B (3:02)

What's up man? I'm good, I'm good. I'm, I'm looking forward to this round. The first round was wild, but this round's going to be even better.

A (3:10)

Yeah, we, we, we weeded out some of the chaff or whatever the phrase is and now we're getting to brass tacks to use another I just combined a lot Shays all in one. I'm really off to a great start today this morning. Spurs Wolves, Game one. You know I warned Bill on Sunday, underestimate the Minnesota Timberwolves at your peril. This is just a tough ass team that raises its game in the playoffs every year. The conference finals appearances are not a fluke. Now that said, did I pick them to win this series? I did not. I picked spurs in six. I flirted with spurs in seven. And I just thought I don't know what we're seeing from I.O. if anything, I don't know what we're going to see from Ant even if he plays in game one. And I thought he was kind of like in decoy mode for a lot of game one until the fourth quarter when he heated up a little bit and actually looked it up. It was his, his like fifth lowest pick and roll frequency of the Entire season or 10th lowest? 10th lowest. He only ran 10 pick and rolls the whole game. 10th lowest frequency of the season per possession. And so I was like, I just, I don't know. I don't even. Shenzel is already out. And then they go into San Antonio and just tooth and nail the whole game. Pull away a little bit at the end and survive. Boy, if that Champagne shot goes in at the buzzer legs we are talking about. Julianne Champagne gets three offensive rebounds at about 30 seconds. Two of them are Ant, just not boxing them out and throws away an inbounds pass After a Devin Vasilva deflection. That is kind of ants fault. It was, it was probably not throwing high enough. But also the Wolves gave him just literally one potential pass to make on the play. And then the spurs don't call timeout. Champagne, he gets a great look and it misses. And here we are, Wolves up one. Oh, I want to start with the no timeout. What did you think of that decision and the shot that they got?

B (5:01)

You know, I don't like it and it's, you know, I just always go by kind of like my own mentality on that. So it looked like luck to me and I froze it a couple of times. It's somewhere in the 7.5 second range. Like stats about where it would be by the time the timeout was called. When they secured the rebound to me, like that's, that falls directly into the range where you call timeout. Like if you've got 13, 14 seconds, I'm more inclined to play on because it gives you a chance at multiple options and actions. You don't have to just take the very first look you get with seven and a half seconds. That's the shot you're going to have to take. Now look, he did get a great shot off. So the end of the day it worked out pretty well for them. And I think they're going to live with Champagne taking that shot to win the game. You know, Mitch Johnson would sign up for that, but I personally was seven and a half. You take time out, you advance it. I just like having more control as a coach to be able to initiate the action that I want to force the reaction that I want defensively to give me, put the ball in the hands of the guys. I want hopefully in the places on the court that they can operate and maybe have even more than one opportunity because you usually have a counter in there if they defend something well, as opposed to seven and a half play on, it's going to be one shot at this. It's going to be the first half decent look you get and he got a good shot. So you know that. And the people that are going to, I guess, you know, stick with Mitch Johnson's decision, ride or die because they're spurs fans or whatever are going to say, hey, you got a great shot. That's true. You did get off a good look. I personally, it's a preference thing, man. I personally in that time range I'm taking time out because I think as a coach I, that's a, I feel like that's my Responsibility to help them in that situation have an opportunity because of what we draw up, to get the ball in the best place on the floor in the hands of the guy that I want it to. And that to me, if you could dictate that you do it again, you get up 10, 12, 13, 15, 18 seconds, you know, 20 seconds, maybe you play on to not allow them to organize their defense in a huddle. Seven and a half. For me, that's a timeout. But they got a good look, man, you can't really fault that champagne. It's a tougher shot, you know, going directly left like that, you're going to drift a little bit. And it ended up a little bit short, but it's a clean look from a really good three point shooter.

A (7:28)

Yeah, it's a great shot. And to your point, like, you'd sign up for that. And I think what, what I hear you say and what I thought was you'd sign up for that same shot if you got it after calling timeout and advancing the ball, if that's the one shot you end up with, you're okay with it. That said, I expected them to call timeout. I kind of think Dylan Harper and Wembanyama both kind of expected Mitch Johnson to call timeout and then he didn't. And if you freeze it, if you. And again, Harper grabs the rebound at 8.1. So you're right. Like when he lands and calls him out, it's probably seven and a half champagne Mrs. The shot. And I was looking for everyone's reaction afterwards. And you can see Bissell under the rim shrug and then make a quick timeout gesture with his hand. Like, I don't. I thought we were going to call a timeout. And to your point, like, you know, I think Mitch Johnson's thought on it is probably like, that's exactly the kind of shot that emerges in chaos. Like guys are just running around trying to find people and like something boom, pops open as the waves are crashing all around. You get a great shot, you give the Wolves a chance to set their defense. Maybe they bring Gobert back into the game, maybe they don't. But we might not get as clean a look. They're going to switch everything, whatever it is. But to your point, you also, I just think, open up more chances to get fouled. And you're only down two more chances to get an offensive rebound. But I can't really take issue with it because they got a great shot. And if that shot goes in a lot of the discourse today, Is a, what a ballsy decision by Mitch Johnson not to call timeout and it paid off. And B, I think there would have been like between the Champagne offensive rebounds, the thrown away inbounds pass and just the general ineptitude from the free throw line, it would have been a pretty catastrophic loss for Minnesota. And A like, boy, we had a chance to steal game one at the under as the underdog and we blew it in the end. And it's like it would have almost felt like was that the whole, the whole series right there given their injury and their health status. But it's not. They win the game. It felt like a feel out game to me. Even more than a typical game. One more than Sixers, Knicks, which we'll talk about feel out in the sense of like you'd see glimpses of Wemby guarding, not Gobert, not Randall, like he's over here on Jalen Clark one possession. They're kind of in his own a little bit and I think they're trying to figure out what do we want to do with him. Particularly Wingo Bears out of the game. You could see Ant trying to feel his way back into just like high level playoff basketball. I mentioned his pick and rolls being way down in this game. Is he just kind of feeling his way back into the fourth quarter? He goes, I think you can see Randle kind of like, all right, let me see who they're going to switch on me and if they're going to hedge, if they're going to double or if I can actually just sit here and pick out like, okay, I'd rather have Devin Vassell on me than Steph Castle. Let me call that screen up. I'd rather have Mike Conley on me then Castle, let me go or not my Conley, you know, Dylan Harper on me then Castle let me call that screen up. And are they going to hedge? Are they going to trap? And on that awesome shot that he made to put them up six, I think with 50 seconds left he has Vassell on him. And you can see Ant calling for the ball on the block. I think against Dylan Harper and Chris Finch is like, ant, get out of the way. Julius Randall's like, ant, get out of the way. I like this matchup. And it's like, all right, I guess I'll get out of the way. So it felt like kind of a feel out game. But let's start here. Wemby plays the third most minutes of his entire career. Any all games playoff regular season and the first the top one is like a double overtime game. I think 5 of 17. Oh of 8 from 3 has 12 blocks, which is just comical when you look at it in the box score. And as Chris Finch pointed out, Chris Finch with his like just, just twists it. And Everest is like, okay, a couple uncalled goaltends. Yeah, just we'd like.

B (11:14)

We look passive aggressive. But I was right. He was right.

A (11:17)

I think it was aggressive. Aggressive. He's like, couple on call goaltends. We'd like to have those points back. We could use them.

B (11:22)

Yeah.

A (11:23)

What. How did they. How did they guard Wembanyama and what can the spurs do in game two to get him unlocked a little bit?

B (11:31)

They did against Wembanyama what every team hopes to do that doesn't necessarily have the personnel to do it or the commitment to do it. And you can do it more in the playoffs than you can in the regular season. And that is jam him up, up into his torso, up into his hips, on his catches, on any type of activity where he catches it anywhere on the wing, close to the three point line where he hasn't put it down yet. And they were able to get up under his space. So his first step was basically negated in this game. And he had it a couple of times and he had a couple in the open floor. He was able to take it all the way into the rim. But for the most part, his ability to be able to catch, turn face square up and he likes to do a little pump fake sometimes swing through. In that first stride, he's basically almost at the rim from anywhere on the court because of his length. He didn't get any of that stuff. And I felt like this couple of the threes he rushed, you know, look, this is a, this is a young player. They've advanced through one round. This was going to be a much bigger test. Is a much more physical team. It's not shocking that he would rush a couple of those looks that he got that potentially change your night. You know, he makes a couple of threes early, he's going to feel like he's in a different rhythm. And we've seen him kind of get into that mode where he's now, now catching shooting from all over the floor. You've got a totally different problem on your hands because there's not a lot you're going to do to contrast those once it's going because of where he's releasing it from. He didn't any of that. So. And I thought he rushed it early. It looked like, you know, he wanted it to happen a little badly, too much when he caught the ball. But the, the places they forced him to on the court, where they were when he caught the ball, the extent to which they were jamming him up. So he didn't have space initially to do anything with the ball. I thought it was really good. And I don't know if it's as much of a game plan as it is just a personal intent on whoever is in his space, whoever's guarding. That's really what we're talking about. I don't think it was as much, oh, we're going to reinvent the wheel against Victor Weyama and here's what we're going to do. No, it's just a matter of commitment, personnel and the physical strength to get it done against him. And I thought it factored into this. If he hits a couple shots early, even though they would have been tough shots, threes, maybe it changes his night. Maybe, you know, he feels a little bit more like the basket's bigger than it was. And he never really strung that together in the entire game. He had a massive impact on the game because of his defense. But his offense, his offense, you know, left so much to be desired. It was, it was tough in this game for them to overcome it. By the way, real quick, I just wanted to tag that last possession was something that I was thinking of last night. One of the reasons, Zachary, with this particular personnel that I would like to call timeout in that situation because of Victor we Llama's length, you can basically draw something up to almost guarantee you're going to be able to get a catch from the out of bounds at the elbow. And that is where in that situation you put the defense in such a tough spot because you know, they're there. He's, he can make a quick move, one dribble, get to the line. He's got two free throws. In that situation, you know, catching it there the way you'd have to kind of play the paint and play the edge of the lane, maybe, maybe there's a three point shot coming out of it. So I just think, you know, because sometimes the seven and a half seconds you're like, man, you know, where are we going to inbound the ball? Where's it going to be caught if someone's running out toward half court to catch the inbounds? Well, now you got a tough possession on your hands, but with him, a weapon like that on any type of, if it's a baseline out of bounds, Sideline, out of bounds. I pretty much guaranteed I can get the ball where I want it on the catch because nobody can really stop him from catching the ball. So I just wanted to add that point. But I thought overall, Minnesota showed you what your first comment was. Their toughness, their strength, and a team that was like, ready for this challenge. And it was certainly not Victor Wembanyama's best. And he's got to take a look at the film and see how he can be better in catching the ball in spots where he is better, because I thought most of the time he was not doing that. And it really is what led to such an inefficient shooting night.

