Them Before Us Podcast - Episode #066: Jonathan Pageau on Retelling Fairytales for a Return to Truth & Beauty

Release Date: November 29, 2024

In the latest episode of the Them Before Us Podcast, hosts Jen Friesen and Katy engage in a profound conversation with Jonathan Pageau, an acclaimed author, speaker, and artist. This episode delves deep into the transformative power of retelling classic fairy tales, emphasizing a return to their original truths and inherent beauty. Jonathan shares his journey, insights on art's role in culture, and his ambitious project of creating a series of children's books that honor and reimagine timeless stories.

1. Introduction to Jonathan Pageau

The episode begins with Jen introducing Jonathan Pageau, highlighting his multifaceted role as an author, speaker, and artist. Jonathan and Katy both serve on the advisory board for the Alliance for Responsible Citizenship, a coalition aimed at developing hopeful solutions to global challenges. Jen contrasts their mission with that of the World Economic Forum, suggesting a more optimistic and human-centered approach.

Jen Friesen [00:00]:
"Jonathan has created, or is in the process of creating, a series of children's books, capturing the original fairy tales, pairing them with really fantastic art."

2. Jonathan’s Background and Passion for Fairy Tales

Jonathan shares his roots as a French Canadian who grew up in Quebec before moving to the United States. His bilingual upbringing fostered a deep appreciation for both languages and cultures. From a young age, Jonathan was captivated by art and storytelling, particularly fairy tales, which he saw as powerful tools for conveying complex truths.

Jonathan Pageau [01:10]:
"I always had this desire that one day maybe I could participate in retelling these stories in a way that would be powerful... deal with some of the issues, even that the postmodern people criticize."

3. The Importance of Art in Christian and Conservative Culture

Jen raises a critical point about the perceived undervaluing of art among Christians and conservatives, contrasting it with the prevalent mindset that prioritizes facts and data over aesthetic and cultural expressions.

Jen Friesen [04:05]:
"It doesn't seem like conservatives and Christians, maybe in the last few decades have thought that's very important."

Jonathan counters by advocating for a "beauty first approach," emphasizing that truth, when expressed beautifully, becomes more engaging and meaningful. He argues that beauty in art should not be superficial but should evoke a desire to connect with and understand reality.

Jonathan Pageau [04:05]:
"The beauty first approach is mostly realizing that when truth expresses itself in the world, it should be beautiful... to help them see that we need a desire to engage with reality." [04:05]

4. Modern Art vs. Traditional Art: Understanding the Difference

The discussion shifts to the stark differences between modern/contemporary art and traditional art forms. Jonathan critiques modern art for its obsession with transition, fluidity, and idiosyncrasy, often leading to a cynical portrayal of fairy tales and traditional narratives.

Jen Friesen [09:00]:
"Modern art... it can be about idiosyncrasy, about revolutionary thinking, about going against normality." [09:00]

He contrasts this with medieval art, where elements like the grotesque were purposefully placed to convey deeper meanings within their appropriate contexts. For Jonathan, true beauty in art lies in things being "in their proper place," serving their intended purpose without unnecessary distortion.

Jonathan Pageau [09:00]:
"The best way to understand it is about place. It's again, about things being in their proper place." [09:00]

5. Retelling Fairy Tales: A Return to Truth and Beauty

Jonathan elaborates on his project to retell classic fairy tales with a renewed focus on their original symbolism and deeper meanings. Unlike contemporary adaptations that often strip stories of their profound truths for the sake of cynicism or modern ideologies, Jonathan aims to preserve and enhance the stories' inherent beauty and lessons.

Jonathan Pageau [12:58]:
"One of the ways... to help the person reading it to understand... without being pedantic and explaining, but put elements in the story that will give insight." [12:58]

He uses "Snow White" as a primary example, explaining how the story encapsulates themes of puberty, transformation, and the balance between masculinity and femininity. Jonathan’s retelling subtly addresses contemporary critiques, such as the problematic nature of the prince's kiss, by embedding deeper symbolic meanings that resonate on multiple levels.

6. Balancing Cultural Relevance and Traditional Symbolism

Jen brings up the challenge of making fairy tales relevant to today's cultural moment without losing their original intent and symbolic richness. Jonathan responds by integrating modern insights into the stories while maintaining their foundational structures and meanings.

Jonathan Pageau [16:33]:
"Fairy tales... are really not for kids only. Their profundity is second to the gospels in terms of how deep those stories are." [16:33]

He emphasizes that his versions cater to both children and adults, offering layers of meaning that allow adults to glean deeper insights while keeping the stories accessible and engaging for young readers.

7. The Twin Sides: Girls’ and Boys’ Perspectives

Jonathan discusses his approach to creating parallel narratives for girls and boys, ensuring that each perspective is honored and that the stories culminate in a harmonious union. This duality aims to reflect the balance between different aspects of humanity and gender.

Jonathan Pageau [19:37]:
"The story of Snow White is really about... the power of feminine femininity... how dangerous it is to themselves if that power is not placed in service of something good and beautiful." [19:37]

By exploring both positive and negative facets of femininity and masculinity, Jonathan's retellings offer nuanced portrayals that encourage readers to reflect on these themes critically and thoughtfully.

8. Publishing and Distribution: Maintaining Artistic Integrity

When asked about his publishing strategy, Jonathan explains his commitment to maintaining complete control over his work to ensure its quality and integrity. Rejecting offers from major publishing houses, he chose to self-publish through his website, symbolicworld.com, allowing him to collaborate with top-tier illustrators and produce beautifully crafted books.

Jonathan Pageau [27:40]:
"The book is beautiful. We made it almost like a treasure object with debossing and foiling... extremely complex cover that, that if you see it, you'll realize it's just absolutely stunning." [27:40]

He highlights the interactive and detailed nature of his books, designed to captivate children and encourage repeated engagement with the stories.

9. Conclusion: A Vision for the Future of Storytelling

As the conversation wraps up, Jonathan shares his vision for the future, believing that his approach to retelling fairy tales is not only a return to beauty and truth but also a necessary counterbalance to the current media landscape. He expresses optimism that his work will inspire a renewed appreciation for meaningful storytelling that resonates across generations.

Jonathan Pageau [30:48]:
"I really believe in these stories. I think that this is the future... it's a more celebratory return to the beautiful stories and doing it with care and attention." [30:48]

Jen and Katy conclude the episode by expressing their admiration for Jonathan's work and encouraging listeners to explore his beautifully crafted fairy tales.

Jen Friesen [31:50]:
"Jonathan, thank you so much for your work and all your time that you've put into just making the world beautiful." [31:50]

Where to Find Jonathan Pageau’s Work

Listeners interested in Jonathan’s fairy tale series and other projects can visit his website at symbolicworld.com. The site offers his beautifully illustrated books, companion works exploring the symbolism within each story, a YouTube channel, podcasts, and educational courses tailored for families and homeschoolers.

This episode of Them Before Us Podcast offers a rich exploration of the intersection between traditional storytelling, art, and cultural values. Jonathan Pageau's dedication to restoring the depth and beauty of fairy tales provides valuable insights for children’s rights advocates, educators, and anyone passionate about preserving meaningful narratives for future generations.