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- [00:00]
A
I could be brainwashed because I'm just coming out of the camp. I was just in the UAE camp bubble, so maybe I'm brainwashed. The sense I got is we have not, we have not seen the best Tade Pogacher that, like the rider we're going to see in 2026 is going to be better than the rider we saw in 2025. I'm going pagachar. Pagachar. Pagachar. Pugacha. He's. I think he's going to sweep the monuments. I think we're going to see something.
- [00:29]
B
You are.
- [00:30]
A
It's not impossible, though, which is wild.
- [00:33]
B
Yeah, it's true. It's. It is possible. It is definitely possible.
- [00:41]
A
Everybody, welcome back to the Move Plus. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Berniel. This is our last weekly episode of 2025. Sad, sad that it's ending, but. But I'm already excited for that 2026 cycling season, Johan. But in this episode, since we're a little light on the weekly news, I'm going to be going through 2026 predictions, getting Johan's predictions. I'm going to give predictions. This is for the winners of the Monuments Grand Tours World Championships. And then at the end of the year, at this show next year, Johan, we're going to go through and grade our predictions. So that should give people something to look forward through, forward to throughout the year. Then we'll talk a little bit about the cyclocross going on. Oscar Onley to ineos. And then, of course, the most important thing of the year, our Strava Mileage Kilometer Challenge. Who is ahead? Who is probably going to win that with only three days left in the year. But first, let's hear from our partners for today and then we'll get Johan's predictions for 2026. Everybody. This episode is brought to you by Huell. Every December, I tell myself, this is year I'm going to stay locked into my routine. And then suddenly, I'm traveling, I'm bouncing between family dinners and my nutrition plan completely falls apart. But this year, shockingly, Huell is the reason I'm solving this problem. That's Huell. H U E L this morning went. Went on a ride with some friends. Didn't have time for lunch. When I came back before some family obligations didn't matter because I had hu ready to drink shake. It's a complete meal in a bottle. 35 grams of protein, 7 grams of fiber, and 27 vitamins and minerals. No prep no mess, just grab it and go. It keeps me full when the alternative is either not eating or grabbing whatever random snack as close as or if I'm traveling the dreaded airport food hall. Stay away from that thing if you want to be healthy. He will Also has a new chocolate peanut butter flavor which is dangerously good and keeps me away from the chocolate peanut butter cups. You know I love those. And I've also been loving Huell's new canned daily drink, daily greens drink as well. 42 vitamins and nutrients, 4 grams of fiber, only 25 calories and no added sugar. In December, when my vegetable intake tends to fall off a cliff, this is key. I ran out, I left town. Someone drank all of them in the house. They liked them so much, came back, they were gone. But Huell sent me some new ones so I'm good to finish off the year. And Huell is now available nationwide at Target. Just check out the health and wellness aisle. Get hewell today with this exclusive offer for new customers of 15 off with code the move@huell.com the move that's h u e l.com themove and use code the move at checkout for 15 off everybody. This episode is brought to you by One Skin. If you're like me, your skin needs some extra care this time of year. Between colder weather and the holidays fast approaching, it can feel like non stop stress to your system. That's why I've continued to rely on One Skin. It's been invaluable to have a daily routine that delivers both powerful skincare and longevity benefits on just a few simple steps. At the core is their patented OS1 peptide. The first ingredient proven to target cells the root cause of wrinkles and loss of elasticity. And these results have now been validated in five different clinical studies. Known for their cult skincare favorites like OS one Body, OS one Face and OS one eye. One Skin stands out for their science first approach to skin aging. Delivering hydration barrier support and powerful longevity benefits in every product. And I gotta say, their dispensers are just, they're just fun to use. I'm using the OS one Face every morning and evening and I look forward to it. That it's just, it's a little piece of design that makes your day better. And so for a limited time try one skin for 15 off using code the move at OneSkin Co the move that's O N e skin Co themove after you purchase they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support the show by telling Them we sent you again. Oneskin co themove. All right, Johan, before we start, you're back in. You're back in the Costa Blanca. Is that. Is that correct? To finish off the year.
- [04:30]
B
I just arrived. So apologies for the quality image and sound. Because I have to do this from my phone. The wi fi where I'm at is not great. So apologies on beforehand. Yeah, we're back here for a week in Venice, close to Calpe. So we'll see, we'll see if there's still. That's obviously not. The teams are not here anymore now, you know, they're all gone home for the holidays. But there's still some individual riders and little groups of three, four professionals who stay here over the holidays. So, yeah, apparently it's going to be a lot better weather than when we were there, Spencer.
- [05:12]
A
It's gotta be. I'm traveling around the world bringing rain with me wherever I go. So who.
- [05:18]
B
But you're also in a very exotic place.
- [05:21]
A
No, an undisclosed exotic place. Yeah, I'm in. I'm in Maui for the New Year's. I used to live here. I'm visiting friends, family. This is not just some George H and cappy super swish retreat that I'm on. I'm on family business here. But it's a good place to ride. Probably not as good as the Costa Blanca. I do find myself missing the Costa Blanca even though our audio is cursed from that area for some reason, every bit of audio I did from there sounded terrible. And then now we are doing yours without a microphone today. Audio aside, I do find myself missing that. Hawaii is great. Like Maui's beautiful. Pretty good roads, pretty good riding, a lot of elevation, almost like Canary Islands type climbing you could do. But there's something about, I mean, especially the price. Like now with the team's gone, you could go, you could go to Altea, that town. And like I've been finding myself looking at hotels, looking at group rates, seeing if I can take some friends out there for a trip. It is incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll invite you. Don't worry, you're coming too. But yeah, just the price you can get in the writing and how empty it is, that's what blew me away is the off season feel, even though the weather is still quite nice, is magical.
- [06:36]
B
Yeah, it is. Well, you know, now for New Year's, New Year's, it's, you know, it's, it's quite busy, you know, maybe not, not so many cyclists but a lot of people here. I actually just went To a restaurant. I mean, they. Luckily, I know the owner and he made a little. Little place for two people for my son and I. It was full. Full, full. I know. You know, it's a Monday, it's a little village, but the restaurant was full, so there's.
- [07:02]
A
There's a lot of people. Was it in Benicia? Benisa.
- [07:05]
B
Benisa. Benisa, yeah.
- [07:08]
A
Great town. Love that town. So, Johan, let's. I don't think there's any cycling news, but there. I know Oscar only went to ineos, but I want to save that for later in the episode. Any other cycling news you want to get out there before we get into this prediction challenge?
- [07:22]
B
Not really. You know, there's not much going on. I mean, obviously there's a lot of cyclocross, which is super interesting. I mean, interesting. It's always the same rider who wins both men.
- [07:33]
A
Well, yesterday was pretty good. When Vanderpoel wasn't racing, I thought that was the best race of the year.
- [07:37]
B
It was a really good race. Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, also Lucinda Brandt wins all the races and he, you know, World Cups, Super Prestige. She wins. I think she. She didn't win two of the races that she has started. So I think she has 13 or 14 wins now this season, which is incredible.
- [07:56]
A
Yeah, it's. I mean, just on that really quick. So Vanderpoel's raced six races, six wins. No one. No one can touch the guy. He's making the world's best cross riders look silly. Wild Van art has raced five times. These are his results. 7th, 2nd, 2nd, 6th, 10th. Obviously not as good. Beaten by Tibor Del Garasso. And another one, another one of the races. It was at the Zolder Super Prestige that I thought was another fantastic race. I was shocked that he didn't win that against Del Grasso. But as we talked about in our last show, or maybe two shows ago, Del Grasso is a huge talent. Coming up, 22 years old, great on the road, great on cross. In cross. What. What do we make of this? Of them being so different in form, in cyclocross. Is there anything to read into this or. No?
