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- [00:00]
Zach Lowe
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. The best passers see every angle of the floor to make the perfect assist. And State Farm is no different. They know the game inside and out and look at every angle to help set you up with a plan that fits your life and budget. Get the coverage that's right for you. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state.
- [00:24]
Kurt Goldsberry
Somewhere out there is a Chevy truck
- [00:26]
Zach Lowe
and the person who drives it.
- [00:28]
Kurt Goldsberry
Well, that's a Chevy person.
- [00:30]
Zach Lowe
You probably know one, your buddy, your sister. Ones who always show up. They're the first to rise, the last to leave. They always have that little extra something
- [00:40]
Kurt Goldsberry
and maybe you've got it too.
- [00:42]
Zach Lowe
Chevrolet together, let's drive. Visit chevy.com trucks to explore the lineup. Coming up on the Zach Lowe Show. It's July 30th, but you're listening to this much later than July 30th. This is part one of a two part podcast with Kurt Goldsberry that we're hoping to drop over the next couple weeks as I'm gallivanting around Europe on vacation. And it's a very simple gimmick. The 10 players facing the most pressure in the NBA for the 2627 season. We each made lists of 10 and we go in reverse order from 10 to 1. Part 1 this podcast right now is the first half of our lists plus some honorable mentions. We hit the Celtics, we hit the Raptors, we hit the Rockets, the Magic, the Pistons, the Wolves, a bunch of teams and a bunch of interesting sort of pressure facing players if you will. And then we ended with a deep dive on the Indiana Pacers. Yeah, remember them? The Indiana Pacers? They didn't have any players on either of our lists, although they had several honorable mention pressure players. This team was within a win and maybe an injury of the NBA title like a second ago. And their over under is 43 and a half. On Fanduel. They have a new center, Evita Zubots replacing Miles Turner. Otherwise, basically the same team minus Ben Matheran that almost won the championship. What do we make of this team? What should our expectations be? So it's part one Pressure Rankings Pacers. Hope you enjoy it. Welcome to the Zach Lowe show. It's July 30th, but you will be listening to this sometime in August when I am in Europe gallivanting around. Kurt Goldsberry is here. We're going to have some fun. We're going to count down the 10 players under the most pressure in the upcoming NBA season. Given that most but not all of the off season drama and players changing teams has done. Mr. Goldsberry, how are you doing?
- [02:46]
Kurt Goldsberry
I'm great. I'm excited for you and your family to gallivant. Tis the season in the NBA calendar where a bunch of us get to gallivant. So enjoy it.
- [02:55]
Zach Lowe
Zach the biggest major drama still yet to be decided, at least as we're recording this on July 30, is Kawhi Leonard's the investigation continues or may be almost ending, maybe about to end into the aspiration alleged cap circumvention scandal. Baxter Holmes reported yesterday at ESPN that this process could could in a worst case scenario for everybody involved, including me and you go into 2027 because you and I talked about this on July 15th when Adam Silver gave us press conference. It's not like investigation over decision done necessarily. There's an arbitration process to which the union is a party. There's an appeals process on top of that if an arbitration goes one way or another. So yes, obviously like we talked about that, it could take much longer than Adam Silver's. We hope to have this resolved over the summer timeline unless there is some sort of like I called it, plea bargaining agreement where the investigation is done, everybody gets together, they hash out what's fair before going into said arbitration process. I have nothing else to say about this. We haven't heard the end of it. Maybe by the time people listen to this, you've heard the end of it. Like Pablo keeps coming out with episodes. They're all very interesting. There was one about a Rhode island soccer team that came out last night. Awesome reporting. I just, at some point life will move on.
- [04:15]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah, it just, I think it's interesting because the only thing I would add, Zach, is that Adam Silver seemed to take a pretty confident stance throughout the spring that this was going to be resolved this summer before the, before the season. To me, that's the most noteworthy thing. I don't think that was ever realistic given the scope and as you alluded to Pablo's continuing to uncover things. And then I thought Baxter's reporting was really relevant because if the Clippers don't like the result or if the players association does not like the result, both outcomes I think are very likely here. There's going to be, there will be more things to do. So it's looking more and more so. Like I saw Adam speak in New York a couple of weeks ago and I texted you right after. He said he's like Kawhi Leonard is A Clipper. He said that, like, very adamantly. I was like, oh, that's interesting. But yeah, the thing here is like, training camp is weeks away. Brandon Ingram, Grady Dick, they hang in the balance. Kawhi Leonard hangs in the balance. This is just getting to be messy and extend into the fall.
- [05:18]
Zach Lowe
I'm excited to take a break from it and it's going to be great. The other off season drama that did end in time for me to go on vacation was LeBron James signing with the Philadelphia 76ers after, of course, they famously acquired Jaylen Brown from the Celtics while Bill Simmons was undergoing a colonoscopy. We've talked ad nauseum already on this podcast about that trade. The Sixers team, the State of the East. I just, I will say I'm excited to go on vacation again. It's July 30th because I fear, Kirk, that there is another week's worth of Inside LeBron's decision coverage coming. Because yesterday, July 29, albeit only five or six days after the decision itself was made public, there was a Dave McMenamin story on ESPN, which I feel like is like the fourth in depth story about Inside LeBron's decision to go to Philadelphia. Simultaneously, there was Rich Paul and Max Kellerman on our podcast network had Sham Strani on to talk about the inside story of LeBron James. And look, LeBron is arguably, arguably the greatest player of all time. I have nothing against LeBron. I've loved following his career. I've interviewed him a few times. He's awesome. Like I have said from the before, he even chose the Sixers that I thought it would be kind of cool if he chose the Sixers. I've said he's not ring chasing all of that stuff. All of that said, I kind of feel like they're having a little too much fun at the offices of Clutch hq. Just sort of. It's not a victory lap. It's like, oh, did you guys miss the breadcrumbs? We had this breadcrumb here. Breadcrumb over here. Did we tell you that this meeting happened over here? Get a little cheeky. It's getting a little cheeky for my taste. And the other thing is all of these stories have fun. Little details in them that were heretofore unknown, like, oh, the Celtics were interested, or the Clippers had this offer and they come at the cost of things like this. Anonymous quotes like this, this is from McMenamin's story. He didn't take the easy way. A Sixers source Told ESPN he's comfortable being uncomfortable, which a lot of people aren't. Can we just settle down? Like he didn't say. Did anyone say he took the easy way? Was anyone, was anyone making an argument that there was a harder way he should have taken? And why are you co opting Daryl Morey's comfortable being uncomfortable quote, and throwing it in his face after you fired him and then added a source close to James, I gained even more respect for him. Everybody looks at a job as work, but when I saw that I asked myself, let's say you worked for this company for 20 something years and you know that you're going to retire in a few years. Would I go to Philly? Would I go somewhere that's a six hour flight and leave everything, my family here to go there? It's really the pure story of dedication to his craft. It's basketball. I gained even more respect for him. There is not enough settled down juice in the grocery store to pour on top of that. Quote. Can we just all relax a little bit with this fawning myth making about a dude who decided to go play on a great east coast team with Joel Embiid and Jaylen Brown. It just, it's just everything is a little, it's a little much. I don't know if maybe I'm just cranky. It's like a little, a little much with it. And then he talks about saying how he said trust the process at the Fanatics.
