← The Zach Lowe Show
The Zach Lowe Show
Zach’s Random Questions One Week Into the NBA Season, With Kirk Goldsberry
01:29:44
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- [00:00]
Zach Lowe
This episode is brought to you by HBO max. Get ready to go back to where it all began. From the director of it comes a terrifying new series set in 1960s Derry, Maine, exploring the unsettling beginnings of one of horror's greatest villains, Pennywise the Clown. The new HBO series it welcome to Derry is now streaming on HBO Max new episode Sundays at 9:00pm all right, coming up on a loaded Monday edition of the Zach Lowe Show. We have been binging NBA games for four or five days now. First impressions, actions. I've got Kirk Goldsberry of the Ringer to come on. We're going to bounce around Zach's random questions. After a few days of NBA binge watching early in the season, I got about 10 random questions. How good is Wemby already? How close is he to being the best player of the league? Is rookie of the year a little more open than we thought? Maybe, maybe not. What team should be worried? Are the Bulls good? Who's sadder to watch so far, the Pacers or the Celtics among the gap year teams? We got a lot of big picture questions like that. The leap, we got a leap category, second tier, kind of all star types looking like they're making a leap up to towards first tier. Which of those leaps is the most significant around the league? Kurt Goldsberry. We're going to bounce around all of that, everything that's going on early in the NBA season. It's been a fun start to the season. We got a bunch of games tonight too to talk about and then maybe a little bit more as we've had 72 hours or so to reflect on the Terry Rozier, Chauncey Billups two separate indictments, separate and mostly unrelated. One about betting on NBA games, mostly linked to Terry Rozier allegedly, and one involving allegedly rigged poker games that Chauncey Billups allegedly participated in in some way with. You know, we'll see about that. A little bit more about that. It's a busy time in the NBA. I would really just like to talk about basketball though. Boy, oh boy. Okay, all that coming up on the Zach Lowe Show. You're listening to the Zach Low show presented by FanDuel. The SMBA season put the power of the sportsbook in your hands with fanduel's your way. Your way lets you create bets you can't find anywhere else. You can set your own lines or customize player props and you'll get new odds instantly. Plus with your way, you can even make head to head bets by position or player. Just download the Fanduel sportsbook app to play your way must be 21 over in president select states and 18 or over in DC, Kentucky and Wyoming. Gambling problem. Call 1-800- gambler or visit RG D help.com call 1-887-89-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut. Welcome to the Zach Low Show. The NBA season is, I don't know, four or five days old. I've been binging, binge watching. Between reading indictments, I've been bin watch, binge watching NBA games. I've seen every team at least once all the way through. A lot of teams twice, a few teams three times because you got to watch every Victor Wembanyama game. It's getting a little ridiculous. I got a lot of Zach's random questions, big questions, overreactions, hyper overreactions. I'm stoked to talk to Kurt Goldsberry this morning. How you doing, sir?
- [03:13]
Kurt Goldsberry
I'm great. Same vibes. A little World Series, a little football, but a lot of NBA basketball in the last few days. It's been great to have the league back. Some breakout performances, some question marks. I can't wait to talk to you today, Zach.
- [03:28]
Zach Lowe
Shout out. Mike, my guy, my guy. Francisco Lindor had elbow surgery. Get well. Hope it's going great. Francisco Lindor, my daughter who had elbow surgery two years ago, very, very feels very close, even closer than she was before to Francisco Lindor. Shout out to Donovan Mitchell, who was in New York for several days last week for the Cavs to play the Knicks and the Nets soft commitment to coming on Mets corner. So we'll see what happens. Mitchell, exciting, lifelong Mets fan. Okay, Zach's big questions after when did the season start? Tuesday. So six days or a week into the season? I don't know. I've lost track of time already. Are you ready? Just. We're just gonna hit you. Zach's random questions.
- [04:08]
Kurt Goldsberry
I am ready. I told you, give me any order you want. And my duty to you, Zach, is to be prepared on all these topics.
- [04:14]
Zach Lowe
Preparedness. Like a boy Scout. Were you a boy scout or a Cub Scout?
- [04:18]
Kurt Goldsberry
No, I was not. I don't know if you could tell.
- [04:20]
Zach Lowe
But no, I was a Cub scout for two years. Didn't. Didn't take. Didn't like the uniforms. Didn't like the little, like, bandanas you had to wear. My parents would fall asleep in the. The den. The den. Meetings are there dens. Just. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not an outdoorsman. I don't aspire. I don't aspire don't have any aspiration to be an outdoorsman.
- [04:41]
Kurt Goldsberry
O, good pun. Good, good topical pun there. But you did get your discipline in the swimming pool. I think that's an important part of your saga, right? Is there were a lot of early mornings for you and a lot of discipline you learned in the swimming pool.
- [04:55]
Zach Lowe
I did, and I'm back. And let me tell you, when I go swimming at the indoor pool in Stanford, Connecticut, at the gym that I belong to at 11 in the morning, and it's me and a bunch of old guys, I'm like fucking Michael Phelps in there. I feel so fast. It's incredible. By the way, speaking of aspiration, I was watching the Clippers game last night and listening to the announcers and, like, aspire is a word that you would maybe say just randomly. And I wonder if they've, like, trained their brains to just say, you know, James Harden aspiring to. No, I mean, hoping to make his 15th All Star team. Okay, Zach's question number one. I told you these are going to be crazy questions. How close is Victor Wembanyama to being the best player in the NBA already?
- [05:40]
Kurt Goldsberry
Kurt Goldsberry, first of all, I'm very excited, and for your audience, I'm very biased on this question, but a lot closer. A lot closer Zach Lowe than I, I or I think anybody anticipated. Shout out to anybody who was like, he's going to win the MVP this year. Two weeks ago, I wasn't one of those people, but holy moly. The opening night, I was in Los Angeles for Ringer Corps week, and we watched it in the theater together. That performance against Anthony Davis and the Mavericks, to me, signaled that this dude is ready. He is much closer to being the best player in the world than I anticipated at the beginning of year three. I have some stats to back it up. But first, Zach, what is your answer to this question?
- [06:25]
Zach Lowe
Well, so here's my answer. I was one of the people saying, at the very least, he's going to be in the inside of the MVP conversation. Ringer 100. Do you do Ringer 100?
- [06:37]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yes.
- [06:38]
Zach Lowe
So I had Wemby finished sixth in a Ringer 100. And when I went on Bill's pot a couple weeks ago, one of the questions we were going to bat around, I don't think we got to it was he. He framed it this way. If you think Wemby is going to be in the top five NBA players by the end of the season, who do you bump out of the presumptive top five now his presumptive number five player was Anthony Edwards. And I was like, yo, I submitted my ringer top 100 and I already have Victor Wembanyama fifth and behind the sort of holy quartet of Jokic, Giannis, Luka, SGA and some whatever order you want to put. Hard to crack that top four after 100 games. But look, I mean, do you want to do the stats? Because the stats are like it's been three games and they play the Raptors tonight, so just, you know, grains of salt. But do you want to do some stats? What stats you got?
- [07:26]
Kurt Goldsberry
I got a couple stats, I think. Which one do I want to start with? You know, he's the first player in NBA history to record 100 points and 15 plus blocks through a team's first three games. The spurs are first in that rating and I think there's two that really jump out to me. If he was a team, he would rank seventh in the league in dunks right now. And if he was a team, I think he would rank sixth in blocks. So he has 18 blocks. I think only six or seven teams have more than that. And he's dunking the ball. And the thing that everybody has said from you to me to, to anybody who covers the NBA is this dude has to get his shot diet right. Okay? This was the most cliche wimy take in the universe coming into this season and boy, oh boy, his average shot distance has gone from 18ft to 11ft. He's living in the paint. He's dunking on Anthony Davis. He has stopped taking the fade away. All of that to say he could get to 30 points a game in an efficient way with all these dunks and layups. A few threes sprinkled in, but man, it's the change on offense, Zach. It's the change and improvement on offense that is faster than I expected. It's happening in real time at the beginning of the of year three for him.
- [08:46]
Zach Lowe
I'm just going to read you some more basic stats than that, Kurt Golder. Because as middle schoolers refer to me, local middle schoolers have called me basic many times. Shout out Mia. Thanks a lot, Mia. You make me feel bad about myself. Basic dad. 33 points, 13 rebounds, two and a half assists, 1.7 steals, six blocks per game. Okay? 57% from the floor, 36% on threes, 61% on twos. You made the already the point about shot diet handles much tighter. Blake Griffin and I talked about that last week. The pitter pat. The pitter pat player efficiency Rating. You might know if you're an NBA historian that anything over 30 is a very rare achievement. It's only happened in like 27:30, something like that. 25:30 NBA seasons. Individually 43 and a half for Victor Wembanyama after three games. Now I mentioned grains of salt. The three wins have come at Dallas, at New Orleans, home to Brooklyn. Three teams that I think are likely lottery bound. We'll talk about the Mavs later.
- [09:44]
Kurt Goldsberry
Fair.
- [09:45]
Zach Lowe
That said, they're still missing Darren Fox, Kelly Linnick, Jeremy Sohan, guys who at least other the Fox is going to start. The other two are going to be in the rotation in some way. 70 on the table for the Spurs. By the way, their next four versus Toronto, versus Miami, at Phoenix, at the Lakers without Luca and LeBron and then they play Houston. Could could be off to a good start, a great start. And by the way, the bigger zoom out here is Blake Griffin and I ranked our, our top six, predicted our top six in the west after two games in the two days in the NBA season.
- [10:20]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah.