- [08:41]
B
Well, I mean, first. First of all, Von Aert. I mean, if you look, for example, today he had two flat tires, you know, first he was with. I don't know if you saw the race today, but Van der Poel and Von Aert were escaped. Then Von Aert had a flat, you know, got back to the. He was back in the group behind. Then he had another flat. So but anyways, it's clear that Vanderpool is miles ahead of Walt Van Art and above everybody else, you know, it would take an accident or an illness for him to not become for the eighth time world champion, which is unbelievable. I mean, think about it. Yeah, eight times world champion now right now he's seven. So he's tied with Erik de Vlaeming, Roger De Vlaemig's brother. And so if he wins all these races he's doing now is actually basically a warm up towards the world championships, which is his big goal. And then apparently, I mean, I don't know if it's confirmed, but he hinted to, you know, if he wins the worlds that that's it for cyclocross for him. You know, he's gonna, he's gonna pull the plug on cyclocross, which there's nothing else to win for him. You know, that's, that's it. Should he do. He also wants to really. I mean, obviously he loves cyclocross. He started as a cyclocross rider. He, he, before he was a road racer, he was a cyclocross rider. And so was Walt Van Aert, by the way. But I think he also wants to try, you know, a complete preparation, a winter without cyclocross and focusing exclusively on preparing for the classics. I think it makes sense, man. I think it makes sense. But in the meantime, the races that, I mean, I've seen all of them on tv, it's crazy. The first race he did was in Namur. That was the only one, the only race where it was suspense until the end.
- [10:36]
A
Yeah.
- [10:37]
B
Was able to follow him quite a few times and then finally he made a mistake and crashed Tibon. But other than that, listen, I mean, I cannot compare to anything better than V Poel in cyclocross. It is like his bike is on rails. It's, he has that much power that he just, you know, goes on rails through the sand, through the mud. I mean it's, it's, it's, it's unbelievable. The difference is, is astonishing.
- [11:07]
A
I mean I'm, I'm not a cross expert by any. I am a Cat 1 in cyclocross. I think that was an administrative error. I don't know how that happened, but he, my best guess is he's the best bike handler and also the strongest. So there's no weakness. Like he never seems to have a weak point. I, I don't know what his running is like, but he's such a good bike handler. It's almost like he's never running. He just un. Watching him ride these technical.
- [11:31]
B
Here's a little, a little detail. I saw, I saw a little detail. Yes. Was it, Wait, wait, yesterday he didn't race? No. In Havre. So Havre is, is usually, I mean, it's a big, it's the monument of the cyclocross races. Usually it's very hard, you know, a lot of mud now. It was frozen. So they did some, some previews. Van der Poel and I mean, most, most of them decided, you know, okay, there's not going to be any running here. But van der Poel took it a notch up. You know, he was so certain that he was not going to run that he started with aero overshoes.
- [12:09]
A
That is crazy, you know. Yeah.
- [12:12]
B
But basically, if you put arrow overshoes, it's difficult to run because you don't have the.
- [12:17]
A
You're slipping around, you have no grip.
- [12:20]
B
I think that's the first man a cyclocross with arrow overshoes.
- [12:23]
A
That was something.
- [12:24]
B
Yeah, that was, that was a first.
- [12:26]
A
And I'm going to be going so fast in these straightaways, I need an arrow overshoe. Do you? I, I, this is something I was wondering as well. So they're doing, I mean, you see Van Art in these cross races. He looks like he's suffering, but you'd imagine that's good because he's doing efforts this time of year. Apparently that's a thing. Now we saw Pagachar. I estimated, by the way, his power on cold rats is 566 watts for 12 minutes. It will be lower than that because he was drafting and that calculations without draft. But that's hard. It's a hard little effort he did. So apparently this is what everyone's doing now. Hard efforts in December. Is this helping or hurting or not affecting their road season? If Vanderpoel doesn't do cross next year in preparation for road, is that better or worse? Is this actually helping them prepare?
- [13:12]
B
I mean, I think this helps, especially if you're, I mean, listen, these two riders are cyclocross specialists now. It seems to me like van der Poelbe remained the big specialist and wout by doing it less and less is technically losing a bit of his skills. I mean, I don't think he will contradict that.
- [13:32]
A
You see him in the technical sections hurting more than the others.
- [13:36]
B
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's still pretty impressive for me, you know, it's still quite amazing. But no, I mean, if you look, you know, three, four, Years ago, it was super, super tight, you know, between van der Poel and Vallart and we never knew who was going to win. One times one, you know, But I think since, since van der Poel won that sprint in the World Championships against Vanart in. Where was it in. It was in Holland. It was in the Netherlands. I don't remember the place. Since then it's been, you know, it's been a different story. He has won, I think all of the confrontations against WOT and, And Walt. I think Walt gives less and less priority also. He keeps doing it because he likes it and, you know, he has a lot of fans. I mean, Spencer, it's. It's pretty crazy if you go to a cyclocross, especially in Belgium, and if, even if there's Vanart and van der Poel, it is Vanart. I mean, all the people is Vanart. Vote, vote, vote. Woe. Woe. It's crazy how popular he is. So I think he does it a bit for the fans also. But I think both of them are going to gradually. I mean, this. And they're also not at the beginning of their careers. Right. So I think it's logical. They started as cyclocross riders. They did a lot of cyclocross and it's gradually getting less and less and I think both of them are going to gradually fade out of the cyclocross team.
- [15:05]
A
I mean, if you think of someone like Mads Pedersen, he's not doing cross. He's preparing for the classics right now. And I, I mean, it remains to be seen if that becomes a problem. I think it potentially could be. He's very good. Yeah. And as you say, Vanderpoel, what is left to do? What are we doing here, man? He wins every race. He's going to win the world championships. That certain point that's not exciting. And there's maybe there's golf simulators to, to be in. In this time of year instead of in cold Belgian fields. I fields. I do agree with you on the fans. You can tell that through tv that that's important for W to be there.
- [15:37]
B
Yeah.
- [15:38]
A
Maybe he never stops doing it, but yeah, it's not the beginning of their careers they need to get serious about.
- [15:44]
B
They're both at a point in their careers that they. Their contracts on the, with the team and on the road are so big.
- [15:49]
A
Yeah.
- [15:50]
B
That whatever they make, you know, I mean, these, these start price. These price, these start fees for the cyclocross races, it's. It's not making Any difference in their, you know, on their bank account, you know, I mean, so, so yeah, I, I think it's, it's a natural, natural process that. And then, yeah, I mean, then we're going to see cyclocross races that are really, you know, suspense until the end, you know, because when, when those two guys are not there, especially when Von Art, when, when Van der Pool is not there, we never know who's going to win.
- [16:23]
A
You also get the feeling Ben Art is not putting his whole heart and not his heart, but this is, this is off season for him.
- [16:30]
B
I don't know.
- [16:30]
A
Vanderpoel seems to be the same. It doesn't matter. But Vanar, I, I, you look at him and I just looking at him and knowing how good he is on, you know, when he's fit, you're like, oh, he's, this is offseason for him. He is, he is trying to get in shape. And you can see it. Just shout out there to Tebow knees. 23, five wins so far this year. And then Tebow del Grasso, 22, beat Van Art. Those. If you're wondering who's going to beat these guys in the Classics someday, I think those two guys are two guys to look.
- [16:58]
B
Oh, those two guys are, I mean, the real deal. Also on the road. Yeah, for sure.
- [17:02]
A
Yeah, they are. Del Grasso. I mean, because you hear about these writers and I'm gonna ask a question about this later in the episode and you're like, I don't know, are they really ever going to be as good as people say? Del Grasso, he almost feels like he's getting better every day. He looks better every time he races.
