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- [00:01]
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- [00:57]
Zach Lowe
tremphyaradio.com this episode is brought to you by State Farm. The best passers see every angle of the floor to make the perfect assist and State Farm is no different. They know the game inside and out and look at every angle to help set you up with a plan that fits your life and budget. Get the coverage that's right for you. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability and eligibility vary by state. Foreign up on the Zach Close Show LeBron James we are still waiting and that's fine. Take all the time you want. We got nothing going on. Draymond Green and James Harden are also still waiting. Peyton Watson is still waiting for a deal. Jalen Duran is still waiting for a deal. Lots of stuff is in is in flux as we all wait on LeBron and he's going to take his time and that's fine. In the meantime, we have a busy summer and fall coming up, notably around contract extensions and Grant Liftman from NBC Sports. He used to work for the Atlanta Hawks front office. He's worked doing TV for NBC out in Golden State, but Now he's national. NBC's on the national TV games and all that. We do a little a fun little draft of extension eligible players. The most interesting extension cases in the NBA combining guys who are in there coming off their rookie deals soon, the Wembanyama draft class. Obviously he signed for the max, but less than the supermax and the veteran extensions. Some are obvious. We've all talked about Tyler Herro and Michael Porter Jr. And Karl Anthony Townes and we hit Those guys. But there's always some fun under the radar ones like, oh, that guy was extension eligible, or they could get him for that amount. We go through that whole list, talk about what's a fair deal, a fair compromise, what negotiations might look like. We hit almost every team at some point comes up. So it's a fun episode. Grant's awesome. I think you guys will enjoy it. That's coming up now. Foreign.
- [02:59]
Grant Liftman
Show.
- [02:59]
Zach Lowe
It's late July. It's day 24 of LeBron Watch. We're now drinking lake water instead of regular water. We're monitoring YouTube channels for videos that were posted by mistake. Whoops. Grant Liftman from NBC is here. My old buddy. How you doing?
- [03:18]
Grant Liftman
I'm good, I'm good. I'm just trying to survive LeBron watch. Just like you. I'm reading the tea leaves. I've spoken to multiple people. I'm also going to, you know, just palm readers and all that, trying to figure it out. But we'll get there sometime.
- [03:34]
Zach Lowe
As I have said, the, the speculation, the tea leave reading is just wildly out of control. You talk to people with teams. You talk to people with teams. In your job as a front office insider for NBC, nobody knows anything. I. Unless they're all lying and they do know something. Nobody knows anything. They're all laughing at how in the dark they are and they're all like, I will find out when you find out. That's what I keep hearing anyway.
- [03:58]
Grant Liftman
Yeah, no, that's exactly it. I just, I put out a tweet like a couple of weeks ago and I said, hey, by the way, just in case, you know, like if a source is saying this is a done deal or this was happening or he's leaning towards this way, I don't want to say they're lying. But I'll just put it this way, no one knows. And I think LeBron may be literally the only person that knows. That includes Rich Paul.
- [04:21]
Zach Lowe
Is there a chance he doesn't know? There's always a chance he doesn't know yet. I mean, there's all this burbling about, is he waiting for one of these teams to make a big move? Like, I don't believe that really. Even I'm not sure that's at play here. I don't really know what's happening other than I can tell you. They do seem to be enjoying the monopolization of NBA airwaves and the fact that we're all hanging on tenter hooks about a 41 year old player's decision that probably Will not, but maybe, might, maybe some chance. It swings the championship balance a little bit. But we shall see. I don't have anything. I'm out of things to say. I just. I don't even have jokes anymore. Grant. I'm out.
- [04:57]
Grant Liftman
All right. My one thing I will say is this. So I think LeBron James is one of the more calculated NBA players, if not athletes of all time. The way he tells the story and the narrative of his career. And I was convinced and still am pretty convinced, that when he said, I'm stepping away from Lakers, he pretty much knew where he was going. However, there's only one team in my mind that will clearly show that he did not actually know and he switched it up, and that is the 76ers. Because when he pulled out of the Lakers, they didn't have Jaylen Brown yet. That deal did not happen. And I would be shocked if he was just going to go to the Sixers with Embiid and Maxi and Paul George. So I think if he actually does go to the Sixers, that means he might have pivoted because that would have been such a random team for him to go to before they got Jaylen Brown, in my opinion.
- [05:47]
Zach Lowe
Who knows? We'll find out soon. Presumably. I don't even know I was going to say presumably by August 1st. I don't know. Who knows? I'm going on vacation in eight days. I'm taking my microphone. Who knows what's going to happen? But we will find out at some point before the season. And again, presumably Bill has floated the idea that he should wait till Christmas or something. I don't see that happening. He likes being on a team. LeBron legitimately likes being on a team. I don't think he wants to shortchange that. In the meantime, we have to make up things to talk about. So here's what we're going to do today. Normally you would do an episode on rookie deal extensions, like Victor Wembanyama's draft class. He already took the max, although not the. Without the 30% language. And people have hemmed and hawed about that. Justifiably so. And then like another episode on veteran extensions, which are. There are always sneaky veteran extensions out there. We saw one today. Grant the Celtics extended Jordan Walsh three years, 15 million. Nice deal. I mean, those are the kind of. That's how they got Peyton Pritchard is just like these sort of sneaky extensions that come out of nowhere. It's like, yeah, why not? Like, what's $5 million if that deal goes bust. It's not that big of a deal. Smart deal by the Celtics. I like Jordan Walsh, like, no harm, no foul. And so I thought we'd have a little fun. Our 10. We each made a list, our 10 most interesting extension candidates. Among all the extension candidates. You can take the Thompson twins, and you can take Tyler Herro And Michael Porter Jr. Put them all in a bucket. We made a list of our 10 most interesting extension candidates. We will have a draft, and you will go first, and we'll see how much we overlap. Are you ready to make your first pick in the extension draft?
- [07:21]
Grant Liftman
This is a big deal. This is my first extension draft I've been part of. So, yeah, who I pick first may dictate really my future career in this. So you're ready.
- [07:32]
Zach Lowe
You're really baiting me with that, Grant. You're really baiting me with that because you did work for the Atlanta Hawks. I've just had to. I had to say you're baiting me. But I'm going to. I'm not taking the bait. You make your first pick.
- [07:43]
Grant Liftman
All right. All right. So let's see if you overlap on any here. So I'm going to go with my first pick is actually a rookie extension, and that's Keonte George. And to me, Keonte George is such an interesting situation in that he was part of a team that had been trying to lose and trying to develop players, and they're one of those few teams that kind of just switched it. All of a sudden we're like. And we're going for it. And in the midst of that, Keonte George was having his career breakout year. He was averaging 24 points per game. His percentages all went up. 46 from the field, 37 from. From three. And you just saw this. This revolution of his game for someone that was teetering a little bit about if he ever is going to be this efficient guy or is he just going to be the sixth man, just kind of like, puts up some stats and volume. But Keonta George is in a position now where he wants to get paid. He put up huge numbers to get paid. But the Jazz are in a completely different situation than they ever were before. Right now, they have committed about $100 million to Triple J and Lowry Marketen. Right. They were also ticketed to get probably about $30 million on the books or Walker Kessler. So him not being there does change the situation again for the Utah Jazz. But the biggest part about all of this is Darren Peterson now is entered into the mix. And Darren Peterson, we saw, is trying to be on ball. He's trying to have the ball in his hands, and Keonte George is best with the ball in his hands. He comes off pick and roll, he hits a high ball screen from Nerc, and then he comes off that he's a scorer. He is more of a scorer than he is a facilitator. And Darren Peterson is more of a scorer than a facilitator that we've seen thus far. So how much do you actually pay Keonta George? Do you want to keep him as trade bait throughout the season? And if so, you probably don't want to sign the deal because then it becomes poison pill and all the different things you have to think about. But for Keonta George, now we have to really talk about a guy who's 23 years old and what is his ceiling? Is he a winner or is he a guy that puts up stats? And these are the things that the Jazz will have to figure out as they move forward. They also have Ace Bailey on the team. So that's another guy that eventually they're, you know, there's only. What did they say? There's only one ball, right? There's only one ball to go around between all these mouths to feed. And finally, Zach, you mentioned that I was with the Atlanta Hawks before, and this is the way I look at extensions here. Is that. So I want to give a little shout out to who I think is one of the best young cap strategy minds in the game, Ryan Silverstein there with the Hawks, he created a model. And I'm not going to go into the exact specifics or the nuances of it because I don't want to give away his strategy. But the idea is when you're building out a team, championship teams, you have to look at the percentages of the cap that you're building out with these extensions and signings. And normally a championship team, and this is a very broad macro way of looking at it, has two max players and then about three guys that are making the MLE or above. So let's say about 9% of the cap to like 15 to 18% of the cap. Right now you have two guys that are making, quote, unquote, close to max with JJJ and Lowry, right? If you're giving Keonte George, what, 30 more, whatever, now you're starting to load up on positions of like, those cap numbers are starting to skyrocket, and then you have to figure out Peterson them. So a long way of saying you have to figure out the best way of team building more than just accumulating talent in the new apron system. And Keonte George is my most interesting one for that.