- [10:20]
Zach Lowe
And I think that my, my list at that time was 1. OKC 2. Denver, 3. Warriors, 4. Wolves, 5. Rockets, 6 Clippers. And I mentioned like I'm about a week away from just vaulting the spurs in there over somebody and we didn't get to the Lakers who are lurking there. Memphis is always going to be lurking there. And then I think there's a, there's a barrier and then we go down from there. But any team that you, I think Oklahoma City and Denver are going to end up alone at the top. Oklahoma City alone, then Denver alone. Every other team from Golden State down to the Lakers, Grizzlies has got to be absolutely crapping their pants at this because the spurs are coming for a top six seed right now and at least to, at least to fight for it. And the argument for that, as it was before the season, is that this dude is just so goddamn good that you can nitpick the flaws. You know, young guards, shaky shooting, whatever. He is going to erase a lot of those flaws. Like he erases the entire paint on defense. And by the way, the defense, it's, it's just so qualitatively better. It's not just the shop blocks that come from nowhere. It's not just the double jump blocks, triple jump blocks. It's. He's got a sense now of I own all of this. So when ball handlers even approach the paint, you start to see him understand I can cover two on the pick and roll real easily without over committing in either direction. And I can scare the bejesus out of you ball handler by just stunting at you, stunting at you a little bit. You're going to pick up your dribble, you're going to throw a lob pass and I'm going to be ready to intercept. He is like a Jedi recognizing his powers on defense in a way that is just so all encompassing. The whole thing is terrifying. Now, is he close to being the best player in the league? Yeah, but he's played 100 and whatever games like Jokic SGA. Like you got to play a couple of seasons before you really vault past those guys. But he's going to make first team all NBA if he keeps playing like this. And he's going to make the Ringer 100amuch more complicated exercise than it was two months ago.
- [12:30]
Kurt Goldsberry
And for those who value interior defense like he is leaps and bounds ahead of the next most impactful thing. And the player in this category, the spurs are allowing 29 points in the paint per 100 when he's on the floor, which is insane, Zach. And that goes up to 51 as soon as he goes out. And as great as the stats are, I wanted to ask you about this because the eye test is somehow even more impressive. And I watched the Pelicans game. I hadn't been that excited for a Spurs broadcast because I was excited for the Mavs game. But the Mavs game sort of it. It intensified my spurs interest by magnitude. So game two is in New Orleans. Right. And Zion, you could tell right away, wants to test this guy, Zion, who also looks pretty fit, which is exciting for us. But you could tell that Zion Williamson was about to go get it. And the first play of the game he did, and that the highlight went viral on Twitter. If you were just on Twitter that night, you were seeing oh my God, Zion just postered and it was okay. It was a nice he. He wy was slow on a rotation and Zion got him. And Zion's one of the best pain scorers in the world. Then Victor blocks him either three or four times in the next 13 minutes, depending on if you are on Spurs Reddit and going through the Zruder film. He had four blocks in the next 13 minutes or three according to the official scorers, but they were this category Zach Lower that our friends at ESPN are calling dad blocks, which is the backyard hoop. Yeah, yeah. Like Zion Williamson learned the hard way. Zion, of all people learns the hard way. You can't go at this guy and it was to me, just this jaw dropping eye test moment where, holy crap. This is a different level of rim protector than anybody else in the NBA. And kudos to Victor because people around the team are saying he's so much stronger than he was last year. His lower body especially is strong. It gives him this confidence to be that guy in the face of somebody like Zion. But the eye test, Zach, the eye test is crazy too.
- [14:32]
Zach Lowe
So that game, you want to, you want to have a fun little moment. About 3:10 left to go in the fourth quarter, close game, right. Zion and Derrick Queen run a two man game. Pick and roll. Zion's the ball handler, Queen's the screener. The defenders involved are Victor Wembanyama and Luke Cornett. Giant pairing. That's working pretty well so far. Yep, both of them kind of go with Zion. They don't quite trap him, but they sort of string him out to the side. Derek Queen is wide ass open under the rim. I mean, you will not find a player this wide open under the rim. And for like three straight seconds, he's wide open. Nobody is near him. He's calling for the ball with his hands up. Zion sees him and Zion is like, I'm sorry, dude. Like, there's just too many freaking arms here. Like, this is, this is like a, an elementary school pass. Like an elementary school defense has completely forgotten about you and I can't make it because there's just too much arms here. And the possession died out after that and just incredible stuff. And by the way, shout out. I, I, I would like while we're here. Yeah, I watched the Bucks game against the Cavs yesterday and against the Raptors on Friday. I mean, Giannis is, wants to table this entire discussion, right? 36 a game, 16 rebounds. He leads the league in rebounding rate. He's averaging almost five offensive rebounds a game. He's never averaged three in a season. Seven assists, shooting 68% from the floor and doing everything for the Bucks. Now KPJ has missed the last couple games. Kuzma was out last night against Cleveland, so whatever. I mean, you take that for. Maybe it means something, maybe it means nothing. And I honestly, I think his passing has leveled up again. He threw a behind the back. No, look, pass to the corner on the as the screener in a pick and roll last night against Cleveland. Hit. I can't remember who it was. Torian Prince, maybe in the shooting pocket. And it was the kind of pass you can only throw if you've mapped the floor ahead of time before You've even gotten the ball. And he's throwing more of those anticipatory, I'm one step ahead of the game kind of passes. And yet my takeaway from the Bucs, two in one start, and how incredible Giannis has been, I'm just worried that there's too much on his plate and can he. And I know some people within the Cavs were asking this among themselves, like, after last night's game, can he possibly keep up? He's playing. His defense is really good. Super engaged, super active. The rebounding I mentioned, can he actually do this for. Forget 82, 65 or 70, or is some fatigue, an injury or something going to come? Because it's. It's. He's doing everything for the team. Yeah.
- [17:23]
Kurt Goldsberry
You mentioned those top four guys. It's tough to crack for Wemby. Right. I don't think any of them have done anything to change our minds. They. The early part of the season, with. With the exception of Luca maybe getting hurt here. But Giannis, more than any of those guys, I think is leveled up and is playing at an MVP level. And this is what he has to do to get the Bucks to where they want to go as a team. He has to be prime Shaq, essentially, to get them there. And he's playing like it on the glass in the paint as a leader, you know, and he. He. He looks like the best player in the world at times. And, and it's one of those moments where you remember that he scored 50 points in a closeout game in the NBA Finals not that long ago, and he. He looked like the best player in the world not that long ago. But, yeah, ultimately I think he has to do this in part because the roster around him is diminished and he doesn't have the kind of support that you'd want to have. You mentioned Luke Cornett? And the last thing I was going to say on the spurs is like, they have to be harp happy with how Dylan Harper has looked and, and how Steph Castle has looked, how Luke Cornett has looked. They look like a much deeper team. You can't say that about Giannis's team. You can't say that about the Milwaukee Bucks. They haven't surrounded him with all these complimentary pieces.
- [18:43]
Zach Lowe
No. And look, I. The bottom line of Victor is we just got. We. We. We don't have to see this over a full season, because whatever has happened through three games, if we do see it throughout the full season, he will be the best player in the NBA. We have to see Something like this over a full season before you vault him. Even tied with a Jokic or an SGA or Giannis, who has done this over and over and over at a historic rate. But that's the conference. That's where he's going to be. He's a top five player at minimum right now for the San Antonio Spurs. All right, question number two. You ready?
- [19:16]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah.
- [19:18]
Zach Lowe
Which of these I. I call them sort of second tier stars. Making a potential leap is the most significant to Kurt Goldsberry. And I'm gonna give you a list of nominees, but I also gave you the freedom to pick your own person if you don't like my list. Okay, you ready for my list?
- [19:35]
Kurt Goldsberry
I like it.
- [19:37]
Zach Lowe
Austin Reeves, 34 A game after scoring 51 and coming in assists shy of a triple double against the Kings. Last night for the Lakers, without LeBron and Luca and shooting the bejesus out of it in a free agency year. Aaron Gordon put up a 50 burger in his first game of the season. 11 of 17 on threes through two games. Sustaining what he did last year when all of a sudden he was like, I guess Aaron Gordon's just a knockdown three point shooter in all circumstances. Jamal Murray. This is not a leap. This is a hey peak. Jamal Murray has decided to join the party when the party starts instead of waiting three months to do it. 24 a game, seven and a half assists, 60% on twos. Looks snappy. Just looks a little snappy. Chet Holmgren, 25 and 10. Seven and a half free throws a game. 56% from the field, 42% on threes. Alper and Shen Goon has only played two games. One great one, one not so good one. 28, nine and seven. 41% from the field, 46% on twos.
- [20:41]
Kurt Goldsberry
Just don't love that.
- [20:43]
Zach Lowe
Tyrese Maxey also has only played two games. They play again tonight. I'm assuming 34 a game, seven and a half assists. Has made nine million three pointers. Leads the league in threes per game, only shooting 35 on twos. And my guy, my guy never gave up. Never. Mocked him. Mocked him a little bit, maybe. LaMelo Ball, 28, 10 and 8 on 48, shooting 42% from three for the number one offense in the NBA through three games against all so so teams. Philadelphia, well, not even so so Washington, Brooklyn. But I'm taking what I can get. Do you. Do you want to pick one of those or do you have your own Goldsberry coming through like the. My favorite moment in game shows. Was on Family Feud, when the family that was trying to steal all the family members would send up their suggestions to the patriarch or matriarch or the family. And. And then that guy would go rogue and be right. That was always. Are you going to go rogue like the patriarch elite patriarch of an elite Family Feud family?
