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- [00:00]
Johan Berniel
When I found out I was going
- [00:01]
Spencer Martin
to be a parent, I immediately felt a lot of anxiety and worry. So I went on to BetterHelp to try to look for a therapist to help me with that.
- [00:09]
Johan Berniel
My relationship with my family and with my boyfriend and with myself were suffering.
- [00:14]
Spencer Martin
I really needed help.
- [00:15]
Johan Berniel
I was ruminating a lot.
- [00:17]
Spencer Martin
Really getting those thoughts out to a therapist and getting feedback was just life changing. Discover what BetterHelp online therapy can do
- [00:26]
Johan Berniel
for you and visit betterhelp.com today
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- [01:01]
Johan Berniel
required Nairo Quintana won on Blockhouse and ended up winning the GC and 2022 Jay Hindley won the stage on Block House and ended up winning the Giro. So I guess the guy who wins tomorrow, if it's one of the favorites, is winning the Giro and I'm going to predict that's going to be Jonas Wingard
- [01:26]
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everybody.
- [01:26]
Spencer Martin
Welcome back to the Move. I'm Spencer Martin, I'm here with Johan Berniel. We are breaking down stage six of Giro D'. Italia, a 141km sprint stage into Naples I believe the fifth consecutive year perhaps Johan that we've we've done at some version of the stage just maybe was the the most boring of that. But there was still action at the end all it was won by Davide Ballerini from X XD S Astana. Not the winner we thought not how we thought it would play out. I he he he. I mean talk about just being there, being ready, grabbing the opportunity when it comes. It's Asana's second win of this year to tell you. Pretty impressive. The stage started pretty calmly. There was a the Alpin du an Alpin duo got away just like that Tour de France stage with Matthew Vanderpoel last year it was Luca Ver and Ed Edward Plankart get away. Kind of strange though because there's no none of these Smaller teams are there. It seemed like they missed an opportunity. They realize that they bridge up. There's a two Bariani riders, a P visit Malta rider go up. And then. I couldn't quite figure this out. There was just. There was no sprint teams pulling. It was GC teams at the front all lined out across the road. But the gap never got that big. It was never more than a minute. It seemed like it was between 35 seconds and 15 seconds for a lot of the stage. I couldn't quite tell how fast they were going. It didn't seem like they were going so fast. Probably everybody was quite exhausted from yesterday's five hour stage for the cold and the rain. Eventually the sprint teams come to the front. They're positioning as we get closer to Naples. The GC teams Visma fell back really early. Like 50k to go. Visma is at the back. Even with some strong wind, apparently they're not worried about crosswinds. Other GC teams were a little more skittish to do. So eventually they all go back. They're riding a few seconds off the back of the peloton by the time they get into Naples. Assuming that if they lose time, they all lose time together, probably the right thing to do. Unibet came to the front with Dylan Groen. Unibet Rockets come to the front. They looked fantastic. They're going into the final corner. It was 180 degree turn on wet cobblestones. Cause it had been raining on and off all day. And they look like they have the perfect line. And then you see the lead out, rider go down and then a multi. You know, once someone goes down, everybody goes down. Ballerini was on the inside line. Slightly more traction on those cobbles. If you look closely, he gets through, he sprints away, holds off Jasper Stuyven for the win. Paul Monier who had to dismount and he did not crash, but he had to dismount and stop. Gets back on and goes. Unbelievable. He was flying up that climb. Finishes third. Super impressive. Will have points classification implications. Looked pretty disappointed. I think he would have won that stage running away with it had nothing happened. But Johan there not much to talk about other than this finish. What were your takeaways from the stage?
- [04:25]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, well, Spencer first of all, I mean takeaway is of course the. The way it ended, right. And the crash. I think. I think what I was really impressed with is the. The lead out of Unibet Rose Rockets. That was really impressive. They had five, then four. I mean they had it completely under control, perfect. Until that, until that corner. You could also argue, you know, that they went too fast in the corner because they, it was wet, you know, it was, was it, it was starting to rain lightly and you know, the, the, the cobbles were wet. So it was, you know, whatever happened, you could clearly see that it was like an ice skating crack because the two first guys went down and then 10, 15 riders behind, they went down already. Just watching, watching them crash, break. They were going down. But my big takeaway of today is the incredible performance of Paul Manier. I don't know if we can put up the picture here. Credit to Velon for sending us these stats and that information. But if you look at the speed of Paul Magnier in the last 300 meters compared to the other guys, so Ballerini, I mean, it was, it was slightly uphill, right? The last 300 meters on the course. So Ballerini did 38, Stuiven did 39.1 because he came from behind Paul Magnier. That's kilometers per hour average speed. Paul Magnier did 43, 42.3 kilometers per hour. So he went 4 kilometers per hour faster than the stage one. The guy who won. Yeah, you know, he was, he was, I think he was like 60 meters behind. He, he had, he was, he didn't go down, but he had to dismount, had to get his foot back in start from, from zero and still get stirred and gets really close. You know, he did, let's see, he did four seconds faster in the last 300 meters than the first two riders. It's clear to me that, you know, under normal circumstances, Paul Magnier would have won this stage. It would not have been photo finish. It would have been, you know, no, nobody would have been on the picture with this kind of speed. So that was impressive. Other than that, Spencer, you know what, what else is there to say? You know, it was predictably a bunch print and not just not just looking at the stage today. I think personally, and I would like to know your, your take on this. You know, when the course is designed, you