Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: Them Before Us Podcast
Episode: Them Before Us Bonus | Is Katy Faust Anti-Adoption?
Date: January 15, 2026
Host: Jennifer Friesen, Training Director
Guest: Katy Faust, Founder of Them Before Us

This episode tackles criticisms and misunderstandings circulating online regarding Katy Faust's and Them Before Us's positions on adoption. In response to being labeled “anti-adoption,” Katy Faust discusses her personal and professional background in adoption, clarifies TBU’s stance, and draws critical distinctions between adoption and reproductive technologies such as IVF and surrogacy. The discussion explores the nuanced ethics of adoption, its inherent losses, and the organization's unwavering advocacy for children's rights to their biological parents while recognizing adoption’s necessary role in a less-than-ideal world.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Addressing the “Anti-Adoption” Accusations

• [00:06] Jennifer Friesen sets up the episode by sharing recent social media criticism labeling Katy as "anti-adoption," including accusations of "grifting" the pro-life movement and being overly critical of orphanages and adoption practices.
• Jennifer notes the frequent confusion between opposition to third-party reproduction (e.g., sperm/egg donation) and a supposed opposition to adoption.

2. Katy Faust’s Background in Adoption

• [02:17] Katy underscores her deep, hands-on involvement in adoption:

  • Adoptive mother herself
  • Former assistant director at the largest Chinese adoption agency
  • Extensive experience with orphanages and adoptive families, particularly with hard-to-place children (older, special needs, sibling groups)

• She emphasizes that seeing adoption up close has reinforced her belief that adoption, when correctly practiced, is a "just society's response to children who have lost their parents."

  Katy Faust [02:42]: “Adoption is a remedy for a broken situation. But what is broken, what's broken is the child has lost their biological mother and father.”

3. The Purpose and Principles of Adoption

• Katy explains that adoption is fundamentally a remedy, not an ideal—its existence underscores the presumption that children belong with their biological parents.

  • The difficulty of terminating parental rights is intentional and serves to honor the child’s right to their parents.
  • Adoption best practices center on the child's needs—exhaustive vetting, background checks, training, and oversight for adoptive parents.

  Katy Faust [03:36]: “The very fact that it is hard to disconnect a child from their biological parents and then reattach them to a biological stranger testifies to the presumption that biological parents and children belong together.”

4. Distinguishing Adoption from “Big Fertility”

• [04:50] Katy differentiates adoption from IVF, sperm/egg donation, and surrogacy:

  • Adoption: Adults do hard things on behalf of children who have already experienced loss (child-centric).
  • Third-party reproduction: Adults insist on having children, knowingly creating situations where children lose their rights to biological parents (adult-centric).

  Katy Faust [05:11]: “There is nothing about support for adoption that is incompatible with our strong, natural law claim that children have a right to their mom and dad.”

5. Adoption’s Inherent Loss and Response to Anti-Adoption Critics

• [06:52] Katy frankly addresses the pain and permanent loss associated with adoption, both for the adopted and the birth family.

  • Criticizes tendencies (especially in pro-life circles) to minimize this loss out of fear it will undermine anti-abortion advocacy.
  • Affirms that loss and pain co-exist with the hope and redemption that are possible through adoption.

  Katy Faust [07:27]: “Adoption begins with loss. Significant loss, often primal loss, sometimes loss that can never be fully mended on this side of heaven.”

  • Responds to critics who suggest "legal guardianship" as a better alternative, maintaining that adoption, when practiced correctly and for the right reasons, can provide healing and stability in tragic circumstances.
  • Stresses the difference between children's right to “a” mother and father versus “their” mother and father.

  Katy Faust [08:27]: “If any man and woman will do, then actually there’s nothing to mourn… Why do they always tend to go looking for their mother and father? It’s because there’s actually something special about the relationship we have with those two adults that’s different from everyone else.”

6. Upholding Child-Centric Consistency

• [09:27] Jennifer reflects on how TBU often irritates both sides of the adoption debate by remaining consistent: steadfastly prioritizing the child's right to their biological parents and seeking the least-worst solution when that is impossible.

  Jennifer Friesen [09:37]: “We are going to piss everyone off at some point, and really we believe we are being consistent to those underlying things. A child has a right to his or her mother and father that they came from. When that is not possible, then we can look at … what’s best for the children in these other things.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Katy Faust [02:42]: “Adoption is a remedy for a broken situation. But what is broken, what's broken is the child has lost their biological mother and father.”
• Katy Faust [03:36]: “The very fact that it is hard to disconnect a child from their biological parents and then reattach them to a biological stranger testifies to the presumption that biological parents and children belong together.”
• Katy Faust [05:11]: “There is nothing about support for adoption that is incompatible with our strong, natural law claim that children have a right to their mom and dad.”
• Katy Faust [07:27]: “Adoption begins with loss. Significant loss, often primal loss, sometimes loss that can never be fully mended on this side of heaven.”
• Katy Faust [08:27]: “If any man and woman will do, then actually there’s nothing to mourn… Why do they always tend to go looking for their mother and father? It’s because there’s actually something special about the relationship we have with those two adults that’s different from everyone else.”
• Jennifer Friesen [09:37]: “We are going to piss everyone off at some point, and really we believe we are being consistent to those underlying things. A child has a right to his or her mother and father that they came from.”

Important Timestamps

• [00:06] – Social media criticism and misunderstanding of TBU's stance on adoption.
• [02:17] – Katy Faust details her personal/professional adoption experience.
• [03:36] – The legal and ethical presumptions supporting children’s bonds to biological parents.
• [04:50] – Clear distinction between adoption and “Big Fertility” practices.
• [06:52] – The pain and loss inherent in adoption; respectful response to anti-adoption perspectives.
• [09:27] – Reflections on TBU’s consistent, child-centric approach—even when it’s unpopular.

Tone and Language

Throughout the episode, the tone is forthright and compassionate, centered on child-first ethics. Katy Faust brings an authority rooted in personal experience, policy expertise, and moral clarity, while Jennifer Friesen keeps the discussion accessible and focused on addressing public misunderstandings head-on.

This episode is essential for anyone seeking clarity on the ethical complexities of adoption, the difference between adoption and reproductive technologies, and Them Before Us's unwavering advocacy for children's rights. The team demonstrates a consistent, principled approach, not afraid to challenge both prevalent narratives and their critics in the pursuit of what is genuinely best for children.