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- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. The best passers see every angle of the floor to make the perfect assist. And State Farm is no different. They know the game inside and out and look at every angle to help set you up with a plan that fits your life and budget. Get the coverage that's right for you. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. This episode is brought to you by new era the 90s weren't just a decade, they were a moment. And now it's back. Introducing the new era. NBA Hardwood Classics 90s edition. Bringing back the golden era of basketball with iconic teams like the Bulls, the Rockets, the spurs, the Suns, the Pistons. Yeah, that's the 90s. That could be the teal horse Pistons. The Hornets are the classic 90s team. The original teal stuff. The Hornet buzzing around any old school Bulls, Warriors. That's the kind of stuff that I love. That's kind of NBA Jam kind of stuff. That's what we're talking about. Plus 90s all star games caps complete with host team side patches for that authentic throwback feel. Available in a wide range of fitted and adjustable styles. Visit neweracap.com ringer to shop now and use the one time code Ringer for 20% off your first order. Coming up on the Zach Lowe Show Live from New York City. The spurs are back in the NBA Finals with a thrilling and somewhat bizarre game 4 win in Madison Square Garden. A strange night with the President in attendance. Lots of delays, all of that. It got dicey toward the end after an Annobi 3 and a very dicey inbounds play. But Steph Castle knocks down two free throws. He had a big three. Wemby had a monster game. We got David Jacoby and Kurt Goldsberry here. We're going to do a three man weave and we talk about everything. What did the spurs do? Adjustment wise to sort of unlock Wemby rolling to the rim. How can the Knicks counter that? We get into the X's and O's. We get into the crowd, the environment, all of it. And we have a series. There's nothing I love more than a Game 4 of the Finals when it's 2:1. It is the ultimate swing game of the series. Credit to the spurs last night for coming out and winning in a very hostile environment in a strange game and a strange night. A night like no other in New York City. So we have David and Kirk here, Jacobe and Goldsberry to break it all down.
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B
That's all.
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A
Coming up on the Zach Low show, all things NBA Finals 21 Knicks pivotal game 4. I cannot wait for Wednesday night. Welcome to the Zach Lowe Show. We have a series. The San Antonio spurs, with their backs against the wall and the President in the building. Oh, boy. Came back and won Game 3 in Madison Square Garden. It's 2 1. They needed at least a split. This is the power of home court advantage that all the spurs really need to hope for is get it to three two Knicks. Now they want to be three two Swervers, that's fine. But if it's three two Knicks, they win. You win game five at home, put all the pressure on the Knicks to close it out in Game 6 at Madison Square Garden. They have given themselves a chance to at least do that with an awesome win. Wemby with a 32 point masterpiece in the biggest game of his career. Steph Castle with a three to put the spurs up by seven on a completely dead possession. And then two clutch free throws after a frantic Knicks rally and a sideline on a bounce play that looked like it might be a disaster. And then Castle knocks down the two free throws. Game over. And we get a delicious game four. Game four. Well, first of all, we have Kurt Goldsberry and we have David Jacoby. We have a whole full crew. Take. Is this the freaking finals? How you guys doing?
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C
Great. How are you?
- [03:49]
A
I'm good. I got out of the arena last night. I got into the arena and out of the arena. It took two hours to get in. Fine, I get it. We're good with that once. We're good with it once. Twice. After a loss in game three, I'm not sure how Knicks fans would respond to that one, but we're good. We'll deal with it at once. The way out was a complete mess. I saw a woman get arrested on 32nd street because cops wouldn't let her walk north. And she was not happy about it. And she kind of went out one of the cops. And it was one of these scenes where it was like, oh, my God, what's going to happen? There's like a million people here. And it was a fun game. And now we get. We get a game 4. I would argue game 4 of a 21 finals maybe my favorite sort of swing game of the Finals. Because, look, if it's 2:2, we know the winner of game three, it's game five. Rather it's 3:2, they have a chance to win. And then after that, every game's an elimination. Game, a potential closeout game. Those are like known commodities. Two one has this glorious air of mystery where it's either going to be 2 2, spurs have rallied back and tied it up or 31 and the Knicks have a commanding lead. And so we get to live in this unknown for a couple more days. I can talk all about the atmosphere at the game last night, which was strange and loud. I actually was a slightly dis. Like, not dis. I would say it was like a B plus, A minus crowd. I expected an A plus intensity crowd. We can all go through the theories for that, including that they priced out all the real fans. It was good, but it was not great. Jacoby, you're emotionally invested. I had a couple of moments when I thought in the fourth quarter, even if the spurs had a lead, oh my God, are, are the Knicks going to do this and go up 30 and it really is going to be a party. Did you have moments where you thought the Knicks were going to pull the game out?
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B
You've actually already mentioned it. It was that when Benyama possession, I think it was over a minute before Castle hit the three. That possession wasn't going anywhere. It kind of felt like he just wanted to dribble out the shot clock and just take 24 seconds off the clock and not even attempt to shot the basket. No one was moving, nothing was happening. And I was thinking to myself, this is another late game collapse for the spurs. That was outside in the second half. That was the only time that I felt like, oh, this could actually happen again and we could go up 30 in the series. But like, I think just to respond to your crowd thing, it was a very strange day in New York City yesterday. Just like all around, you know, because you're getting these reports of like these glass structures being put up like around like eight city blocks. And then like Shams dropped an airpod and got ran up on by security and people are getting there three hours early and like the city's on fire. It's a Monday too, which is kind of like a low energy day in the city. And it was a strange crowd. I think that a lot of the reason, and I don't want to lead with fouls and refs or whatever, but like it was just such a choppy second half. There was no flow to the game. There were no runs. There's just really nothing to get up and excited for because you're watching reviews and you're watching free throws the whole entire second half.
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A
Yeah, the replays completely sucked the energy out of the building. I don't mean to say it was not a good crowd. It was a good crowd. It just wasn't as like a feat beaver pitch crowd as I kind of expected it would be. But the endless reviews. Look, the challenges were all challengeable plays. Some won, some loss like smart coaching. It just completely drained the energy out of the game which is that, that happens. And I just, my only commentary is my, my personal experience. I just want to get out of the way because it must be mentioned. My personal experience when they showed the President on the Jumbotron was like I'm gonna to my ears it sounded like 75, 25 boos. It did not sound like 100% boos raining down on the President. There was some cheers, there was some screaming. I just, it wasn't. People were debating in the PUC tweets like oh, booed out of the building. It did not sound like to me he was booed out of the building. Kurt Goldsberry we talked about the Castle 3. I talked about the out of bounds play. Knicks up two. I'm sorry, spurs up two with nine and a half seconds left. When Castle inbounds and throws it to Dear and Fox who has to tippy toe around the half court line pass it right back to Castle. And if Jalen Brunson were actually his listed height, he might have been able to deflect that pass. But alas he is not and he did not deflect it. When you went, did you, when did you fear? Even as the spurs open up like an 8 point lead, etc. When did you or did you fear at all like oh, the Knicks might
- [08:33]
B
actually pull this off.
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C
Oh, it was terrifying. When OG hit the corner three at the end of the game I was still like oh, the Knicks are going to steal this. Like they are so terrifying. I'm slightly rooting for the spurs. No shocker there. But I love this Knicks team and one of the reasons I love them is they're so cohesive. They never give up. They play so well. You know, shooting has been their strong suit all series long and all season long, all playoffs long. But they started off that fourth quarter, Zach, with with just a terrible three point shooting exhibition. I think Castle's three was the first made three of the quarter. I think the teams had combined to miss 18 or 16 threes. It was to Jacoby's point very choppy. Not exactly just shot making on display, but when Wemby blocked Shamet at the rim too, I thought that was another that Was another big boy moment for him, just asserting himself. I've always said if they're going to win this series, he has to be the best player in the series. He wasn't in the first two games. He was in game three. And the stat that really epitomizes this to me, Zach Lowe, they had one alley oop in the first two games to Wemby. They connected on four of those in game three, most of them early. Darren Fox not making his shots, not playing great, but he is making passes. They had four lobs and they got Wemby eight dunks and layups. And that to me really captures that he was a different dude in this win than he was in those losses.
