← The Zach Lowe Show
Loading summary
Transcript279 lines
- [00:00]
A
Foreign. Up on the Zach Low Show. We have a trade. Repeat, we have a trade. Trey Young. The Atlanta era is over. He has been traded to the Washington Wizards for C.J. mcCollum and Corey Kisper. Rob Mahoney is here to break it all down. What does it mean for the Hawks? Is there another shoe to drop? Is there another move coming now that they've cleared away $50 million of salary next season in Trae Young? Does this make the Hogs better? Does it make it worse? Does it even matter? The Wizards. Why? What. What happened? The Wizards got Trae Young. Did they extend him? No, not yet. Are they going to. Oh, how is this going to work with all the wizard young players? Is good for them. Which ones is it good for? Which ones is it Dicey for? How is Trey going to fit there? Are they worried about losing their draft pick to the Knicks? How are they going to handle that? Lot to talk about with Trae Young. Sad day for the Hawks in a lot of ways, but, hey, you move on. And then Rob and I pick our 12 Man All Star squads for the west and the east, and I got a little wacky, I gotta tell you. Got a little wacky, especially in the east, where the pickings are a little bit slimmer than I would like. We have some disagreements, some. Some big disagreements, actually, with a Western Conference player in particular. And in the east, we're just all over the place. And then as we do that, we talk about everything that's in the news. The Knicks and their losing streak. The Nuggets. Oh, my God, the Nuggets. Three and two without yok. After a great win in Boston, the Thunder, kind of still scuffling, took overtime to beat the Jazz at home. Really? Giannis made some comments about never requesting a trade. What's up with Kat? We talk about all that coming up on the Zach Lowe Show. Welcome to the Zach Low show, where I'm done giving my off air hot takes on television and how nothing is funny anymore. And Rob Mahoney is here to talk about a big trade and some all Star picks. Rob Mahoney, how are you? What did you think of my takes?
- [02:01]
B
I mean, you had some stuff to get off your chest. Let's just be honest about it. Do you not have enough people in your life to talk about TV with?
- [02:07]
A
I don't. And am I ready for prestige tv? Is prestige TV ready for me to come on and just talk about how all these shows are bad? That's. I'm just. They're all bad. Every show's bad.
- [02:18]
B
We're going to do the equivalent of Mets Corner and just tack on 10 to 15 minutes of you at the end of every pod ranting about whatever show you hate right now.
- [02:25]
A
Yeah, well, this show got nominated for 15 Directors Guild Awards. Is there nothing else on TV? This show is bad.
- [02:32]
B
You getting mad at Directors Guild Awards snubs is really, I mean, really just peak. Zach Lowe as far as I'm concerned.
- [02:39]
A
I just, I was on Instagram, an actor who I follow his show was nominated. The show was not good and that's all I'm going to say. Rob Mahoney, Trey Young in what should be a rude awakening for Trae Young, for any team attempting to trade a somewhat distressed max level player, whether it's Memphis, New Orleans, Charlotte, whoever, I don't know if any of those teams are really doing this. Trae Young is now a member of the Washington Wizards because, of course, Trae Young, after his tenure in Atlanta, successful by most measures, conference finals appearance, some epic Trae Young games in that run, fluky as it may have been a just cemented place in play and tournament lore forever and ever, was traded to the Wizards, who decided we don't want $80 million in cap space this summer. We want trae Young and 20 and $35 million in cap space, which we can still play with. For Corey Kispert, who I think feels like he's played eight games this year. Hair always looks great.
- [03:38]
B
It does. Thumb not looking great, but the hair does look great.
- [03:41]
A
And CJ McCollum, who has been legit good for a Wizards team that is, I believe, 7 and 6 in its last 13 games, sort of flirting with being frisky and competitive. The Trae Young era is over. The Hawks get two players who I think can help them this year. But more than anything else, they get two expiring contracts. They get out of the uncertainty, slash probability of Trae Young opting into a $50 million contract. I got to tell you, Rob, pretty anticlimactic stuff. A lot of this will be a lot of my judgment of this will be what happens next. Does Washington extend Trae Young? They are not currently. They did not as a part of this trade. There was some rumblings yesterday that they were going to. I wonder if that's why it took a little longer. They can always revisit it in the summer. If Trae Young plays well, doesn't pout, doesn't completely hog the offense and stifle the development of some of Washington's young players. That's Quite an if we'll get there. And the Hawks, you know, the Anthony Davis rumblings are out there. I'm not sure how much the Hawks front office actually wants to trade for Anthony Davis, but by dumping one $50 million salary, they do have a little bit more wiggle room to acquire Anthony Davis, who will make $54 million this year, $58 million next year, and has a player option if he's not extended for $63 million in 2027, 2028. As you may be aware, Rob Mahoney, Anthony Davis doesn't play in all that many basketball games for the, for the buck.
- [05:16]
B
Yeah. The idea of going from the Chris Apps Porzingis roller coaster to the Anthony Davis roller coaster, that's just cruel. For. For as good as both players can be just does not feel like where you want in terms of setting the stability for your franchise.
- [05:31]
A
You want to start with the Hawks or the Wizards into this?
- [05:33]
B
Let's start with the Hawks. I feel like it's simpler in a lot of ways, which is I am bummed out that the most exciting Atlanta Hawks since Dominique Wilkins, like, this is how it all goes down. This is how it all ends in just like a whimper of a trade that I get why we got here in the end, but I'm just sad that it came to this point where it is, with all due respect, CJ McCollum and Corey Kisper, like, that is a, that's a sad trade return for the Trey Young era.
- [06:00]
A
It certainly is. There is no question that this is rock bottom for Trey Young's trade value. It is 1000% true that had Atlanta wanted to, they could have traded T.R. young for more than this any number of times to any number of teams over the last two or three years. I don't think there was ever. I don't think there was ever a massive, like, crazy offer. But I have, I don't even think in the last year there's been like a BB plus offer. I think. I think time just wasn't on their side. But had they actually engaged the possibility, seriously, in the last two years, let's say 2.5 years, they could have gotten okay return, certainly better than this. And this is like, you know, but this is one of those things. Like, yeah, they sold low. It's a hard conversation to have with an owner three years ago when you're, when that Conference finals appearance is not so far in the rear view to be like, you know what we should do? Should sell Hyde now. Like, that's a very hard conversation to have, but there's no question that they could have done better than this. I don't know what the specific teams were. I know that there were teams that sort of cycled in and out of the. Hey, maybe we should make some calls about Troy Young, like the spurs, the Magic, the Jazz, the Bulls, the Raptors. And. And I'm not saying there were hard offers ever available, because a hard offer requires actual, real discussions that I'm not sure there were ever really, really serious discussions. But no question, this is selling very low. And I. There's, you know, no other way to say it. And really, we do need to look back at the original sin of all of this, which is trading Luka Doncic for Trae Young and the pick that became. Became Cam Reddish.
- [07:41]
B
It was right there.
- [07:42]
A
And so, you know, the Hawks join an illustrious group of teams that had Luka Doncic either had him literally, or had him for the taking. The Hawks, the Suns, the Kings, who had picked one and two in that draft, and the Mavericks should start a support group of like, you know, hey, does Marvin Bagley get invited to the support group meetings? Does dominating get invited to the support group meetings? Yeah, I don't. I don't, you know, I don't know what's I like. The Hawks were better without Troy Young this year. Jalen Johnson is now the face of the franchise. It is sad, though, because I kind of had thought the Hawks were building the right kind of team to tolerate Trae Young's defense.
- [08:27]
B
Same.
- [08:27]
A
And that Trae Young had taken baby steps toward, you know, I can move off the ball a little bit more, I can set more screens on and off the ball, and maybe I can even dial that up 10 to 15%. And that's like, actually a pretty good fit with this team. And it turned out it was like, kind of dead on arrival this season in a way that surprised me, certainly as a Hawks optimist.
- [08:47]
B
Yeah, I think the balance of all that was just way too delicate. And when they reintroduced trade of the lineup, it's like their defense just kind of like left out from under them because all of a sudden they didn't have length at every position and the switchability, like, they had this liability in the lineup that presented real problems when you don't have your best rim protectors behind you all the time. And then offensively, you're right. Like it. Ultimately, they never really found the flow with this group. And I think Trey, over the course of that extended trade saga you laid out, or would be trade saga over the last couple of years where they maybe could have pulled the. Like, pulled the trigger on a few different potential deals. He kind of boxed himself in where he's already a particular flavor to begin with. And so if you don't like his play style as a general manager, then maybe he's not for you. And then he's also not the easiest personality to kind of anchor a franchise around sometimes. He also has the injury history. He's also, I mean, just one of the worst defenders at his position, even among stars, like a genuine problem. And when you lay all those things on top of each other, all of a sudden you're going from even for a hyper, talented playmaker, maybe eight teams are interested to six teams are interested to three teams were interested. Like, you're just whittling down the market too much. Where you end up with the Wizards basically shrugging and saying, like, why not? As opposed to being super eager to begin the Trae Young journey.
- [10:05]
A
Yeah, I did enjoy the, I'll say, borderline propaganda of. Trae Young has identified the Wizards as a team he really wants to go for. Go to. Trae Young wants to go for the Wizards. He's sifted around the league and identified them as his team.
- [10:22]
B
Print the tweet, hang it as a banner, like, this is a great moment in Wizards history. How dare you take it away from them.
- [10:27]
A
Well, also, how about there was no other team really in the running right now, and so the choice was nothing or the Wizards. And obviously Trae Young wants to go to a place where he can play and hopefully get paid on an extension. And I just enjoyed the, like, as if they had this dossier of, like, really good deals for Troose this. To choose between these six great trades when there was only one team that was really engaged with the Hawks on this. I wouldn't rule out an extension for CJ McCollum, by the way, which is kind of what I mean by TBD on how to judge this. What do you. Yeah, I mean, look, Trey's defense is what it is. And I said this last week. You could almost see the other players on the team when he came back sort of readjusting to, oh, we gotta, like, overload the entire side of the floor again. Like, we got.
- [11:20]
B
We.
- [11:20]
A
We were playing, like, one kind of defense, and now we have to play this, like, all right, everyone's gotta shift over here to help Trey kind of defense. So I didn't miss. I didn't miss this so much. I don't know. Wizards. I don't. I Don't know. What do you think? Why?
