Remco's Stage Race Struggles Continue as Del Toro & Seixas Rise | THEMOVE+

Summary

THEMOVE+ Podcast Summary

Episode: Remco's Stage Race Struggles Continue as Del Toro & Seixas Rise
Date: February 20, 2026
Host: Spencer Martin
Guest: Johan Bruyneel

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the early 2026 pro cycling season, with special focus on rising talents Paul Seixas and Isaac Del Toro, and Remco Evenepoel's ongoing struggles in stage races. Spencer Martin and Johan Bruyneel break down recent happenings at the Volta ao Algarve, UAE Tour, and Ruta del Sol (Vuelta a Andalucía), offering insider analysis on race tactics, rider development, and team dynamics. The episode also touches on sponsorship shifts and the financial pressures facing WorldTour teams.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Paul Seixas’ Breakthrough at Volta ao Algarve

• [00:37] / [11:28] / [13:19] — Both hosts are emphatic about Seixas’ tactical and physical growth, likening his composure to legendary pros early in their careers.
• Stage 2 Recap: Seixas, at just 19, outmaneuvered older, more experienced rivals (notably João Almeida and Juan Ayuso) in a summit finish, showcasing a combination of race savvy and power.
  • Quote [13:19], Bruyneel: “Today was definitely a demonstration of the class and the talent of Paul Seixas on all levels. Strengthwise, race savvy… he took the right line. Definitely a big, big, big victory and well deserved for him.”
  • Quote [13:48], Martin: “…at 19, he looks a lot more polished than Pogacar did. If you go back and watch those early Pogacar wins, he kind of didn’t know what he was doing. This looked really studied and tactically astute.”
• Big Picture: There’s a sense that Seixas and Del Toro are part of a new generation about to leapfrog the “middle” group of current GC contenders.

2. Generational Shift Among Stage Race Stars

• [12:47] / [13:19] — Conversation that the likes of Ayuso, Almeida, Oscar Onley and others may be skipped over by the “super-talent” new wave (Seixas, Del Toro)—suggesting a rapid generational turnover.
• Quote [12:47], Martin: “Are these guys going to get skipped—like, Pogacar retires and it’s Del Toro and Seixas and there’s not going to be room for that middle generation?”

3. Remco Evenepoel’s Recurring GC Problems

• [28:27] onwards — The stark pattern: Evenepoel dominates time trials, but faces dramatic collapses on summit finishes.
  • Recent UAE Tour: He wins the TT, but loses two minutes on the climb to Jebel Hafeet.
  • Historical Context: This marks his fourth consecutive WorldTour stage race where he wins a TT, then is dropped on a crucial climb.
  • Quote [41:48], Martin: “…this is the fourth straight World Tour stage race where he’s won the time trial, dropped on a climb… must be mental, right? [From the] time trials… we know the form is there.”
• Possible Causes: Hosts speculate about injuries (Basque crash, postal van crash), inability to adapt to long, steep climbs as opposed to explosiveness on shorter efforts, or even psychological barriers.
  • Quote [42:27], Bruyneel: “For some reason he hasn’t done it yet… I can’t find that consistency in that level and I’m a bit puzzled.”

4. Isaac Del Toro’s Rapid Ascent

• [34:37] / [35:17] — Del Toro is lauded for pacing himself on the Jebel Hafeet climb, pushing huge watts in the final kilometers and moving into overall contention.
  • Quote [35:17], Bruyneel: “That’s 7.4 watts per kilo… He knew what he was doing… He was on a mission.”
• His ability to handle pressure as team leader for the first time is a recurring theme.

5. Antonio Tiberi’s Victory & Redemption Arc

• [36:19] / [37:19] — Tiberi claims a rare win and the overall lead at UAE Tour. His career is recounted, including both accomplishments and the notorious “cat incident.”
  • Quote [37:19], Bruyneel (joking): “Funny stories—the guy is most famous for killing a cat.”
• Both hosts agree Tiberi is now a serious podium threat for Grand Tours, underlining the predictive value of UAE Tour results for Tour de France success.

6. Sean Kelly Anecdote

• [02:22] / [03:42] — Johan describes a recent ride with cycling legend Sean Kelly in Spain, marveling at his enduring strength and legacy.
  • Quote [02:22], Bruyneel: “He turned 70 this year… still strong, incredibly fit. The legend. My son said, second best rider of all time in the rankings.”
• Kelly’s career success and underrated status are discussed, with reference to his all-rounder versatility.

7. Team Transfer Markets & Financial Dynamics

• [54:14] onwards — Visma | Lease a Bike’s title sponsor issues and tightening budget.
  • The environment is more challenging—rising costs, extravagant wages, and volatile sponsorship markets.
  • Quote [57:18], Martin: “…a lot of their strategy looks like right now, it’s like, hey Matthew Brennan, you want to go win some races? The depth looks a little thin.”
• Comparison with the big spending of Ineos, Red Bull, Lidl-Trek, and what “team-building” means in an overheated market.
  • Quote [59:25], Bruyneel: “7 million for Remco is crazy. 6 million for Oscar Onley is crazy. These are buyouts, not even salaries.”

8. Broadcast & Media Changes

• [06:23] — European and US cycling media rights now consolidated on HBO Max for major races (Giro, UAE Tour, etc.), streamlining viewing but disappointing for fans of earlier platforms.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “[Seixas] is already fine-tuned… He knows how to train, has his nutrition dialed in, knows how to race. There’s not much he has to learn except maybe learning his own body.”
  — Johan Bruyneel [14:16]
• “These are the big names—you know, the next level is Pogacar, Jonas, and Del Toro… there’s nothing else close to this.”
  — Bruyneel [12:47]
• “Del Toro paced himself perfectly. 470 watts average in the final nine minutes—7.4 watts per kilo.”
  — Bruyneel [35:17]
• “Five of the last seven UAE Tour winners have gone on to podium at the Tour de France—that matters for who wins next.”
  — Martin [39:21]
• “Remco is a natural leader. At this moment, I don’t think with Remco there should be another GC rider [on the team]. He wants to be the leader.”
  — Bruyneel [49:18]
• “10 million for Juan Ayuso is crazy… whatever it is, 7 million for Remco is crazy… these amounts don’t really make sense.”
  — Bruyneel [59:21]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

| Time | Segment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:37 | Opening: Seixas’ breakthrough, race wrap from Algarve | | 02:22 | Johan’s ride with Sean Kelly: legacy and impact | | 06:23 | Cycling broadcast/media rights shift to HBO Max | | 10:28 | Detailed breakdown: Algarve Stage 2 and Seixas’ win | | 14:40 | Upcoming TT analysis: who could win the Algarve overall | | 17:40 | Oscar Onley’s resilience & off-season challenges | | 18:18 | Ruta del Sol recap (Laporte, Romeo, lesser Spanish races) | | 22:44 | Sprint incident with Jan Christen and crash analysis | | 28:27 | UAE Tour analysis: Del Toro, Tiberi, and Remco’s collapse | | 34:37 | Del Toro’s pacing masterclass and wattage stats | | 41:48 | Deep dive: Remco’s recurring stage race issues | | 46:24 | The impact of injuries and possible explanations | | 49:18 | Red Bull’s leadership dilemma and Remco’s role | | 54:14 | Visma’s sponsorship crisis & market analysis | | 57:53 | Rider salaries, transfer fees, & bidding wars |

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Other Memorable Moments

• [51:47] Brief cameo by Bruyneel's dog Bobby—“Our audience loves Bobby… he wants to be on camera.”
• [57:18] Spencer drawing a comparison between cycling and the overheated transfer market in soccer.
• [60:45] “You have to win the Tour or else everything is a disappointment… at that amount of money.”

