← The Zach Lowe Show
The Zach Lowe Show
NBA Latest, Training Camp Reports, and Favorite Non-Finals Teams With Chris Ryan
01:08:19
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- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by NBA 2K26 quick timeout. NBA 2K26 is here and it's looking sharp. New motion engine, smoother catch and shoot and rhythm shooting that actually feels natural, like real basketball flow. In my team they've added the W so you can run Nafisa Collier, Tyrese Haliburton and Tim Duncan. It's his beautiful blend of spacing IQ and quiet dominance. Mycareer is also all new. The city's more efficient and the whole thing just plays faster and smarter. NBA 2K26 is out now and it's genuinely impressive this year. If you haven't jumped in yet, now's the time. Ball over everything. All right, coming up after this on the Zach Lowe show special midweek edition. I don't know what happened at all. Some stuff in media day happen. We're going to talk about Mitchell Robinson possibly starting for the Knicks. Anthony Edwards post game. A little bit more on Fred Van Vliet and why the Rockets may or may not do anything to address this issue and why maybe they should. I don't know. We'll see. Chris Ryan, first time guest. He talks a little bit about the Sixers. Where is he on his beloved Sixers? It's very hard to pin down where one should be on the most irrational NBA franchise of the last 15 years. And then a fun gimmick. We decided to do a draft. We don't do a lot of drafts on the Zach Low show, but there's not much going on in the NBA. We did a draft, but we did a nerd draft. We did it my way. Favorite teams? No criteria, just teams you loved from the last 15 years in the NBA single season. Teams only criteria they didn't make the Finals. You could pick a really funny bad whiz team. You could pick a really beautiful spurs team. You could pick whatever teams you want. We drafted five each. We have a lot of honorable mentions. We have a little In Memoriam. Made a whole show of it. Chris was awesome. We picked a lot of similar teams, but a lot of different teams too. So it was a real fun segment. Hope you enjoy it. Coming up on the Zach Lowe Show. This episode of the Zach Lowe show is presented by HubSpot. Using only 20% of your business data is like going from a starting five to a starting one. Good luck with that. But that's how most businesses operate today, using only 20% of their data. Unless you have HubSpot, where all the data hidden in emails, call logs and chat messages turns into insights to grow your business. Because having all the data makes all the difference. Learn more@HubSpot.com welcome to the Zach Low Show. Chris Ryan is here. We're gonna spend about, I don't know, 90 minutes talking about the Sixers and how if everything clicks into place, this could be the year. Chris, how are you?
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B
I'm doing well. I'm in the best shape of my life.
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A
I mean it. 15 pounds of muscle.
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B
Yeah, whatever. Embed's on, I'm on. I'm really happy to be here, Zach. I'm glad we could reach across the NL east aisle and create content together.
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A
As I've said to you and Sean, who doesn't understand, I have no animus toward the Philadelphia Phillies. All my animus is still aimed at the Braves, the Yankees and the St. Louis Cardinals. I missed all the. I missed Chase Utley, apparently going hockey goon on a. On a Mets player.
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B
I don't know what you're referring to.
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A
We have a fun gimmick that we're going to do, but before we get there, we got to bounce around the league a little bit because there's been some news, always news, on media day. And as you know, Chris, anything that is said on media day you need to take with complete and utter earnestness because it's for sure true and definitely going to remain true for the rest of the season. And definitely you should just take it very seriously. But the first thing is I want to do a little bit more on Fred Van Vliet tearing his acl. I talked about it with Bill yesterday. We went through all the trade possibilities. I'm not really going to dive too much into that right now. I have, from what I've heard, the Rockets are going to do nothing. And they're going to do nothing for a couple of reasons. Number one, they can't really do anything until December 15, when all the free agents that signed in the summer can be traded, including, like, half of their roster. And they're not going to do anything because they're going to give the ball to Amen Thompson and Reed Shepherd. They might even start Reed Shepherd, I don't know. And just see what they have in those guys and kind of bet that they're still going to be a really good team and. And connected to that. And I'm interested to hear what you think of this. If they're a little worse than they expected to be. Like, to me, this injury was an absolute gut punch because it took a team, it took a team that had real championship equity Whatever percentage chance you had to, like, actually win the championship, they had some small but meaningful equity, and I think now they have none. I think they might say, well, if that ends up being the case, like, maybe we don't really care about that because we're going to learn a lot about our young guys. Yes, we traded for Kevin Durant, but, like, we're not a prisoner to Kevin Durant's timetable because the rest of our roster, other than Van Vliet, is all young, up and coming guys. We've got future draft picks. I'm not sure 100% buy that. But what do you just think of this whole situation? I think it sucks, but what do you think of this whole situation?
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B
I think it sucks, too. I do have, funnily enough Rockets fans in my life, and I feel really bad for them because it's obviously put together to have the. The two timelines work out in a really elegant way with Durant and Van Fleet and a veteran kind of core and then having this young, emergent generation of players. And Sengun is apparently, according to all his teammates in Europe, the greatest center who ever lived. So I was very excited to see what they put together this season. I did have a question for you about all of this, which is that if this had happened in the last game of the playoffs for the Rockets and Fred had blown out his knee in that game, do you think Durant goes to the Rockets?
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A
It's a great question.
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B
Like, do we. Do we. Do you think Durant is in any way kind of like, I could be a Timberwolf right now?
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A
I'm going to say. I'm going to say still, yes, because I just think Kevin Durant's one of those guys who's like a, he's from Texas B or he's not from Texas. He went to college in Texas. He's from the dmv. But. And just like, I can. I can make it work, like, if this is where I want to be. Like, I get. We're like a Fred. I'm not a Fred Van Vliet away from making it work now. I think they're. I really do think this takes their championship equity close to zero, and if they don't care about that, that's fine. That's in part because, yeah, they're going to give Amen Thompson the ball a lot. I love Amen Thompson could not possibly be higher on him. He's a freak of nature as an athlete. He is a high IQ player. He is one of the best defensive players in the league. He's a good passer. He's. He's going to get a lot of on ball reps. That's cool. That's a huge jump from the role he had last year. Reed Shepard, we're going to find out. Number three pick, they love him. It's awesome. He can shoot pull up threes from pretty much anywhere within 30ft. He's a good passer. He plays really hard. Didn't play last year. So those are two guys that have now radically different roles for a team that struggled to score in the half court anyway. Now they added Kevin Durant. That's a just a walking good half court offense. Shangun's better than he was a year ago. I just don't think they can win three playoff series in the west without like a traditional point guard with proven championship experience. They don't want to out. They should not want to overwork Kevin Durant in the regular season is like a salve for this as temporary staff for the salve sav. I would say that and I it's, it's, it's, it's also just like Oklahoma City is just that good. Denver is just that good if those teams are healthy. Just this injury to me takes Houston from could beat one of those teams if not two in a playoff series. If everything goes right to like can't beat one or two of those teams in a playoff series and maybe they don't care that's fine. If they do care they, they certainly could make a trade and Bill and I went through a lot of the possibilities yesterday. Some of those trades would have to involve Fred Van Vliet who by the way, I don't know know that I've heard people say this. He has like a de facto no trade clause because he's on a one plus one player option deal and he's got the same kind of no trade clause that anyone who, who you know if you get traded your bird rights are whatever you resigned a one year contract with the team that you were on. They you know a lot of the smaller trades would have to involve Tari Eason who I think I'm very high on. I think they're very high on can't.
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B
Break up the Terror Twins.
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No, can't do it. And like someone pitched me today, someone in the league pitched me would you do Tar eason for Deuce McBride? And in some second round picks I was like I might just be like way too high on Tar Eason. Even if the Knicks could do that because of their apron issues. I'm not, not into that.
