Are Cycling's Mega Transfers Worth It? | Trades & Transfer | THEMOVE

Summary

THEMOVE Podcast Summary
Episode: Are Cycling’s Mega Transfers Worth It? | Trades & Transfer | THEMOVE
Date: December 15, 2025
Host: Spence Martin (with Johan Bruyneel & George Hincapie)
Main Theme:
A comprehensive, behind-the-scenes discussion of professional cycling’s blockbuster transfers for 2025-26. The panel assesses the rationale, cost, and potential impact of headline rider moves—particularly those with multimillion-euro buyouts—plus the strategic trade-offs teams face as budgets soar and competition intensifies.

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Episode Overview

The panel dives deep into three of the cycling “offseason’s” most expensive and consequential transfers:

• Remco Evenepoel to Red Bull-Bora Hansgrohe
• Juan Ayuso to Lidl-Trek
• Biniam Girmay to NSN Cycling (formerly Israel Premier Tech)

Beyond the headline moves, the hosts analyze broader trends: how mega deals are redefining team structures, why some squads are shunning the “Galáctico” approach, and how set-piece signings and creative recruiting strategies are reshaping the peloton.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Remco Evenepoel to Red Bull-Bora Hansgrohe

[04:19] - [12:46]

• Structural Shift & Rationale

  • George: “If you can’t get Pogacar, you’ve got to go after Remco. They’ve got the biggest budget after UAE. If you got the money and you can afford to go after a guy like that, it’ll be a good thing.” (05:13)
  • Johan: “At Soudal, he was maxed out in terms of resources… A perfectionist like Remco, he now goes to an environment where, as he says, ‘all he needs to do is pedal his bike and everything else is organized for him.’” (06:15)

• Money, Expectation & Outcome

  • Spence: “I just can’t get my head around… a €7-8 million buyout plus €5 million a year salary. If you were spending that much, what would success be?” (09:27)
  • Johan: “He needs to win a big one-day race, an iconic one-week stage race, and podium in a Grand Tour. World TT champ, that’s almost a given.” (10:31)

• Team Tactics & Potential Tension

  • Spence: “They just had a guy finish third at the Tour de France—now you have Remco. Neither of them’s going to win, so do the best you can and see what happens." (08:49)
  • Johan: “It’s not necessarily a bad thing to have Lipowitz—if you can’t win the Tour, cycling is not just about the Tour.” (12:46)
  • George: “Remco’s 25, still lots of room to improve. Maybe they’re banking on breaking through.” (11:41)

2. Juan Ayuso to Lidl-Trek

[17:33] - [22:53]

• Transfer Details & Significance

  • Spence: “Another theme here: a big buyout, he had a contract running. Cost them €10 million!” (19:08)
  • Johan: “It showed the commitment of Lidl to cycling… hard to imagine Ayuso not improving over the next two or three years.” (21:05)

• Opportunity, Pressures & Expectations

  • George: “He was fourth, fifth in line at UAE. With Lidl-Trek, he’s the lead GC rider. That’s going to do wonders for his confidence.” (21:21)
  • Johan: “Ayuso’s super interesting. You don’t get third at the Vuelta at 19 without pure class. There’s nobody else available.” (19:54, 24:50)
  • Spence: “What else could you do with €10 million? Maybe investment in youth, but those guys are just not there.” (24:50)

• Notable Quote:

  • Johan: “He had a great time at UAE… apologized for things he said in September. Then they asked about Lidl-Trek and he said, ‘Oh, it’s so much better.’” (23:02)

3. Biniam Girmay to NSN (formerly Israel Premier Tech)

[30:28] - [36:54]

• Deal Context & Career Restart

  • Spence: “He gets paid €2 million+, goes to NSN, has to switch teams anyway with the merger. At NSN, he’s the star.” (31:21)
  • Johan: “We don’t know his level for 2026, but remember, 2024 was a standout—green jersey, three Tour stages, still only 25 years old.” (32:08, 32:35)

• Streakiness & Team Stability

  • Spence: “He’s a bit of a streaky shooter. You compress the results but there were long periods without podiums.” (33:51)
  • Johan: “A lot of the inconsistency—maybe team worries, waiting for his Tour bonus which apparently never paid. Now, he won’t have to worry about all that.” (34:37)
  • George: “The moment you’re thinking ‘this team owes me money,’ do I really need to risk my life today? That can make it impossible to win.” (35:21)

4. Alternative Team Strategies: Ineos, Visma, Alpecin, Decathlon

[36:54] - [56:36]

• Ineos Avoids Big Buyouts

  • Spence: “Ineos were in talks for Ayuso and Remco, but instead signed Kevin Vauquelin (good TT, good climber) and may get Oscar Onley. Not spending tens of millions, but savvy moves.” (38:17, 43:27)
  • Johan: “If the UCI’s not approving your license for 3 years, you need a cash infusion. Selling Onley works out for everyone.” (40:03)
  • George: “Just those two moves—Vauquelin and Onley—would be really good for Ineos.” (43:27)

• Visma’s Pragmatic Shedding & Development Focus

  • Spence: “Visma mostly shedding expensive riders, not signing big money stars, but bringing in key talents like Louis Barré, developing young British star Matthew Brennan.” (45:38, 50:01)
  • Johan: “If you look at Visma, second at the Tour but won the Giro and the Vuelta… as long as Wout is back, they’re set.” (50:56)
  • George: “All your stars are 30 or older—got to start estate planning!" (51:51)

• Decathlon’s Young Talent Recruitment

  • Johan: “Signing Olaf Kooij is one of the transfers of the year, three million per year. Takes pressure off Paul Seighos. Decathlon spending a lot, and smartly.” (46:17)

• Alpecin’s Salary Strategy

  • Johan: “Alpecin had to let riders go—other teams offered triple salary to older mid-tier riders. That’s just smart payroll management.” (53:48, 55:19)
  • Spence: “You’re either a superstar, a winner, or you work for them. No expensive aging domestiques.” (55:43)

5. Other Major Moves & Speculation

• Derek Gee’s Next Team

  • Johan: “I can say it—he’s going to Lidl-Trek, you’ll see.” (58:07)
  • Spence: "Interesting… speaks to Lidl-Trek wanting to be present in all the big races." (59:04)