- [08:36]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah.
- [08:37]
Zach Lowe
He did not say that in any way, shape or form to drop some kind of Easter egg about the Sixers. A source close to James told espn. First of all, why do we have to have anonymous sources about a stupid quote at Fanatics Fest Quote? He thought it was funny, but also it wasn't conscious. Okay, what the fuck does that mean? I'm just, just. It's a little too cheeky. It's all too cheeky. And I'm done.
- [08:58]
Kurt Goldsberry
Now it's the dregs of, of content. And I think they dropped a bomb in a perfect time to own the news cycle.
- [09:06]
Zach Lowe
They owned it. You got to give them credit. You're right. They, they really played it out perfectly.
- [09:10]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah, I'm happy about it. I haven't spoken about it. I think the McNenamon column that you and I talked about two weeks ago, where we had gone back and forth about, man, this seems like it was realistic, that actually changed my opinion. I still didn't think it was going to happen. But looking forward, Zach Lowe, beyond this hysteria, I will say this, it makes the Eastern Conference regular season programming a lot more interesting because now those Philly Boston games are juicy, the Philly New York games are juicy, the Philly Miami game. There's like a matrix of great Eastern Conference games and some interconference games. But ultimately I'm glad this happened and I can't wait for October because October is better discourse in the NBA than August, that's for sure.
- [09:54]
Zach Lowe
You know, Kirk, that was a really good take. I gained even more respect for you from that take. Even more.
- [10:03]
Kurt Goldsberry
Thank you.
- [10:03]
Zach Lowe
Onto the gimmick of this podcast. The dust is settled. And this is supposed to be, this is going to be a two part sort of evergreen podcast that they can drop in while I'm on vacation so this feed does not go dormant. So the gimmick is just this. I said let's each rank our 10 players facing the most pressure in this upcoming NBA season. Now that we've seen everyone who's changed teams has gotten traded and we're going to go in reverse order. So we're going to pick our number tens facing the least pressure of the most pressure group. And then part two will have the guys that we are facing the absolute most pressure for the coming season. I suspect that some Sixers may come up in this discussion and so we're just going to go rapid fire. Then I'll have a bunch of honorable mentions. We'll see how our lists overlap. And with that, Kirk, I will let you lead off. Who's number 10 on your list?
- [10:49]
Kurt Goldsberry
Number 10 on my list is LaMelo Ball, the newest member of the Minnesota Timberwolves, a player who's now been hoisted from sort of a franchise that's happy to play basketball to one that expects to play basketball into May and maybe even June. I think Minnesota took one of the biggest gambles of this whole off season, sending out Nas Reid, the beloved Nas Reid, a fan favorite, and importing one of the most polarizing guys in the league. And you factor in the fact that Minnesota has been to the conference finals two of the last three years, a tough second round loss to the spurs last year, and then this closing or opening Ant man window, depending on who you talk to. And it feels like a lot of this falls on the shoulders of LaMelo Ball. Will he be able to bring this team to the next level and suddenly level up Zach Low? And I'm pretty skeptical, actually. But nonetheless, I think he has a lot of pressure, the kind of pressure he has never had on him as a player in this league.
- [11:54]
Zach Lowe
Here's the pressure and he was on my honorable mention list along with Rudy Gobert from this team. And also I like to go deep cuts again, honorable mention. I had Taryn Shannon Jr. Just because there's this massive hole at power forward because not only did Nas Reid go out, Julius Randle went out in a salary dump essentially to enable this move. But the pressure is now you have expectations that go beyond the play in. You have expectations of being a 50 plus win team and playing deep into the playoffs, which means going toe to toe against the nastiest, meanest, most athletic, most physical teams. And I think that was the doubt that Charlotte harbored about Lamelo ball. If we got in a playoff series with Steph Castle or the army of Oklahoma City wings in your grill, in your jersey, pushing, shoving, making every catch and chore, are you going to wilt or are you going to get even tougher and out physical them and fight for the ball and fight for position and fight for rebounds? Are you going to get even more reckless with your passes and your trickery and your highlight reel chasing and all of that? I think it's the most fascinating, one of the more fascinating experiments in the league. I'm kind of with you that I'm a little less like optimistic about it as a functional move than I was when it happened. I get why they did it. I think it will work to some degree. Like I get. I think offensively they're going to be very powerful moving Anthony Edwards into less of a ball dominant role. I'm just interested I think the cost though when you talk about filling power forward minutes from Randall and reed to more McDaniels at the four Shannon junior Trey Lyles is here on a minimum. Jalen Clark, like that's Josh Green might help a little bit. It's a lot. It's a lot to ask him.
- [13:37]
Kurt Goldsberry
And for I did my homework for this assignment and I said, you know, there's five types of pressures act Lowe that we're going to talk about. There's contract pressure, pressure, living up to big numbers. There's legacy pressure, living up to career expectations. There's health pressure, which I'll come back to. And then there's like this foundational pressure when you're the center of an organization. Then there's market pressure. I think Minnesota is a market that expects to win. But the biggest thing we haven't talked about with Lamelo is health pressure. And I'm sure you've talked to people around Charlotte since their season where when they talk about this move they are unfortunately, really skeptical that Lamelo's ankles and lower body can live up to the grind that the modern NBA puts on these guys. He only played 28 minutes per game last year and that was no accident. Zach Lowe. That's a number that I think Minnesota fans have to ingest and understand why they were doing that. And it's also a big reason why they were willing to get off of what some people consider to be their franchise player in this transaction. So can he withstand the health pressure? Are his ankles going to hang, hang on to to defend Shay and the spurs dudes or is he going to be on on the injured list a lot?
- [14:54]
Zach Lowe
Number 10 on my list. Kind of a deep cut, but I had some fun with this. This will surprise you. I think Reed shepherd from the Houston Rockets and again like I could go there. There's a bunch of obvious guys on my honorable mention but like this is an interesting one to me for a number of reasons. Never quite found his footing to the degree we all thought he would or should have in the regular season. Even under IME Odoka who is defense first, incredibly demanding and just would not go all in to start Reed shepherd when they clearly needed a boost on offense with Fred Van Vliet out. Fred Van Vliet is back. Now he's back as Reed shepherd comes off a playoffs that can only be described as an absolute catastrophe in almost every possible way. Shot 30% from the field, 30 mostly threes. So you know, not as bad as it looks on paper. Got picked on on defense, committed one of the two absolutely inexplicable egregious turnovers at the end of Game 3 against the Lakers trying to split a double team at half court that cost the Rockets an un like you should never in a million years lose that game and it ended up essentially costing them the series. And he is the number three pick in a draft where Steph Castle was the number four pick taken by an in state Western Conference rival in an all time potentially sliding doors moment that the Rockets may just the Rockets in the rest of the west may not be able to recover from. And this is make or break now for Reed shepherd and break means is he a trade asset that the Rockets use in some sort of mid season move to sort of get a team to, you know, trading picks and future prospects for a veteran kind of player? We'll see. But I got my Reed Shepherd. That's all you want to go next on your list?
