The Zach Lowe Show (The Ringer)

Episode: Reaction to the Kawhi Leonard Story, Contract Updates, and Most Improved Player Predictions

Guest: Kirk Goldsberry
Date: September 4, 2025

Episode Overview

In this richly detailed episode, Zach Lowe and guest Kirk Goldsberry dive deep into the potential scandal surrounding the LA Clippers and Kawhi Leonard, sparked by explosive reporting from Pablo Torre. The conversation also covers impactful contract updates, the evolving NBA All-Star Game format, and predictions for the 2025-26 NBA Most Improved Player award. The tone is candid, analytical, and at times darkly humorous, befitting the host and guest’s reputations for league-wide insight and behind-the-scenes perspective.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kawhi Leonard & Clippers Cap Circumvention Story

Background & Timeline

• [01:31–10:57] Zach Lowe recounts the timeline outlined in Pablo Torre’s reporting:
  • 2019: Kawhi Leonard signs with Clippers after winning title with Raptors. Notorious negotiations led by Kawhi's uncle, Dennis Robertson, asking teams for "preposterously illegal things" (e.g., equity, extra sponsorships).
  • 2019: NBA institutes stricter anti-tampering rules, referencing issues like family members requesting improper benefits.
  • Aug. 2021: Leonard, despite a torn ACL, signs a max extension with Clippers.
  • Sept.–Nov. 2021: Steve Ballmer invests $50M in Aspiration (a tree-planting, now-exposed scam company), which immediately strikes a $300M sponsorship deal with Clippers; Kawhi forms 'KL2Aspire’ LLC.
  • April 2022: Aspiration and Leonard agree to a $28M, 4-year “no-show” endorsement deal—Kawhi allegedly does nothing in exchange for the money. The deal is void if Leonard is not with the Clippers.
  • Aspiration eventually goes bankrupt. Documents in their bankruptcy file flag the connection. Pablo Torre’s podcast features disguised Aspiration workers stating they were told the payment’s purpose was to “circumvent the salary cap.”

Why This Is Explosive

• Kirk Goldsberry [12:02]:
  “Biggest potential cap circumvention story of our lifetime in the NBA... you get paid four years and $28 million to never do anything? It’s a big red flag.”
• Notable Comparison: Frequent reference to the infamous Joe Smith–Timberwolves scandal, which resulted in severe penalties when proven.

Legal and League Reaction

• Zach's Analysis [14:24; 20:46]:
  The general sentiment among league owners and executives is that the NBA must fully investigate and potentially “lay the hammer down.” The onus is now on the Clippers and Kawhi to “prove their innocence.”

• Clippers Denial: issued a statement denying any wrongdoing, emphasizing “plausible deniability” – Ballmer’s investment was separate from Leonard’s endorsement deal.

• Legal Perspective [20:46]:
  Sports law experts (citing Michael McCann) caution this case will be much harder to prove than the Joe Smith case, as it’s rooted in indirect, third-party endorsements.

• Key CBA Clause Read by Zach [25:31]:

  “Such an agreement with a sponsor... may be inferred where such compensation... is substantially in excess of the fair market value…”
  The legal gray area is whether the team must orchestrate the overpayment, or if mere occurrence is enough for penalty.

Broader Implications

• Goldsberry [28:41]:
  Ballmer’s 'hyper-wealth' already pushed the league to create the second apron. The rest of the owners are “threatened” and may push hard for consequences.

• Zach [33:12]:
  Warns about the dangerous precedent if the only punishment is a second-round pick:
  “What's stopping [other owners] from throwing an endorsement deal at my max level player?”

• Quote [38:42; Goldsberry]:
  “The integrity of the league is on the line. That is a direct quote I got on the phone from an executive yesterday.”

Next Steps & Board of Governors

• The coming Board of Governors meeting will be dominated by this issue. The hosts both expect forceful calls for a “serious, thorough” investigation.
• Predicted Outcome: If the NBA can’t find a “smoking gun,” they may remain in gray area, but pressure—both public and peer—will be immense for significant action.

2. Contract Updates

Cam Thomas Qualifying Offer & Restricted Free Agency

• [45:38–49:19] Brooklyn’s Cam Thomas signed his qualifying offer after a lukewarm market, costing himself $5–8M short-term but betting on more cap space and opportunities next summer.
• Zach [48:01]:
  “Players like this aren't as valuable as they used to be. We're at a place in the NBA where those kinds of scorers are being held up to a more strict rubric.”
• Goldsberry [50:31]:
  Attributes the lack of offers to the “second apron era,” where teams scrutinize whether a scorer “really affects winning.”

PJ Washington Extension

• [51:13–55:04] Signs 4yr/$90M extension with Dallas. Seen as a fair, prime-years deal for a versatile, valuable player, likely in a sixth-man role.

