Them Before Us Podcast #097 Summary
Episode Title: #GreaterThan Launches and a NY Photographer Wins against Bullying
Date: January 30, 2026
Host: Jennifer Friesen & the Them Before Us team
Featured Guest: Emily Carpenter, New York wedding photographer
Episode Overview
This episode features two primary themes: the launch of the Greater Than Campaign—a national coalition seeking to overturn the Supreme Court’s Obergefell decision on same-sex marriage with a child-centric approach—and an in-depth interview with Emily Carpenter, a New York wedding photographer who prevailed against state efforts to compel her to celebrate messages conflicting with her Christian beliefs.
Throughout, the hosts and guest emphasize the importance of boldness in advocating for children’s rights and religious liberty, the strategic rationale behind the campaign, and offer inspiration for those facing legal or cultural opposition due to their convictions.
Key Discussion Points and Insights
1. Greater Than Campaign: Launch & Rationale
(00:08–26:45)
Why Launch Now?
- The campaign officially launched on January 28, 2026—timed not with elections, but out of necessity and conviction.
- Pushback came both from critics outside and even from conservative allies, chiefly focused on "timing" concerns.
- Jennifer Friesen:
“The question is, when is a good time to stand up and do what's right? When is a good time to stand up for the rights of children? … If it's time to stand up and do something that you believe is right, you have to do it.” [04:48]
Historical Parallels & Movement Building
- Compared to the post-Roe pro-life movement; recognizes that, like that effort, it may take time, but foundational work must begin.
- Katie:
“It's not about timing. It's that I can't sit still any longer. I can't sit and not say anything any longer.” [05:37]
Strengths Learned from Past Failures
- A decade of reflection allowed development of new messaging, strategies, and coalition-building.
- Previous religious-liberty or narrowly faith-based arguments did not persuade the public; the new campaign centers singularly on child victimization and rights.
- Katie:
“What does not work… is building a case based on Bible verses… What does work is saying, hey, children have been victimized and we didn't have to. In 2015, many of us speculated about the harms to children. We now have 10 years of receipts....” [09:26]
Messaging and Media Strategy
- New conservative media infrastructure (Daily Wire, The Blaze, social media, etc.) enables movement messaging freedom previously unavailable.
- Influencer coalition pulls in key voices to push a singular message: gay marriage equals child victimization; natural marriage equals child protection.
Coalition Structure
- Built around three working groups: judicial/legislative, cultural/media, and religious/church.
- Judicial: Developing legal avenues for reintroducing biological distinctions (mother/father) into law—a direct undermining of Obergefell.
- Cultural: Equip influencers with child-centric narratives to shift public opinion.
- Religious: Unify and mobilize the church with both theology and social science, to become a child-protective force.
Singular Messaging Commitment
- All coalition members agreed to avoid derogatory, religious-freedom, or anti-gay language—focus is exclusively on children’s rights.
- Katie:
“We are not going to use the word sodomite or degenerate… We are never going to give anybody an excuse to believe that gays are the victims. Also, … they deserve to be spoken of and thought of with dignity. But we are never going to … relinquish our critical drive to defend children.” [16:13]
2. Emily Carpenter: Standing for Free Speech and Religious Liberty
(28:02–59:07)
Introduction & Background
- Emily Carpenter is a wedding photographer, Christian, and mother of three boys who faced a First Amendment fight when New York State attempted to compel her to provide wedding services for messages that violated her beliefs.
- Supported by Alliance Defending Freedom, she experienced both significant personal cost and ultimate legal victory.
Origin of the Case
- Started full-time photography in 2019 after leaving corporate work.
- Faced internal struggle after being asked by a close (gay) friend to shoot his wedding—declined, leading to reflection and need for legal clarity.
- Explored New York’s stringent “public accommodation” laws, which could have resulted in severe fines or even jail time.
- Made clear the difference between refusing service to people (which she does not do) and refusing to create specific messages.
Litigation Experience: Highs and Lows
-
Lawsuit filed in 2021, concurrent with becoming a new mother.
-
Hostility from the public—including a deluge of online hate, even while holding her one-day-old newborn.
-
Emily:
“I am holding my baby in the hospital bed, hormonal, emotional, obviously in discomfort. And I'm having hundreds of DMs, unspeakable things being said about me ... all while holding my one-day-old baby.” [38:41]
-
There were also long stretches with little happening, but the persistent emotional toll and reputational impact was heavy.
-
Support from family and church community was crucial for her perseverance.
