← The Zach Lowe Show
The Zach Lowe Show
The Latest on LeBron and the Lakers With Dan Woike. Plus, a Look Around the NBA With Nekias Duncan.
01:40:58
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- [00:00]
A
This episode is brought to you by SAP. You know that feeling when running a business gets too demanding, the pressure can be overwhelming, like when you're headed to the line with seconds left and these free throws could win the game or lose it. Well, time to stop worrying. With the AI powered capabilities of SAP, you can streamline costs, connect with new suppliers, and manage payroll even when your business is being pulled in different directions to deliver a quality product at a fair price while paying your people what they're worth too, so your business can stay unfazed. Learn more@SAP.com Uncertainty all right, coming up on a loaded Zach Lowe show today, we got Dan Woicke from the Athletic to talk about LeBron sciatica and what it means, if anything, for the Lakers in the short term, in the medium term and the long term. Can this team do any real damage? Can they challenge Oklahoma City and Denver? Is there any roadmap there at all? And how much does LeBron missing? 8, 10, 12, whatever it is, games with sciatica, sciatica of all things, how much does that mess up their season? Does it mess up their rhythm, their chemistry between Luka and LeBron and Reeves, am I worried about that at all? What about their defense? What about dominate? And we're going to get into all that. And then Nikaius Duncan from the Dunker Spot podcast at Yahoo. With Steve Jones comes on to preview just a bunch of random teams. Nikais is the perfect guy to preview a bunch of random teams. The Pelicans, the Bulls, the Hornets. Who else we get into the Bucks, Alex Atentokounmpo. Oh boy. How many Atantokounmpos are there left to sign? And we get into the. Did I say the Bulls? The Bulls are in there for sure. There's another team that I'm forgetting. We're going to get into some random teams and we're going to pick an award 6 Man of the Year. That's a fun one to pick. That's all coming up after this on the Zach Low Show. You're listening to the Zach Low show presented by FanDuel. The the SMBA season. Put the power of the sportsbook in your hands with fanduels. Your way you, way lets you create bets you can't find anywhere else. You can set your own lines or customize player props and you'll get new odds instantly. Plus, with your way, you can even make head to head bets by position or player. Just download the Phantom Sportsbook app to play your way. Must be 21 over in President select states and 18 or over in D.C. kentucky and Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com, call 1-887-89-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincenecticut. Welcome to the Zach Lowe show, live from an undisclosed hotel in beautiful Los Angeles, California. Had a great dinner last night in Little Tokyo. Dan Woicke, LA veteran. How are you, sir?
- [02:42]
B
I'm great. I enjoy that you're wearing a Disney shirt while you're in Southern California.
- [02:46]
A
And they did employ me for quite a long time. And you better fucking believe. Damn woiky. Before I ran my time there ran out, did I hit Disney World again and take advantage of the company perks? You're damn right I did, baby.
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B
Did I win the.
- [02:59]
A
Did I win the Toy Story ride shooting competition? There's a target shooting competition? Toy Story ride. Did I talk trash to my daughter and whip her ass in it? You better fucking believe I did. I'm ready today, Dan.
- [03:11]
B
Did I take my children to Disneyland before the season and watch YouTube videos on how to score the best in the Buzz Lightyear Astro Blasters?
- [03:20]
A
Fuck yeah, I did. I can't believe you know the name of the ride. That's amazing. All right, so, Dan, let me tell you what happened on. On Friday in my life, okay? Annual fifth grade event. Fifth grade is the top of the elementary school in Connecticut annual competition. Fifth graders versus fifth grade. Parents capture the flag. A variant of capture the fright that I won't explain. As you can imagine, my number one goal was I just. First, I do want to win because the kids were talking a lot of junk. Second, I don't want me or anybody else to get injured because we're old.
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B
Correct.
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A
And you're sprinting, you're changing directions. It's just ripe for an Achilles snap. And we all talk about like, we're gonna go easy. We're not gonna get injured. We're just gonna just. We're gonna win, but we're not gonna go crazy. I'm 10 seconds into the whistleblowing and it was my daughter's class versus the class parents. Ten seconds in, my daughter's chasing me to try to rip my flag off. My.
- [04:20]
C
Her.
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A
Her best friend's dad is coming toward me with someone chasing him. We're gonna miss each other by 10ft. But suddenly we cut. And we cut to each of our respective lefts. Head on, full speed collision. I shoulder checked him really hard. We both go down. He's flat on his back. When knocked out of him. It was such a big hit that the reaction from the fans, the rest of the parents waiting to play their classes was not laughter. It was like, oh, and so this is my transition to. The big news of the week was LeBron James has sciatica, apparently, because this is what happens to people in their 40s. They just get injured and, like, random stuff happens to them. So, Dan Woikie, first of all, we did win. Second of all, I'm fine. I think the other dad is largely.
- [05:08]
B
I was going to say, how's the other guy? How is he out of the hospital? Zach?
- [05:12]
A
He didn't go to the hospital. He stayed down a little longer than I did. Did. I did. I think was my first thought, I need to get up and continue to try to win the game versus I need to help my friend up. Yeah, it was. I was in competition boat. But then I paused and I reached my hand out, he was okay. And now LeBron has sciatica. So, yeah, he's going to be reevaluated in three to four weeks, I believe as of last Friday. Let's just posit four weeks. That's eight to 10 games. Maybe it ends up being longer than that. The Lakers odds to win the west have not really moved. They're still plus 950, the third best odds to win the West. It does threaten his all NBA streak because you don't have a lot of margin after that for another injury. If that's a side plot that people care about. I think what people mostly care about is in a conference where you do not have much margin for error. How do the Lakers adjust from this? Who starts in LeBron's spot? And is there really any reason to worry here, considering this is kind of why you got Luke. I mean, you got Luka Doncic because he was gifted to you in a gift basket. But this is like, one of the reasons you got him is to just be like, all right, Luca Ball, it's time to play Luca Ball. The team was really good last year when Doncic and Reeves were on the floor. LeBron was off the floor. There's a world where their defense might be maybe a tick better to start the season. Are you. Is there any worry at all about this? And how are they going to adjust? Like, the rotation? What does that look like?
- [06:36]
B
Yeah, I mean, I think there's, like, I would say mild concern. I don't think, like, no one's freaking out, right? Like, he hasn't been shut down for basketball activities. This isn't like a We're starting from square one. You know, I think that the way it's been kind of, you know, positive to me behind the scenes, Zach, was that like, there was going to be an adjustment this year. LeBron James has been injured at the end of the last, I think three of the last four seasons or two of the last three seasons.
- [07:05]
A
He's 40 going on 41. 40 should be, as I keep saying.
- [07:09]
B
Yeah.
- [07:10]
A
Whenever people are like, if they're healthy at the end of the year, if LeBron's not banged up, I'm like, your expectation should be LeBron's going to be banged up.
- [07:17]
B
So I think there was a shift in training philosophies this summer in terms of, like, how do we. How do we try to extend this out as best as possible? Right? And what that probably means is a little bit of a slower ramp up all along, right? Like that that was always going to be a little bit a part of the plan, I don't think. You know, getting hurt and feeling this. This nerve thing, you know, a month ago and then that keeping you out of live play.
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A
You mean it's not a fake injury, that he's rebelling against the team and pouting?
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B
I don't believe so.
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A
Neither do.
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B
I don't believe so. But I think, like, I think that's not ideal.
- [07:57]
C
Right.
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B
Like, I do think that this was a team that despite, like, wanting to, like, take it easy with LeBron and things like that, like, they wanted to be on the court together. I mean, Luca has said this repeatedly, that, you know, one of the things he was most excited about coming into camp, coming into shape was like, to get an on court time with LeBron James, Nasser Reeves, and like, really try to. To figure this out in ways where, you know, last year it was kind of thrown together. Is there some, you know, three basketball genius, sort of like melding of the minds where they could figure out a way to maximize each other's skills, even when they're duplicative in some ways. And I think, like, that was supposed to happen now. Does that. Does it happening in mid November really change the trajectory of the team? Maybe a little. I'm just, I think. I think you hit on that. The shift to Luka Doncic happened the second they acquired him. This in my mind, like, only even cements it a little bit. It just speeds it up a little bit. Like, there is no, like, this is Luka Donch's team. They will be as good as he is until LeBron James gets back. And if Luke is Really good. That is a. He's one of the best floor raisers in the NBA.
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C
Right?
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B
Like, your floor is pretty high if you have Luka Dodge on your team.
- [09:19]
A
I would agree with a decent amount of shooting around him. A big man. What are the. Earlier I was gonna say a big man. Roller, who I have been on record repeatedly as saying, I think the Ayton thing is gonna work in Los Angeles now work again. I keep saying this like, it's not gonna be dominating. It's not gonna be like, I'm a max contract guy. I'm an all star. That's who I am.
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C
It's.
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A
I think it's just gonna be like 16 and 8, solid defense. How has he looked so far? What are the early reviews? I know he says all the right things, like, I'm just here to win. I don't care about my numbers. I'm glad to be playing on important games again. No shade at Portland, blah, blah, blah. But like, he always says the right things publicly. I don't really care what he says publicly. What are the reviews internally?
- [09:58]
B
So I think bad. I don't want to say a bad first week. A little bit of a rocky first week. Did not play well in their opener. I, I think he's. He settled in a little here. He played pretty well, relatively speaking, on Sunday against Golden State. But I think. Here's the thing, Zach, with, with where the Lakers are right now, and this is like a frustration, I think I have. It's a frustration that fans have. It's just the reality situation. We have. We have not seen this basketball team in, in any, like, close version of it. We have not watched Luca Donches play in the preseason. We have. LeBron James is hurt. We've seen Austin Reeves play with like, Marcus Smart has not played yet. We've seen Austin Reeves play with, like, the other guys twice. Right? And so, you know, and it's not like we're sitting in there watching scrimmages or any of that stuff. We don't get to see that stuff. And so when I talk to people, kind of, they've. They've had, you know, a hard training camp. They've run a lot. Championship shape is a thing you'll hear a lot. You've heard J.J. redick say it. He said at the end of last season, it's on the boards, inside the building. They're running. They had dead legs in the first week. They had four days off and, you know, played again yesterday. That for some reason they're playing four games this Week in the, in the preseason, which is its own sort of thing. I guess we're going to see this team probably twice. We'll see Luka and these guys twice. And we'll get to see the early stages of, you know, where's this pick and roll chemistry with the under eight? Because I think that's big part of it. The things that I've noticed if I was going to be encouraged, I think, you know, his shop blocking and his size is a real thing. He's not always in the right spot, but he's really 7ft tall. He's long arms, big hands and knocks the ball away a bunch. I think Jackson Hayes has been like pretty good in verticality defensively. So you have like two kind of versions of rim protection and those guys, which is a step, a step forwards from where they were last season. I, you know, he's tremendously skilled. Deandre Ayton, you know, I don't know like how many possessions are drawn up for him to like hit the short pocket and shoot 16 footers. He's going to do it. Oh yeah.
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A
Oh yeah, he's going to do it.
- [12:14]
B
He's going to do it.
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A
You better believe he's going to do it.
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B
Yeah, yeah.
