Session 95: Dylan O'Brien

Summary

Podcast Summary: Therapuss with Jake Shane

Episode: Session 95 – Dylan O’Brien

Date: September 18, 2025

Guest: Dylan O’Brien
Host: Jake Shane

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Overview of the Episode

In this engaging and often hilarious “therapy session,” host Jake Shane welcomes Dylan O’Brien for a conversation that artfully explores both the light and deep sides of life, relationships, mental health, and career. From reminiscing about Teen Wolf and discussing the themes in Dylan’s new film "Twinless," to swapping stories about Jersey Shore, mental health struggles, and the quirks of being a millennial, the episode blends introspection, banter, and practical advice—true to the signature Therapuss tone.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Astrology, Millennials, and Icebreakers

• Jake opens by guessing Dylan’s star sign, leading into a playful discussion about astrology and how generational identity shapes self-perception.
• Memorable moment:
  • [02:25] Dylan: “Oh yeah, babe, I know [my star chart]…”
  • [08:16] Dylan: “I guess I feel insecure about being a millennial.”
• Jake reassures Dylan about millennial identity. [08:28]: “I think I’ll feel that way one day about being Gen Z. But that time hasn’t come yet.”

2. Planes, Edibles, and Anxieties

• Discussion of travel rituals, with both talking about taking edibles on flights, and how weed can both soothe and spark anxiety.
• [03:43] Dylan: “Are we ever fine the first 15 minutes after we… [smoke]? Like, why do we choose that?”
• They riff on the creativity and food enjoyment that comes with being high, but also the initial anxiety.

3. Pets, Normal Life, and Social Media

• Dylan shares about his dog, Tony (“Rigatoni” with a Y), and why he dislikes the “COVID dog” label—insisting he was intentional about pet ownership. [10:26]: “When I got my dog, things were already open back up. I was very, like, intentional about that because of socializing the dog.”
• Both discuss enjoying "normal life" outside the entertainment bubble.

4. Teen Wolf and Early Acting Journeys

• Dylan relives his Teen Wolf memories, maintaining a sentimental attachment to the T-shirt he wore in the pilot ([14:18] “It’s just a touch of sentimentality and...it’s like a one little keepsake from the show”), and revisits the plot and impact of the series.
• Dylan opens up about stumbling into acting via YouTube sketches as “Movie Kid,” his lack of formal training, and the role of accidental virality.
  • [23:15] “Honey, I don’t know if I’ve ever talked about this...I was coaching a Little League baseball team...”
• Jake gets Dylan to reflect on how loneliness as a kid made him creative.
  • [26:27] Dylan: “I seriously think about that a lot. Even with so much with Twinless coming out. We’ve been talking so much about kind of themes of loneliness and...how informative that can be.”

5. "Twinless" – Themes & Reception

• Jake explains why audiences, particularly young gay people and anyone who’s experienced grief, should see the film.
• The duo unpacks the importance of forgiveness and empathy for the flawed protagonist.
  • [28:04] Dylan: “It’s a good barometer...of your kind of relationship to forgiveness.”
• Dylan shares the difficulty of getting "Twinless" made, how people found the character “irreedeemable,” and why he’s proud of its empathetic storytelling ([29:11] “It’s been a journey with this film...a large part...was because people deemed that character to be completely irredeemable…”).
• Jake confesses having to pause the movie from stress, especially the art museum and double date scenes ([30:32] – “There was moments where I had to pause it...I was so stressed out.”).

6. Being Yourself, Reality TV, and East Coast Upbringing

• They swap stories about loving Jersey Shore, directness, and how “being yourself” (à la Snooki or Lena Dunham) is admirable and rare.
• Directness as kindness:
  • [45:44] Dylan: “Directness, to me, is kindness, in a way that I don’t think people receive that the same way...I much prefer a person who might be perceived as aggressive, but tell you straight to your face.”
• Both reflect on growing up on the East Coast and its “tell it like it is” culture.

7. Mental Health: OCD, ADHD & Therapy

• Jake and Dylan discuss their experiences with ADHD and OCD, the stigma around medication, and how compulsions can shape daily life.
  • [52:48] Jake details OCD rituals: “I used to...add a song to a playlist...four times...when I would watch...Netflix, sometimes I’d have to watch a scene four times...”
• Touch on therapy, its value, and the challenges of “doing therapy right” ([64:01] “No, I think it’s normal to not feel that yourself”).

8. Hollywood Real Talk: Acting, Fame & Control

• Dylan is candid about his “normal” lifestyle between projects and his aversion to set visits when not working ([37:01] “I really don’t like being on sets when I’m not working. Why?”).
• On not being a “control freak” but disliking when people assume they know him based on press or online snippets.
  • [77:26] “I hate people just sort of deciding that they know who I am...I’m very sensitive about my character.”

9. Advice Columns: “Tell Me What’s Wrong” Write-ins

• Classic "Therapuss" segment where audience dilemmas are addressed with candor:
  • Roommate drinks too much but is fun (solution: early 20s, they’ll figure it out – [61:54]).
  • Rekindled high-school romance with old bad habits (solution: “sounds like it would be good for them to break up” – [65:15])
  • Wanting to act but lacking experience: Just try, make little things with friends, but Dylan cautions, “I wouldn’t encourage anyone to pursue acting...I got really, really lucky.” [71:00]
  • Boyfriend runs from mountain lion, leaves girlfriend: (“You can’t hold someone hostage over an instinct in a moment of panic and make it about you” – [73:09])

10. Reflections on Aging, Growth, and Comfort

• Dylan expresses comfort with his 30s and says he wouldn’t want to go back to his 20s ([86:36]).
• Both observe how meaningful conversation is more fulfilling than big social noise as they grow up.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dylan O’Brien on millennial insecurity:

  • [08:16] “I guess I feel insecure about being a millennial.”

• On loneliness and creativity:

  • [26:27] “If you’ve experienced periods of [loneliness] in your childhood, how informative that can be. And so I think that’s so much of what brought me to that project.”

• On acting and authenticity:

  • [35:23] “The only way I could even do it is by, like, going off of things that I know are real, things that feel authentic…”

• On directness as kindness:

  • [45:44] “Directness, to me, is kindness in a way that I don’t think people receive that the same way...I much prefer a person who might be perceived as, like, aggressive...but tell you straight to your face.”

• On OCD compulsions:

  • [52:48] Jake: “When I would add a song to a playlist, I would have to add it four times.”

• On being “sensitive” and defensive of character:

  • [77:37] Dylan: “I hate people just sort of deciding that they know who I am, I guess, you know...I’m very sensitive about my character.”

• Advice to young actors:

  • [67:09] “Give it a shot...because it’s a crap shoot anyway. Even if you were, you know, currently in school...the things you can control at least are like, if you want to be doing that, then, like, do it. Go to LA. Find people who also want to be doing it.”

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Important Timestamps

• Star Signs & Icebreakers: [02:03 – 05:34]
• Flying high/anxiety/weed: [02:49 – 04:05]
• Millennial Identity: [08:09 – 08:28]
• Dog stories & Tony the Rigatoni: [09:50 – 11:06]
• Teen Wolf Memories: [14:45 – 16:11]
• Transition to Acting/YouTube beginnings: [23:15 – 27:27]
• Twinless, empathy & forgiveness: [27:29 – 29:38]
• On Directness & East Coast culture: [45:44 – 47:03]
• OCD, ADHD & Mental Health: [52:48 – 53:59]
• Audience Dilemmas: [61:30 – 73:49]
• Discussion on control and fame: [77:02 – 80:28]
• Reflections on aging, social comfort: [86:31 – 87:44]

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Tone & Language

The episode is conversational and irreverent, mixing witty banter (“I guess I do have range. Wow” – Jake [34:00]) with honest confessionals and moments of genuine vulnerability. Both host and guest show a knack for self-deprecation, warmth, and quick adaptation to emotional honesty—even within the chaos of their tangents and inside jokes.

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Final Takeaways

• Vulnerability & Realness: Dylan and Jake model open discussion of insecurity, mental health, and change, shattering the myth that public personas are always polished or static.
• Creativity from Loneliness: Early isolation bred unexpected creativity in Dylan, leading him from “Movie Kid” on YouTube to acclaimed acting roles.
• Advice: Empathy and forgiveness are crucial—both in movies, life, and relationships. And sometimes, you just need to let go of the mountain lion moment.
• Career: There’s no formula in Hollywood; luck, timing, and self-made work all matter.
• Aging: Embracing each stage, with honesty about its challenges. Greater value is found in authentic one-on-one connections than the background noise of a big crowd.

Closing Moments:
Dylan: “You’re way more mentally sound than you think you are.” [88:36]
Jake: “Thank you so much.”
Dylan: “That’s so great. Or at least if you’re in your own hot mess-ness, I feel like you handle it really well.” [88:51]

End: They agree to meet up in New York, expressing real enjoyment and camaraderie.
Jake: “Thank you for coming on, Therapuss.”
Dylan: “Thanks for having me anytime. And I had a terrible morning.”
Jake: “I could never tell. It’s true.”

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is perfect for fans of conversational podcasts that mix humor with substance, especially if you appreciate inside-Hollywood stories, deep dives into creative journeys, honest talk about mental health, and unfiltered friendship chemistry. You’ll leave with some practical advice and a smile—whether you’re dealing with a roommate who parties too much, aspiring to act, or just figuring out your 20s and 30s.

Transcript

[A]

Packages by Expedia. You were made to occasionally take the hard route to the top of the Eiffel Tower. We were made to easily bundle your trip Expedia made to travel flight inclusive.

[B]

Packages are ator protected. Hi, pussies. Tonight we have on Dylan o' Brien in the therapist office. I have been watching Dylan since the Teen Wolf days. I was a big Teen Wolf fan when I was younger, so it was pretty amazing to get to have him in the therapist office and also talk about his new movie Twin Lists with James Sweeney, which is out already. It is literally incredible. I can't talk too much about the movie because, I mean, like, I. I could, but then it would ruin it. Like, you kind of just need to go in blind. It's really, really, really amazing. It, like, really, really captivated me for like, the entire time. Like, it was.

[A]

I.

[B]

It's a really, really good film, especially if you're young and gay. I think you should really see it. It's amazing. Also, if you've ever dealt with grief, it's. It's like, actually an amazing movie. But yeah, I got to talk to Dylan about Teen Wolf twin. Less how old he thinks I am. I just got back from New York, so if I feel a little down, that's why I. I love la. Okay? I love la. New York is too intense for me, and it's. It's funny saying that because I grew up there, but it's just a lot of drinking and, you know, I puffy and I'm tired and I don't know how people do it anymore, but props to them because they. Julia and Payton. Props to you guys because I don't know how you do it. I was literally suffering on the last day, but I had a great time. I had an amazing time in New York and I love it there. To submit tell me what's wrongs, go to past thatpuss.com, click tell me what's wrong and leave a name and number if you're feeling fancy. Okay. Enjoy the episode. Love you. You have great energy. What's your star sign?

[A]

Yeah, would you want to get into. Do you want to start with that?

