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Them Before Us Podcast
Them Before Us #086 | The Org That's Saved 1,000 Babies & An Embryo Adoption Journey
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Welcome to the Them Before Us podcast. Our goal at Them Before Us is to educate and equip you to navigate tough conversations around marriage, family structure, reproductive technologies. But we also love highlighting amazing people doing pro life and pro family work, whether it's organizations or people. And today we're going to talk to Emily Burning, who's the president and co founder of the organization Let Them Live, which is based in Fort Wayne, Indiana. This organization exists to save lives by empowering women in crisis pregnancies. They provide financial support, counseling, and life coaching to help mothers choose life and keep their babies. Many of the women they support are at a crossroads, pressured by external circumstances or a lack of resources. And their goal is to walk beside them, offering the stability and support they need to choose life for their child. So welcome, Emily. Thanks for joining us.
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Yeah, thank you so much for having me. Definitely excited to talk about Let Them Live. And I just have to say I really love what you guys are doing as well. Not only have I, you know, come at the, you know, crossroads, I suppose, of our culture where, you know, children are being, you know, aborted and things like that with Let Them Live, but I'm also have experienced a lot in the, in the area of surrogacy and ivf. My husband and I have adopted embryos. So I really appreciate all this stuff that you guys do and all of the advocacy that you do in the way that you speak up for children, because we really have to put kids before our own desires, before our own, you know, wants. So I'm, I'm grateful for that and grateful to talk to you today.
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B
Awesome, Emily. Well, then I'm definitely going to make a note to come back and chat more about the embryo adoption process. That'd be very fascinating, but I'd love to start just hearing a little bit about you and your background. And how did you and your husband start Let Them Live?
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A
Sure. Yeah. Well, I grew up in a pro life, you know, household, and college was really where I kind of bloomed, I guess you would say, with the pro life cause. And when I met my husband, he really encouraged me to start a pro life organization. So I, we just kind of started this. We called it Let Them Live. We didn't really know what we were doing, didn't really know what kind of impact we were going to have. But that all came to a head, actually, just after we got married. So that would have been December of 2018. We actually came in contact with a pregnant woman. My husband specifically did. I was about three in the morning so he was awake. I was not. He was on Facebook and saw this person posting in a pro life group saying, hey, my cousin has an abortion scheduled. You know, she's pregnant. She has all of these things going on. What do I do? And a lot of people were just kind of commenting and saying, we're praying for her. You know, adoption, things like that. But Nathan reached out to her directly and asked, why is she having that abortion? And I think that was a really important question, because it's not that we don't know that women are having abortions. We know that they are. We just don't know why they're walking into that abortion clinic or why they're taking those pills in the first place. You know, what are the underlying causes? So that's really what sparked Let Them Live. So it turns out that this, this. This woman was living in her car, she was evicted, lost her job. Honestly, anything that you could think of for a pregnant woman to be dealing with, she was dealing with. And it was December, it was freezing, and it was just a really unacceptable situation. So I remember vividly Nathan nudging me awake, and he's like, hey, do you want to save this life from abortion? You want to save a baby from abortion? And I'm like, heck, yeah, of course. You know, I, I, that's. I think that every pro lifer's dream, right, to help, to actually make an impact. And I said, well, how do we do that? You know, it's easier said than done. But he's like, well, we got to give this mom all of our money in our bank account. And I'm thinking, this man is crazy. I just got married to him. We didn't have a whole lot of money. But I said, okay, let's do it. You know, it's just a moment of taking a leap. So she needed support to get back into her apartment, to have a roof over her head. Just very basic things. And we had the amount of money that she needed. We didn't have a whole lot, but we gave her all the money we had in our bank account, and she canceled her abortion and chose life and sent us an ultrasound. And that was a serious aha moment where we realized not only did we just save this life from abortion and help this woman avoid lifelong consequences from abortion, but we just figured out that there's a real situation that probably many other women deal with, and that's why they're having abortions. And it turns out that, yeah, financial instability and that pressure is one of the biggest reasons that Women go in and have an abortion in the first place. So that's where Let Them Live really started. And we just started putting it out on social media and the idea gained traction. I think it was a very much needed service and nonprofit within the pro life space. And from there it just grew and grew and grew and snowballed. And we've helped over a thousand women choose life and we raise money for them and help pay their bills and yeah, the rest is history.