- [11:36]
B
I mean, the why is just he's so talented and so capable and is such a good organizer in terms of putting everyone in their spots and like running coherent offense, which is something they just do not have. The Wizards are a really bad team. There's really no way around that. And so I get talking yourself into it from the perspective of, oh, we're going to throw out a player who's better at running offense than C.J. mcCollum, who's an incredible threat to score, who we've seen elevate Hawks teams into playoff runs. Like, that's a real thing that happened and gave the whole franchise like a propulsion behind it. That's all real. I think where I have a problem with it is for as bad as the Wizards are, like, the one good thing about where they are right now is the opportunity for discovery. And Trey Young is not a discovery point guard. He is a I'm going to run the offense. You stand in the corner or I'm going to run the offense. You set the screen for me. Point guard. And like, would Trey Johnson's had a crazy couple of weeks. Would he have had those couple of weeks if Trey Young is already running point? I want Alex Sar posting up maybe twice or three times as much as he otherwise would be on another team. I want Keyshawn George trying to split doubles and maybe turning the ball over because of what that's going to mean three years from now in terms of his development. And I know I don't think anyone, or at least, you know, if you look around the NBA landscape, people aren't super bullish on any individual Wizards prospect except maybe Saar, who's taken huge steps this season. But the players in this team aren't screaming Luka Doncic level superstardom, but they are screaming opportunity and that they could be a little bit more than they are or a couple steps further along if you give them the chance. I think Saar is the perfect example of that. Like, how could we have anticipated his offensive jump this season if he didn't have the like airspace that he has? And Trey Young, for better or worse, he sucks up a lot of the oxygen in the room. He takes away a lot of that opportunity and he might make the Wizards marginally better this season, but I'm not like super eager to make that trade off, honestly.
- [13:33]
A
So I think there's no doubt that he's going to help Sar. I mean, we've seen Trey get centers paid with lob dunks and Spot up threes for a guy like John Collins when he's playing the four, he'll get SAR easier buckets than SAR is getting now. By the way, I'm super high on sar. I know Castle is now the consensus. Like he should have been the number one pick in that draft.
- [13:54]
B
Right.
- [13:54]
A
I, I like if you told me who has the better career between Sar and Castle. I'm not 100% convinced the answer is Castle. I think Sar can be, can be that good.
- [14:03]
B
Well, let me ask you a question about SAR because I agree with you. Trey Young is going to get him easy opportunities. Is getting Alex Sar easy opportunities. What's going to make him better? Or is getting him hard opportunities as he's had to like convert around the basket this year? Is that what's going to make him better?
- [14:18]
A
So I think, I think that's the right question. And there's a, it's, it's a fine line because on one end you have, I don't want Bilal Koulibaly and Keyshawn George and Bub Carrington drowning because they're so overwhelmed by the task in front of them and there is no actual point guard on the team. But I also don't want them turned into spot up shooters watching the Trae Young show and for this to be worth it for the Wizards because I do think they want these young guys to get into more competitive games and they think Trey Young can help with that. And they were in competitive games in the last three weeks already in part because CJ McCollum was helping with that.
- [14:58]
B
Yeah.
- [14:58]
A
And he was going to be a free agent. And I do think there is a part of their, I think they want to make the shot diet, the dribble drive diet for all those players easier, but also don't want to take all of that responsibility away from them. And that's the onus on Trae Young to not just be like, all right now it's my show. You all just stand around and watch me. And that's going to be tough. It's going to be tough for Brian Keefe and the coaching staff. It's going to be tough for the front office. The one lever they hold over him is the money because they haven't extended him yet. They don't have to. And they could get to the end of this and be like, you know what, it was a mistake. This was the trade show in a way that we did not to a level that we think was actually bad for the development of these young players. Some of whom are drowning, by the way, like Bilal Koulibaly is kind of drowning on offense. And we'll just sort of like we'll either try to re flip you for better value than, you know, we had to give up to get you, or maybe you'll opt out because you have another deal lined up. We'll see. Speaking of all of this, the Wizards now join the Jazz as members of the top eight protected pick club. That is suddenly a little bit interesting because as I said, They're 7 and 6 in their last 13 games and they just upgraded to a pretty elite floor raiser, as you said, which has got Knicks fans going bananas because the Knicks get the Wizards pick if it falls out of the top eight. The Wizards right now have the fourth worst winning percentage in the NBA, which would give them a 100% chance of picking in the top eight. The fifth is like 99, sixth is like 97. And then after that it gets a little dicey. I'm just going to tell you, I wouldn't get too excited if I were a Knicks fan. I think the Wizards are going to do what it takes to stay in the top eight. And if that means that Trae Young's quad contusion takes a little bit too long to heal and oops, there's a setback and it's going to take a little bit longer to heal again, I think that will be okay. But you're asking the right question of the art of player development in game drowning, having things made too easy for you, spoon feeding guys. I think there's going to be a happy medium that they're going to have to try to find. And part of it I think will be, I think they'll probably sit Trey if they start winning too many games and so he will just be again removed from the equation.
- [17:17]
B
Yes. And ultimately, like you're right that the range of the Wizards prospects, those guys are all in very different places in terms of what they need. Bilal does need a little bit more help, bub. Carrington has been drowning at various points in the season, season. But it feels like he's kind of got his feet under him a little bit in a way that is, you know, maybe I'm just being optimistic about it, but I felt better about his play lately. It's hard to find the right fit and system and format and point guard for everybody at once. I think my concern is mostly just that we've seen, we've seen Trey on the rise with a lot of other young players around him and Some of those guys developed and some of them really stalled out as a result and maybe they never would have found their traction in their lane otherwise. I just think for who Trey is at this point, if he is not a pretty different player in his approach, the trade offs to this stuff is going to be pretty heavy. And I'm cool. I get how they got there. I just wish that they hadn't.
- [18:09]
A
Yeah. I mean also they are in the situation where they have to spend this money somehow in the off season. And I think plan A was probably once again be a destination for dead money in draft picks and they still will have enough money to do that. They'll have I think 35, 40 million of cap space even after slotting Trey Young in. And so it's like kind of no harm no foul in that sense as long as they don't do a crazy extension with him. And there is some art as many people have tweeted of like the, the sort of, the sort of like piling on the asset train from Beal to Chris Paul to Pool to McCollum to now Trae Young. And like I look all the, the Pelicans are just over here like around all of this like screaming trying to find, trying not to drown themselves for all the flack justified that they took for the pick, the trade that got them Derek Queen and now this. They have the worst record in the Western Conference and the Hawks on the rights to their pick.
- [19:11]
B
Yep.
- [19:12]
A
I never, and I said this right at the time, I never understood the McCollum for Jordan Poole trade. I didn't get it. Jordan Poole is just being Jordan Poole. He's flopping around and taking horrible shots and playing horrible defense. He's flopping so egregiously that he actually got called I think for a flopping technical a couple of weeks ago and he's got a year left on his contract after CJ's expires. I just didn't get that trade. And like here we are again with the Pelicans.
- [19:35]
B
I mean CJ at least accent plays like an adult and this is a reason why I think he can be helpful to the Hawks in the same way that Kisper can be to the Hawks. That is a team that for all of their struggles and their weird up and down stints, they've got a lot of options now and they have, you know, if for the night where Luke Canards defense is really killing you, Kispert is a little more sturdy in that particular way. For the nights where you need a little more juice where like Nikhil or Dyson Daniels are getting a little overwhelmed when they try to work off the dribble. You can stretch CJ even further and kind of milk what he can give you as a creator. I like the options they have. I don't know where it's going to take them this season necessarily, but when you have that New Orleans pick in your back pocket, you don't have to have all the answers right now.
- [20:13]
A
And Kispert brings a skill set if he's healthy that they just don't have like, you know, like they. He's more of a fast twitch movement shooter than even Canard is sure.
- [20:22]
B
And, and has well the vite creature racer right now. I mean be respectful.
- [20:28]
A
Vite is letting it fly. That's true. And Kispert, he's just more of like a traditional runoff pin downs and just run, run, run, cut all over the place shooter with a little bit of on ball juice when he catches it on the move. And a contract that's 13 million a year basically over the next two years after this one. And not only does he sort of give you some Luke Canard security blanket, he also maybe makes Luke Canard expendable. If you want to trade for Anthony Davis and Porzingis back to Dallas would be incredible. But Porzingis plus Canard plus a minimum salary gets you toward Anthony Davis, get you toward legal trades for Anthony Davis. Now there's some tax issues. You got to be a little careful. What do you think of Anthony Davis with the Hawks? If that's, if that's the outgoing thing and so you integrate him with, you know, the starting five could be Alexander Walker, Risa Shea, who there. I don't think they will trade for Anthony Dyson, who hasn't made a three seemingly in months, Jalen Johnson and ad and you can bring a Congo off the bench, I guess. What do you, what do you think of that?
- [21:32]
B
These are the two sides of my brain. One side of my brain knows and understands that Anthony Davis is a great player, incredible defender, inarguable, highly successful when he's on the court, not trying to take anything away from him. The other side of my brain that has watched him as a maverick this season and been consistently bummed out by not just like the lack of availability but the offensive decision making, the role he slots into the offense like the shots he wants to take and, and the way he is trying to play basketball for that team doesn't make me super bullish about the idea of just plugging him into the Hawks. Without issue. That said like they do need a big in his mold who is more available than Chris that sports and guess like he he does make he's a great theoretical fit for them that I can talk myself into. I've just been, I don't know. I just have not had fun watching him this season or felt that he's in particular contributing to like successful stable offense for the Mavs. And that worries me a little bit. If you're going to like make a big swing on someone like him.
- [22:32]
A
I I think you would be betting on a fresh start one step away from the Luca disaster and being the un un unfair and unwanting face of the Luca disaster.
- [22:43]
B
Yes.
- [22:44]
A
What and his you know, Rich, Paul and Clutch are clearly trying to figure out the trade market for him and find places that would want him that you'd get a little friskier like bounce in his step. Anthony Davis. I just keep coming back. It's like when people suggest to me that the Bucks should trade for Jeremy Grant because I think the Bucks are trying to buy and they will. And I keep saying I'll be surprised that they don't end up with one of these sort of big contract somewhat not even distressed. Just guys that make sense for their team to move on from them. I'm like Jeremy Grant just doesn't play enough games. Like he just, he's been out forever now and I don't even remember what his injury is. Anthony Davis has played 19 games this year and he makes 54, 58 player option 63. But he's going to want an extension for not any. And even if you tell me Anthony Davis will take like a Rudy Gobert style extension, like a pretty hefty pay cut, ends up being 35, 40 a year for three, four years. He's 35 when that extension kicks in. He just doesn't play enough for me to want to make that kind of financial. I just don't understand the point of it for the Hawks. I mean I get the defense, he's a great player, blah blah. He just doesn't play enough and he's just getting older.
