Podcast Summary: Them Before Us Podcast #096 | Talking Toxic Mom Groups & Cash for Babies?

Date: January 13, 2026
Host: Jennifer Friesen (Training Director, Them Before Us)
Key Guests/Contributors: Katie Faust, Sam (“Pro Life Sam”)

Episode Overview

This episode splits into two primary themes:

1. The problem of declining birth rates and the international response, including the debate over financial incentives ("cash for babies") and their effectiveness.
2. Navigating toxic dynamics in “mom groups,” inspired by celebrity Ashley Tisdale’s recent reflections, and how Christian frameworks can foster healthier communities.
   The episode closes with a new segment, “Here For The Comments,” highlighting the meanest and most ridiculous hate comments the team receives online, mixing humor with insights on online advocacy and criticism.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Population Decline: A Global “Winter”

• Initial Framing:
  “We are in a population winter.” (A, 00:08)
  Both hosts highlight the demographic crisis: nearly all developed countries are below replacement fertility rates, facing potential long-term population shrinkage.

• Historical Perspective:
  Katie recalls learning in the 90s about “overpopulation” anxieties and policies (e.g., China’s one-child policy), which reality has radically undercut:

  “Turns out that was 101,000% wrong... we are in a massive population decline... some countries may go extinct in a couple hundred years.” (Katie, 01:04–02:47)

• Government Approaches:
  Governments (Japan, Scandinavia, etc.) have tried various pronatalist policies—direct financial incentives, tax credits, paid parental leave—but with limited fertility impact.

  “Money has not made a difference.” (Katie, 02:48)

  Jennifer discusses the Institute for Families study (May 2025):

  “When governments increase direct financial support for children, fertility rises by a demographically meaningful amount.” (Jennifer, 03:05)

  In the U.S., proposals focus on expanding tax credits and indexing support to inflation, but the hosts remain skeptical about real impact.

• Root Causes: The Marriage Factor Katie strongly argues the main factor is later marriage:

  “From the data I have seen, there is one thing... that directly increases the birth rate. One, and it is get married sooner.” (Katie, 04:32)

  She connects delayed marriage to fewer children per family (even for women who wanted more):

  “Maybe she can have one baby, maybe she can have two, unlikely she'll be able to have four.” (Katie, 04:32–05:47)

  The deeper issue, she contends, is social and cultural—discouraging early marriage, prioritizing career/education above family-building:

  “We won't do is tell people to change their sexual decisions, to tell people to change their relationship expectations... you should actually prioritize marriage and kids in your 20s.” (Katie, 05:47)

2. Cultural Narratives, Government, and Motherhood

• Retro Myths & Policy Realities: Jennifer and Katie critique modern narratives that paint the 1950s family as purely oppressive for women, and trace how economic and policy shifts deeply affected family formation.

  “The government had everything to do with wanting another 50% of the populace in the workforce.... They benefit from more bodies in the workplace and full control over your children.” (Jennifer, 06:50–09:24)

  They argue for reframing motherhood and marriage as culturally vital, suggesting that governments were more than passively uninvolved—they actively shaped norms for economic reasons.

• Countries That Buck the Trend:
  Katie notes Israel and Mongolia are unique for maintaining replacement fertility levels:

  “They tell a very elevated story about the importance of motherhood. Mothers are exalted and revered... there’s a whole narrative around the importance of this role that only a woman can play.” (Katie, 09:24)

  The hosts see this as cultural “storytelling”—attaching value, prestige, and community narrative to motherhood (and, by extension, fatherhood).

3. Toxic Mom Groups: From Celebrity Culture to Everyday Experience

(Segment Begins at 11:56)

• Ashley Tisdale's Case:
  Jennifer recaps Ashley Tisdale (now Ashley French), a celebrity who experienced exclusion and "toxic" dynamics within a celebrity mom group—mirroring high school cliques.

• Gendered Social Dynamics:
  Katie observes that women tend to express conflict less directly, often via gossip or exclusion:

  “We tend to go around back... a little more underhanded comments… gossip does tend to be a little bit more of a female specific sin.” (Katie, 13:04)

  She links macro trends (cancel culture) with micro behaviors in mom groups—ostracism instead of direct conversation.

