A (2:45)

As, as.

B (2:46)

Because initially he started the season AS on the development team of Visma and then he went back and forth and then finally I think they promoted him like fixed already on, on, on the World Tour team. But definitely, I mean he was 19 years old last year. A great season. Who else do we have? Paul 6 US what to say about him. Right? Yeah, we still, we still need to talk about him. But this year I think he's still 19 years old. So it's still an up and comer. Although he has arrived already. He was third in the European Championships on the road this year in the Elite and won the Tour de l' Avenue as an under 23 rider. But you know, he is considered the biggest, the biggest talent and the French people are obviously waiting anxiously for him to start the Tour de France. I don't think that's going to be the case yet this season but, but definitely those two have confirmed other riders. I mean Jorgen, we there also did the majority of his races on the development team but won the European Championships, if I'm not mistaken. Right? Yeah. On a really, really hard course. And then people Del Grosso, people Grosso. I think that that rider is, you know, he comes from cyclocross initially pure cyclocross rider. Started to try his luck on the road. I could see already a few really, really good races from him. I still remember his, his performances in the Tour of Catalunya. Volta Catalunya, which is a world, World Tour race. And now he's shown that, you know, even in cyclocross he's the best behind Mathieu van der Poel just recently on Sunday finished second in the World Championships Cyclocross Elite. Although he still was entitled to raise the under 23 and there's many others, you know, but I think those, those names are probably the ones that, that stick out the most that have confirmed to be really big, big, big talents.

A (4:54)

Yeah, I would say Brent, I mean all of those, all those guys are really good. Brendan I think had the most surprising year to me. I mean those were serious. I think he won 12 races last year, 12 pro races, which is ridiculous. We were debating before the show is Paul Seychelles. He's 19 now he was 18 last year. Is he the best 18 year old in the history of the sport? I would say probably.

B (5:19)

I think so. I think so. I mean obviously it's difficult to say because, you know, until, until not very long ago as an 18 year old you were not even entitled to race in the pros. Right. I think Remco was the bit of the pioneer who changed that, you know, being 18, 19 and turned pro. But, but yeah, I mean listen, he's, he's the real deal. You know, he, his first Dauphine, I think he was top seven, seventh or eighth. And just before the Tour de France, I still remember freshly this Tour of the Alps where he raced with decathlon and, and gave the stage to a teammate to. Is it, was it Nicolas Prudhomme? Yeah, he gave the stage because he said, yeah, you know, I'm going to give it to him because he's never won a race, this rider and I'm still, I'm still young, I'm going to, I'm going to have enough opportunities. Turns out that Nicolas Prudhomme I think ended up the season with five or six races race wins. And Paul Sechas didn't win a single one in the pros.

A (6:25)

Right.

B (6:25)

He did win two Lavanier and many other races. But anyways, he's a huge talent. I would say, I would say he's probably the best 18 year old we've ever seen.

A (6:38)

Yeah. Which is impressive. What if that's a sliding doors moment, Nicola? Nicolas Prudhomme goes on to win the Tour de France. Paul Seychelles never wins a pro race because he gave that, that stage up. But he's very good. The best ever I would say at 18. We'll talk about it later. But the key to all of this, you don't want to be the best 18 year old ever in the history of the sport. You want to continue to improve and be maybe the best writer in the history of the sport. Like Pagatra, every year gets better. Like he's still improving. So if you want to, you know, compete against him, you have to get better yourself. So the key to all of this, I just want to say it up top, all of these people are fantastic. They have to get better if they want to go on to win major pro races. Matthew Brennan, I think, I mean he look, he looks even better to me so far this year in the limited time we've seen him than he did last year. So he's clearly improving. The key will be improvement. I re listened to last year's show Lance was hinting that he wanted, you know, it's like, oh, instead of just naming these, maybe we have some ranking system. So I thought we would each take, you know, this is a really limited list. Six riders total, three for each of us. And then we have draft picks. So we, you know, we pretend we're American teams, like American pro sports teams, and we're drafting the best prospects. So I'll let you go first, Johan, you're. And then you're going to say who your first draft pick is if, if they invent. If they allowed cycling teams to have a draft. Imagine we each have the worst pro cycling teams. So we get first draft pick in, in the 2026 Pro Cycling Draft. Who are you taking?

B (8:14)

Well, I mean the, the, the issue we are having nowadays is a really. They're super young. And then on top of that, the guys I'm going to pick, except, except the first one. But the three, all three are 19 years old. And since we have this system now that the big teams have their development teams and they can switch them over during the season for certain races. So we don't really know how many professional races they're going to ride. Right. But I mean, it's come to a point now that when you. We had one guy here, I had one guy, he's 23. I mean, I still consider him a young writer and he's not even. I mean, he doesn't come into contention here, into what we're trying to debate. But my first pick is Slovenian Rider, 19 years old, Jakob Omerzel. I checked the pronunciation, so it's definitely Omerzel. Two years ago, one of our ex writers and good friend Yanni Brajkovic, I asked him, I said, who's a big Slovenian talent? And he said back then, he said, Jakob Omersell. Turned out that he was right. You know, in 2025 he won the. The Giro d'. Italia. The what they call it the Baby.

A (9:41)

Giro or the Giro Next Giro to tell you. Next gen. Next gen. Yeah, yeah.

B (9:46)

He won the Slovenian championships, all categories. So he is the reigning Slovenian champion. And he was also fourth in the Tour of Slovenia with the pros as, as a 19 year old, you know, tall, tall, really tiny, you know, thin guy, you know, he's 1 meter 85, which is quite a tall. I mean, it's a bit over 6 foot and he's 62 kilos, but looks great on the bike, I think huge engine. So he's gonna be my first pick. Of my three choices for this show Jakob Omersel from Slovenia and he's riding for Bahrain. What is it Bahrain? Is it Bahrain victorious now? Yeah.