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B
Here's, here's the silver lining, here's the bright side way of looking at this. This happened at the right time. This happened before camp. This happened before the trade deadline. This did not happen in late March when you had established everything you could establish about your team and you were getting ready for the playoffs. They're going to be able to find out everything they need to find out about shepherd as a primary ball handler, about Thompson's playmaking capabilities, and they have enough stuff lying around that if they need to adjust or if they need to make a swing, they can maybe take advantage of teams that are not doing well next season and might be looking to sell assets. So I think that it's a, it really sucks for Fred Van Vliet and it sucks for the Rockets, but if it, if something like this is going to happen, as a Sixer fan, let me assure you it's better to happen preseason than it is to happen in late March.
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I mean, I was listening to my old buddies at the Hoop Collective today and Tim Bonson was saying they're still going to be in the mix. They're going to be in the mix. I'm like, yeah, they're going to be in the mix. They're really good. Houston is really, really good with Kevin Durant. They're, they're like, without. If you turn Fred Van Vliet into nothing and it's just like, promote Reed shepherd and then promote Aaron Holiday behind him and maybe get more of the deep out of the deep bench guys than you expect, they're still going to be really good in the mix. Is cool. I don't think they can win the championship. They were not going to be my pick to win the championship or even win the west, but they had some meaningful chance to do those things. And now I just think if Fred Van Vliet turns into like zero during the season, I don't think that they do. And if they don't care about that because of all this long lens stuff we're talking about, that's fine. Kevin Durant is also about to turn 37 next week, and so I just think there's some dissonance there of like, oh, we'll be fine long term, blah, blah. Like, okay, I just, it sucks for Fred Van Vliet, who's an awesome dude and an awesome player, and for now, I don't think they are doing anything. Any other thoughts on this?
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B
No. I'll just be curious to see how Durant handles the early season adversity or you know, just the not exactly what he was planning on getting when he walked into Houston. And is this more of a like my blade is for hire Kevin Durant or is it like, no, you know, this is my last stand. I want to make a push, I'll be a leader, I'll keep the guy's spirits high. We'll figure this out.
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A
The other thing I do want to bring up is, you know, one of the names I mentioned yesterday, just spitballing with Bill completely was Emmanuel Quickley, who I think is underrated and fits a team like Houston. And I just, I mentioned how long and expensive his contract is and how little he's played the last couple of years, particularly last year. And you know, this is a team that's going to be up against like all the aprons as is and adding a 32 and a half million dollar point guard is prob in that sense. So you have salary concerns too, which is why Bill brought up all like the, this sort of cheaper Peyton Pritchard TJ McConnell group that he brought up. Be interesting to see if they do do it. I almost wonder like are you more likely to do something aggressive trade wise for a guard if you are playing below expectations or playing above expectations? I almost think it's above. I almost think like if, if you're playing above expectations, you might be more apt to like, okay, maybe we should do something.
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B
Yes. It's like we, we realize what we have here. Thompson and Sengu have made leaps. We have to go for it.
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A
Okay. Topic number two. Shams breathlessly on NBA Today yesterday talked about how he, he's spoken with people close to Anthony Edwards. And Anthony Edwards is set to unveil a post up game this season as his big off season innovation. Um, which would be huge. If, if that sounds familiar to anybody who listens to this podcast, it's because in the fall of 2022, three years ago, Anthony Edwards was in my most Intriguing players column at ESPN and he and I talked on the phone about developing a post up game and how he was in the lab that summer. He said, let me see what he said to me. My post ups will be a lot better. I'm working on it now. That's all I can say. That's three years ago. Since then, essentially nothing has happened. And by the way, that's fine. He was 21 or 22 when he told me that coming off a playoff series they lost when it would have been useful, I think for him to have been able to Take John Morant down to the post and like exploit him. And that's why I asked him about that. And I think it's completely normal that he would say something like that at 21, 22, 20, whatever. He was put in some of the work and then as the team changes around him and expectations change, we don't really see the fruits of that work by now when he's what, 24, 25, whatever he is. And, and maybe now we will. And it would, it would really help them because I keep saying Minnesota is awesome. They're a threat back to back conference finals. They always feel like half a playmaker and or half a shooter short to me. I've pitched the idea that like they're a good fit for a big for guard kind of trade. I pitched like a Nas Reed for Tyler hero concept. I don't even know if I believe in it. I don't know if either team would do it. Minnesota fans acted like I, I said that they should trade Kevin Garnett for like Tyus Jones beloved Minnesotan or something like that. I, I just think that would be an interesting like arrow in the quiver for a team that needs a couple more playmaking levers. So I hope it's true. I'm just saying like it's not, it's not new that he's talking about this.
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B
I like the idea that Anthony Edwards post game is, is to basketball what George R.R. martin's last game of Thrones book is. He's just, he's just working on it. He's just dialing it up. He's going to do it. Do you think that this augurs any tactical change shift, both from Chris Finch, but also within the NBA in general. We've heard a lot about the return to the mid range. If you can do it right. It's an incredible weapon, incredible tool. There's obviously the never ending old heads new generation war about taking too many threes and I mean is this. Could you see more players adapting a high post mid range game?
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Sure. But like as long as it's for the right shots, like yes, you need to hit some of those kinds of fadeaway shots, turnarounds, the stuff that Shams was talking about on NBA today, the Kobe shots you also just like need to get. He needs to get better at just hitting, pull up twos off the dribble. He's a 39% mid range shooter. That's not good enough for his volume. I would like to see it more deployed in the way that I was talking about before, which is like, you know, you run inverted pick and rolls targeting the small guy on the other team. You get a switch, you go into the post, you draw the defense and you start working from there. That's the playmaking dimension that I'm talking about. And interestingly like his post ops actually went down last year and I think that's a function of the swap of Cat for Randall because Kat can space and Randall is like a post up guy himself. So even just fitting it in around Randall and Gobert is going to be tricky. But if it's Randall and Reed or Reed and Gobert, you have a little more space to work with. It's something I'd like to see. So kudos to anything, awards. Who by the way just turned 24 like 50 days ago. He's 24 and 50 days. Obscene how good that dude is.
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I just always love a late summer, early fall PR push around a new individual development goal. Like you know, I think LeBron sort of started, started that out of making that like a public thing every summer of like what he had added to his game. I love, I love trips to Akeem camp. I love them all.
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Yeah, you know what I don't love? I don't need to see the video in the car where you zoom in on the dashboard and it's like 455 hashtag going to work. Like cool. You're up at 4:55 in the morning. Awesome. You know who's not up at 4:55 in the morning? Me. Because I prioritize my sleep and I get some sleep. So congratulations, you're up at 4:55. I think that's crazy. Go back to bed. Oh, player development. I mentioned ants post ups being down. One of the reasons was he shot a ton more threes last year. Player development. Okay, topic number three. Jason Tatum is on a media blitz and he keeps prying the door open to coming back this season from an Achilles tear. This has been mumbled about behind closed doors almost since the surgery that took place the night of the injury, I believe.
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Who's the mumbler in chief on this one? Is it our boss?
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Well no, he's not doing it behind closed doors. I'm just saying it's just like been whispered about. Bill even mentioned his birthday, Tatum's birthday, which is in March at some at some point yesterday as a, as a timestamp.
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Truly is an amazing thinker.