see the stages and months before this stage, the JIRA organization and whoever it is who makes this course and checks the course and approves the course. Ultimately there's always, apparently there's a protocol or there should be a protocol that there's somebody who has to approve this course. Whether that's, you know, it's somebody responsible within the UCI, like a commissary or responsible for the safety of the courses. In my opinion, this was not Justified even. I mean, you can't predict rain, right? But you kind of know that Napoli is. There's always chaos, there's always something going on and, you know, 180 degree turn on cobbles with 300 meters to go. I think in today's cycling especially take into account how the sport has changed, how the speeds have increased dramatically compared to whatever, 10 years ago they go 5, 6 kilometers per hour faster. Now it's kind of asking for trouble. You know, it's going to be a bunch sprint. There's a hairpin, basically 180 degree turn on cobbles with 300 meters to go. And I think, you know, was telling to see Jonathan Milan, who is a sprinter, who is Italian, who loves the Giro, who openly questioned the choice of this course. And he said, I don't get it. I don't understand why we have to do these kind of finishes. You know, there's a lot of things that come into play. Of course, you know, the stage is attributed to Napoli. So I'm just going to take a wild guess. Napoli probably has something to say on where the finish should be, but they don't get to dictate how they get there. There's other ways to get to this finish other than, you know, a 180 degree on cobblestone before the finish. So I'm. What, what do you think, Spencer? Could this be avoided? Is it justified that the riders just have to accept this? Of course, it's easy to say now because it was wet, right? It was wet. And if it's a bunch print and on what something's going to happen. It was, you could say, well, the first two guys took too much risks. Listen, if they get through, there would have been a crash in fourth, fifth or sixth position. It was, it was, it was like soap on the road. What's your thoughts?
- [09:39]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, I agreed with Jonathan a lot. I was watching, thinking, why are we doing this with the chicanes? I looked at the course yesterday, you know, it's actually pretty good little route through the city. They were going fast. It's fast, so that is dangerous, even if it's straight. I thought they just could have finished it right there on the road on the approach, the turns. I just thought it was unnecessary. Like a lot of turns inside the final kilometer, 180 degrees on cobbles. Even if it wasn't wet. Did you notice there was big chunks of cobbles missing? So. Well, they would have been going faster. I didn't even think they were going that fast. I thought they were going Pretty gingerly through the corner. I did think, I, I wonder if they were worried. It looked like some guys were maybe moving up on the inside. I was like, ooh, Grunder Vegan's gonna lose position here. He's gotta be careful. But if it was dry, I just think they would have probably still had problems because there was. It just doesn't feel like it's befitting of a major world class sporting event. You're like, why are you going?
- [10:36]
Johan Berniel
I just, Spencer, I don't think that a stage which is 95% sure gonna be a bunch print in Napoli, knowing how the roads infrastructure is in that part of Italy and especially Napoli should not be finishing on cobblestones. That's the first thing that you can avoid.
- [10:56]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [10:56]
Johan Berniel
And then, and that on top of that, don't put that big turn 300 meters before the finish. Yeah. I mean another thing, Spencer, I mean I didn't, I wasn't able to get that information or I missed it. But was there from the UCI or the Giro, the Tour of Italy direction, any decision made in the final of the race that would say, okay guys, there's chance of rain. They knew 20 minutes before the finish that it was going to start to rain. So you know, you can kind of say, okay, hopefully it doesn't, but maybe it does. So out of precaution, I would think that there should have been a decision made that, okay guys, there's going to be a stage, there's going to be a stage winner. But the times don't count for the GC because this is, and this takes already out of the equation a lot of nerfs from teams who have nothing to do there. They probably still would have crashed because the sprinters go full gas. They want to win the stage, they don't care about the time. But it would have calmed down the peloton, I think, unless I missed and maybe there was that call from the, from the race direction, say, okay, the times are neutralized, don't worry about it. Do you have any information about that?
- [12:13]
Spencer Martin
There was like rumors all day that it was going to happen and then it didn't happen and they were speculating on. I thought that would have made a lot of sense. And you do see it. You know, sometimes they're like, oh, it's too. We're going through middle of a big city, like a huge city. Let's neutralize the GC time. It's been done in multiple grand tours.
- [12:29]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [12:30]
Spencer Martin
There was speculation on the broadcast that they didn't want to do it because they didn't want Naples to fight them. You know, I, I probably would be worried about that. Like, are we then violating the contract? It must be a huge contract they have with the city, like a multi year deal to do this and they didn't want to nullify the State. Like if they nullified the GC standings or the GC implications, are they then breaking their contract? That was the.
- [12:55]
Johan Berniel
Is that a, is that a rumor? Is it a pure speculation? I'm having a hard time to believe that, Spencer. That cannot be the case. I mean, the safety takes. Anyways. Then the other question is, what's the worth of a contract with Napoli? Are they going to respect it? Are they going to do what the contract says or are you just hoping and crossing your fingers that they're going to expect.
- [13:25]
Spencer Martin
There was a lot of flying around on the broadcast too. We want to tread lightly here. We don't want to be. Yeah, yeah.
- [13:33]
Johan Berniel
But yeah, I think it's, I think it's pure speculation, Spencer. I would even dare to argue that if you make a decision based on safety, for safety reasons, the contract is still valid.