A (15:54)

Couple of things stick out to me. Unlike a lot of teams who try to put wings on Wembanyama like Portland did in the first round and get up under him, the Wolves are just kind of not built to do that. And they're just like, we're going to guard you with Gobert and Julius Randle, and those are our most physical guys and our best matchups against you. And so we don't have to monkey around with the matchups as much. And I think that helped them go. Bear also also beasted him for a couple of offensive rebounds and Nas Reed snuck around him for a big offensive rebound and put back in the second half, like, got to clean up that a little bit. At the same time, you know, I just to to your point about like playing with more force and more decisiveness. Like, they ran a lot of their pet actions for him where they have a guard, set a screen for him in the corner and he pop any kind of curls out of that. And they usually do it with either Vassell because he's their best shooter, or whoever has the littlest guy on him so that you can't switch it. And I just again feeling out game. I thought Wemby, his approach was, I know they're going to shoot the gap on that and go under. I'm just going to kind of curl out to the perimeter, catch the ball and feel it out from there. I like when he aims those harder toward the middle of the floor. So even if you shoot the gap, he's catching it like at the free throw line with some momentum. And if he's at the free throw line, he's literally almost at the rim. And they have a lot of counters for that too. Where, you know, you can like, you can do like Boston does this a lot. You can kind of do like a carousel of pin downs where it's Visell pinning down for him. And then Wemby switches it up and sets a pin pin down for Vassell or Wemby back, cuts it down the baseline. I feel like they're going to approach those. Those are the right. They're aiming at the right places. I just didn't feel like they aimed it with the right ferocity. And the other thing I wonder is. And. And teams that ironically play the Timberwolves have the same dilemma. I actually liked when they just went traditional pick and roll with Wemby, whether Gobert was on him or whether Randle was on him. And I realized you're putting Gobert in the play. And Gobert's best talent is defending two guys by himself on the pick and roll. Just like Wemby's maybe best talent is defending two guys by himself on the pick and roll. But I thought they got good stuff when they just ran like Fox Wemby roll to the rim, suck in the defense. And particularly when Randle is on Wemby. Like, Randle's not going to be able to do anything about that. And you're going to get good shots of it. Ironically, I would like to involve the Minnesota big guys more. And that gets back to. I'm interested in your thoughts on that. But also Fox, I mean, he. He copped to it after the game. He had a horrible game. And it's not just that he missed shots. He had six turnovers, and at least four of them were just completely horrible. Inexcusable, lazy passes, live ball turnovers out of like, just hit aheads where he doesn't see Bones Highland coming. Like the stuff that you just can't have from your veteran guy. But I thought I wanted more Wemby just lob threat Wemby in this matchup. That was just one of my first blush reactions.

B (18:55)

I like that a lot. And I think that that is some of their best action. And I think also it's something that early is going to probably lead to better looks for other people because of the amount of gravity that he has when he sets the screen. And he dodged. And look, sometimes against a physical team, the screen dive isn't necessarily as effective in drawing multiple guys into lane because. Because he can get hit, he can get checked, he can get held up. So he's kind of like slogging his way down the lane in a regular season game or against a weaker defensive team. A lot of nights he can set that dive and it's almost like he's got free run to the Front of the rim. And now it's impossible he's going to throw it to him or guys that are like, guarding the wing shooters are going to see that. And now they're like flying down to the lane because they think they've got a chip on him. And that leads to a quick, like a reversal off of the ball screen from the ball handler to that wing, floating up for a wide open 3. If Wemby is like kind of fighting his way down the lane, you don't have to worry as much about leaving the wing shooters because he's. He's kind of in check and it's like bumper cars in there for him. So I didn't think he had a lot of great free runs that he normally gets in the regular season when he's. He's just causing so many problems with that action. I do agree. It's probably something that they need to clean up with their spacing and how exactly you want to run it against this team now that they've got a game on tape. Mitch Johnson, go look at it and see how exactly they were defending that and why they weren't getting more out of that. Because I do think that's an action that's going to be very important in this series because the one on one stuff with Wemby against who he's being guarded by is just going to be tougher. And I feel like. I feel like, you know, looking at how physical Minnesota is and they are with this team, you do feel like Wemby's going to have to have like an impact from. From deep in this series. Like 0 for 8 obviously is unacceptable, but, you know, is. Is a normal like 2 for 5 the rest of the series going to be enough because I think that's going to be a lot of his space he's going to get against this team is going to be out there and if he doesn't shoot, you know, an efficient number going forward, I do think that could be a problem for the Spurs.

A (21:10)

Yeah. And if he's. If he's going to pop out like that and he's not going to be guarded, he's going to have to make threes. But also like, I think the spurs now will be ready for that. You can just be ready for that. And have Devin Vassell ready to run off a handoff from Wemby if nobody's nearby, he's going to get a great shot. He's the best shooter on your team. I'd set some, like, cross screens for Wembley to Try to get him post ups on the move where, you know, just pick a guard, hammer Wemby's guy, get some separation, get him a catch under the rim and kind of see what happens. Couple other notes from this game. The, the mega lineup from Minnesota, Reed, Randall and GOBERT all together plus 10 in five minutes. They've played 23 minutes in the playoffs so far. They're plus 20 in 23 minutes. It's just something to note, particularly with DiVincenzo and IO out. I just can't say enough about Minnesota. Like, they're down two critical guys, two critical guards. It messes up their entire rotation. Here comes Jalen Clark, Terrence Shannon Jr. Like, one of my favorite things they did in the game was when they put Wembanyama on Terence Shannon. They ran pick and rolls with Taryn Shannon. And we're like, we're going to make you Wemby defend the ball handler in this pick and roll. We're kind of going to spring it on you just once in a while out of nowhere and use Randall maybe as a screener. There was one where Castle was fronting Randall and so Randall just kind of set this super screen where he screened like four people at the same time. And I, I, I thought that was a really smart just bring Wembanyama out of the paint and make him defend like a guard. And ironically, again, the similarities between the two French big guys. The spurs did the same thing to go bear by running pick and rolls with Wembanyama and they had success doing that every time that they did it. I just think this is going to be a really fun chess match. Can't say enough about the wolves. I thought McDaniels was awesome, just the whole game kind of manufacturing buckets. When he got good matchups against him. When the spurs played zone, he'd find a little guard and be like, you know what? I could just shoot right over you. Just like, this Wolves team is so much fun. And they again, no Dante for the rest of the playoffs, no IO last night. And I don't know what you thought of Ant. Like, he played a fine game. He had 18 points. He asserted himself late. Defensively, he was just okay. But, like, clearly he's not 100%. He played 25 minutes and he was kind of floating around, I think, on, on purpose, on offense for a bit. I hope that this is just step one. And by game four of this series, he's ready to play 35 minutes and really explode a little bit because we didn't see Too much of that. But for them to win game one like that is just super impressive.

B (23:47)

Well, listen, I'm going to tell you, and we were calling the game that he got hurt. You know, we were already still kind of sitting there in shock over what happened with DiVincenzo in that game, which, like right in front of us, 90 seconds or whatever into the game, I'm. I'm still shocked that Anthony Edwards is playing because that was such a nasty hyperextension from such a height because there's so much force that he landed with and immediately hyperextends. At the time I was really scared that maybe he had torn an ACL or he had torn some other ligament or whatever and we might not see him again unless it was like, you know, maybe the finals or something. The fact that he's even playing is amazing to me. And look, he was enough of a threat throughout the game. It helps them that he's on the floor. But his real value came in the fact that he is so comfortable in those moments late that are the pivotal moments in the game. And he still was able to manufacture some baskets that had to step back three over Wemby, which was like incredible.

A (24:52)

How awesome was that?