- [23:55]
B
This is something we've been talking about a little on group chat too of with where the NBA is right now and the apron rule specifically. It's never been more punitive to be a $50 million salary sitting on the bench. It's never been more of a problem. Like I think there were times in NBA history where you could get away with a max or a near max guy who's not available quite as often these days, it's just an anchor around your neck, and it really limits what you can do, how you can maneuver. Like, you really have to have an incredible developmental complex with your team in order to compensate for something like that.
- [24:26]
A
Like, even going through All Star candidates, which we're going to do shortly. Like, I'm going through, you know, like, guys who deserve it don't deserve it. And like, you know, just like some guys have kind of like, bam, for instance, has had a pretty subpar season by BAM standards, and Pascal Siakam is just sort of forgotten on the Pacers. And I'm like, well, at least they play. Like, at least I can count on them to play. Most of the time I'm trying to think if I have any parting thoughts on. I mean, to me, this trade is like, ultimately, a lot of people are talking about it because it's the only game in town. Like, it's not. It's just not that interesting to me. The Trae Young era was clearly over. They clearly sold low. I think they're. Kispert and CJ can help their team. It's eh. And for Washington, it's kind of fun. I mean, I. If you ask their basketball people, did the morose environment at our games contribute to this at all, they would probably say no. I frankly don't believe that. I think that the morose environment, like, it's so dead that I think that a little. A little juice can't hurt.
- [25:30]
B
Yes. And Trae Young brings that. Like, I don't want to shortchange the personality, the play. Like, the energy he can give you when he's right and when he's really taking people with him. I think we're going to see some of that. I think we're going to see. Maybe this is like an uncharitable parallel, but, like, some of the energy that getting Russell Westbrook gave the Wizards once upon a time, like, again, it's like, does it make sense within the trajectory of where you want to go? Who knows? But ultimately, sometimes those kinds of moves do invigorate a team.
- [25:58]
A
Joe House has nothing but great things to say about the Russell Westbrook experience. So that would be. I think they would love that. And you just. They're not going to risk this pick this year. And I think. I think after next season, they want to be. I think their dream for next season would be they hit. They hit this draft somehow. Like, whoever they get is a hit. They keep the pick and they hit at the draft. So they have this nucleus of trade Johnson, who like you, I mean, the guy is just like lighting it up, just electric as a shooter. Koulibaly is all right. Like, I don't. More and more teams are putting their centers on him and being like, you just shoot, shoot over there. I like George. Bub off the ball is, I think better than bub on the ball. And Sar, I really like Gad one more guy, win 32 games with Trey or something, be frisky and then go in with cap space. I think that's, that's the aim here. I don't have any parting thoughts. You have any more parting thoughts?
- [26:51]
B
Good riddance to the Trey Young trade saga. I'm, I'm, I'm glad to be done with that and I'm, I guess, eager to see who he's going to be as a wizard.
- [26:59]
A
For now, we're done with it at least. All right, we're going to take a quick break and then we're going to come back and we're going to start picking our 12 man all star rosters. Rob Mahoney, let's do it. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by fanduel. You know how wild it gets when an NBA player goes off for 50. Now that moment could literally make you money thanks to FanDuel's brand new 50 piece jackpot. So if you think you know which player is going to have a big night, just visit fanduel.com LOW to take your shot at a share of the pot in bonus bets with the 50 piece jackpot. FanDuel play your game 20 or over in President select states or 18 or over in President DC, Kentucky or Wyoming must place eligible pre live wager on select markets. Prize pool to be split equally among all eligible participants who made the correct pick. Bonus issued is non withdrawable bonus batch which expires seven days after receipt. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut. All right All Stars. We're halfway through the season, more or less. It's time to actually pick All Stars. This is like I had done a few weeks ago. I did just my quick eye test. Look at the stats. Just go this. I've got my spreadsheet up over here with all the advanced numbers, all the candidates. I've got notes over here. This is my actual 12 man all star rosters for each conference. Even though of course east can't play the west, we can't make it simple. It's got to be this cockamamie thing we're doing. I want to start with the west because my east selections are fairly wacky and I want to save those for not wacky. There's just some interesting ones in there. How about this? Did you track how many Americans and international players you picked?
- [28:36]
B
I did. I ended up with 10 international players, 14American players between the two teams. So I would have to counterbalance with some extra Americans if this were the actual team.
- [28:46]
A
So a month ago I was. I had 14, 10 or 15, nine depending on how you classified cat.
- [28:53]
B
That's the question.
- [28:54]
A
I'm back. I'm now at 16. Eight. I nailed it. Just a plus for me. Adam Silver has no further decisions to make unless somebody gets hurt. No, like should we put LeBron on.
- [29:04]
B
Blah blah blah, Zach loves America first agenda. I mean I guess we. Stop.
- [29:09]
A
Stop. My wife can't. Okay, that's. Scratch that. Okay. In the west I actually in the west I had five Americans and seven international players. So the west is very international heavy. Can we just dispense with the no brainers?
- [29:24]
B
Yes. Let's, let's, let's just put them on the board right now.
- [29:27]
A
SGA Joker.
- [29:30]
B
Yep.
- [29:31]
A
Wemby and I don't want to hear about the minutes. I don't want to hear about the. From the minutes Police. When you're in the MVP first team, all NBA conversation and you're healthy right now so you're going to play more games as we go versus team guys that are hurt right now where you're ratio of game slave is going to go down. I don't want to hear it. Wemby's in. Luca.
- [29:49]
B
Absolutely.
- [29:51]
A
Curry.
- [29:52]
B
Yep.
- [29:53]
A
Is that four or five?
- [29:54]
B
That's five.
- [29:56]
A
Anthony Edwards. Got to have him. That's six. I would posit Chet Holmgren is a got to have him.
- [30:04]
B
Interesting. No, I don't have Chad on my list.
- [30:08]
A
Okay. So let's stop there. So we have six no brainers. Do you have. All right, give me your other. Like do you have any other. Like these guys have to be on the team.
- [30:17]
B
I think you have to have a rocket and how you want to attribute that credit is up to you. I ended up with both but I think you need at least one of KD or Alper and Shangun. I also think for as weird as they've been this season for the Clippers, I mean I think Kawhi Leonard has to be on this team.
- [30:37]
A
So I'm just going to go through my whole team and you and you go through your whole team and we'll see where we disagree because we agree on everything you just said. So I'm just going to go through it. So I think my starting five would be sga Joker, Wemby, Curry, Luka with, you know, I could move Ant in for Curry and be fine with it.
- [30:54]
B
And we should say the ballots this year and the All Star team format is completely positionless now.
- [30:59]
A
Yeah, totally positionless. You can do whatever you want. The actual starters that you vote in are not a team. They just play for their global status, I guess. And then I have my seven reserves like you. I have Alper and Shengun and Kevin Durant like you. I have Kawhi Leonard, which is just delicious. Kawhi Leonard playing in the All Star game at the Inuit Inuit Dome.
- [31:24]
B
Oh yeah. You got to have someone give the little pregame speech to the crowd.
- [31:28]
A
And who better to do it with the as yet unresolved aspiration case hovering over all of this? Maybe it'll be resolved by then. Maybe not. I have him. I have Jamal Murray. As do I. I have Denny Abdia.
- [31:40]
B
As do I.
- [31:42]
A
And I said Anthony Edwards and that leaves me with Chet Holmgren. So I think we are 11 for 12. I have Chet. You don't. Who do you have that I don't?
- [31:51]
B
I have Devin Booker.
- [31:53]
A
You know I'm going to hear from Suns fans and I get it because it feels wrong to not have a Suns representative given their the feel good story of the season. He would be my next guy in. I do feel like the Thunder getting two guys feels right to me given that they've dominated the league. Less so we'll talk about them. Less so of late Booker is averaging. Where is his per game stuff?
- [32:20]
B
They're down. I mean it's not 25, 6 and 4.
- [32:24]
A
46% overall. 29.6 from three weird year. 43%. The advanced stats never like Devin Booker as much as the regular stats and so he doesn't do well there. But he's been a gamer. He plays hard on defense. He's the leader of the team. He's unselfish. I don't have any issue with him. I just put Chet in. I guess I put Chet in over him because I think Chet's been outstanding and maybe the best non wemby defensive player in the entire NBA. Teams are shooting 49% at the rim. When Chet is there, he's just an absolute monster. He's averaging almost 19 a game on elite shooting and the only other person I Think that I could. You could argue should be pulled out for Booker. Kawhi, you could say based on games played, he's just been so.
- [33:09]
B
Yeah.
- [33:10]
A
Incredibly good. And the Clippers winning started when Kawhi became incredibly good again. I just think Jamal Murray has to be an overbooker. I think he's been better than Booker and I think Abdia has to be an overbooker. And you could. The Blazers are. Are obviously much worse than The Suns. They're 18 and 20. They're hanging in. And the only reason they are hanging in is because Denny Abdia is averaging like 26, 7 and 7 on efficient shooting, tons of free throws and the offense dies without him and is pretty good with him. So. So, you know, I just. I don't know who to pull for Booker. I guess it would have to be Chet or Kawhi. And I just think Thunder 2 All Stars feels good to me. Chad's been awesome. Kawhi is just better than Booker. I don't know. It's hard. It's hard. I'm sorry. Devin Booker.
- [33:57]
B
I'm a huge Chad guy too. So I'm personally pained by this. I think my thinking on it is I'm a little less beholden to like the Thunder need to or a team this good needs a certain number of all Stars kind of framework by the way.
- [34:10]
A
As am I, which is why I have no Suns because the sun should have. It feels like they should have an All Star. And yet I can't. I didn't do it.
- [34:16]
B
I don't.
- [34:17]
A
It's fine if he makes it. He's an unbelievable player.