• Soudal Quick-Step Doubling Down on Classics

  • Spence: “They lose Remco but bring in Dylan van Baarle, Jasper Stuyven, Filippo Zana. Love that move.” (62:32)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Mega Transfers:

  • Johan: “It’s a big gamble, in my opinion—but I am convinced Remco had to try something new and I think Red Bull is probably the best option for him.” (08:03)

• On New Mega Sponsorships:

  • George: “We’re witnessing the whole game change right now... If you’re an American getting fourth place in the Tour, you have to pay up for that.” (44:30)

• On Managing Team Hierarchies:

  • Johan: “It’s not a bad thing to have two leaders. Look at Visma with Roglic and Jonas. Good thing they did, Jonas became their star.” (12:46)

• On Streaky Riders:

  • George: “The moment you’re thinking this team owes me money, do I really need to risk my life here at this one?” (35:21)

• On Salary Inflation:

  • Spence: “These numbers are crazy… we haven’t seen €10 million buyouts ever before.” (21:21)

• Comic Relief:

  • Johan: “If you ever see me put a number on my back, you’re entitled to pull me off that bike!” (65:28)

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Selected Timestamps for Important Segments

• Remco to Red Bull-Bora Deep Dive: [04:19] – [17:16]
• Ayuso to Lidl-Trek: [17:33] – [24:50]
• Girmay to NSN: [30:28] – [36:54]
• Ineos’ Alternative Strategy: [36:54] – [44:09]
• Visma’s and Decathlon’s Approach: [45:38] – [51:51]
• Alpecin Payroll Logic: [53:48] – [56:36]
• Derek Gee Rumor & Finale: [58:07] – [62:32]

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Tone & Style

Lively, irreverent, and sharply analytical. The trio repeatedly return to the tension between spending big for established stars versus gambling on youth and structure. The conversational style mixes deep insider knowledge (Johan’s team management anecdotes, George’s rider perspectives) with frequent banter and a candid, sometimes skeptical view on the sport’s spiraling finances.

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Summary Takeaway:
2025/26’s mega transfers—Remco to Red Bull-Bora, Ayuso to Lidl-Trek, Girmay to NSN—reflect cycling’s changing economic landscape and the new playbook for success. As big teams splash out unprecedented sums on talent, others seek leverage in youth development and canny secondary signings. The consensus: mega deals are risky but, sometimes, necessary to stay at the sport’s sharp end. The season ahead promises a shake-up—with more volatility, ambition, and a sport in flux on multiple fronts.

Transcript

[A]

Little track is the new team for derek g he's gonna go to he is going to little track i can i know you guys here on the move you guys need to be careful because you know you're directly or under indirectly involved still with cycling i can say it he's going to little track you will see.

[B]

Everybody welcome back to the move i am spence martin i'm here with johan berniele and george h cappy for our annual trades and transfers episode we'll be going through the biggest transfers of the offseason which is still happening so some of it will be somewhat speculative but we have remco evanopol to red bull bore hansgro we have binion grida innocent cycling and wanna use it a little trek is our probably our three biggest transfers but we're gonna break them down and then some of how this structurally will work and how a few things could actually happen but first let's hear from a few of our partners for today and then we'll.

[C]

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[B]

Johan i'm i'm i was just with you yesterday now i'm i'm in georgia's favorite stomping grounds of brussels belgium was just down in what i called the grand palace you told me is the grand plus of brussels beautiful with the christmas markets out there but we've been digging deep into these the the funny thing about being on the costa blanca is you can hear you can read about all these transfer things and then you can actually see with your own eyes who is with with what team so i've been dining at some of these hotels just this morning for breakfast trying to see if i could get my eyes on a few of these riders but first of all let's i think the biggest transfer of the season remco evenepoel leaves sudaw quickstep goes to red bull borough hansgro i'm george i'm going to go to you first because i know what johan's going to say about this but what do you think.

[D]

About this move well i mean arguably if you can't get poker charge you got to go after remco and they're the biggest next to uae the biggest budget in the peloton they got to make big moves they may be perhaps you know starting to lose hope that primos is going to win the tour de france or primos is going to win keep winning winning as much as he has been winning and that's i guess the next logical step you got the money right to the second biggest name in the sport rider who's you know with the exception of poguchar being being there dominated some of the biggest races in the world world championships world championship time trials olympic games third place of the tour de france won the welta so i think if you got the money you got you can and you can afford to go after a guy like that it'll be a good thing and they have obviously lipowicz whose podium in the tour de france last year they still have primos they got a incredible roster behind them it's going to it's making big news already so i see it as a positive move.

[A]

For that team yeah i think also for remco himself to me it looked like at soudal he was maxed out in terms of resources and for him and knowing he's a perfectionist and wants everything to do in the tiniest little detail he goes to an environment now where i had the impression that at tsodal he had to come up with the ideas he had to propose and then the team tried to fulfill his wishes and this is now a completely other situation they think for him they do for him he actually said in an interview in the belgian media that he already feels like all he needs to do is pedal his bike and everything else is organized for him you know just a tiny little example if on certain teams you could say soudal probably movistar a few times we had the example of matteo jurgensen a little bit similar not the same level rider but similar situation going from movistar to visma you know these guys take the initiative they go on a training camp they have to ask for a mechanic ask for a massage therapist ask for two teammates and then the team says okay yeah okay we agree they can go with you here it's different that's the whole team that goes they go to the table or to serra nevada you know it's the whole team all the you know all the riders are going to ride with that leader a full team of staff you know vehicles it just feels different in my opinion i think for specifically for a personality and a character like remco that's worth a lot of like not having to worry about if everything going to be taken care of personally i feel like the transfer amount i've heard behind the scenes but i think the numbers are right that red bull paid seven million to sudal as a buyout and he only had one year left on the contract okay if he signs a three year deal you can spread it over three years but still it's it's big it's a big gamble in my opinion but i am convinced that remco had to try something new and i think red bull is probably the best option for him i mean for remco i.