- [21:46]
Kurt Goldsberry
No. I feel like you've named my player. And it was, again, an opening night overreaction temptation, which was Tyrese Maxey and the Philadelphia 76ers. And I make this choice in part because of the ecological context of the Eastern Conference and how somebody has to be third or fourth in that conference.
- [22:06]
Zach Lowe
Oh, boy, here we go. Kirk's ready.
- [22:09]
Kurt Goldsberry
But that said Tyrese Maxey, dude, Tyrese Maxey, 34 points per game. You know, he averaged 26. All the advanced stuff is great with him. And then he plays with the exact type of Energy the Philadelphia 76ers need to adopt in this sort of. They have a chance with Vijay Edgecombe, who I'm sure we'll talk about here in a minute, but they have a chance to have a personality transplant at the top of that roster if they can somehow get Tyrese Maxey to be the face of that organization with that big smile of his and that energy that I think is really contagious. If he can take over Nick Nurse's locker room as a leader and VJ is going to bring what it looks like VJ might bring. I think there's some significance to the Tyrese Maxi leap in the context of a weaker Eastern Conference that could change how we think about that whole side of the league. I'm not saying they're at the Knicks or the Cavs level, but knocking on that door, somebody's got to get up there. And. And I think Tyrese is most, most interesting to me. My second choice was Austin Reeves, who had the game of his life last night and scored 50 points and got to the free throw line at such a high rate, even DeMar DeRozan was frustrated. By the end of the press conference. He. He had thrown up his hands when. When he'd seen that Austin Reeves had 20, 22 free throws, 24 free throws.
- [23:29]
Zach Lowe
It was a lot. It started with a two, whatever it.
- [23:31]
Kurt Goldsberry
Was, and it started with a two, but, yeah, it was of a lot. But, you know, I, I, that was my second one, because I think he's going to put up some incredible numbers in the absence of Luca and LeBron. But ultimately, Zach, I want to pay. I want to pick Tyrese Maxi, but I'm curious if that's where you landed.
- [23:51]
Zach Lowe
Maxi is just becoming a really sophisticated offensive player across the board. I mean, he's only shooting 35 on twos. That'll flip, as will the 61% that he's shooting on threes. But he's just. You just see it when a guy has control of the offense and the. The poise and the ease of just knowing, yes, it's my show and I know what to do and I know what plays to call and I know time and score and all that. Yeah, Joel is still Joel and they're going to feed him in the post and at the nail and all that. But Tyrese Maxey has it. Whatever it is, the Reaves one is significant only because I think what it portends for his future and the Lakers future, right. If he's not going to average 34 a game, obviously, but if we come through the end of this season, it's like, all right, this Guy's a legit 25 and 7 kind of player who shoots the ball well from 3. And his 3 has been up and down a little bit, but solid enough like Luka plus Reeves. That's a good building block for the Lakers going forward. That's. That's the foundation of an elite offense year after year after year. And other than that, maybe we just clear the decks in the summer of 2027, when everyone's a free agent, all the big names are summer of 2026. And just also what it means for LeBron, like, I think they can confidently go forward with those two as the foundation of the offense and rework the franchise around them if they want. And I think that would increase the chances that LeBron, assuming he's not retiring after this season, would take a one year somewhere like Cleveland or Dallas or something like that. I would say Cleveland would be. If you had to make me bet, like you got to make me bet right now, it would be Cleveland. But it's. It just, you know, I went, however, with Chet just because the reason I picked the Thunder to repeat as champions, which no team has done since the Durant stack, the Deck warriors, was they're just so freaking young that all their guys are going to be on the upswing. And the main guy to point to, like when we, you and I did our most improved player podcast, and I made us divide the candidates into tiers and tier three was star level player who sometimes gets into this conversation, and my pick was Chet because you could just see there's so much more that he's got under the Hood offensively and he's starting to show it. And I think already now part of it is that J Dub's been hurt. Caruso already got put in the concussion protocol. They've Kayson Wallace sat a game, so their guys are doing more. But you can see the thunder. Hey, Lou Dort, you want to like drive and do spin moves a little bit more like, let's see what you can do, Chet. Stretch your wings and. And I think so. He was, he was ultimately my pick, but the Aaron Gordon one is massive and lamelo. I mean, I'm still in. I. I'm sorry, I'm still in. I was never out and I'm still in. Are you out? I'm out.
- [26:43]
Kurt Goldsberry
But let me give you, let me give you some shine on the Chet Hallware case because I do think that might be the right smart guy answer here because Chad does the non glamorous defensive stuff at a very high level for that team. He's very important. And then there's like this creeping. I can be a 50, 40, 90 player next to SGA and, and be a very impactful defensive player. I don't think he's ever gonna have the sexiest game, but that's a huge piece of a championship roster and it's only getting better. And that's again like, Aaron Gordon's a nice pick too, but I just think where he is in his own aging curve suggests we're not going to get that kind of leap sustained throughout this part of this, his. His career. Whereas Chet is. Is still getting better. And I'll portend this is an. What my, my friend calls NBA puberty. This, this phase of a young player's career. And some of the markers you got to see go up. Shooting efficiency, defensive efficiency, numbers. And Chet just keeps climbing the ladder. This is such a key stage for him. Again, he's a two way star who could become really one of the best players on a championship team. He already is, but for multiple years. So I think that's probably the smartest case for, for, for the ceiling of Chet Holmgren on both ends of the court is high. Now, Lamello, I'll take the. I'm outside here. I'll take it.
- [28:11]
Zach Lowe
I don't. That doesn't make me feel good. I don't want to debate. I don't want to hashtag debate this. You know, he's always been one of.
- [28:19]
Kurt Goldsberry
The most talented guards in the league, period. Right. I think we would agree on this. He's physically gifted. He sees the game so well. Some of his best passes are the best passes you'll see a point guard ever make. It's the stuff between the ears that drives me crazy. I'm sorry. Call me old fashioned. Shout out to Andrew Sharp. Call me old fashioned. I like when guys shoot off of two feet from beyond the three point line. But wow, he's. Dude, he's, he's started on third base. Like he's a great player. And for me it's really frustrating because it's the easiest stuff that he, he has to master the shot selection and the defense. The defense actually looked good. If you look at the advanced stuff early in his career, it's tailed off. But he has the body and the IQ to play great defense, which makes it all that more frustrating that his defensive numbers continue to tail off. So until I see something I'm not, I'm not putting him in this category with these other dudes in, in your list.
- [29:15]
Zach Lowe
His defense I, I think has been a little better this year. A little sharper. Navigating screens. This team is built to be a terrible defense. Just across the board, they've got no shot to compete defensively. Look, I'm not going to do my lamelo monologue again. For the 17th time. I've kind of given up on him getting to the rim as often as I would like. It just doesn't seem like it's in his DNA. Yeah, here's all I want, okay? I watched him play the Sixers on Friday. Someday they played the Sixers. He, he dribbles up the floor on one possession and just takes this goofy ass 20 on the shot clock. Nobody under the rim, contested off the dribble three that misses. And you're like, dude, okay, time, score, situation, team chemistry. Like, this is the kind of shot that I know the coaches have talked to you about. It's just not a good shot. About three minutes later, he's got the ball almost in the exact same position, right wing, and he's dancing, he's going through the legs, stutter step. And I'm like, here, he's going to jack this thing up again. And you could see that he was thinking like, I want to shoot this. And it's, you know, actually, you know, on the first possession, he actually didn't take the shot. He rose up to shoot it and realized midair this isn't going to go well and threw the ball away on a desperation pass. So now he's dancing. Now he's dancing. And I'm like, he's rising up again. He's going to do it again. And you know what he did? Kurt Goldsberry.
- [30:34]
Kurt Goldsberry
What'd he do?
- [30:34]
Zach Lowe
Picked up his dribble, threw the ball to Colin Sexton and ran a two man game with Colin Sexton. That confused the defense. Colin Sexton pitched it back to him for an open catch and shoot three. That went in the basket. And I was like, see, man, that's all those two. The contrast there.
- [30:52]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah, that's perfectly said.
- [30:53]
Zach Lowe
Big question number three. Is Rookie of the Year more open than we thought it was going to be? Overreacting a weekend?
- [31:01]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yes. Short answer is yes. And this does not mean that Cooper Flag is no longer the favorite. It means that Cooper Flag is less of a favorite. And that doesn't mean the Cooper Flag's been in anything but good. It means that two or three guys have crashed the party. So I asked our friends at FanDuel for, for some updates and I think that's very instructive. You can guess who had the biggest move over the last week. Valdez in Philadelphia. Vijay Edcombe has gone from plus 1400 just a week ago to plus 210. And if he's going to score like he did in that first game, dude, that he might steal the race. I mean, you know, Rookie of the year, somebody's scoring 25, 30 a game, they're going to be a strong contender to win. And then the other one and one of the great moments in NBA podcast history over the last year, Chris Vernon and the guy at Target. Are you familiar with this saga?
- [31:58]
Zach Lowe
I, I, I think so, but I, I, for essentially it's a Cedric Coward 1. And, and Cedric Coward is on my, is on my list here.
- [32:05]
Kurt Goldsberry
Hilarious, hilarious moment. But also statistically a big mover. The, the Target scout that got Vernon on Cedric Coward way before anybody has moved significantly. He started at plus 9,000 all the way to plus 4,000. So is it an open race? Yes. And also Dylan Harper looked a lot better than even I thought his spurs homer was going to look. So I don't think Cooper has done anything bad. I think he's been put in a particularly tough position in Dallas. But it's because of the other guys, Zach, vj, Cedric, Dylan Harper that I think it is in fact an open race.