- [34:20]
B
I think for the teams that do have multiple all Stars. I'm almost more persuaded by the Houston model where the gap between your best and second best player is a little slimmer and thus it's a little easier to kind of get them both on board. Chad is very persuasive as the best defensive player on the best defensive team in the league. It's also a defense that where he has a lot of collaboration with the all the ball hawks around him. All the pressure that those guys are applying on the perimeter. Not trying to take anything away from Chad. He's still a first team all defense guy. I think with Booker I was moved by even in a weird kind of underperforming statistical year relative to his standards, it being such a good vibes year for him and the way that those things kind of interplay and matter like ultimately he has not always been that kind of player on some of these Suns teams. Of recent years. I think his energy has been great. I think his leadership has been great. Obviously, he plays a really important role for them as just like a pure bucket getter. But this is one of the first seasons where I feel like in a while, at least, his malleability as a scorer has really rung through the games for me. And it didn't feel like a guy who was doing his own thing, but a guy who fits into a team that has room for Dylan Brooks isos in it. You know, like there is. There's a wide ecosystem in terms of what the Suns are putting together, and Booker's flexibility to me is what kind of allows it to happen.
- [35:36]
A
It's. He's been great on both ends of the four. Other than his shooting has not been where it normally is. And you might talk me into it, I don't know. I just. Chet. Chet's averaging 18 and a half a game. He's shooting 57%, 40% on threes, 65% on twos, and they're plus seven and a half per 100 possessions when he plays without SGA. Now, most of that is defense. Like the offense has not been good, but he's the driver of that defense. Yeah, I mean, you're just a hater.
- [36:09]
B
That's all that is it. But I may be a hater in that regard. I love that Jamal Murray, I hope will have a place on this actual team and I love that we both have him because I just. I admire the hell out of the season he's having and the way that he's been able to put together runs with Jokic, without Jokic, with guys in the lineup, without guys in the lineup. Like every possible setting for him this season he has been just completely steady, which has not always been the Jamal Murray experience. And it feels like he's really turned a corner in that way.
- [36:37]
A
Yeah, the only area where Booker has been better than him is defense, and I don't think it's enough to trump 25 a game for Murray. Seven and a half assists, 48%, shooting, 44% on tons of threes. And he's cemented it with these last two wins over Philly and last night in Boston for unreal. Well, he didn't play in the Philly one. What am I talking about? The Zombie Nuggets won that game. And then the going in and beat and beating Boston on the road and setting his career high in assists. The nuggets are 3 and 2 without Jokic. I predicted 6 and 9, I think was like I put the over under at six and a half. They're on pace to shatter that. We'll see if it lasts. Yeah, it's been a really impressive stretch for Murray as a playmaker, for Peyton Watson as a like as everything as like I just get to ISO and I can run pick and roll and I can hunt small guys on pick and rolls and just drive through them. I'm going to try that Zeke Najee. I've always been one of these like the last holdout on Zeke. We gotta. There's no Z words. I don't know. I'm flying along on the Zeke Zephyr or something like that.
- [37:42]
B
Yeah, I mean it is a little evasive. You can't quite ever pin it down. It's a strange place. The Zeke Zephyr and I have old.
- [37:48]
A
10 Things columns from my last season at ESPN. One of them is called Items is Free Zeke Najee and last night switching on defense, making shots. I mean it's been. I don't know what you've seen. Like Aaron Gordon's clearly rusty, Christian Brown's clearly rusty. And for them to go into Boston and then they won in Toronto. I was at that game in Philly with the Zombie Nuggets against the healthy Sixers and like that's a really tough. That's a really tough team. And it actually should scare everybody else in the league in the Western Conference that we both had them as legit title contenders. The way the Thunder have played in the last three weeks, plus the way these Nuggets role players like Jalen Pickett, like that guy's going to earn minutes now in the playoffs.
- [38:28]
B
Oh my God, he was incredible.
- [38:30]
A
If like I don't. The seatings right now in the West, 2 to 6 is separated by one game in the loss column. The Rockets are now 6 that 22 and 12. The spurs are second at 26 and 11. The Wolves are up to fifth. It's complete chaos. As long as they're not in the play in I think Denver is going to be happy and boy, good luck picking against them in a playoff series if they're fully healthy. And they have the joker.
- [38:57]
B
Yeah, I think they just had the right blend in terms of their role guys of really great opportunists. And this is one thing where like bringing back Bruce Brown has. Has paid dividends in that way where the numbers are never like jumping out of the box score, but they don't come up with the perfect transition opportunity at the exact time you need it. Tim Hardaway Jr. Has some of that in him too. For as much as you have to kind of like live and die with his streakiness and Peyton Watson. Like, to me this is the payoff for being a couple years into the Aaron Gordon silo of education where it's like you watch that guy and the way he attacks opportunistically every night and how could you not pick up how to play the best kind of volleyball you can, how to pick your spots better than any player in your role can. And when you stretch it out with his athleticism in this kind of role, you're seeing what it can do. I'm not saying he's going to have 30 every night, but it's. He can get closer to it than I think a lot of people might have expected.
- [39:49]
A
Yeah. And it's a big year for him. They did not extend him. He's going to be a restricted free agent. They have a lot of money on the books and I'm not sure they can afford to keep him if he plays like this because there's teams with cap space that are watching. But he's been, he's been great. And for them to be three and two is. That's a tough ass team. Aaron Gordon. To me, Aaron Gordon's legs are maybe now the biggest wild card in the entire NBA season because if he's 90 to 95% healthy, I just, it's. They, they are. I'm not going to say they're the favorites, but they are as good as Oklahoma City. If, if he's 90 to 95% healthy, if he's limited, he just brings so much to their team as a, as a passer, as a shooter, as a bully ball guy, as a multi switchable defender. Plugs every hole. I just couldn't be a bigger fan of Aaron Gordon and I'm just like knocking on wood and crossing everything that these calf, hamstring, whatever it is that they're taken care of by the playoffs.
- [40:48]
B
He's just the perfect flex player and like again someone that every championship team needs who again can do a little more, a little less depending on the circumstances. Really hard to find. Really hard to find those guys who also have kind of like the serenity and good head on their shoulders that Aaron Gordon has.
- [41:05]
A
I want your take quickly on what's happening with Oklahoma City. They beat the Jazz in overtime at home last night. The Jazz are the worst defensive team in the NBA and the Thunder put up 109 offensive rating against them which is very way, way, way below average.
- [41:22]
B
Yes.
- [41:23]
A
So 129 points. Looks like a lot. It was not a good offensive game for the Thunder. They once again could not hit a 3.7of38 from 3. Maybe that's all this is, that they're just in a horrendous shooting slump and that's why their offense is like bottom 10 in the last three weeks. When they've scuffled a bit, it looks a little. And also Dog days can't emphasize it enough. This is the time when, like, everyone's tired, All Stars come in. Like weird stuff can happen. Feels like something a little bit meaningful is happening to me. And again, guys have been in la. Carusa didn't play last night. AJ Mitchell pissed a couple of the spurs games. I get it. Hartenstein's out. And as I've said many times, I think Hartenstein, as great as he is on defense, is actually more important to them than offensively, than defensively.
- [42:06]
B
Just because of the rebounding or something else.
- [42:08]
A
Passing out of the short roll, they go from being a good offensive rebounding team to a zero offensive rebounding team without him. But so maybe it's just all of these things, and it's probably mostly all these things. But are you seeing anything beyond that that is concerning to you?
- [42:24]
B
I wouldn't say concerning because big picture, I still have a lot of confidence in the Thunder and them getting out of the dog days and getting right again. But you can see the shooting and kind of the downstream effects it has on basically everything else. I think that is the biggest factor is the way that that pressurizes when you're not making your threes, all of these other elements of their play and then not getting the offensive rebounds really hurts you then. I mean, I think this is a big one where Oklahoma City has this ridiculous depth. We've been lauding it all season. You can see it almost any game. They can kind of plug and play guys in a way that few teams can. But they've been doing a thing recently where, because Alex Caruso is out, you know, they're bringing Kayson Wallace off the bench to kind of stagger out their point of attack defenders. When you do that, you lose the feeding frenzy that is creating all of these turnovers. And they still create a lot of turnovers. But when Wallace and Dort play together, you create more. And when Dort and Caruso play together, you create even more. And when, when Wallace and Caruso play together, you create even more than that. And so there's these, like, additive effects of all of their best defenders that they're missing when they have guys out. And so it's like the more you have these opportunities where, yeah, you can compensate and get through these stretches where you're down three rotation players, you're just kind of like losing a little bit of yourself every time you do it. And the combination of those guys being unavailable in some combinations or all three of Dort, Wals and Crusoe not being able to shoot at all really lately and thus it's harder to keep them on the floor together. I feel like that's a problem if you're losing six to eight transition points a game based off the steals you're not creating.
- [43:58]
A
I think, I think that's mostly it. I mean their offense, their half court offense is never a work of art. You can watch games like that's pretty stagnant. There's not a lot of movement, there's not a lot of ball movement. Guys are standing around and I do think they could use a little bit more randomness to their offense. And I, and I, and I always like when they start possessions with Shay off the ball, just throw me a curveball, bring them up off a pin down for an empty side pick and roll. Let J Dub initiate the offense. I think they should do more of all those things. But people forget like part of the trade off for their relatively mundane half court offense is that they don't turn the ball over at all. You don't turn the ball over when you're not passing as much and trying to do as much daring stuff. That's. And that's a huge reason why they're successful. I will say the one thing I'm watching is, and I looked at the tracking data this morning on second Spectrum teams in the last month have started switching way more against the Thunder. Part of that is personnel. Like Charlotte in that blowout the other night switched everything with Musa Diabate as like a small ball, like very fast, very light on his feet.
- [45:01]
B
Hell yeah they did, Zach.
- [45:03]
A
Yeah, they did. And even the. But the Jazz last night switched Nurkic onto SGA and switched everything with like bigger plotting guys. And I think it's just these teams, like we're just not. We're going to make you earn the cracks in our defense. We're not going to put ourselves in rotation, we're going to make you put us in rotation. And if you look at the numbers for the season, the Thunder are one of the most efficient offenses in the league against switches. In the last month, they're one of the least efficient offenses in the League against switches and teams are switching like, what, like 50% more probably in the last 10 games than they were before. I think they have faced the third most switches overall for the season. The Thunder have, and in the last month, it's first. But a lot of this could be just like, you switch. Shay drives, he kicks. Those shots are just not going anywhere. It could just be that. Right? But I'm watching it now. I'm watching it, my eyes on it.