[B]

Well, I guess. What is your star sign?

[A]

Do you want to.

[B]

You want me to guess?

[A]

Actually, yeah.

[B]

Okay. Are you Leo?

[A]

No, but I'm a rising. Like, that's how I present checks out.

[B]

Oh, wait, so you know. Okay. So are you.

[A]

Oh, yeah, babe, I know.

[B]

Are you a Capricorn?

[A]

No, but I'm, like, flattered.

[B]

Okay. Are you a Libra?

[A]

No. What are you Virgo?

[B]

When's your birthday?

[A]

August 26th.

[B]

Happy belated.

[A]

Thanks, babe. Yeah, appreciate it.

[B]

Thanks.

[A]

Listen, it was the 26th. I was flying on my birthday, which I actually, like, enjoyed.

[B]

You like flying?

[A]

I'm at peace in the air. You listen to music? I don't know what it is. Oh, yeah. All kinds of stuff. I'll either be. All kinds of stuff up there. Yeah. I'll either be. I'll either read, I'll either get, like, work done, or I'll completely just have a fuck off time. I'll always be on an edible.

[B]

Okay. So I used to have. I used to really, really do that on planes.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But it just. It got too far.

[A]

Oh, whoa.

[B]

I was smoking. I would smoke, like, every day of my life.

[A]

Yeah?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

What happened? I went through.

[B]

I was just. I would get so anxious on it, and then I was like, I think. I think I need to lose weight. And I don't think this is helping.

[A]

I think you're fine.

[B]

Well, thank you. Well, that's because I stopped smoking weed.

[A]

Yeah. It is so funny, isn't it? It's like we. I do crack up about this. Even smoking now. Like, I have. I'm fine smoking now, but are we ever fine the first 15 minutes after we.

[B]

No.

[A]

Like, why do we choose that?

[B]

Because. So creative. Everything tastes better, everything sounds better.

[A]

But that first 15 minutes is hell. Every time it's rough. So funny.

[B]

I got high and watched the Conjuring this weekend.

[A]

The new one?

[B]

No, the. The og.

[A]

Are you preparing for the new one?

[B]

Yeah, I am. It's one of the scariest movies I've ever seen.

[A]

They're competing with us.

[B]

They are.

[A]

They're on the same week.

[B]

Okay. Well, I think Twin is better. I watched Twin List this weekend.

[A]

Whoa. Let's say that. Thank you. Do you want to save it?

[B]

Save it for.

[A]

Do we go back to star signs? I'm, like, all over the place.

[B]

No, it's. That makes sense.

[A]

Over. It's over.

[B]

No, no, I mean, we can keep. Do you want to guess what star sign I am?

[A]

Are you a Libra?

[B]

No. And I've never. No one's ever guessed that before.

[A]

That is interesting. Well, I mean, we just met, right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Like, I've been talking for five minutes. Just another shot in the dark. I don't know. Are you fire? Are you Earth? Because I'm. I'm a little Earth. Okay, so you're a Pisces.

[B]

No, but I love Pisces. I'm Scorpio.

[A]

Oh. Incredible.

[B]

Gemini Rising. Gemini Moon.

[A]

Incredible. Okay. Wow.

[B]

What's your moon?

[A]

My moon's in Pisces. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is exciting.

[B]

I know. I love Pisces. My best. My best friends at Pisces, so.

[A]

But you like Pisces men.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I was gonna say. I feel like with every yes sign. Hear me out. I feel like I'll be like, oh, love a Scorpio. And then I'll be like, Scorpio men, though, I don't. No.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Scorpio man is one that I do. I have a lot of Scorpio men friends.

[B]

Are they November or October Scorpios?

[A]

Oh, November, for the most part.

[B]

Oh, God bless you. They are a lot.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

November Scorpios are a lot.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

But I'm an October Scorpio.

[A]

I have one in particular who goes way back to high school, and he is the most insane friend I've ever had to this day.

[B]

Does he lie frequently?

[A]

That's interesting. On, like, a deep level? No. But, like, very surface level, honestly. But yeah. I mean, he's so chaotic.

[B]

Yeah. Scorpios are. They're all over the place.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So you just shot in Portland?

[A]

Yeah. Let's move on to Portland.

[B]

I just shot in Portland. You actually visited the set I was on the day before I got there.

[A]

Oh, my God. Wait, you were on that movie? Yes, I saw the announcement after I went there. That's so funny. But I didn't know when I was there.

[B]

And you saw. And you were like, jake, I know him well.

[A]

I was like, I'm about to meet him in a couple.

[B]

Okay, cool.

[A]

So that's so funny. What? Had you heard that I.

[B]

They were like, dylan o' Brien just visited set. And I was like, oh, really? He's gonna come on my show next week. And then they were like, really? And I was like, yeah, Yeah, I love Portland.

[A]

We worked with them on a whole year. Like. Yeah, but I'm seeing him.

[B]

They said you're the busiest person of all time.

[A]

Me?

[B]

Yeah. They said you're really busy.

[A]

Is this a joke?

[B]

No, but why?

[A]

I take, like, long breaks in between doing things like that.

[B]

So what do you do in breaks?

[A]

Like, live? I was just talking about this. Like, I live really normally, so I guess to people, it seems like maybe to people. To the. This. The industry, I guess, or People. People. That is People.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's such a bubble of, like, a specific lens of the world, I guess. Right. And I just sort of don't. I don't know. I'm just kind of. What do I do? I mean, I. I live very normally, I feel like. And. And that. That includes. I really like winding down with, like, periods of isolation.

[B]

You like being alone?

[A]

Oh, I mean, I love my alone time. It doesn't mean I'm fully isolated. Like, it's not like I'm in, like, you know, it's not like I'm on, like, a darkness retreat or something. Like, I have my dog, and, you know, I take little trips.

[B]

What type of dog do you have?

[A]

He's. Do you want to see him? I have to turn my phone back on because, out of respect, I turned it off.

[B]

You turn it off. You are so respectful.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

I also like, you know, a millennial.

[B]

Wait. I love millennials.

[A]

Do you?

[B]

More than anything in the world.

[A]

I'm proud of you. Really?

[B]

Yes. Lena Dunham's a millennial. Love her.

[A]

Wait, that's so cute. I'm like, I'm. I'm so obsessed with hearing that because I feel like. I guess I feel insecure about being a millennial.

[B]

You feel insecure about being a millennial?

[A]

Clearly. I think I'm realizing it right now.

[B]

It's okay. I think I'll feel that way one day about being Gen Z. But that time hasn't come yet.

[A]

No. How old are you?

[B]

Guess.

[A]

22.

[B]

Oh, thank you. I'm 25. 25. Somebody once guessed 29. It was super foul.

[A]

Oh, okay. I was gonna say. Well, yeah, I was excited to see what you were so ecstatic about before you revealed your age, but it was just the awe.

[B]

First. Your phone case is so artsy. Is that wildflower?

[A]

I actually don't. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

The brand.

[B]

Oh, you. You use wildflower?

[A]

Yeah. Babe, you're kind of.

[B]

It's kind of Gen Z of you.

[A]

Okay, that's. Oh, interesting. I didn't realize that. I just thought it was really pretty. It's.

[B]

That's a gorgeous case. I kind of want one. Yeah. Wow.

[A]

I thought you were vaping. That's so funny.

[B]

Is that an aura ring as well?

[A]

Just. It is, yeah.

[B]

You like those?

[A]

I mean, I love it. Yeah. I guess I. I guess what I didn't anticipate about it is how many.

[B]

People would ask about it.

[A]

What a thing they would be.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

I thought it would be a little more discreet, and. And I'm just like, oh, yeah. I'm tracking my stats, and I do love that aspect. You. I see that you don't have one unless you rocking A to my.

[B]

My mattress tracks it for me. Oh, yeah.

[A]

Hold on. Need to talk about this in a second.

[B]

I know everyone's always fascinated. It's sleep.

[A]

Okay, so Tony is.

[B]

Tony, you are Italian. It.

[A]

I. It was. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's based off of pasta noodle, rigatoni. Yeah, he's with a Y. Spell it with a Y.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But that's him.

[B]

That would be your dog. So cute.

[A]

He's really funny. He's amazing.

[B]

How long have you had him for?

[A]

He's four and a half now. So, yeah, I mean, I've had him.

[B]

So he's a covet dog.

[A]

20, 21. So, yeah, I mean, it was going on, but not really, because here's why I reject that.

[B]

Okay, you tell me.

[A]

Yeah, because, like, I feel like a lot of people got dogs during initial quarantine when they were sort of strapped to their houses, and they're like, I'm bored. I want something to play with. And then, like, kind of gave the dog to their parents once the world opened back up again. And so I don't want to claim that experience. Like, I. When I got my dog, things were already open back up. I was very, like, intentional about that because of socializing the dog. I love that we're talking about this right now. Clearly, I take it very seriously. I think I'm only realizing that now.

[B]

But you socialize the dog.

[A]

Oh, yeah. Like, he was even. I think he was five months the first time I flew him. And that was like. Because I knew obviously he was going to need to be able to travel with me and stuff. So a lot of his training early on in puppyhood was, like, geared towards getting him ready for flying. Yeah.

[B]

Oh, right. Because he must fly everywhere.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So sorry. The TV out there is so loud.

[A]

Oh, you have unreal hearing and I can't, you know.

[B]

You know.

[A]

Oh, it's us.

[B]

It's us. Well, it's. It's just because I watched Teen Wolf last night, so, you know, my hearing is very.

[A]

Okay, so tell me about this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And by the way, what a fluid transition.

[B]

I felt that one, too. I was like. I just transitioned. Well, yeah.

[A]

What? Yeah, tell me about watching Teeth last night.

[B]

Well, I was in bed and I was like. To my best friend, I was like, well, you know, Dylan o' Brien's coming on tomorrow. Why don't we watch Teen Wolf? You know, I used to watch it all the time as a kid.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

I was a big MTV guy.

[A]

Oh, amazing.

[B]

So I was like, when it came out 11. Well, I started watching MTV when I was nine because I started watching Jersey Shore Which I know you love.

[A]

Scandalous love. Yeah. I mean, all time.

[B]

All time.

[A]

All time.

[B]

Snooki's been on the show.

[A]

You've had Snooki.

[B]

I went to her house in the Jersey Shore.

[A]

I'm freaking.

[B]

And then we went to the bar. We went to the bars.

[A]

Shut the fuck up.

[B]

Swear.

[A]

That's incredible.

[B]

Swear.

[A]

Oh, I need to. I'm going to watch this episode as soon as I. As soon as we're done here.

[B]

We can FaceTime her later.

[A]

Are you serious, dad?

[B]

Serious?

[A]

I'd be so curious to see if she has any idea who I am, because obviously, early Teen Wolf days, we were always, like, in spaces with them, Right? But, you know, it was very. Like they were them.

[B]

Right? She was her. She is her.

[A]

I mean, she is her.

[B]

It's my favorite show of all time.

[A]

So, like, the only interaction I ever had with Snooki was one time we were sitting in some communal green room space at some thing, and she was, like, sat up on a couch, and it was just kind of like this. And I just went, hi, Snooki. How are you?