- [32:42]
Zach Lowe
It's a marathon, not a sprint. It's a long season. Shouldn't get too crazy when the Clippers lose one horrible game in Utah when it was like they did. They think it was the preseason because this is a real game. It's going to be Cooper Flagg's Award to lose because of the opportunity he's going to get to run the offense in lieu of like reliable point guard play and just how goddamn good he is at everything. I mean other than reliable three point shooting. And that's going to be the test for him. And that's how defenses are going to test him. But he's immensely skilled and can do pretty fill pretty much any role on either end of the court. But he's. And he's averaging 17 and 6 on decent shooting. Like it's not, it's not like some damaging start or anything. He's been great. Keyshawn George, by the way, defended the hell out of him. And the Wizards win there on Friday. That was. Or whenever that was. That was a great game for the Wiz. Cedric coward, up to 19 a game, shooting 70%. Has seven steals and no turn or seven assists and no turnovers. Averaging almost two steals a game. Just. I'm watching. I like the way he moves off the ball. Like the confidence with Lucci stepping into threes like the. In transition. He's a freight train. Like the power dribbles. I'm just watching. It's interesting. Great situation for him.
- [33:58]
Kurt Goldsberry
He's also 22. Yeah, he's also has this older guy advantage. Right. He's. He's fully cooked as a player. He's 22 years old but hasn't played.
- [34:06]
Zach Lowe
Much in the last 18 months until. Until now.
- [34:10]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah, good call. But that, that efficiency you're pointing out to, that's been his calling card. That's why the nerds flagged him early on in the draft process. It's like, oh my gosh, this guy might be the most efficient volume scorer, especially inside the arc. So I expect him to have some nice numbers in a weird Memphis situation that could go anyway we, we want. But yeah, he's a nice player. I mean again, that, that drafting apparatus in Memphis did it again. They found another good player at a position where you don't traditionally find a great player.
- [34:40]
Zach Lowe
He had to drive against Jairus Walker the other night where he just. I mean Jerus Walker's not a small dude. They're probably about the same size and just bullied him underneath the rim to the point that Coward himself got all the way turned around and had to lay the ball in backwards. And it didn't even matter because Jerry's Walker was like falling out of bounds. Vijay Edgecombe, you mentioned a lot of mid range shots. We'll see how that goes for him. Love the three guard lineup with him and Maxi and Grimes, that's plus 16 and 35 minutes. Dylan Harper, you mentioned averaging 16 a game. Boy, it looks like Harper and Castle again. It's a. It's a. Zach, It's a marathon, not a sprint. But there's a chance based on the data we have, that Harper and Castle are a little further along than anticipated, which makes the Deer and Fox thing I would classify as a good problem to have for San Antonio. Awkward potentially in six months, but good right now.
- [35:35]
Kurt Goldsberry
Good problem to have. And Dylan Harper, fantastic around the rim. Great instincts around the rim. And I know the spurs are very excited about him. They had high expectations like you said. Somehow he exceeded them. Same with Steph Castle. Nobody had low expectations for year two from this guy, but he looks like a defensive leader. He looks like one of the toughest assignments that anybody could draw. Nobody wants to try to score on Steph Castle. Real culture piece you mentioned earlier, like the Luke Cornett acquisition. I think the spurs are really interested in trying to pair Cornette and Wemby together. Some of the defensive numbers we're seeing with Cornette on the floor are so much better than the one spurs fans are accustomed to with, say, Zach Collins in that role. So things are are looking up in San Antonio. We knew they were looking up, but things are looking up faster and maybe more significantly after three games caveat than we expected in San Antonio.
- [36:37]
Zach Lowe
I love Castle. I love the spirit that he plays with. He's absolutely tenacious. He makes winning plays. He's not selfish. He plays unselfishly on both ends of the floor. And he's massively explosive going to the basket. Trey Johnson, 17 A game for the Wiz on elite shooting. He can flat score, man, and he can score off movement. He can score against contests. Love watching him play. Jeremiah Fears is averaging 15 a game. Scion James, I should have mentioned in my lamello monologue, has been pretty good. Not in this conversation. Just a shout out. And Bill Simmons, favorite player, Con Knippel, 15 game four and a half rebounds, 55% shooting. This is a really fun rookie class across the board. Flag is still going to have. There's going to be like two months where flag averages 28 and 8 and is like, oh, okay. And these other guys fade out a little bit. But it's been a fun start. Okay. Are you ready for another one or do you have other. Other thoughts on the rookies?
- [37:34]
Kurt Goldsberry
Well, it was an electric experience for me in Los Angeles. I watched the first half of the Sixers Celtics game with Chris Ryan. Noted Sixers Fan. And that was an electric experience. He. He was. He was very much enjoying Vijay Edgecombe making three after three after three. And so that was. That was fun, but I think he's crashed it more than anybody. I think I'm more excited to watch VJ Edgecomb over these next few weeks, Zach, than any of the other names, except for my spurs, who I'm. I'm biased about.
- [38:04]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, I, I love the way he's played both ends of the floor. He's a willing screener, and they have these little guard. Guard, pick and rolls that are kind of fun. And look, I don't.
- [38:12]
Kurt Goldsberry
One quick click for you. I want to. I think your. Your listeners want to hear you riff on the state, and I'm putting you on the spot here on the state of Joel Embiid early in the season. What have you seen there?
- [38:23]
Zach Lowe
I mean, he vanished in the second half the other day on his minutes restriction. First game was obviously not good. Second game better. I mean, it looks like it's just going to be a long. Like, a long. We're a long way from the Joel Embiid that we grew accustomed to the post demands, like, get me the ball. I got a double team. They ticked up a bit in the. In the second game I watched against Charlotte, but they're still kind of not there. He's taking a lot of threes. Looks like a guy who's trying to rediscover his wind, his game, his physicality. And I'm just going to give it time. Like, I mean, I have no faith that he's ever going to remain healthy for an entire season and playoff run. But this is why the Sixers were. I don't think they ever contemplated for a second trading the third pick in a way that would have gotten them out of the lottery or out of the draft. There was. I don't think they contemplated, like, we got to make a win now. Trade around Joel and Paul. Paul George. The smartest thing they ever did was like, we're just going to pick the guy we think fits Maxi and fits our future timetable, because that's what's relevant. We'll see. Paul George is around. The Zach Lowe show is brought to you by FanDuel. All right, basketball's back. That's right. We're here. And FanDuel is putting you in control. Right from tip off every day to start the season. You get to choose your reward, play it safe, go for it. Feeling bold. That's your move. Whatever your style, you're in control. So what kind of better are you however you play. FanDuel is giving you the power to choose your reward and own your game every single day. To start the NBA season. Head to FanDuel.com low to make your choice. Must be 21 or over in President select states or 18 and over in President DC, Kentucky or Wyoming. Opt in. Required rewards are non withdrawable. Restrictions apply including bonus and token expiration, leg requirements and max wager amount. See terms@sportsbook.fanduel.com gambling problem call 100 Gambler or visit rg-help.com call 1-888-789 7777 or visit ccpg.org chatinconnecticut this episode is sponsored by Anthropic, the team behind Claude. Have you ever wondered how something will affect a player's legacy? Probably. Then you spiral comparing era adjusted stats and wondering if context actually matters more than championships. That's where Claude comes in, asking follow up questions and giving you the kind of debate that actually gets somewhere because great insight comes from back and forth when someone challenges your assumptions until you find something that actually holds up. Try Claude for free at Claude AI slash low. Okay, next question and you could be Feel free to nominate your own for this one most alarming rotation hole After a week in the NBA.
- [41:12]
Kurt Goldsberry
I think we have to go with the Hawks depth, which you was one of your nominees and I'm sure you've done some work on this. I love the Hawks. I think we both love Quinn Snyder for coach of the year. But man, if Jalen Johnson and Kristaps aren't going to be around if, if we're going to see a lot of missed games from those two guys, this isn't going to be a very good basketball team. And so I think earlier in the first three games they're one and two, right? They have some winnable games this week and so I'm, I'm really laser focused on who's cleared to play and when and are we going to get a full season out of Jalen and or Kristaps, let alone Risache who are missing games already because I said earlier the third spot in the east, fourth spot, those are up for grabs. But a thinned out Hawks team, especially up front, is not going to be in contention for that kind of place in the Eastern Conference. So I had them slotted in there as a really nice team with one of the deepest rosters in the Eastern Conference and through three games they have a thin team with major injury concerns. So I, I have Atlanta.
- [42:29]
Zach Lowe
It was one of my nominees. It was what gave me. It didn't give me pause because it just could not take away from my Hawks enthusiasm, but it did give me some. It gave the rational side of my brain pause that you know their three best bench players are Nikhil Alexander, Walker, excellent six man, Onyeka Kongu. My pick for six man of the year, Luke Canard gets us to eight. It's like, okay, I like the idea of Luke Canard. Every team that has him likes the idea of Luke Canard. And then the idea of Luke Canard gets played off the floor when the games really matter. And then after that like this is the bench now they've. It's been exacerbated because Rise Sachet, Jalen Johnson and Porzingis all missed their last game against the Thunder. These are the guys that got bench minutes for them in that game. This is the entire bench. Jacob Toppin, Asa Newell. Now if there's a fun subplot from that game, he made three threes and had 12 points. TBD Cafali, Dante Luke Kennard, Keaton Wallace, who I like as a hustle guy, Caleb Houston and Vit Kreche who I like is like a 10th, 11th guy. That's the whole bench. Just saying. My other nominees. You want to hear some other nominees?
- [43:36]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah. You had some good ones you sent over.