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A
And he's, you know, which I don't, I honestly don't mind. He's a very good, if you look at his splits, like short mid, like the range from like 13 to 17ft, he's quite a good shooter. He's like a 50% level shooter. Anything beyond that I'm not super interested in. I'm not interested in that shot specifically being more than a few times a game because he's also a decent passer, Just decent. He needs to improve as a passer. He needs to increase the speed in which he makes reads. But that's a profitable place for him to get the ball in a 4 on 3 situation for the Lakers. It has to be, or else the construction of the team kind of falls apart.
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B
I think Lakers fans are like sort of getting used to his energy, right? Because like you see him in interviews and stuff like that and like, you know, he, he just like says some wild stuff, like it just kind of happens. And like, you know, like he had said something like last week about like not playing with Luca and LeBron, right? And like people freaked out like, oh my God, he hasn't played with Luca and LeBron. It's like, no, he's played with Luca, he just hasn't played with Luca and LeBron. Like what he said was Accurate. The way it was kind of aggregated and pulled out wasn't totally accurate. So, like, there was this notion that this team is crazy far behind that, like these guys haven't met each other or anything like that. And that. And that's not. That's not necessarily the case. They are behind because they have not had LeBron James on the court. When you don't have one of your two best players available, particularly like the guy that you really want to figure out the ways. Margins. But, like, I think LeBron is going to make it easy on everybody else to play with him in that way. Right? Like, this is. This is one of his superpowers. Like, he knows how to play the game of basketball. God, I can't believe you made me say the game of basketball. That's how, you know, I've been around LeBron a lot. Is like the. But I think he'll be fine on that front. I. I think to me, like, you, you. You kind of hinted at it or early season, like the big, the big question with this team when you talk to people is like, where are they at point of attack defensively, Right? Like, that's the biggest question. And it's would seem to me like if you just slot Jared Vanderbilt in for 10 to 12 games, like, he's looked really good athletically. He had his first healthy offseason basically since he's been a Laker. And I'm not ready to like, say, like, the shot is totally rebuilt. I won't say it. It's not. I think he needs to shoot it confidently and be willing to go over three.
- [14:41]
A
I like that. We just got, we just got right inside your mental process. Like, I'm not ready to say it. You know what? I'm not gonna say.
- [14:46]
B
You just. I'm not gonna say it.
- [14:48]
A
Your brain was like, nope, don't talk about the jump shot. It's not gonna happen.
- [14:51]
B
No, no. I mean, but it's like. But, but the point is, is like, like all of this stuff, right? Like, rebuild it now, whatever. It's like you just have to shoot it. If you're going to shoot it once, you have to shoot it three times. Him and I have spoken about this. Like, actually, like, if you're going to play with these guys and you're going to be a credible, semi credible, like, stand on the outside, catch it and shoot it. Like, you got to be willing to shoot it. And giving him.
- [15:10]
A
You're giving him some coaching.
- [15:13]
B
He. This was his posit to me. This is what he said to Me, we were talking about sweaters. We ended up talking about three pointers. Zach. This is how the job goes. And he was just like, no, like, if I'm going to, like, if I'm going to be like a, to be a 33% three point shooter, like, I'm not going to go 0 for 1 over 1, 1 for 1. Like, that's not. I won't be any good. The rhythm, I'll never get better if I shoot it at that low a volume. So I need to shoot it. If I'm open and I have to keep shooting it, it. That's not why he's going to be on the court. He's going to be on the court because of his energy. I think he's shown a little more bounce to the basket. You know, he's had some really good finishes. He's. He's throwing a couple really good look at passes. Like, there is like, I've always felt like a little untapped passing and how he plays, it's been untapped, but I've seen him throw passes through the years that are just like, like real. Like, oh my gosh, I can't believe, like this dude saw that he threw one of those passes last night and you know, get up and down in transition. Like it, you know, that mitigates. That mitigates some of the shooting stuff. And I think, you know, you can play him with Austin Reeves and Luka Doncic. You can get out and run.
- [16:20]
A
So you hit on a couple of things. Number one, I don't think, like Lakers fans should be feeling any angst that this team is so far behind. This is the expectation of how a preseason goes when your best player is going to turn 41 and your second best player is going to turn 41 and your best player played national team the whole summer. It's going to be a slow build. And Marcus Smart's been mostly injured the last two years. The whole thing, as far as you mentioned, three man actions involving all three of their best perimeter players. You know, JJ wants to sprinkle that in and make it more of a focal point. You saw it last year, I've talked about it before, where LeBron would enter the ball to Luka at one elbow and he and Reaves would screen for each other at the other elbow because Reeves was being guarded by the littlest defender on the floor. And you would put defenses in this hellish position of like, do I switch this little guy on the. LeBron, is someone going to cut free and like, you you know, they want to lean into more of those and, and, and, and develop many more sorts of those kind of counters. And those guys are such high IQ players. Like, I don't worry about that happening. Pace. You mentioned pace. I think this team should play faster. I think they should play faster when Luka and LeBron are on the floor and they have so much outlet passing and ball handling. I think they'll figure that out. I think that all comes in time. I don't think this, if it's really just like 10 games, I don't really think it affects their win loss record hardly at all. Like, they have Luca, they have Reeves, they will stagger them. The Reeves solo minutes actually went pretty well last year with Anthony Davis and without post trade. Anthony Davis, like Reeves without LeBron and Luka and AD was, was.
- [17:49]
B
They've gone well and they've gone well this preseason. So he's looked really good in those minutes.
- [17:54]
A
Yeah. So I don't, I don't really think it affects them. I think the, the main question about this team is Ayton and I think there'll be a very good offensive team when they're healthy. Can they get their defense to a level where they can actually challenge Oklahoma City and Denver? Because the more I watch those teams play and look, that's not to dismiss the Clippers, the Warriors, definitely not the Timberwolves. All the wind projection systems, by the way, like, are crazy high on the Warriors. I need to kind of recalibrate my warriors thoughts. I just think the west starts and maybe ends with those two teams and we'll see if anybody can challenge them. Lakers offense is going to be very good. Is. Can the defense, which was very switchy last year and very good at contesting three pointers. Some of that was probably luck, some wasn't. Like how, how does, how does JJ sort of remap that this year is the big question to me. And I don't think this, I don't think this affects that at all.
- [18:50]
B
So one of my, one of my questions for them defensively, you know, and I, I wrote a story about this last year, but you know, like, they, they try to do what, you know, they called it like banshee culture, right? Like, which was like fly around, I mean, shorthand. It was just play harder than who you're playing, right? And I would say like Christmas to mid March, they played harder than basically anybody I saw them play. LeBron James deserves a ton of credit for that. Like, he was all over the place, flying around defensively, making Calls, making switches. That's, you know, with Anthony Davis. Anthony Davis hurt. Anthony Davis traded. No, Luca, like, whatever. It didn't matter. Like, they played their asses off. The. The good thing about that is then, like, you start to tick up. Like, there was a pretty healthy stretch last year, Zach, where they were like, a top three defense, you know, but they were like. It was like. To me, it was the. How they were doing it, right? And they were doing it by flying around and playing incredibly hard.
- [19:55]
A
And I do think there is an art. It's not all art. Some of it is luck. I do think there is an art to the scouting report of closing out hard on the right shooters, closing out soft on the right shooters and leaving the right guys open. I thought the link. I don't think it's all luck. I don't buy into the analytics that it's like you. It's just complete random, like, make or miss, whatever. I think there's some things that defenses can do, and I think the Lakers did that correctly for a lot of that stretch.
- [20:23]
B
Yeah. I just wonder, though, like, you know, when you get to the playoffs, right, like, if your defensive identity is play hard, like, then what? Because, like, that gap just closes, you know, like, your ability to find energy on, you know, a super cold, like, Wednesday night in Memphis and, you know, January, it. Like, that just doesn't matter as much in the playoffs. Like, it's great that that's who you are and that. And like, if you're winning 50, 50 balls and. And like, you're, like, not giving up rebounds because what. You know, you're flying into bodies and you're. And you're boxing out and you're moving around like, Zach lower to capture the flag game.
- [21:03]
A
Do my quad, by the way, my quads. There's a. There's a whole text going on about what body parts hurt the parents. My quads are. I was walking down some stairs on Saturday night, and I was like, this isn't. Like, I swim. I do some ex. Like, I'm not in bad shape. Like, this is not normal what's happening to me.
- [21:22]
B
I was in best shape of my life this summer and played pickup basketball for, like, the first time in years. And, like, the amount of, like, muscles like that. I just haven't been using, like, 70% of my body. Like, my.
- [21:34]
A
I don't even say the word. I don't say the word quad in a normal human context. Except for now I have been saying it. Like, I say it in, like, oh, someone injured their quad in the NBA. Now I'm like, my quads, man. I don't know. How are your quads? My quads are good. It's sad. This is all.
- [21:48]
B
Do you, do you ever, do you ever have the. Speaking of LeBron and sciatica and being old, do you ever, like, suffer from neck injuries just from sleeping? That's my favorite part of getting old, is like, the, I slept wrong and now I have a pulled muscle or some sort of injury from sleeping. That's how washed I am.
- [22:05]
A
Let me tell you. I am a top 1% sleeper. I'm an elite sleeper. I don't suffer injuries in my sleep.
- [22:14]
B
You're the Dalton Connective shooting of sleeping.
- [22:16]
A
Whoever the LeBron James of feet is. And I think I know who the LeBron James of feat is.
- [22:20]
B
Rex Ryan.
- [22:22]
A
Okay, all right. Okay. Remember the LeBron James of feat that fixed his sleep?
- [22:26]
C
I do.
- [22:27]
A
I think I know who that is. But anyway, I am that of sleep. I can sleep through anything. Earthquakes, storms. Like a bear could be roaring outside our bedroom, and I would be asleep. And I don't injure myself. I'm a, I'm an elite. I don't have a lot of skills in life. Dan Sleep is one of them. All right, let's get back to. Yeah, back to the Lakers refund. I don't like. So, so you think Vandy starts. You think that's plan A?
- [22:50]
B
I, I, I mean, I think it's either him or Laravia and I. And I think sort of like Larabia's.
- [22:57]
A
I penciled in Laravia.
- [22:59]
B
Like, I think Laravia's multi, like, dimensional. Sort of like I can make things better in a bunch of different ways. Like, probably plays better off the bench in this setting, but it's, it's a real, it's a real decision. I think just like Vanderbilt gives you a little more, like, point of attack.
- [23:20]
A
I, I like, I still, like, I'm higher on this team than consensus. I think I will have a little bit more to say on Bill's over under podcast tomorrow. I like their depth. I think they did a pretty good job filling out their depth, and that's even if they get nothing from Kleba, if they get anything from Kliba, that's a bonus from me as a stretch five. That's speaking of quads. Speaking of quads, he's, he's always a walking quad injury. I like this team. And you know, LeBron's the biggest star in the world of sports. If this team is actually going to make a run at the Finals, which I don't think they can do. But if they're actually going to be able to beat these teams above them in the playoffs, it's just going to be because Luka is a monster. That Luka.
- [24:01]
B
Yeah. I was going to say, can we chart that out? We should, like. Can we chart out, like, what is. What's their path? How narrow is it?
- [24:08]
A
I think their path is. I mean, you first. It's hard to know these things. Like, it's health. It's. How do the brackets break? Is there, like some miracle where Denver and Oklahoma City have to play each other in the second round and they're not the 1 and 2 seeds. Like, somehow they get. They get slotted, like Oklahoma City, to me is. I would be blown away if not the number one seed to do the brackets break. Right. If you've got to beat both of them, I just don't see it. If you've got to be one of them and Luka just goes ham. And LeBron is healthier than you would expect a 41 year old to be. And they find the right mix offensively with those three guys and maybe they make a trade in the middle of the season. I think it's pretty. I mean, I say they have the third best odds in the west, but they're really plus 950, and then three teams are plus 1000. So they're basically tied with, like, all the way down.
