Session 73: Jay Shetty

Summary

Podcast Summary: Therapuss with Jake Shane – Session 73: Jay Shetty

Introduction

In Episode 73 of Therapuss with Jake Shane, host Jake Shane sits down with renowned speaker, author, and former monk Jay Shetty. This deeply introspective and occasionally humorous session delves into themes of mindfulness, managing negative thoughts, the impact of technology on our mental well-being, and navigating the complexities of intimacy and relationships. Released on May 22, 2025, this episode offers listeners valuable insights into personal growth and emotional resilience.

Journey to Mind Mastery

Jay Shetty begins by recounting his transformative journey that began during his university years. Attending a talk by a monk changed his life's trajectory, emphasizing two core goals: mastering the mind and emotions, and serving others.

"[02:15] B: ...meeting someone that you were so attracted to, but it wasn't physical... he was saying, there's two goals in life. One is to master the mind and master your emotions. And the second is to serve others and help other people."

Shetty explains how mastering the mind involves recognizing and managing the vast number of daily thoughts, many of which are negative and repetitive.

"[04:13] B: ...Humans have 60 to 80,000 thoughts per day... 80% of those are negative... We've never, ever been taught how to manage our thoughts..."

Techniques for Managing Thoughts

Jay introduces practical strategies for controlling negative thought patterns:

1. Identifying Repetitive Thoughts: Recognize recurring negative thoughts as signals indicating underlying needs, such as more rest.

2. Affirming and Taking Action: Acknowledge the negative thought and pair it with a constructive action to prevent the thought spiral.

   "[07:05] B: ...now that I'm aware of the pattern, I add an 'and'—'I'm so tired and I'm going to go to bed early'..."

3. Priming Through Actions: Engage in actions that align with positive outcomes, preparing the mind to handle genuine discomfort effectively.

   "[20:53] B: ...the second step is adding an action... an action you are going to follow through with because now I've saved myself from repeating that thought."

Living as a Monk: Insights on Self-Love and Service

Shetty shares his three-year experience living as a monk, highlighting the profound impact it had on his self-awareness and compassion.

"[23:14] B: ...we lived across India, UK and Europe... It was a beautiful experiment in surrender and detachment... It was truly one of the best investments I ever made."

He explains that self-love emerges from confronting and embracing the parts of oneself that are difficult to accept.

"[51:20] B: Self love to me is not possible until you visit all the places of yourself you don't like... visiting them with grace, compassion, and love."

The Impact of Technology on Mental Health

A significant portion of the conversation addresses how smartphones and constant connectivity contribute to anxiety and disrupt mindfulness. Shetty emphasizes the importance of limiting phone usage, especially in the morning and before bed, to maintain mental clarity.

"[39:56] B: ...don't look at your phone first thing in the morning. And don't look at your phone lasting at night."

He introduces the 5-4-3-2-1 technique as a simple yet effective method to ground oneself and stay present.

"[31:23] B: ...look around at five things you can see, four things you can touch, three things you can hear, two things you can smell, and one thing you can taste."

Navigating Intimacy and Relationships

The discussion shifts to personal struggles with intimacy and dating anxiety. Jake expresses his fears of rejection and vulnerability, which hinder his ability to connect deeply with others.

"[53:18] A: ...I feel so embarrassed of my own... how I was behaving... I felt so unattractive."

Shetty reassures him by framing vulnerability as a strength, encouraging Jake to seek relationships with those who appreciate his authentic self.

"[66:51] B: Your greatest superpower is your ability to have this struggle... The right person will come and hold it."

Practical Advice for Personal Growth

Throughout the episode, Jay offers actionable advice:

• Mindfulness Practices: Incorporate breath work, visualization, and mantra meditation into daily routines to enhance emotional regulation.

• Healthy Technology Use: Create boundaries with devices to prevent them from dictating mental states.

• Building Meaningful Relationships: Focus on quality over quantity in friendships and romantic relationships, valuing mutual support and understanding.

"[84:18] B: And realize that there's so much more than that. And I think we learned that you are really vulnerable, really thoughtful, and that you have more superpowers than you're aware of."

Conclusion and Key Takeaways

The episode wraps up with Jake and Jay reflecting on the profound lessons learned:

1. Limit Phone Usage: Avoid starting and ending the day with your phone to maintain mental hygiene.

2. Embrace Vulnerability: Use your authentic self as a strength to attract meaningful relationships.

3. Practice Mindfulness: Regular meditation and grounding techniques can significantly reduce anxiety and improve emotional well-being.

4. Value Real Connections: Seek relationships that offer mutual support, understanding, and genuine connection rather than superficial interactions.

"[87:20] B: And you may be like, I don't want to know about any of that stuff. You can enjoy that respective time. You don't need everyone to have access to you in the morning. That's what we're trying to get to."

Notable Quotes

• "[04:13] B: ...Humans have 60 to 80,000 thoughts per day... 80% of those are negative..."

• "[31:23] B: ...look around at five things you can see, four things you can touch, three things you can hear, two things you can smell, and one thing you can taste."

• "[51:20] B: Self love to me is not possible until you visit all the places of yourself you don't like."

• "[66:51] B: Your greatest superpower is your ability to have this struggle... The right person will come and hold it."

Final Thoughts

Session 73 offers a blend of deep psychological insights and practical strategies for managing mental health and fostering meaningful relationships. Jay Shetty's experiences and wisdom provide a roadmap for listeners seeking to navigate the complexities of modern life with grace and resilience.

Transcript

[A]

Hi and welcome back to Therapist. Tonight we have on Jay Shetty who literally sat here and changed my life. We talk a lot about meditation and we talk about, talk a lot about controlling the mind. But then we are get, we get into stuff like dating and intimacy and whatever and it's just a really beautiful episode. And I'm so happy that Jay came. He is the best. And if you want to see him on tour, he is currently on the On Purpose live tour which might be coming to a city near you. But yeah, the episode was great. I kind of just want to let you guys just go into it and experience it, but without giving too much away. But it's amazing to see if I'm coming to a city near you. Go to pass that post.com and click live with Jake Shane. And to submit a Tell me what's wrong. Go to pass that post.com and click tell me what's wrong. Leave a name, a number if you're feeling fancy. Enjoy the episode. I love you. Pussies. Hi, welcome back to Therapist. Today we have host of the award winning podcast On Purpose. He is about to head out on his first ever podcast live tour and he is just the greatest of all time. Please welcome Jay Shetty.

[B]

Oh, Jake, that's so sweet. Thank you so much.

[A]

Oh my God. And I forgot to include that you're a New York Times bestselling author.

[B]

You don't. It doesn't matter.

[A]

It matters to me.

[B]

It really doesn't matter. It was, it was, it was perfect and heartfelt. So that's more.

[A]

It was heartfelt. I'm like anxious for some reason, but I'm really excited that you're here.

[B]

Oh, I'm really grateful to be here. And I know we were dming a couple of months ago or whatever and I'm such a fan of what you're doing and how you're getting these incredible messages out there in this really nuanced way. And it's, it's beautiful to watch. So thank you.

[A]

You think I'm getting incredible messages?

[B]

100%. You're having an impact. I feel like you're able to talk about really meaningful stuff, but make it hilarious, make it funny. That's the greatest superpower. So congrats. Yeah, truly.

[A]

Thank you. Do you hear that? Meaningful meaning? Well, I, we. I have so many questions for you, but I kind of want to start. So your journey kind of started when you were in university, right. And you heard someone speak and then you kind of like adapted this entire new lifestyle.

[B]

Absolutely. That's Right. You want me to tell you about it?

[A]

Please.

[B]

I was, I was born and raised in London and I, I was. I always describe myself, I was an average kid. I was doing everything under the sun, messing around, having fun. But when you grew up in an Indian family, the most important thing is getting good grades at school. So I always managed to get good grades at school. And I really thought that I was going to graduate, get a safe job, get married, have kids, like. Like do the thing. And all of that was kind of flipped on its head when I would go and get invited to go to talks at university.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And this is before podcasting. This is early days. So you actually went to events. You know, you heard people talk in person. And I'm at this event and I hear this monk talk. And I was kind of skeptical, or in the beginning, maybe not skeptical, but I was a bit like, I don't know what I'm going to get from this. I don't know if it's going to resonate. I've grown up around monks. I'd seen monks before, but I'd never really met a monk or heard a monk speak in that way. And I was so blown away. And it was just like meeting someone that you were so attracted to, but it wasn't physical. And I was like, wait a minute, how am I so attracted to you? Like I'm, you know, 18, 19 year old kid.

[A]

Oh, you were that young? So you just had gotten to university.

[B]

Absolutely. And you're like this. At the time, he was maybe in his 30s, and externally, there was nothing attractive about him. He was wearing robes, he shaved his head. But I was just like, wow, everything he was coming out of his mouth. I was just thinking, this is profound. And there were two things that stood out to me. One was he. He was saying, there's two goals in life. One is to master the mind and master your emotions. And the second is to serve others and help other people. And I thought, I've never heard that before. I'd met people who were beautiful, famous, rich, strong. I'd heard famous people talk before, but this was the first time that I felt he was happy and content. And I thought to myself, I want to know what he's drinking, I want to know what he's doing. That's what changed the trajectory of my life.

[A]

Wait, so what did you. What did he mean by like, master the mind?

[B]

So he was basically talking about the idea of, think about this for a second. And I'm sure you can relate. Humans have 60 to 80,000 thoughts per day.

[A]

That checks out for me.

[B]

Yeah. More or less.

[A]

Probably more.

[B]

Probably more, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And 80% of those are negative. I would.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And 80% of those are repetitive, also, correct. Yes. So we're having the same negative thought again and again and again. It's not even like a new thought.

[C]

Right.

[B]

It's the same thought. Like, it could be as deep as, I'm not good enough.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Or it could be as silly as, like, oh, my gosh. I'm just really stressed about this one thing I did at work in this meeting, and I keep overthinking, and I wish I didn't do that. Right. And. Oh, did this just happen, like, literally 20 minutes ago? What was it? Tell me. I can't. Oh, my gosh. So. So that's. That's kind of how I operate. Am I. Am I reading your mind at the moment? Yeah. So this is. That's like the reality of our lives. And we've never, ever been taught how to manage our thoughts, Right. You're told you're not taught how to manage your time either, but you learn all these subjects in school, but no one ever taught us how to manage our thoughts. So these thoughts spiral, not just for days, for weeks, for months and years. And when I learned to spend time with him, I learned how to train my thoughts for peace, for purpose, for calm, for stress relief, for shifting gears. And it almost felt like I was having a new brain, almost because I had the ability to kind of press pause on a thought, to press rewind, to press fast forward, like, to actually be able to have some navigation with my thoughts, which I never thought was possible. So that's what it means to master the. The mind and emotions.

[A]

How did you. Like, how did you do that?

[B]

Okay. Yeah. So first step is figure out the patterns or the thought that keeps coming up. So, for example, a thought that kept coming up for me for a long time was, I'm so tired. I'm so overworked, I'm exhausted. And that kind of. You see that kind of cascade into burnout, right? So it starts with, I'm so tired, and next week I'm exhausted. Third week I'm burnt out. Fourth week, I don't want to get out of bed. And we all feel that spiral. First we have to figure out what's that thought that repeats itself and rents space in your mind more than any other thought. So I'm going to choose that thought as an example now that I know that thought. That thought is actually a signal. It's a Sign of the most obvious thing in the world. I need more rest. But what do we do? We say that thought in the morning when we wake up, you look at the alarm clock and you go, I'm so tired, exhausted. Now at 9am you're having a morning coffee and you're going, I'm so tired. Now at midday you're like, I'm gonna have to skip lunch. I'm so busy. I'm so tired.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You get to 6pm and you're thinking, I'm so tired. And somehow at 10:37pm you click next episode on Netflix.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And watch another show. And then you're up till 1am and it keeps going. So what do I do with that thought? Second step. Now that I'm aware of the pattern, I get to add an and I'm so tired and an action. So I'm affirming, I'm still valuing. I'm acknowledging that I'm tired. I can't lie to myself and say I'm feeling great. I've got energy. You can't lie to yourself. Your thoughts are smarter than that. I'm accepting my thought, but I'm adding an action. And I'm going to go to bed early and I'm going to cancel the next three evenings of plans and I'm going to have to let someone down this weekend. I'm going to make an action. Action. And I'm actually going to follow through with it because now I've saved myself from repeating that thought.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I can keep saying that thought all I want and I'll never give myself rest. Does that make sense?