A (10:34)

Bahrain victorious.

B (10:35)

Okay. Bahrain victorious. Yeah.

A (10:37)

We'll find out someday what the company victorious does. But they're run. They're run. But you know what it is?

B (10:42)

It's not a, it's.

A (10:43)

No, I know, I'm kidding.

B (10:45)

It's the team, it's the team of the, the prince. The Prince of Bahrain who is the owner of the team. And so he has a name for all of his teams. So he sponsors a lot of different sports. He, he does endurance horse racing where he is actually double world champion, I think. Himself, his, himself riding the horse. He has triathlon teams.

A (11:09)

Yeah. Big triathlon team.

B (11:10)

Yeah, yeah. He's a big triathlete himself. Super fit guy.

A (11:15)

Yeah. You. I live in Boulder, Colorado. It's the home, the home of triathlon. You see a lot of Bahrain victorious kits around for triathlon. And we should say to be eligible for this we only did. Right. Who's the oldest you could be is 20 years old racing at 20 in the 2026 season and you couldn't have been mentioned last year. So you know, if we were just doing this, I would prob just say Paul Monier. That's my up and comer and he's going to go out and win 15 races and I'd look like a genius. But you know we already mentioned Paul Monier. Paul Money has already been a pro, you know, in years before this. So this is a really limited pool we're picking. Not limited, but this window is smaller than you know, we're not picking Paul Seychas. That, that would also be someone that would be a slam dunk to pick. I'm going to go with my number one draft pick, Lorenzo Finn, 19 year old Italian on Red Bull. Like Johan said, he's on the Red Bull Bora Hansgro rookies team. But he also could be racing. He probably will do races for the senior team this year. He already did the team time trial at the Challenge Mallorca. The victorious team time trial team for Red Bull with Remco Evanopole and Florian Lipowitz on it. That's you know, if they're throwing you in there at 19 and they're practicing their, their Tour de France time trialing. That's, that's a pretty big, pretty big honor. But he is the, his I guess claim to fame, let's say is he won the U23 World Championship last year in Rwanda. And you might say, well, what's the big deal about that? U23. Not. It's not as prestigious it used to be. Well, he, I believe he was the youngest rider in the U23 World Championship race and he won the junior race the year before. So in consecutive years, he won the Junior World Championship road race and then backed it up with a U23 World Championship road race. So might not sound like a lot, but if you're 18 years old racing against riders that are just about 23, that is a massive physical gap. It's about half, like the most important half decade of your development. And he beat them all. So very, very, very good rider. And to stress how young these guys are, I was talking to someone at Ruler Live, a young. What I thought as a child, walked up to this person to talk to them and I thought it was just a fan. It was another podcast right there, just like, oh, look at this kid. This kid likes cycling podcasts.

B (13:34)

How.

A (13:34)

How sweet. No, it was Lorenzo Finn. I thought he was just a kid walking around the show by himself, but it really, like hammered home how young these guys are and what we expect from them, you know, at such a young age. But I think Lorenzo Finn, big, big talent. I believe he has a British parent. You know, his name is. Last name is Finn. He's Italian. I think he grew up in Italy, but with a British parent.

B (13:59)

So he speaks perfect English.

A (14:00)

Perfect English.

B (14:01)

He speaks British. Yeah, yeah, yeah, It's Lorenzo Mark Finn is his full name, I think. Yeah. Speaks perfect English. One of both. One of his parents is. I mean, it's probably his dad who's. Who's English.

A (14:14)

Yeah, I would assume with his, with his last name being Finn. But it also helps your career too, because if you speak Italian and English fluent, especially in modern cycling where everybody want, you know, the big teams want you to speak English, allows you to move teams easier, gives you access just to different perspectives. But I think he's going to be a big talent in the coming years.

B (14:34)

Yeah, yeah, for sure. For sure. My second choice is Spanish rider, also 19 years old. He's now on the UAE. What is it called? UAE. Gen Z team. Yeah, Called Adria Pericas. Adria Pericas. He's a climber, but he's a very complete rider. You know, he's repeatedly named among, you know, the best next wave of climbers and Grand Tour talents. And I've seen some races of him. He's, you know, he's. He dares to race, dares to attack. Very strong rider, Adria Pericas. 19 years old, small guy, super light, but, you know, top. He's. I think he's top. Top in his category. I don't know what his results were in the worlds, but I think he was up there too.

A (15:31)

Top 10 U23 worlds.

B (15:35)

Yeah.

A (15:35)

Which is. I mean, it was. He. If I. If I'm not mis. Mistaken, he was the writer that was. Popped off Remco's wheel the other day. It challenged my orca. No, that's.

B (15:45)

That's another writer. I'm gonna name him as my third choice.

A (15:48)

Okay.

B (15:49)

Yeah.

A (15:50)

All right. Are we. I think I actually incorrectly said Antonio Morgata was the guy.

B (15:54)

Oh, no, sorry. Sorry. So. No, you're right. You're right. You're right, Spencer.

A (15:57)

I only remember because I went back to double check myself.

B (16:00)

You're right. He was in the breakaway. He was in the breakaway and he was the last rider to stay on the wheel of Remco. And actually he stayed on the wheel of Remco Evenepoel during the whole climb. The college player. And he got dropped in the downhill, which was a bit strange.

A (16:16)

Yeah. What. What did we ever. I mean, I guess if you're 19 and you're not used to the descent. I was surprised. Yeah. That he got dropped on the descent because, you know, it also shows you.

B (16:27)

You could also say. I mean, I. I also think that Remco has improved a lot in the downhill.