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A
Yeah, I mean they clearly came in with the directive of just throw the fucking ball up.
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B
Like there was a.
- [10:12]
A
Where they blitzed Castle at half court and he just like. And I thought Castle, he had, he had two or three bad turnovers and a bad three shot foul on an obi. And those are like the. He's become, I think Castle has become prematurely a little bit of a polarizing player. Like, I don't like when Bill plays the Russ comparison card on him because he's just so young and I think he's just so big and so physical and plays so hard and smart defensively that I just. He. His. His mistakes are loud and that's rusty, but I just think he's been awesome. And I thought for the most part he played a very under control game. And there were a lot of plays where he would get toward the paint, into the paint. And instead of forcing up a really tough shot at the rim, which he's been doing for the most part in the series, he would just make the simple kick out pass to Harper who hits a three or then swings it to Fox who drives and throws a lob to Wembanyama, all that stuff. But they clearly had a directive. Throw the lobby. I thought Wemby set better screens, which is something that Stan Van Gundy hit right after game one. Like if you're going to get set, if you, if you want to get clean rolls to the rim, you got to hit people and force your guy to engage on the ball handler and give you a lane to the rim. I thought, I thought he did that. And 55% of his field goal attempts came at the rim last night, according to cleaning glass. That's by far his highest number in the series. And look, a lot of the game is WEMBY 32 points, CAT 11 points and felt a Little bit like a little bit like an afterthought. That said, The Knicks scored 120 points per 100 possessions which is a very good number. And that feels a little, I don't want to say misleading but I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that because that number is good. The Knicks had like a really good offensive performance. What they got was the Josh Hard game and it's always painful when they waste the Josh Hart game. When he's hits threes they almost always win and Anunoby just continues to hit everything in sight. Anunoby for the playoffs is averaging 20 points a game on I had it somewhere and now I lost it. It's like 57% shooting 47% on threes or something like that and like two and a half stocks a game. He's been. It's hard to argue he's been their best player because Brunson just does so much with the ball. Brunson is shooting 37% for the series and we'll talk about his over dribbling I think later. But Anunoby is awesome and but I do think that number is a little overblown. I'll tell you what I thought when I made in my notes. Oh was when Wemby missed that lefty layup with like 345 to go in the game off an offensive rebound that got kicked to him and it was just, it was uncontested and he bonked it and then Brunson came down and drew a foul and made it 108, 102. That's what I thought. Oh boy, that's going to be. If they lose this game that's going to be the turnover again from game two. But they, they pulled it out and yeah, what else? I mean like what else, what else did you notice Kirk? Like what else did the spurs change if anything in this game?
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C
Well, the other moment, the other oh shit moment for the Spurs I felt like was going to swing the whole series was when that four point play correctly by the way got reversed. Keldon Johnson, what are you doing? Pushing Mitchell Robinson into Victor Weminyama. But they look like a Larry Johnson style four point play for the spurs and then they wiped it off. It just felt like that that was going to be the moment that the series turned. But credit to the Spurs. Another point on OG Anobi and Brunson before I get quickly to the spurs and I want to ask Jacoby about this. OG's incredible. Towns is playing great. Are we seeing too much Brunson his usage has surged. His usage in the regular season is 30. It's his true shooting percentage in the regular season is 58. It's down to 46. And you can say that's playoffs Jacobs. But for me, in the context of what Zach's laying out there with OG shooting the shit out of it, Towns being great, Bridges being hot. Are we seeing too much Bronson? Like there's a path for the spurs to get back into the Zach. If like they did to Ant man and like they did to sga, they can sort of take that lead guard and make him an inefficient scorer and the other guys have don't have enough. The thing with the Knicks is that supporting cast is so good that, that that group is just not getting enough shots. So if the, if the, if the spurs are able to steal game two, I'm actually going to look at, at that shot distribution on the Knicks box score Jacoby and say are we seeing hero ball from Brunson in the face of great supporting cast members?
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B
Well, a couple things about that. Think about the way that you were previewing this series and the way that I thought about this series. I said before this series and this isn't, you know, groundbreaking, I was like this is not a Brunson series. They've got multiple guys that are bigger and stronger and great defenders that can move their feet. This is an OG in town series. Like they're, the Knicks are kind of like a little bit bigger two through two through, you know, four than everybody else knows. Bigger than Win Benyama.
- [15:23]
C
Yeah.
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B
And I felt that really this was going to be less Brunson dribbling around and trying to get inside and little Euro stepping and shooting one footed fadeaways. Like I thought there'd be a lot less of that than there is now. And I thought it was interesting because everyone's talking about Mike Brown talking about the fouls, but he had a quote after the game. He said, we just wanted to stand around and watch one guy dribble a ton and then when the ball got passed there were no quick decisions by the guy receiving the basketball. And like what happened to all these like Brunson gets off the ball, goes down, sets a screen for the guy in the corner and then he cuts and then Brunson cuts off of that and he's moving off the ball. Like the stuff that they were doing in that 13 game win streak was not hero ball Brunson. And down the stretch we go to that under, under five minutes.
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C
That's just.
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B
That's just what happens. And it works. But I think that there's a little too much of that in the third quarter, in the fourth quarter when he
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A
was in, I think the third quarter, the beginning of the third quarter, when the spurs were down seven and the crowd was really at a fever pitch at going into halftime. And that's the cool thing about this series, by the way. I don't know what the biggest lead has been in this series, but every time any team looks like they're about to wrest control of the game, the other team responds and gets right back into it. It's been like these games just do not let up. They're so intense. The biggest lead has probably been like 12, I think 14 for a hot second in game two. But it. That got erased immediately. But yeah, the third quarter, Brunson came out and I just didn't like their process at all. I thought he was just sort of wasting time hunting bad matchups, taking bad shots, and look to give this. And Brunson, by the way, for the series, he's averaging 27 points, four assists, four turnovers. His assisted turnovers are exactly equal, 37%. And again, grain of salt. Cat through three games is plus 31. Brunson through three games is minus 13. Something is just a little off. Something was a little off kilter with the process last night. Too many tough shots, too much dribbling, too many possessions, where they just wasted time getting to the point of everything. And part of that is the. To the. The. The. The two ends of the floor are so different in terms of like, Knicks offense versus spurs defense versus the other side of the floor. Knicks offense versus spurs defense. You kind of have to watch it with one eye on Wembanyama at all times and your other eye trying to follow the ball. And I think this, the spurs are just mixing up where Wembanyama is. And the simplest way to put it is when. When. When it's like starters versus starters. They don't want Wemby on Towns, but they also don't want him definitively not on Towns, because they're scared of Towns posting up their smaller wing players. And that's all they have in their starting lineup compared to Towns anywhere, smaller wing players. And so they have Wemby just sort of tagging out, tagging out, tagging out, hanging out in the corner. And the Knicks are spending time figuring out how do we want to set up the chessboard to best attack that. And sometimes they did it really smartly, like they'll have like. Ideally, the ideal spurs possession is Josh Hart stands in the corner and Wemby can stand there and it's risk free and he's guarding Hart, but he's just really guarding that area. And the Knicks are not putting Hart there. They'll, if he starts in the corner, they'll switch him out and put a shooter like Anunoby in the corner and they'll move Cat around and they'll try to find a time and a possession where Victor is on one side of the floor and it's two Knicks versus two spurs. And then they'll run like a Brunson Towns pick and roll. If they, if they see Victor is toggled onto Towns, they'll attack that matchup that way and try to end like, you know who's really good at this and when the ball started popping is Alvarado. Alvarado comes in and he's looking for Cat right away and he's looking for those matchups right away. And God forbid, if Cornet is in the game trying to guard Cat, it's death. And they just went to that over and over again in the third quarter. But I think like the plus and minus of this for Wembanyama is this is a tough matchup for him defensively because the Knicks make it hard. They have one of the greatest stretch big men of all time. They move hard around, they move the chess pieces around. And that's when they get into that blender of like the, the kind of blunder that led to that Wemby epic block with four minutes left in the game. But that's when they're at their best, when they get to that matchup early, trigger the action, and then everyone else gets involved. And I thought they kind of lost that a little bit and that's why Kat kind of disappeared from the game. And I'm fascinated Jacoby, like they, they have to get him more involved again without kind of overdoing the mismatch hunting and all that. And that's hard. I mean, they're facing a very creative defense.