- [45:55]
B
It's all tethered together, and it's one of these things where the simplest answer is that it's the shooting, and the most complicated answer is that it's the shooting and that affects everything. And so I. I hesitate to say that they can't ever get out of this, because we've seen it and we know it, and we know that they've even had plenty of games where their defense is so overwhelming they can shoot for shit and it doesn't really matter. I'm confident that they're going to find that sort of ground again. They're just in a little bit of a lull right now.
- [46:20]
A
Can I tell you one other thing that I just. I. I saw the other night that is interesting to me, and it's, you know, it's spurs related. Spurs lost to the Grizzlies there, and I'm not going to read much into, you know, Wemby's coming off the bench in that game. He came off the bench again last night in their win over the Lakers. Vassell's hurt, and that's a big deal for them because he's the A plus shooter on their team. Memphis in that game, put Jaren Jackson Jr. On Stefan Castle and just said, don't guard him. Go treat him like Rondo. Treat him like Russ, like, just stay. Park yourself in the foul line. And Stefan Castle has won most of those battles this year when people go under screens against them. But most of those battles have been against guards. And when he met Jaren Jackson Jr. On the other end of those, it was a little bit of a different story for him. And I've kind of been waiting for teams to stick their big guys on Castle when they don't want to put them on Wemby when Wemby's the only five, and they've usually defaulted to Harrison Barnes or Keldon Johnson, who's having a whale of a six man of the year kind of season. And I just. You could see the Spurs. All right, this is one we got to solve. I'm just. I'm I'm just. Just something I'm checking out.
- [47:28]
B
Well, especially the. The weirder they get with their lineups and the more they want to put those guards out in various combinations, the more it encourages that kind of defensive experimentation, too.
- [47:38]
A
Do you want to issue some apologies to our snubs?
- [47:40]
B
I would love to.
- [47:43]
A
I've already apologized to Devin Booker, everybody in Phoenix, the Booker family. I love Devin Booker and maybe we can get him on the All Star team as an extra American guy if we need to.
- [47:54]
B
Yes.
- [47:55]
A
Who do you want to apologize to.
- [47:57]
B
In a different kind of season? Austin Reaves, I think, would have a pretty compelling case. I just can't find room for him when I'm finding room for Denny and Jamal Murray in particular. I feel like, you know, Reeves really popped at moments with, like, without luka or without LeBron or without both. That's just kind of what Denny Abdia does every night, is carry that kind of offensive workload and the defense just isn't even close. But Reeves is having a crazy season and there are going to be some really high scoring players between Reaves, Markkanen, Keonte, George. Like, these guys are putting up a ton of points, and I don't think any of them are going to make the All Star team.
- [48:29]
A
Yeah, Reeves, 27 a game, five and a half assists or six and a half assists. I think 63% shooting on twos. He's. He's the. The games played get him a little bit because it's. The ratio is going to get worse as he's out longer. He's played 23 games. Marketing. I mean, clearly, if you're going to pick a Jazz person, it's him over George. As great as George has been, it's marketing. And, you know, I just, It's. He's just getting squeezed. He's in the. If. If he's in the East, I think he makes it 27.7 points a game, 6.8 rebounds, 47% shooting, 55% on twos, 37% on threes. He is the only thing keeping them afloat. I just, you know, I wish he were a little bit more of a playmaker, but as we've talked about, his. His shooting and his off ball movement is kind of his version of playmaking, and Will Hardy makes art out of that. Tough. That's tough, man. I would like to. Can I make a couple apologies, please?
- [49:24]
B
Yeah, I got a couple more, too.
- [49:26]
A
Jimmy Butler.
- [49:27]
B
Sure.
- [49:29]
A
People are going to laugh at that because there's this sense that he's always too passive. Right. That he is just not doing enough for an old aging team that so badly needs people to do stuff that aren't. Steph, the advanced stats love him endlessly. He is averaging 25 and 5 on incredibly efficient shooting from all over the floor and they're plus 7 per 100 possessions. When he plays without Curry, like, I don't really think he's the problem, but I do think there's some truth to like there are just too many nights for a team that can't afford them where it's just like, man, we need, we actually need 28 from you tonight.
- [50:05]
B
Yeah, I think it's especially some of these other. Even guys who are getting snubbed just don't have those sorts of performances. Like they do show up consistently, at least on offense. And maybe that's counterbalanced by Butler's all around game and kind of what he does for you as a facilitator and communicator and all that. But I can't, I can't quite get there with all the other names on the board.
- [50:25]
A
Was that your, was that your apology to James Harden?
- [50:28]
B
It was kind of. I mean it is. It does kind of suck that James Harden did the heavy lifting of throwing the Clippers on his back when they were bad. And then as soon as Kawhi shows up, it, it crystalized. Well, I say shows up, but like becomes Kawhi again. It crystallizes who their most important player is so acutely and so devastatingly for James Harden that I just, I don't know why you would vote for James Harden over Kawhi at this point.
- [50:53]
A
Minutes in games, I guess, and 25.6 points a game, which is his highest scoring average since 2020 in Houston. Eight assists, decent shooting. Like he's having a great year. Yeah, he's. I just, I'm with you. Like they. Kawhi is just way better, just a player. Um, I would like here, here's an apology that people may not see coming if I'm going to pick a wolf to apologize to.
- [51:20]
B
Is this, is this Rudy Gobert's cue?
- [51:22]
A
It's Rudy Gobert.
- [51:23]
B
Hell yeah.
- [51:23]
A
I think he's played his way into this conversation. 11 and 11. He always dunks everything. Defensively, he. For the last month, he's been every bit as good as peak Rudy Gobert. Randall has been outstanding pretty much the whole year. Dipped a little bit in the last month before surging again. Now he's at 22, I think seven rebounds, six assists, decent shooting, especially from two. Obviously they're not going to get three All Stars in this field. If you made me split hairs and put. I put neither. But I might put Rudy over Randle at this point.
- [51:59]
B
I mean he might be the front runner for defensive player of the year if Wemby is going to be ineligible. And that that combined with 72% shooting from the field, flashing a little bit of like short role creation for them, like doing some things for their offense and kind of expanding his role that have been really important ultimately. Like you can feel how vital Rudy Gobert is from the fact that it has become just like a full on problem whenever he's not on the floor. And he is so much the load bearing column of that defense that you have to give credit for that, especially if we're going to put Chad on the team. I think Rudy has like a very similar kind of case. Although he's not the scorer Ched is.
- [52:37]
A
By the way, the numbers like the wolves are plus I think 4 per hundred possessions with Anthony Edwards on the floor but they've actually been better with him off the floor and that has nothing to do with Anthony Edwards who is doing everything for them offensively. And holy cow, if you're not up at the level of screen on a pick and roll with Anthony Edwards right now he's like Steph Curry. It's going in. But they've been great with him off the floor because Randall's been really good, Gobert's been really good and even when they sit Randall and Ant together, which I don't like in some games they do, some games they don't, those numbers have been really. I have one more serious apology and then I'm just going to read a bunch of names that are on my spreadsheet because I'm a completist.
- [53:14]
B
Let's do it.
- [53:15]
A
Better numbers than I would have thought in just in terms of traditional stats. Incredible defender, good team, incredible on off numbers no matter how you sort them. Not quite ready for this stratosphere but the numbers were better than I thought. Amen. Thompson is awesome despite his obvious limitations. He's averaging 18 points a game. I did not realize he was scoring. I would have guessed 14 and a half just eyeballing it. He's going to get in this conversation soon enough. And his brother's coming along too.
- [53:48]
B
He's in such a different place too. So many of these stars were penciling and it's like you do this thing every night on such a consistent way that we can build our entire team around it. Amen. Is Kind of the inverse of that, where he has to figure out what to do every single night depending on how he's being guarded and how teams are overloading on KD or Sengun or whoever. And he just has the creativity to do it all the time in so many different ways. Like, there's just. Has there ever been as good of a dunker spot guard in the league in NBA history? Has there ever been like a cutter with his kind of like magnetism for that exact action and moment to play off of, like the tic tac toe lob in the way that he does? He's just such a smart player, honestly.
- [54:27]
A
Do you have any other hurtful apologies, Apologies that hurt your soul a little bit?
- [54:32]
B
I really wanted to try to find room for Stefan Castle for. I mean, I think you kind of made the case in the way that teams are now having to think about how they guard him in new and adventurous ways. To me, he's one of those players when he steps on the floor, you feel his energy and his edge so acutely. And I just like, I can't stop watching him. I can't stop watching the impact that he has on everyone around him, opponents and teammates. I don't think he can quite get there this season, but I would not be surprised at all if he's an all star next year.
- [55:02]
A
Nor would I. De' Aaron Fox is on my long list. It's just tough for him. And he's got a games played issue, too.
- [55:09]
B
Yep.
- [55:09]
A
I'll just read the other names on my spreadsheet that I just put on. Just like I want to be a completist on this. You know, I have 31 Western Conference players on my spread and my. Just in case, let me check their stats.
- [55:20]
B
Sure.
- [55:20]
A
Vorps and Schnorps spreadsheet. Zion Williamson, not apology. I'm just saying names. De' Aaron Fox, Keonte George, Trey Murphy III made the list. J Dub just because he's. J Dub obviously hasn't played enough games. Jada McDaniels. Just give him a little love. Jaren Jackson Jr. Just pedigree. I think he's having a little bit better season than. Than I would have thought. And let's see who else. Shade and Sharp. Just. I just. I like. She's. No, he's one of 31 names. 32 names.
- [56:03]
B
Even 31. I don't know. We need a longer list for Shade and Sharp.
- [56:07]
A
All right, fine. I just have a little sweet spot for Shaden Sharp. That's all. And you know what? Colin Gillespie Yeah. Colin Gillespie made my list of 32 players. How about that? And Dylan Brooks. Dylan Brooks also did.
- [56:20]
B
Sure.
- [56:21]
A
All right, let's take a quick break and we will do. Oh, wait, another name on my list. Rob Mahoney. Because I'm a completist. LeBron James. I just had to play better lately.
- [56:34]
B
Might make it. Might get grandfathered in.
- [56:36]
A
I don't know. We'll see.
- [56:37]
B
That's going to be.
- [56:38]
A
It's going to be a little drama. All right, let's take a quick break, and then we'll do the east, where I got. I got crazy. All right, Eastern Conference All Stars with Rob Mahoney. 12 picks. I have 11American players and one lonely international player on my list.