- [16:38]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah, the 2024 draft class. Obviously it's a key year for these guys to make money too. Zach Low, you have to earn an extension. And when you're drafted number three in your draft, you should be a max extension candidate at very least. And he has a lot to prove to get there this season. I just want to say I agree with that. He was on my honorable mention.
- [16:59]
Zach Lowe
Yeah.
- [17:00]
Kurt Goldsberry
All right, so I had Alex Sar in the same sort of sense, like this is a time for you to. To get paid, young man. Number, number next on my list.
- [17:11]
Zach Lowe
On your list.
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Kurt Goldsberry
Chet Holmgren speaking.
- [17:14]
Zach Lowe
Okay, we have our first overlap. Chet Holmgren is nine on your list. Chet Holmgren is way up at number three on my list. So we could knock off two birds with one stone. You do the honors.
- [17:28]
Kurt Goldsberry
Okay, I'll do the honors. I can't wait to hear what you say. Obviously this is a young player who had become an all defensive type player, a rim protector, a stretch five, a key piece of a championship team. Things were looking great a year ago. This was one of the brightest pieces of a potential dynasty for sure. Then the spurs series happened and I think Victor Wembanyama just putting one of the ultimate sort of laser sights on one person. It was a really interesting moment in NBA history for me. They obviously just have this cool rivalry and Wemby just sort of poetically made that a one sided rivalry. And that was all culminated obviously with a game seven performance that'll go down an infamy in Oklahoma where chet Holman goes 1 of 2 from the floor in 32 minutes, has four points, three rebounds and two assists in a game where his team needed him the most. And now, and I know this is in your notes too, what happens this year? Zach LOWE his, his five year, $240 million contract kicks in five more years. He has to rediscover that form that got him that contract in the first place.
- [18:47]
Zach Lowe
His defense remained stalwart in that series. But our lasting image of Chet Holmgren when the chips were down In a Game 7 against the rival that is going to define his NBA life for the next five years, the team and the individual Victor Wembanyama, our lasting image of him is passing up wide open threes and one play where he caught the ball kind of in the triple threat position, but closer to the baseline on the right wing. And it was like quicksand opened in the floor. He literally just like tried to dribble and fell over. And that was the end of Chet holmgren. He averaged 11 points a game in the Western Conference finals. He took 11 threes total in seven games, which is inexcusable. He became a complete offensive zero for most of the series. And given that the Thunder had to sacrifice a lot of depth this summer to get under the second apron, it just can't happen again. It can't. I don't expect Chet Holmgren. He falls into a lot of a bucket where a lot of big guys live. Bam. Adebayo lives here sometimes. Anthony Davis even lives here where I think their great offensive games create expectations from people like, why don't they average 25 a game now Anthony Davis has. But like, why don't they. Why don't Anthony Davis average 30 a game? They're just. They just don't play that way. They're not built to play that way. It's not the nature of their game. But you can't be a zero. You got to give me 18. You got to abuse a couple switches. You got to screen and roll for some dunks and have just some impact on the game offensively. And what was really interesting about that spurs series is their total reluctance to have Chet Holmgren play the five at all. And if you look at what they did in the off season, it looks like they're still reluctant to have Chet Holmgren play the five. They lost a lot of their wing depth. They resigned Isaiah Hartenstein over keeping Lou Dort and others. They drafted another center in the Marekid from Michigan. They kept big Jalen Williams. But I have two Thunder players in my top 10. He was one of them. And I think he. This is his. Dirk goes to the Outback moment after. After the, we believe loss, where he just like vanished off the face of the earth and came back literally from the Australian Outback a better player. This is the moment that could define Chet Holmgren's entire career. It could go Dirk Nowitzki or it could go Ben Simmons. I expect it to go closer to Dirk Nowitzki, but we'll see. Next on my list. We can be quick on this one. You know, we talked about how the Raptors are in limbo with this Kawhi trade, and if it goes through, they will have tons of expectations. Jakob Pertle is honorable mention on my list. I think he's just honorable mention because that contract is already a disaster and I don't see any turning back. Emmanuel Quickley, doesn't it feel like. Doesn't it feel like he's barely played for the Raptors? Like, can you remember a single thing Emmanuel Cookley has done on the Raptors? Didn't play at all in the playoffs against Cleveland. And they were better defensively for it because Jamal Shed took most of those minutes and Jacoby Walter took a lot of those minutes. They're going to need Emmanuel Quickley to be better on defense. And then you look at his offensive stats, and they're like about what you would expect if you were the raptors. He's like 17, 6 and 6, 37, 38% on threes, shoots a lot of threes. And he just. And he played 70 games last year. It's not like he was out the whole year. But before that, the year before, he'd only played 38, 68 the year before that. It just feels like division was. We're not handing the offense to you, Emmanuel Quickley, but you're going to defend point guards and you're going to be this sort of like, supercharged version of a George Hill where you average 16, 18 a game. You're off the ball a lot. You can set screens for Scotty Barnes and reverse pick and rolls. You punish defenses on closeouts. And we've seen like a quarter of it here, a quarter of it there. For this team to take the form that it thinks it can take. They just need Emmanuel Quickley to be very good for a prolonged period of time. And I feel like people have just forgotten about him. And he makes $32 million for the next three seasons. It's time for them to get the Emanuel Quickley who they thought they were getting in the OGN and OBI trade. And the Knicks already got the OGN and obi. They dreamt of getting in that trade. So RJ Barrett's done his job. He's not even on my list. I feel pretty confident about what RJ Barrett brings to the table. For better or worse, he's an interesting extension candidate. I've talked about that. Emmanuel Quickley. It's like. It's like time for this to be a consistent, real thing. Yeah.
- [23:06]
Kurt Goldsberry
I have no notes. I did not have him listed, but I agree that this person. Like, I was going to bring up the OG part of this. Like, don't forget that. That he was one of the main pieces in that trade. But, yeah, dude, I don't have him on my list. But among the.
- [23:24]
Zach Lowe
You hate Canada. That's all.
- [23:26]
Kurt Goldsberry
Do I.
- [23:27]
Zach Lowe
My.
- [23:28]
Kurt Goldsberry
My car got stolen in Montreal this summer, so that's a story for another time. But I am. I'm. Wow. Yeah. Turns out auto theft is a big deal in Montreal. Zach. We can. We can do a whole podcast on it.
- [23:39]
Zach Lowe
Sorry. Sorry. I just like your car. Sorry. But that.
- [23:44]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah, dude. Yeah. I don't know what else to say.
