Podcast Summary: Therapy & Theology

Episode: Bonus: Receiving Judgment, Reaching for Closure, Rebuilding Trust | Q&A Part 2
Release Date: December 18, 2025
Host: Lysa TerKeurst with Jim Cress (therapist) and Dr. Joel Muddamalle (theologian)
Theme:
This Q&A episode tackles heartbreak, shame, and confusion after an unwanted divorce. Lysa, Jim, and Joel respond to listeners' raw, heartfelt questions about judgment, finding closure, and rebuilding trust when marriages end painfully. Together, they offer compassionate, theologically grounded, and practical guidance for navigating trauma, discerning truth, and healing—one step at a time.

Main Topic: Working Through, Not Just Over, Heartbreak

Lysa and her team emphasize the process of walking through emotional trauma after a divorce—not simply trying to "move on." They invite listeners to find peace, healing, and clarity, even when answers and resolution feel out of reach.

Key Questions & Insights

1. Making Peace with Your Role and Navigating Competing Narratives

• Question (01:22):
  How do I make peace with my part in the end of my marriage, especially when my ex’s family blames me, my family blames him, and I’m not sure what’s true? Does knowing the truth even matter?

Discussion Points

• Clarity vs. Closure:
  You may never get all your questions answered.
  “You may not ever be able to understand someone else’s narrative about a situation... we can’t spend the rest of our life trying to seek answers for these questions that may never come.” (Lisa, 01:52)
• Letting Go of Control:
  You can’t change other people’s stories or force them to see things your way.
• Discernment, Not Absolute Truth:
  Discernment isn’t always about right vs. wrong. It’s about distinguishing between right and almost right.
  “Discernment... is the determination between right and almost right.” (Dr. Joel, 03:58)
• Owning Your Part Without Owning All the Blame:
  Lisa shares her resistance to self-reflection because it felt like “helping justify the bad behavior” of her ex. Jim adds that you must first validate your trauma and pain before gently considering your own possible contributions.

Notable Quotes

• “This is not a spectator sport. This is a family being decimated on the field.” (Lisa, 02:48)
• “Let’s just go where the hurt is and see what we can do to help.” (Lisa, 03:30)
• “To walk through this [pain], begin to very gently look in the mirror: ‘God, is there any part that I played?’...Take that time first, though. Look at the damage that has been done to you.” (Jim, 08:13)
• “Nothing that I did justified anything that he did.” (Lisa, 06:50)
• Demo Day Metaphor:
  Before rebuilding, “take it down to the studs”—validate the trauma first. (Jim, 08:13)

2. Coping with Manipulative "Sorry" Texts After Betrayal

• Question (10:56):
  My husband left when I was one month postpartum. There was infidelity and now cocaine addiction. He sends weekly “I’m sorry, I love you” texts—but gets no help. How do I cope with these messages?

Discussion Points

• Forgiveness vs. Trust:
  Forgiveness is a command; reconciliation isn’t.
  “You can work on forgiving someone...but it is not an instant command by God that we must reconcile. Those two things don’t go together.” (Lisa, 11:26)
• “Love Bombing” Caution:
  Texts may be attempts to manipulate, not genuine repentance.
• Believable Change Requires Action:
  “Trust is broken in an instant. And to repair it takes a very long time.” (Lisa, 12:34)
  Continuous lies and lack of help mean trust is not warranted.
• Don’t Settle for “Cheap Forgiveness”:
  Jim warns against granting forgiveness without accountability: “That’s not being a peacemaker. That’s being a peace faker.” (Jim, 15:54)

Notable Quotes

• “Words are cheap. It’s real easy to say, ‘I love you. I want you back. I’ve changed.’ But what has he done to change?” (Lisa, 13:24)
• “I beg you to not do cheap forgiveness... Forgive you for what? You’re not being mean.” (Jim, 15:08)
• “When somebody shows you who they are, at some point, you just have to believe them.” (Dr. Joel, 19:19)

Key Theological Insights (16:06)

• Forgiveness in Greek:
  • Afiemi = cancel a debt
  • Charizomai (Paul’s word) = grace-laced forgiveness
• Requirements for Reconciliation:
  • Humility
  • Repentance (true turn-around)
  • Accountability

3. Seeking (or Not Seeking) Closure

• Question (19:44):
  Is it ever okay to approach your ex to ask for closure if you didn’t get it?

