from college basketball. He got, you know, banished over to Greece. It felt like he was never going to get a coaching opportunity over in the States. He comes back, gets a job at Iona. We're all kind of feeling, you know, happy for him. We put him to pasture out there and it turns out he had guys like Danish Jenkins and Walter Clayton, future NBA players, playing for him at Iona. And now he's got a St. John's team in the Sweet 16 for the first time this century. Zach. So since 1999, pretty impressive.
- [71:17]
Zach Lowe
I. I don't know anyone on the team. I do know that they are now, in my opinion, America's team because they are the team that's playing Duke and Abd. Anybody but Duke is my stance about the NCAA tournament. Apologize. Apologies to the 9000 NBA team and league office employees who are Duke alums. Okay, we're just going to go rapid fire through the games. Texas, Purdue, 11 versus 2. What should I be looking for?
- [71:43]
Tate Frazier
Yeah, coaching is a storyline here. Sean Miller, who went to Texas because he wanted to get away from the Cinderella story and now he is the Cinderella as an 11 seed at Texas. Now a top program, but a program that snuck their way in the tournament, shocked the world. I think prospect wise, Dalen Swain is the guy that you got to look for in this game. Jaden McDaniels is a comp that some people have thrown out for him. Don't think I'm at that point with Dalen Swain, but he is like a sleeper first round pick. Needs to get the jumper consistent, but a really good player. Also you got the sand wedge, AKA Voca Titus as Charles Barkley called him the Vokey Titleist, Matas Vocatitis. And he's a good big player for them. A Lithuanian that might be fun to watch. Then you got Tremond Mark, who's hit a walk off game winner against NC State, had a nice walk off back in the day when he played for Houston. You know, a lot of these guys bounce around but Texas is a fun team. But I think they run into a Purdue team that is ran by Matt Painter, a system that is pretty much hard to stop. And you got a true point guard in Braden Smith. And Braden Smith just broke Bobby Hurley's assist record. Zach. So a pretty big storyline in college basketball ranks there and they got Trey Kaufman Wren, who's an old school high IQ guy, interior scorer. So some good players and good storyline. But I think Purdue, their system, the way they run offense is going to expose this Texas team a little bit. So I would go with Purdue here.
- [72:56]
Zach Lowe
Tell me about the system and the assist guy and is he is, does he have NBA talent? What are we talking about with him?
- [73:03]
Tate Frazier
Yeah, Bill said he's going to end up on the Miami Heat and I feel like that's every point guard that
- [73:07]
Zach Lowe
Bill sees, he's so scared of that. They already got Yakushunas who's like might be good.
- [73:12]
Tate Frazier
Yeah, he's a good player and obviously was good at Illinois as well. So I mean Braden Smith is a really like kind of a true point guard, obviously undersized. He has that classic Chris Paul get to the elbow sort of fade away to create some space for himself. So that's something that can translate to the next level. I'm not sure he's going to be a guy who ends up as a starter on the team, obviously in the NBA, but a solid point guard, that could be kind of your backup role. Not as athletic as a TJ McConnell, but maybe sort of fits into that mold a little bit. And a guy that, you know, it's just fun to watch. He creates everything for this team and plays really well with the high pick and roll and has some great drop passes and kind of loves that middle game and is able to find guys like Fletcher Lawyer, who's a big shooter for them, an elite spacer, a specialist on the outside. So a fun team for Purdue. Again they run a great system. They get good shots and a little Hooers with this team DNA and the Purdue, you know, Boilermakers, Hoosiers.
- [74:05]
Zach Lowe
I still, I still get a little misty in the pregame huddle when he says I love you guys. It's still, it still works for me. The, the hoops 10ft thing has been done to death, but I love you guys is a great, a great movie moment. Illinois, Houston two, three, correct Me, if I'm wrong, Illinois is like team former Yugoslavia. They have a whole pipeline now into like they just paid a bunch of Balkan guys a lot of money. So that makes them the team of my household. They have both the Evic twins or brothers, I think. Right. So this is my team. Can they beat Houston?
