← The Zach Lowe Show
The Zach Lowe Show
NBA News of the Week and Predictions With Steve Nash, Plus Aaron Nesmith on the Pacers' Season Ahead
01:38:36
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- [00:04]
A
When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together. Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn more@WhatsApp.com all right, we got a loaded Zach Lowe show coming up for your Thursday listening pleasure. A couple newsy things happened after we got off with Steve Nash and Aaron Neesmith. Thought I would just address them real quick up front. Number one, Jaden Ivy underwent knee surgery. He will be reevaluated in four weeks. Reevaluated does not mean back in four weeks. It means reevaluated could end up missing a quarter of the season. 20 games. Ish. I mean 4 weeks would be 15 games. Round up from there. It's a significant loss for the Pistons, who also lost Dennis Scher in the off season. Marcus Sasser is a decent stopgap option. Caris Lavert is sort of a hybrid guard. If you don't want to play Sasser, you can play Lavert as a backup point guard. But you know the sort of formula for the Pistons to sustain or improve on what they had last season was out went Schroeder, Hardaway and Beasley. In came Ivy back from injury, Duncan Robinson and Lavert. I thought that was just either lateral or even maybe in a slight step up, an all around play. But that that required Ivy to be healthy and a starter next to Cade Cunningham. That was the plan. I think he shot 41% on catch and shoot threes last year. That's the blueprint. Second side pick and roll. Swing it.
- [01:39]
B
Boom.
- [01:39]
A
You run the, you run the offense coming off the screen, fast pace. You don't get to run it run it. That's Cade's job. You get to run it when Cade's on the bench. Stagger the minutes. That plan goes up in smoke a little bit. And look, I took the under on Detroit at 46 and a half. I still think they're on a nice upward swing. The wild card in that taking the under is they have the goods to make a whole lot of trades. Any trade they kind of want, guy like Lowry Marketing would fit there. Well, we'll see. I still think they're on a nice upward trend. Still think they're going to be a top six team in the playoffs this year. But this opens up a little crack in that top six for someone below that, you know, a Boston and Indiana, a Miami to sort of punch up. A Toronto to sort of punch up a little bit and see what happens. But I, I still love Detroit. This, this hurts. They've got some solutions, but this hurts. And it's bad timing for Ivey as he is obviously eligible for an extension. If you'll recall, with Fred Katz of the Athletic, we predicted all the sort of leftover, big picture, high wattage, whatever rookie deal, extensions. I was a no on Jayden Ivey. I didn't see a deal happening. Anyway, this would make it seem less likely to me. Jalen Duran. I was a team tentative yes on. I don't know how I'm feeling about that. We'll talk about the Keegan Murray extension on this episode. By the way, the other thing that happened, A.J. green, as I have predicted several times, signed a four year, 45 million dollar extension with the Milwaukee Bucks. A.J. green's a good player. Fits well with Giannis for as long as Giannis is there. Could be forever. Could not be forever. Has a great pick and roll combination with chemistry with Giannis as the screener. Pop out, flop, fly out for threes. He's great at that. Better defender than you think. Moves his feet pretty well. He's strong. It's a good deal for him. Obviously he locks in a huge amount of money coming off a borderline minimum contract. Good deal for the Bucks. They get a good player. I bet AG Green outperforms that contract, but it's a fair deal for both sides. The guy's just a rock solid player. If he starts this year, that might be like, you know, out kicking his ideal role a little bit. But he fits with Giannis and he's a good player. That's a good deal. That's what you pay for good players. So those are the two newsy tidbits. All right now, Steve Nash. Yeah, that's Steve Nash, the MVP joined us. He's on Amazon this year. He's on prime. We talked all the big picture stuff coming into the NBA season. I made him. He's going to have to be. He's in the media. He's going to have to give takes, he's going to have to make people mad, he's going to have to criticize people. So we had him go through the news of the weekend. Keegan Murray, Russell Westbrook at the Kings. We had him predict his awards winners for the year and both of us predicted and the NBA Finals matchup and pick the 2026 NBA champions. That's coming up with Steve Nash and then Aaron Neesmith. Remember Niecemith island when there was nobody there? It's popular now. And Aaron Neesmith, the Aaron Neesmith of Neesmith island fame joins us to talk about the Pacers crazy playoff run, his role in the crazy playoff run and some of the crazy comebacks, the Halliburton injury and how the Pacers are going to make the doubters like me look stupid this year. That's all coming up on the Zach Lowe Show. You're listening to the Zach Low show presented by FanDuel. The SMBA season put the power of the sportsbook in your hands with fanduel's you way. You, way lets you create bets you can't find anywhere else. You can set your own lines or customize player props and you'll get new odds instantly. Plus with your way, you can even make head to head bets by position or player. Just download the Phantom Sportsbook app to play and your way must be 21 over in President select states and 18 or over in DC, Kentucky and Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-887-897777 or visit ccpg.org chatinconnecticut. Welcome to the Zach Lowe show. And look who it is. Amazon prime analyst, host of a Mind the Game podcast that features some other player. I don't know who it is. Two time NBA MVP hall of Famer Steve Nash. Wow. How are you doing?
- [05:40]
B
Doing great, thanks, Zach. How are you?
- [05:41]
A
I miss anything?
- [05:44]
B
No, that's about it. I don't know.
- [05:47]
A
So you're a very nice person. You're a good teammate. Are you ready for this media thing where you're really going to have to start like letting the takes fly? Are you ready?
- [05:57]
B
You know, I don't know if I'm going to be Mr. Take, but I'm ready. I think it's, it's exciting. You know, one, it's been fun to, to sit with LeBron regularly talk hoops and then now, you know, like we just had three days of rehearsals with Taylor to the rooks, my good buddy Dirk Nowitzki, Blake Griffin, you, Donna Haslam, and the five of us just having a blast all day talking hoops, trying to get our, you know, our, our, our game going, so to speak. And it's been a lot of fun. I don't, you know, I didn't know what to expect. I think I was kind of a little apprehensive and I'm sure there'll be some ne opening night, but it's just so fun to sit with those guys and talk. And Taylor's a pro, so I'm excited.
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A
For that as well. She's very, very good. You guys are going to have a very good show. It's a good crew. Minus Dirk. I think Dirk is replaceable.
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B
Dispensable.
- [06:44]
A
All right, well, we might as well just dive right into it. Like takes news. This is what you're going to have to do now for a living. So you probably saw on Instagram I was very mean to the Sacramento Kings on Bill's over under podcast. I said I hate the roster. Doesn't mean I like individual parts. Like we all love watching DeMar DeRozan shoot 20 footers. Sabonis bringing the ball up. Zach Levine is smooth as hell and dunks on everybody. Like I like the pieces, I just hate how they fit. I am astonished at how a team could be so bad for so long and yet have so few enticing high upside young players. Although we're going to hit knee. Clifford, I kind of like him. It's astonishing to me that a team could have two all star all NBA level point guards and then like you blink it, they have zero. And yet they also have 9,000 guards on the team. Not enough forwards. And over the weekend to help cure all of that, they signed Russell Westbrook. Another guard, another person who needs the ball, another person who can't shoot threes for a team that was 24th in three point rate last year. He's a big name. He had moments for Denver last year including in his revenge series against the Clippers, one of the greatest technical foul maybe of all time in NBA history. Is this anything Steve Nash, can he help this team at all?
- [08:02]
B
Of course he can help him. Russ is going to find a way to impact games. You know, he's with his whether it's his cutting or an offensive rebound or you know, the odd ISO still there to be able to maybe catch and go and attack a closeout. But big picture, it's just interesting. Like where are they going? Like what's their out button here? You know they're in the Western Conference. I don't see them making a playoff push. So where are the ass? You know, obviously Murray is down right now but you know you just try to look around and say like what's the next step, the next evolution for their team? And that's where I think we all kind of scratch our head.
- [08:37]
A
Yeah. And they don't have like much coming in in terms of like draft equity, considering they just did a big Fox trade. They have half of a Spurs pick in 2027 that they're not likely to get because it's. They'd have to. Spurs would have to miss the playoffs for the Kings to get it. Then they have a Minnesota pick in 2031 that was kind of a golden. A golden pick. But they also have to swap their own pick with San Antonio, has swap rights with them in that same year, which is a disaster because anytime you can swap with the Kings, it's generally a good thing. I just look at this team like, I'm sorry, Kings fans. None of. They're not even mad. They're just not even mad. They're. They're just like. I know, I know. It's like the starting lineup's going to be Schroeder, DeRozan Murray, when he's healthy, we'll get to that. Sabonis. And then off the bench, it's just a bunch of guards. Monk, Russ Carter, Keon Ellis. I like Nick Clifford. Got some big guys. This Renault kid from France that they drafted is interesting. Drew Eubanks. I don't know who the backup power forward is. I don't know how all. I mean, this is an interesting puzzle piece for you as a person who put the puzzle together and made it work as your job. DeMar needs the ball and doesn't shoot threes. LaVine needs the ball, does shoot threes. So what does it look like when their best three point shooter has the ball? Schroeder needs the ball. Russ needs the ball. Monk needs the ball. Sabonis needs the ball and often controls like. And you can like. I think Russell helped them with Pace. Right. One cure for a so so shooting team is just run like hell. So your spacing doesn't even matter. You just put the shot up before you're spacing. But. And, and you can see like all these guys are very high IQ players. So they'll be. There'll be sets in the half court where the cutting, the handoffs, all that stuff can work. But like, how does this actually work? I. They're going to be a bad defensive team. If they're a bad offensive team, they're going to be an abysmal overall team.
- [10:22]
B
Well, I think you summed it up. I think they're just not a playoff defensive team. Like, their defense can't get them to the playoffs. So offensively they got plenty of guys who can play basketball. It's just how do they fit together? You know, Sabon is going to shoot more threes, give Demar more room to operate, but then the ball is not in Zach's hands. It's probably going to be your best kind of cat and mouse playmaker. Getting in the guts, collapsing the defense. But if you're collapsing a defense, you got no one to throw it out to, you know, that becomes a problem. So I think, you know, they're going to have to come up with some interesting lineups, I think, like, who does Monk play with? You know, who does Russ play with? Demar, what's his best lineup? Probably staggering him, or maybe he comes out at first and goes back in, runs a second unit. So they got to try to figure out some of these lineups because I think that's going to be the biggest puzzle for them is what, what are the matchups, what are the players that can play together, what, what lineups can offer spacing while you still have your better players on the floor? It's. It's a puzzle. Some of those lineups are going to be small, some of those bigger. If you want to go big, you're not going to have enough shooting. So I think that's, that's going to be a real challenge for them.
- [11:19]
A
Yeah, I was trying to think like, who should Russ play with in five man lineups because he's, he's such a dramatic non shooter the way teams guard him, that it's like playing another center almost. And the answer might be he just shouldn't play much regardless. But he's going to play. I mean, they signed him to play, I would assume. And that just the one that jumps off the page is like if you put Russ and Sabonis and three guys who can make threes like Monk, LaVine, Murray, that could be interesting. If you put Russ plus DeRozan plus Sabonis, I just feel like everything just gets sucked into a black hole in the paint. So this is the puzzle though, right? I mean, you coached, you were also the coach of the Brooklyn Nets. This is what the puzzle you have to solve.