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I look, I hope Jason Tatum is like one of the like all time recent vintage gamers. Like he just wants to play. He was in the middle of one of the best games of his career when this injury happened in game four against the Knicks. A game the Knicks were going to win anyway. Probably gotten better and better and better. A legit two way superstar in the league. I hope his recovery is going really well. It would be awesome if he could come back this year. I just, I'm both with him and Kyrie and even Fred Van Vliet. I'm in just like I'm penciling him them in as a zero until I see otherwise. Because in Tatum's case, if he comes back, let's say the Celtics are like 35 and 35 pushing for a play in spot or what top six spot, whatever. A. All the history says he's not going to be Jason Tatum right away. It might take until next season for him to be Jason Tatum. So do you want x percent of Jason Tatum coming back from an Achilles injury in the highest intensity games of the year, whether it's end of season play in tournament or whatever? Like I don't know that that's. I got, I've just got to see it first. That's all I'm saying.
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B
On a minutes cap, do you want Jason Tatum can't play back to backs. Like I, I think respectfully these guys should take a year off. I understand the urgency and I understand especially when you're driven and especially when you went out the way he went out, you want to get back on the court and start to get your NBA career back together. But like we did this with Aaron Rodgers. I, I am certain that medical science will advance enough at some point where like maybe an Achilles injury is something that you can get back before a full season out. But I, I wouldn't want to be the guinea pig and, and I just feel like let, let Jaylen Brown cook and, and see what you come up with. But I don't, I don't see him coming back in late March or his birthday or whatever he and, and Simmons have cooked up. I don't know, I don't really know if that makes sense to me.
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A
I thought you said Ben Simmons for a second. No, I have one Knicks item to get to but before we get to that, I just, I just, I need to know how you are approaching this six year season because the, the, the continuum of like semi rational approaches to a franchise that has been irrational for like 15 straight years. The craziest stretch that I can remember for any NBA team. You could rationally like at least semi rationally be clinging to the hope that like this is the year embiid, skinny, PG is going to be healthy, probably resign Grimes, McCain's back, etc, Etc. You could semi rationally think that, or you could semi rationally be like, I don't even want to pay attention to this team until they pivot away from this core and go back to tanking or whatever. I'm done. It's over. Wake me up when it's this whole. When It's Maxi and McCain and like some other young guys.
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B
Yeah.
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A
Where are you?
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B
Right in the middle. At the end of last season, it was probably as out on the Sixers experience as I had been in. In. In my, like, later part of my. The second half of my life. But there is something about the. The collective sort of personality of these young guards that they have that I would watch no matter what their record is. And I just hope I get to see these dudes cook. I hope I get to see Edgecomb Tomahawk on somebody. I love the Maxi Experience. Can't wait for McCain to come back and get a full season under his belt. And. And I am now in a place where PG and Embiid are gravy, like what. What they can give us. I love everything I've seen from Embiid. Being skinny, not talking very much in the last couple of weeks or so. Everything seems to be pointing in the right direction. I, um. And it's kind of Embiid's last stand. So I'm here for it. I'm here to watch it.
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A
EmbiId's last stand. 50.
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B
And also, there's a little bit of, like, with this Eastern Conference. It's like, why not us Know how, Albert?
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A
So you got there. You got to this end of the continuum right there.
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B
Yeah. Yes. But it's more because of other teams they're suffering than it is because the Sixers have made some sort of great leap.
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A
I like that you called it Embiid's last stand when he has a $67 million player option four years from now.
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B
More an emotional narrative sense. Not financially.
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A
I just. I can't. I can't. I can't do it anymore. I just can't. All right. The Knicks item was this. Mike, I mentioned this last week. I said I've. I've heard that there's a decent chance Mitchell Robinson is going to start over. Josh Hart. The Knicks are going to start double big in Towns and Mitchell Robinson. They haven't confirmed that. They haven't unconfirmed it. There's photos leaking out of practice of Mitchell Robinson in the Starters jerseys and Josh Hart in the bench jerseys. Does this scare you at all as a, as a rival of the Knicks? What do you think of this move pivoting away from one of the Nova guys to go double big?
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B
It doesn't scare me. What's up with Josh Hart's hand though?
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A
Like, yeah, the finger splint. He announced I'm gonna have to wear a splint this year. It's look like that's, it's not great. He's going to play through it. I don't remember exactly when it happened, but it's like, look, this is. We have two reminders. One very serious in Fred Van Vliet and one not, I guess not as serious in Josh Hart's case. That just like a lot of this just comes down to you got to be healthier, you got to suck it up and play through some stuff if you want to win a championship.
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B
Yeah, I have no idea really the details of it. The wire report that I read about, it was kind of vague about what actually happened to the hand in the first place and what went wrong with him during the, the rehabilitation process that he, he injured it and now needs to wear a splint and he's going to wait till next summer to get it fixed again. But it is very nixy that he's already got a debilitating injury that he's going to tough out and we haven't even gotten to camp yet.
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A
Heart's finger aside, I kind of like this for the Knicks. I think it is. It worked in the playoffs when Mitchell Robinson rebounded everything and gave them some rim protection that Kat can't give them. I think it's their best shot at having a championship worthy defense as long as they don't overwork Mitchell Robinson and they have the depth to not do that. Just, just. But I like seeing what the double big lineup looks like. The risk for Cat is it's something he's done before. He's going to have to guard power forwards and wings a lot of the times and he's actually okay one on one. Like he guarded Durant in the playoffs with the Wolves and he did that well. When he starts to have to move around and help and communicate, it can get a little dicey. The Knicks toyed against the Pacers when they did went double big with putting, with putting Cat on Seac, with putting a cat on Miles Turner and inverting the matchups and putting Mitchell Robinson on siakam. I don't, I just don't want Cat on the main guy setting picks for the other team. You can attack him no matter where he is, have his guy screen no matter what. But like, I just would like him off the main screen setter even if he's like, you know, a shooting five or whatever. And I think it's a good pathway to like offensive innovation for them. It's going to force them to innovate a little bit. You don't want Kat to be just a spot up guy around Mitchell Robinson screening and diving, turning him into a, turn him into a handoff hub. You know, run pick and roll on one side, then kick it and run pick and roll of Cat on the other side. They're going to get good offensive rebounding. I like it. I think it's worth trying. I think it makes the Knicks ceiling higher. End of Knicks thing. We got some updates on Quentin Grimes just now from Sean Shrine at espn. Stalemate. Chris Ryan may not be going to Abu Dhabi. Are they going to Abu Dhabi? Is that where they're going?
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B
They are going to Abu Dhabi. Yeah.
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A
Stalemate. Stalemates still with Grimes and Kaminga according to Shams. That's. I haven't heard anything different like, okay, any, any reaction to this?
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B
No. Guard depth is not one of the Sixers problems. I like Quentin Grimes a lot. I don't understand why this is taking longer than like some corporate mergers take. And I think, I think it would be great to have Quentin Grimes. I don't really understand what the problem is or where the, the, the huge Quentin Grimes market is that I'm not noticing.
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A
A little bit more on the Knicks. Josh Hart. Josh Hart, not a quintessential six man, but the Knicks, I don't think that matters because Jordan Clarkson is there as like a quintessential now eighth man. And just the way they stagger minutes between Brunson and Cat and Bridges. They got enough like offense on the bench. I like that part about it. I just like it. I think it's worth trying. I think it's worth trying and I think it's their best chance at a decent defense. Okay. This episode is brought to you by Samsung. If you're someone who's constantly bouncing between games, text notes and stats, guilty. The new Galaxy Z Fold 7 is for you. Z Fold 7 basically turns into a mini tablet when it's open. So you can view up to three windows at once. Holy smokes. And watch the game on a wide screen from anywhere. I need that widescreen. Game over. Fold it up and it fits in your hand. Can your phone do that. The Samsung Galaxy Z Fold 7. Learn more at samsung.com display measurements diagonal and actual viewable area is less due to rounded corners and camera hole punch. Now we get to the fun part. You ready?