[A]

No, it makes complete sense. Can I tell you what I'm thinking about? So for the thought that gets repeated in my brain all the time is like. Like everything's gonna be taken away from me or I'm gonna fail and I'm gonna lose my career and I'm gonna lose my job. I don't know how to like and that. You know what I mean?

[B]

Let's do it right now.

[A]

Okay. I'm gonna get canceled and. And my life would be over.

[B]

No, no. But that's not an action.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

So we're accepting the tour.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's possible that everyone can get canceled.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So that's real. I don't want to lie to anyone about it. It's real.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And what's an action that you're gonna do?

[A]

I. I literally don't know.

[B]

Okay. So can I help you out?

[A]

Yes, please.

[B]

Okay, great. So here's the first Thing I want to say to you, Jake, you are far too talented for your career to ever be over. You're far too talented for someone to steal all of this amazing work that you've done away from you. And you're far too gifted and have too much to give people in the world for anyone to think that they could take that away. I just want to set that straight before I even give you an end.

[A]

And I really mean that.

[B]

I do mean that. I do mean that. And I'll tell you why. When I first moved to la, I met so many managers and I met so many agents, and I met so many. The. The industry word is talent, but I met so many individuals who are talented and gifted. And the amount of managers and agents that used to say to people like you and people like me, you've got six months, make the most of it.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Your career is going to be over after it. The amount of young people I know that have been told that at age 18, age 16, age 21, that you have six months, you have 12 months, make the most of it, make all the money you can, and then forget about it. And the reality is, not only have I seen those people last far longer, what I've actually noticed is that those people have reinvented themselves, they've refound themselves. Sure, it may not be that you do a podcast forever, right? But when you have something you want to share with the world and give yourself to the world, you're going to keep doing that forever. So I do mean that. And so what the and is is saying, and I'll find a new way, and I'll find a new strength, and I'll find a new medium, and I'll find a new platform, and I'll find a new. A new. A new. A new way, a new medium, a new platform, a new. I'll find a new message, whatever it may be. Because what we try and do is we try and do everything to avoid the thing we're scared of. Yeah, that's what we're trying to do. Our mind is thinking, how do I not get canceled? How do I not get my career to be over? How do I make sure that I'm not irrelevant?

[C]

Right?

[B]

And that's where the overthinking comes in. Whereas what my technique is, is you accept it. That could even happen. And I'm still going to live tomorrow, I'm still going to breathe tomorrow, I'm still going to be able to find a way to change someone's life tomorrow. I'm still going to find a way to make someone smile, to make someone laugh. And if I've got to start back at one person again, that's okay. Because when I can make one person laugh, that will become two, that will become 20, that will become 2 million. And it will keep happening.

[C]

Right?

[B]

And I believe that's true for you. And I know you may not believe it right now, and I don't need you to believe it right now, but I want you to start adding that thought. I want you to add that thought of, yeah, that could be possible and the game is not over.

[C]

Right.

[A]

I feel like it just like impacts as how I live my life. I feel like I every. Like it impacts everything that comes out of my mouth and everything I do. It's like that's always in the back of my head. But that's really good advice.

[B]

I feel like, well, anytime you need me to say it again, just call me up.

[A]

Oh, don't. Don't tell me that.

[B]

No, but I think it's a message everyone needs to hear. I don't think it's you. I don't think it's just me and you. It's. It's everyone, right? Like, even someone who's just started a new job right now, maybe they're out of college, they're starting their new job or they're applying for new jobs. Everyone has that fear.

[A]

Well, I've always had that fear. Like, even when I worked corporate, like before all this, like, I always thought I was going to get fired. So I feel like in my line of work now, like, how I view, like a cancellation is like getting fired. It's like always in that thought. Like, it was kind of like when I was in high school, like, I thought I was like, I always had this, like, am I going to get expelled? Or like, am I going to not get into college? And then when I had a job, I was like, am I going to get fired? And now it's like, am I going to get canceled? So it's all like, cut from the same cloth of like, I don't like, am I going to get in trouble?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I get that. Yeah. And I think it's all about. I feel like the only way people continue is when they have something they care more about. And that's what I would encourage you to continue to look for is like, what do you care so much about that you would never allow yourself to stop doing what you love? Like, nothing's worth stopping doing what you love because you care about it so much you believe in it so much. I'm assuming you believe in what you do.

[A]

Yeah, of course.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or else I wouldn't be able to do it.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's what gets you through. It's not the avoiding it. It's not the trying to figure out how to make sure it never happens. It's the fact that you just care about making people laugh, making people smile, making someone's day. And you're going to keep doing that anyway. But before I started this, Jake, I was like, I used to sit in rooms like this and give talks to. First time I ever gave a talk, zero people showed up in a room this size.

[A]

Are you serious?

[B]

Genuinely. And I practiced my speech as if it had. The room was full. And then the second time I did it, no one showed up again. And I practiced as if the room was full. And then the third time, two people came and the fourth time five people came. And then it grew and grew and grew. And I post these pictures sometimes on Instagram of how it started and how it's going.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Just to remind people that there were loads of times I had to sit there. And I did it because I loved it. I didn't stick it through because I hoped one day there'd be a million people.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I'm sure you've done that. Tell me about your journey. I'm sure there's been so many moments. I see you now touring and, you know, selling out venues and all the rest of it. I'm guessing it didn't start there.

[A]

It kind of started like, as well. No, it started as, like, it started as like a joke, honestly. And like, I always talk about, like, it was funny because, like, the week before everything kind of like, I don't know if this similar thing happened to you, but, like, everything kind of shifted over, like, the course of a week. You know, like that one week where like, suddenly, like, everyone's paying attention. That, like, kind of happened with me. And I was. But right before that week, like, I was very content and I was very happy. Like, I didn't want anything more. I wasn't like. Like, of course, like, I wanted something more, but I wasn't always thinking about it and I wasn't very anxious and like, I had my job and I had, like, my Instagram account, my tick tock, and I was just kind of saying whatever I wanted and doing whatever I wanted. And then it. It's kind of like it all blew up very fast over a week. So I think I kind of got used to this idea of like this instant gratification, which is sometimes hard for me to, like, grapple with. Am I making sense?

[B]

Yeah, you are making sense. Absolutely.

[A]

Okay. Because I feel like I'm not making sense, but, like, I. It's. I did these skits on Tick Tock and like, that really took me off from like 60, 000 followers to a million. And then obviously, like, the talent agencies and everything kind of started falling into place. And then the touring is kind of where I, like, found purpose. I was like, oh, I really like being on stage and talking to people.

[B]

What was it that you liked about it the most?

[A]

Hearing their laughs in real time.

[B]

Nice.

[A]

So, like, it was like, it felt like I was like in. Back in the living room with my best friends, like, making them laugh.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I know it's not like a standard comedy show, but, like, it is kind of like just hanging out with me. And I think that's like my favorite part of it at all. Do you like touring?

[B]

Yeah. What I love about what you're saying, though, is that we both love the same thing about touring. Even though I'm not necessarily making people laugh. It's the intimacy.

[A]

Yeah, you.

[B]

It makes you feel like you're in your living room making your friends laugh. Like, I visualized the intimate rooms and spaces that I had that were kind of like this, where I'd speak to three people and I'd pour my heart into it and spend three hours and four hours with them. And so when I'm on stage, I. I'm always trying to make each person feel like they're the only person in the room.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Like, it's such an intimate, individual experience. I love touring. I went on a world tour two years ago. We did nearly 40 cities across the world. Went everywhere from Australia to India to Dubai to Europe, of course, all over the states. And the thing I loved about it most is humans are so much more alike than they are different. Everyone always asks me, like, what's the quirks of this city or this country? And there were some. Like, when I went to Australia, everyone banters back. If you make a joke with someone in Australia, they're coming back for you. Oh, and it's awesome. And it's great, like, really good energy. And then if. When I was in Florida, it was crazy. And this. This lady had this really emotional moment with me on stage, but then wanted a picture where she was doing the splits and then the headstand and all this other stuff. Florida and. Yeah. And then I was in. Then when I was in Boston, I would walk out into the. Walk out into the audience. As parts of my show, they're very interactive. I bring people up on stage. We do loads of experiments and interactive sessions. I'd walk out to the audience and loads of guys would, like, literally grab my hand and be like, take my girlfriend on stage. Like, literally just go. Grabbing me by the hand. And so that was the most. That was the place I got touched the most. But it was just. There were all these quirks, but at the same time, the heart of the show, the parts that moved people, the parts that connected with people, the parts that resonated with people, were exactly the same. And so that's what I love about touring, is seeing how in a world where we think everything's so divided and we think that people are so different, and we think that there's so many things that are pulling us apart, we actually all. We all resonate deeply with the same things. And so that's what I love about touring the most.

[A]

What do you think? Like, we all resonate with similarly.

[B]

I think at the core of it, we're all moved by the same things. There's a reason why we all be on TikTok crying at a dog video, right? Like, there's a reason for that. There's a reason why that video went viral in the first place, because it made everyone feel something. And I think when you think about what 99.9% of humans want to feel, we want to feel love, we want to feel seen, and we want to feel understood. And when you can do that through comedy, as you do, or when you can do that through insight and wisdom, as I try to do, or when you can do that in all the beautiful ways that musicians do and actors do, when people feel that that's what they're really looking for. And I think we're looking for spaces in the world that make us feel seen, heard and understood. And you do that in your way. And I try and do that in my way. Yeah.

[A]

I definitely, like, love giving people that space. I feel like that is actually, now that I'm thinking about it, like, kind of like, I like to give people to be seen through. Like, it's okay to, like, complain and be a sometimes, you know, which is the polar opposite of your message.

[B]

But, like, no. No, it's not. I think it's good for people to vent.

[A]

I. It's all I. I love to do it.

[B]

Who. Who's. Who's your venting. Who's your venting partner? Who do you vent to?

[A]

A Lot of people, it depends. I usually talk someone to someone and then once they get tired of hearing it, I just go down the next to the line.

[B]

Well, well, you've learned a good technique. So yeah, if you're going to vent, spread the vent.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The biggest mistake people make is that they put all their venting and all their pressure onto one person. And that is so paralyzing and debilitating for that person, you know, that they can't handle it. And then we think they don't care about us or they don't have time and, and the truth is they just don't have the capacity. And so what I recommend to everyone is know who in your life you go, what you go to them for and make sure you know who you are for other people too. And I think that a lot of us, if we spread our venting and if everyone did that, you'd actually find, oh, this person's really good. When I have a relationship issue, this person's really good. When I feel anxious, this person's really good. And so what I often say to people is write down on a piece of paper everything you ever need help with and then write down a name of different people who can help you solve those problems.

[A]

My hand would fall off.

[B]

And make sure that you're doing them back. Make sure you also know what you give to those different people. Because I'm sure there's some people that you're just there to make them laugh and then there's someone that vents to you and opens their heart and then there's someone else that someone that you just love to hang around with. And so it's really important to figure out what different roles people play in our life and what roles we play in theirs.

[A]

I have a question for you.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So back to what you were saying about like the, the how to master your mind. How do you. Cuz like I, I'm. I was thinking, I was just like ruminating on it. Sorry if I'm like jumping around. But like I, how do you like believe that? Cuz like I can say all I want like oh, and I'll be fine or and I'll do. But like I, how do I like force myself to believe that?

[B]

So it's not and I'll be fine. It's. And an action, that's the really key part. It has to be a practical action that you're going to take. It's not just saying it to yourself. So I don't believe in you sitting there going I'm scared of getting canceled, but I'll be okay because that doesn't work. Like, your mind goes, well, what if I'm not? What if it doesn't work out? So it's like, what action am I going to take? I am going to keep making three people laugh if that's all. That's who shows up. I am still going to go on tour, even if it goes small again. Right. I'm still gonna make a video even if there's only 3,000 people left. Because guess what? You started at zero, right? You've already done that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I remember one morning I woke up, I was just about to hit a million followers at this time. So I was at, like, 984,000 on Instagram, and I was just about to hit a million followers, and I woke up and my whole account was wiped, and there was no posts, no followers. Everything was gone. Like, zero on everything. And I remember talking to my wife about it so she can vouch for the story. I was talking to my wife about it. I was like, oh, have you got a glitch on Instagram today? And she was like, no, no, mine's fine. And I'm messaging my friends just to see if it was a glitch. And I was like, no, it's fine. This was like, six years ago now or something like that. And I'm texting all my friends just to make sure. And then I realize it's just me. And I'm thinking, okay. And I took a beat and I was like, okay, I'll start again. Okay, that's it. We start again. We go again. And I really believe that in that moment, because I love doing what I do. I love the content I was creating. I knew it was resonating with people. I was like, I can do that again because I've done it before. You've started at zero before. You can do it again. And so the action is saying, I am going to keep creating stuff that I believe in, even if three people like it, Even if I upload a TikTok tomorrow and it doesn't do well, I'm gonna still allow it to be out there because I really care about what I'm doing. So it's taking an action that puts you into that discomfort right now, so that when and if the real discomfort comes, you're already ready. It's called priming.