- [23:47]
Zach Lowe
So pick your next guy. Who cares? We're done with Domino. Quickly.
- [23:51]
Kurt Goldsberry
Donovan Mitchell. They. They played in the playoffs. Donovan Mitchell. I. This is one that I'm, like, least excited to talk about. I feel like this has been his saga for the last two years. When I've been on your show, it's now or never. It was an ugly postseason. Technically they made it to round three or whatever, but it never felt like that was around 3 level performance by this team. And Donovan Mitchell's part of that. He needs to be better. As I said, I think there's five types of pressure on my list. This is what I would characterize Zach Lowe as. Legacy pressure. This guy's so talented, so good, yet he's never been real close to the NBA Finals. He's too good of a player, I think, to have that legacy. And I still think Cleveland is really good. And I think this team has a chance to put it all together. And we've talked about this on your show for months now. We didn't see a lot of Mobley and Allen together this year because of injuries. They got Harden in the middle of the season. They still have a chance in a pretty open Eastern Conference to make a lot of noise. And Donovan Mitchell has a chance to get MVP votes, all NBA consideration. We've seen him for years, but I think time is running out for Donovan Mitchell to be that guy.
- [25:07]
Zach Lowe
How about the $75.5 million player option he now has in 20, 30, 31, Kirk, does that put any additional pressure on him?
- [25:13]
Kurt Goldsberry
Well, there's contract pressure, y for sure.
- [25:16]
Zach Lowe
I had Mitchell, Harden, and Mobley all in my honorable mentions, mostly because I'm just kind of like, you bored of talking about the Cavaliers at this point? Like, is Evan Mobley going to make the leap offensively? Let's have that discussion again in October. That'll be fun. And James Harden. You know, Bill and I did our pre playoff draft of just different categories that he makes up before the playoffs every year. And one of them was like, legacy guy. And we got to the end, it was like, wow. We didn't even think about Harden for like, who can a guy who can flip his legacy. And it's like, because I know exactly what's going to happen. He's going to choke in every elimination game, and that's just going to be what it is. He's going to have some big games along the way, and he certainly did in both their playoff series that they won. Not so much against the Knicks and I don't think they're done yet. In the off season, despite missing out on LeBron James, there's I think some tepid Kaminga interest. Again, it's July 30th is we're recording this. By the time you listen to this, Jonathan Kaminga could be a Cav or he could be something else. I think there's some less also some level of Peyton Watson signing trade entrance for the Cavs, but there's apron issues on both sides of that and I'm not sure they have enough really to get it done. But I think they know how big this up upcoming season is for them with the east, you know, having beefed up around the edges at least. I think there are at least 11 good teams in the east so gets a good pick. All right, I'm going to predict that my next guy, number eight on my list is also on your top 10. Paolo Banero from the Orlando Magic.
- [26:44]
Kurt Goldsberry
No honorable mention. Okay, but now, dude, honestly I don't do this much, but I'm like, I think I fucked up. I should have put him on there.
- [26:53]
Zach Lowe
I think that's why we have two of us.
- [26:55]
Kurt Goldsberry
Okay, I'm happy to get there with you because this man has a lot of pressure on him for a variety of reasons.
- [27:02]
Zach Lowe
22, 8 and 5 in the regular season, 46% shooting, 31% on threes. And again the Magic were slightly better with him off the floor than on the floor I have talked about before. That's used as sort of a scarlet letter against him. I don't really believe it. I think that has a lot to do with the structure of their team and all the injuries that have happened to them over the last X amount of years in the playoffs, 26, 9 and 6 a game. Great counting stats. He always shows up, he always plays tough. 42% shooting, 33% on threes, 46% on twos. And again, why I don't believe in that scarlet letter. The team was decent when Bankera was on the floor, although not offensively. Their scoring margin was about even and a complete sinkhole when he was off the floor. Partly because Franz Wagner missed a lot of that first round series against the Pistons. And look, I mean the story remains the same. His best nights. He looks like the number one option on a great team. His for him and the Magic to advance to the next level, he has to bottle more of the efficiency that defines those best nights, which means probably taking fewer jump shots because or. Or getting better at shooting long twos and threes because he takes too many of both and also getting more comfortable and the shooting is part of this. Not playing the number one option role all the time because you have another really good player in Franz Wagner and you're going to have to learn to play off him a little bit better. And I just keep coming back to I think people are sweeping on the Magic as a top six team in the east next year. I'm not going to say they're going to be a top six team. I'm going to have to look at the standings and all that. But they also have the Anthony Black question hovering over their head and the money question. But because their payroll is huge. But Suggs, Bain, Bankero and Wagner only played 19 games together in the regular season and that and that quartet was about plus 12 per 100 possessions. I do still want to see more of it together. Suggs was an honorable mention for me because it's like okay, man, is this just every year going to be. You shoot okay to not okay from three and you're injured all the time. Is there a consistent player archetype that we can tap into? But I'm going Paolo Banchero. I've always been a not fervent believer, but I have been defensive of him against the criticism that he's just an empty stats, empty calories bad. A good stats, bad team guy. I think his passing and scoring ability around the rim are pretty interesting. But I'm he's on my list. Let's I'll put it that way.
- [29:39]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah. And here's why I would. I, you know, I've been hard on him. I got aggregated on this very show because of a Paolo take last year. Look, sometimes it's too slow. The ball sticks. It looks like an old Josh Smith tape is is the bid I used and got aggregated for the name you didn't mention. Which is why I'm pretty confident about the Magic this year. Aside from injury stuff is Sean Sweeney and I I really do think Sean Sweeney is going to change the culture and the vibe there. I think he did a marvelous job in San Antonio, marvelous job in Dallas before that. He's just one of these guys and I think that'll trickle down into Paolo's game. The style of offense, I think the intensity of the team and he's too talented. I remember the first time I saw Paul play was Final Four and right. He's just one of these guys you see in person. You're like oh my God, this guy is so talented, so big, so athletic. He's a five tool player. I still think he has a lot of potential to put that together. Maybe that's why I didn't have him in this list because I'm pretty optimistic. But I'll meet you there. I think he does have pressure and that team has pressure because this core, this duo of Wagner and Banchero, it's time for them to put up or shut up. And I do think I'd have to look at it too. I think 4, 5, 6 is definitely in play for the Atlanta Magic this year in the Eastern Conference.
- [31:04]
Zach Lowe
All right, let's take a quick break and then we'll continue on our pressure player list with Kurt Goldsberry. All right, I think it's your pick now. What are you on number seven on your list?
- [31:15]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yes, I am on number seven and I'm going with de' Aaron Fox from the San Antonio Spurs.
- [31:20]
Zach Lowe
You are overlapping with me again. You had Chet Holmgren at number eight. I think I had him at number three. You have Darren Fox at number seven. I have de' Aaron Fox all the way up at number two on my top ten pressure list. So let's get into it.