- [74:43]
Tate Frazier
They have the best offensive college basketball. If you're a Kim Palm analytics guy. I call them the metrics media mafia. They love the Illinois offense and the Illinois offense, offense has been great this year. Keaton Wagler, who's going to be a lottery pick, top 10 pick is a lot of fun. Great passing vision. Right. And a guy that if you don't watch, you probably call him waggler. But it is Wagler. He has, you know, kind of struggled with defensive pressure. If there's one team that will give him that type of pressure, it will be Houston. So this will be a fascinating game to see how much he has grown. Against Michigan, he got kind of locked up by Yaxel Lindaborg, who's another guy who ends up in the draft. We'll talk about him a little bit later. But yeah, this Illinois offense, when they get humming, they just, they look unstoppable and they can score 100 points with these. If it's a high scoring game, you feel good about Illinois, but this Houston defense, Kingston Fleming's another lottery pick for them, has been great all year. Chris Sinac, another big for this team in Houston who's a lot of fun to watch and an NBA type player as well. So I would lean Houston in this game, but this is probably going to be one of the better games in the sweet 16.
- [75:38]
Zach Lowe
Have they won a national title?
- [75:40]
Tate Frazier
No, they have not.
- [75:41]
Zach Lowe
I didn't think so. I know they've got. Did they come? Were they in the championship game recently?
- [75:45]
Tate Frazier
They were in the title game last year against Florida. They kind of had it there for the taking. Florida found a way to win that game as they did throughout the tournament last year. Obviously the greatest air ball in history, you know, with NC State back in 1983. So Houston's been knocking on the door. Yeah, right. They've been knocking on the door for a long time but have not been able to get over the hump. And Kelvin Sampson, one of my favorite coaches in college basketball. So hopefully one day they get there.
- [76:07]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, I enjoyed talking with Kelvin when he was in the NBA. We would always chat before games and I assume this team plays like ferocious defense and as he demands and again, I know nothing. I don't even really Like. Like college basketball is so different now than it was when I was growing up in terms of how teams are built and the financial element, all of that. I just, you know, they're. It's kind of like why I cheer for the Buffalo Bills in the NFL. It's just like, just, just. Can they just win one time? And I will say it again. The greatest nickname in the history of sports, team or individual, include them all. Is fi Slam a jama. And so I have a soft spot for the Houston Cougars. The Fred Hoiberg Bowl. Iowa, Nebraska. Yes, I know Fred Hoiberg is Iowa State. I have no idea what's going on in this game. Iowa wasn't expected to be here. They went through a slump. Right. I didn't even know Nebraska was, like, good. They're 28 and 6. Kudos to Fred Hoiberg, who had kind of a rough deal with Chicago in the NBA and just a weird era for that team, transitioning from the Derrick Rose teams to the Jimmy Butler teams, et cetera. What do I need to be looking for?
- [77:08]
Tate Frazier
Yeah, this is a battle about corn, right? Both these states claim that they produce the most corn. Apparently, Iowa does produce more corn than Nebraska.
- [77:14]
Zach Lowe
Even though that seems. That seems measurable to me. I feel like we could figure that one out.
- [77:19]
Tate Frazier
I have a lot of Iowa people in my life that have been bringing up that point to me. Also, Hoiberg, obviously, like you said, was at Iowa State, so he hates Iowa. So it's kind of a fascinating wrinkle that he gets to play a team in a program that he had such disdain for. Also, styles make fights, and the styles of this game are very different. Ben McCollum, the head coach for Iowa, a D2 coach that won a bunch of national championships, famously beat Duke in an exhibition game when he was coaching a D2 team back in the day. Now Iowa. Yeah, right. A nice little wrinkle there. Also, Iowa, you'll love watching them because one, they have been at Sturts, who's like a mid to late first round point guard, kind of controls and dictates the tempo. They're also the late shot clock assassins. They purposely run the shot clock down to five, four seconds, and then they get a shot up, but it's by design. And Nebraska, on the other hand, is trying to get up as many threes as possible. So this is a really stylistic matchup that's going to be a lot of fun, and I'm excited to see kind of how this plays out. But two really good coaches, as you know with Hoiberg and McCollum is a riser and one of those guys that if you don't know the name, you will know the name very soon because he's got this Iowa team playing at a high level.
- [78:20]
Zach Lowe
So. So the Iowa is like the anti 7 seconds or less offense. What is the reasoning for this? Why do they do this?