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B
That's amazing. Well, and let me walk it back a little bit because, you know, more cynical people might say women are just using abortion as a form of birth control. It's because they're. They're lazy, they don't want the kid. And you know, they're. And you kind of see some of that because there are women on social media that shout their abortions or I love abortion. Right. And so there is a aspect of the community that advocates for it in that way. But you're talking about. And this. I'd probably say it's. The majority are really feeling trapped by a number of different circumstances. We've talked about this a little bit when it comes to people being homeless. That for a lot of people, if you have family, friends, church connections and something happens, someone would let me sleep at on their couch or park my car in their driveway or whatever it is. You know, like, I have a support system. But if we're talking about people who've come out of adoption and foster care, or we're talking about people who've never had their mom and dad in the home, or they don't have extended family, they don't have church community, and then these things happen. They really feel like I don't have another option. My mom interacted with someone who was on a military base, so she had resources and things like that. But the abortion clinic was pursuing her to get it done because they're trying to make money. And when she said she didn't want to get it done, they offered her a big discount to do it. So it's. So they're both being pursued by the people that want to want the money to take their baby and they don't have the other support. So, yeah, just help us understand more of, like, what are some of the things that the women you've been helping face? Why are. Like you said, why are they there? What are a bunch of those issues?
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Yeah, these dynamics are really important to understand. Like you said, there's. There are cynical people, There are people that are saying those things. The women that are, you know, kind of out there that are, you know, saying, shot your abortion. And these, they are the exception, not the rule. The women who kind of fall into the category of the majority are women that, like you said, they don't have support. It's sometimes hard for people like myself to fathom or put ourselves in someone else's shoes, where maybe they aged out of the foster care system or maybe they just didn't have a good home life. For us, it's a little difficult because I'm thinking, well, if I'm in a crisis pregnancy, I would have all the support. Well, that's just not the case for a majority of these women. And so that's where let them live in organizations like Let Them Live Step In. We are that support. They are facing pressures, not just financially, but the finances I see really get the ball rolling. They could then face pressure from their boyfriend or their husband that backs them into a corner. And then, like you said, the abortion industry is pursuing these women because it's a paycheck for them. Unfortunately, there's organizations now, nonprofits, that are like, let them live, but just on the other side that actually fund and raise money to fund abortions and travel for abortions and things like that. And so there's all of these things going on in this woman's life. On top of her dealing with this fact that she's pregnant and she wasn't expecting it. She is scared, she's alone. She doesn't have that support. She could be just dealing with mental health issues as well. A lot of these women come from backgrounds of not great home lives. They're dealing with past traumas. Maybe they've had an abortion in the past. Whatever it is, it's layered. And so it's really important, I think, for us not just let them live in our pregnancy counselors, but for everybody, whether you're pro life, pro choice, you don't have an opinion, which you should. But whatever it is, it's important that we come at this with compassion. It's important that we take a step back and kind of pause the political side of the debate and understand where these women are coming from. It doesn't mean that we justify their thoughts on, you know, having an abortion or say, oh, that's a totally fine choice, but it just means that we help them to slow down. We understand where they're coming from, we give them some empathy and we say, hey, we're going to help you. And that's really where the community comes in. These women are just Needing someone to come in, whether that's just to be a friend or also to provide practical support. And it's life changing. Literally. It's a life or death issue. And just even our reaction to a woman telling us that she's pregnant can change the game. So it's important how we react. It's important that we understand where women are coming from, their situations, and that not everyone has the same situation. The same, you know, economic situation, the same familia, familial support situation as well.
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Take us through from, from the first time someone contacts you for help, what would that, you know, woman shows up, you can kind of make a scenario or just give us an example, but don't use someone's name or whatever, but tell us kind of what would happen from the first time she reaches out for help or you hear about her to kind of where she would, I don't know, like, do you discontinue the financial help at some point when someone's on their feet or just walk us through that process?