- [11:11]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, he was in my honorable mentions. He didn't make my top 10. Partly because I'm pretty pessimistic that there is going to be a deal before the season. There was a report, I can't remember where it was like a month ago, that negotiations had totally broken down and there was not going to be an extension. I don't think that's true. I think negotiations are going to start if they haven't already started, and that's fine. I just like the Jazz are they played hardball with Walker Kessler and I think they will play hardball with Keonte George and just say, hey, look, if you want the security of an extension, you have to do it on our terms. We're not going to give you the max. We can give you the max next summer if you play up to the max. You mentioned $30 million. If that's their offer, I don't think a deal is getting done. I don't think Kathy George is taking $30 million. I could be wrong. That's like getting into the ballpark of where a player might say, you know what, that's just so much money per season that even if it's lower than we've discussed internally with the agent and stuff, I might take it. I think he's a very good player. I think he is a winning player offensively, defensively. He made a huge leap last year from like, oh, my God, bad to just like normal, below average. I think there should be another leap coming. I think he and Peterson can coexist fine as combo guards. There's a real creativity to Keante's game that I think he can tap even more into with another perimeter scorer. But you did zero in on, like, the Jazz have a lot of very good players. They don't have a lot of very good passers yet. And I think that's one of the deficits of their team. Like, Isaiah Collier is probably their best passer. If you really stretch the argument, you could argue like, Kyle Filipowski might be their second best passer, but I think Keonto George is a really good player, has a lot of room to grow. Maybe there's an extension, maybe they're not, but that, that is a good. The model you posited is interesting because if they give him a lot, like 35, 40, whatever, it ends, if it goes into that higher range they're looking at a possible tax bill next season. 27, 28. But I still think they view him as a long term part of the franchise. But he is. There is a world where like Peterson just explodes out of the gate and you start talking about like, who's expendable, who's tradable. That's a good, that's a good pick. Yeah, it's much, much, much more deep cut than my first pick is going to be. So I admire you. You came in, you came in strong.
- [13:26]
Grant Liftman
Yeah, I really wanted to get the brain going early. And one follow up I would say to that too is that if you're Keonte George's side, there are a lot more mouths to feed this upcoming season. So do you want to get an extension done this summer before there's a chance you go into next year and your, your points per game drops and all that because your usage is going to drop considerably, potentially with Peterson and all these mouths to feed. So that is something that have to look into as well. You're coming off a big year. Do you want the security or do you want to go into it and just say, hey, I want to make as much bank as possible the following year?
- [13:58]
Zach Lowe
I will say I'll just. I said, I don't, I don't expect a deal. People, particularly aggregators, go crazy with stuff like that. I'll say, like to be clear, I'll go like 35% extension, 65%. No extension. All right, my turn. My first pick. I assume this guy's going to be in your top 10. Anthony Davis of the Washington Wizards, who makes $58.5 million this year and has a very juicy $63 million player option for 20, 27, 2028 for a whiz team that could be looking at paying the tax next season, depending on a whole bunch of variables, including, is Anthony Davis on the team? Does he just opt in to $63 million and roll the dice as an unrestricted free agent after that? In his mid-30s? Is there a deal to be had extension wise, where he opts out of $63 million and signs something like a three year, $150 million deal where he takes a pay cut in terms of annual salary but locks in some money given his availability issues? Is any of this tied to the LeBron sweepstakes that's going on right now? I don't particularly think so. I don't think the warriors have shown much interest, if any, in Anthony Davis. I don't think the Wizards have shown much Interest in any in trading for Anthony Davis. And there's a world where Trae Young plus Anthony Davis plus AJ Debancer plus a whole pile of interesting young players suddenly net you. If not this year, then maybe next year when all those young players have a year of growth and a year of fitting with the vets. Like, is that a potentially 47, 48 win team? Like, I don't think that's like completely outrageous. In two years. Not this year. In two years. I don't know what's going to happen here. This is one of the biggest mysteries in the league to me. I don't know what I think. The only thing I'm sure of is a max extension for Anthony Davis is batshit insane. And no team should even be within any reasonable reach of it because he just doesn't play enough. But he's still very good when he plays. So he's on my list for all those reasons.
- [15:58]
Grant Liftman
I love that I, you know, I guess I went for guys that, you know, were a little bit more, you know, below the surface. Interesting. But I agree with you. Anthony Davis should be number one on this list just out of all extensions because it affects so many different teams in the league. And the one thing I can say is this. Very rarely has a clutch client just been like, you know what, I'll take a little less or hey, I'll do a three year deal, etc. It seems like so many different times this person gets traded before they take that deal, right? Before they go somewhere else and then they sign that deal elsewhere. A couple years ago, when I was with the Hawks and we had Trae Young, we labeled Anthony Davis as one of the guys that fits perfectly with Trey's game. And now this is a younger, more spry, maybe Anthony Davis, we don't know what he hate. We haven't seen him play very much, so we don't really know where he's at right now. His game fits just perfectly with triumph. It really is to a tee now what that means for this Washington team. It just, it really comes down to motivation, right? Is he doing this? What is Anthony Davis motivation? And I feel like that's been a question mark. Whichever team he goes to, who's his teammates, what are they trying for? Are they trying for money? Is he trying for a championship here? Which is weird to say out loud, but like at the same time, we've kind of seen the ebb and flows of his career kind of based on a lot of that. Like, what is the drive going towards? Would I Give him the full max at this. No, I mean, that's just. That's just hard to do. Again, we're talking about a guy. What are you trying for? Are you trying for a championship? If you're trying for a championship, giving the full max and giving all your dollars to Trae Young, Anthony Davis, at this point in their careers, then I don't think you're as serious about trying for a championship if you're trying to be relevant again. Yeah, I mean, I can see why you're going to pay him a lot of money to be there. And Zach, the one thing I will say is this, is that sometimes teams go out of their way to tank for so long that there's a stigma about them, that no one wants to go there, or they have to be paid the max money to go there. And sometimes you need to change that stigma about your team to be a relatively up and coming team or a fun team or something. And then when a player gets traded there or goes there, they're like, hey, maybe I'll take a little less, or like, I'll play for you guys, et cetera. Washington just has this vibe about them that like, Anthony Davis went there and was immediately like, I'm not playing here. And it's like Washington itself, the city, the history, it's awesome. I actually loved going to D.C. for their games. It's just. The point is the fan base is ready for something. You kind of have to build that in between. Team that's on the rise. And Devonsa obviously helps that they have a lot of good young players. Another guy that I almost added to this list was Bilal Koulibaly because I always been intrigued by his, his career, but it's kind of tanked over the last couple of years. But the point is, I agree with you completely. And the last thing I'll say is this. The Golden State warriors have shown no interest in just acquiring Anthony Davis. They could have done it last year if they wanted to. They didn't. They could do it right now, maybe, but they're not engaging the Wizards. If LeBron says to them, hey, go get Anthony Davis, I think this is a different story. But because that has not been said, because that hasn't been said, it's like they're not interested. So I really, at this point just feels like AD is just in line to get an extension with Washington.
- [19:17]
Zach Lowe
Yeah. You know, when they gave Troy Young the huge extension, which surprised me as it did many, I still don't really know who they were bidding against. In just giving him all the money and a player option. But, you know, look, I think Trae Young's become actually underrated. I. My. One of my initial responses was it doesn't seem like Anthony Davis is going to be too long for this team, like at least beyond this season. Because I just don't think whatever the dollar amount Anthony Davis accepts, I just don't think the wizard should be in the business of paying these guys $100 million combined for like three years. I just think that's a little ahead of their skis. Maybe I'm wrong and maybe that turns out to be wrong. The wild card is Alex Sar and how ad fits with Alex Sar, who has played mostly center in his career and would figure to benefit a lot from Cherry Young as a role man. Harder role for him to play with Anthony Davis also presumably starting alongside him. So maybe I want to see a little bit more of that and how that works before I extend Anthony Davis. All right, who's your next. Who's your next pick?
- [20:20]
Grant Liftman
You know, I'm going to go Zion Williamson on this one. And Zion for me is just his. His. His contract is one of the more unique contracts in NBA history. It's just every year is non guarant, partial, guaranteed, and some of it is by games played, and some of it is literally his weight is put into his contract, which is just crazy that that actually got put in there. But Zion, for as much as he's been in the spotlight or out of the spotlight back and forth for so long, he's only 26 years old, and technically speaking, usually players enter their prime around 26 years old. So where Zion goes from here, he played 62 games last year, so it was one of his healthier years. A couple of years before that, he actually played 70. He looks like he's in better shape, et cetera. The question for me about Zion Williamson is like, what is his ceiling at this point? Have we seen his ceiling? Or what does his prime look like? Because at the end of the day, he is somebody that really thrives off his power and his athleticism. And so technically speaking, let's say he sees healthy. He should be getting better in those worlds just for a little bit, or at least maintaining there. But what does he do for you that elevates you? Obviously he's a scoring machine, but defensively he struggles. The spacing is a nightmare. What position is he necessary playing? I know it's positionless basketball, but at some point you have to have some type of vibe of where exactly we're putting you so we can put people around you as well to defend others. He's an interesting case and in my. I truly expect at this point, I do expect this front office to extend him because I think they like him. I think they like him a lot. I think he's committed to putting his body in a better shape. But at the end of the day, I just don't know. He has a non guaranteed or, you know, whatever his contract really stipulates in 2027 for $45 million. Could they let it play out? Absolutely. They could kind of say, hey, you still need to earn this. Or they just extend him right off the bat. But only 26 years old, Zach. It just blows my mind how long he's been around.
