Therapy Chat – Episode 500: Behind The Scenes Of My Shame Storm – During An Interview About Shame

Date: October 6, 2025
Host: Laura Reagan, LCSW-C

Episode Overview

To mark the 500th episode, Laura Reagan takes listeners behind the scenes of one of her most personally challenging and enlightening moments as a therapist and podcast host. Instead of the typical interview, she shares a vulnerable account of experiencing a "shame storm" in real time, triggered by crisis news during a high-pressure interview with trauma therapy legend Dr. Janina Fisher. With radical transparency, Laura explores her internal process, trauma responses, and the radical healing available through receiving support—from both colleagues and friends—in the depth of struggle. This candid episode offers a deeply human look at the lived experiences of therapists and the transformative power of connection amidst pain.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

Setting the Scene: A Milestone and a Crisis

• Laura explains her intention to do something different for this major episode. Instead of a new interview, she’s sharing the hidden turmoil she faced during her live interview with Janina Fisher at the 2024 Psychotherapy Networker Symposium.
• Right before going on stage, Laura learned a close family member was on life support—a trigger for a significant trauma response (03:41).

  "30 minutes before my in person interview with Janina Fisher, I had received news that a close family member was on life support in New York following a major health crisis." (06:00)

Navigating Internal Chaos while Performing

• Laura describes the dissociative state she entered: feeling nothing emotionally, but numbly determined to fulfill her commitment to the interviews.

  "The first sign of my trauma response was I didn't really feel any emotion, but I had a desire to push through with the interviews I had scheduled." (06:21)

• She details the intense internal struggle: younger, wounded parts were collapsing, while "manager" parts pushed her to perform and "not fall apart right now."
• The interview with Janina Fisher was especially high-stakes: Janina had just received a lifetime achievement award and is deeply respected by Laura, adding to her anxiety and shame pressure.

External Technical Failures Mirroring Internal State

• As the interview began, technical problems arose: microphones failed completely, amplifying Laura’s feelings of shame and incompetence.

  "While I pretended to be calm, internally, I was panicking and young parts of me were running around going, oh no, we're doomed. Part of me was freezing up." (08:39)

• Laura recounts the challenge of asking for help, a growth edge for her, as Jerry (a new acquaintance) stepped in to fix the mics, providing not just practical help but co-regulation—a reminder of the power of connection and support.

  "It was a growth edge for me, being unable to solve a problem on my own and being forced to ask for help in the moment while I was crumbling inside." (09:10)

Irony and Parallel Themes: Interviewing on Shame While in Shame

• The episode highlights the meta-experience of discussing shame with Dr. Fisher while suffused with shame herself.

  "Part of me felt like a total fraud asking Janina Fisher about shame when I was so filled with shame at the time, it was all I could think about. It was excruciating." (09:48)

• After only 20 minutes, the mics fail again and the interview must end. Janina’s lightness and acceptance contrasts Laura’s sense of collapse.

  "Janina brightly said, well, I guess we're finished. Making me laugh with her attitude of acceptance in contrast to my trying to force something to happen when all indications were it was over." (10:29)

Memorable Insight: Trauma and the Role of Shame

• A key therapeutic pearl from Janina Fisher:

  "Shame helped you survive. Shame allowed you to submit." (11:13)

• Laura reflects on the parallel of resisting emotional submission to her trauma state in that moment—recognizing the link between survival, shame, and the impulse to mask vulnerability.

Allowing Support and the Corrective Experience

• After the interview, Laura’s colleagues and friends gather to support her, including Jen, Linda Tai, Ann Kelly, Sue Marriott, among others.
  • Linda offers somatic presence, permission for release, and physical grounding (lying on the floor, gentle pressure).
  • Laura’s internal parts conflict between gratitude for support and shame about "taking up too much time."

  "Linda assured me she would stay as long as it took. I felt like a burden. It was taking too long, and I didn't want to feel all of this." (14:19)

• Laura is moved by the reciprocation and depth of care from her community—a stark contrast to patterns of emotional self-reliance rooted in childhood neglect.

  "Being with a trusted friend who understood and did not believe that I was too much or a burden or that the way I felt wasn't right was just the medicine I needed in that moment." (15:25)

• She recognizes the healing power inherent in being regulated and held by other therapists, linking these moments to polyvagal theory and co-regulation.