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B
I this morning watched all of Cat's shot attempts and it was, it was really interesting because games one and two, if he had Wembanyama in front of him at the three point line, I felt very confident in his ability to sort of muscle and, and just ugly his way into the lane and get a layup and you know, and one thing I've learned in this is defensive play of the year, but not click on his feet. And when he's closing out. You can get past him. You know what I mean?
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A
Og OG loves. OG loves it.
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C
Yeah.
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A
OG loves og.
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B
So the difference between the. Oh, that shamet block was so frustrating because OG has mastered having wembanyama behind you, but then just sneaking the ball over the top of the rib with two hands, like just sort of like making it just quick enough and like sneaky enough. But then sham is trying this like finger roll thing and that's just going to get eaten up by him. But Towns, when I watched his 10 shot attempts this morning, wembanyama was, I want to say around him for one or two of those. And a lot of it was just, oh, Cornet's here, let me go or I've got, I've got someone else on me. I've got a size advantage. Let me go. And I thought that in game one and two it was almost the opposite and, and I think obviously they have him on heart now, but there was something about Towns last night. Lack of aggression that it just, it just can't. They're not, it's not winning if he takes 10 shots. Not going to happen.
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A
Yeah. And I thought there's some pet actions they could run for him that they did in game two that got him off for some threes and they didn't. They kind of let go of that. The other thing, the spurs finally made Brunson work a lot more defensively last night. They put him in, according to the tracking genius IQ. They put him in 21 ball screens as the guy defending the screener. That had been, I think 24 combined in the first two games. And you saw Harper go at him a lot using Visell as the screener and he would split and drive and Harper five of 18. But the power he brings to the game is just something that no other. I mean, even Castle is a little bit more deliberate than Harper in terms of just straight line power. It is interesting, by the way, the spurs did not play the three point guards together much in the regular season. They played 11 minutes together last night. You can see the spurs trying. I mean this is, this is what the finals is supposed to be in. A lead opponent drags you out of your comfort zone. And like champagne didn't really do too much last night. Keldon Johnson, they kind of can't decide if he's good for this series or bad for this series. I think there's a place for him in this series because he's the one non wemby guy that can physically at least make Towns work A little bit. And so when he and Wemby are on the floor together, they can put him on Towns and have Wemby instead of doing all this fancy stuff. If Hart's on the floor, just guard Hart and actually think. I think the spurs are taking Wemby off of Hart a little bit too easily. Like, so what? Hart moves up from the corner to set a ball screen for Brunson and Anobi moves to the corner to replace him. You don't have to stay on an obi. You can still guard Josh Hart. And yeah, they'll do a Hart, Brunson, hard pick and roll. Just drop back, hang out in the paint. Like, Josh Hart's not going to hurt you from out there. I think they're overdoing it with that a little bit. But yeah, the, the chess match in the series is awesome. And those three point guards together, the numbers aren't good, but it's interesting that they're playing them, they're playing them more. And I actually like the Harper Fox v. Wemby like that, that those four guys together, that's a good mix of defense, offense, size. But man, this is just. All these games do not let up. They're so fun to be at. Last night was a little bit weird to be at, I guess. Jacoby, we should have the officiating conversation now because the spurs have a big free throw edge in the series. They had a huge free throw edge in the second half last night, 24 to 8. Mike Brown did the press conference thing where he's like, I'm going to give the spurs credit. They played great. I'm not going to blame it on the officials, but watch me now blame it on the officials and say, this is like a historically anomalous thing that I've never seen in my entire life. I never thought I would see it. But I'm not blaming the officials, but if they do that again in game four, it's going to be tough for us. But I'm not blaming them. But if they do that. He actually said if they do that, what if they do. What if they call foul? So I, you know, what did you think, Jacoby? Because you're, you're, you're the Knicks perspective here to some degree. Like what, what did you think of the officiating?
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B
Well, I'm on like 17 Knicks group chats and I just felt like as a fan base, there was just way too much focus on the referees. And I think that, that you said like it was an A minus, B plus crowd I think that the crowd got into their heads too. Like on that Bridges call on the rebound when he hooked his arm. Like the one thing I'll say about this in defense of Mike Brown and the Knicks is I re watched like the fourth quarter calls because one of the biggest things was those early fourth quarter calls.
- [24:47]
A
Like two minutes into the court, all
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B
of a sudden, yeah, all of a sudden they're in the bonus and those were fouls. Every time you watch clear foul play, they're fouls. But it's also inconsistent with everything I've seen in this series. Every time when Benyama goes to set a screen, Towns has got two arms around him. And anytime you try to move, your defender is just all over you. So the physicality bar has been raised so high that I just felt those early calls, which were definitely fouls, were just sort of like inconsistent with everything I've seen up to this point. And it really put them in a tough spot in the beginning of the fourth quarter.
- [25:26]
A
I didn't have any problem with those calls. The consistency is like. It's impossible to keep track of what's called, what's not called. It's just a whirlwind of physicality. The three polarizing ones were Wembanyama mushing Brunson to the ground and not getting called for anything, which I didn't notice in real time from my seat at the ceiling of Madison Square Garden. I can almost touch the seal, which, by the way, I like those seats. A lot of media complain about them. They're a great bird's eye view of the game, but you miss certain, like it's hard to see that happening. And that was probably a foul. Obviously a foul. Kirk, what did you think of the Castle smashes into Brunson and they review it for a flagrant and decide that it's not a flagrant.
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C
Yeah, that's a good one. First of all, as a Spurs guy, I mean, Wemby should have been called for that foul on Brunson. It was a nasty sort of aggro move. Not quite. Not quite the.
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A
Let's not go with arrested after last night's game because. Because there was a lot of. There was a lot of police action.
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C
Don't wear a Spurs jersey and Brian park to my friends from Texas. But I'll say this dude that reminded me exactly of Carter Bryant crashing against Shea Gilgis Alexander a couple times last round where these guys are clearly instructed to be physical attack closing. And then, you know, he shoved Jalen Brunson. That's not in question. It could have been a foul. Yeah, probably.
- [26:58]
A
I mean, it was a foul. It was called a foul. Flagrant foul?
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C
I don't think so. But then, like, I was on a text thread with some Knicks fans, and I was like, this one's gonna piss you off. Because then I forget who was shooting the three, but Brunson got in the landing zone and they went to the monitor, and I was like, this is going to be a flagrant.
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A
That's the one.
- [27:18]
C
I like minutes. I didn't like minutes after that. I watched that one.