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Episode Tone

The discussion is lively, candid, and heavily analytical, peppered with insider anecdotes and the easy back-and-forth of two true cycling insiders. Both Spencer and Johan are willing to critique riders, teams, and even the sport’s financial machinery, but their enthusiasm for the latest crop of racers and for cycling history continually shines through.

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In Summary

Ideal for listeners who want the nuance behind race results, THEMOVE+ lays out why Seixas and Del Toro are shaking up the pecking order, what’s (still) going wrong for Remco Evenepoel, the financial chess game between World Tour teams, and what to expect as the early 2026 season unfolds. The hosts leave us with a sense of both excitement for coming rivalries and realism about the sport’s economic pressures.

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For next episode: Check back for the hosts’ wrap-up of Algarve, UAE Tour, and Andalusia results—including whether Evenepoel bounces back, and further debate on cycling’s new balance of power.

Transcript

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[Spencer Martin]

From unsolved mysteries to unexplained phenomena.

[Johan Berniel]

From comedy goal to relationship fails.

[Spencer Martin]

Amazon Music's got the most ad free top podcasts included with prime because the only thing that should interrupt your listening is, well, nothing.

[Johan Berniel]

Download the Amazon music app today. Today was definitely a demonstration of the class and the talent of Paul Ceychas on all levels. You know, like strength wise, race savvy. The way he finished that stage by taking the last corners closed. I mean, didn't close in, but he took the right line and yeah, I mean definitely a big, big, big victory and well deserved for him.

[Spencer Martin]

And I'm not saying he's going to be better than Teddy Pagacha. I just want to, I want that out there. I will say at 19, he looks a lot more polished than Pugachar did. If you go back and watch those early Pagar wins and successes, he kind of didn't know what he was doing. It looked like, yeah, I don't know. Just right away and win. Whoa. I won. Crazy like this. Looked really studied and tactically astute. Oh yeah. Pretty impressed everybody. Welcome back to the Move Plus. I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Berniel for our weekly show where we go through the news in cycling and as we get into the season, we're breaking down the flurry of racing that's, that's sprung up, that's happening. We just watched the end of Stage 2 of Volta Algarve with Paul Seychas and beating Juana. You so Joalameda and pretty thrilling, I would say. Best race we've seen all year. Uphill finish. We'll talk about the UAE Tour, Remco having a poll. What is going on with his GC issues as well as the Ruto del Sol at Volta Andalusia. Christoph Laporte winning, getting back into form. Johan, before we get into that though, you, you were just on a little trip to the Costa Blanca. You went on some rides, you rode with an old friend. Do you want to fill us in about who that was, how they're doing?

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just. The weekend we were in, we were in Calpe for the weekend. It's a four hour drive so it Was bad weather here in Madrid. And yeah, by coincidence, I, I, you know, I met a group of Irish guys and one of them, I mean, the guy who was leading them was Sean Kelly. So, yeah, I rode with him for four hours. Man, he's still strong, man, he's, he told Me he turned 70 this year in a few months and the guy still has it. He is incredibly fit. It was nice to catch up with him. It's been a while since, I mean, I raced with Sean when I was a young professional. I think he stopped his career probably 93. So I raced a few years with him. We've seen each other sporadically. But yeah, it was nice to, to ride with King Kelly, the legend. Yeah. Second. My son actually told me second best rider of all times in the rankings.

[Spencer Martin]

Really? Interesting.

[Johan Berniel]

Well, if you look at all the, the points on, you know, stage races, one day races, it's Eddie Merckx and the second guy is Sean Kelly.

[Spencer Martin]

Interesting. He, Interesting. What, what would Lance say about that? Would he agree, disagree? Do we know?

[Johan Berniel]

I think, I mean, I mean, yeah, I mean, I think he would agree. I mean, Kelly's a legend. You know, he won all kinds of different races. You know, if I, I actually, I introduced him to my son and my son knew who he was. He was actually the guy who says, you know, you know, he, you know, he's second, second best rider of all time. Sean didn't know. I didn't know.

[Spencer Martin]

Interesting.

[Johan Berniel]

And the guys, I mean, he's, he started being like a sprinter puncher. Then he started, you know, he won stages at the Tour, got the green jersey at the Tour.

[Spencer Martin]

Four times, green jersey winner.

[Johan Berniel]

Okay. Yeah, four times. Okay. Won the Vuelta, was fourth in the Tour. One Pyrenees seven years in a row. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

That's crazy, by the way.

[Johan Berniel]

Seven years in a row. Plus, you know, Paris, Lombardy, whatever, all, you name it. You know, all the, all the big races. Milan San Remo, I think he won Milan Remo twice, I think twice.

[Spencer Martin]

Per. Twice L. Twice, Lamb three times. And he's not even really a stage racer. And he won Barry seven times in a row.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, not being, not being a stage racer and winning parini seven times and winning the va. Yeah, you're a stage racer.

[Spencer Martin]

He's like, he's like if Peter Sagan. I mean, yeah, people, I, I actually, it's not, it's nicer.

[Johan Berniel]

Way better than Peter Sagan.

[Spencer Martin]

I mean, it's almost like Larry Bird where legend supersedes the results and then people underestimate how good they were because, you know Sean Kelly. Like, I met Sean Kelly in person last year. Like, big, you know, he's like, big personality, super nice guy, really nice guy. N, like, nicer than you would think for someone that accomplished. But you forget, your mind glosses over these results. Like, we go back through and look like this guy, he was. He was almost like a proto Pagachar. Like, really was doing stuff that stretched the imagination.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, for sure. I mean, listen, if you're second, I mean, this is the pro cycling stats ranking, right? But if you're second on that ranking, it's not for nothing, you know, it's because you've done. You've done some amazing things. But anyways, it was nice to ride with him and he actually told me he. He bought a place there. So I'm going back tomorrow for a week and yeah, we'll catch up a few times.

[Spencer Martin]

We're not just sponsored by the Costa

[Johan Berniel]

Blanco with him, Right. On my good days. Because he is still really, really strong on the bike.

[Spencer Martin]

I think he rides in Richmond park every day when he's doing the, like, the Eurosport work. Like, he's Cameron.

[Johan Berniel]

He rides all the time. But anyways, you know, let's not Forget he's almost 70 years old. And the.

[Spencer Martin]

The old.

[Johan Berniel]

The old warrior still has it.

[Spencer Martin]

Man, class, classy rider.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

No. No other way to describe it. He. He also relayed some pretty interesting, helpful news for us and our viewers. Listeners. He said, in terms of Spain and a lot of Europe, nothing's changing this year for broadcast. It's still on HBO Max. Is that correct?

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. And in the US I've noticed, I think I said a few weeks ago that the RCS rights hadn't been sold in the US yet. It looks like a deal's been done because I'm watching almost all these races on HBO Max. Flow is a Flows. And what is Float or UAE is. UAE is on HBO Max because it's an RCS race. So all these RCS races and some miscellaneous races are on HBO Max in the us which means Strada Milano, San Remo and the Giro will be on HBO Max as well, which is good because I think it's a good service that is a clean interface. It's sad if you wanted everything on Flow bikes or Peacock, though.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

But Johan, speaking of the racing, we'll just start with the one we just watched, Volta Agarve. This is in Southern Portugal, the southernmost tip. Portugal. Stage one. Paul Manier wins. Pretty good little stage win for Paul.

