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- [00:01]
Spencer Martin
The move is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home in auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. Awkward time to ask this, but hey, did you download the trail map? Yeah. No, I don't need to. I don't understand. You're trusting your signal out here. I'm trusting T Mobile. They have the best network and if we end up in bumtots nowhere, well, we've got T satellite for backup.
- [00:35]
Johan Berniel
Whoa.
- [00:35]
Spencer Martin
I don't trust my carrier that much. We'll just use your phone as a flashlight.
- [00:41]
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- [01:20]
Johan Berniel
mobile.com Patrick Lefebvre is not surprised by the conflict situation that has arisen between Reich Remco Evenepoel and Florian Lipowitz at Red Bull Bora Hansgrohl in the Tour de France in his column in hidneusblatt, the former team director who worked with Evenepouel for years said it was only a matter of time and I quote sorry, but this was written in the stars. I worked with Remco for seven years, so take it from me, he is the alpha male among alpha males. It is me, myself and I with Remco shared leadership. Not in his mind. If that sounds harsh, show me a team leader, a real team leader who is not like that.
- [02:05]
Spencer Martin
Everybody, welcome back to the move. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Berniel. We're breaking down Stage eight of the Tour de France won by Tim Merlier over Benim Girmay and Olav Koi. Finally, some order. Finally we have order in the sprints. Johan, we have a discernment reason for 1, 2, 3. Tim earlier was just too fast for everybody else. We'll break that down. And we're also going to preview tomorrow's Stage nine, which has changed slightly due to extreme heat. Before we do that, Johan, I want to ask you about. We're going to go back to, you know, Remco having a poll. He's a constant content machine. He keeps us employed. Thank you so much, Remco, for doing so. Showing the reason, another reason probably why he should not have made those comments. Who's. Who's weighed in? None other than Patrick Lefevre, his former team manager. The boss. The former boss of the Sudal Quickset team. Johan, what has he said about this and what do you think about it?
- [02:57]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, so Patrick Lefevre has his weekly column in. I don't. I think it's at News Blood. Yeah, Newsblood.
- [03:04]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [03:04]
Johan Berniel
Belgian. Belgian newspaper. And Patrick is known to, you know, not weigh his words. You know, he says what he thinks. Patrick also is known to not be afraid. He doesn't shy away from any controversy. But I don't think this is controversy here. I read his comment this morning and I have it written down here. So they asked him about Remco's declarations after the stage of the. What's the stage again?
- [03:38]
Spencer Martin
The Wait, the stage of the tournament stage.
- [03:42]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, the tumor stage. Exactly. So I'm going to quote. So it says, Patrick Lefebvre is not surprised by the conflict situation that has arisen between Remco, Evenepoel and Florian Lipowitz at Red Bull, Bora Hansgrohe in the Tour de France. In his column in HID Newsblatt, the former team director who worked with Evenepouel for years, said it was only a matter of time. And I quote, sorry, but this was written in the stars. I worked with Remco for seven years, so take it from me, he is the alpha male among alpha males. It is me, myself and I, with Remco. Shared leadership. Not in his mind. If that sounds harsh, show me a team leader, a real team leader who is not like that. That's pretty telling and not surprising, I think. I mean, there's one thing here that I would defer from Patrick is that at least in this Tour de France, Remco has known for a very long time that he is not the only team leader. He hasn't earned that right at this team yet. And so I think in that context. But, you know, I mean, it's clear that Lefebvre knows what he's talking about. He has been managing Remco, or I would say trying to manage that. Remco, that's probably a better definition. So I think, yeah, I don't think there's anybody better placed than Patrick Lefebvre to make that observation. So we'll see what it brings. Now, it's going to depend on the performance and the legs are going to do the talking, like we say in cycling, and we'll see what. What happens. But I think it was an interesting observation from Lefebvre.
- [05:34]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, he would know. So, yeah, we have to defer to him on this. He's probably correct. He's right that a lot of leaders do not want to share leadership. The only quibble I would have with that is he knew that Florian Lipowitz got third at the Tour before he went to Red Bull. Like, that was known information that was out there. And it's not clear to me that he's good enough right now to be a soul leader. Like, if he. I mean, if he finishes on the podium, I guess, yeah, fine, Right. But if you're finishing fifth, sixth, seventh
- [06:03]
Johan Berniel
of the Tour, the only difference here, the only other thing I would take into account, but this is purely in the mind of Remco, is that he sees himself as the absolute leader of the team because of the incredible efforts that Red Bull has made to bring him to the team. True, they have reportedly paid 7 million euros to Quickstep to get him out of his contract. And then reportedly, his salary is close to 6 million. 5. 6 million. I'm going to take a wild guess. I have no information, but I'm going to say that Lipovic is probably around 2 million. So that obviously, in his mind is, okay, I'm the guy here of five plus million. I'm the leader, you know. And, you know, I would say, personality wise, he is probably the leader, but I think. I think he has to respect Lipowitz for his performances last year and especially this year in the stage races.
- [07:09]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, I mean, he got. When you finish on the podium at the Tour and then you look as fit as you did when you did that, you've got to get some sort of leeway, right? Like some freedom. But I mean, the. As I said yesterday, the mistake was not thinking this. Like, of course Remco is going to think he's the leader. Like, everybody knows that. You just can't say anything. Don't, don't say anything right now.