A (16:32)

Yes. And I was going to say it shows you how good these top pros are at descending, that you can be a top U23 rider and a poor descender can drop you on the descent. He also has. He's done that descent a lot in the last few weeks because I think they've been posted up in my orca.

B (16:48)

Yeah.

A (16:48)

No, I think that's a great pick. This guy's really. To be the last rider dropped by Remco in that race is super impressive.

B (16:56)

Yeah.

A (16:58)

My second draft pick. This is a real. This is a bit of an oddball pick out of left field. I'm taking a risk with this one, but, you know, you don't want to follow. You don't want to follow the herd. You're not going to stand out. I'm going Jan Huber Uber on Tutor Pro Cycling. He's on the U23 team. He's 20 years old. He got second at the championships. We just discussed the World U23 Championships. He was second behind Lorenzo Finn. And the reason I'm picking him, other than I think he has a nice little Palmeres. He got fifth at gravel race burn. That, that's a huge, a huge one. But he has like good, good results at Swiss, you know, pro continental level racing, which at 19 years old is impressive. But really if you. This not. Did not used to be the case. But if you go through the podium finishers of the U23 World Championships and especially pick younger riders who do well, it's. It's actually shocking. The success rate. It didn't like it used to. The data used to be a lot Messier but like 2023. Do you know who got second at U23 World Championships 2023, where was. Was in Glasgow?

B (18:13)

Antonio Morgabo.

A (18:15)

Exactly. So he. And then you know who got second the year before that in Walagong? Matthias Vachek. So pretty good. Oh, wow. I mean in this 2022, one in particular you had.

B (18:27)

Is that where the, the German guy Herzog won?

A (18:31)

No, it's actually Yevgeny Fedorov.

B (18:35)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (18:36)

He's a good writer. And then Soren Walkinskold was third, Mattis Mikos was fourth. Fifth was Olaf Coy. Six is Pavel Bittner. Those are all extremely good writers.

B (18:48)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's definitely something that has changed a lot in the last five, six, seven years. Because I remember before, you know, people, guys who were top dominating the. The World Championships under 23. And some of them, most of them, they didn't.

A (19:06)

Most of them, yeah. You look at these, you know, I, I went back and looked at Taday Pagatra. He's not that old. The U23 Slovenian National Championships, I believe Pagachar was ninth. There's not a single other rider in that race that's a current professional and that was not unusual for a long time.

B (19:24)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (19:27)

I don't know what's changed, but I guess you're seeing writers hit their peak or hit their full potential earlier. So you get cleaner, cleaner data from that. But yeah, I'm going Jan Huber. It's just you don't if that course was incredibly hard too. Yeah. So if you get second on that course, it's not a fluky. There's no Copenhagen World Championship course.

B (19:46)

So yeah, he must be a big engine.

A (19:51)

Yeah.

B (19:51)

But my, my third choice is another rider from Spain. So Pericas is from Spain, is also young 19 years old, Hector Alvarez. He's on the little track development team. He was fourth at the World Championships in Kigali, third in the European Championships. You know, two very, very, very hard races. And if you look at his, his build, you Know, the guy's super tall. He's 1 meter 90 centimeters and he's 74 kilos, you know, and to be fourth in Kigali and third in France with that weight, that means you have a huge engine. And then. Yeah, so anyway, he's considered as, you know, a really, really top talent here in Spain. Little Trek was, was, you know, right to sign him. And he already proved straight away. It's only, of course, you know, the season just started. It's only the challenge Mallorca. But he in. On the first stage was really bad weather up and down. There were a few climbs and he was the only guy who was with Antonio Morgado. They came both to the finish in really, really bad, bad conditions, bad weather. And I had the impression that in the last part of the race, he was actually stronger than Morgado. He got second because Morgado beat him in the sprint. But to say that, you know, 19 years old, first race with the pros and straight away second, and also taking the initiative, you know, it's not like, okay, it's a guy who's in the wheels and then finally the situation turns in his favor at the end. He really made the race in the last 40, 50k and finished, finished second. So definitely Hector Alvarez from Benidorm, I think, or in that area. Yeah, definitely.

A (21:47)

A name to follow is a good sign. A good, I guess, predictive measurement is if you're that if your frame is that big, but you're doing that well on extremely tough courses. It's like what you said, you must be up a massive engine. That's a good thing to look for. My third pick is Leo. Leo, Leo Bissau Biso on decathlon. The decathlon, I believe Biso, he's on the senior team, I believe the World Tour team. He was on the development team in years past. He's only 20 years old.

B (22:23)

I, I remember him being junior world Championship cyclocross.

A (22:26)

Spencer, this guy, probably like two years ago, three years ago, which is wild that he could have a result that old at only 20. Bit of an oddball pick as well. I mean, he's. He raced. This guy's 20. He's already raced the Vuelta Espana. You raced it last year. Was in multiple breakaways, which is not, you know, it's not easy to get in any breakaway in any race, but to get in breakaways at that age in a Grand Tour is impressive. The thing that really stuck out to me though is Vuelta Burgos, which you might not think of. That's not the biggest race in the world. But he won a stage there ahead of very good riders. Wins a stage ahead of Julio Ciccone, Julio Pelizare, Isaac Del Toro, Lorenzo Fortunato, which is. Those are very good riders. Also the GC of that race that's won by Del Toro, Fortunato, second. He was third, ahead of Elizari, ahead of Chicone, ahead of Ego Bernal, head of Torsten Train, who we know was on very good form. These are really good senior riders operating at the peak of their powers. And he's beating or competing. Be competing with them or beating them, which is not easy to do. I do think that. I also think that team has a lot. Like we talked about, Paul Seychas, he's on that team as well. It's a very good core. They seem to be doing a good job of developing riders. So I would go with Leo Biso as someone to watch out for in 2026.