[A]

Okay, Amazing.

[B]

Sorry, I took you an attorney. No, please.

[A]

That's what this is all about. It's all about tangents. When you. Okay, so back to when you were at University. And this monk came and spoke to you. Did you then live as a monk for a few years?

[B]

Yeah. So I finished college, I graduated, but I missed my graduation ceremony because I went and became a monk for three years.

[A]

What was that like?

[B]

It was. I mean, we traveled a lot, so we lived across India, UK and Europe for those three years. And it was truly one of the best investments I ever made. I thought I was going to do it for the rest of my life. So I had a very different view going in. But now when I look back, I feel so lucky. And it will sound crazy to everyone because you're waking up at 4am you have two sets of robes. You wear one, you wash one. All your possessions fit inside a gym locker.

[C]

Wow.

[B]

And you don't even have your own bedroom or bed. You sleep in a room that's about three times the size of this. And there's like sometimes 30 people in it or in a bigger room. If you're traveling, there could be 200 people in it.

[A]

Well, if you get hot, you deal.

[B]

With it like there is no. There's no ac. At least in India there'll be fans because they still use the old school method in the monasteries. And it was just. It was a beautiful experiment in surrender and detachment in the sense that you don't get to choose what you eat, you don't get to choose where you sleep. You put a mat down and fall asleep wherever in the room that there's space left. And it creates this really beautiful part in the mind which just goes, I have no control and I'm not in charge and I'm still alive. And it's like a really beautiful realization.

[A]

And then what is your. Like, what is your day to day like as.

[B]

Yeah. So the morning hours are usually spent in meditation from like 4 till like 8am and so there's group meditation and private meditation. There's a class every day at 8 to 9 which is based on spiritual wisdom, which is 5,000 years old. So you're learning from a teacher or mentor. And then for the rest of the day, you do different chores, cleaning things around the monastery. But then you go out. So you. You go and feed homeless children. You go and help people on the streets, especially in India. You go and cook for them. You go and take part in all of these beautiful philanthropic ventures. That was so meaningful. And that's what I was saying earlier is about mastering the mind in the morning and then serving for the rest of the day.

[A]

Oh, yes, okay.

[B]

It was really beautiful. So I remember, like Going to schools and giving kids food who don't have a packed lunch, who can't afford meals. And you'd look at the expression on this kid's face, and it would just fill you up for the rest of the day that you're like, all right, I'm going to wake up tomorrow morning again, and I'm going to go out and do it again. It's one of the most beautiful, beautiful things that's really beautiful. So that I want to take you to as well. Can we shake on that?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

There we go. All right.

[A]

I would love that. I would really love that.

[B]

Yeah, it's really special. It's like this. It's the most, like. It's almost like we've got so obsessed with ourselves and our anxiety and all of our overthinking is because we feel like being. This is the main character and all that matters.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And when I lived as a monk, I felt like life was about everyone else. And so you don't even think about your problems because you're out there helping other people and serving other people and making a difference. It's. It's liberating almost, because you forget about your challenges and problems while you're helping others with this.

[A]

That is really. I would love to do that.

[B]

Yeah. It's really.

[A]

I feel like I also think of myself as the main character all the time, and I need to get out of that. So, like, that sounds amazing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So what Tell. I'm very curious about the meditation aspect because my parents and everyone has always told me to try to meditate because they said it's very good for your anxiety as well. What. What is. Like, my worry is, like, when I meditate, like, I just get really tired, and then I, like, want to fall asleep sitting up. Like, what is, like, the goal of medic? Like, can you tell me a little more about meditation?

[B]

I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Well, first of all, I'm gonna say if you fall asleep during meditation, it's your body telling you you need sleep. Because what meditation is doing in the way you've done it is your mind and body are constantly at odds with each other. When you wake up in the morning, your mind says, God, I got so much to do. And your mind starts racing, and your body goes, I wish we were still in bed. Or you wake up and it's the opposite. You wake up and your body's running around, and your mind says, I wish we were still in bed. So all of us are experiencing our mind and body being out of sync. When you meditate, you're actually bringing your mind and your body into sync. So if you fall asleep, that's your body and mind saying, we need rest. And so when you meditate, whatever you feel is actually what you need at that moment in time. So the fact that you fell asleep while meditating, it's perfection. It's brilliant. Like, that's not a bad thing. You didn't do it wrong. What is the goal of meditation? There's three types of meditation that I was trained in and that I teach. And they all have a different goal. Breath work is for the body. It's to regulate our body. If you think about it, and I think I'll tell you this story because I think you and your community will appreciate it. I remember my first day of monk school and I saw a 10 year old monk teaching younger monks. And I was watching them and after the class I asked him, what were you teaching them? And he said it was their first day of school. And he asked me, what did you learn on your first day of school? And I was like, maybe like ABC or 1, 2, 3, I don't know, like I can't remember. And he said, well, on their first day of school, we teach them how to breathe. And I said, what do you mean? He said, well, if you think about your life and you think about every emotion, he said, every emotion is connected to your breath. He said, when you're happy, what changes your breath? When you're sad, what changes your breath? When you're anxious, what changes your breath? When you're elated and ecstatic, what changes your breath? Your breath is connected to every emotion in life. So if you learn how to manage your breath, you can navigate life. And so breath is all about learning how to regulate an emotion through our body. So if you think about it, when you're nervous or anxious, you're breathing fast and you're breathing shallow. That's what happens. We will breathe fast, our palms get sweaty. And so when you start exhaling for longer than you inhale, your heart rate slows down, it goes deeper, no more shallow breathing. And all of a sudden you go, oh, I actually have the time and space to react to this anxiety because I realize I've got rid of the physical stress and nervousness I was feeling. Now maybe I can go and talk to my manager to figure this out. Now maybe I can talk to my mom about it. Now maybe I can talk to my friend about it. I've actually created a space between the anxiety I feel and then actually having a Reaction to it. So that's what breath work does.

[A]

Oh, that's incredible. I think I need to do breath work.

[B]

Yeah, breath work is amazing. So if you want to relax. And by the way, I get stressed and nervous too. I practice this throughout the day. I will breathe out for longer than I breathe in. Should we do it together?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, so I want you to inhale, and I want you to inhale at your own pace, slowly.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

But I want you to exhale for longer than you inhale.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So inhale, exhale. Place your left palm on your stomach. And as you inhale, I want you to feel your eyes, or keep them open, Whatever you like. Okay, so as you inhale, as you inhale, feel your stomach come out. And as you exhale, feel it go in. As you inhale, feel your stomach go out. And as you exhale, feel your stomach go in. Open your eyes.

[A]

I definitely feel more relaxed.

[B]

And all we're trying to do. And that was just three breaths. All we're trying to do is create a space between that reaction that we have. Oh, my God, I'm so stressed. Oh, my God, I'm so nervous. Oh, my God. I have so much to do to then going, wait. I've dealt with it in my body. All of a sudden, everything's more calm. Now I can actually get with it. So that's breath work. The second one that I love is visualization. I do this a lot. And can I share a really simple technique with you?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So when I came in here, I did this, and now I do it so subconsciously that no one around me may even notice. But I do it to feel grounded in a space. It's called the 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 technique. So whenever you want to take a mental picture or whenever you want to feel grounded, follow this. When you walk into a space, look around at five things you can see. It could be a shade, a color, a shape, whatever it may be. And allow yourself to just become aware of five things you can see, then four things you can touch. So I touch this amazing octopus. Touch the chair, touch the table, touch your hand. And you're just becoming present through touch. Then three things I can hear.

[A]

I can hear you.

[B]

You.

[A]

I can hear. Not much else.

[B]

Some white noise.

[A]

Yeah, some white noise. And then I can hear the sound. Sound of my own voice. Does that count?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. And then two things I can smell. I smell some wood.

[A]

I smell wood, too.

[B]

I smell wood. There's a lot of good wood.

[A]

Some Old Spice.

[B]

Some Old Spice, yeah. Yeah. Old Not Old Spice, but yeah. Yeah. My fragrance, or whatever it may be.

[A]

And then smelled really good when you came in.

[B]

Thank you. Thank you so much. And then one thing. You can taste the popcorn I was just eating. Mine's a mint that I had before I walked in.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

And so as soon as you've done that, you've basically taken a mental picture. I've done this in some of the most beautiful places I've traveled to in the world. I can close my eyes and transport myself right there if I'm nervous about something. When I was coming on your show and I was really excited about it, I watched your show. I was watching a show already, but when I was coming on, I watched your show to get a feel of the set and the colors. I'd be around, and all of a sudden, I feel more comfortable here because I feel like I've been watching you anyway.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So I feel like I'm sitting somewhere uncomfortable. It's not new. It's not alien. If I hadn't done that, if I wasn't a fan, maybe I would have walked in and been like, oh, God, like, how do I sit? And where. You know, it's. You let go of that. So it's almost like a dress rehearsal in your mind.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

Or a mental picture.

[A]

Okay, I love that.

[B]

So 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. And then finally, there's what's known as sound meditation or mantra meditation. And that's the repetition of an affirmation or an ancient word. And the genuine goal of that is to connect with the source, to connect with higher energy, to connect with the universe. And I also practice that because I find it aligns me and puts me in sync with all of the beautiful things about the universe that I love. And so those are the three types of meditation and what they. What they're for. So it's almost like a menu. And choose what works for you.

[A]

Oh, that's amazing. And what do you have? Like, meditation is experience that, like, has been one of your most memorable. Like, you're like, oh, I'll never forget that meditation, because that was, like, one of the most memorable.

[B]

That's a good question. No one's ever asked me that before. Yeah, no one's ever asked me that before. If. If you. If you rethink like a monk, you hear about all the bad meditation days.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

So I talk about all the days when I'm like, I just wanted to scratch my foot, and I just wanted to get.

[A]

Scratch your foot when you're meditating, when.

[B]

We Were first being trained. It was very discipline because you had to learn how to bring your attention. You can. Everyone should scratch their foot.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But we were getting the hardcore training. There were certain things like you sit on the floor for two hours straight cross legged. Like, you don't get up again. I don't do that anymore.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You should sit in a comfortable chair. Everything else. My favorite meditation experience. I started meditating around 20 years ago and I had my best meditation experience this January. Really? Yeah.

[A]

Where were you?

[B]

I was back at the monastery that I lived at in India in the village part of it. It's two hours outside of Mumbai. And I was with my teacher and my wife and I go every year now together. And the best thing about it was we would meditate in the same place every single day. And what made it so beautiful is that people have been meditating there for decades.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So the energy of that space, it's almost like when you go on stage somewhere and you know your favorite artist has performed there or something. It just has like a spirit or an energy that you wouldn't get anywhere else. And I just felt so connected to God in the universe in that moment in a way that I never have before. I felt I was exactly where I was meant to be. I felt that everything I'd experienced was exactly the way it was meant to be. I was able to accept that with grace. And I felt really empowered and energized for what I wanted to accomplish this year. So it's really beautiful.

[A]

And that's. And how long did that. How long did you meditate for to get that feeling?

[B]

We meditate. I meditate for about 92. Yeah, I meditate for about 90 minutes every day. And so that was about probably two hours of a bit more than that that time.

[A]

And what type of meditation was that? Was it breath work? Was it 5, 4, 3, 2, 1? Or was it.

[B]

So I. I start with breath work every morning, and I'll do that for like two to three minutes. I then do visualization for around two to three minutes. And then I'll do mantra meditation for the rest of the time. That's my. That's my longest form of meditation. But I practice breathwork and 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Throughout the whole day.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Like, I would do it if I'm like rushing to a meeting and I'm feeling really behind and I'm feeling really tired and I'm feeling like I'm taking all this baggage with me into the next meeting. It's like, all right, five, four, Three, two, one. Like, let's really be in this present moment. Let's really be in these colors, shapes, shades. Let me look at the person that I'm with in the eyes. Like, let me really be here. I don't want to be in my last meeting or in my next meeting.