- [43:38]
Zach Lowe
Well, we have point guard questions in a number of places including Houston and Dallas, which you will get to Orlando's bench, which was my worry spot for them if I especially if Isaac is just going to be a complete zero for them. But I think, I think they'll ultimately have enough between Tyus Jones and Anthony Black. If Mo Wagner comes back at any point during the season, Jace Richardson, Jed Howard, we'll see who wins those minutes. I think they probably have enough there. I would. I think they might need when the games really matter to have two out of Bane, Wagner and Banchero on the floor at almost, almost all the time. But the games don't matter that much yet. Portland Centers is. Is one that's on my list. They're basically just playing one. Donovan Clingan. Nine of Donovan Clingan's 17 field goal attempts this year have been threes. He just kind of looks like. I'm not sure what function he has out there other than protecting the rim. Janssen plays five minutes in the first half and doesn't play in the second half. By the way, one thing I like about him keeps his uniform like no warm ups. He's just in full Just uniform only on the bench. Just to remind the coach, like, I'm here, Tiago. Like, I'm ready to go in any time. And they're playing these like five wings, you know, I like some of the players on a team and they don't have scooters. A little worried about shade and sharp start. Ultimately, I am going to choose the Minnesota Timberwolves point guard situation. Mike Conley getting benched and playing 46 minutes through three games and elevating Dante Divincenzo. Fine. It's a move that I sort of hinted at could be possible before the season. I was surprised it happened right away. I'm surprised how little Mike Conley has been using. We got used more yesterday because Anthony Edwards hurt his hamstring. Hopefully that's nothing. They're not even playing Dillingham. They're playing bones Highland over Dillingham.
- [45:28]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah.
- [45:28]
Zach Lowe
Trust Bowens Highland as far as I could throw him in a big game. It's nice. Whatever. Tim Connolly likes him. I guess I should defer to Tim Connolly. Jalen Clark's a good defender. Taryn Shannon's been up and down. But like, that feels like a spot that if they're actually serious about getting back to the conference finals and pushing beyond that, what they have there is just not good enough. And I don't care how good Anthony Edwards is. Amazing that. So that's my pick. And I don't even know how they solved. It's not like they have a lot of stuff to trade. They can trade. They can trade picks that they've already swapped. So they're not going to be good picks. They can trade swap rights and stuff, but I just don't. I don't know. They're also got salary concerns that. So that's going to be because of their status in the league. That's going to be my pick.
- [46:08]
Kurt Goldsberry
It's a solid pick. And you mentioned Dillingham. To me. That's a glaring issue. That you went in on the number eight pick and essentially got him last year. And this dude can't even get out there and give you quality minutes in year two at a position where you need him. That's bad. And I like how you framed it, too, because this is a team that's been knocking on the door of greatness here for a few years. And Mike Conley, we knew this was coming. That's the other thing. There was this. And that's part of the reason you got Dillingham as you knew you were going to have this issue. And so to me, it's like, oh, like they, they need somebody so bad at that spot. Dante DiVincenzo can sort of pretend, Anthony Edwards, Julius Randle can sort of make plays sometimes, but you don't really want to lean into that.
- [47:03]
Zach Lowe
The by committee thing is, is okay with them. I just don't think any of those guys are better than B to B plus passers.
- [47:13]
Kurt Goldsberry
And again, in, in the context of the Western Conference being so unforgiving, like the same thing that Houston and Dallas struggle with, like, yeah, you need somebody to bring up the floor and initiate a set. Like, if you don't have that, you're going to get exposed. In these games against Denver and OKC and the spurs and, and the Rockets, all these teams, they, they will find your flaw. And we've already seen it happen a couple times with teams trying to bring it up against okc and they're just like, you need somebody to do this dude, or we're going to expose you and turn you over. So to be the best team in the Western Conference, you need to have a great point guard. And Minnesota simply might not have any point guard.
- [47:54]
Zach Lowe
You mentioned the pressing imitation. Like the full court press Pacers imitation is happening across the league and it's been interesting to watch it. Like, Boston yesterday against Detroit was pressing Cade Cunningham with Hugo Gonzalez was pressing him up and down the floor. And first of all, Cade Cunningham's averaging about 9,000 turnovers a game and needs to clean it up. Second of all, Hugo Gonzalez was very annoying to Cade. And there was one possession where there were a couple possessions where just. He was like, someone else just has to bring it up and I don't want to do it. Fine, if you have the personnel. The Blazers last night against the Clippers brought Blake Wesley in the game and just told him just press everywhere all the time. And he started pressing Harden. Done. Whoever was bringing the ball up the floor, Bogdan Bogdanovich, Chris Paul created a couple turnovers and near turnovers to the point that Harden, I think it was Harden on one position was like, yo, Derrick Jones, can you just dribble the ball up to. I just can't deal with this shit anymore. And Derrick Jones is like, cool. I'm Derrick Jones Jr. I'm not really a point guard. And he got picked at mid court. And I was like, this is kind of fun. I like this. Another quick question on my list was, do you like the Heaves rule change where it's a, it's a team field goal attempt and not an individual field goal Attempt.
- [49:12]
Kurt Goldsberry
You know, I'm glad you asked me this. I didn't expect to have this question lobbed. To me it's such a high profile platform such as the, the Zach Lowe show. I hate the thieves rule. Let me go on the record. I hate the heaves rule. We've been tracking makes and misses in the NBA for decades the same way we've learned to contextualize them spatially. Is it clutch, is it a jump shot, is it contested? We've learned to do this. The one thing we didn't need is somebody coming in and being like, actually that wasn't a shot, that was a shot. And the other thing is these three point shooters, they've been treated with kids gloves for decades now too. You can't breathe on them, you can't look at them the wrong way. You give them three free throws and now we can't even have them have the heave, which is a low percentage shot, added to their LinkedIn profile. We have to delete those. I'm fed up with it. As a professor, I think this is great inflation for the three point shooters of the league. I don't, I don't think they need it. I think they've been given enough here and as an analyst, it's a pain in the ass because now I have to freaking figure, oh, there's team number of three point attempts. But individuals don't sum to team. Why did we do this? Who was asking for this?
- [50:26]
Zach Lowe
We did it because the players were cowards, most of them, and didn't want to hurt their field goal percentage. Which is why I ranted about how much I hated the rule because it awarded cowardice. And I liked the fact that players who were willing to shoot heaves, percentages be damned, were heroes for doing it. Steph Curry and Jokic and J.R. smith and just anyone who's will just like doesn't give a shit about their percentage. Which makes me, which makes it hurt for me to say that the heave rule is working and that everyone is shooting heaves now. And I like the heaves and they're fun and so I'm conflicted emotionally by all of this. Okay, big question. Whatever number we're on, are you More worried through three games, Kurt Goldsberry, three measly games about the 1 and 2 Orlando Magic or the 1 and 2 Dallas Mavericks?
- [51:16]
Kurt Goldsberry
Orlando again. You know they are at a key stage of their growth, right? They are at a key stage of their growth. Dallas is in. Who knows what Dallas is doing but Orlando, we know what they're trying to do. Again with my latter analogy, there's some rungs here. They're clearly trying to get up the Eastern Conference. They have a plan. They have a young group of dudes. But dude. There are some alarming stats with the Orlando Magic that are not just small sample theater. Zach. They track back with their fatal flaw of last year that make me very concerned. Let me tell you something about this weekend in Orlando. Not only did the Magic lose at home to the Bulls, which I'm sure caught your eye that night, they scored 15 points on jump shots. 15 total points on jump shots. How bad is that? That is the single lowest total in that category since December 2023. There have literally been thousands of NBA games at that time. They scored 15 points at home against Chicago on jumpers. They made six of their 35 jump shots. And I think it's especially relevant and I'm not cherry picking. This is not small sample size. This tracks with their biggest weakness last year. It tracks with why they got Desmond Bain last year. They linked both last in efficiency and points per shot on, on jumpers and points per game on jumpers. I should say it's not fair to expect Desmond Bain, who makes about three jump shots per game throughout his career to come in and fix all of this. This team has a clear red flag and it's more associated with Paulo Bankero than Desmond Bain. They can't shoot. They can't shoot. They have, they have conference finals expectations and they can't shoot. So I'm very worried about that. I don't think they fixed it.
- [53:13]
Zach Lowe
I took the over on Bill's pod on 50 and a half wins for the Magic. So I'm quite concerned my answer will nonetheless be the Mavericks. But we'll get there.
- [53:22]
Kurt Goldsberry
Okay.
- [53:24]
Zach Lowe
Bain shooting slump. Fine. I'm not worried about it. The idea of Bane was not just his shooting but his screening off the ball and his movement and his second side ball handling would make their two point looks easier. Would. Would open the paint in ways that were not open to them previously. Because teams would so often switch any two man game between Franz and Paolo because they're like size now. You add this other guard who can do this, blah, blah, and Suggs missed the game already. Just held out I think for precautionary reasons. Those, those four together I think are going to be good. Which is why I'm just. I'm. I'm. I think it'll be okay. They are 30th in offense after three games. That's last they are 28th and three point rate like attempt frequency. That tracks with their past. They are 28th in. I'm sorry, they are 30th in three point shooting. Last shooting 28% also tracks. I think all that will come up. They're also 12th in shooting percentage at the rim and 29th on mid range jumpers. Those are the ones that have to come up now. They're. They're fifth in pace. They're running more. They want to run great. It's not working. I'm just gonna say this. If they can't crack a top 20 offense, you know this is my favorite set in the NBA that they have not even been in the top 2020, I think since 2012, like they've been bottom 10 every year in a league in which by the by March six teams are going to be trying to win. They can't even get in the top 20 when they're trying to win most years, a lot of years, not every year. If they can't get in the top 20, we just might have to take a break. Just take a break. Move the team to Lakeland or Tampa or something because like this is not working. And Paolo look slow start. His mid range attempts are actually down and his rim attempts are way up and they missed a lot of bunnies and they'll make their bunnies, but there are just still too many. Like I, I've been high on Paolo. I've been actually accused by the stats nerds of being too high on Paolo. And I, this is why there are still too many possessions where he just kind of walks in to an 18 footer with 15, 14, 12 on the shot clock. Not having really accomplished much in terms of running in action. And he's just not a good enough shooter for that to be such a big part of their offense. And I understand when he gets on a heater it looks old school. It's awesome. Kobe esque. Bigger Kobe, bigger. Jordan, whatever. He just doesn't get on heaters that often and he needs to just be better. But I'm, I'm withholding judgment. I need to see the big four play more. They're plus 11 and 24 minutes. I like the Silva off the bench. I mentioned their benches is like a little shaky. I'm withholding judgment.
