← The Zach Lowe Show
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- [00:00]
Zach Lowe
All right, Coming up on an absolutely loaded Zach Lowe show.
- [00:04]
Wozniak
Whoo.
- [00:05]
Zach Lowe
NBA free agency. You thought it might be a little boring? It seemed like a little boring. And then bam. Right before we brought big wads on. The Milwaukee Bucks signed Miles Turner away from the Eastern Conference champion Pacers after losing Brook Lopez to the Clippers. And Dame Lillard gets waved and stretched. Then the Nuggets keep loading up. While we're live on this podcast, we react to that. We talk about LeBron. Oh, that was interesting. With the Lakers. That's LeBron. What does he. What does he actually want? What do the Lakers want? What should the Lakers want? Why is Dorian Finney Smith not on the Lakers anymore? The Rockets, we get into the Magic, the Spurs, the Knicks. Are they gonna finally have a coach? They made a signing while we were live on this podcast. Coming up. Boy, oh, boy. Who else? We talk about pretty much every team in the entire league, including Cacao, the Hawks, the just a loaded, loaded episode of the show because free agency has been so damn loaded. And I hope you enjoy it. And maybe we'll see you later in the week if there's more news, but this one. Memphis. Memphis. Talk a lot about Memphis And Jaren Jackson Jr. Pretty much any team you want to talk about. Mavs. D' Angelo Russell, we got you covered on this edition of the Zach Glow show, but we're headlining it with the Bucks and the Lakers and the Nuggets. Enjoy. Foreign. We delayed the recording by like 20 minutes when we were supposed to do it because my spidey senses about the Milwaukee Bucks were tingling. I wasn't sure what was up. I knew something was up. And boy, did we make the right call because in the last five minutes, the Milwaukee Bucks just signed Miles Turner away from the Indiana pacers on a four year, $107 million contract. My. My numbers may be off. We're just, we're just doing this on the. And Damian Lillard, in what has to be a devastating blow atop the devastating injury to a top 75 all time player, waved and stretched the last two years and $113 million of his contract by the Bucks to accommodate Miles Turner. The Bucks. The reason this all matters is because the guy hovering over all of this is Giannis, who's in Greece watching, monitoring. I like how everyone's monitoring these days. Giannis is monitoring the lake. The LeBron is monitoring the Lakers. Like, it's hard work to like. I'm monitor. I'm extra focused. Normally I would just be watching, but I'm monitoring. I'm monitoring. LeBron's monitoring. We're going to talk about that because I think Miles Turner and the Center Market is a good intersection. The Milwaukee Bucks have now retained Kevin Porter Jr. Where's my bucks notes? We're just flying by the seat of our pants. Gary Trent Jr. Torian Prince have now signed Miles Turner to replace the outgoing and beloved Brook Lopez, who went to the Clippers on a fantastic deal for the Clippers. I don't even know if we need to elaborate on that was we. We make of this. I get. Look, I'm not shutting the door on any Giannis stuff either way until he shuts it one way or another. But this certainly looks like a. Okay, we're rolling it.
- [03:17]
Wozniak
We're.
- [03:18]
Zach Lowe
We're retooling around you, big fella. What do you think?
- [03:21]
Wozniak
I mean, this is a desperation move. There's just no other way to put it. Like stretching Dame Lillard's money over the course of the next four years instead of two is, you know, it's understandable. The guy suffered a devastating injury, especially for somebody his age. It's the difference when Tatum does it or Halliburton does it. Guys in their 20s, Dame's in his 30s. To come back from this, the idea that he's to be any. Anything like the guy we saw in Portland, it seems tough to imagine that that would be the case. And more importantly for next year, by everything I know, you know, people who are familiar with how Giannis feels about this stuff, everything that I've ever heard about Giannis is he's dedicated to being competitive. He wants to compete. He doesn't want to play on middling, going nowhere teams. I think obviously Miles Turner is an upgrade for this team. Does it make them an actual contender? I just have a hard time believing, you know, Kevin Porter and Giannis and Miles Turner are, you know, some level of a Big three or something like that. But they definitely upgraded and they definitely, as management was like, look, we're not going to settle for just being an also ran. We want to be at least competitive next season. And, you know, I think this is a step in that direction.
- [04:46]
Zach Lowe
Ooh, it's a lot to digest. It's a heartbreaker for Dame, although maybe he ends up in a spot where it's better for him in a year.
- [04:56]
Wozniak
It's a heartbreaker at all.
- [04:57]
Zach Lowe
No, he gets his money.
- [04:58]
Wozniak
I mean, he gets paid and gets to pick his next shot, choose his next destination.
- [05:04]
Zach Lowe
You just don't, you know, once you get hit with the wave and stretch Buyout label. It's just changes your, your life a little bit. I think it's probably, it's not a heartbreaker for Miles Turner. But you know, we will talk about the Pacers and why the Pacers may have done this. Coming off a finals run, coming off a run where you're one game from the title and you knew looming was the luxury tax, this dude's a Pacer for life. He meshes great with Halliburton and I think the bet they're making is like any stretchy five or any five of any kind is going to mesh super well with Halliburton. Next year is a gap year. We qualified Isaiah Jackson, which I think that was the, that was the like, oh, alarm bell. Okay, maybe Miles Turner won't be here next year, but still sort of not a great. Just doesn't feel great to get that close to a title and then do this. But you know, at first glance, the Bucks are they contenders. They certainly skew big like Kuzma Portis, Giannis Turner are four of their top whatever players. Regardless of what you think of the Kyle Kuzma experience in Milwaukee, which was obviously dreadful, I would like to see them get and I suspect they will get another person who can like dribble the ball and play and play guard. I don't know who that's going to be, but look, they're going to be good with Giannis. Giannis plus shooting equals. What's your floor? 45 wins if everyone's healthy. I just, I still, they at first blush, they're still a perimeter player away from me being like, okay, now that's a team that could beat like the Cavs and then the Knicks in back to back playoff series.
- [06:39]
Wozniak
Yeah, I think this roster with a Dame Lillard on it, you'd be like, oh, okay, I love the front court mix. And Dame could basically shoulder the burden of carrying the perimeter. You know, organization, distribution and shot creating. As it stands again, even if you believe with the injured Halliburton for the season, an injured Tatum for the season, you know, the magic unproven. Same with Detroit, you're like, hey, I like my chances in the east to make some noise here. I just think the roster is still so paper thin. And if you're Giannis, if you really think you're competing at the top of this conference next year, that's good for you. If you're Milwaukee's ownership, I just don't believe it and I just don't see how the Giannis rumors don't persist into the trade deadline. If the standard is, hey, I want to be on a relevant team.
- [07:37]
Zach Lowe
Yeah. I mean the Hawks also got a lot better. I will save my cacao for for later. And I took note of, like I mentioned this on Saturday when I did a little solo pot. I took note that the Hawks acquired the rights to another Milwaukee draft pick because anytime there's a Milwaukee draft pick that gets turned to another place, my okay, I mean if Milwaukee ever wants to rebuild, they're going to need that stuff. Just saying, just putting it out there for my Hawks who are loading up was all right. Any, any Pacers related thoughts on the Miles Turner?
- [08:08]
Wozniak
I mean, it's just heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking. We go from a team that I thought was was going to win Game 7, I picked him to win Game 7, even despite Halliburton's injury limitations. Just felt like they had this special sauce going on with them. Something magical was happening to, you know, Halliburton goes down and they end up inevitably losing that game to now they're, you know, losing parts of the team. Although if I'm an Indiana fan, I think Kevin Pritchard and these guys have earned our respect and their ability to find guys and find relevant, consequential rotational players in places that we just would not have expected them to. And I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt that not to say they're going to replace Miles Turner. I think he's got a unique and special skill set and as you mentioned, at the top, like fit beautifully with what Halliburton wants to do. At the same time, I think they could bring in some talent and reorient the roster. Maybe don't play exactly as they did, you know, when they had Turner in their building, but they play just as effectively.
- [09:18]
Zach Lowe
I think Tyrese Halliburton made Myles Turner look better than he is. I think the Pacers knew that. I think the Pacers anticipated a rickety and unsteady offensive season from Miles Turner without Tyrese Halliburton to bend the defense all toward him and give him pick and pops and short roles and all that and decided his defense has been in decline for a little while. He's, he's just, he's decent now, but he's not the force that he was before. Let's just get ourselves some financial flexibility for the next Pacers team. Retain everybody else. Now I don't have to worry about do I have to dump Mather in to get under the tax. I can see what is this guy going to be. I don't have to dump toppin to get under the tax and maybe I can get by with more toppin. And se Akam is like a stretch four or five combination. At some point they will need to find somebody with some parts of Miles Turner skill set at the 5 to really contend again. But I, I get what they're doing. It, it's. It hurts. It hurts when you like. This is one of those things where you got to put yourself in the position of a Pacers fan who's like, that's the cool thing about being a sports fan is like you just, you get to love these guys. You learn all their foibles, all their quirks, everything about them. You know, their off court hobbies, you know, oh, they like that shot over there. Oh, he always misses this specific 12 footer this way. And then you got to go play. By the way, for the team that's been on the other end of the hottest rivalry in the NBA Bucks Pacers, there's been just all sorts. There's been ball gate and game time gate and all the gate. It's like it's. I got to watch him play for that. That sucks for the fans. It's tough, it's tough. Miles Turner also is on my mind because the other big story we're going to talk about is the Lakers and LeBron and I promise we will get by this as soon as possible. I was planning to lead off with the Denver Nuggets. I got maxi minor on my shirt today. So LeBron Opson releases. I don't even think a passive aggressive statement. I just think like an almost aggressive statement.
- [11:24]
Wozniak
Oh yeah.
- [11:25]
Zach Lowe
About team building and what he wants late in his career. Okay, sure. Then the Lakers maybe botch, maybe kind of intentionally mess up the Dorian Finney Smith situation. He walks to the Rockets who are just sure Rockets go off like, just get everybody, get four centers, get every offensive rebound, just, just get gigantic. And the off season, great fit in Houston, which we'll talk about. Replace him with Jake Laravia on a shorter deal and a cheaper deal. And by the way, I'll bet you I don't think the Lakers are wrong to think in three years Jake Laravia will be a better player than Dorian Finney Smith. I think that's a good bet. I still think Luka and LeBron are probably looking around like, who? Wait, who? Luka's like, well, I played with the Finney Smith. I went to the finals with that dude in Dallas. He's gone now and they still, we're recording this at 11:30 Eastern. They still do not have a viable center on the team, and the centers are running out, which is why I had my spidey senses up for, like, I knew Indiana was looking at this gap year scenario with Miles Turner, and I was like, is this what the Lakers are sitting on? Maybe. That. That would be certainly interesting. He's not a rim runner, but Luca has gone. Like, when the Mavs made the Finals, it was like, stretch five maxi Kleba. A lot of the conference finals, the first time was stretch five maxi Kleba. He can make any kind of center work, and now he's gone. Are we just looking at a DeAndre Ayton endgame with the Lakers here? And, like, what does that mean for LeBron? I look, he's LeBron James. He's going to dominate the discussion. I'm sorry, people, but, like, the Lakers are off to a little bit of a slow start here in free agency wise. Is that fair to say?