[A]

That's. Honestly, I feel like that's exactly what I needed to hear. I have the hardest time being present. It's like, probably like, my number one pitfall is like, I can. I'm either thinking about something that was happened before, something that might happen, or something. Yeah. Not nothing that's happening currently.

[B]

Yeah. And 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 is the best way to be present. There is no better meditation technique to be present than 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Because as soon as you're present physically, you're not doing in your head. You're looking around, you're touching this. You feel the temperature. You feel like this chair is cooler than the wood, which feels hotter. And then your hand, which we touched earlier, like, you know, it's like you're actually, like, getting tactile. And that's why I love it as a meditation practice, because you're not doing in your head.

[A]

I feel like it's especially hard for me and people in my generation because we're so, like, I'm so addicted to my phone, Jay. Like, I.

[B]

Like, let's talk about it.

[A]

Like, I. I don't know. Sometimes I think it really. Like, as someone who already has trouble being present, like, it makes it so much worse. Like, I feel like I. Especially with, like, God love Tick Tock because it gave me my career, but especially with Tick Tock and everything, like, when I close my eyes, I see my lock screen. Like, you know what I mean? Like, I am so. I couldn't be more addicted if I tried. Like, all I can, like, think about is, like, the glow. And like, it's hard for me to. Like, sometimes I'll be in, like, the most beautiful place in the world that, like, I used to dream of going to as a kid. And all I want to do is be on my phone and, like, I don't know how to fix that. I don't know how to help myself. I don't know because, like, I think it's, like, a legitimate addiction.

[B]

Yeah, this. Well, this technique will help definitely try it out. We were in. I went to Bhutan last year, which is a tiny little country landlocked between India and China. And we practiced this there. And I literally can close my eyes and remember that moment and that's how powerful it is. But to your point about phone addiction, sometimes I feel like my brain is scrolling.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And my brain even scrolls while people talk, where I'm like, all right, get to the point. Like, be entertaining. Like, my wife will call me out on it. And I have to be honest with you, Like, I. I will literally. My wife has called me out on this a few times. I'll be like, all right, get to the good part. All right, tell me what's going on. All right, let's. Let's get to the point.

[A]

I think I do that.

[B]

And we all do that when we're scrolling. Because you're trying to find that next thing. Right. You're like, entertain me. Entertainment. Okay, let's. Oh, good. Okay. This got my attention. All right. Boring, boring, boring. Okay. Entertaining. Entertaining, boring, boring. Right. Like, that's what we're doing. And I do that with people. Like, I've done that with my wife. Like, boring, boring, boring. Or get to the entertaining part. And so I think this is real, and I think we all genuinely struggle with it. And here's what I've learned. The one thing that can change it is don't look at your phone first thing in the morning. And don't look at your phone lasting at night. Now, 80% of us look at our phones before we look at our partners.

[A]

I sleep next to my phone like it is my partner.

[B]

Yes. And 80% of people look at their phones lasting at night after their partners. So this is a real issue. But why am I saying it? It's because the mind is so powerful in the hours of sleep and that wake state. Have you ever had it when you wake up and you can kind of remember your dream, but then if you snap awake, you forget it completely?

[A]

Yeah. Unless it's, like, so bad that I'm like.

[B]

Exactly. But there's, like, that tiny bit of, like, almost waking up where you can still remember your dream. It's still there. And then if you wake up or your alarm goes off or you look at your phone, you. Someone was like, what did you dream about? You'd be like, I have no idea. Unless it was really, really terrible.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And so that time of just before going to sleep and just waking up, you're actually programming your mind. You're programming your brain. Sleep is meant to be a dishwasher. That's what sleep actually is.

[A]

I'm obsessed with that analogy.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Sleep is meant to be, as the studies show, a dishwasher.

[C]

Right.

[B]

You put all the dishes in at night, you Wake up in the morning and they're all clean. It's filtered your thoughts. It's. It's edited the negative ones. It's made space for the bigger things in life that we need to think about. All of them are squeaky clean. They're polished. It's figured it out. But you don't get the dishwasher to work when you forgot to switch it on because you're too busy scrolling your phone. And now you never turn the dishwasher on. You wake up in the morning, you open up and go, oh, my gosh, I forgot to turn the dishwasher, and.

[A]

Now I'm going about my day with dirty dishes.

[B]

Exactly. Dirty thoughts.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Not in that way, but you get the point. Yeah, so? So the reason why I say that is you would never let 100 people into your bedroom first thing in the morning before you've washed your face, brushed your teeth, maybe had a shower. You would never let 100 people walk into your bedroom, but we all let 100 people walk into the bedroom of our mind every morning. When you open up your phone and. And you see a message, it's like someone coming up to you and saying, jake, you still haven't sent me that document. It's like someone else coming and saying, hey, Jake, do you want to go out tonight? Hey, Jake, you up? Right. Whatever it is. Right. It's like all of these people are literally standing around your bed, yelling at you, asking for stuff, demanding things, telling you bad news. Now, you've got to find a way of unprogramming that throughout the day.

[C]

Right.

[B]

That's impossible.

[A]

My thing is, though, I. If I don't get messages in the morning, that also makes me upset.

[B]

I get that. Who from?

[A]

Like, anyone. Like, I just, like, want to feel like mist as I rest.

[B]

Tell me who. I love that. And I get that. I. It's real. Tell me who. You genuinely. We all love getting messages from everyone. But if you could pick three people that you love, their morning messages, who would it be?

[A]

Their morning messages?

[B]

Yeah. Like someone that you like to be missed by in the morning when you wake up. But you can only pick three people.

[A]

If there's, like, a guy I'm talking to.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Like, I'd appreciate.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

A text from them.

[B]

Do they usually text?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay, fine. So let's get that person off the list.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

See, you don't need morning messages. That's what we're learning, Jake.

[A]

Like, I. I love. I love text from. Like, I love text from my friends.

[B]

Right. So. So let's say a couple of your friends if people like. So, for example, my wife will sometimes wake up and be really nervous that she'll get bad news from London.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Because our family's in London.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Right. Parents, siblings, nieces, nephews, everyone. So it's real. And what I've recommended to her and recommend to everyone else is have a phone that only three people can access because those are the people that you really need to hear from in the morning. I know my wife needs to wake up, know that her grandma's good and her mom's good.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And that her sister's good. I know she needs to know that. And then she can go about her day. And I get that and I really understand that. But you don't need everyone to have access to you in the morning. And that's what we're trying to get to is if you had a phone that had no apps, nothing else on it, it had your alarm, if you really want that. And it had the three people. Yeah, that's it. And then keep the other phone in another room because there's no need for it. And if you want to make it really good, get a flip phone, get one of those really basic old school Motorola, Nokia, whatever. No, no, no, you won't be seen with it, Jake. No one will ever see you with it. But. But make it so hard to be distracted. But get the information you need. If you need those three messages in the morning that say, jake, you're hot, I love you, you're amazing, and like so funny. Yeah. And so funny. Sorry. Right, yeah. Have that. That's. I'm not mad at that.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But keep it limited because the problem is your habit in the morning and the night is what's filled up for the rest of the day. So if you get that dopamine hit in the morning of board board board board board entertainment, Board board board board board entertainment, you're now looking for that throughout the whole day.

[A]

100%.

[B]

And when you don't get in the morning, your brain gets time to wake up and go, I really love those three messages from my friends.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I really appreciate that. I'm really grateful for that. I love that. And now I can go about my day. Now I'm not trying to get people to entertain me or solve my problems or tell me some terrible news that happened in the world. I can learn about that 10 minutes after I wake up.

[C]

Right.

[B]

30 minutes after I wake up. Let me let myself warm up. Would you wake up and go on stage in 30 seconds?

[A]

No, never, never, never.

[B]

But that's what we're doing on our phone, right?

[A]

Especially because, like, my. Like, the phone kind of is a stage or it's become Correct.

[B]

Correct. And you never wake up and say, your manager, I'm gonna wake up. We're gonna have a bed backstage. I'm gonna wake up backstage, and I'm gonna walk right on stage and do a show for thousands of people.

[A]

I would never.

[B]

You never do that, right? We do that every day. And it's really hard on our minds, just as it would be hard to wake up backstage and walk out. That's how hard it is.

[A]

So would you recommend, like, if tonight when I slept, I, like, plugged my phone in at my desk away from my bed, so then when I wake up, like, I can shut off the alarm and then I, like, brush my teeth and, like, maybe, like, drink a coffee?

[B]

Yeah, I like this. This is going well.

[A]

And like, okay, but what's your stance on tv? Like, what if I like. Like, what is your stance on, like, falling asleep to television?

[B]

I am not mad at that. If it helps you sleep, I would encourage you to think. If you have anxiety and you're watching shows about people dying and bad stuff happening, that's definitely having an impact. So I would definitely encourage people to think about, you know, what they're watching before they go to bed. But I have a friend who likes to go to sleep to white no noise and needs to have, like, friends on in the background or whatever it is. And it's like, sure, great. I have no issues with that. But don't go to sleep watching someone get murdered and then expect to have, like, beautiful dreams and wake up excited. It's not gonna work.

[A]

Okay, so would you think, though, that maybe, like, reading would be healthier for me?

[B]

I mean, reading would be healthier for everyone.

[A]

Do you read?

[B]

But, yes, I love reading readings. Yeah, I love reading that. I'm. I fell in. See, the thing with all of this stuff is finding something that you love. So I grew up thinking I hated reading because I hated fiction books.

[A]

Oh, you hated fiction?

[B]

Yeah. And then I never knew there was such a thing as non fiction.

[C]

Right?

[B]

But when I was, like, 14, I started reading biographies and autobiographies and I fell in love with them. I read David Beckham, Dwayne the Rock Johnson when he was a wrestler, and then also read Malcolm X and Martin Luther King. And it was just. I was in. I was like this. I'm hooked. Because this is real life, real people, real problems. It's like, A podcast, but in a book, because you're learning about this person and their whole life. So, yeah, I love reading. I don't think it's about reading. I'm not saying that. I think it's just about the fact that you don't want your first and last programing of your brain to be your phone, because the pace of your phone is not aligned with the pace of your brain.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And the problem that we all have is the pace of our brain follows the pace of our phone. So if you're scrolling at 100 miles per hour, your brain is now learning to move at 100 miles per hour, and then you don't have the meditation tools to slow it back down. So even for me, as someone who meditates daily, if I let that happen in the morning and the evening, my brain is also moving that fast. And now I'm having to work double hard in my meditation just to get it to slow down.

[A]

I see.

[B]

Okay, so it's more about that. You can watch whatever you want.

[A]

No, I'm really excited, though, to, like, plug my phone in across from my room and see how that affects my sleep and vibe.

[B]

Yeah. And I have no affiliation with this company. I say it because it's. It's funny because I love them so much, and I plug it all the time. There's this thing called a hatch.

[A]

I have a hat.

[B]

Oh, there we go.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So let the hatch wake you up and leave the phone in another room. Oh, yeah. No, no, no phone.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

This. So if. If we. If I was. I. I have the fortune of coaching lots of people. And if I was coaching you, I would literally do this dress rehearsal with you. So we'd both be in your bedroom. We'd. We'd make sure that your hatch was right there. We'd. We'd mirror what it's going to look like when it wakes you up. We're going to figure out exactly the steps you're going to take to avoid looking at your phone and then finally look at your phone 10 minutes later.

[A]

My fear and I have this anxiety that my hatch isn't going to go off.

[B]

And I will.

[A]

I know, but, like, I trust my phone to, like, go off. And I think that's, like, what. I think that's the problem.

[B]

We trust our phones more than our friends. It's got to.

[C]

We do.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Thank you, seatgeek, again, for sponsoring tonight's episode. There are so many concerts and live shows this summer. I feel like summer is the time to go see a live show. There is nothing like rejoicing over your favorite artist and having them perform live with everybody else who also wants to hear them. It's seriously the best feeling in the entire world. And there are also so many tours that are coming up. And just announced Lord just announced her arena tour which is going to be unbelievable. I'm so excited for that. Tate is also on tour. She's on her Miss Possessive World tour, which I am so excited to see. And also Jay Shetty, who is in tonight's episode, is on the On Purpose live tour, which is amazing. If you love what he has to say, go see him on tour. I personally just. I love him. I. His live shows seem amazing and life changing. I am also on tour. You can see me live with Jake Shane. You can use my code therapist10 for 10% off your SeatGeek order. That is therapist10. And also download the SeatGeek app which is so easy to use it literally you put in your area and then it'll show you trending events in your area. So right now for me it has Kendrick Lamar and sza, New York Yankees, literally anything. And then it's just you can browse by category, popular this weekend, sports, concerts, whatever you need, the SeatGeek app is there for you to use. If you click the link in the description which will download the Sea Geek app for you, your code therapist10 will automatically be applied. That is therapist10 for 10% off your SeatGeek order. SeatGeek, I love you. Go see a live show. It is life changing. It really gets you in touch with your community and people around you and it's just amazing. I mean live music and live shows was like the number one thing I missed during COVID So now that we have it back, I would say I think take advantage of it and go if you can. Thank you SeatGeek for sponsoring tonight's episode. What did you learn about like self love and self acceptance like through living in a monastery?

[B]

Self love to me is not possible until you visit all the places of yourself you don't like. So this idea of self love is a great idea, but you can only truly love yourself if you visited everything inside of yourself that you might hate or dislike. That's what it takes to have self love.

[A]

How do you visit those places?

[B]

You visit those places by realizing that they were an experience. They weren't you. They were a moment. They weren't you. They were a conversation. They weren't you. These were all things that happen to you or actions that you took, but they don't define you as a human. So you visit them with grace, you visit them with compassion, you visit them with love, and you heal from that experience. You go there, it's almost like going to the playground you were bullied in.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Right. And I've never done this, so I'm thinking about it now. But going to the playground you were bullied in. And if that was something big and I was bullied growing up, I was bullied for being overweight. I was bullied for the color of my skin. I was bullied for my name. And going back to that place and taking it in and going, well, this was a place I was bullied. But, hey, what did I learn from it? What did I take away from it? For me, that made me more compassionate, that made me more loving, and it made me want to take care of myself. It made me want to be nice to other people and kind to other people. Wait a minute. This was a great experience. So now I've gone to a part of myself that I'm scared to visit, but I've actually left there feeling lighter. And so I think if we. Whether it's through therapy, whether it's through podcasts like these, whether it's through physically visiting, the idea of going back to places inside of yourself that you've been trained to dislike or hate, like, maybe you were someone who was always told you were overweight or too short or too tall or whatever it was for you, sit with that for a second and go, well, wait, who was the person saying that?

[C]

Right.

[B]

Why do I believe them? Why are they even significant to me? And what do I want to believe about myself? What is true about myself when I visit the darkest, hardest parts of myself, I can leave there with self love. So to me, it's less about sitting there and saying I love myself. It's actually going to all the places that you might hate and finding love within them.

[A]

I feel like I struggle a lot with, like, like, intimacy, though, and, like, being intimate with someone. And I feel like maybe that's why I struggle so much with dating, because, like, I like, well, what's the point? Like, I don't know how I'm gonna be intimate with this person. It's like the first thought in my head, and then I can't get past that. And then I, like, can't get into the date, and I'm, like, so embarrassed of, like, my own. Like, I hate going on, like, dinner dates with. I hate eating in front of people. I hate, like, like, existing in front of someone. Like, I don't know how to be, like, sexual and romantic with someone.

[B]

And where does that come from?

[A]

I literally don't know. I legitimately don't know. I just. I think it's because I, like, have experience all of, like, my love and my love life, like, online. I never got to really, like, experience it in middle school and high school, so it's kind of like I'm learning now as opposed to, like, learning in eighth grade because I was able to kind of be like, well, there's no gay guys in my school, so just shut it off, and I don't have to address anything that I'm feeling. And then I got to college, and then I was like, okay, well, I guess I'm, like, learning how to. Unlike a dating app or, like, online or, like. Like, I don't know, you know? And, like, now I just. Like, I went on a date last night, and I was, like, so uncomfortable in, like, how I was behaving. Like, I felt so, like, unattractive. Like, I feel so, like, discombobulated with the world when I'm, like, trying to exist, like, romantically with someone.

[B]

Thank you for sharing that, by the way.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Of course. It's very. No, it's. That's. I can tell how real it is.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I appreciate how vulnerable you are. And it's. When I'm listening to you, I'm thinking. So it doesn't sound like there was a previous event that went in a way that you didn't want it to go, or there wasn't a interaction that kind of made you fearful of that, that. That doesn't exist in your memory, really something you can call upon.

[A]

I think maybe, like. Maybe it's like the idea of being rejected on a dating app, because that was, like, the first place I ever, like, looked for love. And like. Like when you're on, like, for example, like a grinder of sorts, like, if someone doesn't like you, like, they can just. They'll block you or, like, they'll. Or swipe right or swipe left or, like, whatever. So it's, like, such a quick no. So I. I don't. I don't know. Maybe that's where that's from. It's like, oh, if. If they don't like me. Like, it's so quick, you know? It's like, I don't know how. I don't know. I'm making sense.

[B]

No, no, no, this is good. I'm trying to. This is good. This is what it. What we need to do to. To figure it out. And so where does the intimacy part connect with that? Because there's one thing in feeling I'm not attractive. And is that the connection to the intimacy? Like, if someone can reject me for not being attractive in five seconds, how could I be intimate with them? Because.

[A]

Yeah, I think that's it. And also, like, because I don't have, like, any practice in intimacy because I, like, I rarely do it. Like, I don't. I'm so uncomfortable with it.

[B]

Yeah. And I think you've just. I really appreciate where we got to with that because you've. You've just answered the question. Anything you do for the first time, you're going to be bad at it.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Like everyone.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Like, that's just the truth of it. Anyone who says they were good at something the first time is probably lying, especially being intimate. And so to me, when you're saying that, there's a. It's harder because you're saying, I'm older now and people are expecting that. People have had practice.

[A]

Yeah, that's what it is, too. It's like, I feel like such a loser because I'm, like, 25, and like, I have been so inexperienced in these things.

[B]

Yeah. And. And the truth is that I think most people if. If we're honest, and I. And I. And I think we have to be. We have to get that out there. If we're honest. Most people feel that way. You're just honest enough to say it. There's a lot of people who feel so scared of being emotionally intimate, physically intimate, they just don't say it. They don't. They're not as courageous as you to even let alone say it to themselves, to say it out loud like you just have. And I actually think that there's a truth in that, that the right person will actually know how to connect with. And yes, there are some people who are going to hear that or know that and think, oh, loser, whatever it is, they are. But those aren't the people for you. Those aren't the right people. Someone who recognizes that. And by the way, I'm thinking about a friend as I'm talking to you. One of my friends who. I think he came out when he was. I think he came out when he was probably around 28, 29, maybe even 30. Like, it was. He came out late. He grew up in a tradition that would never have allowed it. Grew up in a family that would have totally, you know, shunned it. And it took him a long time to come to terms with coming out. And it was hard for him. And he felt the same way that almost like he was having his first love at 30 years old, right? Because he'd never been able to fall in love.

[C]

Right?

[B]

And as a gay man, he'd never had that experience before. And for him, as I've watched him go through his journey and now he's happily married and found his partner and has a beautiful relationship, what I saw was him recognizing that there was going to be someone who actually held that part of him gently and comforted it and maybe even felt the same way. And it became something they explored together. It was something that they allowed themselves to experiment with together. And I think it's keeping faith that when you're as honest and sincere and authentic as you are, that you're going to allow that authenticity to be reciprocated through someone you almost don't want. Someone who treats that badly. Like I always say to people, like, you don't want someone who uses your wounds as a weapon, like, that's not the right person. You don't want someone who uses your need for being held gently as something they throw in your face or treat you harshly like you don't want that. So in. In effect, it almost becomes the best radar of knowing who's right for you. And so I would rather use it as a strength to say, this trait of mine that I'm really nervous about is actually going to help me find the right person, because the right person will know how to hold this part of me gently. And that way I can cut out all the BS and all the trash that keeps coming my way because they won't know how to hold this part of me right. It's not something you have to get over. It's something that someone can say, I see you, Jake.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm okay with it. You're not. Too much like, this is okay. It's normal. It's not. It's not some unheard of weird trait. So it's not something you have to get over it. It's finding someone who's okay with you not having to get over it. Does that make sense?

[A]

No. 100%. I just wish I could get out of my own head because even, like, if I am intimate, it's like I feel like I have such bad ADHD and like, stuff that it's hard for me to, like, be in that moment of intimacy. And then, like, I have anxiety after it and then I have anxiety before it, and I just, like, don't. I don't know. I think I'm like too scared, honestly.

[B]

And you, and that's what I'm saying, you just need someone who gets that. Yeah, that's what it is. The right person will get that. I mean, you know, I just, I just interviewed Benny and Selena, right.

[A]

I watched. It was lovely.

[B]

And it was just, you know, Benny knows how to hold Selena, right. And Selena knows how to hold Benny.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Like, that's what makes them a wonderful couple. That's why they're having a great relationship. Not because they're both perfect and figured everything out and got over all their pressures and stresses and healed all of their wounds. And that's not why they're a good couple. They're a good couple because he knows how to say, I got you. I know what you're about to do. I know you're going to go crazy after, you know, whatever it may be in your example, but I got you, you're okay, you're safe. And she knows how to do that for him. So the right person's able to go, I know you're going to go crazy after intimate. I know I'm going to get like three messages or maybe none at all. Like, I know what you're going to do, Jake, and it's okay. It's not too much. I'm here. And so it's not that you've got to change and figure it out and fix it all. It's. It's continuing to find the person who doesn't think you're too much or not enough.

[A]

How do you find that though? Do you just continue going on like.

[B]

Dates by using this radar? That's the most. If you're saying that this is like your core thing, right? Like every one of us has like a core challenge, especially when it comes to love and relationships. We have this core block and this is one of yours, right? It's not about you healing and perfecting and getting over it. I'm sure you've tried all those things.

[A]

It's. Yeah, it's just, I get so scared. I think it also, I just thought about this. It really just all boils down to like, I get very scared of being made fun of. So I think that's also why I like to make people laugh and also why I'm very self deprecating because I like to beat people to the punch. And I, when I talk, when I'm flirting with someone, like in public or like I'm showing like vulnerability or being intimate with someone, like, I'm so scared that Someone's gonna make fun of or like, someone's looking at me. And like, I. I know that. My mom always told me, like, no one's looking at you. No one's thinking about you as much as you're thinking about yourself. But I still, I can't get past it.

[B]

But that is the best test.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The best test is showing your heart and having someone act at their level of vibration.

[C]

Right, Right.

[B]

Like when you. When I messaged you a couple of months back and I DM'd you, I was just being honest. And thankfully you reciprocated. And then I was like, oh, cool. I think me and Jake could be friends. Like, there was like an alignment. Whereas I could have DM'd you and you couldn't have responded. I could have DM'd you and you couldn't have seen it. I could have DM'd you and you could have responded. And it could have been negative. Right? It could have been all those things, but it wasn't. But even if it was, it would have just shown me that we weren't an energy match. So I'd rather share my energy with the world, which is vulnerable, honest, kind, loving, and be okay with the fact that someone doesn't see it, because then I see where they're at. This actually happened to me in work recently. So I've never been love bombed in love because I didn't think love bombing existed when I was dating.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But I've been with my wife for 12 years and married for nine years. And a couple of months ago, I got love bombed in work. So I met. So I met someone in a, in a work environment. And they're not a team member or an employee. They're another person doing amazing work. And after meeting me, they sent me this really long message saying, jay, I love you. I love meeting you. We're so aligned. We're cut from the same cloth. We're like, meant to do stuff together. I'd love to, for you to be involved in this project. I think it would be perfect. It'd be amazing. Like, like totally, like, fully in love with me. And I responded with the same energy. I was like, I'm so grateful. Like, thank you so much. Like, this means the world to me. I felt the same way. I would love to know about this project. They've replied back going, yes, we're gonna figure it out. It's really long, like a really long tax exchange. And that's the kind of person I am, where I'm like, even when I Walked in today and I was telling you, I was like, you know, I usually turn up to interviews alone, right? This is the first interview that my entire team wanted to come to because they wanted to see you. And. And I didn't say that to flatter you. Say I said it because it was true. And. And they can vouch for that. I said it because it was true because. Because I. That's how I like to live now. You were really sweet back. If you were like, oh, cool, and walked off, I would just know. I'm like, okay, cool. This isn't someone that likes that type of energy. And that's okay.

[A]

I love that energy. Yeah.

[B]

So anyway, I. Three days later, I check in with this person. I go, hey, you told me this really cool project I can be a part of. Like, let me know. I'm ready. Like, let me know. And I'm being super enthusiastic now. They messaged back a couple of like, hours later and were like, yeah, we're not so sure right now. We're just figuring it out. But I really still want you involved and I'll let you know. I was like, cool, no worries. Let me know. When seven days later, I check in again. I'm like, hey, just want to make sure I don't miss the email because it's really important to me.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I want you to know it's a priority for us. I. I took what you said seriously. They messaged back three days later going, yeah, not sure. Still got to talk to these people. Whatever they don't tell me, it's a no. I find out from other sources so LA that they. They think I'm coming on too strong.

