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All right, welcome in to a new episode of the Zach Lowe Show. We got a lot to cover. I was away for a few weeks. It feels like nothing happened, but a lot of little somethings happen. We're going to talk about Giannis, we're going to talk about what hasn't happened or didn't happen with Trey Young and the Atlanta Hawks. We're going to talk about the restricted free agents still in limbo. What's going to happen with Jonathan Kaminga, Quentin Grimes, all those people. Lucas sign an extension. We'll hit that. Talk about the lakers. Talk about LeBron. By the way, the new LeBron ad. I don't know what to make of that thing. It feels like. It feels like something that belongs in Dune or something. The weird voice of, like, it's a child, but also sounds a little bit like an alien. And LeBron's making a weird face that's sort of like a mean face, but also like, did he smell, did he smell a fart or something when he puts the crown on the Forever King? What's interesting about that, though, is it feels like the kind of ad you would do if you were indicating. Like, are they indicating this is going to be his last season? I don't know what to make of any of it, and so I'm just going to leave it there. What else do we talk about? Kevin Durant, Matt Ishbia comes up. De' Aaron Fox. De' Aaron Fox signed a big extension. We'll talk about that. We're gonna hit the whole league. And then Sean Fennesee comes on for Mets Corner. It's been a wild ride on Mets Corner for the last month or so, so we'll talk about all that coming up on the Zach Lowe Show. This episode of the Zach Lowe show is presented by HubSpot. Using only 20% of your business data is like going from a starting five to a starting one. Good luck with that. But that's how most businesses operate today, using only 20% of their data. Unless you have HubSpot, where all the data hidden in emails, call logs and chat messages turns into insights to grow your business. Because having all the data makes all the difference. Learn more@HubSpot.com foreign I took my microphone and everything just in case something crazy happened while I was abroad, like Giannis or LeBron. Nothing crazy happened, but a lot of stuff kind of did happen. If you in dribs and drabs, if you paid attention. So we're gonna go rapid fire through. What did I miss while I was on vacation. I've actually been back for a few days, but there's no point doing anything right before Labor Day weekend. Okay, what did I miss? We're going to hit 12 topics. I think in all maybe 11. I can't remember number one, the Giannis roller coaster. Early in my vacation I started firing off text messages to all the teams you would expect because Shams Trania reiterated his report from May or June or whenever it was that Giannis was looking around considering his options open, considering his life like we all are. What options are before me as the Bucks sort of try to figure out life post dame with Miles Turner. What's happening with the Bucks? I fired off the text. Is something going to happen? Where's my microphone? Then just two days ago Thanasis the most untradable player in the NBA Thanasis Antokounmpo the Thanasis Antetokounmpo resigns with the Milwaukee Bucks. Shams reports that that's a tell that Giannis is going to stay with the Bucs this season. Everybody rejoices and breathes a sigh of relief. Love Thanasis. What a life Finesses has with the Milwaukee Bucks. I will say there's probably I, I would imagine among Bucks fans there's some clowning of Shams going on like oh you were just BSing this the whole time. You ESPN doing its thing for clicks. Giannis was never leaving. Hahaha told you so. I wouldn't do that. Shams didn't put that out for nothing. I don't think those reports were bs. I think like a lot of players in his situation, Giannis is considering his options and I think just because Thanasis resigned for a one year deal and Giannis is going to start the season with the Bucks and probably play this whole season with the Bucks considering a trade would is such a massive undertaking with the aprons and all that that doing it without a team that has any cap space to facilitate the Nets will eventually run out of cap space is, is very difficult. I don't, I wouldn't just sort of put this one to bed like and, and next off season is really then shaping up to be an interesting one because next off season is when Giannis becomes extension eligible and it's like four years, 300 million, some crazy number. I can't remember what it is. And that's, that's the line in the sand. Like he either signs that or he doesn't. And then 26, 27 is the last guaranteed year on his contract. He has A player option after that for $63 million. Holy smokes. These salaries are getting high. And that's if he wants to put pressure on the organization, like, that's how to do it. I think even had he sort of made a soft request this summer, I think the Bucks would have been like, no, we're not doing that. We're not. We're not trading you. You have two years left on your contract, plus a player option. We don't have to do that. And I think he probably looked around and said, what better option is there now? It's not the draft anymore. All the moves have been made, cap space has been taken up. What better option is there for me? Where am I going to go? And then you look at the east and it's like, you know, who are we really scared of? Like, I don't. I don't think the Bucks could win East. I don't think the Bucks are a contender. I think their perimeter rotation is too thin. We talked. We already did the deep dive on the Bucks in their off season. But they do have Giannis. They do have the best player in the conference and a top three to four player in the NBA. Giannis, plus some shooting. Remember, he, like, leaned even further into point Giannis at the end of last year. I mean, in the east, if they're healthy, if he get. If they get 70 games out of Giannis and they're relatively healthy and AJ Green and Gary Trent make shots and Kevin Porter Jr develops and Bobby Portis is Bobby Portis, and, you know, Cole Anthony gives him something. Torian Prince gives him something like, what is that, a 48 win team? It's the East. And then you get to the playoffs, you think. You think Giannis is, like, scared of Orlando? I like Orlando. I like what they did. I think they're win more games than Milwaukee. They're good. I thought they were tough in the playoffs last year against Boston. They've been tough in the playoffs when they've gotten opportunities. They got Desmond Bay and all that. Yas isn't scared of them. Detroit. Yeah. It's not scared of them. Cleveland. By the way, the other. You know, speaking of things that happened, Max Schuss broke. Broke a bone in his foot. He's out three to four months. Hey, you know, every little thing matters. I think they really clicked into place when they had a roving shooter like Max Schrouss on the floor last year. He missed the first part of last season, too. That could be a big deal. Cleveland. Anyone scared of Cleveland? I Mean, they'll win the east this year, probably. They'll win the most games in the East. They'll win the east in the regular season. I mean, playoffs. Everyone see what happened. Like, they're better than the Bucks. They should beat the Bucks in the playoff series. But I'm just talking Giannis. You think Giannis is like, oh, Jared Allen, he tries to block my shot at the rim. I'm so scared. I mean, Jared Allen's gotten him a few times, but you know what I mean? New York, Mikhail Bridges, extension. That happened right when I got to Croatia on vacation. Like day one, I'm swimming in the bay thinking, like, oh, hope Bobby Marks is doing the apron calculation so I don't have to do it because I'm on vacation. I really don't want to do apron calculator. I don't want to do it. And sure enough, he did. And they're going to have be in a position to maybe, maybe sneak under the second apron in a couple of years going forward. Boy, the pressure on these two teams, by the way, Cleveland and New York. This is the most pressure a Cleveland team has faced since LeBron was there. And this is the most pressure a Knicks team has faced, I'm going to say, since, like, Ewing's prime. This is the first year in forever where the Knicks legitimately face pressure of, like, if you don't make the Finals, it's a disappointing season. But I don't think Giannis is scared of them either. I mean, he should be. The Knicks are super talented. I think they're starting five. If they keep their starting five, what it was will rebound from a kind of disappointing year last year. Statistically, I think the Mitchell Robinson thing was real. If he stays healthy, maybe he starts. And they have a different starting lineup. Did a nice job running out their bench, did the deep dive. Don't need to do it again. Yeah, I don't think the Bucs can beat those teams in the playoff series. I'm just talking from Giannis's perspective. He's like, you know how he's wired, like, go through the wall. Whatever he said about the wall, go through the wall. If they disappoint this season and they don't have cap flexibility in the summer because of all that dead money that Dame has, they don't really control their draft picks going forward. They don't have a lot of bullets left. Like the Miles Turner thing, which was an all time desperation move, turning what was going to be $50 million of no production in Dame into $50 million. Part Miles Turner, part dame. Dead money into Miles Turner. If this doesn't work, I mean, I don't need to tell you guys, the whole league is going to circle. And we know who the teams will be, you know, the Rockets, tons of assets still, even after trading for Durant, who we'll get to. But then it's all comes down to, like, what. What actually happens this season? Like, what if the Rockets win the championship? I don't think they will. They're not going to be my pick, but they're really good. They're a contender. Like, I wouldn't pick them over Oklahoma City. Some other teams maybe, but they're really good. They're in the conversation if they win the title. Like, are they out on any big trades? They just sort of go forward with that. They have. I don't know. It's kind of like what happened to Oklahoma City. What if Oklahoma City had lost in the second round again? Would they have been in Onionis? Would they have gotten itchy? I don't know. I don't think