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B
Sure.
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A
It's gimmick time. You know, Bill, Bill encouraged me, like, think of a good gimmick. Nothing's happened in the NBA. And I thought, well, that's a good nerd gimmick for me because I'm an NBA nerd. And I thought, let's do a draft. Because every gimmick is basically a draft. And let's draft from like LeBron. Signing with the Heat is kind of like a line of demarcation in NBA history. Everything after that is different from everything that came before it. And you have to put a line somewhere else. You're just. It's going to take over your Life. So from 201011 until the present day, I said, let's draft our five each will do five picks each, our favorite teams, individual single season teams to not make the NBA Finals. That's the only rule. You can pick bad teams, good teams. You can pick the same franchise multiple times. Just has to be a single season NBA team that you loved that didn't make the final. And you could love them for any reason. Style of play, characters, lovable losers, insanely incompetent losers, whatever it is that you want, you can love them for that reason. It could be your favorite team. Whatever the reason is, that's the reason. Are you ready? We did a lot, we did a lot of research for this. This is a great time.
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B
This is a fascinating exercise. Just to specify it's not make the finals or it's not win the Finals. I have not made the Finals, not make the Finals. I have plenty of teams, both.
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A
Okay, so I'm giving you the number one pick in the also we're going to call it the fun also ran draft.
- [26:58]
B
I can. Can I just say two things? One, one is that this conveniently almost lines up with our history of working together back at Grantland. Like it's. It's about a season or two before. And it also portrayed something that I did not know I have, which is a kind of unacknowledged west coast bias when it comes to the NBA. And I think partially because big media has been telling me that the Western Conference is a bloodbath this year. It's going to be. There's so many great teams in the Western Conference. So a lot of the teams I went back, I almost waited more heavily because they were in the West. I wanted to find more Eastern Conference teams, but I've been living in LA for the majority of this era and so I did find it kind of informing my choices and my picks. And I guess I'll start with what I would imagine is one of the chalkier choices here, which is the 201213 Oklahoma City Thunder, which is the season after Harden, which is one of the other non LeBron seminal moments in our professional lives. Harden getting traded to the Rockets. The Thunder went 60 and 22. Despite that, KD averaged 28, won the MVP. They drew Harden in and the Rockets in the first round and in the second game. Westbrook goes down in game two of that Rocket series. They win that in six, but lost to the Grizz in the following series. There's something about even though this team would would kick around obviously for the next couple of seasons, there's something about that what if and that Russ Russell Westbrook injury. You know, by this point they obviously were going through the carousel of Kevin Martin and Thabo and a little bit of Karam Butler and sprinkling in there and all these random guys that that Presti would draft who were actually pretty decent but just never were able to make up for that thing that Harden gave the team. But this is, this is probably, I would say even my, I preferred this team over the 16 team that so sadly like went down to the Warriors.
- [29:04]
A
Yeah, all those Oklahoma City teams are on my long list of candidates and one may be drafted by me. But you haven't named it yet. It just felt like, like this was a super fun team. Durant wins the mvp, he gives the famous speech. Kevin Martin actually finishes fourth and sixth man of the year. And I guess I'm, I'm just tinged by the Pat Bev Russ collision in the first round when Russ is going to call a timeout and Pat Bev steals the tries to steal the ball, if I'm remembering it right. And it just kind of ruined the rest of the playoffs. Yeah, for the Thunder. They lose to the grizzl in five games. I think that's when the Oklahoman put the Mr. Unreliable headline with Kevin with Kevin Durant and he didn't like that so much. If I'm remembering that right off the top of my head, they were a fun team. I the reason I didn't pick them is like I need. They were the most fun to me when they were making their rapid ascent and when they had Harden in the bench roll where he was just this like, what is this guy he's coming off the bench and putting up these, like, crazy advanced numbers, but he's still coming off the bench. When they were. When they were like the lovable young team who was way ahead of the curve. And then Harden leaves and there's just this void and they're filling it with. And there's injuries in all the playoff runs. I couldn't find. I didn't. I didn't have this team on that high on my list. I did have one other Thunder team, but it's. You had to have multiple Thunder teams should be in a draft like this.
- [30:27]
B
Yeah. And I think that that's a. A franchise where the ceiling we projected was dynasty. So when. When you walk out of there with neither of those guys having an Oklahoma City championship, it's. It's pretty. It's pretty wild to think back on, and it's even wilder to consider the fact that they just won it.
- [30:47]
A
I'll tell you another Thunder team I actually considered wild. The 2019, 20 Bubble Thunder team with Chris Paul, Dennis Schroeder. Yeah, that almost. That came within like a hardened shot block of upsetting the Rockets in the first round of the playoffs. Just a weird, strange team. Chris Paul came and went. It was just a fun. That was a fun team. They were not in my draft.
- [31:09]
B
I love. We're just going to start the three point guards or we're just going to start the three. Yeah, I love. Like the Bulls did that a couple years ago. I feel like it's, It's. It's a really fun wrinkle now.
- [31:20]
A
One of the reasons I gave you the number one pick in the draft was I knew you were not going to take my favorite. My number one pick. I'm actually surprised you can't guess what my number one pick is. It's an Eastern Conference team and it's so obvious. It's such an obvious me pick that I barely even thought about it. The 201415 Atlanta Hawks, when all four. Four of their five starters made the all Star team, including. Yeah, when. When the full starting five with Damari Carroll was named the NBA Player of the month or Player of the week. I can't remember which one it was. And they just sort of became. Daryl Morey actually publicly came out and said during the playoffs, which didn't go well for the Heat or for the Hawks, that what I'm trying to see, they're 60 and 22 and they slumped toward the end of the season, a slump that they. When they had the number one seed wrapped up that Some of their players are like, we kind of let our habits slip and it cost us in the playoffs. But Daryl Morey came out and said, like, it would be good for the NBA if the Hawks made the Finals, which was his, which would have had to have gone through LeBron, and that was what made them. First of all, the ball movement was just crazy. The. The plays that Quinn Snyder was cooking up to get Kyle Korver open was just like the most complex ballet of basketball that I had seen to that point. Millsap and Horford is like this fun, super fast blitz pick and rolls. Good passing, good shooting everywhere. Jeff Teague, current ELITE Podcaster Just doing, doing Jeff Teague stuff. And Bud making faces or on the bench. No, it was, it was Bud. But Quinn Snyder was cooking up a lot of the plays for Kyle. Just a delightful team to watch. And also became this stand in for, like, can you actually do it without a top?
- [33:00]
B
Like, can you beat LeBron in the aggregate?
- [33:02]
A
Can you beat LeBron? And it turned out no. Not only could you not beat him, you cannot win a single game off him in a playoff series in the conference finals. And that losing, like, that sort of started like an existential crisis within the Hawks. Like, is this all. I was reading a story I wrote for Grantland after their playoff loss where they're kind of all like, man, I hope we're just not wasting our time. Like, we're really trying here. Like, of course we'd love to get a top seven player or top eight player. We don't have one. Like, are we just supposed to give up? And they're kind of like asking themselves this question. They didn't do great in the playoffs, by the way. The Nets took them to six in the first round. The Wiz took them to six in the conference semis when John Wall missed half the series with a wrist injury. They needed a Horford put back to win game five at almost the buzzer to go up three two when they were down one. It was not like a great playoff run either. Like, the playoffs were not kind to them, which also made them more interesting to me. Like, does all this cute stuff just not work as well in the playoffs.
- [34:02]
B
When defenses are geared up?
- [34:03]
A
Yeah, but it, but it was, it was a rollicking journey for the 60 win Atlanta Hawks. So they are my. They are my number one pick. All right, you get the third pick.