Discussion Points

• The Myth of Epiphany Closure:
  Lysa shares how she longed for the “epic conversation” that would explain everything.
  “When we try to make sense of something that makes no sense, we’ll lose all sense.” (Jim, 20:23)
• Self-Driven Closure:
  True closure does not depend on the other person’s accountability or understanding.
  “You can get individual closure...with God, without needing anything on the other side of the street from your spouse.” (Jim, 21:37)
• Consider Your Motive:
  What do you really want from “closure”? Is it an explanation, peace, or the return of something that can’t come back?

Notable Quotes

• “Can you really trust the closure that he will provide?” (Jim, 22:09)
• “What is the aim and intent of the closure? Sometimes what we want after the closure is...impossible.” (Dr. Joel, 24:26)
• Lysa’s Ritual of Closure:
  Placing her wedding ring inside her childhood Bible (found the week her divorce was finalized) and closing it in prayer—a private, sacred ending. (25:10)

Notable Moments & Quotes (with Timestamps)

• "This is not a spectator sport. This is a family being decimated on the field."
  — Lisa (02:48)

• "Discernment... is the determination between right and almost right."
  — Dr. Joel (03:58)

• "Nothing that I did justified anything that he did."
  — Lysa (06:50)

• "Demo day": Start by acknowledging and believing your own pain—then, gently, look for your own healing edges.
  — Jim (08:13), Lysa (09:30)

• "Words are cheap... but what has he done to change?"
  — Lysa (13:24)

• "That’s not being a peacemaker. That’s being a peace faker."
  — Jim (15:54)

• "When somebody shows you who they are, at some point, you just have to believe them."
  — Dr. Joel (19:19)

• "When we try to make sense of something that makes no sense, we’ll lose all sense."
  — Jim (20:23)

• "You can get individual closure by, in and of yourself with God, without needing anything... from your spouse."
  — Jim (21:37)

• "I took my wedding ring off, I put it [inside my childhood Bible], and I literally closed the Bible and put it on a shelf. And to me, that was the closure that I needed."
  — Lysa (25:10)

Practical Takeaways

• You may never get full clarity or acknowledgement from others.
  Focus on your healing, not their confession.
• Validate your pain and story—with compassionate witnesses, if possible.
• Forgiveness is for you, but trust and reconciliation must be earned by the other’s repentance and accountability.
• Be alert for manipulation disguised as affection ("love bombing").
• Seek closure with God and yourself if the other person remains unavailable or unsafe.
• Individual rituals or prayers can mark the end of a chapter, even in absence of external validation or apology.

Segment Timestamps

• 01:22 – Narratives, shame, and seeking the “true story”
• 03:58 – Discernment and the “almost right”
• 05:43 – Taking ownership: healthy boundaries for self-examination
• 08:13 – “Demo day” metaphor for emotional reset
• 09:30 – Witnessing and believing another’s pain
• 10:56 – Coping with manipulative “sorry” texts after infidelity/addiction
• 11:26 – Forgiveness vs. reconciliation/trust
• 15:54 – The danger of “cheap forgiveness”
• 16:06 – Theological framework: forgiveness, repentance, humility
• 19:44 – Is seeking closure from an ex ever advisable?
• 20:23 – Why “making sense” may never bring closure
• 21:37 – Finding closure within yourself and with God
• 25:10 – Lysa’s personal closure ritual

Tone & Language
Gentle, honest, and compassionate. Lysa, Jim, and Dr. Joel blend scriptural wisdom with therapeutic insight, normalizing pain, resisting pat answers, and always centering each woman’s agency in her own healing journey.

This summary is designed to stand alone for those who may never hear the episode, offering the heart and substance of the discussion—including wisdom, questions, and memorable moments—for anyone healing from heartbreak or walking through unwanted endings.