- [56:13]
Kurt Goldsberry
It. I'm not. I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna raise the, the Kurt Goldsberry red flag over Paulo Bancaro island here. This is such a key moment for him and I hesitate to admit this. I hesitate to Admit this, it reminds me of Josh Smith sometimes.
- [56:33]
Zach Lowe
Oh, my God. And I was not emotionally prepared for that.
- [56:37]
Kurt Goldsberry
I'm sorry to do this to you. He's made five of his 27 jump shots this year. And again, I'm not cherry picking. I. I love Paolo. He's an important person in the future of American basketball, for crying out loud. But last season, among the 62 most active jump shooters in the NBA, he ranked 60th in efficiency. He has a jump shooting problem, and he's the most active scorer on the team. And sort of, that's their issue. Some of the more advanced stuff with him is not trending in the right direction at this key stage of his career. And this start to this season has just sort of certified or sort of cemented in my head the idea that he might not be getting better at this key phase of his career. So that. That's why I have the red flag on Bankero Island.
- [57:29]
Zach Lowe
First of all, I will say to you what I said to Bill, not everything can be an island. Okay? Paolo Bancaro. Paolo Bancaro. Country that is well populated with lots of people.
- [57:39]
Kurt Goldsberry
Okay, well, there's been some sea level rising down in Florida, and now it's an island.
- [57:44]
Zach Lowe
He. He asked me something. I. I don't remember what island. I think he said, like, Giannis Island. No, no, that's a. Greece is Giannis Island. It's Greece. It's Giannis Peninsula. What the hell was I talking about? Oh, I think the process will get better in ways that make his looks easier and the ecosystem will work itself out. Not to an elite degree, to a good enough like, okay, we're 17th in offense and fourth in defense, and that's sort of the roadmap for the season. If they can't get there, I'm going to be disturbed. But I think. I think the ecosystem will work itself out as they get. As they get. And just the way he's brought it in the playoffs, I may be over indexing on that, but he's brought it in the playoffs as an underdog in a way that's like, holy smokes, this guy is a stud. Okay, my choice is still Dallas, if only because of this. This. They're 1 and 2 and they're 26 in offense despite putting in 139 against the Raptors last night. And this has been through three games.
- [58:49]
Kurt Goldsberry
Why?
- [58:49]
Zach Lowe
I took a slight under on them at 41 and a half or 40 and a half. I just don't know what the identity of the team on offense is. Going to be. Yeah, they're huge. But I don't know what that really gets you. Is it going to get me a lot of Anthony Davis just floating around shooting 18 footers? Because that's not going to work. I think they're going to need a lot of time to sort out their spacing, to sort out how to get sort of quick hitting, interior passing going along, how to get Cooper Flack accustomed to being a lead ball handler. And they're, you know, they're 29th in offensive rebounding. I don't even know that's possible. They're last in shooting percentage at the rim. That will improve because they should be a team that just bludgeons you and they have to be a team that just bludgeons. You know, you can see them like because Gafford's been out, you can see them sort of wondering how much center should we play Anthony Davis. We've got a lot of minutes for them now because we really only have lively and Dwight Powell and Dwight Powell is not a guy we really want to play. That question gets more complicated when Gaffer comes back and you have two legit starting level centers they can lean on. The Kyrie absence, excuse me, half the season, most of the season, I don't know when he's going to come back because DLO is going to have one good game every four games and other than that, he's going to infuriate their fan base. That's just what happens. That's what's happened so far this season. And other than that, it's like Flag and Brandon Williams and Jaden Hardy and a bunch of young guys trying to masquerade as point guards. And it just feels stale to me. And why it's more worrisome is I don't know when Kyrie's coming back. And yeah, he changes everything. Yeah, that's. That's just a fact. It's. Is it going to be too late for him to change the fortunes of the team? And if Luca is like 32, 10 and 10 in Los Angeles and this team is eight games below.500 with a lack of offensive identity and the super size thing doesn't look workable, it's good. It could get ugly there. Like it's a little too early to go there. But like I'm, I, I test. I've not liked what I've seen.
- [60:51]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah, it looks like they lack a clear leader on the floor. I was shocked and pleasantly shocked with my spurs bias to see what I saw in opening night in Dallas. Where for the first time, I think in. In. In. In his career, I saw a player look at Anthony Davis and just take him on and just destroy him over and over again. That was very alarming to me. You combine that with the fact that Anthony showed up a little heavier than normal. But this was always going to be an experiment, and I was bullish on it. And hand up, I might be wrong. I thought they were going to be better than this, and they still might be. I think they deserve some time to let the food cook here. They have a really deep front court and figuring out rotations and rosters, like, let's, let's. Let's let Jason Kidd figure this out. But this was always going to be sort of a weird, modern NBA experiment because I think the front court is as deep as it gets in the league, period. But the backcourt is as questionable as it gets for any team that thinks they're good. Like, they have d', Angelo, as you mentioned, in aging Clay Thompson, Ryan Nemhard, like d'. Angelo. Yeah, it's, it's.
- [61:58]
Zach Lowe
But.
- [61:58]
Kurt Goldsberry
But it was. It's not a Western Conference backcourt that you would be like, hey, you know, in a world of Jamal Murray and Shay Gil, just Alexander and all these other teams with guards like Stephen Curry and Luka Doncic, it's not one of those teams. So I have been sort of surprised at their inability to dominate inside, starting with that Wimby game. But particularly I thought those indicators you mentioned, you did a good job of pulling them out. Those are the exact things I thought they'd be good at. Rebounding, dominating the paint. They just haven't been. So I'm a little concerned. I ultimately went with Orlando in part because the bar for Dallas is a little bit lower in their conference, but, yeah, it is a red flag for me.
- [62:43]
Zach Lowe
I, you know, the bar, they're going to be good at putting the bar wherever is convenient for them, because when they made the Luca trade, they publicly went out and said, we have this two or three or four. Like, our window is pretty short. And I've said many times, one of the risks you run when you shorten your window on purpose, for whatever reason, is you become very susceptible to one injury undoing that. And that is what has happened. And so now they can move the bar down and say, well, this is kind of a gap year for us. You know, we'll just, we'll see, you know, when Kyrie comes back where we are. I don't think it was intended to be a gap year, even With Kyrie being out, I think they had high expectations for this team and I it's not like I had low expectations. If people go back and listen to Bills over Underpod like I was that I think I called it the toughest Choice I had 40 and a half or 401 and a half and I think of them as like a 38 and 44 kind of team. It's more macro. Like there is a lot of Klay Thompson happening first of all but it's more, it's more macro and I'm just, I'm no pun intended flagging it. This episode is sponsored by Anthropic, the team behind Claude have you ever wondered how something will affect a player's legacy? Probably then you spiral comparing era adjusted stats and wondering if context actually matters more than championships. That's where Claude comes in asking follow up questions and giving you the kind of debate that actually gets somewhere because great insight comes from back and forth when someone challenges your assumptions until you find something that actually holds up. Try Claude for free at Claude AI Lo. Okay rapid fire two more. I'm obligated to do it because I like many other people have made a lot of fun of this franchise over the last five years. Are the Bulls maybe good? Kirk Goldsberry 20 with wins over offensively challenged Detroit or Orlando holding teams to 21% on threes through those two games are the number one defense in the league and number 29 on offense. Are the Bulls maybe good.
- [64:38]
Kurt Goldsberry
That aforementioned Orlando game is doing a lot of work here. They, they faced an Orlando team that, that, that, that almost literally shot the lights out because the basketball was hitting the lights I think instead of the hoop but they no I, I, I hate to say it, I, I like the world when Chicago is good. You know I think you know if you look at their over under it still have at 34 and a half that's right where I have them.
- [65:04]
Zach Lowe
It's up, that's up from where it was.
- [65:06]
Kurt Goldsberry
I, I think there's some wins to be had. The NBA plays 1230 games every season. Somebody has to win each one of those. I think the bulls will win 30 to 40 of those. I don't think the offense is anywhere near good enough to make noise long.
- [65:23]
Zach Lowe
Term as somebody who is their 29th rating informing that conclusion and then when.
- [65:30]
Kurt Goldsberry
You watch it, you watch these guys, you know I'm a giddy guy but beyond that I, I don't know where the points and the efficiency is going to come from. I actually like their bench Herder and Patrick Williams and I.O. and Jalen Smith. That, that, that's a nice bench for Chicago. But no, I, I don't. Do you, do you disagree with that, Zachary?
- [65:49]
Zach Lowe
No, I don't think they're good. I think they might be a little better than I thought. I mean I took the over at 32 and a half and I was saying like that's impressive by Vegas. To put it too low because I'm. To put it that low because I'm pretty low on that team. Kobe White hasn't played at all yet. That'll hurt their defense but help their offense when he comes back.
- [66:06]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah, that's huge. That's right.