[Johan Berniel]

First win of the season for Sudal. Paul, man.

[Spencer Martin]

Interesting. Well, the whole. Well. So Tim Rar, we, we listed all their injuries last week. Tim Rar's out, he's hurt. So a lot's going to be on Paul Monier's shoulders because how old is this guy? 20. He's 20 years old, right?

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, I think he's, he's, I think he's old. I think he's 21 or 22 anyway. He's young.

[Spencer Martin]

21.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, he won, he won 19 races last year.

[Spencer Martin]

I think he won a lot of races last year. A lot.

[Johan Berniel]

So yeah, he's off to a good start. I mean it's, it's, it's pretty impressive. A young guy like that. Okay. You know, the big sprinter of the team is out. Okay, I'll step up, I'll take it, you know.

[Spencer Martin]

And, and also keeps this. So there's been two stages at Volta Grave. Two French winners. Kind of interesting that Paul Manier on a Belgian team. You see this sometimes like Alaphilippe on Quick Step. How does that, why does that happen like that a French rider would choose to go to a Belgian team.

[Johan Berniel]

I mean, I mean usually, I mean like if you see Manier and then also what's his name? I mean Alaphilippe, for example, you know, they were on the development teams. They were on the development teams of, of Sudal. You know, Manier was also there I think one year, I think, if I'm not mistaken. I think many was before. I think he was on Trinity Racing, the team of Andrew McQuait.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, I thought that's right actually.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

And then I think he went one year to the development team of Sudal and then made the step to. I mean it's usually where, you know, on the development teams they are. But, but it also says a lot about. Because I'm pretty sure a guy like Paul Manier for his first year. And so this is, this is a second year pro. This is a second year pro now or a third year pro.

[Spencer Martin]

I think it's second. Second year pro.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah. Maybe third year pro already.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, 20, 24. Yeah. Yeah. So it is a 30 year startup is third year.

[Johan Berniel]

So. Yeah. But to, to say no to the, the first, the first contract. Usually, you know, if you're a big talent and you're French, you're going to get offered a lot more on a French team and on a Belgian team. So the guy knew what he was choosing.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, yeah, it's notable to me because it means you're making a Sporting decision based on what you think is going to be good for your career. Which is impressive and shows foresight. Speaking of someone making a lot of money on a French team. Stage 2 Volta Agarve uphill finish Lidl TRACK with their new signing Juana, you so absolutely rips it up this climb. They were flying at the front of that race. It splits. But the rider who was in front a lot of times was Paul Seychas, the 19 year old on decathlon. And Ayuso and Almeida were with him in that front group. Almeida was. It was the classic. On the commentary, they're like, I'll made his dropped. It's like, come on guys, he's not

[Johan Berniel]

dropped, he's coming back.

[Spencer Martin]

We've seen this before. And then Oscar Onley impressively with Matthew Riccatello. Matthew Riccatello just off an impressive win at Tour de la Provence over the weekend. Bridge up to them. So we have a group of five at the front. Almeida's really pressing inside the last kilometer. I thought maybe too much, but maybe he thought that was his best chance. He couldn't drop by you. So he was Ayuso or Seychas. He was distancing the other two. And then Paul Seychas. It was a tricky little final few hundred meters. He gets to the front and he's sprinting very fast. And I. The thing I was most impressed with is I thought he kind of worked over a. The older rider. Tactically, he's four years older than him and he was taking the better lines. Pushing him into the barriers and holds off for a photo finish, uphill sprint up summit finish, first pro win of his career. I, I've been a little cool on Seychelles the last few weeks, maybe on the show, but I thought this was a super impressive win. What about you?

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean he was, he was putting the hurt on. You saw the whole climb. I think I saw an interview of him before. Turo Vogava sounded really confident and yeah, he delivered. First time that, you know, he's put in a position where he has to carry the weight of the team and, and deliver. He. He won this stage. Is it gonna be enough for gc? We don't know. The more so time trial. Right. So we'll see what happens there. Yeah, but, but definitely, yeah. I mean, finally his first win. You know, let's not forget last year at the beginning of the season, he gave away that stage in Tour of the Alps to Prudhomme and didn't win a race anymore. Except. Except The Tour de la Veneer where he won a stage and, or a few stages and the gc. But in the pros, this is his first win, but definitely not the last one. Man, he's in great shape. Looks like he has made a step forward again. Because this is the real. I mean these are, you know, if you're with Ayusu and Almeida and only these are the big names, you know, it's, it's. The next level is Pogacha and Jonas and Del Toro. You know, that's, that's it. There's nothing else close to this. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And it's true, like below Vindergaard. This is, this is them. This is the group. This was the first time that I really felt like, are we watching? So you have Pagacha and Jonas like in one generation and then you have these under the people hoping to be next. Juanyuso, Joelamed. Even though Ahmed is kind of the same age. Oscar Onley, Matthew Riccatello. I guess it was the first time I was like, oh man, are these guys going to get skipped like this? Pugach is going to retire and it's going to be Del Toro and Sechas and there's not going to be room for that middle generation.

[Johan Berniel]

It is very much possible, Spencer. It's very, it's very possible. Listen, today was definitely a demonstration of the class and the talent of Paul Seas on all levels. You know, like strength wise, race savvy. The way he finished that stage by taking the last corners, you know, closed, I mean, didn't close in, but he took the right line and yeah, I mean, definitely a big, big, big victory and well deserved for him.

[Spencer Martin]

And I'm not saying he's going to be better than Teddy Pagacha. I just want to, I want that out there. I will say at 19, he looks a lot more polished than Pagachar did. If you go back and watch those early Pagachar wins and successes, he kind of didn't know what he was doing. It looked like, yeah, I'll just ride away and win. Whoa. I won. Crazy like this looked really studied and tactically astute. Oh yeah. Pretty impressed, I think.

[Johan Berniel]

I think Paul said is already fine tuned. You know, he, he knows how to train, has his nutrition dialed in. You know, knows how to race. He's a big pro. You know, there's not much he has to learn except, you know, maybe learning his own body. But. And he's going to discover that over the years. But, but yeah, he's definitely on top of his Game already.

[Spencer Martin]

And we'll be back on Monday after the show after this race is over to talk about it. But who do you think, how do you think this tt tomorrow plays out? Who wins the overall?

[Johan Berniel]

Well, Almeida is not a bad time trialist and he's in the same time.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

Are you. So is a pretty good time.

[Spencer Martin]

Very good time. Trust. Yeah,

[Johan Berniel]

I would say, I mean we, we don't really know the strength of Seychas in the time trials but anyways, he's in great shape, so he's going to be up there

[Spencer Martin]

and then I

[Johan Berniel]

didn't see the next ones. Who, who else?

[Spencer Martin]

So the GC is. Are you. So Seychas tied on time? Amanda, seven seconds back. Oscar Onley 14 seconds bath back. Matthew Riccatello 16 seconds back. Okay.

[Johan Berniel]

And then sixth, seventh and eighth. And who's that?

[Spencer Martin]

You'd have like Danny Martinez and six these 32 seconds back. The only interesting one, the only one I would circle here. Kevin Vukl place, 39 seconds back. Very good time trialist.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, he's a good time trialist. Yeah. But anyway, it's not as long as usual, I think the time trial. So it's going to be 15, 20 seconds max, I think between those big guys, between the big favorites. I don't know, man. I'd say, I'd say, I would say, I would tempted be tempted to say Advantage Almeida, but he didn't do a great time trial last year in Algarve.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, that's a good memory. I do remember that.