- [25:00]
C
Warriors.
- [25:01]
B
The Rockets. The Rockets.
- [25:03]
A
Wolves.
- [25:04]
B
The Wolves.
- [25:05]
A
I just don't. I just think. I think LeBron's just too old. Like, I. And that's why, to me, it just comes down to, like, it's going to take a monster Luca run for them to really do it. But those two teams above them are just really, really good if they're healthy.
- [25:20]
B
I think the path, if there is one, is, you know, you use like this. This first, like, 10, 12 games, right. Like, sets a tone where Luka Doncic gets off to a really strong start, where Austin Reeves, like, Like, there was a time last year when. I want to say it was right around Christmas where, like, LeBron seated a lot of offensive possessions to Reeves, and Reeves usage started to really tick up and LeBron started to play more of like a quote unquote floor game.
- [25:49]
A
Like, obviously, which is how he should be. This is like.
- [25:52]
B
This is what I was gonna say.
- [25:53]
A
Home run scenario for him with these two guys.
- [25:56]
B
Yeah. So you know where. I mean, I. I would call it like Olympics. LeBron, like some version of, like, where you touch the game that way. But so you. If those two guys can get off to the types of starts. I mean, Austin Reeves has been playing like his. I. His situation, Zach, is to me is like a really, really interesting one. He's a, he's an unrestricted free agent or can be an unrestricted free agent at the end of the season at a time when players that are 27 years old and average 20 points a game don't become unrestricted free agents like this. Just like there's. The situation doesn't occur that often and he's. The market is going to be really interesting for him if teams think that he can be an engine, you know, like full time in a way and if so, he's going to have real suitors at a big number. And I think if he has a.
- [26:50]
A
Good year, and I think he will have a good year, I just think he's a really good player. He's a good passer. He averaged six assists a game last year. I'm looking at it. He can shoot like he's a very good offensive player. And yeah, he's a defensive slight liability, but he tries hard and he knows how to play. If he has a good year, A, he could be a fringe all star candidate for sure. And B, I mean the max is not out of the question.
- [27:15]
B
It's not out of the question. It's not. I mean, I reported this at the Athletic, like, I mean, I've spoken to multiple teams who like think that again, if he has a good year, there will be offers north of $40 million for him. Like, that's just with the cat with the. I know with the cap jumping like his. I think his max number from another team is like 42 is where it starts. That's there. You know, it's him and Trey Young are the free agents and people.
- [27:41]
A
This is why, you know, he's been put into all these fake trades. You know what, the Lakers can trade one future first right now, right on draft day. A lot of other stuff opens up.
- [27:50]
B
They can do three on draft day one right now.
- [27:54]
A
You know, he's been put into a lot of these fake trades. And I do think his situation, I've said it before, like, I'm just monitoring it. Like I'm monitoring it like a guy getting into unrestricted free agency, not really extension eligible in any real way. Who is the third option on this team. And like you just have the LeBron future clouds everywhere, just monitoring it. But to me, like Reeves plus one Lakers first round pick, I'm not sure that's getting Me, what I need to get, it's not to get over the hump. And not only that, like, he and Luka are total, like, age appropriate partners going forward, and I don't want to get older than I already am if I'm the Lakers.
- [28:34]
B
And, And I mean, the two best Luca teams, right, had like, really, really talented secondary playmakers, Kyrie Irving and Jalen Brunson. Right. And I mean, I'm like, I know that seems like, maybe blasphemous to include Australia, but I mean, he's that type of offensive player, right? Like, he's a very good player. Yeah. So I, I think. But I think his situation is on the trade front. It's just like, I mean, for all these reasons, like, if you're a team that, you know, if you think the Lakers are uneasy paying them $40 million, like, why give up real assets? Why not just wait and just.
- [29:07]
A
You sounded like Mark Cuban on Shark Tank for a second there. And for all these reasons, I'm out. Yeah. I mean, look, I mean, back to the. Let's just close. Going Back to the LeBron injury. Like, whenever LeBron is in the news, it's like an earthquake and you have to react to it. And I get that, like, this is either the best or the second best player of all time, potentially in the final year of his career. I don't know that. We'll know when we know. I know that it wasn't the decision. Part two was not about that. Shout out to the guy suing for his ticket prices going up.
- [29:43]
B
Yeah, good luck.
- [29:44]
A
Bad choice on that one, buddy. That's on you. That's a. You sue yourself. Can you sue yourself? That would be fun to do.
- [29:52]
C
But.
- [29:53]
A
I just don't like. Yeah, it's. It's not great, but I don't. I don't have a hot take on this one. I think they're going to be fine. Like, I don't. I don't think it's. It's crazy to say that without LeBron James for 12 games, they'll be fine. I think they'll be fine.
- [30:04]
B
We'll see. It's there. I mean, they're. It's like the least sexy version of like, team analysis. Like, 1. We haven't seen them play, like, literally in the preseason. I have no idea. And, like, their best pathway to improvement is internal growth. Right? It's like, if it works out, they'll be better in March than they are in November, and that's not that exciting. But, like, that to me is like, if it works, they will be. It's because J.J. redick is a better coach than he was last year. It's because Austin Reeves is better than he was last year. It's because they know how to play together better than they did last year. And like, even, like, if you believe them and listen to them talk about, like, how uncomfortable they were or how little, like, how not. Not prepared, but just sort of like how thrown together it was, you know, like they felt like, pretty good about their chances last year. I mean, I had a player text me after the game in Dallas. Last year, after Lucas return in Dallas, I had a player text me that was like, basically like, I think we can win the championship. That. That was like, like a come together moment. Like, they were like, really feeling themselves at that moment. Right. Like they thought they had all the tools, all the pieces. Lukas. You know, and by the way, this version of Luka that they're going to have this year is going to be better at least. Certainly start physically better than the one they had last year. Emotionally better than they won.
- [31:25]
A
I mean, he better. He better be. He did all the tours of the fitness magazines and he looks great. Yeah. I mean, look. And then they won.
- [31:34]
B
He did a Hot Ones, too, Zach. To balance it all out, just to be.
- [31:37]
A
I want to do Hot Ones. Can I get on Hot Ones? I'm not famous enough obviously, to get on Hot Ones. I'd like to do it. I want to see what it's like, Hot Ones guy. What's his name? Hot Ones Guy.
- [31:46]
B
Sean. He's a White Sox fan. That's why I like him.
- [31:50]
A
That's great. I don't care.
- [31:51]
B
You're a Mets fan. That's sort of the same.
- [31:53]
A
Stop. That's unnecessary. It's unnecessary.
- [31:56]
B
Sort of the same.
- [31:57]
A
It's unnecessary. You're a Cubs fan.
- [31:59]
B
I'm a White Sox.
- [32:00]
A
You're a White Sox fan. Okay.
- [32:02]
B
I feel your second team angst.
- [32:03]
A
I love. I love hot sauce. I have like four in rotation at my house at all times. I'm really the only one who uses it. So just like, let me. Come on. I didn't watch the loot.
- [32:12]
B
You should do like a team. You should do like a TEMU version of it now. I mean, you have it. You work for a company. You haven't. You have got a great microphone in front of you.
- [32:19]
A
Yeah, it's beautiful.
- [32:21]
B
You know, like, why not just like, it doesn't have to be on wings. Why not put hot sauce on something else? Crackers.
- [32:27]
C
I don't know.
- [32:27]
A
There Was a trend, like, three years ago. The hot chip challenge. Do you remember that?
- [32:32]
B
I do.
- [32:33]
A
I saw. I will not name this teenager. He's now a college freshman. I saw a teenager do the hot chip challenge, which I guess it was like, one chip. You bought a bag and it was one chip. And I honestly thought we needed to take him to the emergency room. It was one of those. It looked like an alien movie where the guy's fine after he gets bit by the alien, and then 30 seconds later, he's convulsing on the floor and his skin is changing colors. That frightened me. And I was talking a lot of crap about, if you do it, I'll do it. And then he did it, and I was like, oh, I'm not going to do that.
- [33:06]
B
No.
- [33:08]
A
Okay, so Lakers will be fine. I don't know how, but, yeah, put me on the hot sauce thing. How did Luca do? Did he make it to the end? Do you have to make it to the end?
- [33:15]
B
He made it to the end. He is bad with hot. With spicy food. A couple of. I don't know if they were either Serbian or Slovenian. Speaks both languages. Some good cursing in the comments, which was good.
- [33:28]
A
There's some great. I mean, I know the Serbian. I don't know Slovenian. I know the Serbian curse words.
- [33:34]
B
Very colorful. Based on some of the translations. I saw, like, descriptive data. Good stuff.
- [33:41]
A
And I've said this before, like, American curse words are like, you former Yugoslavia curse word. Curse phrases are.
- [33:48]
B
That's a better way. It's a phrase. It's like a. It's like an idiom.
- [33:52]
A
They're very colorful. And like, they're so. They're so gross that I don't even want to say them on this podcast where I'm allowed to swear.
- [33:59]
B
So he says what? At one point. And like, Sean Evans, I think is the other guy's name. And like, Sean is kind of like in. Lucas says, like, it means good morning. Yeah. Like, while he's, like, choking through.
- [34:10]
A
So you'll hear. You'll hear Djokovic sometimes during matches blurt them out. And the umpires don't know what he's saying. But I know what he's saying. They're very descriptive. And I'm telling you, like you. But, like, they're not for show. If you just walk by any coffee shop with a bunch of Yugoslavian people, you will just hear them from the coffee. All right, Dan Woicke, what else? You're athletic. What else we got going on?
- [34:32]
B
Nothing. You know, just here, like, I'm in that time of year right now where it's like, you know, I'm, I'm packing and unpacking it.
- [34:38]
A
Is there any hope, Is there any hope for Dalton Connect?
- [34:41]
B
Oh, this is a good question. I think there's some hope. So I wrote a piece last week at the Athletic about Dalton Connect and about his situation. I think, you know, another blessing in disguise. Right. Like, it's really hard to play yourself into value as the 11th guy in a rotation and I think he was going to enter this season as the 11th guy in their rotation that assuming like full health. Well, they're not full health. He will get an opportunity to play. I think there are some real, real concerns. Like obviously the defensive stuff is a problem and like being in the right position, reading the game in the right way, it's only going to get better with reps. Like that's the only pathway for him is a lot of time on the court and a lot of mistakes and a lot of learning. I don't know how patient they're going to be on that front. I think there are some like offensive stuff too at play here. Zach, like he, you know, he's been a shooter, like cast sort of as a shooter on this team. I think he's more of a scorer if like, I think he's more like needs the ball, needs rhythm, needs to get shots up, needs to get to the free throw line, like a three level type of guy.
- [35:51]
A
He looked at his best to me last year when he would like come off an Iverson screen or something like that. Catch the ball on the move and go to the rim. He's like pretty explosive going to the rim.
- [36:02]
B
Get to the.
- [36:02]
C
Now that.
