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- [00:00]
A
Van der Breggen, who takes a minute on everybody else, including Vollering on that climb. I think it's going to be very difficult for Walering to shake her. You know, I mean, she has the Vuelta Espana in her legs. She did already do really steep climbs there, whereas Demi didn't. You know, she did the Angliru, where she actually lost the Vuelta on the Breggen. And then she did that other stage the day before, which is also an incredible steep climb, which she won. So. And she looked pretty solid when Vollering was putting her effort in on that. On that stage. She won. So I, I think, I think there's a good chance Van der Bragen wins the Giro. She's won it already four times, I think, in the past, in her early in her earlier career.
- [00:50]
B
Yeah. Everybody, welcome back to the Move Plus, I'm Spencer Martin. I'm here with Johan Berniel. We are breaking down a bit of racing from Tour del Waloni and the Giro d' Italia women's. And then we're going to get into the news of the week, which is the management shakeup at Little Trek with Andy Schleck coming in as CEO of the team. Gersha Niemann leaving Visma Lisa Bike in a pretty shocking move, seemed to shock even Visma Lisa Bike CEO or general manager Richard Pluga, and he's taking a. It's like a GM or head of racing role at Little Track. So Little Trek major, major shake up. Johan, no one, no one more informed to talk about it than you. So I'm excited to get your thoughts on it before we get into it. How was your trip back to. Back to Madrid? You get back on the bike? I hope not.
- [01:39]
A
I already got back on the bike, Spencer. So when did we. We traveled on Monday, right?
- [01:45]
B
Yes.
- [01:45]
A
Anyway, my trip was shorter than yours, of course, so. So yeah, I. I already got three rides in since. Since then, so. And yesterday we did our annual trip with some friends that I'm always doing from Madrid to Segovia, which is very nice on the road bike. This time through the mountains and then finishing at the Aqueduct with a famous picture and then a really nice dinner, typical Segovian dinner, which is lamb. And how do you call that? Like, how do you call that? Like a small pig. Suckling. Suckling.
- [02:27]
B
Suckling pig. Yeah.
- [02:28]
A
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So good day. Good day.
- [02:32]
B
Yesterday and you stayed the night and then you rode back?
- [02:36]
A
No, no, no, no, no. We are organizing this like as we should, as you know, old guys who are semi retired. You Know, we are the day before we put a car there.
- [02:50]
B
Okay. Yeah.
- [02:51]
A
We ride in the morning. We arrive, you know, just after the noon. We have a hotel to shower and rest, and then we go to dinner and drive back home in the night. So.
- [03:01]
B
Okay.
- [03:02]
A
That was nice. 130 kilometers, more or less. I think 2,500 meters of elevation. It's a big, nice day. Yeah. Yeah. For me, it's a big ride. Yeah. Yeah.
- [03:13]
B
You're gonna.
- [03:14]
A
It doesn't need. Doesn't need to be anything more than that, man. That's like perfect.
- [03:18]
B
That and doing it on the road has got to be. You did it mountain bike last year. That's a lot harder.
- [03:23]
A
We did it twice on the mountain bike already. Yeah, it's different. Completely different. I mean, both of them have the charm, but on the road, it's. The road bike is. Is definitely a lot more comfortable. Yeah.
- [03:36]
B
Yes. Well, you're gonna. You're gonna disappear before our eyes. You're in. You're in Race Fit Fitness right now, ready for the Tour, gearing up for it.
- [03:44]
A
This guy's never racing anymore. Ever, Ever. Like, you know, never putting a. A number on my back anymore. I've made that promise to myself, so that's gonna stay like that. Whatever I do, I do. I do it for fun and for my own pleasure.
- [04:00]
B
I can. I can see the merit in that. Well, since. Since we've gotten back, it's a little jarring because, you know, we're so focused on the Giro, we travel home. A little bit of a Giro hangover and then race. The racing just keeps. Keeps marching on. We have Tour de Walani going on this week. Five day race. Monday was the first day. Today was the final day. Ben Oliver from George Shin Cappy's team, Modern Adventure Pro Cycling, wins two stages, gets their first pro win, I believe on stage.
- [04:30]
A
First win in Europe. I think first they won in Tour of the Gila. At the Gila. I think they won a stage there, if I'm not mistaken.
- [04:40]
B
They definitely want to stage there.
- [04:41]
A
Yeah, but. But this is their first win in Europe. And it's. I mean, it's nice race. It's not an easy race. Tour de Walloni. Pretty good field, you know, Pretty good field. There's some really, you know, good team. I mean, Lotto's there, ineos is there. There was. There was a lot of World Tour teams there. Nsn, you name it. I mean, many others. So, yeah, winning two stages. This. This guy, Ben Oliver, I checked on him. He's 29 years old, so seems he was riding crits until last year in the States. But definitely fast sprinter, man. Winning these two stages and the overall by the way. So that means that every day he had to be there and then he won because of the bonification I guess today. But these were not easy stages. So that's a pretty good. Pretty good result for him and for the team, man. It's. Yeah. In their first year of existence. Not bad. Not bad.
- [05:45]
B
No. And to find a rider like that, 29. So it's not like it's some young guy that you're picking up. He won Tour of America's Dairyland last year. That's a crit stage race. People will know.
- [05:56]
A
What is that?
- [05:57]
B
It's a really good race actually. It's in Milwaukee. It's in Wisconsin, in the greater Milwaukee area. So it's. It's relatively easy to get to. You keep them flying to Chicago. Very convenient. Very easy to stage yourself there. But you can basically race like 10 to 15. It's like something like 15 crits in 15 days.
- [06:16]
A
One of those races where these guys who participate are the guys who say that World2Riders wouldn't be able to follow them or something is that could be
- [06:25]
B
a little chatter like that going on. And I'm going to say Ben Oliver's win. This phrase is not probably not helping that chatter because it's like hey, well he wasn't winning every race. He got six at the Willow Cedar Creek Classic last year. I beat him. So I could be winning this race against net company Anyos. But clearly the thing about Ben Oliver is he's a very fast sprinter but clearly very good writer all around because you know, I was shocked watching this race, how different it looked from Flanders where we were same. It's a very small country, Belgium, but you know, it's pseudo mountainous when you get into the. When own region. So to stay with the peloton on those stages, you have to be a very good all around rider. Yeah, yeah.
- [07:07]
A
No, no, dur. The wallon is. I mean ultimately it's been. It's been in the sprint every stage or reduced bunch sprints. There's been a few crashes which have disturbed, you know, the, the results of the stages a bit. But. But man, you have to be there every day, you know. And is it. Who's. Who was second? Was it. Was it Riley? Riley.