B (24:53)

You can't even see the rim. I mean, with a guy like Wemby out there and you can't see the target and you're going up over the top because it wasn't like he shook Wemby to where Wemby was like 15ft away from him. Wemby was still pretty close to him. And has that reached and he hits that shot that the play on the wing where he spins out and turns and he sees there's no one there. So he just goes in and shoots a little left handed layup. He was still so good when they had to have it and like that was his value in this game. And just the threat level he represents the rest of. You're right, he's not like he's the typical, you know, dual threat with the explosiveness at the rim and also the deep shooting. He wasn't that. Will he get there? I don't know. I mean, it remains to be seen how he's going to feel game to game. How long are they going to bring him off the bench? Like, what's the plan going forward? They won a game in which he clearly is not his best, but I think just the lift that he gave them these there meant a lot to this team from a confidence standpoint. Terence Shannon Jr. Is a guy that I absolutely love the Very first time I saw him in Vegas summer league, I thought, man, this guy is so aggressive with his mindset when he catches the basketball and the pressure he wants to put on you. Now it hasn't necessarily gone the way you expect because he's had injuries and I thought Nikhil Alexander Walker leaving was going to open up this huge opportunity for him. I just looked it up. I think he only played double digit minutes like 23 times all season because of the injuries and then coming back from the injuries like the rotation was set and it was just hard for him. It looked to me almost last night like two or three different occasions. He caught San Antonio by surprise with his burst of speed where they were not able to cut him off. And I think they're so used to it because there's such a great defensive team and they've got this length in the back. They're so used to cutting off angles on teams and if they can't, it's erased in the backside. He had opportunities where his burst like beat them to the spot to such an extent that the next line wasn't there to help because he's got that level of athletic ability and aggressiveness and he likes contact, you know, listen, man, he's 5 for 13, 16 points. They're not winning the game if Terrence Shannon Jr. Just has like an okay night. He was great in this game. Jay McDaniels again has been continuing to do it. He's continued to make these tough pull up, you know, mid range shots that he's added to his game. Made enough of those. Naz Reed was pretty good in this game, you know, and Edwards, so like nobody was spectacular but a bunch of dudes were really good and they were clearly not fazed by anything related to the moment because this team's been through much bigger games and they just took the fight to San Antonio and they got enough contributions across the board where there wasn't like an undue amount of pressure on either Randall or Edwards to have a great game. So that's really good sign for them. Nobody over this. Wasn't ant going for 45 and they steal a road win. You look at up and down their lineup like a lot of guys played well and that was enough to get it done against this team. That's got to give them an incredible amount of confidence. Particularly if Anthony Edwards continues to feel better and better as we go. Or is it going to be something where, you know, he deals a little bit of swelling after each game and it's going to be kind of an up and down thing that's a little different for them to get this game. And because they just got a bunch of guys just played well, that's a great sign for Minnesota.

A (28:25)

Yeah, I still feel okay if I'm San Antonio.

B (28:28)

Yeah, for sure.

A (28:29)

Because of the ant stuff, the health stuff and IO being out, I am now going to have to win a game in Minnesota because in three or four because I don't want to fall down three one. Even with home court advantage, Game two obviously is not quite a must win, but pretty close. And I'm looking at Fox in Game two because I think one thing, the other one of the other things the spurs have to do is we've got to make life more difficult for Mike Conley and Bowens Highland on defense. And Fox is one of the ways to do that. And he had a couple of drives right at Bones and Conley where he just didn't hesitate, got the switch and went. And then the other thing I'm interested in is like, who, who does Victor guard when Gobert is off the floor? And I think they'll study the film and decide, you know, do we just need to put him on Randall a little bit more, even though Randall will go at him. All right, let's take a quick break and we'll talk about what passed for a playoff game in the Eastern Conference last night. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by fanduel. And fanduel is giving you better payouts on same game parlays all NBA playoffs long. With more ways to build and more value every time you play. You can stack your picks your way for every game, every matchup and every moment. From spreads to player points to threes and more, build it all into one same game parlay and go for bigger payouts. So if you're betting same game parlays this NBA postseason, bet them on FanDuel. More options, better payouts all NBA playoffs long. Head to FanDuel.com low to get started. FanDuel official partner of the NBA play your game 21 are over is in select states. 18 are over in DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- GAMBLER call 1-888-78-97777 or visit ccpg.org chatincut this episode is brought to you by new era the 90s weren't just a decade. They were a moment. And now it's back. Introduced to the new era NBA Hardwood Classics 90s edition. Bringing back the golden era basketball with iconic teams like the Bulls, Rockets, Spurs Suns Pistons. That's like the horsey chess piece Pony Pistons with the teal you get the Charlotte Hornets. Remember the Charlotte Hornets? Awesome gear up and down the line. The Vancouver Grizzlies. A throwback for a team that doesn't really exist anymore. That's that stuff is always fun to have. Plus 90s all star game caps complete with host team side patches for that authentic throwback feel. Available in a wide range of fitted and adjustable styles. Visit newera.comringer to shop now and use the one time code Ringer for 20% off your first order. Okay Knick Sixers the Amtrak Ball 1 team looked like it was really, really well prepared for a second round series both in terms of effort level and the way they had scouted their opponent. And the other team looked like it had been about 40 hours since they had won a game seven on the road and had to pivot very quickly to a hostile environment. The Knicks absolutely blow the doors off the 76ers. I don't even know what the final score was. I'm going to cop to it. I stopped watching in the third quarter when Nick Nurse waved the white flag.

B (31:36)

You didn't miss anything.

A (31:37)

Which I think was. I actually watched through the third quarter just to see is he going to bring any of the main guys back in the game and actually thought that was an okay decision to just be like, you know what lost cause. We're not going to put any more minutes on guys who just played a ton of minutes in a grueling series. But I thought, to me, I thought the Knicks were just extremely well prepared for this game and a hat tip to both their players and their coaching staff the minute they saw, okay, Embiid is guarding Cat. Embiid's not going to cross match on Josh Hart. Now maybe we see more of that in game two, maybe we don't. The minute that matchup was given to them, they just were like, we're just going to run this to death. We're going to run Brunson Cat to death. We're going to do it in different ways. Like I love when they have Brunson just kind of cut off cats backside and go into the lane. It's kind of a pick and roll without Brunson handling the ball. And if you dip a little bit off Cat, he's going to shoot a three. If you let Brunson go, he's going to get a layup or set a screen for somebody. And they got great looks out of that. Like Cat got threes Jalen Brunson got drives when Joel had Mead switched. Jalen Brunson put him on skates. They put Joel through if you put it per possession because obviously Joel didn't play a lot of minutes last night. They put him through 56 picks on defense when he was guarding the screener per 100 possessions. That's tied for the fourth highest amount in any game this season. They clearly were like, we are making you work, whether you're on towns or whoever, we are going to make you work a lot on defense. Robinson comes in. They immediately get good stuff out of the Brunson, Robinson pick and roll, a lob, dunk, Brunson layup, all this kind of stuff before they hacked Mitch out of the game. And then in the, in the second quarter legs they had a stretch where I think Huck Porty got brought into the game because they needed a third center to ride out the Mitchell Robinson fouling. And the cat inevitable foul trouble. The flopping in this series is just going to be. It's going to be one of the great all time flop offs in NBA playoff history. It's going to be a great flop fest. And Vijay Edam called it out to be. I don't know if you saw that last night when he told the refs all. All Brunson is doing is this. And he jerked his head back and like. And he was making the fly. I love Vijay Edgecombe. I could not love that dude anymore. He has no time for any of this fucking nonsense. But they bring Huck Porty into the game and the Sixers decide to spring a blitz on the Brunson Huckporty pick and roll. And teams do this sometimes with Robinson too. And I think the gambit the defenses are saying is go ahead and hit Mitchell Robinson or Huck Porty in the in open space in a four on three. They're not going to make plays. They can't dribble or shoot. We're going to recover. We'll be fine. And the Knicks like without even having seen it, were instantaneously ready for it. First possession, the blitz comes. Josh Hart comes up as a release valve. Jalen Brunson to Josh Hart to Mikhail Bridges. McKill Bridges gets a wide open 3, misses it. Guess who got the offensive rebound. Josh Hart, who was just all over the court again with steals and rebounds. And then Bridges hits a three. Next possession. Now I know for sure the blitz is coming. Jalen Brunson fakes towards Huck Porty's pick. Here comes the blitz on the Other side. Boop. He goes the other way for a layup. Third possession, the Knicks are. The six are like, I guess we can't blitz anymore. Jalen Brunson runs a pick and roll, sees Joel Embiid drop back, just reigns a three over him. The Knicks were just so well prepared and they made Embiid's life absolutely miserable. They ran, they have kind of rediscovered and Mikhail Bridges has rediscovered that he's actually a talented offensive player. They ran seven pick and rolls with him as the ball handler last night, which is. Doesn't sound like a lot, but It's a top 20amount for him in 80, 90 games, whatever this season per possession. And I think it's actually smart because if Maxi is going to guard him, you can't switch a Bridges cat pick and roll and put Maxi on cat. And it's just a way to hunt Maxi too and get Bridges involved. I just saw it like really good, well planned Game one, obviously a dud from Philly. So when you look at the results from the game, like what did you see or what counters do you see for Philly? Like, what's notable to you going into game two?

