Podcast Summary: Therapy and Theology S10 E1

Episode Title: Does God Hate Divorce?
Release Date: September 11, 2025
Host: Lysa TerKeurst
Guests: Jim Cress (Licensed Professional Counselor), Dr. Joel Muddamalle (Director of Theological Research, Proverbs 31 Ministries)

Overview

This deeply compassionate episode sets the tone for Therapy and Theology’s tenth season, focused on the realities of divorce. Lysa, Jim, and Dr. Joel initiate an honest exploration of the common Christian phrase, “Does God hate divorce?” The trio seeks to differentiate biblically-informed truth from tradition or church rhetoric, providing hope, scriptural context, and emotional validation, particularly for listeners navigating unwanted divorce. With careful exegesis and personal reflection, the hosts empower listeners to seek healing without the weight of misunderstood “biblical” shame.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Setting the Table: Compassion and Biblical Fidelity

• Lysa recounts the deep pain of her own divorce and the lack of church support or understanding, describing a pivotal moment when a pastor asked, "Lysa, what do you wish the church knew about divorce?" (02:16)
• The team’s commitment: Move beyond personal or doctrinal agendas, and let God’s Word—not opinions—anchor the discussion.
  • “We don’t want to tell you what to think. We want to give you a lot to think about.” – Lysa (03:46)

2. The Imago Dei – Human Dignity in Marriage

• Dr. Joel: Begins with Genesis 1, emphasizing both men and women are made in God’s image (Shalem and Demut). This bestows royal dignity and worth on every individual, independent of marital status. (06:13–09:35)
  • “Both man and both women, they have the image and the likeness of God. There is dignity and there is worth and there is honor.” – Joel (09:26)
• Lysa adds: Our identity as God’s children comes before our roles as husband or wife. (12:13–12:47)
• Joel: Sin breaks humanity, not the image of God. The standard and status of the image remain, but post-Fall, we struggle to live them out, highlighting the need for Jesus. (12:47–13:36)

3. What Does the Bible Actually Say about Divorce?

• The "God hates divorce" phrase is discussed—most often attributed to Malachi 2:16 and often cited to shame, guilt, or pressure women (and sometimes men) into remaining in destructive marriages. (14:34–16:42)
• Key Distinctions:
  • The covenant is between man and woman, with God as Judge and Witness—not direct party—which raises the gravity but changes the nuance. (14:45)
  • God’s emotional engagement with human pain is explored, especially when one partner is unrepentant, abusive, or destructive. (16:42)

4. Difficult Marriage vs. Destructive Marriage

• Jim and Lysa: Not all failures or missteps in marriage call for divorce. The difference lies in patterns of unrepentant, destructive behavior vs. isolated mistakes met with real repentance. (16:47–18:22)
  • “There is a difference between a difficult marriage and a destructive marriage.” – Lysa quoting Leslie Vernick (17:38)
  • “Every rip in a relationship requires a repair.” – Lysa (18:01)

5. Understanding Repentance in Relationships

• Jim’s Clinical Insight: True repentance involves deep brokenness, ownership, absence of self-defense or blaming (“the destructive word called ‘but’”), and a willingness to absorb the impact on the partner. (18:47–20:21)

6. A Fresh Look at Malachi 2:16

• Dr. Joel’s Exegesis: The KJV and NKJV, by rendering “God hates divorce,” place hatred with God as the subject. Modern translations more accurately connect the hatred and violence to the actions of the offending spouse. (21:38–28:21)
  • “The subject of the hatred is not connected to God. The subject of the hatred is connected to the actions of the unfaithful partner…” – Joel (29:58–30:38)
  • Use of linguistic and translation nuances to illuminate misleading interpretations.

7. The Emotional and Spiritual Impact of Misinterpretation

• Real stories: The podcast team shares how the “God hates divorce” phrase wounds those who have done everything possible to honor their marriages. (21:38–23:59)
• Lysa’s personal reflection: The spiritual anxiety and “soul confusion” of being a faithful Christian woman attached to the word “divorce,” desperately seeking scriptural clarity and finding it only through deep study and wise counsel. (32:43–35:05)
  • “If they don’t have a proper understanding of scriptures, they will carry an unnecessary spiritual burden that actually can become a lie that they believe. That then becomes a label they put on themselves, that then becomes a liability for the rest of their life.” – Lysa (34:17)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lysa [03:43]:
  “We want to take an honest look at what the Bible says and does not say about this very delicate topic.”

• Dr. Joel [09:26]:
  “Both man and both women, they have the image and the likeness of God. There is dignity and there is worth and there is honor.”

• Jim [18:47]:
  “What God wants is a broken and contrite heart and spirit. So I’m looking, is there a true brokenness?... I see a person taking ownership and it's really good if I hear them, dare they look at their spouse... and say, ‘Tell me more. Is there more you want to say?’”

• Dr. Joel [29:58]:
  "The subject of the hatred is not connected to God. The subject of the hatred is connected to the actions of the unfaithful partner..."

• Lysa [34:17]:
  “If a person who’s walking through an unwanted divorce... doesn’t have a proper understanding of scriptures, they will carry an unnecessary spiritual burden that actually can become a lie that they believe, that then becomes a label they put on themselves, that then becomes a liability for the rest of their life.”

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:16: Lysa shares her personal heartbreak and the often-misunderstood pain of divorce in the church.
• 04:33: Dr. Joel sets the framework—humility, marriage as God’s image, and biblical precision.
• 06:13: Deep dive into Genesis—both men and women as royal image-bearers.
• 12:13: Lysa on roles and primary identity in God.
• 14:34: Addressing the origins of “God hates divorce”; clarification on marriage covenant.
• 16:47: Differentiating unrepentant destructive patterns from isolated mistakes.
• 18:47: Jim outlines the difference between confession and repentance.
• 21:38: The impact of church rhetoric on women—and God’s heart in unwanted divorce.
• 29:58: Joel’s exegesis of Malachi 2:16 using linguistic and historical context.
• 32:43–35:05: Lysa’s vulnerable reflections and charge to listeners facing divorce-related shame.

Final Takeaways

• The oft-cited “God hates divorce” phrase, when contextually and linguistically analyzed, is misapplied: it does not mean God hates divorced people, nor women (or men) forced out of marriages by another’s unrepentant sin.
• God’s heart, as shown in scripture, is for the protection, dignity, and healing of His image-bearers—especially those wounded unjustly.
• Listeners are encouraged: If you are walking through or affected by unwanted divorce, you are not condemned or unloved by God. Seek deeper scriptural understanding, trusted counsel, and do not carry the burden of a mistranslated “biblical” stigma.

For further study:
The team’s forthcoming book, Surviving an Unwanted Divorce: A Biblical, Practical Guide to Letting Go While Holding Yourself Together, releases November 2025.