- [07:28]
B
Riley Sheehan, friend of mine.
- [07:32]
A
No.
- [07:32]
B
Yep. And it was kind of a thrilling end to the. The stage today because Riley was in the race lead. He was sprinting. But the Gaps were so close that basically who. Whoever won the stage, unless Riley got second or third, was going to win the overall.
- [07:46]
A
Yeah.
- [07:46]
B
And then there was a big crash. Only a few riders made it through. Ben Oliver and Dele were two of them. Ben Oliver wins. Impressive. To beat Arnold Deli in a sprint. Wins. Wins the overall and time bonuses. 2 gets 2 seconds advantage over Riley Sheehan, and then 5 seconds advantage over Delee. So basically, it came down to a tie bonus sprint on the final day. Tragic about the crash. The crash looked like. That did not look like a fun crash. Guys were really messed up from that. But to have a stage race come down to a sprint at the end is pretty cool.
- [08:18]
A
Cool, yeah. Yeah. And also what I was really impressed with, Spencer, was the. The stage win yesterday of Arnold.
- [08:26]
B
Oh, my Lord.
- [08:27]
A
You know, so let's. Let's go back a little bit. So we know that Arnaud started the Giro sick. So, you know, he had won that race in Wallonia just before the Giro, which was his comeback to competition after a few months of, you know, not having raced. He got sick, started the Giro sick, had to abandon after what, three days, four days maybe, and then comes back to Wallonia, which is his home region. You know, Arnaud Deli is from Wallonia, and initially, it didn't really work out. You know, he. I think he had a flat on stage one, and he had a crash. Was involved in one of those crashes. But, man, yesterday, that. That. That win was. I mean, I was impressed. We had Riley Sheehan in front, right? Was. It wasn't him who was in front.
- [09:18]
B
Yeah. So Riley clipped off the front somewhere and picked up bonus seconds at a late sprint.
- [09:24]
A
We had Lawrence Pitty behind him, who's, you know, very strong rider. Very strong rider. And, you know, they come into the fixed cameras and, you know, it looks like, okay, Sheehan has this. You know, it was 300 meters to go. It was uphill, a drag, really bad weather, and you see that Piffy can't make it, that he's not going to catch him. And all of a sudden, you see the Lee starting to sprint from the first position of the peloton on the pedals, on the hood. Incredible display of power. And there's only him who can do that. I mean, and then I saw the information on the lotto. Lotto Instagram account. He did 967 watts during 54 seconds. That was basically a minute standing up on the pedals. And. And, I mean, you could see when he. When he. So finally he. He passes Riley. SHEEHAN with what, 20 meters to go, probably.
- [10:30]
B
I mean, it was so. Yeah, it was so close to the finish.
- [10:33]
A
It looked impossible. If you, if you look at 300 meters, you say, okay, it's. There's no way this guy wins. And, and it looked impossible and he did it and then, you know, falls on the ground like he was empty, really empty. To me, Spencer, you know, we remember this win he had in Canada, one of those Canadian races where he was also a long uphill sprint. And he came from whatever 20 positions back and started to move his way up. And that was impressive. I think yesterday was more impressive. Not the same rivals, but I think that performance, in my opinion is. There are not three riders in the peloton, in today's peloton who can do that. That's why Arnaud Ali is, you know, so popular as, you know, as a promise, you know, and he has this unbelievable potential. Lots of, I know, lots of teams want him. Unfortunately, you know, there's no consistence, you know, it has lots of ups and downs from what I gather. And, you know, I have nothing to back this up. But, you know, he does have the reputation apparently of not being too serious. Likes the party quite a bit during the season and in the off season, I've heard. So, you know, imagine if that guy would really take care of himself and be super professional. How, how many races he would win? I don't know. I mean, maybe all know he's not going to stay at Lotto Intermarshe. It looks like he's going to Tudor. If I'm, if, if I'm correct, I don't know if that's going to change something. He's going to be under the, you know, under supervariance of Fabian Cancelara, who was a very serious worker. But I hope he can get it together, man. And if, I mean, I don't know if he's listening or if somebody else is listening, you know, you know, he. This guy has so much talent and just, I don't know, live for your job, man, and do whatever you have to do and you're going to win so many races.
- [12:41]
B
I mean, if you can do a thousand watts for a minute, the sky's the limit. Basically that. And the, the thing is, he seems to like unlock these performances in everything. They call it like in the military fubar, but it like messed up beyond repair. It's just like everything's gone crazy. You think, like, there's no way anyone can catch Riley and then he just kind of goes to this place and he's not even in a good position on the bike. It's just. It's primal. Just like, I gotta get to that finish line fast. And you can see what he's capable of. I mean, it is. I, I mean, I don't. I'm. I'm in no position to judge. Even when I was riding my bike, seriously, I probably was about the same weight as Arna de Lee. But when you look at a guy like Wout Van Art, like, he is given everything, everything to look the way he looks.
- [13:27]
A
Yeah.
- [13:27]
B
So if you can, you know, if you can lock into that type of commitment, someone like Del could do anything he wanted, I would think.
- [13:35]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, he's also known for, you know, I mean, if you look. You look at the way he. He rides, the way he sprints, the way he moves on the bike. Raw, pure, raw power. Could be more efficient, in my opinion. His. His style. But he's known to basically break a lot of material. I mean, we've seen him already break pedal, like break wheels, you know, clipping out of his pedal, you know, winning, pedaling with one leg over the finish. He does break a lot of wheels and bikes, and that's how much power he has. Yeah.
- [14:14]
B
Like someone like Bradley Wiggins, you know, so smooth on the bike. You could imagine that's what the equipment wants. And then you watch delete the opposite.
- [14:23]
A
If you, You. You've brought up a good. A good example. Bradley. It was like pure art on the bike, you know, doesn't move, just the legs. Smooth, you know, like very efficient. The Lee is all over the place. Yeah. You cannot have more. Two more extreme styles, you know. But anyway, listen, congrats to him for this amazing, amazing win. It was, it was, you know, it
- [14:49]
B
was nice to see and so sorry to Riley. I still can't get over that. I thought for sure he was going to win that, and then it cost him the overall. But also, congrats to George and the team. I mean, that's a big. And Ben Oliver, that's a big GC win for those guys. So it's great to see.
- [15:08]
A
These races are no joke, man. I mean, to win there, you have to. You have to be a solid bike rider and solid team support. So. So, yeah, well done.
- [15:17]
B
And I don't know how they found him, but kudos to her, whoever slipped that one across their desk because that's a great pickup. Not. Probably not an obvious guy to sign. 29 years old, been racing crits in the US and they took a chance on him.