- [22:18]
Zach Lowe
He was on my list too, I believe. I checked with some cap experts. I believe that if they extend him, they have to first guarantee that year, the next year, 27, 28, and then extend off of that. I have heard the same thing that you've heard, that this front office really likes Zion Williamson to the point that I kind of have my radar up for a possible out of nowhere Zion extension coming off a 60 whatever game season. The fit thing is interesting because his role dramatically changed last season. He had the ball less. His pick and roll volume was way down, both as a screener and as a ball handler. And that's because they were funneling the offense a lot through Derrick Queen, who they paid a hefty price to get and who doesn't fit with Zion defensively either. That 4 or 5 combination is suicide defensively. And so his role just sort of was in this murky middle ground and he still put up 21 a game on efficient shooting because he's just that explosive around the rim, that good at drawing fouls because of his power. But his role was a little less central than I think he was accustomed to. The Pelicans were accustomed to. But I've heard the same thing. And the wild card here is Grant. The phone lines have to work in the New Orleans offices for them to do any kind of extension and there's just no. The only number they appear to have is they have just like they, they hit one on their speed dial, their landline speed dial, and it goes to DeAndre Jordan and they sign him and there's like nothing else going on. Okay, time for my pick. I mean, I have a list here and the next person on my list is a good name. I'm thinking of deviating from it because there's more interesting Guys, no, I'll just. I guess, I guess I got to follow my list sneakily. Extension eligible again is Rudy Gobert, who makes 36 and a half million this year. Like AD has a player option for 2728 at $38 million a year, which is only 22% of the cap. Has a history of being like a pretty. He and his agents pretty fair with Minnesota and not holding out for every last dollar they can get. You know, technically you can go 140% of your prior salary up to not exceeding the max. And I just think this is like a sneaky interesting thing because he's kind of a semi expiring contract. He is still a very good player. He's enters his mid-30s, but you never know when the cliff is going to hit. And this is a team that is built to win, that threw in everything, that mortgaged everything to try to win something. Now with LaMelo Ball and Anthony Edwards, even Jada McDaniels makes a ton of money. I OD Sunu makes a ton of money and they don't have anything. I mean, unless Baron J is just so far ahead of what we've seen in terms of his readiness to really be a starting center, they don't have anybody who's ready to do for them what Gobert does. And at the same time, like they have, I don't know, $150 million almost just to those, to LaMelo and IO and Jaden. And so they have to be careful about the tax. I don't know that there's been any talks. It's early. I think everyone has now gone away for the summer. But I just, I'm keeping an eye on it. That's all. I'm keeping an eye on it.
- [25:31]
Grant Liftman
Yeah, I had him on my list too. There you go. Yeah, I look at him and he's played 70 games or more in all four seasons with the Minnesota. So you look at him and in today's day and age, you look at his age. But hey, like a guy who actually gets out there and, and is consistent every single year, you know what you're going to get from Rudy Gobert. And to be honest, I thought there were some moments in the playoffs where it was like the first time we're like, hey, here's Rudy Gobert truly impacting winning in the postseason. Then he got exposed a few times and this is just the Rudy Gobert experience. But for me, I look at it and he has a player option, right? So in his mind, he's 34 years old. He's been really good for so many years. I'm looking at this being like, I'm not just picking up a player option. I'm not just extending one year. I'm trying to get my last big contract here. And Minnesota, to your point, just, they don't, they don't have the ability to just give him one big contract. They can't just say, here's another 30 a year for another three or four years. The one thing we do know, though is Tim Connolly and his group are willing to take risks with the idea that they can make trades. They're one of the few teams that is willing to just make trades. Especially in this new apron system. You don't have teams that just wheel and deal. And Tim Conley is one of those guys. So that's the one catch where I might be like, yeah, maybe they say, Rudy Gobert, here's money because we can trade you eventually. But no, he was on my list as well on that one.
- [26:54]
Zach Lowe
I'm, I could, like, I could see the, the reason I'm doing this exercise and I like doing the veteran guys almost more than the rookie deal guys. I have a couple of those on my list is there are always a few guys who, I mean, much higher profile than Jordan Walsh today, but similarly, like, oh, that guy was eligible for an extension. Like what? That. I didn't see that coming. And if you told me that in September or August or whenever there was like, Rudy Gobert signs a three year, $95 million extension with the Timberwolves, I wouldn't be like terribly surprised by that. But that's, that's just me. All right, let's take a quick break and then we'll get to your next pick because we near the halfway point of our, our draft here. This episode is brought to you by Google Chrome. You think you know a browser, but Gemini and Chrome, that's new. It can help you with practically anything on the web, like restoring a vintage motorcycle from a 50 page restoration block. Or finally break down that long article you've had open for weeks. Gemini and Chrome is here for it, ready to make anything online make sense. There's no place like Chrome. Check responses, setup required, compatibility and availability various 18. That refresh you've been putting off until the right deal came along.
- [28:01]
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Zach Lowe
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- [28:08]
Grant Liftman
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Zach Lowe
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- [28:31]
Grant Liftman
Yeah. It feels so weird throwing another Pelicans player out there because for zero talk of them this entire off season, you know, maybe it's just a little under the radar, but I want to throw Dejounte Murray, my old guy from the Hawks, Dejounte Murray, because he's kind of gone under the radar because of injuries. Injuries have limited and he's only played 45 games the last two years. But the interesting thing about Dejounte Murray, he's gonna be 30 years old this season coming up. He has a couple injuries, major injuries in his career, but he is a model of consistency. When he's out there, you know kind of what you're gonna get from him. He's not the same defender he was when he was with the spurs before the injuries, that's for sure. But when it comes to his ability just to maintain and be a guy that can consistently be out there, who's going to hit some mid range shots, who's going to spray the ball around a little bit, Dejounte Maria is a player option next year. And for me, when I look at it, Dejounte, he signed the extension with us at the Hawks at a number that at the time he could have gotten more, but he wanted the stability. We were ecstatic when he said, hey, I'm going to take the extension instead of waiting to free agency because we're like, whoa, like that. That's great news for us that we got you at a number that we thought we would have to go higher or we're going to have to figure this all out because he wanted that security. And he's a guy who, you know, he's come from a tough past and he was like, hey, I want this money. I want to know where I'm going to be and I want to keep on building. And so it'll be interesting to see what he does with that. But if I'm looking at it, I look at all these teams with cap space next year if Dejounte does not sign an extension, I could see him going to many of these teams that are just looking for a solid influence on their team and a guy that can come in and bring him some consistency. So Dejounte is a guy that I know in New Orleans. They look at him as some of their culture is kind of building with him. We'll see if they try to extend him off that.
- [30:19]
Zach Lowe
So I'm glad you mentioned the cap space landscape because there is some potential for a bunch of teams to have between 30 and 60 million dollars or so in cap space next summer. But that's so variable. It's, it's hard to, it's hard to project it. It's. And it's inevitably going to be less than that once some of these extensions happen, once options are picked up. Like I have a Sar Thompson on my list for the Pistons. There is a world where the Pistons could open up like $40 million in cap space, but it requires them to like not bring back John Collins, who's on a non guaranteed deal, not being Duncan Robinson, who's on a slightly partially guaranteed deal. Decline the team option on Ron Holland, which by the way, if Ron Holland doesn't have a good start to the season or a good season, like he has an $11 million or something player option or team option in the fourth year of his rookie deal, you know, that could get a little dicey. But like none of. And Jalen Duran takes a below market deal, whatever it is. Like the Pistons are not going to have that level of cap space for, for all those reasons. But there is variability. Dejounte Murray was not even on my honorable mention because I just need to see like New Orleans is such a mystery box to me that I can't go out on a limb at this point extending a veteran point guard where like I'm not really sure what we're doing as a team and what his function is with Zion Williamson and Jeremiah Fierce, who I really liked as a rookie point queen. Like, I just don't know like Dejounte is in that is in that I would call it a sour spot instead of a sweet spot of like he's, he's good with the ball, he's best with the ball but he's like I'm just making up A number the 20th best guy at being best with the ball at his position. And so like that doesn't get me that far as a team. And he's not that useful off the ball because he's undersized as a defender in a lot of matchups at the two and his jumper is just so, so from three. So I'm staying away from. I think he's quite a fine NBA player. I just am not extending him at whatever market value he's going to want. Okay. My pick. You're making me look bad with all these. All these, like, slick, fun names. I'm just gonna keep going chalk until there's no more chalk. And I'll say, Michael Porter Jr. 40 million dollar expiring contract, $40.8 million coming off a career year where I thought he had a real All Star case. He didn't end up playing enough games really to get super consideration. And the Nets were bad. Can fit offensively on any team in any system. You could probably name a bunch of contenders who could use a player like him. And the Nets, because they have cap room, have a whole bunch of options with him where they could raise his salary up this season and then extend him on a deal that declines. Now, that I think affects his tradeability. I don't think you can trade him as quickly if you do it that way, or they can just extend him out off the $40 million number up to a certain number. That makes sense. Like I said, I don't. If I'm Michael Porter Jr. And he's represented by Mark Bartlestein, who's as good as it gets. I have to look at that landscape of cap room. I'm like, I'm not sure, like, all these players and agents especially, they see $41 million and they think, well, I'm Michael Porter Jr. Is 28. I think I should earn more than that on my next deal. It doesn't always work that way. And there's not going to be necessarily like four teams with max cap room just jostling for you. If I were the Nets and I would go to Barlstein and maybe I'd get laughed out of the room. And I'd say, how about three years, 120. Like, I think that's fairly fair. We keep your salary around 40. Tack on three more years into your early 30s. It's not like you've been a beacon of health your entire basketball career. I might even go a little less than that if I were the Nets, just to see if he would bite. And then that becomes a very. Both a very tradable contract, I think, and also one that, hey, I have all these young guards who need outlets to catch and shoot our passes and space the floor and all that stuff, he's a nice fit for that, too. So I think there's. And if it goes sour, if those extension talks, which I assume will happen now, the Nets have all year. There's no deadline. They have all season to do this. There's no October 1st deadline or anything. So maybe nothing happens before the season. But if Michael Porter Jr's agents want to talk before the season and those talks are either shoved off or don't go well, I don't know what happens from there. Those situations can get wonky fast. So he's a very interesting player who could swing like legitimately swing the balance of power to some small degree if he's traded.