- [13:13]
Wozniak
Yeah, it is fair to say. And it's just the Rob Pelinka tenure as Lakers gm, head decision maker, allegedly. I think about the Rambises and all the people around Jeanie Buss who are influential. The AD movement was basically. He forced his way. Him and Rich Paul forced their way over there. This wasn't some grand plan by Rob Pelinka. AD forced his way over there. LeBron chose them. Nico Harrison called you, like, the one time I think Rob Pelinka did a good job for sure was the 19 off season where they got Danny Green and Dwight Howard and all these guys at the end after striking out on Kawhi Leonard, and everybody was like, oh, you guys are idiots. Look at your horrible moves. They ended up rounding out that roster quite nicely. Led to a championship. Outside of that, I personally can't think of a single thing Rob Pelinka's ever done as a GM that I was like, wow, that took some creativity. Wow, that took some foresight and some vision. Never, not once. However, I will say this. They've kind of been signaling to LeBron since the Westbrook deal that they're done doing things on his terms and Luca is just a different animal. Like, that fell into their lap. They had to do it. But it's like, LeBron, we're not dealing with your wants and your needs. You're 48 years old, sir. We get it. You're still productive. But we can't mortgage our future based on your needs and wants. And so I understand why LeBron wants to play For a winner, this is the twilight of his career. At the same time, if you're the Lakers and I think the Mark Williams deal was them being like, why are we doing that? You know, we have a longer Runway than we thought we did. Let's fall back from that and, you know, treat it like we have a 27 year old superstar and who we're orienting ourselves around and not one who's in his 40s and has played 23 seasons.
- [15:43]
Zach Lowe
So on Saturday, I said, keep an eye on the Finney Smith situation. That's going to be the tell for me for how the Lakers are thinking about things because I had heard negotiations are going badly and I said, like, would he even opt out? Do the Lakers even want to pay him? The answer to that turned out to be no. They didn't want to pay him and he opted out. And I don't think they ended on very good terms either. And then Dave McMenamin reported last night that the Lakers are trying to make sure they have cap space in the summer of 2027, when depending on who signs extensions in the next 72, 96 hours, there could be some amazing free agents or there could be some just good free agents. And LeBron doesn't care about the 2027 off season. LeBron doesn't care about any of that. Probably doesn't have a lot of strong takes on Jake Laravia, who I think is good, can shoot, can drive, can defend a lot of positions, whatever. He's much younger than Finney Smith and look like luka is what, 14 years younger than LeBron, 13 years younger than LeBron. LeBron opted in. I was watching ESPN yesterday and they were talking about how LeBron has control of the situation because he has a no trade clause. And he certainly has some control over the situation. Does he even want to be traded or does he want to be bought out? Was like, that's the question I have. But here's the thing. He doesn't have full control of the situation because he opted in. He is under contract to the Los Angeles Lakers who don't have to do anything else for him. He's under contract. And but I will say that statement from Rich Paul came out and I immediately everyone's initial reaction was, okay, this is LeBron's playbook. He, he uses the threat of his impending free agency to leverage his team into making win now moves trade all the picks. Give me Rodney Hood and George Hill and whoever else, you know, back in the day. And then after about 30 minutes I was Like, I think this is something more. I think this is, I think this is more than that because there's no player option on the other end of this. This is it. This is the end of the contract. And I don't know if it's because there was a disagreement over the, A potential longer term contract that obviously has not been signed by LeBron James, if it's been offered by the Lakers, if it's a broader philosophical, like, well, this is not my team anymore, and I don't, I don't like how that feels. But this began to feel to me and to people around the league less like the classic LeBron leverage play. Longer, longer view window, you know, like, I'll, I'll. We'll decide this in the summer. And veering into like, does he want to be on a different team like now? Like, what, what's your take?
- [18:28]
Wozniak
That's what it feels like. It feels like the opt in. Because also LeBron has multiple goals. We have to realize that, like, he wants to play for a winner, but most importantly, he wants to maximize his earning potential while in the NBA. Uh, this has been reported by a trillion people by now. But there's this idea that LeBron is like, I have never been paid my true market value because of weird salary cap stuff. Like when you remember the sign and trade with the Heat and he took a slightly, he took kind of a haircut and all this other stuff, but also because of max contracts. Like, when you think about the money that this guy's generated for the league itself, you know, and what he's been compensated, he sees it as, I, I'm done losing out on money, and at the end of my career, I'm going to cash in as much as I can. And the reason I'm saying that is, is if he really wanted to, he could have opted out of this deal, signed as a free agent with his club of choice.
- [19:37]
Zach Lowe
And anywhere you want to go, like you want, by the way, and not just for the minimum mid level tax. Mid level. You want to just, you want to just bank 6 million bucks because it's better than 2 million bucks. Bank it, man, whatever.
- [19:49]
Wozniak
Yes. But LeBron is like, nah, I'd rather get paid. That's that's the thing. Like, and there's no shame in that. No, right. Like, nobody would ever shame James Dolan for saying that. Nobody would ever shame an owner for being like, ah, well, I'd rather get paid. I'd rather keep money in my pocket. You know, when they come up with these draconian new second apron nonsense. All that is is them being like, I want to keep money in my pocket. Nobody begrudges the owners for that, so I'm not going to begrudge LeBron for it. However, I'm not going to fall for the propaganda that winning comes first because I don't believe that. I think getting paid comes first. And then it's like, all right, now that we secured the 52 million, let's figure out how we could leverage the Lakers into doing something with us, since they're not going to do anything for the actual current roster. And, you know, there's just a lot of problems or issues that you run into, especially with the new, you know, cap rules. Like, how does this guy move himself to another destination?
- [20:52]
Zach Lowe
Well, look, I went through and I built all my favorite fake LeBron trades. Rap Rapid Fire. Here they are. The two hottest teams on the rumor mill were Cleveland and Dallas. I don't know why Dallas, I guess. AD's there, Kyrie's there, whatever. I don't see any real. I mean, Cleveland, you can build realistic deals. I don't sense that there's an appetite to do that by the Cavs. Dallas, it has to be like a million players going out. Then you have another group of teams who are like, should we just wait for whatever happens with Giannis in six months or a year, if anything does happen with Giannis? And that's your Warriors, Spurs, Hawks, Knicks. To me, the Knicks are the most interesting one because they could sell it as like, if it's Anobi and Robinson or Anunobi and Bridge, some combination of Anobi, Bridges and Robinson. They could sell it as like, well, we get LeBron James and we're kind of actually sneakily cleaning up our books for like two or three years down the line, assuming it's a short term LeBron deal. But like, it's, it's just, it's a heavy lift and like Golden State. Are they going to trade Jimmy Butler for LeBron? I don't know. Is it a sign? And trade with Kaminga, then that becomes enormously complicated. I don't know that any of these are really realistic. Which is why I'm wondering if LeBron actually wants to go to the Lakers and be like, you just buy me out, buy me out. And I could stand wherever I want and, but, and if I'm the Lakers, I'm like, what's in that for me? So let me get this straight. I can buy you out and get no quality player in return and still have your dead money on the books for most of. Most of the cap hit. What's in that for us? He might be stuck. I mean, I never underestimate Rich Paul, and I never underestimate LeBron. Finding a way. Finding a way. But I don't know what. I can't see the way. Can you see a way?
- [22:46]
Wozniak
I honestly don't. And because LeBron has. Doesn't have a history of pulling a Jimmy Butler, if he had the stones to make everybody's life miserable in the Los Angeles Lakers facility, every single meeting, every single press conference, make an ass of himself at his own coffee shop, make jokes, do this. Does he have the intestinal or testicular fortitude? Because, you know, as a former WWE guy, does he have the testicular fortitude to be that kind of guy in the Lakers building? I don't think so. So I don't know how or why the Lakers agree to that. And maybe it is. Rich Paul has a great relationship with Jeanie Buss, and it's like, yo, Jeannie, man, we bought you a championship. We've done all of these great things. You're not even the owner anymore. Technically, this will be the other guy's problem. Do the right thing. Buy us out. Let us go be free agents. And woo. Boy, could you imagine, Zach, the frenzy around a LeBron James free agency after a buyout?
- [24:01]
Zach Lowe
Oh, my God. Well, maybe. I don't know if there would even be a frenzy. I think it would.
- [24:05]
Wozniak
I mean, it would be a media frenzy where he.
- [24:08]
Zach Lowe
It would just be like, I'm going there. Thank you. Gotcha. Maybe. Who knows? Chris Haynes, by the way, just tweeting. We're doing this in real time. Was. Yeah, just tweeting. Chris Haynes obviously is very tied to Damian Lillard, so read into that what you will. Milwaukee Bucks star Giannis Antentokounmpo is not pleased with the team's decision to waive Damian Lillard. These horses. Tell me. Tell Chris Haynes. I also have gotten several texts while we've been talking from front office people who are like, the Bucks did what with Dame Lillard's money. Like, they. They did. They left this much dead money on their books. And, like, this happened a minute before we recorded. So I haven't looked at, like, here's what all the stretch hits on their books are. You know, if Giannis is unhappy with how they treated Dame, then I don't know what to say to that other than, like, this is how you got Miles Turner. And I don't know, you know, I was Going to come on was because my spidey senses were tingling. My gut was going to be, they have some kind of trade lined up to turn Dame into a guy who will actually be on the floor for them next year. You know, I pit not I, I, I talked about this idea of a Dame for Bradley Beal trade that doesn't really make a lot of sense for Phoenix. I had some other ones like that. They essentially did that, but not by trading Dame, by waving and stretching Dame as their only vehicle to get a player that will help them next season. So I, I assume that will be conveyed to Giannis somehow, and he will get over it. But, you know, I'm just, I'm flagging that, obviously, because, again, the whole league's waiting on this. It's, it's, it's why, you know, I think he's the guy. Like, the spurs kind of sat out the Durant thing. Just, we're threading this beautiful needle of, I think we have a pretty good team right now that if some of our young guys pop a little bit, we could be a little better even than people expect in the short term. And we got all our powder dry or most of it for the long term window with one Banyama. I think Giannis is a harder conversation for them. I think they'd be much more inclined to be like, all right, should we actually go all in for this guy? So, I don't know. So Giannis is unhappy with the damn thing. I don't know. What do you, I don't know what to make of that. I, I, I don't make much.
- [26:19]
Wozniak
I don't make a lot of it. I think Giannis definitely wants people to know that he backs his teammate. I don't know that he's, like, in a deep depression that a guy who, again, cannot play next year cannot help the team win. And I get it. There is a certain level of prestige and ego that comes into the idea, like, whoa, you're, like, waving and stretching this guy who was a cornerstone of our team while he was here, who.