- [36:03]
A
That also requires him to remember the play and when he is supposed to come off the screen and where the screen is. I just asked because he's kind of. He went from darling of the draft and there was all that fawning media coverage like, oh, he slipped to the Lakers. Genius of Rob Palinka. Oh my God, Rookie of the year.
- [36:19]
B
Yeah, I mean I, I would. I was at a Dick sporting goods early in the season last year and they were selling four jerseys or five jerseys. It was Anthony Davis, LeBron James, Bronnie James, Austin Reeves and Dalton Connect.
- [36:29]
A
The rest of the league really missed the boat, but the Lakers saw it the whole time, blah, blah, to like out of their rotation and like out of the discussion. When you took like Gabe Vincent comes up before Dalton Connect comes up. I just thought it was interesting. All right, Dan Woi, go do your job. Thanks for joining me. And I gotta go ice my quads in.
- [36:47]
B
I was gonna say stretch it out. Do some. Do some good stretches.
- [36:50]
A
Yeah. Thanks, bud. This episode is brought to you by Scout Motors. Everyone loves a good comeback story. Like when Michael Jordan broke his foot in 85, never returned that same season and set a new record for most points scored in a postseason game. Another comeback that's just as exciting. The Scout Traveler and Scout terror returning new and improved with four wheel drive and a projected 1000 pound feet of torque. Join the waitlist@scoutmotors.com Concept vehicles not available for sale. Features and performance specifications are preliminary and subject to change. Joining the waitlist is not guaranteed to purchase. Visit scoutmotors.com for details. All right, let's talk about some random teams that I have neglected. I'm sorry. To these teams you are no longer going to be neglected. We will talk about you and your mediocre projections with Nikaias Duncan from the Dunker spot now of Yahoo.com podcast network. Nikaias, how are you, sir?
- [37:41]
C
I am doing well, trying to get my body back oriented on the East Coast. I was out in Phoenix and Vegas for the WNBA finals. Excited into the season there, but ready to ramp back up on the NBA side. A lot of preseason basketball to catch up on over the weekend, but ready to rock with you.
- [37:57]
A
Congrats on the new deal, by the way. Well deserved. I hope it's going well so far for you and Steve Jones Jr. I will say this again, if you guys are the two of you, if you want to know what happened in the basketball games or what's going on in the basketball game games on the court, where the basketball is played. You guys are one of the go to spots I'm glad to have you on to talk about some random teams. One we're going to start with is not so random and that's the Milwaukee Bucks. And I want to talk about them as a team because all the discourse about them has been about Giannis and his. His searching around, which was legit. He basically confirmed it at media day. Like I'm locked in for now, six or seven months, who knows? He said the word temptation, all this and we've done the fake trades. We've done all of that. We're starting with the Bucs today because according to Sham Steranief, citing Giannis's the Antetokounmpa Kumpo brothers agent, Alex Tyratsis, the Bucs are signing Alex Antetokounmpo a third Antetokounmpo to a two way deal. If you don't think this is a sign of total desperation on the part of the Bucks, I'm sorry to say you are kidding yourself. They know this is a big season. They know that Giannis has a wandering eye. Giannis has told the world that he has a little bit of a wandering eye. Obviously they have now lost in the first round lots of years in a row. They made a desperate move with Damian Lillard and Miles Turner, which I think will work out for them. But you know, they're out. They're running out of big bullets to change his team. I just want to say, Nikais, I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm just telling you like this is a two way spot. I don't think Alex Antetokounmpo is going to play in the NBA, but it's still a two way spot. Alex Antokounmpo has played 65 G League games in his career. Starting in 2021 career average five points a game on 37% shooting, 25% on three. He has played internationally for two different teams, one in Spain, one in Greece. In 15 international games he has 17 total points. Like I'm sorry to say that he is not being signed to a two way contract because the Bucs believe that maybe he can break through their roster. He is being signed to appease Giannis and so that's where we are. So that's we can leave that be. That is what it is. This team is actually quite an interesting team to me as a team on the floor. I'm excited about the Giannis Turner combination. It's interesting to me that they've been bringing Kuzma off the bench or they brought him off the bench in their last postseason game or preseason game and started A.J. green and Kevin Porter Jr. And Gary Trent Jr. Just loading up on shooting around Giannis. They've done some things to upgrade their bench. I like Cole Anthony. I like Ryan Hollins. I like Jericho Sims. Their over under is 42 and a half. That is shockingly low to me. I don't know that they can like really challenge to win. I don't think I'll be bolder, clearer. I don't think they can win the East. I don't think they can really challenge to win the east. But I do think this is an interesting team built around Giannis playing point, Giannis doing everything. Giannis as long as he can give them 65, 70 games. If it's below that, they're in Deep, deep doo doo. But I kind of like this roster that doesn't. It's, it's a little disappointing that I don't think they're a real contender given that Giannis is in the square of his prime. But what do you think of the roster? Maybe you're more optimistic than I am.
- [41:08]
C
I am intrigued by the roster as well. Like I think loading up on shooting around Giannis obviously makes sense. And Giannis I guess can't even say quietly. He has just been like one of the most effective pick and roll ball handlers in the league over the last two or three years with any sort of volume. And so if you are going to lean more into like Gary Trent Jr. Can set go screens for him. Him and AJ Green have already developed a really good partnership together. If you're going to lean more into that piece, in addition to all the work that he already does inside the ark with some of the mid post isos and things like that, the passing has continued to grow. Like you do just kind of have a pathway to a good regular season offense at the very least, particularly when he's on the floor and defensively him plus Miles Turner should be very good. You don't have like a plus perimeter defenders but like among the guard group and among the perimeter players that they're going to be playing like all of them are like probably plus in the strength department at the very least among their position. So that does lead you to a level of switchability 1 through 3 and 1 through 4 if you're going to include Giannis in that and so you can map out how this team is regular season successful. As for like their postseason projection, like they're probably tier 2 at best for me or they're in the if everything breaks right camp. I am also coming off of to go to the W route. I'm coming off of an aces season where they were under.500 and they just won the championship because they had the best player in the world. So I can't completely rule out Giannis just saying I am better than all of you and I have a spread floor deal with me for five to seven games every round. But yeah, I think it's fair to have them in that second or maybe even third tier if you're higher on some other teams. But the pathway of Giannis being one of if not the best player in the league, shooting switchable defense to where you can at least hover around, I don't know like 12 to 15th in defensive rating, top 10 offense, top 15 defense that gets you enough regular season wins to play the what side of the bracket am I on game. And from there all bets are off because Giannis is that good.
- [43:08]
A
Yeah, I have them in. Look, I've been driving the Atlanta hype train. Couldn't be more excited about the Hawks. I love the Magic. I think the Magic are going to be a regular season wins machine this year. Just their floor is just so high because of their defense and their competition level and Bain solves a lot of their issues. I think Milwaukee is in that group. Vegas doesn't think so. Vegas has them much lower than that. I'm putting Milwaukee in that bucket just out of respect to like they have the best guy and it's not close and he's going to single handedly make them a decent team if now they shot the hell out of it last year. They're the number one three point shooting team in the league on middle volume. So if the percentage comes down, just regression to the mean, whatever, but the volume goes up. I think the math still kind of works out in their favor. There's still a Doc Rivers protect the rim at all costs, transition D at all costs kind of team. I think Myles Turner fits nicely into that as a three point shooting big. So he'll get back on defense early. Protect the rim. Portis is still here. I just think they have like. I don't think people realize that Ryan Rollins is pretty good.
- [44:12]
C
Good.
- [44:13]
A
KPJ was pretty good for them. Trent and Green, I'm a believer in AJ Green still not extended. I think, I think there was some hope that that deal could get done somewhere around the mid level exception. We'll see. I just think they're a good solid team and like there's a world in which they're in the second round of the playoffs and Darius Garland is hurt again and it's like 2, 2 against the Cavs in the 14 series or whatever and you're like, you could see Giannis being like, yeah, this team's still pretty damn good. Now I don't think they can beat those teams in a playoff series, but I know Giannis isn't scared of them. There's also a world where this goes south completely and the Giannis trade rumors start in December. Now I just think an in season deal is very complicated for a million different reasons and it's much more likely an off season thing. I think he actually referred to that himself when he was like, these are. The temptation is something I think about between the end of the season and the beginning of the season. But, you know, I think this is a good, solid team. I don't. That's not what John Horst wants to hear. It's not what the owners want to hear, it's not what Bucks fans want to hear because they're accustomed to being an inner circle title contender. And even in a weekend East, I do not think they are that.
- [45:19]
C
I think that's all fair. Like, I think if you are Bucs optimistic, you obviously lean on the greatness of Giannis first and foremost. You nail the little things and then if anybody in the guard room pops for you or if any of their younger players pop for you, that's where the ceiling at the very least gets higher. Like you mentioned KPJ in particular, I want to spend like 20 seconds max on him, but he did shoot the leather off the ball for most of his Bucks didn't last year. Like, if that carries over, then that helps their overall profile. And again, you got Garrett Jr. You have A.J. green. None of them are quote unquote names, but all can fill a role to kind of accentuate the overall system on both ends. So if there's a level of solid, Giannis can take you over the top. So, yeah, do I think they are better than the Knicks or the Cavs or. I am also high. The Southeast Division is going to be fun. That'll be the one broad stroke take. I want to get off on this podcast, but you. You all know, you put Giannis in a room with some of these dudes, it's like he. He's just better than everyone in the East.
- [46:16]
A
So the Southeast Division. Let me just make sure I have the Southeast Division, right, because we're going to get some Southeast, Atlanta, Orlando, Miami, Charlotte, Washington. We're going to get to Charlotte later. I did Washington last. Last week. We're going to talk about it with Bill Moore tomorrow. I'm excited for the Wizards. They're going to lose a shit ton of basketball games and I'm excited for how they're going to do it. I like that you're just. Just pumping up the Southeast Division. I like it. It's a good take. And we will talk about the Hornets. All right, I'm done with thoughts on the Bucks. I'm just going to. We're going to go through some teams.
- [46:46]
C
Okay.
- [46:47]
A
And I'm going to dictate the order. This is a team that I have not talked about much at all and I don't really have a good reason why. I want to talk about the Pelicans as a What the hell is this Team? Team. I think their starting lineup is going to be Jordan Poole, not a point guard. FYI, Trey Murphy iii, Herb Jones, Zion and Kavan Looney. I love, I love the Looney signing for them. I'm actually kind of pleasantly surprised that he's starting over Eve's misi because I just think they need an adult in the room who's going to execute the scheme every single time and do like the little stuff and not care if he scores any points. And then the bench I think is kind of interesting. Like Alvarado is just a plus every time he's on the floor. Hawkins, is it going to happen? I'm interested. Sadiq Bay. People forgot about Sadiq Bay. Missed the whole year. I think Sadiq Bay is a really nice. If he's your seventh or eighth guy, I think that's a sign of a good team. And then you got me see Matkovic, Queen. We don't need to talk about the Queen trade. You know what? We do need to talk about the Queen trade. Because to me, the biggest question about the team is what are their incentives? Are the coaches who are on thin ice and they know, are they going to be told you got to play Jeremiah Fears and you got to play Dairy Queen, you got to play them a lot of minutes. We need to prove that these were the right picks in the lottery. We need to prove the Queen pick in particular because of what we traded to get to get that pick, or are they going to be free to just play whoever they want and Chase wins because most rookies are just not ready to help teams win? I think Fears is probably more ready than Queen, but they like, there's no reason that those guys have to play 20 minutes a game. They can be normal, like 10 minute a game, bench players for a normal team or are they incentivized? Is the front office going to say we need to win as many games as possible to avoid the humiliation of potentially trading like a top three pick in the draft for Derek Queen? I don't know where that all nets out. I'm assuming they're just going to try to win. For the most part, this team is kind of a forgotten backwater team because Zion's always hurt. He's not hurt right now, but he's always hurt. They're going to need him to be healthy, not just because he's the best player on the team, but because with McCollum gone, with Dejounte Murray injured for at least part of the year, if not slow play, it Although the rumblings, he looks like everything you're hearing about Tatum and how great and ahead of schedule he looks. You're also hearing about Dejounte Murray if you ask the right questions. But they're gonna need like high levels of point Zion because Point Jordan pool is not a thing I want to lean too far into. And then you got backup guards after that. Trey Murphy will take a heavier load. I don't, I think there's just too much talent if they're healthy for this team to be just discounted as like, oh, they're a bottom three team in the west again. But obviously the if they're healthy caveat is a huge one with the best player. But I don't, I don't hate the roster. I think there's some good stuff here. What do you, what are you interested in when you, when you, when you're going to watch them?