- [34:55]
Grant Liftman
I completely agree. I definitely. He's somebody that I had in my honorable mention list as well. And for me, I look at it as, and I'm going to throw this back at you, it the best version of mpj, like on a title team, which number play like who is he on a team? Which number guy is either your third best player is your third best scorer in a title team.
- [35:18]
Zach Lowe
I think he could be your second best scorer and your like third best player is the way I would put it. I think he could be a legit. He just doesn't create on the. I mean he was better creating on the ball last season than we've seen in the past because he had to be. Not sure that's ideal for a team that's like really, really trying to win at the highest level. But could he average 24 a game and be your second leading scorer and your third best player and your team is really good? I think so. I don't see why not.
- [35:43]
Grant Liftman
Yeah, so, you know, I'm close to, I would probably say third or four, you know, like in that realm. And to me that's where the $40 million range. I look at percentages of the cap, et cetera. That's like your third best player if you have two max players above him. And then you have to kind of really thin out your bench after that and kind of rely on the mle or less. If I'm the Nets, I just try to do this either way. Exactly what you're saying. Because at the end of the day, either he's staying with you or he's a trade piece and you try to get assets. Because with the Nets he should get his numbers. And we've seen over and over again these guys come to the Nets when they haven't been playing well as a team, but they get huge numbers and then they send them out and get a ton of draft picks. That's happened multiple times. Mikel Bridges, Cam Johnson, Michael Porter Jr. Almost happened again. So you do start wondering, is it real or not? And the one thing we know about Michael Porter Jr. Is he's been there, right? He's been with Denver, he's done this. So I actually. I mean, he was probably one of the biggest red flags of health when he came out of the draft. He had so many issues. And really, in truth, while he's missed some time in his career, he really has been pretty healthy overall. You know, you have some question marks. So I think he's a great fit. And I know for a fact, like, at the deadline, just before the warriors lost Jimmy Butler for the year, like, his name was real as a potential there because he was somebody that you could just plug right next to Draymond Green and Jimmy Butler and Steph Curry, they would have felt great. And I could see MPJ really getting off to a good start again, especially if you have him on a good number, let's say 40 for three years, where a team has team control over him and add him to the roster, and he's great. So I love that one. That's a. That's a very good one right there.
- [37:16]
Zach Lowe
And honestly, like, I might not even open with 3. 120. I might open with less than that if I were the Nets. Just. Just to see. Just to see how it goes.
- [37:25]
Grant Liftman
Ye.
- [37:26]
Zach Lowe
Before we get into the second half of the draft, I mentioned before I had an aside for you. This happened to me today, and I need your take on this. I was at a traffic light today, and two cars in front of me, whoever's in the passenger seat just finishes a banana, opens the window, and just drops the banana peel onto the road next to I95. And I'm like, man, that's bold. We're stopped. Everybody can see you doing this, and then people can look in your window and see who it is. Then I did some Googling because I was like, maybe banana peel is like, it's biodegradable. Maybe it's like, it's not actually considered littering anymore. My brief Googling around was like, no, it's still littering. You shouldn't. You shouldn't do that. It's like, it's less bad than litter. Litter, but still bad. Would you, Grant Liftman ever do something like that, or do you consider it littering?
- [38:16]
Grant Liftman
I do consider it litter. The word biodegradable did come up in my mind, and I started thinking of compost. Right. When we're composting, where does a banana peel fall in the range and the spectrum of compost? Right. What's the most compostable things? Is compostable a word?
- [38:30]
Zach Lowe
But I just. You just. You just made it one.
- [38:32]
Grant Liftman
It sounds like a word. I just. I personally do not have it in me. Maybe it was the way I was raised to drop anything I could.
- [38:38]
Zach Lowe
I couldn't believe it. I almost. If I were. If I were like Michael Douglas and falling down level enraged at the world, the old man movie reference there, I would have gotten out of the car because we were at the light for like two minutes. I could have gone out and be like, dude, you just dropped a banana peel on the road. Just like, just hold banana peel in the car until you get to a garbage can. The reason I brought this up is because on the last group chat podcast, Justin Verrier, who is just like, I don't know how old Justin is. He's younger than me, but his soul is much older than even mine, had just this great rant about the decline of civilization basically being symbolized by. When you as a driver extend a courtesy to one of your fellow drivers, you wave someone in, you stop them in the back, out of a parking spot, you expect in return, little wave, little acknowledgement of some kind. Give me a peace sign, give me a salute, give me a wave. I will say it really resonated with me because I am an absolutely elite waiver as a driver. Like, if you give me a courtesy, you are going to see me wave at you from the car and I'm going to be enthusiastic about it. And it just got me thinking of all the little things that we all have, these little things that, like I've said before, I think there should be citizens arrests for, like, bad subway behavior in New York City is a long tape. If you get on the train while people are getting off the train, I should be able to execute a citizen's arrest. If you just gather at the doors and you don't go to the middle when there's space in the middle, I should be able to say, these are grounds for us. These are my pet peeves. If you're standing on the left side of an escalator and people behind you are trying to walk up the left side and you don't realize it, Citizens arrest. Citizens arrest. Right off the bat, if you stop on a sidewalk in New York City to take a phone call, to take a photo, to look at your map, and you're in the middle of a sidewalk, these are the things that are the decline of world society. So this banana peel thing really stuck with me because I was like, this guy just boldly just plopped it right down there at a traffic light. I don't think I've ever seen such blatant littering.
- [40:51]
Grant Liftman
This is actually the speech that's going to resonate with me. You could have said anything in this draft that we're doing right now. And this will not resonate with me as much as you're saying right now. Everything you're saying is a massive pet peeve of mine. And I'm so convicted. My convictions and like, I really. This stuff matters to me. At the end of the day, if I'm walking outside, it is a super windy day and just a napkin, probably a biodegradable napkin flow. It flies out of my hands even if it's 50 yards down. I'm sprinting to get that thing. That's how. That's how neurotic I am with it. So I appreciate you saying in the elevator. I just. It just kills me when someone walks in the elevator before I get out. Vice versa, all that stuff. But really, it's that wave part that gets me. And my wife knows this.
- [41:33]
Zach Lowe
Varia was on fire. Everyone should go listen this. He was absolutely on fire. I couldn't believe. I never thought anyone would be as passionate about it as I am. And he's more.
- [41:41]
Grant Liftman
Yeah, no, no. It's like. I won't say I have road rage, but, like, it angers me if you. I will. I will be so grateful. You could do anything to me. You pretty much give me a. A fender bender and then wave to me afterwards. And I'm okay if you just wave to me. I'm happy. My one thing to you, Zach, and this is. Actually, I thought a lot about this. Glares on cars as they're driving by. I've always wondered how long you have to hold up your hand on a wave because there's multiple times I can't fully see the driver. And I like. Do I give them the benefit of the doubt if I didn't see a wave, that maybe during the glare time they gave a wave. And that's been. That's been bothering me for years now. And I don't know the answer.
- [42:19]
Zach Lowe
I got another one for you, actually. You mentioned glares on cars. My mind went to. Can we just. Can we all agree. Can you just everyone not do whatever it is that you're doing to make your car and. Or motorcycle noisier than it was to begin with. Like, who. Who wants this? Who. Even the person driving the car. Yeah. You startle everyone around you. Is that what. Is that what you're going for? Do you think that makes you powerful or cool or ultra masculine or whatever you're going. It just makes you fucking annoying. Just the cars If I were mayor of the world, people, that would be illegal. You're not allowed to make your. You're not allowed to add artificial. Okay. Anyway, we're done. Make your next extension.
- [43:02]
Grant Liftman
Pick.
- [43:03]
Zach Lowe
The banana peel really set me off.
- [43:04]
Grant Liftman
No, I get it. And I feel like we can do a whole pod doing this because I have a whole list of pet peeves. But I digress. Yeah. Can we talk about Asar? You mentioned him. He's on my list.
- [43:13]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, he's on my list. Let's do it.