so. It doesn't feel like a Sam Presti thing. But that whole what if went out the door because they won the championship. Jdub is back. Chet's back. Good extensions. We move forward, they're out. Spurs. Spurs would have a meeting again, depending on what happens this year. But now spurs have to have a meeting. Now's gone. Thanassis is back. Hawks. Hawks are interesting because they own a piece of the Bucs pick in each of the next two drafts. They got a lot of interesting young talent, you know. Do you look at it? Of course you look at it. It's Giannis, by the way. Any star player other than the top four or five guys in the league, it becomes at least somewhat. But the Hawks, you know, any. Any trades probably got to have Jalen Johnson in it. He's really good. He's really young. And, you know, if you're the Hawks, you're like, well, we did just watch Damon Giannis not really lead us anywhere. Is Trey, if he's even back. We got a whole thing to talk about there long term. Is Trey and Giannis any different? What, what's. What's the. What's the pivot point for us? Knicks, I suppose. I've never really bought that they have enough to interest the Bucks, but if the Bucks are looking at established players in their primes or entering their primes because they don't control their picks, they can't tank. And what's like, you know, five first round Picks for the spurs, it sounds good, but if four of them are spurs picks with Wembanyama or in Giannis or something, are they really good picks? Are they all picks in the 20s? And the Knicks can give you some good players, but even better than than that, I think the Cavs. The Cavs have sort of players that fit that mold too. Not Evan Mobley, by the way. Not Evan Mobley. I mean, again, we'll see what happens this year. Cavs, tons of pressure on them. Miami, they can trade up to three picks if they do some finagling with the protections on the one they owe. They got a bunch of semi interesting young players that I'm sure they would try to get into it. They always try and get into it. Nikola Jovic, by the way. Holy cow. Balling out in Euro Basket. By the way, Euro basketball. I gotta buy another streaming service, even a temporary one to watch Eurobasket Clippers. That feels like more of a free agency thing in a couple years. Although they're starting to reclaim some of the draft pick equity that they shoved out the door in the Paul George trade. Eh, warriors, that's been like a warrior's dream. Like, oh, Giannis and Steph, could we make it happen? Not sure there's enough in the cupboard there. And there'd be other teams that would, would come out of the woodwork if, if things go badly. So, you know, look, I think the, the storybook ending is that Giannis just stays in Milwaukee his entire career, stays in the city that took him in, stays in the city that took his family and stays in the city where he broke the 50 year championship drought in 2021. And I think all of us would kind of hope for that to happen and maybe it'll happen again this year. They have a chance to be solid. And maybe he just looks around again and says, you know what, this is where I want to be. That would be cool. We'll see what happens. Item number two, speaking of the Rockets, why is Kevin Durant not extended yet? Should we read anything into that? My answer would be probably not. Jabari Smith jr's deal is done. Atari Eason is next. And my guess would be that Houston is just doing the math of where does Tari Eason's deal come in? And look, I've been Tar Eason fanboy number one since I saw him play his first game in the NBA. He's also had some major league lower body injuries. Maybe those are behind them, maybe they're not. But all that comes into extension negotiations, as does this morass of restricted free agency that all the guys who could be restricted next year are watching play out. We'll get to that in a minute. Excuse me. I think they're probably just doing the math of how much can we give Kevin without really imperiling ourselves. And by the way, this team, though young and though they have to decide or Fred Van Vliet has to decide what to do with his option going forward after this season. I think it's a $25 million option. They're going to get expensive fast. By the way, sneakily could have two lottery picks in 2027. The Rockets, who are contenders right now, could have two lottery picks in 20 27. They own Phoenix's pick and they have swap rights with Brooklyn in 2027. Probably Brooklyn's going to want to hit the gas a little bit before that, but who knows. So I'm not worried about Kevin Durant. I expect given his relationship with the email doka and how he kind of semi chose the Rockets that that will get done. Topic number three, Matt Ishbia. Mattish, the team that traded Kevin Durant. I. I just, I love. I just, I never want him to stop talking. I enjoy all of it. I met Matt Ishbia at a bar for 45 seconds in Vegas. He was delightful. I'm delighted by all of this. I. This was a great one to read on vacation. I guess. ESPN did their projections, Phoenix did poorly in their projections and Mattish be a tweeted I'm not worried about what the so called experts think. I love the so called. Like if, if they're not experts, who are the experts? Only people who work from teams are allowed to be experts. If that's the case, what, what are we even doing? Why read anything? I don't care what the so called experts thinks. They had us as a title, as a title contender the past two years and they were wrong then. We're focused on making our fans proud by playing great as a team and building a brand of basketball that's tough and gritty. Now, I like the last part of that sentence because he's not saying we're focused on winning a title. We're focused on having a better future than at least 26 of the 30 teams in the NBA or 29 other than Phoenix. That didn't work out. Just said we're focused on building a culture. That's actually the right attitude. Burn everything that happened to the ground. Take Devin Booker. Take your new supporting cast. You got Mark Williams, you got Malawat, you got Dylan Brooks, he's a good culture guy. We'll see if he's a long term fit. Take a shot on Jalen Green, Ryan Dunn, Iguodoro, what comes of them and build it back up into something completely different. But it that they had us as a title contender the past two years and we're wrong, then that's a new one. That's like ha. Jokes on you. We sucked. Ha. That's a new one. I love it. I think they'll, you know, look, what's their starting lineup this year? Probably Booker, Green, Brooks, maybe Ryan Dunn, Mark Williams off the bench. Grayson Allen, Royce o', Neill, Godoro Malawatch. Nick Richards is still here. Stagger Jalen Green and Devin Booker. Hard to see how that's a viable team in the Western Conference and, and that ESPN is really wrong to project them as a lottery team. I think they're a lottery team. I don't see a roadmap tracing that rotation to like a top 12 offense or a top 18 defense. And that's a recipe for not a good team. Item number four, De' Aaron Fox Max extension. August 2nd was the day he could have signed it. I think it either happened that day or the day after with the San Antonio spurs. And boy did I. I mean I'm not reading everything when I'm on vacation, but I'm reading some stuff, I'm looking over some stuff, sense some consternation about the de' Aaron Fox extension. Like I don't know, timelines and you know, they just drafted Dylan Harper and Stefan Castle and back to back drafts. A lot of guards, A lot of guards who can't really shoot right now. Like is that and need the ball. Is that really a formula for success? How does he line up with Wembanyama? I don't know. It's a lot of money for Dear and Fox. Let me bring up, you know, how much the, the numbers are. I mean it's 30% of the cap, so it's going to be a lot. 49 this year or 49 starting in 26, 27, 53, 57, 61.5 in 20, 29, 20, 30 and that's when it expires. It's a lot. It's a lot. I love it. I don't care. I mean maybe love is strong, but I like it and I think this is going to work. I think de' Aaron Fox is going to be awesome with Wembanyama. They played I think five games together last year. I can't wait to see it over an extended period of time. The spurs have some questions about their three point shooting. Absolutely. You know you pencil out their starting five I'm going to guess is Fox. He's been so so Castle so so at best Harrison Barnes just pencil him in for now. Solid Visell more than solid. Wembanyama took a lot of threes made a decent amount of them for his size off the bench you got Harper, Bryant, Keldon Johnson, Sohan. You know it's eh shooting wise. Champagne and Waters could help. Lindy Waters was a. You know he can really shoot Olenek Luke Cornett splitting the center spot. I can't wait for the olynic Wembanyama minutes in the cornet when Benyama minutes. By the way the shooting is just so so for sure But I'm betting on de' Aaron Fox having a big bounce back year to like beam team Fox to clutch player of the year candidate Fox. He might have won it. I can't remember. I don't really care about that award. I think the pick and roll chemistry with Wemby it's going to come and it's going to be fantastic. I I think his pull up three will regress closer to the mean whatever that is for him. I think his three point shooting will have an uptick just by playing with Oyama who I think will shoot up into being a top five to six player. No brainer this season. I like this team. I'm higher on this team than Vegas. I think they're going to make a run at a sixth, seventh, eighth seed in the Western Conference if all things break well and Wembanyama's healthy and I don't mind the two timelines thing. Don't obsess over it. Not everything has to click into. You're not going to build this team of like everyone's between 23 and 25 years old. Let's go and have this five year Runway. It doesn't happen like that for every team. Not every team can be the Thunder and even the Thunder aren't quite like that. Fox can carry them now and TBD on what happens in three, four or five years. Do you have to flip him? Do you have to flip Harper? Do you have to flip Castle? Do you have to flip none of them do. They develop into this sort of like rangy combo of guards who can all pass, shoot defend and they have the best player, the best young player in the whole world to center it all around. I'm super high on this team. I don't mind it. I Think