Therapy Chat Podcast Episode 477

Trauma Sensitive Mindfulness with Dr. David Treleaven

Host: Laura Reagan, LCSW-C
Guest: Dr. David Treleaven
Original Air Date: April 10, 2025

Episode Overview

In this compelling conversation, Laura Reagan interviews Dr. David Treleaven, mindfulness practitioner, trauma therapist, and author of Trauma Sensitive Mindfulness. The episode explores the intersection of mindfulness and trauma, addressing both the healing potential and the risks of mindfulness practices for trauma survivors. Dr. Treleaven shares his personal and professional insights, offering practical advice for clinicians and mindfulness teachers on how to effectively and safely integrate mindfulness with trauma-informed care. The discussion also delves into systemic trauma, privilege, and the need for culturally and socially aware mindfulness practice.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Double-Edged Sword of Mindfulness and Trauma (04:59–10:35)

• Mindfulness as Both Help and Hindrance:

  • Mindfulness can be deeply beneficial for trauma survivors, but it can also inadvertently exacerbate symptoms if not handled with sensitivity.
  • Quote:
    “Mindfulness meditation can be both helpful for people who've experienced trauma. It can also hinder them. It can also be problematic.”
    — Dr. David Treleaven (05:23)

• Exposure to Secondary and Tertiary Trauma:

  • Dr. Treleaven explains how working with trauma survivors, particularly male sex offenders with high rates of personal trauma, led to his own secondary traumatic stress.
  • His experiences during meditation retreats illuminated how mindfulness, without trauma awareness, can trigger dissociation and intensify trauma symptoms.

• Personal Story:

  • During a meditation retreat, Dr. Treleaven experienced a “circuit breaker” moment—intense dissociation and worsening symptoms—which retreat facilitators, lacking trauma training, could not address effectively.
  • This personal crisis prompted his research and advocacy for trauma-sensitive mindfulness.

2. Why Mindfulness Can Trigger Trauma Responses (11:25–16:42, 30:02–36:03)

• The Mechanism:

  • Mindfulness encourages stillness and focused awareness, which for trauma survivors can unearth unresolved memories, sensations, or emotions.
  • Being asked to “sit with” overwhelming sensations without adequate resources or support can be destabilizing rather than healing.

• Attachment & Safety:

  • Lack of interpersonal support—especially in retreat environments—can mirror attachment wounds and make participants feel unseen or unsafe.
  • Quote:
    “If the teachers that we're counting on to help us stay safe in retreats aren't aware of what can happen... it can really do harm to a person.”
    — Laura Reagan (13:08)

• Overemphasis on Mindfulness as a Panacea:

  • The widespread belief that mindfulness is universally positive can overlook its risks for vulnerable individuals.
  • Quote:
    “I want to interrupt the idea that mindfulness is a panacea... Mindfulness reduces stress. We know that. What could go wrong?... For the majority of people, that will be hugely helpful. But there’s a select number who, when trauma is revealed, that’s going to overwhelm them.”
    — Dr. David Treleaven (15:17)

3. Trauma-Informed Practice: The Four Rs (17:27–20:02)

• National Center for Trauma Informed Care’s ‘Four Rs’:

  • Realize the widespread impact of trauma.
  • Recognize trauma symptoms.
  • Respond to them effectively.
  • Prevent retraumatization.

• Implications for Clinicians:

  • Trauma-informed care is not a quick checklist or fix.
  • Practitioners must understand both individual and systemic influences on trauma.

4. Systemic Trauma, Social Context, and Privilege (20:02–27:53)

• Trauma as Collective, Not Just Individual:

  • Trauma is deeply connected to systems of oppression, economic disparity, and social injustice.
  • Who experiences “accidents” or trauma is often socially determined, not random.
  • Quote:
    “Accidents are not happening in a vacuum... Who are the people that need to do potentially more dangerous work? Folks who are poor, working class…”
    — Dr. David Treleaven (21:31)

• Mindfulness Communities and Privilege:

  • Mindfulness spaces often lack diversity and can be alienating for people of color and others from marginalized groups; microaggressions and lack of safety inhibit healing.
  • Mindfulness practitioners with privilege bear responsibility for cultivating greater inclusivity and awareness.

