B (5:12)

Thanks so much for having me back. It was so fun the first time and I'm so glad that I could be back.

A (5:17)

Me too. I really enjoy talking with you and more and more what the content of yours that I see on Instagram. I'm just like, gosh, I'm so, I admire so much the way you're able to illustrate for people using your own experience what it's like to be an adult survivor of childhood trauma parenting. And as a therapist, it's, it's such a gift that you do that and normalize what it feels like to go through that experience and try instead of trying to make everything seem so perfect.

B (5:53)

Thank you so much. Yeah, it's, it's hard, but I do feel like the more that I do it, the more, the more it comes a little bit more naturally to think about what I'm feeling and to share that in a, in a way that feels safe for me. That might help other people understand that these feelings are really universal to complex trauma survivors and that they're not alone in the feelings that they're having. So I Love that you. Appreciate that. Thank you.

A (6:18)

Yes. It's so valuable. It's so valuable because you know that our culture is like, I used to have this problem. I healed, and now you can, too. I'll tell you how. Because I'm got it all figured out, and it's like, come on, that's not real.

B (6:34)

Yeah. So, yeah, I always think, like, I'm not a before and after. I'm like a before enduring, and this is my during, you know, And I don't have it all figured out. And so letting people in on that, it is very vulnerable. But it's also so necessary in today's world because you're so right. It's like a Transformation Tuesday. I mean, it is Tuesday. Transformation Tuesday, World, right?

A (6:55)

Yes.

B (6:56)

Yeah.

A (6:58)

So for anyone who's not familiar with you and your work, will you just give us a little introduction to who you are and what you do?

B (7:05)

Yeah. I'm Amber Trejo. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist. I specialize in complex trauma and cptsd. And I love, love, love working specifically with parents who have had their own complex childhood trauma and have high ACEs scores and are trying to figure out and learn to navigate all of these things and experiences that come in parenting in different ways than they experience themselves. So that's my. My niche that I love working with.

A (7:40)

It's so beautiful. And by the way, for many years, I have wanted people to understand that one of the reasons why parenting is so hard is because of the ways that you were not parented the way you needed to be. You, meaning everyone. Because, you know, in past decades, people didn't understand what we do now about trauma and attachment. And you have a program. Tell people what you're offering, because I don't know exactly when it closes, but hopefully this will come out in time for people to join. Yeah.

B (8:17)

Thank you so much for bringing that up. I didn't even think about that. I'm like, yeah, I should. That's a good thing to talk about. So my current program is closed. It's. It closed January 7th, but I am going to keep it rolling because I had a really good turnout, and I feel like it's something that's really needed. And the program is specifically for moms who experienced complex childhood trauma. And so it. It's like a parenting course. However, it's mostly about how to navigate those wounds that you're healing from from your own childhood and so that you can then show up as the parent that you need to be for your child. So it's not so heavy on the parenting advice. Like, you need to do this, you need to do that. I always tell my clients I am not a parenting expert at all, but I am another complex trauma survivor who's a mom who's had to figure out how to navigate those wounds. And I don't feel like there's enough parenting support out there for moms who've had. And parents in general who have had.

A (9:11)

Complex trauma and that there's plenty of parenting courses, but to, you know, address the wounds and not just say, and you have childhood trauma that you need to deal with also. So here's how to respond to your child. But don't get activated or stay regulated or whatever you need to co regulating how.

B (9:31)

I can't even.

A (9:32)

I don't know which way is up exactly. I can relate to as a parent, you know, when my kids were little. Oh, my gosh.

B (9:39)

Yeah, me too. So that's really what I go through. I go through just a different. What I feel like are the pillars of healing from trauma. And I connect those with how your trauma might show up in your parenting and then things you can do to soothe yourself. So a lot of my, my course is about or program. It's also going to be a course, but is about how to soothe yourself when you're feeling the really big emotions because we really didn't learn that from our parents. So.

A (10:06)

Yeah. And then we can teach our kids and it's a beautiful thing.

B (10:09)

Yes, absolutely.

A (10:10)

Wonderful. Well, I'll be sure to put a link in the show notes so that people can learn more about, you know, even if they're listening this a few years from now, like what you have going on right now.

B (10:20)

And thank you so much. Yeah. And I'm going to do the program again probably in two months. So I'll just start people on a wait list now and then I'll take whatever feedback I get because this was my beta launch from this, this round and fix it up and make it even better.