- [12:02]
B
This is the puzzle and this is why shooting is so important in our game. You know, shooting and versatile defenders. And if you don't have that or you're not building towards that, like you're, you're capped. I mean, your ceiling is capped. Like you can, especially in the west. Like how are you going to compete with these playoff teams when other teams can just sit in the lane all night and make you make threes from gu expected to make a bunch of threes that's the most painful experience as a coach to sit out there. Maybe when we were with the Nets when we were banged up and we have a bunch of non shooters and you're trying to find ways to play fast, but otherwise they're just sitting in the lane saying, good luck, have fun all night. So that's going to be a challenge. I think they're going to have to find it and see. Look, are there some lineups where we can hide our shooting deficiencies? Are we going to be big enough? Are we going to be able to defend it all? I mean, the shooting is one thing, but the defending, how are they going to get lineups out there that can defend consistently? So lot of puzzles over there in Sacramento.
- [12:48]
A
Look, I'm tripling down. I had a lot of Kings fans come at me over the weekend being like, yo, we're going to post this clip when the Kings are the 6 seed and win 47 games, 44 games. We're going to mock you and Bill. All right, Like, I obviously I would invite that if you win 47 games, but I locked the under at 35 and a half. I bicycle locked it, I padlocked it and then I spent the weekend googling what other kinds of locks were there. I was texting with Bill, like, don't canals have locks where they like lock up the canal? I'm canal locking it. And I just said, and I'll stand by it. Like, if the goal of this team is to win games and make the playoffs, I think they're in for the year from hell. And it's already started with the Keegan Murray injury. Is Sabonis even going to want to stay here long term? What are all these players doing here? If the goal is not to win, then it's a different story. But that's not how this team is built. I stand by my. This is the Hindenburg of NBA teams. They've got some competition. Like, we'll see how the Pelicans do. They already have a big injury. I just don't like this team. I don't like how they're built. I like a couple of the young players, namely Keegan Murray. Five years, 100 what? 70 million? 140 million. I think five years, 140 extension. I'm two for two on my extension predictions. I was a yes on Jovic and a yes on Murray at about this range. What do you think of Keegan Murray at about $28 million a year.
- [14:11]
B
To be determined. Realistically, though, a player of his size a Developing younger player. That's kind of market nowadays. The guy that can play, you know, both sides of the ball enough and has that frame, you know, that's kind of where the market is now. He's got to prove it still. He's got to continue to become an efficient shooter, be able to tack closeouts and make a play in Blender. He's got to show that he can reliably defend consistently. But, you know, if you're Sacramento, I think that's a player you drafted, you want to develop. You know better than everyone what he's capable of. So you hope there's some insight there that they said. We see him being this type of player, whether that's now or proving it out over the length of the contract. You know, I think the problem is, is like, so if they do have the year from hell, how can they sell their parts? Can they get assets? Can they go to playoff teams and take some of these guys and say, you need that one more piece? Is Monk valuable? Can you get an asset or half an asset or seconds or whatever it is? Because if things aren't going well by Christmas, I think they got to start thinking about what's the next evolution of this franchise.
- [15:14]
A
They should already be thinking about it now. I would agree they are not particularly well prepared for it because again, like, who is the most enticing young player on the team? I think it's Keegan Murray who's fine and I, I, I like his deal fine. I'll get there. I don't think Levine has much trade value with a $49 million player option next season. I don't think DeRozan has much trade value, although his partial guaranteed for next season at 25.7. I don't think Monk has much trade value because of his player option at 27, 28 for 22 million. Like, I just don't, I don't see.
- [15:46]
B
Like, limited amount of homes for those types of deals.
- [15:51]
A
As for Keegan, I think this deal's fine. Like, this is, this is going to be 15% of the cap, and that's just kind of what you pay for a good 3 and D player. Now, for him to really live up to the dealer exceed it, he's just going to have to do. You said Blender attacking closeouts do more stuff with the ball. He's flashed stuff like that, and it just hasn't happened. Like, his usage rate has dropped each year, which is very unusual for a top five pick on a team that, you know, needs him to do something. But he's surrounded by all these dudes who need the ball. So you don't know if it's just the context of the team. He just doesn't get to do it. But to your point, like I went on the second spectrum tracking data, his drives per 100 possessions, he was at five and a half last year. That's extremely low for a rotation player on a team that moves the ball pretty well, where you should get a lot of opportunities to pump, drive, make the next pass. To put it in perspective, Michael Porter Jr. Who's like the poster guy for can you do a little bit more? Was at like three and a half per 100 possessions. The guy who replaced him in Denver, Cam Johnson, is at about 11 and a half, which is not that high, but is like a regular occurrence within the game. That's where Keegan Murray needs to be. Forget about pick and roll. He barely runs any and even post ups. Like I, I thought as a rookie, can this guy at least like, if he gets a point guard switched onto him, do something with it? He had seven post touches all of last season. Like, I just think there are little elements of his game that need to be rounded out and actually think he can round out those elements of the game with more touches. I just don't know that the touches are going to come this year. I believe in his defense, though.
- [17:31]
B
Yeah, that's a great point. And if he's not going to play Blender, if he's not going to post up mismatches, he's got to be elite shooting and elite defending. And so I think he has shown there's flashes there. But it's got to be proven, it's got to be developed. And that's the big thing in the league nowadays. It's so competitive, the margins are so slim. Like whether it's drafting, signing, recruiting, cap, you know, strategy, team building, player development is so important. Everyone's got to invest heavily time resources in player development. And part of that is on the floor and getting. And if a guy doesn't get an opportunity to spread his wings, so to speak, at least a little bit, like fractionally every year, try to expand to be the player he needs to be to kind of maximize that contract and that value in your cap, that becomes tricky.
- [18:19]
A
For the record, I like the deal just fine for both sides. It's a great deal for Keegan Murray. I think it's a fine deal for the Kings. Sign it, move on. Item number three. I don't have a lot of takes on this. Malcolm Brogdon kind of retired semi out of nowhere. Any reaction to that?
- [18:33]
B
Yeah, bummed for him. I think he had a really nice career. A couple all star games I think.
- [18:39]
A
I don't think so. I don't think he ever made six. Man of the year, Rookie of the Year. I don't think any All Star games.
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B
I almost certainly made one but I could be wrong. But was you are.
- [18:49]
A
You are wrong. I'm looking now.
- [18:52]
B
You know what I love to be wrong. So that was good.
- [18:54]
A
Get used to it. We're all going to be wrong a lot. Like I could be wrong about the Kings. Who knows.
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B
Put it this way, he was I think sniffing around an all Star game a year or two there. So solid, solid player. Good player I should say. I think he's been banged up for a while. You know like it just like even more than we would think and expect. You know I think some of these those years he even played I think most recently Indiana where he had more minutes still not not himself, not moving well. So I think it's just under undermined his career and feel for him. But you know I'm not sure anyone at the Knicks really thought he was going to be a big contributor. I think it was just a flyer to see if that former player had something left.
- [19:31]
A
I co sign everything on Malcolm Broadbent very interesting career. A good productive player who also didn't seem to stick anywhere he went. Rookie of the year over Embiid Drover Drover wedge into my friendship with Rachel Nichols that vote she still hasn't forgiven me for voting Malcolm Brogdon over Joel Embiid for Rookie of the Year even though embiid played like 30 something games. I my only reaction present and future to this is I think it might actually be a blessing in disguise for the Knicks because I've already said like I am not if I think Tyler Kolek or Pacom Daddier has even like a 15 chance of becoming a decent rotation player in this year, next year, the year after. I'm not cutting one of those guys or dumping them for the chance that Malcolm Brogdon might be able to stay healthy for half an NBA season and so they now are escape that decision. So best of luck to Malcolm Brogdon and the New York Knicks. Kevon Looney is out for two to three weeks with some knee injury that I didn't understand and had to google. I don't really I mean it just what what's going on with the I just don't understand the Pelicans it's just an injury disaster there all the time. And this is only two or three weeks. I don't want to overreact. It could only be like 5, 8, 10, 12 games. The margin of error is nothing in the Western Conference. And this dude is like the adult in the room and the adult on defense. Executing, putting people in the right places, setting screens like this is just something I've got my eye on. Because he's never been the most athletic dude, he had to overcome a ton of injuries earlier in his career and their centers beyond him are very inexperienced. The whole team has been injury prone. If this lingers or limits him my worry fact, he's not a household name, he's not a star, but my worry factor actually would increase fairly significantly for the Pelicans. I don't know, maybe I'm making a mountain out of a molehill.
- [21:24]
B
Well, look, he's a high IQ player. Cares, you know, does the right things on the floor. He's always playing for the team, for the schemes, for the health of the offense, whatever it may be. He's going to do what's best for the team. The, the bad news and the good news are, are almost the same thing. The bad news is an aging player has had a ton of injuries. The good news is he's played hurt almost his whole career. He's been able to find ways to get things done hurt. So depending on the severity of the injury, you know, he's still such a high IQ player, someone who knows what to be. Way to be the way to connect teammates both ends of the floor. You know, if it's not like something that's really taking him to the other side of the spectrum physically, he's still going to be able to have an impact. I think he'll have an impact as long as he can play some minutes because I think his IQ and his way to kind of teach on the fly, some of the younger players be the adult in the room, as you said, that'll be valuable. But again, like Western Conference, like you said, I mean, it doesn't matter who you are. If you lose a rotation guy that you were expecting to play, that that knocks you down a peg. I don't know many teams in the west that can afford to lose a rotation guy and stay within one or two spots of where they're expected to be.
- [22:30]
A
Well, especially a team that, to refresh your memory, perhaps will owe its pick unprotected to somebody this year because of a batshit insane trade to move up and draft Derrick Queen at number 13. Derrick Queen may be very good. Just the value proposition of the trade was insane. And Derrick Queen's already inj Atlanta for those who forgot will receive the best, the Highest of Milwaukee's 26 first round. 2026 first round pick and the Pelicans 2026 first round pick and Milwaukee gets the second best of those. New Orleans gets a big pile of nothing out of the whole thing other than Derek Queen, obviously. I'm just talking picks, nothing. So both Atlanta and Milwaukee just start cycle. Okay. Interesting.
- [23:12]
B
I mean, obviously you. The world has talked ad nauseam about this pick and this trade. I and moving forward for the Pelicans, like, the number one thing is what do we have with Zion? Like, is he going to be healthy and is he going to play well and is he going to be as dominant as we think? You know, that's number one. I mean, Queen is a nice player. I feel like he's going to have a great future in the league, but I don't know what his injury is, what the severity is, how often he's going to get reps if him and Looney are out, if they're hampered, if they're, you know, not. Not able to contribute the way we're expecting. That's going to be tough for this team. A lot more will depend on Zion, a guy who we're not even sure, like, you know, he's. He's lost the weight, he's come in, we think in a position to succeed and do well this year. But that'll be a lot of pressure on him. And those tires have worn out quickly in the past, so. A little bit concerned as you are.
- [24:00]
A
Yeah. That I talked about the Pelicans last week on my pod and then on Bill's. We did, I think we all went over on 32 and. Or 30 and a half. It was some, like, crazy low number. And one of my concerns about. About, aside from the health thing with ZION, is because McCollum's gone pool. I don't think is a. Is a sort of traditional point guard. Let's say Murray's hurt for some, maybe all. Maybe most of the season. They're going to need point Zion more than they've ever needed. Ingram's gone, like point Zion has to be the focal point of the offense and that's just a lot. It's a lot on him to handle the ball so much more than he's ever had to do it before. What does that do to his body? I don't know. But this.
