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Them Before Us Podcast
Them Before Us #079 | God’s Blueprint for Womanhood: A Conversation with Carrie Abbott
00:30:36
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- [00:00]
Carrie Abbott
Foreign.
- [00:09]
Jen
Hello friends and fellow advocates. Welcome to the Done Before Us podcast where we talk all things children's rights and we often highlight other people and organizations doing great pro family, pro life work. Today we're interviewing a great friend of our organization, Carrie Abbott. Carrie was a teacher for 35 years and is now a national speaker, author and radio show host for the Carrie Abbott Show. She's also the founder and president of the Legacy Institute, which she's going to tell us a little bit about in a second. And there she's the lead educator and oversees research and development of all the resources that they offer. And in particular, Carrie's joining us today to talk about a brand new resource called True Beauty. So we cannot wait to learn more about what you have going on. Carrie, thanks so much for being with us.
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Carrie Abbott
It's so good to be with you, Jen. Great to be on your podcast and I love the work and the mission of them before us and happy to join you today.
- [01:06]
Jen
Yeah, thanks. I know Katie has gotten to join you on your show a few times. So fun. Well, we always love to start just by getting a little bit of background from our guests. So you don't have to start with the hospital you were born in. But can you, can you give us a little bit of just an overview of your life, how, how did you grow up and then sort of the highlights of what brought you to where you are today and why you're passionate about what you're passionate about?
- [01:31]
Carrie Abbott
Well, there's a lot there, so I won't talk about the hospital, however, it was turned into a Kmart and then it was torn down. So that's, you know, that's where I began in Renton, Washington, and I'm proud to have been born there. I grew up actually in a lovely family and a Christian home where going to church was actually a blessing. I say that because that's not the case for everyone, but it was for me. And it really cemented the powerful nature of just having healthy parents who weren't perfect but did their best. And the same thing with the, the holy habits that were ingrained in me as a child around a community that were just good people, just good people trying to do their best and follow God's plan for human flourishing. And that that really has been a thread in my life where I have, I am blessed to not have a lot of pain in my story. Although life brings you pain regardless of your story. That's a for sure. Growing up in, I went to public school. I was a leader in the School in, in many respects graduated there and then went to a little Bible school in Sweden where only 85 students from all over the world went. I won't go into the history of my background where I was in sports and woman. I'm a strong female, always have been. That's an important part of the story here today because God has given me opportunities to use that to bless other people. But that's where I met my husband, my one and only boyfriend. At the age of 19. He had left the UW University of Washington so he could learn more about what he believed as a new believer in Jesus Christ. And so he wanted to study the Bible, which is what we did five hours a day in that little school. And then we went to England and studied in a castle after working in a church in, in London. So the whole experience was pretty special. I met my husband, you know, we lived in a castle, stuff like that, right. Came back, got married at 600 people at our wedding. And the Lord encouraged me to be open to life. So we have are blessed with five children, some in heaven. And then we just had our 15th grandchild, which always throws people off. But we say, well, we're kind of pro life improving it, but really we're just, we're just letting God do what God does really well when we give him the opportunity. And not everyone can have children. And so I'm very sensitive to the fact that it's nothing that we can produce on our own. And it's a beautiful privileged duty to help grow up other people. And one of the reasons I love them before us is that children deserve a childhood and they deserve adults committed to their best. And that's something that I experienced, is something that my husband experienced and we wanted for our children and anyone, any organization doing that on behalf of children when things get tough, see, it's the responsibility of adults to take the heat, which we have. And so years ago, when I was pregnant with our second child, a woman in the church that I grew up and said, hey, would you go to this pregnancy resource center and learn about what they're doing? And they're going into schools and teaching on relationships. And I said, I love teens, but what are they talking about? She said, well, they're talking about sex. I'm like, you know, that's not for me. But I said, I'll do it for you. So I went in and was, went to the training and ended up being a speaker in that program and ended up being, was there eight years and became the director, started training Nationally, we wrote curriculum, and at one point in the Seattle area had 40 people going into public schools talking about healthy relationships. Go figure. So that began a very long journey for me. Teaching, you mentioned. I've been teaching 35 years. I still am teaching. I'm not a teacher in schools. I'm actually a teacher. Well, now I've traveled all over the country and in other parts of the world, but this is what I. I do regularly on a daily radio show as well. So I continue to do that. And we create resources. And I'm compelled. My personal mission in all of that, after having lots of children and homeschooling them and working for Merrill lynch and Oppenheimer, I won't. I'll just skip all that part of the story. To say that what I really get excited about is helping people live in agreement with their divine design as a man or a woman, whatever we can do to help people do that, that is our mission at the Legacy Institute as well. So there's the big picture.