- [31:36]
Kurt Goldsberry
Well, let me get out of the way because you've obviously you've got more to say here. You know, when you talk to people around the spurs, everybody was disappointed in the finals. They, they think they had a chance to win. When you tell you we're ahead by with 46 minutes left, we're ahead, whatever, you can roast them for that. But De' Aaron Fox's performance in the 2026 NBA playoffs was not good enough. Now they'll quickly say what Zach Lowe, he had a devastating ankle sprain. He was making it work. He was trying his best and I will agree with that. That was a six week injury and the dude came back. And this episode is brought to you by Boar's Head. It may have been years ago, but I still remember the feeling of unpacking my kids lunchboxes after school and find nothing left. As a parent that's a total win. Boar's Head Maple Honey Ham, American Cheese Maple Honey Turkey. All time greats in the school lunch game. It's real quality protein that tastes great. So you can feel that winning feeling all term long. Whether you're doing wraps, sandwiches or a quick snack box, Boar's Head makes packing school lunches easier. You'll be proud of what you pack. They'll be happy to finish it. Fuel their school day with the premium choice. Boar's Head for lunchtime inspiration, visit borishead.combacktoschool or head to your local deli counter. Two weeks. A lot of NBA players would not have even tried that. Said, some of the things we saw I think were just too bad even to say, oh, he's got a bad ankle. Like turnovers that were unforced and just mental mistakes.
- [33:07]
Zach Lowe
The defining mental mistake of the entire playoffs was the botched layup over Anunoby enabling the Anuno be tip in in game four of the finals.
- [33:16]
Kurt Goldsberry
100% and the greatest comeback this league may ever see in a big moment. And you know, those kinds of things make me put him on this list. So I will acknowledge the ankle injury with my friends in San Antonio, but this man makes a lot of money and they brought him in to make this team a real championship contender. I thought it looked like he had done that all regular season, but then there were moments in the playoffs where it didn't look like he was made for that. So. But you have him higher on the list, so I will turn it over to you. Zach Lowe.
- [33:45]
Zach Lowe
Well, I have him higher on the list only for two reasons. Number one, this is obviously a championship contender that needs at least for some amount of time as Harper and Castle really find their groove in the league. Needs his organizational capabilities and probably his mid range shooting which deserted him in the playoffs, specifically in the finals with that ankle injury. He's also under pressure because he is starting a four year, 200 something million dollars contract that is right now untradeable. And he's also under pressure because the guys behind him or beside him in the rotation are coming for his minutes if he doesn't produce. So it's a perfect storm of all kinds of pressure. The finals were bad for him. The playoffs were largely for him. 15 a game, 41% shooting, 29% on threes and 47 and a half percent on twos, which is not good enough. Ankle sprain was a big, a big part of that. He also started the season with a hamstring injury. So he started kind of behind the eight ball trying to build chemistry with Wembanyama and Castle and Harper and all those guys. And after the finals there was a lot of defensive de' Aaron Fox and the defense I kept hearing was well, you know, the spurs were still better with him on the floor than they were with him off the floor. They need his organization. They were incoherent without him on offense. And I think in the finals in parts that was true. They had a slightly positive point Differential with him on the floor in the finals and a slightly negative one with him off the floor in the finals. But for the season and for the playoffs, when the. According to cleaning the glass, when the spurs had Wembanyama, who obviously is the keystone to everything, Castle, Harper on the floor and Fox off the floor, it's not a huge sample size. I think it was about 180, 200 minutes in the regular season, something like that. And obviously less in the playoffs. They absolutely wiped the floor with their opponents. And so I get the idea that his skill set is part of what this team needs. That his clutch jump shooting, which again vanished in the playoffs. He shot 43% on mid Rangers in the playoffs, 52 in the regular season. I think they, if they want to win the championship next year, I think they need de' Aaron Fox. But I think the defense of him was a little over vociferous given how he performed in the finals and what those numbers show. But I do think they need him. I do think they have a. He has a better season in him. I thought I kind of expected him to shoot better from three bounce back a little bit to his, his King's highs in this context. He didn't do it. And he's just an okay to good passer for his position. He's not an incredible playmaker in terms of finding Wembanyama and lobs and stuff. Hopefully that comes with chemistry. But he, he's a no brainer for wherever you put him on this list. He's got to be there.
- [36:34]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah. And the trio you lined up there, obviously Fox, Castle, Wembanyama, it feels like, okay, that's the core of this team. Sorry Darren. Sorry everybody else.
- [36:43]
Zach Lowe
You mean Hart? You mean Harper? Castle?
- [36:45]
Kurt Goldsberry
Women.
- [36:45]
Zach Lowe
Yamaha.
- [36:45]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah, yeah. Sorry, what did I say? I don't know.
- [36:47]
Zach Lowe
Fox.
- [36:48]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah, that's right. So the two young guards in Wemby is obviously this, this core trio going forward. One stat to Dearen's defense that I think is really important is when Stefan Castle was the point guard after Fox went out against Minnesota. Stefan Castle logged two of the worst turnover games that we've ever seen in postseason history. Darren comes back and sort of steadies, steadies the offense. Those turnovers went away and in a related story, the spurs put away the wolves. So I do think his grow up maturity as a grown up point guard in this ecosystem is very valuable and was proved valuable in some times. But then the idea that this guy won the clutch player of the year award, Zach, a few years ago for Sacramento just seemed like a distant memory. Watching him down the stretch, hobbled on one foot. But you know, playing in those moments in the finals.
- [37:45]
Zach Lowe
All right, I'm going to go to number seven on my list. Jalen Duran, Detroit Pistons honorable mention. This is an obvious one incredible regular season. All NBA is all NBA third team appearances. One of the reasons he, as of July 30th and we're recording this, is not yet signed to a contract with Detroit Pistons to play next season. And the playoffs were pretty much a disaster for Jalen Duran. He averaged about 10 points a game, way down from the regular season assist to turnovers about even. He looked unsteady, rickety, uncertain to the point he started trying his mid range jumper, which isn't ready for prime time. And the roles to the rim that he feasted on in the regular season. In the first round, Orlando just took those away completely by switching and going under screens on Cade Cunningham and there was no plan B. And even in the second round, the Cavs defended a little bit more traditionally against the pick and roll and he could not hurt them at all. You see glimpses of it even in the playoffs, like a couple times where he would seal guys in transition and dunk on them. There was one game he had like a three dunk sequence in a row on the Cavaliers in one game. So there were, there were snippets of it. But the idea of him as like secondary offensive option, a guy who can face up and create against playoff defenses, a guy who can be a hub a little bit as a passer, it just wasn't there. I will say he's still only 22 years old. Like it's incredible how young he is. I'm a complete believer in his defense. It's been a little unsteady at times. His decision making can be a little hazy at times. Again, he's 22. I think he has all the tools and all the will to be a guy who can play pretty much any scheme defensively. His rim protection in the playoffs was better than it was in the regular season. So I'm, I'm a believer. He's kind of tied to Assar Thompson in the sense that like one of them has to develop a little bit offensively on the ball to make this really, really sing in the playoffs. But I'm assuming he will be on the Pistons next season. Again, it's July 30th and I just think given what happened to him in the playoffs, he's kind of like Eastern Conference Chet Holmgren. Not that anyone ate his lunch the way Wemby, Chad Holmgren's lunch, but just the playoffs didn't go the way it needs to go for him, and he needs to dig deep and figure out why that is and how not to make it happen again for a team that. But, you know, people are kind of hating on their. On their off season. Like they've swapped out Tobias Harris for John Collins and more or less, you know, they added Isaiah Joe. They didn't do much. I don't really. I'm not in a rush for them to do much. They still have all their trade assets. I still think they're going to win a shit ton of games next year and be in contention for the number one seed in the East. But they've now reached the stage where the playoffs are what matters, and he's just got to be way better.
