Podcast Summary: Therapy and Theology Episode: Season 9, Episode 1 – “Is This a Red Flag? Here’s How You Can Know”
Release Date: July 10, 2025
Host: Lysa TerKeurst
Guests: Jim Cress (Licensed Professional Counselor) and Dr. Joel Mutamale (Director of Theological Research at Proverbs 31 Ministries)

Introduction

In the premiere episode of the Season 9 miniseries, titled “Is This a Red Flag? Here’s How You Can Know,” host Lysa TerKeurst, alongside her guests Jim Cress and Dr. Joel Mutamale, delves into the intricate dynamics of trust and red flags within relationships. The discussion is rooted in both therapeutic insights and theological perspectives, aiming to equip listeners with the understanding needed to identify and navigate potential warning signs in their personal and professional relationships.

Defining Red Flags in Relationships

[02:32] Lisa TerKeurst:
Lisa opens the conversation by expressing her deep personal connection to the topic of trust, citing her own experiences of having her trust broken multiple times. She emphasizes that red flags are not limited to romantic relationships but extend to friendships, family ties, and even one’s relationship with God.

“Red flags sometimes indicate the roots of distress, but also they can be warnings even before you get into a relationship.”
– Lisa TerKeurst [05:05]

Jim Cress adds that red flags serve as subconscious signals that something might be amiss, urging individuals to pay attention rather than dismissing their intuitive feelings.

Understanding Trust: Safety and Connection

The trio explores the foundational elements of trust, identifying safety and connection as its cornerstones. Lisa shares her personal tendency to prioritize safety, sometimes at the expense of deep connections.

[05:05] Jim Kress:
Jim acknowledges Lisa’s self-awareness and her approach to distancing herself when safety is compromised.

“I'm going to begin to distance or pull back. That's some good ownership.”
– Jim Kress [06:26]

Dr. Joel Mutamale introduces a theological lens by examining the Hebrew word bata, translated as trust. He notes that trust in God is inherently positive, whereas trust in humans can carry negative connotations, highlighting the fragile nature of human relationships.

“Trust is at the very center of that [relationship with God].”
– Dr. Joel Mutamale [08:42]

Theological Insights on Trust and Relationships

Dr. Joel delves into the biblical context, referencing Genesis to illustrate how God designed relationships with inherent safety and connection. He questions why God created Adam and Eve first, suggesting that their initial relationship was meant to reflect an ideal balance of safety and connection.

[08:08] Dr. Joel Mutamale:

“God intends for Adam and Eve's first experience in Eden to be within the context of safety and connection.”
– Dr. Joel Mutamale

Lisa echoes this sentiment by highlighting Genesis 2, emphasizing the absence of shame and the presence of pure love and acceptance, which were eroded in Genesis 3 with the entrance of sin.

“There was safety and connection even in that [Eden].”
– Lisa TerKeurst [10:29]

Personal Experiences and Vulnerabilities

The conversation shifts to personal anecdotes, where Lisa shares her early 20s experiences of prioritizing connection over safety, leading her to overlook red flags in her relationships. Jim discusses his anxious attachment style, stemming from childhood, which makes him prioritize connection, often at the risk of compromising safety.

[21:53] Jim Kress:
Jim reveals his vulnerability regarding connections being hijacked or hotwired, emphasizing the importance of time in assessing the authenticity of relationships.

“I want to vet it and say, give it some time. After a while, most people can't pull off ongoingly hijacking or hot wiring a connection.”
– Jim Kress [23:09]

Dr. Joel Mutamale acknowledges his own susceptibility to sacrificing safety for connection, often rationalizing problematic behaviors to maintain relationships.

“I will condone the lack of safety. I will make excuses for it.”
– Dr. Joel Mutamale [25:22]

Risks of Prioritizing Connection Over Safety

The discussion highlights the dangers of overvaluing connection, which can lead to staying in unhealthy relationships by excusing or minimizing red flags. Lisa emphasizes that this imbalance can transform a positive, generous individual into someone guarded and skeptical.