that extension is going to work out fine. All right, item number five. Nothing happened with any of the four restricted free agents. They're twisting in the wind today. September 2nd, just like they were in July. Jonathan Kaminga. Ooh, those negotiations have gotten testy. Testy? The warriors want a one plus one with the second year, a team option, and he's got to waive his de facto no trade clause. That doesn't seem good. Josh Giddey. I had a guy from another front office text me about Josh Giddey the other day. Hey, Bulls, now. Now you're deciding to play hardball after Patrick Williams, five years, 90 million. Now you're playing Harbaugh with a guy who's actually productive. A guy you traded a good player, Alex Caruso to get now. Well, better late than never. Cam Thomas, my frenemy, Cam Thomas. Quentin Grimes, just. It's just a tough landscape for them. And by the way, next year supposedly will be better for restricted free agents. I'm reading Bobby Marks guide to the 2026 off season and this is what he says. ESPN is projecting at least 10 teams. Brooklyn, Charlotte, Chicago, Detroit, Clippers, Lakers, Portland, Utah and Washington to have significant cap space. That sounds like a bonanza. I don't know what the definition of significant is, but I know that you look at some of those teams. Clippers may not have cap space. It depends on a lot of different things, including James Harden, Lakers, LeBron, some other stuff, Maybe have cap space, maybe don't. Portland, Shaden Sharp has a massive cap hold that takes up a lot of their space. Charlotte, they've got. They've got some young guys who get raises. They've got some draft picks coming in. It's a little tighter than that there. Detroit, same thing. If Jalen Duran and Jaden Ivy get extensions or even if their cap holds are sitting there, that soaks up a lot of it. So like Portland is. Oh, I did. Portland, you know, the other teams, Washington, Utah, Brooklyn, like, those are just straight up bad teams. I will say Washington is going to have so much cap space that they're potentially really interesting. And I think they will try to hit the gas next offseason. And Chicago to me looms as like they have a ton of potential flexibility. They are a big market. I'm not sure if the Ryan stores realize that, but they are a big market. They make. They make money, they print money and they have telegraphed that like they don't want to tank and they like they have some interesting young players in house. Depending on what happens With Kobe White. He's eligible for an extension now. It doesn't really make sense for him to take one. I think they're interesting, but, like, these restricted free agents just walked into the worst climate on Kaminga. Kaminga is the most interesting one because it's the last, best vestige of the two timelines Plan with the warriors, which I, I say this over and over again, was not a plan, it was an accident. And it hasn't really yielded any other than Kaminga. And I guess you could count Pajemski. I'm not sure I would trace the action. Javis is pretty good. Bullet Moody. I like Moody. I've always been a big fan of Moses Moody Moore, Moses Moody, like Perk used to say. But Kaminga, either as a player who has the potential to, like, I don't want to say blow up, but become something a lot more than he's been, or a trade piece, is like, essential to the last hanging thread of this idea that the warriors can pivot from a Steph era into something else without too much of a dip. It's looking very unlikely that that could happen, but. And Kaminga, you know, I had that monster series against Minnesota after Steph got hurt. I, I, it was good, like, it was encouraging. I, I just saw a guy who made a ton of tough shots. He did get to the line a lot. Like, I didn't watch that series be like, see this? And I've been a Kaminga guy. You guys know that this, this is what I've been talking about. I was like, wow, he just made a lot of tough, contested jumpers. But I think there's something there. I'll bet you the qualifying offer is sitting there. It's $8 million for him. All these guys are threats to take their qualifying offer, although I think Giddey is the least likely. I would expect some sort of like three years, 75 or something for Josh Giddy to get done. I think the qualifying offer doesn't make, I think it's a nightmare for the warriors because then they lose the ability to turn Kaminga into something else. It's not great for Kaminga because he sacrifices a lot of money compared to like the 20 something that he's being offered now. I'll bet you this today. I'll bet you they finally meet in the middle after what has been a very contentious months, years, I don't know, relationship negotiation. I, I think you just guarantee the second year and it's like two years, 48 or whatever the math is. I think that's a deal that could be palatable to everybody. Two plus one. I don't know. The plus one gets complicated. Who gets the plus one? Is it a team option or a player option? I just think there's too much of an obvious middle ground there. And I bet they, they settle on it and then deal with whatever trade they want to make later. Giddy, I said gets done. Grimes feels like there should be a deal there. Philly's got a little bit of like an apron crunch, but it's workable depending on what number Grimes would accept. There's also the. If the, the idea that if he takes the qualifying offer, Philadelphia could suddenly find itself like, oh my God, we could get under the tax if we just were like one. Andre Drummond dump away from getting under the tax. I just feel like he played well enough like that was a real basketball that he played Quentin Grimes when he kind of exploded toward the end of the season when the Sixers were tanking, when he had. When he was like the undisputed first option by a mile. But he didn't play garbage basketball. He didn't play selfish basketball. His defense declined a little bit because the load on him offensively. But I think that's going to translate into a supporting role in whatever the hell the Sixers are. I mean, no one knows what the hell the Sixers are going to be this year. I thought it was real. I, I would lean a little bit to a deal gets done there. The Cam Thomas one is the wild card. That's the one I could see being a qualifying offer. I could see it be. I don't know what the hell is going to happen there. So that, that's item number five. Item number six. Luka Doncic signed an extension. No, duh. Three years max. Extension gets him back onto the market after 10 years of service. He's playing great at Eurobasket. He still looks like he's in phenomenal shape. And the Lakers quietly have climbed to a very strong fourth in Fanduel's odds to win the Western Conference. Oklahoma City is number one by a long shot, plus 135. Denver plus 500. Houston plus 600. Lakers plus 900. Minnesota plus 1200 is next, tied with the Clippers. That feels disrespectful to the Timberwolves who blitzed the Lakers who were hobbled. LeBron got injured. Luka has sort of had like his on again, off again season in terms of his health. Didn't have a lot of time to develop chemistry. Obviously the center position was not where it hopefully is now, which is somewhat better, you know, but that's the reality is LeBron's going to be 41 years old in the playoffs next year. The expectation for LeBron James is that the little nicks and knacks that are not severe injuries but are enough to like limit his explosiveness, limit his ability to take over and all of that and he had one huge game in that series. I think it was game two. That's, that should be the expectation. That's not an anomaly. The guy's 41 years old. But you know, you look at this lineup, it's like Luka, LeBron Reeves, Hachimura. I think Ayton's going to work in the, with the Lakers. That doesn't mean, I think Ayton's going to be dominating. He's going to be an all star. He's going to average 20 and 10. He's going to be what everyone hoped. I just think he's going to be a solid citizen. I mean if he's not, if, if he's not all in now, I don't know when he will be. So I think he'll be a solid citizen, solid teammate. Buy into what they need him to do. Screen, roll, play your best defense. Walk into 16 and 8 every game. Make a couple mid range jumpers, we'll give you some of those. Throw some nice pass. I think it'll work off the bench. Marcus Smarts here, Gabe Vincent, Laravia Vando Jackson Hayes as a backup. That's better than Jackson Hayes as a starter. Maxi Kleba, there's like rumblings that Maxi Kleba might be healthy and shoot some threes and all that. There's, there's an argument to be made that should, should Smart or Laravia start over Austin Reeves and, and sort of diversify the stagger the offensive creators. Get a little more defense in there. We'll see. I don't know, it's. That feels like a big ask. Connect is still here. Bronny James, is that a good summer league? It's a good team. It's a good team. You know, it's just, it's, it's hard. Even with Luka in shape, even with Luka being a first team all NBA player. We've seen this dude just carry teams deep into the playoffs deeper than you expect him to get twice a conference finals and a finals. It does. That top three is so goddamn good. The, the idea that they could beat two of those teams in seven game series with a 41 year old as their second best player. It just feels like. It feels like a lot to me. Subtopic on the Lakers. This was one of my favorite stories of the summer. I. I even texted Bill, like, this is. This is a funny one. This was an ESPN story. After Lucas signed his extension, which was like the least. The most. The most anticlimactic extension ever. We all knew it was coming. James congratulated Doncic on the deal with a video call. Sources familiar with the exchange confirmed to ESPN after the contract was signed and before Doncic participated in a news conference at the Lakers practice facility Saturday. James was not among the half dozen teammates to attend the news conference or the group trip from LA to Las Vegas on Saturday night to attend the Backstreet Boys concert at the Sphere, of course, but the call continued to support. James has shown for Doncic since the Lakers shocked the basketball world by trading for blah, blah, blah. I love that this. This. First of all, this is like the ultimate. I'm not mad. I'm not mad. Don't report that I'm mad about anything. Don't report that I'm