B (23:47)

Yeah, yeah, I agree. I agree. It's very, very thin. Very looks. He looks very fragile. I saw him. He was. He was in the world championship cyclocross again also this year, last weekend in under 23. But he. I mean, I don't know if he had a problem. He was up there for a moment and then he finally, he. He kind of fell back a little bit. But. But, yeah, really, really, really big talent. I agree.

A (24:15)

I like to see riders, too, that are just capable cross riders because it tells you they have, you know, like, an extra gear in terms of bike handling. Because you see a lot of riders that could come in and rack up results in junior races, U23 races, maybe they don't have the best handling, but if you're doing cross racing, it shows that you definitely have some sort of handling. But let's take a quick break, Johan, and then we'll talk about the riders that didn't make this list. And then a few tre. You know, a few larger trends. And then question like, is, is any of this good for the writers? Like, do you want to be good this young? What's the key to a long career and getting results later? But we'll be right back after this, everybody. This episode is brought to you by Oneskin. What I like most about Oneskin is how straightforward it is. I've been using their daily moisturizer as part of my morning routine, and it's one of those products just quietly works. The texture is light, it layers easily, and it does not feel greasy or heavy, which matters if you're going to use it every day. Or, or if you're working out maybe multiple times a day, which it really helps if it's light. And what first got my attention was that One Skin was founded by a team of PhD scientists and it's built around real research, not just Type. Their patented OS1 peptide is designed to target cells which play a big role in visible skin aging. And the science has been validated in multiple peer reviewed studies. Since using it, my skin feels smoother and more balanced. And I've been surprised at how simple it's made. My routine. No irritation, no overload, just a product that works, which is what matters. And. And so, born from a decade of longevity research, One Skin's OS1 peptide is proven to target the visible signs of aging, helping you unlock your healthiest skin. Now, as you age. For a limited time, try One Skin with 15% off using code the move at One Skin CO. The move that's O N Skin CO not not dot com. The move that's 15% off One Skin at One Skin CO with code the Move. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support the show by saying the move again. Once again.co to move. All right, let's get back to the episode. Okay, Johan, so we'll just call this the honorable mention section. And then we'll also shout out a few Americans for our American audience. But are there any writers that you were on the fence with and didn't make this? And can you explain why they. They didn't make the cut?

B (26:33)

I mean, there's many. Because if we're only able to pick three, there's many. You know, there's one writer, for example, who I think will, and it's still the question. Also, let's not forget most of these writers are on these development teams. So they have, they have a big program already. And so, you know, they try them out now and then with the pros. But you know, normally they should, for their own development, do a normal program in the development in the under 23 category. One rider, I forgot his first name now, but his printer is called Maganotti. 19 years old. He's on the development team of the Red Bull rookies. I just saw him finishing third in his first professional race in Mallorca. Bunch print. He's a sprinter. He won 15 races last year. 15 races as a first. Was it, Was he. No, I think it was his first year development. So first. First year under 23. I think last year he won 15 races already. So he's a pure sprinter like he's, he's super strong built. But I think that guy is going to win a lot of races already in 2026, but for sure in the future he's super fast.

A (27:54)

Name is Alessio Alicia.

B (27:58)

Alessio going to.

A (27:59)

Very, very big talent. Very good writer, as you say. Actually, I'm trying to. I. God, I have this vague memory of. Might have been 2018, Tour California, a young sprinter from Belgium. I mean, this guy must have been in his teens.

B (28:17)

I know, I know who you're going to say.

A (28:19)

Yeah, making noise at the front of. I mean, it's very hard to be a teenager and sprinting as well as Alessio is. And this young sprinter came in and just. I just remember being blown away by his confidence in his ability. And that sprinter is Jasper Phillipson and probably is. Well, we were debating this, I think off Mike, but probably is the current. Currently the best sprinter in the world, at least in Grand Tours. So.

B (28:41)

Yeah, he was on the team of Axel Merckx.

A (28:43)

No. Yeah, he was on Hagen Hagens Berman.

B (28:46)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (28:47)

Which was almost 10 years ago at this point. That's crazy. Time is flying. But I, he really stuck out to me. I mean, to be, to go in and be a teenager and mix it up in these bunch prints like we saw the other day. I think that was Saturday or Sunday. Not easy to do as a teenager. And it does speak well of their confidence and ability to stay up there as they get older. Yeah, someone I, Well, I, I feel like you let off. It's such a strong one there. It makes it hard to back, to back anything up. But somebody I considered picking, didn't pick. I watched this guy win a stage of the tour. About SAS in person in 2024 and I've, you know, followed him since is Noah Hobbs. He's on EF Education. Easy post sprinter, kind of like a sprinter all rounder. But yeah, 21, big talent. I would keep an eye on him for. Yeah, he won the points classification at Tour de l' Avenue this year. This last year.

B (29:40)

He's the type. Matthew Brennan.

A (29:42)

Yes.

B (29:43)

Matthew Brennan, yes.

A (29:44)

Yeah. And I believe he has a brother, Henry Hobbs, who is on the Visa team. Yeah, but exactly. Reminds me a lot of Matthew Brennan, I believe. Actually older than Matthew Brennan, if you can believe it. But good rider, knows how to win. Powerful, versatile, all the things you want.

B (30:03)

There's another rider. I mean, he doesn't qualify for. For. I mean. But Noah Hubs also doesn't qualify because he's already. Is he 21 already?

A (30:11)

Yeah, yeah.

B (30:12)

DQ for being too old. Another rider, I'm just gonna check his age. He's 21.2 but I've seen him already in great shape in the first races. Colombian rider on Team Movista is called Diego pescador. Really good climber, 60 kilos, pure climber and he was in the front and I mean I think he got second. Which race was Scaroni? Scaroni won and Diego Pescador was second and Tiberi was third. I mean to come in like this in your first races in the. In the pros, it's quite something, you know.