- [66:08]
Zach Lowe
You know, they're starting other than Vuch at center and Giddy's big but he's not a good defender. I, I don't quite know. Despite the fact that they're starting a Coro, Trey Jones is all right defensively. I don't quite know that this is a really elite defense like this and it probably isn't. They are fun to watch. They play really hard and they play really fast both in the half court and transition, which is how you have to play with Giddy because he's not gonna have the ball all the time. And when he's off the ball, you've got to be a little unpredictable with him to keep the. And he's shooting catch and shoot threes confidently and well the off the dribble one. We'll see. Herders played well off the bench, setting a lot of screens in the pick and roll. I kind of like that. Again, unpredictable Pat Williams. Don't do this to me, okay? Don't tease me with like aggressive, confident play. Don't do it because I've seen it before and I've gotten excited.
- [67:06]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah.
- [67:09]
Zach Lowe
He looked pretty good the other day. I, I was good. You know, we'll see. It might. They might be a.500 team. Okay, last one. More, more depressing gap year. Watch so far the 03 Indiana Pacers or the 03 Boston Celtics.
- [67:23]
Kurt Goldsberry
You know, I like how you sort of contextualize the MAV situation on sort of a multi year arc to remind me of. Of what the goals have been there. And so for me the answer is Boston. Because of that. Because this is a team that I've sat on the lines with you and important moments it seems like for years. And this is a team that we thought might win multiple championships and by the way, they still might. But it's been pretty hard to watch them struggle so hard in these first few games, in part because they've such. They've set such a high standard for themselves since Brad and Joe sort of created this. This culture there. Indiana, I didn't know they were going to be this bad, but I had pretty low expectations for a no Miles Turner, no Tyrese Halliburton year for them. Boston, I thought Derek and Jalen could. Could put something together to be a little bit better than this with Joe Missoula. So I guess I'll say Boston.
- [68:24]
Zach Lowe
I took the under on both. Infuriating Bill, I think. And am I taking a victory lap? No, Kirk, because I'm not stupid. It's three.
- [68:34]
Kurt Goldsberry
You don't want to get fired.
- [68:36]
Zach Lowe
No, it's three games.
- [68:37]
Kurt Goldsberry
Games.
- [68:37]
Zach Lowe
Anything can happen. But the Pacers, I just thought, lost so much of their identity. And you mentioned Halberton and Turner. They're now, they've been down Nemhart, Matherin, McConnell, the rookie point guard. Peter got hurt right away. Obi Toppin got hurt last night. We'll see what he's. His status is so fly. But they're just down too many guys now. For me, the answer is Boston. Like, I was watching Boston Detroit yesterday, and they had a lineup where it was like, think Derrick White. They had a brief stretch with both Derrick White and Jalen Brown on the bench, which I don't think will happen very often. Derrick White's doing way more stuff on offense than he's done in San Antonio, which was predictable, but it was like a lot of Anthony Simons and just these anonymous big guys. We all flagged the front line at front court at the beginning of this. It's just like, boy, Anthony Simons is doing a lot. Peyton Pritchard will start hitting shots. There's just like, it's just because so much of it was a Tatum. And by the way, if this team's not good, Tatum should not come back this year. I. I don't. I don't see what the point of it would be, but we'll see. It's. It's a long way away from that. It was Tatum inflicted and then self slash, apron inflicted. To see Horford fitting in so well with the warriors to see Drew Holiday looks like sprightly for the Blazers.
- [69:56]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah.
- [69:56]
Zach Lowe
And Porzingis obviously has been sick again and not played, but will be good. And just like this is what this proud championship team, and they're still proud. They're playing hard. Like they were annoyed that they couldn't win that game against the Pistons yesterday. Jalen Brown had 41 points and they couldn't win. Like, this is what I'm gonna watch to beat the Celtics. And they'll be competitive and they still shoot a lot of threes. They play super hard. They're very well coached by Joe Missoula. Like, they'll, they're not going to be a 28 win team. They'll be a decent team. But I was, I've been watching them and like, man, this. 21st in offense, 23rd in defense, 24th in net rating. And it feels like that. It's like, it's been a long time since it's felt like this for the Celtics.
- [70:38]
Kurt Goldsberry
You flagged the front court and that's what it was. That's. It's the least glamorous part of the game. But they can't rebound. They have the lowest defensive rebounding percentage by a wide margin in, in the league. And if that's going to be an indicator that carries through the whole season, they're not going to win a lot of games. They're going to have a lot of second chance points. Their defense isn't going to be what we're accustomed to seeing. But ultimately I think there's this sort of loss of both the Celtics and the Pacers is what I'm mourning the most when I watch early league pass games. Both of those teams sort of dropping so significantly means the average 7 7:30pm Eastern tip on league pass is just being taxed. Like it's, it's sort of sad that, that Tyrese and Jason Tatum aren't out there, either one of them. So I, I would choose the Celtics, but I like the way you framed it. I just say, man, it kind of, it's kind of a bummer, right, to watch these Eastern Conference tips.
- [71:36]
Zach Lowe
I almost am like, can they just. When are they just gonna just sit. Derek. What? Be like, you know what? Don't waste the tread on your tires this year. That's obviously fanciful and not a real thing. You know who tips off at 7:00pm East coast time?
- [71:51]
Kurt Goldsberry
The Wizards.
- [71:52]
Zach Lowe
Well, probably them too, but the Charlotte Hornets.
- [71:55]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah.
- [71:55]
Zach Lowe
Just saying. Okay. I haven't talked to you since the two separate and mostly unrelated gambling indictments came out on Friday or Thursday. Thursday, I think one about mostly focused on Terry Rozier allegedly alerting his friends that he would take himself out of a game for the purposes of them, then betting the unders on him. And one about illegal poker rings in which Chauncey Billups was charged with being a face card to draw victims to rigged games in which they were rigged. For those victims to lose. Mostly separate, obviously, Chauncey, we've both known for quite a long time. We'll see. I, I assume his defense is going to be. I didn't, I didn't know the games were rigged. And yeah, you know, I'm used to being paid to do stuff or being a celebrity guest at places like, I didn't know what was going on. Maybe that's true, maybe it's not. We'll see. What if. What has struck you now that we've had some time to reflect on this stuff?
- [73:05]
Kurt Goldsberry
What strikes me, and I love coming on the Zach Lowe show because we talk about basketball for a long time and we watch games.
- [73:10]
Zach Lowe
We just did.
- [73:11]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah. And what strikes me, though, Zach, is 2025 is the biggest stories in the NBA are off the court and they're not good. It's either the second apron causing these, these wave and stretch provisions. It's the aspiration Kawhi Leonard story that we talked about one of the last times I was on your show. And now it's this.
- [73:31]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, Lasers Clippers last night was like, okay, Scandal Bowl.
- [73:37]
Kurt Goldsberry
But yeah, it's, it's unfortunate that we have these segments and these, these conversations. But ultimately, I think it's a crucible moment for the league office and Adam Silver and it's, it's a very, very big set of circumstances for the NBA to navigate correctly. And we're seeing reports that Adams being called to, to testify in front of Congress and gambling is happening no matter what. And getting gambling right is a huge thing for this administration to get right so that the league we love continued, the integrity of the league we love can continue to be as as high as it needs to be for us to, to love it as much as we do.
- [74:26]
Zach Lowe
The Rozier thing has left a lot of interesting questions in its wake. Let's just be clear on this. Like, the NBA cleared him. They got his phone, they looked at it, they cleared him.
- [74:37]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah.
- [74:38]
Zach Lowe
Now he's charged with this and, and I reread the indictment over the weekend. And this, this is the key sentence that's doing a lot of the work for the government in its case. Prior to the Hornets March 23, 2023 game, Rozier informed the defendant, De Niro Laster, who's one of his friends, that Rozier was going to prematurely remove himself from the game in the first quarter due to a supposed injury and not return to play further. Supposed injury is strong and I don't believe proven it anywhere. By the way, Rozier, provided this is the Key. Rozier provided this information to Laster for the purpose of enabling Lester to place wagers based on this information. That's the key is, guys, I said this on Thursday. You cannot possibly police players from talking to their friends, their friends around the league, their friends in life about, yeah, man, fucking coach is gonna sit me tonight. Or, you know, blah, blah, blah, out, whatever, like, and what happens to that information once they share it with somebody is out of their control? If you share it with someone for the express purposes of gambling on it, that's a different thing. And I think the players union and probably the league would look at this indictment, are looking at this indictment and say, I don't know that the government's proven that Terry Rozier did that. Maybe they have, maybe they haven't. And I think the government would say, well, we have this thing of them counting money a few days after the bet. That's proof. And I think the players union for sure would be like, well, okay, like if the league just used that as proof, they would grieve it. And that's the other thing that I wanted to. And this will all wash out, like, one way or another. Two things are true. Number one, the sportsbooks caught all this right away. The aberrational activity. Number two, if that set of circumstances is proven, whoever the player is we saw with Jonathan Porter, you are going to be banned for life. Everybody in the league is going to know, from players to trainers to equipment managers to everyone access to this information that you're going to be banned. Your career's over. Your ability to make money from basketball is over. What, what else was I going to say about Roger? Oh, the Heat surely have a lot of questions, right? March 23, 2023. Aberrational betting is detected. The league begins an investigation. They clear Terror Rogier. The league probably at some point understands that Terrorizure remains under investigation by the federal government. Do the Heat know? Do the Hornets know when they trade him to the Heat? Do the Heat have any recompense here? And connected to that? I could see people saying, well, if the league knew that, why did they let him play? Why didn't they put him on leave like they do now? Why didn't they suspend him? And the answer is, because the collective bargaining agreement exists and makes it very difficult to do and the union would put up a very stinky fight about it and maybe, and maybe probably win. But there's just a lot of thorny issues here, not the least of which Kurt Goldsberry is a former league employee. I'll bet you the tanking stuff stuck out to you too, right? Because there's the betting on the Unders and then there's the exploitation of tanking information. And tanking is just baked into the league. It's going to exist as long as there is a lottery weighted, however you want, that favors the worst teams. And that was almost the most interesting part of the indictment to me was that a coach who matches the description of Chauncey Billups told a friend that we're sitting everybody tonight and that friend then allegedly, allegedly went and bet on the games. Now did, did Chauncey do that, knowing that that information is going to be used that way? That's unclear in the indictment. In fact, it's not, it's not unclear, it's not alleged that he did. I don't think maybe I'd have to go reread it. But it's not, it's not what he's charged with. He's charging the poker indictment, not this. There's another one where an Orlando Magic player tells another part time NBA player, sometimes NBA player that he's friends with, allegedly the gamblers talk to this other player and say, hey, go, go talk to your buddy with the Magic, see if you can get something. And they gossip like they do. I don't know what you're supposed to do about that. That's the difference between Damon Jones and Rozier, for instance, is Rozier, the you use this knowledge for betting thing is a little vague compared to Damon Jones where there are text messages of him saying, yo, this player's out tonight. Play some bets and let me get some money. I just don't like, I don't know if there's a reckoning with tanking. Tanking is just what it is. Most sports have drafts that reward the worst teams as a way of instituting competitive balance. It's just, you know, and the, and I don't know, what are your thoughts? I'm rambling.