- [56:56]
B
And you're. You're classifying Cat as an American player, or is he not on your team?
- [57:02]
A
I'm not classifying Cat as anyone.
- [57:03]
B
Ooh. Okay. Okay, let's go.
- [57:05]
A
I told you I got wacky. I got wacky. I'm so. Look, Kat has been awesome. He's averaging 21 points a game. He's not bringing me much on defense.
- [57:14]
B
Sure.
- [57:15]
A
We're on a. Every three weeks. He's going to be like, I'm the one sacrificing. I don't know what to tell you. That's why I had six points. I'm just, you know, I. I went. I was. I rewarded some other guys. Cat's amazing. He's an All Star. He probably should be an All Star. My list is probably dumb. He's not on my list. It's a good thing I don't have a vote.
- [57:30]
B
It's a weird way to find out that you made room for Tyler Kolik, but I look forward to your explanation.
- [57:34]
A
He's in my starting five. Okay. Let's just go through some no brainers, just take them off. No particular order. Giannis, of course. Donovan Mitchell. Tyrese Maxey.
- [57:48]
B
Yep.
- [57:48]
A
Cade Cunningham, of course. Jalen Brown. Jalen Brunson.
- [57:54]
B
Yep.
- [57:55]
A
That's six. Okay, we're up to six now. I'm just gonna go down my list. Then I have, like, I now. I. I did this kind of in order. So we're. We're six for six. Jalen Johnson, definitely seven for seven. Scotty Barnes.
- [58:08]
B
I think he might be a lock. Like, he's been so good defensively that I. Especially given where we're about to go with the rest of the Eastern Conference roster, I think he might have to be put in a pen.
- [58:19]
A
Let's elevate him and Jalen Johnson to eight locks. That's eight locks. I agree with you. He's been, you know, he's at like 19, 6 and 6 and his shooting numbers are actually good. He has been so bought in defensively, it's crazy. Not just defensively, like you want me to set 20 screens tonight and roll hard, like I'll do that. But he's bought in defensively, guarding any position you want. You want to put him on a small point guard for this defensive possession. You want to put him on a center. He's been amazing. It's a travesty how low he is in the all star voting. He should definitely be. If there's one Raptor, it's him over Brandon Ingram. And it's respect to Brandon Ingram. Not close. Now we get a little Interesting. My 9th guy is Norm Powell.
- [59:03]
B
Okay. I do not have a Heat representative.
- [59:06]
A
Wow. Okay, so we'll table that. I told you I'm getting a little wacky. I put Michael Porter Jr. On my team.
- [59:17]
B
I have him on mine too.
- [59:19]
A
Okay, maybe that's not so wacky.
- [59:21]
B
I think he deserves it. I mean he's just become a world class scorer and he's done it not by being like a mid post Carmelo Anthony clone as you might expect. Like a great scorer going to a, like a lottery team might. He's playing off the ball. He's just become like a more fully actualized version of who he was with the Nuggets and that's exciting to be doing all this while being that.
- [59:43]
A
So he was not on my initial list when I did this a month or so ago because I just thought the Nets are so bad. He's been fine, whatever, blah, blah. He's averaging 26 points, seven and a half rebounds, three and a half assists, which is by far career high. 50% shooting, 41% on threes, 58% on twos. Yeah, he's not a great defender, but he's big and he rebounds. He's like, oh. Like I actually think. And Brooklyn is basically net neutral with him on the floor. And they are minus 11 points per 100 possessions when he's not on the floor. And the net neutral part is, is the one that I care more about because like I don't really care that the team is bad without you on the floor. The team is kind of designed to not be good this year there for them to be net neutral with him on the floor is pretty goddamn impressive considering other injuries they've had. I think he, I think he like might be a no brainer all star.
- [60:35]
B
He was one of the easier inclusions for me, I think when we really got to the last spot is where I started having trouble, but I felt pretty good putting him on this team felt comfortable.
- [60:44]
A
So I've named 10 with Norm Powell not being your list. So we have nine in common. So you have three left. Tell me who your remaining three all Stars are.
- [60:52]
B
So I have Kat, I have Jalen Duran, and then the last spot. I mean, I. I did not like making this choice. I don't feel great about this choice. I just threw up my hands and was like, okay, Franz Wagner, come on down. I guess this is who we're going to put on this team. I say, like, I love Franz, but with the. With the season the Magic are having and his availability, I don't. I don't feel. I don't know. I don't. I don't feel clean making that choice.
- [61:21]
A
So this is. These are really interesting picks because there are some names like. Like Paolo Banchero.
- [61:29]
B
Yeah.
- [61:29]
A
You didn't even say his name.
- [61:30]
B
Did not.
- [61:31]
A
And I would agree with you that Franz has been demonstrably better than Banchero. And if I'm going to pick a Magic person, it's going to be him. He's only played 24 games and he's still out. So it's like 24 out of. Let's say, I don't know how many games they played. 30. Let me bring it up. They've played 38 games. It's in 10 days, two weeks, three weeks. Gonna be 24 out of 50. It's just not gonna be enough for me to put him on over some of these other guys who have played more games. But he was. He's been their best player. And Paolo, look, he's. How many big shots has Paul made in the last, like, 10 days, including a buzzer beater last night off the glass to beat the nets? He's just not shooting well enough. His defense has been okay. He looks a little slow to me defensively in space. And if, like, the defining story of your team season is, wait, are we better without Paolo Banchero? Which, to be clear, I don't agree with.
- [62:26]
B
We reject the premise.
- [62:27]
A
But I reject the premise.
- [62:28]
B
It is in the air.
- [62:29]
A
If you can devote serious analysis. How about this? If you can devote serious analysis to. Is the best version of the Orlando Magic in two years, One that has both Franz and Paolo. And that's like an okay topic to discuss. And you're shooting 26% on threes and being just okay on D. I. I'm just gonna, you can just have a vacation this year.
- [62:49]
B
In a similar vein, Zach, do you have Evan Mobley on your team?
- [62:52]
A
No, we didn't even. And like he's the one that actually felt almost worst about. He's averaging 18 points a game, shooting it pretty well. Defensively, he's amazing. 50% shooting allowed at the rim. I just, I'm just, I'm just whelmed. I'm not underwhelmed. I'm not over. I'm just kind of like, okay, maybe, maybe we're punishing him for expectations that were put upon him and that's not fair. But I just haven't been like that.
- [63:19]
B
Impressed, it feels like. And yeah, maybe this feeds into the expectations thing you're talking about. Part of the reason the Cavs season and really the state of their team has gone sideways is he has not taken a step, he has not taken a jump. He is just kind of who he is and that's a really good player. But when that is sort of defining your ceiling as a team, I am a little compelled by that. I do feel like that is part of the formula, if not everything you're waiting on.
- [63:46]
A
Wait, so you had Franz give me the last three again. Franz, Duran and Kat. And Kat. So I didn't have Kat. I explained why Cat's great. Fine. I did have Jalen Duran. I did not feel awesome about it, but I just like, is he a bet? Is Jalen Duran a better all around player than Evan Mobley?
- [64:11]
B
I think this season he has presented that way.
- [64:13]
A
I actually, the fact that it's a conversation and you have to think about it, to me, then put him on the all Star team because he's been more efficient around the basket, probably a little bit better of a passer, just as good as a face up guy. He's kind of caught up to Evan Mobley as a face up guy and he's not as clean defensively, but he's just gigantic. And his chemistry with Kate is real. Like, I, I, I just think he's been really, really good.
- [64:39]
B
He's still critical to one of the best defenses in the league. And you're right, like the ball skill differential between them on the move making decisions, it is kind of stark. And I say that as someone who really appreciates Evan Mobley. But I like Duran for that spot. I like, honestly, I felt pretty good about him like that. That felt a little more solid to me. Franz was the one where it was a little bit more of a gut test in the way, you know, as you're making the parallel of like who is the better player. Franz is just a better player than Norm Powell and Franz is a better player than who Bam has been this season. Like the especially what you're getting from offense on offense from Bam this season, Franz is better than that guy.
- [65:15]
A
Franz is better than Norm Powell. I have Norm Powell on because this is the best season of his career. 24 points a game. 49%, 42% on threes for a Heat offense that really needs everything he provides and he really kind of is one of the defining features of how they play their wacky no pick and roll north south style. I just with Hero being injured for almost the entire year and Bam having a down offensive season and Wiggins kind of having it down couple of months after a hot start, I just don't know where they'd be without Norm Powell. Certainly they wouldn't be where they are. So I had him on. And to your point about shrugging your shoulders and not feeling great.
- [65:58]
B
Oh boy.
- [65:59]
A
About putting Franz on and I would have felt if Franz had played 35 games, I would have felt great about putting Franz on. I felt that way too about this spot. Evan Mobley. I just didn't feel good in my stomach even. Kat like again, it's just like. It's a little maddening. The cat experience. Can we agree on that? It's a little maddening sometimes.
- [66:20]
B
Look, he doesn't give what you want, but enough of what you need.
- [66:25]
A
Okay, look, this is going to be. And Mobley. Same Just left me a little cold. Darius Garland hadn't played enough games. Paolo, lift me a little cold. Little cold. So I kind of. I kind of put this as a career and team achievement all star spot for my 12th spot. Huh. He's not shooting well by his standards, but he might be the best defensive guard in the entire NBA and his team is always massively awesome when he's on the floor. I'm putting Derek White on the all star team. 19 points a game. I don't want you to look at the shooting numbers because they're not great. But he shoots a shit ton of threes which they need. He's never makes mistakes. He is the best. Is he the best defensive guard in the NBA? It depends how you classify him for sure. I guess a block and a half and a steal and a half a game. He's an ironman and the Celtics are like + 13 per hundred possessions when he's on the floor. Derrick White, you make my all star team. You think it's Ridiculous. I'm being ridiculous. I just like, who would you rather have this year? Who's been better, Derek White or Evan Mobley?
- [67:33]
B
Look, it's a. It's a beautiful and insane pick, but the answer, I think, is Evan Mobley. Still, even with all of the expectations and the weight of all that, like, Derek White's awesome, but he's not an All Star. At least I don't think he's an all Star.
- [67:46]
A
Well, you know what? Who of these people are all Stars?
- [67:51]
B
I mean, once you're getting down to this phase of the list. Yes, you are choosing between members of the Heat, Evan Mobley, maybe just general.