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A
I can talk about that for sure. Yeah. So it's very different from, for every woman that the type and amount and length of support, but the intake process is the same. And we actually, I really love LEOP and LIFT because we approach things from an innovative mindset. We really like to be effective and just help as many women as possible. So we actually employ a triage system similar to the emergency room. So it's really important that we distinguish between women who have abortions scheduled or are, you know, they have the pills in hand versus women who aren't even considering abortion at all because there are plenty of pregnant women that we can help. But as a nonprofit that is not, you know, funded forever with all the resources possible, it's really important that we steward that money. And for us, it's. It's life and death. So we need to make sure we're kind of triaging and taking those emergency cases first. So a woman comes in, we triage her, and she's assigned sort of a color, right? And that is if she's red, that means she's going to have this abortion. We gotta act right now. That's an emergency situation. If she's not even considering abortion at all, it's never been on her radar. She's green. We're not just going to abandon our green moms, but we are going to make sure that they're connected with resources and, and things like that. But our financial support and our major support is really reserved for those, those red moms so once they are triaged, they're going to get connected to their pregnancy counselor, and the pregnancy counselor is going to really go in depth with them. What is going on? Tell us everything. And honesty is the best policy here, because we're not here to judge. We have probably heard it all before. We have heard so many different scenarios and things. So it's the mom's time to kind of dump everything out and share with us. That way, we are the pregnancy counselor, along with the financial team, can build a financial plan or some sort of plan of action for them that helps them to see, okay, here's the steps we're going to take. You know, baby steps, whether that's us helping them to find a job, them attending our support groups, whatever that looks like, but our financial plans that we make for our moms who. Who, you know are going to cancel their abortions, that can look something like, hey, we're going to help you with, you know, six months of rent and four months of groceries and three months of utilities, depending on the mom's situation. And all of those are really tapered because our ultimate goal is to get them back on their feet. And that's what moms really want. I think we live in a culture that says, well, if you're going to make this mom choose life, then you need to be paying her bills for the next 18 years. And I actually had a mom who responded to that, and I never thought about it this way, but she said, that's actually really insulting that you would think that I couldn't provide for my child as a mom. I want to provide for my child. I don't want to have to have this help forever. So our goal, if we do our jobs right, we are helping them to slowly get back up on their feet, whether that's finding a new job. But we're going to help them alleviate some of that financial burden, that emotional burden, that support as well, during that period and that transition period. So hopefully that all happens during their pregnancy, which it does. I think we have a very successful model. When we partner with local pregnancy sources or resources centers and other, you know, nonprofits, we have a 98% success rate. So 98% of women who come to us who have abortions scheduled are canceling them with. With our support, which is really amazing. So that's kind of the general process. And there's never, like an end date, essentially, of a relationship that we have with the mom. It certainly depends on the type of relationship that she wants. Some moms are just really wanting to help. And then that's kind of where it goes. And they have their baby and they say, thank you so much, I appreciate that. And that's that. Other moms, you know, I'm still in touch with from years ago, their babies are turning five, six years old, and I'm still in touch with those moms and, you know, supporting them however I can. So it just really depends, you're saying.
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Too, even when some of those. When they go into that pregnancy counselor and they lay out, I have no money in savings, my car doesn't work, I'm about to get evicted, I don't have money for groceries. Yeah, I have to do an abortion. I can't, you know, I can barely take care of myself. And someone can address each of those practical issues. All of a sudden, it becomes feasible. I remember someone shared a story of someone outside of an abortion clinic. They were calling out to her, hey, like, we want to help you. If there's anything we can do, come talk to us. And she came over and talked and said, I don't have a car, so I can't go to doctor's appointments. That's why I'm choosing abortion. And they said right there, who's willing to give her rides anytime she wanted? And someone was like, I'll give you a ride. Or, you know, a few people. That was the difference between her choosing life or not. So it's really neat that it's so practical that it can help. And you're literally. You said you saved. You've helped over a thousand, you know, a thousand moms. It's a thousand lives that are saved just because someone's saying, I'll donate money so you can get groceries and things like that.
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A
And it's so crazy that it's just that simple. You know, I always say we live in 20, 25. There is no reason women should feel like they have to choose an abortion or that they're backed into a corner like we, especially in the United States, we have all the resources available to us. We're going to figure it out. And that's what we tell our moms. We're going to figure it out. We got you. Don't worry. We'll figure it out. You don't have to do this. And. And they don't want to. They don't want to. They just. They don't know what else to do.
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Well, and it's funny because the, you know, sort of the pro choice side talks about choice, but in so many of these scenarios, the women actually don't feel like they have a choice. They feel like this is my only option. They're being pursued. We'll give you a discount. Come get your abortion today. 50% off or whatever. They don't. They're not doing it because they feel like they have good choices and your organization's actually offering them choices and then they're overwhelmingly choosing life, which is great.
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Yeah. And we actually have pro choice donors, which is wild, and I never would have expected that. But there are people that say, you know what? There, there actually is this sort of monopoly that the abortion industry has on vulnerable women, which is very sad. And they don't actually know about their choices. So we're going to donate to let them live. And I say bring it on. I'd love your donations and maybe we'll change your mind in the process. But truly that's where we're at. And I think it's pretty sad in 2025 that there is a lack of access to information about other options besides abortion. But like I said, I think abortion has just been the loudest voice in the room essentially for so long that it's kind of become the default. But we're here to change that.