- [15:31]
A
Listen, Spencer, it's the proof that, you know, it doesn't necessarily always need to follow the actual trendy pattern of, you know, super young talents go to a divo team when they're 19, 20 turn pro. And then, you know, there are other ways, you know, and there's. That's. I think it's hopeful for a lot of writers who, who are knocking on the door or have not been seen or being remarked by people. There's always a possibility. Yep.
- [16:00]
B
I think it's a great testament to that. Well, let's take a quick break and then we'll talk about the gird Italy women before we get into the the, the hottest, the hottest part of the episode at the end. We'll be right back everybody. This episode is brought to you by Lagoon Sleep. Everyone is is obsessed with buying speed, expensive wheel sets, ultra aero bikes and skin suits, testing and wind tunnels. And then they sleep on a pillow they've had since college. Come on, that's absurd. Here's the thing about endurance athletes, though. We understand compounding better than anyone. You don't get fitter from one ride. You get fitter from consistent training over time. Sleep works exactly the same way. One bad night isn't the problem. A training block where you're chronically under recovering is. And that starts with what your head is on for eight hours a night. Lagoon is a small company built by athletes for athletes. 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We don't want to talk about it too much because this could all change tomorrow. Because tomorrow and Saturday is not only the hardest race stage of this race, but maybe the hardest stage of any women's cycling race I've ever seen. Over the over the Fenestra finish at Sestriere. Exact same finish as stage 20 of the Giro men's last year. The GC after seven stages is Anna Vanderbraggen. I did not see that coming. Leading the race by a minute over Demi Ballerine. And then in third is Antonia Niedermeyer from Canyon Training. And Anna Vanderbraggen got her lead on there was a really hard time trial stage four. Like basically just a climb time trial. Like to give you the stats it is 7 and 7 and a half K at 8%. So a serious climb. Vanderbraggen just absolutely torches it. Demi Volune who you would think be would be perfect for like you just look at Demi on the bike and she's kind of like Bradley Wiggins, just no wasted motion. She was third one on nine back and then she came out the next day, I believe. Yeah, it was a tough mountain stage. She tries to blow it up, tries to attack, can't shake Vanderbran. She does win the stage with a pretty impressive sprint. Takes some time bonuses back, but it's basically just going to come down to this. I would assume the stage to whoever wins this stage I would think wins the overall. It's been a little hard to watch this race because it's been finishing at the same time as Walloni. So I've been kind of split screening and have you, have you been following this race, Johan?
- [20:51]
A
Yeah, I've seen some stages. The time trial was impressive, you know, both, both Anna van der Breggen and Demi Vollering. Demi Vollering was third, right? Was it Reusser who was second?
- [21:07]
B
Yeah, Marlon Reusser was second.
- [21:09]
A
Yeah. So the world champion time trial. But she did it on a normal. The majority of the riders did it on a normal bike.
- [21:15]
B
I thought that. I assumed that they had to. That's how many people were doing it on a normal bike.
- [21:21]
A
No, no, no, no, no. I mean it's a climb. I mean it's basically a climbing stage. I mean seven. What do you say? Seven kil.
- [21:28]
B
Yeah.
- [21:29]
A
Which, yeah, that's for a time trial bike. That's not easy. Both Van der Bragen and Volrig did it on the time trial bike, I think. I mean, what really impressed me in time trial bike, super light, normal wheels, low profile wheels. What really impressed me with van der Breggen was how long she was. I mean every time we saw her she was in the time trial position.
- [21:55]
B
Yeah.
- [21:56]
A
On the climb with an incredible high cadence, which is her trademark. It always been. But it was super, super efficient. I mean, not going to make a prediction or anything because tomorrow's stage is something completely different. But I would think Spencer van der Breggen, who takes a minute on everybody else, including Vollering on that climb, I think it's going to be very difficult for Walering to shake her, you know, I mean she has the Vuelta Espana in her legs. She did already do really steep climbs there, whereas Demi didn't. You know, she did the Angliru where She actually lost the Vuelta on the Breggen. And then she did that other stage the day before, which is also an incredible steep climb, which she won. And she looked pretty solid when Wollering was putting her effort in on that. On that stage, she won. So I think there's a good chance van der Breggen wins the Giro. She's won it already four times, I think in the past in her. Early in her earlier career.
- [23:04]
B
Yeah. And then tired for quite a while.
- [23:09]
A
Yeah. This rider, Antonia Niedermeyer from. Was it Canyon Sram.
- [23:13]
B
Yes.
- [23:14]
A
She looked good. She looks very good. Apparently it's a huge talent, big potential. And she. She also looked really good. So I think that's for sure. The podium, Van der Breggen, Wallering and Niedermayer. I don't see anybody else coming in there. I would say based on what we saw in the time trial, I would say advantage van der Breggen to win the Giro.
- [23:36]
B
It would be impressive. I mean, watch. She was kind of. She was dangling a little bit on stage five. But if you just think about the time trial performance, clearly her climbing is good like this. She doesn't put a minute into Demi Vollering if she's a bad climber on a climb. And Vollering, unless I'm mis remembering kind of her problem last year at the Tour was the hardest climbs.
- [23:59]
A
Right.
- [23:59]
B
Like the Madeline. She lost time and was like a big summit finish.
- [24:04]
A
Yeah, yeah. But I don't think Vollering was. Was a hundred percent in the Tour last year. There was something off. Something off. I don't know if it was after that crash or if there's. There was something off. She was not her usual self. The Vollering this year, Spencer, I think is. Is on a higher level than last year.
- [24:23]
B
Last year's Vollering and then I'm just trying to go back through her. So she lost the 2024 Tour also climbing, but that was that she had that crash where she kind of broke her tailbone, if I'm remembering right.
- [24:38]
A
Oh, yeah, that's. That's when. Wait, she lost that one.
- [24:42]
B
To cast like she wins the stage on up to as. But Neodoma is close enough that she wins the overall by four seconds. Holy smokes, what an addition. I'm quite curious to see how this plays out. It's only 106k, so it's on HBO Max. I assume it's going to start a little bit later and not. I mean it's. It will probably still be kind of a long Stage, though, because that climb, I mean, what Simon Yates won this year on it was he did it in about an hour, like maybe 101. So the climb could be well over an hour and then it could be like a two and a half, three hour stage, even though it's only a hundred kilometers. Pretty interesting to watch, that's for sure.
- [25:24]
A
Yeah, I think it's going to be close to three hours.
- [25:27]
B
Wow, that's.
- [25:28]
A
Yeah.
- [25:30]
B
I don't know if I've ever seen anything this hard in a women's race. This is going to be. I, I saw that Vol was up here previewing it. This is a few weeks ago. So she knows what's going to happen. Like she knows what's up. But there could be riders in this peloton that have never ridden this, don't you think?
