Therapy Chat Podcast, Episode 479

"Yoga Therapy + Clinical Practice with Nityda Gessel"

Host: Laura Reagan, LCSW-C
Guest: Nityda Gessel, LCSW, C-IAYT, Creator of the Trauma Conscious Yoga Method
Date: April 21, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Laura Reagan returns to a crucial conversation with Nityda Gessel, a psychotherapist, yoga teacher, and creator of the Trauma Conscious Yoga Method. They explore the intersections between trauma-informed yoga, yoga therapy, and clinical psychotherapy practices. A central theme is understanding trauma, its profound impact, and the responsibilities practitioners hold to ensure safety, prevent retraumatization, and work within their professional scope. They discuss the complexity of trauma, how it presents, and offer practical insights for therapists, yoga teachers, and all healing professionals.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining the Scope of Practice

• Nityda’s Background ([05:01])

  • Nityda practiced yoga and therapy in NYC before moving to Austin, where she runs Mind Body Psychotherapy.
  • Developed the Trauma Conscious Yoga Method: a 25-hour clinical trauma-informed yoga teacher training integrating somatic psychotherapy principles (EMDR, IFS, Somatic Experiencing).
  • Trains a diverse group: mental health clinicians, yoga teachers, health coaches, and body workers.
  • Believes yoga and therapy are complementary, not replacements for each other.

• Laura’s Reflection ([07:17])

  • Points out the confusion even among professionals about what therapy, coaching, and different healing modalities entail.

2. Trauma-Informed Care:

• The Four R’s of Trauma-Informed Care (per National Center for Trauma Informed Care) ([08:00])

  1. Realize the widespread impact of trauma and understand paths for recovery.
  2. Recognize the signs and symptoms of trauma in clients, staff, and others.
  3. Respond by integrating knowledge about trauma into policies, procedures, and practices.
  4. Resist retraumatization.

Detailed Discussion on "Resist Retraumatization" ([10:12])

• Laura:
  "It's so crucial. And this is something I think whether you are a person who has experienced trauma ... we all need to understand this about re-traumatization because this is the part that I think is the hardest to see and notice." ([10:28])

• Nityda:
  "We could probably talk about this point alone for three hours." ([10:56])

3. Understanding Trauma: Big T and Little t

• Nityda’s Explanation ([13:55])

  • Big T: War, natural disasters, rape, physical abuse, accidents—typically recognized as traumatic.
  • Little t: Ongoing, often overlooked experiences—discrimination, emotional neglect, growing up with a depressed or alcoholic parent, childhood invalidation.
  • "Emotional neglect has an incredible, incredible impact... little T traumas... impact one's nervous system the same way as the big T traumas." ([16:06])

• Shame and Lack of Recognition

  • Many clients don’t realize their experience is trauma, especially regarding consent, sexual assault, or childhood neglect.
  • "Information and education is so important and is another big part of trauma informed care. We cannot inform people enough." ([21:01])

4. Preventing Retraumatization in Practice

Vulnerability & Boundaries ([23:55])

• Nityda:
  Describes managing vulnerability: "Laura, you and I have the luxury of choosing when we want to get vulnerable and how... Trauma survivors, acute trauma... are getting vulnerable outside of their volition." ([24:30])

• Yoga Teachers and Trauma Narratives ([25:59])

  • Students may divulge trauma stories in class due to activated vulnerability.

  • "But to try to offer counseling to a person right then and there on the spot would be a very possible way to ... support someone's retraumatization." ([28:39])

  • Yoga teachers should know local trauma therapists and be ready to refer.

  • Skill Highlighted:
    Spotting dissociation and gently interrupting, creating safety, and helping students contain emotion without invalidation.