- [07:30]
Johan Berniel
I mean, the only thing Remco can do now is, you know, the next. What is the next big. Is it. Is the next big appointment the time trial, or is it first the mountain stage?
- [07:41]
Spencer Martin
No, there's two mountain stages before the time trial. One is in the Vosges, and then the next one is really freaking hard.
- [07:48]
Johan Berniel
It's the plateau. Oh, yeah, okay. Plateau de Salast. Yeah. The one that they did in the Dauphine.
- [07:54]
Spencer Martin
Yes.
- [07:55]
Johan Berniel
That's the same climb where del Toro won. So, Yeah, I mean, that. There we're gonna see who's the leader.
- [08:01]
Spencer Martin
I actually think Remco will do somewhat well on that climb because it's average of 9%. All he has to do is just climb his pace, and he's not gonna lose a ton of time. I think, actually, probably the thing where he was in most danger was stage six, because you can lose a lot of time because, you know, Pagatro didn't have that much time at the top, and then he blew the gap open later. And then assuming he'll do well in the time trial, probably stage 19 is the first stage that I think, ooh, that could be tough for remco. Actually.
- [08:30]
Johan Berniel
Stage 20, Plateau de Salazon. That's. That's.
- [08:35]
Spencer Martin
There's no hiding there.
- [08:36]
Johan Berniel
It's hard. This climb is harder than Albuez. It's harder than Albuquerque.
- [08:40]
Spencer Martin
Is it in the Jura or in the Alps?
- [08:44]
Johan Berniel
It's in the region.
- [08:49]
Spencer Martin
Okay. All right.
- [08:50]
Johan Berniel
So that's what the Dolphin is called, no?
- [08:52]
Spencer Martin
Yes. Yeah.
- [08:55]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [08:56]
Spencer Martin
I mean, stage 14 is not easy either. Like, it's gonna be.
- [09:01]
Johan Berniel
That's in the village, right? That's the. The Markstein. Yeah.
- [09:04]
Spencer Martin
Maybe those are good climbs for Rimco.
- [09:06]
Johan Berniel
But that's good for him. That's good for him. Yeah, that's good for him.
- [09:09]
Spencer Martin
But I mean, I'm glad we have this, because we have.
- [09:12]
Johan Berniel
Anyway, listen. I mean, it's. That's. It's right. What you say, Spencer. You know, Remco makes one comment, which I'm sure I'm not. I mean, I'm not sure he regrets. But he doesn't regret the comment because that's what he's thinking. But he obviously didn't expect all the backlash. And then, you know, we had this then. If you saw that, Spencer, there was. The day yesterday morning, there was, like, a staged video of both Remco and. Yeah. And Lipowitz in the bus, you know, like, pretending that everything had been talked about and was okay. And I'm sure that's Okay. I think, I personally think Lipovich is very difficult to have problems with this guy. It's just, he's just, you know, a very easygoing guy in my opinion, who just is a really good bike rider, you know. But that was not, I mean, didn't. It looked very, very unauthentic, I would say. Yeah.
- [10:05]
Spencer Martin
This reminded me of the Movistar Trident. Remember that?
- [10:10]
Johan Berniel
Valverde and Quintana and L L. Oh yeah.
- [10:15]
Spencer Martin
Oh man, those were the days.
- [10:17]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [10:18]
Spencer Martin
But yeah, they released some pretty unconvincing media about how everything was great inside that team. I also think people imagine in the team bus, in the Red Bull team bus, there's like fights going on. Rimco throwing stuff around, yelling at people. I. In my experience, not really how these guys behave.
- [10:34]
Johan Berniel
No, no, no. Absolutely not.
- [10:35]
Spencer Martin
Introverted. Yeah. And the tension is below, like under the. Yeah, yeah.
- [10:40]
Johan Berniel
I mean, and some another thing, we didn't speak about Spencer yet, but you know, I mean, Remco, what Remco must not forget, you know, okay. Obviously there is a tremendous amount of confidence in Remco and Project Remco, even a pool because they've done huge efforts and huge investments to get him there. So. And I don't think that has changed that much. Although I do, I do think that they had expected a better performances and up until the tour. But you know, I think they still will go all the way with Project Remco. But let's not forget that Red Bull Bora is a German team and Lipovitz is a German rider.
- [11:18]
Spencer Martin
I know.
- [11:19]
Johan Berniel
You know, and there's another thing, you know, there's another thing if, if Lipowitz would say, hey, you know what? Okay, you go, you guys go with Remco. I know another German team who might be really interested in me, you know, and they are, they are writing huge checks, little track.
- [11:37]
Spencer Martin
Yep.
- [11:38]
Johan Berniel
You know, so they just signed a
- [11:40]
Spencer Martin
guy they saw walking by.
- [11:42]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [11:44]
Spencer Martin
They. They're going to go out to group rides and just start throwing out seven figure contracts. But that is a good point because it is a nice fallback plan for Lipowitz.
- [11:53]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [11:53]
Spencer Martin
But again, I think you said this yesterday, if you're, if you're Red Bull, you, you don't need to pick a leader and you just want them both to be happy and to do well because you're not gonna, you're not gonna beat Picacho probably.