A (10:35)

So wonderful. Awesome. I know it's going to help so many people. Thank you for what you do. That's what I keep telling you. You know, on Instagram, I'm like, I love this. Keep, please keep.

B (10:48)

I love your support and encouragement. It's so, it. It helps me so much because it does feel really vulnerable. Like, I think the post that you had responded to about the grief was a post that I had made and I felt really. That felt vulnerable to me. And so I was a little bit like, okay, just go, you know, post it. But it is hard sometimes.

A (11:08)

There's that line between, you know, sharing from the wound and sharing from the, you know, the healing that you've experienced within that wounding. And so I think, you know, that's where we are today in what we wanted to talk about, which is I really wanted to talk after I saw your post, about what it's like being an adult who experienced childhood trauma when your parents come to the end of their lives. I know from my work that so often people are caught by surprise by the way their trauma kind of bursts open when their parents pass away. Either they didn't know they had this trauma or they knew and they think that, you know, well, we weren't close, so it won't hurt me when they pass. In fact, it'll be a relief. But, you know, there's a lot of surprises in that process. And I was hoping that through talking about both of our experiences, that can help people kind of understand what's. What's common and what's typical in this type of experience and feel less alone and what they're going through and also know when, you know, when they might need more support and they're trying to kind of white knuckle through. They could find more comfort if they were to receive support.

B (12:40)

Absolutely, yes. I love that. And have you shared with your viewers that your dad has passed away recently?

A (12:48)

Yes. Yes. So I don't know if everyone who's going to hear this episode has. Is aware, but yes. And this is January, so it. Back in November, just a couple months ago, I lost my dad. And for me, my dad was 84, so it was certainly not unexpected, but. And there was kind of a long. For people who've listened to the podcast for a while, I've talked about how there was a period where I almost lost one of my parents and then they didn't pass. That was my dad. So I kind of went through a trial run in 2019 when, you know, I mean, we said goodbyes, we. I would say we said the things that needed to be said to each other, not all the things. Like, in a way, I think when I thought my dad was dying, I wanted to tell him the vulnerable things about how much I loved him, how much he meant to me, and we shared those things. But, you know, the things that were more. The pain points I didn't bring up. And then when we ended up having five more years together, which I'm grateful for, in that time, I wanted to really just be as open and honest with him as I could be with what I felt he could hear or hold, you know, what he had the capacity for. So I feel like the deepest stuff was really solid. But, you know, that doesn't mean that the hurts and the, the what didn't happen that I needed was just erased. Those are things that I've been working on myself in my own therapy for many years. So. Because my dad really was my primary caregiver for a while. And so I don't know what other people think of when they think of their dad. But you know, a lot of dads are like, not that involved in their kids lives and that's its own thing. But my dad really was. So it was a close relationship and it was a big, big loss.

B (15:03)

Yeah.

A (15:04)

And it brought up a lot of my childhood trauma, even though I had been working for years in therapy on those things. So that's partly what I wanted to kind of like talk about is how I don't know if there's a way to not have it be bringing up your attachment wounds and your trauma wounds, you know, when, when you lose your parent because they're an attachment figure.

B (15:31)

Absolutely. And I love that you voiced it like that. Right. Because as you said it, you're like, even though I've done all of these years of work.

A (15:39)

Right.

B (15:40)

And something that I see that can be a little bit of a, a theme in complex trauma survivors. I don't know if you've experienced this, but we kind of want to like, find the cheat sheet to our hard feelings. Right. Like, because the end goal is really like, if I could just not feel this.

A (15:57)

Wow. Right?

B (15:58)

That would be awesome. Like, if I could heal enough to just not feel this, to just be at peace with it and be like, it's okay, everything's fine, and just move about my day. Right. Then that would be awesome. And so the way that you named like that you were working for years on your healing journey about healing these trauma wounds and these attachment wounds. And the, the thing that came up for me was abandonment wounds. Right. So I feel like for me, a large part of my abandonment wounds were triggered when my mom passed away. And I just feel like, like sometimes learning. And a big piece of this, my grief process was this. Is that like just allowing yourself to feel all the pain that comes with it is actually such a big sign of growth. Right. Like that there's no, there is no cheat sheet. And that, like, it's okay that you don't feel one kind of way or if you feel one kind of way, that's okay. If you don't feel what you feel like you should feel. That's okay. Just being able to say, like, I'm allowed to feel whatever I feel. No matter how hard I've worked to overcome this, no matter how hard I've worked to heal, right? That, like, it's okay for all those feelings to come back up. And of course they will.