[B]

She's her.

[A]

I loved it. Yeah. She rocks.

[B]

She took me to the bars on the Jersey Shore.

[A]

How did this go?

[B]

We blacked out. We ate fried pickles, and she lost her wallet. It was insane.

[A]

My dream.

[B]

Yeah. It was amazing.

[A]

This is incredible.

[B]

And then Gianni pulled up with all the kids. It was like a thing. It was like the best time of my life.

[A]

I love them so much that, like, it's hard to describe it to people.

[B]

No. If you don't watch it, you don't get it.

[A]

No.

[B]

Have you ever been on Law and Order svu?

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay. Sorry. I just.

[A]

Like, as a kid or something.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I just. I didn't start acting until basically immediately before T. That's what I was cracking up. You putting on the pilot, you said, right? Yeah.

[B]

You. You enter upside down. That's my first introduction to you.

[A]

Yes. And I'm worried I still have that T shirt.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I read about this.

[B]

Yes. That you wear it.

[A]

Research.

[B]

I know.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You wear it to every set. Is that like an OCD thing or what?

[A]

Might be. No. I guess it's a touch of. Hang on. Can you still hear me if I'm doing this?

[B]

Well, no, Lincoln. No. No.

[A]

Sound vape guy. Yeah. Now? Yeah. If you project a little bit. Yeah. Okay. No, you know what it is? It's just a touch of sentimentality and. I don't know, it's like a one little keepsake from the show. I Mean, that show was so many years of my life.

[B]

Did you do every season?

[A]

Yeah, I did. I only missed some of the episodes in the last season, so I think I ended up in, like, 93 total. And there was 100 episodes.

[B]

So remind me.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

What happened? What happens to Styles? Do you become a werewolf, too?

[A]

No.

[B]

You become a hunter?

[A]

No.

[B]

So you know I'm a vampire.

[A]

No.

[B]

You just. Styles?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You want to know one of my deepest, darkest fears I got from that show There. I don't know if you remember this. There is some girl, and she's climbing. It's in gym class, and she's climbing the rock wall, and she, like, tastes blood in her mouth and then she has a seizure.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So every single time I taste blood or metallic in my mouth, I think I'm having a seizure.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Because of Teen Wolf.

[A]

Wow. This is interest. I do want to know. It's so hard for me to, I guess, know, like, what Teen Wolf was to kids who were kids, I guess, when it came on. You know what I mean? Like, what it would be compared to for, like, my generation. Like, what I was watching or something. I don't know.

[B]

I was watching that. I was watching, like, Vampire Diaries. Like Pretty Little Liars.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Gossip Girl. I was watching all the soapy stuff. Scandal.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Soapy Scandal. Supernatural.

[B]

I never saw Supernatural.

[A]

No, sorry, I meant in genre. Why?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. I never saw.

[B]

You never see Scandal.

[A]

Scandal, the show.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm aware of it. I don't. I don't remember ever watching it. It's really good.

[B]

Next time you take isolation time is Scandal.

[A]

Shonda Rhymes. Am I totally. Okay. Okay.

[B]

It's Shonda Land.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And it is.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Simply the greatest copy.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You gotta. What else do you watch?

[A]

Like now.

[B]

Like, now. So I can. Because you calibrated my taste, I want to calibrate yours.

[A]

Oh, no, I'm so. It'. It's really, like. It's hard to pin down. It's another thing I think I might be insecure about that we're finding out. I do. Like, it's like I say, I tell people that, like, you know, I. I watch reality. Right. But I. It's not like I'm like a Bravo head. It's not like I'm watching every Housewives show. And it's not like I consume it like that, so. But I also kind of like, I. I do watch a lot of movies, but, like, I think, really ones that. How could I possibly give you an example? I watched, like, really bad movies, but like trolls? No. I don't know.

[B]

I was just like, what could this possibly be?

[A]

Don't be mean to trolls.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

I feel like it did pretty well.

[B]

It did. And I think Rihanna wrote a song for it, so.

[A]

Did she?

[B]

Yeah, she. I think she wrote like multiple.

[A]

What the.

[B]

Yeah, she. That's the only music she's released in the past 10 years.

[A]

That's incredible. She can do that and still be her.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, if I was in Trolls, it, you know, it'd be over.

[B]

What? I'd be like, o' Brien's in Trolls.

[A]

You're so supportive.

[B]

Maybe I should. You hear that? She says I'm so unsupportive.

[A]

Really? Your manager? Yeah. How did you guys meet, by the way? What's this dynamic?

[B]

We used to be co workers.

[A]

Still are. You're like, now I'm her boss.

[B]

No, no, no. But like, she. I. The.

[A]

Her.

[B]

I. Her boss. I was the assistant for copy.

[A]

Doing what?

[B]

Being a really bad assistant.

[A]

I was a really bad assistant.

[B]

You were an assistant.

[A]

It's like not that amazing of a story, but for. Yeah, one. I. When I was 18, sports world. No, Kid I was living. Kid I was living with was an assistant to the. This music producer who was cutting Katy Perry's album at the time. And like, I had just done the pilot presentation of Teen Wolf. So that means that, like, we had just shot like half of the pilot as like a presentation to maybe get greenlit. And so I was out. I was going to community college at the time. I was going to Santa Monica Community College. And I was kind of waiting for the winter. There's a six week winter semester that I didn't attend because I had to go do the pilot. So I missed two weeks and I. Whatever. So I was doing nothing. He needed somebody to cover for him for a couple days. And I was like, yeah, I'll do it, you know. And then so basically ended up I was there. So on time. 10:00am Got in there. I remember the day before too. I had asked the kid. I was like, is there anything that I need to know? Should I come in today? You show me, like around. He's like, so chill. Don't even worry about it. And so I was like, okay. And then I. I go in there. It's really funny in hindsight now because I'm like, I so need to know, like, that stuff. I get so overwhelmed. Well, I will later find out, like, did they.

[B]

Do you have to like, transfer calls?

[A]

Did I not know how to do, like, any of it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So basically, I got in there. There was a list of what would sound like really simple things like make the coffees, order the sandwiches, walk the dog. It's not simple, but I immediately get to this, like, mouse trap looking like espresso machine. That's obviously one thing that would have been really useful to have been, like, taught how to use. I had no idea how to make the coffees. The sandwiches was, like, the only thing that I could, like, call and order, but the place wasn't open yet, so I was like, all right, I'm gonna table that for a second. I'm just gonna, like, try to figure out this coffee machine. But I was kind of freaking out, like, hearing people arriving and.

[B]

Do you remember where the sandwiches were from?

[A]

No. No idea.

[B]

Yeah, I would. This was a.

[A]

This is so many lifetimes ago, but, like, I remember basically just freezing and. And not getting any of it done. And then by the time, like, the kind of older assistant came in and was like, coffees? And I was like, no. And he's like, sandwiches. And I was like, no.

[B]

And so he was like, so what?

[A]

Dogs are on the floor? And I was like, yeah, he did. And then the producer came in, and he hands me 40 bucks. He goes, you know what? You just take off, and you left. I was home at 11am on my couch. So how did the hell did we get here?

[B]

I don't know, but isn't that kind of beautiful?

[A]

Yeah, it's really good.

[B]

It's really good conversations.

[A]

No, I'm really talking to you.

[B]

Do you swear?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Where you look just now, I just, like, around. I was kind of nervous.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Well, I was going to ask. You said you did the pilot presentation for Teen Wolf.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

So when you did that, were you like, oh, this show's about to.

[A]

Could not have thought that less.

[B]

Really? You were like, everyone's gonna hate the show.

[A]

I mean, not even that necessarily as much as, like, it was just. I don't know, I was 18, and to me, like, it was. It was MTV. They kind of, like. They didn't describe scripted at the time. Awkward. It was that kind of was the other one that they had another one that preceded those two. RJ Berger.

[B]

No, it was something. It was something about someone going missing.

[A]

Yeah, maybe that also came out. There was a lot that came and went in the time that Teen Wolf and Awkward were kind of on, which was like. And then as soon as we both ended the. I think they went away with.

[B]

From scripting I don't think they're doing scripted anymore.

[A]

No, I know. So. So, no. Like. I mean, it felt like a very, very deep cut thing, if anything, especially, like, you know, I think a large part of the reason that I even felt like I got cast on the show, which I was getting a lot of sort of audition rejections based off my, like, no experience, which was like. And then it felt like this was, like, they were willing to give me a shot, which is really great, and. But I certainly just thought that I was gonna go and get this experience and. Because I had never acted before, like, this was a. I did not grow up acting.

[B]

So what made you want to. How are you like, okay, I'm gonna act.

[A]

This is a really. Honey, I don't know if I've ever talked about this, like.

[B]

Well, you don't have to if you don't want to.

[A]

No, no, no.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm just like. I'm like, how long. How much time of yours do I take with this? I'll try to.

[B]

Well, I'm not in any type of rush if you're not in any type of rush.

[A]

Okay. So, like, I. I was in high school, and I was coaching a Little League baseball team.

[B]

You like baseball?

[A]

Do I like baseball?

[B]

I guess. Enough to coach Little League.

[A]

That's not why I coach the Little League.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But I do love baseball. It's like. Yeah, it's like, in a obsession of mine. Yeah.

[B]

Matt's Yankees.

[A]

Yeah. I'm a huge Mets fan.

[B]

Okay. Oh, Yankees.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

But I don't really care. It's just like.

[A]

I know. I was gonna say just cultural. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You cared enough to give me the.

[B]

Well, just because it's like. Okay, like, I know. I grew up in a Yankees house.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, I get that.

[B]

But I like the Phillies or the Eagles.

[A]

Sorry, I don't have, like, a loathing of Philly. I don't really loathe teams.

[B]

I don't know. We.

[A]

We have.

[B]

Okay, sorry. You were coaching Little League baseball?

[A]

I was coaching a Little League team as a junior in high school. I had. I used to make silly little videos. This was like YouTube OG days, right? I did not have subscribers.

[B]

What was it? Movie nerd. What was it?

[A]

Movie Kid.

[B]

Movie kid. Yeah.

[A]

But whatever you want.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You're like, movie loser. I was like, no, just kid. But you really ran away with that one. No. So it's so fun. So, yeah, I was. I had, like, little silly videos. They kind of, I guess, just within my school and, like, town. Ish. Like, had become somewhat known that I had done these videos.

[B]

What were the videos?

[A]

I was outed by my Spanish teacher. You too? Anyway, I. What do you want to do? Do you want me to keep talking? Yeah, I'm interested because I. I'm over it, so.

[B]

You're over it? Okay. We can move on.

[A]

I'm over.

[B]

So you started acting people and moved on?

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I like again, still. No, not. Didn't think it was like that at all. The videos got seen.

[B]

What were the videos? Sorry, sorry. I just. What were they?

[A]

Look, I know that we were getting along and.

[B]

Okay, I'm sorry.

[A]

I just want to know, but I'm still really sensitive. Okay? They were. They're still there. I think I don't have my password to take them down, so they're still there.