- [40:31]
Kurt Goldsberry
Average 20 points a game in the regular season. Didn't score 20 once in 14 playoff appearances. That's not good. That pick and roll play with Cunningham and him had become one of the bread and butter actions in the whole league. Efficient despite just being spammed game after game after game. It worked. It worked. Until it didn't. When it mattered most, the Orlando series was tough to watch. Being outplayed by players that I think most of us would have thought are much below his standard coming into that series. But the thing he said the most that I would put him lower on my list than the honorable mention is the 22. He's younger than some guys that just got drafted in the first round and he deserves some time to grow. But, man, like I said, you have to score the ball on that team, particularly Zach Lowe. In an ecosystem where offense is not the strong suit, where shot creation is not the strong suit, to lose the offense from Duran in that playoff run was particularly painful for that team.
- [41:35]
Zach Lowe
Let's do a couple more guys and then we'll pivot for a bit. But like, give us. Give me number six on your list. We're getting towards the top five now. Give me number six.
- [41:42]
Kurt Goldsberry
It is Jason Tatum, the Celtics, he
- [41:46]
Zach Lowe
is number five on my list. So we, we are about equivalent on Jason Tatum. Go ahead.
- [41:51]
Kurt Goldsberry
Okay. So I'm sure we're going to have some of the same things at fair or not. I think there's a perception that the Celtics either chose Jason over Jalen or Jason over Jalen and Jason, depending on who you talk to.
- [42:02]
Zach Lowe
There's no perception. They. They did. That's what they chose. Jalen Brown's not on the Celtics anymore.
- [42:09]
Kurt Goldsberry
But like our friends in Minnesota, I think the expectations in Boston remain sky high despite the massive trade this year. And then that puts a lot of pressure on Jason Tatum. And the thing that I would say is he has this market pressure associated with his team in Boston. He has the contract pressure of a 35% of the cap guy and he has health pressure, which I was, I wish I wasn't talking about. But that's one of the big reasons I think we're talking about him. He is, he's failed to finish each of the last two postseasons. His team didn't have him in those big losses against New York, obviously two years ago and then last year when he got hurt against the Sixers and couldn't play Game seven. So Jason Tatum, what do you have? Zach Love?
- [42:57]
Zach Lowe
Well, first of all, on my honorable mentions, I had both Peyton Pritchard and Derrick White because the Celtics don't expect to go down in the standings in the Eastern Conference. The Jaylen Brown trade is a bet against Jaylen Brown, but it's also a bet on everybody who's left over from a core who's been hugely successful in Boston for a decade now, starting with Tatum, but also Derrick White, whose three point shooting fell off a cliff last year. And no one knows if it was a fluke. You know, I remember he came to Boston and that was the weak spot in his game, the prove it spot in his game. And he had proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt. And then last year slipped back, really cost the Celtics against the Sixers in the first round and cost them all season. And again, was it a fluke? Was it because he had a bigger offensive workload without Jayson Tatum? Well, now Jaylen Brown is also not here. Paul George is here, but he's not the same. Kind of just like feed that guy and let him cook kind of guy is Gian Brown and then Peyton Pritchard. You know, I've already kind of joked about it. I, I just like let's stop with the Peyton Pritchard could be Boston's Jalen Brown or Jalen Brunson now that he's getting a higher role on offense. Jalen Brunson is one of one. Peyton Pritchard is a fine player. I have no doubt he can score 20 points a game in the NBA. Jalen Brunson is a different animal. But Tatum, look, I mean it's indisputably his team. He is still coming off an Achilles tear. I know he played the last 20, whatever games of last season and six of Boston's playoff games and he played them quite well, 22, 10 and five in the playoffs. Didn't shoot it great. But he looked more or less like Jayson Tatum coming back from an Achilles injury. Like he looked really good, didn't get to the rim quite as often, didn't finish quite as well. All to be expected. One of the finest all around players in the sport still. But again, this team doesn't expect expect to take a step back and that's on. It's his team. And by the way, they won the championship two years ago. The only players left from that team who played any minutes in the playoffs in 2024 are Derrick White, aside from Tatum, Derek White, Peyton Pritchard, Sam Houser and Neemi Keda. And Jordan Walsh played 24 combined minutes in the title run in the playoffs. So that they've just gradually whittled away that nucleus around Jayson Tatum. And I think think in all of the attention that the Sixers have gotten for putting all these high usage guys together, including LeBron, for being the team that did go out and trade for Jalen Brown and what does it mean for Jalen Brown to not be the number one option on the team he got traded for and all of this, he's the most. Jalen Brown is the character of the off season in the NBA. I don't think enough attention has been paid to like what this leaves for Jayson Tatum to take care of.
- [45:41]
Kurt Goldsberry
I agree.
- [45:41]
Zach Lowe
More.
- [45:41]
Kurt Goldsberry
I couldn't agree more. I think that Bill brings up the value of durability when he's talking about Jaylen Brown a lot. It's like, hey, I know these advanced metrics, yada yada yada, but this dude chews up innings. And the Celtics had a choice between a guy with a traumatic lower leg injury and a guy who is durable and they chose the guy with the Achilles tendon injury and this these calf strain issues and I forget what the actual injury he missed Game 7 for. It wasn't a calf strain. Even though he's icing up his calf. I forget. Regardless, I think there's a lot of that pressure on this dude. Obviously if he misses time in a Jalen Brown less universe. Now we're talking about Derek White and Peyton Pritchard being options one and two on an offense to win games. I think the Celtics still win 50, 50 plus games. In a world where Jayson Tatum plays 70 games, 75 games, if his number drops like 50 because of his injuries, I just don't see this team keeping up that standard that the fan base has come to expect in the Jayson Tatum era. So he has a lot of pressure on.