- [34:10]
B
I was always going to pick a Sixers team. I think the choice of Sixers team might surprise some people, which is the 1718 team, aka the Feds team. This is the season before Jimmy butler arrives. So 1819 would probably be a little bit more popular. They got closer and I think that this sort of marked the end of one era of the process. Sixers then going into all star shopping to finding a guy to play next to Embiid. So starting the basically the pattern of Butler, Horford, Tobias Harden, now Paul George. But this was the homegrown. The homegrown team. This was Feds for people who don't know is the nickname bestowed to Fultz and Bead, Dario and Simmons, which was going to be this core. You also had Robert Covington, J.J. redick, T.J. ilya Sova, Bellanelli. It was just a really fun Brett Brown team. Fultonly plays 14 games this rookie season. Although the Sixers wind up when he comes back, just absolutely Sixers ing out because he breaks Joel Embiid's orbital bone. And then the Sixers win the last 16 games.
- [35:23]
A
I was gonna say that's the year they go crazy with just a bunch of shooting around Simmons, right?
- [35:27]
B
Ben. Ben Simmons turns into Magic Johnson and Fultz ends the season with a triple double against the Bucks. And then the playoffs happen. And the playoffs were not, you know, they were kind of a classic Sixers playoff, which is like I think a. A rock fight with the. The Nets or the Raptors in the first round. And then a second round exit to the, I believe the Celtics this year.
- [35:46]
A
Heat in the first round, Celtics in the second round where Marcus Morris for the Celtics made the 30 gesture in and beat his face. I was at that game. That's the confetti falls when they think Bellanelli's hit the game. Game winning three, but it's actually foot on the line, game tying two. We're going to overtime. I believe they ended up winning that game anyway.
- [36:04]
B
I think I just had a mild heart attack when you said that. I forgot about that.
- [36:10]
A
Really interesting pick. So I.
- [36:12]
B
This is the. This is the road not travel for this team. Because it. There's a version of it where they say, damn, like we have a great young team that's growing together with some good veterans like JJ and what if we run it back and just tweak a little bit around the edges and hope that Simmons and Embiid continue to get better. But already there was this kind of obsession like canon. Can Joelle and Ben share the court? Can you do something? Can you play if there's not that much shooting? Because you've got two guys who are a little bit negative this is before Embiida kind of like developed an outside shot. So, yeah, I think that there's a version of the Sixers that are not unlike the Thunder from five years before that tried to pluck away at the. With the. The sort of core that they had drafted, but instead they started going a little bit more Hog wild, shopping for All Stars.
- [37:00]
A
I don't know.
- [37:00]
B
This was my favorite team, though.
- [37:02]
A
It's a great pick. It was not even on my radar. The Sixers teams that were on my radar were the 1819 team when Butler comes in mid season and that's obviously the Kawhi shot in game 7 team. Better team by far, but it was a very good team. It complicated Simmons sort of place within the franchise in a way that turned out to be irrevocable. Interesting.
- [37:26]
B
Yeah.
- [37:27]
A
And Brett Pounce. That's right. By the way, at the end of this, I'm going to do sort of like an immemorial. Just remember some guys. Guys, this guy was not on my list, but I just. I haven't thought of Timothy Luwu Cabarro in like five years. Come on. I just remember if that guy could only hit some corner threes. Like if I could only hit some corner threes. And the other team I had was. I think it was the 1112 Sixers, which was like Iguodala and like the night. The night shift guys off the man.
- [37:55]
B
That was like, that was my first. One of my first big Grantland pieces was that Doug Collins team. And that series against the Celtics where Gems. Yeah, yeah.
- [38:07]
A
Well, they started 16 and 6 and I remember going to some of those games to be like, they might have. They might like have something here with this crew. It's a fun team.
- [38:15]
B
That was also back in the day of Bill Simmons potting every seven weeks and mentioning Evan Turner just does stuff. I like it.
- [38:24]
A
Evan Turner, still an NBA character. All right. That means the fourth pick in the draft goes to me. And this is when it was going to get tough because I knew the Hawks were going to be untouched by. Did you even have the 1415 Hawks.
- [38:33]
B
Like I did just because of it? That's just personal aesthetics. Over. But I acknowledge their greatness.
- [38:39]
A
So now I have a bunch of Western Conference teams that I'm going to choose from. Several of them are from the. The individual 2012-13 season, which is several.
- [38:49]
B
Western Conference teams from the 201213 season. So it gets interesting here.
- [38:53]
A
So I am going to take the 201213 Golden State warriors, which was the rise finally of Steph Curry, Steph's first truly great season in the NBA. It's Draymond's rookie season. It's Bogut's second year with the team and it is the proof of concept year for me. Like I'm looking at Steph's stats. Steph averages 23 a game and 78 games after never cracking 18.6 before he finishes 11th in MVP voting. It's the year that they beat Denver in the first round. Denver was another team I considered the. One of the themes of this is like a lot of these teams come, at least on my list when a star leaves and you have to get creative filling the void of that star. So that's the post Carmelo Nuggets they beat and then they lose to the spurs in just an like in. I'm talking in the moment. That series felt like a welcome to serious NBA contention. Golden State warriors, they lose in six. Game one's a miracle double overtime comeback. Ginobili hits a three with one second left in double overdime to win the game for the Spurs. The warriors gut, punch, loss, come back, win Game 2 in San Antonio. It's 2 2. Curry hurts his ankle and plays through it. Bogut hurts his ankle and plays through it so bad to the point that Bob Myers told me years later we weren't sure that they were going to be able to play game seven if we got it to game seven. But it was just that the crystallization of this. This is when I started calling Curry the glitch in the system because he came up against Tim freaking Duncan, one of the greatest defensive players of all time. And he came up against a mostly traditional pick and roll defense, but as polished as any of traditional pick and roll defense could be. And he just lit it on fire. And you could see the spurs being like, we don't know what to do with this. Yeah, it, it, it's a Mark Jackson offense. So it wasn't super creative. It was a little ISO heavy. Etc. Clay's sort of finding his footing as what. What is his role in the league. Draymond's a rookie, but just Steph himself. You could see the spurs being like, oh. And I've talked to spurs coaches about it. They, they the oh was like very, very real. So that was the sort of. I like these young teams figuring themselves out. That was, that was a very high team on my list.
- [41:07]
B
You set me up for the perfect alley because I'm going to go 12, 13 nuggets.
- [41:11]
A
Okay. I love it. Sell me.
- [41:12]
B
This is like you Said massage rebuild after mellow. Right. And you've got Iguidala there. We'll get to him. We have Ty Lawson, Professor Millo Miller.
- [41:26]
A
Yeah.
- [41:27]
B
Ph.D. ill Will Chandler and Corey Brewer plus Mozgov and I think this is Fourier's rookie season in the NBA. I can't remember. I think it is. And this team. Zach imploded down the stretch like an all time George Carl implosion. With Carl later asserting that Andrea Guadalupe was a double agent, a mole for the warriors and that like he was working with Mark Jackson and would then sign with the warriors in the subsequent season. Gallo got hurt in April.
- [42:01]
A
This team was killed him was an.
- [42:03]
B
All time league pass team. Like and you would just watch every night and you're like is Ty Lawson like a top 10 player? Like I trust me when I tell you that if you were up at night watching Nuggets games that season there were nights you believed that and it was really it all ended when Gallo gets hurt in April and then the next season it's gone. Carl gets fired, Iggy goes to Golden State unlocking a dynasty for them in some ways. And it's just a team that never was. But I always love this is kind of my version of your Hawks team. Maybe not as successful in the regular season but so fun to watch. And really you're just like I just don't know how they're going to do it on any given night but they keep doing it. Farid's got 16 boards. It's only the third quarter.