- [25:46]
A
Yeah. And then also I also heard, I mean, surprisingly, that was kind of a shocker for me that Alavander Bragan won that time trial. She did not recon it.
- [25:54]
B
She didn't recon that time trial.
- [25:56]
A
Didn't recon the time trial.
- [25:58]
B
Wow.
- [25:59]
A
She just went off video. Whatever Velo viewer and information from a coach who had revisiting.
- [26:08]
B
She looked perfect. Perfectly dialed on it, focused on the,
- [26:11]
A
on, on the effort and, you know, didn't. Didn't worry about knowing the climb did.
- [26:17]
B
So I'm thinking about the Otacom time trial. So Pagachar did it on a. On a road bike and then.
- [26:24]
A
You mean, you mean perud.
- [26:27]
B
Yeah, sorry. Otacom was the day before P did it on a road bike and then everyone else did it on a time trial bike.
- [26:33]
A
Right.
- [26:36]
B
Like Jonas. And Jonas is on the front.
- [26:39]
A
Remco Lipowitz Roglich. Yeah.
- [26:42]
B
So that is the trendy thing now is to do the time trial, the uphill time trial on time trial bikes. I guess you would think though, someone maybe would looked at Picacho and said, hey, that guy did pretty good. Maybe we should. That's probably what some people did.
- [26:55]
A
You know, I think it depends how comfortable someone is. First of all, the weight, you know, you have to get the weight down.
- [27:03]
B
Yeah.
- [27:03]
A
To the minimum. That's number one. Yeah. I mean, speaking of weight, I mean, we haven't talked about the Giro women since. Since it started. But was it stage one or two that Lauren Awibus got disqualified?
- [27:21]
B
Yeah, we haven't talked about that, the
- [27:23]
A
race or having a bike that was 20 grams too light. So the minimum weight is 6.8 kilos, which is already a standard that the UCI introduced. It's already 25 years probably. I think it's time to change guys at the UCI. I think the 6.8 is a bit, you know, technology has changed, the materials have improved. There are. You can easily have a 6 kilo bike, which is safe. You know, that's not an issue. 6.8. And especially for smaller frames and stuff, the way the bikes are now, there are certain brands that you kind of have to add weight to get to the 6.8 because they come in lighter.
- [28:17]
B
Well, I thought this was. At first I thought it was viral marketing on specialized part, but clearly not because she was, was really upset.
- [28:26]
A
Yeah, I mean, and then there was this debate also, which, which is abs. I mean, I've seen it. I mean, it's a long time ago, but I'm gonna guess that the technology of the scales of the UCI has not changed. You know, those scales are not calibrated. You know, I mean, it's like you weigh it three times, you get three different, different measures. You know, so I remember back in the days we had obviously a scale, so we were trying to make the bike 6.85 to have a 50 gram margin. But we always, especially before time trials. I remember the time trial of Alpe d' Hus in the Tour. We went way before the start, we went with Lance's bike to the, to the UCI scale to make sure that our scale was okay. Yeah, and it came out different. You know, it was just above the limit, but it, it was not the same weight as, as our scale. So I think that's debatable. You know, I don't, I don't think, I mean, and first of all, I don't think that the mechanics of SD works would have made that bike so much on the limit. And on top of that, in a flat stage, you know, it doesn't really make that much sense. So that was not good. Man, that looked ridiculous. Sending, you know, one of the best riders home in, in an important race. I mean, I always think about people from the outside, right, who are not connected to cycling. And they read that rider excluded from the race because her bike was too light. You know, it's not a great headline. You know, for people who are, who want to take an interest in the sport. It looks a bit of a circus.
- [30:15]
B
No, it definitely looks a bit of a circus. And then you don't want to get into this. Maybe I shouldn't even say it. But then an Italian wins the first three stages, but it looks bad. It doesn't. You know, they're not Helping themselves by. I mean, when's the last time someone got thrown out of a race for a bike being too heavy? Is that even.
- [30:35]
A
I've never heard it. I've never heard it.
- [30:38]
B
And then now the precedent's terrible. What happens if Visma makes a little mistake, Jonas rolls up and his bike's too light on a stage?
- [30:45]
A
Well, I mean, you need to make sure that your scales are the same. But, you know, I mean, you could do that when it's a time trial, for example. But you know, if this is. This is just a random control, you know, basically. So they stop the bike, they stop the riders after the finish, they put a tag on it and then you have to go and weigh the bike. I did read, however, that SD Works and Specialized are suing the UCI over this. So that's going to be interesting to see what the outcome is.
- [31:20]
B
So, yeah, it shows you not. It shows you a lot of rigidity in thought for the right for those officials. You could come to a pretty creative solution if you thought.
- [31:30]
A
Yeah, I mean, on the other hand, you have to say, you know, okay, the rule of 6.8 kilos, it's there for a reason. It's the same for everyone. You know, if you're under, you're under. I've read that the three measurements that they weighed it several times and there was a considerable difference in the three times they weighed the bike. But anyways, at the end of the day it was 20 grams under. So it was what, six kilos, 780 grams.
- [32:04]
B
Well, it's what's interesting about the safe. It's there for safety. But I talked to a couple different bike manufacturers this last winter and it's essentially being exploited because they say we can make the most aero bike in the world that basically hits that minimum. So there's no reason for us to run a non aero bike, which makes the races faster, which probably makes them more unsafe. So this weight limit is. It's making all the teams ride ultra fast arrow bikes, which probably does, when you put 150, 50 of them, 200 together, probably does make them go quite a bit faster.
