Them Before Us Podcast - Episode #068: Them Before Us & Our Supreme Court Brief | The Fight to Protect Kids Online

Release Date: January 10, 2025

Introduction

In Episode #068 of the Them Before Us podcast, hosts Jenn Friesen, Katie Faust (Founder and Director), and Patience Sunny (Engagement Director) delve into a critical legal battle poised before the Supreme Court. The episode centers on Texas's age verification law for accessing pornography websites and the pivotal amicus brief submitted by Them Before Us in support of this legislation.

1. Overview of the Supreme Court Case

[00:06]
Jen Friesen introduces the episode's main topic: Texas's recent implementation of an age verification requirement for accessing pornography sites. This law has sparked controversy, leading to legal challenges from the pornography industry and other groups claiming it infringes on free speech rights.

[01:33]
Patience Sunny provides a comprehensive summary of the case, explaining that Texas is one of 19 states enforcing such laws. The opposition, primarily a coalition from the adult entertainment industry, argues that the age verification mandates threaten their free speech. The Supreme Court is set to decide whether this protective measure for children should stand.

Key Points:

• Texas's age verification law requires users to verify they are over 18 before accessing pornography.
• The law aims to protect children from exposure to harmful content.
• The opposition argues that the law restricts free speech.

2. Them Before Us's Amicus Brief

[03:57]
Jen Friesen reflects on the challenges of distinguishing ethical sex work from the broader issues within the pornography industry, emphasizing the persistent presence of minors and abusive content despite claims of ethical standards.

[05:15]
Katie Faust elaborates on Them Before Us' role in the case, highlighting that their amicus brief meticulously details the harmful content accessible to children on pornography websites. She underscores the industry's priority to maintain a broad consumer base, even if it includes minors.

Notable Quotes:

• Katie Faust [05:15]: “They would rather lose access to their customer base that is 8 to 17, than lose access to their customer base that is 18 to 88.”
• Patience Sunny [09:50]: “This law is just saying, hey, that shouldn't be happening to kids. This should be something kids should have a safe online childhood.”

[08:12]
Connecting the brief to broader societal issues, Jen Friesen references John Schweppe's work, which aligns with their arguments about the detrimental effects of early pornography exposure on children.

[12:00]
Katie Faust clarifies the difference between identity verification and age verification, addressing privacy concerns raised by opponents. She explains that age verification can be achieved without compromising personal identities, using methods like third-party verification or facial recognition based solely on age indicators.

Notable Quotes:

• Katie Faust [12:00]: “It's a one time verification where you verify through a third party and then that becomes a cookie on your browser that then any of these adult content websites can look at and say, okay, this person's verified that they're over 18.”

3. Impact of Pornography on Children

[03:57] - [09:50]
Patience Sunny discusses the psychological and behavioral impacts of early exposure to pornography. She cites research indicating that the average age of first exposure is 12, with even younger children accessing these sites. The consequences include increased likelihood of problematic sexual behavior and internalization of distorted sexual norms.

Notable Statistics:

• The average age of first exposure to pornography in the U.S. is 12.
• Research from 2022 indicates that one-third of female college students experienced choking or strangulation in their most recent sexual encounter.

[21:01] - [23:00]
The conversation shifts to societal implications, with Patience Sunny highlighting the shift from sexual licentiousness in the past to the current extreme of insufficient sexual interaction among youth. She connects these trends to widespread mental health issues and relational instability among Gen Z and Millennials, attributing them to the pervasive influence of online pornography.

Notable Quotes:

• Patience Sunny [19:52]: “We have the largest generation of the youngest virgins... that have never had sex before.”
• Patience Sunny [21:01]: “We are seeing society-wide, I would say civilizational threatening fallout from the fact that we are allowing screens to not just enter our children's worlds, but then so terribly distort them.”

4. Technological Solutions and Parental Guidance

[17:42] - [19:49]
Maria Baer, author of the digital technology chapter for Pro Child Politics, is mentioned for advocating that tech companies default to the most restrictive settings, akin to safety measures for pools. This approach would place the onus on parents to unlock content as needed, simplifying protection for children.