A (30:56)

Yeah.

B (30:56)

And I've seen him active in a lot of other races. He did a few stages in mallorca also. So 21 years old, but definitely Diego Pescalor. Big climber.

A (31:09)

Yeah, I actually do remember. I remember watching this race it a couple weeks ago. Did not know who this guy was. That's. That is a big result to fly into the scene with another rider. I'm going to go with. He's not too old. He's 19. He's on another guy from decathlon, Auburn, Sparfell. He's a French rider. Another one of these ultra light. He's. He must be in 50 kilos. I. I picked Leo Leo over him. But he won the points classification at the Giro Next gen. Podiumed a couple stages, won the. The Isaray Tour. Do you know this race, Johan?

B (31:46)

The what?

A (31:47)

The. The Alp is a Ray Tour. It's a. Is there a lot of, you know, a lot of good riders in that race this year? One that didn't quite make the cut. But I think he's a very good rider.

B (31:59)

I'm just not holding tangent. I saw him win a professional race last year, So he must have been 18 last year and in France somewhere. I don't know if it was Tour de Limousin or Tour some. He went on stage there in one of those races. If you have his Palmeira in front of you. He won a race in France. There was a stage, a stage in one of those races.

A (32:29)

Was it Tour di Finistre finished?

B (32:32)

Could be.

A (32:33)

Could be, yeah. Because he beat older like Bastion truncheon.

B (32:38)

Yeah.

A (32:39)

He's 23.

B (32:40)

So yeah, it was a pro race.

A (32:41)

It was a pro. Yeah. That's got to be a pro race.

B (32:43)

Yeah, yeah.

A (32:45)

It's Tour of Alsace. Is that a U23 race or does it just younger riders tend to race it?

B (32:51)

I think so. It's not a program. I mean it's not a professional race.

A (32:55)

But because you want to stage.

B (32:58)

I'm gonna.

A (32:58)

The hardest stage there.

B (32:59)

Pro teams could probably participate. I don't know.

A (33:03)

Yeah, I didn't quite like I'm looking. We don't need to get into this, but yeah, I, I've been wondering that. Cause you will see an odd older rider there. So maybe it's not technically a U23 race, but do you have one more honorable mention?

B (33:20)

Honorable mentions, let me check. I mean.

A (33:25)

We have a huge list here, but.

B (33:27)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. One guy that I think, I mean, for example, Pablo Torres. Last year we mentioned him as being this huge talent. He is a huge talent. He did this incredible ride on Quality Finestre, broke the record. I'm gonna guess it's now probably Simon Yates who had the record. But I do remember he won that stage in Tour de la Veneer. He did four minutes faster in Chris Froome. But he had a bad crash. He had a really bad crash I think in Tour of Hungary. And I saw the crash and I spoke with his mom actually because.

A (34:10)

Pablo.

B (34:10)

Torres has a brother who now also went to the Gen Z. Jaime Torres. He's now also in Gen Z of uae and I saw them at a race here and I asked her about the crash and it was, it was really bad. He hurt his neck really bad and was out for months. Months. So he hasn't been able to show his potential. But that's. That guy has a. Is a big and really good climber.

A (34:36)

Yeah, I mean I, I was listening to last year's show today and the stats you're throwing out for him were super impressive. Yeah, I mean, yeah. To beat Chris Froome's time on that climb by four minutes when Chris Froome was going all out. Not easy to do. I'm looking at the Strava segment right now. Simon Yates is clocked at sub hour 59 minutes, 8 seconds. That's pretty hard to do climb that long. He's not on here. I wonder if they sometimes on these Strava segments, but I think exact right.

B (35:11)

Approach, they came from further down and yeah, I don't remember exactly. There was something different on the segment.

A (35:18)

Yeah, if you do anything different then you get bucketed into another segment. I could try to find it in a second but you know there's just like Markel Balaki on EF Education easypost. I assume that's Yoseiba Balaki's son.

B (35:33)

Turned pro when he was 18. Straight away to EF to the pro team.

A (35:38)

Well, and then I'm going to ask you about that in a Second and then just us writers. You last year at George through Artem Schmidt and Colby Simmons who I would still say both of those writers, writers to watch. Someone that I've been watching and I. He's only 20 years old technically would have been eligible for. This is AJ August. Andrew AJ August is his full name. He's on Ineos. Oddly, a lot of very good young US riders on Ineos. But I. He's someone that. I don't know if he was. He turned pro very early. I think he was 18 when he joined that team. And then you just get thrown, you know, you're thrown into the fire. Like you look at his, his calendar last year it's all big races like Tour of Norway Tour the Alps, Tour Switzerland, Volta Burgos Deutschland Tour Tour Britain and you know, not, I don't want to say struggled to find his footing, but that's. Those are big fast races to be in right away as a pro. But that is someone I'm watching with hope for. You know, he's only 20 years old. So he has this next pro season. He will be 20 for all of it. Yeah, I think he could, he's someone that could develop into a very, very, very good rider.

B (36:51)

He's a really good rider. Spencer. You know, I remember three, three or maybe four years ago. Three years ago probably he was 17, he won the, the cyclocross on the Koppenberg which is considered one of the hardest ones in Belgium and he was part of the USA cycling like cyclocross Academy. And then turns out like his first year which was 20, 24, he was 18 years old. We had a trip with, we do travel and we did Paris, Dubai with a group of American cyclotourists. And his parents asked me like he got called up last minute in his first year professional as an 18 year old to do Paris.

A (37:37)

Why did they do that?