- [24:48]
B
Potentially quarterbacking the back line and protecting the rim a little bit more. But those guys are injured, so, yeah, it could be a lot. And, you know, they luckily have a couple big long wings who can defend a little bit, but overall, there's going to be challenges in that clubhouse as well.
- [25:02]
A
All right, Pelicans fans, if you want more last. Last Thursday's episode of Zach Low show had plenty on the Pelicans. I wanted to ask you this in part because you are the host of the Mind the game podcast with LeBron James, which came. Did he come back last week or did the trailer just drop last. No Cooper Flag episode. That's right. Dropped last week, right?
- [25:21]
B
No. Well, we might have mentioned Cooper Flag, but no, it's a back. It was a more Lakers centric first episode.
- [25:29]
A
Have you ever had sciatica before? And I asked because you had back injuries and you had nerve issues in your legs, have you ever actually had sciatica?
- [25:37]
B
Yeah, not sciatica, but similar nerve issues. Retired with nerve issues at the end of my career. That was. That was tough. I mean, I remember driving the staples when I was in the Lakers, like bridging with my ass off my seat because it hurt so bad or couldn't put my knee against the door of the console because the nerve was so inflamed. But those were some tough memories. But I haven't had sciatica. LeBron is physically much more capable than I am. I think that he'll bounce back here and he'll be able to have a good and robust season. But even if he didn't have sciatica, like, LeBron doesn't need to play 82 games. LeBron doesn't need to be flying day one. I don't mind this for the Lakers at all.
- [26:22]
A
Yeah, I said that last week. As long as it's not a longer than expected absence. And I know Shams tweeted or reported something like mid November, so we're talking about 15 games. This is why you get Luca. I don't really think it affects the bottom line. I have seen just. I've read and saw a lot of. Of people with medical backgrounds or people who talk to people with medical backgrounds being like, sciatica. It could be, you know, it could linger for so long, you don't cure it. It could be a disaster. I'm like, I don't sense a lot of anxiety from the lakers or from LeBron's camp that this is going to be. To your point about his physical, just freakishness that this is going to really hamper him. I guess you can't know. But I, I have not sensed that at all from, from anybody. I don't know if you have.
- [27:03]
B
No, I don't think so. And, you know, the amount of, I mean, look, he can't play forever, but the amount of hours and investment and years and the routine and the discipline he has, I think it puts him instead not only to limit what this is at this stage, but also how he's going to get over it and overcome it. Like, we're not talking about a guy who has a problem being dedicated. So when they ask him, you know, here's a course of rehab that we're going to have to do. Here's the exercise you're going to have, the time you're going to spend. He's already spending that time doing this stuff anyways. He's just going to have to tweak it to address the sciatica. And I'm sure, sure LeBron will knock this out of the park as well.
- [27:39]
A
The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by FanDuel. The NBA season is coming and FanDuel is the place to let you play your game. They have everything you need to get ready for the season with tons of cool bets like Season Leaders, player specials, win totals, exact team outcomes, and so much more. And even better, you can parlay your favorite bets together for an even bigger payout. So take a flyer on the MVP race, crown your champion in October or parlay or playoff dark horses. Just visit fanduel.com LOW My last name L O W E today and start planning your Future bets now. FanDuel play your game must be 20 or over in President select states or 18 and over in President DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem? Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut. This episode is brought to you by Scout Motors. Everyone loves a good comeback story like when Michael Jordan broke his, then returned that same season and set a new record for most points scored in a postseason game. Another comeback that's just as exciting. The Scout Traveler and Scout Terra are returning. New and improved with four wheel drive and a projected 1000 pound feet of torque. Join the waitlist@scoutmotors.com Concept vehicles not available for sale. Features and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the waitlist is not guaranteed to purchase. Visit scoutmotors.com for details. All right, now to the main event you're an analyst, you have to make all kinds of predictions. You have to go out on limbs. People are going to make fun of you when you're wrong. It's going to be a great time. We're going to pick awards for the upcoming season. I've already picked some, but I'll reiterate my picks. Some I have not picked. Let's start with one that may be boring. Maybe not boring. Rookie of the Year.
- [29:24]
B
It's just hard not to pick Cooper Flag. I mean, he's just. Just NBA, right? I mean, he should be a freshman in college, I think right now, and he's NBA ready. He looks like a man out there. He looks more skilled in this environment than maybe even in college. I just can't see how it's not him. You know, I've been really impressed in limited minutes with Harper, but I just. And others. But I just can't see how anyone, especially if he's going to play what I think is impactful, efficient basketball on a winning team in a tough Western Conference. I think it's Cooper flexible.
- [29:57]
A
Flag. Yeah. I just don't even know. It's going to be similar with Defensive Player of the Year. If you're not allowed to take Cooper Flag, who would you take? I guess I would take Harper almost by default. Edgecomb could put up some numbers. Ace Bailey is going to put up some numbers. But for. For a terrible team, I don't know the degree to which he'll get penalized for that. Same with Trey Johnson, who I really like. I don't even know who else I'd pick. It's Cooper Flag and I would be. Be. It's going to take an injury for that not to be the case. Similarly, Defensive Player of the Year, Steve Nash's preseason defensive Player of the Year.
- [30:32]
B
I'm going to say Amen Thompson.
- [30:35]
A
I love it. This is great.
- [30:38]
B
I just think his motor, his versatility, athleticism, ime is going to push that team to defend as he always does. I think he's going to be needed even more this year to defend, and I think it's going to be highlighted. And so he's also going to mature a touch. Been around the block a couple times now. He can take another step defensively, I think, with his IQ and his versatility. So that's my pick.
- [31:03]
A
I thought I was going to have to reframe the question to be if you're not allowed to pick Victor Wembanyama, who are you picking? You're not picking Victor Wembanyama.
- [31:14]
B
Yeah, you know, obviously he's going to be the best defensive player in the league for many, many years. I want to see. You know, I think at this stage he's going to probably average four blocks a game. He's going to be so dominant that end. But I think there's something to a team that's a little ahead at this point. And by the way, who knows, the spurs may surprise us and may take a big leap before our eyes, but a team that's more like fighting for top four in the West, a player that's guarding multiple positions, taking on the toughest assignment every now, I think Victor is going to be the best defender because of his length and his size. But I think Amen's going to be spotlighted defensively. So it's slightly different, right? I think Victor is going to control the pain, he's going to make lots of blocks and therefore he might deserve defensive player of the year. But I think Amen Thompson being that guy that's going to guard one through five at different stages, he's going to have to cover the best player at the end of games. He's going to do all the things that make him so versatile and highlight his athleticism. And maybe he's the last defensive player of the year for the next 10 years. Not named Victor Wembanyama.
- [32:13]
A
I haven't picked this award yet. My pick, to the surprise of no one, is Victor Wembanyama. Just the dude just blots out the sun. There's just no airspace, there's no light. He smothers the whole court. If he gets to 65 games, I just would be. I just. I mean he's just the best defense player in the league. Now I did ask myself the same question I was going to ask you, if not him, then who? And my answer was also Amen Thompson by a hair over Evan Mobley. Bam. Out of bio. Chet Holmgren is an interesting candidate if he gets to 65 games. Gobert and Draymond are always here. Zubots was here last year. Dyson, Daniels, Dort. There's like a ton of really good defensive players and you would normally default to a big guy. This is a big guy's award for the most part. I just think Amen Thompson is such a singularly dominant defensive player in can. He can protect the rim like a big guy and guard little guys and he's just everywhere all the time. Did I agree with you? Just as an all court menace, I think he's the best non wemby bet I don't have it looked at the odds. I don't know if he's the best non Wemby bet, like, actually, but he would be my. If not Wemby, then who pick? I just. He and his brother are people, NBA players who are top, top 000001% athletes talk about their athleticism with awe. Like, that's how dominant these guys are as athletes. And they both play the right way. Like, they play unselfishly, they play hard. I love watching Ahmed Thompson play.
- [33:49]
B
I agreed. And I also. Look, I, I. You said it, not me. I was reluctant to say the 65 game. If there's one B play enough games. You know, the spurs traditionally have just been very strategic. So if they're not all of a sudden pushing boundaries and looking like they could be a top four or five team in the west, you know, you could see them just being strategic, just being careful with one on this plan. So that was a part of the reason I also had Thompson. But you're right, Thompson is just. I mean, he's got all the tools, like physically out of this world in so many capacities. You know, lateral movement, physicality, vertical strength, XL D cells, like, all the things that you'd want in an athlete. It's not just like linear or vertical. He's got like, literally the complete package physically. I also think he's, he's combative, he's competitive, he wants to learn, he's coachable. He can be pushed. You know, Ime's going to push and he will be pushed. You know, he's going to, he's not going to challenge. Ime's pushing. He's going to be like, oh, I can take another step. I'll take another step. I didn't realize this scenario. If I do this, I can be that guy as well. I think that's the type of makeup of both brothers Thompson. So, yeah, I agree with you. I think he's just a special, special talent. And while Wemby and the spurs are continuing on this road, that would be my only reservation, is that at the end of the year, Wemby plays 60 games.
- [35:02]
A
Okay, let's go to the headline. So those are the two I had not picked yet that we just did. I have already picked my MVP prediction. Who is your predicted most valuable player?
- [35:13]
B
Well, my heart, my heart's with Shay being my Canadian Bren and just being incredibly proud and admiring so much, but I think it's Joker, you know, like the, I mean, for him not to get it two years in a Row. Unless something strange happens to him or their team this year. I mean he's, well, I mean he's on. Would anyone doubt if he averages another triple double if he's, you know, his shooting stats are off the charts. You know, he's passes the ball as well as anyone who's almost ever played the game. I mean, where do we go from here? He's bigger, he's stronger, he's more skilled, he's more accurate and he's got the best vision in the league. How do you not win MVP after not winning it last year? So I'd love to see him with a chip on his shoulder this year too. You know, he's kind of a super competitor, but also kind of I just do my thing guy. But I wouldn't mind it if there was a little bit of piss and vinegar in the Joker this year just for all of our entertainment.
- [36:08]
A
I mean the Morris brothers are certainly familiar with that side of Nicole.
- [36:11]
B
Yeah, we know, we know what's in there, especially in a playoff scenario in the regular season. We'll see.
- [36:17]
A
I also picked Joker. It just says a lot that it took a season so dominant from Shea that it inspired a million. Is this the greatest season from a guard since Michael Jordan columns just to be neck and neck in most statistics advanced and otherwise with Nikola Jokic, what he does every year. And Bill and I had this thing on his pod where like what if he wins another title? Where does that place him historically? Is he a top 10 all time player? I guess people don't want to hear this. Statistically he is going to be one of the three or four greatest statistical players of all time. That's not the whole game because defense is part of the game too. And it's not tracked as well. Well statistically. But the numbers this guy puts every year are like, I don't even. They're just gargantuan. And if he's a four time MVP and he wins another title and he's a two time MVP of the finals, he's going to be a top 10 all time player. Like I grew up in the 80s with Bird and magic, like they, they defined my early basketball fandom. He's on par with those guys if he gets another title. If he doesn't, it becomes an interesting discussion. But he's my pick. Which one do you want to do next? We got coach of the year most improved player and six man of the year.