- [05:47]
Jen
Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit more specifically about the Legacy Institute. Well, and even the word legacy, as you're describing, how your parents raised you to be a part of a church where I think it's so important. You said you realize people aren't perfect, but they're doing their best. I think a lot of the difference when people have a good experience with the church versus bad, everybody sees people messing up. It really is about is there hypocrisy or not, or is there repentance and people working through hardship and sin. And I made a mistake, but I'm going to do better. Or can kids ask good questions and get good answers? And so now it sounds like you're kind of. That legacy is spread on to. To your kids, to your grandkids. And so the Legacy Institute partially is about resourcing people. Right. It's a lot of teaching and training. And you said to help people live in accordance with how God's designed.
- [06:43]
Carrie Abbott
Right. I think once you realize that every person is made, the Bible tells us, is made in the image of God. But that doesn't mean we're all the same. It means we're actually all uniquely different. We're all an unrepeatable soul who will live on forever. Every person listening to us now has a unique DNA blueprint, never to be repeated again. And God wants it that way. He wants that picture on display of his amazing love and grace. And so the thing that we should offer to other people is we should look at them and say, you are unique. You are made in the image of God, therefore you are sacred, set apart. I should treat you that way from the time you're a child to the time you have silver, beautiful hair. And if everyone did that, we would give each other a lot more grace when we do make mistakes, which are guaranteed to happen because we're human. But if we follow a blueprint that God has laid out for us, then we, we make less mistakes. And that's more helpful if you want to be whole, healthy, and help other people. If you're carrying a lot of bags around, it's difficult to hug people and nurture them when you're still carrying some baggage. And I say it that way on purpose because pain is like that. It feels like a big load. And what we want to do is help remove that load so you can be free. Free to be who God made you to be. We need to see a picture of you, uniquely you.
- [07:56]
Jen
That's so good. Well, and tell us a little bit then. You have a new resource that's called True Beauty and I think is more specifically for young women. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?
- [08:06]
Carrie Abbott
Yes, in fact. Yeah, True Beauty, I've got a picture of it here that I can show you. But True Beauty, it's a journey through basically biblical femininity. And the reason that we did this particular resource is we have seen young girls and young women step into a great deal of confusion about who they are. And we know that girls take their cues from the people around them to help form their identity. Unfortunately, the data shows us that they're doing that so much on social, social media, and they're also doing it with the people around them that we now have. There was a survey done on 17,000 girls and their confidence level in who they were, their identity continues to go down. And because we're seeing this trend and we're seeing suicide ideation go up, anxiety, depression, they. They are not thriving. In fact, there's one comment from a fifth grader in this research that said she just is so stressed, she feels like she's going to blow up. That's not what you want in a fifth grade girl. What you want for her is to become who God made her to be. And even if she's not in the church, this is something people should recognize. The church is a lot of people realizing we need God's help and we form together in a, in a, in a cohesive nature of families coming together to a bigger family. But even if you're outside the church, the Bible tells us that, that God is real and he's made each person in his image, whether they know it or not, that he is there for them and that they have a design and design features that are so unique. When it's, when those are being imposed on or confused, it hurts, it hurts the person, it hurts them psychologically and emotionally and spiritually. And so we want to help young women, in particular very mature junior high, high school and college age women, to understand the lies they've been dealing with, how to offset those lies, and then give them actually insight into their own unique design. We do everything in this study from talk about feminism and the ways it went wrong to, to how awesome young men are and how different they are, to their own fertility package, which I don't find in any study on biblical femininity. So it's a blueprint to great success to being a girl. And it's also very encouraging. And we're encouraging mothers, leaders, youth leaders, coaches, anyone interfacing with girls to help them have their childhood back. And this again goes in direct connection to what you're doing at them before us. Adults need to do the hard things, as Katie loves to say, and it is hard to set aside time to mentor a younger woman. But these are our future wives and our future mothers, and these are the ones forming families. And family is always the plan that God uses not only for the gospel message, but also also for thriving society. And in fact, new research out tells us, Jen, that that a lot of people who've left the church is because what they experienced in their own family, they didn't see that faith transferred from the father and mother to the next generation. They saw a lot of adults doing things for themselves instead of their children, including divorce, which is difficult to talk about because nobody signs up for divorce. Nobody wants that. But when it happens, a child then has questions about their worth. And those are the things we want to stop. We want to stop that kind of pain. And we want to help the girls that hear us right now, the young women. I'll tell you, I know someone who was 40 who went through this study and said it helped her greatly. So I'm just telling you, it's not just for high school girls, but we need to catch them when they're young to help set them in motion for great success, for who God wants them to be and help them live in agreement with their divine design.