- [27:21]
A
I watched that one like, ten times last night when I got back to my hotel room. And I don't know that I've seen a landing spot foul quite like that. He jumps, like, sideways. He jumps toward the sideline because that's the angle Brunson is coming from. And he doesn't like his latitude or whatever, longitude, whatever. Whatever the right one is doesn't change. Like, he jumps straight toward the sideline. And I'm not really even sure what else you're supposed to do in that situation. So I didn't like that. I thought that was a bad call. It is worth noting The Knicks were 25th in free throw rate in the regular season. Like, that's. It's like. It's like when the Pistons would complain about free throw discrepancy. It's like, are you going to acknowledge that you led the league in fouls in the regular season, or is that just not going to be acknowledged? So, but that call I didn't like. The other thing is, like, those. I mean, the Knicks had won the turnover battle in the first two games. That's a. That's a. That's a variable that they are built to win and have to win to win the series. And they were minus five in turnovers last night. And some of them were just fucking boneheaded throws right to the other team. Like, remember that one? I mean, this one sticks in my mind because it was a live ball turnover that led directly to an AND one where Clarkson just picked Devin Vassell's pocket in the right corner. Great moment for the Knicks. Like a guy who. By the way, monster game for Jordan Clarkson off the bench. A guy you don't necessarily expect much of. Certainly not on defense. Cookies on Devin Vassell, and then throws an outlet pass to nobody except Steph Castle, who then gets an AND one. I mean, that's like an instant gifted three points in a game that comes down to the wire. Their turnovers were a little sloppy. And I don't know. Jacoby, what else you want to talk about in this game? There's. There's a lot to get into.
- [29:06]
B
I have to have this conversation with you and Kurt. When Wimanyama elbow Nas Reed like that, I got really angry. And I was surprised that there was no retaliation in that game or the next game from anybody wearing a Timberwolves jersey. And my blood is still a little bit boiling about this Brunson thing because I've seen it a million times.
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A
Which Brunson thing? The mush.
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B
Which one do you think I'm talking about?
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A
The mush.
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B
Yeah. What is he responding to? What is that a retaliation for?
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A
Like.
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B
Like, I think he. I think he's emotionally can't control himself, honestly. And I really. I really. I started drumming up a dislike for him like this summer, and now it's just at a million. Like, I cannot stand this guy. I hate his outfits. I hate his face. Wow.
- [29:57]
C
His hair.
- [29:58]
B
I hate everything about him. I just think he does such a try hard curated.
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A
I.
- [30:04]
B
When he goes to the park and he's drawing in the park with his friend, he's like sketching a bush with like a graphite pencil. I just can't stand it. And like, in the idea that Mike Brown won't be like, hey, Huck, Porty, go in for 30 seconds and get kicked out of the game because he just basically mushed, push punched, whatever, our best player. And then Castle comes and like, oh, whether it's a flagrant or a foul, it is the exact same thing that Carter Bryant did to Shay. And then we have the Victor Wembanyama whispering in Biyombo and Plumlee's ears as they go in. Like, I just am really, really. I respect him as a basketball player and I respect the work ethic. I'm not saying he's a bad basketball player. I'm just. You can't disagree with him when I say I can't fucking stand. Victor Weminyama cannot disagree with me. That's my opinion.
- [30:58]
A
Look at your opinion. Kirk, would you like to respond to this?
- [31:01]
C
Yeah. I mean, one of the great things
- [31:03]
A
about how is your drawing game? How is your do? Are you.
- [31:05]
C
Do you.
- [31:06]
A
Do Cole, do you crayon colored pencil? Like, what do you like landscape?
- [31:11]
C
What was that? Gramercy Park. Where was he sitting? I think it was a. It was a fenced off park, right? So that he could be the key to get in.
- [31:18]
B
They're very strict about it.
- [31:19]
C
I'm a charcoal man. I mean, call me old fashioned, but I'm a charcoal man. Look, the other thing, the. The Wemby side of this argument, and I'll take it, is if you watch these playoffs, from the Portland series, through the Minnesota series, through the, okay, series, C series, and a little bit here, we're seeing a lot of grabbing and holding a Victor Emanyama in plays that spurs fans would point out and be like, dude, these are fouls. If they're against Brunson, Nobody can hold Brunson like this every time he goes into the paint. Nobody can just yank on Shay Gil. Just Alexander's arm every time there's a loose ball in the air.
- [31:58]
A
I have to stop you at the mention of Shay Gilgis, Alexander. I have to. Did you guys see Sam Presti's. End of.
- [32:05]
C
End of year, please hold the score on this. Yes.
- [32:08]
A
I. I cannot let this. I cannot let this slide. So Sam does incredible press conferences after every season. He answers every question. And the Thunder have been awesome about. Just like, they don't duck. They don't make excuses. They don't duck from the loss. You never hear this player while Jalen Williams didn't after one game when he got injured, didn't talk to the media. But they all come out and they address the series. And here's what Sam Presti said about Shea, Gilgis, Alexander and the dialogue about whether he's a grifter or a flopper or whatever. He's playing against six people. Presti said he has five defenders. And the sixth defender is social media. It's a reality. He's not going to be the last player that the machine. The machine decides to target. Is that the villain from the last Mission Impossible movie? The Entity. The entity decides to target. But nobody is going to handle it as gracefully. Okay? I can't. I cannot. I'm sorry to deviate from the finals. And whatever you're going to say about Wemby, who is getting mauled and did elbow almost decapitate Naz Reed and somehow not get fined for it, which I thought was insane. I just can't let this quote pass.
- [33:19]
C
Yeah.
- [33:20]
A
Am I the only one who's like, what? What? Social media? How about the head coaches of, like, half the NBA teams? It's not just, yes, you'll get this Zapruder stuff on social media. Who fucking cares about that? Let's start lining up the head coaches who have called it out. It's not. It's not this. He's trying to make it sound like it's just these. Imagine these lunatics on social media. And nobody else. And it's just these fringe people. And Porsche has all these people attacking him on with these clips. It's people in the league. It's head coaches on the record talking about. Am I the only one who thought that was like a crazy quote?
- [33:55]
C
No, you're not. And I think you're exactly right. I don't know how many texts. If you search the word unwatchable in your imessage app, many of the returning feeds will be one of your friends or colleagues from this league talking about Shea Gilgis Alexander. Like, this is just the conversation that people are having. Like, he's the best guard in the world. Nobody's disputing that. But he flops like a soccer player. That's a fact. And nobody's attacking it unfairly. I think that is a fair point in the same way that I just took Jacoby's point. Yeah, Wemby should have been, you know, that's bullshit. He shouldn't do that to Brunson. Some of these dudes have these tendencies. And I think, yeah, I watched the whole press conference. I love when Sam Presti gives these end of the year press conferences. I recommend everybody go watch it because it's really thoughtful stuff about basketball and the NBA and how he approaches the season. But that was like a misstep. And I think it reveals Zach sort of a paranoia about the Thunder, how they feel like they're being disrespected internally. But I would be curious. Jacobe, this. This is for you. You're going to cook on this. What do you think of Sam Presty defending SGA here?
- [35:14]
B
I understand it. I think this. When you have a star player and an MVP and you're the general manager and you do these press conferences, you're going to want to kind of ride for your guy. And I do think that SGA does handle it with a lot of grace, to be honest. He does.
- [35:32]
A
Like, that's correct. He's right about that.
- [35:34]
C
That's a fact.
- [35:34]
B
He does, like, he does handle. He does. When he said that, I was like, yeah, you're kind of right. But. But one of the things that really struck me when he said that is like, we can delete these apps on our phones. Like, it is a choice. Like, you know, like, it's one thing to like, you know, to be mad at the refs or the defenders or the physicality, like the way we're talking about this series. But like, yeah, there's going to be noise on social media. You know, there's going to be noise on social media. And I think it's sort of your job as a professional athlete and even a professional NB to sort of disregard that.