- [43:15]
Grant Liftman
He's going to be 24 next year. You know, first time I ever saw him, I was like, this guy could be one of the best defenders in the league. And then, you know, it's very obvious he is an elite defender. And we saw it during the playoffs especially. I got a chance to cover with NBC, the Magic Pistons series. And just when he's on ball or even off, he's just an elite, elite defender. Smart guy, physical, strong, does it all bounce out of the gym. But he's a 10 points per game, guy cannot shoot, there's no spacing. And you're on a team where there's a good chance they end up paying Duran a big amount of money. He can't shoot either. Right. It's not like Cade Cunningham, some elite shooter either. But the point is, if you're three top guys and two of them cannot shoot the ball, that is a dangerous proposition. And when you're looking at a Sar Thompson, you start looking at comps. And I always love this part of negotiation for extensions, because when you talk with agents and you're doing these negotiations, everyone goes, you know what, I don't want to do comps here. I don't believe in comps. But then comps start coming out and then the other group goes, well, if you're going to comp, let me throw a comp back at you. And so Asar, I'm sure the comp is going to be, well, Dyson Daniels got $25 million a year for four years. And you know, that's going to be the range, 25. Jalen Suggs got 30. And then they start well offensively, this and this and this. At the end of the day, I look at percentages and I say, can Asar Thompson be your fourth highest played player, paid player on your team and be a championship team? Because that's where the Pistons are trying to be as a championship team at this point. And at some point, you're going to have to see a growth offensively for me to get behind that because an elite defender is as important as anything in today's league. A guy you can put on ball and say just shut down that guy. But if he is that much of a negative offensively there's an issue. I do think he's gotten better. I think he will continue to get better, but the shooting piece is tough for me and I just. It's a very interesting one to see of how much willing, how much money they're willing to give.
- [45:17]
Zach Lowe
It was a strange year for both the Thompson twins last year where the kind of linear growth that everyone hoped to see didn't really come, at least statistically for either player. The idea of putting the ball more in a SARS hands was was posited before the season and it happened like a little bit here and there but not, not very much. That said, the numbers you threw out if I'm the Pistons and I can get a SAR Thompson at Dyson Daniels money, I'm doing backflips and I'm doing it immediately. I'm betting on both the Thompson twins. That doesn't mean I'm maxing out a SAR. I think Amen has a better case for the 25% max contract and just be careful about because if he, if you negotiate that language in and he wins defensive player of the year, you've got some more money on your you can go up to 30% if you negotiate it, which Wemby did not. I think Assar is going to be a very good offensive player at everything but shooting and unfortunately shooting remains still the most important part of being a good offensive player. But I think he's going to be a great passer, a great cutter, a great offensive rebounder. The free throw shooting is problematic and bodes poorly for his jump shooting, but I just think he's so indispensable on defense. He's probably the second best defensive player in the NBA right now. Maybe Scotty Barnes over him behind Wemby or Chet. I guess you could throw him in there too. I just, I want him on my team and I understand the spacing problems that he endurin represent together. But Duran is I believe 22 and Asar Thompson is 23. Doesn't mean that they're suddenly going to blossom into great shooters. I think Duran has a chance to blossom into like a just good enough mid range shooter where you These are like first world problems. You just won 60 games with an imperfect offensive alignment that we all knew was going to be worse in the playoffs when defense has become better More focused and the sort of chaos points that the Pistons really feast on on the fast break. Offensive rebounds, random backdoor cuts. Those get closed off a little bit by defenses that are just being more diligent about all of it. So that all happened, but he's on my list because I just think there's a very wide range. Like, there are certain negotiations that are easy, and, like, you're either a minimum guy or you're a max guy. There's not much to negotiate. This is one where I could see it being much like Jalen Duran, a messy negotiation, which is why I would expect, at the end of the day, particularly the longer this Duran thing goes, I would expect the Pistons just say, we'll play it out in restricted free agency, just like we are in Duran, but I don't know that that's going to happen. All right, my turn. I'm going to throw a curveball at you now. You ready?
- [47:51]
Grant Liftman
Yep.
- [47:52]
Zach Lowe
What is this? The eighth pick of the draft. We're flying through this. I'm going to combine two players in one. But the. But the headline player is Pascal Siakam, who I just don't know if many people realize that he's already eligible for an extension. He has $49 million this year, $53 million in 27, 28, and then he's an unrestricted free agent. He is eligible for a three year, $206 million extension, which is insane, and nobody is ever going to do that. He's 32 years old or 31 years old or something like that right now. The Pacers have a bunch of guys who are eligible for extensions. Tyrese Halliburton is already eligible despite having three years left on his contract. By the way, I do think I understand extensions are a very useful tool for players and for teams, can be very mutually beneficial. It just feels like three years left on an extent on a contract. It just feels a little early. Like, Desmond Bain is eligible for an extension, and you get players who are like, I'm a star player. I want all the money locked in immediately. And if I'm a team, I'm like, dude, you have three. Can we just not. We have 18 months to talk about this, but Pascal Siakam is at the age where, if I think both sides could go in and say, we can get something out of this. And. And. And the Pacers, who are in win now mode, just almost won the championship two years ago. If I'm the Pacers, I'm like, I don't know what, but I don't know what the fair deal is. I don't know what the deal is that he's going to accept. We're not going near that Max, obviously, but if I went to him, I was like, hey, man, look, you're going to be 34 when this deal kicks in. We want to give you some security. The cap hasn't jumped quite as much as league projections over the last couple of seasons. Would you take three years? 125? Yeah. It's a huge pay cut. It's like a $10 million a year pay cut. Maybe he's insulted by that. Maybe. Or would you take two for 90? So $45 million a year. And as the Pacers, I might actually go up to. I might secretly be willing to go up to two years, 100 million, stay away from the third year completely. That seems like fair ish to me. He's eligible, I believe now, and the other guy is. If it's Azubac is eligible in September, he'd be coming off a $21 million contract, so you can go 140% of that. I think those are both really interesting. The Pacers don't have much on the books beyond 27, 28. I think they'd probably like to see how this team fits together with Zubots and everybody here before making a decision. But Siakam is an interesting case to me. I'm just flagging it. I'm flagging it.
- [50:31]
Grant Liftman
I like that. I agree completely. I don't think. I think people underrate how important he is to that team. And I also think Zubots is an interesting one because they gave up a lot to get him. And so you have to figure that one out. Nemhardt is another guy that's extension eligible. I feel like I just saw Nemhard in the numbers they gave him and I was like, wait, what? And now he's already extension eligible again. But the point is, Siakam, they signed him to that deal originally, and I think part of their mind was, hey, we're going to get Jairus Walker, we're going to develop him. And by the time that Siakam is starting to get a little older, whatever Jairus Walker steps in. Jairus Walker just did not develop into the guy that they were hoping for. So.
- [51:06]
Zach Lowe
Not yet. Not yet. So far there's been flashes. There's been flashes in both shooting and playmaking that are interesting. But to your point, I think the two year, $16 million deal for Kelly Oubre is a shot across the bow at Jairus Walker and Just be like, hey man, if you don't, if you don't develop this year, like we have an out now where we couldn't do something else with you.
- [51:27]
Grant Liftman
Exactly. So, but yeah, no, completely agree that it's definitely worth watching. And as you said, this year is going to be very important for Indiana to kind of figure out what they got. Let's pivot to a rookie. Brandon Podjemski with the Warriors.
- [51:41]
Zach Lowe
He was, he was on my honorable mention, so make the case.
- [51:46]
Grant Liftman
Okay, Just, just at the end of the day, we're talking about LeBron with the Warriors. We're talking about this and that and how old they are. And this is going to be 24 next season. And for some reason, and I'm not going to say for some reason, I understand why warriors fans and, and a lot of people around the league and you know, there's some mixed, mixed thoughts about Pudgemski and a lot of it is just his bravado that he brings out there and his style of play. It's not the most aesthetically pleasing way of playing either. But the Guy put up 14, 5 and 4 last year. He's like a career 37 and a half percent three point shooter. He played all 82 games last year. Those type of numbers usually mean a significant extension that comes. Let's keep in mind the warriors do not have money on the books in the future. Jimmy Butler's max contracts expiring, Steph Curry's due for an extension. Draymond Green, we do not know what he's going to do. There's a good chance if LeBron doesn't come, he could just really just match whatever his playoffs was going to be and he'll be an expiring as well. The most money they have on the books is practically Moses Moody's number going forward. So Podjemski is a guy to me that at 24 years old, he's a guy that you lock up and you keep on this team as, especially when you have the money. And analytically he is a good player. He's a good player for them when he's on the court.
- [53:05]
Zach Lowe
Analytically. Analytically is a dirty word now, Grant, after the Kenny Atkinson fiasco. Analytically, Analytically, Brandon Pasky is Michael Jordan 2.0.
- [53:15]
Grant Liftman
To be fair though, I, I, I don't want to get into too many details, but the, the, the conversations you have during draft time between your analytics department and the scouting department are just fascinating because the analytics will be like, this player coming out has a chance to Be the next Steph Curry. And then you go, I'm sorry, are we looking at the same player right now? What are you talking about? And then it just. It just. It's such an interesting conversation, but we'll get into that another time. Anyway, to me, it's going to be $25 million to 20 to $25 million extension. I think that's where his realm. I think his people will be like Christian Brown. That's the number that you should be going for, et cetera, et cetera. I think anything between 20 to 25 is very reasonable for Brendan Podzemski. And I actually, if I'm the Warriors, I try to get that done. And I do not try to go into next season trying to figure this out, because there is a world that exists where people get hurt again and, and. And Podzemski has to play a very big role, and all of a sudden he's averaging 17 points, et cetera. I try to get this done right now. I think he's a really good player. I think he'll. He'll mature and he'll become more of the guy that I think people want him to be. But I have my eyes on it because people are sleeping on the fact that he is a big rookie extension this offseason. Coming up.