- [12:03]
Johan Berniel
Well, obviously they didn't pick the leader. That they didn't, they did not pick the leader. It's Remco himself. It's Remco who picked himself, you know, Anyways, you know, we're. We're already. Two days later, we're still talking about that one quote from Remco. So it's kind of. It's kind of good because we had two stages that, you know, you know, great, great outcome for the sprinters, but we don't have much to talk about. So it's great that we can start this podcast with that observation about Patrick Lefevre coming in and giving his opinion.
- [12:34]
Spencer Martin
And he never disappoints, you know, like, he's always.
- [12:37]
Johan Berniel
Well, you met him. You met him in Belgium. Spencer, you know my dessert. It's a guy. Did he steal your dessert?
- [12:45]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, I went to the bathroom.
- [12:46]
Johan Berniel
Did he steal your dessert?
- [12:50]
Spencer Martin
It was gone when I got back.
- [12:58]
Johan Berniel
But, you know, I mean, yeah, he's obviously not afraid to say it as he thinks it is. And I think he's, you know, he's in a position to do that. You know, first of all, he's retired now. He's gone through everything and he has the right to speak his mind, you know.
- [13:17]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. Thank you so much for doing so because we would have nothing else to talk about. On that note, 10 earlier wins. We should. I mean, it's not like nothing happened. Liam. Liam Slock from Lotto Inter Marche was up the road on these new, fast Orbea bikes. And then, you know, Orbea is happy because we're looking at these bikes every day as part of. Probably one of the reasons they're up there doing this. But they, you know, I think it came. It was far closer than anyone thought. They almost didn't catch them. And they reel amendment with like 1.4k to go. But it changes the sprint because there's team. Multiple teams coming to the front that wouldn't have come to the front. They're burning resources faster than they want. NSN XDs are at the front just like all, like, torching their lead out. It's really fast going into the final K. We have a turn. There's a group, a little group in front. Olaf Coy is positioned perfectly behind Phillips. And you think, well, Coy's gonna. He's gonna smoke everybody here. And there's a guy who's not even in that front group. Tim earlier sprints up to it to get in position and then blows by the leaders. Like, they're not sprinting. It looked like someone attacking a peloton. And then he wins the stage with Binyam Gurmail on his wheel. Actually looking pretty fast himself. And then Coy in third, Phillipson in fourth, Pavel Bittner in fifth. What did you think about the sprint, Johan?
- [14:35]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, the typical timber lear move. Spencer, you know when he, when he, when he comes from behind with, with much more, it was impressive I have to say. It's like you said, there was these, Vanderpool leading it out, Philipson, Koi and Girmai. And there was another guy there and then Philipson is in seventh position. He passes that guy, closes the gap. But as soon as he gets to the wheel of the fifth guy he goes, he straight away, you know his attack basically to close the gap was the beginning of a sprint and he's, he blows by when, when, when Philipson hasn't even gone over Vanderpool yet. So yeah, I mean he's the fastest guy, there's no discussion about that. He's the fastest sprinter. Doesn't mean that he's going to win every bunch sprint because bunch prints sometimes are chaotic. But already two out of three, two out of three sprints, bunch sprints. And on top of that, winning on the day of the Flanders community today, 11th of July is the Flanders holiday. And special mention is also on the day of my mother's 83rd birthday. Happy birthday.
- [15:56]
Spencer Martin
Happy birthday.
- [15:58]
Johan Berniel
Yeah. So yeah, great day for, for Malia, for Belgium, for sudok quickstep. I mean how nice must it feel for a team who came to the race with actually that's their main goal. And after eight stages which is basically dominated by UAE and you know, they win two stages already, it's like okay, sudok quickstep, their tour is already a success. Whatever comes now is bonus which is also what Maria said, you know, my, my Tour, my, my Tour de France is, you know, it's okay now, you know, and he's probably going to win another, another, another bunch print.
- [16:37]
Spencer Martin
And as George said in the show in the move, Jasper Stuyvin's huge on this. You know, it's really. They have a one man lead out but Stuyven puts him right. I rewatched last night's stage or I rewatched yesterday's stage last night and Stuyven just has him in the perfect spot the whole time. And then Merlier, you know, all he has to do is just sprint way faster than everybody else. Not that hard. Why doesn't everyone do that? But it's, it's pretty impressive where Stuyven's putting him. Also Lance pointed this out. 33 years old, you know, we're like, we're in this youth wave but he's basically having a breakout Tour de France at 33. You don't see that so often from the sprinter.
- [17:12]
Johan Berniel
It's. I think it's his fifth stageman in the Tour.
- [17:15]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, yeah.
- [17:16]
Johan Berniel
And he's won stages in every single Tour he has participated in.
- [17:20]
Spencer Martin
So 20. Interesting. 20, 21, 20, 25, 20, 26. So he basically had a. He had this funny part of his career where he just wasn't getting selected for Tour de Frances. He got him out of a little bit because he was on.
- [17:34]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [17:34]
Spencer Martin
Alpecin with Phillips, as Phillips and kind of grew into the sprinter he is. And then he was on Sudal for two years before they took him to the Tour, I guess because they had Remco.
- [17:45]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
- [17:47]
Spencer Martin
Interesting. Yeah. So it's. It's very cool to see him have this season at 33. Many congratulations to him earlier, do you think? What do we make of the green here? I said on the main show that you're still not worried about it. Pederson's got 228 points. Merlier now is 213. Benny and Gai 203. I think it's between these guys.