A (17:17)

Yeah. Today's episode is sponsored by Psychotherapy Networker and Pessi. If you're a therapist, be sure to check out the Partner page, which is linked in the Show Notes, where you can get discounted trainings with previous Therapy Chat guests like Courtney Armstrong, Dr. Leslie Korn, Dr. Arielle Schwartz, Dr. Tammy Nelson, Dr. Janina Fisher, Rebecca Case, Dr. Peter Levine, Dr. Lindsay Gibson, Deb Dana, Lori Gottlieb and many, many others. You'll find the link in the Show Notes to my Partner page with Pesi and Psychotherapy Networker where you can find all these discounted training. If you need CES, this is a great place to go. TherapyNotes is consistently transforming the way therapists manage their practices with continuous updates designed to save money and improve efficiency. Their latest Game Changer Therapy Fuel, a powerful and fully integrated suite of AI tools that streamline documentation so you can focus more on your clients. With AI features that help by generating progress notes from summaries or transcriptions, creating contact notes directly from client secure messages, and automated summaries of client history forms, TherapyNotes users are already reporting hours of saved time and energy. Some other recent feature improvements include automated recurring client payments, electronic secondary insurance billing, and their constantly expanding library of outcome measures. The best time to give TherapyNotes a try is now. Sign up for your free trial by going to therapynotes.com, clicking start my free trial and accessing your first two months free with the promo code. Chat save. See why TherapyNotes is the most trusted EHR for behavioral health professionals today that I know. You're right. It's funny because as you were talking, I'm like, well, one of the wounds is that it wasn't really okay to express my feelings.

B (19:07)

Like, say it. Yes.

A (19:11)

Like.

B (19:13)

Yes, yes, yes.

A (19:15)

You know, Absolutely.

B (19:17)

Yeah.

A (19:18)

So, so true. And your mom passed away and that was one reason, you know, you're ahead of me in this journey because it's been a little bit slightly longer, but not a lot longer. And my automatic thought about your mom passing away, like an assumption would be you've shared that, you know, there was a complicated relationship between you two, so maybe it's not that bad for you. And I know that, you know, logically and in my heart, I know that just doesn't make sense, but, you know, there's this way of, like, wanting it, just wanting it not to be so painful, even to empathize with another person and wanting it not to be so painful for them. So can you tell a little bit about, like, where you are with your journey and when. You know, how. What's the. What was the relationship like for you and your mom?

B (20:13)

Yeah, so my mom and I, we. I'm trying to, like, give the Cliff notes version of this as much as I can. So my mom was a single mom, and my. My dad left when I was 8 years old, and she was and could be very physically, emotionally. Physically and emotionally abusive. She also struggled with alcoholism, and she was married several different times after my dad, so she would always kind of be with the next guy. So she was always out and about, you know, like, she wasn't at home very often. So I experienced a lot of abuse and neglect at the same point as I grew older. Well, not really as the same at the same point, but one part of that was as I got into, like, my. My early mid-20s, my mom did take responsibility for a lot of the stuff she did. Like, she said I was such a bad mom. You know, I totally didn't show up for you. And so that was always really helpful because just having her take responsibility right off the bat, I felt like that led way to us be being able to still have a relationship. But of course, I was still severely traumatized. And before I became a therapist and had my own children, I didn't realize, like, the depth of. Not how bad what she did was, but just, like, kind of how impactful it was. You know, seeing my own kids, I was just like, what the heck were you thinking? You know what I mean? And so I felt like a lot of having my own children, and this is a large part of what I talk about, already opened up a lot of those wounds. And so one piece about my mom dying. We lived really far apart, and she had gotten diagnosed with lung cancer. She smoked cigarettes my whole life, and her lung cancer was really slow growing, and she decided not to get treatment for it. So she changed a lot about her lifestyle, but she still continued smoking, and she tried to give it up a lot of different times. She just never could. So about a year before she got really, really sick, she was pretty much, like, living her life fine with lung cancer. You know, it was. She didn't have that many symptoms. She was just doing green juices, like, trying to Eat healthy, all of those different things. But you wouldn't know she had cancer unless she told you. And then she ended up moving to Indiana close to me and my family, and we kind of reconnected. She was able to show up for my children, and she did show up for my children in ways that she.

A (22:51)

She.