- [13:47]
Spencer Martin
You would imagine that's in there, right? Like that. Yeah, yeah. That in the, in the case of unsafe conditions. Yeah, it happens like all the time. But I could imagine sitting in a meeting with non cycling people because the finish, it was, it was dramatic, we should say. Like, I like the uphill cobbles, I liked the view. You could imagine sitting in a meeting and like it's politic. Local politicians, people from the UCI and they're like, oh, it's going to be a beautiful finish. You're like, looks great, let's do it. People love cobblestones. They love Perry Roubaix. This is going to be great. So you can kind of imagine how this came to be. I don't think it was probably the right decision. But who inspects the course? Like, who is this advanced team that does this?
- [14:31]
Johan Berniel
That's the question. That's the constant question, you know, and there's nobody who can give an answer. I'm pretty sure that this, you know, whatever official inspector, it's just, I don't know, it's something that is there. But you know, listen, if it's somebody or a group of people, because, you know, one inspector cannot be everywhere. If it's a group of people, they basically are, you know, officials call them government officials from the UCI who do the job. Do a job, you know, for, you know, their remuneration. And in my opinion it has to be ex cyclists. Who have been there and see the danger, because any other person will never see what a guy who has been there many times and sees, you know, after the corners or, okay, guys, this is not good. We cannot allow this. This is asking for problems. Unfortunately, we don't know how that protocol works. And then what. I also see a lot, Spencer. I mean, don't want to get off topic here, but, you know, there are. There are certain ex cyclists, ex professional cyclists, even big names who, when I see that they get a function at the UCI, it seems like they forgot they've been a cyclist. It's. It's like, okay, you know, I'm a politician now and this is what I have to do. And, you know, there are people like, for example, I think. I think the cpa, the, you know, the writers union and Adam Hansen, I think is they're doing a really good job. They voice their concerns. They are present at meetings. My question is, how much is their voice taken into account? It seems to me like they listen to them and then they just keep doing whatever they want anyways. I've hardly seen small organizers sometimes get punished for a lack of safety. Never seen a big organizer, never rcs, never aso, not Flanders Classics, the powerful organizations. But ultimately it should be the UCI who is. Or somebody from the UCI who is responsible for approving that course. And then when there's problems and there are so many criticisms and, you know, complaints, then that person should be held accountable. And ultimately it's the UCI who appoints somebody to approve and they have to take their responsibility. It's easy to always push it away on, you know, and now, you know what's going to happen, Spencer, whoever, whether it's. It's RCS or the UCI, they're going to say, well, you know, it's the rider's fault. They went too fast through the corner. Yes, maybe. But this could have been avoided, guys. This could have been avoided. Just make it safer. Because if there's a race to be won, they're going to take risks. So make sure that when they take risks, it's as safe as possible.
- [17:52]
Spencer Martin
I actually would be curious if anyone, I mean, maybe they are inspecting it. It's not clear to me anyone is physically looking at these finishes because it feels like every year we get here and it's two days before, a day before the morning of, and it's like, oh, this isn't safe. It's like, well, did no one look at it until now? Like, how is this now just becoming an issue? Shouldn't this been. Yeah, I don't know. I don't really know enough about how the minutiae of the course are created and when they're also.
- [18:18]
Johan Berniel
You know, what I also think is that some of these ex cyclists who have now this, this leading role, whether it's with race organizers or with the UCI, I'm not saying they can always do what they want. They're under pressure. I'm just going to give you an example. Stage two, we have this massive crash. The race is shortly neutralized until everybody's back, until there are ambulances again. We've seen riders talk to the race director while they were going slowly. I've seen a quote from Jasper Stuyven, who was talking, and I saw this on screen. He was talking to the. To the race directors, and he was, you know, trying to convince them to say, okay, you know what? Let's just neutralize everything till the finish. The guy, I forgot who it was now. It was an ex cyclist. The guy who was in there, he was, you know, pretending he was listening to him, you know, and said, okay, I'm going to consult, you know, I'm going to consult in the car. And next thing Steven knows, I mean, he's. He's gone public with this. So I can say it. He says the guy just, you know, all of a sudden just put his head in the car, was hiding and just waved the flag. Okay, race is back on. So that's probably not what this guy wants, but that's what they told him to do.
- [19:39]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [19:39]
Johan Berniel
You know, it's complicated. It's not easy, but. But I'm sure that this guy, I mean, he's not so long out of cy cycling yet, and. But he can't decide.
- [19:50]
Spencer Martin
Well, that was a different situation, too. That was. The race was happening, they were approaching the final climb. This was not. This was a static situation. They could have decided. Yeah, it's not. I. I would love to know when these courses are seen, because it seems like every year, the morning of is when it's. It's like, whoa, this is what we're finishing. Holy smokes. But I'm. I'm not even sure looking at this,
- [20:15]
Johan Berniel
you know, the teams. The teams, yes. Because, you know, you can't. You can't preview all the. All the stages.
- [20:21]
Spencer Martin
And it's also the middle of a city. Right. So the course doesn't even exist.
- [20:25]
Johan Berniel
So they. They see the. They see the course or they know the course. Like when they look at the road book and then they look on Velo Viewer and they all know it's going to be dangerous. And on top of that, you know, they are, they're all sending people up front so they communicate with people who are at the finish. So everybody knows. But there's still a race going on and there are a lot of things that can be avoided and unfortunately it doesn't happen enough. Well, I think I'm with, I'm with Milan. I mean, I think, you know, Milan is, you know, the best voice you can listen to because he's a sprinter. He knew he was going to be up there. He's Italian, goes there with an ambition and says openly. I don't get why we have to do this. You know, why they keep pushing us and doing this.