[Johan Berniel]

But it was, it was an uphill finish. So I don't know what the time trial is tomorrow.

[Spencer Martin]

It's, it's, it's just like a flat time trial. Flat 19K.

[Johan Berniel]

How long is it?

[Spencer Martin]

19 kilometers long.

[Johan Berniel]

Oh, 19. Okay, okay. 19 is not short. It's not short.

[Spencer Martin]

No, it's. I was surprised and was Algarve the one where Jonas Vinegard won the overall and he got mowed down by Almeida on that uphill finish. Do you remember that?

[Johan Berniel]

Yes.

[Spencer Martin]

Yes.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Okay. Yeah. I thought, I thought we might see the Pulver, the pulverization of the group by Almeida. But maybe he needs to be behind for that to happen. He can't do that from the front. I just thought, I think this is the race to circle and to watch. Maybe I could be wrong, but I thought this was the real first super exciting, at least European race. I've seen Oscar onlay. We should shout out pretty good form for not knowing what team he was going to be on. Comes in late to. Ineos and looks like he hasn't skipped a beat. Back to the same form we saw early in 2025.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah, he's right in. He's right back into it. You know, I was surprised to see that also. I mean we didn't really know which, which form he was going to be in and we all know that, you know, if you have those problems and troubles in the off season, it gets to you a little bit. Didn't seem to affect Oscar only and yeah, he was, he was up there. So it's very promising for what's to come.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, I, I thought, I was impressed. He's been in Australia for a while, which does help because you, you're in the summer. You would think it wouldn't like, oh, they're all professionals. But something about being in the summer, being able to train. He's racing tour right the very end of 2025. So I look. Things are looking good for Onley coming in. He's maybe not going to slump. The Ruta del. We'll talk about Ruta del Sol. We'll take a quick ad break and then we'll get into the UA Tour. And the big question about what is going on with Firmco Evanopole but Ruta del Sol, Valta, Andalusia. Am I wrong in thinking, Johan, this used to be the premier race this time of year and now it feels.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, it's been, it's been a long time ago. Long time ago. Anyway, it's, it's a nice race. You know, it's. It's a very nice race. Usually. Usually always good weather. I mean, luckily they, they have it timed really right because it's been, it's been horrible weather in Andalusia until last week. You know, been flooding. I mean it's, there's been disasters in little villages. The weather seems to be nice from what I see on tv. Yeah, finally, you know, Christophe Laporte back to winning. That was, it was nice to see after. I mean I would say last year a really, really bad season, you know, was out for basically the whole season with a mystery virus. He came back at the end of the season, was in pretty good shape. So. So yeah, yesterday that was, that was a nice win for him. And then today, I don't know if you saw the stage but you know, the final between Ivan Romeo and Andreas Lecnt which was, was really nice from a breakaway so they made it to the finish. Ivan Romeo, Spanish champion on novistar wins the stage, takes the leader's jersey. I haven't seen what, you know, I haven't looked in detail what the other stages are. Still, there's. There's usually a hard stage, so this is definitely not the final gc. But. But yeah. And you know, there's some really good riders. You know, UAE is there with a strong team with Sivakov, who won the race last year. The Pitcock is there with a strong team. I think those are the two favorites. So, yeah, we'll see what that brings. Still three stages to go.

[Spencer Martin]

Second Movistar win of the year. Movistar off to a hot start. And Romeo was the rider who won before they won that race in Valenciana, that stage. That was the rider that had their last pro win, which was at the dofine of last year.

[Johan Berniel]

Very good rider. Glass rider. Glass rider.

[Spencer Martin]

Very good.

[Johan Berniel]

World champion time trial in 23. Yeah. In. In Zurich two years ago, right? Yeah, two years ago.

[Spencer Martin]

Yep. 2024 U. 23 world champion time trial. Yeah. Bradley Wiggins. Shouted him out in our Tour de France preview show. And then I thought that was a good little pick. Went on almost to win a stage and then crashed in the. It was like a rainy descent. Unclear to me why, like, this break had 2 minutes to go or 2 minutes with like 13k to go. And both of these guys are trucks. Like, what. What's happening behind? Like, it's not shocking to me. They stayed away, but I thought that was a little lackadaisical from the field. I didn't fully understand that.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, but I mean, those. I mean, first, initially there were three guys, I think, but anyway, those two. Those two guys, I mean, they're. They're machines, as you say. It was not going to be easy to reel them back in, as long as they work together. It was not a flat stage, so the peloton was not that big anymore. So a lot of teams didn't have many teammates.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

And so, yeah, because initially I think what happened was that they got away. And then in the peloton, there was a little bit of racing on a climb in the middle of the. Of the stage, but Visma dropped back because Laporte was dropped. Visma dropped back and brought him back. So as soon as they saw that Visma was bringing Laporte back, I think the peloton kind of sat up a little bit and just let the break go too far. And then finally, yeah, there was not enough manpower anymore left to bring them back at the end.

[Spencer Martin]

These guys are so strong at the point, like 10k to go, when you would expect you Know, that's usually when it starts to tick down. It was actually going up. Yeah, that. That's not easy to do that. That is a show of strength, that's for sure. Yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

I mean, usually, you know, Spencer, when. When a breakaway forms and you see there's four or five riders and you look at the names, man, you know, if you see there's three big, big, you know, big engines in there in the team cars, you know already. Oh, man, this is not going to be easy today to bring those guys back.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. When the two guys in front are stronger than anyone in the peloton.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Spencer Martin]

It's not great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sorry I took an awkward time drink there, but let's. Anything else on Andalucia before we take a break and get into the UA Tour?

[Johan Berniel]

No, I mean, I think this. The hardest stage is still to come, so. Yeah. Interesting Interesting stage race always was. Young Christian was. Was third today also was very, very strong sprint. He sprinted straight this time.

[Spencer Martin]

He's been getting a lot of. No, he got fourth. Alexander Aaron Burrow got third.

[Johan Berniel]

Oh, was that on Buddha? Okay, finally. Okay.

[Spencer Martin]

Who got beat by.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, I mean, to come anyway, Spencer to come back on that incident for the people who saw it, you know, like in. In the. The race in chain. So we had, we had Tim well into one, and then there was Spitcock and Jan. Kristen and Maxim Van Gils from Red Bull sprinting for second place. Pidcock kind of got away and then Jan Christian deviated a bit from his line and Von Gills was basically stuck between him and the barriers. Crashed unfortunately, fractured his pelvis, which is. Which is a complicated injury. You know, the. Christian got a lot of heat for it, you know, and, and he got disqualified, which I think I think was probably, probably the right decision, but it was not a deliberately move. You know, I mean, he just followed them. I mean, he did deviate, but basically Pitcock went first to the left. So instinctively you go. You go in that direction too. Van Gils happened to be, you know, next. Next to the back wheel of. Of Kristen and, and yeah, I think I didn't see any complaint of Van Gils publicly towards. Towards young Kristen. So that tells me that, you know, he unfortunately, you know, for him it sucks because listen, he crashed and, and has a big injury fracture. But. But I think, I think everybody's within the peloton sees that. Okay, this is not a deliberate move. Yes, it deserves a disqualification, but it was not with bad intentions, I think. What do you think?

[Spencer Martin]

I don't think so. I mean it does stink for Van Hills though because this guy had a bad 2025 and then was starting 2026. Started it with a win. That's never bad. So his, his results were first place, third place and then High End was his third race and he crashes out, breaks his pelvis.