B (22:51)

She had never shown up for me. So that was really healing for me as well. But I remember right before she got really sick, I had told my sister, you know, like, I just feel really scared, like. So going back to that trauma piece, right. What we're really used to is, like, things going well, and then something hits, and it all kind of comes falling down. And so that's what I was feeling like, almost like, you're coming here, Our relationship's healing. It feels better. There's still some of those old patterns and things like that, but it's not. It's. It's better. It's good. And then she got really, really sick, and then all of the stuff with the cancer started. Her cancer had spread all over her body and. And things like that. And. And at that same time, my son was in third grade, which was, like, when some of my most horrific trauma had really started with her. Right. And so many. My dad had left. So at that age, my mom was.

A (23:52)

You said third grade.

B (23:53)

I was like, oh, yeah, my mom was really. My mom was really neglectful at that time. She started drinking so much and things like that. So I was also really, like, in a little bit of an emotional flashback having my mom there and then having my son be the same same age I was when so much of these really traumatic things happened to me. So. So it was just really, really complicated. And I felt that the sicker she got, the meaner she got towards me again. And. And that was hard. Like, I wanted to be able to show up for her. I wanted to. And I didn't always do it the right way. Right. Because I think I had also started sharing about more about my trauma on my content creation around this time, like, shortly before, which is another piece that makes it really complicated because my mom never denied that she did the things she did, but she had a really hard time accepting that it was as traumatic as I made it out to be. Right. It was kind of like, well, you just talk about how you went through so much trauma, and I was like, mom, I did. And so we had some really good conversations around that. And I was able to explain to my mom what CPTSD was and what was probably happening to her while she was having those reactive moments towards her children and she was, you know, really like, oh, I didn't know. You know, and so that was helpful, but at the same time it was also just so complicated and, and just, I don't know.

A (25:32)

It's like that role reversal too, which is very much like what is so common for a child in a single parent home, you know, where they're sort of unconsciously parenting the parent, even if the parent doesn't realize it. The child's like suppressing their own needs for the good of the relationship, which is really their way of trying to get their needs met. Obviously.

B (25:54)

Yeah. And it. I love that you mentioned that. I'm not sure. Did that ever come up with you with your dad? The. The role reverse?

A (26:02)

I mean, I didn't really think it did, but sometimes now when I look back, I realize that there were a lot of things that I suppressed without him consciously telling me to or directly saying for me to. Because I didn't feel that he could handle my emotions. So it was like, you know, a lot of times people think that parentification is something that parents do to the kids by making them meet their needs, you know, and sometimes it is like when a child has to go to the grocery store when they're four or five years old because the parent is sick or something like that. Like, that is more direct. You have to go because I can't do it. But when it's more subtle, like you just can sense. Kids can sense what their parents can handle and can't. And sometimes it's inaccurate. But the parent, the child is, you know, it's like maybe the parent could handle it, but the child doesn't feel they can. So they are suppressing it anyway, you know.

B (27:07)

Absolutely.

A (27:09)

Yeah. I think that's really, really confusing.

B (27:12)

It is really confusing and it's really common. I love that you named that because it's. I think that a lot of people think it's something parents intentionally do. But a lot of times it's the same thing with regulate, like with our emotions. Right? Yeah. Like if, if our, if our parent always has these really big emotions, like we're naturally going to be like, there's no space for our emotions. And then that's one way that that shows up. But you're so right.

A (27:35)

Makes sense with our body too. Like if their body's given off a vibe of, you know, with. Then our body's like, okay, protect.

B (27:44)