[B]

Would you, like, review movies?

[A]

No, no, no. They're just really silly little sketch type funny, silly, weird little videos that I. Yeah, I guess there. There was a degree. I. At one point I had like a talk show in my, like, computer chair.

[B]

I used to do something similar. A critics point of view.

[A]

Were you also lonely?

[B]

Yeah, quite lonely.

[A]

Well, it's amazing how that breeds, you know, these types of things. Like, I. I seriously think about that a lot. Even with so much with Twin this coming out. We've been talking so much about kind of themes of loneliness and experiencing, you know, if you've experienced periods of that in your childhood, how informative that can be. And so I think that's so much of like, what brought me to that project. And interestingly enough, it is what kind of brought me to doing this at all, because it's. It's sort of bred my being alone in my room and, you know, doing what I thought was fun, which was like, making little videos was a great.

[B]

Transition, by the way.

[A]

I didn't even mean to do it.

[B]

Yeah, well, you, you know, you could do this full time. Yeah. Okay. Well, when I. When I watched Twin less, I really, you know, I. I really related to Dennis. And then my mom was like, what?

[A]

No, honestly, good on you for even, like, admitting it.

[B]

Yeah, well, my mom was like, why you relate to a liar?

[A]

And then I was like, so funny.

[B]

And I was like, no, I just feel bad for him. Like, he's so lonely.

[A]

Yeah, well, like, this is not only. I think there's such a kind of a litmus test of your relationship to forgiveness and loneliness and.

[B]

What's litmus test?

[A]

Oh, God.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

Calibration of a litmus test refers to a question or issue who. Whose answer or Stance on it will determine a person or group's true beliefs or.

[B]

I don't.

[A]

Suitability.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I don't know. He just told you the exact specific definition. You're like, I don't know. Move on with a different thing. It's a good barometer or, like, measure of your kind of relationship to forgiveness. Like, by the way, we're just sort of learning this and seen responses to the film and loneliness and things like that. So much of what the film deals with, you know, So I love that you have that reaction to Dennis and again, that you even had sort of the willingness to admit that you had that reaction. Dennis. Because I don't think that a lot of people would share that.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Or even if they did, they would kind of feel like, you know, weird about it.

[B]

You know, he gets attached easy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I don't want to because I kind of went into the movie blind. So.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The first 20 minutes. I still want the second 20 minutes. I was so taken aback.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I don't necessarily want to tell people what happens.

[A]

No. That's what we're fighting in the marketing.

[B]

Right. So, like. Like, I was.

[A]

Why Nobody wanted to buy the movie.

[B]

Okay. No, it's getting great reviews, it seems.

[A]

Yes. No, I mean, we have had it. Listen, it's been a journey with this film. We're super proud of it, obviously, and. But going back to the relating to Dennis thing, it's so nice that you had empathy for that person. Because going back to the difficulty of getting this movie made, a large part of it was because people sort of deemed that character to completely irredeemable. And we're scared of that, so.

[B]

Well, yes.

[A]

Yeah. But that's you.

[B]

Yeah. Do you think they. Well, I don't want to spoil it. I know you think they became friends at the end.

[A]

I have a. Like, I have a really positive. Yes. I would say, like, encouraged, hopeful take at the end. It is obviously kind of a story of these two guys who, you know, have this connection in, like, a chapter of their life that brought them together for, like, a specific reason. And it was like a really sort of, like, effortless and comforting kind of relationship that served them at the time in a way that, like, at some point, hat would have an expiration date. But that doesn't mean that they're not going to have, like, a, you know, relationship. Re sort of.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Textured friendship going forward is what I would think.

[B]

Right. It was hard to watch. There was moments where I had to pause it, like, in the little art museum. Pause. I was so stressed out. Double date dinner. Pause. I was like. I was so stressed. I kept texting Louise. Oh, I'm so stressed.

[A]

Wait, what stressed you out about the double date dinner?

[B]

Because what? The.

[A]

The.

[B]

The guy from Abbott Elementary.

[A]

Yeah, Yeah.

[B]

I was like, oh. Pause. I was like. I gotta pause. So did you go to any food trucks in Portland?

[A]

Yeah. What was their sandwich?

[B]

You get that sandwich food truck?

[A]

No, I never did. It's. It's so. The food, I mean, obsessed with the food in Portland.

[B]

It's amazing.

[A]

I love Portland overall. Yeah. Food is a huge part of that reason. But there's so many other elements like that go into that as well. Like just. I'm. I'm a huge fan of Portland as a city. My favorite spots, food wise, like, were. I don't even know that there. Did you ever go to Realm in Tavern? Do you know this place? Realm In? Do you know what it is? It's just like a really dive bar place with like, that serves fried chicken. They have one fryer, so if you order fried chicken, it takes like over.

[B]

An hour to you, you know, that's trad.

[A]

But it's incredible.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And it's a really, really good dive bar and really hokey. Funny. I mean, just amazing, amazing place. Pizza. Baby Doll. Did you love Baby Doll pizza?

[B]

I hate pizza.

[A]

Sorry, I didn't know that. Clearly. It just killed me.

[B]

No, I hate it.

[A]

I felt that. Yeah.

[B]

I think it's.

[A]

I believe you.

[B]

I know.

[A]

And have you always hated pizza?

[B]

I think one time, like, my friend ordered Domino's and I was like, why would you order Domino's? Because I'm from New York and so.

[A]

Fair and like, I agree with you. I don't hate pizza, but. Yeah, you love Domino's.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Get the fuck out of here. It's. I mean, it's to also not, you know, I don't know, talk about Domino's lovers out there or something. It's just like. Oh, you love it, don't you? The eyes. The eyes.

[B]

Well, she's. She's from it. She's from Alabama, so I'm from Atlanta.

[A]

Oh, that makes so much sense though. But also here. Are you willing to say that Domino's. Sorry, should we turn the cameras?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, she's.

[A]

God, it's a different thing. You know what I mean? It's. It's. Do you. Do you even put it in the same category as pizza? Is that a weird question, girl? No. You can get better pizza delivered than that.

[B]

Well, I hate pizza.

[A]

Overall, we know. Yeah.

[B]

I like. There's one type of pizza I like.

[A]

Julio's frozen pizza.

[B]

Thin crust.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Truffle pizza. Okay. It's the only thing I can do. I know. It's the only thing I can do. The other stuff, I'm like.

[A]

Your taste. I love your taste.

[B]

Really? Well, like.

[A]

Yeah. I love the range of you. Like. Like Jersey Shore, board rock, boardwalk, blacking out with Snooki and then also being, like, uppity about pizza. I'm obsessed with.

[B]

I guess I do have range. Wow. You should come here all the time. I'm having a great time.

[A]

Oh, good.

[B]

Are you.

[A]

I'm really enjoying myself.

[B]

Okay. I'm really enjoying myself.

[A]

You would know if I wasn't really. Oh, yeah.

[B]

You can't hide it.

[A]

Not really. No.

[B]

No, you're just like, I'm.

[A]

No, it's part of the problem I have. Doing what I do well, not the. Yeah.

[B]

Like, you're this stuff, like, press.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Understood.

[A]

You know what I mean?

[B]

I know what you mean.

[A]

It doesn't serve me well. I think being fake would actually serve me so much more. It really would.

[B]

It's funny because your job is to technically be fake.

[A]

See, I. Well, that's not how I think of that at all. I mean, that's. Okay. Hey, it's okay. Well, no, because, like, it brings up an interesting conversation. I think there's. There's definitely different. There's so many different elements that go into it. You know, I think, like, if by being fake, you mean obviously inhabiting a Persona that, like, isn't. Doesn't align with yours necessarily. Right. I think I just had received it as being, like. Well, I sort of only can. The only way I could even do it is by, like, going off of things that I know are real, things that feel authentic, or else it feels fake, and then. And then it wouldn't be good.

[B]

Oh, no, I just meant, like, acting.

[A]

Well, that's what I'm talking about.

[B]

My life.

[A]

What did you think I was talking.

[B]

I don't know. I don't know.

[A]

I was talking about, I guess, like, how I approach what I do. Where. How the hell did we get here? What were we talking about?

[B]

Pizza.

[A]

Isn't this beautiful?

[B]

It is beautiful pizza.

[A]

To this Portland food, right?

[B]

Have you.

[A]

Food trucks?

[B]

Have you asked me about food trucks? Yeah. Bamboo sushi.

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay. Have you been to the Russian place? No. Okay.

[A]

Was this all. Where did you stay?

[B]

I stayed at this place called which Quadrant. It was like the. It was like a hotel and they had thermal springs okay. Cascada. Cascada. I stayed at the Cascada.

[A]

It's called Cascada. Cascada might be Cascada.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I would say cascaded too.

[B]

Where'd you stay? You stayed in a house or a hotel?

[A]

I stayed in the very tiny little back house of a woman's property in south. I was southeast.

[B]

I have no idea where I was. So what were you near?

[A]

So, like, Hawthorne, like, which was Baby Doll Pizza, the sandwich spot that I loved was. Oh, my God, I'm blanking right now. Getting lost in your eyes.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I'm blanking on the sandwich spot because, my God, those baby blues, really.

[B]

They'Re hazel.

[A]

So it's right there.

[B]

It's gonna, you know, it'll.

[A]

But clearly we were in different areas.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Portland.

[B]

I'm so. But you visited the set I was on with two days.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Did you guys have, like a similar run set?

[A]

I wasn't there very long. I really don't like being on sets when I'm not working. Why?

[B]

Because you just want to work?

[A]

No, no. This is interesting to unpack because I don't really know what it is. I was actually thinking about it a lot after I left that set, by the way, really quick. Did you enjoy. Was that your first time in a movie? How did you enjoy it?

[B]

Best experience in my life.

[A]

Amazing.

[B]

Like, literally best experience.

[A]

Wait, so how did you come to this? Because I. Even when I saw this, I was like, oh, I didn't know he acted well. You didn't know either.

[B]

Basically, I. So I got. Do you know Graham, the director?

[A]

I don't, but I met him.

[B]

Okay. I got dinner with him, Lewis and Kaya, and Graham was there, and I was crashing out over the sky.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I was just like, like, really just having to full on crash out for an hour. And then Graham was like, do you want to be in this movie? And I was like, yeah, I want to be in this movie.

[A]

See, that's incredible because I, I. You do have that kind of, like, energy that is like the type of infectious you are just you. And that is enough. No, that is like, kind of. I can see of. I would cast you and, like, I'd be like.

[B]

You would you really?

[A]

You? Yeah, like, I would just be like.

[B]

Well, you let me know.

[A]

But I get it. I get it. I like. And I. And I'm commenting from somebody who I would never, like, come to a dinner with somebody and have them be like, you should be in a movie.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, I would say so. Well, it's Never happened. So.

[B]

Okay, well, maybe one day.

[A]

And I'm even an actor.

[B]

Right? Right.

[A]

I go around with my card, and they're like, yeah, we don't have space for you in this one, but thanks. I'm like, oh, you keep that.