- [11:47]
Jen
Sounds like it'd be a great benefit then, even as someone who might be leading it that you could be getting a lot from it, even if you're not a teenager.
- [11:54]
Carrie Abbott
I guarantee it. Because most people don't. I'll just say, as a woman, I had five children and a couple other pregnancies before I understood my own fertility. How many people actually learned about that from in their church youth group? Probably zero, unless you're Catholic. And even then, it would not have been in that setting, but maybe fortunately in a different setting. And the reason I bring that up is our fertility package is part of our design that impacts all the rest of our health. It's not just about, oh, we, can you make a baby or not? It's actually, it affects every system and every emotional system and the health of your whole body, your whole life as a woman. I think most women would like to know that.
- [12:35]
Jen
Yeah, it sounds really interesting. Well, I'd love your take on talking about feminism a little bit. You know, we went from whether you want to say it's like the 30s and the 40s and whatever. It's like it was the patriarchy, and men are here and women are down here. Right. And feminism at some level was trying to, well, we need to elevate women. But what it seems like has happened is there's a lot of, well, let's talk about women need to be a girl boss, and you just need to go pursue the career, put your fertility on hold, freeze your eggs, do all this stuff, and then let's just devalue men. Let's talk about men are the worst and you don't need them, and we'll be single mom by choice. So we really just, like, switched everything. And what's interesting is men are now profoundly unhappy with a lot of what's going on. Right. But women, even though, quote, elevated in culture, are profoundly unhappy. So why do you think that? I mean, I think that was sort of the secular way to try and fix the problem. So it was like they were trying to do maybe the right thing, but they went about it in the completely wrong way. So what? How did we get to where we are?
- [13:36]
Carrie Abbott
Yeah, And I think. I mean, we look back at the time when Jesus was around. Women were not treated the same way they are even now. And he elevated women. The first person that he wanted to hear that he rose again from the dead, you know, was a woman. And that was shocking in that system. So God has always been the one to care about equality of women and to value women, but women went too far with it. And generally, what I see in the history and what we show in this is we. We don't say awful things about people and name names. What we do is tell their story. A lot of women who are leaders in the feminist movement were hurt by men or they had issues with their father. And so then they say, then the family must be broken. Let's undo the family. Let's put the state in charge. In fact, let's do something like Marxism or socialism or communism, where they don't have to answer to a mother and a father. You see that trend still going. Then they also emasculated men, and they tried to weaken men. And then they also said, I can be like a man. I can. I can be sexually promiscuous. I can go out with whoever I want. Margaret Sanger herself, who helped me, you know, start some of this, started the American Birth Control League, which turned into Planned Parenthood. She herself left her own traditional, quote unquote family and lived a life that would embarrass any woman if they had to repeat how she lived. But she felt like she had to undo what family could do, and children were part of that. So any child born outside of that marital union was at risk. That's where children started to be put at risk and continue to be so today. Because God created family and said, you two people, if you're going to become one and produce an unrepeatable soul who will live forever, I need you to take care of that baby. In fact, that's your responsibility. It's not culture. It's not society. It's not the church. It's yours. So when those two people stop taking responsibility for that and they're lied to by other people saying, you don't have to worry about that. In fact, we can get rid of that baby before that baby's born, then you can see how it's all upside down, all going back to really what some people said was a painful experience in their own family. Maybe their motivation was good to start with, but it turned very ugly. Now there are women who literally hate men. And I'll take it one step further. Transhumanism or transgender. And that identity confusion is really the offspring of feminism gone awry, where now we don't need male or female. You can be whatever you want. This is one of the biggest messages that has confused young girls and boys in the culture, which is why we at the Legacy Institute continue to teach the beautiful, powerful truth about male and female design. You would think that would have been understood, and it was years ago, and