- [18:08]
Johan Berniel
Well, I mean, yeah, but I still think Peterson is the most complete rider. I was a bit worried today because he. I mean, I didn't see the result of the intermediate sprint. What happened there? There's three guys in front. And then what happened in the palace.
- [18:22]
Spencer Martin
It's kind of interesting actually because Jasper Phillips and one and looked amazing. I thought, well, he's back. Pederson got third. So it was Phillips and Cantor. Pederson. Pederson gets 10 points at the finish. Pedersen gets 14 points. So 24 point day. Yeah, okay. Which isn't great, but that's, you know, that's not enough.
- [18:42]
Johan Berniel
Still okay? Yeah, it's still okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Listen, the stages that come now, Spencer, are definitely much more favorable for Pedersen than for Girmay and Merlier and Philipson. Starting with tomorrow stage. We'll talk about it at the end of the show. But I think that's where Petersen. Because I still think Petersen will win the green jersey if he. Of course, if he finishes the Tour de France, a lot of things can happen. But I think that Pedersen's terrain is coming now where he has a huge advantage on the pure sprinters. You know, if you look at tomorrow's stage, for example, I think that's advantage Pedersen by far. If it was only for the intermediate sprint, that's already. I mean, it's early in the stage. And you know, it's, it's. There's three climbs and it's on a two kilometer uphill, the sprint. So, yeah, I think I still believe in Pedersen, high favorite for the green jersey.
- [19:45]
Spencer Martin
It also helps that Pedersen is. I think it was stage. The bridge on stage six. It's like that showed this guy is in really good shape. So.
- [19:53]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, and plus, plus, I do think, I mean, it all depends also, but you know, I mean, it doesn't depend because little trek, that's going to be their goal, you know, to get the green jersey. And Petersen has very strong team and teammates who can be very, very, very crucial in breakaways, whereas these other sprinters don't have that luxury to have teammates with them in those breakaways in these hard stages.
- [20:19]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, yep, it's true. And anything else on today's. Oh, I mean, we should talk about Liam Slock. He gets caught.
- [20:27]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [20:27]
Spencer Martin
And yeah, I looked him up during the stage. There was this big conversation in the studio. Is this guy British? What's going on? His name's Liam.
- [20:34]
Johan Berniel
He's Belgian.
- [20:35]
Spencer Martin
And I was like, it sounds so familiar. The name sounds familiar. And I was like, oh, he won a race recently in Switzerland. I totally forgotten it was the same guy. It was this viral moment. I don't think we talked about it on the show. But he's away solo for his first ever pro win and he posts up and crashes right when he takes his hands off the bars. Crashes over the finish line.
- [20:57]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, it was the Grand Prix gipping in, which is typically always just before the Tour of Switzerland. Traditionally. And there was, I mean, there you see that he's a really good quality rider because it was first, it was a 15 man group with a lot of really good riders. And then he gets away with three guys with Karapas and with Vlasov and Liam Schlock. And he drops them in the last 500 meters or he kind of sprints away from them because they had to. The three guys had to really ride very fast to stay away from the remainder of the first group. And then 20 meters before the finish, he puts his hands in the air, wind comes, takes him out and he crashes over the finish line. That's. That's quite a spectacular way to fin your first professional bike race. That was his first win ever.
- [21:51]
Spencer Martin
It's. The video is wild. Yeah, but you're right, actually, what's lost in that video is the fact that he dropped Carapaz and Flasov, which shows you he's really good.
- [22:03]
Johan Berniel
I, I know he's good, he's good. And today, I have to say today, today, Spencer, it looked like at some point, of course he was super tired. I mean, I don't know how long have they been out there? 150k or something.
- [22:16]
Spencer Martin
I think one.
- [22:17]
Johan Berniel
These other two guys. Yeah. And then at the end he was on his own, but man, it took. If it would have just been opposing and Sudal and nobody else came. He wins this stage because they were running out of legs. And then finally it took NSN and then Astana Fulgaz to basically bring him back and he made it with just a bit more than a kilometer to go. He. He got caught. So it would have been really incredible for him to win this against the charging peloton. But anyways, now everybody knows who Liam Schlock is.
- [22:51]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, for. For a better reason than before. And do you think Orbea cares about all this publicity? I would bet they do. Right?
- [23:00]
Johan Berniel
I mean, listen, it's two days in a row. I mean, two days in a row. Yeah, because Vestrofer was already two times in a breakaway. And you know, these guys are on the new Orbea aero bike which looks incredible. I mean they just launched it before the tour. Looks really good. You know, I think Orbea, Spanish brand, we're not sponsored by Orbea, but I think they did a really good job in getting up there with, you know, the trend of the new aero bikes. And it seems to be a really good bike. Of course you have to have strong riders on it to be able to showcase it, but that's a really good introduction to the, to the scenery. These two riders, Vestofer and Slok, some
- [23:43]
Spencer Martin
of these bikes are very fast. These arrow. I don't think there's one. I mean they probably would tell you. So I think there's really just like a level you reach with the aero bikes and then the refinement becomes like, well, how fast does your aero bike climb?
- [23:54]
Johan Berniel
Yes.
