The Zach Lowe Show – Episode Summary: "Thibs Fired: What Now for the Knicks? Plus, a Pacers Deep Dive With Caitlin Cooper and Throwback Thunder Time With Jeff Green and Kendrick Perkins"
Release Date: June 4, 2025

I. Introduction and Episode Overview

In this special Wednesday edition of The Zach Lowe Show, hosted by Zach Lowe from The Ringer, the episode delves into significant NBA developments. The primary discussions revolve around the unexpected firing of Tom Thibodeau as the New York Knicks' head coach, an in-depth analysis of the Indiana Pacers' journey to the NBA Finals with expert insights from Caitlin Cooper, and a nostalgic segment featuring Oklahoma City Thunder alumni Jeff Green and Kendrick Perkins.

II. Tom Thibodeau Fired: Analyzing the Knicks' Decision

Key Topics:

• Unexpected Nature of the Firing:
  Zach Lowe opens the discussion by highlighting the surprising decision to terminate Tom Thibodeau's contract, which still had $30 million remaining, following the Knicks' most successful season in decades.

• Thibodeau’s Track Record:
  Thibodeau, boasting a career winning percentage of .579 (tied with Erik Spoelstra), was recognized as a successful coach. Despite leading the Knicks to the Eastern Conference Finals—the first in 25 years—the decision to part ways was not entirely unforeseen.

  Zach Lowe (12:34): "He was firing it is out after five years as the Knicks head coach. Surprising? Maybe. Shocking? Not so much."

• Front Office Dynamics:
  The firing is interpreted as a statement from the Knicks' front office, particularly James Dolan, indicating that the team may not feel championship-ready despite recent successes.

  Zach Lowe (18:55): "It's a statement that we don't think we are as close to being a championship team as the cliché two wins from the finals would typically indicate."

• Coaching Instability in the NBA:
  Lowe contextualizes the firing within the broader NBA landscape, noting that even successful coaches with high winning percentages can face termination, citing examples like Mike Brown and Doc Rivers.

• Future Implications for the Knicks:
  Discussions center on the challenges the Knicks will face in hiring a new coach capable of elevating the team to the next level without causing further instability.

  Zach Lowe (45:22): "You need to nail the hire because the pressure is going to be on. You've said conference finals is not good enough."

III. Indiana Pacers Deep Dive with Caitlin Cooper

Guest: Caitlin Cooper, BasketballSheWrote Patreon Contributor

Key Topics:

• Pacers as NBA Finals Underdogs:
  Caitlin Cooper provides an expert analysis of the Indiana Pacers' unexpected rise to the NBA Finals, positioning them as significant underdogs against the formidable Oklahoma City Thunder.

  Caitlin Cooper (30:44): "They are helping from very odd locations at times. They're able to get away with gambles."

• Defensive Strategies Against the Thunder:
  Cooper breaks down the Thunder's unconventional defense, emphasizing their high-pressure tactics and how they disrupt opposing offenses with aggressive help defense.

  Caitlin Cooper (33:08): "They are helping from very odd locations at times. They are helping from roles that not every other team does."

• Pacers' Offensive Prowess:
  Highlighting the Pacers' exceptional shooting from all areas of the court, Cooper discusses how the team can exploit the Thunder's defensive vulnerabilities, particularly through corner three-pointers and smart passing strategies led by Tyrese Haliburton.

  Caitlin Cooper (53:38): "The Pacers are an incredible shooting team. They are an elite shooting team and the Thunder give up tons of threes."

• Matchup Analysis:
  Detailed examination of key player matchups, including how the Thunder's Josh Hart and Chet Holmgren will fare against Pacers' Pascal Siakam and the overall pick-and-roll dynamics.

  Caitlin Cooper (37:31): "I think Siakam is going to be a big linchpin on both ends of the floor, but especially offensively."

• Predictions and Key Factors:
  Cooper outlines pivotal moments and strategies that could dictate the outcome of the series, emphasizing the importance of converting high-percentage shots and maintaining defensive intensity.

  Caitlin Cooper (48:19): "They can put Miles Turner at the top of the key... That feels like an optimum place for the Pacers."

IV. Throwback Thunder Time with Jeff Green and Kendrick Perkins

Guests:

• Jeff Green, Former Oklahoma City Thunder Player
• Kendrick Perkins, Former Oklahoma City Thunder Player and ESPN Analyst

Key Topics:

• Memories from the Thunder Era:
  Jeff Green reminisces about pivotal moments during his tenure with the Oklahoma City Thunder, including the 2010 playoff run against the Los Angeles Lakers and the emotional experiences surrounding the franchise's move from Seattle.

  Jeff Green (69:20): "It was amazing to be a part of. I think it was the stepping stone of, you know, where we could be and how special we could be."

• Relationship with Teammates:
  Both Green and Perkins discuss their close-knit relationships with former teammates like Russell Westbrook and Kevin Durant, reflecting on the camaraderie and struggles faced together.

  Kendrick Perkins (83:31): "I believe we definitely would have made it back to the finals."

• Impact of Trades and Team Changes:
  Perkins delves into the dynamics that led to Kevin Durant's departure from the Thunder and the subsequent shifts within the team, highlighting how these changes affected team chemistry and performance.

  Kendrick Perkins (94:27): "He wanted his own team all along. So when I hollered at James, I'm like, James, what you think? He was like, nah, I want the max."

• Nostalgia and Current Views:
  Both guests express their enduring connection to Oklahoma City, despite having moved on from the team, and share anecdotes that capture the spirit and growth of the franchise over the years.

  Kendrick Perkins (82:14): "It's like a big family reunion, man. And the love that you feel."

• Future Aspirations:
  Jeff Green discusses his plans to continue his NBA career, aspiring to retire with the Houston Rockets, while Perkins shares his transition into a media role and how it intersects with his past experiences.

  Jeff Green (79:48): "My wife says 20 and that's it. So two more years it is, you know, making it 20."

V. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Zach Lowe wraps up the episode by emphasizing the unpredictability and excitement of the upcoming NBA Finals. He encourages listeners to stay tuned for further analysis and shares his own predictions, expressing respect for both the Indiana Pacers and the Oklahoma City Thunder.

Zach Lowe (104:47): "We'll see. Maybe the faces will surprise us."

The episode provides a comprehensive exploration of current NBA narratives, offering listeners expert insights, nostalgic reflections, and thoughtful analysis of team dynamics and future prospects.

Notable Quotes

• Zach Lowe:

  "You can't tell me otherwise. He did a good job." ([Discussion on Thibs' performance])

• Caitlin Cooper:

  "They are leaving just a pile of organizational existential crises behind them." ([On Pacers' impact])

• Jeff Green:

  "One rebound away from, I think, pushing it to game seven." ([Recounting playoff moments])

• Kendrick Perkins:

  "They are helping from very odd locations at times." ([Thunder's defensive strategies])

This summary encapsulates the key discussions and insights from The Zach Lowe Show episode, providing a thorough overview for listeners and fans seeking to understand the intricacies of NBA team decisions, playoff strategies, and the emotional journeys of former players.