- [37:35]
B
Most improved. I'm a homer. I'm going to go with the Canadian Matheran. I Just think there's so many people out there that could take a leap, but there's opportunity there. They're going to need scoring. They're going to need another punch from someone in that lineup. The way they play, picking up full court, being physical, playing with so much speed and action in the half court, let alone the full court. You know, I think there's an opportunity then for there for him to take a big leap. I mean, we know he's capable. I think refinement is important for him. The opportunities will be there. So I'm a bit of a homer there. Maybe didn't give some people their due, but I think he's in a nice position, at least to be it.
- [38:13]
A
He's one of the odds on favorites. I picked a Sar Thompson, the quote other Thompson twin. Amen is actually the odds on favorite. Favorite.
- [38:22]
C
Okay.
- [38:23]
B
I, I actually like that pick as well. I, I have no problem with any of those guys.
- [38:26]
A
Yeah. I just think Asar is gonna have the where did he come from factor more than Amen because he missed, he missed like 20, 30 games last season, whatever it was with coming back from the blood clot and the Pistons were under the radar until the playoffs and they're not going to be under the radar anymore. He's going to play a bigger role, maybe.
- [38:46]
B
I think that, I think that's key, the bigger role. You know, I think they, hey, they're going to have to improve within this year. I mean, Ivy Duran, but I think Thompson as well is going to have the opportunity, a little bit like Matheran, but with a different backdrop, to have more of an opportunity to grow and get better.
- [39:02]
A
Speaking of Canada, a little side sidebar here for you. Are you still involved in Canada basketball anymore or no? I don't think so. Right.
- [39:08]
B
No. My old teammate Rowan Barrett runs the program. I'm just a fan.
- [39:14]
A
I was out, out to dinner in Los Angeles last week with someone, I'll just say, in the international basketball scene, and we were reminiscing about the 2024 Olympics and looking ahead to the 2028 Olympics. This person made a prediction for me and he's not, not Canadian, not American, because in my head I'm thinking USA without some of the old guys that are going to graduate. Probably France, obviously rising. But the best young player in the world, Serbia, always around, has Jokic, and Canada has largely sort of disappointed in a lot of the highest leverage international competitions, minus when they came third in the World Cup a couple years ago. This guy just flat out said Canada is going to be my pick to win the gold medal. Have we. Have he. And he went through the roster with me and you got like Edie's going to be a part of the team. There's a couple other big guys that are coming up and you got all the guards like Jamal Murray might still be a part of it and can't be like that's, it's not a bad. It's a, it's kind of a cool pick. It wouldn't, it wouldn't be that shocking. Right. Like we can't. Like that last Olympics was supposed to be the one didn't get out of the quarterfinals. Fine. It happens. Field is kind of stacked like you're still looking, looking up, right?
- [40:27]
B
Yeah, for sure. I mean it's, it's. Honestly Zach, it's incredible for me as a guy who came in the league and there was Bill Weddington who went to high school in New York, but it's, I believe roots are in Montreal and it. Rick Fox who was born in Toronto. I moved to the bahamas in like 14 days. So that was it for Canada. Now there's like 24 guys on NBA rosters. The MVP of the league, you know, really, really good players. I think for Canada, frankly the third in the World cup was great. Was a great result for them really. It was the first time in an international tournament together. So. And I can speak from experience and losing in the quarterfinals to France. Sometimes like when you get to the quarterfinals, you're playing France on their home floor. It's a one off day for a team that was really just too small. Their room for error was really just so tight. I think they got bullied a little bit by Yabacelli on the day and weren't quite themselves, weren't quite sharp. Not that they didn't have the heart desire. They just didn't play at their best Basketball and you're out and that's international basketball. So you know, that was their kind of one slip up. They won their group. They were three and oh, I believe so. You know, one loss in two international tournaments that kind of sent you backwards I think is completely a part of building scars growing when a group's been together that, that. What should I say? Scarcely. But yeah. I mean I think the interior play is going to be the big indicator of where Canada goes. You know, who is going to be there to have to guard the Wemby's of the world, the Jokic's of the world, whoever the US trots out there. I mean that's going to be the Achilles heel because I think on the perimeter they're going to be fantastic. I think Zach Edie will be a big help, but I think they're going to need a couple more guys in there as well to be able to bang. Because the Yabaselli's, we had guys his height. We didn't have guys that could contain him or the other power forward whose name I forget. It wasn't so much. It wasn't the Wembys, it was those guys going to the post and beating our guys up. And we didn't shoot the ball well enough. We didn't cause enough turnovers on the day to beat him. But I think Canada is a very interesting pick.
- [42:24]
A
Well, that's. I mean, that's the. It's also not just one win, one loss and you're out at that stage. It's also, you win your group, you do everything right and you kind of get unlucky. That France has a bad group stage and gets drawn to you in the quarterfinals as one of the first is a team that ends up winning silver. Okay, coach of the year, Steve Nash award. You know something about, you know something about a couple of these awards, actually.
- [42:45]
B
Quinn Snyder, we agree, we're in.
- [42:47]
A
We're in agreement. So you go make. You. You make the. I've already made my case, you make yours.
- [42:51]
B
Well, obviously, we all know he's a terrific coach. I think he's creative. I think he's. And they have put together a very interesting roster. I think they put length around Trey, Versatility. I think they've. I think they put enough shooting. I think Canard was a great pickup. I think some of these developing wings can shoot it just well enough and hopefully shoot it a little better going forward. I think the big, the big one here is going to be. Is going to be the big fella. If he's able to play and stretch the floor and defend and help them be that versatile five that can pull people away from the basket. Can be a little bit of a partner, an outlet for Trey, but also open the floor up for Trey. You know, I'm interested. I also think, you know, with Johnson being a playmaker, Reece Sashay being able to play a little bit and make plays for others, I think it's interesting to see like their second unit, their second unit could be killer. So I think with Quinn, the roster, his creativity, I think he's an obsessive coach. He's going to put a lot, a lot of thought into what's the best way for this team. To play. The only thing is that it's a little bit all brand new, you know, adding these new pieces and how quickly can they get to a place where they take that next step? And then the other part is just Trey, Trey being a leader. Trey really caring about the health of the whole group. Him really taking that role of, you know, wanting to see everyone thrive and succeed and make everyone better. Because, I mean, there's no question his skills are outstanding.
- [44:21]
A
I've talked a lot about the Hawks. Hawks. I've been hurt by the Hawks before. I might be too high on the Hawks. It's possible. I just really like their team. I have them penciled in fourth in the east regular season standings, behind in somewhere. Well behind Cleveland and New York and somewhere. I don't know. And then Orlando. I think Orlando will win more regular season games than the Hawks. The Hawks might have a higher ceiling even in the playoffs than Orlando just because of the potential explosiveness they have on offense. Two reasons for me to be a little trepidatious other than my past, my soul being scarred by past Hawks disappointments. Porzingis is not a bonus for them. He's essential for them. Because you mentioned the shooting issues of the Dyson Risso, Jalen Johnson trio who are all gonna have to play a ton of minutes, including to get together various combinations of two or three of those guys don't work without Porzingis playing heavy minutes or playing heavy games and decent minutes. And then the depth beyond the eighth guy. Like you, I love Alexander Walker. I love a Kong Wu. I canard's fine. Like the depth. I like Kre even. But like, once you get down to like the break in case of emergency group, I get a little nervous. And that makes me what does one injury do for this team? But I think, I think if they are semi, if they're healthy in the playoffs, I think they have a high enough ceiling to scare one of the. One of the favorites in the East. And one of those two teams takes an injury or just doesn't play very well. I think this team could be really good. So Quinn's my pick too.
- [45:58]
B
I agree. I, you know, the depth thing, I don't think the depth's a problem in the playoffs necessarily for them. You know, those eight, eight and a half, nine guys that can play, it's getting through the regular season. Like, can they. If, if one of their top eight guys gets hurt, what does it look like adding another guy or two to the rotation? And can they manage that? You know, it seems like injuries are inevitable nowadays. It's just you don't want the bad ones. You want the two and three week ones, not the two or three month ones. And if they have the two or three month type, you know, that can be problematic, I think. And then like we both said, the shooting, you know, how much do we trust the shooting? How many more plays and shots can those guys make to kind of make space for Trey and Trey makes space for them. And you're right, Porzingis is a linchman for all that stuff because he just gives you that spacing and versatility.
- [46:41]
A
I agree on the playoffs, obviously rotation shortened, right. If you pencil in Canard as the eighth guy, which maybe, maybe someone surpasses him, maybe Mo Gay finally lives up to the potential that the Hawks seem to see in him. I like Krechi. Asa Newell is an interesting rookie. I don't know how ready he's going to be. We'll see. The thing about Canard is he always seems to fall out of the rotation wherever he is and he's penciled in as not the 10th guy in the my Hawks rotation. He's the 8th guy. He cannot fall out of the rotation. But everywhere he goes he becomes a fringe rotation player and that can't happen again with the way he shoots. Okay, six man of the year.
- [47:21]
B
Assuming Knicks go double big. I kind of want to give Josh Hart some love. I don't want to give Josh Hart some love. I just love the battle in him, the presence. And I feel like the Knicks have a chance to contend for the top spot in the East. A very good chance. And if they are and he's in the media capital of the world and he's bringing that energy, combativeness, transition basketball, offensive rebounds, you know, physicality, I, I kind of like him there. I, I, I'm going to go.
- [47:50]
A
Josh Hart, it's a great pick. Was one of my, one of my favorites. Nikais Duncan picked him last, last week and I did this segment. I picked Onyeka Kongu just to triple down on my Hawks. My cacaoing for the Hawks and I won't make the case again, but I think Josh Hart's a great pick.
- [48:07]
B
That brings us speaking of a con with Jesus, do you see them? We're in this big, big trend of double bigs. Do you see him and Porzingis playing a bunch together?
- [48:14]
A
I think they will, I think for absolutely that that one is the one that's more locked in to me than like Valentunas at Jokic, which is a preseason thing. We Might see that for snippets. I don't know that it's going to be a permanent thing. The Rockets won where they just beat the out of you with Shangu in it at Adams and one and maybe Capella comes in there is a permanent. Like what are some other ones that we're going to see?
- [48:34]
B
Well, do you consider the Thunder double big lineup?
- [48:38]
A
Oh, yeah, yeah.
- [48:39]
B
I mean that is. Chad is interesting because he could almost think of him as a perimeter but he blocked so many shots. I'd love to see that. Double lineup is great. Dallas, gosh. Trying to think. I thought of a few others the other day. They're not rolling off the tongue, but I think there's more than we think.
- [48:55]
A
Think what? Cleveland, obviously Mobley Allen is another high profile. When the Sixers are talking about playing Embiid and Adam Bona together, I mean. Okay, we'll see.
- [49:05]
B
Please, please play.
- [49:08]
A
Okay. I admire the.
- [49:11]
B
You brought it up. You, you said they're gonna go.