[A]

But they came on to you very strong.

[B]

Like, I. I literally screenshot the messages and send it to the other person. I was like, I'm not crazy. And I was like, I wear my heart on my sleeve always. It's who I am, right? And I love wearing my heart on my sleeve because if we were in business together, I'd be that enthusiastic. So if they don't want to deal with my enthusiasm right now, they wouldn't have been happy in business anyway. And so to me, it becomes the best way of figuring out really quickly. I mean, this person going to connect or we not. And I'm okay with the fact that it didn't work out because I'd rather only work with people who energetically match me. So to me, it's your greatest superpower. Your greatest strength is your vulnerability. Your greatest superpower is your ability to have this struggle that you have. And the goal is to allow yourself to be yourself in a moment, and people are going to reject it. People may think that it was corny what you said, but guess what? They just weren't your match. And not everyone is going to be. And that's okay.

[A]

Wow. I really resonated with that.

[B]

I hope so, because I want you to realize that what you think is your weakness in dating is your greatest superpower. That's all I want to convince you of. I don't want to convince you. It's something you have to heal or fix or work on. It is your greatest superpower because the right person will come and hold it.

[A]

Okay. I really think I needed to hear that. I'm glad, because I do. I feel like it's. I. Why would I want to be with someone who I have to, like, convince to enjoy my company?

[B]

Why would you want to be with someone where you have to hide that fear, which isn't a weakness, which isn't a loser, which isn't a bad quality. It's just something you're developing and working on. Why would you want to have to hide that from them?

[A]

I think that's what I'm used to, though, because, like, I always, like, always wanted to be, like, popular. Like, when I was a kid, it's all I cared about was being popular and liked, and I would, like, force myself into crews and areas that, like, necessarily, like, weren't not always for me. And I feel like I am approaching dating with, like, the same mindset. And I feel like maybe that's also, like, my pitfall. It's like, I need to just. And it's also like, I hate going on dates and, like, I'm not working.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, all of us want to be liked, so that's. Yeah. That's not just you. And, you know, I think about it as, like, when I. I gave a speech when I was 7 or 8 years old at school, and my whole class laughed at me, and my teacher put her arm around me and walked me off stage, which was even more embarrassing.

[A]

100, right? Yeah.

[B]

And now my friends were laughing even more.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And I say that because I really did care what they thought, and I was worried by it, and I was really upset and scarred by that. But now I go on stages, and thankfully, there's thousands of people that appreciate what I have to say. By the way, there are thousands of people who don't care about what I have to say, too. And I've just started to realize that that's just the game of odds in the world. Like, there is no one who is liked by everyone. No one. Even the person you think is adored by everyone. I remember I was working with a client once, and they said to me, they go, I want to be there. This person I was talking to is already in the top 1 top.00 0.1% of success. And they were telling me they want the other person's fame. Someone else is.00 0.1%. And I was like, why? And they were like, because everyone likes them. And I was like, are you kidding me? I was like. I showed them, like, Reddit threads and chats, and I was like, there is no way this person is fully loved. And. But in your head, you've made it feel that way, right? So all of us who believe that there is the one popular kid in school, that there is the person online that everyone adores and loves, they don't exist. And it doesn't exist for me or you either. And that's okay, right? Because especially in love, you're trying to find someone who's happy to hold all of your quirks and all of your little, you know, whatever it may be. Like, I think about my wife and how much she likes, tolerates of me or accepts of me or appreciates and allows me to be. And I'm like, real love is being allowed to be all of yourself. But real love is when someone lets you be all of yourself. Like, when someone says to me, like, jay, I really love that I can have a good time with you. I love that you love football. I love that you love wisdom, and I love that you're really strategic and a business person. When I'm seen for all of myself, that's when I'm most loved, right? But if someone just says to me, jay, I love you, because you have lots of wisdom to share, that's just like 10 of who I am. I'm so many more things. So I think it's giving yourself permission to be all of it, and then people will give you permission to be all of yourself.

[A]

Okay, can I ask you about a date I went on last night? I love it because you were talking about, like, how my vulnerability is my strength.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so I went on this date last night. Okay, can I just, like, start from the beginning, please? Because I, like, need your advice on this.

[B]

I'm really excited.

[A]

So I thought this guy was cute, Like, I think we matched on a dating app, like, a while ago. And then he. Oh, my God, he's literally going to know exactly who he is. So embarrassing.

[B]

Let's mix it up.

[A]

I honestly, like. But I have to tell you, like, then he became friends with Julia and Peyton, who are my two best friends, and I was like, oh, my God. He's honestly kind of cute. Like, da, da, da. And then at Coachella, we saw each other and we were flirting, like, the whole night. And. And I. I was like, my. I realized, like, as I became more myself and I wasn't, like, having this wall up. Like, he was more into it. And then we went on a date last night, but then he never texted me today or last night, and I really want to text him. So you hate me, but no one's letting me text him. But, like, that's me.

[B]

Yeah. Do you? Do you. Is that you or is that your anxiety?

[A]

This is my anxiety. I think he hates me. But he also. Julian Payton texted him, like, how was the date last night? I know this. Like, I don't know if this is your field, but, like, I just need your take on it.

[B]

I'm so sorry. I love it.

[A]

And, like, Julianne Bayton texted him last.

[B]

Wait, why did they text him?

[A]

Because they're friends with him. And I was texting, like, get the.

[B]

Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's good.

[A]

They texted him and he. They were like, are you gonna take Jake out again? He said, maybe. So what does that mean? So I'm like, well, I don't know what that means. And now I'm like, now I think he double hates me. And it's like, should I not text him?

[B]

I would text him and say what? I wouldn't say, so now you hate me.

[C]

Right?

[B]

This is someone you want to go on another date with so badly. Okay, but it sounds like he doesn't want to go on another date.

[A]

He doesn't.

[C]

Right?

[A]

Like, he does.

[B]

He doesn't. He doesn't want to go on another date.

[A]

But it's like, I need that clarity. But it's like, we went on one day. What am I going to be like? Do you hate me? Like, do you not want to go on another date with me? Am I supposed to eat it?

[B]

So you have two options. The first is, well, you have a few options, but one of them is you could say, hey, you know, yeah, are we gonna go on a second date? Or whatever it may be. Right. Which I don't think you should say. Okay. I don't think you should say, do you hate me? Because that may be too intense. What's the in between version for you?

[A]

Did you have fun Last night.

[B]

So what scares you about sending that message?

[A]

Because he's just gonna. Of course. He's just gonna respond and be like, yeah, so much fun.

[B]

Yeah. And then that's it again.

[A]

Like, I just. It's like, if they wanted to, they will, huh?

[B]

Yeah. I think it's the clarity. It's. It's. It's that. It's having that clarity. Like, if you want someone who messages you back after a date, you should.

[A]

Have that person, and that's not going to be him.

[B]

And that's not going to be him. So he's not the right person now if he's been busy. He's got crazy stuff going on, his life. We don't need to make up those excuses for us. I mean, sorry. We don't need to make up those excuses for him in our head. We just need to let it be right. It is what it is. Now our head goes, maybe this, maybe that. Maybe, you know, let him say that. If he comes back in a week and says, hey, Jake, you know what? My dog was really unwell and I had to take the dog to the vet. And then I had the crazy work that, I'd love to see you again. That's awesome.

[A]

Yes. I have a dog.

[B]

Right? Okay. A cat. No cat either. Okay.

[A]

Honestly, now I'm like, did I even ask him if he had a pet? I'm the worst. I'm the worst. The worst.

[B]

If. If they could text you and they didn't, move on.

[A]

But now I'm realizing I even asked him if he had a pet.

[B]

You could message him that. Hey, do you have a dog? Jay said you might have a dog. He like, who's Jay?

[A]

No, no, no. Totally, totally, totally, totally, totally, totally, totally, totally.

[B]

It's. It's. You know what it is? It's. We make. We make the simple things harder because we make it about. Maybe there's a perfect algorithm to how to text this person at a particular cadence two days from now, and then they might like me again.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So we're, like, mathematically trying to make someone fall in love with us.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

When the reality is this is just it. And so rather than playing the game and figuring it out and putting the blocks and the boxes exactly where they need to line up, you just let it be. So if you feel like texting him and saying, hey, I had a great time. Are we going to go on another date? And you want the clarity. There is nothing wrong with that, because that's who you are. That's how you show up and you choose to show up in that way, it's not desperate, it's not loser. It's. It's clarity. Right? If you were trying to get a job and you messaged someone and you really like the job, in the next two days, you message and saying, hey, did I get a job? Just want to check in, wanted to share a bunch of stuff, it wouldn't be seen as weird, right? It'd be seen as the right thing to do. And even whether you got the job or not, you know, in your mind and heart, you put yourself out there, you got it, and it wasn't the end of the world.

[C]

Right?

[B]

And if you're willing to just accept it where it's at, and you already feel like you have enough information from his friends that it's kind of a whatever, then move on. But he may be waiting for your message.

[A]

Oh, you think?

[B]

No.

[A]

Fuck. I really want him to text me. I don't know why I'm so obsessed.

[B]

Of course you're obsessed. We're all obsessed with people who don't message us back. Yeah, that's the person we're obsessed with. Right? We say we want presence, but we love the person who's absent. Right? We say we want affection, but we're chasing the person who doesn't give us attention.

[A]

Why?

[B]

Like, we say, we want someone who'll validate us, but we chase the person who always makes fun of us.

[C]

Right?

[B]

Because earning love is what we think we have to do.

[A]

I'm sick.

[B]

We think that love needs to be earned, that it needs to be achieved. We don't believe it's something we deserve as we are. We've been trained to believe that we have to earn, chase, pursue and achieve love. But you deserve love just as you are without having to achieve or receive or chase it.

[A]

How do I learn that?

[B]

You learn that by sitting in these moments where you're obsessing over someone who isn't messaging you and recognizing that I deserve someone who does message me back. There's nothing wrong with that. That, by the way, that's not too much to ask. If I go out for dinner with a friend, I'd love a message too.

[C]

Right?

[B]

That's not even romantic. Like, let's just be real. Let's level the playing field here, right? Because I don't. I mean, my. My wife doesn't messing back until I call her seven times, call her assistant, and message her 29. So, you know, I'm still dealing with that after all these years.

[A]

How did you meet your wife?

[B]

Oh, that. That's a long story. But the. The quick one is I met her before I make became a monk at the temple in London.

[C]

Oh, wow.

[B]

That's a quick version. But in my first episode of my podcast, we tell.

[C]

Right.

[A]

She was your first guest.

[B]

Right, my first guest. We tell the full story. But going back to your point, if I went out for dinner with my friend and I didn't get a message the next morning about how much they enjoyed dinner and my car, I want that too. I want friends who are like that. That's something I really enjoy about friendship, where there's mutual validation, there's. There's this reciprocation, there's words of affirmation. That's really important to me. My team knows that we do it with each other all the time. Like, I love to tell people when they're doing a good job. I also love to be told when I did a good job. I enjoy that. I appreciate that. That's not too much to ask for. So you learn it by recognizing that's not too much to ask for. We went out on a date. If it was good and they enjoyed it, I want to hear from them. It's not too much to ask for.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So if I'm not getting it, it's okay. I'm gonna find someone who does. Give it to me.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cheers to that.

[B]

Yeah. Cheers to that.

[A]

Eyes.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

It's bad luck if you don't.

[B]

Oh, yeah. The mic. Cheers.

[A]

Always adding cheers.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Okay. Do you want to get into the tell me what's wrongs?

[B]

Let's do it.

[A]

Do you know about the tell me what's wrong?

[B]

No, you're gonna have to explain it.

[A]

Okay, so the tell me what's wrong. Right. In. And they tell us what's wrong?

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

And we give them advice. And I think.

[B]

Yes. Yes.

[A]

Do you want to take a bathroom break before we get into this?

[B]

No, I'm so good.

[A]

I do.

[B]

Okay, So I love that.

[A]

Okay, wait. I want to tell you what a crash out is now.

[B]

So I. I assumed it was that. I assumed there were drugs and alcohol involved.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

But. Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so I'm realizing after my PP break that you don't know what a crash out is.

[B]

I assumed it was what it is, but I thought there might be drugs, alcohol.