mad. I'm happy. Everything's great. I wasn't at the news conference, but I did this other thing and I texted it to him before the news conference. I just love that we've reached a point where something as vanilla as a text message or a video call, I guess it's a video call has to be not only ripped. Like, we have to report this. Like, someone leaked this. Like, you got to report this. Like, you got to report that this video call happened, man. It's a big deal. Can you report it? And you can report specifically the timing of it was after the contract was signed but before the news conference that LeBron wasn't at. Can you get that in there? Like, we got to report it, but you have to say, sources familiar with the exchange. We can't go on record. Can't go on record about it. It's too sensitive. It's too sensitive. It has to be anonymous. But put it out there for us. Like, you could just post a video call. Post it. Post a tweet, say, congratulations, Luca. Hope you read my text or got my video call, whatever. Sources familiar with the matter. This is like Watergate. Sources familiar with the matter. Did you verify with five anonymous sources that LeBron sent a video call? My God. Item number seven. Speaking of LeBron. Stop. Stop disparaging the 2020 title in the bubble. And I don't think a lot of people are doing this, but the athletic wrote this Whole five year anniversary of the bubble thing. And the number one thing people remembered about it was that Daryl Morey said, had the Rockets won the title, I absolutely would have celebrated it as legitimate, knowing the immense effort and resilience required. Yet everyone, everyone I speak to around the league privately agrees that it doesn't truly hold up as a genuine championship. Okay, stop, stop. And then he says the champion will forever be marked by an asterisk. Just all of this has to stop. If any other team and any other superstar had won that title, there would be none of this crap about, well, you know, they got four months off or whatever it was. And that's big for LeBron, who's older and AD who's always dealing with injuries. Oh, they didn't have air travel. That's better for older teams, blah, blah, blah. Every team went there under the same circumstances. Every team same challenges, same circumstances, same hotels, same travel circumstances. One team won. And yet we continue to hear this from, like everyone I speak to. I gotta say, like, I don't have a lot of conversations with people about the 2020 title. I think it's totally legit. It's different. That kind of makes it cool to me. It's a real title. Stop disparaging it, everybody. It's a real title. Item number eight, John Wall retired. So did Jeremy Lin, by the way. I, I, I, I need a little bit more time to wrap my brain around that one. John Wall retired. It's a hard, it's, it's an interesting one to think about because his career feels both incomplete and disappointing. Some of his own making, I think, in terms of his commitment on and off the floor to maximizing his skill set and broadening his skill set. And yet five straight all star appearances, one all NBA third team, one all NBA defense. That should have been more. And I don't need to remind Washington fans that between 1982 and 2014, I believe if my math is right, that's 32 years. They won one playoff series. And people tend to laugh at the John Wall, Brad Beal years because there were this sort of like unfulfilled, cute, plucky team that could never get over the hump. And were they really that good? And the east sucked. And like all of that stuff is semi fair. They had really nice playoff performances against the Bulls. The Tibbs Bulls blitzed them. The Raptors, they nearly got the coach fired and got everyone traded. They destroyed the Raptors. They played the Pacers tough. They played the 60 win Hawks really tough. 2, 2 before John Wall got injured. They made the conference semis the next year against Boston, or in 2017 rather against Boston, took that team to seven. Like there was a legitimate. You talk to people with that 60 win Hawks team, by the way. There was like a legitimate. The Wah Beal thing is difficult to deal with. Like it's not any, it's not a walk in the park. They're good, they're kind of scary. They both had their moments in the playoffs where they raised their games, made big shots, had big moments. Like that was not easy to beat those teams. And it's not their fault, it's not John Wall's fault that the Wizards utterly failed to build anything sustainable around them by just throwing money at guys like Yini Yamahini, drafting Jan Vesely with the next highest draft pick that they had other than the Otto Porter pick, and then just trading one first after another after another for like guys who were just okay, like they built an okay team, but none of it was sustainable. And then it collapsed and it collapsed because John Wall's health collapsed and it collapsed fast. He was like 27 years old when his knees really started to give out. And it's tempting to sort of lamb based him. I mean people lambasted him from day one when he did the Dougie for not working on the aspects of his game that would have made him a more complete and perhaps lasting player, becoming a better shooter, committing more to defense. By the end in Washington, he just wasn't the same guy physically because the injuries had chipped away at it. And I look at it both ways. I do think he could have worked more on that stuff. But also the collapse of his body sort of robbed him of those late career, late prime. Like 30, 31 years where players do tend to round athletics, super athletic players tend to do round out their games a little bit more to last. And we never got to see him. And I, I will say this like that dude in his prime was a wildly underrated passer. People fell in love with the speed and the speed was incredible. The chase down blocks, the lefty dunks, all that stuff. John Wall was a legit great passer, one of the all time great producers of corner threes. He used no looks, no look passes is a really smart weapon. Like he would look at the roller, suck you in on the pick and roll, suck to help defender, and then kick to the corner shooter. Or he'd do the reverse, he'd look at the shooter and get Marcin Gortat a dunk. He was a really, really heady passer and underrated in that sense. And I loved watching peak John Wall play like that dude was a thrill, a blur. And those teams are fun. Yeah, they always kind of talk trash at the Cavs. And LeBron is scared of us. And LeBron was never scared of them. Them, LeBron was never scared of them. But they were a fun team. And it just sucks how John Wall's career ended. The Jeremy Lynn one. I mean, we'll never see a story like that again. Ever. Like that. That's not even, that's not even a movie. That's beyond a movie to go from Harvard unknown G league couch to all of a sudden the dudes averaging like 30 a game for two weeks and draining game winners and becoming the biggest star in the world. And yeah, after that he kind of faded away a little bit. Injuries chipped away. Remember there was the whole hide and seek game with the Rockets trying to find him, find the Knicks to submit an offer sheet. And the Knicks were like hiding in Las Vegas trying to not get the offer sheet served. He built a solid. People will tell you like casual fans are not casual fans. I hate that term. Regular humans who don't live and breathe the NBA on a day to day basis would be like, man, whatever happened to Jeremy Lin? Kind of a disappointment, huh? And I'll be like, dude, that guy made like a really solid NBA career for himself and overseas. He's been balling out. Apparently. I haven't been paying attention. Made a really solid NBA career out of himself, which was a 1% of 1% outcome before any of it started. So hats off to Jeremy Lin. Item number nine, maybe the most interesting item on the list here. The Trae Young stalemate in Atlanta, where Trey Young has kind of tweeted some asides indicating disappointment that the Hawks have not offered him a contract extension. He is entering the last year guaranteed year of his contract. He has a 49 million dollar player option for 26. 27. Trae Young is square in the middle of his prime for team play in tournament as they have been since their conference finals run in 2021. Trey is, let me look here he is about to turn 27 in two and a half weeks. Happy early birthday, Trey. No extension. On the one hand, you know, it's, it's a little bit of a risk, right? Because I read off earlier those teams that have their, that Bobby's outlined like there's going to be more cap space next summer. There's going to be more teams that have a chance to Trade to chase Trey Young in free agency. And I think again I mentioned the Bulls, depending on the Giddy situation and the White situation, Kobe White and Josh Giddey, and if the Bulls have both of them on their team in the medium term and decide that's kind of enough of a hybrid ball handler, maybe that takes him out of the market. I don't think Washington's going to be ready for Trae Young. I can't see Utah being super ready for Trae Young unless this season goes differently than I think. By the way, Utah finish Lowry market in team Finland. Lowry market and oh my God, he's back. And if that guy shows up in Utah for the first few months of the season, I've already said, like Dave Sexton gone, Collins gone, Clarkson gone. The writing's on the wall. If that dude rebuilds his trade value because he's got a big contract over a lot of years, he is the most interesting trade candidate in the NBA in three, four months. If, if this continues and if Utah loses as much as I would expect them to lose, but Chicago and Trey Young, that's an interesting potential match. I'm just making that up out of full cloth. It may not end up being again if Giddy and Kobe White may not end up making sense, but there is that risk. On the other hand, I kind of like the way the Hawks are playing this because I think they're justified in saying we got to extend Dyson Daniels. We have Jalen Johnson making a lot of money. We splurged on Alexander Walker. Okongwu looks like a long term piece rise. Sachet is the number one pick, makes a lot of money. Gotta be a little careful, Trey. I know you're the guy. I just did the Trey ice thing. Icy cold, freezing thing. For people who are not watching on.
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YouTube.