• Laura on Clinical Containment:

  • Trauma therapists structure sharing, avoid inviting full reliving, build skills like containment and grounding before any narrative work.
  • "We're never... inviting people to relive it. We might be allowing pieces... to come into the present moment and always have that knowledge that we're in the present ..." ([32:12])

5. Recognizing Trauma Activation

• Urgency to “do the trauma work” often signals activation, not readiness.
  "I've heard trauma survivors describe this sense of urgency to 'let's do the trauma work'... it feels like having your pedal to the floor in your car... out of control, gotta go..." ([35:17])

• Nityda:
  "That parallels the traumatic experience wholeheartedly... you go from fight or flight, and then most trauma occurs ... in immobilization." ([36:13])

6. Practitioner Responsibilities: Do Your Own Work

• Nityda Advice:
  "I don't think anybody should be working with trauma survivors who hasn't done their own work. And I mean, trauma work ... because we've all been traumatized to some degree." ([37:43])

• Laura Adds:
  "Do your own work and continue doing your own work... it's not just like, yeah, get that taken care of and get that out of the way." ([40:04])

• Dangers of “guru” status and power differentials are highlighted; true trauma-informed care is ongoing, self-reflective for practitioners.

7. Trauma-Informed Principles for All

• Laura quickly reviews the Six Principles of Trauma-Informed Care (SAMHSA) ([41:52]):

  1. Safety
  2. Trustworthiness and transparency
  3. Peer support and mutual self-help
  4. Collaboration and mutuality
  5. Empowerment, voice, and choice
  6. Cultural, historical, and gender issues

• “Everybody benefits from being trauma informed, no matter what field you’re in, just as a human being.” ([42:49])

8. Limitations of Diagnostic Criteria

• Nityda and Laura discuss how statistics for PTSD are misleading because many suffering trauma don’t fit the narrow, time-based criteria but are “suffering all the same.” ([44:06])

• "Who cares if it's a two or a four or whatever? ... Any flashback at all being drawn out of one's present moment experience is not something anybody wants for their life." ([45:02])

Notable Quotes & Moments

• "They're not replacements for one another [yoga & therapy], but they are a beautiful balance to one another in helping support someone's healing and growth."
  —Nityda Gessel ([06:35])

• "The last part is ... the hardest to see and notice."
  —Laura Reagan, referring to the risk of retraumatization ([10:28])

• "If you decide that it was rape or sexual assault, then you admit that it happened. So ... there's a protective function of keeping you unaware, but then it's still affecting you."
  —Laura Reagan ([20:48])

• "If you think it couldn't happen to you ... that's when you're at the highest risk to do it because then you don't think you need to do the work."
  —Nityda Gessel ([41:12])

• "Everybody benefits from being trauma informed, no matter what field you're in, just as a human being. Because we've all experienced trauma to some degree..."
  —Nityda Gessel ([42:49])

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |-----------------------------|------------| | Introduction and confusion about modalities | 01:23–03:11 | | Nityda’s background & Trauma Conscious Yoga Method | 05:01–07:17 | | Four R’s of Trauma-Informed Care | 08:00–10:12 | | Importance of not re-traumatizing | 10:12–11:04 | | Defining trauma: big T / little t | 13:55–17:45 | | Issues of consent and sexual trauma | 20:17–21:01 | | How yoga can activate trauma and teacher responsibilities| 25:59–31:06| | Containing trauma narrative and clinical safety | 32:12–34:45 | | Urgency to do trauma work as a symptom of activation| 35:17–37:13 | | Practitioner’s ongoing self-work | 37:43–41:34 | | Review of SAMHSA’s Six Principles | 41:52–42:40 | | Limits of PTSD criteria/statistics | 44:06–45:25 | | Closing remarks and where to find Nityda | 46:08–46:24 |

Resources & Further Information

• Trauma Conscious Yoga Method: traumaconsciousyoga.com
• SAMHSA’s Trauma-Informed Care Principles: samhsa.gov

Summary & Takeaway

This episode offers an in-depth, accessible exploration of trauma-informed care at the intersection of psychotherapy and yoga practice. Both Laura and Nityda stress the importance of understanding trauma’s complexity, the need for practitioner self-awareness and continuous self-work, and the ethical imperative to prevent retraumatization. Yoga, when approached from an informed, ethical, and collaborative stance, can be a powerful adjunct to therapy, but always within the limits of professional boundaries and responsibilities. The overarching message: Everyone, in every field, benefits from adopting a trauma-informed lens.

For more from Nityda Gessel: Visit traumaconsciousyoga.com
For more Therapy Chat episodes: therapychatpodcast.com