- [23:55]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, especially like the Ridley that Uno X is on. At least just from looks it looks like it's super fast, but man, I would not want to climb on that thing.
- [24:03]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, it looks heavy. It looks heavy, but they don't really care about that. You know, I don't know the Orbea bike, if it's heavy or not. It's, it's. You know, usually I think, Spencer, the, these, these new aero bikes, they're somewhere between 7.1, 7.2 kilos, which is, you know, 300 grams heavier than the limit. And I'm pretty sure that if they would really dial it in with special parts, they could bring it down to seven kilos.
- [24:33]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. And if you're, I mean, really outside the biggest mountain stages, you really don't care either. So I, I would probably take that weight penalty for a bike that fast. But let's take a quick break and then when we come back, we're going to talk about a few things, including Vergotcha versus Mercs and tomorrow's stage preview. So we'll be right back, everybody. This episode is brought to you by decagon. If your team is dealing with more support tickets, more channels and higher expectations from customers, you've probably thought about using AI for customer support. And you've probably seen how limited or time consuming most options are. That's why I'm excited to be telling you about Decagon. Decagon helps companies create personalized concierge style customer experiences with AI agents across chat, email, voice and text. They're available 24, 7, feel natural to talk to, and can resolve customer requests on their own so businesses can keep up with requests without losing their personal touch. Decagon plugs directly into your existing system so agents can get live quickly. And Decagon gives your team full visibility into why agents make decisions and what's happening across every conversation. Decagon helps power millions of conversations every day. So are you ready to transform your customer support? Go to Decagon AI slash themove to get a personalized demo and see what Decagon can do for your team. Check out decagon AI/themove. That's decagon AI/themove. The move is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash? Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home in auto policies. Try it@progressive.com Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Potential savings will vary. Not available in all states. Okay, Johan, Johan, we are back. Before we break down, you, you've dug out some interesting info about how Ted Epicatra stacks up against Eddie Merckx. But one thing we noticed this morning, Paul Sixas walking around in the mix zone with a mask on. What's going on with that?
- [26:30]
Johan Berniel
I was also surprised to see that. So you know, and Jonas has been doing it from since Barcelona already. So I don't know whether it's, you know, a precaution to not get, you know, viruses from other people because that's the thing about the Tour de France, right? You are in contact with A lot more people than in any other. In any other stage race. It's actually funny to see, you know, was it. Yeah. I was on the Tourmalet when Pogacha won. I don't know if you saw that, that video of French President Macron with bogachar doing it. 20 plus second handshake. Like he took, you know, he took the hand and he. And you saw Pogacciar like pulling it and the guy just kept the hand. I said, you know, some people don't shake hands, you know, in the Tour, which. Yeah, Pogacha doesn't seem to. Seem to care about. But yeah, I mean, these masks, obviously, I don't know if sex us. Is it because he's starting to be a little bit sick or if he wants to prevent getting sick? You know, I would say, Spencer, it's probably some little irritation, a little throat pain, I would say, you know, because if you start the Tour and you, you just don't care or you, you know, and then all of a sudden you start to wear a mask, it's for a reason. It's for a reason. And you know, and typically, Spencer, it does happen in all the time, you know, in a big stage race, three weeks, after one week, eight days, you start to have little, you know, cold, little throat pain in the throat. So I think that's, that's probably what's going on. He's not the only one. There's many, many riders. And it's, you know, it's. Because it's such a hard event and you're, you know, the heat, you're depleted, you don't sleep as usual.
- [28:31]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, I mean, that's like a big, A big part of it because your sleep is no good. And then you're more likely to get sick. Even if you haven't eight Sleep, it still might feel hot.
- [28:41]
Johan Berniel
I saw. Actually, you know what I saw? I saw a screenshot of one of the UAE writers. So they're all, all of UAE is on eight Sleep, the whole team. And he published the, The Times, how long they slept and the temperature of their bed.
- [29:02]
Spencer Martin
Interesting.
- [29:03]
Johan Berniel
Yeah. And I'm pretty sure there's a bunch of other data available. I'm, you know, do they, do they ship to Europe? I mean, they have to, because uae. I, I'm gonna have to talk to eight Sleep. I want one of those.
- [29:16]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, we, we might have to speak to eight Sleep about this. It. I gotta say, you know. Cause we do a lot of advertisements for the show and it's like the one where I'M like, wait a second. What? You can cool your bed without air conditioning. That's pretty interesting.
- [29:29]
Johan Berniel
Yeah. I'm in Spain, Spencer. I'm the ideal ambassador.
- [29:34]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, exactly. I mean, actually I think someone in London would be the ideal ambassador because they have no air conditioning and they need a cool bed. But it's got it actually it's really got to help in some of these hotel rooms that are not so comfortable sometimes. I would imagine there's a reason they hulk these things around.
- [29:52]
Johan Berniel
But yeah, I mean, you know, I mean nowadays they for sure they all that, all these teams, they have portable AC devices that they put in the rooms because there are many, many, many hotels that don't have ac. Many, yes. Especially in this part where they're going now.
- [30:11]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, yeah. It seems to be illegal in the massive central for some reason, which is like odd because it's the hot. It's always so hot there. But moving on, you did some. So George the other day, this is like two days ago. I'm just going to throw George under the bus here. He said, well, Pagacha is doing things that we've never even seen from Eddie Merckx. We've never seen this before. But you went back through and looked at the numbers and how what Pagacha is doing compares to Merckx. Do you want to share some of that?