- [49:55]
C
It naturally starts with Zion and it starts with the offense in particular because I do think if you're using Zion, it's funny because we're coming off of the Milwaukee conversation, but if you're using Zion as more of an initiator and as a hub like Jordan Poole can shoot and can in general just flow off ball if you need them to. Trey Murphy III can also do that. And then you add in the fact that he has gotten stronger and now people are just bouncing off of him on drives. I'm just excited to see how much of that carries over into the regular season. But you have spacing, you have guards that can beat tilted defense defenses, you have Kavon Looney who can screen all over the place. So if you want to get into some of the lower big, big pick and rolls, you can because Zion chews up space as quickly as anyone in the league. And so like you do have you. I curious to see like how creative they get offensively. Like some of the early showings in preseason were interested in me, like where they're giving Zion the ball, what the split of on ball and off ball usage for him is how they're using Trey Murphy third, how they're using Jordan pool. If that coalesces like, they should be a pretty good offense with at least, you know, Jordan Poole, Trey Murphy iii, Zion on the floor together. The defense is where I kind of raise my brow because I don't know exactly what their best scheme is. And that's not what you shouldn't have that answer in preseason. So I'm not stressing too much, but I enjoyed, quietly enjoyed some of the compete level From Jordan Poole. Defensively, last year still wasn't a great defender. Trey Winter, third, is still growing on that end. I'm excited to see Herb Jones come back. He is coming back from the shoulder, if I remember correctly.
- [51:23]
A
Total loss season last year for Herb Jones, basically. And again, like when guys lose a season like that, people kind of forget how good they are. That dude is a menace on defense. Who took steps to be a more active participant in offense, like attacking closeouts, running in transition, handling the ball in transition like he can be part of a functional, fast moving, creative offense.
- [51:44]
C
Yeah, the playmaking popped a little bit too. So I want to see him get back to full form because when healthy, he is one of the best perimeter defenders on the planet with some offensive juice. But I was joking with this with Steve on a recent episode of the Pod and I was like, okay, this Pelicans defense, they went with switching, we saw some drop, we saw some at the level, we saw some ice. And in every scheme that they went to, there was an element of, oh, okay, I can see it. And then immediate breakdown. It's like, oh, this is how they can get dinged, how quickly they can settle in on a base defensively. Because obviously the best defenses can do a little bit of everything, but as quickly as they can depend on or find a base that they're comfortable with, I think that's where you get into some of the floor and ceiling talk with them, because I agree with you with the talent itself. One of the things I enjoyed in their preseason when they did go to their second unit, it's Jose Alvarado and Jeremiah Fears on the floor together and they're just picking up dudes full court. I'm just like, I don't know what this is going to look like on offense, but that's going to be annoying to deal with for X amount of minutes per game. But I just don't know where they're at defensively.
- [52:46]
A
I just love Alvarado for this team. And if Fears is struggling, like, I just think the coaching staff should have free rein. Just be like, you know what? Alvarado is going to play 25 minutes today and you don't get to play at all. And I like Fiers. I think Fears is going to be interesting for them. Defense is the whole thing. I don't know how they can become an average defense. Like 20th might be optimistic for me. They were they allowed last season the third most shots at the rim and the second most threes. I mean, that's just a recipe for Just like death by opposing efficiency. And I think you nailed it with the scheme stuff because there's a lot of the next team we're going to talk about, the Charlotte Hornets, this applies to as well, when there's a lot of injuries and a lot of turnover. And that's the case for both of these teams. Just like installing a basic principle of like, this is what we do. Here's how you do it is a very difficult thing and I actually think it's the lowest hanging fruit in the league. To go from bad to competitive is just. You know what? Forget complexity, forget like opponent specific game planning. Forget all that. Here's our base defense, here are the rules. Just execute that every single time and you get to a floor a little bit faster than you are. If you're trying to be sort of tricky and strategic on defense, that's like what Mike Brown did with the Kings his first year there. It's just like, we're just going to do this one thing. We're going to do it. If you don't follow the rules, I'm going to take you out. And the Pelicans, that's a hard thing for a coach to establish. It's our thing for a young coach in Charlotte, Charles Lee, to establish too, given all the turnover. And I just look around like Looney can switch a little bit. I don't know that I want to lean all the way into that. You know, it's like, like a full on switch scheme and then, you know, pool can't switch. He's gonna get the shit beat out of him and he can if you want. And then, you know your backup centers are going to be, you know, me see was just below average on defense last year. I still like him. He's a rookie. He's going to be below average. That's what they are. I, I don't know what their defense, I mean, I like the Herb Jones and Trey Murphy iii. That's a nice sort of like in the middle of the defense wing combination. I think Trey can get better on that end. I, I just. If they're 12th in offense and 22nd on defense or 23rd on defense, I'm not sure where that nets out. And just going forward, like the question, the big picture questions are still as pressing as they ever were.
- [55:15]
C
And so like even related to the defense, like what's most comfortable for Zion because I think for him like he is moving better and you certainly see it on offense. He's moving better defensively too. But like what are the second and third efforts going to look like for him. And again, do you want him switching, do you want him more? If you want to ramp up your aggression with your bigs, do you want Zion trying to go back to the Duke days of just kind of wrecking stuff at the rim as a weak side guy? Like that potential is still in there, but you have to see that on a per position basis. Like I don't, I just don't know what they want to land on and they need to figure out what they want to do. And honestly I don't care which one it is. If I just have an idea of this is what they're trying to do, it makes it easier for me to analyze how good this could be. But that's just kind of where it's at. Like it's a lot of skills, a lot of versatility, a lot of different lineup combinations that I like that they can get to, but it is a lot of moving pieces and a lot of moving parts. And like as someone that is, I am a fan of Willie Green overall. He has a tough job this year. Like I do not envy him having to try to piece all of this together. And so I do hope there's like a little bit of grace within the first like five to 10 games as he tries to figure out everything that's happening with this roster.
- [56:23]
A
Seasons can go sideways real fast to your point. And obviously he has new bosses in Joe Dumars and Troy Weaver who were not behind his hiring. And so that just is what it is. You do worry, you know, if there's even more point Zion than we've seen in previous seasons, how much does that take out of him? This guy's been, you know, out half or more of every season. Every bit but like two. That's a little worrisome but like you've seen the glimpses with him. The second or third effort thing is like that absolutely nails it because not in great shape. Zion or not dialed in Zion, he, he makes the, he'll hedge on the first pick and roll and then getting back to his man is too slow. He's jogging, he's coasting. And then if you make him do anything else on defense, he's not going to do it. Engage. Zion can be decent to pretty good on that end. I remember vividly the season when he got hurt in the play in against the Lakers when he was just single handedly destroying the Lakers.
- [57:19]
C
Wrecking him.
- [57:20]
A
Yeah, that same season they played the Clippers like late in the season and they gave him the Kawhi assignment, they're like, you're going to guard Kawhi. And he did really, really well. Like he contested shots, he got around screens and it was clear that he had reached a point where he was both in shape and engaged. And it was the coaching staff being like, we're not going to switch you onto him. You're just going to guard Kawhi Leonard this game. And he was up to it. And it just stood out to me as like, obviously you can't bottle that level of defensive intensity and effort every single game over 82 games when you're the number one. Opt offense too. But there's something in there where he can make two, three, four defensive plays in one possession. And they're just going to have to have that guy and that guy for those two months or whatever was super duper intriguing, even more so than he was the year he was an all NBA candidate and all that. So I hope we get to see it, but I don't. I mean, I don't. If I had to sit here and say who's going to make the play in tournament, I'm not sure I would have the Pelicans in the top 10 in the West. But it's in play. Certainly not top six. But I just hope, I hope we have an interesting year where coaching and front office are aligned to some degree. All right, let's talk about Charlotte. Your hometown team, your guys total lost year last year with Miller and Lamelo missing tons of games. Mark Williams always misses tons of games. He's now plays for a different team after they tried to trade him at least two times. A lot of guys here. A lot of guys. The only three starters that I am sure about as we approach the end of preseason are Lamelo, Brandon Miller, who looms to me as one of the most important players in the league, and Miles Bridges. Don't know who's going to start at center. I suspect it might be Plumlee, maybe Diabate. Who knows? The third perimeter starting spot could go in a million different directions. Colin Sexton is here. Tjon Salon is still here. Looming is like, did we, did we miss that one? Do we need another bite at the lottery apple? Because we kind of blew that one. And you know, we got Knipple this year. We're excited about that. But do we want another top, another shot at like a top, top guy? Brandon Miller was a top, top guy, number two. You know, like, can Grant Williams play some center? They just have a lot of. They have a lot of guys they like. This Kalkbrenner kid, Josh Green is still here. I mentioned Sexton. I don't know who starts in that, in that last McNeely as a rookie. I don't know who starts in that last perimeter spot. But to me like this team last year was 29th on offense and 24th on defense. If LaMelo can play 65 games and we just keep having these ifs with these guys who are injured all the time. Their numbers with Lamelo are actually pretty good. They were plus one last season, plus one single measly point with Lamelo and Brandon Miller on the floor together and only 466 minutes. I think they were plus four. Plus four with LaMelo, Miller and Bridges altogether. That doesn't sound like much. For this team to have just like even scoring margins with those dudes on the floor is interesting to me. Their offense was good when the good and decent when Lamelo was on the floor. Now we can talk about him and like the decision making and the nuances that need to get ironed out in his game. I've said before, like are you a carnival or are you a winning basketball player? Like which one do you want to be? I think this is going to be a decent offensive team. I just don't know what the roadmap is for them to be anything like competent defensively given their, I mean like Miles Bridges at the four and this parade of dudes at the five is not a recipe for like anything but a bottom five defense in the NBA. What, what do you see there?