[24:28]
Katie Faust shares personal anecdotes and practical advice for parents. She emphasizes the importance of open communication with children about the existence of pornography and establishing clear guidelines on what to do if they encounter such content.

Notable Quotes:

• Katie Faust [24:28]: “You have to tell your kid that porn exists... if they ever see it, you can come and talk to me or your dad.”
• Jen Friesen [27:37]: “For people who are our supporters and have followed them before us, you're seeing that we're making a difference.”

5. The Role of Them Before Us and the Significance of Their Brief

[27:26] - [31:28]
Patience Sunny confirms that the Supreme Court justices are indeed reviewing Them Before Us' amicus brief, which is among dozens submitted from various organizations. The team hopes their explicit and detailed arguments will influence the justices' understanding of the case.

[29:42] - [31:28]
Katie Faust expresses gratitude towards supporters, highlighting how their unique position as a less institutional, more agile organization allowed them to present a forceful and clear argument that might not have been addressed by more traditional groups.

Notable Quotes:

• Katie Faust [31:28]: “We're able to do things that a lot of other organizations are not able to do that are going to have a very real impact on defending children's life, family, mind and body.”

6. Conclusion and Call to Action

[30:00] - [31:28]
The episode concludes with a strong affirmation of the podcast's mission to prioritize children's rights over adult conveniences. Jen Friesen encourages listeners to stay informed, support the movement, and engage in necessary conversations to safeguard children's online experiences.

Final Thoughts:

• Emphasizing the urgency and importance of protecting children online.
• Encouraging community support and participation in rallies and legal processes.
• Reinforcing the message that safeguarding children's rights requires collective effort and conscious societal choices.

Key Takeaways

• Age Verification Importance: Implementing age verification laws is crucial in preventing minors from accessing harmful pornography content.

• Psychological Impact: Early and unregulated exposure to pornography can lead to long-term psychological and relational issues among children and young adults.

• Balance of Rights: The debate involves balancing free speech rights against the imperative to protect children from exploitative and abusive content.

• Technological and Parental Roles: Effective protection requires both technological solutions from companies and proactive guidance from parents.

• Activism and Legal Advocacy: Organizations like Them Before Us play a significant role in shaping legal outcomes that prioritize children's rights and well-being.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Katie Faust [05:15]: “They would rather lose access to their customer base that is 8 to 17, than lose access to their customer base that is 18 to 88.”

• Patience Sunny [09:50]: “This law is just saying, hey, that shouldn't be happening to kids. This should be something kids should have a safe online childhood.”

• Katie Faust [12:00]: “It's a one time verification where you verify through a third party and then that becomes a cookie on your browser that then any of these adult content websites can look at and say, okay, this person's verified that they're over 18.”

• Patience Sunny [21:01]: “We are seeing society-wide, I would say civilizational threatening fallout from the fact that we are allowing screens to not just enter our children's worlds, but then so terribly distort them.”

• Katie Faust [31:28]: “We're able to do things that a lot of other organizations are not able to do that are going to have a very real impact on defending children's life, family, mind and body.”

Resources and Further Engagement

• Amicus Brief Access: Listeners interested in the detailed arguments can follow the Supreme Court proceedings, available online, to track the case's progress and the impact of Them Before Us' brief.

• Rally Information: A rally supporting Texas's age verification law took place outside the Supreme Court. Future events and online support options can be accessed through the Them Before Us platforms.

• Book Recommendation: Pro Child Politics by John Schweppe and Maria Baer for insightful chapters on pornography and digital technology's impact on children.

Episode #068 of the Them Before Us podcast serves as a compelling call to action, highlighting the urgent need for legal protections against children's exposure to harmful online content. Through informed discussion and passionate advocacy, Jenn, Katie, and Patience illuminate the complex interplay between technology, legislation, and child welfare.