[B]

Think it's a great option especially i was embedded with the uae team emirates camp the last few days and you can see firsthand like how much like the resources these big big teams have and i do think that would help you a lot versus just being by yourself riding around obviously you're getting good training but there is something to be said for having the infrastructure around you and johan we might have to just listen to you because we are going back to last year's show it's this same show and he said simon yates would be the most important transfer of the off season and then he won the giro d' italia on his new team so pretty good call there but so i i like this move i actually like it for kind of an oddball reason like red bull bore hands grow probably for money spent and then results gained in one day races was probably the worst team in twenty twenty five really struggled in one day races i don't believe they had a i don't believe they had a top five in a single podium unless i'm missing someone but you know remco is like he's automatic at least some sort of result in these hilly one day races so right there they have something gc at the tour i think it kind of gets a little awkward does it not you just had a guy finish third at the tour de france and then now you have remco go i think we said on friday neither of them's going to win so don't worry about that just do as do the best you can but the money involved i just can't get i just can't get my head around this that it was what a seven or eight million euro buyout plus the annual salary which must be around five million euros a year that's a huge investment i mean if you were spending that much money what would define success for you as a team manager if you spent that much money on a rider i mean.

[A]

First of all i think he needs to win a big one day race perfectly possible he needs to win one or more than one of those seven iconic one week stage races type tirreno bais vasco dauphine tour of switzerland something like that and he's the podium in a grand tour and i mean world champion world championships time trial that's i'm going to say that's that's an almost guarantee you know how much does that.

[B]

Mean for the team does it i.

[A]

Think it it means i mean they have they already want to have a world they won two grand tours right they won two grand tours they won the vuelta with roglich and they won.

[B]

The giro it chindi yeah.

[A]

So you know they haven't won the tour and as long as pugach and vingard are going for it they're probably not going to win it so then you know you look at what's what's the best possible next thing to win and i think remco can win most of those.

[B]

Races what grand tour let's not forget.

[D]

Remco is still young so i think maybe in their mind he's not reached his limits yet where maybe perhaps you know jonas is getting closer to his limits you can never say this about poker charges it keeps just doing whatever but maybe they're justifying the fact that you know he's what is he on.

[A]

Twenty five now he's twenty five by the way a little side note he just got voted for the fifth time he's twenty five for the fifth time sportsman of the year in belgium sportsman of the year not cyclist of the.

[B]

Year sportsman for the fifth time for.

[A]

The fifth time at twenty five years old that's wow wow yeah wow yeah.

[D]

So yeah yeah yeah i would say they're banking on him improving obviously he's best time trialist in the world and you know this year he had some some health issues at the tour de france gonna come back super motivated to do at least equal his performance of twenty twenty four and like johan said with the backing that he has now it's you know all he has to do is pedal his bike and i think that that does a lot for a rider's mentality and i think it's.

[A]

Also not necessarily a bad thing to have you know lipowitz there as you know we said you know they're not the favorites to win the tour so you know you can't really bank everything your whole team on a guy who has once been podium because a lot of things can go wrong like like lipowitz i mean he's still obviously lipovitz is going to improve but even if lipovitz improves i don't think he's anywhere close to the of pogacha and jonas so i don't necessarily dislike the fact that they have two leaders for the tour plus it gives also opportunities for for example primos for the vuelta and pizari and probably jai hindley for the giro you know it's cycling is not just a tour de france especially if.

[B]

You can't win it yeah no i i do agree with you there that if the situation they're in two is better than one and think about visma when they had ruglic then they had then they have jonas suddenly and now they have two and good thing they had him because now he's their star writer so it's i think it's good i think and you know it's crazy george i don't think you were there for this so we just named those writers on red bull there's another writer we're not named that finished on the podium of a grand tour in the last two years on that team can.

[A]

You name this right take a guess.

[D]

Yeah that you that we did not name you named primos right yeah we.

[A]

Said we named primos we named jay hindley.

[B]

Julio pelizari remco evanopole yeah there's another guy whom of a grand tour.

[D]

No i'm going blank and not and.

[A]

It'S not long it's not long ago and he is i mean you have two nationalities right he's your other national oh martinez is that crazy danny martinez.

[D]

Yeah yeah so then we have to ask ourselves this too what if they completely change the the game around so to speak and to go for the world cups or the early season classics and then send all these guys to the tour i mean it'd be interesting on paper to see how that how that works out look nothing else is working up to now nothing else is working yeah they send them all there.

[A]

They already announced they already announced their roster right i mean they already announced that it's the tour is only it's lipowitz and remco and primos is the vuelta and perizari and hindley is the.

[B]

Giro right yeah but george i was actually thinking about this on my drive this morning it's intoxicating thought but then how would they position anyone for climbs right you'd need at some point riders that can help them move around because if you have four gc leaders could be a little hard to do that.

[D]

Four gc leaders and four classics guys.

[B]

One classics guy for each spencer you.

[A]

Know i i don't i mean i don't think that way i mean even i mean it's not going to happen but let's say if they have these four guys right for the for the tour it's i mean they still don't have to carry the weight of the race it's uae and and maybe sometimes visma but and it's just okay these four hat guys have just try to hang on as long as they can and i think that much positioning in the in the mountain stages you know.

[B]

Yeah you guys are really good bike handlers i just worry you look back and remco's one hundred riders deep going into a key the only time we've.

[D]

Seen poker chart crack in the last five years is when they had three.

[B]

Guys against one it's not no there's definitely something to that yeah yeah and.

[A]

They don't win and then and then even then george i think you know they had three gazing three guys against one and and and polacha made a.

[D]

Lot of mistakes yeah for sure yeah.

[A]

But but speaking of remco speaking of remco spencer in one of our former shows you know we talked about you know there were these rumors and hints that maybe he would do milan san remo and tour of flanders and i said it was a bad idea so i don't know maybe they listened to the show they did finally say that remco was not going to do the tour of flanders so i i i.

[B]

Like that suspiciously close to what you said would be a good idea but no i but you say picacho made mistakes but he made mistakes because there was so much coming at him right there's so many riders it's like he can't keep track of them all he's chasing guys he shouldn't chase and i don't know george maybe it is a.

[D]

Good idea not only chasing but like making huge huge efforts on you know what is arguably one of the hardest climbs in the alps that was the most exciting tour we've seen in a long time so that's why i mentioned the possibility of that and if they're listening who knows maybe they change it.

[A]

Up absolutely.