- [54:30]
Zach Lowe
I like Pods. I think Pods has kind of been a punching bag for some segments of the warriors fan base through almost no fault of his own, through the front office and particularly Joe Lacob kind of talking him up as the next big thing. I think he's a very good player. He could be. I mean, you mentioned Christian Brown. I said this on my last pod. These $20 to $30 million deals for guards and wings are so interesting because you can talk yourself into all of them the moment that they happen. Like Christian Brown. Yeah. Winning player, good defender. Probably the best perimeter defender on the Nuggets pre Peyton Watson's emergence. Great chemistry with you. Okay. You pay $25 million a year for a player like that. Keegan Murray. Yeah, it's a little. Made me a little nervous, but like, yeah, maybe it's a little overpay, but like $30 million for a 3 and D guy with some feel like that's kind of what you pay Kobe White. And I would assume there will be test cases of this too. Even I mentioned, even Malik Monk, who is like completely untradeable right now in the moment he signed his deal, which is like 20 a year. Like, yeah, six man of the year candidate comes off the bench slinging Threes, good passer, like that's just kind of what you pay. And like then all those deal Jalen Suggs, all those deals are underwater. Like they're untradable. Not Kobe and IO, they're just fresh. The others are like underwater and untradeable. So they feel easy and yet they can turn bad fast. But I agree with, I think Pods is good. He's a good connector. Feels like a fifth starter on a truly great team. Which is, which is fine. And if I'm the Warriors, I can get him for 4 for 80. I do it. If we start going towards like 4, 104, 110, I might just be like, we're cool, we're going to wait, we're going to wait till the summer. But he was on my honorable mention
- [56:11]
Grant Liftman
list and very quickly I completely agree with you for those numbers and that's why I brought up that model of you have the two maxes and you have two, three positions to be like MLE or a little above that. And that's where the percentage is 9 to 15% of the cap. And does this person, does Christian Brown fit into that mold? And that's important question that you have to ask when you're doing this. And very rarely does it work out where you say like haha, we got him at this price. And for instance, when I was with the Hawks, we got Jalen Johnson at 5 for 150 at 30 million. And if he had gone hurt again and all that would been like, oh my goodness. But at the same time now you're looking at $30 million a year and be like, we got to maximize player at $30 million a year. So yeah, it could work both ways, but I see it, a lot of them do go underwater.
- [56:55]
Zach Lowe
Okay, let's take a quick break. I'm going to make my last real pick and then we'll just fly through some others that were on our honorable mention list. All right, for my last pick, I'm going to go under the radar and bypass some, some sexier names that we'll just throw in an honorable mention bucket. I'm going to nominate Jalen Wells because I just like these sort of under the radar opportunistic deals that teams and players can strike. He's making like essentially the minimum right now as a second round pick. I mean functionally about the minimum. And they have a team option on him for $2.5 million next year. The Grizzlies do. I think Jill Walls is, is pretty good. I think his place in the rookie of the year race in a weak Rookie of the Year race got him a little bit overrated and he was maybe a little bit over his head in terms of the level of responsibility he had last year on the Grizzlies. I think this year with Cam Boozer coming in and Zach Edie supposedly coming back, we'll put him in a more natural, put him back to his kind of natural water level as a solid 3 and D guy, 67 with some passing chops, attacking closeouts and all that. If I'm the Grizzlies and they're a forward thinking smart team, he's eligible for. I think I wrote down the number according to Bobby Marks, 4 years 92 million. I'm not going anywhere near that. But if I can say if I can go to him and get him on some sort of like mid level ish deal for four years or something like that, I'm going to try to broach that and see how it goes because that could be a really good value deal on a really good value player. And I just think those are the kind of like Peyton Pritchard is eligible for a similar, a similar extension with Boston. Now he's accomplished. I think Peyton Pritchard is. Where do I have it?
- [58:37]
Grant Liftman
Somewhere.
- [58:38]
Zach Lowe
Three years, 67 million. And this is because the new extension rules. You can go 140% of your prior salary, which in Peyton Pritchard's case is not up to where he needs to get or 140%, I believe, of the league average salary, which is how you can get Peyton pritchard on a three year $70 million Ole Miss contract. Those, those can be sneaky valuable plays for teams. And so I just, I just have my eye on the Jalen Wall situation, that's all.
- [59:04]
Grant Liftman
Yeah, no, I love it. I actually compared to the Champagne extension, that's a good one. With The San Antonio, 3 years 45.
- [59:10]
Zach Lowe
Right.
- [59:10]
Grant Liftman
Very similar type situation where they had a team option they could with but instead lock them up. Now you mentioned just a bunch of guys, Payton Pritchard, all these guys I actually had on my list as well a little bit an honorable mention. Because again, a lot of it comes down to does the player just want security? I look at the Colin Gillespie deal and I say, I mean I think the sun's got a steal on that one. And Colin Gillespie at the same time goes, I just got $48 million or whatever. You know, he feels good, but the Sun's got a great player at that number. And if he was on the free agent market. If he was a rookie going to extension, he probably would have been asking for 20 to 25 million dollars a year. So again I agree with you completely. If you can get a guy that are on these options, the second round picks undrafted, you pick up these guys. It's literally the dream situation for a GM and a front office because you can get deals like that.
- [60:02]
Zach Lowe
I love the Suns. Let's do rapid fire honorable mention because I have some sun stuff. I thought the Suns had four really good contract signed this summer. And not just good like oh they are stealing money like for like they're oh what a steal for the team. Four good and fair contracts. Gillespie at four years 48 something like that. Mark Williams at three years 36 ish. Luke Kennard one plus one six, six and change a year and Jordan Goodwin two plus one about six and a half a year. All grade value contracts. Their candidate for this draft, which I passed up on and I think is one of the biggest wild cards in the league in every sense of the word is Jalen Green, who has $36 million guaranteed this year and a $36 million player option for 2728. The Suns also are looking at extensions for Dylan Brooks and Miles Bridges who they just acquired. And if you pay those guys about what it's going to take to pay them and you pay Jalen Green something around where his player option is for next season, you're looking at a team that is suddenly not including the dead money on the books like $20 million over the tax. And that just feels like too much money for a team that's just pretty good at its ceiling. I think they're intriguing. I think they've actually done a good job cobbling together an intriguing group of young players with almost no resources post Durant trade. But that was one of my, one of my honorable benches. You want me to just zoom through some others?
- [61:33]
Grant Liftman
Well, I just, I want to agree with you said about the four contracts they signed were really good and I think it's just you know people really gave for right rightful reasons. The the Suns a lot of crap for a while for just being just like when ISHBA came in just firing away at all this stuff. But I think they've done really some frugal and smart deals. But yeah, it'll be interesting to see what they do with Dylan, Miles and Jalen.
- [61:54]
Zach Lowe
All right, here's some other honorable mentions I have you ready? You could just play almost like word association. RJ Barrett
- [62:02]
Grant Liftman
that's a great one because the Raptors. He's been in trade rumors for now for four straight years. Depending on what team he's on. That's going to be an interesting one because he's actually more productive than people have actually given him credit for.
- [62:13]
Zach Lowe
I think he's underrated. Kind of a jack of all trades. A legit unrestricted free agent after this season.
- [62:21]
Grant Liftman
No.
- [62:21]
Zach Lowe
No options of any kind. $30 million right in the sweet spot. Where like oh, 140% of $30 million. That sounds great as a starting salary for RJ Barrett. Probably sounds horrible to the Raptors. What about we keep it about flat? Does that sound better for you? So he's, he's on my, on my list. Of course they have to know if Kawhi Leonard is on their team or not. Anthony Black among the rookie deal class. Orlando already has almost $200 million on the books for 2728, which would give them 15 to 20 before they hit the tax line. And I've said for a year, more than a year, one of these expensive dudes is getting traded and it could be Anthony Black and some sort of sign and trade transaction because they just are not going to carry all these guys on the team. I like Anthony Black a lot. Kind of a disappointing playoffs for him, but he was coming off a late season. You missed some time. I think he's a good player. I wouldn't even begin to know what sort of value I place on him. And he's probably falls into that $20 to $28 million bucket where you're just like, okay, sure, maybe it'll be a bad. Maybe we had a good deal. If I'm his agents, I'm looking at the Suggs contract and being like, that guy doesn't play well. Can we get more than that? So that's, that's an interesting one.
- [63:39]
Grant Liftman
I agree with you completely. Anthony Black is a player that I actually am, I'm pretty fond of. I think he has a really high upside. And I think at the end of the day, if the Magic had their way, they would move off of Jalen Suggs contract and put Anthony Black in that spot instead.
- [63:52]
Zach Lowe
I can't believe neither of us picked. I mean I'm wearing my Danhausen Knicks T shirt right now. I can't believe neither of us picked a combination of Karl, Anthony Towns and Josh Hart. Maybe just too obvious that we all knew the Knicks second apron issues have been so well documented. The Brunson next contract is not going to be presumed. Presumably not going to be a discount. Cat has a $61 million player option for 2728. Josh Hart. The Knicks hold a $22 million team option on him for 2728, which they could just sort of lock in and then extend off that eventually. But just guys to guys to monitor.