- [60:58]
C
The defense, aside from the Lamelo health stuff, the defense is the biggest question that I have with Charlotte and that's where the big man room is interesting to me and this is something that I think Charles Lee was talking about during the Hornets media day. It's like well we have these guys that can all do different things. Like we can have Mason Plumley up the touch. We got caught. Runner at the rim. Musa Diabate is athletic. He could do a couple different things. Now are any of them ready to be positive defenders consistently heading into the regular season? Like I don't know, like Mason Plumlee is probably your best bet just because he knows like just situationally where he's supposed to be. But even then if you are banking on Mason Plumlee to be your anchor defensively, like it's not a bet that you feel comfortable with. At the very least you leave room for him to over perform on that route. But yeah, like it's. I'm curious about the big room. I'm curious about the wing room, especially with like, Grant Williams still out, Josh Green still out. And so that just leaves you with, okay, who exactly do you even want defending number ones right now? And so, like, is that the road map to starting Lamelo and Colin Sexton together? Like, I don't really want Colin sex and defending number ones, but he's always going to be up for the challenge at the very least. And he has quietly gotten better at screen navigation as his career has gone on. So, like, are you giving him that until Josh Green gets healthy? When Josh Green and Grant Williams are back, do you become more of a switchable group because they are just kind. They're quietly kind of large across multiple positions. Like, is that something that you lean into? You know, to our earlier conversation about just build out a base and we'll go from there. Is that what the Hornets decide to do? Like, during preseason play? So far it's felt like a lot of. Just a lot of drop. We're going to have our bigs back. Y' all are going to navigate. We're going to try to stay at home on shooters and we see how we do.
- [62:41]
A
And I honestly like that. Like, just keep it simple and try not to be awful. Like, I don't. But. But we'll see. I'm sorry, continue, but I like, I mean, like, if that's the. That's the simplest kind of base to install in the NBA is just like, let's do that. We're not going to be great at it. We don't have the personnel to be great at it. But if everyone is in the right place at the right time, we can be steady instead of a sieve of mistakes and leaks.
- [63:07]
C
Yeah. And so that's where I'm like, I wonder how much, like, early ball pressure they try to mix in. They just largely have not done that during the preseason. Like, we talk about teams like Memphis and Portland, Indiana last year going to pick you up full court. Charlotte has been the exact opposite of that. And I think that's smart from Charles Lee. Like, we don't have the personnel at least while some of our guys are out. So I do wonder, once Green comes back in particular, do they ramp that up to try to bleed some more shot clock from teams and still lean into more of that simplicity base? Like, we'll see what happens on that front. But yeah, they got to get the defense to the level because the offense I oddly feel good about. Like, you mentioned the numbers already before LaMelo went down last year. One of the things that I was super excited about. He's getting to the rim more. The foul drawing feels better. He's working through contact better. We know what kind of pull up shooter and playmaker you can be. If he's getting more comfortable inside the arc, that just opens up everything for everyone else. And so if that continues and Brandon Miller grows like they do have an interesting mix of shooters and drivers like you mentioned cock. And if a little bit earlier, I would be shocked non injury division if he's not averaging at least 25 minutes a night. Because that dude just knows how to play basketball. Really good shooter, really good cutter. The offensive rebounding has popped during preseason play if you care about that kind of thing. He just reads the floor super well.
- [64:23]
A
He's a basketball player. He's a good basketball player.
- [64:27]
C
It's very good. So they have a lot of guys that can beat tilted defenses. And if Lamelo is going to be better at getting in the teeth of the defense, in addition to just finding passing angles that maybe six other guys in the league can hit, the roadmap to a good offense is there. I just have lots of questions about the defense and that's where like I would love to be. I'll still say like watch out for Charlotte in the play and Hunt, but like I can't get firmly to they're going to be a playing team this year yet. Because I just need to see more from the defense.
- [64:56]
A
I would be surprised if, well, I mean nothing would surprise me in the east. Like 10th in the east is, you know, congratulations. Here's your Brown participation ribbon for being in the NBA. I just think the defense is almost drawing dead. But you know, look, I want to talk about Lamelo. There's been a lot of like, should they trade Lamelo? Is he going to be on the trade market if they. If they. I do think there are parts of the franchise that would like to take another tank year or semi tank year. And I think one of the themes of the season is like you could win 28, 29 games and be the fifth, sixth worst record in the NBA. And given how the lottery is unfolded with the new odds, like that could be okay. You can have your cake and eat it too. You can like pretty much compete and still be bad enough to have a shot at one of these top three dudes in the draft. But you know, LaMelo has four more years on his contract through 2829 where he makes $46 million. I don't really see any kind of realistic scenario where he gets traded this Year. I also am like, I feel like maybe you are with me. We're two of the last people on like the Lamelo might still be really good bandwagon. I've said this over and over. Six eight, a proven lock, solid track record as a great three point shooter. Now it doesn't look great by the numbers, but when you consider how many crazy shots he's taking, his pull up three numbers are really, really, really good. His catch and shoot three numbers are elite. With that kind of passing vision, that's a unicorn's too strong a word. You don't find a lot of guys like that. And I'm not giving up on it until it's like he. It was laughed at last year when he was in the all star conversation. I understood why. I thought last year he veered toward like, well what, what the hell else am I going to do? Who am I passing to? I'm just going to take another pull up three. I know the coaches are on him about like, okay, that was last year. This year, can you bag some of the crazier ones to let other people touch the ball? Brandon's back, Miles is still here, Knipple's here. We got some guys. Sexton might be on the floor with you some. And more than that, it's like time and score, time and score. Like are we ahead in the last two minutes of the game? Consider that mismatches like have you produced, can you lean into a two man game with a little bit more strategic focus that might produce a mismatch that we can then exploit if they can just sort of like rope in the wildness of his game on both ends of the floor. Because defensively he might be even more wild than he is on offense. I'm just not out and I'm not going to be out. I think Lamelo is a really good offensive player.
- [67:40]
C
Yeah, like, I think that's where for me the interior growth matters so much because I think some of him leaning on those bad habits and I was chuckling watching back the the Mavericks game where he just goes catch the ball in the left wings like jab series and just takes a one legged three with like seven left on the shot clock. Just like, brother, you didn't have to do that. You're good enough to make it, but you didn't have to do that. But I do think some of those like perimeter leanings is because he was still trying to get more comfortable with the drives and playing through contact and some of the early pickups and that leads to Some of those odd footed floaters that he can still make because he has God tier touch from just about anywhere. But in terms of are am I making a basketball move that actually bends the defense and opens something up, I think some of that is a comfort deal and I think as he's gotten more comfortable the decision making has to come with it. But I feel more confident that he's going to be able to make better decisions now. Like I do feel better about what he does inside the arc and I think he'll find a better balance between taking those pull up threes and getting inside and making things work for others. And I think having someone like Colin Sexton leaning more on Brandon Miller, he should just have more all ball opportunities in general. Even if it's as simple as we're running pistol hit it ahead to someone else, they run that you get the ball on the second side and then do what you do. Even that just puts them in a different context for him to bend defenses and ultimately make plays and so the talent is clearly there. I'm with you. Like I'm more worried about the defense than the offense with him. If he buys in, if we see just, you know, we talked about second or third efforts with Zion, like I want to see more first efforts with Lamello but once he's there like he's still, he is generally good off the ball when he's locked in.
- [69:20]
A
Like he's a great rebounder.
- [69:22]
C
Great rebounder, great rebounder that juices your transition attack. But like the games in which throughout his Hornets career where you can tell from tip oh, Lamelo actually wants to play defense today he is just hawking stuff off the ball and you can just kind of see like I see plays two steps ahead on offense. I can also see this swing is going to lead to a reversal. I can jump this and go he has that in him. He just has to bottle that up and lean into it more consistently. So I hope that he takes that self accountability first and foremost. But beyond that, Charles Lee can get to him any of those assistants. This is not a team that has a ton of veterans for like I don't know, maybe that's a Mason Plumlee conversation at the very least. Grant Wood.
- [70:01]
A
We've said the name Mason Plumlee a disturbing number of times for an NBA team in 2025, 2026. The inside the arc thing that you're talking about with Lamelo is massive. I mean this is now three years ago. I remember talking with Steve Clifford before the season and with Lamelo before the season about slowing down a little bit on the pick and roll and taking an extra dribble or two to probe the lane with the defender on your back and see does the lob open up if I make. If I make eye contact with my center, does the weak side shooter open up? Do I get to the line more? I don't get to the line or the rim enough. His rim volume was really low and they both were focused on it. They were both determined. There was a big uptick in that season of maybe two or three seasons ago and then it's gone back down. I think that is a big part of him becoming more of a team half court point guard than he was last year. I'm also a believer in Brandon Miller. I think Brandon Miller is going to be really good on both sides of the ball. I'm just, I'm interested, I'm interested in. By the way, a team that we're not going to talk about is the Sacramento Kings. I do just want to note that Keegan Miller. Keegan Miller. Keegan Murray suffered a thumb injury. He's going to be out four to six weeks. I don't want to spoil tomorrow's over under fest with Bill. I was already under on the Kings despite their win total being 35 and a half. I think this has major like disaster season potential in Sacramento this year and that's all I'm going to say about that. Speaking of the Sacramento Kings, they got a lot of their players from the Chicago Bulls. Let's talk about the Chicago bulls.
- [71:40]
C
What a segue.
- [71:42]
A
39 win special last year. That's pretty good. 39 wins. Golf clap for that. They were 29 and 40 and then they finished the season 103 with wins against including wins against Washington, Philadelphia, Charlotte, Toronto, Tank and Sacramento personnel largely the same. They drafted Noah Senge. We'll see if and how much he plays Kobe. White's missed a lot of the preseason but I think there's some hope he's going to come back. He's missed all the preseason but I think there's hope that he's going to come back fairly soon. And then they just, you know their starting five when healthy will be White, Giddy Bouzelis who I'm super high on very excited about and Vuchu, you know shot shot it better last year but it's just, it's not going great and then just pick from this morass of Julian Phillips, Isaac Okoro, Kevin Herder, Dalen Terry, Patrick Williams of like disappointing slash. Never really had high expectations Slash just guys who. They're on the floor and they don't like, do anything. They guard okay and they like run up and down the court, but they just like don't do anything with the ball. Herder will shoot, obviously, and he's. He's a relatively new guy for them. Desumnu. I really like IO as a backup. I like their backup guards. The sun and Trey Jones are good. I just look at this team, it's cool. They have max cap space going forward. Giddy finished the season super strong. Great. I just look at him like, I don't know. I just don't know. I don't know. I don't know how they build a good defense with. With these guards and Vucovic in the middle. They play with so little force. Like they were 29th in free throw rate, 28th in offensive rebounding rate, 29th enforcing turnovers on defense. They don't foul on defense, which is good, but I'd like, actually like to see some physicality and violence out of them. I just. I don't know, man. It's. It's gotta be hard to be a Bulls fan. Like, I don't like, I think they're 39 wins would be a lot for this team this year. Like, I'm actually lower on their ability to replicate a sub like a barely sub 500 season than. Than I was a year ago. Like, I don't. I don't really know other than Boozelis. Like, I just don't really know how to engage with this team.
- [73:59]
C
I think actually I want to pause right there. Who do you think should be the fifth starter for Chicago?
- [74:06]
A
The fourth or the fifth?
- [74:08]
C
I guess the fifth. We're banking in Giddy, White Bouzilles and Vuch.
- [74:14]
A
Oh, man, I don't know. I don't. I Can I just say I don't care. Like, who do you. You seem like. You seem like you care, so I want you to nominate who you. You care about.
- [74:22]
C
Like, I would probably go just because I like the juice that I.O. brings off the bench. Like, I would probably go aoro.
- [74:28]
A
Oh, so you want to go a coral?