- [26:50]
Zach Lowe
Came back from deep vein thrombosis to make a gutty playoff run and immediately suffered a catastrophic injury.
- [26:56]
Wozniak
Yeah, like, damn, that. There's a little bit of, you know, coldness, a chilliness to that, to that move. At the same time, I don't know that this is something you like. When you look at the roster before this and after this, are you like, oh, this is like, kill. Like, I don't understand why you'd be so much worse or more angry or angrier at this. Like, I don't, I don't get that. I think. I just, I don't buy that. Sorry.
- [27:26]
Zach Lowe
Okay, back to the Lakers for all the, like, whatever is going on. Like, I understand the defensive limitations of a Luca plus Reeves plus LeBron at age 40, whatever triumvirate, I understand they do not have a real center currently. I assume they will rectify that somehow. Like, this is. It's not like, it's not like this is some sort of also ran. Like, doesn't LeBron have any confidence in himself and Luka Doncic and Austin Reeves to be like, hey, we actually could. Like, Rui's good. We got some real stuff here. Like, we're the third seed last year. Yeah, we got rolled in the first round, but I got her. Luka was like, maybe not in the best shape and still acclimating. Like, why am I, why should I look at this as like, well, we have no shot if we get a center that's viable. And to me, if Ayton is the answer, like, I don't really like that answer. I don't think, like, Ayton is. Ayton came into the league as this, like, unmolded piece of clay. Like, what kind of offensive player is he going to be? He can stretch it out a little bit. He's got the size to be a rim runner. He could facilitate a little bit from the elbow. What direction is he going to veer in? And the answer has been like, none of those directions. Like, he's not a stretch five for Luka. He's not a rim runner. He gets one free throw every couple of weeks. Like, he puts no pressure on the rim. I don't know what he wants to do other than give himself nicknames and get paid and talk about he's a max contract player to me. Like, Luka wants a rim runner. He ain't that. Okay, He's a stretch. No, he ain't that. So if that's the answer, I get the frustration. But it's not like this is some team of chumps that he's on. Like, you know, there are better teams, sure. But like, how about, how about making it work? And like, look, this makes me uncomfortable to say was, you know what? Look, how about making it work? And they and the team did draft your son and pay him like full freight for as a second round pick. I mean, that did happen. And that, like, we know why that happened.
- [29:25]
Wozniak
Look again, LeBron has a certain level of cache with the front office. I think one of the chips he cashed with them. In terms of, yo, man, scratch my back here was to get his son. It wasn't like, yo, go out and get a viable NBA player. He didn't use all his equity with the team and management to get a piece that could help. He was like, yo, man, a heartwarming. I love my kid. I want to be around him. I think this is a great story on my team. Like, that's what you use. That's why it's, like, it's hard for me. It feels like a lot of times LeBron is talking out of both sides of his mouth. Is it about winning or is it about these other things? And again, I'm not going to begrudge LeBron for wanting to play with his son. It's a beautiful story. I'm not going to be. I'm especially not going to begrudge him after four championships, four MVPs, all the stuff he's done in the NBA to be like, I want to get paid. I don't. But this idea that I believe that winning is the number one priority, I think that's. I think that's overdone and oversaid.
- [30:39]
Zach Lowe
Well, also, getting paid. And again, he opted into 52.5 million. He's probably worth more than that even now at age 40. That's how great LeBron is.
- [30:49]
Wozniak
And when you consider he's one of the few draws individually in the NBA.
- [30:53]
Zach Lowe
Yes, he might be worth three times more than that to the Lakers. I don't know what the. What the Math is. He's LeBron James. He's either the best or the second best player of all time. Maybe I should say that more emphatically, but he's LeBron James. But part. I said this. I say this about every player who does the thing where they're under contract and they just decide not to play. And I'm not saying LeBron will do that. It's like you said, I don't think that's in his DNA at all. Part of being under contract. Like, it's like. It's like that's what the money's for from Mad Men. It's like, hey, man, you're getting paid 52 and a half million dollars like to play for the Lakers. It's a contract with the Lakers. So I don't know where we go from there.
- [31:31]
Wozniak
Also. But, Zach, also, it needs to be said, you're getting $52 million to be the reason why we win. If we're not winning and you're our Highest paid player. Part of that is on you. You're not the type of player who drives as much winning as you used to. Like this is just common sense. Like I think about, you know, because I've been a mega fan of LeBron James since 2002, probably I think about the 2009 Cavaliers. That version of LeBron would look at this Laker roster and be like, championship, let's go, let's go. We're getting to the Finals. Like it's, it's also like, have some self awareness about what you are able to do. You got outplayed by Julius Randle in the playoffs last year. That's not as much as. I don't think Rob Pelinka's in the top half of good GMs in the NBA. Like that's just a fact. Julius Randle cooked your ass in the, in a, in a playoff series last year. You know, like, if you're better than that, we win more games. So this is like a certain level of passing the buck here that I don't really want to hear from LeBron. Like, no excuses. Play like a champion, bro. Like, you're one of the highest paid players in the league. You think you're still one of the best. Go out and put, do it on the court and be the reason why the Lakers are overachieving and actually winning more than even you think they can next season.
- [33:07]
Zach Lowe
Now if Ayton ends up being the center of choice and Lopez is gone and Turner is gone and Capella is gone and on and on and on, I do think he's correct in assessing, like, look, at this point, me, Luca and Reeves, we may not add up to more than the sum of our parts. And we just saw The Thunder win 68 games in the title and they're just going to get younger. I mean, they're going to get a little bit more experienced and better and more loaded. And you know, Denver's back and Houston's loaded and all this, like, if I could get yeast, that's. Life gets a lot easier. But anyway, enough about the Lakers. They have any parting thoughts on the Lakers? Is there anything we didn't cover?
- [33:42]
Wozniak
I would say this when LeBron, by the way, we did this the season before at the trade deadline. Remember LeBron's little dalliance with the Knicks and the warriors, rumors out there, blah, blah, blah. And I remember at the time thinking, look, LeBron for Julius Randle and some other. I like that. I love that for the Knicks. I still like it for the Knicks. Trade LeBron for Cat straight up. Like salaries, they play the same position. Functionally, Cat is not a center, although he can play center. Trade LeBron for cat straight up, make him your starting power forward. I'd love to roll with that. OG LeBron, Mikhail Bridges, Brunson, a healthy Mitch. Come on, who says no to that.
- [34:25]
Zach Lowe
Now that's fun because I was putting together these other trades with Kat still being there because partly I'm like, is Mitchell Robinson ever going to be dependable to be on the court to be like my center? And I mentioned financial relief being one of the sneaky reasons that the Knicks might do it.
- [34:41]
Wozniak
You get financial relief from that Cat deal, that's for sure.
- [34:45]
Zach Lowe
Like Kat, as I've mentioned before, sneakily up for a a contract extension and already is. Let me get my cap sheet up here. And that extension is going to be after or based on a player option for $61 million in 2028. Yeah, that situation is one to monitor. I like that. Okay, let's talk about a team that's near and dear to our hearts was the Denver Nuggets made the most interesting trade of day one of free agency, trading Michael Porter Jr. Who has two years left on his contract, about 70 mil total or 70 something million. 70. Almost 80 million total actually for Cam Johnson who makes $17 million less, which is very important for tax purposes. And they incentivize the deal by including their unprotected 2032 first round pick. It's currently 2025. Nikola Jokic will be like 38 years old, 37 years old by the time that pick conveys. That's a nice little asset for the Nets who are building something. I don't know what the hell is going on there, but they just got a lot of players. Cam Johnson replaces Michael Porter Jr. Presumably in the starting five and Bruce Brown comes back on the veterans minimum back. Yeah, Russ, we don't know dj, we don't know. Backup center. They, I don't know, maybe day Ron Holmes takes that spot. But Cam Johnson for MPJ and the unprotected first round pick, that's some back end risk. Woz, what do we think?
- [36:17]
Wozniak
I love it. I'm a plus plus for me. I get it in the sense that a pick eight years into the future, that's a real genuine thing that they gave up. That's a real asset asset that they gave up there. But in terms of trying to maximize the Jokic era, to me this is a no brainer for a dude who makes half as much as Michael Porter Jr. And I think it's better suited to how they actually want to play. Um, I just think this guy's mind works faster on the court. Like he's just a quicker thinker, quicker decision maker, just quicker than Porter Jr. Is obviously a less talented guy. Porter Jr. Is damn near seven foot, has one of the best jump shots in the NBA. Top five jump shot in the NBA. You know, at the same time, like, don't ask him. Close your eyes. When this guy dribbles the ball or tries to do anything that isn't catch and shoot, or maybe one little slight dribble, create a little bit of space and shoot over a smaller guy.
- [37:20]
Zach Lowe
Maybe it's an offensive rebounder too. When he feels like it, you know?
- [37:24]
Wozniak
Yes, when he feels like it. That's the thing, you know, Cam Johnson somehow a better playmaker than Porter Jr. Like, I would say if he's not on the level of defensive player, he's probably a better player. I know we're done calling cam Johnson a 3&D guy. Like we said this on group chat. Like, if you actually watch this guy, even in the, you know, the sun's days, the three, the D was a bit of a stretch, but I just think he's just such a better fit for how they want to play him. And Jokic mind meld is going to be beautiful to behold, and I think it's going to be pretty instantaneous. And I like the fact that they now get to use the full mid level to try to round out the roster and turning MPJ into two rotation players. I think it's just so key because that's what was missing in that OKC series where they were just trying to find minutes and stop gap minutes. And now I think they could do that quite beautifully.
- [38:25]
Zach Lowe
Yeah. Bottom line, number one, they just turned one player into two, which we just spent the whole playoffs being like, man, if they just had one more guy, who. Well, they got one more guy. Bruce Brown was like, all right, I got paid. I got paid like $48 million last two years.
- [38:42]
Wozniak
Give me back to Jokic.
- [38:43]
Zach Lowe
Give me back to Y. Man, I need those cuts. I need those offensive rebounds. I need it all. I need to play a little backup point guard. And they still have. Look, I will like this deal better. I think I was going back and forth with some cap nerds about bonuses and how bonuses count. I think they still have a piece, if not all, of the baby mid level exception, the tax mid level exception. If that's true, spend that mfer, man, it's the, it's Jokic. Spend it. I like what you're doing so far. You're saying to hell with the future, help us now, but spend that and I will love the team because that gives you a more of a buffer against like hey look, Watson, Pickett, Tyson, Strother, Holmes. Like those dudes may make leaps of varying degrees next year, but like we can't count on three. Three of them being like 18 minutes a game at the playoffs. Ready? Bruce Brown. We know player X on the non tax mid level ring chaser, whoever that ends up being, we should know. But look, I'm with you on I've been a Michael Porter Jr. Defender. He's.
- [39:45]
Wozniak
I've been opposite.