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We're also seeing a theme, I would say in a number of interviews with organizations I've done of really working hard to, to have the mom be able to keep her baby with her whenever possible. And not that like from the then before us perspective, when it's properly understood, adoption and foster care can be beautiful. That's adults sacrificing for children who have lost something. But we would still say 100% of the time it's I. The ideal is that mom and dad can keep their children with them and have the support and resources they need. That's the best for kids. One mom, there was an organization I interviewed a little bit ago and they talked about, they do some respite and things like that for moms who are struggling with addiction and different things. So instead of the child being taken and put into the system because the mom can't care for the baby, they try to get there before and say, hey, you know, for your two weeks in rehab, the child's going to be with a grandmother type figure. And so it is neat to see a little bit of a shift not away from adoption because again, it can still be a beautiful thing and necessary in some cases, but really working hard to say, how can we help the mom stay like the baby stay with his or her mom?
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A
You make a good point. Only One mom out of all the women that we've helped has chosen adoption. So I think I used to be kind of the pro life person who would always just say adoption, adoption. Which it is beautiful. My sister in law was adopted. Like I know so many people who have been adopted out of foster care system. But like you said, I mean, ideally it's really great to keep children with their biological parents or their biological mom. And we know that we don't live in an ideal world and many times that doesn't pan out. But it is really amazing to see that. And the data from Let Them Live, I guess does show that that is parenting is the most common option for women to take. And of course there's other things that can come out of that, but absolutely, it's the most amazing thing. And Nathan and I have even personally stepped in. We had a mom, she had a late term abortion scheduled and she just wasn't in the space at the time to be a mom. I think she really did have the potential to kind of step up and start being a mom. But we actually stepped in along with our counseling director and we actually fostered the baby. She was just saying, hey, the baby can just go to foster care. And we were like, no, no, no, no, that's not, that's. We're going to be able to step in before that. So we kind of unofficially fostered the baby and she was reunited with her mom. Mom is doing great. She has the skills and everything she needs now to be a parent. And that's a beautiful, that's a beautiful situation. But we have lived that, we have experienced that. So I can definitely kind of understand the, this, the whole arena of adoption, parenting, all the different options that can come in between as well.
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B
What would you say are the biggest hurdles that you guys face as an organization in trying to help women?
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A
One of the biggest hurdles I would say is the fact that we can't make women accept our help. I think that's just a really difficult thing that a lot of our counselors have to learn as they start with Let them live and continue working with Let them live is it's one of the most frustrating things. Nathan and I used to just do all the counseling and helping of moms ourselves before we've, we've grown. And we at firsthand understand the frustration of really knowing that we can help someone, that we have the resources to do it, that we can help them, you know, turn their life around and make a great choice, but that at the end of the day we can't make them accept our help. And that's really frustrating and it's hard on everyone. That's, that's one of the biggest things. But I will say I think our approach has gotten better and better. Obviously funding, I would love more funding. I mean, we've been doing a great job. The Lord has really like, provided for us. You know, we started let them live with nothing. And we've raised, I think, close to $15 million. And it's just so crazy how that's happened. But there's so many moms that need our help. There's so many women who are needing to know that they have this other option. And of course, if I had all the money in the world, we could do so much more with that. So. But also, you know, it's a spiritual battle. I believe, as a Christian, I believe that this is a seriously spiritual battle. I think that Satan goes after the family, the family unit. This is something I'm sure you guys talk about a lot in many different cases, in different areas. But abortion is a really destructive thing. So when we're actively fighting against abortion, the spiritual battle is real for. Nathan and I were also married, so, you know, that's a, that's an elevated problem sometimes when we're married and we're fighting this issue together and you know, it's, it's. The enemy just likes to attack and you know, opposition, of course, from lots of different people. But I think at the end of the day, what really pushes us forward is just the testimonies from our moms and their babies. I have a picture of a baby right now on my desk that says remember who you do it for. So that's what gets us through all the different struggles, all the, you know, behind the scenes things and you know, reminds us that we have to just help the next mom as much as we can. Yeah.
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B
Yeah. Emily, that's awesome. Well, you mentioned this earlier that you are in the embryo adoption process. If you want to share, you know, as much as, or little as you would like to, I'd love to hear about your experience with that.