- [36:07]
A
Yeah, I, I agree with you that SGA handles it gracefully. I actually don't think I'm probably on the low end of the continuum of, of anger about SGA's flopping. Like everybody, like Brunson flops. Like tons of people flop. He falls a lot. He takes a lot of very hard off balance jumpers and whatever. Like I don't like he's a little hard esque in terms of if you reach he's going to put his arms out. But like that's part of the game and that's always been part of the game. Like I, I've never been riled up. I thought it was a little, a little much to just say, well it's just social media and out of thin air creating this narrative and it's not actual NBA coach anyway. Kirk, your point was Victor is getting mauled. He is getting mauled. I get it. And I don't like I officiating over an X amount of series is going to, is going to hopefully even out and that's all you can ask for.
- [36:58]
C
Yeah, my thesis here guys is that the NBA does have an officiating issue. Like for me it's a geographic thing on the court. Like the contact allowances depending on where you are and who you are on the basketball court are wildly different. This isn't me being a Spurs homer, but again, if anybody yanked on guard like they yank on Wemby, it would be like flagrant fouls all game long. I think he gets frustrated. Jacoby. I do think you're right to an extent. He's a young guy who's going to make those kinds of hot headed mistakes, but I think he's expressing frustration. Even last night we saw a couple of fouls correctly called on towns for like grabbing his hand or hooking him in ways that you just don't see other players having to deal with nearly as often. I think that's just a reflection on his stature more than anything. But yeah, he gets frustrated. He's gonna, he's gonna act out. And then at halftime I thought that the point where Shaq was like, I don't know if you guys saw it halftime, Shaq was like, I'm proud of him for doing that. He should do that. Go for it, Wemby. Young man.
- [38:02]
A
Not the most, not, not the most notable inside the NBA comment at halftime apparently from, from what my Twitter Feed suggested you miss when you're at the game. And I, I got back to my hotel, like, wait.
- [38:14]
B
Charles said, what Legend. This is great. I want to pose something to you guys that was sort of like my biggest takeaway from game three, right? We all know what happened in game one to two, right? All of a sudden Carl into Towns is out playing Wimanyama and, and Wim Yama, you know, throws the ball off Steph Castle and then fouls. And he has to sit with that and think about it and watch the film and everything. And to start the game he gets what, three dunks in a layup in the first seven minutes. And they're running these great sort of stagger screens. It just really felt like the first drive of a big football game when they've got the plays scripted, you know what I mean? It felt like they were obviously going to use him offensively, actually setting screens and actually rolling. And in the Thunder series, I think it was game four, there was a while where they were just like, let's just throw the ball up towards the rim and let the nine foot guy be nice and tall. And like I felt as the game went on, they went away from that. Like, I felt like Wembanyama played well. But I do think if I'm a Spurs supporter or a Knicks fan, you're terrified of this. I think that you can do that for four quarters of a basketball game. But they really only did. I tracked all his 18 shots today too. It's a lob from Fox dunks on OG after he pins him another pin with an easy little drop in. And then he goes around OG and scores and gets an and one on downs and just sort of like the rest of his shots, he's taking a couple threes, he's taking some mid range shots. You know, he does get two more lobs in the game. But like if I'm the Spurs, like this does. And then Shaq sort of reminded me of this because you always hear Shaq, the big man, get in there and dunk on everybody, you know what I mean? But like, like that sort of like antiquated way of like looking at the game. But when you're Shaq, you can say stuff like that because you actually did that. Like I kind of feel like that way about Wemby. It's like you're nine feet tall. Just go near the basket catch passes. Like he had me one where he missed his own shot. He just tipped it back in with his other hand. Like, I don't know, I Just feel like there's a lot of room. I think as Wemby gets older and more sort of polished, you'll see a lot more stuff around the rim and less outside.
- [40:25]
C
Yeah, 100%, Zach. I actually have a nerdy stat that captures Jacoby's point, so.
- [40:30]
A
And then we'll take a break.
- [40:32]
C
First two games, obviously, spurs lose. Wemby's average shot distance was 16ft. It was the highest among all the players, like all the six or seven, eight volume scorers in the series. Game three, that number is 10. It's the lowest number amount. So it's. It's just. We're seeing it in the numbers, too. We're seeing in the eye test. But yeah, go to the rim. Shaq's right on this one.
- [40:53]
A
I want to talk more about that. Let's just take a quick break and we'll get back to the Wemby issue. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra, the official beer partner of the NBA. The NBA Finals are here, and every time the finals roll around, all the memories start to flow into my brain. LeBron's block on Andrew Godala. I was there. I had a perfect angle on it. I almost had a heart attack on press row. I ran to a monitor to try to see if he actually got in, and it wasn't a goaltender. I felt like I needed a Michelob Ultra. I wish I had drunk a beer with my dad when we were watching the flu game together on our couch and just marveling at what we were seeing Michael Jordan do. And of all the amazing plays and moments that happen, the best ones are served cold. Just like Michelob Ultra. A superior light beer. What's even better, since they're getting people closer to the game with a chance to win tickets, custom merch and more. Michelob Ultra Superior is worth paying for. Enter now at michelobultra.com courtside Michelob Ultra Courtside 25 to 26. No purchase necessary. Open to U.S. residents. 21/plus begins on October 1, 2025, and ends on June 30, 2026. Multiple entry periods. See official rules@michelob ultra.com courtside for free entry, entry deadlines, prizes and details. Okay, Wemby rolling to the rim. Dunks. Crazy putbacks, first of all. Again, 11 of 18 from the floor. 32, 8, 6 three blocks, including that epic one on Shamet with four and four minutes and change left. A plus response from Wemby after a gaffe to end game two that we will all remember forever. And we'll be in the highlight, blooper reel, whatever of all. Like, here are the pivotal turnovers in NBA Finals history. It's the rolling to the rim thing is interesting because you mentioned Jacoby, the staggered screens that the spurs are running, and told lots of different variations of them. Most of them have either Castle handling the ball, one of the three guards handling the ball, and one of the screeners is whoever Brunson is on to get him involved in the play. That's often Champagne. And the other is Wembanyama. And the reason that's interesting is because if Champagne is in the screening action, he's dangerous. He flares out for threes and all that, but that means he's not spacing the floor, which is his number one value as a spur. He's kind of spacing the floor as a moving shooter, but he's not like, on the wings dragging a defender out there. And it means that Brunson is in the play, which is good for the spurs, but also far from the rim. And kind of why that matters is because if you watch a lot of the roles where he doesn't get all the way to the rim or has a difficult time finishing, it's because the Knicks, who are huge on the wing, as you noted earlier, Jacoby with Bridges, Hart, and an obi are just pulling way in off everybody else. And so. And. And the spurs, for whatever reason, on a lot of these plays, have Harper or Castle, whichever one of them is not handling the ball, kind of in the dunker spot. So their. Their defender is close to the paint, and he goes there, and there's just a ton of traffic. And he had one play where he caught it, and Hart stepped up off the dunker spot guy, and Wemby stopped and kind of was like, I don't know what to do. And he kicked it, I think, to Harper, who drove and then found Wemby, who relocated for a three. So, fine, he gets a three out of it. But ideally, you would love to script the offense so that Brunson is the guy, the defender in the dunker spot, because Wemby doesn't see him. He'll just run right over him and dunk. But Champagne is not useful there. He's. They need him on the perimeter. So it's this sort of like, cat and mouse game of like, where are the defenders?
- [44:27]
B
Who's there?