- [49:12]
A
I did, I did. He look, he's, it looks like he's on track to play maybe in the season opener according to Nick Nurse, which is better than I ever would have expected and so I hope that keeps up. The Dallas one is, is just. You mentioned Cooper Flag being productive on a winning team. I actually went under on Dallas at 40 and a half. Not, not, not dramatically so. I think they're an injury risk. They're a. If the season goes sideways, do we, do we want to lean into our pick risk? But more than anything else, like AD is really a four. Like that's really what I just don't, I mean you coached lineup.
- [49:51]
B
I think 80 is a five for me. I, I, that's just the way it is. If you're going to play AD, I'm one of those bigs. AD's got to shoot some threes. I don't know how comfortable we are that if he's out there, why wouldn't you want him either being a hub or being the roller, being the, you know, a guy that can be the center point. So they're big lineup. They're big in general. They're big lineup. I'm not like not as crazy about, to be honest with you, because it gets AD out of the five position where I think he's fantastic both ways. Ways.
- [50:21]
A
Look, it has benefits, obviously. They're going to be huge defensively. They're going to own the glass potentially. They get to sort of save him some wear and tear which they, I mean his, his missed games is one of the biggest reasons I took the under on them again, don't feel strong. I kind of like the team. It's just, I, if that's a number, that's a number. I just feel like we're going to see a lot like flag and A.D. oh, they're going to run two man game together. It's going to be interesting. I'm like, people are just going to switch that. It's going to be like a power forward and a power forward, it's going to be switched. I just feel like there's going to be more possessions than people think where AD standing 19ft from the rim, just sort of not doing much and I just, I don't love it.
- [50:59]
B
And, and the perfect antidote for some of these slightly clunky big lineups for them is Kyrie Irving. You know, someone that can slither in any crack, can shoot, create shots wherever he wants. They can ask the defense questions of their spacing. Even with all these guys that maybe you're not sure you want, you have to stay home on. So until he comes back, you know, I, that will be difficult to kind of like refine those lineups to really like get them to feel smooth and understand what, how does this make sense? So, you know, I, I like the roster, I like their team. I think Jason does a great job. I, I just think some of those lineups will be trickier in, in reality than they are on paper.
- [51:33]
A
Another reason I took under 40 and a half, which is one of my more controversial picks. Between Bill and me and House, I was the only under. You want me to give you some other only ones that I was like, where I stood out. Out?
- [51:43]
B
Yeah.
- [51:44]
A
Lakers over 47 and a half. I was the only one over. Only one over.
- [51:50]
B
I mean, look, I, I think they got better. I mean, I love to see what, what Marcus Smart and Laravia bring to the team. But Ayton, I mean, he's gotta have a better year. You know, we know he can put up numbers, but is he really going to roll? Like, that's my big question there. Is he really going to roll to the basket? Because it doesn't really help the Lakers or Luka help the Lakers if he wants to pop or if he wants to slow down, you know, in the short role and become a playmaker. Like they really need him to want to be a little more dynamic, get in and out, get above the rim, be a vertical threat, just to draw the defense to ask questions so that Luka can do what he does and make the rest of that team better because they're going to have problems defensively. I think that's, you know, they just don't have like elite defenders at this stage. They have positional size. But for them, it's going to be so important for him to make sure that offense hums, make sure he's diving, letting Luka be at his best. Otherwise, you know, that, that delta between offense and defense will become really problematic.
- [52:46]
A
I think he's going to roll. My concern is what you just said is what happens after he gets the ball because is he going to finish?
- [52:55]
B
Because if you don't roll hard, if you're not willing to be dynamic and you're not a threat at the rim now people can play in between, they can stun and get back. Now he's the playmaker. You want Luka to be the playmaker. If he's rolling and he's the high threat on the rim now Luka's the playmaker, he's the decision maker. So I think like that to me is the difference. I think that's what you're saying. But for me to jump in rolling. Yeah. And say it's like it's not rolling, it's rolling hard. To be a vertical thread at the rim and make the corner come in, make the low man be a small, get them in rotations. If he's in the middle, they can stun, they can get back, and they'll be quite happy for him to be the playmaker. And the ball's out of Luka's hand and Luca's standing next to him at 17ft going, I can't really get it back here. And so what are we doing?
- [53:35]
A
It's going to annoy everybody. But even when he rolls hard, my. The issue with him sometimes is his instinct is almost to spin away from the basket. When he's at the basket, it's like, big fellow, just go up. You're right there. It's why he never gets to the foul line. It's something about him. It's like the half court line has some gravitational pull on him. I was the only over on Orlando. Fifty and a half. It's a big number. I went over on that.
- [54:01]
B
I like Orlando a lot. I might. The big question for me there, obviously we've talked about shooting with them for a while now. I think they have some shooting. I think some of those guys will shoot better. Obviously Bain makes a difference. How are Bain, how are the big three, for them going to play in actions together? I worry a little bit that against Your term. My turn. I worry that if you put Franz and Paolo in action, they're going to take the two best defenders. They're going to switch a lot of it. I worry it's going to get stagnant. I think I'd like to play a little faster than they're on the slowest teams, if not the slowest team in the league last year. If they're going to play faster, that's one antidote. But if they're going to also get those three in actions where they can all be a threat to bring the third best defender, similar to the Lakers when. When Austin Reeves gets in the action. Now you've got the third best defender on the floor. Having to, you know, account for LeBron and Luca as well, that I think is a similar position. They need to really exploit and find ways for those three to make music together or else I think they'll find some issues offensively.
- [55:00]
A
All right, let's do it. NBA Finals and championship predictions. I haven't done this yet. Do you want me to go first or do you want you. Do you want to go first?
- [55:11]
B
I'll go first. I'm going to still give OKC the edge in the West. I know they went to seven games with a limited depth and injured Aaron Gordon for one Nuggets team. I love what the Nuggets have done. I'm just going to default to the Thunder because they're the winners, they're the champs. They all conceivably should get better. They should have a year more experience. They should have a year more of road road scars and all those experience. You know, they didn't play great the entire playoffs. They had bad games in every round almost. I think those game. Jalen Williams was injured, which we didn't realize the severity still had won a historic game in the Finals. I think that they should be better this year. Denver should also be better and they have probably the best player in the world. So I can see Denver winning. I'm going to give the edge right now to okc. They're young, they've played together now they should all continue to improve. Would I be surprised if Denver wins? No. But the edge is going to okc. The East. I'm having a hard time. I'm having a really hard time. I worry a little bit about the Knicks clunkiness. As far as the Mitchell Robinson. What's the second unit? Is the first unit going to hum with Mitchell Robinson out there? If he's not on the floor? I really like. Yeah. Vaselli but he's going to have to be a monster next to Cat in some of these lineups because defensively that's going to be difficult for them Knicks. So I think the Knicks have some, have a nice bench, they've got some guys who can play coming in this year and adding to the team. What are their lineups going to look like? Like, how are they going to trot out teams out there that can either defend enough or score enough? So I'm giving you the around the neighborhood answer here, but Cleveland, similar in a different way. Well, coach, love the way they play, love their pieces. How do they fit? Am I overreacting a little bit with the injuries last year, or are there going to be real difficulties kind of with the pieces in their fit? You know, is the backcourt right? Is the front court right? You know, how does the depth play? How well do they shoot the ball down the stretch in meaningful moments? So, you know, I like them, but I think there's a lot for them to prove this year as far as how that roster fits together. You know, then there's some of these teams that are, you know, for me could be surprises like you said, Atlanta, Orlando, Detroit, Milwaukee. You still got Giannis in shooting. I don't know how, how I feel about their depth, but I, who knows, maybe Turner Giannis and Turner Giannis and shooting is a killer lineup this year. So in the East, I'm having a hard time. I'm going to give the Knicks the nod. I'm going to give the Knicks the nod, even though I feel like I have the most questions with them. I'm just a big Jalen Brunson supporter. I'd love to see what Mike Brown does with a little bit egalitarian offense or equal opportunity offense that maybe takes a little pressure off him, allows him to probably get the same numbers but with less wear and tear, highlights a few more of those players that maybe elevate, maybe OG Obviously Bridges Cat can be a hub at times. Can they just be terrific offensively by opening it up a little bit? But defensively that is a concern. So I'm going to give them the nod. But I honestly have a really hard time picking the East.
- [58:37]
A
Okay, my official pick for the NBA Finals and the NBA championship in 2025, 2026, I am picking the Oklahoma City Thunder to beat the New York Knicks in the NBA Finals. So we have the same Finals.
- [58:52]
B
I think the winner, but I hope it goes without saying, I think OKCs in the west is going to win the NBA title this year.
- [58:57]
A
Well, how about this? If, if all things healthy and equal, which is never the case, is okc, Denver, the actual NBA Finals to you, if that's the west finals, 1,000%.
- [59:10]
B
I mean 1,000%. You know, two most, you know, two best players, two most impactful players. You know, the depth that Denver added makes them I think 1A 1B favorite in the league and OKC. I give them a nod just because they, they've done it and they will only get better this year if their injury free.
- [59:32]
A
All right. Can I make the case for the Knicks?
- [59:34]
B
Please do.
- [59:37]
A
It's. It's the best. It's everyone in the east has some imperfections that make me nervous. For the Knicks, it's the degree to which they're relying on Mitchell Robinson to be healthy and the way that teams can pick at the Brunson cat pairing on defense with Cleveland. It's. They haven't really had a clean and convincing playoff run yet. They've had their own injury issues that are still ongoing with Garland and Estrus and I sneakily. I'm not sure what I'm getting out of their bench in the playoffs. Lonzo, we'll see. Sam Merrill, Dean, Wade, maybe Jalen Tyson can emerge. I like it's not as rock solid as it appeared to be last year and I just don't. I don't look at Cleveland or Orlando or Atlanta as complete enough or specifically able to threaten the Brunson Towns pairing on defense enough for me to not pick the Knicks. For that reason. I think the Knicks can scheme around it against all of these teams just enough to get by. And I just really like their team. I like their starting five. I like their bench. I think they did a nice job filling out the bench. And there's just something about this group that, having failed, come up short last year. A year of cat under their belt, a year of cohesion, a year of like, you know, ups and downs together where it was sometimes tense. There's a coaching change. How's the locker room? This and that. They, they never were afraid of the biggest moments. They never were afraid of the biggest stages. There's just something about their moxie that I kind of like and I trust the most. All of that stuff said someone beyond my top six in the east would be this order if I had to predict a regular season. These are the six teams who make the playoffs without the plan. 1. Cleveland. 2. New York. 3. Orlando. 4. Atlanta. 5. Detroit. 6. Milwaukee. Someone in that group, probably one of Orlando in Atlanta, is going to challenge the Knicks in the Cavs in the playoffs and emerges like an actual, like, oh my God, are these guys going to make the final finals? Oklahoma City, Denver took him to seven last year with Michael Porter Jr. Having one arm and Aaron Gordon having one leg by the end. That's discouraging for if you're picking the Thunder to break the repeat. The no repeat streak. But I'm with you. Like, I, I mean there's got to be something to be said for the pressure of being there for the first time and trying to win a title for the first time, being over that combined with Chet being hopefully healthier than he was last year. Another year under his belt. Another year for everybody. Ink the half court offense looks a little less nervous and a little less clunky in the biggest moments. And that to me was the reason you said they had sort of laid some eggs here or there in the playoffs. Didn't look super dominant all the time. Time. That's. That's what it came down to. I think they'll look better that way. And I just, I like the way the Homegren Hartenstein pairing matches up against Denver. There's no answer for Jokic, but I liked, I like the answers they have available. And they're just so young and so healthy and they strike me. I said this on Bill's pod. I mean, you've. You've been on a bunch of great teams. You can maybe speak to this, this idea that they're like a championship team, will coast the next year or just sort of. They strike me as the opposite. Like, they strike me as like, we are out. Oh, we have the target on our back.