- [39:46]
Zach Lowe
Well, I just think you can't like the dude is an A++ shooter who can shoot over pretty much anybody who's guarding him at any time and fits with Jokic. I just think Cam Johnson is a better fit for the Nuggets regardless of price. Just if I had to boil it down to one stat was this would be it. I looked this up on the second spectrum tracking data last night. Michael Porter Jr. 4 drives for 100 possessions for the Nuggets and he's been about that level his entire career. It's hard to be a heavy minute starter who touches the ball a fair amount and average four drives per 100 possessions. Now Cam Johnson isn't exactly SGA, but he's at 11 drives. That's insane. Possessions and the numbers are really good in terms of his efficiency. He's just, they just need someone who can keep it moving a little bit and not be like a crushing defensive liability. And Michael Porter Jr's feet and inability to get low in a stance may be related to his back injuries. When he wasn't 100 million percent engaged, he was the kind of defensive liability that's like they're hunting him. The smart teams are going to hunt him all the time. And by the way, if they're not hunting him, they're hunting Jamal Murray and that's just maybe too much defensive weakness around our ecosystem. I think Cam Johnson is going to be an awesome fit in Denver. Oh, breaking Denver news. Apparently Sacramento is trading Jonas Valencunas to Denver for Dario Sarich. There's my backup center. Problem solved right there. Let's get, let's get some. Let's go double big with Jokic and Valentunas at the same time and just beat the hell out of everybody. I told everyone the Kings. Don't underestimate the Kings. Sarich was a mistake. He's dead money. They turned him into a guy who we know can be on the floor for 12 minutes a game in the playoffs and not sink your ship. Like every non Jokic lineup has been a sinking ship for 10 minutes. Boy, oh, boy, the Nuggets. This was my big. When I did my biggest free agency questions of the off season that were not Giannis and KD related with Rob Mahoney, my number one was, can the Denver Nuggets finagle away to improve their team? Because everyone's like, oh, they're stuck. They got no assets. They can't trade this guy. They can't trade that guy. The answer is a resounding yes. That's now three. Three new guys who could, we know can play in the playoffs. In the door and one out was, this is an A for the Nuggets.
- [42:17]
Wozniak
This is an A in so many senses. One. I thought, not. Not that I thought the thinking around Denver before going into the playoffs was like, yo, they're probably going to try to get somebody, like, actually a star next to Jokic this offseason. Then they take the champs to seven games, gave them as big a fight as anybody, and it's like, wait a minute, we're right there. We need to retool this thing around Jokic. And I'm like, all right, they're going to try to retool. It seems like the. The options are going to be limited. They go into the off season, you know, there's whispers out there that they might try to get Bob Myers, which I thought was a. Was a joke, like, you would actually have to pay that guy. You know, they bring in two guys who have already been with the organization, have great reputations, but at the freaking press conference, the owners talking about, oh, man, I might have to trade Jokic one day, did not make me feel good.
- [43:17]
Zach Lowe
Zach, is there no media training anywhere anymore in the NBA? Like, just like, how are these people saying these things into microphones?
- [43:25]
Wozniak
Insane. And if you paid attention to the press conference, they kind of rope a dope, this Zach. They were like, ah, doesn't feel like there's that much we could do to reshape the roster. We're probably going to come in with a little. With a few tinkers.
- [43:40]
Zach Lowe
See, I don't pay attention to the press conferences unless someone says something that makes me like, are you insane? That's the only thing I see.
- [43:47]
Wozniak
They tried to say, oh, there was just no way for them to do anything this offseason. Now they've definitely reshaped and retooled in a meaningful way. Zach, like, this is meaningful. You know, when DJ was getting playoff minutes, there was a game against the Clippers in the first round where he was like, actually, like, kind of good. And I was texting everybody I know. I was like, what am I watching? What is happening? You know, DeAndre Jordan looks like an actual serviceable player, but you were holding your breath every time he came into the game. That's not going to be the case with Valanchunas. Like this guy. If you're asking him to give you 10, 11, tough, hard, rugged minutes in big spots like, he. He can deliver that for them. So this is like, this is a great off season for the Nuggets, man.
- [44:36]
Zach Lowe
I'm looking up the King's salary table here because I want to see how. Refresh my memory on how much JV makes. He's at 10, 3, 9, 5, and Dario is at 5 something. So that essentially is their non tax mid level. I think they will be right up against the tax after that. They've paid the tax, I believe the last three years. So they would actually be somewhat wise to be like, that's actually. We're a good enough team. We found a way to get that player. They're probably about done. Awesome. If I'm Jokic, I'm like, this is great. Like, this is. This is as good a possible score as you could have outlined for me. Throw the extension my way. If the fax machines work in Sobore, if I get it, if I check my email at the bar or he's.
- [45:19]
Wozniak
Not doing a document signed. We don't got y.
- [45:22]
Zach Lowe
If the WI fi at the bar is working today. I'm a veteran of the Balkan bar scene. I know how it is. You know, I. I'll. I'll sign that. I'll sign that extension. By the way, one of the reasons I like this trade is I. An exercise I did this morning was if I had the. If, if, if I took that package of Michael Porter Jr. With two years left on his deal and that unprotected pick around the league, could I get a better player than Cam Johnson? And I'm not sure I could. So here are the names that I came up with. Zach Levine makes a lot more money than Cam Johnson. It's complicating my tax ability and my ability to get guys like jb, the Celtics guys not going to get it done. And they're. And Jalen is enormously expensive. That's not nearly good enough. To get into conversation. Devin Booker, not available. Paul George. Do I want that contract? Interestingly, this is the craziest one. Zion makes exactly the same amount of money, more or less as Michael Porter Jr. But you can't trade enough protective pick for that dude. I. The more I looked at it, the more I was like, I think Cam Johnson is kind of the perfect guy for what they needed and what he costs. And I wish I had seen it coming because now it seems obvious.
- [46:34]
Wozniak
The only thing I want to. The only player I want to throw in there, because my DMVR guys, who, by the way, I want to issue an apology to the art department of the DMVR company out there. My guys, Adam Mahrez and D Line, who I think is the art director up there. I'm Puny integrity of the art department said they lifted shams Instagram graphic for breaking news. Turns out I was wrong. I was scrolling so fast, it looks so similar. So I just wanna say sorry to you guys for impugning your integrity, your artistic integrity. That being said, like a month ago they threw out the idea of trying to get Trey Murphy from New Orleans around a Michael Porter Jr. That's his name. I would have loved that. But I think this is a great slight downgrade. I think Trey Murphy we could say is better than Cam Johnson. But shoot, man, this is, this is good. This is, this is great. This is a way more well rounded, well balanced lineup now. And now when the when or if the which, by the way, Peyton Watson, I think is like, he's made himself into a bona fide rotation NBA player.
- [47:52]
Zach Lowe
He's decent. He just needs to shoot it a little better to get from 15 minutes a game, like, hopefully we get good Peyton Watson in the playoffs to like, okay, 20 minutes a game.
- [48:01]
Wozniak
And we know we're counting this guy, right? Like, maybe you're not a Jaden McDaniels, but you know, like you're inching in that direction. Right? Um, they're just such. Such a. Well, more well balanced roster from top to bottom. And now if Strow or these other guys end up popping next regular season, and I think, you know, to management's credit, I think Adelman is actually going to let those guys try to become reliable players next year. You just have to be very, very happy. If you're a Denver Nuggets fan this.
- [48:38]
Zach Lowe
Morning, you gotta be thrilled. Trey Murphy's a great name. It's a great call. I'll bet you New Orleans would have wanted more just, just because of what they've Invested.
- [48:47]
Wozniak
Would Jody have wanted.
- [48:50]
Zach Lowe
No comment wise. I got one more question for you.
- [48:52]
Wozniak
Let's go.
- [48:54]
Zach Lowe
Are the Mets cooked? What's happening? How do you go from the best record in baseball to 3 and 13 over 16 games getting slaughtered by the freaking Pirates? What's going on? Educate me.
- [49:06]
Wozniak
You know, it's the same thing. I think the rotation was the biggest issue coming into the season. And that part of it has just. They cannot get outs at this point. And, you know, I'm reading the Mets writers, there's like rumblings that maybe there's a cavalry on the way. We'll see. I know ownership is always willing to spend and do what it takes, but my goodness, I went from riding a high every time I would get a notification from the athletic, right. Because I'm subscribed to the Mets. So after every Mets game I get a push notification. I went from, ah, another Mets win to oh my God. As soon as I look up at my phone, I know that they lost. It's. It's really disheartening. 3 and 13. Jesus Christ. It's even worse than I thought it was.
- [49:53]
Zach Lowe
It's crazy though, what you just said.
- [49:54]
Wozniak
There was nine straight at one point.
- [49:56]
Zach Lowe
I'm getting back into it and it's crazy what you just said. Like, every time I look at the schedule, I'm like, oh, they're going to lose tonight. Like, I just. I'm immediately back to like, they suck now. I don't understand what happened. They just sucked. They can't beat anyone. It was all smoke and mirrors. They were 21 games over.500.
- [50:10]
Wozniak
No, I don't think it was all smoke and mirrors. I just think, you know, the season is long. There's going to be ebbs and foes. If last season taught us anything, things turn around really quickly in the mlb. I think they can be fine. I think obviously they need to get some arms in the building off of the injury list. But yeah, this has been a very disheartening stretch.
- [50:35]
Zach Lowe
All right, Wise, what's next for you when you go back on group chat? I know you guys posted something overnight, I think.
- [50:40]
Wozniak
Yes, we did. We did something quick on free agency last night. We're going to do something on Thursday, I think, to just round it all out. Cause I guess apparently the news just doesn't stop coming and yeah, man, just looking forward to that. Going to NBA Summer League again. Looking forward to running into guys like you and all of our colleagues around the league, man, our team friends, our agent friends, all of that stuff. So, yeah, Man, Looking forward to the rest of the summer.
- [51:07]
Zach Lowe
I will be at summer league for five days. My one request is like, was I'm washed up and old man, give me a fun night out in Vegas. Show me a spot I don't know about. Take me somewhere I'd never been before. Let me, let me live it up, okay?
- [51:22]
Wozniak
This is so easy. This is about the easiest thing anybody's ever asked me to do. Let's have a good fun night in Vegas. We gonna have a great dinner, great cocktail place, you know, listen to some loud music somewhere. Might end, it ended at the, you know, the craps table or blackjack, whatever's your preference. This is, this is so easy to achieve in the city of Las Vegas.
- [51:47]
Zach Lowe
Because I got spots in Vegas. I think your spots are different than my spots. And so I want to show me your spots. All right, Waz, man, let's do it. Thanks, buddy. Of course, man.
- [51:56]
Wozniak
This was awesome.
- [51:58]
Zach Lowe
This episode is brought to you by HubSpot. In the playoffs, extra possessions are everything. Same goes for growing a business. And HubSpot's customer platform gives you more chances to win Breeze. Their built in AI automatically takes care of marketing, sales and service tasks so you can game plan for growth. It's easy, efficient, and most importantly, it's effective. Customers are cutting sales cycles in half and getting hours back each week. That's like turning those contested jumpers into clean looks at the rim. Visit HubSpot.comai to learn more. All right. To help us digest the rest of the off season. The greatest to ever do it live from the West Coast. John Hollinger. How are you?