- [78:27]
Tate Frazier
They just try to control the possessions in a game and it's, it's sort of a way to dictate how many possessions can get. And then also it does break your defense down when you feel like you defend for 25 seconds and you feel good about yourselves and then they get a great shot and they end up making the shot. Nine times out of ten it feels like. And full Garris had the moment against Florida, the number one seed. That was one of the biggest upsets going into the weekend. An incredible bounce pass by Bennett Certs that was also a nice wrinkle from Ben McCollum. He was like, look, this Florida team is long, they're tall. We need to throw down bounce passes to make sure that they have to bend down. He throws an incredible bounce pass to the corner full Garris hits a big shot in that game. So, you know, it's the little details that matter in Iowa. They definitely handle those at a high level.
- [79:09]
Zach Lowe
Arkansas, Arizona, coach, Cal against the number one seed, 34 and two. I want, I mean someone's got to be Duke and so I feel like I should be cheering for Arizona in this game. But I don't know much about either team other than Arizona's got major prospects on their team and Arkansas has a cuff who everyone is in love with. So yeah, so give me the Acuff scouting report. I know what the NBA comps are. I know what the gener the generic ones are. But what is your Acuff draft like? Should he actually be picked higher than a couple of these like pending top three guys? Like where are we on him?
- [79:42]
Tate Frazier
Yeah, he's. I call him Kimba candidates. He's the type of guy who's a ball dominant guard who can completely take over a game and can put up. I mean he put up 49 points in a game this season. He has that sort of clip where he can just be a superstar and become, you know, one of those guys where you're like, man, he's a March Madness legend and this is a game and an opportunity for him to do that. Bill Simmons, as you know, is in love with Darius Acuff. I don't think he thinks anybody Else is playing in this tournament. Outside of Darius Acuff, that's the only person he can really talk about. But we do have a fun matchup. Talking about lottery guards here, we got Braden Buries for Arizona, who's a little bit older, 20 years old, and then you got Darius Acuff going up against him. And then Jaden Bradley, Big 12 Player of the year. One of those guards that I feel like is going to get in the NBA and we're going to be like, oh yeah, of course this guy is an NBA type player.
- [80:25]
Zach Lowe
So can I, can I tell you, I don't even know which of these teams is in the Big 12 anymore. Which one? Which.
- [80:33]
Tate Frazier
Yeah. So Arizona is now in the Big 12. They stay in. They stay with the 12, but not in the Pac 12. They're in the Big 12. So that was the big move for them. A lot of conference realignment talk.
- [80:43]
Zach Lowe
It's hard for an old guy. It's hard for an old guy like me. So what conference is Syracuse in now?
- [80:47]
Tate Frazier
Syracuse is in the acc.
- [80:48]
Zach Lowe
They stuck with the acc. What? And Stanford is where?
- [80:51]
Tate Frazier
Acc, baby.
- [80:52]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, sure. Obviously, like that makes. That makes a lot of sense. Well, okay. What else? What else? Arizona. Arkansas.
- [81:00]
Tate Frazier
Yeah. So Arizona to me has been the best team all year. I know Duke's the number one overall seed, but this Arizona team, they have the front court that has been solid all year. Krivos is a guy that you would probably like for them. Big man for Arizona. Coapeat had an incredible first game of the season against Florida's front court, which was considered the best front court in the country. Had 30 and 10 in his first game this year. And co opied dealt with some injuries. He's kind of like the, the 1B cam boozer, you know what I mean? He's like similar style player but also just a, you know, late lottery pick type guy that can really help out this team. And then they have a couple, you know, shooters. They are not the best three point shooting team, but they've had guys step up in big games and be able to knock down some shots. I think Arizona is a better team. I feel good about them. But again, with Acuff, anything is possible. And I don't know about the number one pick talk that's happening with Acuff, but I do feel like he is a top four, top five pick and probably penciled in, maybe even sharpie. Den right now is number five.
- [81:54]
Zach Lowe
Who's four?
- [81:56]
Tate Frazier
Caleb Wilson.
- [81:57]
Zach Lowe
Okay, North Carolina, right?
- [81:59]
Tate Frazier
North Carolina. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also a clutch guy. If you haven't heard from Rich Paul. Rich Paul's making sure that we remember Caleb Wilson, so.
- [82:05]
Zach Lowe
Okay, well, I don't. I know North Carolina's out, so.
- [82:08]
Tate Frazier
Yeah, they're out. Yeah, we're in the middle of a coaching search right now. I'm. I'm on the phone during the, during our lead up to this show right now.