[B]

Zach dempster making changes right now editing that google doc i'm going to skip i'm going to skip bium let's go to juan because it just keeps us in the gc theme and and there's another theme here so juana uso goes from uae to little trick ju so personally provided us with the most entertainment that we got out of the vuelta espana recently so thank you juan for that and it culminated in we were watching this race thinking there's no way he can go back to this team he doesn't he goes to legal track in the middle of the race fantastic writer finished on the podium of a grand tour as a teenager i believe johan nineteen years old ba has won multiple stages of grand tours has he can win one day like these portuguese early season one day races he's just riding off the front very.

[A]

Has he has he won has he won stages in grand tours wait this.

[B]

Is like all we talked about this summer remember where he won like he just took off in his own oh.

[A]

Yeah okay yeah yeah yeah sorry yeah.

[B]

But other like an absurd amount of stages two two he won three no he won two three oh wait wait but one was oh the team time trial team time trials okay okay okay yeah yeah i don't know that actually if you're trying to i'm trying to come up with a formula to rank gc writers and the team time trials do mess you up but he's won two stages that toreno won the overall toreno i believe he won a flat time trial at toreno against felipe ghana that's crazy by the way but really good writer goes to little track shows are serious he is only twenty three years old i believe also also with.

[A]

A contract still running contract so the second big second big transfer with a contract which is still up with another team so another buyout and cost them.

[B]

Ten million euros for the buyout that is not even not including this annual salary another huge investment you'd say let's just say like pot let's just do this quick positives he's a massive engine massive talent you think who can beat pagachar who can beat vinegar who can beat remco almost nobody he's he's talented enough he could do it negatives all right let's get negatives has not proven that he can do it consistently johan you can go first do you do you like this move to little trick.

[A]

Yeah i mean listen for him i think it's great it's it's a team and also i go back to what george said initially you know if you can't have those two top dogs then who else can you have and and you know ayuso is super interesting because he's so young we all know he's a big talent you know you don't get third in the welter at nineteen and then you know he's pure class right so they didn't have a rider for gc or big leader for gc i think it's a great combination i'm just a bit worried about the amount of money involved i mean ten million buyout i mean it's a lot better than the ridiculous one hundred million buyout which was in his contract got a huge deal on this is real this is real i mean it was one hundred million euro buyout clause which i said was illegal and i don't think you could enforce that but still ten million is in my opinion it shows the commitment of little to cycling and how they look long term so yeah i think it's a great combination.

[C]

Little.

[A]

Track needed a rider like that if all these other riders are not available who's next it's jonajuso and you actually invest in potential for the future so it's hard to imagine juana you so not improving in the next two or.

[D]

Three years yeah i've got to go with johan i mean twenty three years old coming from a team where he was even though a super rock star proteom and nineteen years old but also arguably fourth fifth in line in terms of gc riders in that particular team he was on so i think mentally coming to lidl track although he's already saying that matt peterson is the leader he's coming to this team with you know being for sure the the lead gc rider of course they have scale modes and they have ciccone but historically i would say he's probably got the most potential it's going to be do wonders for his confidence being on a team like that with not only guys like skelmos who can climb with the best in the world ciccone can climb with the best in the world but if they all kind of align the res they can really help him succeed at his goals i think coming into a race like the giro where you're sort of like in the media fighting for your role of leadership very tough for a rider like that also with a rider a similar age to him in del toro i think just mentally that kind of knocked him off his game for the rest of the year so i can i could see this being a good move although and these numbers that we're spitting out these days is crazy what what's going on in the cycling world i mean ten million for a buyout we haven't really seen that ever so yeah it's going to be interesting move but legal check continues to to to grow their program top three top three four teams in the world and they're definitely putting their money where the mouth is yeah and and.

[A]

I just wanted to you know continue on that so they did was the press day two three two or three.

[C]

Days ago.

[A]

And did you guys see that statement that juana you saw read about uae didn't read it no i didn't see this so he read a statement at the press day first before his interview he read a statement and saying that he had a great time at uae that he was so thankful and grateful for giving him opportunity for growing him and that he apologized for things he said in september i mean it was a written statement he read which was i don't know it was part of the deal because he apologized and it looked like a very like obligated exercise and plus an apology yeah exactly exactly and then and then and then after after that statement they asked him about so what do you think about little trekkie the environment here how do you feel i said oh it's so much better that's what he said.

[B]

Wow okay i do think that's a lot of money i am now looking at his results for the year he did win a grand a grand tour stage before the vuelta the giro to tell you that we forgot about that he was the leader at for a while or he was supposed to be the team leader at but that world championships race now that i'm remembering that pretty impressive right one of three riders to go one of two riders to go away with pagachar cracks but you know everybody cracked finishes six that's pretty good or no finishes eighth finish sixth at european championships the question i think that you have to ask is so ten million euro buyout plus this annual salary what else could you do for that money and would it be more productive than wanna use so i mean it's maybe not an obvious yes but.

[A]

I think the only thing the only you can the only thing you can do and it was obviously be a lot less money but it's just you know spend a lot of money on on research and invest in in younger talent you know that's that's the only thing you can do there's nobody else available and and nobody else i mean he is in the top five six riders of the world so and they.

[D]

Have their sprinting game covered you know with with milan and mads peterson so obviously they want to focus on gc as well so they're covering all the angles they got the money they might as well get you know top five gc rider in the world but i.

[B]

Guess if you have a big team owner now right little bot like fifty percent of the team johan is that.

[A]

Right yeah majority majority owner so if.

[B]

They say it's like red bull they came in about fifty one of that team they say we want to win the tour de france how do we win the tour france i mean what are you going to say to them and say well okay there's there's picacho you're not going to get him there's jonas you're not going to get him there's remco there's juana uso i don't know who else you would even say there is a team that didn't do this that got creative and we'll talk about them in the second half but let's do a quick ad break and then we'll talk about binyamin bermai and then we'll talk about other ways teams could have done this without spending this.

[C]

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[B]

Move okay so we're back the so the not not a gc transfer binium gai goes from inter marche wante which kind of merged with lotto and is now lotto inter marche kind of was an acquisition or lotto coming in and taking the sponsor and then taking the pickup team and staff members we've seen.

[A]

It with our own eyes here spencer several times like you know the lotto and the lotto guys and intermarshe riders it's not the same like you see all these teams riding around and for example today i saw decathlon and then all of a sudden there's one yellow guy tish benot for example with his still with his visma but this is really you could see the mix right it's it's it's half and half or you know two thirds and one third so yeah that's that's but anyway binyam girmai didn't make that that move and.