- [74:30]
C
Okay, I'd probably go coral. Like if, like we have what, a two and a half year sample now that he is just kind of shot fine from three and particularly from the corners. If you get enough of that, you have the cutting, which Josh Giddy is going to hit you on cuts if nothing else. And he is someone that you can at least give the top billing defensive assignments to. Yes, I think if you Go with Kevin Herder. The shooting obviously helps. The playmaking quietly is very good. He has put some fun passes on film. They met to the Atlanta days like that juices the offense. But you're still in the same loop of okay, are we just asking Matas Bou zealous to defend number ones. And I, I am much more intrigued by Matas as like weak side roamer. I will throw your shot into the third row. I can jump start transition opportunities there versus we need you to guard Kawhi tonight. Like I don't want that for him. And so even within that infrastructure, I'd much rather see. Let's get a coral in. It could be 22 minute starter. It could be the Keith Bogan's thing if you want to go all the way back. But I would probably want him in the starting line to take on those assignments. Hit corner threes, cut and then get out of the way.
- [75:30]
A
I don't mind that. I mean, I thought you were gonna, I thought you were gonna nominate IO which I, I would be fine with too. Yeah, I mean, I don't know what else to say. I like their guards, particularly if I.O. and Trey Jones are backup guards. I think that's like a good floor for reserve units. Like you're going to be competent. Their shot selection is a plus. Plus. You can't argue with how Billy Donovan coaches the team. They run like all hell. I think they were first in pace or second in pace. They took a ton of threes, a ton of shots at the rim. They don't make a ton of shots at the rim. They were one of the worst finishing teams in the league. But they take them and they take the fewest mid range shots in the league. So, you know, good for them. I just don't like. I know Giddy popped and I like Josh Giddy fine. I defended the trade and I defended the contract. I didn't love the trade, but I didn't think it was like this crazy disaster of a trade that people made it out to be. And I thought the contract is fine. You know, obviously there are questions of like, he's got to have the ball. Can you, can you create an offense where he can shift from on ball to off ball in a way that's so dynamic that defenses can't just load up when he doesn't have the ball, can't load into the paint? I'm a little skeptical of that, but it's, it's. That's the coaching staff's job and the player's job. I Just like, I don't, I don't see like a, I think they were 20th in offense last year. Like, I don't really see a world where they suddenly pop to like 12th in offense. I just, I just don't see the talent there. And so I just don't know. Like, I love Bouzelis. He's got such a nasty streak to his game. I can't wait to see what he does with more on ball reps this year. He's got a nice little floater touch. He's got a little like hesitation, hit you with the shoulder, get to the rim kind of thing to his game. I just don't know. They, I, I don't, I don't, I don't like the roster. I, I'm, I think they will win fewer than 39 games this year.
- [77:17]
C
That's fair. Like, I think I agree with you in that Montas. Bruce Ellis is the story for this Bulls season, like, how much growth he displays on either end of the floor, but offensively in particular. I was thinking about this earlier as I was gathering notes and stuff and I was like, he's, he reminds me so much of Jalen Johnson with the way that he attacks. It's one of those, like, the handle is good enough, it's a low cross and then he may not blow by you on the drive, but he is taking you with him on these drives. He's able to use those shoulders and create space that way. And obviously he'll dunk on your head if he has enough of a Runway. And so leaning into more of that and seeing like what kind of passing growth we see from him, I think it's going to be fun. I think that's why I applaud Billy Donovan for speeding this team up last year. Like, I think the Josh Giddy trade obviously accentuated that need, but giving, getting the reigns in that rain in that front help them. And I think Mata should be able to thrive within that kind of up tempo situation. So I think the pathway to good offense is going to be, as you already mentioned, the shot profile stuff, it's just going to be a volume deal, I think more than anything. Like if Josh Giddey is able to build on the second half of last year where he shot the leather off the ball, like that part matters less to me because I don't know how sustainable that is. And even if it is, we're still probably a year away before defenses actually change how they want to guard them.
- [78:30]
A
I was going to say, but all the, the shooting the letter off the ball was wide open off ball threes, which are important shots for him to make because Kobe White's going to have the ball a lot. Jones, the Sunu Bouzelis, they all need reps on the ball and that's going to be the challenge for Josh. Giddy is like he shot very well on catch two threes. They were massively wide open. That's the first step that's important. Defenses are not going to care and he's not going to take enough of those shots I think for it to really matter. But maybe that changes this year because he is going to have to. Again, I said this when they signed to a contract. There's this very sort of extreme polarized idea that like either you have to hand the entire offense to Josh Giddey and like, well, if he's the 16th best number one ball handler in the league, like where is that actually getting you as a team? Or he's totally useless off the ball and there has to be a happy medium where he can alternate between those two roles in a way that is productive for the team. One way to do that is to play fast and so you don't have to get into those kind of possessions. But I do think that's an interesting puzzle. Like use him as a screener and then he flies out and catches the ball on the move. Like they've just got to introduce a little bit more of that because it can't be either total ball dominance or total stationary off ball stagnancy.
- [79:45]
C
Yeah, like I think to that end, like they mixed in some screening stuff for him last year. Like that volume could perk up a little bit more. Like I think that kind of builds into the overall physicality bump that we saw from him in the second half of last year because it was the shooting but it was also not quite rim attempts. But I am using my shoulders a little bit more to get a dribble more into the paint and he's a.
- [80:04]
A
Good, he's a good floater shooter. He's an efficient floater range shooter. He's big. I just would like to see him defend and rebound with or defend and, and with a little more effort. But yeah, I don't know, you seem like you have a little more hope for this team than I do.
- [80:19]
C
Like, not really like and Steve will tell you, like, I've been very frustrated with just the overall direction of the Chicago Bulls for multiple years on end at this point. But like I, I can see how they get to average offense. Like am I going to. I mean, I don't bet anyway, but if I'm. Am I going to bank on it? Like, probably not. Like, I think I am more with you that I don't think this team is going to be very good. But I do think the pathway is there, especially if you do get continued interior growth from Giddy. You get more from Matas Bouzelis, which I'm just very excited about. Matas. He is good and he is going to be very good and soon. But I think that's kind of your pathway. Like, for me with Chicago, it is. See what you get from those young guys. Can we get Vuch to insert team that want center help in the playoff push and let's do it one more time in the lottery if we can. Like, that's the direction I would take.
- [81:08]
A
One more time. They barely even. They act like they. They don't even know the lottery exists. And this is the team that got lucky in the Derrick Rose lottery. At some point. This is all cute stuff and I love bozelas and all that. At some point, Like, Bulls. Bulls fans now hear you just said the word average. That's all they are. That's all they've aspired to be. They have no pathway to be anything but that. Bulls fans are so tired of that. They are the most unhappy fan base in the NBA. And I don't even think it's close. Like, even if this season goes bad in Sacramento, the Beam team was still relatively recent. And they're so used to just gross incompetence that I don't think they're, like, more dejected than angry. The Bulls fans hate their team, and I understand why. And the only way this amounts to anything in the next three to five years is a massive injection of talent, either through free agency or draft lottery luck. Like, if neither of those two things happens, they're just there. I just don't really know where this goes. They still have Benny the Bulldo and the Legend and a great starting and starting starting lineup. Intro theme. Okay, one last team. This is maybe one of the more mysterious teams in the league to me. The Memphis grizzlies, who won 48 games last year and had like the sixth best point differential in the entire NBA, which you wouldn't know considering they could never beat any good teams. They were like 14 and 25 against winning teams. They collapsed at the end of the season. They were so unhappy. They fired their very good coach. Like with four games left or something in the entire season, nine games left, whatever it was and now Tuamas Isolo is there. They had a really weird, like, no pick and roll offense, a bunch of cuts. No LaRoche is involved. Like, okay, we decide we don't like that, we're going to run something else. And now they have all these big men that are injured with various timetables. Jaren Jackson Jr. Brandon Clark, Zach, Edie. Jaren Jackson is the closest one to coming back. Bane gone. KCP in, drafted Cedric Coward, signed Ty Jerome, Got a bunch of deep bench guys who I like and they're, you know, like, Vince Williams barely played last year. Gigi Jackson barely played last year. Kanchar barely plays and any year and is like decent when he plays. I don't know how they're going to handle this. Three centers are all out and it's just going to be a ton of Landale involved early, Jock Lando involved early in the season. I just do know that Jalen Wells, great rookie year. Scottie Pippen Jr. Great backup guard. A lot of guys. This team tends to win a lot of regular season games when Ja and Jaren are healthy. Long term, they have a. They still have leftover picks from the Bane trade and they have those two foundational guys. They just need one of those guys. They need John Morant to be the player they hoped John Morant would be. Like a second team all NBA kind of guy, a perennial all NBA candidate, and he just hasn't been. That guy is finishing at the rim. His free throws all dipped last year. But this team, it's. It's a weird. It's just a weird mix of dudes. And I don't, I don't know how they're going to use this year. Like, they're one of those. If they get off to a bad start, is this. Does this become a gap year kind of thing for them where a guy's injuries, timetables sort of extend indefinitely and they start losing games? Like, I just don't know what to make of this group.
- [84:38]
C
Yeah, like, I think that's where they're in a unique position because I think they could play it that way because as you mentioned, they do just have a bunch of interesting young dudes that they can lean into if they feel like, all right, let's just see what this is. And just quickly, I know Ja had the ankle tweak during like a practice or something. Unsure if he's going to be ready for the regular season opener. Like, he has downplayed that.
- [84:56]
A
This is what I'm. This is what I mean, week to week Always makes me nervous. As an injury designation.
- [85:01]
C
He hit us all with the day tweaking when people were angsty about it. So I'm assuming he's going to be ready for the opener, but we'll see. But I think for me, with this Grizzlies group, obviously they're going to need John Jaren if they want to hit the high end, but I am kind of intrigued by what this team's going to look like schematically. Like you mentioned all the changes that they went through last year in this year, at least for what you can read from preseason, it's felt like a leaning on off ball movement. We don't have our primary creators right now, so let's make sure we are setting up off the off ball screens to make sure these guys are catching the ball on the move and then from there like this is still a very good spacing slash respace group and so they have ways to generate shots. They do have decent shooters on the roster, which again, for as much as you can take away from preseason, it has been cool to watch Kentavius, Caldwell Pope hit shots again because I don't know what happened in Orlando last year, but it was cool to see the ball go in the basket with the various good looks that he got so far during preseason. But like they're doing the kind of process things that I generally enjoy. Space well, we're going to screen well, we're going to screen early, we're going to get the ball up the floor early, we're going to drive and spray and so like they feel like a team, especially if job misses like the first week or two of the season or something, that opposing groups are going to come in like, all right, we can beat them and then they're going to be down 12 at halftime because the Grizzlies have run all over the place and you're like, wait a minute, what's happening right now? So like I I don't trust her. I don't doubt that the effort's going to be there like similar to these other teams we talked about. I want to see what the defense looks like because they are still very much leaning into full court pressure. Jalen Wells is going to do it. Scottie Pippen JR is going to do it. It's more so what are these bigs behind it going to do? Like Jock Lando at the levels have been fine during preseason, but I don't know what that's going to look like during the regular season. Santee Aldama is an Experience. He is one of my favorite role players in the league.
- [86:53]
A
Are you ready? Are you ready for center Santi Aldama for the first couple of weeks of the season?
- [86:57]
C
Now and then on one end of the floor. Yes. Do not want to talk about the other end, but I am excited for say, good passer, good shooter.
