The Zach Lowe Show (The Ringer)

Episode: "One Question for Each NBA Cup Team. Plus, Giannis Thoughts and All-Star Picks with Tim Legler"
Date: December 8, 2025
Host: Zach Lowe
Guest: Tim Legler (ESPN)

Episode Overview

On this jam-packed episode, Zach Lowe and Tim Legler break down the NBA Cup quarterfinals by asking one big question for each team, dive into the implications of Franz Wagner’s injury for the Magic, debate hypothetical Giannis Antetokounmpo trades, assess the state of the Cleveland Cavaliers, and pick their All-Star teams under the new U.S./International split format. The episode is filled with analysis of young stars, coaching decisions, trade rumors, and the ever-widening gap among contenders.

Tone: Analytical, humorous, NBA nerd-friendly, unfiltered basketball banter

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. NBA Cup Quarterfinals: Big Questions for Every Team

Orlando Magic: What Now After the Franz Wagner Injury?

• Wagner’s MRI awaited, potential for significant time missed.
  • Zach: "If it is bad, bad, like if he's out for the season, I think a team that could have made the finals potentially... can no longer make the finals." (04:04)
• Can Paolo Banchero carry the team solo? How does Banchero fit into the Magic’s successful recent “three-guard + power forward” lineups?
  • Legler: "We're going to have to find out: Is Paolo Banchero a franchise-carrying winning player?" (05:04)
• Stat to watch: Bane, Suggs, and Black three-guard trio: +54 in just 53 minutes together.

Toronto Raptors: Can Brandon Ingram Stay Healthy Enough?

• Surprise over their strong start; have slid back, now slumping.
  • Legler: “Is Brandon Ingram going to be upright all year...his track record says at some point something's going to happen.” (12:38)
• Concern over reliance on Ingram for half-court offense; doubts about sustaining a top-six seed without him.
• Toronto recently 23rd on both offense and defense during a 5-of-6 losing stretch.

New York Knicks: Right to Start Josh Hart? Can They Defend Well Enough?

• Hart as starter over Mitchell Robinson for defensive versatility, faster lineups.
  • Legler: "I like it better. It gives them more versatility defensively... Josh Hart's going to give you more." (16:13)
• Are Brunson and Towns as a defensive spine good enough to get through the East?
  • Zach: “If you are going all in with this... can you defend well enough with Brunson and Towns... to win the Eastern Conference?” (17:30)
• Debate over Max Kellerman’s “You can’t win a championship with a 6ft star” — Zach doesn’t buy it, points instead to context and team fitting.
  • Zach: "I just don't buy any absolutist reasoning like that... This is their team, they have to do it." (24:43)

Miami Heat: Can the Bam Adebayo–Khalil Ware Frontcourt Truly Work?

• Some data suggest mixed results; Lowe is “cautiously optimistic.”
• Legler: "One of the reasons I say it can [work] is because of how much faith I have in their head coach." (26:47)
• Spolstra's offense more watchable and potent thanks to Norman Powell, improved pace, added shooting.

2. Big Picture: Giannis Trade Scenarios

• San Antonio, Houston, Knicks all discussed as dream Giannis landing spots.
• Spurs: Tempting to pair Wemby and Giannis, but “so healthy” as a young core, risks disrupting natural progression.
  • Legler: “There is some risk involved there... What they have right now is so healthy.” (46:32)
• Houston: Immediate push required with Durant on roster, would have to give up Sengun or Amen Thompson in a trade.
• Zach and Legler agree Sengun is the more “tradeable” asset, but parting with Amen would be terrifying.
  • Legler: "I would be terrified to trade Amen Thompson. Absolutely terrified." (42:18)
• The extension deadline and Giannis’ ability to leverage his destination are central to any deal.
• Also discussed: Would you go “all-in” to beat OKC now, or wait for their possible regression?

3. Western Conference Questions

San Antonio Spurs: How Ready is Wemby for Playoff Dominance?

• Can he physically handle a playoff race/series—that’s the big question for now.

L.A. Lakers: Defense and Conference Finals Hopes

• Are they good enough defensively to make a run?
  • Legler: “Their defense is not going to be the reason... because of the personnel, it's just not going to be.” (50:56)
• Offense led by Luka, LeBron, and Austin Reaves as their path to playoff success.
• Zach notes: Team is “built to win close games,” inflating their record via clutch performance.

Oklahoma City Thunder: All-Time Greats?

• Could this be a 70+ win team?
  • Legler: "They're chasing being not just a champion, they're chasing being an all time great team." (58:36)
• If they go 75–7 AND win the title, would they be GOAT-caliber? Both agree: Yes, but “it’s always harder than people think.”
  • Zach: “If all those things happen, they will be in the conversation for greatest single season team of all time.” (59:48)

Phoenix Suns: Is This For Real?