- [82:14]
Zach Lowe
Zach, did they fire Hubert Davis today? Did that happen?
- [82:17]
Tate Frazier
It's. Apparently it's. It's imminent, so it should be happening soon.
- [82:21]
Zach Lowe
So they got to the championship game what, two or three seasons ago? Was that just like a complete fluke?
- [82:26]
Tate Frazier
It was like a miracle run. I don't know, it was kind of angels in the outfield, you know what I mean? Like some of the angels of North Carolina pass took over the bodies of guys like Caleb Love and they went on a miracle run. Stop Coach K in the final Four. But then, you know, gave up a 16 point lead against Kansas in the national title game, which was not so fun.
- [82:43]
Zach Lowe
Have you picked these games yet? Do you want to pick them or do you not pick?
- [82:46]
Tate Frazier
I can pick.
- [82:47]
Mo DeKil
Yeah.
- [82:47]
Tate Frazier
I can give you picks.
- [82:48]
Zach Lowe
Give me pick. Just rap. Just go rapid fire.
- [82:50]
Tate Frazier
I'll take Arizona over Arkansas. I do think it's going to be a close game though. I'm going to take Iowa over Nebraska. I'll take Purdue over Texas. So the ones we've done so far, those will be the picks.
- [83:01]
Zach Lowe
Illinois, Houston.
- [83:03]
Tate Frazier
Illinois. Houston. I'll take Houston as well. The ball pressure defensively like you mentioned with Kelvin Sampson. I think it's going to be too much for Illinois.
- [83:10]
Zach Lowe
All right, Friday games. America's team against Duke. We got any shot here? We.
- [83:16]
Mo DeKil
I'm going.
- [83:16]
Zach Lowe
We. St. John's Old Big. What conference are they in now?
- [83:18]
Tate Frazier
They're the Big East.
- [83:20]
Zach Lowe
Big East. That's my conference growing up. Big East. St. John's Chris Mullen, Mark Jackson. Let's. Let's go. We.
- [83:26]
Mo DeKil
We're going.
- [83:27]
Zach Lowe
We. Do we have a shot in this game?
- [83:29]
Tate Frazier
Yes, definitely have a shot. Dylan Mitchell, defensive specialist for this team, one of the best athletes in the NCAA tournament. He's going to be matchup against Camp Boozer. This is a good litmus test for like what does Cam Boozer look like at the next level? He's kind of a hybrid. 3, 4 that they're going to throw a Cam Boozer. I wouldn't be shocked if Patino's pressing obviously in this game as he's prone to do.
- [83:47]
Mo DeKil
But also.
- [83:48]
Zach Lowe
Let's go crazy. Let's do it. Whatever tools we Got.
- [83:51]
Tate Frazier
Yeah, he's going to go for it. He said he also wants redemption for the Christian Laitner shot, bringing up the Kentucky team from back in the day. So Rick Pitino, he's got a list. He's checking it twice, and he's making sure that St. John's can maybe shock the world and become America's team, like you said. So I like the Johnny's to give them some. Some fits a little bit, but I think Duke will separate in this game. They're just a more talented bunch. I think Duke in the last 10 minutes will end up winning this game by, you know, eight to 10 points. But I hope St. John's can shock the world.
- [84:18]
Zach Lowe
Do they get an officiating bump? Duke. Is this. Is there, like a Lakers conspiracy thing with Duke?
- [84:22]
Tate Frazier
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, they were down 13 points to Sienna in the first round.
- [84:26]
Zach Lowe
Jerry McGregor, great moment. Kurt Goldsberry texted me because we had just recorded and I had gone. I had revealed my ABD stance, and he was like, this is great. Sienna's up 13. I'm like, Duke's gonna win by nine. They didn't end up winning by nine, but, like, it was. But for a moment, it was very exciting.
- [84:42]
Tate Frazier
We all had fun as we watched it. It also got gmac, the Syracuse job, which I think is a nice storyline as well. So, yeah, that was a lot of. And Duke. Look at the free throws in that game, Zach, and that'll answer your question about the officiating.