- [52:39]
John Hollinger
I'm doing great. Thanks for having me on the show.
- [52:40]
Zach Lowe
Zach of the Athletic, I should say John Hollinger of the Athletic and Hollinger and Duncan and many other illustrious things. The Miles Turner to Milwaukee slash dame being waved and stretched happened right when Woz and I started recording. What is your hour later snapish take on this stunning turn of events.
- [53:01]
John Hollinger
It was a drunken way to wake up on the west coast like the coffee's still hitting. And like, what? Wait, what, What? What are we doing here? The butterfly flapping its wings that turned into this. Hurricane Andrew Nemhard's extension last year. Two years and 56 million in new money, which seemed a little excessive even for his playoff success. But most importantly, turned a $2 million salary for this year into an $18 million salary, which if you're the Indiana Pacers, you can't act like you're the Clippers with Steve Ballmer. If you're not actually that team and that owner, you knew that it would. It would create an impasse this year where they would be a potential tax team and have to make some very hard decisions. And the decision they made was that it cost them Miles Turner, basically.
- [53:52]
Zach Lowe
And I don't think they make that decision. If Tyrese Halliburton is healthy, I think they eat the tax if Tyrese Halliburton is healthy.
- [53:58]
John Hollinger
I think that's probably true, but. Or are they cheap out in some other way, like trade Obi Toppin or something? But the fact is, they don't have Turner for next year either. Now, like, they gotta come up with the center somewhere. And how do they do that with the means they have at their disposal going forward? I don't know. Maybe if they're bad enough this year, they can trade that 26 pick they got back from the Pelicans. Thank you, Pelicans. They also greased this with their move during the finals right before Halberton got hurt. Wonderful week for the. For the Pelicans. They've done much more for the Pacers and Hawks than they have done for themselves, unfortunately. But as far as Milwaukee goes, I will say this is extremely bold. Obviously, this is a way to keep Giannis on side, right? That is the driving motivation here, clearly. And you move off of Lillard, you have a $22 million dead cap hit with him. Well, I mean, they're experienced with this with Kuzma, so it's just another one.
- [55:07]
Wozniak
Whoa.
- [55:08]
Zach Lowe
Kuzma's like, why?
- [55:09]
John Hollinger
What?
- [55:12]
Zach Lowe
Why?
- [55:15]
John Hollinger
So they. They get turn. They're losing Brook Lopez, too, though, so they get Turner. The backcourt is still very much a question mark. I guess they think KPJ can start. You got Gary Harris on a minimum. You got some other minimum guys. You got Gary Trent back on a. On what is a value deal. But that the 1, 2, 3 positions would deeply concern me if. If I were Milwaukee.
- [55:43]
Zach Lowe
Is it just 60% of every lineup would concern you a little bit?
- [55:47]
John Hollinger
Yes, exactly. You wonder if at some point they would look at moving Bobby Portis to supplement that backcourt, since they have him back, too. I mean, the front court is so strong, right, with. With Giannis, Turner and Portis, and. But they're just so top heavy right now. Now everyone in the east is looking at the conference, though, and thinking, well, if we just. If we're just like 500 level good, that might get us to the conference finals this year. So.
- [56:14]
Wozniak
So.
- [56:15]
John Hollinger
Which is a little bit of an exaggeration, maybe, but I think that's the place where a lot of this logic is starting from that people think they don't have to be that good to potentially make a run in next year's beaten down Eastern Conference.
- [56:28]
Zach Lowe
Speaking of which, our next team in line. Queue it up. Queue it up. The sound. Well, that's just me, the Atlanta Hawks. Out goes Terence Mann, George N, Clint Capella, maybe some other guys. Definitely Caris Lavert in Nikila. Alexander Walker, Kristof Sporzingis, Luke Canard, Asa Newell, John Hollinger. Are you booking finals hotel reservations in Atlanta yet for next June?
- [56:57]
John Hollinger
I don't because I have a house there.
- [56:59]
Zach Lowe
Oh, that's right. So just to review, starting five projected Trae Young, Dyson Daniels. Thanks, Pelicans. Zachary Risache, Jalen Johnson, Anu. I'm putting him in the starting five bench. I got Na Canard, Mo Gay, maybe Porzingis at backup center. Then I got Kobe Buffkin, VEED Kre. I think what my big need going into July 1, June 30 was if you're going to lose leverture, I either need Levert or some equivalent kind of wing.
- [57:34]
John Hollinger
Yes.
- [57:35]
Zach Lowe
I think Alexander Walker is even better fit for their team than the vert would have been.
- [57:40]
John Hollinger
Yes.
- [57:40]
Zach Lowe
And I love Canard as like another wild card kind of ingredient. And I think between those guys and Jalen Johnson being on the floor when Trey Young is on the bench, I think you can manufacture point guard by committee in case Kobe Buffkin is not ready for that kind of role. I think this team is really good. Like, I don't know what the over under on their win total is going to be. I'm probably going to take the over. I think they still have a little bit of salary room. You can educate me on that. Like a little bit of something to spend. But I think this team has done a fantastic job for the last two years digging out of the Dejounte Murray trade and now putting together a team that if Trae Young continues to evolve a little bit, bit by bit each year. I don't want to belabor that. I've talked about a lot. I think this is a legit, really good team that is like, I don't know how I like. I think they're really good. I don't know, but I don't know what else to say.
- [58:35]
John Hollinger
I. I think they're going to be good. I think they can play Porzingis and Akon Wu together at times the same way they did with Al Horford in Boston. I think that'll really work. So between those three front court guys, Johnson, Porzingis and Akanu, they can have them in any alignment and it basically works regardless of who is the starter. So I think that part is really good. They're still sitting on that lottery pick they got from the Pelicans on draft night. Unbelievably, they could put that in a trade and upgrade a roster spot too. I think the concern part right now is that small forward position. I mean Reese Sachet was the number one pick last year, so of course he had to start and play and whatnot. Came on a little toward the end of the year. But was he starter level good if he hadn't been the number one pick? No, he was not. So can they get a second year jump from him and if not, what are they doing about that position? I. I'd say that looms is the one kind of weakness a little bit. Will they. I mean they probably close games. As I look at it with Alexander Walker and Daniels at the 2 and 3.
- [59:41]
Zach Lowe
I was gonna say that that's the, that's the way to go I think as currently constructed and they could paper.
- [59:46]
John Hollinger
That over a little. The thing I like about pairing Canard with Alexander Walker off the bench is when Alexander Walker just has to be the point guard and create stuff. It. It's too much and bad things happen. Kennard low key, has a lot of on ball utility. I mean he can pass, he can play out of pick and roll. So really good secondary handler there. I think they'll have Jalen Johnson in the non tre minutes like they did last year. So I think that's a way to get through that because as you said, the biggest dilemma with the Hawks is, has always been how do we score when Trey is off the floor and how do we stop anybody when Trey is on the floor. And I think they've gotten some really good answers to both of those questions over the last two years. So now the question is more. You look at this roster, it's eight deep and then it goes off a cliff. So can they get some more guys with minimums exception money? They actually still have some money to play with here. They still have the $13 million bogey exception. They got some other tools they probably won't spend into the tax, but they still have room below the tax. So it's. They. They're still in a really interesting situation and like I said, if they really want to push chips in, they're still sitting on that pick. That's. That's pretty valuable where they could do something at mid season potentially.
- [61:00]
Zach Lowe
Well as you noted in your recent column and I noted on Saturday on my mini podcast, I just flag it when any team acquires a Bucks pick. And I know the Bucks have have done big things today probably to appease Giannis. Hope we'll see what happens in a few months at the trade deadline. Okay, team number two I want to talk about the Rockets who swiped Dorian Finney Smith from the Lakers. Got another center in Clint Capella. They have three centers now that are rotation worthy. Resigned Aaron Holiday and Jayshawn Tate and Jeff Green and I don't think those should be slept on, particularly Holiday as a guy who could play an important role on this team. But if you're going to project out the starting five. Van Vliet Thompson, Jabari Smith Jr. Extension. I love no notes. I think he's a winning player. I think that's a fair price for the Rockets and I think it's a fair deal for him locking in all that money. Durant, Shen Goon on the bench. I got Reed Shepherd, Dorian Finney Smith who can obviously start in the pinch if I want to go that way, Tari Eason and then I just figure out the backup for any way I want play one of the starters, whatever. And Adams and Capella they clearly I think are going as for as far in as any team can be on playing two centers together. They believe in the Shen Adams magic that happened last year. I assume Capella will fit into that and allow them to load manage Adams for, for the for the year. And they just have like Finney Smith is not as well equipped to defend like point guards as he is to defend bigger wings. They have guys who can defend point guards for him like Amin Thompson and Fred Van Vliet and maybe Tari Eason you can quibble with. Like are they almost. I don't. I don't know if there's such a thing as being too big actually when they're this fast and this athletic. I just, I think this team between the Rockets and what the Nuggets did and I talked with was about that. I think they come in two and three in the west with a bullet right now. I don't, I have no criticism of the Rockets off season. I think it's been a home run all the way around.
- [63:09]
John Hollinger
I think it's been really good. I do wonder how this is actually going to play out on the court. I mean there are no real wings on this team and there is one point guard that they trust.
- [63:19]
Zach Lowe
Well is what Is Eason, what is Finney Smith and what is Amen Thompson? Are they not wings? Are they just everything's.
- [63:26]
John Hollinger
If you, if you were building a team from scratch, you would have all of them at the four.
- [63:31]
Zach Lowe
Okay.
- [63:33]
John Hollinger
Right.
- [63:33]
Zach Lowe
But do I mind?
- [63:35]
John Hollinger
Especially with the lack of shooting you're getting from those guys. Like even Finney Smith, like, yeah, he's okay if he's open, but I mean, we saw with la, he's not like some crazy knockdown guy who's who teams are stressing over.
- [63:46]
Zach Lowe
No, I agree with that. I, I Eason is 34 and a half percent for his career. I'm going to believe in his jumper. I just think that they're so versatile defensively that particularly Eason and Thompson, that I almost can't pigeonhole them into a position. And I love how they protect Durant in that regard. I like going in on the double center thing. That's super fun. I agree with you. They're a little, they're big. They're huge. Are they too huge? I don't know if there's such a thing. I just think they're going to be an absolute monster to deal with. Could you imagine trying to box this team out on the glass? I mean, they just got bigger.
- [64:21]
John Hollinger
Crazy. They're going to lead the league in loose ball falls drawn by a mile. Yeah, clearly. I do wonder how, like, Jabari fits in there. Long Jabari. To me, that extension is almost like the Jalen Green extension, where we're just sort of now we have a placeholder for whatever the next trade we do is going to be. I mean, Jabari is fine in the rotation. I'm not as enthusiastic because I just think he can't dribble and so it just limits his game so much.