- [39:40]
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I know you're the toast of the town. You're the franchise draw. Everybody loves having you around. Made a lot of big shots for us. Conference finals, we think, you know, given the way salaries are going, $60 million or whatever it's going to be to you down the line at the end of this theoretical max deal. I don't know if we're ready to do that. Like, you got to show us a little bit more defensively, a little more fight. Did it last year, let's see it again this year. And we have this interesting team of, of guys who are capable of doing stuff with the ball and, or on the move as cutters and then quick hit passers. Jalen Johnson, I think Rissohe is going to be that kind of player. Alexander Walker can do a lot of that. Canard, I think becomes a stagger guy with Trey Young. So I'm not sure how much he really plays with Trey Young. And then you have this interesting combination of big men and a congu and Porzingis who starts can they play together. I. I know Quinn Snyder for sure envisions a much more dynamic and varied offense than Trey. Endless Trey pick and rolls with a roll guy who can dunk and that guy's gone clinkapella. Congo can be that guy a little bit. Porzingis is more of a pop guy. And I've said this stat before, it's one of my favorite stats. Trae Young set more ball screens last year. In one year set them than he did in his entire career combined before that. Now that's a low bar. That's a low bar, but it's a bar nonetheless that he jumped and he jumped it by a lot. Let's. Let's veer even more in that direction. Not. Not like Steph Curry kind of stuff. You're not gonna be Steph Curry. Everyone wanted you to be Steph Curry. It's not gonna happen. You're not gonna be running around all the time off the ball, setting screens all over the place. It's not you. That's cool. A little bit more of that mixed with more Jalen Johnson growth from recessey. Like there's an interesting dynamic, fast pace. That's another thing Trey really bought into last year. Pushing the pace and hit aheads. Trusting a guy like Jalen Johnson who's a monster in transition to keep the offense going and finish before Trey maybe even crosses half court. More of that and let's revisit it in the offseason because yeah, some of these teams off cap space and yeah, you're not restricted. So we, we. There is some risk. But I think the Hawks are also right that incumbent teams have an advantage in unrestricted free agency too. If that's the way it goes. If trade declines is option to enter unrestricted free agency. They can offer more years, a little bit more money, and I think that matters too. That said, you know, Luka signed the three plus one with the Lakers. I, I just, I, I like this team. I like Trey with this team. I think they've built like a good Trey Young team. A lot of bulwarks for him defensively and I do wonder if there's like a last minute. The years scare us. The money maybe scares us a little bit. But the years are, you know, with all these big contracts like the years are, are enormous and the year's money combo is enormous. Is there a short compromise that works for everybody and keeps this team together? Because let's just say Trey walks. Let's say worst case scenario, Trey walks. You don't sign and trade them, you don't get anything in return. Trey young franchise player walks. Worst case scenario. I don't necessarily expect that to happen, but you put that scenario in play. If there's no extension and he declines his option, what are you left with? Well, you're left with some good young players, Ricochet and Johnson in particular, Daniels in particular. We'll see what Mogue develops into. You're left with some good draft assets. They you know the Hawks will get the most favorable of the Bucks and Pelicans picks this season. All my Giannis stuff earlier should have mentioned that the Bucks being good, decent and Giannis in theory being in in theory and I think more likely in practice because an in season trade is, is very difficult. Being there all year is bad for the Hawks dreams of having two bites at the lottery apple but they have the most favorable and I don't think New Orleans is making a playoffs this year and then in 2027 they get the second most favorable of New Orleans or Milwaukee. That could be interesting too. And so they have stuff they have other picks coming in, another pick going out to the spurs and they have Risa, Shea and Johnson and all this like there's something there but there's no sun in the solar system that's left over in an entree young world and maybe that maybe that sun is a lucky lottery ball again that vaults them to the top in a draft that's really going to be loaded this next coming year. Maybe that ends up being the sun. You're like all right, be well ever. We're good Trey. We're like we're, we're good. Moving on. I just think there's some risk there. I think it's going to be interesting. Couple other quick oh and about the cap space thing with Trey, like there hasn't been a big robust trade market for him either in the last couple years and I think if there had been there's some chance that he wouldn't be on the Hawks now. So that impacts free agency too. Like is how robust how many like max offers are really going to be there A couple other things. Omax Prosper Dallas stretched. That's always depressing when you do that to a first round pick. He's got some potential. He's big. He's big potential defensively and on the board. So he's kind of a beast in transition. Just hasn't shot the ball. Someone should give him at least a two way PJ Washington extension could be on deck. That's an interesting negotiation too like Dallas, I mean Dallas, you know I've seen a lot of like I think Stephen A pick Dallas to make the finals if, if he said if Kyrie's healthy and ad's healthy. I just think that if is not realistic for this year with Kyrie coming back from major injury and if he does come back is he going to be 100% but they have an interesting, they have an interesting team that could definitely butt into that like Lakers, Wolves, Clippers area. If all things go well this year and particularly I think they're more playing for next season. And the last thing is the Blazers and the Celtics sales are done good for stability in both markets, particularly Portland. The price was pretty big. Keep an eye on Anthony Simons in Boston. And I think with that we've covered pretty much everything that happened while I was away. That's not nothing. I know it feels like nothing. But the NBA, there's always something and we've had September trades. You know last year Towns Randall trade happened in September. Donovan Mitchell trade happened in late August. When it happened, you never know. Might have something more interesting to talk about in the next couple weeks. We'll see. Certainly these extensions and these restricted free agents guys are going to give us stuff to talk about. And with that basketball talk over Mets talk baseball talk on deck with Sean Fennessy on Mets corner. Olivia loves a challenge. It's why she lifts heavy weights and likes complicated recipes. But for booking her trip to Paris.
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Olivia chose the easy way with Expedia.
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She bundled her flight with a hotel to save more.
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Of course she still climbed all 674.
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Steps to the top of the Eiffel Tower. You were made to take the easy route. We were made to easily package your trip. Expedia made to travel flight inclusive packages are atoll protected. It's time. Mets corner Sean Fenasey. How are you?
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What's up brother? Good to be back. Good to see you. How was your summer?
- [47:00]
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Oh, I went on vacation and the Mets could not win a baseball game like the entire time. Um, my daughter and I made up a dance to do every time that we woke up in the morning because we were six hours ahead and checked the score and the Mets won. We did it on the first day and then for like two weeks we didn't do it again. They lost 14 out of 16 in crazy. Every, every game was like a one run loss. Lindor made an error, there was a pitch clock violation. At some point. Marte got thrown out at home. What a bizarre team. And then they rebounded again and then they slumped again. And Ryan Helsley forgot how to pitch. It might be tipping his pitches. And the offense is unbelievable all of a sudden. Turns out Juan Soto is like amazing, like we all thought. And now none of the pitchers other than the prospects can get out of the fourth fucking inning of any game. Excuse my language. It's been a long month and yet here we are. 74 and 64 beat the Tigers yesterday, so hit a grand slam, 90 something percent chance of making the playoffs as the last wild card team. Sean Fennesee. I don't know anything about baseball, okay? This is my first year of dipping my toe back in. All I know is this Vientos, he's back, okay? If Vientos is back and Beatty is good and Mullins is serviceable and Alvarez is healthy and can stop having various hands and fingers and thumbs broken, that dude can mash. This lineup is like suddenly one to nine pretty good. And if that could click into place and the starting pitching could be like what it was at some point in the season and the bullpen could not be a tire fire. There's like an actual you could talk me into like this team goes on another run for a couple of weeks. It just doesn't seem like all of that is going to happen. And the starting pitching, other than McClain and we'll see what Tong does in his next start, has been just like a disaster. What is this team? I don't understand what's going on.
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I think you summed it up. They are mediocre. This is the sign of a mediocre, maybe slightly above average baseball team. They're inconsistent, they flash, they have a ton of talent. They seem like they should be better than they are and yet they're not. They lose to bad teams. They sometimes be good teams, but not always. And they're incredibly frustrating to watch. And yet when you look at what somebody like Juan Soto has been doing for the last 25, 30 days, you could see a team that goes on, that Guy's back for six or eight weeks. And if that can happen, and these 23 year old starters who have barely pitched more than 500 innings in their career are what they seem like they are, I don't know, maybe. Maybe this is something. It was a really tough month. It was not a good month for you and I to be on vacation, to have idle time, to watch games, to be honest with you. And the first half of the month, I had a lot of time to watch games, and it was infuriating. It got a little bit better in the second half, but I can't say I'm feeling very good. I will gloat a little bit, which is at the beginning of this season. I said I thought this was an 86 win team and that their approach to starting pitching this year wasn't. I don't know if it was an error per se, but it was a band aid on a bullet hole. And the idea was, let's get to 26 so that these prospects can come up and take over this rotation. And that's more or less what has happened. You know, a lot of the arms especially, I'm sure we'll talk about Kodai Senga and Sean Mania have not carried them in the way that they had hoped that they would. And so they find themselves in a situation where they might actually just be an 86 win final wild card team, which is not a bad outcome, but it's not a good outcome either.
- [50:36]
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Yeah, it was really interesting at the trade deadline, which was right before I left, that they went all in on relievers and the center fielder and not at starters at all. They were supposedly looking at the El Contro from the Marlins who pitched well against them the other day. And I remember feeling like I thought this. We talked about it. Like, it felt rickety, like, is this a real. Is this rotation really this good? And Peterson has slumped a little bit. I can't give him anything but credit. That dude has been like the lone consistent starter the entire year. Senga hasn't been the same guy since he got injured. Clay Holmes is like, maybe he's good, maybe he's not. Manaya, it's the same start every time. He is awesome for four innings and then can't get an out in the fifth inning. And, you know. But the offense has picked up. Lindor's back. Lindor's had a good month after a really bad month. And Soto is unbelievable. And the lineup is like, again, Alvarez out. That looked real to me. Like, that guy can really hit if he's a good hitting catcher. And Mullins is just like, okay, Beatty's your guy. Beatty's been pretty good. Vientos has been on fire. Like, that's a legit. That's a legit like they can score runs.