- [68:01]
A
Members, members of the Heat.
- [68:03]
B
It could be anybody. Davion Mitchell, congratulations, you're an Eastern Conference all Star. Like, you do feel the disparity from the conferences pretty acutely. Like, on the other end of the spectrum, I'm like hand wringing my hands to see if there's room for the second best player on the definitive best team in basketball. And over here I'm like, I guess.
- [68:20]
A
Franz Wagner and I guess Derek White. I'm rewarding. I'm rewarding defense, versatility, winning plays, character, and the fact that the Celtics have the best net rating in the Eastern Conference, that's what I'm rewarding. Guys like Derrick White should get a little shine. I don't really feel strongly about this, but I just decided to have a little fun. And they're always. He's one of like those players like we. I was talking about this with someone from the Magic last week in Toronto. Like I always call Suggs the skeleton key of their team. These two way guards who can work on the ball, off the ball, play big, play small, play fast, play above their size. On defense, they just are like the Keystones. Like Derrick White is that for the Celtics. I actually think Bam is kind of the big man version of that. Like, even when his stats are down and Derek White's shooting is a little down, Bam stats are way down. You just feel like everything he's doing, every moment on the court is geared toward helping my team win. And so like, even in a year like this, if you told me Bam belongs on the all star team, I'd be like, I. I mean, I can't put him and Norm, I don't think. But if you, if you flip up him in, like, he's having a below average offensive year, but he's just this electrical current that's powering your winning. Everything you do about winning. And that's how I feel about Derek.
- [69:37]
B
White and Bam too. He is the best part of the best part of their team. Right. Like the Heat are still a team that win defense first and he is the fundamental reason for that. I do agree with you. I probably if I was going to pick would pick Norm because even though all of that stuff is true about Bam in a way so much hanging on Norm's ability to be just like a lights out ISO scorer like that is that's such a hard skill to deliver on and he's been so good at hit at it that I would lean in his direction. But Bam's case like the offense is down but the defense is still great and that that alone should get him into this conversation.
- [70:13]
A
Unyielding against any kind of matchup.
- [70:15]
B
Yep.
- [70:16]
A
Whether it's Jokic or you got to switch everything and guard everybody on the floor. Unyielding. But my last defense of the Derrick White case and Derek White you better do they play tonight? When is it? They played last night so probably not. Derek White's going to go for like 40 in the next game. That's what's going to happen. I'm speaking this I'm like perk. I'm sending a message to Derrick White. I'm sending then I'm going to take credit for it afterwards. Derrick White step up score 40.
- [70:41]
B
But your case for Derek White isn't even 40. It's that he's going to be have like a plus 24 with 13 screen assists in that game. You know he's going to Spain to his heart's delight.
- [70:50]
A
Screen assists are not allowed to be mentioned on the Zach Lowe Show. Formerly known as Rudy Go.
- [70:55]
B
We got through the whole Rudy Gobert segment without even talking about it.
- [70:57]
A
Yeah. Thankfully the that's it is interesting. The Wolves as an organization decided we're not going to do this thing that the Jazz did where we're going to have our announcers, we're going to mandate that they say screen assist 40 times a game. How about we just don't do it? And guess what? Still good. Everyone still appreciates Rudy Gobert. We get it. Sets a lot of picks and rolls to the rim. Good times. I will say this about Derek White year after year after year after the best advanced stats, the best catch. All advanced stats have him as like one of the 10 best players in the league. Now I don't think he's one of the 10 best players in the league because of his limitations as like number one offensive creator, but those stats are capturing something. They're capturing something about his game that is massively powerful.
- [71:45]
B
I want to. Along those lines, I want to tip my cap to Kyle Mann, who as far as I know, pioneered the take. Is Derek White better than Trae Young? Derek White's not getting traded for C.J. mcCollum and Corey Kispert. You know, like that is not happening.
- [71:58]
A
Yeah, Kyle, man, I love that.
- [72:00]
B
Okay, great take. Five years in the past has been writing it out first to plant his flag on the Derrick White is better than Trey Young. Whatever island archipelago, whatever that is.
- [72:09]
A
No, man, we're like a. We're.
- [72:11]
B
I don't.
- [72:11]
A
I don't. I don't know if he's better than Trey Young.
- [72:13]
B
Like a continent at this point.
- [72:17]
A
Can you. Why is the CAT experience so maddening? Like when you watch the Knicks who beat the Clippers last night to end a four game losing stre had their fan base panicked and in the last game, who. Who is it against where he had six points and it was. It was a disaster performance. Oh, Pistons. They got blown out by the Pistons on the Pistons were on it back to back. What's happening with cat? Why is the scoring down? What's going on?
- [72:44]
B
I wish I had a cogent explanation for why the scoring would be down other than they do feel like as a team they've kind of rocked off their axis over the last couple weeks. The balance of their offense, the flow of their offense feels a little bit off in a way I can't qu put my finger on. He always is that kind of player though. Like if some, if a little something is wrong with your team, he will be the one who kind of like flies out of balance as a result. And you, you can hold that against him like he is not a stabilizer. That's not who he is. But he's also the kind of guy who for all of his faults, like I think his energy is uniformly quite good and he does crash. He does attack like he's trying to do things sometimes. The problem is in the trying. To be honest, I don't think he's.
- [73:25]
A
Ever played with more physicality than this year. Particularly on off. He's playing with so much physicality that everyone. It's like bowling like four people are falling over on his drives. Yeah, I mean his scoring's down to 21 and a half a game. That's actually not out of line with his last couple years in Minnesota, which were injury riddled in a couple in one case at least.
- [73:48]
B
Also, there might be a Derrick Whiteish case for OG Anunoby as A weird fringe All Star too. I just. I love what OG does for their team.
- [73:55]
A
It's a great point. He was on my long list. He was closer to my short list a month ago. His shooting has dipped a little bit, but. And he doesn't quite do as much ball handling and facilitating as Derrick White does. But I think part of what's happened to Kat is that OG is getting more touches. Mikhail Bridges is getting more touches. All that stuff is by design. I also think part of it is. I'm interested to see what you think about this. Take the Brunson Towns pick and roll. Massively powerful, right? Like elite scoring guard, elite pick and pop. Big man who mixes in rolls to the rim. I think an appropriate level.
- [74:28]
B
Yeah.
- [74:29]
A
It's less of a weapon when Robinson is on the floor too because Robinson becomes the screen setter. And Cat can sometimes get lost offensively in those alignments. Although obviously Cat floor spacer is awesome. I think like Brunson is an incredible player. I'd probably have him as a starter on the All Star team. He's not like a great pick and roll playmaker in the style of guards. That would get Cat a ton of open looks. And part of it is he's just small. He can't see over the defense the way a Luka kind of player can. I watch. And their two man game is still crazy powerful. Really good because it demands extra attention be shifted to Cat. And Brunson is smart about if he doesn't pass to Cat, he'll pass to the other open guy on the wing who's a release valve and the thing will trickle down from there. I do feel like part of it is that he's just not the kind of playmaker who's engineered to get Towns a bunch of even easy threes. Like what do you think of that take? Am I crazy?
- [75:27]
B
No, you're not crazy. I think a lot of that comes down to Brunson. Even though he is a good passer and clearly a good creator, he's more of a whole.
- [75:34]
A
Yeah, let me be clear.
- [75:35]
B
He's.
- [75:36]
A
He's averaging six this game. He's an all NBA, all world player and a good passer. I just think not. Anyway.
- [75:42]
B
Yeah, but he leans a little more toward holding the ball a beat, right? He is like he's trying to survey. And you're right that he's smaller. And particularly with those bigger lineups, what you need is the immediate pocket pass, right? Like if Cat is rolling and you saw the sim in Minnesota when he would play with Rudy Gobert too, where like Cat will hit that short roll catch into the lob for the big. That almost never happens with Mitchell Robinson. And some of that is Rudy Gobert and Mitchell Robinson are different as finishers. But I think a lot of that too is just the cadence of Jalen Brunson's game where he's so start and stop, he's so stuttering through these possessions and like trying to figure out his angle that he's not the quick pass guard type. He can. He's still wildly effective, incredibly productive as a score. The pick and pop stuff is I think, a little cleaner in that way than pick and roll stuff, but I think that's why the roles just don't have the same flow to them, especially with that big lineup.
- [76:32]
A
Can we just bounce around some All Star related news items here, please? Or do you. Do you have any apologies that you want to issue before we do that?
- [76:40]
B
I mean, the east is a little tougher for apologies, I guess. I think we've hit the big ones. Mobley. Boy, was I tempted by Con Canipple.
- [76:47]
A
He's on my list. What did I say? I had 32 west players. I have 24 east players.
- [76:52]
B
That feels right. I mean he's a ridiculous shooter and not like for a rookie. But there's Steph Curry in, in the A tier, I guess the S tier of shooters. Khan is right there on the next level. Unbelievable. On the ball, off the ball. As a creator. I. I've been blown away by his season and I wish there was room for him, but there's nothing.
- [77:11]
A
The only other names on my long spreadsheet list that we did not mention at all because we mentioned Anunobi and Bam who are here and we mentioned Ingram even are Bane. Just because you're averaging 20 points a game. I'll give you a look. I'll type in your advanced stats and see how they sort out Josh Giddey. And that's it. I mentioned Siakam too.
- [77:33]
B
Yeah, I think it's not Siakam's fault that the Pacers are terrible.
- [77:37]
A
But.
- [77:37]
B
But he also hasn't exactly like pulled them up to anything at all. So you would have to make a hell of a case to be on. What are they? 6 and 36 and 31. 6 and 21. Whatever the record.
- [77:49]
A
Too many losses.
- [77:50]
B
13 straight losses. Like you got to really be doing something to make an All Star team under those circumstances.
- [77:56]
A
Okay, let's bounce around a couple of quick topics. How have you felt about knowing that it is because of potential games missed to Jokic and other players. How have you felt about Jalen Brown's entrance into the MVP conversation?
- [78:12]
B
I'm not shocked by it. I think both because his play merits it and also because when something good happens with the Celtics, everyone will tell you about it, especially at this company.
- [78:21]
A
Oh yeah, that's true. I swear to God I picked Derek white as my 12 ball star all by myself. I didn't have any help on my.
- [78:29]
B
Say so you say. But we're, I mean he's, he's been incredible. He's been one of the best two way players in the league and if that's not worthy of MVP consideration, I don't really know what we're doing.