- [17:17]
B
Did you see that? I mean, that's, you know, I, there's, there's been on social media, there's been, you know, layover, so comparisons between Walt sprinting against. Sprinting against Vanderpool in the Tour of Flanders, side by side. The Jumbo. The Jumbo, right then versus the, the Dutch champion Van der Poel. And now Van Aert versus Thibault er Grosso. It's the same sprint. It's identical. It's, you know, it's, it's like, I'm going to even say the style of sprinting of Del Grosso is almost identical to the one of Andre Pool. And two times, two times Van Aert. I mean, I'm not going to say it's a mistake, but he just waits a fraction of a second too long. And both of the times, both Van der Poel and Agrosso Get a tiny bit more speed at the beginning and he cannot make it up.
- [18:17]
A
Yeah, I mean, Van Art, for some reason, I mean, great bunch spinner. Obviously, one on the Champs Elysees almost seems to biff it a lot in these one on one sprints. I don't quite know what it is. Or maybe he needs to be sprinting off a higher speed than Del Grasso and Vanderpoel, who are two of the most explosive riders I've ever seen. While we're talking about Vanderpoel, did you notice this? Can you tell me if you can see this picture? Is Vanderpool's seat too high? Like, look at, look how he's on his tippy toes on his crossbar.
- [18:46]
B
Well, yeah, I mean, I mean, no, it's. No, his seat is not too high, but Van der Poel is a rider who is. I mean, he, he, in my opinion, he is a bit higher than the usual road rider. But I think that's not, that's not. I mean, that's a special, that's a special moment.
- [19:04]
A
It also. Yeah, you also could be rotating. So when you see an. I just held up an image of Anderpol in a cross race. You never know how their hips are rotated.
- [19:12]
B
Exactly.
- [19:12]
A
Yeah.
- [19:13]
B
Also. Also a tiny bit of the saddle because there's a little bump or something.
- [19:17]
A
Yeah.
- [19:17]
B
But I do agree that, you know, he's, he's a bit higher than the usual professional cyclist. But I'm pretty sure that, I mean, listen, Spencer, that guy, I mean, that power he has, that must be like, in my opinion, his position is studied, you know, like to the millimeter.
- [19:36]
A
Well, I only bring this up because you and I know another, like generationally great rider who also is pretty high on the saddle. And you're like, would these guys be even stronger if they just lowered their saddle a little bit?
- [19:48]
B
Who's the other guy?
- [19:50]
A
I don't, I don't want to call anybody out. Have you, have you ridden with anyone recently who's on their tippy toes on their road bike?
- [19:57]
B
Yeah, but that's. I mean, you're talking about Lance, his, his saddle. I think his saddle is higher now than when he was.
- [20:06]
A
Okay, so it's creep. There's been saddle creep since retirement.
- [20:09]
B
It's high. I already told him. I already told him that I thought his saddle was too high. But you know, when he was a pro, he listened. Now he doesn't listen anymore.
- [20:20]
A
I'm like, are these, Is this going around? Is this a problem with amazing riders or saddles are too High. They can even.
- [20:26]
B
But when, no, when he, when he, when he was, when he was a pro, his saddle was. It was on the high end, but it was not as high as it is now.
- [20:34]
A
Okay, that's good to know. Maybe I should. I was writing. Grade them this time next year, which I am excited about, but just my friend Jonathan Kaplan was asking me like predictions for 2026. I was thinking like, man, I hadn't really, I haven't really thought about it. But then I started to think about is kind of interesting. Obviously we're going to be wrong. And the, the thing I noticed when you try to do this is you try to like we asked a, a commentator, someone that commentates on TV and everything. They said, I'm like, wow, that's so cool. But they're basically painting a story with their predictions and then this is a problem you tend to do just as a society, as a, as people you like, write the story you want to hear versus what actually is going to happen. So I'm curious to see how this ends up being at the end. But we're going to go through monuments, Grand Tours, World Championships and green jersey at the Tour. So for the first monument of 2026, Milano San Remo, who do you think is going to win this race?
- [22:12]
B
Yeah, well, I mean when we make these predictions or we think what's going to happen? You know, I just assume that this is under normal circumstances. You. So we're going to get it wrong at some, you know, because, yeah, things.
- [22:24]
A
Someone's not going to show up to one of the races because something happens to them injured.
- [22:28]
B
But you know, Spencer, in my opinion, you know, if, if everything is normal and nothing crazy happens, nobody is falling out or is injured or sick, I'm, you know, rather than going through the one by one, this, in my opinion, there's two riders who will win five. All five monuments. It's, it's, it's, you know, it's. For me, it's, it's Matthew Vanderpoor who's going to win Milan San Remo again normally. Unless, unless today can drop him this time. On the. Let's say If Vanderpool is 100%, Pogacha is not dropping it on the podio. He might be a bit off, he might be 98% and then, then, then it's Pugachar. But I'm gonna say Van der Poel wins Milan San Remo, Pugacha wins Flanders, Vanderpool wins Ruby, which is a difficult one to predict because, you know, mechanicals and stuff like that. Yeah, right. Lombardi, Polachar. I mean, these two riders are winning all five monuments, in my opinion.
- [23:46]
A
I think what you said is probably correct.
- [23:50]
B
Which is the same as 2025, right?
- [23:53]
A
It is exactly the same. Yeah. Vanderpoel, San Ramo, Pagacha. Flanders. Vanderpoel, Roubaix. Pagacha. Pagacha. Liaison. Lombardia. Lombardia. I could be brainwashed because I'm just coming out of the camp. I was just in the UAE camp bubble, so maybe I'm brainwashed. The sense I got is we have not. We have not seen the best Tade Pagacha. That, like, the rider we're going to see in 2026 is going to be better than the rider we saw in 2025. I'm going, Pugachar. Pugachar. Pugachar. Pugachar. He's. I think he's going to sweep the monuments. I think we're going to see something. It's not impossible, though, which is wild.
- [24:34]
B
Yeah, it's true. It's. It is possible. It is definitely possible. I don't think anybody has ever done all five. No. In the same year. No.
- [24:44]
A
I mean, there's only a few riders that have won all five total.
- [24:47]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [24:50]
A
It would be. I mean, it would be un. Obviously unbelievable if you did a member.
- [24:54]
B
Of the Head who won. Who won all five, I believe, off the top of your head. I mean.
- [25:02]
A
I mean, I want to say Eddie Merckx.
- [25:04]
B
Eddie Merckx. I think. I'm pretty sure. Also. Rick Van Loy.
- [25:13]
A
I think that's right. Huh. Let's see. Oh, here. It's like right here.
- [25:25]
B
More. There's one more.
- [25:27]
A
Okay.
- [25:30]
B
Where's the other guy?
- [25:33]
A
You know who came really close is Shelbert.
- [25:36]
B
Well, he never won. He never won. Milosa Limo.
- [25:40]
A
Yeah, yeah. Was there just a list of every. Okay, so it's.
- [25:45]
B
I think it's another Belgian. I think that. Actually it's four Belgians. Who's the other guy?
- [25:50]
A
So Eddie Merckx, Roger De Vlaemick. I'm just looking at the list. Rick Van Loy. And then. Is there another one? I don't know if there is.
- [25:59]
B
Maybe not.
- [26:00]
A
Someone's screaming at us right now if there is. I don't think there is. I'm looking at. It's a table of how many times each rider has won each one. And I. I don't. I think it's just those three. I don't think there's anybody else. Wow.
- [26:21]
B
I had the impression There was another.
- [26:22]
A
One, but maybe because Gilbert missed one. Luson Bobay missed one.