B (37:40)

And so his parents were with me in the van the whole day and you know, he, they explained a bit about him. So very, I mean very nice people. And I think AJ finished the race because I waited with his dad in the Velo drum until he came in and they put him out of the time limit. So he, he finished out of the time limit. But. But yeah, I don't know. I mean I had expected a bit more but maybe don't know if something happened, if he had an illness or an injury or maybe took some time to adjust to the, you know, the different regime as a professional cyclist. Right. Let's not forget that these young kids of 18 years old. They have to come over, they have to straight away make it, you know, find their life here in Europe. They have to have a base. They have to be here five, six, seven months of the season. So it's not easy that, to adapt to that different lifestyle. Yeah.

A (38:45)

And to explain how steep this curve is. So fall 2023, he does a Green Mountain stage race. You know, that's like the type of race I would, I would have done. So he does Green Mountain, which is a, it's a hard like US race, but it's fourth place at that. It's, it's not a high level professional race. The spring of 2024. So mere months later he's doing UA tour and Perry Rube, you know, that's a big jump, really fast for someone that young. I, I, and I guess this takes me to my next point, my next question, Johan. Should riders be going pro this young? Like, does this serve them? I mean, I guess that's all A case by case basis would be the boring answer, but should some riders think about not going to the World Tour that young? Or is it, do the positives outweigh the negatives because you're inside the, you know, the apparatus of a very professionally run team? Maybe that's better than racing U23. I don't know.

B (39:39)

I don't know. I mean I, I think, I think the, the 18, 19 year olds that can turn pro and that is justified for them to turn pro, in my opinion, Spencer, you can count them of the fingers of one hand. You have to be a big talent and you know, to be able to. The thing is that the way the teams are set up now, there is this comfortable zone where you are part of the development team and they switch you now and then to the, to the professional races. But I think that, I mean if I would be it, I would have a voice and I don't have a voice, of course, but I would make the under 23 category at least mandatory one year. They need to be one year under 23 at least and even two. The thing is that now the young guys, they, they, you know, it's like if they're not getting picked up as a junior by somewhat of a affiliate team with a professional team, it's like they consider that they failed and that's that. I think that's a shame because there is a lot of talent that needs a bit more time to mature, a bit more time to develop. But it's so easy to lose your motivation if you see that there's three or four guys who are all of a sudden picked up and they get all the nice stuff and the bikes and the gear, and you still are with your club as a junior or even as an under 23 rider. But you know, there's no science that says that you cannot all of a sudden, at 19, 20, 21, you can keep making steps. And that brings me to my next point, is that yes, there is. There are talents, big talents, and they're 18, 19, and they have incredible performances. The question is, how much can they still improve? And it's not just on the physical part, but also mentally. And I think that's the biggest challenge right now is that you see these young talents, they are focused and everything is fine tuned and optimized. When they're 17, 18 years old that I ask myself, okay, what can they still do to get better? Because they have the best trainers, they have the best bikes. If you're on Red Bull, for example, or what is it called? Grenke or Sudal or Jack, which is Visma. Or as a junior, you already have the equipment of the pros, right? They ride the S works and the big time trial bikes and they have buses and they have all the stuff. And where can you still get better? And the big talents will keep improving, but I think that there's too much focus and optimization already so early that at some point, and you see it all the time, you know, I don't want to sound like a negative old grumpy guy, you know, but you see writers of 19, 20 years old that they all of a sudden say, okay, you know what? This is it, you know, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm sick of it. I'm doing everything you can think of and I am just a normal guy. And so we need to ask ourselves the questions. Are these 18, 19 year olds that we are mentioning, are they already completely specialized and focused and optimized with how much can they do more to improve a part of their physical development? Because you would think that normally, physically, when you're 18, 19, you still get stronger. When you're 20, 21, 22, you still should get stronger.

A (43:23)

Yeah, I believe, I mean, that's why you look for people like Isaac del Toro, who had, you know, looked at a time trial bike and said, what's that? I've never been on one of those. That should be a sign, like a flashing green flag of like, this guy has a lot of room to improve. Were you saying, I believe you might have told Me this, that someone on a, on one of the teams looks at training peak files and if you're an 18 year old who trains more than 15 hours a week, they don't want to sign you. Is that correct?

B (43:49)

That was the case. That's true. That was the case until two, three, four years ago.

A (43:54)

Okay.

B (43:55)

But now they can't maintain that criteria anymore because the, the thing is that if Nowadays you train 12 to 14 hours as a junior, you're probably not going to be that good because you're competing against guys who train 20 hours.

A (44:11)

Yeah, yeah. That part of me want. So I mean, the other side of this argument is someone like Quinn Simmons. He wins junior championships in 2019. I always. And then he went, he went pro, he went to trek.

B (44:25)

That's an except. That's one of those exceptions. Yeah, go ahead.

A (44:28)

And I always thought, you know, I don't hate that because Quinn Simmons go. Why does Quinn Simmons need to go live in a leaky basement in France and make $15,000 a year on a U23 team? Just. He's not gonna, he's not going to benefit from that. If anything, it could hurt him because Quinn Simmons Racing U23 is going to instill bad habits in him because he's going to be so much better than everybody else. But this is the big debate in the US for basketball. You, I believe you have to go spend a year in college, no matter how good you are. Players used to go straight to the NBA. The NBA team said, wow, this is kind of hard. We got guys coming in who don't know anything about life and now they're on our team. So actually the teams made a rule that you have to spend a year in college so everything gets sorted out there. But as you say, there's so few people, I believe that that should go from junior amateur to the top level. That the. Yeah, it makes me wonder if the, the masses are best served by this. And, but here's. Here's another question I have. How much are these riders getting paid? Probably a lot of money. Everybody we mentioned right now, like, what type of contract would they be on with this, with these teams?