- [21:11]
Spencer Martin
I will say, just to play devil's advocate, a sprint. A sprint, sorry, a straight sprint is not always a safe sprint. And if they crash going like 100k an hour, people, why did they add a turn in there? What were they thinking? Yeah, so I mean sometimes I do like a turn 180 feels a little a night. Maybe try a 90. 90 degree turn. Could be.
- [21:32]
Johan Berniel
Yeah. But this was, this was. I mean they came with a lot of speed. It was like slightly downhill on cobbles and then there was this, this turn and it's. It went uphill. So anyways it happened. You know, the advantage, Spencer, is that if there's a crash like this, normally it's, it's very slippery but nobody really gets hurt badly. It's. They slide. You know, it's better on like this, on cobbles than on, than on normal road. Because this is a lot more slippery.
- [22:03]
Spencer Martin
Right. It looked so slippery. Like unbelievable. And it is interesting that so unsafe, et cetera, et cetera. GC teams have just decided it's neutralized. Like there's no jockeying for position from GC teams anymore. Is this a good idea? Do you think this is smart?
- [22:26]
Johan Berniel
What?
- [22:26]
Spencer Martin
What just they just sit back and there's. Remember there was this. It was like a decade of get to the front, get to the front, get to the front. Like BMC was obsessive about this. Get to the front.
- [22:35]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [22:36]
Spencer Martin
And then because they don't want to lose time. I guess there's been a material change because now there has to be a three second gap before there's a time, a time gap is counted. So what. How, how often are you going to be more than three seconds behind it? It kind of makes me think, man, that was pretty stupid. Like why, why were teams doing that? GC contenders were getting in huge crashes for Years. Because of this?
- [22:59]
Johan Berniel
Yeah. I mean, Yeah. I mean, on a stage like today, for example, I mean, you can kind of. And especially with that approach and having the weather forecast, you can kind of calculate, okay, there's a 75% chance of crashing.
- [23:13]
Spencer Martin
Once the trash crash occurs, then.
- [23:16]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, then you're fine.
- [23:18]
Spencer Martin
Then you're fine. Yeah. What. I guess. But what happens if you were deemed off the back before?
- [23:23]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. If you're. No, you need to be attached to the group, but you can be in the back, then of course you have the risk that there's a gap already.
- [23:33]
Spencer Martin
And anyways, I mean, they had 141 riders counted on the same time today, so I don't think they're being sticklers about the gaps.
- [23:43]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
- [23:45]
Spencer Martin
And so it is. I think it's a very good idea. I mean, Visma. Visma's like almost move the needle on this. They're like, hey, we're going to sit at the back. They were at the back with 50k to go. It doesn't stand a reason. If you're with your team, what is the worst that's going to happen? You have seven strong riders at your disposal to chase down a move even if you are caught out. So you're probably okay.
- [24:08]
Johan Berniel
And you do save. You do save so much energy.
- [24:11]
Spencer Martin
Yes.
- [24:11]
Johan Berniel
Plus, plus the great. The helpers also, you know, the, the teammates also save a lot of energy because there's no stress. You just stay, stay united and whatever happens, then you move to the front. Yeah, it's. It's not a bad idea. It's. It depends on the course, you know, it depends on how the final is. But what Visma. I mean, there's one of the team directors who went on record with this, that this is their plan and they're going to do that for whatever stage they think is suitable for this. It's part of their strategy.
- [24:41]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, it is dependent. Like think of stage one of the Tour last year that was just so crazy that maybe you do want to be at the front. The Giro is a little bit different. Davide Ballerini wins the stage. Do you know the last time he won a World Tour race?
- [24:56]
Johan Berniel
Don't tell me. It was omlop with news blocks.
- [24:58]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, 20, 21. So it's been a minute.
- [25:01]
Johan Berniel
That's a long time ago. A strong writer, though. Yeah, he was, you know. You know what? You know, in his, in his last Grand Tour, he finished second on the last stage in Paris behind World Lennart. Wait, wait, he was part of that group and he was in the last
- [25:20]
Spencer Martin
tour that he did,
- [25:23]
Johan Berniel
last year's Tour.
- [25:24]
Spencer Martin
Holy smokes.
- [25:25]
Johan Berniel
If you look, Ballerini was second in the last stage.
- [25:28]
Spencer Martin
Oh, that is a crazy trivia question. Who's gonna get that right?
- [25:31]
Johan Berniel
He was, he was, he was up there. I mean, first of all, he was strong enough to stay with those three, four guys. So it's strong rider. You know, today it was his opportunity. He was there at the right moment and he was not even the protected rider. He was on lead out duty for Malucelli, he said. But yeah, he found himself in that situation and yeah, and he went through
- [25:58]
Spencer Martin
so slowly and on the inside, which was a little less warm, so that probably helped him. But he almost looked like a cross rider going through like a muddy off Camber turn. I think even Stuyven had a foot out of the, of the pedals.
- [26:13]
Johan Berniel
Stuyvin had a foot out in the corner. Yeah, in the corner. So he couldn't make that up. He couldn't make up. I mean, he, he kind of got back to the wheel, but initially I thought Steven would win it. But Ballerini is fast too, you know. Yeah, I mean, I think he won. I think he won a stage in the Tour of Turkey just before the.