[B]

Right. Well, I do want to act. Like, I've taken acting classes. I was in hacks for a little.

[A]

I did see that because I looked up your. I did some research, too.

[B]

You did? Yeah. Sometimes people come and they, like, don't know about anything.

[A]

No, I did a little research, a little homework. I didn't watch the Snooki episode, which I know that's how the. I missed that.

[B]

It's great. We Meatball chugs. She gave me her messy mama wine. What type of music do you listen to?

[A]

Oh, interesting.

[B]

Can I guess?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

80S rock.

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I mean, like. Well, I don't. 80s rock, I guess. What? I like Talking Heads. Sure.

[B]

Springsteen.

[A]

No, I'm not a huge Springsteen.

[B]

Jersey.

[A]

I know, I know. I. I listen. I'm. I'm not. I'm from nowhere.

[B]

You're from North Jersey.

[A]

Here's the thing. That's what I. That is what I claim, by the way. But I claim most that. But then people don't allow. When you're from, like. Because I moved as a kid.

[B]

Hermosa.

[A]

You did this?

[B]

I did this. Yeah.

[A]

It's like, if you tell. I don't know. People have such opinions about where you're from. So I've just given up on trying to say, like. I'll say, you know, I'm. I'll say I'm from the east coast. Or I'll say it from New York area. I'll say I'm from Jersey and. Or I'll say I'm from New York. And people would be like, where? I'm like, well, like, North Jersey. And they'll be like, that's not New York. And then you say you're from New York. No, no, no. I stand from New Jersey.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm just giving examples.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

People's weird opinions.

[B]

Got it. You give east coast to me deeply.

[A]

Yeah, well, I've all. I mean, listen, I don't. I also have, like, such a little. I went to, like, a total Cali Stoner high school. So, I mean, listen, I didn't. I didn't see myself where I went to high school. It was a total culture shock and a crazy situation. And then, interestingly enough, I like, look at pictures of myself when I was, like, graduating and endless hear myself in videos and I'M like, that is so funny. I was just adapting and surviving, you know? It's so interesting.

[B]

Did you. Is this home base for you still or is like the East Coast?

[A]

I live in New York.

[B]

I can't tell if I'm jealous or not.

[A]

I know. I saw you go through that.

[B]

Like, I'm about to go to New York. What? I'm. I leave tomorrow night.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You travel a lot?

[B]

Sometimes. Are you gonna be in New York?

[A]

I leave. I go back on Friday.

[B]

Do you want to hang out? Sure.

[A]

Where? Where? Where? When Are you there till the 14th? Yeah, I'll be. I'll be. I'll be around.

[B]

We don't have to hang out.

[A]

You want to.

[B]

What? What were you going to say?

[A]

Where are you staying? First of all, Tribeca.

[B]

That's where I live. I mean, it's written in the stars.

[A]

That is Upper Echelon.

[B]

It's my favorite hotel in the world.

[A]

I agree. I mean, you know what's funny is even I. I got put up there one time for press, and that's how I found the neighborhood.

[B]

Do you want to hang out? Yes or no?

[A]

Yeah, I'll be there. Let's do something.

[B]

Thank you, seatgeek, for sponsoring tonight's episode. You guys might notice my shirt if you haven't. It says dance or die and it is from the Lady Gaga concert, which I went to while I was in New York. If you do not see the Mayhem Ball while she is touring it, you are going to regret it. And if you do end up seeing it, make sure you get your tickets on SeatGeek and use code therapist10 for 10% off your purchase. You can click the link in the description below to download the app and have the code automatically applied. But the reason I think you should get these tickets on SeatGeek is because it is the best place to buy tickets. It shows you where the seat is and it also rates it on a scale from 1 to 10. 1 being not the best, 10 being the best. So you know what type of deal you are getting. There are also so many live shows you can see. I also, while I was in New York, I saw Tate's Miss Possessive World Tour, which was just unbelievable. Heim just started there. I quit tour. Renee Rapp is about to go on her Bite Me tour. There are so many insane shows right now that you just have to see. I think live music is like the most. I always say this. It is the most community we will ever feel. I. We really miss it during COVID We have it back we shouldn't take it for granted. And SeatGeek makes it so easy not to. If you download the the app, you can literally scroll, put in your area. It shows you popular events in your area. Sporting, comedy, music, concerts, Broadway plays, literally anything. It has it. Once again, use code therapist10 for 10% off. And, yeah, you have to see the Mayhem Ball or the Miss Possessive World Tour. I'm actually going to the Miss Possessive World Tour again in LA because it was that good. She is coming to a city near you, and you have to see it. Thank you, seatgeek, for sponsoring tonight's episode. Did I read this right? Did you watch every episode of Friends 11 times.

[A]

You. I don't think you read it wrong, but it was written wrong.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You haven't watched Friends 11 times. I don't know where that number came from. Now, I did watch Friends when I was a kid.

[B]

You like comfort shows?

[A]

Yeah, I haven't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Friends. Yeah. Friends is definitely, like, a nostalgic show for me. Like, reminds me of my mother. Like, it reminds me of my childhood. It certainly is. Like, I remember. I mean, even, like, my mom would always tell me things about, like, acting while watching Friends, so there's, like, certain, like, North Star things that I kind of look to, and I'm like, oh, that's cute. Like, that, like, like, clearly influenced me. Like, I.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I feel like I was a copycat of Matthew Perry from the first, like, three years of my career.

[B]

That's how I feel about Snooki on the Jersey Shore.

[A]

Let's talk about that.

[B]

Yeah. So, like, I feel like, you know, like, I. I wanted to be her.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was obsessed with her.

[A]

But did you feel like you were emulating her energy without even realizing it?

[B]

Well, I just thought she was so unapologetically herself, and at first, people in the house did not. With her, you guys. Yeah, they. With her. She. They were, like, all talking about her, and then she just didn't change. She stay. She stayed. Snooki.

[A]

No, I became the star of the show. Yeah. This. So this brings me to. This is a good. I love talking about this because I feel like people have such a. Like, I'm so down. And maybe it's because I, like, grew up on the east coast, and so, like, I'm more familiar with this type of energy. But directness, to me is kindness in a way that I don't think people receive that the same way. Do you know what I'm saying?

[B]

Do you think it's, like, a respect thing?

[A]

I think that, like, I much prefer a person who might be perceived as, like, aggressive or, like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Or, I don't know. I don't know. I, But I just think I way rather have somebody not conceal their feelings and tell you straight to the, Straight to your face, like, if you've pissed them off or whatever, without any type of. Like, that to me, is so much easier and comforting in a relationship where, you know, where you stand in a way that I feel like most people, for whatever reason, are so allergic to that type of thing. Do you know what I'm saying?

[B]

No, I know what you're saying. And I was about to say I preferred the opposite, but then I actually was really thinking about it, and I think I agree with what you're saying. I would much rather if someone's angry at me to tell me why they're angry at me instead of me playing a guessing game.

[A]

Yeah. And obviously we can, you know. Yeah, there's certain levels of, like, you know, line crossing and whatever and aggressive tendencies, but. And tempers and things like that. But yeah, I, I, I just feel like so many people, like, live dishonestly in a weird way that we're, like, afraid to, I don't know, tell someone that they've, like, hurt our feelings or, like, say, like, hey, I'm sorry that, like, I did that. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like that's even.

[B]

I'm a big apologizer.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

I'm a big apologizer. I, to the point where people say that it almost means nothing anymore, but I am a big apologizer.

[A]

That's interesting.

[B]

You over, like, well, like my parents used to say, like, it means nothing. And I'd say, oh, okay.

[A]

Oh, my God, they're so. They sound funny.

[B]

Yeah. Just think about who could have made me.

[A]

I am.

[B]

Yeah. Think about that.

[A]

No, I, I love that. I feel like, I try. I feel like that's such a. That's so somebody that I trust. Do you trust me as, like, implicitly as one can.

[B]

Right. We mean, we've barely known each other.

[A]

Meeting for, you know, an hour. Yeah. Oh, see? Millennial. I did a look at my wrist. Do you watch Joke?

[B]

Do you? I love Millennials. Do you ever watch Girls?

[A]

I never watched Girls. You love Lena Dunham more than anything. I love that.

[B]

My North Star. That's my North Star.

[A]

This for me. I love this. Only because I, I'm, I, I just.

[B]

Am unfamiliar, so I just think similar to, like, I just love people that are so. Themselves. Yeah, she did girls. She was so Herself.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

She just. I don't know. I. That show changed my life.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Everything I've seen of it, I've always felt like it looks really unique and like I would like it.

[B]

I think you would like it. But I can't tell. I can't tell if like, when are. You're more of a movie guy. You're saying you're like prefer movies to television, but.

[A]

Yeah, but it's not as pretentious as that sounds.

[B]

No, it doesn't. I, it doesn't.

[A]

But like, like, I, I, I, I'll. If you look at my like, you know, recently watched list, I think it would be.

[B]

What's your recently watched?

[A]

I, God. What's the most recent thing I watched? How comfortable are you sitting here while I think of this?

[B]

I'm so comfortable. I just want to make sure you're having fun.

[A]

I know. What, yeah. What were you.

[B]

I was just thinking. Sorry. Sometimes I rock back and forth.

[A]

Wouldn't it be funny after I spoke about like being honest and then like I just wasn't having fun at all, but I was faking it this whole time.

[B]

I think I would cry and question my worth.

[A]

See, because it's confusing and scary and how can you trust a space like that when all of a sudden it's like, wait, none of that was real? No, I, you would know.

[B]

I'm telling you, I think I would know too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I'm not just saying that, but I think I would. Would, I would know.

[A]

Yeah, you would know.

[B]

Like I.

[A]

I have no skill to hide it. And, and that's beautiful.

[B]

Well, at least for me.

[A]

No, no, I, I agree. I'd rather be that way.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But also, I feel like I, I also feel like I, I have no skill to hide it. But then I feel like maybe that. I don't know. I don't know.

[B]

So what movies do you watch recently?

[A]

Oh, yeah, I watched Showgirls a couple weeks ago. That was the last one I watched because I love Showgirls.

[B]

I've never seen it.

[A]

You must.

[B]

No, that's the last Showgirl.

[A]

No. Oh, yeah. That was the last Showgirl. No, Showgirls is a masterpiece.

[B]

Oh, I'll give it a watch.

[A]

Paul Verhoeven, director. You read Basic Instinct?

[B]

Do you read ever?

[A]

I re. I read in ways that are odd. Like the most recent thing I read, actually, I didn't read this. I listened to. It was Demi Moore's audiobook. Her memoir.

[B]

She's a memoir? Yeah. She talk about the substance.

[A]

She Doesn't.

[B]

Great.

[A]

Yeah. So, like, I. Or I have, you know, then my. I have such, like. I'm such a, like, self help book guy.

[B]

Really Let them.

[A]

Right? Like, let them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I know of that, but I haven't dove into that. That one hasn't consumed my life. I'm also somebody who. Yeah, my. My output with reading, I think, is very sort of reflective of my adhd.

[B]

I have ADHD too.