B (45:37)

I don't know. I don't know. But yeah, I mean straight away they, they make, they make good money. Not, not big money, but. But good money.

A (45:46)

Probably hundreds of thousands of euros, right?

B (45:49)

Probably.

A (45:51)

And yeah, I mean, setting aside the weirdness of being 18, 19, 20 and making €400,000 a year, will there become more, you know, will the. Basically the arms race for these ultra talented Riders that can go from junior to pros get so hot that team start. Like, would, would the market then start to value. Well, writers who slowly develop in the U23. Like maybe look at a 23, 24 year old who's been passed over. You're going to get him for a lot less money than a hot 19 year old.

B (46:26)

Yeah, I mean, listen, I know, I know a writer. I mean, he's not even, he's, he's not even under 23 yet. He's junior and you know, he's already signed with a big team for, not for next year, but for the year after. For, for a million a year, you know.

A (46:45)

Insane. Yeah, that's it.

B (46:46)

But that's also the craziness. And this, this, this, this, as you say, this arms race amongst those teams, like, okay, we need to, we need to have this guy and you know, they're chasing these guys and at the end, you know, okay, I mean, what do you want to say? You know, I mean, this, if you're 17 or 16, because he was 16 when they offered him that money, I mean, you have to say yes. There's no way you can say no. You have to take it. Yeah.

A (47:13)

Yes, you absolutely take that. Can you imagine turning that down? You're like, no, I'm gonna go race for a couple, couple grand a month. 23 ranks. That's what I want.

B (47:23)

Oh, it's a problem for the parents also, you know, I mean, as the parents, I mean, how do you deal with that situation?

A (47:29)

Right? Can you imagine that if Christian was making a million euros a year next year.

B (47:36)

Sign it with a permanent marker.

A (47:38)

The problem is, the problem is Christian would probably be spending about a million euros a year. Like, if you have that much money coming in at that point, if there's.

B (47:48)

No, if there's no safety net around, you know, which you see a lot with in Europe with football players, for example. It's a, you cannot keep your, your head straight as a young teenager.

A (48:01)

Right.

B (48:01)

If you, if you're making those amounts.

A (48:03)

Of money, yes, it can cause a lot of problems. That's why, I mean, just a big leg up in life, I guess, is being from a stable household with parents that you have contact with, because it can help you a lot in those situations. But so let's say, wow, arms race to sign these riders. You're looking at a team like, I was shocked. I, I talked about decathlon. They have a lot of very young, good riders, but a team that I didn't expect to is EF. I, I was looking at EF's roster, I was surprised how like George Steinhauser, Jorg Stein, I, I perceive him to be old. He's only 24. And then you have someone like Luke Lamperti, Mattis mickels, he's only 22. He's a very good young rider. Colby Simmons, Michael Leonard, Noah Hobbs, who we mentioned, Markel Balaki, and they have an 18 year old on here as well. So the team like that, like they've recruited very well. They have all these young riders. On Friday, they just put out a call for basically more money saying we need a title sponsor come in. Because I assume they, they're, they're thinking we're going to lose all these riders when their contracts are up. We don't have the money. If they develop into very good riders, we don't have the money to resign them. We're just basically developing riders for other teams, which is, I don't know if I've ever seen a team just put out a call for, hey, do you want to come partner with us? Because we need more money. Kind of an interesting decision. But am I also right in thinking it's going to be hard to wrap your head around? You were talking about you can switch, you can, you know, you can race for development team or the pro team in the same season.

B (49:39)

Yeah, you cannot do world. Two races you cannot do.

A (49:43)

Okay, okay. But that is a good chunk of the calendar you can do.

B (49:46)

Yeah, yeah.

A (49:48)

So does that mean since INEOS didn't have a true development team until just recently, like someone like AJ August couldn't, you know, couldn't do the smaller races and.

B (49:59)

Yeah, yeah, because until, I mean, now they start in 2026. Right. With their proper and own development team. But before they had a collaboration with a German team and I don't know if there it was possible to switch them over, but it's, you know, it's better to have your own structure and you know, for a team like ineos, you have to, you know, you have to have a development team. And I'm going to even go further. I mean, most of those teams, they're also going to have junior teams. You know, like UAE is building their own junior team for the future. So the Quickstep already has it, Red Bull has it, Visma has it. I mean, it's a different name, but it's the same team. So that's the best, you know, and then of course you can see how these riders develop and, you know, the background, you know, the personal situation of the riders, which is super important, I think, to know, you know, their families and their whole background. Right. Because it's not just the numbers and the power output. You need to know the mentality of a rider and how they can deal with stress situations, which is something that also sometimes is a bit neglected, I think, in modern cycling.

A (51:25)

Yeah. I guess it makes it, you know, if you were weighing up, if you're a writer, you're like, well, I'm gonna go to ineos. This is, let's say ineos two years ago, but I'm on the World Tour team, and there's no negotiation there versus you go to Red Bull. And they, you know, you can oscillate between the development team, even the junior team, development team, and the pro team, and it's all one integrated structure. That's a huge advantage.

B (51:48)

Yeah.

A (51:49)

For the riders to have.

B (51:51)

Yeah.

A (51:52)

I believe is our friend George. His son is on the.

B (51:57)

He's on junior team. The Granke team is the Red Bull team for juniors.

A (52:02)

Yeah. Okay. So then you could, in theory, spend your whole career. You could go junior U23, senior team. All within the Red Bull structure. Yeah, correct.

B (52:12)

Yeah.