[Johan Berniel]

That's.

[Spencer Martin]

That sucks for him.

[Johan Berniel]

Where did he. Where did he win?

[Spencer Martin]

Trofea Salines. It's in. It's a town and it's like one of the stages that the Challenge Mallorca. The time trial. Oh, the team time trial.

[Johan Berniel]

Oh, the team time. Okay, okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And then he got third on.

[Johan Berniel]

Third on.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, on one of the Evanopole days.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah. It's the climb towards. Towards the lighthouse. Yes.

[Spencer Martin]

What's it called?

[Johan Berniel]

No, it's.

[Spencer Martin]

This one was cup for Mentor.

[Johan Berniel]

Towards cup for Mentor. It's the first line. It's the cup. The. The road from. The road from Poienza to Cup Formentor and it's the first climb. That's where the finish was.

[Spencer Martin]

It's kind of a crazy stage. It started on then realize it started like outside of Palma and then snakes all the way over there through the mountains. Interesting. No, that's not. I. I don't know. Yeah. I don't. People lay off young Christian people. He's not. I didn't think it was intentional. Just thought it was bad luck.

[Johan Berniel]

Sure. For sure. Not. For sure.

[Progressive Insurance Announcer]

Not.

[Spencer Martin]

And then Alex Amber lost to Morg Morgado at the Champ Figuo Champions Classic.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Over the weekend. Pretty impressed because Alex Amber is not a slow guy and he just. It was two of them away and Morgato just said, I'm going to sprint from the front. I'm going to win this race. So it's pretty impressive to do.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah. Strong Portuguese rider in Portugal. Difficult to beat.

[Spencer Martin]

Second year in a row too that he won that. What do we think about Romeo? Is he going to win the overall here? Because I don't think there's a time trial and there's no summit finishes or there's a. Tomorrow is like a uphill sprint. Stage four is uphill sprint perhaps. And then stage five is a climb. There's two climbs. It's like a lap. So that's two of the same climb. 3K long at 6% descent into the finish.

[Johan Berniel]

I don't know if he's been in great form already since the whole. Since the start of the season. So he definitely has the condition to win it. And. And I think Movistar brought a pretty Strong team there too. So it's important. Yeah. You can win it. Definitely win it. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. And they can't. They. I hesitate to say they need it, but it's important for them to get a stage racing win.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. So let's take a quick break and then we'll. We'll talk UA Tour. We'll talk. We'll talk real business about remcoving a poll. What's going on there at the. On the other side.

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[Spencer Martin]

Okay, Johan. So UAE Tour, I guess technically the big race, the, the World Tour race happening this week. It is a big race and it, it has been predictive of success later in the year. I would say Algarve is maybe the better race, but we, we are four stages through this thing just to back people up. Stage one. Isaac del Toro wins the uphill sprint. Jonathan Milan crashed with a K to go, so wasn't involved. If you remember, last year, Tad Epica tried to break away here and win this uphill sprint. It did not work. Isaac del Toro stayed. He was sprinting. I timed it for 35 seconds and beat Cesspool. I mean, it was a hard stage because Antonio Tiberi was third, which tells us maybe he's in very good shape.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, the sprinters. The sprinters were dead. I mean, the sprinters were all dying. I mean, I mean, wouldn't have crashed Spencer. He wouldn't have won this.

[Spencer Martin]

No, no.

[Johan Berniel]

The way this print develops, I don't think Milan would have won it.

[Spencer Martin]

There was a point where modern, modern adventure was on the front and they're like, I don't know. I don't know if we should be the ones to be pegging this back. So that shows you everyone was. There wasn't a lot of organization, but I thought that was one of the most impressive efforts I've seen in a while. Like that he was out of the saddle he was out of the saddle, had to sit back down, got back out of the saddle. I mean, I would imagine his Watts for that 35 seconds were through the roof. And that is so hard to stay away from. I.

[Johan Berniel]

My son knew how it was. Was. I mean, it was. Was hard, but not. Not that imp. I mean, I think it was 1,100 and something watts for 35 seconds. 29 seconds.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, we gotta remember he's like 64 kilos. Yeah, he's like 10 kilos lighter than a Mads Pedersen.

[Johan Berniel]

Listen, the way he went, the way he went, it was like, okay, every he saw, he saw, he was sitting there, he said, okay, everybody's dying. I'm going. And he was gone.

[Spencer Martin]

I live at 1100 watts for 30 seconds.

[Johan Berniel]

Like, the guy, the guy, he's. He's a winner, you know, he knows how to win races, this guy, he has this killer instinct, you know? Yep.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, the timing was perfect, too. He saw it.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Saw the chance and went, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

That was an impressive start. Impressive start. And then the day after, we have Remco, of course, winning the time trial.

[Spencer Martin]

56 point something an hour. Yeah, he was like 56.1, basically, I think the fastest time trial of his career, I heard.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we all expected him to win, of course, but. And then, so we had. We had just starling only five seconds back.

[Spencer Martin]

So really good result for him.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah. You know, del Toro loses 40 something seconds. I mean, I don't think that result was actually a real reflection of. Of the difference because for some reason, I don't know why this is in. In the tour of uae, everybody can choose their time to start except the leader. So when Del Toro was off it, there was more wind. There was definitely more wind, more headwinds, because, I mean, he lost 30 something seconds in the first part and then only 10 seconds in the way back. On the way back. So there was more headwind. But anyway, 42 seconds, you would think, okay, know, it's. It's going to be hard. He had 10 seconds of bonification, so brought it back to 32. But you would think, you would think that Remco, the form he has shown already this year in. In Mallorca and in Valencia, that he would have been up there for the win. Maybe not winning the stage, but at least, you know, for the win in. In yesterday's stage. But, man, that climb was something else. That's a new climb. The last 6.7 kilometers were double digits. You know, I think 12 average and I mean, yeah, even a pool just didn't have it. You know, we could. We could clearly see. He initially, he looked okay, and then he blew up and lost two minutes, if I'm not mistaken.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, it might have been over two minutes. And we should say in the time trial, I mean, evenable is not a power writer. Like, he doesn't look. He doesn't put out massive watts because he's. He's not that heavy and he's really aero. He looked incredibly arrow. And he was. He was holding almost close to 500 watts for the whole time trial, which is a lot for anybody. A lot for Rimco Evanopole. So he's in shape. Stage three rolls around and yeah, unlike previous meltdowns on climbs, it was different for revenue because he was responding to these initial moves. Felix G went, Antonio Tiberry went. Looked fantastic, by the way, wins the stage. And Evanopole was with him. And then it's just the light switch turned out and he's grabbing his leg, he's cramping, which, you know, he could be cramping, but it's unclear to me why that's happening. The climb was brutal. It's. I mean, the stats on it's 13k long, 8% average, but the first half of it's not nearly 8%, and the last half is about 12%. So, yeah, very steep. And then to add weirdness to it, Del Toro, I don't know if you saw this. He was at the back at the beginning of the climb, and he looked like he was really struggling. I was thinking, wow, this guy. I gotta. I gotta trash my piece that I'm about to publish. This guy's. He's out. He's out the back. He's dropped. You know, like, Evan pulls up there with the leaders. He's nowhere near it. And then he starts Magnus back. That noted on the commentary, he said, well, he is passing people, which is weird for a rider that's dropped. And he just kind of slowly, like, was chugging the. The pedals over, was in a really low gear. And then before you know it, Evan pulls off the back. Del Toro's at the front, mowing down tibery like the gap was going from 45 seconds to 30 seconds. And then by the end, 15 seconds, Leonard Bennett felt third at 29 seconds. Yeah. And then Evan, a pole was two minutes back, 204 back. So he's out of the.

[Johan Berniel]

No, you know what, Spencer? I've seen this before from Del Toro. He's done that before. Like, start starting his own pace. And then in his interview after the stage, he actually said, you know, this is the first time I'm really in a position, like before the start of the race that I didn't, you know, that I'm the leader of the team, and the team expected a lot. So I didn't really know how to race this. But he definitely paced himself perfectly. I mean, I saw a stat somewhere in the last nine minutes, which is the last 2.7 kilometers. He did 470 watts average.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, and that's real. It's an RCS race, so they publish their real watts, so that's not an estimation.

[Johan Berniel]

And so that's 7.4 watts per kilo. So he knew what he was doing. You know, it was not like he was getting dropped. And then kind of all of a sudden started to feel better and could, you know, limit the losses. He knew what he was doing the moment he went to the front. You know, you could see he took his glasses off and. Yeah, focus, focus, focus. And he was. He was. He was on a mission.

[Spencer Martin]

He was flying in the last. Yeah, I mean, to put out. I mean, that's impressive, too. If you did a 10 minute effort at 470 watts, 7. 4 watts per kilo. That's. That's very good. But you gotta remember that's at the end of like a 30 minute climb. So, yeah, you're already fatigued when that clock is starting. Super impressive effort. I mean, and too, just the fact that he was standing like, oh, man, TB's up there. I just gotta stand and grind back. And he. He almost caught him. I would say, though, I think the revelation of this race for me is in turning with tb, this guy looks like he's going to win the overall. I mean, he looks incredible.

[Johan Berniel]

I don't think it's over. I don't think it's over yet. Spencer, is it 22 seconds now?

[Spencer Martin]

21 seconds. It's definitely not over. Yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

In theory, the Toros could still win, but it's going to be very difficult because Tiberi has been in great shape already. He was fourth in Valencia, and he's a class rider, you know, I mean, looking back to this guy, you know, in 2019, this rider was world champion time trial juniors and then went to the pros. You know, funny enough, such a good rider who has been top five already in Grand Tours, which I think he was top five in the Giro at one point, maybe last year.

[Spencer Martin]

It was the year that. That Pagachar won, I believe.

[Johan Berniel]

So.

[Spencer Martin]

Fifth.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

At the zero.

[Johan Berniel]

This. This is only his third win as a pro.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. Isn't that crazy?

[Johan Berniel]

No, actually, funny. I mean, funny stories. The guy was. The guy's actually most famous for killing a cat. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Not. Not great to be known for that.

[Johan Berniel]

No, but he's on fire, man. He's strong and yeah, the way he's, the way he's. His form is right now, it's not going to be easy to get him out of that leader's jersey.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. We should clarify too, this, the cat killing, if you don't know. He. He apparently had an air rifle, like a pellet gun, and, and, and shot the cat. I don't, I have not seen any statements on it. I don't know if he meant to do it. I.

[Johan Berniel]

So I will say some. Sometimes you can. It was in San Marino. So in San Marino, which is like a little country within Italy, right. Where I think actually Del Toro. You know what, him and Del Toro and who else? There's another writer. I don't remember.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, I think they all lived like, they roomed.

[Johan Berniel]

They live in the same building, actually.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

And so I think he was shooting at stuff and he killed a cat and it was the cat of one of the prime minister of the.

[Spencer Martin]

The guy who runs the country, San Marino.

[Johan Berniel]

And then. Yeah, he got fired over that, man. And Trek. Trek fired him over that. He went to Bahrain. And Yeah, I mean, I think the firing was. The firing was a bit over the top, I think.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, maybe you just go to like a sensitivity. You suspend him for a few months, he goes to a sensitivity training. That's probably what I would have done because they get rid of them and think they bring in Iuso for big, big money, huge fee, millions of euros to basically replace the same team anymore

[Johan Berniel]

since, you know, I mean, yeah, now the team is owned by a little different. But yeah, they definitely lost a really, really good rider there who's coming to, you know, I think. Is he still. Was he 24, 25.

[Spencer Martin]

24 years old. Wow.

[Johan Berniel]

Still young.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. Looks like he's taking a big step up. And the reason I, I mention this race at all is because you think, oh, this race doesn't matter. It's like an early season Middle east race. Right. Like, that's how our minds think of a lot of these races. It's not really true anymore because five. There's been seven editions of this race and five. Five of those seven winners went on to podium at the Tour de France later that year. So this race actually, if you win it it actually is quite predictive of how you're going to do later in the year. And then when we roll around to the Tour de France and we're talking about, you know, we're going to say, oh, Picacho is going to win. Jonas is going to get second. Who's going to get third. I would remember this name. I think this is someone that, that could podium at the Tour.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, he's definitely a solid rider. Very, very, I mean, big endurance. Yeah, I like him.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, it was super impressive. So the big question, I think is Del Toro. We were impressed by that. I want to see how he does. There's one more, the, there's one more climb. We don't have Jabel Jice this year. I, I know they had some problems there with flooding. We have Jabel Hafeet, Jell Hafeet now.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

On stage six, a little bit more mild, like 10k long, 11k long, really, at 7%. So a more mild climb. That's where the race will be decided. Del Toro could win. TB could win. Both would be worthy winners. Who will not win is Remco Evnopole, who came into this race as the heavy, heavy favorite. Looked fantastic in the time trial. So we know the form is there and then just caves on the climb. The reason I bring this up is because this is the fourth stage race in a row where this has happened. Because the fourth World Tour stage race, you go back to Roman D 2025 wins the time trial. Dropped on the summit finish, doesn't win the overall Dofine roast the time trial. Remember that? Everyone was saying, Pagatro is washed up. He's done. Remco's here. Oh, two days later he's dropped in the summit finish. Doesn't even finish on the podium of that race. Tour France 2025 wins the first week time trial and then dropped on this on otacom, passed in the time trial, leaves the race. This is now the fourth straight World Tour stage race where he's won the time trial. Dropped on a climb, has it has to be mental Johan, right? Because we physically know he's in good shape from these time trials. And then he's in. You said in our pre show the last World Tour stage race he won was UAE Tour 2023. So it's been a while and it shows regression. Like he's, he now he can't win the UE Tour.

[Johan Berniel]

There's definitely something there. I mean, I, I, you know what, I don't know what it is. And, and you know, like before, before I start to go into, you know, what I think, you know, let's not forget, and this is not the case this season, but let's not forget that Remco Evenepoel has had a trajectory with many ups and downs and a lot of them are due to injuries and crashes. He had big crashes already. You know, you say Ramandy, he won the time trial and, and then blew up. But he was, you know, it was his first stage race back after his.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, yeah, we wouldn't really think much of it at the time because it's like, well, he's coming back after his