- [32:39]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [32:40]
B
Well, let's take a quick break, Johan, and then we'll be back to break down this little track management shakeup, everybody. This episode is brought to you by Quint. Summer always changes how I get dressed. I want pieces that feel lighter and more breathable. Things that are easy but still put together. That's why I keep coming back to Quint. They focus on high quality essentials that feel and look amazing. Think breathable linen and soft organic cotton. Well made basics, but without the luxury markup. It's a rare balance where everything feels elevated but still effortless. Quint's European linen pants and shirts are the perfect warm weather upgrade to add to your rotation. Starting at just $34. Their tees are soft and easy to wear, and their lightweight cotton sweaters are perfect for the cooler summer nights or an overnight United flight. Holy smokes. To keep those planes cold, you're gonna want that Quint sweater. Everything at quints is priced 50 to 80% less than the similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So you're paying for quality, not up. Quint goes way beyond clothing, though. Custom upholster sofas, ceramic cookware, premium bedding. It's the kind of brand you end up recommending to everyone for everything. We just had our live show in Belgium. I was traveling, but I wanted to look good during the show and I had to fly back right after. Well, Quint had me covered. I. I felt like I looked great in my European linen shirt with my, my sweater over the top. I could take the train to the airport. I wasn't sweating. You know, you get that public transport in Europe in the summer, you could be in big trouble. But with Quint, I was fine and I looked good. So elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com the move for free shipping on your order in. 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com themove for free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com the move everybody. This episode is brought to you by Caldera Lab. Caldera Lab makes high performance skin care designs specifically for men's skin. This is important since men's skin is 25 thicker, oilier and ages differently from women's. Which means men need clean formulas engineered for their biology. Their products are powered by clean, clinically tested ingredients and breakthrough patent pending technology delivering visible results. They have three key products I, I really like. And I use their anti aging lightweight serum, their anti aging moisturizer, and the anti aging eye treatment. The thing I really like about the eye treatment is that eyes are the most visible signs of aging. You know, the puffiness, the dark circles. It's like this. This ad is describing me. Well, guess what? The serum is going to help fix that. And I've been using it and I feel like I look a little bit better. So a small Habit with big results. Go to caldera lab.com themove and use code the move for 20 off your first order. That's calder lab.com themove and use Code the move for 20 off your first Order, everybody. This episode is brought to you by Hims. When thinning starts, it's not just your hair that takes a hit. It can change how you feel day in and day out. Hims makes it simple to take control of hair regrowth with personalized care that fits your life. Hims offers convenient access to a range of prescription hair loss treatments with ingredients that work, including chews, oral medications, serums and sprays. Hims can help since Dr. Trusted ingredients like finasteride and minoxidil can stop further hair loss and regrow hair in as little as three to six months. And hims thinks you shouldn't have to go to your way to feel like yourself, which is why they bring expert care straight to you. With 100 online access to personalized treatment plans that put your goals first. No hidden fees, no surprise cost. Just think of him as your digital front door that gets you back to your old self. With 100 online access to trusted treatments for real health concerns all in one place. So for simple online access to personalized and affordable care for hair loss, ED, weight loss and more, visit hims.com the move that's hims h I m s.com the move for your free online visit. Featured products include compounded drug products which the FDA does not approve or verify for safety, effectiveness or quality. Prescription required. See website for for full details, restrictions and important safety information. Individual results may vary based on studies of topical and oral minoxidil and finasteride. Okay, Johan, so just to give people a quick overview before you. Before you go off on this. So Luca Gerciolino. Gerciolina was the. He used the GM of little truck for as long as I can remember. Maybe since it was layo part track. It's been a long time.
- [36:55]
A
No, no, he came. He came when I left Spencer.
- [36:58]
B
Okay. So was that when it was radio shack?
- [37:01]
A
Still 2012. End of 2012.
- [37:04]
B
And then it became Trek. Segafredo.
- [37:07]
A
Yes, A few years. A few years later. Yeah.
- [37:09]
B
So he's been there for a while. And this off like this winter, there was, I'm trying to remember, there was some like, some bubbling in the management. Andy Schleck and Frank Schleck are brought in to help with the women's team. And then, you know, we're having a little, you know, we've been Talking about it all. Zero. Like, oh, little truck. They spent a lot of money in the. And they. And they had made a lot of moves, like pretty aggressive moves in the off season, not only signing riders, but Lidl buys the team. Lidl changes the team from an American, kind of Belgian, Italian team to a German team, like you said. They even moved the service course to Germany from Belgium, which is a pretty big move. You don't hear about that very often. So the identity's changing. They're making changes, signing a lot of riders for a lot of money, not performing maybe as they want at the Giro, but they end up, as we said in our final episode actually with a decent little race. They win a stage, win a jersey. They had the leaders jersey for a little bit. Not many teams can say that.
- [38:13]
A
Top five in the GC also top
- [38:15]
B
five in the gc. And then I'm in the cab on Monday, going over from the airport, get a notification that Gersha Neiman is leaving Visma. I mean, he is one of the lead D. He might be the lead DS at that team.
- [38:27]
A
He is, yeah.
- [38:29]
B
When you think of the team car, you think of him. He's the guy that says, come on, Jonas, if you've ever seen those documentaries, that he's leaving to go basically be the GM at Little Trek with Luca departing, Andy coming, Andy Schlatt coming on as CEO. I was shocked by this. This seems all very drastic. And Gersh is not leaving Visma technically until September 1st, but he will not be at the, at the Tour. He'll probably on some sort of gardening leave. Not that involved with the team, I would guess. But, Johan, you have a lot of back behind the scenes information on this. What have you heard about it? Yeah, I was shocked.
- [39:04]
A
I was shocked to see that. You know, I've been thinking about this. I mean, I've been reading already the last few months, you know, a few things that I thought were strange and, and then reading this news and I think, Spencer, I think I have some authority to give my opinion because basically I'm at the roots of the existence of this team because 2011 we had Radio Shack Nissan, and 2011 there was a team Leopard, and both. Both of the teams were on track bicycles. Right. So what happened in the off season of 2011, 2012, we merged both teams. Big mistake in hindsight for me.
- [40:00]
B
So you think that was a big mistake?
- [40:02]
A
Mergers don't work. Mergers don't work.
- [40:04]
B
Could the teams have survived without the merger, though?
- [40:08]
A
Well, we could have survived with Radio Shack, but We wanted a bigger team and Leopard was dead. Leopard were, you know, Leopard was a team that started initially because Leopard means nothing. It's not. It's a made up name.
- [40:23]
B
Yeah.
- [40:23]
A
So the team called Leopard Trek and there was this Luxembourg finance guy who was funding the team initially and the purpose was that they would start the team and they would find, I mean, a big sponsor to replace Leopard. And so what happened was we. We had some meetings and we talked and we did. Finally we did, we did a merge or basically a merge. It was not really a merge because the Luxembourg team stayed in charge. And I brought Radio Shack, I brought Nissan as sponsors, I brought eight riders, I think, you know, but you know, like top riders, Horner, Cluden, a bunch of guys from Radio Shack. Right. And then a bunch of stuff. But above all we brought 15 million to the budget, which at the time
- [41:28]
B
must have been a ton of money, right?