- [63:11]
C
Good.
- [63:11]
A
We want to kick your ass every single game. They're over. Under 62 and a half. I took the over without even blinking. I think it's more likely they win 70 games than go under 62 and a half. I think they're going to have an absolutely dominant season.
- [63:27]
B
I mean, relatively egoless. Love playing together. Name a player on their team you don't think has a chance to get better. So still, you know, they went through some of those rough nights, still managed to get through tough series, tough moments. They have the scars now. They have the. You know, there's always that collective experiences that's a big part of this. You know, I think Yoker Joker can make up for a lot of that in Denver's case. You got some new guys in their team. Bruce Brown, granted, already was there with them new guys. You want to look around the room in the playoffs and be able to say when we're on the floor in a tough moment and they say, I know he's going to show up the next five minutes. I know we've been here before. We can. When you're. When it's your first time, that is something that counts and is difficult to overcome. They've now got that. They've done that. They're improving. They're an otherworldly defensive team that is an anecdote to Joker in a certain way because they can do it in different ways. They can defend you at all four corners. Not necessarily have to be like, oh, my God, this hub is going to destroy us. Well, we can also pick you up full court. We can make it more difficult for.
- [64:35]
A
We could put Caruso on Jokic for eight minutes and somehow get away with it. Right.
- [64:40]
B
You know, just incredible mobility and speed defensively. And then you got the double big. That just gives them some size. So there. It's hard not to, you know, to think they're going to improve. And I think, I think the under there would be only because of injury. You know, I know like Shay missed time. J Dub missed time last year, Chapman's time last year. They still won a million games. So I, I just, I think you're right there. I. You know, there is something the, the world would have to turn upside down for them not to be a mid-60s to high-60s team this year. And I just think they've got the playoff scars now and a championship under their belt.
- [65:17]
A
If J Dub were starting the season healthy and I don't think he's going to miss a lot of time as he recovers from this wrist surgery, I would, I would say they're going to win 70 games. Maybe. I'll just say it anyway for fun, I think. Like, how many. How many games are they not going to be favored in. In the season?
- [65:35]
B
Yeah.
- [65:36]
A
At Denver, that's two games or one. I can't. No two games at Cleveland. Are they favored in every other game? Back to backs at New York or something like back to back against a top eight team? I. I don't know.
- [65:54]
B
I mean, I think they're favored in some of those, you know, I mean, and then there's the other part of it. There's the presti. Cultural part of it where like, yeah, they not doing media. You know what I mean? Like, they are in the lab, they are working, they're quiet. They're not out there doing the extracurriculars. That's a pretty focused machine that's moving down the track daily. So the typical concern of who gets complacent or who takes their foot off the gas isn't a concern I have for that group. Extremely well coached, have a great style of play, like it's pretty cemented and you know that's the kiss of death. And often, often. But I've never been more certain that A team's a mid 60 win team or at least going to match what they did last year. Unless there's catastrophic injuries.
- [66:44]
A
Yeah, I said the same thing last year going into the season. Any other outcome in the regular season, season, then them being the number one seed in the west would be shocking to a level we have not seen since. I mean even the Durant warriors were you were consultant on were not the number one seed every year that they were together in their own conference like it. But this team just feels like they're going to be 10 games better than everyone else in the regular season. Now the playoffs, you face the big fella in Denver in the playoffs with a real team, it ain't gonna. It ain't gonna be a five game walk, walk over like. Denver could absolutely win that series and win the championship, but I'm picking the Thunder. Is there anything we did not get to that you wanted to get to? I pitched you a bunch of theoretical, fun questions that we may not have time to get to, but if you wanted to take one of them, you could. I don't know. What. Is there anything we didn't get to?
- [67:31]
B
No. Is there anything else you want to. You want to hit?
- [67:33]
A
No. You got a whole. We got a whole season to listen to you talk about the NBA. Are you, are you excited?
- [67:38]
B
I am excited. You know, at first I was a little apprehensive, like, you know, how can I be any good at this? You know, do I. Putting yourself out there every week and all those things that come along with it. Honestly, the crew at prime is unbelievable. All the people that work there are so easy to work with, fun to work with, organized, have a development mindset, looking forward to building this kind of startup, so to speak, like they did Thursday Night Football. And then you add to it how much fun it is to sit with Taylor and Dirk and Blake, ud, you know, Rudy Gaine, John Walter there. I'm gonna do some games. I get to do my first two games in the new year with Iron Eagle and Stan Van Gundy, be the third. You know, I'll just be sitting there chuckling to myself the whole time, pinch myself to two of the greats and so for me, like to challenge myself, push myself, be around the game, talk hoops with people, have some fun, have a few laughs, but also, you know, just, just be able to watch this beautiful game, this sport and this league that's I think, as good as it's ever been and super excited for me.
- [68:43]
A
Who's going to be your favorite team to watch? If you did a league pass rankings like I do, league pass rankings, who'd be at the top?
- [68:52]
B
Great question. I mean, it's hard not to say anyone other than. I mean, like my brain automatically goes to Shay and Joker. Like right away I want to see like Shay's ability to just footwork, contact, accuracy, variety of shot. You know, it's ridiculous. It's deceleration, length. And then Joker is just like, I mean, what are we watching? I mean, this guy's like, it's. I don't know, like, what are. I mean, we're watching like Larry Bird and an all time great center in one body. I mean, he's, he's unbelievable. And then, you know, you go around the read like, I'm super excited to see what Orlando looks like, what Atlanta looks like. You know, Houston, you know, they're trying a new reboot to see if they can get over the hump. Always love watching Stephen Curry and the Warriors. So I could give you 100 teams. I don't necessarily have a number one, but it's going to be super fun seeing how Luka does this year with first full season with the Lakers, that partnership with AYTON, you know, LeBron being such a fascinating player to embrace and accept. Kind of a heliocentric player alongside him. The Clippers, you know, aging guys that are all incredible, seeing what they have left and what they can do to get together if they're healthy. So I didn't even mention ant. So, I mean, it's.
- [70:13]
A
You didn't mention Wembanyama either.
- [70:15]
B
Didn't mention Wemby. I mean, Wemby is like, I mean, what are we watching? It's, it's fascinating. I was watching they played Utah in the preseason, start the game with point Wemby, and it's just like, this is seventh. Whatever. I don't even know. Is he like eight feet tall yet? He's going to be eight any minute now.
- [70:30]
A
There was a headline today in the Athletic. It was like, even his coach doesn't know how tall he is. And Mike, my, my first response was, that feels like a measurable thing that you could find out. And my second response was, is he Just going to keep. Is he going to be 8ft tall? Like, is he going to be the first 8 foot NBA player? Because I'm all in for that.
- [70:50]
B
I think, I think the answer to how tall he is is tall enough. And like we know it's not necessary to measure, but I mean it's amazing. He's coming up and I don't think he's quite there yet as a ball handler, but they're setting screens for him. Pick and roll, he's drawing the defense. I think he's got to gain strength over the next two, three years where he can some of these spin move battles where he's spinning because he's not going to beat everyone off the dribble. But if he, if he can have them overreact, spin and then win that battle, I mean he's going to be on top of the rim on some of those plays, which adds a whole nother dimension. Right now he kind of just draws the crowd and is able to throw over everyone as a playmaker. But defensively, I mean, you can play anyone alongside him, you know, and I think offensively it's. Who knows, is it going to be 6 months, 18 months to where he's winning more of those kind of like physical battles, getting to use his leverage, his angles, his momentum to. Then when he spins, turns or gets to a spot, he's looking down on the rim or he's going to get to that spot a little bit like Porzingis, where he catches the ball somewhere and he just kind of dares you to leave your feet and if you don't, he just rises up and shoots over you. So there's so much in play for him offensively and obviously defensively as well. But defensively we already see it. He's going to dominate, he's going to lead the league in blocks, he's going to block more shots than some teams. Potentially so super fun. And I didn't even mention him. Zach.
- [72:07]
A
The quadruple double is coming. I have my own league pass rankings like fake formula that I use. I actually have it done and without spoiling it. You meant the warriors and the Lakers both rank much higher than I would have expected them to. And I think when you think about it, justifiably so. I mean the warriors still have one of the greatest shows in sports. There is nothing in sports. Nothing in sports. Not just basketball. Basketball, like a Steph Curry heater.
- [72:33]
B
Steph Curry heater. But also the style of play like they, they play different than everyone else with the pinch Post, mid post. Steph flying all over the place, pick the picker. And it's random, you know, it's more principled than it is calling set plays all the time. So it's beautiful to have someone else playing a slightly different style of basketball in the NBA. They've been doing it for a long time. And when Curry's the fulcrum and Draymond's a genius at kind of running that show with the ball, man, let's hope that thing rolls on for a few.
- [73:01]
A
More years and we get a full year of Jimmy there. And Draymond always brings the potential for drama on the court, fights, whatever, of some kind. And the Lakers, they always come toward the top of my rankings because they're the Lakers. They have a beautiful court. You know, the whole experience is awesome. And now they have LeBron. And I'm always like, oh, that's too high. I'm like, not that excited to watch the Lakers. This is the first year where I actually really am excited for a full season of Luka LeBron Reeves. How does this work? How does JJ make this work? I think they now are deserving of the number of TV slots they're going to get. I think this is the most excited I've been to watch the Lakers as a sort of basketball puzzle in a long time. All right, Steve Nash. Amazon Prime. Mind the game. What else? Anything else?
- [73:44]
B
Steve Nash foundation soccer tournament coming back.
- [73:48]
A
To New York this spring.
- [73:49]
B
Soccer tournament came back last year. It'll be back again. June, World cup coming up. That's what else I'm excited about.
- [73:57]
A
That's we're getting ready. Ready, baby.
- [73:59]
B
Okay, brother.
- [74:00]
A
There you go, Steve Nash. Thank you, sir. This episode is brought to you by Jack Daniels.
- [74:07]
B
Jack Daniels and music are made for each other. They share a rhythm in the craft of making something timeless while being a part of legendary nights. From backyard jams to sold out arenas, there's a song in every toast.
- [74:19]
A
Please drink responsibly.
- [74:20]
B
Responsibility.org, jack Daniels and Old no. 7 are registered trademarks. Tennant Messy Whiskey.
- [74:24]
A
40% alcohol by volume.
- [74:25]
B
Jack Daniel Distillery, Lynchburg, Tennessee.
- [74:29]
C
This episode is brought to you by State Farm.
- [74:32]
A
Listening to this podcast.
- [74:34]
C
Smart move being financially savvy. Smart move. Another smart move having State Farm help you create a competitive price when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a.
- [74:46]
B
Personal price plan like a good neighbor.
- [74:49]
C
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- [74:50]
B
Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state.
- [74:52]
C
Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.