now it's been assaulted and so we'll bring back those beautiful blueprints and remind people of the truth. And I don't see these people as villains, although some of their behavior was incredibly damaging to other people. I see them as, in a sense, as victims of lies they believed. And we want to help undo those lies. In fact, people listening to us right now may have bought some of those lies and said, I talk to women who have become corporate heads of corporations and they'll say, yeah, I was told as a woman I could do anything. So I got this job. Then I kept moving forward and forward, and then I missed the window of the opportunity to have children. And I feel like I got lied to. And I will tell them, yes, actually you did, because a woman can do anything, but not everything at once. I have five children. I run an organization. I have a national radio show. It hasn't stopped me from growing, but God gave me common sense and said, you have a season where you'll be able to have children, and then after that you'll be able to produce other things and be fruitful your whole life. And that's what I want women to understand. Yes, yes, yes. But in God's timing, when it's best, and never putting another person at risk for your dreams, starting with your child, which again, then before us, you get this. This is why I love what you do, but this is why we do what we do to help people understand those blueprint. Blueprints.
- [17:37]
Jen
Yeah, I was talking about this recently of some friends. We would see these ads on the subway in London or, you know, if you're in New York City or something. You see on the bus advertisements for college age women, you know, sell your eggs or what, what are the other things you can. Or be a surrogate. And so culture simultaneously telling women, your own fertility, yeah, go work. But then also because you're the most fertile and the most healthy, sell your eggs or be a surrogate to earn money. And then by the time you're ready to have children, okay, I've become a partner in the law firm at 40 something. Now I'm ready to have a family. Like Jordan Peterson has talked about, these law firms can't keep women past some of these ages because they achieve it. And they're kind of like, okay, what else? And then they want to go have a family, but now they can't, so they have to go back to that industry and buy and sell and wheel and deal. So it's just so upside down and backwards, the timing.
- [18:34]
Carrie Abbott
It is, it is. And no woman should Sell her soul to a corporation. I don't care who they are, or even a ministry or even a good thing. You get to be in charge. You and God. Work it out with your spouse and prepare yourself for those seasons. I think that's probably what I would say if we had an overarching theme is, yes, yes, young women, you can do a lot of things. You won't do them the same as men, and you shouldn't be yourself. But don't think that you can go the corporate route and forego relationship foundations. You cannot. There's a term for what you just described for putting off family, even marriage people. The marriage rate now is at 28 and 30. It used to be much younger. I got married at 22. The reason I can do what I'm doing is because I got married at that age. I was open to life. And so I was pregnant seven months after we got married. I was working for Oppenheimer at the time, had my securities license. I just did none of this match. And they couldn't believe that I would give up that job. And I said, I'm going to a better job. I'm going to raise another human being of equal value and turn him into a good citizen and somebody, you know. And I went on and on and on. They're like, wow, you have big, you know, high value of mothers. I said, I sure do. Because that is much more important than stocks, bonds and real estate, whatever it is you're doing. You have to have sort of an attitude, Jen, when you're pushing back on the culture, telling you that mothers aren't important. They're one of the most important people on the planet. So, yes, it's interesting times. You mentioned the surrogacy and, and selling your eggs, both of which are very dangerous for women physically and emotionally. Never mind what happens with a child during a surrogacy situation. To be with your. Their mother in their mind and heart and then to be completely taken away from that most profound relationship. It's not good for kids. It's basically selling babies. And a lot of people have been lied to. One of the Kardashians, a couple of them have done this, and one of them, I can't remember which one, said, this just seems odd to have a baby like this. And she. And she was being candid. It is odd. It's not how it should go. Some people think it's being kind. For a lot of them, it's because they don't want their bodies to change because their bodies, they need to keep them in a certain way. And I. I get the pressure they're under, but that's a. That's not the right choice for the child.