[29:15] Lisa TerKeurst:

“Living with that kind of skepticism, I've discovered, can turn me into someone that I am not.”
– Lisa TerKeurst [29:15]

Jim and Dr. Joel reinforce the idea that rationalizing red flags undermines the foundation of trust and can lead to emotional exhaustion and eventual relationship breakdowns.

Unpacking Trust Issues: A Nuanced Approach

Lisa introduces the importance of distinguishing between different types of trust issues. She differentiates between not trusting someone as a moral person versus not trusting someone to be responsible, underscoring the need for clarity when addressing trust concerns.

[18:36] Lisa TerKeurst:

“Trust is a really big word. When we say trust, does that mean that we don't trust that they are a moral person or do we not trust that they are a responsible person.”
– Lisa TerKeurst [17:09]

This nuanced understanding allows individuals to address specific issues rather than making blanket judgments about a person’s character.

Conclusion and Next Steps

As the episode wraps up, Lisa previews the next installment in the miniseries, promising a deeper dive into eleven relational red flags. She encourages listeners to reflect on their relationships and consider downloading the free resource, “Is This Normal? 15 Red Flags You May Be Missing in Your Relationships,” to further guide their personal growth and relational health.

“True trustworthy relationships require connection. Super important. Can't have a relationship if you have no connection. But it's going to be really hard to have connection without real safety.”
– Lisa TerKeurst [29:42]

Key Takeaways

1. Red Flags Extend Beyond Romance: Red flags are present in all types of relationships, including friendships and family ties, not just romantic ones.

2. Foundations of Trust: Trust in relationships is built on safety and connection. Balancing these elements is crucial for healthy interactions.

3. Theological Perspective: Biblical narratives, such as Genesis, illustrate the ideal balance of safety and connection, which relationships often deviate from due to sin and human fallibility.

4. Personal Awareness: Understanding one’s own tendencies—whether prioritizing safety over connection or vice versa—can help in identifying and addressing red flags effectively.

5. Nuanced Trust Issues: Differentiating between types of trust issues (e.g., moral vs. responsible trust) allows for more targeted and constructive resolutions.

6. Long-Term Impacts: Ignoring red flags for the sake of connection can lead to emotional exhaustion, disillusionment, and the eventual breakdown of relationships.

Notable Quotes

• Lisa TerKeurst [05:05]:
  “Red flags sometimes indicate the roots of distress, but also they can be warnings even before you get into a relationship.”

• Jim Kress [06:26]:
  “I'm going to begin to distance or pull back. That's some good ownership.”

• Dr. Joel Mutamale [08:42]:
  “Trust is at the very center of that [relationship with God].”

• Lisa TerKeurst [10:29]:
  “There was safety and connection even in that [Eden].”

• Jim Kress [23:09]:
  “I want to vet it and say, give it some time. After a while, most people can't pull off ongoingly hijacking or hot wiring a connection.”

• Dr. Joel Mutamale [25:22]:
  “I will condone the lack of safety. I will make excuses for it.”

• Lisa TerKeurst [29:15]:
  “Living with that kind of skepticism, I've discovered, can turn me into someone that I am not.”

Resources Mentioned

• Free Resource: Is This Normal? 15 Red Flags You May Be Missing in Your Relationships by Lisa TerKeurst. Download Link

• Sponsored Content: Chosen’s exclusive webinar on understanding attachment styles – Access for listeners at ChosenCareP31.

Listener Engagement

The hosts encourage listeners to share their experiences by leaving ratings, written reviews, or voice memos. They also invite listeners to support Proverbs 31 Ministries to continue producing impactful content.

Stay Tuned:
Don’t miss the next episode where Lisa, Jim, and Joel will explore six of the eleven relational red flags, diving deeper into the roots of distrust and the often inexplicable “ick” feelings we experience in our interactions.

Thank you for tuning into Therapy and Theology. Empower yourself to work through what you walk through by staying connected with our insightful discussions.