A (52:13)

Yeah. Which. That, that is a massive advantage. I mean, think of if you don't have that and then you're stuck. You know, think of ineos they've been having. They had to sign Oscar onley for allegedly 6 million euros. If they have that full structure in place, maybe Onley's with them from the time he's a junior. So, yeah, you could probably save a lot of money that way. Even though you're spending a lot of money on these teams. Yeah, for sure. Well, you know, also, we should shout out. Speaking of George. And this is a good. This actually loops into what we're talking about. Brian Byron Munton on Modern Adventure, Pro Science, South African.

B (52:49)

Yeah. Yeah. What a signing. Yeah. Second. Second in the hardest stage and third, I think. No, no, not third in gc because they must have lost flat races in one of those flat stages with the wind. But, yeah, that was. That was quite the performance, man. That guy. Yeah, I, I know afterwards, I did some checking. He raced in Portugal in the past and. And he won a stage in the Tour of Portugal. And I think top three in GC probably.

A (53:24)

Yeah. Third in 20, 25, which, if you don't know, that's a really hard race.

B (53:28)

It's hard. It's.

A (53:29)

It's, It's.

B (53:30)

It's a hard race. It's a very hard.

A (53:32)

You could just have a pro team where you sign, you look at people who did well at Volta Portugal and just sign them and you're gonna have pretty good riders. But this guy's 27 years old. I frankly never before. And shows up. Yeah, gets second on the Queen stage, really hard stage.

B (53:47)

Spencer, especially the way he got that. It's not like he took advantage of circumstances. He was there, he was there on the, on the hardest climb and then he attacked himself on the, on the flat part afterwards. And yeah, really big performance.

A (54:04)

I mean, Jan Christian won the stage, won the overall, but he's only 11 seconds in front of. And this was an all out. The climb's brutal, all out plateau to the finish, but that shows you there are riders. Let's say you miss this, this entire wave we've just discussed, there's still a chance for you as a writer and then as a team. I mean there's a lot of talent clearly just floating around that, let's say 24 to 29 year old age that you're deemed too old for a lot of teams. But kudos to Modern Adventure for seeing that and signing them because that, that absolutely, yeah, yeah. That is a serious result. And the irony of everything we just discussed is like, like Paul says shots, like if, if he does not these people, you perceive them to be so good. As we said, the best 18 year old ever. If he doesn't get any better, well then, you know, let's say eighth place at Dofine. You're like, well, that's a nice writer, but that's, that's not a star. So you still have to just continue to improve. And that's the tricky thing with what you mentioned. Everyone's training at the top level.

B (55:11)

I think Spencer, I mean the level he has now is already with the best of the best. Right? I mean, third in European Championships, top 10 in the world, I think also was he not seven or eight?

A (55:24)

No, he got 13th. He fell off a little bit at the end of that. But the super impressive thing is he gets better between worlds and European Championships.

B (55:32)

Two of Lombardy, he was up there.

A (55:33)

Seventh, which is a big result for that level.

B (55:38)

Is already top, top, top. Right. He just needs to be a bit more consistent and a bit more endurance and. And yeah, he's going to be fine. Yeah, he's the real deal, man.

A (55:50)

Yeah, I mean he was so World championships was what, September 28th. European Championships is October 5th. He actually did look quite a bit better by, by just the week and a half in between those two races, which is impressive. Any anybody else we're missing before you. Before we take off.

B (56:11)

No, I think, I think we, you know, there's, there's other riders, but, you know, I think the main big talents. I think we've named them with those.

A (56:20)

Six riders who, who wins the young riders jersey at the Tour de France.

B (56:25)

This year, I think is, is Remco still qualifying?

A (56:29)

There's no way, right? I think you have to be. Hold on a second. They gotta change this. This.

B (56:36)

Yeah, they have to change it. Yeah, they have to change it.

A (56:39)

He's 20s, he's turning. He's 26, I think.

B (56:44)

Is he 26 already?

A (56:45)

Yeah, I think you have to be under 26.

B (56:46)

Okay. Ah, you know Del Toro?

A (56:50)

No. Yeah. I mean, if he gets there, I don't see. Yeah, that would seem to be the obvious one.

B (56:58)

Yeah.

A (56:58)

Del Toro. Yeah. Who is only he's not on this list. Was he. Was he on the list last year?

B (57:06)

No, because he was, he was on the list the year before.

A (57:08)

The year. He's only 20.

B (57:11)

Was already his full. His full year as a, as a pro.

A (57:16)

Yeah. I mean I'm gonna go ahead, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say, I think of all these writers we just discussed, Isaac Del Toro, he's going to be the best of this generation. The 20. Currently 18 to 22 year old.

B (57:29)

Yeah, I think, I think I agree with that.

A (57:32)

And I know he biffed the. The zero, but the way he came back from that and put together like an 18 or 19 win season, I don't think I've ever.

B (57:41)

Number two. Number two on the. On the world ranking.

A (57:44)

Yeah, that's super.

B (57:46)

Super.

A (57:46)

His first true.

B (57:48)

Yeah.

A (57:50)

I heard a story that he showed. He went to the. This was not that long ago. He went to the Colonago office, like the HQ to buy a time trial bike and they sold him a used one. This was like recently. So that shows you how much. It's the secret, right. That the key to all of this is finding these riders who have a lot of room left to grow. And I think that's.

B (58:13)

Yeah. For sure.

A (58:13)

Got to be hard for teams to figure out. But thanks, Johan. And we'll be back. We got some racing. Some what's. What racing do we have this week? Volta Catal. Not Catalonia.

B (58:22)

Valenciana.

A (58:23)

Valenciana. And so we will be back and.

B (58:25)

Then also soon is the UAE Tour.

A (58:27)

No, it is soon. The UAE Tour starts on these European dates. Always get me. It starts two days after Valentine's Day. So February 16th is when the UA Tour starts. Yeah, but we'll be talking Valenciana on Friday when we come back for our weekly show, Sam.