Them Before Us Podcast Episode #063: Seth Dreher from Created Equal | Culture Change on Abortion

Release Date: November 15, 2024

In episode #063 of the Them Before Us Podcast, hosts Jen and Katy engage in a profound conversation with Seth Dreher, Vice President of the pro-life organization Created Equal. The discussion delves into the pivotal role of cultural transformation in the abortion debate, exploring strategies to shift public perception and foster meaningful dialogue around children's rights.

1. Introduction to Created Equal and Seth Dreher

The episode opens with Jen welcoming Seth Dreher to the podcast, highlighting his role at Created Equal and his involvement in their signature event, the Justice Ride.

Jen (00:06): "We hope to have meaningful conversations on this podcast that center the rights of children in everything from culture to law to technology."

Seth Dreher (00:32): "It's a privilege to be on the podcast today. Thank you."

2. Seth's Journey into the Pro-Life Movement

Seth shares his personal journey that led him to advocate for the rights of unborn children. His early exposure to pro-life sentiments from his grandmother planted the initial seeds of his beliefs.

Seth (00:53): "I remember being a kid long ago with my grandparents and I heard my grandmother say something like, you know, we're pro-life. And I thought, oh, okay, that sounds fine."

Seth’s pivotal moment came in high school when he watched "Hard Truth" by Greg Cunningham, which depicted the development of babies in the womb and the termination of pregnancies through abortion. This experience galvanized his commitment to the pro-life cause.

Seth (01:20): "I just, I was so shocked watching it. I'd never seen anything like this and I thought, this is really horrible. I've got to do something."

3. The Importance of Cultural Change in Abortion Advocacy

Jen draws parallels between the current abortion debate and historical movements like slavery and civil rights, emphasizing the necessity of cultural as well as legislative change.

Jen (02:46): "If anything, we just saw that the battle is not even close to being over because kind of similar to the slavery and civil rights era, we people were not on board with the cultural side of things."

Seth concurs, explaining that Created Equal focuses on altering public perceptions through impactful imagery and dialogue, aiming to humanize the unborn and highlight the realities of abortion.

Seth (04:03): "We go to college campuses, downtown areas, and we bring with us imagery, and I can share more about that later, but imagery showing the victims of abortion..."

4. Utilizing Imagery and Public Dialogue to Humanize the Unborn

Seth elaborates on the strategy of using powerful images to evoke emotional responses and foster dialogue. He likens their approach to historical movements that used imagery to expose the brutal realities of injustices.

Seth (05:00): "Any social movement wanting to advance an agenda on behalf of this rejected group of people, you often need the victims at the forefront... they can be seen in the same way."

He cites the effectiveness of historical imagery in changing public sentiment and draws a parallel to their current efforts in the abortion debate.

Seth (06:36): "We don't have to be unkind... we want to show the true barbarity of what abortion is. So people would be disgusted by it, not want to pursue it."

5. Addressing Pushback and Navigating Conservative Perspectives

Jen raises the issue of pushback from conservative audiences who may find the graphic images unsettling, questioning how Created Equal navigates this challenge.

Jen (07:13): "A lot of people, even on the conservative side, are very incensed about showing the graphic pictures..."

Seth responds by emphasizing the historical success of using unflinching imagery to confront societal evils, arguing that respectful and honest presentation can mitigate offensive perceptions.

Seth (07:23): "If that worked before, why wouldn't it work now?"

He underscores the importance of portraying the harsh realities of abortion without embellishment to foster genuine emotional responses.

Seth (10:28): "Evil can thrive in darkness. It thrives when good men do nothing."

6. Demonstrating Impact: Stories and Statistics

The conversation shifts to the tangible impact of Created Equal's initiatives. Seth shares both statistical data and personal anecdotes illustrating how their outreach efforts have shifted opinions on abortion.

Seth (11:22): "Studies done by...found that about 67% of people surveyed said that after seeing it, they had increased negative feelings about abortion."