- [84:54]
Zach Lowe
By the way, the Laitner, Duke, Kentucky game, I think still there's a. There are more games now in competition for it. Like, I would put game seven of the World Series last year, the World cup final between Argentina and France, that Argentina won. I still think, because I just love basketball the most, that I still think that's the greatest game I've ever seen in any sport. I've read books about it. I'll never forget what it felt like watching it from my living room, calling my friends, like, on the phone, be like, we got. I watched this game, still my favorite game of all time. And Laitner, actually, sneaky, one of my favorite athletes ever. And it's crazy because I fucking hated Leitner. Like, everybody hated Leitner. There's literally a documentary called Everybody Hates Christian Leitner. I really have grown to love Christian Leitner.
- [85:36]
Tate Frazier
Yeah, you can't hate Christian Laettner just because of the success. You know what I mean? Like, obviously, I hate him as a Carolina guy, but you also have to have. I feel like when we have the Conversations about the greatest all time college basketball players. Sometimes he gets left out of the conversation and that's, that's abhorrent when you think about what he did in his career.
- [85:51]
Zach Lowe
He did, he stepped on the guy from UConn which didn't do him any, any favors reputationally. Also didn't, you know, that was fine. But yeah, like he didn't miss a shot, any shot in that game. Alabama, Michigan. My favorite fight song in college sports. Michigan. Michigan was the team. When I was a senior in high school and all my buddies would say if we were God tier basketball players and we had our pick of any college to go to to play basketball, it was Fab 5 time. Michigan would have been my pick. So I have a soft spot for Michigan. Alabama. I know Nate Oates is like the, the hotshot coach. What do we got going on here?
- [86:28]
Tate Frazier
Yeah, Nate Oates, the mathematician, he obviously has a little bit of, you know, the, the NBA DNA where he wants to take threes and get buckets at the rim. And that's what they do in this, in this game. And the front court of Michigan is the real story here. They have a lot of size. They have been able to use that size to dominate college basketball this season. A little bit of a throwback, right. We had the five out offense, that was a real trendy thing. But now the five out offense doesn't quite work when you have these levels of front lines. And Adai Mara who was at UCLA, 7 foot 3, just a massive man. Also going to have some NBA eyes on him. Morez Johnson right next to him and Yaxel Lindenborg who's going to be a first round pick. So the front court for Michigan is pretty much unparalleled. Alabama made every three they looked at in the last game. They were 19 for 40. At one point they were 19 for 38. So they were 50% from three. Zach, I think they emptied the clip at the last game. I don't think they're going to shoot at that level against Michigan. So I think Michigan rolls and I think the front court dominates this game.
- [87:21]
Zach Lowe
Who did Alabama beat in the last round?
- [87:23]
Tate Frazier
Alabama beat Texas Tech. Who their best player, J.T. toppin, got hurt this year. That was Caleb Wilson and J.T. toppin and Richie Saunders at BYU. Those are kind of the three big injuries that went into the tournament.
- [87:33]
Zach Lowe
Duke's got a big injury too, right?
- [87:35]
Tate Frazier
Yeah. So they have Caleb Foster, who's their starting point guard, but Kaden Boozer, Cam Boozer's twin, has stepped in and they Got a little twin connection going on, Zach, you know, and I think Kaden's playing some good basketball right now.
- [87:46]
Zach Lowe
They're a little young for it, but. Do either of the boozer twins need spray on hair at this point in their careers? I hope not.
- [87:52]
Tate Frazier
They look good. The hairline's looking strong for both, so, you know, maybe the mom helped out in that sense.
- [87:57]
Zach Lowe
So it sounds like you're picking Duke and you're picking Michigan. Michigan State, UConn Blue Bloods. Both teams have won national championships, plural, in UConn's case. So I think only one for Michigan State, despite the fact that they seem to overperform in the tournament every year. The most polarizing coach in all of sports, maybe in Danny Hurley. Or are we calling him Dan Hurley? What are we going with now?
- [88:22]
Tate Frazier
Yeah, he's going by Dan these days. He's changed the. The makeup. Yeah, he's now Dan Hurley.
- [88:27]
Zach Lowe
One time Zach Low show podcast guest. He was delightful. What. What should I be looking for here?
- [88:32]
Tate Frazier
Two psychopaths on the sidelines, which is a lot of fun to watch. Like we said, the characters and coaching in college basketball is pretty much unmatched at this point.
- [88:40]
Zach Lowe
And will d. Little dictatorship. Little dictators.