- [64:49]
Zach Lowe
See, I, I see. I hear that about him and it hasn't looked great, particularly for a guy who was like, is he going to be the number one pick over Bankero, who can very clearly dribble and do a lot of stuff?
- [65:02]
John Hollinger
Someone might have had a number one on his board. Yeah, we won't talk about that.
- [65:06]
Zach Lowe
But no, I'm not. I just like, I get. People want to see more. I just think I'm just not going to pigeonhole him into. He can't dribble. He can't make stuff happen off the bounce because I've seen little flashes here and there. Tentative, sure. Even in the post against smaller guys, you see it sometimes. He just hasn't been put in a position to do that. I think. I don't Know if he will be now, but I think as he grows and his. I think playing with KD and being around KD will be awesome for him. I'm just not closing the book on Jabari Smith Jr. Being like a supplemental kind of creator and not just a nothing as a dribbler.
- [65:44]
John Hollinger
Maybe. I don't know. It's. It's year four, so we gotta see, we gotta see a little more, a little more juice there than we have. Certainly the, the other question here, Reed Shepherd, I mean, he's got to fill a role now, right?
- [65:57]
Wozniak
Good.
- [65:57]
Zach Lowe
Well, that's why you pick him at number three. To fill a role.
- [65:59]
John Hollinger
You would, you would think, right? Yeah. Yeah. Couldn't get off the pine last year was awesome in summer league though.
- [66:06]
Zach Lowe
Well, I mean, I just. I mean Finny Smith good fit. I. I talked about Laravia to the Lakers already. I just think this team's going to be really good. Like I like the okc. It's not going to be a walk in the park for them. It wasn't a walk in the park for them this year in the Western Conference, at least for around. Minnesota retained pretty much everyone other than N and they have the means to replace him or they have young guys that are coming to replace him. By the way, I didn't, I didn't mention this when I talked about Minnesota with was Jada McDaniel's contract just looks better and better like every single minute of every single day. I just think he's a really good player. Okay. Can we talk about another team that's near and dear to your heart?
- [66:47]
John Hollinger
Yeah, let's do it.
- [66:49]
Zach Lowe
The Memphis Grizzlies.
- [66:50]
Wozniak
Woo hoo.
- [66:51]
John Hollinger
All right. All right. Yes.
- [66:52]
Zach Lowe
Jaren Jackson Jr. Renegotiate and extended at the max.
- [66:56]
John Hollinger
Yes.
- [66:57]
Zach Lowe
Santia retained for a little bit more then. Then the mid level exception. What else? What am I forgetting about Memphis? What else? They did something else.
- [67:09]
John Hollinger
Ty Jerome.
- [67:10]
Zach Lowe
Ty Jerome. Tide Jerome.
- [67:11]
John Hollinger
The University of Virginia. Zach.
- [67:13]
Zach Lowe
Oh, got it.
- [67:14]
John Hollinger
Ty Jerome and Jay Huff reunited in Memphis.
- [67:19]
Zach Lowe
This is after the Desmond Bain trade where they got kind of a makeup for the. We traded a pick for a couple picks from Marcus Smart, then we had the dump. Marcus Smart, Morant Caldwell, Pope Wells, Triple J, Zach Edie if healthy, starting five off the bench. It's still a deep team, man. Scottie Pippen Jr. Ty Jerome, Cedric Coward who they traded up for Santi. Brandon Clark if healthy. And we haven't even gotten to Vince Williams or Gigi Jackson Jr. Or Camp Spencer who they resigned. It's a deep team. It's a good team. It still hasn't answered the question to me of like they're not as good as even if they get the job season that they're dreaming of. Right. If Ja reasserts himself as maybe a third team all NBA level player, whatever he was on track to be second team all NBA, no brainer, all star. Even if they get that season out of him, I don't think they're as good as Houston, Denver or Oklahoma City. Now I agree and I'm not sure what the pathway. I mean they could be a very good team in the west for a very long time and that's fine. And maybe you just do what the Mavericks did in Dirk's year is like let's just be really good long enough so we get to the one year where enough things hit and we get the team. Maybe that's all there is. But what did you think of the Jackson deal and where is this team going?
- [68:37]
John Hollinger
Yeah, they, they telegraphed for months obviously that they were going to do this with, with Jaron. That was the whole point of that Marcus Smart trade and getting off of that money. They just didn't want to risk leaving him out there as an unrestricted free agent a year from now. Even if they could outbid teams in that moment. It's a, it's a high wire act to, to do that. So I, to me, I don't think they think they're done at all. I think part of the reason they traded Bain for those picks was to turn around and use some of them in future deals. Now they did use basically two of them to go and get Coward who they're, who they're high on and think could be a starting caliber wing very soon. But I, I don't think they think they're done. I think that Alama contract could end up in play. I think that KCP contract could definitely end up in play where they look at different things they could do with the picks and that KCP thing and other matching salary, whether it's Kanchar or other dudes to get them another high level player. I think because, because if you're just Morant and Jackson as your two sort of top 40 players on the team, I don't think that's good enough. Especially in this West. If you get a third guy like that and you're deep now, now you're in the conversation again, I think. And I think, I think Memphis is trying to get back toward that and be, be sort of like get somebody who can be as Good or better than DEZ was and still fill in with, like, more depth around him. And I think that just, it's. It's. Right now they're in the opportunism mode where, oh, we can get four first for Dez. Okay, let's go. Oh, we can get Ty Jerome three for 28. Let's go. And I don't think they're at the point where they think this is a finished product, though.
- [70:28]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, I think the Jerome deal is great. You know, a lot of people asking Jerome and Merrill ended up getting roughly equivalent annual salaries. Should the cads have kept Jerome over Merrill, Jerome clearly a better player. I wonder if this is one of those scenarios where it's like Merrill was not getting any more than that on the open market and Jerome had all these offers, had at least one offer at this level, but, like, kind of expects the incumbent team to maybe pay a little bit more, knowing him and being familiar with him. But I don't. Whatever. They can survive. Ty Jerome leaving Memphis.
- [71:01]
John Hollinger
To me, that. That Cleveland situation was. If Ty Jerome's agent is telling you he has 14 on the table, then you take Lonzo Ball at 10, right. And you know, and you don't. You never know if the agent is having been this on the team side. You never totally know if the agent is bluffing or not. It seemed reasonable that Ty Giro might have that on the table. Right. It wasn't like, ha, ha, get out of here. So I. I understood why Cleveland did what they did. And then obviously Ty Jerome did struggle in the postseason, and Lonzo gives him a little different look with more defense and that small backcourt especially.
- [71:37]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, I talked about the Lonzo trade briefly. Lonzo for a Coro on Saturday. Like it for the Cavs. Don't care really either way. For the Bulls, I just don't. I don't feel strongly about it. For the Bulls. I talked about already. I will say one thing I forgot to note. Like, Lonzo, really, he's still a very good defensive player. He's got incredible instincts. He's a great passer. All that, he really just became. He only shoots threes now. Like, he. 80% of his shots last year were threes. Yeah, I think that's a tell about his. His athleticism after all the injuries and all the knee issues. It's. It's a. It's veering towards like he'll never be one dimensional because of his passing. But I would like to see him, like, maybe approach the paint at some point if his body allows him to but he's still a delightful player to watch. Okay, Aldama, deal fine like that. That was. He had mid level offers and they paid him a little bit more than the mid level. That's just kind of standard business. Any other notes on that?
- [72:36]
John Hollinger
Yeah, I mean it'll be declining money just because they're, they're a room team. They have plenty of float under the tax so that by 2728 when he's only making 15 and change, that could be a seen as a value contract around the league. We'll see.
- [72:50]
Zach Lowe
Speaking of declining money, you are better qualified than anyone I could have on this podcast to tell me the impact of the cap projection for 2627. The NBA is now projecting a 7% increase. Now teams, a lot of teams were assuming just annual 10% increases every year because the TV revenue is coming in. The NBA pointedly never projected that. The NBA was. Projections were always more conservative. So this 7% projection was not the NBA walking back a more, a more aggressive projection on its part. But it certainly was, you know, and it amounts to like the tax and the aprons are five or six million dollars lower every year than that year and maybe every year forward based on the assumed 10%. Like how big a deal is that? There are teams who like based their contracts on I think that assumption and now, you know, contracts that rise at 8% annually could outpace the cap. How big a deal is this?
- [73:53]
John Hollinger
Yeah, the biggest thing is that the, the assumption before was that the cap rises would outrun the maximum raise allowed in a contract, which is 8%. And so when you go from a 10% rise in the cap to a 7% tom, all of a sudden it's the opposite situation where those, those raises actually are a bigger percentage of the cap as, as they continue. So you worry a little more about those contracts. And then the other thing you worry about is well, wait, if it's, if the increase is only 7% next year, what does it mean for the year after that? Like this? Oh, that's, that's only as far as the TV money wave goes. And I think people thought it would go three, four or five years in. I think probably the reason it doesn't is because all the local TV money is kind of dried up. And so we'll see how the league deals with that. But I, I think bigger than the 2627 question is what does it mean for 27 28, 28 29? I don't know if we can presume those 10 or near 10 increases. In those years either. And that's when things could really get squeezed, especially with some of these extensions we've seen signed. Even though a few of those extensions will get collapsed along with the cap, like the, the Booker one, which is going to be two years for a phenomenal amount of money based on the 10% projection that's going to telescope along with the, the cap projection.
- [75:18]
Zach Lowe
SGA too. There was news this morning. SGA has agreed to a four year extension. I believe that's that kicks in in 27, 28 for him where he'll be making 35% of whatever the cap is then. And then there are just other guys like you know, that are coming up for like that will be Amen Thompson's first year on his next deal, which could be a max the way he's playing. Like it just. It's going to have implications. Okay. Speaking of teams who are doing limbos under various aprons and, and other things, the New York Knicks have had an eventful 12 hours. Adding Jordan Clarkson to a bench that they will presumably play this year. And then today stealing Gershon, Yabu Seli, the dancing bear from the Philadelphia 76ers, which by my calculations takes them right up to what, the second apron? Almost just under the second apron, they.
- [76:11]
John Hollinger
Can add one more minimum and they'll be under the second apron by like a million dollars, I think.
- [76:16]
Zach Lowe
So that's two quality bench guys, reliable bench guys. Before you get to Pascalier Tyler Kolek, who I think need chances to play this year and maybe they bring back Shamet on the minimum or something like that, they still don't have a coach. There's a lot of buzz and a lot of reporting. I think Mark Stein has led the way on this, that Mike Brown is the leader in the clubhouse. And Mark Stein reported this morning, our old colleague and friend, that maybe James Borrego would come in as the top assistant. Maybe he gets associate head coach title. I don't know. That's an interesting combo we can talk about. But you know, Clarkson getting bought out from the Jazz, you know, I don't love him, but I think he fits a need for the Knicks as someone who can just create shots off the dribble and compromise the defense. I love Yabu Selli in that slot for them. I think he's versatile and interesting and if he shoots the three like that, it's a big plus. That's a good, that's a nice clean off season, I think for the Knicks, other than the coaching thing, which, you know, you do need a coach at some point?