- [74:59]
A
All right, time to welcome a special guest. This one is fun for me. Special for me. Aaron Neesmith. I remember I met you the first time in Miami when you were playing for the Celtics. And your agent, we'll just call him Mike. I don't know if he wants to get his full name shouted out, call him. Mike said, hey, come over here. Zach meets this is the guy. And then he said, this is the guy. Aaron, they keep saying the Celtics need to be playing you. And I said, yeah, I'm the original resident of Aaron Neesmith Island. Now it's popular. Condo values are skyrocketing. Aaron Neesmith. How are you, man?
- [75:28]
C
I'm doing good. Yeah. Neesmith Island's got a lot more visitors than it used to.
- [75:32]
A
Yeah, you got to kick people out. We got to have it. It's like one of those cities where they got to set set limits on the amount of cruise ships that are allowed to dock every day.
- [75:40]
C
That's a fact.
- [75:41]
A
You are just finishing up with practice with the Indiana Pacers. How hard was Rick on you today? Was it a lot of run? What kind of training camp guy is Rick Carlisle?
- [75:51]
C
We play a lot and we run a lot. So, you know, I think guys who have been here a lot, we all. We all realize, like, all training camp is really going to be is making sure we're in shape and running a lot. Like, we do the beep test every year. So we definitely were on the line a bit today and a lot of sprinting.
- [76:07]
A
Explain the beep test for people who may not know what it is.
- [76:09]
C
Yeah. Beep test is like, so you're going to run from the baseline to the opposite three point line and you're going to hit. And when you hear the beep, you run and you got to touch the other line before it beeps again. And then when it beeps again, you should already be on your way back. And it gets faster every time. And it's pretty much run to fail.
- [76:25]
A
Is it a last man standing kind of thing? Like, does somebody win?
- [76:29]
C
Yeah, we have a winner every year. Yeah, there were a couple. There were a couple votes on me to win this year, but, you know, I didn't. I didn't get it done.
- [76:35]
A
Who won?
- [76:37]
C
TJ And Quinn Jackson. They tied. They were running for so long. Rick just called it.
- [76:41]
A
Wow. Of course, T.J. mC. Of course, T.J McConnell.
- [76:45]
C
What else would you expect?
- [76:46]
A
All right, so. So this. At the risk of being evicted from New Smith Island. You guys are a tough team to pin down this year, expectations wide. Tyrese is going to miss the whole season. Miles Turner's gone. You got new centers that are jostling for minutes. We had our over unders pod with Bill Bill Simmons and Joe House. The other day. I went under on the Pacers. 36 and a half wins. I'm a little pesach. Pessimistic. Tell me why I'm wrong. And, and how are you guys feeling about expectations internally? Are you, are you hearing this kind of doubt that people have and are you using it as fuel?
- [77:19]
C
Yeah, we hear the doubt. I mean, we hear the doubt all the time. But, you know, I've said it a couple times, like we, we've lived in this space for like the last four years. The space of being constantly doubted, the space of people not believing us and thinking that, you know, it was a little bit of overhype, I guess you would say, or just non belief. And from our starting five, yeah, we're missing our guy and Tyrese. But the way that we play, we've always played a five man. We've always played a five man team. We've always played together, we've always run the floor, we've always played hard, we've always competed. And I don't think like, just because we've lost Tyrese and Miles, that doesn't change our mindset and our approach and, you know, just how our outlook on the game is. Like, you could see, you could look at the postseason last year and see just how hard we fought. We still have a huge bunch of those guys coming back. I think our nature and the culture that we've built for the Indiana Pacers hasn't gone anywhere.
- [78:12]
A
Do you have friends in the league who have, who have approached you and said, man, I just, I would love to play on your team because of the way, like, there's no, I'm not going to name names, but there's no, like, we're going to stand and watch this guy dribble for 15 seconds at the shot clock and stand around. There's like, everyone's moving and it's hard. But have you had friends in the league be like, man, it looks so much fun?
- [78:33]
C
Yeah, I've had plenty of people come up to me, like, the way you guys play it just so. And you know, I've had people come up to me and just say, like, man, I was really rooting for you guys last year. And I've also had people come up and like, when we're playing and we're at the free throw line and someone's shooting, they're like, man, can you guys slow down? I'm tired. You guys are running too much, bro.
- [78:50]
A
All right, let's go through some of the playoff run because it was obviously just bananas, crazy all the way up until the very sad ending, which we will talk about. Game 1 against the Knicks, I think will be the craziest game I ever attend. No matter how long I cover the NBA. That's the huge comeback. And everyone's gonna remember the Tyrese shot. We'll talk about it. The one that bounces up and you think it's a three. He does the choke sign. Everyone is gonna remember that Aaron Neesmith went on a heater. I don't think people are gonna adequately remember how absolutely insane that stretch of three point shooting was. Like, it's. It might be the greatest short term, like, short minutes, heater any player has ever gotten on five threes in, like, I don't know, two, three minutes, Whatever. It was one crazy after the next. The Knicks are botching switches, getting caught on screens, and every time they do it, you're lighting it up.
- [79:44]
C
At.
- [79:44]
A
At what point in that, like, did you just lose consciousness? Like, what, by the time the fourth one goes up, are you. Like, I don't even know what's going on here, but this is going in. Like, what is that?
- [79:53]
C
Like, you know, I say, like, that's what. That's what you put to work in for. So, like, all the days and the extra hours and the late nights that you work and you grind and you get the repetition and the shots up, those are the moments that it shows when you just out there playing free and just not thinking. And, you know, anytime once after, like, the second or the third three, all I wanted was the ball, because I knew if I got the ball, it was going up and it was going in. It didn't matter where I was, didn't matter how far away from the basket I was. I just knew if I threw it at the basket, it was going in.
- [80:25]
A
Someone on your bench, on the coaching staff, told me about. I said, do you have any good Aaron Niest stories or funny stories or about game one specifically? And he said, this is what his memory. And I wonder if he. You remember this. There's a timeout with 7 1/2 minutes left thereabouts. You guys are down 108, 92. Knicks are going. OG Anunobi has just scored a basket. Crowds roaring. You guys are walking to the bench, and there are fans behind your bench talking all sorts of Junk to you as you're coming back. And this coach remembers Obie Toppen talking to one of the fans to we're gonna with some bad words sprinkling like we're gonna walk your ass to down watch us walk your asses. I don't know what you all cheering about. We're going to win this game. And then you start going crazy and he's going to the same fantasy. I told you. I told you. Do you remember that fan interaction?
- [81:10]
C
I do. There was one fan behind our bench, like to more towards the head coach's side. He was chirping all game, all game. And we start hitting those threes. And he got real quiet. He got real quiet real quick. And it was, you know, doing that at Madison Square Garden where everybody just talked so much. They're so rude. It was just. It's the greatest feeling in the world to send that. That crowd home sad like that. They said, I had a bunch of my boys at the game and they said like, after game one finished, it looked like a funeral had just gotten out.
- [81:44]
A
I believe it. By the way, your agent aforementioned Mike admitted to me he was getting ready to leave the game. I don't know if he's told you that. He was like, did I beat the crowd out of here? And then after the second one, he was like, maybe I gotta stay for this.
- [81:56]
C
Yeah. Yeah.
- [81:57]
A
All right. The Halliburton shot, I rewatched. I mean, I've watched it a billion times. I rewatched it again. I was like, I got to see where Aaron is on this shot at.
- [82:04]
C
The best view in the house.
- [82:05]
A
Well, first, first you're neck. You're like next to him at the top of the arc and you cut to the basket and you're open as he's dribbling backwards. Did you think you were going to.
- [82:14]
C
Get the ball 100% even? Like, even when we're running down the court? You know, I thought Ty was going to do is, you know, get set as defender up and maybe flip it back to me for three. But, you know, Tyrese is such a gamer. He was going to take the sharp regardless. So when he started to drive and I backdoored to the rim because we were only down two and he didn't pass me the ball. That's when I was like, oh, he's just going to. He's going to shoot it. And so he stepped back, he rose up, and when it hit the back of the rim, I remember I was standing right under the basket and I looked up and you could hear the entire crowd roar. And everybody was like, ah. And I'm looking at the ball underneath the basket. I was like, oh, that's coming back, back in. And when it dropped straight back down, the whole crowd deflated. And we just.
- [82:58]
B
It was ridiculous.
- [82:59]
A
So I was going to ask you about that. I mean, you are literally under the basket as the thing is going straight up. And I was going to. I was going to ask you two things. Number one, did you have a good enough and, like, calm enough field of vision that you could tell this has a shot to go in? And I think it sounds like yes. And number two, can you close your eyes and, like, see that in your mind's eyes still today, like, the ball comes coming down?
- [83:21]
C
Yeah, I still remember that vividly. And it's all. It was in slow motion, man. Like, as soon as it hit the back of the room and it bounced straight up in real time, I was like. I couldn't even really hear the crowd, but I was like, oh, my God, that's going back in. There's no way. And as soon as it dropped through the net, it was. Yeah, just chaos, man. I'll never forget that. Never.
- [83:42]
A
Okay, the previous round, Game 2 in Cleveland, is the put back free throw just one of the most improbable plays in another improbable comeback. You guys around 7 at the time, 119, 112 with less than a minute ago. Somehow, of course, you won the game. And I watched that again, and I noticed a couple of things I had kind of forgotten about. Number one, Donovan Mitchell's next to you as the free throw is going up, and I can't. He's talking, but I don't know if he's talking to his bench or you're talking to him. Did you guys exchange any words? Was that free as Pascal was shooting that free throw?
- [84:12]
C
We probably did. I'm not gonna lie. A lot of times I do talk at the free throw line. You know, some of it, you could say a strategy to calm the person down or, you know, kind of get them off their game a little bit. But as soon as he. As soon as Pascal shot the free throw, I just took off because I knew the situation and Pascal had missed the first free throw. And, you know, I was just like, just in case there's a chance it comes off, we need the ball. So I just took off and made a play.
- [84:37]
A
Yeah. And next to you, you're on the left wing, and on the right wing is Andrew Nemhardt, and he crashes, too, from the same spot. And Ty Jerome kind of boxes him out. Donovan Mitchell didn't box you out. Did you give him any shit about that then or since? Were you surprised he didn't put a body on you?
- [84:52]
C
It's funny, though.
- [84:52]
B
It's so funny.
- [84:53]
C
Like, for the rest of the playoffs, I'm talking every game, every free throw, the person next to me would hit me so hard when I was standing on the wing, they would turn around and just fully chuck me to make sure I couldn't get back in there.
- [85:08]
A
Okay, now we have to talk about the bad stuff. What is your memory of halftime of game seven in Oklahoma City?
- [85:19]
C
Yeah, so I walked into the locker room, you know, and shout out to Ty, because Ty had such a good attitude. When we walked in at halftime, you know, he was up, he was positive. He was cheering us on. He was saying, we got it, we can get it done. He was trying to help out any way he could. And I remember we just kind of. We rallied together and we just like, we can do this. We can get it done, and we can get it done. For Tyrese, we were up by one or two points and, you know, we just had. We had a positive outlook on it. We knew it was going to be. Be hard, and we knew that OKC is a really good third quarter team. And when they get a run, they always get one run a game. And usually when they get their run at home, they keep it. So we were just talking about, let's not let them get their run. Let's not let them get their run. And, you know, they were able to get it and they kept it.