- [30:38]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, I mean I did some research yesterday because I do remember I had to look it up, but that Eddie Merckx's first Tour was spectacular. He was 23 years old then. 1996 and again, Spencer, I think first of all we have to up the top. We have to say we can't compare different eras. Completely different. Right. But domination wise, Eddy Merckx was incredible and we stay okay. Pogacha greatest of all time already. I would say what he does is incredible and he's probably going to be the greatest of all times. Especially if you compare the competition now to back then. But Eddy Merckx's first Tour de France, listen to this. 1996. So he won seven stages. He won the overall with with almost 18 minutes on the second rider. And he won also the green jersey, the mountains jersey, the, the team's classification. And he didn't win the white jersey because there wasn't one, but he won that classification. So all the classifications in the Tour, seven stages and almost 18 minutes on the second rider. And that same season, he started the season with, he won Paris, Nice, plus a number of stages. He won Milan, San Remo, he won Tour of Flanders. He Was also second in Paris. He won Lies, Baston, Liege. That's all the same thing that Pogachar has done, except Parinis. So that was probably one of the seasons where Eddie Merx was the most dominant so early on in his career. So Pogacha is up there, right? He's up there. But now he just needs to. Yeah, I mean, I, I think it's the right comparison, but this is to show how dominant Eddie Merckx was also. I mean, winning with Pogacci is not going to win with 18 minutes and he's not going to win all the classifications.
- [32:37]
Spencer Martin
No. And actually when Picacho was 23, I don't even think he won the Tour de France.
- [32:42]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, he had, he had won it already.
- [32:44]
Spencer Martin
Well, he had won it, but that age 23 season Mercs, he had won it.
- [32:48]
Johan Berniel
He already had won it twice.
- [32:50]
Spencer Martin
Twice, Yeah. I mean, you do forget how good Merckx is. That's pretty crazy. 18 minute gap on second place. Yeah.
- [32:58]
Johan Berniel
And then almost all the other Tours I checked, he won it five times. So he wanted 96, 97. So 69, 70, 71, 72 and 77. No, no, no, no. 69, 70, 71, 72and 74.
- [33:15]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [33:16]
Johan Berniel
And then also he won five Giros and won Vuelta. But he almost. I mean, that particular year he won with 18 minutes, but all the other years he won with close to 10 minutes on the second rider.
- [33:29]
Spencer Martin
Can you imagine how much people would bitch and moan about that if that was happening now?
- [33:33]
Johan Berniel
I mean, he was. I mean, people hated him in France.
- [33:37]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, I can imagine. The lap articles now. Wins one mountain stage never. Like, the article on cycling news was like, why is he winning so much? Well, he's got to win a mountain stage to win the Tour, probably. Yeah. I actually think the best thing. That is crazy. Those that we just want to acknowledge, those stats are wild. The thing that I think could help Pagacha here is Del Toro, because I think you could see him, I think you might see him shift some of his energy from like, he's not going to be stacking up a 10 minute win. Be like, how do I get my teammate onto the podium or in second place? And I think that can soften the image quite a bit, which could be needed, especially if he's winning a fifth Tour and he's beating a French writer that might not play so well in the media.
- [34:22]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, I, I think Pugach has the, the likable factor. You know, he's, he's liked very, he's very Likable. He's very, very friendly, you know, does all the right things. He's smiling, he's, you know, very pleasant. It's very difficult to not like him. And I think that actually most of the writers in the Peloton really like Bogachar as a person.
- [34:49]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. Yeah. Like in awe of him. Because it is crazy what he's doing.
- [34:53]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [34:53]
Spencer Martin
I mean, he's a freak in that way that he's so good and so like so well skilled with social stuff. Because you notice that when he comes into his interview, he always says the right thing. He's like, oh, I saw Torsten. Train crashed. I hope he's okay.
- [35:07]
Johan Berniel
Yeah.
- [35:07]
Spencer Martin
You know, like that. Like it takes some awareness to behave.
- [35:10]
Johan Berniel
I think, Spencer, that's, that's, that's actually, I think the difference this year compared to last year, at least in this part here of the Tour, is that Pugachar is very different before and after the stage with the media, you can see, you know, it's boring, it's annoying. You know, I mean, he just have to deal with it and you know, it's always the same stupid questions. You know, what are you going to say? What are you going to say? But he keeps his posture and you know, last year it became very obvious. And then afterwards, of course, we found out that he was carrying a lingering injury on his knee. But that's a big difference compared to last year. I think his energy before and after the stage compared to last year. It looked last year like he. He didn't want to be there.
- [35:59]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, you definitely got the feeling that he did not want to be there. Yeah, it was, it was a little obvious, but I think that's. I mean, I. I'm excited to see how this plays out. I think he, he is very good. I think he has to just imagine like he's an ambassador. Like he's not even really a racer at this point. He's going to win by a large margin. He's just got to stay positive, check in on the guys. Oh, wow. Timber. Winning. So great to see. Like he almost change his role to be a cheerleader for everybody else in the race. It's so hot out here. I'm so proud of everybody for riding so hard. Yeah. But Johan, Stage nine, speaking of, the heat has been reduced. We talked about it on the move, but it's been shortened since then. It was a 85 km.