- [51:38]
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Yeah, the offense hasn't been the problem for a month. For the first time in a long time, they're hitting with runners in scoring position. They seem dangerous one through nine. A lot of the guys who have been touted prospects who've been up and down have more or less been consistent over the last six weeks. Alvarez, obviously, the issue with him is that he can't stay healthy. And it's not that he has a bad knee, it's that freak things keep happening to him. You know, just as he's trying to rehab back from a thumb injury on a bad slide, he gets hit on the other hand and breaks a finger. I mean, this is the kind of bad luck stuff that happens in these kind of cursed seasons. I don't know if this is a truly cursed season. They basically had Lindor, Alonso, Soto, Nimmo healthy all year. And so they may look back and see this as a somewhat squandered opportunity where their core is in their prime. We talked about that a little bit over the last few months, but it really just boils down to the fact that this is a team that does not have a pitcher that you really feel like heading into the playoffs can help you dominate. You know, the Phillies just lost Zach Wheeler, and Zach Wheeler has been that guy for the Phillies for the last five seasons. He has been not just the, you know, the losing streak stopper, but somebody who, heading into game one of a first round series, you're like, well, we're going to be 10 in this series, and the Mets just don't have that. Now. Nolan McClain does sort of look like one of those guys who's going to be that. It just seems like a lot to ask for this cowboy, this kid to be able to be that for real in his very first season. But I don't know, crazier things have happened.
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I'm too scarred by Generation K to get excited about. I mean, I'm excited, I'm excited, but like, for Generation K, like, Paul Wilson came up first two starts. Unbelievable. And I'm like, this guy's going to win 250 games. This is the greatest thing that's ever. After the Mets, Bill Pulsifer is. And I'm too scarred now. And my. I have a good friend Tim, who's a Cubs fan, and he sent me a photo of Mark Pryor and he was like, you should. You should be. You should be scarred. You should be. I'm still scarred by this. But he's been unbelievable. Tong looked Good. But the other guys, it's like if Clay Holmes is pitching in the sixth inning, I'm like, wow, what a day. Six innings for Clay Holmes. Manaya, forget it. I get, you know, Senga has been whatever, but. But the decision they made, it seemed from a, from a neophyte point of view at the trade deadline was okay. The starters are what they are. We can't really find like a game changer in that regard. We're going to build our team to win inning 6, 7, 8 and 9 with our bullpen. And that has gone up in flames. And Helsley, it's been good to feel some hate as a sports fan. It's been a while since I've felt some straight up, yes, fire this fucking guy into the sun.
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Let it flow through you. You know, like the emperor once said.
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In Star wars, are they still playing Hell's Bells for him? Because they should mothball that. No, no, no, no, no, no.
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I know.
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You need throw a. How about throw a scoreless inning before you get a freaking pyro WWE entry to a song that belongs to Trevor Hoffman, who I think is still the all time saves leader. Did somebody pass him? I don't know.
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That's right. Yeah, I think so.
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So. No, you don't get. I know your name is Hells. It's a clever pun. You don't get that. And you don't get to do it at Citi Field when you can't get anybody out and you might be tipping your pitches. And I don't want to hear like, well, 100 miles an hour. I should be doing better than that. You're not. Get some people out. Okay. I had a friend, my friend David texted me. He's a huge Mets fan. He said he should start coming out to. Oops. I did it again. And I think that was. That was a good joke. That would be funny.
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That's very funny. Here's the thing. There was some underlying data that indicated maybe Ryan Helsley was cooked, but I never thought it would be this bad. This is.
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I don't. This is the first time hearing about this data. I'm now upset. Well, upsetting me.
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His fastball was more vulnerable than it had been in the past. I believe it was. Lefties were hitting him at an extraordinary rate and they had not in the past. And that 100 mile an hour fastball with that off speed stuff just has not been effective. You know, the talk is that he's tipping pitches, but they've been saying that for two weeks and they have not been able to fix the problem.
- [55:46]
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So maybe he should try tipping his pitches on purpose.
- [55:50]
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Yeah, it's on purpose. Honestly, not a bad idea.
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Curveball coming.
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Well, this is something also that Frankie Montas said. The legendary Frankie Montas, who we'll never see again in the Mets uniform. But after his first start, when he got bombed out in July, they also he said to the reporters after that first start, I think I was tipping my pitches. So everything's going to be good now. We figured it out. It's all sorted out. And now he's gone. He has a UCL injury. And that two years and $35 million we'll never see again. So I don't know. You know, the Mets are lauded for their incredible pitching lab and Jeremy Hefner, their longtime pitching coach, is considered one of the very best in the game. But he has not been able to solve this problem. And so you go down the list. David Peterson has had a good season, but he's in the midst of a major aggression and had an awful start over the weekend against the Marlins of all teams. Sean Mania has not been able to effectively come back from an elbow injury and has loose bodies in his elbow, which is not something you ever want. You don't want to have a loose anything inside your body, I don't think, but especially not another body. Kodai Senga, we may look back at his calf strain induced by a bad Pete Alonso throw.
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I hated it. That's why.
- [56:57]
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Because he was having a borderline Cy Young season before that, and he has been a shell of himself since he came back from that injury. And so those were really the big three for this team. And those guys have all underperformed in the last month. And so this is a team that probably should have gone something like 17 and 12 or 18 and 11 in August. And they went 12 and 17. And that's going to keep them from being in that top wild card spot. It's clearly kept them from competing with the Phillies. Who, you know, you. I hope you saw some of that Phillies series. This I did.
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It was a great time because that.
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Is the team that we saw in the playoffs last year. That is the team that was not afraid of the team with a better record, not afraid of the bullies and Kyle Schwaber and Bryce Harper. And that was the team that Steve Cohen bought. And I love that team. We love that team. I want those guys to come back and all of a sudden they're on the diamond against the team in a Marlins uniform and they look Like a freaking disaster. So I don't know what to make of this right now. It's really confusing.
- [57:59]
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The game that really pissed me off was when they were down 82 against the Marlins, came back to tie it at 8 and still lost the game. I'm like, can you guys just. Can we just be a normal team? So the Phillies sweep. I did see a good. A good chunk of that. It was a really fun time. And I just, you know, I guess all these sports account team accounts are like this. I wish the Mets Instagram account, which I follow and enjoy, would be like a little less gloaty. So they sweep the Phillies. I think they would that get them within five or four. Four, four. And so they post this meme from the social network, the movie of Eduardo Severin, when he. When he says to Zuckerberg, when I come back, I'm not coming for a piece of the company. I'm coming for the whole thing. Except they put a Mets cap on the. On what's the actor's name that plays him? Andrew.
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Andrew Garfield.
- [58:49]
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Yeah, they put a Mets cap on him and instead of the line, it says, I'm not coming back for the wild card. I'm coming back for the NLE. I'm like, you just went 14 and 16 in August. How about we just win tomorrow? I guess every. I guess every account is like this. And it's just like, we won. We're to going gloating. It's. Every time I'm see it, I'm like, it's. I like watching the home runs and Lindor and the little photos and stuff. Like, can we not gloat after we just lost 14 of 16 because we. Because we won a series? How about we're four games back? How about we just win another game?
- [59:19]
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It's a good point. I mean, it's the modern condition, right? Nobody can ever be in the middle. Nobody can ever be like, hey, good series win, guys. Nobody's retweeting that, right? Nobody's like, that was an awesome tweet that you said. We did a good job this series by winning against the Phillies. There always has to be some extravagant, elevated form of communication when you've got a new podcast. You don't. You don't tweet, hey, guys, hope you listen to this. If you don't, that's cool. That's not. That doesn't work.
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No.
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And so invariably, you know, in this time, we need to pretend like we had a chance at the NL east when we frankly never did.
- [59:54]
A
What, what else, what else is on your mind about the Mets? I have some things, but I want to hear what, what's on your mind.
- [60:00]
B
You know, it was an interesting month for Pete Alonso and people may not realize we might be looking at the last two months of Pete Alonso fandom that we have. And we need to start thinking about this because the first half of the month he played very poorly and he did not hit and they lost a lot of games. And they relied on him through the first four months of the season to do the things that no one else in the lineup could do. And once he stopped doing those things in early August, that was the lowest I felt about the Mets in a long time. They seem to be really spiraling in a profound way. Even worse than that June swoon, I think. And he has come back a little bit because the offense has been so dynamic in the last two weeks. But, you know, all of a sudden, Juan Soto is the offensive hub of this team. After feeling like he had been a massive disappointment, Soto is starting to get big hits. You know, he's getting game tying and game change, lead tying hits.