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A
I'm very open about it. I love to share it. So a few years ago, Nathan and I kind of started looking into why we weren't getting pregnant. We've been married for almost seven years, so it's kind of like you should be pregnant. And yeah, found out that we were having some difficulty there. So my mother in law had actually heard on the radio through Focus on the Family about embryo adoption through Snowflakes. Embryo adoption and we looked into it, and it just felt right. We just prayed about it, and it just felt like a match. So a few years ago, we actually adopted 15 embryos. We did it through their Open Hearts program, which is a special program within Snowflakes, kind of dedicated to getting those embryos adopted that aren't being adopted out for one reason or another. Maybe they're older, maybe they did have some genetic testing done that wasn't, you know, the best outcome. Maybe there's just so many of them. Whatever it is, Nathan and I just felt called to kind of adopt the ones that weren't being adopted. So we adopted 15 from one family. They were actually older than me. So they were created in 1994. And so we went through the whole process. Unfortunately, we all of them, except for two, died during the thawing process. But we did transfer. Two of them did get a negative pregnancy test. And that was hard. I think, you know, you humanize these. These little babies, as we call them, they are human beings. And so it was. It was tough, but it was. It was a really amazing and enlightening process. These are embryos that were created through IVF by another couple. And they were done, I guess, you know, doing ivf. And so rather than letting them sit frozen forever or be discarded or be, I say, donated to science and killed in the process, embryo adoption, given these less than ideal circumstances, I think is the best option for them. So, yeah, that's what we did. We adopted those. Fast forward. We had actually adopted 10 more last year, I believe. And we actually just did a transfer in April that was unsuccessful. So we thawed three of them. One of them died, then the other two we transferred. And then that was a negative test. But currently I'm on estrogen patches. And in the process, and we have a tentative transfer date of July 31, we have seven remaining embryos that are frozen that we adopted. So, like I said, it's a weird process. I think it's something I love to talk about because it is kind of one of those things that it's not ideal. I didn't choose for these embryos to be created this way. I think there's huge problems with that. That's another conversation. But there is something that we can do. And I think as long as our heart is in the right place, this isn't necessarily because I want to be pregnant, of course I do, and that's amazing. But I think our main motivation for this is a rescue, and I think that fits really well with the them before us. Mentality of these are human beings that need to be rescued. Whereas in ivf, it's a mentality of, I want to have a family and I'm going to do it by any means necessary. So, you know, Nathan and I just feel really called to this. There's so many embryos waiting to be adopted, and this just seemed like a good fit for us.
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B
Thank you so much for sharing. We actually had. We have interns this summer, and we had an internal staff debate, more like an official debate, to practice the research and stuff. We just did this on embryo adoption. One side. One side was, it's never okay. And one side was, it's sometimes okay. And the sometimes, sometimes good side. One of their big arguments is that this is a concept of rescue. We're not. We didn't start the process like you've said multiple times, it's not ideal. It was not your choice that these are there, but they are there and they're humans. What are we going to do with it? And I think that's a really compelling argument on the it's sometimes good side. So it's really neat to talk to someone who's actually put it into practice. So I really appreciate it. Absolutely.
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A
Well, the debate keeps going on, and I think it's great that we ask questions. It. It is not, again, like, it's. It's not a very morally clear path necessarily. I, I did hear people talk about how, you know, that the best and the. The first and foremost is the. The biological parents should transfer them if they are already created. But sometimes that's not available. Maybe the parents are old, maybe they don't have, you know, they're not able to do it. And this is very different than, like, surrogacy, for example, because we are. We have adopted them. Unfortunately, it's not legally that way. Legally, it's. It's. It's property, which is, again, another conversation. But we will be parenting these children if they do grow and develop. So, yeah, it's a very interesting conversation and I love talking about it because it's. It's one of those ones that not everyone's clear on. So I think it makes for interesting conversation.
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B
Awesome. Well, Emily, just to round out the conversation, tell us where you guys are based. How can local people get involved if they're listening to this and they live in Fort Wayne, Indiana? Or how could people listening who maybe are far away get involved and support what you're doing?
- [28:20]
A
Yeah, well, the best thing about Let Them Live is we are a totally remote organization, so we do have our headquarters in Fort Wayne, Indiana, here, but we do help women all over the U.S. all of our state staff. We're all scattered. Same with our volunteers. So if you're looking to get involved, you can shoot us an email infoethemlive.org or just visit our website, let them live.org and donate and support. You can literally save lives from abortion with your dollars, you know, just sitting on the couch. So there's a lot of ways to get involved, but letthemlive.org is a great way to start. And then also our social media, share, comment, interact, follow us. You know, we're on all the different social media platforms. YouTube, Instagram X, Facebook, and yeah, get involved and see what we got there. We have a lot of testimonies from moms and cute baby pictures and just a lot of really powerful stories.
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B
That's awesome. All right, everyone, I hope you enjoyed this conversation. Emily, thanks so much for your time and the work that you're doing.
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A
Yeah, thank you so much.