• Team is more competitive and plays harder than the underwhelming prior years with Booker as clear alpha.
  • Legler: "You have a little bit more admiration for them because they were just this underachievement... This is different." (64:57)
• Colin Gillespie and Jordan Goodwin duo cited as “plus-50” in 248 minutes—deep cut stat of the year.

4. Cleveland Cavaliers: Existential Crisis?

• Are injuries the only problem? Legler argues not; toughness, effort, and possibly a “playoff hangover” are major issues.
  • Legler: “I don't think they're that tough of a team and I don't think they play quite hard enough.” (70:05)
• Mobley at center isn’t making offense easier, Garland’s toe is a scary ongoing concern.
• Zach sees this season as “make-or-break” for the Cavs’ core.

5. All-Star Selections – Navigating the U.S./World Formatting

• Both draft 12-man East and West All-Star Teams (split by U.S. and International quotas).
• East:
  • Locks: Cade Cunningham, Jalen Brunson, Jalen Brown, Tyrese Maxey, Donovan Mitchell, Jalen Johnson, Karl-Anthony Towns, Bam Adebayo, Franz Wagner, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Josh Giddey.
  • Main debates: Duren vs. Mobley, Norman Powell vs. Bam, Siakam’s under-the-radar value, snubs like Scotty Barnes.
  • Legler on Duren: "It would be very difficult to not reward Duren for the year Detroit's had." (79:12)
• West:
  • Locks include: Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, Anthony Edwards, Devin Booker, Chet Holmgren, Austin Reaves, Luka Doncic, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander, Nikola Jokic, Alperen Sengun, Victor Wembanyama, Deni Avdija.
  • The last spot comes down to Devin Booker vs. Jamal Murray; also brutal snubs include Lauri Markkanen, Julius Randle, James Harden.
  • Zach (on Jamal Murray over Devin Booker): "I look at the shooting percentages, I look at the injuries to Denver's starting five... I’m putting you in. Booker is a brutal omission." (85:15)

Fun All-Star Proposal:

• Zach’s “Rodman Spot” — One extra All-Star per conference, for sub-12 PPG, above-.500 role guys (e.g. Steven Adams).“To recognize a guy in that way that’s so important…but never going to have the kind of numbers" (92:02)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Zach (on Desmond Bane’s dodgeball play): “He chucked that ball at him like I wouldn’t… That was a fastball.” (11:33)
• Legler (on Banchero): “What we’re going to find out: Is Paolo Banchero a franchise-carrying winning player?” (05:04)
• Zach (on Kellerman’s ‘you can’t win with a 6-footer’): “I just don’t buy any absolutist reasoning like that… This is their team, they have to do it.” (24:43)
• Legler (on trading Sengun or Amen for Giannis): “I would be terrified to trade Amen Thompson. Absolutely terrified.” (42:18)

Notable Timestamps

• Franz Wagner Injury & Orlando’s Outlook: 04:00–11:30
• Toronto’s Sustainability & Ingram’s Health: 12:11–15:40
• Knicks Lineup Debate & Defense Concerns: 16:13–24:50
• Miami Heat Frontcourt Fit: 26:47–29:45
• Giannis Trade Rumors & Team Fits: 35:27–48:30
• Lakers’ Defense and Contender Status: 50:56–56:10
• OKC Record Pace & Historical Comparison: 58:07–63:46
• Phoenix Suns’ “Guilty Pleasure” Status: 64:37–67:00
• Cavs’ Existential Season: 69:26–76:59
• All-Star Picks & Deep-Cut Proposals: 76:59–92:34

Summary Flow & Engagement

This episode is a high-level state-of-the-league discussion disguised as a matchup preview podcast. The tone is wonky, candid, and occasionally irreverent, as Zach and Tim blend stats, chemistry assessments, and league inside chatter. Listeners get a full survey of the current NBA landscape—from the future of the Magic to whether the Thunder can crack historic records, the dilemma of early trades for Houston or San Antonio, and how rule changes (even in All-Star selection) are reshaping the conversation.

For NBA fans, especially analytic and narrative-minded ones, this episode functions as a must-hear check-in on what matters in the league right now: injuries’ ripple effects, the myth of “unwinnable” roster formulas, and why the next month will reshape who’s in the title conversation.

For Further Listening

• Want deeper Giannis trade fits? Listen to Zach’s previous episode (Dec. 4, 2025) for a breakdown of more contenders.
• For advanced stat breakdowns and more “eyeball test” talk, check out Legler’s appearances on The Ringer NBA feed or ESPN.
• Keep an eye out for next week’s episode for All-Star selection updates and possible “Rodman spot” debate outcomes.