- [77:12]
John Hollinger
Yeah. Relatively important. I. The Knicks can't really change that much about what they have on the court at the end of the day. I mean they're, you know, Yabaselli into precious. Achu is slow, not great. Clarkson gives him one more guard and he probably takes the campaign role. Right. That's fine and all, but it's. It's the same top seven guys and I think that's one of the reasons they opted to change coaches is because they can't change anything else at this point. And so can somebody else get more out of this team offensively than Fibs was able to do then? That's why I think, you know, Mike Brown, offensive innovator James Borrego, I think a would be a great hire. We interviewed him in, in Memphis. He was, he was fantastic. And unfortunately they, you know, they don't give out silver medals and in coaching searches. But I think, I think he'd be really good there. It obviously be great for him to get a lifeboat off the good ship Pelicans right now. And I, I don't know. I could, I could see that really being a good partnership in, in New York. Like if they brought in like a Brown Borrego combination, I get. I could, I could definitely get behind that.
- [78:25]
Zach Lowe
Brown Borrego sounds like a color like I want to. Do you have. Do you have that table in Brown Borrego notes here? We have. Okay, we got a couple of things to react to. John, are you ready?
- [78:36]
John Hollinger
Okay.
- [78:36]
Zach Lowe
Yes. Breaking news. We're going to go. I promise you we're going to get back to the Knicks coaching search. The Bucks are trading Pat Connaughton. Pat Connaughton. Sorry, Pat. I do that all the time. Pat Connaughton. And two second round picks to the Hornets for Vasili and Mechich. I assume that's just a salary dump of some kind.
- [78:53]
Wozniak
Is.
- [78:54]
John Hollinger
But that's. I wonder. I think me chic is going to take a buyout on his contract to go to Europe. I think that's where the logic is. So basically there might be a little bit of money left over on me Ch but he would be stretched. But the Bucks can't just stretch Connaughton because it puts them over the 15% limit of stretch contracts after they stretch Lillard. But they could stretch. I think it's like 2 million or something in salary still. And so you do this deal for me, checks a buyout that gets his number down from 8 million to 2 or whatever and then you stretch that and me just goes off and plays in Europe like he was planning to. Anyway.
- [79:37]
Zach Lowe
Breaking news part two.
- [79:39]
John Hollinger
Okay.
- [79:40]
Zach Lowe
Sacramento kings have signed Dennis Schroeder. Three years 45 million. Which is convenient for me because I wanted to talk to you about the Pistons. We will get back to the Knicks. Please remind me to get back to the Knicks reactions to that deal and the Pistons. Let's bring up the Pistons now. Where's my Piston sheet? It's here somewhere. Here it is. The Pistons I have signed Karis Laverted. There's been a little bit of Malik Monk noise. We'll see what happens. Nothing has happened with Tim Hardaway Jr. And a lot has happened with Malik Beasley who is now ensnared in some sort of gambling related investigation. I don't. I think the Pistons could be operating either under the cap with Levert or more likely I think over the cap they brought back Paul Reed as well. Any reaction to Schroeder? Any inklings on what might happen with the Pistons who also get Jaden Ivy back by the way, which is a big deal. The Monk fit if it happens. I'm not sure what view maybe that would be attached to this. If this is not a sign, maybe they're not.
- [80:45]
John Hollinger
It'll be a sign and trade and honestly Detroit should do this as a sign and trade even if they're not getting Monk back. Like Schroeder's going to go into Sacramento's mid level exception. But if you're Detroit it might be worth. Might be worth including a like second round pick swap or something. Send it to Sacramento and generate a 14 million dollar trade exception for Schroeder on his way out the door that you could use later because you've already used. You're. You're using your actual mid level exception. Levert you're. You're resigning Reed with Bird rights. I. I think cap room scenarios are pretty much out the window for them at this point.
- [81:23]
Zach Lowe
I like this. I like flying blind like this. Let's just, let's go so.
- [81:28]
John Hollinger
And then if it is a sign of trade, Monk can be in that trade. Like those salaries line up and Schroeder can actually get the. The one thing is Schroeder could actually get more money in a sign and trade than that three for 45. That was, that was reported.
- [81:44]
Zach Lowe
I mean the Kings don't that shams at ESPN by the way to give them credit there in that if they did get Monk and I'm not. We'll see what happens. That would mean Turning the Hardaway Beasley, you know, three point double barrage into Lavert and Monk who are more versatile ball handlers. Obviously Lavert not quite a shooter on their level but I think overall that would be a talent upgrade and a versatility upgrade. The issue would be Levert was a two year deal I believe, right? Was it two years? 29. Monks got that third year which is a player option for like 21 and a half million. That's, that's a non trivial amount of money on your cap. But I think Detroit is set up to be a really solid team next year and I think Ivy coming back is, you know, we're going to learn how he fits and all of that. And they're obviously if they got Monk and Lavert, they're loading up on secondary ball handlers but I think that's not to be slept on the way Ivy shot the ball last year and learned how to play around Cade. I. We'll see what happens with Monk. But Trudeau finds Sacramento needed a point guard. Lavert is I think an okay fit for Detroit. There's been Duncan Robinson buzz there too. Duncan Robinson had this bizarre like partially guaranteed early termination option. I didn't really understand any of that. But he's now a free agent is what I do understand.
- [83:02]
John Hollinger
Yeah, so he had 10 million guaranteed of 20 million. So if he had opted into the 20 million, Miami could have then waved him and cut that number to 10. And it's, it seems like he A, he wanted a little bit of control over, over where he was going to end up and B, I think by him opting out it leaves the door open for him to be included in a sign and trade if something happens with Miami and Kaminga for instance. And so there, there are some doorways there. You, you wonder if, you wonder what Miami told him about what the Heat would be willing to do for him if he opted out of that deal. But yeah, it's, it seems like and again for him to end up in Detroit that would have to be part of a sign and trade or something too because they've used their mid level on Lavert. Lavert is a two year deal that cannot be converted into a sign and trade. So it would, it would have to come via some other mechanism to get Duncan Robinson to Detroit. I presume he didn't opt out of 20 million to take a minimum in Detroit. That would be some, some bad agent, right Malik?
- [84:09]
Zach Lowe
Yes, Malik. Monk is a better player than Duncan Robinson. I don't think there's any question about that. Yes, On a team with Cade Cunningham, Jaden Ivey and Karis Lavert. I wonder if I'd almost rather have Duncan Robinson on a shorter and perhaps less expensive contract given the fact that I don't have anyone who just profiles as a knockdown movement shooter in that group.
- [84:33]
John Hollinger
I think that's a great, great call. And again, if you do Schroeder outbound as a sign and trade, you could take Duncan Robinson inbound and do. It has to be a three year deal, but you can do the third year non guaranteed, I don't know, three for 33 or something and call it good.
- [84:48]
Zach Lowe
Back to the Knicks. You mentioned that you like the idea of the Brown Borrego combination. I, I love it. It, I, I love it in this sense. Like if you're going to move on from Tibs, which was a gutsy decision, time will tell if it was the right one or the wrong one and who drove it. Whether it was Dolan, the players, some combination of both. Leon Rose, I don't know. Mike Brown has this insane winning percentage that's like top whatever among all time coaches. A lot of that is piled up in the LeBron Cavs 1.0 teams. The Lakers was obviously a disaster. The Cavs 2.0 was obviously a disaster. I thought he did great work with Sacramento and obviously all of that has come apart and none of it is his fault because it's impossible for it to be the coach's fault in Sacramento. And I'm not even being facetious. You know, he is tibsy in that he really likes to practice and he really likes to have like aggressive practices and shoot arounds and he is defense first. And I thought he did an admirable job sort of like leaning more offense early in Sacramento. Obviously got this sort of Golden State vibes by osmosis into his brain. Like a little more fun, a little more easygoing. I wouldn't say that there's any evidence at all that Mike Brown is like a playoff X's and O's calculator at any level above Tibbs. He did some nice things against the warriors in that series the Kings lost in seven games. I'd have to go back and look, but that's where Borrego, I think comes in. If you think Borrego, I'm, I'm not. Am I really ready to hire him as the head guy? He's like relatively unknown. Not a ton of like head coaching experience in the NBA. Mike Brown's sort of got the Persona for it. Could I hire him as, like, the adjustment calculator guy. Yeah, I think that's a good combo. I think it's a good balance.
- [86:41]
John Hollinger
I, I agree with that. And I, I do think Mike Brown, though, even, even as fibsy as some of his instincts are, I do think he's going to lean more into some of the smaller lineups that New York just never even got to last year with playing five shooters together and, and do it. Doing a few other creative things, even during the course of the season where New York, I thought, really left money on the table, and so they didn't always know what they were even capable of when they got to that postseason. Yeah, Thibs, too, is great. Actually, Thibs made more adjustments in this last postseason than I think we've ever seen him.
- [87:17]
Zach Lowe
Against the Celtics, in particular.
- [87:18]
John Hollinger
Yeah. And, and even in the Indiana series, too. And the problem was that New York had no experience through the whole season with any of these adjustments. It was all. It was all throwing new stuff at his own team that they had literally never done.
- [87:36]
Zach Lowe
You know, apropos of nothing, I'm a little. I'm a little angrier about the Miles Turner thing than I was an hour ago from Indiana's perspective. I get it. I get it. I explained that. I get it. I already covered it. I get it. Just. Just leaves a little the part that's crazy.
- [87:55]
John Hollinger
He was in trade rumors, like, every day for nine years, and then this spring was like, nope, okay, it's finally solved. He's going to get paid. It's all going to have a happy ending.
- [88:04]
Zach Lowe
So you just can't ever pay the tax. Like, it's just not possible. Like, Herb Simons, like, doing that badly financially, like, you own an NBA team. I don't. Okay, all right, enough. It's not like the Nuggets, who are going to be a repeater and, like, have actual incentive to not pay the tax. What. What was I going to say? Okay, two other teams, I don't know. We're talking about the Knicks. Fine, whatever. Two other teams I want to get to, because you got to give them love. They're a little under the radar right now. You got to give them love. The Orlando Magic. Yes. Tyus Jones.
- [88:35]
John Hollinger
Yes.
- [88:36]
Zach Lowe
Welcome into town.
- [88:37]
John Hollinger
An actual point guard who can, like, get into the paint and, like, push the ball, and they might run a fast break this year. I, I, this is exciting stuff.
- [88:46]
Zach Lowe
I love the Magic. Getting a real point guard, even one who is not the most aggressive point guard. Part of the reason why Tyus Jones and his brother are the kings of the assisted turnover ratio is that they are not risk takers and you know, head down drivers. But boy do I like this team. Getting an organizer who can take some of the load off PA and Franz and not make, make sure that Jaylen Suggs is not overtaxed as a ball handler nor is Desmond Bane. We know their starting five is going to be what it is. And then off the bench now Tyus Jones fits right in next to Anthony Black, Jonathan Isaac Goga. I, I, I'm, I've just been assuming all along Mo Wagner will come back on some kind of deal because A he was excellent for the Magic before tearing his ACL and B he's Franz's brother. And then you know they're going to have to get something out of like the Jet Howard De Silva, Jace Richardson combo off the bench. But again this just profiles as a rock solid team and I think Tyus Jones is a perfect filling of a need at a good price for the Magic.