- [64:31]
Grant Liftman
Yeah, those are very clear ones and you're going to laugh at me. In fact, on my list, I thought we. Again, I thought I was going to find the most interesting thing. I had Miles McBride on my list. Deuce is interesting because they cannot afford him. He's made about $18 million in his career. By the time the season is over, he's going to want to get paid. I'm not saying he's a massive piece for them, but when you're looking at depth and you look at players like that, they're paying this money to Alvarado and Sham it just to keep that part that bench afloat. Miles McBride is going to be a good piece for somebody, maybe a six man or that type of thing. And the Knicks will not be able to afford him. So I don't think he's able to get an extension.
- [65:06]
Zach Lowe
When they resigned Alvarado on a very good deal, one of my first thoughts was, well, they might have to trade Miles McBride because there's just not enough room for all of these guards off the bench. They also could just be like, hey, we just won the championship. We'll keep everyone together this year. We're going to need everybody at some point and then just let them walk in. Free agency, no harm.
- [65:25]
Grant Liftman
Yep.
- [65:25]
Zach Lowe
No foul. Jalen Brown. That's been well publicized. I wouldn't really go there if I were the Sixers. I think Brandon Miller, that'll be an interesting negotiation because he is the. When healthy, he, he has the kind of rising track record and positional flexibility that you would typically go in and be like, oh, we're just to supposed. And we're just like Franz Wagner. I got the max. I'll get the max too. And I think the Hornets are run pretty well and understand the leverage that they'll have in a restricted free agency. But like Brandon Miller's last 30 something games last year, 40 something games. Again, not a coincidence that the Hornets surge really started when he became healthy and available and productive consistently. He was not far from being that player that we only saw for 30 or 40 games. So take it with whatever grain of salt you want. Was not far from like, should he be in the third team? All NBA, just fringe conversation at least. So he's, he's on my list. I mentioned Payton Pritchard Tyler hero, new Milwaukee Buck, Denny Abdia. I just want to mention because his salary is so low that he's almost unextendable unless the Blazers are able to open cap space and renegotiate him up and extend him out. Scoot Henderson.
- [66:45]
Grant Liftman
That was my guy. That was what I was going to say.
- [66:47]
Zach Lowe
Scoot Henderson and his $40 million cap hold if he goes into free agency as a restricted free agent next summer. I don't even know where you begin to negotiate that. And that means you probably don't because not only is he missed like what, half his games, if not more in his three in his time with the Blazers, but he's been sometimes productive, sometimes unproductive, had a very nice finish the last season, but also almost kind of changed positions from point guard to off guard, combo guard, something guard next to Denny Abdia and all the other millions of guards they have on the team now, including John Moran. And of course they have, as Bill coined him, El cheapo Tom Dundon, who's just firing everybody. I mean it came out today that they don't care about the broadcast quality of their team. So Haberstroke gone. Kevin Collaboro, one of the great play by play guys in NBA history. They lowballed him. He's gone. I don't know why going to happen to Lamar Hurd. I don't even know if they're going to have a real broadcast next year at this point. So Scoot wouldn't be optimistic about Scoot getting a huge, a huge contract extension. But he is. I'm. I never gave up on Scoot. Five games, literally five games into his return last year I did a mini episode where we did like the Scoot Brandon Miller draft debate. Clearly the Hornets made the right pick. But even then I was like scoot, Scoot still got something and I just don't know what it is.
- [68:10]
Grant Liftman
No, I completely agree with you. Everything you said. Also remember John Morant's on the books. Drew Holiday and Dame both have player options next season. Drew has a $37 million. They have a locked up Shaden Sharp. They have Tomani Kamara. Danny's gonna have to get paid. The chances of them paying Scu Henderson, I don't want to say zero, but I give 2% chance they extend him because a they don't even know what they have with him. As you said, he's had stretches where he shoots like, like 45% from three and then the next stretch he shoots nothing. So I actually still have a spot on Scoot Island I actually really like him but to your point he's not a point guard, he's a combo guard. I think he can do a lot of things his shot, his health, all that matter. But I'll give it a 2% chance he gets an extension done.
- [68:54]
Zach Lowe
I think you got to go alliteration when at all possible with your NBA geography so I would go Scoot Straights I think you're sitting in the Scoot Straits. Here are some that I would mention. I would I filed under the almost too obvious to devote all that much time to Steph Curry this summer. I believe he's eligible for a two year extension in August at some point. Nicole Jokic that's been well covered. He is not going to sign his extension this year and he has already said I will resign with Denver and live here for the rest of my life. NBA life anyway, we'll see. Darius Garland I've already talked about if I'm the Clippers. I'm saying no thank you. Let me see you play and then we'll we'll revisit DeAndre Hunter hard no Case and Wallace talked a lot about him in the aftermath of the door trade. They're obviously going to extend him. It's just going to be a matter of how big the price gets. I I love Case and Wallace. He's good. He'll be on the Thunder one way or another. Who else do I have here?
- [69:57]
Grant Liftman
They have to keep in mind AJ Mitchell's coming up soon with a contract too so you have to worry about like he's AJ Mitchell is one guy I just want to put out there that I think can run an NBA team in a couple years and be one of the starters in this league. I'm unbelievably high on AJ Mitchell so he's going to be costing a lot of money soon.
- [70:15]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, he's next in line. He and McCain are both eligible for extensions after next season. Casen is eligible now. I would be very surprised if the Thunder didn't take care of him with with the Dort in the aftermath of the Dort trade where he and Caruso are now sort of like the co number one stoppers on the team with Dort himself is eligible for an extension. I don't know. He's on an expiring deal. I don't know what the Hawks will do there.
- [70:41]
Grant Liftman
I'm so I know there was a lot of people like oh it's pretty obvious they'll accept. I actually don't. They have a lot of guys that play that same position. I wouldn't be surprised if they let this one play out throughout the year and then figure it out afterwards. Another interesting day I want to throw by you is Derek Lively.
- [70:55]
Zach Lowe
He was. He was literally the next guy I was going to mention.
- [70:58]
Grant Liftman
He's just. He's just. People forget about him but two years ago with Luka and everyone he was going to be the next big thing. He was going to be the center and we've seen how the center position this off season is just so you got to find a guy right now because everyone's getting paid. But he's only played 44 games in the last two years and he just, just get. They have Gafford under contract. I doubt they get something done. But if I'm them, if I do think he can get healthy and that's their doctors, their health. They are the ones that know the truth behind Derek Lively's body. I would actually try to get a low ball team control thing done because if he gets healthy and goes his last year and plays really well for them the numbers between what you can sign now versus what you can sign later, it's just astronomical difference. But that's up to their health officials. There you.
- [71:50]
Zach Lowe
You just described exactly why I think there will be no Derrick Lively extension. I He's Clutch as well. He's. He's with Rich Paul and Clutch. My guess would be that they will not entertain whatever Dallas is willing to offer be precisely because Dallas will go to him and say hey you haven't played much. Here's an extension that would be palatable and they'll just say we'll bet on ourselves if if they. If they have faith in a self will bet but we'll bet on ourselves. Naji Marshall also sneakily extension eligible. I mentioned Keldon Johnson. The spurs have a lot of big money issues coming down the line. Jalen Smith speaking of decent NBA backup centers not Derek Lively is a backup. I don't mean to say that he's not. He's a starter when healthy and then I'm going to conclude at least my honorable mention with with one that is near and dear to your heart. I'm guessing also sort of like under the radar extension eligibility.
- [72:40]
Grant Liftman
Anyeka Kongwu that's literally who is my one person I was gonna say to
- [72:44]
Zach Lowe
conclude for myself 16 million this year, 16.9 guaranteed in 2728 and again an extension where you can go up to 140% of the average salary or 16.8 million whichever is higher which caps it at a number that I think, I don't know that the Hawks will go all the way up to whatever that number is, but presents the opportunity for a congu to lock in some money. Remember, this is a guy who is not a full time starter for most of his career and I think even last year there were some doubts about whether he would be when Porzingis was there and really emerged as a stalwart two way player for them. A little undersized as a rim protector, rebounder, but like a good player. And his three point shooting appears to be very, very real and very important for how they're building out their team with a bunch of so, so three point shooters around him. That just seems like there's an opportunity there for both the Hawks and a congu to figure something out ahead of time that makes sense. Might be a year early, but I, I don't have any opposition to them trying to figure something out.
- [73:48]
Grant Liftman
I love Double O, he's my guy. I just. When we signed him to the deal that he's on right now, at that time we were like, please shoot the three ball, please shoot the three ball. He was hesitant, but we saw behind the scenes that he could and I'm just so glad he's starting to launch. The one thing about Inyeka, one thing that we also saw was we even actually played him at the 4 a few times with Quinn Capella and he played well. And now that he's really shooting the three ball, I think that's what makes him more versatile, is he can actually play the four and five. And when he's being able to do that, it just brings a whole Swiss army knife thing to him that I just, I'm a huge Nyeka fan and I hope it works out there. But I also could see other teams being like, hey, like I will play a premium to get him and bring him in as a Swiss army knife for us as well. And that gives the Hawks an opportunity to go after like a Hartenstein type player in the future that they think maybe could fix their rim protection a little bit more.
- [74:39]
Zach Lowe
All right, Last thing that has nothing to do with any of this, I'm going to get nostalgic. Are you ready? Did you see the ESPN layoffs this week?
- [74:48]
Grant Liftman
I did, yes.