B (35:44)

The first thing that seemed kind of clear to me was, I mean, and it's a real thing, the lingering effects of kind of the way the two series ended for both teams in the first round. You know, we were doing that game down in Atlanta that, you know, where the Knicks had a 61 point lead, which basically they played perfect basketball for a half. And one of the key things that came out of that, you know, Mikhail Bridges finishing that series the way that he did after struggling so badly in the first five games to finish the way that he did was something he was going to be able to take forward. He left because even that night, if they win by 45 against Atlanta and Bridges goes 3 for 12. Yeah, he's happy they won, of course. But I got news for you. He's got another. Whatever it was four or five days, he's still kind of in his own head about where his offense is.

A (36:38)

Did it, did Atlanta cut the lead to 45 at some point? Because that would have been pretty dramatic if they cut that to 45 in game.

B (36:46)

I think mid second quarter it dipped under. It dipped under 46 mid. Mid second quarter. So I just think that that. And I said it even that night on the air, I felt like the. Maybe the. Obviously other than winning the series, the fact that Mikhail Bridges was taking that with him and he got on that charter to fly back to New York. He felt completely different about himself. He goes 7 for 10 in this game. When he is struggling, it feels a little bit like a weight on the team and a weight in the building in Madison Square Garden. Like, if he's quiet, it's like they're not quite firing on all cylinders right now. They are. They're playing incredible offensive basketball. Think about this, Zach. They outscored the Sixers by 51 points from the field in this game by 51 points. They scored 125 points from the field on made shots to 71 for the Sixers. The Sixers don't get to the line 34 times. Like, then who knows what this score ends up being? But that's how. That's how dominant they were in this game. And I do think going seven games, you know, just the quick turnaround from Saturday night to come right back and play Monday, all that went into that comeback against Boston. This team that had just kept eliminating you year after year, you overcame it. You have, like one day now. Let's start talking about the Knicks, who are playing at this level offensively. It just, to me, was set up for this. I think now you really find out game two, you really find out what kind of series this is going to be. You're going to get. And it's. Look, again, it's. It's a quick turnaround. Two days for Philly. They still haven't had a chance to really rest, but now there's a sense of desperation in a punch back. What's the punch back going to be? I do agree with you. I thought the Knicks offensively, like, their execution was just so flawless. They saw every matchup they wanted to exploit, and when they got it, they attacked it initially. If they didn't, the ball got moved out of there and put Philadelphia in scramble mode, and they were not able to catch up to it. It felt like there was a speed and a pace and a force for the Knicks offensively, whether it was transitioning from backcourt to front court or just even in the half court that Philadelphia just didn't have. And the tone setter for me, for Philly in Game 2 has to be Maxi, not Embiid. It has to be Tyrese Maxey at the start of that game. I want to see him playing at breakneck speed, hyper aggressive, get 8, 10 shots in the first quarter. If he could do that again, what

A (39:17)

did the Knicks do to slow him down? Like, what. What did you. I mean, three of nine, obviously only plays 27 minutes, but, you know, I mean, there was the 1A, their transition defense was awesome. And there was that 12 on one that Vijay and Maxi had where you're just like, well, that's death. Like those two guys at a two on one, it's over. And Mikhail Bridges hustled back and then I think Josh Hart hustled back as the secondary guy and Tyrese ended up missing a contested layup. Like a plus transition defense by the Knicks. But I thought their pick and roll defense on the Maxi and be two man game was pretty much about as good as it gets with a couple of like Cat fouls here and there. Like they met Tyrese Maxey, the big guys did like fairly high up. Bridges got over and the big guys, Mitchell, Robinson and Cat were really good. Dropping back but kind of staying in touch with Embiid, allowing the defense to reset and forcing a lot of tough twos. But like it's. That's great. These are two super duper star players like you. You would expect them to just get better, get better shots. So like, what did the Knicks do? What? What? Other than just playing head down faster, what does Maxi do?

B (40:21)

So your point about the pick and roll is really where this whole thing is. And so here's where Maxi destroys you on ball screen if you're back and drop coverage and the screen is set five, six feet above the line. So let's say it's a 30 foot screen and the big is back. He comes off to his right hand so fast and by the time he comes off the screen, he's got like another four or five feet before he gets to the line. He takes that one last hard dribble, rises up. It's like automatic going to his right hand off the screen. He shoots it much better going to his right hand. He didn't get those looks. The other thing that he kills you on if you're not in drop a lot of times the biggest sort of up, but they're turned a little bit and there's that little bit of a door that's open where they're giving him a lane to the rim. And he is so fast with his acceleration coming off the ball screen don't have the three because you're up far enough, big guy, but you're turned. Your shoulders aren't square.

A (41:24)

To me. I think he got, I think he got Cat's third foul on exactly what you're talking about. Like Cat just kind of.

B (41:31)

Exactly. He did. He just. And then he got into his chest and he's good at drawing that foul. They for the most part, did not like give him that. And so, and he's a guy like, again, I think he sets the tone for them early better than Embiid does. Because in beat early in the game, unless he makes a couple of threes because they're giving them to him, okay, for the most part, it's going to be like, okay, that 18 foot two, two point jump shot. All right? You make three or four of those beginning the game, you don't feel gutted defensively. Tyrese Maxey can hit you with a couple of threes, a couple of drives, two free throws. You look up, he's got 15 points, you're halfway through the first quarter, the whole night's been set for him. And it changes the way you play him defensively now. Other guys become better. They just didn't let him get that stuff. And so their, their point of attack, pick and roll. Like their attention to detail on that was really good, really strong. He did not get into rhythm off of that action and he relies on it so much, particularly when he's going to his right hand.

A (42:27)

I thought they found some traction when they brought Grimes in the game. And when it's like Grimes, Edgecomb, Paul George and the two superstars, Maxi and Embiid, Brunson has to guard Grimes. They could try him on Edgecomb, I guess, but he guarded Grimes a lot. And they would do these staggered screens with Grimes and Embiid as the screeners and actually Maxi would pitch it ahead to Embiid and just sprint into it. And the Knicks would have to hedge and get out like they would have Brunson try to hedge. And if you switch, they did get that Maxi Brunson switch a couple of times. When they get that switch, I would almost rather Joel Embiid goes away and spaces the floor and just let Maxi go one on one instead of going into a pick and roll and bringing more defenders into it. So they found, they found something in that. Mitchell Robinson guards Embiid like about as well as you can guard him one on one in the post. I don't, I, off the top of my head, I'm sure there are a couple of guys I could think of that guard and be better without help. Cat's going to need a little bit of help. He's going to risk foul trouble. But I thought Mitchell Robinson was, was really good. The hack of Mitch. Look, I guess you got to do it, right? I mean, I hate it because it slows down the game. I like it because it's. It Makes free throws a little bit more dramatic and exciting. And if he makes one, the crowd goes crazy. I guess you just got to do it, I guess, you know. Justin Edwards, congratulations. Your job is to come in the game and just foul Mitchell Robinson.

B (43:47)

A lot of times I think I'd do it more if I were Nick Nurse.

A (43:51)

I guess you have to.

B (43:52)

I think I would because. And I don't know if you're going to get the opportunity because then Mike Brown makes the adjustment. Maybe he gets them off the floor and you can't. But I do think right now, looking at the Knicks those last three games against Atlanta, the way they played in this game, they're in such a rhythm offensively that I think any chance you get to disrupt their flow and rhythm and it's one less possession where Brunson gets to dictate terms to you or whatever it may be, I think you take advantage of that. So let's see what Nick Nurse's plan is going forward. Now, there is a downside to it. The downside to it is for Philly is you're not able to run at all. And that's something to me has to happen in this series. They have to play faster offensively because that's when the space that Edgecombe and Maxi have, and Maxi in particular, it's just so problematic for you when they're playing so early up the floor, floor for six, eight seconds on the clock while you're back and there's space and there's gaps and there's. He. He attacks you. He puts so much pressure on you. So when you're fouling a guy like number one, the rebounds are hard to come by because the defense rebounds, because the balls are coming off sometimes really hard. Like, so, like there's not a guarantee you get the defensive rebounds and the Knicks are.

A (45:12)

The Knicks are obviously ready. Like we're going to rebound that try to rebound the hell.

B (45:16)

Right? But the bigger thing for me is even if you do secure the defensive rebound, it's inexcusable to give up anything in early offense off of a missed or made free throw. And especially in the playoffs because you're so prepared, you should be so hyper alert to making sure that doesn't happen. So I think I'd almost have to do it more to disrupt the rhythm. But there is some downside to the Sixers as well. And right now might not matter, man, because of how well the Knicks are playing offensively. This, to me, game two for me is all about not allowing Brunson to Get into an early rhythm that has to be absolutely top of the whiteboard. We can't let him come to a situation where he's got 10, 12 points early in the game because it's going to be a problem the rest of the night. That's the priority. And then offensively, I think that they've got to try to play a little bit faster early and I think Maxey is the key to the start to their game. Offensively, it can't be. We run five, six possessions through Embiid to start the game. I don't think that's going to be a formula for success. Now. Embiid's got to be great in the series and he'll have his moments, but I don't think starting the game that way is the way to go. I think Max is the guy that is the key to get them off to a fast start. It gives their team more confidence and he's capable. As we've seen, he can have a 30, 35, 40 point night if he gets going early and finds that rhythm.