- [41:30]
A
Yeah, it was a big budget. If you brought both budgets together, it was a big budget. But and I want to give this background because I want to go back to this in a little bit because I am seeing now what I experienced then, which was I came into an organization which I brought these writers. Above all, I brought the money. Without that money, that team would have been non existent and the guys on Leopard would probably not have their contracts paid yet. I felt like I was an intruder there. I felt an intruder. It was the writers who were running the show. And if you look at who were the writers then the top riders then were the guys that are coming now in the management plus conchilada. So when I saw this newspan Spencer first I couldn't believe it because first of all, I think that Luca Guercigliana has brought this team to where it is one of the top teams. One of the top teams, although the results were a little off lately. But they are one of the four super teams, I would say. You have uae, you have Red Bull, you have Visma and you have Little Track now, maybe in the future maybe decathlon, but then of course we know that. So initially it was Radio Shack, Leopard, then it became Track Factory team, then became Track Lidl and now it's Lidl Trek and Lidl is now the majority owner of the team. I think it's 75 little and 25% track. But the decisions are made by Lidl now. And so Luca has built this team for the last 14 years. I think, you know, and I know that personally, I know that he had big health problems, like very, very serious, life threatening Health problems and he kept the team rolling. He's been, I think he's been absent almost for a whole season, but yet he kept the team. He was in the hospital and at home and he kept everything going. I think it's really respectless the way they have treated this situation because. I don't think that the people who are coming in now in terms of, in these management roles and directors roles and CEO roles are not qualified for this. I don't think they have the experience or the necessary baggage to run such a big organization. I mean, you know, Nirman has been a great ds, but as a gm, I don't know the guy personally, but I have my doubts about this. Andy Schleck has been a cyclist and he has been running a bike shop. You know, to be promoted to the CEO of the company. That's. Those are big shoes to fill, you know, on the women's team also, the same has happened. I mean, it was not, not so much in the picture, but, you know, the guy in charge of the women's team until this winter was Michael Rogers. He's been quietly put on the site and booted out. And Frank Schleck came in to run the team. So it's clear that this is the Luxembourg, German, Austrian connection. And I also hear that, I've heard that all the staff people are super disappointed, super pissed off that Luca is leaving. Some of the staff members, the 16th of now are being downgraded and then other people, mainly Germans, are coming in to kind of be the head of that department. So I think it's a big change. I don't. I mean, obviously the one thing that will probably save them is that Lidl has a lot of money and it seems like they are willing to spend a lot of money overspending. You know, I've heard rumors that right now there's already a huge all in the budget. You know, looking in hindsight, it's maybe not a, not a surprise if we know how much they spend.
- [46:12]
B
Certain I can circle a few holes,
- [46:15]
A
you know, so, so I, I don't think, I don't mean I feel the same atmosphere a bit as my experience in 2012. There the same people involved. You know, there's one writer, one. One ex writer who's now the head of sponsoring at Lidl who seems to be making the shots. You know, big friends with the Schlag brothers and apparently very close to the CEO of Lidl. And I'm a bit, I mean, I mean, it doesn't really matter what I think. Right. But I'm going to say it anyway because I can say whatever I want. I think it's not nice, it's not right the way they treated Luca Garcia with. You know, and then you see these, these, these press reports, you know, like Little Track is thanking Luca for all the work and blah, blah, blah. And same with Visma, you know, I, I know for Visma it came as a complete surprise that Nirman leaves and goes to Little Trek. You know, he's German, so obviously there's the German connection there. But, you know, you see these press releases of. In everybody, you know, saying nice things. But man, let me tell you, behind the scenes, it's not, it's not, it's not nice, it's not fun. And yeah, I mean, I don't know what the role of track is in this year exactly, but, you know, I don't think. Listen, everything can change. Obviously. Money talks, bullshit walks. But, But Lidl has a lot, Is willing to spend a lot of money. So, you know, probably they will be able to. To get somewhere in the end, but I don't think it's. I don't think they're making the right decisions. I don't see it as a successful change in leadership because if the vast majority of all this, all the team members are really unhappy and surprised with the way this has been changing. That's not a good sign. It's not a good sign.
- [48:31]
B
Correct me if I'm wrong. The origin of Leopard Trek was certain riders were on Saxo bank and they did not like the. It was like almost a militaristic regime. And they left to call the shots, right?
- [48:45]
A
They left. So they were with Bjorner Rees and then so a group of writers, which is the Schleck brothers, Cancellara Fugelsang, the press officer. The press officer who became the general manager. That whole group left like out of the blue and they created this team. And I remember, Spencer, when, you know, when I came there with, you know, with the sponsors and the writers and the staff, and I had this meeting with the owner of the team. You know, he says, you know, we want you to, you know, install your rules and. My rules, man, my rules. I mean, it was ridiculous. You know, it's, you know, this guy, the owner of the team, he said, you are welcome. Welcome. And I hope you can correct this situation here. Welcome to the Club Med, Club Mediterranean. Which is, you know, what Club Med is.
- [49:44]
B
Yeah, yeah. Is that really what he said?
- [49:48]
A
That's exactly like, literally, those were his words.
- [49:51]
B
Oh, boy.
- [49:51]
A
You Know, and so, you know, we're now 16, you know, 14 years later, and the same people of the club Met are back and, you know, and listen, and they're not going to like what I say. But, no, it's not. It's this. It's not gonna work. They're gonna. They're gonna have to do a lot of. A lot of try and retry, and they're gonna make a lot of mistakes where, you know, I. I think it would be okay to bring people in, but leave the guy.
- [50:29]
B
Yeah, that's what. That's what I don't understand.
- [50:31]
A
They try to, you know, make a team, you know, especially also because I know that Luca, for example, has done a lot for these riders who are now basically. Yeah. I'm not afraid to say it, like, making these moves behind his back. And, you know, Luca, Virginia doesn't deserve this. This is my final word on this.
- [50:58]
B
Yes. I think if people think you're being harsh, it's because I think a guy's getting. We probably both think he's getting screwed here. This is not. From the outside, it doesn't look good because he was, you know, he kind of guided that team through tough times. Like, am I also wrong in remembering they break away from Saxo Bank. Go start. Leopard shark. I'm at university at the time. I'm a huge fan of this team. So excited for this team. And then I want. They have a documentary about their training camp, which was pretty unique. You barely saw that at the time. Was groundbreaking. And I'm watching it thinking, like, this is, like, kind of relaxed, like, about what I thought it would be like.
- [51:33]
A
I told you.
- [51:35]
B
And so even as I didn't know. I didn't know at the time. Right. Didn't know anything about anything. And I'm thinking, like, this is not what I thought it was going to be. And then they had a pretty bad year, I think, and you start to
- [51:47]
A
think, well, no, I mean, they were. I think they were second and third in the Tour.
- [51:51]
B
Second. And so 2011, they were second to Cadell Evans, but entered in third. But if I. I don't. I would have to go back and re. Watch it in its entirety. I think they kind. I think Andy Psych was the stronger rider in that race.
- [52:05]
A
And, you know, Andy was a huge talent, and he was a huge talent, and, you know, he was. He was a great cyclist, but.