[A]

No, a crash out is like. It's like if it's just like one bad thing. It's like a. It's like a pile up. It's like a car pile up. It's like One bad thing happens, and then you start thinking about, like, another bad thing and another bad thing and another bad thing, and then you just crash.

[B]

Different bad things or a bad thing about that bad thing?

[A]

No, I usually hyper fixate on one thing.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

So, for example, like, when that guy didn't text me back, I. I was thinking about our date, and then I was thinking about our Saturday night, and then I was thinking about the first time we matched, and then I was thinking about what I said on the date, and, like, that's a crash out.

[B]

Got it. Yeah. Also overthinking.

[A]

I've been meaning to ask you because this was just before we get into the. Tell me what's wrong. What do you think? Because everyone says I'm a really bad listener. Where do you think? Do you. Do you. Number one. Do you think that.

[B]

Oh, you actually asked me.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Shut up, Louise.

[B]

How long have I been with my wife?

[A]

12 years.

[B]

There you go. Not a bad listener.

[A]

And you've been married for nine.

[B]

Not a bad listener. No. Bad listener. Showing off. No. Like, I think you'd be a bad listener. I don't think you're a bad listener. If you're a bad listener, your jump around wouldn't make sense. Whereas the jump around makes a lot of sense. So jumping around is not an issue in a conversation. It actually makes a conversation more interesting.

[C]

Right.

[B]

When you can get lost on a tangent and find your way back, that's a good conversation.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Boring conversations are. Let's follow this rhythm. Right. So, no, I don't think you're a bad listener in this forum.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

I can't. I can't vouch for. In every area of life, but, like, when I've never dated you, I'm not part of your team. Like, there's lots of different ways when.

[A]

I'm on a date, I think I'm a bad listener. Like, I find myself sometimes when I'm on dates, like, not caring.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Is that like, actual me not caring, or is that like.

[B]

It goes back to what we were talking about earlier? So here's. Here's the thing. People will always be boring if we're not interested. And humans are finding it harder and harder to be interested.

[C]

Right.

[B]

In humans. Because our phones are more entertaining than humans.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So your phone can entertain. Your TikTok feed can entertain you so much more than anyone. Right. You could be sitting with the funniest person on planet Earth. And TikTok's funnier.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So that's scary to think about it. That Way, if you think about it, you could be sitting with the smartest person on earth and chat. GPT is smarter than it. Smarter than that person.

[A]

It's like when I go to the bathroom on a date, I'm never peeing, I'm checking my phone.

[B]

Yeah. Because it's so entertaining.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so I think the problem is that we've lost our ability to be interested in humans and therefore they can't be interesting and end up being boring. Because we don't know how to do that anymore. And because our minds are programmed to make everything the most entertaining, the smartest thing you've ever heard, the most silly, hilarious, funny. Like, everything is so extreme that the person in front of you doesn't stand a chance.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And so we've actually. Yeah, right. So we don't want to put that pressure on people because by the way, if they put that back on us, it wouldn't work either. One of my friends who's really into AI was telling me this. So he was saying if you take someone who's below average intelligence, or in his words, someone who you'd consider a moron, that person Einstein, was only 2 1/2 times smarter than a moron. 2 1/2 times. ChatGPT, or AI is already 10 times smarter than Einstein.

[A]

Really?

[B]

If not more. And accelerating. So when you think about that, you're like, well, wait a minute, then if I was having dinner with Einstein, would I find him boring?

[A]

I'm sick.

[B]

Right? Like, that's right. Like so. So, you know, when AI starts making AI girlfriends and boyfriends, is anyone going to be attractive enough?

[A]

No.

[B]

Like, imagine if you had an AI boyfriend or girlfriend. Like, and we're not far away from this. Just think about it for a second. You have an AI boyfriend or girlfriend that has a visual robotic version that is robotic underneath, but real skin on the outside. Right. Or whatever prosthetic skin on the outside that looks real. Are we ever going to want anything else when that person said yes to everything you want? The. The truth is we, we will get bored of that too, because it won't be. It won't be right. They'll know your favorite food. You won't. They will. There'll be no discovery. They'll say the perfect thing every time. Like, we'll get exhausted of that. But the problem is right now, we haven't got exhausted of that. We think that's perfection. So we're all going to fall in love with AI.

[A]

Okay. We are going to fall.

[B]

We are. Oh, people are going to Fall in love with AI when it gets to that point.

[A]

Yeah. Ideally I get a real boyfriend before that.

[B]

Ideally.

[A]

Because I would be the type to fall for that.

[B]

Yeah, a lot of people y for it. Yeah, a lot of people fall for it. So what I'm saying is when you compare what's happening technologically to any human on the planet, if you let the algorithm design your brain, you will always be hooked to it. And a human will never be an algorithm, because a human doesn't have to give you a dopamine hit every three scrolls. A conversation can be like winding, meandering, especially on a date. Right. We're on a podcast. We both podcast a lot. It's fun. We're going to back and forth, but, like, when you're kind of dating someone at the beginning, it's never going to be. It's hard to get a. A good, like, ping pong game going. Like, it's gonna take a second to get there. We've got to allow for that. So we've got to treat humans differently to technology.

[A]

Okay. So I think what I'm learning.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Is that maybe I need less time on my phone.

[B]

I mean, we've been talking about that. Yeah, we already talked about that. Maybe you're not listening.

[A]

No, I was, but I think that's like, really what I'm taking full blown. That's what I'm really taking from this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, what I'm saying is that. Look, that's true for all of us. What I'm saying is that the pace of our phones is transforming our entire brain. It's changing the pace at which we speak, read, hear, listen, interpret. Yes. No, Entertain, bored. Like, everything. So now you apply the algorithm to people as they're sitting in front of you, and they'll never compete. So. And actually, what's most beautiful about humans is humans are profoundly more fascinating than technology. If you get to hear their story, if you get to dive into their past, if you actually get to know them, it's so much more entertaining. But we don't know how to get beyond the lack of instant dopamine.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To get to oxytocin, which is the connection hormone.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

And so that takes longer to build. But we're so addicted to dopamine, and humans can't give us that. Humans can give us oxytocin. That you get from, like, a long hug or a beautiful moment where someone says something that really resonates with your heart. That would make up for all that boredom. Right. Does that make sense?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Like sometimes you can actually scroll for an hour and you're entertained, but then when you get off, you're exhausted.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

Whereas you could spend an hour with a human and you may not be entertained, but you'll have a moment with them that you will cherish forever.

[C]

Right.

[B]

That's what you're looking for. But it's a retraining and rewiring of.

[A]

Our brain and it's like it requires work.

[B]

It requires so much work and it's so hard. And we're all affected by me included.

[C]

Right.

[B]

I struggle with this too. Going back to a conversation we had.

[A]

I remember, are you ready for the tell me?

[B]

Oh, yeah, let's do it. I'm really excited about this.

[A]

My best friend is beginning to drift away from me and hang out with other people at college. It feels like shit and I'm wondering if I'm the problem or something, what should I do?

[B]

You're not the problem. People outgrow friends in transitions. People move on. People want to meet new people. That doesn't mean you have a problem. It doesn't mean you're weak. It just means it's your chance to go and meet new people too. And so rather than making it a reflection of your self worth or self esteem, go and make it as an opportunity to go and find new people to connect with and stay connected to this person.

[C]

Right.

[B]

They haven't done anything wrong. They haven't told you they don't care about you. They haven't told you you're not a priority. So make time when it's available, still create plans with them, but see as an opportunity to get to know new people. I mean, you're. It seems like they just started college or they're new to that experience, that's a perfect time to do that. And by the way, this is going to happen multiple times in life. You're gonna graduate from college and your friends are gonna make friends with new people. You're gonna start a new job and your colleagues are gonna make friends with new people. This is a really good thing to get used to and start realizing it's not personal.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And I also feel like that's such a normal thing to happen in college.

[B]

Yeah, for sure.

[A]

College is such like. Was it like super formative for you as well? It's like such formative years and like you figuring yourself out and like, I don't know, like, I feel like that's such a. If you like look at it as like a blessing, like you can like rewire how you Experience it.

[B]

Yeah. I think most people look back and go, I wish I experimented more. I wish I met different people. I wish I went to different classes. Right. You. You look at it totally different when you've left and when you're there, you're kind of like, these are my friends. This is who I hang out with. These. You know, and so I think most of us, if we look back on it, would want to break that pattern. And so the fact that this smart person is asking this question now, break that pattern now.

[C]

Right.

[A]

You don't think they should message them and be like, hey, why are you drifting?

[B]

I think that's what. I mean, you could if. If that's. If that's who you are and that's what you really want to do. I think it's a great conversation to have. I love a hard conversation, and I used to hate tough conversations.

[A]

Yeah, I hate them.

[B]

But I've started to realize it's a superpower to get really good at them. And, yeah, if you're confident enough to say, hey, are we drifting? What's going on? And I wouldn't even start putting words, because I think what happens is when you say, are we drifting? You're basically already pushing that person away. And I think it would be great to just say to them, like, hey, how's it going? Like, you know, what are you up to this weekend? How are you spending your time? Like, what are you excited about right now? Like, what. What. What kind of, you know, what have you been up to? What's something new you've discovered? Get to know what they're into. Get to know where they're going. And you may. You may be like, I don't want to know about any of that stuff.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So college was where I got really into meditation, mindfulness, wisdom. I had so many friends that either were friends were like, j. We love talking about football with it. When I say football, I mean soccer, Jay. We love talking about soccer. Love hanging out with you, but we do not want to go to a meditation class with you.

[C]

Right, Right.

[B]

And I was like, that's my relationship with them.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And then I started drawing boundaries. I was like, hey, guys, I've clubbed a lot in England. You start drinking early and clubbing early. Like, I was drinking from when I was, like, 13 years old.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And so for me, I started to be like, I don't really want to go to clubs. I don't want to drink alcohol anymore. Like, I was making those boundaries. And then I had friends. I was like, well, Jay, we want to make sure we have dinner before we all go out, so we'll make. So I started to find that there are different ways of hanging out with people. It's not like I'm like, you're my friend, and we've got to go out to the club together, we got to get drunk together, and we're gonna go watch football together. It's like, doesn't make sense. So I think college is a great time to start figuring out. These are my pre party friends. These are my post pipe. Like, you know, I mean, like, sorry. It's not like everyone has to do.

[A]

Everything with you 100%.

[B]

And I think that's where the struggle is here, where it's like, oh, my God, I need this friend to do everything with me. Well, no, they may be the friend I only go out to party with because that's what we still have in common. The friend I go to Coachella with every year. That's what we have in common, right?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And that's okay.

[A]

You mentioned mindfulness. What is. I feel like I've heard a million and one definitions of mindfulness. Like, what is mindfulness to you?

[B]

Mindfulness is the ability to focus and give attention to whatever you'd like to focus and give attention to. That is when you're being mindful. So if I say I want to be present with Jake and be really conscious in this conversation, and I'm able to do that, that's mindfulness.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Because I've chosen my target and I'm able to hit it. It's almost like saying, I want to hit the bullseye, and I can shoot an arrow that goes straight there or throw a dart that hits there. That's mindfulness.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Does that make sense?

[A]

Yeah. And how do you. How do you actively practice that?

[B]

I do it through 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

We're going back to the start of the conversation.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

I'm messing around, Jake. I'm messing around with you. I'm messing around with you. It's that. That technique definitely helps. I think it's also about being really intentional and being mindful. So what does that mean? It means before I walk in to a room, a meeting, a date, what energy am I walking in with? Am I really clear about it? Do I know why I'm there? Do I know what I'm looking forward to? Most of us just end up somewhere. You end up on a date. You end up at dinner. You end up at a party.

[C]

Right.

[B]

When you end up, you Walk in with all your anxieties. But actually, when you could actually program and code your mind to say, I'm going there with this energy for this reason. Now I'm being mindful. I feel like this when, you know, there's so many events in la, whether it's Grammys, Oscars, whatever it is. And I feel like everyone I talk to get so anxious at these events. Like, whatever awards show it is, everyone's so anxious. Everyone's like, oh, my God, I'm really socially anxious. Oh, my God, that person's there. Like, oh, my God, I just saw this celebrity, like, and everyone's feeling that way. No matter how, you know, famous and successful you are, if you're up and coming. And what's really interesting, it's because we don't get a chance to clarify why we're there. Like, we don't know what reason we're there. We haven't been conscious of it. So as soon as you're conscious of that, you can be really mindful. Like, I always say to myself, I'm like, all I'm looking for is one person to have a really meaningful conversation with. That's why I'm there. Like, that's my thing. And so I could be anywhere in the world. And as long as I have one meaningful conversation, it was a successful. It was a success for me.