- [36:44]
Johan Berniel
Goes from 185 to 155.
- [36:47]
Spencer Martin
155. But keeps almost all of the vert. I Believe.
- [36:51]
Johan Berniel
Yeah. And yeah, I think the first loop of 24k that they do, they do not do it's because of the extreme heat. So obviously I think it's great for the riders. You know what would also be great for the rider? Spencer? Of course I understand there is sleep. Yeah. But starting two or three hours earlier.
- [37:16]
Spencer Martin
Well, it's funny you mentioned. I was wondering about that. Why, why don't they explore that?
- [37:21]
Johan Berniel
Well, I mean obviously the TV is the, you know.
- [37:25]
Spencer Martin
Yeah.
- [37:25]
Johan Berniel
They pay the bills and you know the time that everybody watches TV is you know, between 3 and 5pm in Europe. You know.
- [37:35]
Spencer Martin
True.
- [37:36]
Johan Berniel
If you do the, if you do these stages, if you start three hours earlier, it would be finishing at lunchtime.
- [37:44]
Spencer Martin
Yes. Yeah. It would really help the heat though.
- [37:48]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, no, it would be a big difference.
- [37:51]
Spencer Martin
I don't, I. This is not a topic for today but I don't know what they're going to do about the Vuelta. Takes place like all in southern Spain.
- [37:58]
Johan Berniel
Yeah. That's going to finish finishes in Granada.
- [38:02]
Spencer Martin
Good luck with that.
- [38:04]
Johan Berniel
I know one person who lives in Spain who's not gonna go watch the Vuelta.
- [38:09]
Spencer Martin
Is it that yourself or Bobby?
- [38:11]
Johan Berniel
I'm gonna, I'm gonna watch. I'm gonna watch it from my couch with ac.
- [38:16]
Spencer Martin
That's a good call. So I see on Vellavior we still have 3,000 meters of climbing. So that's quite a bit over 155 kilometers. This is borderline a better stage than we had before. Just from an entertainment perspective. A lot of climbing and a lot of non categorized but still difficult climbing in the first 50k including a sprint point which is in the middle of a 2.6k long 5% climb. And then you have four categorized climbs. Just tough racing through the Massey Central. This cannot be pleasant. And then a descent down to an uphill sprint at the end. I assume you think this is breakaway and who do you think is going to win this?
- [38:55]
Johan Berniel
I think breakaway for sure. There's no team. I mean unless there's only one team who can decide it's not going to be a breakaway, it's uae. But I don't, I don't expect that they would try to control this Makes no sense. So it has to be breakaway. It's gonna have to be strong riders. I mean from now on Spencer, we get into the, you know the time in a grand tour that we're gonna constantly see the same riders in breakaways. Tomorrow stage nine. So a lot of dead bodies already. Within a week it's even gonna be worse. But already, the vast majority is super tired already because of the racing and especially because of the heat. Has to be a strong rider, man. I mean, difficult to pick somebody. First of all, I think I'm almost sure that Pedersen is going to be in the breakaway with some teammates to take that intermediate sprint, which is hard. It's an uphill. It's on an uphill. I think that's the main goal for Pedersen. To take those 25 points, and then eventually, if he's in the break and he can stay in the break, he's probably going to try to stay in there, win the stage. I don't know, 3,000 meters. He can do it. He could do it, but it's also going to be difficult for him. They're going to be other strong riders in there. I'm thinking more of a writer. Like, I mean, for example, Jonas Abrahamson could be a guy who could win this. Richard Carapaz, who's already now lost a lot of time, and then one of the unknown writers for the moment, but who I think has been hiding a bit would be Ben Healy. I'm. I'm not sure if he's in great shape. We haven't seen much from him the. All season. Right?
- [40:58]
Spencer Martin
No, no, he's not Looked great.
- [41:01]
Johan Berniel
Yeah. I'm gonna go for Carapas.
- [41:06]
Spencer Martin
Okay. I like that. I could see that happening. It is a great Carapace stage. Pederson, the odds are. So if you want to bet on this, we have a partnership with next bets, so go to nxtbets.com BET outcomes. It will show you all the odds where you can bet how to bet, how to sign up. They do not have the odds up because I think this course change has changed everything. But if I go to Kalshee, I can see that Pedersen is a plus three. He's plus 380 to win the stage or the equivalent of that on Kalshee. And he's the favorite. The only thing is, yeah, I could. I could definitely think he's going to get the intermediate sprint, but I think he's going to have to give a lot to do that. And I don't know if he could win on this course against someone like Carapaz. What do you think about, like, Egan Bernal? Is that too crazy of a pick?
- [41:58]
Johan Berniel
The odds are up on Unibet. Patterson is the big favorite, at least plus 300. Matthew Vanderpool, second favorite, plus eight.
- [42:07]
Spencer Martin
I don't. I don't think that I. I think
- [42:10]
Johan Berniel
Matthew Vanderpool is not the best. Matthew Vanderpool in this tour. Then another rider who I personally quite like to win the stage is Matthias Vachek.
- [42:22]
Spencer Martin
Interesting. What's he at?