A (46:38)

That's a good call. And, and Brunson, I don't know what you do to disrupt him early. I mean, the first thing I'm going to be watching for when game two tips off is who is in bead guarding. The obvious switch would be to put him on either Hart or Bridges. I would probably. I mean, most teams would go Hart and Hart has really done well when teams. I mean, I've told the story before. In the middle of the season, I was having coffee with the head coach whose team was about to play the Knicks and I was asking him, who are you going to put your center on? Are you going to do the thing where you put him on Josh Hart? And he was like, honestly, we're talking about with my coaches, like Josh Hart's making threes and crashing the offensive glass and setting screens. Like he's kind of made that a little bit scary. But Cat is just such a hardcover for any drop back big that, that, that's what there was. Even the one drive that an OBI drove all the way from the left corner just bullied Uber. And it was like it took a while. Like it wasn't a fast drive and he just laid the ball in because Embiid's out on the perimeter on Cat and can't and can't help. So I'll, I'll be watching that. But I don't know what you do with Brunson because he's just lit up the Sixers over and over again. And I don't know if you just have to just blitz him every time to start the game just to. Just to throw him off. But really, really good atmosphere too in the Garden. They're really fired up to boo him.

B (47:50)

It's incredible. Incredible environment. I can't be there tomorrow night.

A (47:55)

The other thing on Embiid, like he showed this against Boston where in the middle of game, I think it was game six, I can't remember. No, it was game five. It was in Boston, I don't know which, whatever game. Some game in Boston where he had been posting up in the first half and settling for fade away jumpers and stuff. And in the third quarter he clearly came out and was like, I'm just going to put Nikola Vuchovic in the basket. And he just did it over and over and over again. And Vuch is a big dude and Mitchell Robinson's a big dude and Cat's a big dude. My point is Embiid clearly has a power gear that he has in reserve and he's not using it all the time because it's physically exhausting. And he just had appendicitis like three weeks ago and he got hit last night going around a screen and he just didn't summon it last night. Maybe it wasn't the night, but he's going to have to summon that for six minute stretches here or there because when he does that, when he plays with that kind of force, there isn't anybody who can really guard him without fouling him. And, and anyway, that's, that's that.

B (48:54)

Well, real quick, I just, just want to give you one thought on that real quick. Here's the difference though. In this series and the last one, you're right, that game, that turned the series. The third quarter and fourth quarter of game five turn the series because the first beginning of that game.

A (49:08)

That's right.

B (49:09)

And beads. They're down 3:1 and bead is shooting a bunch of jumpers to start the game. He missed three threes in the beginning game. He's one for seven to start the game. All jump shots. Then they're down and Boston didn't even play well. They were up seven at halftime. Third quarter, season on the line. They come out and he said it, he said, we made adjustments at halftime and Bead said that. And it was that he had to catch the ball in the spots where now you have a real difficult time deciding how to guard him. Elbows, short, ISO wing areas. That's where he went to work. And Vucovic wanted no part of that battle with him in that quarter. You know, Garza was the other guy that threw it up. Kato was in foul trouble, which was a big part of that series. He couldn't stay out of foul trouble. Some of them are just silly fouls he committed illegal screens that took him off the floor. When you got a guard and bead like, you can't set an illegal screen if you've got three fouls. When you got a guard embiid, this is different because you've got Mitchell, Robinson, you've got Towns, you've got guys that have the brawn to be able to take on that fight a little bit and battle him because he doesn't have the same lift. If you give no resistance and you will let him go where he wants. Yeah, he's going to turn, he's going to. That touch is going to overwhelm you. If you can bang him a little bit when he's starting to try to get into something to get better position, he doesn't have the lift and you will wear him out. And some of those little turnaround fadeaways are going to come up short that he was making against Boston to help close out that series. Being played by smaller guys or bigs that didn't really want that fight. The Knicks have guys that want that fight. So let's see what impedes response is. Maxi's response is that was obviously so far from what the Sixers best is. You know, Knicks were pretty damn good. The Sixers were not close to their best version. You expect to get that in game two.

A (50:57)

Let's pivot and just quickly look at the two series that begin tonight. It's like 10 in the morning right now, so we have a little bit of time. Lakers Thunder, Reeves obviously back. Still no real timetable on Luka. If you had given me Luca healthy, Jalen Williams not healthy, I could have talked myself into like this could be a pretty interesting series, at least from like the. A matchup perspective. Because Lou Dort can only guard one of LeBron or Luka and who's going to guard the other one? And what does that mean for who Shea has to guard and who Chet has to guard, etc. Well, Lou Dort can just guard LeBron right now and they can put AJ Mitchell on Austin Reeves and probably safely start him and put Shea Marcus smart or wherever. And you know, it's just, it's. It's a tough slog, I think for the Lakers. If you, if you had had the Lakers fully healthy, Jalen Williams not healthy. I could have seen the Lakers just walking the Thunder down and playing like an old man. Post up bully ball. We're going to outsmart you. We have Luka who's you know, not the best player in the series. But as close as you're going to to Shay do are the Lakers drawing dead here and is what else what can they do?

B (52:12)

It's going to take to me for me to for them to really make this interesting without Luca. It's going to take probably an anomaly from the three point line because the one thing to Thunder do as better than any team in the league, Detroit is probably very close to it. The way that they put bodies in the pain on any sort of penetration is incredible to watch. Particularly I love the angle sometimes when the camera's looking straight down at the lane and I've always described it as putting food in the fish tank. And that's what it looks like. The fish come to eat because they all fly to it and then their closeout speed to the line is great. And those are still tougher shots than it would be against most teams that help that much. They recover so fast but they're still that's the shot you have to hit because they're not going to let you physically overwhelm them in the lane on straight line drives or on back you down type stuff. They're just not. There are too many guys on that team are there to help. They're so quick and fast and so many guys that could do it. So that kick out pass and a reward at the end of it for making them pay for overhelping is the solution. Obviously that's not the Lakers strength. So it's going to take couple guys each night are going to have to have statistical almost anomaly type nights because that's the shot that you're going to have to make because that's the shot Oklahoma City is going to dare you to take a shot with a defender flying out at you with closeout speed. And even if you pump fake and try to go then buy him, there's another guy ready to fly there into your lap. They're just not going to let you beat them in the lane. So it's going to have to come from deep. So that's really honestly what's going to have to happen. Look at the three point margins from night to night. Look at the efficiency from out there. Who do the Lakers have that can, you know, Marcus Smart, you know he's, he's a wild card, he's capable he can have a six made three night. Luke Canard is capable, but Oklahoma City is going to prioritize Luke Canard in this series. You know, LeBron is capable of having nights like that, but can they do it like multiple nights in this series and consistently enough to beat Oklahoma City and use their, you know, ability to fly to the ball against them? Not enough teams in this league can do that. The Lakers, it's not their strength. That's why it's going to be a very tall order for them against this team. Scoring is going to be difficult. Defensively, it's, it's not easy either. But if you're, if you at least have them taken out of the net, you've got a chance to play them and set up how you want to guard Shay. If you're not shooting well and they come up the floor and they've got early space and now you got to play Shay like that. Backpedaling and trying to forget it. They just got you. So this is a, this is a, you know, there's a reason they're a big underdog and they should be without Luka Doncic.

A (54:58)

Yeah, no question about that. And I think the three point thing has to be an anomaly on both ends of the floor because you, you just broke down the Lakers offense and what, what shots the Thunder are going to allow. And yeah, LeBron can try his best to hunt whatever size mismatches the Thunder present. They don't present many. It's like Shay and Shay's like a very good defensive player and Mitchell and whatever. And they shot the three well against Houston in the first round. They just don't shoot very many of them in general. The other thing they did against Houston, which they cannot do in this round, is, and you could maybe Reeves being back helps relieve this a little bit. They had the worst turnover rate on offense of any team in the playoffs. And like, obviously that's death on arrival against the Thunder and on the other end of the floor, I mean, the Lakers only answer, just like it was against Houston, which worked, is basically just like we're just going to junk this up, play some hybrid zone man, scrunch in on Shea, force everyone else to shoot above the break threes if we can. And we're just going to need you to shoot 27% for the series to have any chance. And Caruso was hot in the first round, Door was all right in the first round and like, we'll just have to see what happens. I mean, my official pick, if I had to make one I would just go Thunder in five without assuming. I guess Luca just doesn't play in the series and I would just kind of stick with that. I don't know if you want to make a prediction, but I'll give the Lakers the other thing.

B (56:19)

The other thing is, like with the Thunder, we've seen time and time again when they're, when they're just kind of sitting at home, you know, game one,

A (56:28)

Game one's tough for the other team

B (56:29)

waiting on the next team to show up in their building. It's, it's just like throwing a stage steak, you know, into the lion cage. They're just like waiting the line on this game. And I don't, I'm not a gambler, but I, you know, sometimes you look at it just to see it's 15 and a half.

A (56:44)

I was going to guess 12 and a half.

B (56:45)

So this is a 14 matchup. You know, this is a 1 format and obviously not having Luka Doncic is an enormous part of that. But that is the extent to which I think most people look at it and just, you just wonder how are the Lakers going to be able to run their offense with enough success against this defense without a guy like Luca?