[A]

I feel like my thing would be like, as long as I made like one person there laugh.

[B]

Great, that's good. I like that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And then that's what you feel.

[A]

Purposeful.

[B]

Yeah. And it's simple, right? It's really easy. It's just one person. It's not like, oh, my God, I gotta make every person I meet laugh out loud. Like, that may not be possible.

[A]

Okay, amazing. I've been post breakup for two months now, and I'm pretty positive he was the love of my life, but I completely lost myself and I need to figure out how to better myself from it and move TF on the.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Help me.

[B]

Please. Don't make someone fall in love with you if you don't have the ability to love them back. Like, don't make someone fall hard for you if you're not willing to catch them. Like, don't make someone feel like you're going to be the person who's going to solve all their problems if you're not even going to be around to be patient while they try and solve them. And so I think a lot of people end up in this position for two reasons. The first is we love to make people fall in love with us because it makes us feel good about ourselves.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And a lot of people do that today and then disappear after two months. And the other reason we do it is because we fall in love too fast. So my first piece of advice before we even get to the breakup piece is don't fall in love too fast. Stop trying to plan a future with someone when you don't even know what they did last night. Right. Like, stop trying to plan like years ahead with someone when you don't even know what they've been doing for the last three months. And we get so ahead of ourselves that we never even stop to look behind and see if they're coming along with us. And so we need to disconnect from this idea of I want to find love in one or two months. Right. So that's, that's important. Now. I don't know how long this person's been together. I don't know how long they've been with them. I know they've been broken up for two months. Let's say it was a long term relationship and let's say they didn't fall in love too fast and let's say the other person didn't make them fall in love with them. Breakups are hard. The studies show that breakups are like detoxing from drugs, like detoxing from cocaine. Because you're so addicted to that feeling of love that your body and mind are literally going through a detox. That's what it actually feels like. So those feelings are valid. Those feelings are real. And those feelings are not over like estimated they're real. They, they belong. So what do you do? You're grieving a potential person that you thought you'd spend the rest of your life with. You're grieving the person that you thought you were with that person. And you're grieving the plans you had for the future. There's a lot of grieving going on in this process. What do you do? The first thing I'd say to that person is I would actually remind yourself of all the signs that you missed when you were together that this was the wrong person. There were lots of signs. You just ignored them because the sex was great or you ignored them because they said the right thing in the evening. You ignored them because you didn't want to be lonely. You ignored them because you loved the gift they gave you on your birthday. You ignored them because your friends thought they were really cool. There were loads of signs you ignored for other reasons. That you now need to remind yourself of, because those signs start to become missing parts of the story that you're telling yourself, right? You're telling yourself a story that, this was the love of my life. You've got to find every plot hole in that story, right? And that happens by talking to your friends again, talking to the people that knew that person again, and making sure you're actually aware of filling in all those plot holes. When you start filling in all those plot holes, you start to go, oh, wait a minute. Maybe they weren't the love of my life. But then you feel the opposite. Then you feel, God, I'm really messed up, right? And maybe I don't deserve love. Right now it's like, okay, they want the love of my life, but will anyone ever love me? So now I'm in that hole. So what do I do with that hole? One thing that I find really useful for people if they're in the hole of will anyone ever love me? Is starting to feel love from real relationships in their life that are not romantic.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

We undervalue love that isn't romantic. You could have three friends, a child, a mom and a dad, a brother, a sister that loves you with all their heart. And if you don't have a partner who's romantic, you'll say, I'm not worthy of love, which makes zero sense. So start noticing all the people in your life that actually love you, because that actually shows you that you're worthy of love. Now you're just looking for the romantic part to come in. And then the third and final thing that I'd want people to do when they're going through a breakup is truly realize that there is no quick fix. There is two steps forward, three steps back. There is the moment that I'm gonna keep grieving. And one thing I loved that I learned. I was told this by Katie Couric, but I think it's written by a name named Jessica. Forget a surname. Do you remember it? Yeah. There's this lady named Jessica. I'll try and find her second name, but she. She wrote this, and I learned about it from Katie Couric. She talked about how grief is like a stone in your pocket. And that stone never goes away. That grief of could have been with that person. They were the love of my life. It's like a stone in your pocket that you're holding on to, and that stone will never go away. But as you get stronger, the stone gets lighter. You notice it. Less chills, right? When you get more confident in who you are. The stone never goes away, but it gets easier to hold.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And all of a sudden, you don't even feel it anymore.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So the goal is, how can you get stronger? How can you get more confident? How can you build yourself up? Whatever you need, whatever your path to that is, that's what your focus has to be, because as soon as you get stronger, that stone gets lighter.

[A]

Wow. I never really thought of it that way.

[B]

It's beautiful to remember that, because I think we're trying to get over the stone. The stone's always going to be there. It's in your pocket. It's just not going away.

[A]

Yourself stronger. So you feel the weight of it.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Jess. Okay, so that's by a wonderful writer named Jess Watson, and I learned about it through Katie Couric, who shared it with me. But.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Jess Watson wrote it.

[A]

Do you ever believe in, like, consuming, like, media to make yourself feel better?

[B]

For sure.

[A]

That's usually what I like.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

So, like, I would tell this person to listen to LOML by Taylor Swift.

[B]

Absolutely. Go for it. Yeah. Absolutely. Listen to breakup songs, Listen to love songs, do whatever you want. I mean, all of that stuff's great. I'm trying to give the. You know, I'm trying to give the. The hard work part.

[C]

Right.

[B]

But you should hang out with friends. Do what you need to do. Like, I'm giving you the. The stuff that has to happen under it to really deal with what's going.

[A]

No. 100.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you. Okay, well, I was gonna ask what music you listen to, because I am just now curious.

[B]

So I listen to my main. I have spaces. I listen to music. So I pretty much only listen to music in the gym.

[A]

Only pretty much.

[B]

I love driving in silence. I. I absolutely love it. Yeah, I know. I'm crazy. Like, I absolutely loved. I will drive in silence or I'll make a phone call. I'll call someone.

[A]

Okay. Yeah, I can get behind that.

[B]

I call a lot of friends because I. Because all my. My best friends live in London, so I'm always trying to find a moment I can catch them. And usually when I'm in a car, I can catch some calm on WhatsApp.

[A]

Huh?

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, they love it. Yeah. So I talked to a lot of friends back in London. I'll call my mom or call my sister. So I spend most of my free time calling people. But if I'm not, I drive in silence. Why is that? I feel like it's kind of like that dishwasher of sleep I find, like, when I'm driving, I can really work through my thoughts, figure things out, kind of file away some thoughts here and there. I find it really therapeutic. It's been like that for a while.

[A]

Do you like to file your thoughts?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I like to file them away going, what thought do I want to think about right now? Or I open the tab. All right, done with that one. Let's put it away. That's kind of how I think about my life.

[A]

What do you think about the Inside out movies?

[B]

They're great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So good. Yeah. They're giving people a vocabulary for their mind. It's brilliant. I love the Inside. And Inside out, too was surprisingly good, too.

[C]

Right.

[B]

It wasn't as good as the first, but it was.

[A]

Oh, you didn't think.

[B]

No, you. You preferred it.

[A]

Yeah. Because they introduced anxiety.

[B]

Yeah. It's more relatable.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah, I felt it more.

[B]

Yeah. I like the Inside out movies, but, yeah, I think. Yeah, I listen in the gym. I'll listen to. I'll listen to everything from Drake through to generally. I grew up on a lot of hip hop, R B. Like, that's what I grew up on. So that's what usually is my gym playlist.

[A]

Amazing. Yeah. I listen to Drake in the gym as well.

[B]

Yeah. Sometimes it's the only way to get Jake and. Well, Drake listens to Taylor Swift in the gym, right.

[A]

He does. Do you remember.

[B]

Oh, that amazing music video.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Music video. It was so good.

[A]

She was listening to him too, and she fell on the track.

[B]

It was very good advertising. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Only one more. Yeah.

[C]

Why?

[A]

You're almost at two hours, Jay.

[B]

This time has flow.

[A]

I didn't even know time flies with you.

[B]

Time is flow.

[A]

Have you gotten that before?

[B]

I'm glad you feel that way, too.

[A]

I literally feel like I've been talking to you for five minutes.

[B]

No, I. I feel like a lot of. See, that's how I feel. I feel. I feel like a lot of podcasts these days have got shorter. We do a long one, too, so I'm used to. But I love that you've felt that way.

[A]

Have you had a good time here?

[B]

I've had the best time.

[A]

I've also had, like, an incredible time. I want to make sure that you also.

[B]

This is totally. I will. If you give me your number, I will message you. I. I actually. No, no, wait, wait. Actually, let's talk about. I actually DM'd you my number and said, hey, Jake. So, first of all, I DM Jake. Well, where's My phone. Let's. Let's read it for the. I think my. Oh, yeah, get my ig. Yeah. So wait, I have to do this.

[A]

I don't know. I'm sick.

[B]

I'm just going to remind you of this wonderful man who has not responded since last night. Okay, Listen to this. So this is mine and Jake Shane's DM thread. This is me on February 19th at 7:09pm Respectable hour, right? Love everything you're doing. Three high five or prayer hand emojis, whatever you call them, for whichever people you are. Congratulations. Right? So then Jake comes back and goes, J in all capital letters. I'm such a huge fan. Thank you. And I say, feeling it. And then I heart that. And I say, feeling is mutual. Love your energy. Can't wait to connect in person. Jake hearts that. He goes, me too. It's going to be awesome. I don't heart that one. But I say my number is. Oh, oh, God, let me. I say, yeah, don't do that. I say my number is whatever it is. And then you heart that. And then no message back. No text.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

No DM back, nothing. So then on March 25th, a month later, I messaged and I say, love the piece in the Hollywood Reporter. Congrats, bud, because it was brilliant. I really loved it. And then Jake messages back saying, thank you, pumped to get together soon.

[A]

And I go, that's what I said.

[B]

Yeah. I say, me too. Let me know whenever you want to come over and hang. I said, I will. Do you live in la? I say, yes. You. No reply.

[A]

No, I'm sick.

[B]

Not. Not even seen.

[A]

Okay. Sometimes I miss messages, Jay.

[B]

That's why I gave you my number, Jake.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Three messages before it. So if you give me your number today, which now I'm forcing you, now I feel really desperate. No, maybe I don't want. No, actually, I don't want your number.

[A]

Well, it's. You gave me yours, so I must change it within the hour. I'm gonna text you.

[B]

I will wait to see if you text me first. But no, I would. I. I've had a great time. I love telling people when I'm having a. It's been so much fun. And this is your greatest skill, is you have this ability to bring things out of people that they don't usually talk about and say. And that's how I felt today. Like. And really? Yeah. Like, we've gone in so many interesting directions. I've told stories I've never told before. Like, we've. We've talked about so many interesting things. I love it.

[A]

So I've had the best time with you ever, and I'm so excited to now ask you my final question. What did we learn today?

[B]

Oh, what did we learn today? I think we learned we should not start our day with our phone or end our day with our phone. We learned that we should stop looking at humans, how we look at technology and treat them as humans and people and not expect them to be as entertaining as our phones.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And realize that there's so much more than that. And I think we learned that you are really vulnerable, really thoughtful, and that you have more superpowers than you're aware of. And when you start putting those superpowers into practice, you're gonna find the love of your life in the most beautiful ways. That's what we learned.

[A]

I learned that you learned what a crash out is, and I learned everything that you just said to me just now is what I learned.

[B]

And we learned you're a great listener.

[A]

I. Oh, yeah. I also learned I'm a good listener because you said, how long my wife and I been together? 12 years, nine in marriage. I didn't even have to think about it.

[B]

I love it.

[A]

So.

[B]

You're the best.

[A]

You could literally quiz me, and I would tell you anything. Well, Jay, I'm going to text you, and I would like to get together.

[B]

Outside to check in and see why he hasn't texted me. I'll just take your number just in.

[A]

Case we need you for our.

[B]

I'm in.

[A]

We do need you, Jay. I really love spending time with you. I'm so grateful you came today, and I really, really needed this.

[B]

Thank you. I needed.

[A]

Super grateful that you were here.

[B]

I needed this, too. And I learned so much. Thank you.

[A]

So I learned so much, too. Do you want to say little Bye, pussies?

[B]

Of course. Bye, pussies.

[A]

Bye, guys.