- [20:51]
Jen
Right.
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Carrie Abbott
So I'll always err on the side of the child, of course. And I care deeply about the mothers as well. Yeah.
- [20:57]
Jen
Looking at your True Beauty curriculum, was there any part or chapter as you were developing it where you felt like you really had a light bulb flick on? Or maybe just something you're like, this is something that most women I know you talked about. You touched on the fertility aspect a little bit, but something that you felt like you learned or were just like, this is going to be a really essential part of this curriculum for people to learn.
- [21:22]
Carrie Abbott
Well, it's not a curriculum, it's a. It's a study. So it's 10 weeks. But I always learn when we're writing things and creating things. Thankfully, God has given me a lot of years to study and teach, and so most of it is taking what I already know and passing it on to others along with other team members to say, hey, here's just some things that might help you. I wish everything in True Beauty was taught to me when I was younger, because I didn't. And, and I think this is virtually the same experience most women have. Very few of us go through and actually learn, well, what is, what does it mean to be feminine? Can you be feminine and not be girly and, like, pink? Yes. Can you be strong? Yes. You should be. Actually. Can you be an introvert? An extrovert? Yes. We'll actually teach you your design features. Half the culture, half the people in the world are, you know, introverts. Most people don't know that. One of the. One of my favorite interviews I ever did, and this is one of the reasons why I love having a radio show. I've done it for 15 years and we have thousands of shows people can get. They're all free. Download them@carrieabbott.com the show I did on, the Power of an Introvert, Literally, the introvert's brain responds different chemically to every situation. And when you see how that happens, it's not only brings more respect, but it gives the introvert some tools on how to manage situations they don't like, but also brings other people on. You know, extroverts are continually wanting introverts to become extrovert. And we just need to say, stop it. We need them to be introverts. They're more thoughtful than you at times. Right. And again, going back to what we said in the very beginning, when we know we're all made in God's image and his likeness, but none of us are the same, that is by design. So when we look at each other with wonder and say, ah, you just have so many unique ways about you. I want to help you flourish. I want to help you become. That is the duty of an adult to a child and to a teen, a tween, a young woman, a young man. Anyone that gets in the way of that is going to have to answer to God, especially if they cause someone pain, because pain is a hurdle that's hard to get over, isn't it?
- [23:34]
Jen
Yeah. That's so good. Well, where can people find you? And are you on all the socials? Are you?
- [23:41]
Carrie Abbott
We're on all the socials, yeah. Yep. So we have the Carrie Abbott show is. Is probably our biggest reach since we're on Sirius xm. And you can find the podcast for that and just type in Carrie Abbott. And I recommend people listen because there's some intriguing conversations. We have a lot of national experts. So when you go to caryabbott.com, you'll see our. Quite amazing, actually. And then the Legacy Institute is where you get true beauty and other manhood studies and other parent material. And a lot of it's free. True beauty is not free, but it's not expensive. And we have curriculums for Christian schools and churches. We have all kinds of things to help people live in agreement with their divine design as male or female. And the sooner somebody understands how good that is. So good to be a boy. So good to be a girl. We have found ourselves to be in a position, Jen, where we're helping people reconstruct the scaffolding of common sense when it comes to male and female design. And then what it means to be a boy, what it means to be a girl. And not necessarily roles, because there are a lot of people doing different things. But you find that in certain settings, especially family, moms tend to be more nurturing, although dads are very nurturing. And they have. Because of their brain wiring, it's not because they're smarter. Right. Dads are better protectors at times. They're stronger. They also have better eyesight. It's just some very interesting things. Right. So when you start to look at design, you say, wow, I didn't realize how fearfully and wonderfully we're all made. And even if you're not a Christian at this point, even if you're just discovering faith, you can be sure you are just as valued and made in God's image as I am or anybody else who claims to know who God is. And that's a beautiful opportunity for everyone to come alive in their own graces and powers. And I encourage people to do so.