- [44:27]
A
But it is part. Part and parcel of how the Knicks built this team is like, they're just huge on the wing, and they're. At least they're in early, they're pulling in hard, and they're making him think. They're making the ball handlers think. And like I said earlier, I think one of the counters that the spurs made last night was Castle just making the simple kick out pass instead of forcing something in the paint. And when that help comes, trust the next guy to make the play. But yeah, I mean, clearly the spurs came out with the directive of just throw the ball up and good things are going to happen for us. And I would expect them to, having seen the evidence, just go even more in that direction. Kirk. And in game, game four, yeah, they
- [45:05]
C
have Randy Moss maybe throw a couple of deep balls right.
- [45:08]
A
There you go.
- [45:08]
C
It's. You got mossed over and over again. If you get, if you get him away from the low man who's tagging him, or whatever the other opponents are doing, but they just got to figure it out. It's like the existential strateg strategy for the spurs for the next decade. One way I've captured this in my own notes is what I call the Wemby dunk differential, which is looking at his dunks versus his jump shots as sort of an expression of his, of his passive nature sometimes. In game one, he had four dunks and 12 jumpers. These are attempts, not makes four dunks and 12 jumpers and dunks and layups, I should say attempted. So he was 12 jumpers, four dunks and layups in game one. Game two, it's almost even. 11 dunks and laps against 10 jumpers. And in game three, guys, 11 dunks and laughs and just seven jump shots. So he's. He's a lot harder to guard when he's getting those touches. Deep in the pain, it's not always lobs, as Jacoby pointed out. It's pinning guys down. Like, he doesn't have to have the best footwork. He has so many physical gifts. He just needs to, to. To be stronger. And if I had one point to say, like, what are we learning about Wemby's future this series? It's like this dude needs to get stronger because there are players who are bigger than him that are pushing him around all playoffs long. And that's, I think, the reason why we don't see a Jacoby all four quarters long. It's like he. He's not strong enough to endure all of that beating that he's getting down low. But, but, you know, I think Sean Sweeney, Ms. Johnson, whoever it is, has to come up with a game plan that gets that sort of Dunk differential. To be in the right sort of order, he needs to have more shots in the paint than he does outside of the paint, Zach, going forward. Yeah. And then. So the last point I'd make is, and this is sort of a minutia thing, but going at Brunson like they did, he had four fouls, too. That was the thing we didn't say. And they got him in foul trouble. And I think that's why they have those three guards out there. No matter. They can't hide. There's no champagne out there for you to sit on wherever the ball comes to you. And whether it's going to be Fox, Castle, or Harper, there's no soft spot for, for, for our man Brunson to hide. And I think that got him in foul trouble, which is a huge point of that third quarter.
- [47:23]
A
And we had, we had some brief minutes with an obi at center and some brief minutes, like a hot second without both Brunson and Cat. Remember, way back, it feels like six months ago, I think it was game two of the haw when Mike Brown went a long stretch, two long stretches with Brunson and Kat on the bench together, and they got rolled. And it was like, well, it's worked well for us in the regular season. And I was like, kind of hasn't, and we've never seen it again. They've obviously avoided that since. But, yeah, the Brunson. The Brunson fouls were. Were an issue. But, like, I just watch. I know it's boring. Just watch the dunker spot, because I don't know why this. I mean, there's value in having a guard sitting down there as a release valve. Like, there were a couple times where Wemby got it and probably could have dropped it off to Harper, who's a powerful finisher. That dunk Harper had on a cut from Cornet was like, holy cow, off two feet. That guy's like jumping off a trampoline. But then it also creates a lot of traffic. And there was another play where instead of one of them in the dunker spot, they had Castle and Harper both on the strong side of the floor, both out by the sideline, kind of doing some fake screening action to distract the defense. And somebody got a dunk out of it. So that's just like a, a fun thing to watch. We probably should talk about. Speaking of Knicks lineups, we haven't mentioned Bridges at all.
- [48:37]
B
No doubt.
- [48:38]
A
I, I. The foul trouble he got in early, I think just took him out of the game. And we did not see one second of the Knicks best, sort of like all offense, all shooting lineup, which is the starting lineup. But shame it in place of heart that did not play a second in this game because their rotation got jumbled. That lineup is plus 41 in 23 minutes in the playoffs. Like, it's just like an explosion on the court. It turned game two in the second quarter. We didn't see any of it. And I have to go back and watch, like, how could they have involved Bridges more or whatever. But I think the fouls just took them out of the game. And it's interesting because every time there's like a little bit. Even when, like regular season now every. We haven't had a Knicks, like, down moment in a while, but it always seems. And when they were like in a little bit of a rut in January and then again in March, it always seems to center on Bridges and towns. Like, those are always the bellwethers for the team. And they go through these stretches where they're kind of not involved or whatever. And like, we haven't had that in a while. And we had it again. Jacoby. Like, they're the guys who. It always seems to come back to them.
- [49:44]
B
Well, a few thoughts on that. Part of it is Brunson just dribbling the air out of the ball for 18 seconds. And I think, you know, you know, we're all sort of older. Like, I remember the old school point guards. You know what, Bridges has zero points. You look up, he's like, get him the ball. You know, I gotta get him involved. And I feel like there's a little bit of onus on Brunson to be that point guard to, you know, spread the ball around, get off the ball more than he does. And one thing about. Listen, the Knicks were just on fire for the last month and a half, right? You know, but do you remember when Deuce McBride in game four in Philly had like seven threes in the first half? Or Landry Shammit was 11 for 13. And they say, like, role players play better at home. The role players for the Knicks did not play better last night, you know, and I think with no Bridges sham it one for seven from three. A couple of those are pretty good.
- [50:39]
A
But Deuce.
- [50:40]
C
Yeah.
- [50:41]
B
And yes. So I expected some of those to go down and Deuce sort of like doing nothing for eight minutes in this game was a little bit of a concern. Clarkson played well and so did Alvarado, But I expect that to be a change for game four. I just don't. I don't think they'll be as hot as they've been for the last month and a half, but I think a few knicks just kind of like really laid an egg last night.
- [51:03]
D
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- [52:36]
A
McDonald's, looks left, sees Pulisic, looks right, sees Jimenez, gives a nod to Ron Ronaldinho in the corner with a FIFA World cup meal. Ronaldinho sees son in the booth. Son finds Beckham going for extra Big Mac sauce. He's got Davies at the table just behind him. Davies going for his collectible cup. A steal by Henry who pulls his own collectible cup. Collect one of nine legendary cups with
- [52:57]
C
a FIFA World cup meal at participating
- [52:59]
A
McDonald's for a limited time while supplies last. All rights reserved.
- [53:01]
B
20:26 McDonald's at FIFA World Cup 20:26
- [53:05]
E
Ready to soundtrack your summer with Red Bull Summer All Day Play, you choose a playlist that fits your summer vibe the best. Are you a festival fanatic, a deep end dj, a road dog, or a trail mixer? Just add a song to your chosen playlist and put your summer on track. Red Bull Summer All Day Play. Red Bull gives you wings. Visit red bull.com brightsummer ahead to learn more. See you this summer.