- [74:49]
Zach Lowe
Obviously I'm familiar with the process. Gone through it and also having gone through it when the call came in is I was ironing my suit in my hotel room in Los Angeles, all the way across the country from where I live, about to go on Television. I am familiar with the entire process of it. I have no judgment. I have no emotional feelings really about it one way or the other. I certainly like, I think the blame Stephen A. And McAfee stuff is like, it's not their fault that they're wildly popular. That's what they should be doing. The one thing I will say was one of the names that got. And I don't know any, literally, I have no relationship with any other people who got laid off. I've never talked to Ryan Clark. I've never talked to Carl Ravitch. I've never talked to David Lloyd. I've never talked to Stefania Bell. I've never talked to any of them. I have no relationship with any of them. I just want to shout out Carl Ravitch, 33 years at ESPN. How old are you, Grant?
- [75:37]
Grant Liftman
I'm 39.
- [75:38]
Zach Lowe
So you're 10 years younger than me. You may have missed. There was a period of time in the late 90s through early 2000s when Carl Ravitch, Are you a baseball fan?
- [75:48]
Grant Liftman
Oh, Baseball Tonight was my favorite show ever.
- [75:51]
Zach Lowe
I mean, literally, I would. It was that eight year span when the A team on Baseball Tonight was Ravich, Harold Reynolds and Peter Gammons was like the best show on television. All television. I watched it every single night. Now this is pre Twitter, pre social media, pre. You already saw the highlights. It was a unique environment that doesn't exist anymore. I get it. But those three guys, to the point that when you would flip it on, I would fist pump. I had roommates. We would all gather to watch it together at that time. We would fist pump like the A team is on. It was absolutely indispensable. And he was the driver of the car. He had his own little catchphrases for highlights that were really funny himself. I just want to shout out Carl Ravish because that's a lifetime of
- [76:39]
Grant Liftman
work
- [76:39]
Zach Lowe
and that kind of show almost doesn't exist really anymore. And I just wanted to shout him out because that show with those three guys in particular was as good as in my mind, a lot of people go NFL primetime and NFL primetime was awesome when it was Berman and Tom Jackson and Mort and all that. And I watched that too, but I just wasn't as big an NFL fan. To me, that Nightly show was with those three guys was as good as ESPN ever got and has ever been.
- [77:12]
Grant Liftman
I completely agree. Baseball Tonight to me is actually one of the reasons I even wanted to get into this side of the business because I actually. They look like they're having so Much fun. And not only that. Between watching that show and then getting up in the morning and reading the newspaper, looking at box scores of baseball games the next morning, it's just those combination that got me so excited every day. Yeah. Ravage just to me was just, it was just awesome. I agree back the feels. I listen to the music when it goes in and like it would just be, it'd be the best. So I, I completely agree with you. It's. I just, it's just such a. This crappy part of this business. This whole thing of the layoffs and every year, every year we have to talk about this. It just sucks.
- [77:52]
Zach Lowe
All these people will land on their feet and be fine. Apropos of which listeners, regular listeners of this podcast will remember that I was supposed to throw out the first pitch at a Mets game in late June. The game got rained out, of course, because why would anything go right for the Mets this season? Or for me personally as a baseball fan this season? Your boy is throwing out the first pitch on Saturday at Citi Field before Mets, Dodgers. Have I practiced throwing off a mound? Yes, I have. Am I a little bit nervous? Absolutely. But I'm, I feel ready. I feel like I'm going to be in the zone and I'm throwing off the mound. I'm not going to do any of this. Chicken, chicken shit. Throw it from in front of the mound. I'm not calling anyone out. Okay? Like there are certain people, literally, they're too old or too young or too weak to do it. I am an able bodied 48 year old male. I am throwing from the rubber on Saturday.
- [78:45]
Grant Liftman
Can you do me a favor? First of all, this is my dream. And if you're listening, San Francisco Giants,
- [78:49]
Zach Lowe
just remember, they suck. Right? Don't they suck this year? Yeah.
- [78:53]
Grant Liftman
The Mets and the Giants, they pay a lot of money and they, what
- [78:55]
Zach Lowe
do they have going for them? Bring you in as a crowd, Pump up the crowd. What else, what else is happening?
- [79:00]
Grant Liftman
At least give it like, I'm like, they can all boo me or something. But will you do me a favor? First of all, when you get out there, do the little flick of the wrist like I'm throwing fastball, right? Like, right. But like actually put some heat behind it. I am so sick of people just kind of like, I'm not saying throw 80, but I'm just like, put it on a line. I don't want to.
- [79:18]
Zach Lowe
I'm going to try to put it on a line. I'm going to try to put it on.
- [79:21]
Grant Liftman
Don't give me any curvature. I want to see it on a line.
- [79:23]
Zach Lowe
Because everyone's advice is don't miss low. If you miss, miss high. And so that nessus that makes you just want to just throw a lollipop up there. I'm going to try to throw what passes for me throwing a ball in a real way. I have joked, but my family's just like, you just not embarrass us in any like. And for, for. That doesn't mean a bad throw. That means like, don't, don't ham it up. And so I'm like, can I check on the runner at first? Can I look? They're like, don't, don't do that.
- [79:50]
Grant Liftman
Anyway, flick of the fastball. Like, flick with a, with a glove hand and then what, what arm slot are you coming over the top three quarters? Where are you coming from?
- [79:58]
Zach Lowe
It's a great question. I don't, I throw how I throw. And I've never analyzed if it's, if it's not over. It's probably three quarters. It's probably. I enjoyed, by the way, the all speaking of the p pitches, the All Star, we watched the All Star game because my daughter is now, unfortunately for a Mets fan slash baseball fan. I don't know how long they've been doing this, but I enjoyed the, the pitcher and the catcher being miked up and talking about what pitch they were going to throw. I thought that was really cool.
- [80:22]
Grant Liftman
That was cool. I don't know if that's a new thing or not, but stuff like that, I actually is very enjoyable. I think all fans like that. I don't know. Some of the other fluffy stuff, not for me, but that, that, that's pretty
- [80:32]
Zach Lowe
co. All right, well, let's go Mets. Grant Liftman. So tell, tell everyone, like, what your NBC responsibilities are going to be next year because we saw you do a combination of things. You' office insider, you're doing some sideline. Is that going to be the same next year? Where are we going to see you?
- [80:44]
Grant Liftman
Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you can find me on NBCSports.com they put up a lot of videos, especially during the offseason, putting up a lot of stuff, especially on YouTube. YouTube. And you find those things. But in the, during the season, I'll be doing some studio work, really trying to explain things. They call me a little why guy, why something happened. I'm not going to be news breaking. I'm not going to be sitting there saying, like, this is about to happen. It's more news breaking. And Such. So it's going to be a lot of fun, and I'm excited to do it, and we'll be doing something again where I'll be doing courtside and all that, but happy to be here, man. Do you remember the first time we met, Zach?
- [81:18]
Zach Lowe
I believe we met at Oracle arena or outside Oracle Arena. Am I misremembering that? When you were doing. When you were doing TV and audio stuff for the Warriors.
- [81:27]
Grant Liftman
No. So we actually knew each other because I had to ask you to come on for that. It's really sad that I remember this, but I was kind of a rookie at Vegas Summer League. This is a decade ago, maybe further back. And I show up and I didn't really know what I'm doing, and I show up at this dinner at Javier's, the Mexican space.
- [81:46]
Zach Lowe
Oh, I do remember. I remember this exact dinner. I can remember the cast of characters. Who is there. So what was the warriors dinner?
- [81:52]
Grant Liftman
Yeah, it was a Warriors dinner. There's like 20 dudes there. And I show up and I didn't know what I was showing up for, and I bring my girlfriend to it.
- [81:59]
Pharmaceutical Advertiser
Yeah.
- [82:00]
Zach Lowe
It's a sad. It's a sad time for her.
- [82:02]
Grant Liftman
Yeah. And you're like, oh, no. Like, you're the guy that brought your girl.
- [82:07]
Zach Lowe
I've done it before.
- [82:08]
Grant Liftman
Yeah. And I was like. I was like, oh, no, what have I done? And so luckily, she's awesome and she could hang, and she probably knows more about basketball than I do. But, like, the point was, was that I was like, you really? Like, you wanted to make it known that you're the guy that brought the girl to dinner. And I was like, yeah. I tried to own it a little bit, but deep down I was like, man, Zach's right. I just, like, I'm that guy.
- [82:28]
Zach Lowe
I remember that dinner that still is a hotspot at Vegas Summer League, that restaurant. Grant Liftman, it's great to see you. Virtually. It sounds like I'll see you around the circuit next year. And Maybe by then, LeBron will have signed Grant Liffman, everyone. Thank you, sir.
- [82:44]
Grant Liftman
Thank you.
- [82:47]
Zach Lowe
All right, that's it for today's edition of the Zach Lowe Show. Thanks to Grant Liffman of NBC. Thanks, as always, to Mike, Jonathan, and Billy on production, and thanks to you all for listening to and or watching the Zach Low Show. We will be back next week unless LeBron signs. In the meantime, it'll be next week and with a couple more episodes before I head out to my annual Europe sojourn. So look out for that and thank you all for listening and or watching the show. Today 21 are over and President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President, D.C. kentucky, Air West, Wyoming gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or 1-800-MY-RESET. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or is it mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland? Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050. For 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPENY or text Next Hope NY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867.