- [46:51]
Zach Lowe
All right, I'm going to reveal number six on my list. So I've revealed 10, nine, eight, seven. And you have also taken five, three and two from my list. So my list is down to the end. Number six. And I did a deep dive on this guy on a previous episode, so we don't need to belabor it too much. Walker Kessler. Yeah, he chosen this. There you go. Wow. Our fives and sixes are flipped just like that. I think it's self explanatory. Right. The Lakers paid $130 million and traded two unprotected first round picks to get him on their team. He has. I, I like Walker Kessler as a player. People can go back and listen to the segment I did about why I think this will actually work decently for the Lakers on both ends of the floor. There is no question that they overpaid for him and are now trapped with this team and have to figure out either this is the team or is there a way to pivot by trading Austin Reeves down the line or something like that because they're out of tradable assets because of the Walker Kessler deal. All that said, he's played no meaningful games in the NBA basically and barely played at all last year. And so, yeah, I mean, for fairly or not that those assets much like happened to Mikhail Bridges, they're going to hang around his neck until he. Until he proves that he was worth it and that's it. I don't know. People can go back and listen to everything I said before.
- [48:11]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah. And there's multiple kinds of pressure in this draft and I think it's fair to say everything you just said, I would add, these guys don't get compared against each other very often, but a lot with Lamelo Ball and Walker Kessler both going from these environments where winning wasn't exactly paramount for the first few years of their career. Being sort of nice stories, deep on league pass for years. Oh, that's over now. Now you're playing in Los Angeles. If reports are true, Luka Doncic lobbied to get you onto this team to the point where the front office gave out two unprotected first round picks, some swaps to get you and you played five games last year. So he has this market pressure that the Los Angeles Lakers, you know, the marquee franchise in this league can put on you more than any other team. But he also has, I think, this, this, this other pressure associated with the transaction that landed him there, fair or not. And he has to fix a defense that sucks. He has to deodorize a stank that is a stank at the point of attack with Austin Reaves and Luka Doncic. In a world with sga. Stefan Castle, Dylan Harper, Anthony Edwards, Jamal Murray, Stephen Curry, there's no shortage of guards that will punish you for having a weak point of attack defense in this conference. They are expecting a better defense in Los Angeles, but really the only piece that is going to do that for them is Walker Kessler. And that is a lot of pressure for this young man.
- [49:49]
Zach Lowe
All right, before we get to our sort of collective top fives, I only have two of my top five left. I'm going to read some honorable mentions from my list that I'm pretty confident are not going to be in your top five. Darius Garland.
- [50:02]
Kurt Goldsberry
Not on my top five.
- [50:04]
Zach Lowe
Up for an extension. Let's see how you do with the Clippers. Josh Giddy, you know, young, super exciting Bulls team is. Is he a guy or is he just a guy that's going to get traded as the Bulls remake their team under Bryson Graham's vision. Do you have any Pacers on your list, by the way?
- [50:21]
Kurt Goldsberry
I have Tyrese Halliburton in my honorable mention category.
- [50:25]
Zach Lowe
All right, table that for a second. John Morant.
- [50:29]
Kurt Goldsberry
He was on my honorable mention. Almost cracked in top 10.
- [50:33]
Zach Lowe
Obvious. I don't think it needs to really be explained. Dyson Daniels. He's only on this list because he simply cannot shoot that badly from three if the Hawks are going to be viable. It was under 20%. And I've heard some rumblings from the Hawks and people who have been in the Hawks practice facility that he's remade his jump shot or is remaking his jump shot, making tweaks to it, whatever the right terminology is. And that it's starting to look better because Dyson, Jalen Johnson, Lou Dort. Like, it's cool. It's going to be awesome defensively, like it just isn't going to work well enough offensively if he's a complete zero as a shooter. I mentioned the Cavs got Jamal Murray. Is he on your list?
- [51:15]
Kurt Goldsberry
No, he's not.
- [51:16]
Zach Lowe
Jamal Murray and Cam Johnson, just because I refuse to shut the door completely on the Nuggets as long as Jokic is upright and healthy. Khalil Ware, just not on your list, I assume. No, he's a super intriguing player who could go boom or bust. And the Bucks really needed to go boom. Shaden Sharpe fell out of the rotation in the playoffs last year. It always, his playing time always seems to go down when the games matter the most and was okay offensively last year. There's always these, these, these glimpses, these weeks, these quarters where he finds the right balance of shot selection and like making the simple play on offense as a passer and then it tends to go away and he takes a lot of long twos. Jalen Green I've talked about a lot. Is he on your list at all?
- [52:06]
Kurt Goldsberry
Honorable mention.
- [52:08]
Zach Lowe
One of the biggest wild cards in the league has A player option $36 million for 2728 season in Phoenix. The only rookie who is on my list is Darius Acuff Jr. Only because, sorry buddy, you carry the hopes and dreams of an entire franchise and its fan base on your back. There ain't nothing else there for the fans to glom onto except Keegan Murray, who's also honorable mention on my list. And with that, oh, one more, you know, Gary Trent Jr's got a contract to live up to now.
- [52:43]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah. 464. Gary.
- [52:46]
Zach Lowe
I'm comfortable being uncomfortable. Are you? Okay, that's my, that's most of my honorable mentions. I left off a couple that I think you may have on your list. But let's take a quick break and we're going to change gears for a minute. I want to save the pressure stuff for the high pressure stuff for the next episode. Let's quickly take a detour. A team that I really want to preview and look at maybe more deeply in October, but starting now. You mentioned you had Tyrese Halliburton honorable mention in your pressure rankings. I have him, Pascal Siakam and Evita Zubots, all honorable mention in my pressure rankings. And this, the whole point of this segment is like, hey, remember the Indiana Pacers, right? They were in the finals like a blink ago. They were up in game seven in Oklahoma City a blink ago. Tyrese Halbert and tears his Achilles, Miles Turner signs in Milwaukee and it's a lost season. And then now they're back. And they're back with the Vita Zubots at the five in a very controversial trade with the Clippers. And he takes the place of Miles Turner. And essentially the rest of the team is exactly the same as the team that almost won the goddamn NBA championship. And their over under on FanDuel is 43 and a half. Now the Pacers team that did almost win the championship was not a great regular season team. They started 15 and 17 Aaron Neesmith was injured at the beginning of the season. Andrew Nemhardt was injured for much of the beginning of the season. And then they went on a run that just never ended. A run of glorious chemistry. Fast pace, incredible, legendary, almost like unicorn level. Clutch play throughout the playoffs and almost won the title. And here they are at 43 and a half. Feels disrespectful to me, but I do have to say the most interesting question, maybe in The Eastern Top 5 Most Interesting Questions is this was like a rhythm team. They clearly they found and it happened with the Knicks in the playoffs. Like you see when a team just finds the right vibe isn't the right word because it's not a vibe. The right pace, the right spacing, the right chemistry and the game just becomes a feel game for them. And you see when teams have it and then you see when they lose it and everything becomes a little clunky, a little forced, just not as easy as it should be. The Pacers found that gear and just like can you just find it again? After a year off and importing a new center and Pascal Siakam's a year older, can you just find it again? Because Vegas is saying we don't think you can. At least not in the regular season. In the playoffs you have one of the great strategic coaches of all time in Rick Carlisle and a track record. But can they find it again? What do you think of this team?