- [78:40]
A
I just think they're incredible. Their season has been incredible and he's just for all the attention he's gotten on the evolution of his handle and all the sort of subtleties he's added, which is true. He's also just making simple plays when he gets into the foul line area or 13ft from the basket and they help. He's just like kick it to Pritchard over here and trust the machine to do its work instead of forcing it through traffic and risking turnovers. Which the Celtics are the best in the league at avoiding turnovers. And that's why. And the other thing I will say I looked this I was watching their game against Denver last night. I've watched them a bunch recently. Everyone knows they shoot a ton of threes. That's Missoula ball. They also, I believe they're second in the league in long twos. Like they're taking a lot of mid range shots. They don't get to the rim at all. And in a weird way I think that's also kind of fueling their lack of turnovers. Like they get into that space and they just wriggle around and shoot. Mid Rangers, they have great mid range shot makers. But it surprised me. I'm just going to verify this as we're talking about it surprised me how high they ranked in mid range shots and I think that's partly by design.
- [79:48]
B
When a lot Jalen Brown, who's just been an absolute killer inside the arc in basically every way and if you're going to have this interesting offensive model and I think the Celtics are that they shoot a ton of threes, they get offensive rebounds. The Hornets are kind of a version of that too in a weird way with their offense. But what you need is that mid range counterpunch, that guy who's getting off the Dribble off the bounce who is wiggly in the way you described and kind of so hard to pin down. Jaylen Brown is so physical. And when you have a player who is that with this handle who can rise and fire from mid range, I don't know, those guys tend to look a lot like Kevin Durant or Kawhi Leonard. And Jalen Brown has like played himself into that sort of category this season.
- [80:27]
A
Question? No question. And I'm looking at the tracking data now. He's never run before this season. His career high pick and rolls per 100 possessions is 19 per hundred possessions. And Boston has been a pretty democratic offense with as much as it feels like. Tatum was everything like in terms of pick and roll usage and pretty well spread out. He's up to 26.7 this season and his efficiency is absolutely through the roof out of the pick and roll, both when he shoots and when the guy one pass away, whoever it is shoots, he's just been phenomenal. I mean he's clearly more of like a ballot guy than actual MVP of the league. But you know, like if everyone missed, if Shea and Wemby and, and Jokic and Giannis all missed too many games, sure, he steps, he steps into steps into the spotlight. He's been, he's been that good and defensively he's been awesome on all. Like he guarded Jamal Murray a little bit last night and then they handed that assignment to Derrick White. He's just been awesome.
- [81:27]
B
I mean, he has been awesome. It would be an objectively funny outcome if he is like the designated survivor of the 65 game rule in that like he's like the Secretary of Education becoming president all of a sudden.
- [81:40]
A
Bill would lose his mind. I like that. The designated MVP survivor. Okay. Did you see the Giannis interview with Sam Amick from last night?
- [81:52]
B
I sure did. Giannis just works here.
- [81:54]
A
He said I will quote, never request a trade. Which fine, like. And my initial reaction to that was if you never request a trade, you're never going to get traded. You know that, right?
- [82:08]
B
I think the Bucks have basically said that. But.
- [82:12]
A
Not signing an extension is not the same thing as not request as requesting a trade. So this summer they put the extension in front of him. If he doesn't sign it, that's not requesting a trade. It's just declining to sign a long term contract. I will say that's the headline. But as you said beneath that were, well, I can't control what my agent is saying. And as of today was used frequently when Sam Rightfully pressed him on like, wait, are you saying you want to be with the Bucks past the trade deadline in perpetuity, whatever. As of today, it's like, as of today, I love my wife. Who knows what happens tomorrow? Like, literally, he said this, so there's like, like caveats sprinkled in. So to me, it's just a whole lot of like. I mean, I get it. It's a hard needle to thread. I get that he's tired of being asked about it. It's almost unfair to keep asking him about it. I will say you, you, you can control what your agent says to at least some degree. You can go to your agent and be like, never bring this up with anybody. And if I hear about it, I'm going to get a new agent. Like, he's not a complete just puppet of whatever is going on around him, helpless to do. But the headline is going to be, giannis stays for the Bucks forever. And that's really not what the story says.
- [83:28]
B
No. He gets so close to it, too, because he talks about, I basically have my personal business and all these people who work for me, and I am the boss. And then out of the other side of his mouth, he's saying, but my agent is talking to all these people potentially behind my back. And I don't know if your agent is going to the Knicks and saying, Giannis Antetokounmpo is interested in becoming a Nick, that guy works for you. He is under your business umbrella in the same way that the person who manages your money or your venture capital investments is. I don't think you get to say, I'm not a part of this. I am powerless to the whims of the universe. You're not Jericho Sims. You are Giannis Antetokounmpo. And what you say carries weight, including with the people who actually do work for you or work off of your commission. If you're going to bust out the org chart, like, that's how it susses out.
- [84:15]
A
We'll see what happens. I. I think it's a summer thing. I've always thought it was a summer thing, barring a complete collapse of the Bucks.
- [84:22]
B
And I will say, like, we're all caught up in the trade stuff, understandably. And Giannis is, too. He's being asked about it quietly, under the radar, just having maybe the most dominant season of his career, like, absolutely unstoppable crazy.
- [84:37]
A
Again, there. There is a legit. You can find people who will make the argument that a team like the spurs is being too Precious with, you know, one of their young guards. Like, this guy is so dominant, you could win. It's. It's not an unreasonable argument. I would err on the side of caution. I always do, but that's just me.
- [84:50]
B
I mean, I saw when. When he's on the floor, the Bucks are better offensively than the best offense in the league. Like, that's just who Giannis is.
- [84:57]
A
And so even, Even last night, they lose to the warriors by seven, and they're plus 10 with Giannis on the floor and whatever. It's every game, they just are completely dead without him. But, but, but elite with him. Not, like, treading water with him. Elite with him. D James Dolan did his annual I don't know why you're doing this interview. Ian Begley transcribed it on sny. It was with Craig Carton, who's back at the Fan. We want to get to the finals and we should win the finals. Dolan told Craig Harden. You know, you could have stopped at the first part. We should win the finals. Aggressive. Nothing else really notable in the interview. He talked about Tibbs and Tibbs, lack of collaboration and blah, blah. Yeah, we should win the finals. I don't think got enough attention. I was like, oh, oh, oh. All right.
- [85:46]
B
Just quite a statement. Do you think. Does. Does a Jim Dolan interview go on a bulletin board somewhere? You know, like, does the Detroit Pistons locker room care about this?
- [85:55]
A
Does Satan have a bulletin board in. In. In. Hell, no. I don't think anyone. I don't think they care. I don't think anyone cares.
- [86:02]
B
The tough moment for me was in the middle of this interview, Jim Dolan talks about his philosophy about tibs and player development and how you need, like, it's essential to win in the modern NBA and, like, you have to have these young players coming up the pipe because of the financial restrictions. I'm like, why does this make sense to me? Why do I agree with James Dolan about literally anything? And why is it this?
- [86:23]
A
He probably has been well coached on what to say and what not to say. Any other news and notes? Any other Eastern All Star stuff we didn't get to. I think Tyler heroes. Tyler heroes back.
- [86:33]
B
He is back. That's fine.
- [86:36]
A
I'm just curious to see, like, bam. Where? Or do you start small with Mitchell hero? Norm Wiggins. Bam. That's interesting. What else? What? Do you want to bring something else up?
- [86:45]
B
Oh, no, I think we've hit, like, all the salient points. I'm trying to think of. Anybody else is, like, really grabbing Me.
- [86:50]
A
Lately, Max Druce is hurt for longer than expected. It's kind of a big deal. I. I hinted at that earlier in the week. No, it's gonna be. It's gonna be. We're less than one month from the trade deadline, so buckle up. There's always unexpected stuff that happens. Always, always, always. Rob mahoney group chat ringer.com. what do we got? What else we got?
- [87:10]
B
Coming up, stuff on the Prestige TV podcast I might even like with prestiging.
- [87:15]
A
What are we potting about right now?
- [87:16]
B
I mean, it's all the Pit all the time. You know, I'm scrubbing up, I'm getting in there. I'm doing open heart surgery. Somebody's got to do it, and Noah Wiley can't be the only one.
- [87:24]
A
Medical dramas just aren't for me. I just.
- [87:27]
B
So what is. What's your objection? Like, where are you? What are you bumping against?
- [87:32]
A
It's just a lot of mortality. I. It's. I. I don't. And just right in my face. Blood and guts. And I just. I'd rather not think about any of that stuff.
- [87:41]
B
But isn't that what we're doing in the NBA, too? Every time somebody is like, lebron James is as old as Father Time. Look at this man. Defying the odds and staving off death at every turn. Isn't that what we do in the NBA, too?
- [87:53]
A
Has the pit addressed sciatica? Extreme sciatica? Has anyone come? Is it in the er? I don't know what the Pit is. Is it an emergency room? What is it?
- [88:00]
B
It is hour by hour in a 15 hour ER shift. So I'm assuming that'll be like hour six. Somebody's gonna roll in with sciatica and. And really need a good stretch out, if nothing else.
- [88:10]
A
Yeah, I'm not gonna watch that.
- [88:12]
B
You're missing.
- [88:13]
A
When does severance come back? 20, 29? What are we talking about?
- [88:16]
B
I mean, that depends on when the Knicks won the title. You know, if they win. And Ben's going to have a lot to do, you know, it could stave off another two years because of that.
- [88:24]
A
All right, Prestige tv. When you do a show I watch, I really like it because I learn a lot, and my hot takes are so dumb. But you're going to have to have me on because I got, as you saw, I have a lot of takes to unleash to the world.
- [88:34]
B
Literally, anytime. Bottle them up, we're going to have.
- [88:36]
A
You on Rob Mahoney. Thank you, sir.
- [88:38]
B
Thanks, Zach. Appreciate it.
- [88:41]
A
All right, that's it for the Zach Lowe Show. We will be back next week with a new episode. Thank you to Rob Mahoney for all his time and intellect. Thank you to Mike, Billy and Jonathan on production. Thank you to all of you for listening to and or watching the Zach Lowe Show. We'll see you soon. Must be 21 or over in President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpgt.org chat in Connecticut or visit MD gambling help.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gambling helpline ma.org or call 800-327-5050 for 247 support in Massachusetts or call 1-87-7-8, HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York.