• Christian Community Contrast:
  Katie says, in Christian groups, relational ethics—directness, inclusion, caring for the “weaker” member—significantly reduce toxicity:

  “I exist not so that I can get what I want out of this relationship... a lot of the reason I exist is to make sure that she gets invited to happy hour.” (Katie, 13:04–15:40)

  She argues for biblical conflict resolution—private confrontation, not public shaming:

  “In Christian circles, it doesn't matter… we’re supposed to be different, do different.” (Katie, 16:50)

• The Cost of Exclusion:
  Katie highlights the real pain of social isolation:

  “It's detrimental to who we are as humans… it's an opportunity for all of us to reject the way the world operates when it comes to connecting.” (Katie, 15:40–16:50)

4. "Here for the Comments": Hate, Humor, and Advocacy

(Segment Begins at 17:47)

• Premise:
  Jennifer and Sam (“Pro Life Sam”) introduce a new segment where they read (and sometimes rate) hate comments received on Their Before Us content, using humor as a tool to deflect vitriol and teach effective responses.

• Most Notable Hate Comments:

  • “I hope you choke on your Christmas dinner.” (Day 1, 21:22)
  • “Religious freaks.” (Day 2, 22:54)
  • “F off and die.” (Day 3, 24:34)
  • “Your kind is literally holding us back as a nation.” (Day 4, 26:01)
  • Direct death threats, e.g., "end Katie Faust" or "I hope you get hit by a car, a train, a rock or a stray bullet..." (Around 28:30)
  • "Drink bleach."
  • “How do we end Christianity? Simple: criminalize it with a strong negative deterrent such as the death penalty.” (Day 9, 29:50)
  • Criticism for using a rainbow in an image ("deep inner evil within you. Disgusting." Day 10, 31:15)

• Commentary on Hate:
  Jennifer and Sam both mock and dissect the logic of the comments, pointing out inconsistencies, the progressive use of “progress” as a buzzword, and the irony when critics accuse them of backwardness.

  • “Christianity has built society, and progressivism is actually reverting us back to…child slavery, child sexual abuse.” (Jennifer, 27:11-28:22)
  • On direct threats: “Christianity thrives under pressure and heat because nobody's doing it for fake, you know?” (Jennifer, 30:06)

• Final Reflections:
  Sam:

  “I wish them all well, I pray for them, and I hope that their lives get a little bit better so they don't have to spend their time commenting really awful things on strangers' Facebook pages.” (Sam, 32:50)

Notable Quotes & Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• “Turns out that was 101,000% wrong... we are in a massive population decline...” (Katie, 01:27)
• “There is one thing that directly increases the birth rate... and it is: get married sooner.” (Katie, 04:32)
• “The government had everything to do with wanting another 50% of the populace in the workforce.” (Jennifer, 06:50)
• “They [Israel and Mongolia] tell a very elevated story about the importance of motherhood... there's a whole narrative around the importance of this role that only a woman can play.” (Katie, 09:24)
• “I exist not so that I can get what I want out of this relationship... a lot of the reason I exist is to make sure that she gets invited to happy hour.” (Katie, 15:04)
• “It's detrimental to who we are as humans... social isolation is incredibly painful.” (Katie, 15:55)
• “We’re gonna do more ‘Here For The Comments’ in the future, teach you how to reply to the haters…” (Jennifer, 33:02)

Suggested Listening Timestamps

• [00:08] – Introduction of population “winter” and pronatal incentives
• [04:32] – Marriage rate as the main driver of fertility decline
• [09:24] – Israel and Mongolia's unique cultural approach to motherhood
• [11:56] – Ashley Tisdale’s toxic mom group and broader mom-group dynamics
• [13:04] – Gendered conflict and Christian approaches to healthy social groups
• [17:47] – Beginning of "Here For The Comments" segment
• [21:22] – The Twelve Haters of Christmas and standout hate comments

Tone & Style

Warm, direct, sometimes wry or irreverent—especially during the hate-comment segment, where humor and camaraderie soften the sometimes toxic digital atmosphere. The discussion is both pragmatic (citing studies and policy specifics) and values-driven, reflecting the hosts’ Christian ethos but aiming for broad, evidence-based children’s rights advocacy.

Conclusion

This episode advances the Them Before Us mission by:

• Challenging common beliefs about population and pronatal policy,
• Urging a revamp of marriage/family narratives over financial incentives alone,
• Offering practical wisdom on navigating toxic social environments, and
• Equipping listeners to face online hostility with resilience and wit.

Listeners leave with a deeper understanding of population dynamics, the social dynamics shaping family life, and how to stand strong for children’s rights (and personal dignity) in both public and private spheres.