He recounts individual stories, such as a transformative encounter with a former opponent who became more open-minded after witnessing their outreach.

Seth (14:30): "One woman I met at Ohio State University years ago...at the end of the conversation she wasn't pro-life yet, but she hugged me and said thank you for being here."

7. Focus on Youth and Educating Future Decision-Makers

Jen and Seth discuss the importance of targeting teenagers and young adults, who are both the primary demographic for abortions and the future leaders who will shape societal norms.

Jen (15:38): "We're focusing on those age groups because they're future decision makers. Also, you have the bulk of abortions done on that demographic."

Seth emphasizes that while their primary focus is on youth, Created Equal welcomes support from all age groups interested in advocating against abortion.

Seth (17:30): "We believe that anyone, anywhere who wants to bring us out will come, will train your people and lead you to do the hardest part, which is the first step."

8. Addressing Exceptions: Rape and Incest

A significant portion of the discussion tackles the contentious issue of exceptions to the pro-life stance, such as cases of rape and incest. Seth articulates a principled approach that maintains a consistent ethic of life without excusing behaviors based on circumstances.

Seth (18:13): "I believe abortion is wrong because I believe it's wrong to intentionally kill innocent humans. We punish victimizers, not victims."

He further explains that while acknowledging the trauma of rape, the focus should remain on holding perpetrators accountable rather than sanctioning the victim or introducing severe penalties for the unborn.

Seth (21:30): "If our principles don't punish victims, well, they'll punish mom or baby. The man should be punished again. But it would not be fair to give the victimizer a few years in jail and give the secondary victim capital punishment."

9. The Justice Ride: Creating a Movement Inspired by Historical Precedents

Seth introduces the Justice Ride, an annual event inspired by the Freedom Rides of the civil rights movement. The Justice Ride aims to bring together students nationwide to engage in pro-life outreach across college campuses.

Seth (22:36): "The Justice Ride was born in 2012... our goal is to focus the nation's attention on the violence they're often overlooking."

Participants receive training in the classroom on the scientific and philosophical foundations of the pro-life stance before embarking on bus journeys to various campuses. The experience culminates in debriefing sessions where participants share successes and address challenges faced during outreach.

Seth (25:45): "We can accommodate really up to about 80, 90 students could be our maximum currently, although maybe we'll add a third bus someday."

He emphasizes the transformative nature of the Justice Ride, highlighting how it equips students with the knowledge and confidence to advocate effectively against abortion.

10. Conclusion and Call to Action

As the episode concludes, Jen and Katy encourage listeners to support Created Equal and participate in the Justice Ride. They provide information on how to get involved, emphasizing the importance of collective effort in driving cultural change.

Jen (29:06): "We'll make sure we put the link to your organization and the information for the Justice Ride into our show notes so people can see it."

Seth (29:25): "Thanks, Jen. It's a privilege, really appreciate it."

Listeners are directed to justiceride.org for more information and to apply for participation.

Key Takeaways:

• Cultural Transformation as a Strategy: Created Equal emphasizes the necessity of changing public perceptions and cultural narratives around abortion, paralleling historical movements that effectively used imagery and dialogue to shift societal attitudes.

• Impactful Outreach: Through initiatives like the Justice Ride, Created Equal engages young individuals in proactive advocacy, providing them with the tools and experiences needed to influence change within their communities.

• Consistent Ethical Framework: Seth advocates for a principled pro-life stance that applies uniformly, addressing complex issues like rape and incest without compromising core beliefs about the sanctity of life.

• Community and Support: The podcast underscores the importance of community involvement and support in sustaining and advancing the pro-life movement, highlighting personal stories and statistical evidence of changing attitudes.

For listeners moved by this episode, consider supporting Created Equal's missions or participating in future Justice Rides to contribute to the ongoing cultural shift towards valuing and protecting unborn lives.