- [26:29]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, maybe before the Giro, before this started. Right. Hold on. Yes, I think is that this year he did. Yeah. Stage seven, sprint stage. I didn't. You beat Tom Crab. Yeah, Tom Crabe, who's good. So. Yeah, man, he beat up Fernando. Fernando Gaviria. I forgot that guy was still a pro. But this means Now Paul Monier, 130 points in the points classification. Jonathan Milan, 64, that's already really far down. Also troubling for Jonathan Milan. We might not have a sprint stage until stage 15 in Milan and then stage 21 in Rome. So it's really only two sprint stages left in this race. Two likely sprint stages. This could like is little track in panic mode. What is the mood at that team right now?
- [27:22]
Johan Berniel
I mean, there's not much they can do, you know, I mean, today they were there. Would Milan have won today?
- [27:29]
Spencer Martin
I don't know.
- [27:30]
Johan Berniel
After what I've seen from Manier, I have doubts that he, he could have had a chance. But hey, you have to try. He seemed like he was happy about his form and his legs today compared to other days, so. But what's for sure is that it's definitely for the moment, not the Giro, that Jonathan Milan and little Track have wished for for him in the sprint stages. But anyways, you know, any. Any other sprint stage is different. Although I do think that the way Universe Rockets is riding, I think. I think Grune Wiggin has a stage within the legs too.
- [28:09]
Spencer Martin
Yes. I mean, they look like the dominant sprint team. Also, for Milan, it's. On paper, maybe it looked good, but a lot of these sprints haven't been great for them yet. The cobbled sprint on stage three, you had the cobbled uphill. A cobbled uphill sprint that's not even really a pure sprint finish like you'd see at the Tour de France. And then you have maybe two more. It's. It's not actually the slam dunk parkours that I thought it was. When I glanced at the.
- [28:34]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [28:34]
Spencer Martin
At the. The stage list and then.
- [28:37]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [28:37]
Spencer Martin
His team is splitting between Derek G and the GC and then him in the sprints. So they don't have. They're not the dominant sprint team, even though they have the dominant sprinter. Yeah, it's. It's a. It's a tricky situation. And you think, let's say he leaves this race without a stage win, that's a season done. That's going to the Tour, were they not?
- [28:57]
Johan Berniel
No, he's not going to the Tour. Yeah, man.
- [28:59]
Spencer Martin
So this is a lot of pressure on him for. To get a result here.
- [29:03]
Johan Berniel
Yeah. But hey, cycling is not exact mathematics. You know, it's. Sometimes it doesn't work the way you want it to work. I mean, a lot of times, most of the times, if you're not Pogachar or Vingegaard or Paul6us, most of the times it doesn't work the way you want it to go.
- [29:19]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. I mean, you could definitely tell he was frustrated at the end of the stage. Like, why. Why did we just do that? What do you. What have you done to me? No change in the gc. But before we go to our. Hopefully we have a change in the GC tomorrow that would be shocking if we don't. Before we preview tomorrow's stage, do we want to talk about tires really quick? You have some tire info to share with us?
- [29:43]
Johan Berniel
Yes, yes. I've seen some information on social media about the tire choice of uae. Initially, the first report I saw, I said, that's not too bad. But then I heard Geraint Thomas and Luke Rowe talk about it on their podcast. So it's about the tires of uae. They ride with Continental tires. We all know. Everybody who's a cyclist knows that these GP5000 model is a really good tire. And there's different models in that. So there's a special model for time Trials. It's called GP5000TT and that's apparently their tire of choice for almost all the stages because, you know, they're supposedly faster and lighter than the other models. I saw some pictures from stage two. Adam Yates went down and he was on time trial tires. I don't know what the width is. I'm going to guess 28, but. And then yesterday Arieta went down in that corner. Okay. Of course it's raining again as possible. You know, Eulalio is not on Continental tires. I don't think so. But he went also down. Right. But then we all saw that when Arieta came back after that wrong turn, his tire was slipping on a straight. So I've been doing some research. I mean, I've spoken to somebody from inside Continental and I asked him, I said, do you know if the GP500 5000 TT model has less grip than the S model or the AS model, which is. The S is the race tire by choice. And then the as is all season, which is a bit heavier. All of us who are not racing, we should all ride with AS all season. It's a really good tire. You almost never puncture. And he says for Paridu bed, AS is the best because of puncture protection, but not, not used very much in races. The fastest tire is the arrow 1111 and the second best is the TT. But the S model is the best for everything. Also for grip. So I mean, he doesn't necessarily say that the TT has less grip, but it's a lighter tire so you have more possibilities of puncturing. And I'm personally going to think that the TT has less grip. I think it's not a great decision to ride with time trial because they're fast. I know the riders will probably want them because you can feel the difference when it's a slight super fast tire. You know, tires are often underestimated. The advantage of having a fast tire, it's, it's, it's, it's amazing. But man, on rainy days I, it brought me back to. I don't remember, I think it was 2003. We went with postal. We had this and I, you know, I was always back. Back in the days we were riding 23 millimeter tubulars for the road stages and then there was special time trial tubulars which were 21 and sometimes even 19 for like smooth. I mean it's unthinkable nowadays, but back then that was the standard. And I remember, you know, I made the decision like in time trials and especially in team time trials to avoid any risk. We're always going to ride with the normal road tubulars, the all round, the all rounders, the 23 millimeter Hutchinson's that we were riding and there were teams and some of our biggest competitors, they were obsessed with these time trial tires. I remember one time, the team time trial in 2003, I don't remember where it was, but we won this time trial on our usual normal road tires. And our two rival teams, which were CSC and Phonak, they were convinced that they had to be on time trial tires. Well, guess what? They both had crashes. It was also raining. Their guys went down. You know, I mean it's not the same as now but, but there was already there was a difference between the normal road tire and time trial tire in terms of grip. And I mean it's probably less of a difference now because the time trial tires are not also the same width as the road tire, but the difference in, you know, the different components, the composition of the rubber is probably making a difference. So I mean this guy here from within Continental told me that the s, the Continental GP5000s is the best tire that and they should always use that in road stages and not the time draw tire.