[B]

He he doesn't make the move he goes to innocent cycling team which used to be israel premier tech will be called innocent cycling for twenty twenty six doesn't make the move because a he gets paid two two million euros perhaps more per season going over there that has to be substantially more than he was making and he was going to have to switch teams anyway you know the team merges you go to a new team it's not like he could stay at intermarsha was going to cease to exist as he knew it he had to go and if he stayed he'd have to be competing with arno deli who we've we've seen out there on the roads that guy's looking motivated i wouldn't want to compete with that guy for sprint opportunities he's two years younger very good writer now he goes to nsn he's the star writer on the team i personally like it what do you think about this johan yeah.

[A]

I think i i think it's great for him and it's great for the team also as we said in in our last podcast spencer we don't know the level of gilmai for twenty twenty six twenty twenty five was not great twenty twenty four is not that far away and he won you know the green jersey and three stages in the tour still young also only only twenty five years old also i think younger.

[B]

Than remco i believe yeah he's that.

[A]

He'S he's that generation because i do remember that they they raced together in the juniors and binyam was as i said last time the the only rider in juniors who beat remco in a one in a one in a face to face race but no i think i listen i think it's great it's also i think it fits into the transition of that team going from israel premier tech to nsn it's a completely brand new identity and the fact that girmai is now the new face fits into that narrative i think yeah i.

[D]

Like jamu as well i mean you know obviously they're paying them quite handsomely but like you guys mentioned twenty twenty four was a standout year for them who knows what was going on behind the scenes in twenty twenty five obviously with the team having emerged which indicates that perhaps they were not doing well budget wise which you know you start start seeing teams cut corners that affects the riders in many ways so for a rider like bingham gourmet going to nsn with full support behind him a good salary i think it'll help help a lot with his confidence his motivation and i could see him getting back to his level of twenty twenty four.

[B]

He he is in basketball you call it a streaky shooter someone who will miss a lot and then they make a lot in a row he kind of has that tendency even when you go back to his best years where he'll be remember he won ghentwelgum and in your mind you compress all these results but actually had a long fallow period between that and winning the green jersey at the tour he's a bit up and down in his season you look back last year it's not quite as bad as you remember seventh at gentlegum second opening stage of the tour you know a couple things go differently third in the points classification that's it's not the worst season of all time i i do kind of i do kind of worry johan we talked about this on friday that's a lot of money does the inconsistency catch up to.

[A]

Him on the other as i said last time spencer i think what we i mean what we don't know but i can i can imagine you know a lot of the inconsistency and the you know maybe less good season of gilmai had to do with worries about his team you know i mean it's he knows there's no budget he knows that he was still waiting for his bonus from the tour de france which apparently never have been paid yeah you know i mean you don't you can't have that as a rider and on top of that it's a rider who has the responsibility to carry the whole weight of the team that's not good and and i think from that point of view in this new team now he won't have to worry about all that so i think he can bounce.

[D]

Back yeah the moment the moment you're thinking this team owes me money do i really need to risk my life here at this one and if you just hesitate for a second in our sport it's almost impossible to win so if that was in fact going on in his head i could see why it might have affected his results yeah.

[B]

And i think it's important i think this is huge for nsn i like that i like it a lot i like it for girmai he switches teams he's gonna have to switch teams anyway he goes to a new team where he's the center of the universe for nsn it's big because you just changed the conversation like no one's talking about israel premier tech the protests anymore like you have benimar maya the guy's super charismatic i was at the last stage of the tour two years ago and i would easily say he had more fans there than any other wr just a huge star off the bike a big star very charismatic very likable that's big for them they can they can finally maybe start to turn the corner it's may you know maybe he's not producing on the road but but there's a lot of sprinters that make close to that that don't necessarily produce a lot of results so that that could just be what it costs for a sprinter of that level.

[D]

I agree great move i think for both ingram and the team it's going to make a lot of news a lot of headlines and like you said a whole new motivation to get some results and i can see him make i can see this being quite successful for both parties.

[B]

And so i mentioned a gc team or a team that wanted to make gc moves that didn't spend the big money for the buyouts be ineos ineos was in talks to get both juan uso and rim clevnable they did not they signed kevin vuklon from arcaea bnb kevin vaklan loved that team so much he stayed with it until it folded he can now goes to any it was very good writer has won a stage at the tour de france has finished top ten at the tour de france good time trial is good climber those that type of talent and someone who's not on a team that is paying a lot of money for him to be a great time trialist is very rare they also signed sam wellsford who is a sprinter i i only mentioned this because he was signed with the team a few months ago or reportedly so then was not now is you ask yourself why why what was the delay what happened there and then johan the the big talk of the week is down on the costa blanca is where is oscar onley because he's not at his picnic post and l team camp he had some quotes that one was like fifteen teams are courting me and i forget the other one it was like i'm worth a lot more this is not the quote but it was something along the lines i'm worth a lot more money now than i was before the tour doesn't sound like someone going back to his team yeah is oscar only going to ineos.

[A]

Well i mean he's not if he's not at the team camp that's already not i mean that's an indication there's.

[D]

Something going on.

[A]

I mean i think i think spencer like we said last last week you know since he's on picnic and spakenbrink has this habit of selling riders still have a contract this is a great opportunity as we said financial insecurity for twenty seven and twenty eight the license they only got it for twenty six and then they have to represent guarantees for the years after i think he's gonna you know choose choose the money and ineos needs a brit rider star rider i think it's a great match and plus they have the money so it's not going to be ten million or seven million like these other guys not near that but he does have i think he does have a twenty six twenty seven still it's not just twenty six he still has twenty seven contract also with with picnic so yeah he's not with picnic i've seen many picnic groups here i've not seen oscar only anywhere no you know so is he already at the ineos camp i don't know well spencer.

[D]

Weren'T you just there i don't know.

[B]

You'Re breaking up george can't hear you i don't know don't know what he looks like didn't see him i think it's actually worked out i i think this probably just happenstance but he was down under perhaps in australia and new.

[A]

Zealand and then he back holiday yeah.

[B]

That was holiday and then who who knows what it could i mean i don't even know what bike he's on like he's probably on his his picnic bike and he's gonna have to switch bikes soon but i would guess that a deal has been done springen brick needs a deal because if if the uci is not approving your license for three years that's not a great sign yeah you need a cash infusion at that point this is a great way to do it he's twenty three years old finished fourth at the tour de.