- [60:55]
A
Did Juan Solo catch on at all? Apparently on wfan they were calling Juan Solo.
- [61:00]
B
No.
- [61:00]
A
Yeah.
- [61:00]
B
Evan Roberts has been calling him that for over a month. And I, who could blame him? He had like 25 solo home runs this season. But I, I'm just, I'm thinking about Alonzo because he's been a big part of my life as a Mets fan since 2019. And I love him. We all love him. And I think there's a reasonable chance that he's not back. I think there's also a reasonable chance that Edwin Diaz is not back and he has an opt out at the beginning of, at the end of this season. And he has been money this year, Zach. Money.
- [61:27]
A
And I know you, I've told you, it's like, it's a weird thing for me to trust the closer. I know he came in the game yesterday. I'm like, oh, okay, we're not going to blow this one.
- [61:35]
B
I'm not saying that he is going to eradicate the history of Armando Benitez and John Franco and Jerry's familia and all of the closers who have broken our heart over the years. But if he leaves, this is already a bullpen in shambles. That's one more thing that this team will have to figure out in the off season, is maybe you have a departing first baseman, maybe you have a departing closer. You're still missing a, theoretically an ace type pitcher. And we're kind of back where we were last off season, where you got to figure out Alonzo, you got to figure out the pitching, got to figure out the bullpen, plus no Edwin Diaz. So, you know, I don't want to get too ahead of myself. We're more than likely going to make the playoffs, this team, but I'm starting to see a world where one generation is closing and another one is coming in. Carson Benge is around the corner. Jett Williams is around the corner. AJ Ewing is around the corner. Jacob Reamer is around the corner. They have a. They were named while we were gone, I saw number one farm farm system in baseball, which is super exciting, right?
- [62:36]
A
And let me tell you, as a fan in this sense, now I'm doing the thing where it's like, well, if the experts said it, it's obviously true. And it's like, it's like, clearly that's true. And like, so now I'm like, all in on the prospects. Like, well, they must be right.
- [62:52]
B
Yeah, I hope they are. You never know. Obviously, with McClain and Tong thus far, far they appear to be right. Tong, we'll see. Tong, to me, is a little bit more of a work in progress. He's still very raw. He has not pitched a lot professionally at all. McLean, he looks different.
- [63:06]
A
Is it. Is it strange that he's 24 already, or is that normal for pitching prospect timetables?
- [63:11]
B
It's fairly normal for a pitcher drafted out of college.
- [63:15]
A
I did. The stats now are unbelievable. Like, after his first start, there was someone in the game recap wrote a snippet. It was on ESPN about his whatever sweeper curveball he was using rotates X times per second, which is 25% more than, like, the number one figure. I'm like, wow, we know all this stuff now.
- [63:35]
B
Yeah, I think it's 3500 is kind of the zone where he's in, in terms of the spin rate, which is outrageous. It is, like, at the absolute top end of the sport. And I don't know, that makes me kind of nervous. When you're doing things that no one else can do, it just makes me think you're going to get hurt. So I do get a little bit nervous about those kinds of things. But it's been fun to watch him because the movement on his pitches is crazy. He looks like he's in a video game when he's pitching. So that's been exciting.
- [63:59]
A
All right, let me get back to Alonso and Diaz for a second because, like, so you Just named all these prospects that I know nothing about. Okay? Like all I know is this. You took this team right now and put a league average first baseman in Pete Alonso's place and like a league average reliever in Edwin Diaz's place. This team's dead in the freaking water.
- [64:18]
B
I agree.
- [64:19]
A
Particularly like when Lindor went through a month and a half of being and Soto was. Pete Alonso has 110 RBIs by the way. I know it's probably, it's a, it's a stat that is, is less beloved now. And like the analytics, I still love RBIs as a stat. Give me RBIs. I love RBIs. And Diaz has been unbelievable. So like the plan would be to replace them just with kids. Like that can be a plan. You just paid Juan Soto $700 million and like you're just gonna let. And also the thing that confuses me is, and maybe it's just because he's a big O fish first baseman. Like when he broke the home run record and we're going to get to that and everyone, you know, it's like 200 and whatever, 50 something home runs. Like, oh wow, I look at his size. He's only been in the league seven years. He's 30. Why are we talking about him like he's an old man? Is it just because, like, do we know that much about that skill set that at this age it declines that fast? Like he's younger than Lindor, he's played seven years.
- [65:18]
B
I think it's just a product of a post Moneyball mindset around the sport where a kind of bad bodied first baseman who slugs is not considered. Someone who ages well and their 30s are often considerably less valuable than their 20s. Who knows if Pete, Pete has defined.
- [65:35]
A
Like a three year, $150 million contract, like that's not a viable path in baseball.
- [65:41]
B
I do think that this next month and his performance in the playoffs will be relevant to what he ends up getting. He's repped by Scott Boris. And so Scott Boris goes for top dollar. And that worked out really well for us when it was Juan Soto. It may not work out so well for us with Pete Alonso. As I've told you before, I'd love to root for him for the next five years. I hope he stays. I hope he hits 400, 500 home runs with the Mets. I think that would be really exciting. They've literally never had a player come even close to that. But here's the thing. Most normal teams would probably, and by Normal, I mean, sort of like mid market teams that have a payroll in the neighborhood of 100 to $180 million would let him walk. And they would probably install some version of either teach Mark Vientos to play first base or bring up Ryan Clifford, who is the other guy who was a part of the Justin Verlander deal. Two years ago they traded one half of that deal, Drew Gilbert to the Giants. This other guy, Ryan Clifford, who's a 23 year old outfielder slash first base prospect, is going to hit 30 home runs in AAA this year. And it wasn't clear if he was going to be a real major league baseball player. And now he's starting to show signs of being a real power hitter. At least I'm not sure how complete a player he's going to be. And if you were the, if you were anywhere from the Twins to the Braves, you'd probably just call this guy up and have him split time with Vientos and see what you have in him. But they've just got so much money committed to their next two or three years that can you reasonably let Pete Alonzo walk to see if Ryan Clifford is real? I mean, I don't know if you can. I don't know if Steve Cohen wants to do that. I think Steve Cohen wants to win and he wants to win with a team that the fans love because he's a fan and we love Pete and frankly we love Diaz after a very weird arc because Diaz basically came on board the same time that Pete did. And it's been really up and down with him over the years. But this looks like the guy that we saw a few years ago and that guy is electrifying. And so both of those guys, they feel like a part of the history of the team now.
- [67:38]
A
I love Diaz. I mean I love both of them. Pete seems like a great teammate. Again, I'm doing the fan thing where I just read into everything. He's like, oh, he's always talking to people on the field and like high fiving people. He's always like pointing when someone makes a good play in the field. He's always like pointing at him like nice but dia. Just to have a guy who's reliable in the 8th and 9th inning like I can do. We need him to throw one and two thirds. Okay, we're going to have him throw one and two thirds. Like I just remember like hating the Yankees so much but having so much fear of Rivera. Not that he's going to be anything like Rivera, but like Rivera to me was, if you asked me, who is the greatest Yankee of that era, to me, it was Rivera more than Jeter. Just because, like, the game was over after seven innings. If they needed it in the playoffs, like, and you just had no shot. Like, I know there was the one Cleveland year they got him, but it was. To have a guy that great, it just, I was in awe of Mariano Rivera. He turned the baseball game in from nine innings to seven innings. And, and knowing that puts so much pressure on you. Like, if you're down four, three in the fifth and a guy's on second, you better fucking tie the game, because that guy's looming soon.
- [68:45]
B
Yeah, I, I agree with you. I don't think Diaz is in Mariano's class.
- [68:49]
A
No, no, no. I don't mean to even say that. But just to have a feeling of trust is so nice.
- [68:53]
B
I completely agree. I especially felt that this year, just like I did in 2022 when he was out of this world. And the thing that is the most exciting about that specifically is is that Diaz historically has owned the Phillies, that Kyle schwaber is like 1 for 37 or something, or like, over 37 against Diaz, he cannot see that slider. And Bryce Harper also historically has struggled against Diaz. And so with an arch rival that you're likely to see in the playoffs, having someone like that who feels like a superpower is really profound. But I don't know, man, I just can't get out of my head the odd Frankenstein structure of the club right now. The idea that there's like, this is half a team that was designed to win today, tomorrow, and in October, and half a team that is built for 20, 27. And I, I, I can't. And obviously, good teams do both things, right? They blend young talent with veteran talent. But Brett Beatty is not going to be the Brett beatty when he's 27 that he is right now. He's still kind of figuring things out. We've watched him figure things out this year, and it's been really exciting. It took Barc Vientos to go through a sophomore slump to figure out his swing again. You know, I really am incredibly high on the young pitching talent that they have. I really do think Francisco Alvarez could be a top 10 catcher in major League Baseball, just not this year. And so it just, it leaves me feeling a little bit awkward about how I've spent so much of my summer watching a team that I know is good and not great and probably can't be great. Am I sort of semi jinxing on purpose. Yes. I'm trying to reverse jinx as hard as I can.