Silver Linings and Broader Impacts
- The struggle led to real conversations with family, friends, and clients—many of whom she may never have connected with otherwise.
- Emily:
“There’s so much beauty in just being honest with people. And honestly, that's a way of sharing the gospel. … Now post litigation, I just feel like ... I have paved this way of hopefully inspiring other young entrepreneurs or other young professionals to also live out their faith.” [36:36]
Legal Process & Victory
- Case experienced setbacks, including an initial legal loss and periods of uncertainty.
- Experienced reputational retaliation: blacklisted from referral groups, negative online reviews, etc.
- Ultimately, a preliminary injunction was granted, followed by settlement, enabling her to express her beliefs openly in her business.
- Emily (on the outcome):
“It was a wonderful moment for me. It was a wonderful moment for my husband… the peace it created in our home with three young boys... the burden that it lifted off of my husband's shoulders was ... incredible.” [53:41]
Wisdom for Others
- Prioritize honesty over concealment—refusing to hide her beliefs gave her integrity and strength, despite the discomfort.
- Litigation, while extremely challenging, can yield significant freedom for others as legal precedents are established.
- Emily:
"It comes at the cost of your reputation. ... You are kind of exposed, but you no longer have this anxiety … you have a freedom to just unapologetically point to Christ and be honest.” [35:38]
Final Message
- The case sets a precedent protecting other faith-based creatives in New York.
- She encourages others to live truthfully, stating that true love does not demand hiding beliefs for social comfort.
Notable Quotes & Timestamps
-
Jennifer (on timing pushback):
“When is a good time to stand up and do what's right? … When do Democrats want us to do it? … Never.” [03:28-03:29] -
Katie (on lessons learned):
"What does not work when it comes to advocating for the marriage of one man and one woman ... is building a case based on Bible verses. … What does work is saying, hey, children have been victimized and we didn't have to.” [09:23-09:38] -
Katie (on coalition rules):
"We are not going to use the word sodomite or degenerate or suggest that all people who experience same sex attraction … are abusers, because that results in people feeling like it's the gays that are being victimized by us. … Everything that comes out of Greater Than HQ is going to singularly focus on child protection.” [16:15-17:00] -
Emily (on costs of standing up):
“I am holding my baby in the hospital bed… And I'm having hundreds of DMs, unspeakable things being said about me ... all while holding my one-day-old baby.” [38:35-39:00] -
Emily (on honesty & faith):
“There’s so much beauty in just being honest with people. … Now, post litigation, I just feel like … I have paved this way of hopefully inspiring other young entrepreneurs or other young professionals to also live out their faith.” [35:38-36:36] -
Emily (on victory):
"… peace that it created in our home with three young boys. He's trying to protect our family. … The burden that it lifted off of my husband's shoulders was, yeah, it was incredible.” [53:41-54:19]
Timestamps for Key Sections
- 00:08–07:01 – Launch of Greater Than, initial pushback, philosophy of timing.
- 07:02–12:53 – Why now, campaign origin, lessons from past strategies.
- 12:53–18:17 – Messaging, parallels with pro-life movement, coalition building.
- 18:17–24:36 – Working groups: legal, cultural, religious strategies.
- 24:36–26:45 – Church’s role; response to “let the state stay out of marriage.”
- 28:02–32:36 – Emily Carpenter introduction, background, start of legal troubles.
- 32:36–40:32 – Legal landscape, lawsuit initiation, emotional/life toll.
- 40:32–44:49 – Public blowback, importance of sacrifice, context of doing what’s right.
- 44:49–52:43 – Litigation details, turning points, cresting to victory.
- 53:41–58:52 – Personal relief, impacts on business/family, post-victory confidence.
- 58:52–59:07 – Concluding remarks and ways to support or contact Emily.
Tone and Language
- The hosts and guest maintain a tone of sober resolve, encouragement, and principled advocacy.
- The language is conversational, occasionally personal or humorous, but always focused on clarity, strength, and hope in standing for one’s convictions for the sake of others—especially children.
- Even in recounting difficult moments, the speakers emphasize ultimate hope, the importance of integrity, and community.
Conclusion
This episode serves as a rallying call for principled, child-centered advocacy in debates about marriage and family law, and offers a tangible example of courage in the face of adversity via Emily Carpenter’s legal victory. Listeners are encouraged to stand firm in their convictions, join the Greater Than campaign for child rights, and take heart from personal stories of resilience and hope.
Relevant links: