B (3:17)

Yeah, I mean I didn't watch it live of course I watched the replay. Well, I mean Sam Watson winning the prologue I think you know it's, it's quite unpredictable in this field. You know it's, it's the first race of the season they there. I mean there's a consensus amongst all the teams that I mean it's such a far travel so no time trial bikes and Sam Watson's explosive writer. So I thought that that was a great win. Not a surprise in my opinion. I mean the real, I mean there's also not real prologue specialists if, if these guys still exist. I don't know if this, if they kind of.

A (3:56)

Sam Watson, remember two of Romandy shows up, he finds out like the night before, he's doing the race four minute effort and he wins that prologue too.

B (4:04)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so yeah, and then Anders Lund winning the, the first stage, the sprint, that was, I mean, I'm not gonna say a surprise to me it was, I mean it's, it's somebody, I mean it's one that flew completely under the radar. I mean I had no idea he was on decathlon.

A (4:22)

I had no idea either.

B (4:25)

But great win for you know and great win for that team. Great lead out also was, I mean he beat, he beat Wellsford and Brennan I think. Right? Yeah.

A (4:38)

Which super impressive second place there from Brennan and not really a pure sprinter. And this is like, this is, this is for the biggest of the the big sprinters size wise and he gets second there. That's impressive.

B (4:49)

Yeah. And then yeah, I mean you know the key stage which is now finally going to be the decisive stage anyway. Uh, I mean it was already decided with that kind of gap, you know when it vine and Narvaez went away on Corkscrew climb and finished with almost a minute 58 seconds I think. So obviously in two down under that's decisive and you know, with the level they've shown on stage two and we could talk about it now, I mean we just got news that tomorrow's stage is altered, that there's no Wilunga Hill in the, in this stage. Were they gonna do it two times or three times? I don't remember now.

A (5:36)

I think it was three times.

B (5:38)

Yeah, no, I, I, I, I seem to remember it was two times normally, but it now it looked like they were gonna do it three times. There are reports, I mean it's extremely hot, up to 40 degrees in Adelaide and I've seen reports that there was a quite windy also. So very hot, dry, windy. I don't know if you know if the risk of fires are true or not, but we got the news that they took out Wilunga Hill out of the course. So it's not going to be a decisive stage. So two run under is decided. Unless there's something, you know, an accident or mechanical that happens. But, but yeah, I mean listen, these guys, these two UAE guys were above everybody else. I, I did watch the, the climb and it was impressive that first of all they took control of the whole stage. They, they reeled in the breakaway. Then Adam Yates set a pace with, with Jay vine on the wheel and everybody else was on the limit. And the only guy, when Jay vine opened the gas, the only guy who could bridge up was Narvaj who is super explosive. Won the race last year but was on the limit until basically the last few kilometers, couldn't take a single pull. Yeah, and, and I think, you know, I think that difference in level is kind of what we should expect. I think Jayvine, obviously high quality rider, won stages in grand tours, one, you know, the mountain jersey in the Vuelta and is a great climber. Plus he's Australian, it's his home race. And I think Spencer, what we need to you know, take away from this is that the guys who are usually at the service of Tadepogachar have to take the opportunity when they, it gets presented to them and Tour down under is one of those great opportunities. So I think Jay vine prepared this race to perfection. Already won the, the Australian championships time trial also, if I'm not mistaken.

A (7:55)

Yeah, yeah.

B (7:57)

Which you know, which is usually hard fought title. You know, there's, there's a lot of good time trials, the time trial list in Australia. So I'm not surprised. I'm, you know, I think Jay vine is probably the, the highest quality rider in this field or at least of all the top GC contenders. The Best prepared. You could argue that Ben o' Connor is high quality rider. He is, you know, podiums in ground tours. But I don't think this is the main objective of Ben o' Connor and so, and especially, you know, those kind of climbs. 2, 3, 4 kilometers. That's like Jay vine or written all over it. But yeah, I mean, it was, it was, it was an impressive display of, of dominance of Team uae. And I can only imagine the, the, the, the morale of the rivals and the rival teams, you know, like, hey, what, I mean, here we go again. You know, we, they pick it up where they left it last year and they, they, we just started the season. They already have four victories.

A (9:08)

Team uae, yeah, it's, we, we're about four days into the season, they have four victories.

B (9:14)

It's, I mean, two of them is, is Del Toro winning the nationals time trial and road.

A (9:20)

But yeah, because that technically counted as 2026. Even though it happened in 2025.

B (9:25)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (9:28)

Well, so, yeah, Jayvine winning, not that shocking. I, I would say though, I, the thing that really blew me away was Ja vine attacks and you could see it coming. You know, Adam Yates is on the front. I was a little surprised there wasn't more of a battle for the wheels because Jonathan Narvaez moves up. He knows what's coming. Jayvine attacks. And that bridge from Narvaez, that's bold. I mean, normally when you have a teammate away, you're in a group, you probably know that is risky because he could have pulled someone with him and no one could even follow Narvaez. And then Narvaez gets up there and he, you're right, he was on the limit and that's a climb that suits him. He's a very good rider and he was really, really struggling. That tells you how strong Jay vine was. You know, we were throwing some numbers around before the show started. They have these, you know, people, very smart people on Twitter will put out numbers that they, they normalize them to, I believe, 70 kilos plus the weight of the bike. So it's a little bit higher, like corks. The whole corkscrew climb about 12 minutes was 7.3 watts per kilo, 7.8 for the steep, 6 minute steep part. That just in layman's terms is about. I, I did my own calculation. That's like 530 watts for six minutes on the steep part. About 500 watts for the whole climb at 12 minutes. That's not easy to follow. I. But Johan, were you surprised by. So those Two guys get away. That's a bad situation if you're a rival and then there's this group behind. They're, you know, they're doing the tough guy. Like now I'm ready to bridge. Now I'm going to attack. They're all attacking each other. Of course, Adam Yates is sitting on the back. None of this is going to work. Should they have seen this coming or there's just nothing they could have done?

B (11:05)

There's nothing they could do. Spencer, I saw an interview of. What's the guy? It's another Australian. I don't know if he's Australian or New Zealand. What's the name? Harry Sweeney.

A (11:16)

Harry Sweeney, yeah.

B (11:17)

Very good. Right, he. Is he Australian? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He, he gave an interview and he said he was up there. I mean he was in that second group, right. He was up there on the climb and when he. They could only watch them take off. He said the moment Jay vine accelerated, he was doing 600 watts. What else do you want to do? You know, there's nothing.

A (11:44)

He said he thought his power meter was broken.

B (11:46)

Sweeney would do.

A (11:47)

Numbers were so hot. Yeah, yeah.

B (11:49)

I mean he's a bigger guy. You know, he's, he's obviously he's heavier than Narweis and Jay vine, but, but still, I mean, I don't know, he's probably not more than 70 kilos. So. So yeah, I mean you just, you just sit there, you're on your limit and all you can do is. Okay. Watch them disappear in the distance. Listen, at the end of the day, I don't think we should be surprised. You know, it is the number one team in the world. They do hire the best riders. They train like crazy all year round in the way. I mean, we've seen them, Spencer. Seen them. You've been at their training camp. Yeah, we've seen them train. It's full gas all the time. And especially the guys who have their planning and their own ambitions in the beginning of the season are super well prepared. I think it's, it's logic has been respected. You know, we have in my opinion the strongest rider in this tour down underfield in Jay vine and last year's winner, Jonathan Narweis. I mean there shouldn't be anybody surprised that this happened.

A (12:52)

You know what's funny about the tour on under. In years past, let's say a decade ago, I would have said what a mistake for Jay vine to being be this strong early, too early. But you look at the last few years, as you said, Jonathan Narvaez wins. He had a great year. Javier Romo gets second great year. Oscar Onley fourth. He had a great year. Year before Stephen Williams wins, he's has a great year. Narvaez, del Toro, Onley, all those guys had really good 2024s. Like, this is not. How do you explain that? Why did it used to be bad to be so strong at the Tour down Under and now it feels like it's indicative of someone that's about to have a good year.

B (13:29)

I mean, listen, I mean, if we see the intensity. Cycling has changed so much. You know, like the way they train in the off season now. It's, it's, it's just, I mean, you can't compare with. And you can't compare it especially with cycling from the, you know, the, the 90s and the early 2000s, but not even from 10 years ago. When I look at the guys, I mean, follow a few guys on Strava the other day I saw Paul Seychas training camp there in on the Costa Blanca. 250km, 8 hours on the bike. You know, usually you would think, hey, are they crazy? Why are they doing this? You know, why, why is this necessary? Yeah, but they are always at such a high level and I think, you know, the way everything is monitored now, you can. Actually, the only thing that in my opinion is, is a risk is that you train so much and that you're always on top and you get sick. That's the only thing. But a dip in the, in the, in the curve of the condition, we don't see that anymore. Pair that with the fact that, you know, they, they don't race that much. They do very little races. They, they that nowadays an athlete is able to train at a higher intensity than a race would be normally, you know, a preparation race, Tour down Under, for example. It's an easy race for these guys. It's short, it's, it is fast. True. But it's easy compared to the workload they're doing in their training rides.

A (15:11)

Yeah, and in the like Paul say sh. Doing big rides. You might see that on Strava and think, oh, it's like winter base miles. No, they're doing these at. The intensity is really high. As high as, almost as high as this race. Probably they're probably training less hard at the Tour down Under than they would at their training camp, at least volume wise.

B (15:31)

Oh, for sure. There's probably about it. Yeah, yeah.

A (15:34)

They might be doing extra rides after the stage.

B (15:38)

It's not, I don't think it's that recommended either, you know, you just see. I think you should see it as a few, you know, short intensive training sessions. You know, the speeds are high at dude and under, it's 48, 49 kilometers.

A (15:50)

Per hour and yeah, on the heat. One interesting thing about a couple interesting things. Well, I mean it fundamentally changes the race because today was Wanga Hill, not going to happen tomorrow, whatever, whatever. I never quite know what day it is during the tour, but the next stage, stage four was going to be Wanga Hill. I love Walonga Hill. That's my favorite day of the year. I'm sad it's not happening. But that was, you know, if jayvine was going to be challenged, that was it. But I found a profile, the revised profile and it's, it looked like it's kind of an uphill sprint finish. I wonder if that. Because Naras is six seconds back. But if Naras wins the stage, is it possible he ties or overtakes Jay vine if Jayvine doesn't get in the top three because of time bonuses. I'm curious to see that. But they moved the, the startup an hour to 10am you don't see that that often. I do think that's a good idea. A lot of times when these for.

B (16:48)

The heat, I think it's great.

A (16:50)

Yeah.

B (16:52)

You know, I mean the stages are going to be what, two and a half hours, three hours.

A (16:56)

That'd be a three hour stage max. So you finish at one. Yeah, yeah.

B (17:00)

I mean it's gonna be hot at one o' clock, but you know, it's better than having to race between 12 and 3. Yeah.

A (17:06)

If this is the Vuelta, they'd be like, now we're gonna start it at 2. Hottest part of the day. He'll finish right before dinner. Everyone will have dinner at midnight. So this, I actually thought this was. Oh, it's like this is how the UCI extreme weather protocol is supposed to work. They've made some sensible decisions here.

B (17:23)

Yeah, no, I think, I think, you know, if it's really 40 degrees moving up the time is, is a great decision then you know, we have these reports of, you know, risk of wildfire. So it's, of course it's a pity for the cycling fans. You know, everybody wants to see Wilunga Hill. It's, it's become, you know, a benchmark, the trademark basically of the, of the Tour down under. Right. And then, you know, we always compare the times over the years over the last 10, 15 years. Of course they get faster and faster, but yeah, now it's not going to be there so it's not going to change anything in the, in the gc. I think, you know, the dominance of those two guys have been, has been shown. So if it would have been Woolonga Hill would have been more of the same. It's, it's Belonga Hill can be more of a tactical finish at least in the past. You know, if you go too early you could pay for it. But you know, the way, the way this, this was set up, I mean I think normally it would have been on Villunga Hill. I mean it could have been interesting for, you know, deciding who, who of the 2 wins the GC because if it's something, I think the chances of Narweis were really big to win in the sprint because you know he can't just, I mean he could stay behind J Vine and not try to win the stage. But you know, you want to win the stage so you want to try to win the stage also. But I do think however that there's a general consensus within UAE that Jay vine has to win this race, should win this race. It's, you know, I think it makes a lot of sense.

A (19:09)

Well, yeah, Narvaez could have, he could have won that stage. On stage two would have been a bit of a scumbag move to sit on and out sprint it. But he clearly gave it to him. They want him to win. It's important for, I imagine important for Australia to finally take. I think the last Australian to win this race was Jay vine in 2023. Not mistaken but Jay vine, great talent, big. Just to give you a sense of the domination we're seeing here. So first place is Vine. This is after, not, not even after the Walonga Hill stage which is usually the big time gap stage now by a second 6 seconds. Mar Schmid is third at 105 back. Here's the time gap between the winner in 10th place in the last few years. 10th place overall. 47 seconds last year. 50 seconds 2024 13-201-23. 54 seconds 2020, 40 seconds 2019, 24 seconds in 2018 and it's 105 back to third place currently. That's how much better Jay vine is than the rest of this field. With this information, Johan and you just said he's, he's time trial national champion of a very good time trialing country. Jayvine's 30 is, is like, is he going to get more chances in bigger stage races or is this, is this kind of the finished Product Jayvine wins stages at will at the Giro and the Vuelta, wins the Tour Down Under. Maybe challenges at a Roman D sometimes or is it time to maybe make a change for him?

B (20:40)

Didn't he win Ramandy last year?

A (20:42)

I think he did not win Roman. Hold on one second. I thought he got beat by Almeida. I couldn't.

B (20:49)

Draw. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, I think this is J Vine top. You know, he sees his opportunities when, when he gets them to be the leader. There are no guarantees. He's never finished on the podium of a Grand Tour. Never finished on the top, in the top five. I would think outside of the top of my head, I'm going to guess that he had, he had certain chances already. But the thing is within UAE there are always riders that are just a tiny bit better who have already been podium riders in Grand Tour. So I think this is great for Jayvine. He can rival with the best in the one week races, which is already not easy. And then in Grand Tours normally on uae, he will always have a leader that he has to be at the service of and then has the opportunities to win, win stages. I mean it's, I think it's a great situation for him.

A (21:54)

I, I agree. I, yeah, I, I agree. I think he should stay. I think this is a great situation.

B (21:59)

But he's gonna stay. Don't worry. He's gonna stay. He knows it's good there.

A (22:03)

But to argue, I, I do think, I do think he does. And I, having spent time around the team, it's not an overly, it doesn't feel overly anal retentive. It's, it is not relaxed. But there's a levity there perhaps that there wouldn't be in another team. But. So Jay vine is this good? Very good. He's up here. So someone like Ben o' Connor probably making a lot of money as a team leader for J. Colula might not be as good as Jay Vine. Should a team get real, like, what would Jay vine be worth in the open market as a GC leader? And do you think he's making that at uae?

B (22:40)

He's not, probably not making that at uae. The question is also, you know, and I don't know the answer. I don't know Jay vine personally. Is Jay Vine a personality who can deal with the pressure of the leadership?

A (22:57)

Does he want a good question? Right?

B (22:59)

I mean, if, I mean logically logic would say, well, okay, Jayco Australian team, you know, they have Ben o' Connor as their leader. Okay, fine, you know, he, he can do well, sometimes. Sometimes he doesn't. Would it not be great to go after a guy like Jay vine to be the co leader? You know, there's. There is place for two GC riders on a team like Jayco. That would be the logical move, right? I mean, if you have this great Australian writer, you want to have him on your team. If you're an Australian team, I'm going to guess that there has been attempts already to get Jay vine from J Cola to. To get him to the team. Whatever they pay to Ben o', Connor, I would say Jay vine is worth.

A (23:50)

That same value and we're probably talking 1 1/2 to 2 million euros.

B (23:55)

I think it's north of 2 to.

A (23:57)

More north of 2. That's a lot of money.

B (24:00)

I mean, I.

A (24:01)

You must be right. I mean, Jayvine must be happy because you're right, he must. This offer must have been made and we have to assume he's turned it down because he's still there. Here's my next question. Is it good for the sport that Jay Vines on uae, if he's on a team that's not uae, he goes to the Giro, he goes to the Vuelta, he's actually fighting for the gc. Does that make it more exciting racing?

B (24:22)

Well, I mean, the question is, can he fight for gc? You know? Yeah, well, yeah, the thing is, what other team can a rider like Jay vine go to? Okay, he could, you could say, you know what, he could go back to office in opposing Premier Tech now, you know, they don't have a GC leader. He comes from there, great team. You know, he. Is he going to deliver with all the pressure of the team on his shoulders, is he going to deliver a top five? I would say, you know, the top five candidates for a Grand Tour. Right. We're not going to talk about podium because he's not shown that yet. And then I. It's one of those riders, Spencer, he's a great rider. Super, you know, super good rider. But he may be ambitious for a podium, but most likely he's not going to be on it. And then the question is, are teams really interested in a rider like that to really invest heavily to try. It's not a project anymore. He's 30 years old, you know, if he would be younger. So you can say, okay, we're still going to discover his potential or the ceiling of his potential? I think with Jay vine right now, I think that's. Jay vine is at his top. He's in a great team, obviously feels great there. I Don't see any reason for him to, to, to look or consider anything.

A (25:43)

Else we say with teams to be interested. But team. Teams were just tripping over themselves to pay millions of dollars and transfer millions of euros in transfer fees for Derek G. So, yeah, I mean, not that.

B (25:56)

Much younger if my information is correct. I mean it's still a considerable amount of money, but it's not like it's not Ayuso money or which is 10 million or Oscar only, which is reportedly 6 million. The Transfer Summit, Derek G is reportedly 1.2 million. It's a lot better than the 30 million that Sylvan Adams was claiming. So, you know, it is an investment. Of course, you know, you, if probably signs two or three years, you can spread it over those three years. Makes it 400,000 a year. With the budgets that these teams like Little Trek has, you can say, okay, you know it is, you can justify it. Right. A writer like Jay vine would cost a lot more to get him out of his contract. Yeah.

A (26:49)

Because he's making a lot of money and that I just. With Jayvine, the thing I cannot get past is. And maybe don't tell him, just sign him and be like, hey, we want you to win stages. You should try to win every stage. Don't even tell him he's going for GC and I'll do fine. I mean, he has a style. He just puts his head down. He just has this. Puts his head down and goes. And he's sitting, must be sitting 500 watts for as long as he wants on these climbs. It's unbelievable.

B (27:12)

I was looking, I was watching, I was watching him, Spencer, you know, so he basically did all of the pulling. You know, you could see in the body language of Jonathan Narvaj that he, he was hanging on to be. Whether he wanted it or not, he could not take a pole. He could. I think Jonathan started pulling when the road went downwards a little bit other than.

A (27:34)

Yeah, he liked the momentum of the road and arrow position took him forward.

B (27:38)

Yeah, but man, I was surprised to see that J. I mean, I mean, luckily for the, the, the rivals, but man, he's not very arrow on the bike, sits up really high. I was, you know, I was thinking, man, if, if you go a little bit more arrow, you even go faster.

A (27:55)

Right off the front of the Tour de France. Yeah. If you forgot, you're saying, hey, you should set up higher. But my five year old son was noticing the same thing.

B (28:01)

He was like, oh, really?

A (28:02)

He's like, why is that guy so on Arrow?

B (28:05)

You're teaching him early. You're teaching him early.

A (28:07)

It's becoming a. He's this rim. Like, he is obsessed with Remco in his position. He's like, on the trainer now every day, like, trying to get as air as possible.

B (28:16)

Are you getting him on the trainer?

A (28:20)

He comes home from school and he insists on riding his trainer for 45 minutes every day.

B (28:24)

Oh, wow.

A (28:25)

Well, he don't know.

B (28:26)

He's what, five years old?

A (28:28)

Five years old. No one tell him this, but I ride Zwift and he thinks that he's riding on Zwift. Okay, yeah, but I have to try to match his cadence. Don't tell him that he's not the one riding. But, yeah, it's unbelievable how good at time trialing and climbing he is and is not. I don't know if I've ever seen this, a writer that good at the two foundations of GC writing that is not a serious GC candidate.

B (28:55)

Well, let's not forget, Spencer. I mean, you know, we haven't talked about this. I hope it doesn't repeat itself, but Jay vine has had a lot of crashes.

A (29:06)

That's true. Yeah.

B (29:07)

You know, people say. People say, yeah, you know, he's. He's not able to ride in the peloton. And I think that story is. Is not true. It's. It's. There's no foundation to it. You know, Jay vine has this reputation because he won the Zwift Academy, that. And then he got the contract on Alpecin, that he was a Zwift rider. He was not a Zwift rider. He was a cyclist in Australia. He did road races, happened to win the Zwift Academy, you know, but he was not a pure Zwift rider. I think that's. We need to make sure that that's. That story is put straight. But, I mean, he did came relatively late to the, you know, European peloton, I would say. And he. I think he struggles still with positioning and with, you know, maneuvering in the peloton. You know, if at 30 years old you haven't learned it, you're probably never going to learn it. But, hey, you know, he's still a good enough rider and has enough power to win bike races. So, you know, pretty good.

A (30:11)

How old was Primus Raglich when he won his first Grand Tour? Would have been the 2019 Volta.

B (30:19)

Was that his first Grand Tour when.

A (30:23)

I mean, won the Giro one time in 2023, and he's only won the Vuelta and the Giro, right?

B (30:29)

Yeah, yeah.

A (30:30)

So he was 30 years old when he won his first.

B (30:33)

Yeah.

A (30:34)

Grand Tour. I actually kind of. They kind of remind me of each other a little bit.

B (30:38)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (30:39)

Because Roglich was the same way. I couldn't believe how I was like, man, I've never seen someone this good at time trialing and climbing who's not a GC rider.

B (30:47)

Primos had already been fourth in the G in the Tour before that.

A (30:52)

Yeah. He did one year of the Tour where he was just hunting stages and he won that stage and then he. We got like 38th overall. Then he comes back. Well, I don't know. Actually he was fourth. Yeah. Fourth in 2018.

B (31:04)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (31:08)

Fourth in 2018 when Garrett Thomas wins. Interesting. And then 2019. Do you remember who got fourth at the 2019 Tour de France? It's going to blow your mind.

B (31:21)

Julian La Philippe.

A (31:23)

Now he got fifth. Oh, Emmanuel Bookman.

B (31:27)

Wow.

A (31:28)

Okay.

B (31:28)

I would not have guessed that.

A (31:30)

No, no. The forgotten force they call it.

B (31:33)

That guy disappeared too.

A (31:35)

Exactly. Yeah. What planet did he go?

B (31:37)

He's on confidence. No. Now.

A (31:38)

I think so. Yeah. I've heard sometimes in Ralph Fodig would give interviews, I'd be thinking, do you know that the, the mic is on right now? He said something. He was like, yeah, I know he's gone. Like he's welcome to swing by if he needs a Red Bull by the team bus, but you know, he's on another team now. This is the least sad I've ever heard.

B (32:01)

Say the same because he can go to ask for Red Bull because he's not there anymore.

A (32:06)

Yeah, yeah. I like, I like all that.

B (32:10)

He's back at Canyon women's team.

A (32:15)

Yeah, I saw that. Yeah.

B (32:17)

Yeah.

A (32:18)

That is crazy. Jay vine was on Alpine. That, that is.

B (32:21)

They.

A (32:22)

They just immediately snuffed out. This is not a good fit for us. We don't.

B (32:26)

Well, he, he did leave with a contract still in place.

A (32:31)

And do you think they just thought, well, we're gonna, he's gonna cost a lot of money and we. It doesn't really fit our one day goals.

B (32:38)

I don't know. I mean they probably, I mean, you know, there are buyouts also that we don't hear of, you know.

A (32:43)

Yeah, that's a good point.

B (32:45)

I'm. I'm thinking, I mean knowing, knowing the, the, the brothers Rutof, they will probably have done business there and you know, good for them. It makes sense, you know, and reinvested.

A (32:58)

It back into the, the stage hunting and one day empire they have. Let's take a Quick break Johan, and then we'll come back and talk about UAE's potential new rival, the Ineos Grenadiers. Are they back? As well as some questions everybody. This episode is brought to you by Caldera Lab. And what makes Caldera Lab special is they make high performance skin care designs specifically for men. You might think, why do men need their own skin care? Well, get this. I didn't know this before this. Men's skin is 25 thicker, oilier and ages differently from women's. Which means men need clean formulas engineered specifically for their biology. Their easy to follow three step regimen is powered by clean clinically tested ingredients and breakthrough patent pending technology. And it delivers visible results. The steps are very easy. Step one the Clean Slate. It's a cleanser. Cleans dirt, oil, sweat and buildup. Very easy. Comes in a great glass bottle. You feel fantastic after using it. Step two the great is their serum. Their hero product uses advanced renewal technology to reduce wrinkles, firm skin up and improve elasticity. In step three, the Hydro Layer. The moisturizer. My favorite. It's a lightweight, non greasy, greasy moisturizer. Locks in moisture all day and gives you a healthier, more energized look. And what pushed me to try Catalab is the fact that I needed the schedule. I need this structure. I just didn't realize it before I started using it. And their three step routine is clean, simple and actually works. As I said, I love the Hydro Layer. Can't get enough of that moisturizer. I might have a low level addiction to it. So get a small habit with big results. Go to caldera lab.com the move and use code the move for 20% off your first order. That's caldera lab.com the Move for 20% off your first order everybody. This episode is brought to you by HIMS. You've got places to be. Sitting in a waiting room waiting for hair loss treatment is not one of them. HIMS makes expert care accessible on your schedule so you can skip the line and focus on feeling like yourself again. HIMS offers convenient access to a range of prescription hair loss treatments with ingredients that work, including chews, oral medications, serums and sprays. HIMS can help since Dr. Trusted ingredients like finasteride and minoxidil can stop further hair loss and regrow hair in as little as three to six months. And HIMS thinks you shouldn't have to go out of your way to feel like yourself, which is why they bring expert care straight to you. With 100% online access to personalized treatment plans that put your goals first. No hidden fees, no surprise costs, just real personalized care on your schedule. Think of HIMS as your digital front door that gets you back to your old self with simple 100 online access to trusted treatments for real health concerns all in one place. So for simple online access to personalized and affordable care for hair loss, ED, weight loss and more, visit HIMSS.comTheMove that's HIMS HIMS H I M S.comTheMove for your free online visit again HIMSS.comTheMove Featured products include compounded drug products with which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety, effectiveness or quality. Prescription required. See website for full details, restrictions and important safety information. Individual results may vary based on studies of topical and oral minoxidil and finasteride. All right, Johan, so Gijay vine probably probably has this thing wrapped up. This is just everyone pretend this is our post Tour down under show because I don't think we're going to need to come back on on Monday and talk about three sprint stages that probably will be won by Sam Wellsford or Tobias Lund Anderson. I was surprised as you say, Tobias Linderson. No idea. That guy was on decathlon. That was a big win. Sam Wellsford wins last night. Gets gets back. This guy is a as close to a Tour down under specialist as you can get. I believe every one of his World Tour wins has been at the Tour Down Under. He kind of reminds me of a US Crit rider. Guy is massive. It's impressive that he can get over any climbs. He is very strong but he's on INEOS now. Sam Watson on ineos. INEOS has two World Tour wins. The only I believe that's more World Tour wins than anyone else because there's only been four World Tour races so far this year. What, what do you make of this? Is, is, is INEOS back or is this just playing the playing the early season game better than they have in the years past?

B (37:17)

You know they're not back to, you know, where they were once as the dominant team. But there's definitely been a shift. You can see that. You know, the way they have I mean they did whatever they could to, to, to contract writers. I mean the big obviously the big signing of of Oscar only we'll still have to see how that works out. But I mean they're definitely racing differently, right? They are.

A (37:44)

They're always on the front foot even at this you notice it at this race.

B (37:48)

Yeah, they're you Know, aggressive. They're in breaks. They are, you know, they are proactive. I think what they lack for the moment, short term is just, you know, the quality riders. You know, I mean, they do have good riders. Some of those young riders may actually also step up and make big progress and, you know, come to the forefront. But for the moment, I think it's safe to say that they're not going to rival with uae. I would not. Even with Visma, I think Little track, I think those three teams are still. And then you have Red Bull. So, you know, they're in the top five, but they're not in the top three, in my opinion. Not yet or not. They can get there again, but it's going to take at least two more years.

A (38:40)

Yeah. Actually, a writer I would like to see on that team is Jay vine. That just. Just big engine. Let's see what he can do. I mean, Oscar on Lee, that is a big addition. But part of me is thinking, what can that guy do? Like, that's. That's a big year to back up that young. But, I mean, he was good throughout a lot of last year, maybe. I think you're. I mean, this. It's really about building foundation, because right now, I don't think anyone's under any illusion that they're going to be better than Pagachar and Vinegard. When Debt races, they're at. That they're good at. So it's really just thinking, like, who's going to be the best when they're not at their best and hope that it's not Isaac Del Toro and it's just not a rerun of what's happening right now.

B (39:20)

By the way, speaking of Ineos Spencer, I actually, I mean, now seeing it in the bunch and on tv, I actually started starting to like their uniform. You know, it's. It's not. It's not as bad as it looked at first. When they first presented it said, what is this? But actually, when you see it now, I like it. I mean, it's a bit of a new identity, I would say. But, yeah, it's pretty cool.

A (39:49)

And it really goes to show you how hard it is to design these kits because there's multiple facets. There's. How does it look in a picture? And then how's it going to look in the bunch when you're bent over different angle, you're moving really fast. I think it matches. The bikes look really good. Combined with those jerseys, the off white shorts, I still like. I don't.

B (40:08)

I don't know. There must be something behind that. I don't know. Anyway, we'll, we'll give another opinion after the spring classics when they've been riding in the rain, the mud. But, but speaking of uniform, Spencer, you know, and this is something I've, I've been wondering, you know, as long as, at least as long as I've been a team director and manager and still as of Today, you know, 26 years later, 27 years later, I still can't get my head around the fact that these teams are not in communication with each other over dominant colors of their uniform. If you look, for example, you have Groupama, you have Decathlon, now you have Bahrain. I mean it's all in the blues and it's so difficult to distinguish. You know, there should be something, some kind of consultation. I mean, and especially. Okay, I can understand if you're, if you're bound to a certain color because the corporate colors of your sponsor. Right. But for Bahrain, for example, that's not the case. I mean they went from red to, to white to now blue of. I mean there's some Bianchi influence in there, but it's so. It looks also blur these three teams and I'm, I'm sure I'm still missing another one in the, in the blues. I don't know. What do you, what do you think?

A (41:42)

No, I agree. You're totally right. I think that's probably one of the reasons INEOS has such a distinctive jersey. I will say I owe an apology to nsn. That might be my favorite jersey. It's a great.

B (41:53)

I've liked it from the beginning. I've liked it from the beginning. It's, it's unique, it stands out and, and I think it looks great in the peloton.

A (42:02)

It looks really good. I, I think they should. To add some spice to the promotion relegation rankings. You're like, take the UCI rankings. At the end of the year the first place team gets to draft a primary color and no team can have the same primary color. And then, so if you're finishing last, you're getting last picks on the primary colors. I, I make a more interesting looking pellet.

B (42:26)

Yeah. Mentioned Q36.5 also. I mean it's also blue. I mean it's blue. Blue going towards, I mean, I would say maybe a little purple. I don't know, it's like a. But anyway it's, it's again blue, you know, so I don't know, man. There should be some kind of judging going on or some Kind of filter that. I mean, on the other hand, then there's maybe teams that say, hey, you know what? We don't want to be prominent. We don't want to be a flashlight in the peloton. We want to keep it classy. So, you know, in that case, everybody can do whatever they want. But, you know, if. I mean, the Grand Tours have put out this rule that you can't have a uniform which is close to the leader's jerseys. You know, you can have yellow.

A (43:18)

Yeah.

B (43:19)

You can't have red in the. In the Vuelta. You can't have pink in the Giro. And then I guess now also the other. The other colors, like the green and the white jersey, I think that's also becoming a norm now that you can't have anything which is similar to that. So, you know, why can't they do the same amongst the teams?

A (43:43)

We could be running out of colors, though. Can't do green, white, polka dot.

B (43:48)

No, I mean, you know, there's always ways around it. Right? I mean, you can have. You can invert your colors. You know, Like, I mean, I remember, like, when I was. I mean, back in the days already when I was riding for Onse in the.

A (44:02)

Yeah, they would invert them. I remember that.

B (44:04)

Yeah. But in the Tour, for example, we were. We were riding. We couldn't be riding yellow. We were riding pink.

A (44:10)

Yeah.

B (44:10)

But then there was also some teams that, you know, they were. Back in the days already. There was. I think. Was it Gtan. I think Gtan. They did one year, they, you know, they had yellow jerseys and black, and then all of a sudden, they had black and yellow.

A (44:27)

Yeah, I think Cervela Test team did that, too. They went white. They were black and white, and they went white and black for the Tour, like, because it's less hot, I guess.

B (44:36)

Yeah. I mean. Yeah, that was. At least. That was the thinking behind it.

A (44:41)

Unclear if no one's ever gotten back to me with the. What is the science on that? Are black jerseys actually hot, or do they take the sun?

B (44:49)

No, black is hotter than white, for sure. I mean, I've seen tests on helmets, for example, and it's massive, the difference in temperature. It's very, very big difference.

A (45:02)

It does kind of feel like you could cook an egg on a black helmet at times. Speaking of teams with great jerseys, Astana XDS, Astana had a great, as we know, great 20, 25, staved off relegation. This time last year, I was saying, these guys are doomed. They're gonna get. They're gonna get Relegated. The big question for me was, well, do they go into 20, 26 and they're. They're on the back foot again? No, because they won a race. There are other races going on. I'm gonna be honest, I didn't know this race was happening. Johan did. Tell me about it. Classica. What's it called? Classica Camp.

B (45:33)

D.

A (45:35)

More. More to Vedre.

B (45:36)

Yeah, it's in the. It's in the Valencia area. First, so. First European race. Actually, it's a 1.1 race. So. Not a world 2 race or. Not a. Not a. It's, I would say. Is it third. Third level race?

A (45:52)

Yeah, because Dot Pro is second. Dot one is. Yeah, is third.

B (45:56)

Yeah. But anyway, you know, win off. Guess who.

A (46:01)

If. If you had to. If you didn't get to watch the race and you had to guess who won this, you would guess.

B (46:05)

Christian Scarani, you know, picked up where he left it last year. He started. I mean, he was amazing in the spring of last year, like, all these races, he. He was very dominant and, you know, starts straight away winning again. So I think, I think it's. It's a good sign for Astana that they're going to keep that level. You know, they. I'm hearing a lot of really good reports about their equipment. Actually, you know, this XDS carbon manufacturer in their X lab. Bikes seem to be really, really good. May have gotten a lot better. Yeah, I've seen a report somewhere of their climbing bike, which is apparently like the lightest one on the market right now. I mean, then you have the 6.8 rule for the UCI, so it doesn't mean. Doesn't really matter that much. Almost all the brands can. Nowadays, if they use the right components, they can get to 6.8 kilos, I think. But, yeah, I mean, listen, Astana, Chapeau, for them, you know, they. They keep the level from last year, and, and this is definitely a great start for them.

A (47:23)

Yeah, really good start. And if you want to build a good bike, sponsor a team, your bike's not going to be that good the first year, and then you're going to learn a lot. I. I actually underestimated how much these bike brands learn from the team until I went and checked out Colonago. Colonago and uae. And then as you notice at the Tour, down under, these head tubes are growing by the minute. Like, head tubes are just getting longer and longer. Like thicker, I guess. Deeper. Yeah, because it's all about, as you say, almost everyone can hit that 6.8 kilo weight limit with an aero bike. So I think you're just going to see more and more and more aero bikes. I went and weighed UAE's colonago, just the one you would buy off the shelf. It wasn't that much over 6.8 kilos. So it's safe to say they're probably hitting that weight limit with their stock team bikes because they put titanium bolts and things in there that we probably wouldn't run. If you're not this, this the weight and size of a pro cyclist.

B (48:16)

I was at a place, Spencer, you know, a bit over a week ago in, in Marrakesh visiting somebody who is riding bikes at triathlete and he showed me a bike. It was 5.4 kilos. It was.

A (48:33)

Oh man, unbelievable.

B (48:34)

I mean it was obviously with you know, a lot of special components.

A (48:37)

Yeah.

B (48:38)

But it was, you know, a very well known brand and he brought it down to 5.4 kilos, man. It's, that's, that's, that's insane. And, and very safe to ride actually because one of my friends rode the bike there and he said it was, it was great.

A (48:56)

Someone at a bike brand, actually, I forget the brand, told me that if the weight limit wasn't there, there would be no aero bikes in the, in pro cycling. Cuz everyone would be riding 11 pound bikes like you. Yeah. Cause you, they can just make these so light now it kind of. Do you think they should remove that or how do you feel? It doesn't. Because it hasn't changed in a long time and bikes have gotten a lot lighter.

B (49:19)

Yeah, I think, you know, the 6.8. Listen, it's. I think there has to be some kind of limit because otherwise, you know, it. I remember when there was no limit, Spencer. When for example, when I was on Onse. I've ridden bikes that were lighter than six kilos in races. You know. We had our director, Manolo Sais, who was, you know, very proactive and a pioneer in a lot of things and always wanted the best equipment and we got, I got, it's for certain stages in the Vuelta, for example, a mountain stage. All of a sudden in the morning the mechanic had done something special to our bikes. And so what. And then I looked, you know, all special components. The question is if it's not regulated, it's gonna get unsafe. There needs to be.

A (50:08)

That's true.

B (50:10)

I do think the 6.8 kilo limit is there already for a while. I mean I think it should go down to six kilos for sure. It would still remain safe, especially with the way the material is made now and it also, the weight limit of the bike actually makes not much sense if you don't when you have riders of 75 kilos and riders of 65 kilos or 58 kilos and they have to ride the same weight bike. So I think there should be, I mean there's a lot of other sports that it's actually the, the like in Formula one, for example, I think it's the seat and the pilot, the driver actually that has to, you know, it's, I think it's, it has to be 80 kilos, the seat which is obviously removable and, and the driver. So I think there should be something around that like rider and bike together.

A (51:21)

You're. Yeah, because if you're Narukintana, you're, you're extremely penalized because you're weighing your body weight. Your bike is a massive percentage of your body weight relative some to someone like Filippo Ghana.

B (51:34)

Yeah.

A (51:34)

And you have the same size, the same weight bike, which doesn't make a lot of sense.

B (51:39)

Yeah.

A (51:40)

And I think I'm a little worried too. I mean after you can see these teams that work really closely with bike brands and they can make these aero bikes that are so fast relative to someone like Kofitis who is probably just riding a bike that they can get that someone's gonna pay them to ride. And it's. I'm a little worried the weight limit's gonna increase. It's actually gonna increase a disparity in equipment because really well funded teams can just make super fast aero bikes that not everyone has access to.

B (52:09)

Yeah, well, I mean, you know, there, this, there is obviously the rule that, you know, every piece of equipment that the pro cyclists are riding and race in races has to be available commercially. So I, I think that's the case. You know, I mean even, even those special, special components. I see, for example, Pogachar, even if he rides a Colnago, he has def. Special customized components on his bike. You know, the seat post and stuff like that. So. But yeah, I mean obviously a team with more resources will be. Would be able to, to have a lighter bike. So I think that's why I say, you know, okay, I think 6.8 is fine. But times have changed already. You know, it's. It's been over 25 years now. This limit material has, has gotten stronger. Any bike brand could probably make a 6 kilo bike if they really want to. Yeah.

A (53:10)

And you have some, you know, UAE can go to Kalinago and say, build us this bike. Like, they, they've even built bikes that are specifically designed for Pagacha's preferred riding style. But if you have Marita's your sponsor, they can say, no, we're trying to sell a bunch of bikes here.

B (53:26)

We're not.

A (53:26)

Do we?

B (53:27)

Do we?

A (53:27)

Who are you? We didn't even know we sponsored a team. Some of these.

B (53:31)

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, Merida is obviously big. A big, big brand, I think. Is it Merida and Giant, who are the two biggest ones?

A (53:39)

Yeah, I think they're the two biggest brands in the.

B (53:42)

The biggest manufacturers, I would say, because they manufacture for a lot of other brands. I can tell you, Spencer, if any bike brand has the resources to sponsor UAE and Pogachar, they're going to do whatever he needs. They're going to make a special bike for him, whatever he needs. Then you have the question, okay, how do they make it available for the public? That's also very. I mean, it depends how you see that, right? I mean, you can put it available to the public, but whatever. I mean, put a. If you make, if you make 3,000 to put in a shop and you, you ask 20,000, it is available to the public.

A (54:29)

Yeah, technically it's available.

B (54:30)

Nobody can buy it or nobody wants to buy it.

A (54:32)

Yeah. I mean, the big thing Too are these 3D printed arrow bars on the time trial bikes. That, that, that's where it starts to get weird, where they're making like five of them and they aren't really for sale. Also, correction on myself. Sam Wellsford has won eight World Tour races. Seven are at the Tour Down Under. One is at the Renui Tour in 2023. Okay, so he has won World Tour Race. It's not that, but. Johan, Question, Question. Questions for you. Question time. Jingle. It's like a little jingle. Question time. First question is, where are you? Where are you watching these races?

B (55:06)

You.

A (55:06)

You're in Spain. You watch it on HBO Max and you get the whole.

B (55:09)

Down under is on hbo. HBO Max. Yeah. Okay. I, I'm hearing that there's a potential change again, because Eurosport, I mean, HBO Max is basically Eurosport. Yeah. And so I don't know what happened. There's been a redistribution of several channels. So I'm just waiting to hear, but for the moment, it's HB2 Max. HBO Max. Sorry.

A (55:36)

And in some, it's really confusing in Europe because some countries it's HBO Max, but then in, like the uk, they don't have. It's not on HBO Max, it's on TNT Sports or Discovery plus is this is the streaming service all owned by the same company, Warner Brothers Discovery in the and that could get more complicated because Warner Brothers Discovery is trying to be purchased by I believe Netflix. But Netflix is not buying the sports vertical that would be spun off into like Eurosport would be spun off into a separate they call it like Shitco I think is the technical name for it because it's just low growth brands that are going to trade terrestrial TV brands that will trade at like a lower multiple than hopefully the Netflix assets were. But that I think would pull a lot of the sports off of HBO Max, which then that's not clear where it leaves us. We might we might be like the UK where we're all paying $50 a month to watch cycling. Wouldn't be great in the US It's I published a piece this week called where to Watch Cycling in the United States. Not as easy as you're not just firing up HBO Max like the Tour down under. What we're talking about that's on Peacock and in general in the US ASO races plus a few oddballs like Tour down under are on Peacock. ASO is the promoter of the Tour de France. So rule of thumb is French race Peacock think Perry Nice Dauphine, which isn't the Dauphin anymore. Tour de France, Vuelta Espana, which is not in France but it's owned that race is owned by aso. That's all on Peacock. Peacock's a very good service, about 110 a year for it. You get a lot of stuff on there. If you like other sports and reality TV shows, you're going to be in heaven. Flow Bikes has the Flanders Classics races. So Omloop Newsblad Tour Flanders being the biggest 1 gen wevel gum Amso Gold which is now in Flanders Classic two of Romandy and then a few oddballs like Roman D Swiss and the big one is Flow Bikes also has world championships. Well there's a workaround because they have the whole calendar in Canada. There's a workaround I'll come to in a second. This is where it gets complicated. The other races, the RCS races like Strada Bianchi, Giro d', Italia, Milano, San Remo in the past. We're on HBO Max right now. HBO Max has nothing on its cycling calendar for 2026 outside of challenge Mallorca and a few cross races. Unclear to me what is going to happen with those I they probably safe to assume they will renew those rights and the Giro Strato Bianchi but we're like seven weeks away from Strato Bianchi and we don't know where we're supposed to watch it in the U.S. that's not great. Probably will be back on HBO Max. So you can get those three services you're going to pay around. I tallied it up here. It's around $450 a year for those services. Here's a workaround though. You get Flow Bikes. What I usually do is I have flow bikes. It's $150 a year. It's a little expensive, but it's got a lot on there. And you use a VPN just to say you're watching from Canada. So no matter where you are in the world, you're just watching that Flow Bikes feed of every race. It's basically the workaround because if you want to get like an HBO Max account like Johan has, you have to have a bank account or credit card from a country that has the full rights. So you'd have to get a French bank account. A Spanish bank account would be quite complex. There probably is a way to do that and spoof it online. But really that Flow Bikes workaround is the cheapest one, I think. But yeah, Peacock flow bikes, HBO Max. We'll put a link to the. I have a big chart with all this in there. We'll put a link in there, but complicated. And then we'll let you know when we hear about where is Strato Miyaki and Milan Sano in the Giro Italia airing in the U.S. so that's. It's, it's complex, but we'll, we'll get through. We'll get through it together. But first real question, Johan. This is from Jonathan and this is simple, but I think it's, it's actually helpful for us to talk through it.

B (59:40)

What's the last name of Jonathan?

A (59:42)

Jonathan Milan. I don't want to give people's last names away if they didn't.

B (59:46)

What's the first letter? M. Okay, as long as it's not a V. I'm answering.

A (59:54)

I. I'm a part time announcer on HBO Max and a full time team manager. Why is it advantageous to have a writer from your team in the lead group when your GC contender is in the peloton? Like for they have an example. Why is Bob Roll saying it's helpful for Visma to have wout van Art in the breakaway when Jonas is back in the peloton, it's always.

B (60:16)

Listen, first of all, it's always good to be represented in a breakaway, at least if it's a substantial breakaway, not in a. Not in a TV break, a TV break means, you know, it's three, four guys up the road just for TV time, knowing that they're going to get caught. If it's, you know, a bigger group, it's always interesting to have a guy up there. Why? For many reasons. But, you know, usually it happens that the break is far enough ahead, and when the big war starts in the peloton, amongst the favorites, they get a. Ahead of the peloton, the. The favorites all together, but they still have the breakaway up front. So you have a teammate up front, which normally cannot follow the rhythm when the war between the big guns is happening in the peloton. So that's the first. The first reason, I mean, one of the big reasons also, is if you're represented in the break, you have no responsibility to bring the brake back. That's the second reason. And then the third reason is, whatever happens, you can always call that guy back. Whereas if something happens, if it's. If every. If hell breaks loose and your teammates are dropped from the main group, which happens almost all the time, you have a guy up front who has a head start, basically. And when it really matters or the leader is in trouble, you can call him back and have a support rider where otherwise you wouldn't have that guy. And usually the guys who go in breaks are the guys that would normally get dropped when the big battle is going on.

A (61:54)

This super famous example of this is if you. If you're wondering this question and you want to see. If you want to see it represented, it's w. Venard, stage 20 of the Giro last year. Yeah, he would not have made it over the. The Finestra gets in the breakaway, gets over. Is there to pull Simon Yates. And it's like what Johan is saying. He's. He's powerful. He's important to have. He wouldn't have made it over with Simon Yates because he's in the breakaway. He does. You also can descend into almost madness. There's even more layers to this where you could think, well, let's say there's a GC rival in the breakaway, but you have a teammate in the breakaway, and that guy is not going to work. So then starts to. Sure, in a perfect world, everyone would say, just ignore them and let's work, but it's not really how it works. You can. A writer sitting on a breakaway can cause a breakaway to fall apart. It mentally crushes people because they say, well, why would I pull if this guy's sitting on and he's just going to win this. I'm not going to pull him to a stage win. He's going to drop us if we pull him. So you can also almost break a breakaway's will by having a writer up there that's not working. If you need to like think about Sepkus, he wins the VTA because he's in that break. Ladu Sedol's chasing. Maybe if Ladu Sedal has a guy in that break, it makes it more complicated. Probably wouldn't have helped in that sense scenario, but yeah.

B (63:15)

Plus if you have a guy in the breakaway, Spencer, let's say there's. And there's a rival GC contender in the break. Another. Another advantage is obviously your teammate is not going to work and it's going to actually instigate other riders also not to work. And all the weight of the breakaway gets on the favorite rival GC contender who then has to do a lot of work, wears himself out and will pay for it at the end of the stage.

A (63:46)

Yeah, there's actually the. When you start to think about it, there's very few downsides to being in the breakaway. None just in general. So it's always, always good to be in the breakaway. Unless you're a GC leader, then you shouldn't be up there because you're going to probably get dropped later in the race. So question number two. This. I actually was wondering about this too. You guys have discussed strategy. This is from Brett Bitner, I assume not related to Pavel Bitner. I hope so you've discussed strategies for creating r writers racing schedules for the year. I would also love for you to explore how the director sportifs create their schedule. Are they expected to be on the road for almost the entire season? What factors determine which races Johan went to? Was there ever an issue with directors not wanting to be on the road so much? Also, me and my buddies were wondering what your take is. I've. I've not proofed the second paragraph. Let's hope it's okay. What your take is on cyclists, Pastor Current, who were infamous for their ability to suffer and really dig deep. Maybe not always the top cyclists, but the ones who could really go into the pain cave. But then I. I often won. I wonder this about. What's that?