- [35:01]
Spencer Martin
Well, I've been. The UAE just handed me a bike with like just their stock setup on it. And so it was the, it's like the aero bike that they all ride with the TT tires. It is very, they're very fast. So I guess we should say that they're very fast. I just replaced, they just ran, you know, they run out. Like they just fall apart on you. You can tell they're meant for speed, not for durability. I put the as on the 5000 as great tire. You can feel it's heavier. So you could. Yeah, like, right, but yeah, right. For most of us, like we just don't want to flat. That's great for anyone that's not trying to win a professional bike race. I, I guess my one pushback would be could, would the riders say like, well, it doesn't matter if I don't crash because I'm just going to get dropped. So I need to have these super fast tires. That must be what they're thinking.
- [35:50]
Johan Berniel
Grant Thomas, I mean he was, he went pretty in detail. Like he, he, he said that they had Continental tires also on ineos and they had been riding on the time trial tires, the TT tires. And you know, once you get used to it, it's hard to, you know, say, okay, I don't want the TT tire because you know it's going to be rougher terrain or maybe rain. I want a different tire. But they, they did end up switching for, for stages where there was possibility of rainbow. Yeah, I mean, listen, they've probably done their research. Research and they must have a reason to use them. But, but I, I think sometimes, you know, giving a little bit in, in terms of performance and going for safety is probably sometimes worth it. Especially in a Grand tour. Yeah. Yeah.
- [36:39]
Spencer Martin
I mean, yes, not crashing is, is big. These tires, they also, they have no grip in the, in the wet. So it is a little crazy to me that they would run them on a wet stage. As Garen Thomas said, it is a little like doing drugs. You get a little bit, you can't, you can't stop. So maybe that's what's going on there. Yeah, don't crash is pretty good. That's a pretty good strategy in a Grand Tour. Try not to crash on a wet stage. Maybe use grippier tires.
- [37:05]
Johan Berniel
Well, I mean it's, it's, it's, it's strange to be, it's, it's strange to, to understand because I think that the design and the, the profile, these, you know, it's, it's the same kind of, it's, they're all, they're slick tires and then they have this, designs on it, you know, to kind of get more grip or get the water evacuated faster. And it seems to me like they're all the same, they all have the same design on the, on the roller, on the rolling surface. Yeah, yeah.
- [37:35]
Spencer Martin
There's a lot about tires I don't understand and like sometimes the speed in the grip is not related to the actual physical structure of the tire, but how it gets formed on the road. And yeah, I, I think too if it's, if it's just a big chunk of rubber, like a chunkier rubber, then that design is going to have more effect than the TT one, which you do feel like is, is kind of thin. I, I, it was the first thing
- [37:59]
Johan Berniel
I'm just giving, I'm just giving my thoughts based on, you know, like just my own. I mean, I have no scientific evidence at all, you know, from the difference, I mean, and I'm sure that at UAE they've done the research. They've definitely done the research, they've tested all the tires. But, but you know, yeah, I mean, I'm going off what this guy from inside Continental says also that the S And the as have more grip than the tt.
- [38:33]
Spencer Martin
I mean you can, you can feel it when you ride them. The the as way grippier than the time trial.
- [38:39]
Johan Berniel
I don't, I mean I'm only riding as so I, I love it. I mean you, you can, it's like
- [38:44]
Spencer Martin
an ad for Continental. Yeah, it is a great time.
- [38:46]
Johan Berniel
I mean, yeah, I, I, I, I, I really like the tire and you can lean, you know, like you can feel in corners. I mean not in the wet because I never ride in the wet but you can feel the difference. I mean I have not tried the S or the tt but man, it's, it's, it's the, they're all road, they're all season tire is a really good tire.
- [39:10]
Spencer Martin
And I, I was just thinking even before all of this came up, I think tires are probably the biggest gain that's happened in the last 10 years. You know, it's like speeds have increased. Obviously arrow is important and all that. These tires are really fast. Like, like even for us. I, I, I feel like I notice myself going faster with less fitness because of the tires. So the tires are super important. The thing that nobody also be placebo
- [39:35]
Johan Berniel
and, and psychological and just the feeling or do you see it in this?
- [39:38]
Spencer Martin
I definitely see it. Like I did a. We, we are too far in the weeds. I, I, I did a group ride on a course where I've done like a thousand versions of this ride and this is the most unfit I've probably ever been on that course. And it was the fastest. I wrote it so.
- [39:54]
Johan Berniel
But you also have the fastest bike in years.