Debrief and Aftermath: Prioritizing Connection Over Performance

• Laura’s husband encourages her to receive support and not to rush to New York until arrangements are settled, modeling a healthy prioritization of needs and partnership.
• After canceling remaining interviews, Laura spends time in the company of supportive peers—experiencing renewed regulation and the tangible difference that collective care makes.

  "...that nervous system to nervous system experience was so helpful to bringing my system back into a more regulated state." (22:38)

• She reflects that, ironically, a psychotherapy conference filled with warm, skilled therapists is a "better" place than most to fall apart.

Integration: Insights on Shame, Help-Seeking, and Community

• Laura examines her old blueprints—internalized beliefs about not being able to rely on others—and how new, corrective experiences can rewire the nervous system’s expectations.

  "When, like me, our early blueprint says it's not safe to count on others to support us. Asking for help can be excruciating. But this can hurt us. We often wait till the situation has snowballed quite a bit before we reach out." (26:13)

• She draws broader lessons about therapist vulnerability, the universal need for support, and the absolutely central role of authentic, reciprocal connection for healing.
• The episode closes with deep gratitude for the Therapy Chat community and an intention to foster more embodied, communal presence in coming episodes.

  "Be human. Find ways to fully express who you are so that you can show up as authentically as possible and give other people permission to do the same through your presence." (33:18)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the immediate trauma response:

  "I didn't really feel any emotion, but I had a desire to push through with the interviews I had scheduled." — Laura Reagan (06:21)

• On shame and survival:

  "Shame helped you survive. Shame allowed you to submit." — Dr. Janina Fisher, quoted by Laura Reagan (11:13)

• On being witnessed in vulnerability:

  "Parts of me can feel ashamed being witnessed in my most vulnerable moments." — Laura Reagan (09:20)

• On allowing help:

  "It was a growth edge for me, being unable to solve a problem on my own and being forced to ask for help in the moment while I was crumbling inside." — Laura Reagan (09:10)

• On the corrective experience of support:

  "It was so amazing to be met with tenderness when my system expected to be rejected and abandoned. It was weird and somewhat disorienting, but parts of me drank it up like a hummingbird sips nectar." — Laura Reagan (32:25)

• On healing and connection:

  "Most therapists know...the real healing happens from the quality of the relationship. Of course, as humans, we're wired for connection. It's in our biology. And when things fall apart, we need the support of others." — Laura Reagan (25:53)

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 01:54 | Laura introduces the episode’s unique behind-the-scenes focus and its connection to shame, trauma, parts | | 06:00 | Laura learns life-changing news before her high-pressure interview | | 08:39 | Technical failures occur during the interview as Laura’s internal distress peaks | | 09:10 | Jerry steps in to help, and Laura recognizes the difficulty of asking for support | | 09:48 | Laura internally struggles with feeling like a “fraud” at the center of a shame conversation | | 10:29 | The second mic failure ends the interview, with Janina’s acceptance contrasting Laura’s self-judgment | | 11:13 | The central therapeutic insight: shame as an adaptive survival strategy | | 14:19 | Receiving support from Linda Tai and Jen—allowing for somatic and emotional release | | 15:25 | Laura reflects on the power of being nurtured and witnessed while intensely vulnerable | | 22:38 | The impact of co-regulation and “nervous system to nervous system” support | | 25:53 | Laura discusses the essential importance of relationship in therapy and life | | 26:13 | Insight into childhood blueprints and the pain of help-seeking | | 32:25 | Laura describes the transformative effect of correction emotional experiences | | 33:18 | Final message: embracing true humanity, connection, and community |

Key Takeaways & Reflections

• Even therapists experience deep vulnerability and trauma responses—it’s normal and nothing to be ashamed of.
• Shame is a survival strategy: As Janina Fisher says, it helped many survive overwhelming circumstances by enforcing submission and self-protection.
• Co-regulation and support from others is essential for healing—being cared for, witnessed, and gently held in moments of overwhelm can rewrite old relational blueprints.
• *Therapists are not superhuman; the need for support does not vanish with professional expertise.
• True healing and resilience grow from reciprocal, authentic relationships—both personally and professionally.
• Embodying authenticity and asking for help are courageous acts that benefit not just oneself but the whole community.

Closing

Laura expresses gratitude for the Therapy Chat community and sets an intention for the next 500 episodes: deepening connection, supporting therapists and non-therapists alike, and continuing to model vulnerability, authenticity, and embodiment.

Listen to the full episode for the complete, heartfelt narrative and more therapist-to-therapist wisdom.