- [88:47]
Tate Frazier
That's what they are. And, you know, Dan Hurley has always kind of views himself as an outsider. He calls himself like a high school coach. He's not in the college coaching fraternity. He likes to have that chip on his shoulder. But there's only one coach in college that he has always said he admired and looked up to, and that's Tom Izzo. So this is sort of, you know, a nice moment where these two guys can. The officials are going to get berated so much in this game, Zach, that it's going to be all time. They had Mick Cronin in the last game, who's also a little dictator, who was going, you know, mania. He got teed up for sarcastically clapping. I don't know if you saw that. That was a nice moment.
- [89:18]
Zach Lowe
You know, I know nothing about him. Nothing. Like, I'm the worst kind of fan of every other sport than the NBA. I'm. I'm just. I. I go in cold. This. The. The press conference he had when he did the. I already made fun of it earlier on this podcast with Mo when he was like, are you raising your voice to me? I was like, I fucking hate this guy. So, like. So, like, he. I. I don't. But he. For all I know, he's fostered a hundred kids and, like, donated gazillion Dollars? I have no idea, but I don't like him.
- [89:45]
Tate Frazier
Yeah, I went to the Maui Invitational with him back in 2019, and, you know, I was asking him what he does for fun. You know, like, Tommy Lloyd's hanging out. He's drinking my ties. The Arizona coach, just like, super chill guy wants to go scuba diving. I'm like, mick, what do you do for fun? He's like, I've never been to a concert. I've never done this. I've never done that. I'm like, oh, this guy has zero fun. That is just who he is.
- [90:05]
Zach Lowe
I feel like that is so performative. Like, you definitely do something for fun. Like, you definite play online poker. There's just. You. Like, you don't have to be.
- [90:13]
Mo DeKil
I.
- [90:14]
Zach Lowe
Whatever. I. Sounds like a delightful guy to hang around with.
- [90:16]
Tate Frazier
Yeah, just a great hang, as we like to say. But yeah, this matchup between Izzo and Hurley, it's going to be a defense versus offense. Hurley, what he's been able to do with Luke Murray. Shout out to. Luke does a great stuff, running some, you know, impressive sets they've taken from some overseas teams, and I think there's a little bit of European DNA in what they run. I think that's sort of the fun thing to watch as far as, like, the way that they design plays and. And what Izzo's going to be able to do with their front court and some of their ball pressure. And then Jeremy Fears, the point guard for Michigan State is another one of those true point guards that kind of. He is the maestro of the Michigan State offense. And if Yukon's able to get some ball pressure on him, get him off his spots, I think UConn's going to be able to win this game.
- [90:54]
Zach Lowe
He is the older brother of Jeremiah Fierce, correct?
- [90:57]
Tate Frazier
Yes, exactly.
- [90:58]
Zach Lowe
NBA potential or no?
- [91:00]
Tate Frazier
I think so. I mean, he's had some tough moments. They call him the Draymond Green of guards, and Draymond took that as a compliment. Some people have said not so much a compliment. He's had a couple Chris Paul nutshots that have been a little bit questionable. One time he did a heel kick into a nutshot. One time he threw a punch. So he's had some questionable moments.
- [91:18]
Zach Lowe
Okay. All right. Was there any excusing either one of them, or were they both just clearly intentionally like, I'm going to knock this guy in the balls?
- [91:26]
Tate Frazier
I think the tape doesn't lie, but, you know, he. He claimed to be. It was an accident.
- [91:30]
Mo DeKil
Right.
- [91:32]
Zach Lowe
Luke Murray, is he going to be a head Coach one day.
- [91:36]
Tate Frazier
I've been waiting for it to happen. You know, I know Luke a little bit. I think he has sort of waited for the right job, but he loves what he's got going on at UConn. He and Kamani are kind of like the. The 1A, 1B coaches right there that they got a nice triangle with Dan Hurley. And of course, you know, when you win back to back national championships, it's hard to go and leave that sort of setup that they have. So Luke seems pretty content for now. I thought maybe this, you know, Providence, Syracuse, some of these jobs opening up in the Northeast, he might take a swing, but. But seems like he's okay and happy at UConn.
- [92:05]
Zach Lowe
They are both featured prominently in Dan Hurley's book, which is actually quite good. And that's when I had him on the podcast. It's about what an outsider he is and how unlikely all of this is that he's now the most successful coach in college basketball. But they're both. And Luke Murray, as I recall from the book, is sort of like the. Okay, Dan's being a maniac today. I'll take you aside and be the nice guy to you. Correct.