- [39:57]
Spencer Martin
That's true. The bike is faster. But you just, we always talk like how could we possibly what could possibly be that much faster about the bike. And I do think the tires and the fact that it's tubeless. It's a big fat tubeless tire. I think that is quite a bit less rolling resistance than when think about the, the rolling resistance of 120psi. Like 23mil tire. Probably pretty low. Probably not great. Yeah.
- [40:22]
Johan Berniel
We thought back in the days we thought that that that was, that had to be, you know, that's how you know if you were only six and a half, seven bars, that was like not enough.
- [40:32]
Spencer Martin
You're getting higher like on a. Yeah. Anytime you go over a bump. Well, let's take a quick break and then we'll preview tomorrow's super important stage.
- [40:38]
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- [41:39]
Spencer Martin
Okay, Johan. Stage seven tomorrow. This is crazy. We had to look at this twice because I thought it was a mistake. This is the first big GC stage. Summit finish at Blockhouse. 244 kilometer stage. It's like a monument inside of a grand tour. 4400 meters of climbing and then the final climb, Blockhouse. 13 kilometers at 8 and a half percent. So it's long and steep. I mean, we were comparing it to alpine climbs yesterday. It's. It's steeper. It's as long and steeper than Alpe d'. Huez. So it's a very serious climb, by the way. It's like 15,000ft of climbing instead of meters. So very hard stage. The two big questions. The first question, who's going to win? The second question is, is a breakaway? What is a breakaway going to win? Because the stage is so long, it's also laid out very oddly. It has a slight kicker to start descent and then rolling terrain for 133k, which is the length, almost the length of today's entire stage. And then we start climbing. We have a Cat 2 climb. We. We have an uncategorized climb that's 10K at 5%. Not quite sure how. That's not categorized. Then we descend and then we have a 7k long climb at 6 and a half percent. Then we have a bunch more uncategorized climbs that are pretty hard. Then we descend down and then summit finish at Block House, Red Bull kilometer half halfway up. I would bet a breakaway takes those bonus seconds. I'd don't think they'll be sorry. It's like not halfway up. I misspoke. It's probably an eighth of the way up. So breakaway probably takes that and then summit finish. How does this play out and who do you think is going to win?
- [43:18]
Johan Berniel
Well, I mean, the first question is, can a breakaway make it? Right? It depends who's in the breakaway, but I'm going to say the breakaway doesn't make it because in my opinion, Bahrain is going to control this stage. They want to keep Eulalio in the jersey, and he's capable of staying in the jersey. You know, he has a six something minute lead on Jonas. And how much does he have on Arieta?
- [43:48]
Spencer Martin
Three minutes. Basically 257 on Arieta? Yeah. Yeah. Isn't that crazy?
- [43:53]
Johan Berniel
Okay, so who's the closest? Indeed. Okay, so he's 251 now.
- [43:57]
Spencer Martin
He picked up some bonus seconds.
- [43:59]
Johan Berniel
Yeah. So he's not. I think, I think tomorrow loses between two and three minutes. Worst case, he's a good climber and he's in good shape, so. And he's riding for, you know, the fame of his life. Right. So I don't think he's going to get out of pink. I think personally that Jonas wins solo on a climb like this. 13.5 kilometers, 8.5%. I don't think anybody can stay with Jonas. Depends on the wind. But still, I think, I think Jonas wins. I mean, Blockhouse is. It's a very important climb. You know, when it was first featured in the. In the Giro.
- [44:47]
Spencer Martin
19. 1952.
- [44:50]
Johan Berniel
1968. 1968. And a young rider, a young writer won that stage. That young writer was Eddie Merckx.
- [45:01]
Spencer Martin
Must been like, what, his first year pro or something? 1968?
- [45:05]
Johan Berniel
No, no, no, no, no, NO. He was in 1968. He was, yeah. He had been world champion already, but he was not world champion then. I think he was on. I think he was on. On F, actually. Yes, he was on F. It was his first Giro that he won. Actually. I should know this because funny side note, 1968 is the first Grand Tour that Eddy Merckx won the Giro. I've always known about this because my father, when I was little, he was always talking about Eddie Merckx and the stage two Treccimi di Lavaredo, which he won, which was. There's epic images of that stage in the snow. So I've always heard about this. Eddy Merckx was also on Blockhouse, ended up winning the. Winning that Giro. I actually. I mean, I actually, you know, I have a passion for vintage bikes, and I actually possess the original bike of 1968 of Eddie Merckx, which he won with, which is, you know, a super, super nice piece of history. But. So, yeah, Eddie Merckx won the first time, and then there's two other writers. I mean, there's many. There's been other. Other times, but 2014, Nairo Quintana won on Blockhouse and ended up winning the GC. And 2022, Jay Hindley won the stage on Blockhouse and ended up winning the Giro. So I guess the guy who wins tomorrow, if it's one of the favorites, is winning the Giro. And I'm going to predict that's going to be Jonas Vingard.
- [46:55]
Spencer Martin
I hate to be a buzzkill, but I don't think they did this in 2014. I think they did it in 2017 when Nairo won and then, remember, he narrowly lost
- [47:08]
Johan Berniel
2017. Yeah, sorry, sorry. But he was. And ended up winning the. Winning the GC. Yeah. 2017. Sorry.
- [47:17]
Spencer Martin
Well, in 2014, he wins the GC. 2017, he wins on Block House, but loses GC by 31 seconds. Okay, but it was close. It was a close loss to Dumoulin. That was the famous, infamous year that everyone remembers well. Dumoulin had to stop for an issue in the Dolomites.