[A]

France is british and and in my opinion still has a lot a big margin for improvement i think yeah well.

[B]

I like these riders like fucklon like onley that are on these really low budget teams and they're holding their own i mean these are uphill time trials so it's a little bit different but oscar onley finished third at the time final time trial of switzerland third overall and then he finishes fourth overall to tudor france finished seventh on one of the time trials and the amount of work like colonago is putting into these bikes for uae it's unbelievable so the.

[C]

Fact that he can compete with that.

[B]

Is really impressive on that team five years younger the guy that they were rumored to be targeting was derek g but but onley's twenty three derek g is twenty eight i believe finished fourth you know who else finished fourth at the tour de france the year before they joined team sky or team ineos.

[D]

Say it bradley wiggins that's right with.

[A]

Garmin with garmin yeah yeah yeah i.

[B]

Just just popped in my head maybe.

[A]

This is but yeah you can't compare that spencer that's you know that's that's that's a completely different you spent bradley wiggins had never focused on grand tours before that he was focused on you know the track and he was a pursuit multiple world champion olympic champion and then you know i think with that fourth place in two thousand was two thousand nine right he said oh yeah well you know this is i can i can do something here and then went to ignos and you know they created that whole program around that tour de france win it took them twenty ten eleven twelve three years three years.

[B]

Yeah there's actually another writer at that race ryder hedged all who finished another cross discipline guy he finishes no maybe that was the next year twenty ten he finished his fifth in twenty ten and then wins a grand tour two years later at the jira italia i believe in twenty twelve so it's not it's not a bad strategy to look at who are good writers finishing top five at the tudor france we should sign that writer probably a pretty good.

[D]

Move there's no doubt he bro he broke barriers this year i surpass his is probably his own beliefs in terms of himself and as a grand tour rider and going to ineos i mean they're going to focus a lot more on aerodynamics and having the best of the best equipment we can definitely see him getting to be a much better time traveler you know under their tutelage and then of course kevin bacalan makes a ton of sense because they have direct energy as a co sponsor now so they're they're gonna have to go they're going to go after the best one of the best french riders as well and just those two moves would be really good for any else in my opinion.

[B]

I mean i'm sure it cost them a lot of money at least on lee but vaklan that was an aspiring deal i don't think yeah to buy them out so they got i think they got we're assuming they get oscar onley let's just assume that's happened that's two really good gc riders and they did not spend ten million dollars or ten million euros in buying it out i i assume that's not what oscar only costs but no no no no i i think i like this i like these moves a lot i think these are really really savvy i mean what i was about to say johan well he's the best british writer so it makes sense he would go there but but maybe he's not maybe matthew brennan would be considered the best british writer what about what about.

[A]

Simon yates who just won the giro.

[B]

Oh man a lot of good british writers i don't know no but i.

[A]

Guess i got you know matthew brennan is just i mean different type of writer but it's super i mean and he's on this guy is insanely talented so good very good yeah.

[B]

George what's if you were let's say an american finish not on your team finishes fourth of the tour he's on a smaller team how much would you pay for that for that countryman oh i mean.

[D]

We'Re just seeing the game we're witnessing the game the whole game changed right now i mean now if you're an american young american getting fourth place in the tour they're gonna you have to pay up for that is that i would say you're paying bingham gourmet two million as an emirate you'd have to be well north of that number i.

[A]

Would say it depends on depends on the interest of the sponsor also correct yeah i think for in that in that case here now like it only is in a great position because he's a british rider there's a possibility to leave and you have a british the biggest one of the biggest teams which is a uk team with the budget but yeah i think only it's going to be a dna it's a matter of days i think and do you.

[B]

Know who we've not mentioned in any of this what major team no visma in fact visma has mostly been shedding expensive riders like you think of dylan van barle and they're older they're good writers obviously just getting older that's how time works but they are becoming less productive with time i mean maybe jonas and the wild are plateauing but they're not winning more they lose olav koi to decathlon who is making a lot of moves also they signed matthew ricatello decathlon spending a lot of money presumably in the transfer market but yeah is.

[A]

In my opinion spencer sorry to interrupt it's it's one of the one of the big transfers of the year also great sprinter young i think it's a great move for the catalan because you know they have this young talent in paul say shots but you know you can't put all the pressure on that guy and koi knew that when he was stayed at visma he was not going to do the tour de france now he has a guarantee to do the tour de france and he's actually the leader of the team for the tour de france so again a huge contract i mean three million per year for olaf koi see that makes the.

[B]

Gr my contract seem better yeah yeah for sure they're almost the same age.

[A]

Yeah but koi is definitely one of the top sprinters won a lot of.

[B]

Races yeah i think we called him maybe the best we were obviously wrong but i think at some point of the season we said he's maybe the best sprinter in the sport obviously it's yasper phillipson but really good really good is it jasper phillipson i mean well george maybe you need to weigh in here if we define sprinter by win sprint stages at grand tours okay jasper phillipson is not even close it gets a little bit more it's for some reason tim earlier is far i think.

[A]

I think the fastest the super fastest pure sprinter in my opinion is tim and lear what do you think george.

[D]

Yeah i would say he's probably the the fastest the most powerful would be jonathan milan he's just you know not very arrow at all but he's just full big guy full power you know probably bullies away around the front we have different obviously different spinners that are very successful matt peterson i mean the guy can win a classic and then win a field sprint as well i mean i feel like the sprinters these days is just so much more dynamic phillips is already talking about maybe perhaps not focusing as much on the sprinting as races like paris roubaix which we've seen him get second place a couple.

[B]

Times now or twice two times yeah.

[D]

One rainbow one same remo i mean the the game has changed as far as sprinters go and it's tough to pick out you know who's the best but all of corey for sure he won a ton of races it's a great move for decathlon really focusing on their new bike as well the van russell which they want to display as one of the fastest bikes in the peloton so just makes a lot a lot of sense in terms of a marketability moved to get a guy like olaf coy.

[B]

Yeah and i did it really make sense for visma to keep him probably not no he's not going to go to the tour so you're not paying him now someone else is paying him decathlon you mentioned koi yeah let's say he wins a tour stage what's that worth to decathlon probably a lot it's probably worth the contract right there it's more it's worth more to.