• Using Mindfulness to Face Discomfort:

  • Dr. Treleaven challenges mindfulness practitioners to apply their skills not just to internal experiences but also to the discomfort of confronting privilege and social injustice.
  • Quote:
    “What would it be like for the mindfulness movement to really turn and face the places where we tend to get uncomfortable and not have conversations?”
    — Dr. David Treleaven (26:18)

5. Spiritual Bypassing & Dissociation (36:03–44:56)

• Spiritual Bypassing Explained:

  • Using spiritual practice to avoid necessary psychological or developmental work, such as confronting trauma or acknowledging privilege.

• Mindfulness and Dissociation:

  • Some meditators praised for their ability to “sit for hours” may be deeply dissociating—a trauma response rather than spiritual progress.
  • Quote:
    “They were getting a lot of props inside of a mindfulness community... because that's actually my safety strategy, a survival mechanism.”
    — Dr. David Treleaven (38:34)

• Positivity as Bypass:

  • Dismissing past trauma with “I’m not a victim, I’m staying positive” can prevent genuine healing and reinforce avoidance.
  • Quote:
    “It's not helpful to your healing process to pretend that you're not affected by something that is affecting you.”
    — Laura Reagan (41:22)

6. Practical Strategies for Trauma-Sensitive Mindfulness (46:41–51:18)

• Modifications and Concrete Tools:

  • Dr. Treleaven’s book details 36 specific modifications to make mindfulness safer for trauma survivors.
  • Example: Instead of instructing everyone to focus on the breath—which can be highly triggering for some—offer alternative anchors like body sensations or sounds.

• Invitation vs. Command:

  • Always invite, never command; frame mindfulness guidance as options, not directives.
  • Quote:
    “The importance of being an invitation into practice instead of a command... It's just a different tone.”
    — Dr. David Treleaven (49:20)

• Enhancing Sense of Agency:

  • Emphasize autonomy and choice for trauma survivors in all mindfulness and therapeutic settings.

• Further Principles:

  • Attend to the physical environment—seating, exit access, objects—in ways that increase felt safety.
  • Leverage relationship and attachment within mindfulness practice, not just solitary practice.

7. Resources and Further Learning (53:11–54:06)

• Dr. Treleaven’s Website and Book:
  • More about trauma-sensitive mindfulness, including practical resources and links to purchase the book: davidtreleaven.com
  • 60% of book proceeds are donated to:
    • Generative Somatics
    • Black Lives Matter Healing Justice Initiative
    • Sogorea Te Land Trust

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Personal Experience with Mindfulness and Trauma:
  “Something happened... it's almost like a circuit breaker went off in my body. For a couple days, I was really dissociated... and the basic instruction to pay attention to this different stimuli that was happening seemed to actually make things worse for me.”
  — Dr. David Treleaven (09:41–11:13)

• On Trauma as a Social Issue:
  “Trauma isn't this isolated thing happening in a bubble. It's a concept that really asks us all to be in reflection about the world and what's happening.”
  — Dr. David Treleaven (19:10)

• On Spiritual Bypass:
  “Sometimes we don't know what we don't know. So we're actually, like you said, kind of skipping an important step or task that needs to be touched on, to move through.”
  — Laura Reagan (41:04)

• On Safe Mindfulness Teaching:
  "We want to create an environment without going so far as to be so overly protective... but there's all these modifications we can bring in that I think are just practical and helpful for us to have in our toolkit."
  — Dr. David Treleaven (49:20)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Time | Segment / Topic | |-----------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 04:59 | Dr. Treleaven’s personal/professional journey into trauma-sensitive mindfulness | | 11:25 | How mindfulness can both help and trigger trauma responsivity | | 17:27 | Introduction to the Four Rs of trauma-informed practice | | 20:02 | Systemic context: Trauma beyond the individual | | 30:02 | Why mindfulness can trigger trauma responses – retreat and isolation issues | | 36:03 | Spiritual bypassing and dissociation within mindfulness culture | | 46:41 | Concrete strategies for trauma-sensitive mindfulness | | 53:11 | Resource sharing, book proceeds, and closing info |

Closing Thoughts

This episode brings a nuanced, compassionate, and deeply practical conversation on how mindfulness practices intersect with trauma healing and the dangers of oversimplifying mindfulness as inherently safe. Dr. Treleaven and Laura Reagan both advocate for trauma-informed, socially-conscious, and invitational approaches—emphasizing the need for the mindfulness movement and mental health professionals alike to embody greater awareness, humility, and inclusivity.

Learn More:

• Dr. David Treleaven: davidtreleaven.com
• Trauma Sensitive Mindfulness (book): Available via independent and large bookstores
• Beneficiary organizations: Generative Somatics, Black Lives Matter Healing Justice, Sogorea Te Land Trust