Yeah. Yes. Yes. And so you had mentioned the role reversal for me and my mom, that's the way it always was. So I showed up. You know, when she started getting into her alcoholism and stuff, I was always the one showing up as the parent. I was like, someone's gotta hold down the frickin fort around here, lady. And like, it's gonna be me. So I would be the one calling her, you know, late at night, like, get your ass home, like, and all of those things. So it was interesting, the role reversal, because it really did show up there at the end. And my sister lives here as well, and she was the main one who would go to the rehab every single day to be with my mom and did a lot of the things around her house and things like that that she needed done. So I. I did hold a firm boundary on that because I had my three kids and I was just like, there's just. I can only show up with what I can show up for. But, like, I still felt myself trying to, you know, what I was doing was like, not grieving because I knew it would be too much for her. So it was like, I'm gonna hold it in, I'm gonna be stoic. I'm going to show up, I'm going to try to be there for her. But then I would also be like, I want her to grieve. I want her to let her emotions out. So I would be like, what's your favorite worship song? My mom was a Christian, and I just remember one time in the rehab, she wanted to listen to How Great Thou art. And Reba McEntire is her favorite singer ever. So we put that on by Reba McEntire. And I would brush her hair, and I was like, brushing her hair and that was on, and I was just like, crying and I was like, there's no way. I couldn't cry, right? And I was just like, this could be this beautiful moment between my mom and me, you know? And I wanted that so bad. And just looking in my mom's eyes, she just was so shut down, you know? Like, it was like there was nothing I could do to, like, create that moment between us and she wasn't gonna be the person. And that sounds like. I feel selfish even saying it because, like, she was dying, but I was still like her daughter. I guess I just, like, would hope that she would be like my baby girl. Come here. I love you so much. This is so hard for me too. I'm gonna miss you so much. I'm so proud of you. And it just like, wasn't happening, you know? And so what I found was just like, this Deep need to, like, be able to grieve with my mom. And like, our relationship was better. Like, I was just like, we can make this, we can make this sacred. We can make this peaceful. We can make this something that we get, we get to control the narrative on. Right.

A (30:23)

Like, it's almost a do over of the relational, you know, the connection that we all need and wish for.

B (30:32)

Yeah.

A (30:33)

As children.

B (30:35)

Yes. And. And it, it was still. I was being let down. And so that was the thing that I think was hard. And that's what I think is hard for a lot of complex trauma survivors. And I'm not sure if you feel like this, but like, our younger parts, they still really want that. And no matter how much we tell them, like, hey, you're not going to get it, like, hey, it's okay, I'll give it to you. When we're around our parents and something hard is happening, those younger parts, like, long for that comfort. And so that little Amber inside of me was just like, I want my mommy. Like, I'm terrified. Like, I don't want her to go. Like, I can't live without you, you know, and no matter how much 30s, I can't remember 38 year olds, Amber, like, could be like, we're good. I'm like, I've got this under control. I've done all this, years of healing work. Like, no, that little Amber was showing up full force, you know?

A (31:33)

Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Amber, for sharing that. And that's not wrong. That's not wrong. That's. It's right. Yeah, it's right for that young part to want that. And I think that's what, you know, sometimes when we're on a healing path. And I think like, we're either we're all on a path and we're, it's either a healing path or we're not conscious of what we need to heal. But we find these parts that hold all this pain and longing and grief and wish for something to be different. We. We consider them to be like, inconvenient or in the way we just want them to go away and not be there, you know, and. But that young, young Amber that wanted that, like, she wanted it because she was deserved it. She was entitled to have that experience. And it's really sad that that didn't get to happen. And, you know, but I also, I don't know about you and maybe this is like wishful thinking, but I do feel like, you know, energetically, there's a way to still sort of have the that healing potential be there when. Even when the person is gone. Because it's almost like now they're not limited. That helps me somewhat to when I can. Even if it is wishful thinking. So what if it makes me feel better?

B (33:02)

That's exactly what I say.

A (33:04)

Yes. Yes.

B (33:06)

I love that. Do you feel like you felt your dad since he passed?

A (33:10)

Yeah, I really, I really felt him a lot at first and it's only been just over two months, but. Which is really no time. But it feels like it's gotten more complicated as. As there's been more distance. It's like when I was. When it first happened, I was more really present to the experience that I just lost him and kind of like connecting with all of the pain and the joy of our relationship. You like all of the mix. As time has passed, it's. I guess it's sort of that some part of me is like, well, you know, okay, come on, like move along. There's not, you know, can't be thinking about this all the time. So I try to notice those moments that feel like signs or messages. Sometimes it feels really inaccessible and other times it. It feels like right there. But when it, when he first passed, I really felt like he was here and I could feel him, so. But I'm not giving myself as much time and space with it now because it's like I feel like I have to keep, you know, you like life ain't free. You got to keep working. Yeah, I mean, you know, I try to give myself like a lot of space. Being a therapist and being self employed, I. I can make my own schedule and I can choose how many clients I'm working with at a given time. So I have a small caseload and I try to give myself enough space for myself that when I'm with my clients, I'm fully with my clients, you know, but there's just parts of me that are like, well, you know, gotta keep going, gotta keep going. And I feel like that's also a re. Reliving trauma type of thing too, so.