- [42:48]
A
Peak. Peak. Manimal People probably laughed when you said ty Lawson top 10 player. He finished 12th in MVP voting.
- [42:57]
B
They used to have a country. Yeah.
- [42:59]
A
I mean Andre Miller is just, I mean look an old school post guard who a point guard who never exercises and or just he roller skates. That's his exercising and posts up and beats the hell out of people. Throws lob passes to guys who just run and dunk. Like Farid and JaVale McGee.
- [43:15]
B
Yes.
- [43:15]
A
It's catnip for me. They played super fast. They had a unique like dribble drive offense modeled on a college offense because they just didn't have enough shooting but they had tons of speed. They're like how can we take advantage of this? And this is now you're. I'm remembering this. This was the year I, I remember noticing Javale McGee standing out of bounds on purpose on offense as a way of creating spacing for lineups that didn't have spacing and the league actually either changed a rule or had to remind George Carl that you're actually not allowed to stand out of bounds on purpose. That's how creative this team had to get. They were super fun. That's a great pick. All right.
- [43:51]
B
Thank you so much.
- [43:53]
A
I'm now on it's now with me 6.
- [43:54]
B
When's the last time Ty Lawson's been mentioned on one of your podcasts? It's been too long.
- [43:59]
A
It has been too long. It. It's been. That's all I'll say. It's been too long. I'm trying to think if I should go just like classic or, or a little off the beaten path. I'm gonna go classic. I'm gonna take. I'm going to take the 20112012 San Antonio spurs, who went 50 and 16. They acquired Boris Diao in the middle of the season after he was bought out from the Bobcats. The pathetic ass Bobcats. And just something about Diao's passing and wine drinking and, and you know, just general demeanor. Just caught magic in San Antonio. Kawhi was in, I believe his second year. No, he's a rookie. He's a rookie in that year. And they end up the season going 21 and 2 in the last 23 games in the regular season, sweep their first two playoff series, take the first two games from Oklahoma City in the conference finals. They are on a 20 game winning streak at that point in the conference finals. And then this is what part of, part of what makes them lovable to me, the Thunder just punched them in the mouth four times in a row and are like basically saying to them all your like passing and ball movement and KG veteran. This, that's cool. We got a bunch of young dudes who play really hard. We're just going to jump over you and run past you and dunk the ball on your face. Deal with that. Harden in his last big moment as the Thunder player hits a shot that basically hits a three step back three to basically clinch the conference finals and send the spurs into like despair, existential crisis.
- [45:36]
B
Right?
- [45:36]
A
Yeah, like, just like do like everyone remembers the Ray Allen shot and the despair after that in 2013. This was the despair of like we're starting to really perfect the way we play and we just got punched in the mouth by this Thunder team that's too young and too energetic for us. And the ghosts of that series live on in 2014 in the conference finals when they face off again and Ibaka misses the first two games of that series, comes back, the Thunder even it up. And I can tell you for sure. The spurs at 22 in that series are like, are these guys going to do that to us again in a year where we're out for vengeance? From the Ray Allen shot from the 2013 finals and then they overcome that team. But I think that spurs team was a really underrated, fun spurs team. Danny Green's first, like, real year in the league. It's like, there's a lot of fun stuff with that team.
- [46:26]
B
That's a great pick. I remember that series. I remember. I remember there was. There was stuff like happening in that series with a baka that was just like, there. There is no. There is no fix for this. He can just cover most of a court in two strides and shut down stuff. It was unreal.
- [46:46]
A
Well, that's why Kawhi was such a massive moment for the spurs, as we all know, you know, Finals MVP and then another one in Toronto. But he was like the answer to our cool, like Tony Parker, Tim Dunker, Manu Diao, Splitter, ball movement, no one can jump over a phone book kind of stuff, like, can only get us so far. We need like a dude who can go toe to toe with all dudes. And that was. That was Kawhi. And of course they. They take the ball movement stuff to a whole new level in 2014. But there had to be a Spurs team on this list. I just had to put a Spurs team on.
- [47:19]
B
Yeah, I will do a team that I think. I don't know that I have a ton of like, personal affection for, as much as I just feel bad for them. And that's the 1314 Indiana Pacers.
- [47:34]
A
Interesting.
- [47:35]
B
Yeah, this is the kind of the epitome or the apex of the hill. Lance PG, David West, Roy Herbert. We are built to beat LeBron. Like we have. Like, everything about this is about making sure that we are in our best situation to play against LeBron at the end of a season. They start the season 11 and 1. I think it was like, if I remember correctly, like, there was a lot of like, it's the Pacers conference to lose talk. It's too bad that they didn't. I think that that team needed. It was Danny Granger. It wound. He wound up. Obviously his career kind of fell apart because of injuries, but there was something that that team lacked to get over the hump. Aside from just running into one of the greatest one or two players in the history of the league at his one arguable, arguably his prime. I have a soft stop spot for teams to bust their ass in the. In the regular season. And I thought they did that. And look, they just ran into a buzzsaw.
- [48:37]
A
I, I debated which of those Pacers teams should be, should be my pick, if any. And, and since you picked one, I'm not going to pick any of them. But I, I landed on the 1213 Pacers that also lost to the conference, to the Heat in the conference finals. That's the series. When Paul George dunks over, who did he dunk over? I think Birdman. And LeBron high fives him at half court in the middle of the game. It was like this classic, like, all right, you're one of us now. Like you're one of the real guys now. The 1314 team, they started out on fire and then they kind of petered out toward the end of the regular season in a way that had people wondering, like, is something wrong with this team? And then if you Remember, that's the first round series, the 18 series against the Hawks where the Hawks just put Pero Antich at center, spread the floor completely, and basically like end Roy Hibbert as like a reliable player. That's right, take, take the Pacers to seven in a 18 series. And it was like a six game series against Miami in the conference finals, but not one you ever thought they were going to win. I ended up preferring the 1213 team because they felt.
- [49:47]
B
Did they roll faster towards the conference finals?
- [49:49]
A
Okay, well, they just, they just felt more like, they felt newer, I guess. And I was at a lot of their games. They played the Knicks in the, the conference semis. The mellow team, which is also on my list, the 1213 Knicks with mellow, that win 54 games and they beat them at six. Those teams were fun because they just, they, they just like happened suddenly. Like, suddenly the starting five makes sense. They add David west, they, Lance Stevenson develops. It's like, wait, this team, they were like the, they were not supposed to be what they were. They, the Bulls were supposed to be them. Like the Derrick Rose injury changed the Eastern Conference and opened up this void and they filled it and they like, they kind of pushed Miami's buttons. Like they were physical, they were nasty. They beat the. Out of their. Like Shane Batt used to tell me, playing small ball four against David west, like, sucks. He just beats me up the entire game. And lance is annoying. LeBron, it's a good pick. It's a good pick. This 1314 Pacers, another franchise that had to be there. All right, anything else on them?
- [50:46]
B
No, that's it. So that's I've got four now.
- [50:50]
A
You have made. I guess I, I thought that was the seventh pick in the draft. Yeah. So four. Yeah, I have eight and 10. All right. This is a deep cut. I have a deep love and will always have a deep love for the 201415 Portland Trailblazers.
- [51:06]
B
I had them.