- [26:28]
B
Yeah.
- [26:29]
A
Germaine. Derek. Derek.
- [26:32]
B
Oh, German director. Oh, wow. I ran to the sun.
- [26:35]
A
Really?
- [26:36]
B
Yeah.
- [26:36]
A
And then no one's even. There's not really anyone close after those guys.
- [26:42]
B
Wow. Yeah, well, so I think we're going to have somebody in the comments screaming at us for some reason if we missed it.
- [26:49]
A
We apologized to the, to the agita. We've called cost somewhat. It's like, should we ask Chat? GPT is never right about this.
- [27:00]
B
People write, oh, the answer.
- [27:02]
A
Well, while I look this up, here's a question. And the professional cyclist proposed this, this is not just a random Reddit person. To win San Rama, obviously that's going to be very hard for Picachar. Should he do nothing? And just as we were just about funky sprints, should he just go for the sprint? I mean, it's, if you run it enough times, like, he maybe could beat Vanderpoel if enough weird things happen.
- [27:27]
B
Well, if he does nothing, then I think there's also the possibility that a sprinter could make it over the Podgio or could come back. Yeah, I think, I think that's a good point. The team, his team needs to make it hard on the Cipresa to, you know, wear out the sprinters and then basically have it a Manu Amano against Vanderpool. Yeah, he could gamble, you know, I mean, you could try to get away on the Chipresta also. But then I think that the problem will be that this, you know, between the Chipresta and the Poggio, if Vanderpool is not there, they're coming back.
- [28:07]
A
Yeah. Yeah, I hadn't really thought about that. If he doesn't do anything, does Phillips and just win, Just wax him in the sprint. Well, Mads Pedersen, I mean, you could.
- [28:17]
B
Also say, well, if Pogaccia doesn't do anything, you know, his attack on the Podio will be that much stronger.
- [28:25]
A
Yeah, I mean, we, we saw Vincenzo Nibali win that way. I, I, I tend to, I, I think what we saw, though, if you watch that, called a, called a rat's video, it's is that them practicing a lead out for the Chapressa. I tend to think we're going to see them try to launch him there. I don't know if that works, though. I just, Yeah, I don't. It's, I mean, it's the most interesting race of the year by far for a reason. Because it's hard to. Yeah, sure. So, yeah, let's, let's I'm also, I looked it up. There is only three riders that have won all five monuments. I'm predicting Pican trying to do that in the single season. But I, I, I don't know why. I don't know why. He just blew me away. He kind of has an aura that not a lot of riders have.
- [29:09]
B
I think it's clear what he wants. You know, I mean he doesn't do any single stage race until romandy. Right. So he, he wants those one day races, you know that he wants me lots of, you know, Flanders, the guy's.
- [29:23]
A
A full time on, He's a full time one day racer and he clear he's treating his grand tours like they're a side job. He didn't really seem to be giving them much thought at the training camp, which is wild.
- [29:35]
B
Well, I mean that's okay. That's what he said, right? I mean.
- [29:38]
A
Yeah. What he did just slot. He flew in from Roubaix. I couldn't believe that.
- [29:45]
B
Yeah.
- [29:45]
A
Can you imagine Lance going and doing Roubaix Recon in December in the middle of his. No, I, I mean, no, I mean.
- [29:55]
B
I think Walt did it, right? Walt Vanart did it also. No, in December he also went on.
- [29:59]
A
Yeah.
- [29:59]
B
He was testing, testing the equipment like these special hubs with the self inflating and deflating tires. Yeah.
- [30:12]
A
Which I think will be when they.
- [30:15]
B
Announced his, I mean you were there when they announced his program. Did he, did he announce Amstel?
- [30:20]
A
Is he going to do Amstel again? You know, it's kind of funny when they do that. They don't. He didn't list like go through a list. He just kind of said the classic. He said like start with Strada and then the Classics.
- [30:34]
B
Okay.
- [30:34]
A
He didn't mention or he said the monuments. He didn't mention Amstel and it's not on his schedule. I, he might not be going because I mean that Roubaix to Liege bridge is so hard.
- [30:47]
B
That's the thing. What I was last year this season, I mean 225, I think, you know, he, he, he was paying for the, the efforts of Flanders and Roubaix. It's a completely different race. And maybe it's better for him to just, you know, train properly for lie ash. You know, rather than racing Amstel.
- [31:10]
A
Yep. And I looked it up and poof. This could be another one I'm biffing. But so he got second Roubaix second at Amstel. And that might be the best combined results in those two races ever. It's very rare. You see someone win.
- [31:24]
B
Yeah. Different type of normally is. Normally is a different type of rider.
- [31:29]
A
Yeah.
- [31:29]
B
You know, already I remember back in the days, you know, like even when, when, when George was was riding Flanders and Roubaix and then, you know, make it to Amstel. Make it to Amstel was already a challenge and then. And Amstel normally. These guys were normally not good. And I mean, they, they were okay, but not in it to win it in the final. Yeah. Yeah.
- [31:52]
A
Well, I think we meant to take an ad break and we did not. So let's, let's take that ad break then. We'll be back for the Grand Tours. Predictions, everybody. This episode is brought to you by hims. You shouldn't have to rearrange your life to deal with hair loss, and HIMS makes expert care accessible on your schedule so you can focus on feeling like yourself again. That's where Hims really pulls ahead. They make it easy to take control with simple personalized care that actually fits your life. HIMS gives you convenient access to prescription hair loss treatments that work, including choose oral meds, serums and sprays, all backed by clinically proven ingredients like finasteride and minoxidil that can stop hair loss and even regrow hair in as little as three to six months. The best part? It's all 100% online. You connect with a licensed medical provider, get a treatment plan personalized for you, and it ships right to your door. No waiting rooms, no awkward pharmacy lines, no surprises, just expert care on your schedule. So for simple online personalized care for things like hair loss, ED, weight loss and more, visit hims.com the move that's hims.com the move. For a free online visit hims.com themove Individual results may vary based on studies of topical and oral minoxidil and finasteride. Featured products include compounded drug products which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety, effectiveness or quality. Prescription required. See website for full details, restrictions and important safety information, everybody. This episode is brought to you by Gusto. When I first started my beyond the Peloton newsletter, I wanted to break down professional cycling in depth, not calculate tax withholdings. And so, as the business grew, I quickly realized I needed help so I could get back to focusing on the nitty gritty of pro cycling and less on my quarterly taxes or whatever you're supposed to do there. That's where Gusto has been a lifesaver. And what is Gusto, you might ask? It's an online Payroll and benefit software built for small businesses. It's all in one remote, friendly and incredibly easy to use. So you can pay, hire onboard and support your team from anywhere. It has automatic payroll tax filing, which is key. Simple direct deposits, health benefits, you name it. Gusto makes it simple and has options for nearly every budget. That's unlimited. Payroll runs for one monthly price. No hidden fees, no surprises. Try gusto today@gusto.com themove that's G-U-S-T-O.com the move and get three months free when you run your first payroll. That's three months free of payroll@gusto.com themoves I gotta say, I love Gusto. If you have a small business, you gotta get. Gusto was a game changer for me. I promise it will help you. Gusto.com themove all right, Johan. So the three grand tours, the Giro d', Italia, Tour de France, Volta Espana. Who do you think is going to win these through? Obviously, we don't know. We don't really know for sure who's going to be at the Giro, the Vuelta, but just best guess, who do you think wins these things?
- [34:40]
B
Well, I think the Giro, if, if it's true, the rumors that we hear that Jonas Vingard is contemplating going. I think if he's at the start, he wins the Giro d'. Italia. Other than. I mean, there's Primus, Roglic. Is Primos doing the Giro? I mean, he has confirmed the Vuelta, but I don't know if he's going to the Giro though, because it's Belizari and. Who else was it? There was another guy, maybe Spelizari and Primos. I don't know.