A (57:07)

If Luka were healthy, I think I would have gone Thunder. And six, I just think the Lakers would get games with Luka. Seven would not. Would surprise me, but it wouldn't. Like I wouldn't be completely blown away, but I would give them two. And maybe the Thunder make that look foolish because the Thunder just run teams out of the gym, like you said. But I just think, but, but he's not. And that's where we are.

B (57:29)

Let's preview. You know what the thing is about Luka too is like, it's a shame for fans just like to not see it because he shot over 40% from the 3 for a longer stretch of time than he ever has throughout his career prior to that injury. And it's such an enormous part of his game because when he's, when he's shooting in the low 30s and he's still taking 12 of those a night, it just changes everything about how you view, how you have to guard him. How much help do you have to commit to him? And you're going to live with it when he's having nights where he's over 50% from the three, a lot of nights and like I said 40% for like a two month stretch and he's shooting that many, in addition to the 10 to 12 free throws he's getting like now you've got a real problem on your hands. And so to see him at that efficiency level playing against this team would have been fascinating. And it stinks. We're not going to get in. Even if somehow he had made a miraculous recovery, it's like, man, he's been out a while. Could he even find that level of efficiency again in short order against this team? I don't know. But it's just a shame that you're not going to see LeBron, Luka, Reeves, all those guys against the Thunder team in a series. So the Thunder defense just ultimately might be too much for the Lakers offense. But let's see what the lakers have. Game 1 will tell you a lot.

A (58:48)

Yeah, and Reeves obviously hasn't been back for long, so he's working his way back. Okay. Cavs, Pistons. I think this series is being slept on a little bit because we didn't know what the series was going to be until like two days ago. And both of these teams feel like they're coming off disappointing seven game wins. Even though Detroit rallied from three one down, the Cavs have to gut it out, winning every home game in the series against the Raptors team that missing, that missed its starting point guard the entire series and missed Brandon Ingram. All star. Brandon Ingram, I wouldn't have put him on the all star team this year, but he is a capital A all star. He made the team for the last few games and they need seven games to beat that team. And Detroit, I don't know that they win that series if Franz Wagner doesn't get hurt. But he did get hurt and they win. And here we are. And I think this is actually going to be a fun series. I think there's some fun stuff to dig into on both ends of the floor. You pick an end of the floor like Cleveland offense, Detroit offense. Where do you want to start and what are you going to be watching for? Cleveland.

B (59:47)

Cleveland offense to me is the. Is. Is going to determine the series. I mean, Detroit's an elite defensive team. I don't know that I've seen a team collectively across the board, not just one or two guys that, that protect the rim. The level that the Detroit Pistons do like their wings, but the way those. And it includes Cade, it's like, it's

A (60:09)

like an American Gladiators competition. Like they just made a layup competition that you just get to try to make a layup and people are going to swarm you from. Like people just pop out of different corners of the court like a Sar Thompson's over here and Isaiah Stewart's over here and they're just. And the Sar Thompson blocked shots are so violent. Like he just rips the ball out of your hand.

B (60:29)

It's just.

A (60:29)

They're unbelievable. I'm sorry, I just have to get there.

B (60:31)

You would have a better chance, you would have a better chance of completing Navy SEAL training than getting to the rim against the two short Pistons. I'm just telling you like and like sitting there when you're. And we called the game seven even like visually just watching it in real time, you're like there's no light to be had at the end of these drives. These guys come from everywhere. They fly off the corner, they're guarding a shooter in a corner and it turns out that's the guy that makes a play at the rim and gets a piece of it. It's incredible to watch. They leading the NBA in blocks in the postseason and they. I don't know. At one point they had 10. I stopped counting in the, in the game on Sunday. But to me it's the Cavs offense against this level defense. And this is a totally different animal for the Pistons than what they just had to guard. I mean that's an anemic three point shooting team in Orlando and they didn't have Wagner. A guy that can handle the ball and play through contact at 6:10 and give you 17, 18 a night. You're right. He doesn't get hurt. Good chance Orlando wins the series. I also think there's a great chance Orlando wins a series if Tobias Harris doesn't play the way he played in that series. Now he didn't shoot well from the three until Sunday. He had 19% for the series coming into that game. But his he didn't miss mid range shots. The guy had five straight 20 point games plus and the 30 point game on Sunday to close the series. They would have lost, they would have been eliminated already before Sunday if it wasn't for Tobias Harris. So can he, can he duplicate that? I don't know. This for me is mostly about can the Pistons do to this offense what they were able to do to the Orlando offense? That's. And again, I think game one of both of these series tonight are going to tell you an awful lot about how this is going to go no matter who wins the game.

A (62:26)

Let's stick with Cleveland offense. One of the interesting things, almost no matter how you break down the matchups, unless you really want to get funky with some of your matchups, Cade is going to have to guard Harden or Mitchell, when it's the starters versus the starters, it's just. That's just the way the matchups break down. Duncan Robinson is going to hide on Dean Wade. I suspect Dean Wade will get the start in game one. It could be Streuss, I would. Or it could be Tyson even, but I would just bet on Wade as the safe choice. They're going to hunt Duncan Robinson relentlessly with Harded and Mitchell, obviously. And the Pistons are great at hedging in that and recovering it and helping behind it. But they're going to test that out and they're going to make Cade guard. And Cade's a really a good defensive player. He guarded Paolo a lot. He guarded Franz a lot. It's not like he's not game for that. But this is a different level of like, quickness and shot creation than anything that the Magic could throw at Detroit. And it's like Detroit had good success switching with Tobias Harris and switching with Jalen Duran when they had to in that series because it was switching onto Paolo, who's not going to blow by you or shoot threes. I think those switches are a lot less tenable. But obviously Detroit just brings a ton of cohesion and toughness and speed and frenzy on defense. And Donovan Mitchell specifically is just going to have to be better than he was in the first round. I thought he. I thought he played a very frazzled, like, why is he dribbling 25 times? What's happening in this series? But Detroit, as great as they are defensively, in their second in the league defensively this year, they're kind of a more traditional defense than Toronto. And I think Toronto's weirdness and switchability just kind of threw off Cleveland. I bet Cleveland is going to look a little bit better offensively in this series. And a couple other notes. Detroit, the free throw battle is going to be critical. Detroit fouls more than any team in the league. And the Cavs have James Harden, but they also get to the free throw line a lot. And so they have to sort of. That's got to be close for Detroit to win this series. And the turnover battle. Detroit forced the most turnovers in the league. Cleveland's going to have to be careful with that. And just an interesting thing to watch. You mentioned shot selection, Lakers, Thunder, the Cavs take a ton of threes and Detroit gives up, by design, a ton of threes and sort of can the Cavs make those threes count? Can they make them good threes? So it's going to be interesting. Battle let's. Let's flip it around. Detroit has the ball. Cleveland's on defense. What's interesting to you?

B (64:53)

I mean, look, so far no one's had any sort of solution for Kate Cunningham. And it's. He's fascinating to watch because in an environment that speeds you up, which is the playoffs, and particularly the deeper you get into a series like Game 7 is supposed to, like, make you feel like, you know, this, this urgency where you play a little bit faster. He looked on Sunday as if he was literally just kind of playing in a summer league game. Goes where he wants, Never sped up, always in rhythm. So that's the key. Like, what can you do against him when he starts getting into a comfort zone? To me, you're going to have. If you don't force the ball out of Cade Cunningham's hands and make every single guy on their team besides Duncan Robinson have as many threes as they want in this series. And I probably even would test the water early again with Tobias, but he's on such a role. Maybe he still has it going, but everybody else that sees the floor, have at it. There's no way I'm letting Cade Cunningham operate one on one in the post. He's not going to come off ball screens and not see another body right in front of him. He's not going to do it. It has to be other guys, and Orlando was not really able to do that against Cade Cunningham, and that's a very good defensive team in their own right. Can Cleveland pull that off? For me, this has to be about making sure the ball gets funneled toward the guys that you are willing to live with shooting the ball for Detroit. If you're Cleveland defensively, if you don't pull that off, then you know you're not going to deserve to win the series. That has to be the priority. How do you limit Cade Cunningham's effectiveness and ability to control the game? Because he was in full control for them most of that series and certainly from the time they had to make that comeback to get themselves even to a Game 7, it's like it's his game. They didn't do anything on Sunday to really affect that.

A (66:45)

Yeah, I think I'm going to be fascinated by how they defend Cade and who defends Cade. I'm going to. I would guess that they open the series, they've been pretty rigid about. We're putting one of our big men. When we have both of them on the floor, Mobley and Allen, we're putting one of them on a star Thompson because we're just going to have. Sometimes it's Mobley, sometimes it's downwards. Going to have that guy Rove and help. And that means James Harden has to guard Tobias Harris. I think they're fine with that. And Dean Wade starts on Kate Cunningham and I think he'll see tons of different guys but I think their favorite guys on him are Wade, Tyson and Stre. But he'll see, you know, Scher Keon Ellis may get back into the rotation at points here and I, I do think to your point about taking the ball out of his hands on the one hand, I know Cleveland obviously has studied the Orlando Detroit series and saw how the Pistons took Duran almost completely out of the series by going under on Cade screens and switching. And if you have Wade on Cade, that's a nice rhyme. Wade on Cade and like one of your bigs on Duran, you're kind of tailor made to do that same thing. And so I suspect we'll see them use that Orlando roadmap a little bit. But also to your point, mix in maybe some more aggressive defenses just to, just to mix it up and get the ball out of, out of Cade's hands. But I think that's going to be sort of an interesting chess match there. I think they'll go under on Cade some and he made enough threes to hurt Orlando in the first round. Let's see if he, if he can do it again. And this the same 3 point stuff applies. Like Detroit does not take threes at all. They were 29th and three point rate and Cleveland gives a lot of threes up on defense. And so how does that work? How does like if they do put bigs on a Saar Thompson and just ignore him. I think one of the big adjustments Detroit made down the stretch of that series was now they didn't put bigs on a star Thompson, they put Jalen Suggs on him. The Magic did. But if you're going to ignore him, we got to use him. We got to use him as a screener, we got to use him as a DHO guy. We got to put the ball in his hands a little bit. And that worked pretty well for the Pistons. So there's just a lot of interesting. I think this is going to be a really fun. I don't know if you want to make a pick. I am prepared to make a pick. I'm a little terrified by my own pick. But do you have any gut feeling on this one?