- [92:26]
Tate Frazier
It's a little good cop, bad cop for sure. Like Dan Hurley, like mother Fs you to the moon. And then Luke comes over and it's like, it's all right. You're playing hard. We love you. You know, got a little bit of. A little bit of that going on.
- [92:38]
Zach Lowe
Are we going to get Bill Murray at these games?
- [92:40]
Tate Frazier
Of course. Yeah. He's locked in always.
- [92:43]
Zach Lowe
Who's your pick?
- [92:44]
Tate Frazier
I'll take UConn in that game and
- [92:46]
Zach Lowe
then the last one. I mean, I literally know nothing about this one. Tennessee, Iowa State. Didn't know that either of these teams was really good at basketball. Don't know what's going on here. What do I got to look for?
- [92:56]
Tate Frazier
Rick Barnes. Four straight sweet sixteens. It was obviously a joke always about Rick Barnes in March. You can't trust him. But Rick Barnes has been trustworthy over the past few years. You got native men for Tennessee, who is a lottery pick and seems to be sliding in the wrong direction. I know Bill is not a big fan of native men. I think I was at the McDonald's game last year and I saw him and I thought he was a special type of player. Hasn't performed to that level, but he has gotten stronger. He's been able to deal with some physicality a little bit better. So I think Tennessee is a really good team. Iowa State. Have you seen TJ Otzelberger? He kind of wears this. He wears medium shirts like he's got big guns, and he wears, like, a small, medium T shirt. And he accentuates the arms quite a bit, which is. You know, he's got his own version of being a college basketball character. But defense is the name of the game for both these coaches. Iowa State's one of the best defensive teams in the country. Milan Mancialovich is a guy that you would like, a shooting specialist that I think will get looks at the next level. Joshua Jefferson, their best player, dealing with an ankle injury. Hopefully he's back for this game. If not this game, the next game. So that's a big storyline in this one. I would take Iowa State. I like their defense, and they've been playing some good basketball all year.
- [94:03]
Zach Lowe
Anyone with the itch at the end of their last name gets an extra look in. In my house. So we're going Duke, Michigan, Yukon, Iowa State in these games, all chalk. Who did you pick to win the tournament?
- [94:14]
Tate Frazier
Before the tournament, I picked Duke because, you know, it's. It's one of those things where Indianapolis 2010, Duke was able to make the run with Brian Zubeck, John Shire, Nolan Smith, a lot of illegal screens, all the way to a championship, as we remember, 2015, Duke, Indy, same deal, right? Kentucky UK was undefeated. They end up losing to that Wisconsin team, and then Duke backdoors their way into a national championship. So Indy, there's something there. I don't know if it's Bobby Knight related or what it is with Coach K and the Duke program, but I think this is a year for Duke. But like you said, Abd, hopefully somebody can stop him.
- [94:47]
Zach Lowe
St. John's baby, let's go. Tate Frazier, you're the man for lending us some wisdom and some time and a big. A big busy time of the year for you, apparently about to get busier, potentially, with the UNC News. Thanks for coming on, and I will. I might lock into a couple of these games and get some. Get some strong, uneducated opinions to bounce off you.
- [95:04]
Tate Frazier
It's gonna be fun. Just start live tweeting these games just to see what people's reactions are. You know what I mean? Like, that would be good.
- [95:10]
Zach Lowe
Let the hate flow. Let the love go. St. John's Tate Frazier. Thanks, bud.
- [95:14]
Tate Frazier
Of course, man. Anytime.
- [95:18]
Zach Lowe
All right, that's it for today's episode. We'll be back Thursday as usual with a new Zach Lowe show. Thanks to Mike, Billy, and Jonathan on production, as always, thanks to Mo De Kil and Tate Frazier for their time and energy. And thanks to you all for listening to and or watching the Zach Lowe Show. As always, we'll see you on Thursday 21 or over and President Select States for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President, D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling Problem Call 1-800-Gambler or 1-800-My Reset, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or is it mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland? Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-Hopeny or text hopeny in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867. Monster Energy Everybody knows White Monster Zero Ultra. That's the OG. It kicked off this whole zero sugar energy drink thing, but Ultra is a whole lineup now. You've got Strawberry Dreams, Blue Hawaiian Sunrise
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Mo DeKil
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Zach Lowe
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Tate Frazier
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Zach Lowe
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