B (35:00)

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Like I've definitely felt like that like after the initial, like few days of sobbing and crying, I was just like, okay, like I just don't want to feel this, you know. And then the thing that I wasn't anticipating was like how it would feel on those firsts without her. Even if we hadn't spent you know, every holiday together or every birthday together. Like my first birthday without my mom, you know, it was just like so weird. And like, no matter how far away it feels. It's just like it's right there. And I feel like something that I did a lot and that I still do, but I'm. I still, like, I understand where you're coming from, because I feel like I'm like, okay, time's up. Time's up. You know? And then when I do that, the way that it really shows up is in my other relationships, like, I'm just, like, shorter. I'm just. I start getting irritable. I start. And then I'm like, oh, what I'm really feeling right now is sadness. And I haven't allowed myself to process that. And so. And that it's okay to still feel sadness, like, if it comes up. You know, there's no time limit on that, but I feel like something I did a lot, which. Have you seen the show shrinking yet?

A (36:09)

I watched it a little bit, but I didn't totally get into it. But are you recommending it? Because I'll go.

B (36:15)

I mean, it's funny. Some therapists can be a little, like, activated by it because the boundaries are so skewed.

A (36:21)

But that's what I didn't resonate with. I was like, yeah, there's one thing in the first few episodes where I was like, you would lose your license if you did that. And that is, like, not okay. So, yeah, I mean, I need to just lighten up a little bit and pretend, it's, you know, not a world of ethics and just watch it for the humor.

B (36:41)

Yes. And it is really funny, but it is very, like, definitely, totally unethical, and they're problematic in lots of ways. But one thing that is on there is the. His friend talks about, like, kind of, like giving yourself 15 minutes, putting on a song that makes you think of that person and just letting yourself grieve as hard as you can or, like, feel that sadness or maybe even, like, what you were talking about, like, feel that connection to that person. Right. Like, I would put on a song. So I was doing this before I saw the episode of Shrinking. That was what I would do. Like, I would listen to. My mom was like, a 90s country person, and I would listen to 90s country, and I would just, like, let myself cry, and I would just let myself feel her. And. And I have always been really intuitive, and because my brother and my sister, like, I haven't gotten, like, any signs from her, you know, And I was always the scapegoat. I'm like, oh, she's giving them, let me tell you. You know? But I also feel like in those moments where I would give myself that time, whether I was like, driving home from work, just like releasing that emotion and then also taking that time to like, connect with my mom and just saying like, I miss you, you know, and I believe that your physical presence isn't here anymore. But like, I know you hear that and I know you feel that, you know, and. And taking that time to like, connect with her, it's been really, really special and important.

A (38:03)

I know we're out of time for now, but I'm so grateful for you sharing that and normalizing the ways of noticing messages or connection or signs of, you know, whatever we want to call it. People have their own beliefs, but it helps me feel better to know that you have a similar experience with that. Yeah, Amber, I wish we had more time for now for. But for now we don't. But I wish we had more time so we could go more into this. But for now, tell people where they can find your program course.

B (38:41)

Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram at Integrative Trauma Therapist and then you can sign up for my parenting course or program@www.theintegrativetraumatherapist.com and I just want.

A (39:00)

To tell everyone who's listening that I looked at your website and there's so much good stuff. Stuff there too. So you don't even.

B (39:08)

Yeah. Lots you don't even know.

A (39:10)

Yeah.

B (39:11)

So yes.

A (39:13)

Amber, thank you so much for sharing and just your open heart. I really appreciate you. I appreciate what you're doing. It's really making a difference. So thank you very much.

B (39:23)

Thank you so much and thanks for talking with me and sharing some about some about your grief and your story.

A (39:29)

Thank you for wanting to know. Therapy Notes is the highest rated EHR practice management and billing software for mental health professionals. It's all in one platform, is designed to streamline all aspects of your practice from connecting with clients via secure messages to scheduling, notes, billing and more. You can trust TherapyNotes has you covered and one of the best parts 24. 7 customer service with a live person, it's beyond easy to get help over the phone or by email at any time of day from their knowledgeable and friendly representatives. The best time to give TherapyNotes a try is now. Sign up for your free trial by going to therapynotes.com and clicking start my free trial and accessing your first two months free with the promo code CHAT. See why TherapyNotes is the most trusted EHR for behavioral health professionals today.

B (40:14)

Thank you for listening to Therapy Chat with your host Laura Reagan, LCSWC.

A (40:21)

For more information, please visit therapychatpodcast.com.