- [52:13]
B
And they. I don't know. I didn't feel like that. They worked on their time trialing enough, and Cadell kind of exploited that and I thought they should have beat Cadell Evans in the 2011 tour. That's just my thought though. But you're right. Second of their. The Tour, very good. And then Canc Lara finds his footing and starts ripping off. Amazing results in that program. But it is. I, I don't quite understand. What do you think happened? That. Why did they decide to do this so drastically? Like, why is Luca out?
- [52:43]
A
Like, I, I don't know. I mean it's, it's something that's, listen, it's something that's been in the making, you know, but I don't really know. Obviously they're, I don't know, they want it completely German. Okay, fine. I don't know. I mean, listen, Neerman is German. If you would, I mean if you would ask the management, the top management of Visma Lisa Bike, what they think about. They, they'll probably tell you, hey, if we did not see this coming, this is a huge disappointment and good luck to him because you know, he's not qualified for the job, for that job. I, I'm. I'm speaking for some. I mean, I haven't spoken.
- [53:30]
B
Yeah, wait, just.
- [53:31]
A
I can guess. I can guess. That would be, that would be their opinion.
- [53:35]
B
I would guess that as well. And that, that's a common thing that is said when something like this happens. Someone gets, they leave a company and they go and they get a big promotion. If so. Gersha Neiman. Something someone asked me, I thought it was a good question. What's the difference between a GM and a CEO? How do these roles function in a cycling team?
- [53:56]
A
The CEO, basically, the CEO is basically the guy who's in charge of the company and the finances and the contracts, which. It's big job and especially a team like this because these teams are, you know, they have development team, they're going to have a junior team, they have a women's team, they have the pro team. Man, you need to have some skills, some entrepreneurial skills and have an eight
- [54:23]
B
to nine figure company that you're running.
- [54:26]
A
It's, it's, it's, you know, it's. You have to have, you know, a minimum of, of education for that or a bunch of experience already in today's cycling. Right. So I can't see anybody there. Of those guys who are stepping in now, who has that? None.
- [54:51]
B
That's what surprised me the most. CEO.
- [54:55]
A
So I would think that probably, I mean Lidl would probably keep an eye on everything, but who knows what has been promised to the guys at Lidl. You Know, I mean, do they understand everything? Do they? You know, do they? I would think so, but I. It's very strange. It's very strange to me. And, and, and again, Spencer, from what I hear from within the team, there are only unhappy people right now. So they're gonna have a great big job to do to straighten that out.
- [55:29]
B
Yeah, and you'd hate for Little to come in and then have a bad experience. That would be the worst case scenario for cycling because it's good for already,
- [55:37]
A
you know, that's like, you know.
- [55:39]
B
Well, so I'm going to mount a defense of Gershon Neiman. Just, just for, just so we're fair and we're fair and balanced. We're like Fox News. So I went back to 2020 and we were just talking over the weekend. You know how many teams have won Grand Tours? This is since 2020 Grand Tours raced 19. Do you know which team has won the most grand tours?
- [56:00]
A
Probably Visma Visma.
- [56:02]
B
9. So 47% of them UAE 5, Red Bull 2. NEOS 2. Quick step 1.
- [56:11]
A
But sorry to interrupt, but Christian Niemann has been a ds. He's part of a group that has structured and worked and planned all this to step out. Everybody has to start somewhere, right? But I just see there's, there's, it's, it's, it's too many unexperienced people together for these roles right now, is my opinion.
- [56:41]
B
Well, we'll come back to that. It's a good point. So keep going. Since 2023, it's even crazier. Grand Tours race 10, Visma's won six. So 60% of them UAE three, Red Bull one also shows you how hard it is for teams like Lidl. I mean there's only been 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 teams that won Grand Tour since 2023. Since 2023, I mean, it is just really concentrated. The thing about that, I was thinking about Visma and just if I was Gershon Neiman, what would I do? So he's a, he's a sport director. And do you remember this guy, Moraine Zaman? He was kind of the head of, Head of racing, head of performance at Visma. He leaves. They replace him with kind of like an aggregate of people. Now Gersha Niemann leaves Mark Rafe gets promoted into his spot. And it's kind of what you're saying. You're like, like, like one guy leaves and he gets replaced. But then now you start to get more and more inexperienced people replacing them. But if you were Gersha Nieman and you were offered this role and you're at Visma and you think, I don't know if it's going to get any better than this. That's frankly what I would be worried about. That's true, yeah.
- [57:47]
A
I mean, listen, I, I, I'm not, I'm not saying, I mean, listen, Nirman makes in his interest the best possible choice German company in it. In the long run, he has had a lot of success at Visma. Visma is not renewing or they're in search of a new sponsor, as we all know. So for Niemann, on a personal level, I think the choice, I mean, it's the chance of a lifetime for him, you know, so why not take it, you know, and obviously he's also going to have a better contract for sure. You know, I'm, I'm just saying that the decision being made on, on the, on the higher level to put these people there is not the smartest one. It's not the smartest one. Yeah.
- [58:34]
B
Yes. Because think of Richard Pluga. He's the president, GM CEO of Visma. You know, he wasn't quite, he was, he was not qualified. He just ended up with the team because nobody wanted it. And clearly he's done an amazing job. The thing though, if you're Gershon Neiman, you probably trust your boss. You'd say, this guy is good at what he does and you probably want to trust your boss. And it's like, nothing against, I don't know, Andy Schleck. I've never met him. He's a great bike rider. What I feel, I just, I, that's, that's the thing that I would think twice about if I was Gerson even. I'd say if I stick close to Richard Pluga, probably going to be okay. Now you go to Lidl, who knows? Yeah. As you said, who knows what's been promised to Lidl?
- [59:16]
A
Yeah.
- [59:19]
B
I would find it a tough decision if I was him. Because you've had a lot of success. Viseman's maybe not renewing. Are we gonna, what's going to happen to this team? Am I going to be out of a job in a year and a half? That wouldn't be that fun. So I guess he felt like he had to do it. I can see why he did it. I could see why people would be upset about it. But it's, it is definitely a messy situation.
- [59:40]
A
Yeah, Yeah. I think the, the Nearman situation is, is, you know, it's, I think it's understandable. But I. I think it would have been made. Made a lot more sense if it was in combination with Luca.
- [59:55]
B
Yes. You know. Yeah.
- [59:56]
A
Him coming in and having to do everything and then Andy Schleck without any experience having to be the CEO. We'll see. Maybe I'll have to swallow my words, but. And I will gladly do so if that's the case.