- [87:06]
A
Santi's a good player.
- [87:07]
B
He's.
- [87:07]
C
He's good. But yeah, the defense is gonna scare me a little bit. So more than anything, how quickly can Jaren get back to help neutralize some of the defense stuff? But offensively, I think they're just gonna generate good shots.
- [87:20]
A
Well, they know who they are. They run like all hell. They were first in pace last year, which makes sense for with Morant. Their bench is, is good. Like Scottie Pippen Jr. And Ty Jerome coming off the bench is like, that's some real, some real stuff. They're physical and they get good offense. They get tons of offensive rebounds. They're the D team, the floater team of the NBA. They produce the most floaters and they make the most and they're very good at it. I just worry about the big man depth. I just, I. I just am interested in them going forward and, and how they use this year to. To inform them of what their next steps should be. I mean, they were plus 11 per 100 possessions last year with Ja and Jaren on the floor together. Like, that's crazy in a year that felt like it was such a disaster that they were so good with their best guys on the floor. And I thought I had Jaren third team all NBA last year. I don't think. I think he fell off at the end. I thought that was unfair. I thought he had a third team all NBA season.
- [88:12]
C
I am so glad you said this. The literal thing I was going to say before we move to a different Grizzlies point or wherever we're going to go with the conversation. I have never seen someone's all NBA and all defensive campaign get tanked in like three weeks the way Jaren's got. And I was just like, we can't be that reactionary the end of season.
- [88:33]
A
Sure we can. It's easy. Try it sometime.
- [88:35]
C
It's too easy. I'm just like, we can't ignore all of the good stuff that Jaren did because the last three weeks, a month were as long and it was bad. But to your point, it just felt unfair. It was a wild thing to witness in real time.
- [88:49]
A
I mean, I don't really have a lot of profound to say about this team, to me, their ceiling is they're a play in team. I don't see them cracking the top six. It is possible one of those older teams like Clippers, Warriors, Lakers, whoever, sort of takes a bunch of injuries and underperforms and the door cracks open. I don't see that. But there's no shame in that. It's more what, what, how do they use this year if it goes sideways and how do we come out thinking about, okay, we got off this three big salary model because we didn't think it was working well enough. Recouped a bunch of picks. We already used two of them partly to get Coward. How does he look first of all? And at the end, what do we think we need to do? And the, the options are just like, maybe this just doesn't work at all and we completely move in a different direction. Maybe we need a different kind of third guy. I don't know. But I'm interested to see. They're going to play really hard. They're going to be a pain in the ass and I think they're going to be a fun team to watch. They generally are a fun team to watch.
- [89:45]
C
Yeah.
- [89:46]
A
By the way, Pelicans, one thing we didn't talk about with the Pelicans, I just want to throw this out there. Why did they go to Australia? Like what, what were they doing? And they played two random preseason games against bad Australian teams. They were there for like a few days and they came back. Was it supposed to be like a Dyson Daniels thing? Whoops. I heard they were supposed to be there longer, originally planned and then they just cut it short. Like of all the things to do to. And when that game, when those games were announced, I was like, oh, I didn't know the NBA added like a preseason thing like they're doing in China and Abu Dhabi. And I was like, oh no, that's not an NBA thing. The Pelicans just went on their own to Australia for some reason. I just don't want to add that level of jet lag. Nothing against Australia. I'm dying to visit. I just don't want to add that level of jet lag to my preseason schedule, that's all. Okay. Last thing. I have so far, picked the following awards. Okay, these are. It's folly. It's folly to make these picks. This is just fun. Coach of the year, Quinn Snyder. Most improved Player AS Sar Thompson. Most valuable Player Nicola Jokic. I have defensive player, rookie of the year and sixth man left to do. I wanted to do six man with you today because I know you're diving into like rotations and what bench player might actually be elevated into a starting role for too much of the season to end up being eligible for this award? That's like maybe DeAndre Hunter, Norm Powell, we'll see. And defensive player of the year and rookie of the year are the most boring to me. So I, I made. I have a tentative six man of the year pick, but I want you to lead off.
- [91:14]
C
Okay. So you told me about this and I was talking about this a little bit before we hopped on. I was like, I had to like rein myself in because I am very good on. Let's get this big list. Let's map out some possibilities. Let's whittle down this list. That's how you do it.
- [91:26]
B
That's the best way to do it.
- [91:27]
A
You got to be open to all like who saw Ty Jerome come in last year.
- [91:31]
C
That's true. That is true. And so I, I have limited my list to. I have five top candidates and I have like a list of. I have a three person list for keeping an eye out on. So after doing a bunch of whittling down, I guess it's.
- [91:44]
A
It go through the five, go through the.
- [91:45]
C
Okay, so the top guys, I guess it's just Boston as a concept because I just do not know who is starting between Peyton Pritchard and Anthony Simons. Josh Hart in New York, because I do believe Mike Brown is just going to lean into double big to start PJ Washington in Dallas, which could open up an entire conversation of what is this Mavs team going to be this year from Atlanta if they are going to go with Chris Stops and Jalen Johnson as you're starting front court. And Tari Eason in Houston who has just kind of been a two way off the bench monster when he's been healthy. Very wild complimentary player but like very good. And so like those are kind of the, I guess technically the six names that I'm looking at heading into the year.
- [92:25]
A
So interestingly I'm poker facing this completely. So no DeAndre Hunter because he's starting to open the season with Garland and Streushert. Norm Powell, same deal. No of the incumbent candidates, Nas Reed not mentioned. And Ty Jerome not mentioned. I think Simons is going to be the one in Boston that will come off the bench at least to start the year and then you have to worry about him. You know, does he get traded in the middle of the year as a salary dump or something. And if you go To a bad. You don't win this award on a bad team. Like, everyone would put on us. Talk about like Cam Whitmore. So you just. You don't win this award on a bad team.
- [93:04]
C
Yeah.
- [93:06]
A
One of your five guys now. I ultimately made a pick. I have my nominee that I think I'm gonna pick. You named him in your five finalists, but I want to hear who you are ultimately. Like, you have to make a pick. This is who you're picking.
- [93:20]
C
Got you. I will say quickly first, like, I just blanked on Nas Reid. That was not. I don't think he's going to win it. So he probably just goes to this list as well. Like, he's just been too good for too long. So just.
- [93:31]
A
It is. He's such a perennial candidate for this that your brain is almost prone to forget him in some ways.
- [93:38]
B
Yeah.
- [93:38]
C
So he's very good. So that was not. Apologies to Wolves fans early on, but it kind of feels like a Josh Hart year because this feels like this could be Nick's one seed type beat and like I would also be cool with a six man of the year winner that isn't just top of the league in bench scoring. Because one of the things that has annoyed me for years is it is just sort by points award on good team versus like defense mattering or literally anything else.
- [94:05]
A
Look, you're. You're preaching to the guy who said it was a crime. It is. It wasn't is a crime against basketball that Andre Iguodala did not win six man of the year when he was with the Warriors.
- [94:16]
C
Iguodala should have one. I think Joe Ingles should have the Jordan Clarkson one. We could. We could have a side conversation about that. But yeah, I think Eileen, Josh Hartford. This one.
- [94:26]
A
I like it. It's a good pick. We think similarly in terms of. I'd like to see a different player type win this award. I went. I guess I'm just all Hawks because I went Onyeka Kongwu.
- [94:39]
C
I like it.
- [94:40]
A
He had a great finish to last year. He's becoming a versatile enough offensive player that he's going to play the five and the four for them this year. I think he's going to be like a sixth starter and play tons of minutes and have to do tons of different things on both sides of the ball well for this team to hit their ceiling. Played differently when he was. He's at the 5 versus when he's at the 4 and I think if he hits, he's just going to be one of Those players that people talk about is like in January like the real X factor behind the Hawks hot start is this guy. So I went with him. I also want to give just I want to I'm. I might be unreasonably excited given how deep and crazy good the team is. I'm really interested to see what I see from Casen Wallace this year. He's one of like the top. I've got my eye on this guy because I just think there's a lot more hidden in there that just doesn't get to come out on that team. And depending on how they approach the regular season and their health and his role and his how he starts a season, if we got to the end of the season it's like OK so Wallace averaged like 14 points a game off the bench for the Thunder and played his usual just annoying as all hell defense. And as a candidate for this award I would not be so surprised.
- [95:52]
C
I am glad you said this. Like I literally in my notes I have Alex Caruso slash Casen Wallace slash Isaiah Joe who is always just a plus minus monster and the Ghost screens for Shay and all that good stuff. But I I am curious to see how OKC manages the regular season. They're just gonna pump out wins but like what the actual minute distribution is going to be interesting to me. Also on the keeping an eye out list, I will toss this to you as a question. How do we feel about Keldon Johnson?
- [96:18]
A
He's on my long list but I just don't. I think there are too many questions about his fit with the core players on the team for me to put him in the inner circle. He's always sort of hovering around like my 10th, 12th kind of person on this list. But he's a he is a guy who a he could definitely be traded because the spurs have a salary crunch coming that it feels like one of him and Sohan is going to be a we can't afford to have you on your next deal or your current deal in Keldon Johnson's case deal trade coming. But he's also kind of like if the spurs actually outperform expectations it's part of the reason is going to be Keldon Johnson finally has the year where he shoots like 38% from three and rounds out his game a little bit. He's an he's a very important swing player for them.
- [97:03]
C
Yeah. And last question I'll toss to you from my list because again I just blanked on Nas Reid but do we think there's going to be any kind of like voting split between Nas Reed and Dante D. Vincenzo, assuming that they continue to start Mike Conley.
- [97:16]
A
That's, that's the assumption. There is. Interesting, because I could see a world where that changes and Dante DiVincenzo is a starter for part of the year. I just think Nas Reed is just, he's like the big man version of the guards who win this award all the time. Like, he's just a perfect six man of the year candidate. He's really good. He's a fantastically versatile offensive player. The other guy I wanted to give a little love to, I don't think he'll score enough to even enter this conversation and maybe even play enough minutes. It's a big Anthony Black year for the Orlando Magic. He's also near the top of my keeping an eye on list. Now we're just naming guys. Nikais, we're starting to name guys. Just starting to name Obi Toppin, TJ McConnell, Caris Lavert. His name's Malik Monk. Let's name some more guys. What day does do you guys record? What days do you guys record? What's your schedule at the Dunker Spot Podcast for Yahoo.
- [98:06]
C
Ah, yes, we are finally back to two episodes a week. So every Tuesday, every Friday is when.
- [98:11]
A
We'Re going to be dropping Tuesdays and Fridays. Always listen. You will learn a lot. Nikais Duncan, congratulations on your success. It's well earned. Enjoy the preseason. You have this brief respite between the WNBA finals and the NBA season which starts very soon. Thank you for giving us a little time today.
- [98:28]
C
Thank you. Ball doesn't sleep and neither do I.
- [98:32]
A
All right, that's it for the Zach Lowe show today. Thank you to Dan Woicke of the Athletic for talking all things Lakers. Thank you to Nikais Duncan of the Dunker Spot, which you should all listen to for talking about a bunch of random teams and some news of the weekend. And we will see you later this week on the Zach Low show, probably Thursday when I get back from Los Angeles. Thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. Thank you to Jesse, Jonathan and Mike on production. We will see you next time. Must be 21 or over in President. Select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-3275-4 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York.