B (69:04)

I don't typically like to make predictions on the series Just because there's, you know, there's a chance I'm calling one of these games at some point.

A (69:09)

That's right. Yeah. I forgot about, you know.

B (69:11)

So, yeah, it's just. It's just a little bit of a different feel, but you can certainly lay it out. I just think that it's. For me, it's going to come down to. And I'll. I think I'll get a good feel for this after the first game. Like, what effect does Detroit have on Cleveland's offense? And like, can James Harden be better than he was to close the series? Because I do think it's going to be. Look, Donovan Mitchell is. He's going to have to work for everything he gets in the series, and we both agree he has to be better. That's not an easy task. He just played one really, really good defensive team and now he's about to play another one that in a lot of ways is even more physical and handsy on the perimeter. It's going to wear you down. It's going to be harder for him. So you'd like to see Harden pick up some of that slack. He didn't finish that series. Great. He was able to get to the line in Game 7. Not particularly aggressive, looking for his own shot.

A (70:04)

You don't say.

B (70:06)

Didn't do a whole lot the last two games of that series. Started off with 50 to start the series in the first two games and they're up 20 to close the series. 34 points in the last two games.

A (70:15)

This is making me nervous, Tim.

B (70:17)

Yeah, so, I mean, that's, that's what, that's what you're looking at. The one thing that was a big part of the, of the way Duran was played in the last series. You mentioned Suggs. Suggs was completely just taking away all of the roles off ball screen because he wasn't guarding us or Thompson. He was on the edge of the lane waiting, and as soon as Dern would dive, Suggs was there. So they just could not get those little slips where he was catching and finishing all regular season. He didn't. He didn't get that in this series. Now he had a. I think he had a pretty impactful. Probably his best game in the series was game seven. He was. He was a factor.

A (70:52)

Consistently great on defense, too, the whole series, maybe after the first game and a half, but he, like, did not let the offense stuff affect his effort and intensity on defense, which is to be like a feather in his cap.

B (71:06)

If you see Cleveland in game one, their Offense seems bottled up or they're. It's one of those games where they're having a hard time getting to 100 and that's how. That's how it's played. Then I think you'd start to have some concerns about them winning the series. So that's what I want to see. Can Detroit do to them? You know what, you're going to need to defensively to slow because they are a team capable of going on these runs. They've got a lot of shooting, they've got two elite guards, they've got bigs that can get on the glass. Like this is a team that can really get. If they get freedom of movement, which they won't in this series, they can be tough defensively. So Detroit has to be at their best defensively. That, to me, is where this series will be won. How Detroit guards Cleveland because Detroit's going to. Whatever they do offensively, you know, K is going to be great and then whoever gets it, gets it great. Let's hopefully we get to 100. It's all decided by what they do to the other team. And can you limit Cleveland to that extent, which is a much better offensive team than what they just played?

A (72:02)

I'm picking the Cavs. I don't feel good about it. I'm debating Cavs in six or Cavs in seven. The road team seems to be winning game seven much more than they used to. So I'm going to go Cavs in seven. I think they just have a few more answers offensively and they're going to look a little bit more comfortable at the start of the series than they did against Toronto. Detroit could absolutely win the series. Thus I'm picking a long series.

B (72:28)

Can I tell you some? And we and Mike Breen had a great little statistical nugget on our broadcast on Sunday. Going into those two game sevens, the road team had won 10 of the previous 17. Now it's 10 out of 19, but still it's much more prevalent than it used to be. It was almost like a death sentence going on the road for a Game seven, which was like a foregone conclusion. That's not the case anymore for a lot of different reasons. So, you know, could Cleveland win a Game seven on the road if they got there? They could, but man, that building was crazy on Sunday and they will be. But this is all about Detroit's defense, man. That's what they've hung their hat on all year and now it's, can you come up with what you need to Against a team with this kind of firepower and to, you know, elite guards, that can just really cause you to play two on them all the time. How does Detroit come up with a game plan against it? It's fascinating. I cannot wait to see it.

A (73:22)

Cavs in seven. I just, I'm a little worried about Detroit's offense. I'm a lot worried about the Cavs and crunch time seven. But I'm going to go Cavs, and I'm a little bit worried that the Cavs, I think, have way more pressure on them to win this series than Detroit does, because if they don't advance out of this round yet again.

B (73:41)

All right, so look, let's get specific here. If you're saying that you're saying one of two things. You're either saying the Cavs are down three two going home for game six, or you're saying they're up three two and they. And they don't get it done at home in a game six. Which, which, which version of Cavs in seven do you think this is?

A (74:02)

Okay, you're going to. I like this. You're going to make me blueprint the whole series from start to finish?

B (74:06)

Well, I'm just saying, like, if you

A (74:07)

say they win seven, one of those

B (74:09)

two things has to be true.

A (74:10)

I'll say Cleveland wins the last two games, they win game six at home and win game seven on the road.

B (74:14)

Okay, so they're actually, they're on the precipice of going home, down three two, going home for a game six.

A (74:21)

James Harden reinvents his entire postseason narrative in two straight games. That's what's going to happen. Tim Legler, you're on the way to New York to call Knick Sixers game two for espn. Thank you for lending us some of your time and expertise. You're the best. I can't wait to hear you on the broadcast. Enjoy it Anytime, man.

B (74:36)

I'll see you.

A (74:37)

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B (75:24)

No one goes to Hank's for his spreadsheets. They go for a darn good pizza. Lately, though, the shop's been quiet, so Hank decides to bring back the $1 slice. He asks copilot in Microsoft Excel to look at his sales and costs and help him see if he can afford it. Copilot shows Hank where the money's going and which little else extras make the dollar slice work. Now Hanks has a line out the door. Hank makes the pizza. Co pilot handles the spreadsheets. Learn more@m365copilot.com work see you soon Zach

A (75:57)