- [55:40]
Kurt Goldsberry
I would take the over. I'll meet you there for sure. But I am fascinated by this team. I think Tyrese Halliburton had emerged as one of the most exciting, smartest offensive players in the league in the 2025 NBA playoffs. I don't think that's a controversial statement, but it feels like a long time ago. Doing what he did in Madison Square Garden, doing what he did against the Oklahoma City Thunder guards defense, the fact that this wide open f fast paced, offensive minded team could go head to head with OKC and just get within, you know, one game of winning it. They went 15 and 8 in the NBA playoffs. That's as close as you can get to winning a championship without actually doing it. And to have that cruel injury derail it. I think we've all sort of forgotten how good they were. I have them. I think the other reason that over under is lower though, Zach, is the Eastern Conference is a little bit better
- [56:38]
Zach Lowe
and nowhere and no one is tanking anymore presumably.
- [56:41]
Kurt Goldsberry
Anyway, that's a great point too. Great point. And I think like teams like Atlanta and Charlotte are on the come up I think you know, Orlando, it's just a deeper Eastern Conference. Not to mention the heavyweights at the top with the Knicks and the Celtics and the Sixers looming up there and the Cleveland Cavaliers. So the average game in the Eastern Conference is a lot harder now in 2026 than it was in 2024. So that's where I think that over under is low. But dude, I think we would be doing a disservice to the Pacers and their fans if we said this team is anything less than a team to watch to win the whole Eastern Conference.
- [57:16]
Zach Lowe
I think I completely agree that they're being slept on. However, if I were to explain that number and why it's so low. Number one Halliburton is coming off a missed season and there's got to be some rust. They played in a Pro Am game recently looked incredible. It's a Pro Am game. We'll see what that means. But there's got to be some rust. Siakam is now entering his like not quite mid-30s but entering the time of his career as he's eligible for an extension by the way where some decline should be. You know thought about Ben Matheran is not here anymore and I not that I was a huge fan of his. They brought in Kelly Oubre who on the one hand I can see as a fit for their team because he wants to play fast and he's a quick decision maker. Now his decision tree tends to just have one branch on it and it's score but that's fine. Like Ben Mathurin was similar and sometimes you need guys who have a different kind of decision tree than the rest of your team and at least he makes his decisions fast which is what Rick Carlisle wants. That said, is he going to. Is he going to play in the like he completely flopped in Golden State because he just couldn't play the read and react style that the warriors played. We'll see how that fits. And the point is their bench is TJ McConnell who kind of showed some age last year for the first time after being a playoff hero and a pretty stalwart backup point guard Ben Shepard kind of hasn't happened. Has had a lot of chances to happen. Hasn't happened. Kelly Oubre behind them. Jarris Walker flashes flashes of playmaking and you know, pull up shooting kind of hasn't happened. Obi Toppin looks great when they're running and was awesome in the playoffs. And then backup centers like Jay Huff and then Larry Nance behind him. I can see the Bench being not as strong as it was in their title run. And I could see them getting off to a slow start as they figure out like I think Evita Zubats is a better player than Miles Turner. I don't think that's arguable, but he's such a different kind of player offensively that that Halliburton Turner pick and pop sometimes roll, but mostly pop. With Siakam sort of darting around in open spaces and finding little crevices in the defense, that's a sea change to a guy who's really only going to roll to the basket and roll into the paint. Siakam and Zubots are both so skilled that I think that will all work eventually. Like they'll have some nice big to big sequences. Sometimes Siakam will screen and roll and like hit Zubots in the dunker spot. Pascal's a good catch and shoot, three point shooter. Not a great one, but like mid to high 30s. I think that's good enough for this to work, but I think there's going to be some growing pains. The ceiling to me is still really, really high. If Halliburton is 100% by the end of the season, Zubots gets back to the form from two seasons ago when he was borderline all NBA and Siakam has one more great year in him at least. I'm a believer in the Neesmith Nemhardt combo as role players. So I think the ceiling is still really interesting. And the coach is elite in Rick Carlisle. And really this is like if you look at their books, tons of people are eligible for extensions. So this is tbd. Like Nemhardt, toppin, Zubots, Halliburton, Siakam. Right now they're set up to be basically a two year team. Everyone but Halliburton and Neesmith and comes off the books after 27, 28 as of now. So they have that sort of like this is a clear two year we're all in. We traded what ended up being the number five pick in the draft and I just can't wait to see how it works. I think the ceiling is still really, really high.
- [60:53]
Kurt Goldsberry
I agree. I think Tyrese Halpern could be first team all NBA by the end of this year. I think he could miss all NBA. I think there's a lot of variance in his performance this year for reasons you already outlined perfectly. But my, my eyes are on him. That's why he's on this pressure list for me as an honorable mention. And you know, one of my favorite things About Rick Carlile is he is. He has coached effectively in many different ways. When you look at the course of his career, it's really amazing. The coach in Detroit one way, Indiana another way, in Dallas a completely different way. I think he's the exact right coach I'd want to go from Miles Turner to Zubac with. He's not going to say, oh, this is how we do it. We're going to run pick and pops with Zubac. Like, that's not what's going to happen. If there's a concern for me, it's that does Zubacz fit that wide open pace in space we're running up and down that I think really suits Tyrese and Pascal Siakam and some of those role players you mentioned. But ultimately I trust the infrastructure, I trust Rick Carlisle and I trust Tyrese Halliburton to have some alignment on the floor. I think this will be a top 10 offense, middle of the pack defense, and I think that's good enough to be four, five in the Eastern Conference. And above that, 43 and a half.
- [62:08]
Zach Lowe
Yazzu is a much different player than Miles Turner and I think the Pacers are. I think a lot of teams are. Like, Sam Prezi talked about this when, when he kind of had to trade Lou Dort. He said something to the effect, I'll paraphrase of, like, you just can't keep playing the same way every year. Even if you've been successful playing that way. Sometimes you just have to change because you have to keep the league on its toes a little bit. I think there's a little bit of that with the Pacers going from Miles Turner to ivitzubots. Let's get tougher, more physical, more stout at the rim. And I do think, despite the fact that he's not a jump shooter like Miles Turner, that he has better feel on offenses. Sort of like when the ball finds me in open space, can I make the right decision quickly? Miles Turner never really got there and it was exposed a little bit in the finals in that regard. And so I'm optimistic I wouldn't pick him to win the East. But we'll get back to that in part two of this podcast, which will air at some point soon. All right, that's it for part one of this two part Zach Lowe Show. Thank you to Kurt Goldsberry. He'll be back, of course, for part two. Thanks to Oscar, Billy and Mike on production. Thank you all for listening to and or watching the Zach Lowe Show. Stay tuned for part two, 21 or over and President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President, D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling Problem Call 1-800-Gambler or 1-800-My Reset, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincenetic or is it mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland? Hope is here. Visit Gambling Helpline m a t.org or call 800-327-5505, OH for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text HOPE NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.