- [53:31]
A
I will give to Kat's credit, I think his defense has been unrelenting the whole series. He's been outstanding defensively. I think he only had one turnover last night. Like he's just not forcing anything. And there was that one play where he got the ball in the post and like four guys were on him and he was just sort of like throwing his elbows around and I you thought like, here comes the bad cat. Like crazy hook past turnover like the old days. And it's not, it's not coming. And yeah, Bridges just didn't do very much last night. The one thing they could, the one thing I think the Knicks could do if they just need a simpler thing to do is they, they could hunt Fox like the spurs are hunting Brunson. Like Fox is clearly not 100% and probably not close to 100% and the Knicks have only put him in 15 ball screens as the guy defending the screener in the entire series. And you know, the, the spurs put Brunson in 21 last night. I think that's a little, a little place that the Knicks can pull. But honestly, like, as a neutral fan here, I'm kind of glad the spurs won the game last night. Cause now we have a chance at a, we, we get a special, a special game for and like look for a young team. That was a hell of a response. And can I tell you when I started to think, all right, maybe this have this in them. Can I tell you what I saw the day before the game? I walked from Grand Central. I got into Grand Central with my little roller bag on my way to my hotel and I realized, oh, I'm going to pass by the hotel where the spurs are staying at some point. So I said, I texted some people, we sat down in the lobby, we had a little meeting and in came two San Antonio players who shall not be named. This was like 8 o' clock at night or something like that. And between them they had, I'm going to conservatively estimate, 14 shopping bags that they were dragging up to their hotel room. And I was like, I love it. Like you're in New York the shopping scene is better than it is in San Antonio. I like that. You're just not in your. You're not in your hotel room, like sulking, being stressed out, like, whoa, oh,
- [55:35]
B
my God, I can't believe.
- [55:36]
A
Down 02 in the finals. Live your life. Take your mind off the game. Get some nice clothes. God knows how much money they spent. And then trailing behind them was Mason Plumlee with one shopping bag. And I was like, mason, like, come on, man, like you. What else you gotta do? Just go out and have a little. Have a little fun. The other thing that happened last night, and I didn't realize this until I got back and I was rewatching the game. So on. On Saturday, my daughter had a swim meet. And I volunteered at the swim meet. And my job was, I got an orange vest and my job was to be the male marshal at the swim meet. And my main job is there's like an eight foot wide hallway opening. When you come out, the swimmers come out of the locker room where I got to clear it of parents at all times. Because it's just, it's just for the swimmers. Kids are like running around. If there's parents in the way, they're going to bump into the parents. And so my job is basically to sternly tell parents, I know you want to watch your kid race, you got to get out of this. There was one guy I had to tell like six times in the course of the swim meet. And by time number four, I'm just straight up rude. I'm like, hey, man, I've asked you, like, like a bunch of times now, can you just get out of here? And I'm watching the game back last night. That fucking dude is in the second row right behind one of the celebrities and he's on TV the entire game. And I'm like, who is this guy?
- [57:01]
B
Is this.
- [57:02]
A
It's like a James Olen. Like, what rich, powerful guy did I fucking annoy by just kicking him out? And look, I'm ruthless. I had a friend who was trying to sneak in there and watch the meet. I was like, hey, I'm sorry. She's a very nice woman. Like, I got to get you out of here. You're making me look bad in front of all these people. So I see this guy to you, I'm like, oh, my God, what did I do? But yeah. Spurs shopping. A plus shopping game for the two unnamed spurs.
- [57:24]
B
First of all, respect the vest.
- [57:26]
A
You have a vest on? I have an orange vest on?
- [57:28]
B
Yeah, you have an orange vest.
- [57:30]
A
Respect the vest, it's a thankless job. The swim coach was like, thank you for doing this thankless job. And I was like, are you kidding? I love it. I get to be rude to these entitled adults. It's fucking awesome. Like, no, shockingly, the rules also apply to you, sir. I know that you're probably not used to that, but. But here I am with my vest on. But God only knows who the hell he is. He might run Goldman Sachs for all I know.
- [57:52]
B
There's some things about the. There was just like a. It was a really weird game last night for a million reasons. Like, the whole, like, getting in stuff and like, the announcements during the day and like, I just want people that aren't here that like, see the most extreme clips of the fans. That's not like the normal New York City experience. You're seeing the sort of like the. You're not seeing the bell curve of New York. You're seeing the very extreme ends of it. Because there was some, like, violence in some, like, cop interactions and stuff that got weird. But, like Alvarado ending up in former Mayor Bloomberg's lap.
- [58:26]
A
Didn't see that. I didn't see that. I didn't see that from my seat.
- [58:29]
B
Oh, yeah, he goes to. He goes to save a ball from going out of bounds and he's like, literally sitting up.
- [58:34]
A
Lap.
- [58:35]
C
I thought Bloomberg was hurt, dude. That was a pretty violent one.
- [58:41]
B
And then like DJ Khaled's on his phone the whole time. It was just like, I don't know, maybe the President fell asleep, maybe he didn't.
- [58:46]
C
I don't know.
- [58:47]
B
Who knows? You know, it's hard to tell, like, strange.
- [58:51]
A
It's hard to tell if he's asleep because he has like, sort of a downcast view of. Of like his is in general where his eyes are facing. It's hard. It's hard to tell. There were rumblings that I. I have no idea if this is true or not, but there were rumblings going around that he wanted to sit courtside. And everyone was like, that's a terrible idea. And the first thing I thought of was not anything nefarious. It was like Josh Hart diving for a loose ball kicks President in the face or something like that.
- [59:18]
B
You got to put it between Tracy Morgan and Fat Joe, because I would pay all of my money just to watch a live stream of those three mic up. Watching a playoff basketball game. It would be.
- [59:31]
A
It would be good. A lot of celebs in the crowd. Last they had. I he ever. Everyone thought he was going to leave in the middle of the first quarter. He stayed, I think, for almost the entire game in his little glass enclosure. Very bizarre. The whole vibe was bizarre in ways that it's just hard to explain it. I mean, getting in was not that bad, honestly. Like, I was.
- [59:52]
B
It.
- [59:52]
A
It was obviously much worse. But the arena was full 45 minutes before tip, which is like what they were worried about is if, oh my God, if he's late or the crowd can't get in, are we going to start this game at the 8:42 tip time if there's like 15 capacity? And that didn't happen at all. They were, they were in the building. But it was, it was, it was just strange. And yeah, I mean, prepare now we got 36 hours of like, did Trump curse the Knicks discourse that's going to dominate the airwaves. In lieu of actual basketball analysis, I
- [60:23]
B
do want to say that, like, this whole thing with him and sort of what he brings to the table could have gone a lot worse. You know what I mean? Like, I like you remember, like when Taylor Swift would go to Chiefs games and they would like, show her too much and like make it too much. Not Taylor Swift. It really wasn't really impacting the game. You know what I mean? They showed them during the anthem. If you have the president in the building, you're doing the national anthem, the 250 year anniversary of the country. Show the guy and we can talk about whether he got booed or cheered. Who cares? But it really didn't impact my viewing experience as a basketball fan as much as I was terrified it was going to. We can talk about basketball on this podcast. I thought he'd say something after the game that would inflame everyone, but it was all kind of whatever.
- [61:09]
A
He did say that Stephen A. Smith doesn't have the aptitude to run for president.
- [61:13]
B
I didn't want to mention that. I did not want to mention that. Zach.
- [61:18]
A
The finals are always weird. The finals are always weird because it's such a show. Like, I always tell people my favorite round of the playoffs to cover in person is the conference finals because the stakes are super high, but it still feels like almost a normal NBA game. Like there's more people, there's more media, but it's not, not insane. The step up from the conference finals to the finals is like it goes from a basketball game to a complete circus where you cannot get any real work done. That's fine, but it's such a circus that you get there three hours before tip. There's so much going on. There's so much extracurricular stuff that the game starts and you're almost like, oh, yeah, I forgot that we're all here for the basketball game. And you wonder, the players must feel that sort of same, like, I gotta remember this is just a basketball game. I know we gotta wait three hours. The tip's late. There's all this pomp and circumstance. I just gotta focus on being approaching this like a normal basketball game. That felt like tripled last night. And just in terms of, like, we got. We were in the arena so early. Cause we all got there so early, we didn't even know what to do with ourselves for three hours, three, four hours. It's like, oh, that's right, there's a game. We're all here to watch a game. It was a very strange atmosphere, but we have a real. A real finals. The road team has not yet lost the game in the series. And. And look, if it goes back 2, 2. Holy shit. Even if it goes back 3 1, the spurs have done enough to put themselves in position to win one home game and force the Knicks to play here for the title. With all the pressure in the world on them to try to close out the series. And when you fall behind 2, 0 at home, that's really all you can ask for. Now they want to get two two, that's fine. They can definitely do it. The total point differential in the series is Knicks +7. So it's a very close series, but just getting yourself in position. Win game five and force them to do it under pressure in game six. I mean, Jacoby, you, you, if that. You'd have to come to that game. You'd have to find a way to be at that game.