- [35:16]
A
It's not on his schedule actually.
- [35:18]
B
Huh.
- [35:21]
A
Hold on a second. Was it. It's not Rimco. That was like a false flag operation. That wasn't actually him. Let's look at the start list. Red Bull, who is doing it for them? Oh, okay. Yeah. Jai Hindley in Pelican.
- [35:40]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [35:42]
A
So Hindley, actually, I think he, he could have a good 20, 26. He finished 20, 25 strong, I think. I mean, I think. Did you pick Jonas? Yeah, Jonas, if he does it, yeah, I'm picking the same guy.
- [35:57]
B
I haven't seen any confirmation, though, that he. I mean, they were, they were considering it, so they haven't decided yet.
- [36:05]
A
I think he's so good, he's so much better than the third best GC rider in the sport that it's almost worth picking him, even if you don't know for sure, because if he does it, he'll probably win it.
- [36:16]
B
Yeah. Yeah. So, Jiro, Jonas, who do you pick?
- [36:20]
A
Jonas.
- [36:21]
B
Okay.
- [36:22]
A
For the Shiro Tour. Yeah, I think.
- [36:29]
B
Yeah. You know, he could. He. He only loses if something happens to him, like a crash or an illness. I think.
- [36:39]
A
If we're really trying to gamify this, one of us would pick someone that was not him. And then we would say, look, we were so smart. We knew he wasn't going to win, but I think he probably wins.
- [36:50]
B
Yeah, yeah. And the Vuelta. I put a question mark Spencer, because we don't know who's going. You know, I mean, we know Primos is going. So let's say if Jonas and today are not doing the Vuelta, then I'm going to pick Primos. You know, would make him the, the only record holder. Now he's tied with Roberto Eras. They, they both won four times and he could win it five times. But still, you know, I don't think we've seen in 20, 25 signs that primos was in contention for a Grand Tour. You know, he. He was not. I mean, he crashed out of the. He crashed out of the Giro, I think. I mean, he crashed and then he abandoned, right?
- [37:44]
A
Yeah.
- [37:45]
B
And the Tour, I mean, he was, he was okay, but he was never, never at the level that we. We are used from him. So listen, if this is a, you know, if this is a season where, where Primos focuses on winning his fifth Vuelta and then going for one week races which he usually did in the past, then I wouldn't put it past Primos to win the vaulter.
- [38:08]
A
I'm going to pick for Gacha just because if he does it, he'll probably win it. I'm a little worried. I was going through Primo's results yesterday on the plane. I'm a little worried he's done winning Grand Tours. You know, these Grand Tour winners, they, they turn a corner and then they can't win anymore. I'm worried we've arrived there. I would love to see him win the Voice.
- [38:30]
B
Yates and you win your second Grand Tour seven years after your first one.
- [38:33]
A
Yeah, the only thing about that, I, I was anticipating you saying this. Yates kind of tricked us because he won that. He was so good, so young. Adam. Simon Yates is 33 years old. You know, he's like, not that old. Roglich is, I believe, three or four years older than him, 36. So Simon Yates is only at the age Roglich was when he was winning loads of all, like, yeah, yeah, he's probably at his prime at 33. And so Simon Yates isn't as old as we perceive him to be. I'm gonna. Pip. Yeah.
- [39:12]
B
I. I agree. I agree. If, listen, if Bugachar starts the Vuelta, he's winning. Question is, will he. Will he start? Right. If. It's not so much about the quantity of races that Pugach would be doing if he does the. The Vuelta, But I think the pressure every single race, it's the pressure in the race, but it's also the whole circus around the figure of Pugach every time he's at the start of a race that I think personally, you know, especially even after the Tour, that he probably say, okay, you know what? Time to breathe a bit. You know.
- [39:52]
A
Yeah, you did get that sense that it's a lot. It's a lot in these questions. I mean, we were saying this privately lunch, just these questions. I can't imagine having to sit through that all the time. It's like, not always the most sophisticated line of questioning.
- [40:09]
B
Sometimes I really feel bad for these guys. I mean, that's at the Tour de France especially. You know, it's because it's every day, right? I mean, every day and you're sitting there and. And, And I mean, I don't want to point out anybody, but there are some journalists who ask some really stupid questions that I think. And then I put myself in the place of that cyclist. What the hell do you want to answer to this? You know, it's like. And you can see really, the boredness on the face of the writer when he answers. Doesn't even know what he answered. Just says something.
- [40:46]
A
Just grab a. Yeah, there's an interview with Bradley Wiggins where he was saying, you have to treat the press like they're stupid and they don't know what they're talking about, which sounds harsh, but these guys, they just have to give programmed answers all the time.
- [41:01]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [41:03]
A
And I think.
- [41:04]
B
I mean, listen there. And also listen, Spencer, I mean it to the, you know, in defense of the. The journalists who are sitting in dress conferences. It is always the same thing. Right? I mean, what. What else do you want to ask, you know?
- [41:18]
A
Yeah. Stage. What's different than stage 14?
- [41:23]
B
Exactly.
- [41:23]
A
Yeah. Yeah. And so I'm penciling you in for Roglich for the Vuelta.
- [41:30]
B
Yeah.
- [41:32]
A
So I think this, the next one, I think, could be the best competition of the year. Green jersey, Tour de France. Who are you picking for that?
- [41:42]
B
Dr. Philipson.
- [41:43]
A
Yeah, that's a pretty good pick. I'm gonna go this is probably my least scientific of my picks. Mads Pedersen. I don't really. I haven't not studied the course enough to know where the points are given out.
- [41:57]
B
Mads Pedersen is an animal, and he is. He can. Yeah, he can. He can win any points jersey in any Grand Tour.
- [42:08]
A
I mean, it wasn't at the. Maybe this. It might not have been a good course for him this year to win the green jersey, because there was a lot of. It would be a sprint 15k into the stage, and that's probably too easy. Too easy to control. But, man, he could give. He could give some, like Phillips and a lot of problems. And Phillipson's a great writer. That's a guy who's finished twice at second at Roubaix, twice. So that's how good Matt's Pedersen, I think. I didn't pick him to win any monuments. I wouldn't be shocked if he wins a monument this year. The guy is unbelievable.
- [42:37]
B
Yeah. Yeah, he was. He was. Every single monument he was up there. And I mean, at least the ones that are suited for him. Not Liege and not Lombardy, but.
- [42:50]
A
All.
- [42:50]
B
The Classics, all the cobbled classics. He was there. I mean, that's. That's. Maybe if we. We haven't talked much about it, but, man, his victorying and Wavelengam and how he won, that.
- [43:01]
A
That was something. Yeah, it was. He also. I mean, I. I don't want to read too much into this comment, but he won. Do you remember Uman? It's like human with an eye. They're the underwear sponsor of the Giro, and I think the winner of the points jersey got like a bunch of. They're supposed to be unbreakable underwear, which I don't know why you would need, but he said, he's like, I'm going to try to fart a hole in these before the start of next year's Giro. You're like, man, that guy's motivated. He's not scared of the challenge. But so. So World Championships, time trial and road race. I don't. I'm going to be honest, I don't think I've looked the time trial route, but I do have someone that I think could win it.
- [43:45]
B
Yeah, Remco. Remco wins the World Championships. For the moment, I don't think there's anybody who can beat him. Even if it's. Even if it's a hard course. He's still. He's still. You know, it's. It's. There's something about him and that individual effort. I mean, look, I Mean, we've seen, you know, Pogacha was not at the top when he did the time trial in the World Championship because he was jet lagged. Came from Canada. But I mean that was a hard course and Remco just smoked everybody there. So, yeah, World Championships this Remco. And today again, I said the only thing that can disturb these predictions, Spencer, if, if something happens to these guys, you know, like, or they're out with an injury or nailed this or something.