[A]

Decathlon than it's worth to visma yeah.

[B]

It is yeah it's interesting yeah and then they signed matthew riccatello gc writer well you're like well that's kind of weird because they have paul seychelles but it's it's like what you said with koi it takes pressure off of paul seychelles so all of these signings are like getting stronger and taking pressure off to me that's the big risk of of having a i i this whole thing makes me uncomfortable like you're riding on the road in france and you just like his name is written everywhere and he's eighteen years old it's like this is not going to end well.

[D]

I like this i like it in the sense that you know these it's different these teams are able to long term plan too i mean they're putting a lot of money a lot of emphasis a lot of planning around around like guy like paul says who's eighteen years old getting ricatello super young they're like okay well it might not happen next year but they're clearly obviously planning for the future which i'd like to.

[B]

See yeah if it happens in five years they're happy because they have these guys in between but visma shedding a lot they bring in i actually really like the signing louis barre they pick him off from the inner intermorer shade debacle closing very good writer this is this is what they do they sign these guys christophe laporte victor campinarts i mean victor campenaerts i think we thought that would be an interesting signing for them i don't think we saw it being as important as it was he's one of the most important domestics very important yeah yeah so i trust them but they are not bringing in big money stars.

[D]

Oh they gotta they gotta cover jonas's payroll and van art's payroll yeah simon yates simon yates those are all you know several million dollars worth of payroll so i mean the thing.

[A]

Is also if you look at visma okay you know they got second in the tour but they won the giro and the vuelta you know you don't have to improve that much you know as a team and you you you're you're all over the place and now i mean let's let's hope that walt is back i mean let's not forget he won that last stage in the two in the tour you know the only rider in in in a number of years who was able to drop bogachar i think that that victory for walt if he can build on that confidence and get back to the level that we expect him to be at the for for the classics that's you know i think i think this must find man in terms of of leaders.

[B]

Everywhere i agree yeah i mean he potentially won two of the most iconic grand tour stages of the year yeah.

[A]

The gravel stage yeah in the giro.

[B]

Idea against the mini picacho's mini me at del toro i do worry if all your stars are over the age of thirty thirty or older you are entering you got to start planning the estate planning must begin because they're not going to be around forever at least.

[A]

Matthew brennan that's not team brennan he.

[B]

Might he might be contesting the overall tudor france at the rate this guy's.

[A]

No but you mean spencer at the classics like i mean races like gan bevelgam and and and and e three and war game and matthew brennan man he's gonna be there you know remember.

[B]

He was like second wheel for the first one hundred k yeah i don't think i've ever seen a first timer do that at that age yeah so.

[D]

And they were probably you know he was probably had more of a helper's role there than art i think they would probably give them a free card next year both of them i mean i'm sure johan would probably do something similar and we didn't even mention jurgensen i mean he's not getting any any worse by any means still won parry knees last year and always up there with top five climbers in the world so yeah they're focused on their top five six guys and i think i think they're like johan said doing really well in that in that with that strategy.

[B]

And they got louis bar right now so they got louis body i like the signing yeah i think you've mentioned i mean we're you someone someone mentioned old writers here but alpison i thought this was really interesting i think i think this was for legitimate financial reasons they were unsure about what because they knew deconic was stepping back from the title sponsorship slot so they started just shedding salary aggressively like in the middle of the summer they ended up bringing on premier tech as the co title sponsor so maybe they're a better financial position than they thought but but they got rid of pretty much every highly paid writer over the age of thirty that was not a superstar i.

[A]

Think what happened spencer is you know if you look at for example johnny vermeer's quinton herman there are teams that paid probably double or triple the contract so as a team like alpecin and you have you're still uncertain about your second most important sponsor you just can't match that you know you can't even i think johnny ramirez has almost signed for almost three times the amount he was making at alpecin so as a writer in your thirties you just have to take that deal and as a team you have to say hey you know what take it please make it sign straight away because that this is this is your lifetime deal so it's they are i mean if you look at these guys i guess it's it's good and herman's johnny vermeers there's another guy there's another guy that goes to q thirty six point five i think.

[B]

So it's zandro.

[A]

Yeah good right really good i mean solid rider same thing you know i mean you can't you can't enter into that bidding war with these teams who go after your riders who are solid base but you know you can't especially if you have van der poel and phillips and kaden groves who are highly paid riders right so and win a lot of races.

[D]

The.

[A]

Middle part is irreplaceable and alperson is actually the rotov brothers are extremely good at bringing guys that are solid but maybe not big names and you say oh hey where does this guy come from but he's so good yeah that's the team man i like their way of working they get the maximum out of a writer for sure i think.

[B]

Daniel benson had a piece where he was like it was salary bands for each type of writer and he deduced that alpecin was the team with the least mid class salary middle middle class writers so you're either a superstar you're matthew vanderpoel or you're a winner like a race winner like vanderpol kaden groves jasper phillipson or you work you work for them and help them win they just avoid probably because they're very smart like you say they they avoid paying top dollar to riders that are going to get sounds cruel like get old on their payroll and stop producing when they could just go sign they're also the key to this johan is being based in belgium and they just pick the best cyclocross riders that are belgian and they're like hey you want to go ride some classics from matthew vanderpol they're like yeah that sounds pretty good and that's what they do so they have an advantage but that is how they survive it's how they keep this.

[A]

We forgot the name tibor del rosso on that team that's an amazing talent incredible talent potentially one of also also on the road not just in cyclocross.

[B]

Yeah like a new winner remember this stage at that i was just trying to look this up as as.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Where he was he's on the front.

[A]

For he went away the downhill that's that's that is actually the most that's the most impressive performance i have seen of a rider who's not like bogachar or yeah matthew brennan won that stage by the way so del grosso was up front and brennan was on the front for at least two kilometers with kaden groves on the wheel basically kaden.

[D]

Groves just won the field sprint in san remo like three days before that.

[A]

And he just let him out to catch del grosso and beat both of them that was the most impressive win of the season in my opinion performance wise to say wow how the hell.

[D]

Did this happen i rode with stephen kreiswick in in nice when i was there in september and i think he was in the race with him and i guess he told him he's like yeah i was just looking at my watch and i knew i could hold that number for it was like a thousand it was like a eight hundred meter sprint that he was looking at his watts knowing that he could hold that number and one of the best sprinters in the world couldn't go around.