[Johan Berniel]

accident with the postcard. But there is definitely something. I don't know what it is and I cannot find a reason. Spencer, because he looked in great shape in Valencia. You know, he wrote Tiberi off his wheel on Kumber Sol on a very steep climb, very steep climb, shorter. So I'm tempted to think that he is explosive, he has big power. But what I see is when it's steep and long, he has problems. And I said it before in another podcast, right, we think about Remco, about Tour de France and he himself obviously sees him as the contender and I think it's right to have that kind of ambition. After all, he was already on the podium of the Tour behind today. And Jonas, he already won the Vuelta. But, but I come back to what I said earlier on, you know, I mean, if you look at these seven big one week stage races, he hasn't won a single one of them. And he hasn't won that many GCs in stage races or at least not World Tour stage races. He's been second in Paris, he's been second in Tour of Catalonia. So, you know, it's hard to say he can't do it. He definitely has the potential to do it, but for some reason he hasn't done it yet. And with his palmares, with his potential, with his power and now obviously also with his experience after all those years, he should have had some of those wins in the bag already and he hasn't. So I have no explanation why it is. Maybe he doesn't have it either. But, but it's definitely, it's obvious that, you know, he's stronger in one day performances and, and some exploits like on a particular day than in a general classification over, over one week or over three weeks. And I mean it's, it sounds silly that I say that because, you know, he's won the Vuelta and he was third in the Tour, so he's done it already. It's just that I can't find that consistency in that level and I'm a bit puzzled. I mean, I can't find the reason why because, you know, 10 days ago he, he rode those guys off his wheel in the same guys.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, that's what's baffling. And looked, they looked like they didn't belong in the same race as him. We saw it though at the bronze appeal and Amstel Gold where he looks like a motorbike out there and then, and then he does it. And the thing that would concern me is it's going, he's going backwards. So these are, these are his World Tour stage race results from 2020 to 2023. 1st Tour Poland. 4th Bass Country 1st Vuelta Espana. 1st UAE Tour 2nd Catalunya. So this third at Tour de Suisse. These are his World Tour stage results post 2023. Second par 2024. It's pretty good. Third Tour de France 24. That's good. Fifth Roman D. Fourth Dofine. And then he's going to be out of the GC here. So he's, he's moving backwards in these stage races, which I don't understand. I mean, maybe it is something to do with the postal van crash and he's never quite recovered from that.

[Johan Berniel]

And, and the crash in the Basque country. Let's not forget. He was very, he was very affected there too.

[Spencer Martin]

And so that was just. So I get this straight in my head. That was 2024, bass country crash. He comes back, finishes third at the tour. Yeah, that off season hits a postal man before the 2025 season. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something to do with that.

[Johan Berniel]

It's looking for some explanations. But you know, and anyway, you know, maybe it was just a bad day yesterday, you know, he said he was cr. He had cramps, that, you know, he felt dehydrated. It is obviously the first time he's in the, in, in the heat this, this season. But you know, it's the same for the others. Right? Except

[Spencer Martin]

funny thing about the cramps is like, where's the pickle juice? You know, because Picacho gets cramps too. He just carries the pickle juice, drinks the pickle juice, seems to be fine. Like, I don't, I, I would maybe just copy what he does. I was. There was a pro talking about he's doing some new training. There's an off the record conversation, like some new training this year. And I'm thinking like, man, I would just do what UAE's doing, like go listen to what they do and do that.

[Johan Berniel]

Because that's, it's not mathematical, Spencer. You know, I mean, I can tell. Let me tell you what, whatever Pogacha does, training wise. No, almost nobody can do that.

[Spencer Martin]

No, that's nobody, That's a good point.

[Johan Berniel]

Nobody can train so hard and then have a strong enough body to recover from that, assimilate that training and get better from that training. Most, most people would just destroy themselves.

[Spencer Martin]

Very good point. Like even right now, if you put me, if all three of us went to a training camp, me, you, Lance Armstrong, I would just get worse because the training.

[Johan Berniel]

I could tell you one guy who would get better. Lance. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Like he would get better with the training.

[Johan Berniel]

Gets better. I mean, it's typical for a champion with a big engine. Even, even at, to this day. Lance is now in his 50s and I've seen him show up at events, you know, and not in great shape at the, at the beginning. After three days, the guy's already on a different level. It's, it's crazy how fast these guys improve with a little bit of training and where others, you know, just ride and ride themselves deeper and deeper into a hole.

[Spencer Martin]

Yes. Yeah. It is actually really shocking to see and Lance is like the ultimate example of that. He had some good because of that, but like even Seamus McGrath who is like a mountain bike world champion, I did a week long training camp with him when I was like really seriously training and I was just worse every day. And then Seamus could barely ride a bike the first day and then by the end he's dropping everybody. Like it's really shocking when you see it up close and you understand why the same guys tend to win all these races because they're just better. You say bigger engine. I mean, it's that simple. I don't quite know the physiology behind it, but that's what's happening. But in terms of Red Bull, where does this leave them? So Remco Evenepo was the big GC acquisition in the off season to an already pretty good GC team. What do they do here? Do they just kind of keep going forward and maybe they bring two GC guys to these races? So if Remco has a problem, they have someone else's backup. Is that what the plan is going to be?

[Johan Berniel]

I mean, I, I, I don't, at this moment, I don't think, I don't think with Remco there should be another GC rider. Because Remco is a natural leader. He wants to be the leader. I'm not sure that at this moment that would work. I think that's for later on for the Tour. Listen, let's not draw conclusions too quickly. It's an off day. We'll see how he is on Jebel Hafid. I expect him to be better. I expect him to be. Stay with those guys.

[Spencer Martin]

I wouldn't be shocked if he wins your bell.

[Johan Berniel]

Who feed. I don't know if he can drop them. But you know, if he attacks, he's not going to be as, as supervised as Del Toro and. And the Betty. The very. And Del Toro won't let each other go. Yeah. Could potentially profit from that. But no, I think Red Bull for the moment they just need to keep focusing and on. On, you know, on. Roglic hasn't started racing yet. Lipid started today. Not great. I think in Lagarve he was not. He was not in the front. I think he's somewhere around 15, 20th place if I'm not mistaken.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, yeah. We'd have to go back. I know there was a. Like my friend Keegan Swervel crashed. I don't know if he was. Yeah, crashed.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

But it's actually not. We're at a point in cycling where you see that it's kind of ridiculous. It's the first race of the season and he's off the pace. It's like I don't know if he can recover. He might be done.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah. Stick a fork in him. He can. He can recover for sure. Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

It's also not really a lip away. It's not really his specialty, that type of finish.

[Johan Berniel]

No, no.

[Spencer Martin]

He's only 29 seconds back. It's not like he's in the spirit world. But for the Tour they'll certainly bring two leaders. Correct Lipowitz.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, for sure. And then the Welta will be Roglich.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

The Giro's Pelizarri and.

[Johan Berniel]

And Henley.

[Spencer Martin]

Henley. Yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

So. So. And I mean. And the thing about Remco is, you know, he's going to be good and he's doing Liege. He's doing Flush Amo Gold Flush Liege. Like, you know, he's going to be good in those one day races. Like he. What's weird is as he's getting worse at stage races, he's getting better at one day races, which I don't fully understand.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And hang on, hang on a second.

[Johan Berniel]

I have, I have a guy here who's he's wanting to mention here, our star Bobby. Bobby's back. He wants to Be. He wants to be on camera.

[Spencer Martin]

This is going to help help the views. This should be the thumbnail on YouTube.

[Johan Berniel]

Our audience loves Bobby.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, they do. We get in trouble if we don't show him.