- [44:31]
A
Yeah, I, I think Remco, I mean, because we saw, you know, because Bagatra wasn't at his best at the World Championships. But even I think it was stage seven of the 2024 Tour in Jeffrey Shambron. They had a time trial that was pretty even. You know, it was a little bit of climbing, a little bit of flat, little bit of descending. And Pigatra was obviously in shape because he won that tour and he still got beat by Remco. So Remco, I mean that. That's as per. It's close to perfect at time trials as you can get. I don't think you can get much better than, than he can.
- [45:05]
B
I think for the. I think we can say Remco is the best time trialist we would say ever.
- [45:11]
A
I think he's. I think we did this on the show. And if he wins one more world title, he's getting to a point where it's hard to deny that.
- [45:20]
B
Yeah.
- [45:21]
A
Yeah.
- [45:24]
B
Was it, was it, was it Tony Martin who won four times or five times the World Championships?
- [45:30]
A
Tony Martin had. He had more. Yeah, than I remember, man. I might have this in my notes somewhere. Oh, man, I can't. Yeah, he, he had some up crazy amount. It was like four, four world titles, I want to say. And did he have multiple Olympic titles? No, because 202008 was. Cancellara.
- [45:56]
B
Cancellara won in 2008 and 2012 and 2016. No, no, no, no, no. Sorry, sorry. 2012. No, 2012. He was second. Yeah.
- [46:06]
A
What are you talking about?
- [46:08]
B
He gets one. So. Yeah.
- [46:09]
A
Coworker. One in 2012.
- [46:12]
B
Yeah. 2008, 2016. Okay. Yeah, yeah.
- [46:18]
A
And so I think. Who do you think wins the road race? I, I agree with you. I think Remco's winning time trial and.
- [46:25]
B
On and it's in Montreal. I mean, he's winning all the time. The, the World cup race there. So. The World Tour race. So I think, I mean 60 kilometers longer.
- [46:39]
A
Do they. Are they doing the World Tour race two weeks before the.
- [46:43]
B
Yes, they do.
- [46:44]
A
And it's similar circuit. Right.
- [46:47]
B
It's on the course.
- [46:48]
A
I think, I think there might be.
- [46:50]
B
A slight, I mean they're probably, probably going to change it a bit. But yeah, I think what's the climb? There is, there's what? There's this one climb that they're definitely doing that climb that's interesting.
- [47:03]
A
I mean I'm going for the world title but if you really had a lot of time on your hands, go for both of those and stay in between.
- [47:09]
B
I mean Spencer, I'm gonna, you know, it's, it's hard but it's not as hard for example as Kigati.
- [47:20]
A
That's true. I mean Keego like that might be one of the hardest we ever see.
- [47:23]
B
Yeah.
- [47:24]
A
Yeah. So it is more open than, than it has been in, in the last years. But.
- [47:31]
B
Well, I mean but if you say that Pulacha is going to be better than, than 20, 25, then whatever.
- [47:38]
A
I mean, yeah, I, I, I will just say I was from the outside we hear like oh he's bored, he's going to retire. And you don't get that sense at all when he's in the room. You know, this is a man on a mission.
- [47:50]
B
Yeah.
- [47:51]
A
Yeah. So Oscar on Lee. I like those predictions. I'm excited to check in on them next year. Oscar on Lee officially joined in ineos. I believe you said that you predicted that the rumored or reported transfer fee from picnic post NL6 million. That's a nice little. This explains why Picnic why this happens somewhat without issue and Picnic signed the deal because that's a lot of money for a team like that. Oscar onley is what, 23 years old, finished fourth the Tour de France. British writer. Kind of makes sense for him to go to. He's 23 October 20 turn 23 in October. So I'll be 23 all next year.
- [48:36]
B
Oh wow.
- [48:37]
A
And yeah, I mean he also you forget he was third at Tour Switzerland. Like a hard tour to Switzerland with very good competition. It was Almeida, Kevin Vuklon, Oscar Onley, two of those guys going to INEOS next year. That's a lot of money though. I mean because then we saw, to compare this, we saw what 10 million buyout. 10 million euro buyout for Juana you so Remco probably close to around that Derek G7 Spencer.
- [49:08]
B
I, I think, I mean this, these amounts are out of control, man. I mean the thing is now, now the, the trend is set. Right. So where does, where is this gonna stop? I was, I thought already 7 million for Remco is, it's a big Gamble, you know, it's a huge gamble because you know, basically you're, you're buying someone that has to basically lead the team and carry the weight of the whole team. And it obviously we're talking about three teams who have, I'm not going to say unlimited but, but very deep pockets. Red Bull has a big budget, a huge budget. Ineos has a big budget and little track now also have a huge budget with little now being the majority owner of the team. So I still think it's, it's a big gamble, man. Like I mean 10 million for Ayuso.
- [50:17]
A
And when you reverse engineer that and say what would you be happy with?
- [50:22]
B
We're talking about three riders who. Okay. Remco. I think Remco sticks out because he has a Paul Morris. He's been, he's won a Grand Tour. He's been third in the Tour de France.
- [50:34]
A
One monuments potentially the best time trials of all time.
- [50:38]
B
Multiple world champion in several. You know, on the road and in the time trial, Olympic gold. You know, there is not, there are not many riders that have the same Palmares. I think it's only Pugach who's done better. If you look at the victories, you know, the pure victories, I mean there's.
- [50:59]
A
Nobody else maybe you would say two Tour de France's trumps that for Jonas, for Eunice.
- [51:07]
B
Two Tours and one Vuelta. Well, yeah, I mean double Olympic gold. How many world time trials has now? Yes, I think he has four. Four. No, one on the road and three in the time trial.
- [51:24]
A
Yeah, and an Olympic. Yeah, a double Olympic gold, double link gold trial.
- [51:31]
B
You know, plus he's, he's younger.
- [51:33]
A
Also a lot of. And a lot of monument success that Jonas hasn't had.
- [51:36]
B
Question is Spencer, you know, let's assume Jonas Vingegaard all of a sudden is on the market for a transfer. How much would they pay for it?
- [51:45]
A
Well, the weird, and the weird thing about these figures is you just set AO10 million, Remco7 million. I was like, well why, why is Juan worth 3 million? I think the length of his contract played into that. Remco was an expiring deal. They would have lost him. But does that make any sense? Why is Oscar Onley 6 million euros and Remco 7 million euros? Like what's going on here? Some of it seems a little funny.
- [52:08]
B
I would have thought I would have. I mean for Oscar only. I mean he's a, he's a great writer. But you know, he's four. He's been fourth in the Tour if, if you would, if they would have asked me, you know, how much do you think they're going to pay for him? I would have, say two and a half, three maximum as a transfer. But six million plus, you know, it's. I don't know he's going to sign a three year deal, four year deal. I don't know. It's going to. Also going to be.
- [52:34]
A
Going to be a lot of money.
- [52:36]
B
It's going to be 3 million minimum.
- [52:39]
A
Yeah. I'm trying to think though, if I manage, if I was managing any of those, the team, the cycling team and I, I had a mandate to sign the best British Grand Tour, like the, the British rider that was most likely to win the Tour de France. And money's not an issue. You can kind of see how the, the figures can get that high because there's no second option for you. It's Oscar only or bust at this point.