- [47:35]
Johan Berniel
Is that already. Are you telling me that Tom Dumoulin
- [47:38]
Spencer Martin
won almost 10 years ago?
- [47:41]
Johan Berniel
10 years ago?
- [47:41]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. It's messed up.
- [47:42]
Johan Berniel
That's crazy.
- [47:43]
Spencer Martin
It's crazy, man.
- [47:44]
Johan Berniel
We're getting old, Spencer. We are ready.
- [47:47]
Spencer Martin
It's pretty messed up, dude. I remember watching that zero so vividly. And it's a decade ago, basically.
- [47:55]
Johan Berniel
That's crazy.
- [47:56]
Spencer Martin
It's crazy. But you're right. There's like. No. You rarely get outlier. Wins on this climb in the last time.
- [48:02]
Johan Berniel
Okay, well, my mistake. I thought it was 2014 that Quintana.
- [48:06]
Spencer Martin
I just didn't want our comments.
- [48:08]
Johan Berniel
Won the gc. But it's. Yeah, he didn't win. Okay. He won it in 2017.
- [48:14]
Spencer Martin
Well, it is actually hard to map out a scenario where Jonas doesn't win, because if you think about a breakaway, just crunchy numbers.
- [48:22]
Johan Berniel
The.
- [48:23]
Spencer Martin
The Strava Kom on this climb is 40 minutes. Steve Opino, probably you. You said the fastest ever time is like 39, 57 by Nairo. He's.
- [48:31]
Johan Berniel
He's. Well, I mean the Quintana has the fastest time of, you know, the last. The last few years. In last few years. It's already 10 years ago. But he's like 39, 50 something.
- [48:46]
Spencer Martin
Tell him to get on Strava. It didn't happen. But let's assume Jonas does 38 minutes tomorrow, gets the record by about a minute. Then a good GC rider like our Ilario, let's say he loses three minutes. So 41 minutes. A guy in the breakaway for 244K, is he gonna lose seven minutes, you think? Eight minutes, like and. And then you'd still be in the top 10 of the Strava segment. So that's like very. Still climbing, very fast. It's just hard to imagine a breakaway having eight minutes at the base of the final climb. I don't think it's gonna happen. DraftKings doesn't think it's gonna happen either. Cause these are the odds of the stage. Jonas Finnegard minus 250. Palazzari plus 500. Felix Gall plus 1600. Chacone plus 2000. Jai Hindley plus 3000. Disrespect for Jai Henley. I know. Rubio plus 3000. I'm going to go with you, Johan. I think Jonas Ver God wins the stage. And I think the best we can hope for is it's a small win and it's still competitive by the end. Because part of me, these guys look. Do. Do you think they look very unbothered by this entire race so far, that entire team. It just. It feels like it's a joke to them.
- [49:58]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [49:59]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [49:59]
Johan Berniel
And also have in mind, Spencer, tomorrow is going to be very hard on the riders because, you know, a lot of riders have not recovered from yesterday's efforts. You know, the horrible day in the rain and the cold and the hail, it takes its toll. And tomorrow we're going to see some dead bodies after 244km tomorrow. Wow.
- [50:19]
Spencer Martin
I mean the brakes.
- [50:21]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, that's.
- [50:22]
Spencer Martin
They weren't even chasing the longest stage
- [50:25]
Johan Berniel
of all the grand tours in the last long time. I don't know. Yeah.
- [50:29]
Spencer Martin
Time wise, it might not be unbelievably long because it is flat for the first time and I flat. It's rolling for the first half. So there may. You know, there's probably been alpine mountain stages that are up and down the whole time that have taken a very long time in recent years. So maybe this is done in like.
- [50:46]
Johan Berniel
I don't know.
- [50:47]
Spencer Martin
What do you think? Six hours? Six and a half?
- [50:50]
Johan Berniel
Six, four, 400 meters?
- [50:55]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [50:55]
Johan Berniel
It's gonna take more than six hours.
- [50:57]
Spencer Martin
This is too long. This stage is too long. How. How did this get approved? It's crazy, but that's the zero, man. Old school, old school, old school. But you could tell they're messed. They're messed up because no one's really chasing the breakaway today. The gap is not going out. First of all, the teams that were supposed to be in it didn't even get in it. The gap isn't going out and there's guys getting dropped from the break. Well, while the gap. There's no one chasing. The gap isn't going up. And there's people getting dropped from the breakaway today. So I think, yeah, I think you're right. People are. Are on their knees already from the stage. On stage. A lot of writers said it was the hardest stage they'd ever done in their life. Like it was that draining.
- [51:37]
Johan Berniel
I've seen images. I've seen images from writers, you know, like shivering, like they didn't. They couldn't talk, you know, they were. They were. It was horrible. And then I saw an interview of Tom Mudumoulin who was at the finish, and he said, man, he said, I feel for these guys. He said, I have never in my life been in a situation like this that it was so hard, so cold. Maybe he forgot already, but yeah, it was horrible. And some riders will pay the price from yesterday's efforts.
- [52:14]
Spencer Martin
Well, I. I think you're right. I think Jonas Vinegar is going to win. And we'll be here to talk about it right after the stage tomorrow. So join us.
- [52:21]
Johan Berniel
Okay.
- [52:22]
Spencer Martin
All right. Thanks, Johan.
- [52:30]
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- [53:00]
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