[Johan Berniel]

They asked me. They asked me for him to come on the show. So here he is. He's back.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, Jon, before we, before we go, quick, quick question for you about Visma. Lisa. By quiet start to the season, they win stage one, Ruta del Sol. Good win. Second win of the year. The only problem is UAE, their rival team has 11 wins so far this year. So they have 18% of the wins as their main rival. Probably not panic time yet. The thing that concerns me is Visma, their sponsor, their title sponsor, who they worked hard to get. Remember they used to have, it was Lotto, then it was Jumbo, and then Jumbo Visma comes in and kind of saves the day. This is like two years ago, three years ago at this point. Visma's going public. It's a Norwegian software company. Software's not been doing great with AI. Like, there's been a global cooling of software stocks. So now they're delaying the ipo, which is something you don't really want to see. And they're reevaluating their marketing spend. They're probably trying to cut expenses prior to the ipo. So they look. It looks better. So the financials look better. This. The. The quote on this is from. This is from a Cycling Weekly piece. The quote from Richard Pluga is, we're in a downward spiral as cycling. We like it or not. I think that's why for everyone, the urgency becomes bigger and bigger every day. That's not great to hear. And then we also hear that Visma is. Is look like reevaluating their commitment to the team and wanting to step back from the title sponsorship spot. So they probably won't leave them hanging. They're not just going to step away entirely. They want someone to come in and take over that title sponsorship slot. We went through their financials, the team's financials of this is like at the end of last year, at the end of 2025, they have a big budget, like 50 million euros or more. Can they find someone to come in and fill this? Like, what are the chances of that?

[Johan Berniel]

This is not going to be easy. But listen, I mean, if a team like Visma can't find a sponsor. No, yeah, they'll find a sponsor, Spencer. Maybe they'll have to scale back already. And I think, okay, now we've heard of it. We've heard about it now, but this is obviously not news that comes from one day to the other. Richard Plugger has known this for a while already, I think. And it's not a coincidence that expensive riders have left the team. If you look, Van Barle left, Ish Benot left, Olaf Coy left. And they. And I'm for sure for somebody else. I don't know who. I mean, another big rider and they haven't replaced them with no equal. No equal paid riders. So it could be. Of course, you know, I think they have to kind of fill up that hole, although that we spoke about a few months ago. But I do think that they have this wealthy Dutch entrepreneur as a backer who can then write a check, I think. But yeah, I mean, maybe they will have to operate on a smaller scale. I don't know. It's clear that for the. How fast things can change. Right. I mean, we're talking about Visma now and you know, in the pre show we talked about. Yeah. You know, they haven't won or they have to be concerned. Let's not forget, you know, this is a team that two years ago they won the three Grand Tours. Yeah, three. Three years ago they won the three Grand Tours and last year they won two Grand Tours and second in the Tour.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah.

[Johan Berniel]

You know, they're still, they're still one of the top teams, you know, so I wouldn't. I mean, what I think is they have, they have companies around them, in my opinion, who have the potential to either through their business relationships or through their own financial possibilities to step up and keep funding the team. Lisa Bike is just a name, a product of this big Pon company. Pon could sponsor this on their own.

[Spencer Martin]

And Pawn owns Cervelo. So it's the tie in.

[Johan Berniel]

They own and a lot of other brands.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah, like a lot. It's a huge Dutch conglomerate.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Big, big company. But you would say their vulnerability though is okay, so they get three podiums at Grand Tours last year, two wins. But two of those podiums were one guy. Jonas Vinegar. The third win, the third podium. One of the wins was Simon Yates, who's no longer with the team. That's another rider who's out the door. Utterbrook's out the door. They've not. And they've not been active. Think of these big bidding wars. Derek G. Oscar on the Wanna use over I'm Covenant Pole.

[Johan Berniel]

They're.

[Spencer Martin]

They're nowhere in these deals.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

And I don't. And on one level, I don't hate It. It's like, well, that feels like an overheated market to me. Maybe that's fine to sit it out, but a lot of this, a lot of their strategy looks like right now it's like, hey, Matthew Brennan, you want to go win some races? It's just like, what. The depth here looks a little thin. They do have Mato Jorgensen. Yis Vinard will presumably be racing at some point, while Bernard. These are good riders, and they have brought in like, they. They've made good targeted signings. It's just not big money. Probably because they know that they have to trim costs at some point.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. They've been looking. They've been. They've. They've not gone crazy. They've been calculating and they've done their homework properly to not overspent. I personally think that some of these teaming, namely name to name two, I think ineos, and in. Well, three actually. Ineos, Red Bull and. And Little Trek, they spent some crazy money, which is actually not. Yeah, I mean, it was. I think it was more emotional spending than. Than. Than something else. Because. Because, you know, those amounts don't really make sense in cycling. It's also because, you know, obviously they have backers behind who don't really care if it's 2 million more or 5 million more or 7 million more.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, yeah. And if you and I are in a room with Red Bull executives and they say, hey, we want to be the. We're Red Bull. We want to be the best team. Who's the best writers? Who should we sign? Picacho. He's not available. Vinegar's. He's not available. It's like no one's available except a few of them. So if you need to make a really big name signing, you don't have a lot of options.

[Johan Berniel]

Okay, Spencer. But you know, okay, it's true. You look, okay, who's available? But then the money needs to be accordingly. I mean, personally, I. I think. I think 10 million for Juana. You so is crazy.

[Spencer Martin]

I do not understand that.

[Johan Berniel]

Whatever it is, 7 million euros for Remco is crazy. I think 6 million for Oscar only is crazy. That this is. These are the buyouts. Right.

[Spencer Martin]

It's not even the salary.

[Johan Berniel]

Including the salaries.

[Spencer Martin]

Yeah. Especially when you look at Tibery. That guy was free.

[Johan Berniel]

But then again, then again, you know, I mean, you compare this to football, for example, soccer here in. In Spain, for example, or in Europe. I mean, it. Peanuts, you know, well, those.

[Spencer Martin]

Those teams make a lot of money. They drive Revenue from those signings.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah, exactly.

[Spencer Martin]

But you know, Visma's got Louis Barre, so they got nothing to worry about the signing of the season right there. This guy, he was what, fifth at Amstel Gold? I actually do love Louis, but they, they make good signings. I do think some of those were a little kooky. I'm thinking of Matthew Ricatello. He was in that front group today. He's. Was he the only one not signed for a multi million dollar transfer fee? He was a free transfer from. Is this contract ran out at Israel. Yeah, yeah. So I, I do think Visma could be using a little bit more targeting shopping technique than perhaps. I still don't understand the. The little track Juan signing that.

[Johan Berniel]

He's a good writer, but it's, it's. It's. I don't know. The 10 million, that's just crazy.

[Spencer Martin]

You have to win the Tour or else everything is a disappointment basically at that amount of money.

[Johan Berniel]

Yeah.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, Johan, do you have anything else? We'll be back on Monday to talk about how these races wrap up. Yeah, maybe Remcovenible comes back and wins the UA Tour. We have to take everything back on Monday. But anything else before we take off,

[Johan Berniel]

I'm gonna happen Spencer, I don't think so. Yeah, no, that's it for me.

[Spencer Martin]

All right.

[Johan Berniel]

Well, Bobby, do you have something else to say? Are you going to be back on Monday? On Monday we're going to be reporting from the Costa Blanca and Bobby's going to be there too, so.

[Spencer Martin]

Oh, nice.

[Johan Berniel]

Maybe he's calling on the show again.

[Spencer Martin]

Bobby, he's going to love. He's going to love Benidorm. Oh, no, no, that's not where my favorite town, Benidorm. Bobby. Bobby's going to love it. A lot of old people to pet him.

[Johan Berniel]

My son is going to stay in Benidorm with his team. But I'm not staying in Benidorm.

[Spencer Martin]

That's probably a good.

[Johan Berniel]

Probably staying in beautiful Benisa.

[Spencer Martin]

Well, thank you, Johan, and we'll talk soon.

[Johan Berniel]

Okay, thanks. Bye.