- [53:05]
B
Yeah, yeah. The question is, though, is he going to win the Tour? He's young. He's young, so he's 20. So we have to look, we have to look, you know, five, six years ahead and, you know, there's obviously going to be some of those guys. I mean, Bogachar and, and Jonas are not going to be here for another six years. I think, you know, they could physically, but I think mentally that they're not able to do it for another six years. I don't think so.
- [53:37]
A
Well, and you get weird. You get weird tours and think of Vincenzo Nibali 2014, who saw that, you know, just stuff opens up and you can win. Yeah. And you know. Yeah, yeah. I think the thing though, you have to ask yourself is if Oscar only.
- [53:52]
B
Spencer, you also, you have. Yeah. Florian Lipovitz, who beat Oscar only. Who's young also.
- [53:59]
A
Who's also young.
- [54:01]
B
Yeah.
- [54:01]
A
Who they're not paying 6 million transfer fee for. They just signed for free.
- [54:05]
B
No.
- [54:05]
A
And then the money they paid them, you know, like that, that shows you why development is so important. If he can spot these riders before they get to that level, it's a huge advantage. I, I do. I just can't get over the. This question of if Oscar only doesn't win the Tour. How do you feel about that as the team? Are you disappointed? Are you happy with it? Like what, what could Juana, you so do in his career that would make them feel good about that $10 million fee. 10 million euro fee.
- [54:32]
B
But he needs, he needs to win a Grand Tour.
- [54:35]
A
Yeah, for sure. I mean, maybe multiple.
- [54:39]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [54:40]
A
I mean, that's it's that. That's tough to live up to that condition.
- [54:45]
B
My question is, Spencer, I wouldn't. I would like to know your opinion on this. So we're talking here about Juana Yusuh, who's young. Remco is still relatively young. He's not the youngest, but he's still young. Is 25. No, Remco I think is.
- [55:04]
A
He's 26. 26.
- [55:08]
B
He was still in the. He was still in the white jersey this year.
- [55:11]
A
Well, isn't that 26 and under or so it's some ridiculous age, but it was.
- [55:15]
B
I don't. I don't know.
- [55:16]
A
Oh, no, no, you're right. You're right. He's 25. That's why he was in the white jersey. Okay, so you'll still be eligible for the white jersey next year.
- [55:24]
B
Well, so what are you. So 23?
- [55:27]
A
Yeah, he's actually been pro longer than you think.
- [55:30]
B
Yeah.
- [55:30]
A
Oh, he was.
- [55:31]
B
He was 19 and he was third in the World Cup. So you have 23. 25 for Remco. Oscar, only 23. You know, these guys, you would say, well, you know, my question is how much margin of progress is there still with these guys? How much can they improve?
- [55:53]
A
Yeah, we do seem to.
- [55:56]
B
Look, I. Sometimes I'm seeing writers and more and more, and even in the younger categories, they get to a point you say, wow, this is amazing. And all of a sudden they stagnate and that's it. What's the question is how much can Ayuso and Remco and Oscar only still get better? How much?
- [56:13]
A
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- [56:38]
B
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A new line $100 plus a month plan with auto payments, taxes and fees required. Check out in 15 minutes or less per line. Visit t mobile.com Johan, you've walked into our first question. This is something I think about all the time because we assume we see these young riders and we assume a curve of progression that sometimes isn't there and I think is becoming less and less common. I mean think of UDA Brooks. It was oh what is this guy going to be? It's like he might, he might have been, that might have been the best Buddha Brooks we saw at the 20 was at the 2023 Volta IS. It's not. If you, if you are so dialed in at a young age, that might be it. Here's a question this is from me I've been wondering about. So blind Resume of riders 19 year old from France won zero professional races versus a 22 year old from Mexico winner of in he's podium finisher on a Grand Tour winner of I believe 19 professional races the last year alone. Who is the better writer now and then who will be the better writer at the end of their careers? This is Paul Seychelles and Isaac Del Toro. If you go to Reddit, it's just, it's assumed that Paul Seychelles is going to be the best writer of all time. You know, that's the young person, young cycling fans opinion Del Toro, the guy's trash. He's never going to do anything. It's like well they're only three years apart winning. Johan, how many riders ever win 19 races in a year? That's like almost never happens.
- [59:09]
B
I'm taking Del Toro over Paul Seychelles all the time.
- [59:13]
A
I completely, this is what I spent Thanksgiving doing arguing with teenagers on Reddit about this. Well, you're motivated but I just, it's like we're looking at a guy that's already at one of his production level for Del Toro is unbelievable. Seychelles maybe was the, he's maybe the best 18 year old we've ever seen. But he still, he still has levels to go before he's even winning races first.
- [59:45]
B
Let's start with that.
- [59:47]
A
Win a race. Yeah.
- [59:49]
B
One thing we know is Del Toro knows how to win races, man. He. He's. He. He knows how to win races. He's a racer.
- [59:55]
A
Yeah, yeah.
- [59:57]
B
I mean, listen, Shas is young and he will win races for sure. You know, it's a matter of time. But it's funny now, I'm thinking back at this stage in Tour of the Alps, Spencer, where Cey was.
- [60:14]
A
Gave it away. Right.
- [60:16]
B
He gave it away to his teammate. Was it Nicolas Prudhomme? Yeah.
- [60:21]
A
Who then went on to, like, have.
- [60:23]
B
A career, never won a race. And then he went on to win race after race after race, and, boss, they just finally didn't win a race.
- [60:30]
A
Yes.
- [60:31]
B
Yeah.
- [60:31]
A
Which is quite bold to be giving away a professional race when you've never won a professional race. It's I.
- [60:39]
B
That's being confident, man.
- [60:40]
A
Yeah, I kind of can't believe that. But I think this speaks to. I do think pro cycling at the moment at least overestimates it. It overvalues potential and undervalues current production. Simon Yates, your. Your best friend, represents us better than anybody. I mean, he was not highly thought of. Like you said, that's the biggest transfer of the off season. I think a lot of people thought, that's a nice domestic domestique. He ends up winning a Grand Tour, you know, but that's not a sexy acquisition for our. For our little human brains. We're just like, oh, he's 32 years old. Like, I don't. Like what. What fun is that?
- [61:17]
B
Shots.
- [61:18]
A
He's 18. Like, he could accomplish anything. And I even think inside the sport, it gets overvalued. It's like, well, Juana, you. So what could he do? It's like, well, he's not that much younger than Remco Evol, who's. Who's already at a level that's better than most. Almost every writer. Think about Inri Moss. If I told you Paul Seychell said Inri Moss's career, you'd probably say that's a huge disappointment. Correct. What percentage of GC writers ever have a better career than Inrik Moss? It must be in the single digits, right? Not many.
- [61:49]
B
Not many.
- [61:50]
A
Yeah. I mean, I just think people. It's almost a disease of the mind, especially the modern mind, that can't comprehend it, can't correctly peg what success and what's a likely outcome for a prospect. Just we. We just assume everyone's going to be the next Bagachar. When that's, that's actually very unlikely. It very does almost never happens.
- [62:11]
B
Yeah, for sure.
- [62:12]
A
And here's another question for you. So on the transfers we're seeing these crazy transfer fees. You know, 6 million for Oscar, only 10 million for Juan. You so 7 million for Remco, which could be worth it based on what we just said. Derek G is going to get, he's going to get a. Or NSN is going to get a big old bag for Derek G. There's a lot of money so both for the team selling and buying. And then you have guys like Cam Jones who I, I know personally, I've interviewed him before, but he's from New Zealand. He won unbound.
- [62:44]
B
Who's that? Spencer.