Mavericks Outlook

• Discussion on new roster (notably, losing Doncic), prospects for Cooper Flagg, and the high cost of Dallas's upcoming payroll.
• Both analysts see the Mavericks as a playoff wild card—potential for an exciting team if Kyrie is healthy and young players develop faster than expected.

3. All-Star Game Format Changes

• [56:50–63:08] Announced move to a three-team round robin: two 8-man USA squads and one world squad for 24 total All Stars.
• Zach [56:50]:
  “USA vs the world may be our last best hope for a competitive All Star Game.”
• Both hosts are skeptical this will solve the game’s competitive malaise but see it as “better than nothing.” Goldsberry wonders about nationality-based team chemistry and snubbed players if international talent overflows.
• General nostalgia for the old All-Star Game, and suggestions including high-stakes one-on-one competitions or rich sponsorship payouts (jokingly referencing Aspiration and $28M).

4. Most Improved Player Predictions

Zach assigns three predictive “tiers” for potential 2025-26 winners:

Tier 1: Obvious Candidates

• Goldsberry: Amen Thompson (Houston; defense, highlight plays, growing exposure)
• Zach: Ausar Thompson (Detroit; missed time last year, poised for a leap)

Tier 2: Under-the-Radar Players

• Goldsberry: Jalen Johnson (Atlanta; two-way forward, emerging as Atlanta’s most impactful young player)
• Zach: Isaiah Jackson (Indiana; coming off injury, new starting opportunity at center)

Tier 3: Star to Superstar Leap

• Goldsberry: Derrick White (Boston; bigger role with Tatum out, expect statistical jump)

• Zach: Chet Holmgren (Oklahoma City; offensive game set to expand on a loaded OKC squad; others considered: Wembanyama, Banchero, Franz Wagner)

• Zach’s Final Thought [72:01]:
  “Most of these guys don't end up winning—but every year, someone says we should give [MIP] to a star who becomes a superstar.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “This is the biggest potential cap circumvention story of our lifetime in the NBA.”
  — Kirk Goldsberry [12:02]

• “The onus is now on the Clippers... At this point, the NBA doesn't need a text message or an email. The Clippers need to explain this away more than ‘we didn’t know.’”
  — Zach Lowe [14:24]

• “The integrity of the league is on the line. That is a direct quote I got on the phone from an executive yesterday.”
  — Kirk Goldsberry [38:42]

• “What's stopping... another hyper rich guy from doing something like that?”
  — Kirk Goldsberry [34:06]

• On All-Star format:
  “USA vs the world may be our last best hope for a competitive All Star Game. I don’t know why it has to be round robin.”
  — Zach Lowe [56:50]

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |--------------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:31–10:57 | Breakdown of Kawhi/Clippers/Aspiration timeline | | 10:57–13:53 | Worker allegations; industry context/comparisons | | 13:53–20:46 | Reactions from execs and legal framing; “plausible deniability”| | 20:46–25:31 | How the CBA covers circumvention; legal gray zones | | 28:41–32:21 | Ballmer’s wealth, owner politics, and CBA context | | 33:12–36:13 | Consequence precedent, integrity stakes | | 38:42–41:25 | “Integrity of the league;” Board of Governors looking ahead | | 45:38–49:19 | Cam Thomas QO and changing value of “bucket-getters” | | 51:13–56:25 | PJ Washington extension & Dallas Mavericks future | | 56:50–63:08 | NBA All-Star Game format shakeup; skepticism and nostalgia | | 64:19–76:17 | Most Improved Player award picks by tier | | 77:12–end | Closing notes, preseason writing plans, episode wrap |

Closing Summary

This episode offers a vital, engaging dissection of the highest-stakes NBA off-season story—potential corporate collusion and cap circumvention—with Zach and Kirk parsing evidence, league culture, and legal precedent. The caper around Kawhi’s “$28M to do nothing” is contextualized as not just Clippers schadenfreude, but a possible league-defining scandal. The hosts also analyze contract market forces and award projections, keeping the discussion timely and relevant for fans poised at the start of an eventful season.

In short:

• The Clippers-Kawhi-Aspiration scandal is unfolding and could be the most significant NBA governance case in years.
• League leadership and owners are under pressure to investigate, with the Board of Governors meeting expected to be a crucible.
• In contract news, restricted free agency’s limitations are evident, and Dallas is reshaping itself post-Doncic.
• The All-Star Game gets another overhaul—sounding like a last-ditch attempt to regain relevance.
• Most Improved Player predictions highlight a league rich with young talent ready to break out.

"The integrity of the league is on the line."
— a phrase that may define Adam Silver's next steps and the league's posture for years to come.