[A]

I was gonna ask you that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Six minutes ago. I'm not even kidding.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. I can't remember what it was that we did. And I was. I was gonna be like, jubi, was.

[B]

It the Adderall comment when you walked?

[A]

Oh, no, I totally forgot about that.

[B]

Oh, yeah, I was.

[A]

Yeah, but you were, like, diagnosed as a child. Sorry I said that with, like, such a.

[B]

No, I don't think I was. I think. I don't even think I needed a diagnosis. I think they were just like, you have it.

[A]

They're like, you got something.

[B]

Yeah. Like, you have that.

[A]

Right. But that's. Are you grateful for that?

[B]

My adhd? Not.

[A]

No, no. For having it be something that was like, that you knew about at a. From a young age?

[B]

Well, no, because I wasn't prescribed anything copy, so I wasn't helped.

[A]

Interesting, interesting. But you could. But. But in terms of your own sort of like, like mental. Learning about it and learning about yourself and how you click. And did you find, like, those things to be helpful?

[B]

No, because I knew I had OCD too, and they were. And I knew I actually needed to get on meds for that. I couldn't because my dad was super against meds.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And so that was. I was frustrated.

[A]

How severe is your ocd?

[B]

Really bad. Really, really, really bad.

[A]

What is like, an example? If you're comfortable.

[B]

Oh, my God, I am so comfortable. I used to, like, I used to. When I was, like. When I would add a song to a playlist, I would have to add it four times. So when I would go. I know it sounds stupid, but when I would go through New Music Friday, like, I would have to, like. It would take me forever to, like, find the music I like. When I would watch, like, Netflix, sometimes I'd have to watch a scene four times or whatever number I decided that day. I just, like, think about how anything and everything could be difficult. Everything was difficult.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

I used to cluck.

[A]

What's up? I used to cluck like a chicken.

[B]

Yeah. So I used to count to. To the number, like, two, and, like, I would have to, like, really, like, emphasize the two. Like, I'd have to cluck my tongue and so everyone would be like, stop clucking.

[A]

Was it just something that. That you were like, just came to me one day and you just felt like, the, like, physical need to clear it?

[B]

Yeah, it was like, I need to. Everyone to know. I just. I counted.

[A]

I get it.

[B]

What are you therapist about today?

[A]

Wait, what did you weave in the theme of the show again? Randomly and then. And I was thrown for a second.

[B]

I'm sorry.

[A]

Don't be sorry.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

They held up like cue cards to you. Behind you. They were like, back on track.

[B]

Yeah, that's.

[A]

You run a business, you got a brand.

[B]

You feel very happy. Go lucky. I feel like they're. They're. I mean, are there things you're angry about today?

[A]

It's really funny that you say that.

[B]

Why? Are you, like, an angry guy?

[A]

No, no, no, no, I. No, I'm not. I think I have, like, a life sort of that has. I've. I think I've had a lot of times in my life of. Of being surrounded by a lot of anger. So I've had a lot of anger in my life. And I think as an adult, too, I kind of am really aware of my relationship to that type of thing and having, like, been brought up in those types of spaces, I guess, or at least experiencing those types of things and so. But no, actually I'm, like, happy to report that into my, like, adulthood. It was actually, like, a really relieving thing for me to realize that. No, I'm not an angry person. I just think that I grew up with a lot of angry people, so it was a very early, like, language that I learned.

[B]

So you want to, like, counter that by being, like, maybe more positive?

[A]

No, it's not even that. I. I still. I just don't. I. It's not my knee jerk thing to be angry. No.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But, like, yeah, I can get upset for sure. I'm a very sensitive person.

[B]

Are you really?

[A]

Yeah. Did you not.

[B]

I can't get that from interesting. I feel like you have pretty thick skin.

[A]

That's interesting.

[B]

But I also just met you. I mean, I'm very sensitive.

[A]

Yeah, well, sensitive. Yeah. I guess sensitive can have so many meanings as well. Like. Really? Yeah. What do you think?

[B]

I just, like, I don't know.

[A]

Like, there's so many facets of sensitivity, like in terms of, you know, in your relationships and kind of.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Other people's feelings.

[B]

Where are you sensitive and your relationships?

[A]

I'm really sensitive. To other people's feelings.

[B]

Oh, so you're like an empath.

[A]

No, wouldn't say that. Oh, definitely wouldn't say that. Because I don't know, I feel like. Also, I feel like an empath is like, when someone cries, I cry, and I'm like, I don't. That doesn't happen for me.

[B]

I never cry.

[A]

So. Yeah, I'm not. I'm a pretty rare crier, too.

[B]

Yeah. I don't cry ever, actually.

[A]

It's so. That's interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you want to talk about that?

[B]

Well, the last time I bald.

[A]

Yeah, I.

[B]

Do you want to guess? I talk about this every episode.

[A]

Do I want to get. Yeah, I heard a. You got a sigh from your manager. Because it's every episode.

[B]

Do you want to guess how many. When the last time I really bald crying was.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Take a gander. That's Patrick.

[A]

Oh, I'm Patrick.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's my father's name.

[B]

Oh, wow, you are Irish.

[A]

Oh, his name is Patrick Broderick o'. Brien.

[B]

Yeah, that's Ireland.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So guessing on the last time you bawled, were you like, did it have to do with.

[B]

I was 19, and it was in college. Like, it was in college.

[A]

That was it.

[B]

I was 19. It was 2019.

[A]

And what was it because of?

[B]

I was super up.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I saw this guy that I liked hang out with someone else, and I started crying.

[A]

There you go.

[B]

Outside of Macaroni Republic.

[A]

That's understanding.

[B]

I just looked at the camera because they all know macaroni. Have you been to Macaroni Republic?

[A]

No, I've never even heard of it, actually.

[B]

Okay, so they have a bunch of different types of macaroni.

[A]

I. That would have been my guess for Macaroni Republic.

[B]

You have a favorite restaurant in the world.

[A]

In the world in New York. You got another side?

[B]

Are you over? No, I didn't mean to do that that time, I swear.

[A]

I know. That's why it's more compelling, because this one is. Felt a little over it, didn't it?

[B]

Do you want to get into the. Tell me what's wrongs.

[A]

Is this another. Oh, you're giving. You're like, move it along.

[B]

What is up? Like, do you not want.

[A]

Are you kind of like the brand? Back on. Back on brand.

[B]

What is the vibe? What was.

[A]

I don't know. She goes, I don't know, you guys. Oh, I don't know. Comma.

[B]

You guys. Do you type really fast?

[A]

I can type past. Why?

[B]

Yeah, because I was talking with somebody about this the other day. On set in Portland, and we were talking about how in high school. In school, in elementary school, when we used to do the typing test.

[A]

Yeah. That's all I was gonna. I was. I would have been curious to know your relationship to typing.

[B]

You think I type a lot?

[A]

No, because I think. Because you're like a. Because you're a decade younger than me. I didn't know, kind of what if the. Like, I. We were, like, learning typing. Like, I remember learning typing when I was, like, 10, you know, and. But I guess it would make sense that you would be, if anything, more experienced from a younger age. So I did the opposite there.

[B]

My roommate has a drinking problem. The problem is that they're not.

[A]

What's going on?

[B]

Tell me what's wrong.

[A]

Okay, go.

[B]

So the. Put.

[A]

Oh, no, no, no. Go ahead.

[B]

So sorry. How silly of me. Yeah. What? Are you okay?

[A]

Yeah. I mean, just. I'm 34.

[B]

Right. Do you ever go to a chiropractor?

[A]

No.

[B]

You go to therapy?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I don't go to a chiropractor, but just recently I had, like, a neck issue that I needed, like, in the last year. Did you?

[B]

Really bad.

[A]

It's really bad. And. But, like, I. You know what? Cleared it up immediately. I went. I was going to seeing a chiropractor for months about it, and. And nothing happened. And, you know, it cleared it up immediately. Physical therapy.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know if I have the patience.

[A]

Sorry. That I clearly held a little angst there against the chiropractic experience.

[B]

You do acupuncture ever?

[A]

No, but I have done it before.

[B]

Cupping.

[A]

Not a big cupper. I think it looks funny. I think I might be slightly phobic about the way cupping looks on skin.

[B]

Are you scared of circles?

[A]

I don't think so.

[B]

What is it? Typerophobia.

[A]

Trypophobia.

[B]

How do you know that?

[A]

Ryan has it.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Huh. Who's Ryan?

[B]

My best friend. Best friend.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

So they tell me what's wrong. The pussy's right in, and they tell us what's wrong, and we just give them advice.

[A]

Yeah. Okay.

[B]

My roommate has a drinking problem. The problem is that they're not an angry or sad or even an annoying drunk. Even worse is that they're actually kind of fun and I love going out with them. Sounds like me. However, they're waking up at, like, 1pm every day. We're both in our early 20s. Do I do anything? I did that in college. Not to normalize it, but I did that in college.

[A]

Yeah, I think the. Both. The both in our early 20s things is kind of the answer there.

[B]

I think if it progresses past that.

[A]

Yeah, it's. It's. They're living their life. That's. It's. They've got time to figure that out. That's my take.

[B]

You gorgeous take. How long have you been in therapy for?

[A]

Since I was 25.

[B]

Like me.

[A]

Correct.

[B]

But I missed therapy. I missed it today.

[A]

I guess technically it was 24. You missed it for this?

[B]

I was so excited to cancel. I love canceling. I was like, oh, yes, cancel, because.

[A]

You feel like it means you're soaring.

[B]

It's just like whenever I'm in therapy. Last time I took therapy, I was shopping for clothes. So I was on the phone, like, shopping.

[A]

You just do it over voice call in a store. You need to. How does the therapist feel about this?

[B]

Like, what are you buying?

[A]

This doesn't sound like therapy.

[B]

It's not. And I'm like, well, I'm getting my friend a birthday present. And I was like, do you guys have this in red? They did. And then I was like, one second. Because I had to Apple pay and I Apple page. And then sometimes I take it while I go grocery shopping.

[A]

I.

[B]

And then sometimes I run into people on the street. I'm like, oh, my God, I haven't seen them in forever.

[A]

I love. I want to point out something really quick before we get too far past it. I love that you say that you take therapy.

[B]

Yeah. Like a class. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I don't do well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because at the very end, she'll be like, so your parents. I'll be like, gotta go. I'll see you next week.

[A]

Right? Yeah. That's, like, where it should be starting, right? Yeah.

[B]

She used to help me get in fights with my friends over tax. She'd help me, like, craft out messages.

[A]

It doesn't sound like they're challenging you.

[B]

No, she's fabulous. She went to Palm Springs the other weekend. I love her.

[A]

Yeah. This sounds like your buddy.

[B]

Yeah, she's my friend.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. Okay.

[B]

Have you had the same therapist since you were 25?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You are so healthy, mindset oriented.

[A]

Really? I think that's hilarious.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

No, I mean, I appreciate it, but I think it's normal to not feel that yourself. All right, go ahead. What do we got?