- [70:36]
A
I'm hearing, I'm hearing the NBA phrase two timelines. Like the warriors two timelines. It's hard to do. Okay, Chris Russo. I love Chris Russo. Doggy love doggy. Grew up driving around listening to Mike and the Mad Dog, extending drives, meandering because I love listening to him so much. And Mad Dog was my guy because he hated the Yankees and would just go on these crazy anti Yankee rants to offset Frances homerism. And the rage was so real. The rage slash envy. Before the his Giants started winning World Series was so visceral and the tension was so real that I loved him. And so I really hated, and I mean hated how he made fun of the Mets for celebrating Pete Alonso breaking Daryl Strawberry's all time home run record in just a classic first take. He's on first take. So he's on video just screaming like, are you kidding me? 254 home run. This isn't Ruth. This isn't Derek. How are you celebrating this? This is embarrassing. This is us. This is not the Yankees. This is 500 home runs. 254 home runs. And it's like, dude, it's the freaking Mets. They came in 1962. We don't have a lot. It's a big deal to be number one in any franchise in home runs. And of course the little, the little peanut gallery that's always there is laughing like it's the funniest goddamn thing anyone has ever said in their lives. And clapping like, oh, and I know that it's just tv. It's. They're doing a segment for the sake of just having fun. But it may again, like as a fan, I'm like, I think it's a big deal. Sorry. I think it's a bill. Sorry. We're not the Yankees and we haven't been around since the 20s when there were, you know, whatever. And I don't know, it's just. I just. It this. It wasn't the spirit of Mad Dog that I remembered. The spirit of Mad Dog that I remembered would have been empathetic to the little guy in New York City and not making fun of us for celebrating a home run record.
- [72:46]
B
I have so many thoughts. One, don't get aggregated. Zach, you know, Zach Lowe rips first take on podcast. Be careful to doggy. You know, he's not doing the thing he used to do. The thing he used to do was he was performing against Mike and for Mike when You're on espn. It's a different sort of expectation. He might have unleashed that bit on Mike and the Mad Dog, but probably not in the same way because he was then speaking to New Yorkers and New Yorkers knew that for the Mets, what Pete has done matters to us. Is it sad that it matters? It is sad. It is sad that the home run record is 253 home runs.
- [73:25]
A
That's sad.
- [73:25]
B
That's fucking sad.
- [73:26]
A
I can admit that.
- [73:27]
B
Yeah, but we know it's sad and we're, we're, we're self aware fans. So let us have this moment. And he would have done.
- [73:32]
A
Truthfully, the guy should be Piazza, but he was just a mid career acquisition. There's a lot of home runs that he hit for the Dodgers.
- [73:40]
B
Yeah, I mean, think about who's, you know, he broke Straw's record and obviously Strawberry was the guy who should have been our.500 home run hitter. He should have been our hall of Famer. You know, it's a very sad story and there's a variety of reasons why it didn't happen. But the fact that he did pass Straw and that Straw was there and congratulated Pete and was magnanimous about it, that was also nice and cool and part of why we enjoyed it. Very interesting summer for Mad Dog. He plays a very small part in the new thriller Caught Stealing. Are you familiar with this movie, the Austin Butler?
- [74:08]
A
I saw a trailer for it with Austin Butler, I think his name is.
- [74:11]
B
So Austin Butler plays a former baseball prospect who has been in a car accident and whose life is sort of ruined. He grew up in California as a Giants fan and moves to New York to start a new life as a bartender and gets into some trouble. That's the framework for the movie. And Mike and the Mad Dog make a little appearance because it's a 1990s period piece set in New York. And so we hear them talking about the Mets and the Giants in a pennant race in, I want to say, is it 1998, I think is the year that the movie is set in. And so it's been a hell of a summer for Dog. You know, he's the star of a major motion picture. At least his voices. He's tearing the Mets apart just like he did in the 1990s every freaking week on the radio and he's now been eviscerated by Zach Lowe on this podcast.
- [74:54]
A
No, no, just, just, just, just remember that I led off with I drove around aimlessly because I love listening to him so much.
- [75:00]
B
I do too. He's the best. He's the best. He's the best.
- [75:05]
A
All right, well, any concluding thoughts here? I mean we got the Tigers and the Reds. The Reds thankfully have. The Dodgers did us a favor by sweeping the Reds out of. Not quite out, but way back of the Mets. There was a, it got a little scary for, for a couple weeks, for like a week there.
- [75:20]
B
Well, we're going to see them play each other and we're going to see. I mean there is a world where Red sweep Mets in tailspin is a headline that we see a week from now and that's in play. I'm not saying that's going to happen. The Mets are a better team than the Reds on paper. But if that happens, I suspect we'll need an emergency conversation like this to, to rend our garments because if they miss the playoffs, that's three months of back page drama coming. That's a real four alarm fire for Steve Cohen and David Stearns. And there's a. There's a huge part of the fan base. I don't know about a huge part. There's a part of the fan base that does not like David Stearns and does not like his approach to this team and has been frustrated by the way he has conserv the bullpen and the starting staff for the last two years. That's going to get a lot louder if they fall out now, if they stay in. I agree with what you said at the top. There's a world where I don't know they could beat the Dodgers in a first round series. They clearly could beat the Phillies. They've done it before. They've clearly can beat the Brewers. They've done it before in a playoff series. It's not out of the realm of possibility that they just get super hot because their lineup is scary when it's clicking. But I still think they're an 86 win team with a first round exit. I thought that's what they were four months ago, five months ago. I still think that's what they are. What do you think? What do you think is going to happen?
- [76:35]
A
I mean everything would suggest that they'll be the last wild card team and they go into then a one game playoff with somebody. Is that how it works or is it best of three? I don't even know how best of three. I mean they've just given us no reason to believe that they are consistent enough, particularly with the pitching to make a real run. So I would say they'll, they'll either lose that best of three or lose the first series they played after that, if they're lucky enough to win that. The other thing is, like, why are they, like, they're so much better at home than on the road. And I realize that's every team in every sport, but, like, if you're a good team, it should. You just should not be, like, miserably bad on the road against, like, the Nationals. Now. They beat the Tigers yesterday. Maybe that changes. But it's like, come on.
- [77:15]
B
It's just inconsistent, man. Just inconsistent. Not like you. You're the most consistent. You're back. You're back. The Zach Lowe show is back. Hoops is almost back. You excited?
- [77:26]
A
Yeah, I'm excited. And I will say, like, this is. This is very. Still very fun for me being back with the Mets, and it's in it, and I will. And the novelty has not worn off for my daughter. If anything, it's getting more intense. Like, we're going to Old Timers day on the 13th, and every day she's like, how many days until. Until Old Timers Day? Where are our seats? How many days? And she's just very. She's. And she'll watch like, six straight innings of a game. So that's been very special for me.
- [77:54]
B
Well, I will be in New York for roughly 10 days at the beginning of October. It's the New York Film Festival. I come every year, and it usually overlaps with playoff baseball. Now, last year, I'm not afraid to tell you that I skipped at least three screenings to stay in my hotel room watching Mets playoff games by myself because of how nervous I was about those games. One of those games was the Pete Alonso brewers home run in the top of the top of the ninth inning. If I come this year, we're going to a playoff game.
- [78:24]
A
Oh, I mean, knock on wood, it would be tremendous. And what do you got? You got big. I realize you, you, you. You tweeted out the entire big picture lineup that's coming up. Both of us read Vineland over the summer in preparation for one battle after.
- [78:38]
B
Another and hopefully seeing it very soon.
- [78:40]
A
Yeah. What else, what else we got lined up? Anything else to promote?
- [78:44]
B
I mean, this, the. The PTA movie is the centerpiece of the fall, and I'm very, very excited. I just came back from the Telluride Film Festival, so we got an episode coming about that tomorrow about my journey there. And my co host, Amanda went to the Venice Film Festival. So we both go to the festivals, we come back, we talk about what are the big movies. What are the movies that are going to be in the Oscar race for the next six months, so on and so forth. So it's going to be a busy fall for Mets fans, hopefully. For movie fans, definitely.
- [79:09]
A
All right. I'll see you soon, bud. Maybe here, maybe in la. We'll see. Thanks. Sound fantastic, everybody. Mets corner. Let's go, Mets. All right, that's it for the Zach Lowe show today. We'll come back later this week. We're coming right back. Two episodes a week. NBA is right around the corner. Thanks to Jesse, thanks to Victoria, thanks to Cerutty on production. We'll see you later. Thanks for listening. Thanks for watching.