- [51:08]
A
This is the team where Wes Matthews tears his Achilles like 2/3 of the way through the season. And it just punches a hole in their team and they're never the same. And they lose to the Grizzlies in the first round. And lamarcus Aldridge, who was also dealing with an ankle injury, leaves in free agency for the Spurs. CJ McCollum, like basically doesn't play the entire year and then in the playoffs out of desperation, emerges, is like, okay, this guy's interesting. And I love this team. This is Btoom and Dame and Robin Lopez and LaMarcus Aldridge. And it was this team that just caught a little bit of magic and became greater than the sum of its parts and sort of like looked like could they actually win the championship? And they were really fun to watch. They could do a lot. Like LA's mid range game was so old school and smooth. They could play a lot of different ways. They made a trade for Aaron to follow to bolster their bench halfway through the season. I just thought they were really fun. They, Terry Stotts, his motion offense was fun. They were just this fun. Everything suddenly locked into place and made you think like, oh, could, could they actually be a real, a real thing? And then it all unraveled in a way that was very sort of like the pathos of that team was very deep.
- [52:23]
B
Yeah. And the Blazers have a kind of injury bug franchise wide that hangs over some of their best teams and their greatest prospects.
- [52:33]
A
Yeah. This is four years after, you know, if you, if you opened up this draft to just like your favorite single season teams of this entire era, finals or whatever, I bet the 2011 Mavericks champions would be at the top of people's lists. And you know, this is 2015 Blazers. So four years before the famous Brandon Roy game happens against Dallas in that playoff run where he just comes out of nowhere and goes bananas to tie the series with like old school Brandon, Brandon Roy stuff. After all the knee issues that ruined his career and he basically was the last big thing he did. And it's one of like the all time holy moments from our NBA careers. I think.
- [53:13]
B
I'm gonna go for my final pick here at nine. I'm gonna go a little bit wild card. So A lot of my time spent at Grantland, I worked with my buddy Andrew Sharp, who is a huge Zards fan. So I wanted to pick Wizards team. I'm calling this Ernie Grunfield's mass masterpiece. The 1617 Wizards under Scott Brooks. So this is two Scott Brooks teams.
- [53:38]
A
I'm so mad.
- [53:40]
B
This is the wall, Beal Porter Jr. Gore TOT team. That was just like, man, if you were ever going to believe in Wall and Beal, this was the year. And this is also. They were pretty close. They had a bunch of guys on the bench. Brandon Jennings, Thomas Satoransky. Yim God, Brandon.
- [53:57]
A
I have no memory of Brandon Jennings.
- [53:59]
B
Yeah, Marcus Thornton was on this team. This features one of my. The game six that Wall has against the Celtics in the conference semis. When he hits the three over Avery Bradley, there's like three seconds left, time runs out, and Wall jumps up on the scores table inside the phone booth. One of my favorite moments in recent NBA history. And look, man, how can you not be romantic about basketball? Watch. Watching John Wall and. And Bradley Beal actually play together, I think they both played more than 70 games each this season. And this was as good as it got for me. They were 49, 33. Maybe that doesn't scream Larry O', Brien, but I think John Wall did scream that when he jumped up on the scores table.
- [54:43]
A
Wasn't this. Was this the year the Celtics and the Wizards traded back and forth dressing in black?
- [54:49]
B
Yes, the funeral game.
- [54:51]
A
Love a good funeral game. Just particularly from teams who were like, neither of you guys is going to win the championship.
- [54:57]
B
Yeah, but this was. And there was also the Isaiah Thomas Celtics team. So it wasn't like an indestructible Celtics team. It was in the realm of possibility that the Wizards could have won that series.
- [55:07]
A
No, for sure, it's. It's the Kelly Olenek game in game seven. I remember exactly where I was during that game. I was in Oakland watching that game at a bar with the warriors coach. And we were like, what is happening in this game? Is this like what the Eastern Conference is? It's Isaiah. It's Isaiah Thomas and Kelly Olenek against John Wall. Very fun team. I actually, by the way, I had two Celtics teams on my list. This team and the 1718 team that gets to the conference finals with like scary Terry Edwards hurt. Kyrie's hurt, Tatum's, Duncan on. LeBron is a rookie. I have three Wizards teams in contention and I was actually thinking of picking one of them with my last pick, but now I won't this team, the 1415 team that we already talked about took the Hawks to game six. That's Paul Pierce called game. That's that year.
- [55:53]
B
That was awesome. I remember that. Yeah.
- [55:56]
A
And just for shits and giggles, 201011 whiz. Wait, is it. Let me check my notes. I think it's 1112, actually. Yeah, 1112 whiz is peak comedy whiz. It's Nick Young before he gets traded to the Clippers. It's Javale. It's Andre Blatch, Jordan Crawford. It's 10. It's the year Ted Leoncis wrote the since deleted blog post about how Jordan Crawford, Andre Blatch and John Wall were the new Big Three.
- [56:26]
B
I think I still have that saved to PDF if anybody needs it deleted.
- [56:30]
A
It's the year that Nick, because of the lockout, Nick young and Jabale McGee did the cinnamon Challenge. It's the year that there was the viral clip of javale running the wrong way on the court and like running off the TV screen and the entire team being like, dude, can you come? Like, can you come back? We still have the ball. And then he comes running back. It just. They sucked, but they sucked in.
- [56:50]
B
Look how happy the Wizards make us, though, you know?
- [56:53]
A
Three different teams in contention, so I won't pick them. All right? I've already picked the spurs team, so. Apologies to the 201617 Spurs. The final real Kawhi team. The Zaza Steps on His Foot team. Apologies to the 2019, 2020 Raptors team. Post Kawhi, they sort of milked the beautiful game for all it's worth. Apologies to the 201011 Thunder team. That was going to be my Thunder team that rises through to make the Western Conference finals and loses to the Mavs. They're not quite the Thunder yet, but they're like, that's the big leap year. Apologies to the 201011 Bulls. The Derrick Rose MVP year. Carlos Boozer comes to the Bulls. Kyle Korver and Tibbs, they all come to the Bulls together. Apologies.
- [57:39]
B
Did you have the 1819 bucks?
- [57:43]
A
No, I did not.
- [57:44]
B
I like that team. That was the Brogdon Hill backcourt. Giannis going, just absolute beast mode.
- [57:51]
A
Yeah, they got mowed over by the Raptors in the in.
- [57:54]
B
Although they were up to oh, and go double overtime in Game 3 in Toronto. And you're like, this could happen. And it didn't.
- [58:02]
A
And they lost four in a row, I believe.
- [58:04]
B
Yes.
- [58:05]
A
Apologies to the 201011 Clippers. Blake Griffin's rookie year.
- [58:10]
B
Oh, yeah, we don't have A Lob City team.
- [58:12]
A
Pre Lob City. It's pre Lob City. No, no. The Lob City teams were like, like almost. I'm trying to think of what the right word is. They were like almost mechanical in their basketball brilliance. Like they were. Despite the highlight dunks. They were never that like super fun to. For to watch.
- [58:31]
B
I also had so much affection. I was living in LA then and going to a fair amount of Clippers at that time because Grantland was right by what was then Staples and I just really. We. I mean, I don't think we have a grit and grind team here, do we?
- [58:45]
A
We're about to. We're about to have a grit and grind team.
- [58:47]
B
I'm glad I could lay it out because like I. I remember sort of like very silently like cheering for Memphis at like in person at some of those games.