[B]

My boyfriend and I got back together based on all these promises that he would move out with me and be more supportive of me and my job. Etc. We were together for seven years. High school sweethearts. We've been back together for Four months. And I think we're getting back into old habits. Fighting all the time, same old small shit. And now he just told me he isn't ready to move in with me. Could have told you that.

[A]

Yep, that's pretty cut and dry. My immediate, like, questions would be, how long were you not together for? I would assume a few months is.

[B]

What I would assume.

[A]

It wasn't long. And that even in those few months, it doesn't sound like they were ever actually. They broke up.

[B]

But if you have to get back together based on promises, and those promises, those things aren't coming naturally to a relationship, why do that?

[A]

Well, yeah, no, they, they so clearly.

[B]

Just know nothing else.

[A]

Yeah. Just came back together fearing, you know, the unknown and, and the separation and, you know, that's totally understandable succumbing to that. But it sounds like it would be good for them to break up.

[B]

Do you believe people change?

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. Of course. No, if anything, I mean, I was just, just talking about. Not only do I believe that they change, I mean, but you, but you have to. It's not, it's not free.

[B]

What do you mean it's not free?

[A]

You got to work on it. So, like. Yeah, I actually, I believe in change. I believe in, like, I'm, I'm always kind of somebody who's more sort of like mini traumatized when people are kind of commenting on your changing as if it's like a negative thing, which is, I think, more common than the other way.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

People are so afraid to see, like, the people that they know evolve into something else. And, and it's usually. There's usually like a negativity subscribed to it.

[B]

Has that ever happened with you where you've been changing?

[A]

I'm clearly talking about. Yeah, I mean, I, Yeah, sure. I just think like changing and evolving, I really believe in. And I think that we, you know, I would, I would support anyone that I loved for change and I certainly wouldn't like, hold them hostage to who they always were.

[B]

You know, I think that's tough in the age of the Internet because you're who you are or who you were is now documented.

[A]

Oh, God. Oh, forget that.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely crazy. Yeah.

[B]

I want to become an actor, but have, like, no train skills or ideas on how to break into the industry. I live in OC and I'm wondering if it's worth it to make the move to la. Thanks.

[A]

Do we have an age there?

[B]

Nope.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Nothing.

[A]

Yeah, give it a shot. Go.

[B]

Well, that doesn't sound very enthusiastic.

[A]

Well, I. Because I'm in this goddamn business. Like, I would say give it a shot flippantly, like I did, because I guess, like, it. This. It's a crap shoot anyway. Even if you were, you know, currently in school, unless you were somebody who, like, had connections and you were going to, like, get representation out. Out of school, you. And even then, like, I don't know, you know, you're. You're sort of not guaranteed, kind of. I think opportunity is a very interesting thing in this business. But the things that you can control at least are like, if you want to be doing that, then, like, do it. Go to la. Find people who also want to be doing it. Make little things together. Make a short. Write a short. You know, write something for you to start to do.

[B]

Any of that before Teen Wolf?

[A]

Yeah. Remember the.

[B]

Well, the YouTube movie, Cat?

[A]

We talked about it.

[B]

Yeah, but like, I mean, when you got out here, it was like a.

[A]

Big part of the conversation.

[B]

No, I know, but I'm just saying, like.

[A]

Well, no, I was already. No, no, I. You start balling. It's now.

[B]

I was actually gonna ask. 19 fake cried so wonderfully in Twinless.

[A]

That wasn't fake.

[B]

Okay. So how do you do that?

[A]

I didn't.

[B]

You just felt it?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was awesome.

[A]

I've definitely fake cried on camera before. That was.

[B]

Didn't work.

[A]

No, the one that you're referring to is certainly not fake.

[B]

Oh, got it.

[A]

And to answer your question, how I. I don't. I felt so connected to my guy at the. I mean, like, I just like it. I don't know. It's. It's. It's. I was. I've never been, like, prouder of anything that I've gotten to do as an actor. And I've been doing this for 15 years.

[B]

It really is so excellent. I texted everyone in my life about it after I watched it.

[A]

Thanks.

[B]

I'm serious. It's amazing. Well, it's amazing.

[A]

Thanks. I mean, it. I. It's an. It was an amazing. I had the support that I needed. You know what I mean? I just think that is also such a thing that I feel like gets lost in the fold sometimes with acting. Like, you know, your performance is only as good as the hands that you're in. And James, who wrote, directed, and stars with me in the movie, he. Yeah, just, you know, is a really special filmmaker and just person and artist, and so it was. It's just. I'm so grateful to have had as fragile of a performance as that, as vulnerable of a thing as that is to execute you, you, obviously. It's nice to have it be in hands that you really trust as well.

[B]

How'd you and James meet? Like, through this movie.

[A]

Through this? Yeah.

[B]

Got it.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. Read the script in 2020 for the first time, and we zoomed in 2020, and I attached to the movie and then.

[B]

Oh, movies take a while to get made, huh?

[A]

Well, this one in particular, we. It got passed on by everyone in town.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, that's always a telltale sign of a really big success.

[A]

That's what they say.

[B]

I think it is. And that everyone's gonna be like, I can't believe we passed.

[A]

Yeah. If they even remember. Yeah. But I mean, it's. No, it's like. It's like, you know, goes back to what we were talking about. You. Do you want to get back to the cards?

[B]

No, no, I was. I was. I was looking. I was. I was like, I wonder what the next time. I get. Sometimes I get angry, anxious.

[A]

Wait, didn't we. Did we even finish this one? No, we hadn't. I went on a fucking tangent.

[B]

No, I think we, like, you know, it doesn't sound like you're gonna move to la.

[A]

I wouldn't encourage anyone to pursue acting, which is like, I think a really. Which isn't fair of me to say.

[B]

You are an actor.

[A]

Yeah, but I didn't pursue acting. I got really, really lucky and happened to just be creating things for fun that happened to get seen by someone who happened to send that to someone else. And they happen to call me in and that is my manager to my current manager, still today.

[B]

Oh, you're loyal. Loyalty is important. Oh, she's my ride or die. Yeah. Yeah. That's how I feel about Louise.

[A]

I get that from you, really. Just the whole energy. Yeah.

[B]

So my question was, you guys got.

[A]

A lot longer to go, though. Yeah. What was the question?

[B]

I went on a hike with my boyfriend and we came across a mountain lion. I was so scared.

[A]

This one's not real. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Sorry. That was mean.

[B]

And so was my boyfriend. But the cherry on top is that he just ran away, leaving me there. I ran after him and we got in a big fight and he said, I thought you would start running too. Obviously. I feel unprotected. What do I do?

[A]

Can I be honest?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I spaced out. I need.

[B]

Okay. It happens all the time here.

[A]

I needed you.

[B]

Hot. It's hot in here.

[A]

No, no, I'm okay.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I appreciate.

[B]

What do you sleep at night? Like, cold. Me too.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, you know what? After this, I'll tell you about my mattress. It cools down at night.

[A]

Oh, yeah. And it gives you your stats.

[B]

You. I told me I snored for 13 minutes last night, which isn't that long.

[A]

That's not that long.

[B]

I know.

[A]

I'm interested to know what was going on during those 30 minutes. You might have been deep in rain.

[B]

I think I was deep. Well, it tells me how. It tells me how deep. It tells me how deep in front I got. I went on a hike.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

With my boyfriend.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And we came across a mountain lion.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I was so fucking scared, and so was my boyfriend. But the cherry on top is that he just ran away, leaving me there. I ran after him, and we got in a big fight, and he said, I thought you would start running too. Obviously, I feel unprotected. What do I do?

[A]

That's probably one that you just got to let go.

[B]

You think break up?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, just let go of the. Yeah, I think so, too. I think he thought you were running after him.

[A]

Yeah. And it's like, you can't hold someone hostage over, like a. I don't know, an instant instinct in a moment of panic and make it about you.

[B]

Wait, I would do that. Make it.

[A]

Then maybe it's just young relationship. You know what I mean? I don't know. Which then is totally fair. And then that's not your. Dude, you got to go find someone who is going to protect you from a mountain lion at this age, because that's what you want right now.

[B]

I think we're a little more narcissistic in our behaviors.

[A]

I don't know. I. I don't. I don't think it's narcissistic. I think, like, you know, I'm get. I'm trying to get in her head space here.

[B]

Well, I would be like, what the. Like, grab my hand.

[A]

Like, right.

[B]

Have me run with you. Why are you running away?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Without being like, let's go.

[A]

Right, right, right. And that's that. I think it just tells. That's in. That's information about what you are seeking.

[B]

I think you're looking at value from a more mature standpoint where it's like, come on, let it go. He obviously thought you were running after him. Why wouldn't you run away from a mountain lion?

[A]

Yeah, but if this is where she's at, if that's what she's seeking in a person in this current stage in her life, Then that's what she needs, you know, and so, yes, assert to him that you needed that. And I can't wait to hear what his reaction.

[B]

He'll probably say, well, next time, run with me.

[A]

Right. That's what he said. I thought, I thought that you were running with me, which is incredible.

[B]

Hi, Jake and sexy amazing guest. That's you. Oh, and they really wrote that. Oh, yeah. I am a serial drunk caller. I don't drink too often, but when I do, everyone's getting. Everyone's getting wrong. The next day, I wake up to crazy. I wake up to screenshots and people texting me about crazy. I said, help me remedy this because I like going out, but I don't want to keep this up.

[A]

That's tough.

[B]

Well, how to help you?

[A]

Yeah, there should be the. I know that there's, like, apps at this point that lock your phone that do something like this. So get that. There's a bigger thing here, though, that.

[B]

You think drinking problem.

[A]

I think there's. There's different types of drinking problems that exist on this planet. And, and I think one of them is that, like, chemically you just don't align. So if you're losing that much control when you do drink, that would be something to pay attention to.

[B]

Do you like being in control because you're a Virgo?

[A]

Yeah. Like, with that said, I mean, you'd think that I was. That I've lived a very straight laced life and, like, I certainly have not, but I don't. I think I absolutely have a relationship to control based on many things outside of my foregoing nature.

[B]

Oh, I've never heard it said like that.

[A]

Yeah. But I.

[B]

Game of Thrones.

[A]

But I'm, like, aware of it. And so I. So it's, it's all part of my, you know, life's practice to kind of tackle the things that I know that I'm susceptible to, and that is certainly one of them. Did you. Did I lose you?

[B]

Did you go.

[A]

Did you go somewhere else or were you processing?

[B]

I was. I'm processing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're like saying, like, yeah, I like to control things, but I don't attribute it to only me being a Virgo.

[A]

Yeah. And, like, I don't think I'm a control freak. Like, I, I do a very collaborative thing, for example, you know, so I think there's areas in my life that I very much put into practice. Like, I, you know, I know that that doesn't serve me necessarily, so I try to not be in control. I'm not. I Don't know.

[B]

No, I gotta. If you don't know, you're probably like, not.

[A]

No, I do. I think there's certain things that I'm very sensitive to having no control over.

[B]

Like what?

[A]

I mean, like this stuff, for example, I think. I think a large part of, like, why I'm really. I've never been really good on the press side of my job is because, like, I hate kind of saying.