B (64:53)

What's the question? This, that second part. What is the question exactly?

A (65:00)

Who. Which cyclists do you know that were able to go deepest into the cave?

B (65:03)

Okay. Yeah, I can. I have a really good example. Let's let me start with that one. I actually had lunch today with an ex colleague of mine, X2, the France winner from Spain. And we discussed. This guy was. He was my teammate, Alex Zule. I don't know if you remember that guy.

A (65:24)

Yeah, yeah, I do.

B (65:25)

I mean, he won the Vuelta twice. He was twice second in the Tour. You know, I got together with him at Onse. I mean, it was early 90s, so very long time ago. But I have never seen anybody who could suffer more than that guy. That guy could. You know, first of all, he was incredibly strong. Big champion, world champion, time trial also. And yeah, I mean, this guy could just ride until he literally, after the finish, literally fell off his bike. I mean, I've seen many, many finishes of mountain stages or time trials. Time trials which, you know, he either won or had to defend the leaders jersey. And this one yours knew already. They had to be at the line because they had to basically catch him. He just fell off his bike. He went so deep.

A (66:18)

Interesting.

B (66:18)

Fell off the bike. And it was not a show where it was real. Yeah, the ability to just go beyond where you just go blind. You don't see anymore, you know, you can't breathe anymore. Just, you know, like really like gasping for air. Yeah. I've never seen anybody who could go deeper than that guy.

A (66:39)

It's a crazy Palmares, by the way. I didn't realize he won this much.

B (66:42)

He was really good. Yeah.

A (66:44)

Wow. Two VTAs.

B (66:45)

Perry.

A (66:46)

Nice. Tour Swiss, two stages at the Tour de France, Catalunya. Overall world championship time trials, three stages of the zero, two times second at the Tour. Oh, he was second in 99. Yeah. Okay. I. I often wonder, is this. Is this mental or is this a physical gift some people have where they can almost maximize their engine versus some people, they. They never seem t. You're like very talented, but they never seem tired. Like they almost can't push into the reserves. I wonder about this all the time.

B (67:19)

No, I think it's something unique. I mean, like, if you can really go so deep that you. I mean, it's. It's not given to many people, you know, to go through the pain and then basically go beyond that pain where your body says stop. And being able to stay at that pain level for a very long time, I think that's probably what makes the difference between the great, the good and the great.

A (67:47)

What is Alex Zula doing now?

B (67:50)

I know he's riding his bike a lot because we follow each other on Strava and he rides a lot and he still rides very fast. He hasn't slowed down much.

A (68:03)

Yeah, I would, I would imagine, you know, his last team was Phonak Career man.

B (68:08)

Wow. Yeah, yeah.

A (68:10)

And then. So the. Yeah. How did they, how did they decide. Oh, how much are they on the road? It seems.

B (68:17)

Yeah. I mean, it's changed a lot also now, Spencer, I remember, you know, when like, basically when I started with Postal, we had two directors and two directors for the whole season.

A (68:32)

Oh my God.

B (68:33)

Yeah.

A (68:34)

What?

B (68:34)

Yeah, two directors. Who are the director? Me and Johnny Wells.

A (68:38)

Oh my. I didn't know that. And two of you.

B (68:41)

And to the Tour de France. I went on my own. I went on my own. I swear to God, I went on my own. And the team manager, the general manager was Mark Gorski, who was not usually a director. And so he drove the second car in that first Tour de France. And then the days that Mark had to take care of VIPs, like sponsors were coming. He just didn't drive the car. We had a mechanic driving the second car. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I mean there's different, different days.

A (69:18)

Right, but different days.

B (69:19)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, obviously, you know, nowadays there's, there's, there's a lot of directors. So there's, there's. I mean, the calendars are not that big for the directors and I think they do like 60, 70 races probably a year. Unless you have, I mean. Yeah. I mean already writers write 60, 70 days a year. So usually it also goes. I mean, every director has their own specialty and their group of writers. Right. And so you have lead directors and then you have assistant directors. So it usually goes together with the program of the writer. If you look, for example, Pugach program, it will always be Andre Hauptman who is the lead director in the car, and then an assistant director. And, and so it's, it's. I mean, the way the teams are structured now and the availability on staff, it's. It's not that big of a deal. They, they all have their races and it's not overloaded. It's not overloaded. I do think that the. What, what, what really is demanding on certain directors is the training camps. And that's also, that's like, you know, that's another Grand Tour. Right? It's another grand tour. You're always in the same place, but you are away from home, right? Yeah.

A (70:41)

If you do three altitude camps. Yeah, that's three more grand tours, basically. Yeah, yeah, that's a really good point. These camps are, I think, people, a lot of people. I know they're like, what's the big deal? Just go to altitude camp. It's like, well, that's a lot of money, first of all, for the team. And then, yeah, it's, it's a lot of strain on the personnel and on the riders. You're going to spend three minutes away from your family.

B (71:05)

Logistically, it's, you know, usually these camps are not easy accessible. You know, it's, it's a far travel. You have to bring vehicles. It's, it's, it's hard on the staff. But, but in terms of race program, the way the sport is organized nowadays, it's, it's fine. It's not that big of a deal. And it's all decided before the season already. Okay. You take care of the classics, you take care of the, of, of this group of riders. Okay. You go with Pugach, you go with this rider. It's. It's all predetermined.

A (71:39)

Do a lot of directors live in the same area like Girona? Nice. Or they just kind of spread out around Europe?

B (71:46)

More or less spread out.

A (71:46)

Yeah, yeah. Got to be European based, right? Oh, yeah, for sure.

B (71:51)

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, as a professional cyclist, you have to be European based. There's no.

A (71:56)

Didn't always used to be that way, though, right?

B (71:59)

Yeah.

A (71:59)

Like we. Yeah.

B (72:02)

When they know. They are obviously, all the Americans on my teams, they all had a base in Europe.

A (72:07)

Yeah.

B (72:08)

For the season. They, you know, they either had a house or rented a house. But you have to be. Yeah, you have to be in Europe. 90% of the calendar is in Europe.

A (72:20)

I, I don't know how much. I, I definitely know an American. A few American cyclists who try to spend as little time as possible in Europe.

B (72:29)

I know a few of those, too.

A (72:30)

Not helpful to their careers. I mean, I was talking to an American who is so dialed in. He said he only comes back to the US Once a year because he thinks it's such a drain on, like, resources and training and takes him off his game so much. So I would say, yeah, there's little time as you could spend in the US probably better.

B (72:49)

Is that Mateo Jorgensen?

A (72:51)

It's not Mateo, but he, he, he probably is roughly around that. I mean, he's in Nice almost all the time. Well, you have anything else, Johan? I think I've exhausted everything I can from this week.

B (73:04)

Covered most of the. Of whatever's going on in pro cycling right now.

A (73:09)

Yeah. And we'll be back. Not on Monday, we'll be back on Friday to talk about the Tour down Under. Will finish Jay Vine's going to win, Navarros will get second, Marshmit's probably going to get third, and we will be talking about other races that happen after that as well.

B (73:23)

Okay, Spencer, thank you.

A (73:24)

All right, thank you.

B (73:25)

Bye.

A (73:33)

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