Therapy & Theology, Season 11, Episode 1

"What Does It Mean To Be Spiritually Healthy?"

Host: Lysa TerKeurst (Lisa)
Guest: Dr. Joel Muddamalle
Date: February 12, 2026

Episode Overview

In this season opener of the “Health Check” series, Lysa (Lisa) and Dr. Joel Muddamalle discuss the meaning and practice of spiritual health. The conversation moves beyond physical or superficial New Year's resolutions, diving deep into the interconnectedness of spiritual, emotional, and physical well-being. The episode explores what it truly looks like to be spiritually healthy, common threats to spiritual health, practical disciplines, and the difference between shame and guilt—all framed through Scripture, personal stories, and honest self-reflection.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Spiritual Health as the Foundation

• [03:21-04:00] Lisa: Introduces the “Health Check” series and why spiritual health is the logical foundation for all other aspects:

  "I believe that spiritual health is foundational for every other area in our life that we want to flourish in."

• There is a tendency to focus only on physical health at the start of the year; the conversation aims to shift attention to inward, spiritual health.

2. Defining Spiritual Health

• [05:08-12:55] Dr. Joel:
  • Connects Old Testament (creation in Eden) and New Testament (1 Thessalonians 5:23) examples to show spiritual and physical are intricately linked.
  • Real life begins "when God's spirit, the spiritual reality, flourishes inside of the body and animates the rest of our body."
  • Memorable quote [10:56]:

    "A spiritually healthy person is a person whose heart affection is aligned with head knowledge, right? And so there's heart love that is matched with head knowing, which then flows in what you actually do."

  • Spiritual health is not perfection, but an awareness of brokenness, the need for Jesus, ongoing sanctification, and accountability.

Notable Educational Moment:

"Sometimes we think that spiritually healthy equates to human perfection... I'm unconvinced that's what the Bible is actually talking about." – Dr. Joel [09:30]

3. Spiritual Health ≠ Perfection

• [12:55-13:41] Lisa:
  • Highlights John 17:3 as the essence:

    “This is eternal life, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.”

  • Emphasizes honesty with God and spiritual honesty as core components.

4. Threats to Spiritual Health (“Dashboard Lights”)

• [15:34-22:34] Dr. Joel:

  • Draws from Teresa of Avila's "interior castle" metaphor: real threats are often hidden, internal—erosion starts inside.

  • Modern threats and dangers:

    • Contempt: "Contempt is one of those things that can absolutely destroy our spiritual health." [18:30]
    • Disordered desires: Good desires becoming “ultimate things,” thus replacing God.
    • Spiritual warfare: The enemy's tactic is to "present an exchange of dependence"—to shift our dependence away from God to good things, people, or status ([19:55]).
    • Boredom: Boredom can catalyze dependencies and unhealthy behaviors.

    Memorable quote [21:14]:

    "I think a threat to our spiritual health are things like boredom. Boredom can become a place where, because we're not comfortable with that and we don't know what to fill it up with, can become conduits to really be detrimental to our spiritual health."

5. Recognizing Early Warning Signs

• [23:59-27:27] Lisa:
  • Signs something is off:
    • "Going through the motions" spiritually—heart disconnected from spiritual practices.
    • A lack of joy, presence of dread.
    • Recognizing that “self-awareness” is key, as boredom or other temptations manifest differently for everyone.

6. Shame vs. Guilt: Responding to Spiritual Struggle

• [27:27-33:11] Dr. Joel:
  • Addresses how to seek God’s help, not fall into shame or self-sufficiency.
  • Key distinction ([29:35]):
    • Shame leads to isolation and further separation from God and others.
    • Guilt is a healthy, God-given conviction to bring us back to repentance and restoration.
  • "Shame is like the perfect tactic of the enemy... Shame leaves you disconnected from the truest authentic self of who you are."
  • The solution is a "theology of remembrance"—return to the truth that "while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)

Notable Story:

• Dr. Joel recounts a family story about his son feeling guilty for opening a sibling’s package—highlighting the difference between remorse (guilt) and isolation/justification (shame). ([30:23])

7. Sanctification: Noticing Change Over Time

• [33:11-35:29] Lisa:
  • It's hard to notice spiritual growth day-to-day, but reflecting over the long-term reveals God’s sanctifying work.

8. Spiritual Disciplines That Promote Health

• [35:29-40:03] Dr. Joel & Lisa:
  • Gratitude Practice:
    • Dr. Joel’s simple daily journal: best/worst part of the day, workout, prayer request, gratitude.
    • "Stacking gratitude" trains eyes to see God's goodness.
  • Bible Reading:
    • Dr. Joel switched to audio Bible in the sauna—narrative reading deepens perspective.
    • "Just like reading your Bible on a daily basis narratively, like as a story that is unfolding is something that is just going to encourage you in your spiritual health."
  • Community:
    • Importance of honest, unimpressed friends: "Have some people around you that just don't think too much of you..." ([39:29])
    • True friends care more about your growth in Christ than being comfortable or people-pleasing.
  • Other Disciplines: Confession, Sabbath, boundaries with technology, creating quiet for God's presence.
  • Tip ([40:50]):
    • Enjoy disciplines. Adapt them for what helps you most, e.g., prayer walks, listening to Bible, or adjusting phone boundaries.

9. Final Word of Encouragement

• [43:07-43:56] Dr. Joel:
  • "Spiritual health isn't about being perfect. It's about being persistent in our desire and dependence on God. Our health is intricately tied to his presence and provision in our life."
  • Reframe spiritual health as ongoing pursuit and dependence on God’s Spirit, not an achievement of perfection.

Notable Quotes & Moments (with Timestamps)

• "A spiritually healthy person is well aware of both their aim and their ambition. Their spiritual healthy person has an aim for Jesus." – Dr. Joel [10:56]
• "Our tendency... is to be self-sufficient, totally independent. We want to prove something... maybe even to God. Which is kind of a wild thing to think about!" – Dr. Joel [27:30]
• "Shame is like the perfect tactic of the enemy because the outcome of shame is despair and loneliness and disconnection both from God and His people." – Dr. Joel [31:10]
• "Community is... having some people around you that just don't think too much of you... they're just kind of unimpressed with you." – Dr. Joel [39:29]
• "Spiritual health isn't about being perfect. It's about being persistent in our desire and dependence on God." – Dr. Joel [43:07]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:21-05:08: Setting up the topic—spiritual health as foundation
• 05:08-12:55: Dr. Joel defines spiritual health, connects Scripture (Eden, 1 Thess 5:23)
• 13:41-15:34: Lisa’s summary and addition: spiritual honesty, knowing God
• 15:34-22:34: Threats to spiritual health: contempt, disordered desires, boredom, spiritual warfare
• 23:59-27:27: Early warning signs; Lisa shares practical personal red flags
• 27:27-33:11: Shame vs. guilt, how to return to God’s grace
• 33:11-35:29: Sanctification and noticing spiritual change
• 35:29-40:03: Spiritual disciplines—gratitude, Bible reading, community, confession, Sabbath
• 43:07-43:56: Dr. Joel’s closing encouragement on spiritual health

Tone & Language

The episode is warm, conversational, honest, and practical, balancing theology with relatable real-life stories. The hosts are self-deprecating, authentic, and deeply empathetic, rooting their advice in both Scripture and lived experience.

Summary Takeaways

• Spiritual health is foundational to all aspects of life, yet is not about perfection—it’s about persistent dependence on God and alignment between heart and head.
• The biggest threats are often subtle and internal: contempt, misplaced dependence (“good things” becoming “God things”), and boredom.
• Self-awareness, honesty, and community are essential for maintaining health and spotting warning signs early.
• Shame isolates; guilt, rightly processed, draws us back to God for restoration.
• Spiritual disciplines (Bible reading, gratitude, confession, Sabbath) are not ends in themselves but means to foster ongoing connection, honesty, dependence, and joy with God.
• Regular reflection reveals the Spirit’s work even when daily change feels invisible.
• True friends and humble honesty are invaluable—God honors authentic communities.

This episode is a compelling, accessible guide for anyone seeking spiritual well-being in the new year, graciously reminding listeners that spiritual flourishing is the fruit of honest process, not isolated achievement.