- [58:57]
A
I'm picking them mostly because all these teams are relatively equal in my heart. And so we haven't mentioned them. We've mentioned a lot of the other franchises before. I'm going to pick the 201213 Memphis Grizzlies who make the conference finals and get swept by the Spurs. It's the year Gasol wins defensive player of the year. They had the number two defense in the league that year. They do benefit from the Russ. The aforementioned Russ injury in the second round of the playoffs. And it's just. They were. I mean, how could you not lie? Like Tony Allen. First team, first team, all defense. First team, all defense. Z Bo Just beating a lot of people. Tayshawn Prince came back to the Grizzlies that year in the Rudy Gay trade. They sent Rudy Gay out. They got a bunch of good players, including Ed Davis, who really helped their team. Mike Conley. How can you not love Mike Conley? They were the basketball nerds team for two or three years and just like an unbelievable stat. I was looking at their playoff stats as I was. As I was thinking about whether I would pick them or not in the playoffs. This is not. This is 12 years ago. It's not like 40 years ago in the playoffs. Their average threes per game, 4.8. Makes 14.8 attempts. Like that was a real. That was a real NBA team that made the conference finals 12 years ago. 4.8 threes a game and their defensive.
- [60:12]
B
Rating was like in the 80s.
- [60:14]
A
Right in the regular season it was 99 something. I don't know what it was in the playoffs. Just like how. But they just. They were a great passing team. Gasol from the. Gasol was like Jokic light before Jokic just as a passer like the creativity he had the bowling ball pass you throw like underhand almost roll the ball sometimes. Just a delightful team. There had to be a grit and grind team.
- [60:35]
B
Did we not have a post bubble team?
- [60:40]
A
I guess we didn't.
- [60:41]
B
Interesting reverse recency bias.
- [60:43]
A
Do you. I mean I'll just very quickly read. I have a very long list. You want me to read some?
- [60:47]
B
You hit off a bunch of mine but go ahead.
- [60:49]
A
Beam team Kings.
- [60:51]
B
Yes.
- [60:53]
A
Suns 2022 that lose to Dallas. The meltdown against Dallas team the Jazz with Gobert and Mitchell never did it for me.
- [61:07]
B
What about T Wolves Gobert the first the first push to the conference finals?
- [61:12]
A
No. I had a Rubio love the best Rubio love team was on my Rubio love Pekovich that was on my list somewhere but not. You're right. Not a lot of posts. Not a lot of post bubble teams. Trying to think. I'm trying to see if there's any other interesting teams I wanted to mention. We got most of them. You know the 1314 Bobcats we were talking about before we got on the air Kemba and Big Al. Big Al making the all NBA team with the just one post up bucket.
- [61:39]
B
Can'T be bringing the Big east back down Charlotte.
- [61:43]
A
No. I think we. I think we hit them all. We're one year out of the 910 Phoenix team that made the conference finals and lost to the Lakers on Kobe's airball. That was put back by Powell. I think.
- [61:56]
B
Yeah.
- [61:58]
A
That was one of my favorite teams. I have a bunch of other teams that I just. I just made a very long list and crossed a lot out that don't. I don't just didn't really speak to me those. That's my list.
- [62:06]
B
Yeah. I mean it's like it wasn't a favorite but they are one of the probably better teams to not make a finals is. Is the. The team that the Clippers team that basically under had to go through the Sterling saga.
- [62:19]
A
They're on my list. Yeah.
- [62:21]
B
And I don't have anybody else very. We didn't really mention the Rockets.
- [62:25]
A
I have the 1718 rockets.
- [62:28]
B
I have them on my long list.
- [62:29]
A
They won 65 games took the warriors to seven CP's hurt at the end of the series. They missed 27 straight threes. They get dinged points because they were never the most dynamic team because Harden was just such like a slow it down chess master. And then also the next year where Daryl Morey releases his referee dossier.
- [62:48]
B
Oh yeah.
- [62:49]
A
The detailed report about how the refs really cost him the game and this and that. Like, you get docked points for that. That was fun.
- [62:56]
B
This is a very fun exercise.
- [62:57]
A
I couldn't go on and on. Can we do all right? In the course of doing this, I just kept finding guys.
- [63:04]
B
Yes.
- [63:04]
A
Who I just had forgotten about. So I prepared my in memoriam.
- [63:09]
B
I. Can we put a little bit of light jazz or. Or mournful classical over this?
- [63:13]
A
Maybe for the video. We got to do something. This is my in. I really worked hard to limit it to just these names because just, like, you know, not everyone can get in. But there's always the joke about how, you know, guys get together. A sports car, just start the sports bar.
- [63:27]
B
Just naming dudes.
- [63:28]
A
Let's name some guys. So I just like, let's name some guys in memoriam. Forgotten NBA guys. I hope they're all alive. I think they are in no particular order. So there's no hammer here. Like, Bill always talks about the hammer, although I kind of accidentally do have a hammer. Josh Harrelson. Ivan Johnson. Your boy, Lavoy Allen.
- [63:49]
B
Yeah.
- [63:50]
A
Allen Anderson. Sundiata Gaines. Jeff Ayers. Slash Pendergraaff.
- [64:01]
B
Slash. Not. Not hyphen. Yeah.
- [64:03]
A
Former nay Pendergraph.
- [64:05]
B
Yeah.
- [64:06]
A
John Lure. Larry Sanders.
- [64:10]
B
Oh, Larry.
- [64:11]
A
Alonzo G. Chris Douglas Roberts. You had to have been a guy that actually had to, like, know and write about or think about. Like, it couldn't have been that.
- [64:21]
B
Fringy CR Is great. On the Memphis Tigers.
- [64:24]
A
Yeah. Jamario Moon, Luke Babbitt. Andrew Gowdelock, Mikey Moore. Francisco Garcia. Marcus Thornton. Jeff. Adrian Gustavo. Ion.
- [64:45]
B
Yeah.
- [64:46]
A
Chris Copeland, Johan Petro, David Anderson. We're almost done. John Salmons, Chris Wilcox. Luke Heron. Gotti. Kylo Quinn. Remember Kylo Quinn? I sure do hit some mid Rangers. Good passer. Good beard. Von Wafer. Lester Hudson. And Anthony Randolph.
- [65:16]
B
Anthony Randolph is absolutely the Hammer. He is the. The stuff dreams are made of. I can't tell you how many of those dudes. I was also trying to remember where they played college ball because, like, that would have been a time when I remembered all of that. I believe Lavoy Allen was a Temple owl. So go out.
- [65:31]
A
He's. Yeah, I was gonna say Villanova or Temple. He's somewhere Philly. And then he played.
- [65:37]
B
List. Zach.
- [65:39]
A
Yeah, I. Look, I worked hard on it. I had to call it. There's some guys who, you know, maybe next year.
- [65:43]
B
Yeah, you know.
- [65:46]
A
All right, Chris Ryan. What do we got coming up? I know you're recording some stuff tomorrow. What do we got?
- [65:50]
B
Doing the Watch. We'll be talking about the finale of Alien Earth and the new season of Slow Horses. And then I'm doing the big picture with Sean and Amanda and talking about one battle after another.
- [65:59]
A
You've seen it.
- [66:00]
B
I have not. I'm going tonight.
- [66:02]
A
I'm so. Everyone is like, I. I read Vineland over the summer in preparation for this PTA movie, and everyone is like, it's even better than you would expect. I'm so excited.
- [66:13]
B
Book club. What are you just reading novels for without turning them into content?
- [66:16]
A
Well, I mean, I guess I don't. Vineland. I couldn't even do a podcast about Vineland. It's not even possible.
- [66:21]
B
Like, it's just potting about books is tougher than it looks. We need and Andy did loan some dove. We had a great time, but it's been difficult to pick another one.
- [66:28]
A
All right, Chris Ryan, thank you, sir. I'll see you soon in New York. Actually, I'll see you soon. That's it for today's episode of the Zach Lowe Show. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. Thank you for everything. We'll be sooner than later. Thank you to Chris Ryan, thank you to Jesse and John, and thanks again, everyone, for listening and watching the Zach Lowe Show. See you soon.