- [79:39]
Kurt Goldsberry
Well, yeah, there's so many things there. Tanking is interesting. I hadn't really thought about it in those terms, but yeah, I watched a lot of college football or English Premier League and rarely are those teams trying to lose. Like that's just not something that those leagues have. And so, you know, when you're talking about a betting market, the idea that a team would be trying to lose is relatively unique to the NBA and it is a fact. And if they could get to a world where teams aren't incentivized to lose, that might clean up some of this. The other thing, as a data scientist, I think it's a lot easier to detect, what did you call it? Aberrational betting, unusual patterns with player props than it is with big game money lines. Like I can put a money on the Blazers to lose at a pretty big number by myself and not raise a bunch of red flags than if I bet a bunch of weird Terry Rozier props at a big number. I think those systems are really good at flagging unusual prop bets and might not be as good at individual games. I could be wrong on that, but that's something that crossed my mind as you were talking and, and getting that right and getting the communication between that layer of safety that we have between the betting. Because one of the best arguments for legalizing betting is what we can flag this stuff now and it's all above board. And if it were illegal, we couldn't flag this kind of suspicious activity. So I think getting that layer of informing the leagues that there is suspicious betting behavior happening, I think getting that right is absolutely critical. And if they're not getting it right, we have a big problem. And, and what, what, what proof do we have about what the NBA learns from FanDuel or DraftKings as they go through these important processes? That's interest. But ultimately, I think I'm coming around to the idea. And Bill was saying this the other day too. Why do we have all these player props? Why am I allowed to bet on Terry Rozier or Jonte Porter over unders in a game against the Wizards or whatever? What, what purpose. Who is this serving? Like this is. This is. Seems like one of the more tempting things to look at to fix it.
- [81:51]
Zach Lowe
Well, and, and we have breaking news. The league sent a memo today. According to Shamshirania from ESPN. I'll just read his tweets. NBA informed its 30 teams that the league has begun the process of reviewing policies regarding injury reporting, training and education of all personnel. That is be quiet. And enhancing internal and external monitoring to identify betting activity of concern. The injury reporting is very, very important. We saw with Towns in the very first game of the season for the Knicks where he's doubtful, questionable, probable, then he plays. We've seen it go the other way where someone's probable and then they don't play. And it's all just like. Teams treat this like it's so secretive, like, oh my God, we've got a trick. We've got to trick the Cavaliers into thinking Towns might play or might not play. Like the, like the coaching Staffs haven't don't have like if. If suddenly a player is not playing, the opposing coach steps, oh, we're helpless. We got to stick with the original game plan. We don't know what to do. It's like doesn't have to be keep this secret of just make a time and make it clear now. I, I still think you could if you're tanking which is just again, it's part of the world. You could just like sit people for DNP coach's decision. As long as they're not like the Blazers could sit Jeremy Grant. He doesn't fall under the player participation policy. I think they could. And then Shams also says according to the memo, while the unusual betting on Terra Rogier's unders in the March 2023 game was detected in real time because the bets were placed legally put. Every memo is meant for the public. I mean, my God. We believe there is more that can be done from a legal, regulatory perspective to protect the integrity of the NBA in our leagues. In particular prop bets on individual player performances. This is what, you know, get rid of the unders on players who don't play very much. The injury reporting is a whole nother. A whole nother thing. It's like I don't know how many more players, if any are going to be ensnared by this, this Rozier sort of orbit. It may. It may be none. And Chauncey, the thing of Chauncey or the co conspirator that matches his description telling this guy that they're going to sit everybody before the public knows it is very problematic. But again, it's unclear if he did it for whatever purposes. I don't know. I'm just.
- [84:03]
Kurt Goldsberry
The saddest thing. Zach Lowe is this the integrity of an average NBA game and you and I will watch six of them tonight or whatever. The integrity and the public perception of the integrity of an average NBA game has gotten dinged in the last week. And that's just sad. And if this is quote unquote the tip of the iceberg, which some people are saying it is, and I'm sure you've heard that too, like this sucks. It just sucks. It's just. I don't think it's sad.
- [84:30]
Zach Lowe
Maybe I'm naive. I don't think it's the tip of the iceberg because the iceberg is much larger than the tip. If it's the tip of the iceberg, that means there's like a lot of other players underneath this. And I don't I don't think that metaphor is going to hold. Maybe I'm nice. We'll see. Breaking news before we go. Kurt Goldsberry mentioned Anthony Edwards hamstring. He is going to miss, according to news reports, two weeks. I don't think it's a reevaluated in two weeks. I just think he's going to miss two weeks. Yes. Sean's tweeting these. Gonna miss two weeks with the right hamstring. Strange sources tell espn. I assume a press release will be coming out soon. Here's their schedule in the next two weeks. Tonight versus Denver. That hurts. Yep. Versus the Lakers on Wednesday. Yeah. At Charlotte. Better try to win that one at Brooklyn. Better win that one at the Knicks. That's tough. Versus Utah, winnable. At Kings, winnable. At Utah, winnable. Versus Sacramento, again, winnable. So not ideal. But if you're a good team. And this goes back to the point guard void though, that we talked about before, this is going to really stress DiVincenzo and Conley. Maybe we get Dillingham some minutes. Finally, because of this, Randall will have to do more playmaking. But if you're, if you're a real team, and I believe the Wolves are, you find a way. Let's just say there's nine games. I just mentioned you'd find a way to go 5 and 4, 4 and 5. Stay afloat. This shouldn't just destroy you, but obviously hamstrings, all this stuff. Tread carefully, get it right, get back healthy.
- [85:57]
Kurt Goldsberry
Yeah. Well. And for those of us, you know, eager to see Terence Shannon Jr. Get a chance, like they're gonna need some scoring and I'm a big Terence Shannon Jr. Guy. I think he's gonna get a good look at some, some more shots. I think this backcourt is now even weaker and we just talked for five minutes about how they don't have a real point guard. Terence Shannon has a chance to come in and, and really showcase. I think what's a pretty high ceiling for that guy is a scorer. But it's a critical moment for Julius Randall too, to keep it because again, there's no room for error in the Western Conference. Last year it was like five teams jammed up by three games. So any kind of two weeks slump is, is going to cost you in the, in the Western Conference standing. So I.
- [86:43]
Zach Lowe
That's true.
- [86:44]
Kurt Goldsberry
I just hope they get it right. I hope it's back in two weeks.
- [86:48]
Zach Lowe
Other teams will get dinged with injuries like this across the way, but six of their next, whatever 10 games are a combiner against Charlotte, Brooklyn, Utah and Sacramento. Just win. Find a way to win. How about you find a way to win like most of those games. Minnesota Kurt Goldsberry, what can we promote? What do you got coming? I'm cooking.
- [87:05]
Kurt Goldsberry
I just did the Zach Low show. I am working on some Wemby stuff and some Cooper Flag stuff, but nothing coming right away. Going to a lot of games this year in San Antonio and Dallas.
- [87:17]
Zach Lowe
Yeah, it's a fun place to go see games. Kurt Goldsberry of theringer.com and if he's buy his books, I've got all his books. I've got his map right behind me. Me here the N. Smith the Naismith Basketball International Park. Kirk, you're the man. Thank you sir.
- [87:31]
Kurt Goldsberry
Thank you.
- [87:34]
Zach Lowe
All right, that's it for the Zach Lowe show today. Thank you to Kurt Goldsberg. As a loaded show, we got to a lot, a lot of basketball, a lot of not basketball. A lot of looking forward to what's coming up around the league. Thanks to Jesse, Jonathan and Mike on production. We will see you later this well, thanks to you actually for listening and watching. Wherever you get your podcast, we will see you later this week, likely on Thursday, barring something crazy happening in between. Between which cnba, so you never know. Thank you all for listening to the Zach Low show. Must be 21 or over in President select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 and over in President D.C. kentucky or Wyoming. Gambling problem call 1-800- gambler or visit rg-help.com, call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit MD gamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or call 800-327-5050 for 24. 7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE NY or text Hopeny in New York.