- [60:10]
B
Yeah. When your CEO and your GM are brand new, that's a lot harder than if it's Luca Gertalina overseen Gershon Neiman. That would be, you think, a better situation. Visma. Visma's been losing a lot of guys. Like in addition they lost Jonas Vinaard's coach to Red Bull. I believe a key left the beginning of the year. We found out a few weeks ago he went to Red Bull. Do you think that's just. They don't have the financial firepower to compete with these other teams.
- [60:38]
A
I mean people, people like to go for new adventures, you know. The nutritionist is also leaving for a little trek. Nutritionist of Bisma, the very long standing trainer with. With Red Bull. Also German goes from Red Bull to Little Track. So they're hiring a lot of people, mostly Germans.
- [61:00]
B
So basically if you're a successful German in the, in the world tour, they're coming for you probably with a big contract, I would assume.
- [61:07]
A
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
- [61:09]
B
Did well now that I'm thinking about it. How did UNOX approach this? Because they have a very unique situation too where they're Norwegian, Swedish, I guess maybe they don't have any Swedish writers, but Danish, Norwegian team, they hire a lot of staff from those countries. Did they go out and poach people or did they just kind of find.
- [61:29]
A
I didn't know.
- [61:30]
B
Yeah, but that's a team that's been really successful. I. Yeah. This. I don't know. This model doesn't. It's just from the outside you're like, oh boy. This is a lot of new people getting pried away from different teams. I don't know how this is going to go. And as I just said, it is of still a. Despite all of these, this movement is a very concentrated number of teams that are actually winning these biggest races. I'm curious to see if this catapults Little. Are they a super team now? I don't know. I'm curious to watch, that's for sure.
- [62:03]
A
We will see.
- [62:04]
B
Do you think Felix Goll is going to go there?
- [62:08]
A
I mean he's. I didn't know he was out of contract. Listen, if he has the chance, I would take it. You know, it's going to be a great contract, three year deal. Probably money will be, I mean, it will be over his market value. But we need to check also we need to see if the level of Felix Gall is the second place in the Giro is maybe his maximum. You know, if I did some research, Spencer, because, you know, we're talking about little. We're also talking about track. You know, Trek has had teams and I assume they're still an important part of, part of this team.
- [62:52]
B
I mean, they own 25% of it. They must be.
- [62:55]
A
Yeah, so. So it's, it's been, it's been since 2013 that Trek has won a Grand Tour now. Trek has won in total 14 grand tours. Thirteen of those was with this guy here with me. And then one was the year after I left with Chris Horner.
- [63:17]
B
So that you. Yeah, so that's the only one that you were not.
- [63:20]
A
That's the only one. And I would even dare to say that, you know, I had a small part in the coaching role during that Vuelta of Chris Horner. It's time for Trek to, to win another Grand Tour, guys. It's been, it's been 13 years, so.
- [63:38]
B
Well, that is a very good point because I, I had not realized it had been that long. I mean, you could imagine they're feeling a little restless, that it's been a long time since they won a Grand Tour. So Alberto Contador, he switched to Specialized, is that right?
- [63:54]
A
Yeah.
- [63:55]
B
And then he wins in 2014 on 2014 Vuelta on a Specialized bike.
- [64:01]
A
Yeah, well, he was on Saxo bank or Tinko for.
- [64:05]
B
Yes.
- [64:06]
A
Yeah.
- [64:06]
B
Because he left Astana, went to Saxo and, and then he started to crash and then he couldn't beat Chris Frim, but he was doing well otherwise. Anything else, Johan, before we take off?
- [64:19]
A
No, I think we've covered most of it. So do you think tomorrow, tomorrow the Giro women. What, what that brings. That's going to be interesting.
- [64:28]
B
Yeah, it is going to be interesting. Do you think Gershon Neiman not involved at all with the team anymore?
- [64:35]
A
Like, is he just totally stonewalled in, in Visma.
- [64:38]
B
Yeah, Visma.
- [64:40]
A
Yeah. I think, you know, once you make that decision, once you make that announcement that it's, that's game over, man. It's like, you know, you're, you're. They're probably going to send them to some races, I don't know. But he's not going to be involved in any decision making anymore, I think. I mean, I wouldn't, I Wouldn't. I wouldn't. You know, they have. They have enough staff, you know, at Visma.
- [65:02]
B
Yeah. They can't have planned for this, though. And then I guess, yeah, everybody next man up. Like, everybody moves up a spot and you move on. But not ideal heading into the Tour. But you know what we saw at the Vault or the Giro, if you're Jonas Finnegaard, you probably doesn't matter, right? Doesn't matter who's in the team car talking to you. That guy is going to be pretty good.
- [65:26]
A
No matter what, stays calm. Who can, you know, transmit the message. The strategy, usually. Usually the strategy of these stages is always first in discussion with the leader. Let's do this. This. What do you think? And then you have to have a DS who kind of is able to relate that message before the stage and then during the stage to the riders. It's not that difficult.
- [65:54]
B
We got to drive the car too, right?
- [65:58]
A
Well, I mean, nowadays they don't. I mean, nowadays the guys who do the talking are sitting in the driver's seat. In the passenger seat.
- [66:04]
B
That makes more sense, actually.
- [66:05]
A
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [66:07]
B
Glad to see that someone had that idea. Like, hey, maybe we shouldn't have our coach. NFL coaches aren't driving a car down a mountain while they're doing it. Probably helps with your attention span, but. Thanks, Johan. And we'll be back next Friday to talk about that. We didn't even mention this. The dofine starts on Sunday, so we'll be a few stages into the dofine. It always starts a little bit slow, and then we'll be getting to the meat of it right when we have that next episode. So I'm looking forward to it.
- [66:36]
A
I think the first stage is a mountain stage this year.
- [66:38]
B
Is it really?
- [66:39]
A
I think so.
- [66:41]
B
On Sunday. Mountain stage. Hold on, hold on a second. That would be quite. I mean, I guess they changed the name. So anything's on the. Anything's on the table. It is a pretty hard stage. The Last climb is 8k at 7 and a half percent. Do you know where. Where is this?
- [67:05]
A
I don't know. I haven't checked.
- [67:06]
B
Oh, wow.
- [67:08]
A
In.
- [67:11]
B
Well, I guess the problem was it was not in the doan anymore. And then they weren't making any money from that name. The third stage is a. The first stage is the mountain stage. We'll see what happens. I'm curious to see what happens. Third stage is a time trial. Fourth stage is a tough stage, maybe not a mountain stage, technically fifth stage. So Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. So we will record right after stage six, which is a summit finish 6k at seven and a half percent. We'll probably know who the serious GC contender, if not the overall winner is by that point. So we'll talk about it then. This summer. Don't squeeze in. Spread out.
- [68:01]
A
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B
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