- [25:33]
Jen
It's really interesting to think that a lot of this. This kind of material and resources for people can really help the marriage decline, the birth rate decline, the transgender ideology. Like, so much of that. Men transitioning to become women is. I mean, they've been told, you are. If you're a white male, you're basically the most evil person on the planet. The only way they can get back into the oppression Olympics. Right. Is like to say, well, I'm trans now, and now you're back at the. Now you're the most oppressed. And for women who are identifying as men, they feel victimized or they're told, you know, you are victims of the patriarchy, and this is kind of their only way to get back on top versus, you're saying, once we know who we are. I know that I'm designed a certain way, even though, I mean, I'm exactly like you're describing. I'm wearing a black sweatshirt right now. I don't. Never liked pink. I wouldn't describe myself as girly girl, but it took time for me to understand I'm a woman on purpose. And while I don't fit certain interests, I still am a woman regardless of how you feel. And then it's like, what does God want for you with the interests and skills that you have? Being this. There's a book called Atypical Woman. I don't know if you ever read it. I liked that she said, when a woman says, well, how am I? How do I be a businesswoman or a mechanic if I'm a woman? And she's like, you just are one. You're a woman who's a mechanic. The way you do it is how a woman would do it. Yeah.
- [26:54]
Carrie Abbott
And how your brain wiring works. And the reason why I continually go back to this, Jen, is that very thing is when you discover how you're made, how your body actually works, how your hormonal system actually works, the tree of life that's in you. The fact that a woman should not take a test on one day because of her cycle. If she doesn't know this and she doesn't realize, well, why are. Some days I have so much energy, Other days I just want chocolate and the remote. Yes. And the more that you recognize that design feature, the smarter you will be. When I went back to get my master's in leadership studies a few years ago, I had learned enough about my own self and my own wiring, even though I was older than some of the other students. Right. It didn't, didn't matter. But I could take advantage of my understanding and even comes to nutrition and health. And also what I'm interested in, what I'm good at, it's. That is what I mean by understand who you are. But women in particular have a package and a brain wiring and design that is not like men. When both male and female respect that and know that they will defer, they will say, oh, you're good at that, not because you're better than me, but because you're different than me. We should come together and celebrate that. So you're right. But, but it isn't the same to say, well, I'm a woman and somebody says I'm a man and there's really no differences. That is probably the biggest lie. There are so many differences that when you recognize them, it causes you to be more respectful of the opposite sex. The gender ideology, the gender neutral, the we're all the same plug and play, it doesn't matter is one of the biggest lies. And it goes against what the Bible teaches us. When God, even when Jesus in the New Testament is talking to the Pharisees, they're asking about divorce and he looks at him and says, have you not read going back to Genesis, the very beginning, which I love to teach from Genesis, God brought a male and a female together, the two streams of humanity, and he brought them together in what was the first marriage. God was the one who created marriage, by the way. And then the natural outworking was another human being of equal value, a child. That whole picture is an inalienable picture that you cannot change when people die and go to heaven. That would be my goal for them, by the way, that they would transact with Jesus here now. So that can happen. But when that happens, they're going to recognize none of those things have been done away with. It was human beings trying to change God's plan that tried to rewrite laws, tried to make people think differently about God's plan for human flourishing. But ultimately, friends, none of that has changed. The battle over it continues. And what we want to do and what you're trying to do is say, there's an easier, more beautiful, powerful way. It's almost so simple. And yet we, we, we've confused people. So let's bring people back to the basics and the basics help people become their best person.
- [29:46]
Jen
That's so good. It's so encouraging. Well, I actually I'm definitely going to come and check this out. I work with teens and work with girls and so I'm excited to look at it for myself but also maybe to work through it with some other gals.
- [30:00]
Carrie Abbott
So thrilled to have you do that. You would be so good at that.
- [30:03]
Jen
Thank you. Yeah. So everyone you can go to thelegacyinstitute.com to look for the true beauty study and then you can go to caryabbott.com and check out Kerry's radio show. Kerry, thank you so much for all your work, your expertise, all the resources that you're offering. We appreciate you so much.
- [30:18]
Carrie Abbott
It's been a joy to be with you. Jen, I'm so grateful for what you're doing. You and Katie and the team at them before us and God bless you and all that you're doing. Awesome.
- [30:26]
Jen
Thanks.