- [42:23]
Johan Berniel
Yeah, plus 1400. Quinn Simmons is also plus 14. So in the first four favorites, there's three little track riders.
- [42:30]
Spencer Martin
Yeah. Yeah. Well, one of those guys would be a good. Probably.
- [42:36]
Johan Berniel
I'm gonna pick Vac instead of Garapas Vachek.
- [42:40]
Spencer Martin
Okay. Then I'm gonna go for Quinn Simmons.
- [42:43]
Johan Berniel
Okay.
- [42:44]
Spencer Martin
What? Vodrek's plus 1400. And then what?
- [42:46]
Johan Berniel
Simmons at same plus 14.
- [42:48]
Spencer Martin
Okay. I'm going Quinn Simmons. You go about. Check and. And then Pedersen will win, of course. No, I think one of. I think Pedersen will get the points, and then I think it is probably a good chance that he'll be up there with those guys, and they might be better suited to win, and they might not. Not have the luxury they had last time where they could stay with Pedersen and pace back. It might be too hard to do that. And they. One of them might have to follow an attack from a guy like Carapaz, who's not going to sit around and go to the line with Pederson, you know.
- [43:20]
Johan Berniel
Yeah. Yeah.
- [43:22]
Spencer Martin
Okay. All right. Feel pretty good about that. So I'm excited for the stage. I actually think it's going to be really good with. Especially with the shortening. Going to be super, super punchy aggressive. But.
- [43:31]
Johan Berniel
And it's going to be fast. It's. I think it stays like tomorrow. Spencer, now, that is shorter also, but still 3,000 meters on that terrain. Man, those roads, I think, is one of the hardest stages in the Tour because, you know, there's no. There's no groups formed straight away. You know, if you have a mountain stage, you know your place, you know, you know where your place is, and, you know, okay, this is my. This is my group. This is my pace, and I'm going to make it to the finish tomorrow. It's full gas all the time. The first 30, 40k is going to be a nightmare to get in the break. It's up and down and single file. It is so hard. Yeah, a lot of riders are not looking forward to the stage.
- [44:13]
Spencer Martin
There's a big divide between people who've raced the Tour and who haven't, because everyone that has raced it sees the stage and says, oh, my God. Hardest, hardest stage of the race. But the stats nerds, you don't look at this and think. You think, oh, God, nothing ever happens in the masses in trial. Like, look at this. Look at this little stage. But everyone that's Raced, it says, oh, wow, this is the hardest stage of the race right here. Which, yeah, it probably. It will add fatigue to the. To the everybody, which probably does help Pagachar because he's the strongest rider. So the more fatigued everybody is, the better it is for him because he's fatiguing at a slower rate than everybody. But before we go, we have Ventum trivia. If you want to answer these trivia questions, go to ventumracing.com the move to enter to win $5,000 toward a Ventum bike of your choice. You also can use the move, the code, the move 10 while you're there for 10% off anything on the site. You don't want to wait for that free Ventum that, let's be honest, you. You might not win. So maybe just buy the new bike right now, but. Johan, yesterday's question was Bordeaux is the second most visited city in Tour history behind only Paris. How many times has the Tour finished in Bordeaux? Do you know the answer to this question?
- [45:24]
Johan Berniel
I listened to the move. So is it. What is it? 82 times.
- [45:27]
Spencer Martin
82 times. Unclear to me if that includes the finish we just had today.
- [45:31]
Johan Berniel
Okay.
- [45:33]
Spencer Martin
And then this. This one written by Bradley Wiggins because we got an answer from Ventum, but we did not. Something went wrong and we didn't get a question. So I had a Bradley Wiggins reverse engineer a question. It's a good one. In 1990, Greg LeMond won his third tutor France. Which rider dropped him to win at Luz Ard again on stage 16. So if you want to answer that, go to venomracing.com themove to enter.
- [45:59]
Johan Berniel
I know the. I know. I know the answer.
- [46:01]
Spencer Martin
Yeah, I was there.
- [46:03]
Johan Berniel
You were there.
- [46:04]
Spencer Martin
You almost won the next day.
- [46:07]
Johan Berniel
You got second on the next date. Correct? Yeah. Tomorrow, when we do the phantom trivia and we get. We give the answer. I have a really, really nice story about this stage.
- [46:17]
Spencer Martin
Okay, well, anything else, Johan, before we take off?
- [46:21]
Johan Berniel
No, that's it.
- [46:22]
Spencer Martin
All right, well, thank you so much. And we'll be back tomorrow, and then we have a rest day after that. Pretty exciting. Insurance isn't one size fits all. That's why drivers have enjoyed Progressive's name your price tool for years. Now, with the name your price tool, you can tell them what you want to pay, and they'll show you options that fit your budget. So whether you're picking out your first policy or just looking for something that works better for you and your family, they make it easy to see your options. Visit progressive.com find a rate that works for you with the name your price tool Progressive Casualty Insurance Company Affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law Awkward time to ask this, but hey, did you download the trail map? Yeah. No, I don't need to. I don't understand. You're trusting your signal out here? I'm trusting T Mobile. They have the best network. And if we end up in bumtots nowhere, well, we've got T satellite back up.
- [47:17]
Johan Berniel
Whoa.
- [47:17]
Spencer Martin
I don't trust my carrier that much. We'll just use your phone as a flashlight.
- [47:23]
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