- [63:14]
B
I can't afford it. I cannot afford it.
- [63:15]
A
Get a press ballast, man. Come to the game. I'll give you my press bounce.
- [63:19]
B
I don't want to. I don't want to.
- [63:20]
A
I don't want.
- [63:20]
C
Oh, that's illegal.
- [63:21]
B
I don't want my head against the ceiling. And also, like, you can't cheer and you can't have a beer. Like, what's the point of going to the game if you're just like, have a laptop out and take notes? That's what I do here in my office when I'm watching the game last night.
- [63:34]
A
I did see a media member last year, game one of the conference finals, drinking a beer on press row. And I remember Chris Mannix and Chris Mannix and I looked at each other like, how, what is this? This Is, have you ever seen this before? That's what's happening here.
- [63:48]
B
Maybe it was. I'm gonna say that's probably a non alcoholic beer. It must have been.
- [63:51]
A
It was not. We, we checked what beer was and it was, oh wow, the finals brings out a lot of weirdness. It just does. I don't know. Kirk, any concluding thought? What did we miss here? I mean, I have a whole list of notes that I can table for a day of trying to find a comp for the Knicks in the entire history of professional basketball in terms of like pretty good team. Like, you know, they won 53 games. Not a great like 6th in net rating or something that becomes a supernova team in the playoffs to win the title. And let me tell you, you. It's hard to find a good comp for them in that sense. But I found a couple. But we can table that for a day because the spurs are back in the series. Anything, what did we miss, Kirk?
- [64:33]
C
I got three like orphan stats that I'll give you that I think are pretty interesting.
- [64:37]
A
Perfect.
- [64:38]
C
Brunson is -5 net rating in this series. As you pointed out. Towns is plus 12.5. I think that's really weird. I looked up while Jacoby was talking about all the dribbling there out of the ball. Jalen Brunson has dribbled the ball 1590 times in these three games. Stefan Castle ranks second at 813.
- [65:02]
A
I wonder, I wonder where last night would rank in like dribbles per game for Brunson for the whole season. I tried to look that up and
- [65:10]
C
I couldn't figure out how I looked it up. I have it here. It's not as highest. There have been many, many more than. He's averaging about five or six dribbles per touch and he's getting 100 touches. So he's, he's up there, but he, he is the dominant dribbler in this series. And again, that goes back to this. That, that's sort of a quirky stat. This usage surge though, Zach, like it is bordering on hero ball. And if the spurs win game four, I think that discourse is going to get a little louder. I mean, obviously the Knicks need Brunson to be the, the, the straw that serves the drink, but it might be doing a little too much strawing and not enough stirring. And then, you know, lastly, I think what Ms. Johnson did in the fourth quarter, using challenges and timeouts to keep Wemby in the game for the entire duration of the fourth quarter, which to my understanding was the first time that happened all playoffs. I think even in that OKC overtime game, Cornett played in the. In the fourth quarter. The spurs are really hard to beat in those Wemby minutes. And if they can make this science of getting Cornet in at the exact right times against the right lineups, and they know they don't turn it over, that's the last. The last stat. That was the by far the best spurs turnover game of the series. Seven turnovers, eight turnover, something like that. But the spurs have a roadmap now, and as a biased spurs observer, I think they got to keep doing what they're doing. And to your point, excellently framed, man. If they win game 4, all bets are off.
- [66:47]
A
Wemby plus 10 for the series, minus 17 when he's off the floor. So Cornet, you know, do the math. They don't really have a good alternative to Cornet. I mean, it's just they would have to be so small that I'm not sure they want to go that route. But yeah, the timeouts were interesting because there was the one timeout he took right after a challenge when the Knicks did the thing where they sort of moved the chess pieces around to the point that Wemby toggled onto Towns, and then they cleared that side of the floor and ran a Brunson Towns pick and roll. This is exactly what they want. And then Wemby blitzed Brunson, turned the corner and got a layup and Ms. Johnson called a timeout. And I was like, is he mad or is this just. Is this just like a rest Wemby timeout? Maybe. Maybe it was both. I guess the.
- [67:41]
B
I got a weird stat for you, Goldsberry. Spurs had five fast break points.
- [67:47]
C
Yeah.
- [67:48]
B
In the game. I mean, a lot of it was because the second half was so choppy. Right. But, like, I was pretty shocked. Yeah.
- [67:58]
C
And to. Yeah, to paraphrase Kenny Atkinson, as we wrap up up analytically, this series is tied.
- [68:04]
A
Oh, stop. No, we're not going back there. We're not going back analytically.
- [68:07]
C
This deal is tied, guys.
- [68:09]
A
It can't be tied. There's only been three games.
- [68:12]
C
You just don't know the analytics, Zach. You don't know the analytics.
- [68:17]
A
I'm playing checkers. You're playing 4D chess. I misread you. Yeah. The transition defense has been outrageous on both sides. I mean, Anunobi, I feel like, has two outrageous transition defensive plays every game. Bridges had one where he sprinted black back and deflected a pass. Again, these games do not let Up. The intensity is off the charts. I cannot wait for Game four at the world's most famous arena. I expect an even better performance out of the MSG crowd. Those who can afford to attend the game, which is a whole different story. David Jacoby mismatch recorded last night. Right. That's going to be my listening when I go get my fat ass to the hotel gym today. That and Bill Spot. I got a lot. I got a lot to listen to. When else are you recording? I can't keep track of everyone's schedules anymore.
- [68:58]
B
We do Thursday nights, so I'll have a nice Wednesday watching the game and not having to stay up until one in the morning afterwards. And food news every Friday.
- [69:09]
A
Look at that. Kg. What do we got from you this week? You did a big final review. You picked spurs and seven, I think was your pick.
- [69:17]
C
It is. And I'm committed to write a game 5 look ahead piece which now is going to happen. There was a time I was like, maybe I won't have to do that, you know, but I have to do it. So look for that, I would guess Friday.
- [69:29]
A
Yeah, there's a big party that I was going to go to the night of game five. If there were a sweep, I'm out of. My RSVP is officially. No. I'm ready and willing to have a long series here. All right, David Jacoby, Kurt Goldsberry, thanks for waking up early after a long, long night. We will see you back here on this show after, I don't know, whatever. Thursday morning, I think after game, after game four, whatever is happening. I don't know. Thank you, guys. Talk to you soon. All right, that's it for today's edition of the Zach Low. Thanks to the great David Jacoby and Kurt Goldsberry for their time and analysis and humor. Thank you to Mike, Billy and Jonathan as always on production. Thank you to you all for listening to and or watching the Zach Lowe Show. I'll be back around this time Thursday morning after attending Game 4 at Madison Square Garden. It'll either be 2, 2 and Holy Smokes or 31 and Knicks on the verge. Either way, we'll break it all down. Maybe talk some NBA draft trades. Who knows? Thank you all for listening or watching The Zach Lowe Show. 21 are over and president. Select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MY RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincut or is it mdgamblinghelp.org and Maryland Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.
- [71:11]
E
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