all right, it was a very newsy early week in the NBA. Just want to give some quick analysis takes whatever on some of that news. Orlando Least surprising news of the week has fired Jamal Mosley after five seasons head coach the Magic have not won a playoff series since 2010. Their offense completely fell apart against the Pistons. They may, and I would say probably would have won that series had Franz Wagner not gotten injured. And so you know, I don't know how you look at that if you're Jamal Mosley or the Magic. Like are we pessimistic? Are we optimistic? Obviously I think this was the kind of decision that had been pre made before the playoffs barring a run and barring a run that almost happened. And I think game six tells you why the team just does not have a coherent offensive identity now. They were missing Franz Wagner, their best or second best player. And they don't have the type of personnel that lends itself well to constructing a coherent offensive identity. They don't have a lot of shooting outside Desmond Bain. Their two best players are cut from similar cloths. Banchero in particular. I said this with Bill on Sunday. He he has the game of like a number one option. Like a big ball handler who can run a bunch of inverted pick and rolls who can ISO who can post up. But he's just not as good as you need your number one option. He's not as good at that stuff as you need your number one option to be if you're going to be a real, real contender. He's not a good enough shooter, he's not quite a good enough passer and and he is not built to be a number two option because no one is going to guard him on the perimeter now. He was on fire in Game 7 early on and all of that. And Franz is, is sort of broadly similar. I think Franz is better at the second option stuff than Bankaro is. He's sort of more creative, faster cutter, screener. All of the stuff that, you know, you wish Bankero would be a little bit better at. He's okay at it. So, like, it's, it's a, it's a tough puzzle piece. And it's going to be a tough puzzle piece for whoever the next head coach is, whether it's Billy Donovan or Tom Tho or Dusty May or whatever hot rumored coach is going to try to rework this offense because that game six, I mean, you watch them just miss a thousand shots in a row. They scored 19 points in a half of a playoff game. Like, I'm almost impressed. What was the joke in Anchorman like when the dog eats the cheese and it's like, I'm. I'm kind of impressed. Baxter, 19 points in the second half. I would hang a banner somewhere for that. Maybe in Springfield, in my wing of absurdities in the hall of fame. 19 points and a half of basketball is almost insane. And they just had no plan. Like, it was. Everything was station to station. Paolo runs one pick and roll. It's not aimed at the right matchup. It's not aimed at Duncan Robinson. It's a pick and roll that's just going to be switched. And then everyone stands around for six seconds like, so what are we doing with the rest of the shot clock? Anyone have plans after the game? Are you going to set a screen? No, you are. Nobody is. And then Paolo just has to jack up a shot. And it's like this has plagued them the whole season. You can't get to game six of a playoff game with a 20 whatever point lead and just have that kind of meltdown. You've just got to have more answers than that. And the Magic never did. And again, the personnel is tricky. Another reason the personnel is tricky is, you know, this is a team that has $210 million of salary already on the books next season. Like that's first apron level salaries. Anthony Black is eligible for an extension after the season. And Jalen Suggs has four years. It declines. But 32 million, 29 million 26 and 26 ish. And they just, I mean, Bane is their best pick and roll handling guard at this point. And he's. That's really not his main job. And it never has been plus or minus. Some times when Ja was hurt in Memphis. Suggs just falling apart in this series is maybe the biggest single takeaway for the Magic. He could not make a shot. I liked the glimpses of the Suggs Banchero pick and roll with Suggs as the ball handler because it just unlocks a different kind of bankero option as a roller, as a screener, as a mismatch hunter in that sense, like a big guy sense. And we just didn't see it much because Jalen Suggs is not a good enough shooter to do that very often. He's just an okay passer and driver. It's just not his game. And I think the Magic hoped it would be more of Anthony Black's game. And before he got injured midway through the season, he certainly was making a leap. He was in the most improved player conversation. He ended up shooting 33% from three better from the corners, like people are going to go under. He's a tremendous athlete. Does he have the vision for that kind of job? Does he have the passing chops for that kind of job? I think he's an interesting player. I expect them to come up with some sort of long term deal with him. Now, I'm not sure that it'll be an extension and in fact, if I were the Magic, I expect this to be a tough negotiation because if I'm Anthony Black's agent, I'm like, I'm not taking a penny less than Jalen Suggs. And if I'm the Magic, I'm like, well, the Jalen Suggs contract doesn't look great and if that's what you want, we'll take it to restricted free agency. I would expect them to come to an agreement somewhere, but I'm just not sure what the guard future of this team is other than Bain, who cost you four first round picks. Underrated story from the fall that they declined their fourth year team option on Jet Howard, who was a lottery pick. That's a disaster. Jace Richardson gave you nothing. De Silva is hit or miss. Wendell Carter Jr. Is fine as a center, Jack of all trades, master of none, not really a threatening roller on offense, not a threatening shooter, not a great sort of power post player. And I always find it to be sort of an indictment over Orlando's team structure. Not necessarily its coaching, but it's team structure and it's coaching both. How often Wendell Carter Jr. Is in the corner on offense because they just don't know what else to do with him, where else to Put him. They can't use him as a screener because Paolo and Franz are doing that and they're like, all right, I guess our center, who's whatever three point shooter that no one's going to guard is in the corner. All this to say they probably would have won their first round series had Franz been healthy. That's fine. The future of this team around Paolo and Franz, I just wish I would have known a little bit more about it, particularly at the guard spot other than Bane after this series. And financially they just can't pay Black and Suggs and Paolo and Bane and Franz what they're going to have to pay them. I just don't know how they build a functional like top 10 offense out of this team. But there's some like I don't expect them to do anything crazy, but it will be interesting and they need an offensive genius coach. Chicago hired Bryson Graham as their whatever, top decision maker and good luck to you Bryson Graham. You have an uphill battle in every possible sense. Bryson is very well regarded. He's an A plus scout. That's exactly what they need. They have, they are slated for the 9th and 15th pick in this draft. They have Matas Puzales, Noah Senge didn't really play this season because of injury. We'll have to see what he brings. I'm fascinated to see how Bryson approaches what is one of the biggest challenges in the entire NBA. Figuring out whatever is left on this roster that's worth keeping around other than Bouzelis and how to build it into a competitive Eastern Conference team. There are a lot of teams that are quick turnaround teams in the NBA right now. We're going to talk about Dallas in a second. I'm not sure that Chicago is or that they should even want to be. The irony of course, being this team has lived in the middle slash back of the lottery, the play in gods, the 39 win gods for so long under a system that doesn't really reward teams in the middle. And now the NBA is poised to transition to a system that actually awards teams in the middle. So I don't know how the Bulls will react to this. They have a bonanza of cap space. They're not really like I was thinking about the Rockets when they made their. All right, we're just going to make. We have cap space. No one else does. Dylan Brooks, Fred Van Vliet, we'll try to get Brook Lopez. We're going to try to be competitive even if the timelines don't line up. I'M not sure that the Bulls have enough young interesting guys in the cupboard who are ready for that. So I'm just not sure kind of what I would even do if I were Bryson Grandma then. This draft is very important. Buzz Ellis has to pop even more. He was really good this year and Giddy is fine. Like his contract is fine. He lit it up for a couple months, got injured and faded away. His defense has never really come around. His three point shot is better. Like he can take a little bit more of them off the dribble. Baby steps there. He can hit him above the break. His catch and shoot percentage was fine. I think we know enough to know and luckily he's not paid like this salary wise that Josh Giddey is just not going to be the number one engine on a great or good NBA team. Like maybe a mediocre one. And so I don't. It's just good luck. Bryson Graham but he's very good. I know Bryson a little bit. He'll do a good job. Good luck to the Bulls. Masai Ujiri is back in the NBA as the head basketball executive of the Dallas Mavericks. Patrick Dumont wanted to make a splash. He did. Patrick Dumont wanted to get a guy who is well spoken and fun with the media and inspirational because Patrick Dumont is the opposite of all of those things. Every time he talks I just want to throw him in a closet and lock the door and take away all technology so he can't talk to the media. Masai. I mean from fuck Brooklyn to we're going to win a championship in Toronto and all this stuff. Like he's a plus at that. I think this is actually a quick turn kind of team. I expect Kyrie to be on the team next year going into the last guaranteed year of his contract and he has a player option after that. The. The prior front office. We'll see how many of them hang around. Have just been raving all year about Kyrie and his relationship with Cooper Flag. Obviously they have the rookie of the year who I picked for the year too. Derek Lively presumably will be healthy next year. That's a big deal. They have two first round picks in this draft. Their own pick and the Thunders pick which is obviously going to be 30th. They opened up some cap flexibility with the Anthony Davis trade and Flag is awesome. And I, I don't expect like Messiah Jury to come in and hit the gas and like we're going to try to contend next year and we're going to do all this trade whatever Pick equity we have. We don't own tons of our future picks because of all the trades we made to build our team around Luka Doncic before inexplicably trading Luka Doncic. We don't have to go down that road. But I think this is a good job. Like, I understand why Misajeri took it. First, they paid him a shit ton of money, I'm sure. Second, you have a potential generational superstar and a long Runway with him in a big market and just sort of infinite flexibility for how to build the team. And Masai, look, people nitpicked the decision making after the Raptors championship fair. It's hard to stay in the middle and build from the middle. Some things hit, some things certainly did not. And people nitpicked how long he hung on to the Lowry DeRozan core when it was pretty clear like you're just not going to unseed LeBron as long as he's in the east and the ceiling is just not high enough. Although they won a lot of games, he's, he's very patient. Do not mistake his patience for a lack of creativity or a lack of tenacity. Masaya Jiri is a shark. He's going to hunt every opportunity. He's going to hire a great staff around him and boy, what a time. For any members of the Raptors front office whose contracts are up right now. This was a big year. Approve it year for the Raptors and I do think they proved it. Darko Rajakovic certainly proved it, but they suddenly walked in to a whole, a whole lot of leverage. You know, he was patient with the Carmelo Anthony trade. He played the New York teams against each other. He pounces on opportunities and he's willing to wait for those opportunities to come up. I, you know, I once asked Messiah in his office in Toronto early in his tenure, like, I'm interested to hear, like, what is your, what is your player development philosophy? Like what, what kind of players do you want? Because in Denver he had this sort of feisty post, mellow team, fast, tenacious. In Toronto, he inherited this middle of the road team and he made a big Rudy Gay trade to get out of that contract and get them more depth. And he was like, I'm not going to tell you. I'm not going to answer that question. I keep that stuff pretty close to the vest. I don't know if that meant there is some secret sauce I look for. Anybody can say character, toughness, whatever, everybody wants that or it's just, I'M going to be adaptable to whatever the circumstances. But look, I know this. It's a great hire for the Mavericks. I feel for the holdovers from the Nico Harrison regime. I hope some of them get actual fair opportunities to stick around. Sometimes that happens, sometimes it doesn't. But it's a good day for the Dallas Mavericks, who are sneakily, I think, well positioned to both get into the play in conversation next year at least and and beyond that be pretty opportunistic. So big, big news around around the league and there'll be more big news the more teams are eliminated and the playoffs are now we're getting down to the real stuff. Second round. That's it for this little solo segment. And enjoy the games tonight. Second round ongoing. Let's go. All right, that's it for today. Thanks to Tim Legler of ESPN for his invaluable analysis of all the playoff series. Thanks, as always to Mike, Billy and Jonathan on production. And thanks to you all for listening to and or watching the Zach Lowe Show. We'll be back on Thursday morning unless something crazy happens in between now and then. Enjoy the games. Enjoy the second round. Thank you for listening. 21 or over in President, select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President, D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-88-00, my reset. Call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chatincut or is it mdgamblinghelp.org and Maryland Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY in New York. For Louisiana, call 1-877-770-7867. You can't reason with the sun. Trust us, we've tried. This summer, it's time to put that angry ball of fire on mute. 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