- [89:50]
John Hollinger
I think that's absolutely correct. I think they, they saw Desmond Bain I think as kind of the last piece of their puzzle and they might do some fine tuning stuff from here. But I think they in their mind like this is their, this is their five with, with, you know, with Wendell Carter as a starting center, like they have their guys in their mind. I think, I think there's a lot of belief internally still in Black and De Silva that they, they still maybe have not shown on the court the other.
- [90:20]
Zach Lowe
By the way, I would be bullish on both of those guys too. I think Da Silva is a really interesting Swiss army knife kind of prospect. And Black, it's like we're all going to belabor the jump shot. He's never going to be a great shooter, but he does a lot of things well and his athleticism just pops off the, off the screen like going to the rim, like with such force. I'm buying the Anthony Blackstock.
- [90:43]
John Hollinger
Yeah, I think they have a lot of faith that he can become good enough as a three point shooter, especially from the cornerstone, that you could have him on the court for his defense and for his ball handling, even if he might not ever be. When he came out, I think he was envisioned more as a full time point guard. I think he might actually be a wing but at his size, like he could do that easily. Like he's huge.
- [91:07]
Zach Lowe
Magic are going to be absolutely no fun to play against. You know, I mentioned that recently about how, you know, someone said could they be the new Pacers by that they Just meant like the team that rises up in the void of the East. Oh yeah, easily and for sure they could. But one of the comparison I made was the Pacers really benefited from we have a very specific and unique to us identity and we're going to lean all the way into that with every player we sign and every scheme we run and every philosophical decision we make. And I think although Orlando's specific unique identity looks absolutely nothing like the Pacers, I think they have one too, which is we are going to beat the snot out of you on defense and make everything physical and uncomfortable and, and, and they've leaned into that too.
- [91:55]
John Hollinger
Are we prepared to discuss the possibility of an Orlando Houston finals? 63, 59. I'm just saying, like 114 loose ball fouls.
- [92:06]
Zach Lowe
I mean no disrespect. And I realize that everyone who says they mean no disrespect is immediately going to say something disrespectful. So I will say something disrespectful. Nobody in the east is scared of the Cleveland Cavaliers. Like nobody. And I think they walk in next season as the favorite and the best team and they'll win a whole shit ton of games again. And I'm talking Hawks magic. Who played them in a seven game series two years ago? Knicks, whoever it may be. Pistons. I mean, Pistons maybe should be a little scared. Giannis. Like I'd probably pick the Cavs right now to win the east, but none of these teams are like, oh well, we can't beat the Cavs. They're like the Cavs, they roll over every goddamn playoffs. We could beat the Cavs. That's all I'm saying about the Cavs. I think we have to get to Luke Cornett and the San Antonio Spurs. Four years, 41 million. I mean this when I say like, I think this is a freaking awesome signing for the Spurs. Luke Cornette is good. Is he good enough to play 25 minutes for your favorite basketball team in real high stakes games? Probably not. Is he good enough to play 15 minutes behind Victor Wembanyama doing Luke Cornett things? Abso freaking lutely. Can you play him next to Victor Wembanyama a little bit here and there? Absolutely. He's just, you know, he's big, he's gawky, he's goofy, he does funny gestures when he makes free throws. He's colorful personality. The dude is a good basketball player. He's a very good rim protector. He can finish lobs the shot that I really would like to see him develop like a little 6 foot, 8 foot floater. He doesn't quite have that in his arsenal yet, but he's just, he can switch in a pinch and keep some guards in front of him by being big like this. I think this is a meaningful signing for the Spurs. I think this really like, he's a fit and I just like, I like this summer they've had.
- [93:53]
John Hollinger
Overall, I think it's been a good one for them. I like the Carter Bryant pick. I think they needed one more really good 3 and D wing. The question now for San Antonio is, I mean, what are they going to do in the backcourt? Can it be Castle and Fox and Harper going forward or do they have to make another move there to move some of that talent into the 2, 3, 4 spots to really optimize their roster? But I think you play it out for a year there before you, before you really make any rash decisions.
- [94:27]
Zach Lowe
Again, I said this earlier with Washington. I think the spurs have really thread the needle artfully of Kevin Durant. No, it's just we're not quite ready. But you look at their team, Fox, I would project their starting lineups probably Fox, Castle, Vassell, Barnes, Wembanyama could take or leave a Barnes for a Sohan or a Keldon Johnson. Whatever, whatever floats your boat off the bench. Harper, Bryant, Sohan, Keldon Johnson, Cornett, Malachi Ran and Blake Wesley behind that. Like that's a good team. And I think, oh my God, Zach, what happened?
- [95:06]
John Hollinger
How can you ignore the champagne supernova?
- [95:09]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, there's a lot of champagnes rolled around. They're both good. They're all good. Well, the spurs one is good.
- [95:15]
John Hollinger
I don't, I don't think so. Hand is going to be part of that future.
- [95:18]
Zach Lowe
Well, but here's my point. Like, I think the spurs can look at that team like, we haven't really even seen Fox and Wembanyama. We haven't really even seen Fox Vassell in Wembanyama. Can Vassell stay healthy? What more can he give me on offense and on defense? There's still untapped stuff there. Castle's in year two. We got two, two rookies everybody really seems to like, including the number two pick. There's a world in which there are young guys, including Wembanyama, frankly, develop a little faster. I mean, these are like blue, blue chip young guys like that. They develop fast enough that this team outperforms expectations next year and they have all their powder dry going forward. I think staying out of the Durant thing was smart yes we'll see whatever happens if Giannis ever becomes truly a ville but I just like that they've thread this needle of we like a cornet signing is a perfect needle threader helps our team next year fills a need we can't didn't really have a backup 5 none of our options really worked now we solidify that let's not rush it I but I think they're going to be good next year and I like what they've done I do too.
- [96:23]
John Hollinger
I think they still have a lot of optionality they probably threw a shoe through their TV when some of these Atlanta deals were announced because that was one of their best offset best assets. Right but you're still looking at a scenario where you you have the salary match for any deal you want to make with Barnes and Keldon Johnson to get that kind of third star on the wing to go with Fox and Wemby and it's just a question of waiting for the right one to come come along and then the other thing is you have sort of built up this three decades of equity where players say I want to go to San Antonio even though it's in the middle of nowhere and and the flights all suck and all the things we complain about when we go there they don't seem to mind. All that.
- [97:09]
Zach Lowe
Food is great. I had a great one of my favorite all time NBA nights in San Antonio was during the final anywhere was during the finals barbecue and then we went to some bar a bunch of us with a big outdoor space and shout out she's going to know who she is. There were about 10 of us there. She ordered Bud Light limes for all of us and all of us were like bud Light lime. This is disgusting. You should be ashamed of yourself for ordering this. She was like just try it, you're going to like it. And by the end of the night we're like Bud Light lime. And then spoiler alert. John Hollinger. I had a poker night at my house maybe six months ago and I bought Bud Light lime as kind of a lark for the group. It's not good. Apologies to Bud Light who may for all I know sponsors this podcast. It turns out it was just the aura of the NBA finals outdoors in San Antonio that made Bud Light lime taste good. It's not good. Last question for you. Very last one. The Dallas Mavericks signed d' Angelo Russell to their tax mid level exception completing the Vision defense.
- [98:13]
John Hollinger
Which championships?
- [98:15]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, obviously. What? What? Just give me your quick and dirty. I've talked about the Mavs. I think they're good. I'm not quite ready to buy them as like a title contender until I see Kyrie come back and play, but I. And even then I'm not sure. But they're good, they're deep, they're big. What's your projection on the Mavs?
- [98:30]
John Hollinger
I think you about nailed it. I think without Kyrie this year they're just. Their ceiling just isn't that high to me. You already know Davis is going to miss time too, so it's a lot to put on Cooper Flag in his rookie year to kind of carry that. I think Russell is an amazing stopgap for what they had to pay for him. I mean he will create offense, he will, he will make open shots. I think they had a lack of shooting up and down that roster, you know, other than Clay who's probably coming off the bench. So I think Russell really solves that and then I presume he's going to go back into the market next year. But you'll have Kyrie next year. Year bigger picture. I mean the big picture question about the BS is whether this is the way they should be going at all. Whether they should trade Davis, trade Kyrie and build the whole thing around Cooper flag in years 2, 3, 4, 5 and and try to get kind of younger and more assets around that. They also got a lot of dudes in the front court and I'm wondering if they're going to thin that herd at some point, especially like that. Gafford extension to me is something that you do to make it tradable as much as you do to just extend him for your own team. They probably want to trust in Lively's health a little more. They probably need to get slapped in the face by the fact that Anthony Davis is, yes, actually a center.
- [99:44]
Zach Lowe
He does too. I mean how many years are we going to like so like we saw it last year look defensively and on the glass. I mean it feels disingenuous to note that the Adams Shen Goon pairing worked so well for Houston and then be like, well Anthony Davis has to be the five. The difference is they found something with like the we're just going to rebound literally half of our misses with that group and that's going to make up for everything else that usually comes with being double center. Davis doesn't play like that as the four. He just sort of floats around the perimeter as an 18 foot jump shooter which great for defense. Offensively, it just I didn't see enough to like, okay, I now I now I'm ready to have him play 75% of his minutes as a four.
- [100:29]
John Hollinger
Yeah, the only way that works to me is if you have a Miles Turner type five next to him who's just above the three point line all the time. And then Davis is, he's playing offensively more as a five years rim running and stuff. And then on defense you're like, no, Anthony, you're the four. Like everything's fine.
- [100:45]
Zach Lowe
All right, John Hollinger, you got to go back to work because you're part of the Athletics. Just live constant coverage of everything in free agency. Maybe in an hour we'll find out. We'll find out if Malik Monk is indeed heading to Detroit in a sign of trade. But we covered a lot. It was an eventful morning. Thank you for your time, sir. Read John at the Athletic. Listen to him on Hollinger and Duncan. He is the best in the business. I'll be back. I think It's Tuesday at 1pm Now. I think I'll be back. Maybe we'll see Thursday, who knows. That's a holiday weekend is coming up. I completely forgot about it. If there's more news, there will be more Zach Low show later in the week. Thank you to Chris, Ronick, Isaiah and Jesse for today on production, for rolling with all the variables. Thank you to John Hollinger. Thank you to Big Woz. I will see you next time on the Zach Lowe show. Must be 21 and over and present in select states. For Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President D.C. gambling problem called 1-800- gambler or visit FanDuel.com RG call 1-887-897-777 or is it ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or is it mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland? Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York.