- [62:46]
A
He's a gravel racer. He won unbound gravel. Unbound, yeah. Gravel, I think is the race. It's like the big gravel race. And he won the lifetime Grand Prix the overall which is impressive because he had to do well at Leadville. And this guy, he's big, he's 83 kilos and he got I think 10th at Leadville which is, it's an all altitude climbing race. He did a little Christmas Day ride, I believe 500 kilometers, 13 hours average power 302 watts, average heart rate 130, 35. So he's probably in about high zone one for that 300 watt effort for 13 hours. That puts his FTP like high four hundreds should teams be going after. It's like, wow, that's a big engine. Maybe we see what we can do with it. Throw him a couple hundred thousand euros. If it works out, it's great. Maybe you sell them for a ton if not.
- [63:35]
B
Yeah, it's worth the gamble. The question of how old is he?
- [63:39]
A
He is, he might be the, the dis like yeah, these ages are like diseases. People don't want to touch them. I think he's 24, 25, just turned 25.
- [63:51]
B
Yeah, if that's me. Yeah. I think the question is, you know, throw me, throw him in the pro peloton in, in Europe. Is he able to ride in a bunch?
- [64:01]
A
Yeah, he is a, he is an ex World cup mountain biker. So it's not. He does not have no skills, clearly.
- [64:09]
B
Well, that's not dispenser. Being a mountain biker is no guarantee to be able to ride in a bunch. You know there was a guy, I mean he ultimately he learned how to ride in a bunch but he was never, he never good at it. Cadell Evans, he was a model, he.
- [64:27]
A
Did pretty well Though he had some decent results.
- [64:32]
B
Yeah, but he was. He was terrible in a bunch.
- [64:34]
A
Yeah. Yeah, I did. I. Now that you're saying that I am kind of remembering a lot of issues in the bunch. It is. It is a unique skill.
- [64:42]
B
Years of a pro, you know, then after ultimately he. He learned it. But yeah, listen, whatever happened to me, that's not possible anymore in today's cycling, I think, you know, you see these guys coming late to the game. Even Primos, you know, obviously Primos has issues. You know, you have this other guy. What's his guy's name? I mean, he's not. Not such a big name, but also came late to the game. This guy Bart Lemon, in.
- [65:11]
A
On.
- [65:11]
B
On Visma. Yeah, you know, they're strong riders, but, you know, and. And then they're strong in. In certain races, like you know, point two races and where the bunch is not so strong and. But. But when you're really in the big races, man, you have to be skilled, man. And whether you have even a mountain bike or a gravel racer, it's completely irrelevant once you are in a. In a. In a big bunch in. In the top of the top races.
- [65:39]
A
That is true. It is a unique skill. It's almost. It is a different sport. So you have to learn that. Not ideal, but I kind of. I'm wondering if these figures are getting. If you're a team like Jayco, I mean, do you have any other option? What are you going to do? Like, you can't. Oh, can't pay 6 million for Oscar.
- [65:55]
B
Only Spencer, you're right. I mean, there should be a team who sees these performances and says, hey, you know what? Listen, you say 200, even if they give him a hundred thousand, he's going to take it, you know.
- [66:07]
A
Yeah, all he's paid 100k, which is not the same in gravel.
- [66:12]
B
Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, yeah, there should be a team looking at this and give it the go. You know, there's nothing to lose.
- [66:23]
A
I agree. I'm sure. I'm actually shocked that guys part of its timing too, because he wins unbound in June, you know, a lot of negotiations for 2026 are probably underway. There's not a lot of roster spots even at that.
- [66:36]
B
There's always that odd spot left. You know, with teams that, you know, they. They run out of budget. They have a little bit. A little bit left. But you know, then the good riders don't want to come for that amount of money. It's. Yeah, I. I would give it a go.
- [66:51]
A
I would too. I'm I'm surprised actually. My prediction is that this will become.
- [66:57]
B
Let'S start, let's start a campaign. Let's be the agent, the pro bono agent of this guy and let's try to find him a team.
- [67:04]
A
If you want to sign Cam Jones email info WEDO team and we'll take a cut.
- [67:09]
B
Let's have him on the.
- [67:10]
A
We should have him on the. Maybe in January we'll try to get him on here. Very nice guy. And that's important too in pro cycling. Got to be a nice person because people are around you all the time. Before we go, Johan, our Strava mileage challenge. This is probably final results or close to final.
- [67:25]
B
Important topic of the podcast. Spencer.
- [67:27]
A
Yeah, I hope people stuck around. So this is a disputed. This. This might have to go to Kas because Johan on his Strava, on his Public Strava has 12,439 kilometers for the year. I have 12,395 kilometers. So I'm 38 kilometers behind with three days remaining. That's. That's doable in theory. But Johan's private Strava, unlike his, the feed that he sees is 12,593 kilometers to my 12,395. That's a difference of 198 kilometers. I don't think I can outride you by 66 kilometers for the next three days. If you're also riding one, 100 kilometers a day probably isn't going to happen.
- [68:17]
B
I have only two days left. You have three days left, Spencer.
- [68:19]
A
I do have an. Yeah, because I'm on the. I'm close to the international dateline, so I do have an extra day with that. I do not think I can close the 198 kilometer gap, but that's exactly what someone would say if they had a plan to do nothing but ride for the next three days. So people will just have to stay stay glued to our Strava accounts to know that.
- [68:39]
B
See the Strava says on the 31st. I think independently. Spencer I think we've both done well. You know, we've both ridden a lot and you know, and have had fun on the bike. So we even got the ride together for a little bit two weeks ago. So that was fun.
- [68:59]
A
It is actually. We were talking privately. It's weird that we both tend to ride right over 12,000 km a year without really thinking about it. That's just where we, where we bet in. But then I we might have talked about this on the podcast. You wonder like we're creating neural pathways, like, that's what we're used to riding. That's what we do. If you ride with a power meter all the time, I kind of wonder that's holding people back, especially young riders that ride with power meters all the time. You get used to a certain wattage, and then you don't push yourself out of a comfort zone because you're like, you just think, oh, that's what I ride. I ride 300 watts all the way around. You know, I just ride that for six hours. But could you.
- [69:41]
B
I don't ride 300 watts all the time.
- [69:43]
A
If you're Cam Jones, that's what you're doing. High zone two, three zero two or high zone one. 300 watts. Zone two might be 350, but yeah, that's not what we're doing. But I wonder if that is holding people back because we're clearly falling into this rhythm where we ride 12,000km a year. That's obviously a lot. That's more than a lot of people. And it's easy. It is shockingly easy. Johan. If we didn't have this challenge and we stopped riding our bike for a month, we might never get back on. It's very easy not to ride a bike and to get out of the habit.
- [70:14]
B
Yeah, yeah. But, you know, I mean, once you get into the rhythm and the routine. Spencer, you know, after. I mean, you know, after two or three days, no riding, you. You, you just want to go out on the bike. If the weather is. Is okay.
- [70:27]
A
Yeah. And you live in a place that's not. Not terrible for riding that probably what's. What wears most people down. They don't live in ride friendly places. And you get out of the habit. But anything else, Johan, before the year.
- [70:40]
B
Ends, it's just past midnight and I, I mean, I have to go to bed, man, because I have to write. I have to. Or otherwise you're coming. You're coming for me.
- [70:51]
A
You got to get out there. It's weird that it's. Wow. We're like living in different days. This is complicates the challenge, makes it more interesting. But thanks for a great year of. A year of great podcasting from you. And we'll speak in first. I don't know, maybe second Friday. I haven't looked at the calendar. We'll speak the second. We will have a show the second week of January coming out.
- [71:13]
B
Okay, good.
- [71:14]
A
All right.
- [71:15]
B
Thank you.
- [71:15]
A
Thanks, Johan.
- [71:16]
B
And happy New Year to everybody.
- [71:18]
A
Yes, Happy New Year.
- [71:27]
B
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