- [86:05]
A
What's the huddle like after Tyrese goes down? Who talks? Because just as a viewer, like, I was in shock. You guys have to win a basketball game in which the NBA title is at stake. Like, how did everyone handle that?
- [86:18]
C
I think everybody kind of like, you know, everybody kind of stepped up a little bit. You know, Pascal spoke more, I spoke more. You know, I'm more of like a leader by example and leader in my work ethic and how I play and, you know, just. Just watch me and follow me kind of deal. And I was more so like the, you know, guys, like, let's go. Let's just use this as motivation, like fuel. Just yelling at guys, trying to get them fired up and just try and get as much passion as I can out of anybody and turn a negative into a positive. Positive.
- [86:48]
A
But have you talked to Tyrese about the game since then? Have you? I mean, what I don't who are you closest with on the. Like, in my. In my. In the heads of fans? You guys are always sort of reminiscing about these big moments in your career, but probably you're not and you've moved on. But, like, do you remember over this, maybe in July and August, like, conversations with teammates where you. Where you sort of digest, like, the enormity of what happened?
- [87:14]
C
We had, like, you know, we had a team dinner. We do, like, a team dinner before the start of every season with just players and coaching staff. And we talked about it then of just, like, being appreciative of the journey, how far we went, how tough it was, what we learned, and, you know, kind of having to turn the page. Even though we didn't get the ultimate job done, we still were able to, you know, take a franchise that hasn't been to the finals in 25 years. Was, you know, I'm still able to look into the practice facility and see that Eastern Conference champion banner raise and be like, hey, we were a part of that. We did that. We accomplished that. And, you know, now we know just how hard it is to get there. We know what it takes, and we know when we're going to get back there, that we're not going to lose that again.
- [87:58]
A
So a lot of times, those team dinners, you got teams book a room at a restaurant and all that. Like, who speaks? Was there someone from the players? Obviously, Rick is probably going to speak, but is there a player who speaks?
- [88:09]
C
Yeah, we had a couple guys speak. I spoke, Pascal spoke, Andrew spoke, Obi spoke, and DJ Spoke.
- [88:15]
A
Oh, wow. So that's a lot of guys. Similar. Similar message. Like, did anyone say something like, offbeat that you'll always remember, or, like, similar.
- [88:22]
C
Message, just, like, how fun the year was, you know, how appreciative of the journey was. And, you know, just, like, we just kind of also, like you just talked about earlier, just stamping the belief that even though Ty's down and Miles is gone, like, we can still accomplish much more than everybody's writing us off for. Like, I think there's ultimate confidence in our room, in our locker room, and in our staff that we're top four team in the east easily. So I think that still, like, that's our goal, that's our mindset, and that's how we're going to approach the season.
- [88:51]
A
Obviously, like, this playoff run probably changed your life in a lot of different ways. It certainly rose your profile. I know you and some of your friends in the league, including a couple of Vanderbilt guys, Darius Garland among them, have started some kind of app where you kind of control your content or the monetization of your content. Explain to me what that is and why you were doing it.
- [89:11]
C
Yeah, so I started this app. It's called Off Court. We started it two years ago. It's been in the works for a long time. And finally we're getting ready to drop it on October 17th. And I'm super excited. But we just thought basketball players have always been such a big driver of the culture, whether it be in social media and just like, you know, kids lives like, I feel like more basketball. More kids want to be basketball players than anything else and just dress like us and act like us. And, you know, from Michael Jordan back in the day, you know, signing with Nike and taking equity over just a contract, he helped shape Nike and change and turn into a monumental shoe company and the global brand and, you know, within ourselves, that's where athletes are as well. Like, we're our own brands or our own global brands. And, you know, we just wanted to be able to show that we're more than just players. And as players, you can give access to our lives behind the scenes.
- [90:09]
A
So this app is gonna be like. Is it gonna be a subscription? I'm gonna, like, what? I'm gonna see stuff that I can't see on Instagram or whatever.
- [90:16]
C
Yeah, exactly. So it's gonna be like, I'll post, like, my day. My day in the. Like, day in the life vlogs. I could post my pregame meals. I could post my workout routines. I can interact with fans on a more deeper connection. And if they want to have a little birthday conversation, I can give them a little birthday conversation. They can ask me how the game went, why I made decisions the way that I made. It's just like. It's more of a personal feel and allowing fans and myself to have a deeper connection and feel like they really get to know me. Even my hobbies off the court, whether or not I like to read or play video games. Like, I can post that on my app and have conversations with fans and let them know who I really am.
- [90:58]
A
Speaking of hobbies, I heard board games are big. Aaron D. Smith thing. I heard Clue. I heard Clue is one of them. Who is your character in clue?
- [91:07]
C
Mr. Green?
- [91:09]
A
He's mayor Green now. In, like, in. In the. So they have updated them for modern times. It's not. It's not Ms. Peacock anymore. It's Solicitor Peacock does not miss everybody. I'm Professor Plum. I'm a Professor Plum. Guy. I've always been a Professor Plum guy, But I respect Mr. Green. Colonel Mustard. Colonel Mustard's a little shady. A little shady. I don't trust Colonel Mustard.
- [91:30]
C
When I was a kid, Colonel Mustard was my guy, but, you know, I switched to green. I switched to green when I wised up.
- [91:35]
A
Do you have any clue players on the team? Any players who get into this with you?
- [91:39]
C
Nah. Another game I play is Katan. I know. Tyrese Love.
- [91:43]
A
Yeah, I have not dabbled in that one yet. I've got a bunch of guy friends who. I have a bunch of guy friends who have invited me to play, but they're like 15 year veterans. They know how to play. I'm like, this is complicated. I got grain, I got wood. Should I dabble in it?
- [91:58]
C
Yeah, yeah, you need. Yeah, you should do it. For sure. I call it like a more. A more sophisticated monopoly.
- [92:04]
A
Okay. All right. Speaking of growing, you mentioned Michael Jordan. That's my job. Generation. Who. Who was your favorite player growing up? And you can't say Chris Middleton, who was above you at the same. At the same high school?
- [92:16]
C
Yeah, I was a big Dwayne Wade fan. He was. He made me a Miami Heat fan. And he's the reason why I ended up, you know, falling in love with basketball.
- [92:25]
A
Really? Have you. So have you told him that?
- [92:27]
C
I actually never met him. I've never met him yet.
- [92:31]
A
That's got to change. That feels like an easy thing to change.
- [92:34]
C
Yeah, it is. Should be.
- [92:38]
A
Speaking of growing up, you grew up in South Carolina, same high school as Chris Middleton. This I did. Which I knew. This I did not know. Your dad bought a property on a marsh in South Carolina, built a house. Which is to say that you helped build the house. I'm going to read this paragraph from a story about you in the Indianapolis Star. Aaron cut down trees, dug ponds, and built chickens, coops. His mother created a business selling koi fish that they found on the property. I had no idea. And Aaron was instrumental in handling the fish. Okay, what is. What does that mean? Where do you find the fish? Do you. How do you handle the fish? I had no idea that just. I. This is the first I'm hearing of this.
- [93:21]
C
Yeah. All true. All true facts. So my mom. My parents are, like, huge hobbyists. They have hobbies forever. But, like, they started to. They wanted to start a koi business, so my dad went to Japan, got a bunch of koi fish, brought them back, and just started to breed and sell them. We would always Dr. To just different shows. They had koi Fish shows in Greenville, South Carolina, Jacksonville, Florida, Atlanta, Georgia. And so I would just help them like dig the ponds, take care of them, catch them. I used to have to like put the waders on, you know, the waiters. You would.
- [93:49]
A
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah.
- [93:50]
C
It would go in the water, take giant nets. So my dad would be on one side of the pond, I'd be on the other and we just carry the nets through the water, put them in the corner and then start picking them up and put them in buckets, bag em up and ship them.
- [94:05]
A
In. Building the house and cutting down the trees. What I liked about the follow up in the story to that was it's talking about your work ethic but it's like it hammered into like I'd rather be a basketball player than do this kind of work.
- [94:16]
B
100%.
- [94:17]
C
Yeah. It taught me how to work hard, but also taught me that like, yeah, I want to be indoors.
- [94:23]
A
I also heard that you and your family there was at least one or alligator has invaded the property and it didn't end well. It didn't end well for the alligator.
- [94:32]
C
I didn't end well for the alligator. I took no part in that. That's personally one of my biggest fears is alligators. But my dad and my neighbor, they took care of that.
- [94:41]
A
They took care of it. We'll just, we'll just leave it at that. What? Give me your best coach Jerry Stackhouse story from your Vanderbilt time. Because Stack, Stack's a one of one character. He's a one unique character.
- [94:53]
C
He's a one on one man. I actually ran into him in the airport like two months ago after the finals. But he, I remember one of my first, my first days on campus with Stack my sophomore year. I was in a gym shooting by myself and he just, he was in his office, brand new office, comes down and he just starts working out with me one on one. And we worked out for about an hour, 45 minutes and you know, he kind of just was like, we're gonna get you, we're gonna get you right? I'm only, I only plan on coaching you for one year and then we're gonna get you out of here.
- [95:24]
A
Wow. And he was probably in almost as good a shape as you.
- [95:28]
B
Oh yeah.
- [95:29]
C
He would hop in, he would still hop in on fives. We'd play five on five. He'd hop in. He wouldn't run all the way down and back but he would stay on half court and play fives. And he still had it. He started.
- [95:39]
A
All right, give me last one, obviously you've been in camp with the Pacers. TJ's injured, you've got some stuff you're dealing with. Everyone around the league has taken note of, like your style of play, the team style, play full court prep. Well, you're going to have some imitators around the league. You're going to have teams that are sort of like, ready for it more than they were maybe last year. So take me inside camp and give me one thing the Pacers are going to do this year that's going to surprise us or be a little different or something tactically interesting or a player that's blowing up. Just something from inside camp that I'm going to watch game one and be like, oh, okay, that's a thing.
- [96:14]
C
I think you'll be shocked that like you think we run fast already and every everything but we're just gonna do it faster. We're gonna do it faster, we're gonna do it more efficiently, we're gonna do it better. And I think that like a lot of people expect us to change the way that we play, and we're just not. We're just gonna do it like people can imitate and try and do what we do, but nobody could do it like us because we've been doing it for so long. And you know, you can only, you can just only hope to imitate. Can't be the original. And I can't give away all the secrets.
- [96:43]
A
No, you can't. That's why I said just give me one. Just could be one. Secrets get out fast. Once the game start, it's all on tape. Aaron NE Smith, congratulations on all your success, all your team success. I look forward to watching you guys this year. Thank you for making a little time.
- [96:57]
C
Appreciate you, Zach. Yes, sir.
- [97:00]
A
All right, that's it for the Zach Low show today and for this week. We talked a lot. This pod two episodes Bill's pod the mega over unders. Enough talking out of me. The season starts next week. Week actual games to talk about. Thanks to Steve Nash. Thanks to Aaron Nesmith. Thanks to Jesse, Jonathan and Mike on production. Thank you for listening and watching the Zach Low Show. We'll see you next week. For the start of the NBA season, must be 21 or over in president select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-G GAMBLER or visit rg-help, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York. And Doug Here we have the Limu.
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