[B]

Him yeah pretty wild and i don't think we've mentioned it yet where is derek g going that's that's the big transfer we don't know yet that he.

[A]

Was he is i mean there's been there's been rumors you know he's been he's been you know rumor first let's say he was i mean looked like he was going to ineos right i was under the impression that he had a deal or was it a verbal deal or a promise to go to ineos and that's why he made the decision to leave israel premier tech it turns out i don't know if there was some kind of agreement or it didn't go through or if there was nothing but now all of a sudden turn around and seems like little track is the new team for derek g he's gonna go to he is going to little track i can i know you guys you guys need to be careful because you know you're either directly or under indirectly involved still with cycling i can say it he's going to little track you will see.

[B]

Flip it it clip it gabriel that would be interesting i did yeah i mean that.

[D]

Would be a really interesting move with are you so you know with scalmos with chiconi like that would be i.

[A]

Think it i think it speaks for what little track wants to accomplish they want to be present in all the big races derek g is probably gonna go for the giro it was fourth already i think it's i mean i think it makes sense for for little track to to cover all their bases and and be performing and not gonna probably not gonna win a grand tour unless i use so is in super form but i uso goes to the tour so i use is not going to win the tour de france yet.

[D]

At least but i mean look these guys these big teams now a successful grand tour like what little track can do like what bora can do red bull bore is win stages and get on the podium yeah right now nobody's beating poker charts exactly exactly they come out with you know happy with a result like that well you don't want.

[B]

To you don't want to totally close the door on winning the grand tour who would have thought simon yates they didn't sign simon yates thinking that's a grand tour win right there well he.

[A]

Already won a grand tour before spencer.

[B]

He did but you would not make that signing in twenty twenty five i.

[A]

Personally don't think that that visma thought that simon yates would win the giro and i would say i would even go further i think simon yates didn't think he was going to win the giro before the before the before the season and even before the gym he.

[B]

Might not have in the beginning of the last week thought he was going to win but you know you don't know like i used to it's zero in the vuelta like anything can happen who knows what happens but where does.

[A]

This leave matthias schelmose well another surprise you know we've seen i mean and this is also the press right you know i don't know if you read this when they announced the programs of the writers so it was ayuso for the tour and then apparently matthias kermosa said something that okay well oh this ayusu also do the ardennes that's news to me because i was promised sole leadership or something but what do we see today he just renewed until twenty twenty eight with little track so it's not such a bad place to be.

[B]

I think i think i mean they also these guys don't mess around they decide they want a writer and they have a writer you don't hear any rumors there's no waffling i also having spent some day some time at these media days recently some of these stories i i would take everything with a grain of salt just people we we.

[A]

Were saying before before the show you know that derek g could be an issue because you know he had a contract with as well premier tech you know was he was threatened to be sued by adams now we've heard that adam said okay you know any team who wants to sign derek g is facing a lawsuit you know okay you don't want to mess with a billionaire unless you're little they are multi multi multi billionaires yeah you know so and.

[B]

They are tough business these guys owner.

[A]

Of the team so if that's a lawsuit i know who's that gonna who who's gonna win that one it's a.

[B]

Really good point johan because it would scare off an individual like even wealthy individuals but lidl's a massive corporation they have a legal department they have firms on retainer like they're not scared by that lawsuit and i don't think we mentioned it but just to say it really quick so doll quick step lost rim quevna pole but now is doubling down on the classics they bring in dylan von barle jasper phil jasper stojven not yes for phillipson filippo zana who i i am the one man felipe ozana fan club i love this acquisition and then wow poles and victor lefe go to unibet rose rockets which is pretty interesting but now they'll be back at the tour de france so kind of an interesting le fay i mean think of le fay that that was george we were just watching that tour.

[D]

Two years ago yeah and actually he was that's a really interesting story because he pretty much said he was done with cycling.

[A]

What was he going to do he was going to sell cheese.

[D]

And yeah.

[B]

That'S not a bad idea.

[D]

I i kind of that's it's an exciting project that's for sure a good move for them to get both those guys and dylan gronoveger so i think they're you know they've made some really big moves this year for next year.

[B]

What do you guys have anything else any transfers i'm missing no you're getting.

[D]

Me excited for the season it's going to be a good stuff we're doing.

[B]

Our daily tour down under podcast just just in a few weeks george you can be on it but i i.

[A]

Did want to anyways we have to say also spencer what have you working four years together now and we just met physically yeah two days ago for the first time in four years yeah.

[D]

That'S the first time you guys have.

[A]

Met in person we had never met.

[D]

In person yeah that's funny i did.

[A]

Not know yeah and so we got to ride together we had nice lunch nice huge paella right spencer i showed spencer the quantities of the spanish food was pretty good no it was a.

[B]

Lunch and i think we exited at five thirty pm this spanish lunch but yeah it was good riding i was out there on the colonago let me test their ultra aero bike and johan during the tour was saying i think it's not that bad and i i couldn't be convinced but actually it was lighter than i thought it would be so maybe i was wrong about that.

[A]

I still like my ventum i still.

[B]

Like my ventum spencer the ventum was johan was was smoking these downhills and then you gotta say what was your ten minute power the other day on.

[D]

This whoa it's kidding you always gave me a hard time for riding too.

[B]

Much it was a ten minute power was good good good pretty good but potential potential trade there is no comeback.

[D]

There'S no no comeback.

[A]

There'S one thing i said there's one thing i said to a friend of mine i said i mean probably ten or fifteen years ago i said you know if you ever see me put a number on my back or on my bike you are you you are entitled to pull me off that bike i never put.

[B]

A number anymore uh here's a funny so i was the the mechanic was showing me pagatro's bike and it had these tires on it and they're like you know you only ride this if you're going really fast like no puncture protection it's just for the like the fastest races on the best roads who.

[A]

Has those tires i have those tires that's funny i had five flats in five days don't buy those tires we.

[B]

Won'T call them out but they were.

[A]

They were fast yeah they were yeah they they they they're you know it's not for it's not for recreational use it's just for it's like formula one tires it is to change them all.

[B]

The time mid ride you might have to change them but thanks guys for joining and we'll talk soon okay thanks.

[A]

Guys thanks guys thanks bye yeah sa.