[B]

And then.

[A]

Yeah, I hate people just sort of deciding that they know who I am, I guess, you know, I think that's a huge one. My care. I'm very sensitive about my character.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

I. I don't know. What. Why do you think it is for you?

[A]

It's a great question. Do you have what I mean? Yeah. Do you. Are you on to something?

[B]

I attribute. For me, I attribute it to, like, my, Like, I'm very ocd, so one of my things is, like, I feel like a bad person all the time. So when someone online says, like, he seems like a bad person, it's like, almost validating what I think about myself in my head.

[A]

Oh, that's interesting.

[B]

So I'm like, oh, my God, if they think it. And I think it must be true and I must be a bad person.

[A]

Oh, that's interesting.

[B]

So that's why it affects me. But why does it affect you?

[A]

I mean, it can be a number of things. Like, I think that. I think, like, moving as a kid when I did. Did a lot of shit, you know, And I'm even still discovering the depths to which that affected things, you know.

[B]

You moved from Jersey to California?

[A]

Southern California, Yeah. I was 12.

[B]

It's a tough age to move.

[A]

Yeah, it was. I mean, it was. It was. It was awful. Also a horrible place to move. Like, I've heard of, like, lovely stories of right kids moving, and I find it fascinating because I just thought that no matter what, it was horrible because of my experience. But. Yeah. So I don't know, maybe sort of my, like, identity or like, def. Defensive nature of myself that I kind of, like, had to have as a kid, even down to, like, physically. You know what I mean? Like, I think I. I think I'm just very quick to defend myself in ways that now, I don't know, in the way that they manifest now, aren't necessarily necessary. As necessary as they once were when I was a child world.

[B]

And it makes sense that it goes back to your moving because, like, when you're 12, obviously you're being introduced to all these kids and, like, your character is probably being, like, attacked all the time. So. Does it, like, ever bring you back there? Yeah.

[A]

I don't know if it's as directly correlated, like, in that way, meaning jinx.

[B]

Almost, but I knew what you were gonna say.

[A]

But, like, there's gotta be, like, a sensitivity overall to just. Yeah. I don't know. I think. I think it's the. The. Yeah. Defending quick. I'm very quick to defend myself.

[B]

Me too. But I try not to do it online. I try to just do it and like, that shit.

[A]

You can't.

[B]

You can't win.

[A]

That's. But look. I mean, look, I can't. I don't. I don't even have a relationship to being online because.

[B]

Oh, my God. Yeah. You don't have an Instagram, do you?

[A]

Yeah, because I can't.

[B]

You can. How did you ever have an Instagram?

[A]

No, I never had an Instagram. I like, had, like, a Twitter that was like, the only social media that I ever had, but then I had. Yeah, I just, like. I canned that. I always had phases that I. I certainly have always been like this, like, it. I've always been. This always been me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

From the second I was, like, made to get Twitter when, like, Teen Wolf. Yeah. I remember they even made the account for me and someone was running it, like, the first couple posts. So I was like. I was like, well, no, I'll run it. Like, this is. You know. And then, I don't know, I went through varying degrees of my own relationship to that type of outlet or, you know, you always. You feel pressured to have some type of relationship to it, not just for your job, but, like, for society and, like, normalized standards. So I kind of always was trying to discover what the hell mine was. And it was a very sort of like, ebby, flowy, fleeting, different chapters of, like, me not engaging with it and then. And then engaging with it in, like, a way that felt authentic to me and then kind of going away from it again and then, you know, I don't know. It was. Until ultimately I was just like, yeah, this just isn't something that I've ever really wanted in my life. And so beyond that. Yeah, no, not at all.

[B]

Yeah. Unfortunately, it very much serves me how so. I'm so. I'm so addicted.

[A]

But you. I mean, you made a career off of it.

[B]

Well, that's the. That's the issue.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I have to be on it all the time.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But I do.

[A]

And you're. I would imagine, because I feel like anyone who makes their career off of this is, like, really? You're probably quite savvy with it.

[B]

I would like to think that I'm savvy with it.

[A]

Well, yeah, you are.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

You're savvy, right? You know what you're doing.

[B]

You ever seen the Sopranos?

[A]

You know what?

[B]

I haven't either.

[A]

I never have.

[B]

I haven't either.

[A]

I've. Oh, I've. There's been multiple points in my life where I've geared up to, like, do Sopranos, obviously. It's so funny, I hesitated because I've always called it Sopranos.

[B]

Oh, so is it Sopranos?

[A]

I don't. It's whatever you want. It's whatever you want, right? I have some Italian in me. I've got an Italian grandmother.

[B]

Oh, well, that's very Italian. Yeah, it's like, the most Italian it gets.

[A]

Sure. I mean, it's not like she's like, you know, it's not like that old New York. New York. It's like New York Irish. No one's got accents in my family.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You guys are like, it's 3pm Shut the up.

[B]

This is one of my favorite ones I've ever done. I'm not even just saying that. Are you having a good time? This is amazing.

[A]

Do you want to get. You guys want to get in here? Because I just feel bad that you're.

[B]

No, I said that they're God.

[A]

Never mind.

[B]

Which, by the way, I brought down. Did you. Did you. Do you know about, like, religion and stuff?

[A]

No. I was raised extremely atheist.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Like, my dad was, like, raised Irish Catholic, so he. I get. I think you go one or two ways, and, like, he totally went the way of, like, that's not gonna be in my family.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I'm not raising my kids like that.

[B]

Well, I was just saying, because I was doing skits. The. I was doing these little improv skits for G on Jesus the other day, and I did not know that Mary Magdalene and Mother Mary were two separate people.

[A]

Yes. Yeah. And hold on. What do you mean you're doing improv skits on Jesus the other day?

[B]

Oh, my God. You don't have social media, so let me tell you.

[A]

Okay?

[B]

I do these skits, so, like, I'll send them to you.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

If we exchange numbers.

[A]

Okay. I know you want to, because you looked at the wall when you said it. Okay. Yeah, we can absolutely exchange numbers.

[B]

Okay, cool.

[A]

And I don't like doing that.

[B]

Oh. So we don't have to.

[A]

Okay, great.

[B]

So I do these skits.

[A]

Wait, do you know who texted me the other day? Who? Speaking of having my number, do you know Ariana Greenblatt?

[B]

Yes, my queen. I just interviewed.

[A]

I knew her when she was 11.

[B]

Really? How?

[A]

We did a movie together.

[B]

What movie?

[A]

It's called Love and Monsters. It was canned by Paramount, but it's a really good little movie.

[B]

Ariana is the greatest.

[A]

She's. I. Well, first of all, she's my Virgo twin. She's the 27th.

[B]

Yeah. I was about to say it was just her birthday.

[A]

Like literally always even knew that. We were like, were jazzed about that when we were 11 and the hell was I 27. Yeah. And she texted me and she was like, you're doing I love Jake Shane. I was like, that's so cute.

[B]

Oh my God. So you really. People said good things about this before you came on.

[A]

To be fair, one person did say one really good thing about it. Don't you? I'm not gonna lie to you.

[B]

See, you don't lie. Yeah, I trust you.

[A]

But that was a really positive review. No, it was a great review and all. And overall my publicist is very excited about this. She's really, hey, absolutely adorable. Oh, you absolutely gotta go thank her. She loves you. So. Yeah, she was really excited about this.

[B]

Well, Dylan, what did we learn today?

[A]

Is this another section of the segment of the show?

[B]

It's the final segment.

[A]

Oh, no, really, what did we learn? I don't know. We talked. I feel like we had really good conversation. The, the write ins were really funny for me. The mountain lion one's crazy.

[B]

Crazy. I'm on the girl side.

[A]

Like she's probably a lot. Oh, incredible. What do we learn? I don't know. I think we talked. We talked. I love talking. Love talk.

[B]

Process.

[A]

Good healthy conversation processing. Talking life stuff. I really love that stuff. I love one on one conversations.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

As I. The more and more I get older, the more I realize that I'm. I'm not. I'm so overstimulated and not necessarily like thriving in like big communal spaces where like people aren't talking about anything.

[B]

It's just like, hey, hey.

[A]

It's just like drinks and noise and. Which I did have fun in for a long time, but I really value conversations.

[B]

Oh, that's what I was going to ask you actually. Do you prefer your 30s to your 20s?

[A]

Oh, I mean, well, I think you kind of have to just out of. Otherwise it's. Life is sad.

[B]

Right?

[A]

But. But yeah, they're just so. They're such different colors, you know, I mean, I Look, I. I know that I had a. Such a. Like, abundantly colorful and crazy and also regretful and also wonderful time in my 20s. I would not, like, want to be there. Now. I'm totally, like, comfortable with kind of where I'm at and how I'm operating, who I feel like I am, you know, today, which is really nice. And so, yeah, I wouldn't want to leap back. I feel like that happens a lot. I feel like.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I feel about my teenage years. I don't want to go back.

[A]

I mean, people have whole ass marriage. People. Men have whole ass marriages, have whole ass families, and then leap back, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I just think that that's not. No. Something I don't want to do.

[B]

Well, I guess what I learned is you're pretty healthy mentally.

[A]

That's really sweet of you.

[B]

I also learned that you pick up on other people's behaviors really well. Like, you know, when I get anxious, I look at the wall.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

It's like in another life, you were an interrogator.

[A]

Well, I love behavior.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

What do you mean?

[A]

Like, I don't know. I think I've always been really in tune to people's behaviors, and it's. It's so. It's why I love reality tv.

[B]

You know what? That does make sense. Did you ever watch the Real World?

[A]

Yeah, of course.

[B]

Yeah, I didn't. I think I watched one season.

[A]

No, like, raw. Reality is. Yeah. I don't know. I think that's. I think I can only assume that that's like a large part of the reason that I ended up doing what I do, I guess. But, yeah, you were really lovely to talk to as well. And I think that you're way more mentally sound than you think you are.

[B]

Really? Tell me more just before I let you go.

[A]

Well, what I'm getting from you a lot is like, you're. You think you're, like, a hot mess.

[B]

That is how I feel. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. But I feel like you're, like, really not.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[A]

That's so great. Or at least if you're in your own hot mess. Ness, I feel like you handle it really well. Like, I love that you just, like, I don't know, you feel really. There is a value in really feeling comfortable here for me, if that has any value to you.

[B]

Of course that has value to me. Okay, great. I'm so happy you felt comfortable.

[A]

I loved it. I really did feel comfortable. Well. Yeah.

[B]

Thank you for coming on, therapists.

[A]

Thanks for having me anytime. And I had a terrible morning. Really?

[B]

I can never tell. It's true. Oh, you did?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why was your morning. Oh, so that's what your therapist about.

[A]

Oh, we never did that.

[B]

Never. And I didn't want to put pressure on you and ask, but, like, it's.

[A]

It can't be spoken about anyway, but okay, that's fine. Yeah.

[B]

Well, Dylan, I'll see you in New York.

[A]

Yeah, baby.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Swear.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Cheers, Eyes. Do you want to give a little Bye, pussies?

[A]

Yeah. Oh, bye.